How Dumb Are The Black Knights? | Code Geass - Betrayal
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- There's been a lot of buzz online about the coup d'etat of the Black Knights lately. Today we explore the age-old question raised by the title. Is it wise for the Black Knights to abandon the leader who has lifted them up from subjugation? Should Lelouch have realized the Black Knights no longer needed his strength? Let us know in the comments below!
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The biggest irony of this is that it ultimately leads to Brittania losing its freedom through mass use of geass. Thanks Schniezel.
Not to mention that Schniezel himself “made the people of pendragon disappear”. Schniezel himself never cared for the right thing, he merely sought out the best tactical and strategic advantages every step of the way, such as with the FLEIA and the destruction of the Black Knights command structure. Lelouch killed a lot of people but he always cared about the sacrifices he made, and he found his resolution to make those sacrifices worthwhile as peace dawned on humankind.
@NotVanquish :) funny part is schizel litrally ended the royal family prtty much, besides lelouch,himself,nanaully and 2 other princess (both shown in different spin offs) survived and 1 died soon with lelouch so from having like 100 members the Britannia royal family has like 4 members now
Well, only the elite nobles held the most freedom, and Lelouch mostly eliminated the entire line to the throne through his geasse
@@kwisatzhaderach9591 In an ironic sense, I think the ones he geass'ed and turned into his faceless mooks were the ones he specifically knew were part of the problem, and so by tying them to his regime, he ensured they'd go down to when his reign came crashing down as planned.
He made sure anyone he wanted to survive was labeled as against him, so when he went down, they'd be freed and wouldn't get taken down with him.
@@benjaminbierley2074 Yeah I do have a felaing most of his Geassed troops were the worst of Brittania's warcriminals and regular murderers.
The worst part of it was that NONE of the people who turned against Lelouch were geassed. The only one who was geassed, Kallen, stood by his side.
Not even in any meaningful way tho, was simply to ask her something that was obvious and he learned later anyways
@@mustardsouls1005 Yes, but that wouldn't be relevant info to the argument so it would be omitted, neither would they readily know such a detail anyway even if they could prove or at least give suspicion to her being Geassed.
@scottjs5207 but she wasn't geassed in any way that would affect her loyalty is what I mean
Once the geass is used we always see the neurons of the brains of geassed people change permanently, if the task they are given is completed the geass ends and those people become immune to geass again. We even saw lelouch trying with all his might to force geass on Shirley in her last moments, however she was immune, despite seeing the ring of geass on her eyes, though the damage to her body was too much for her to heal on her own geass or not.
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It’s fine if they were skeptical of Zero, but the fact that they just trusted their arch enemy so easily is what pisses me off.
Not even just trusting but siding with him and eventually becoming his pawns (that what they fear Zero would use them as) it's whats get me mad about the whole conflict
@@-Garaf- well that’s not completely true because as seen with before the emperor arc the black knights were independent… relatively and only decided to follow his lead because… they knew they couldn’t beat lelouch in strategy(which point taken)
I think trusted is wrong and it’s important to note that although they were extremely shaken they decided the best course of action was to question zero himself of these claims… just too bad when they did that lelouch was feeling really suicidal
In Trilogy movie, that are Actually skeptical on Schneizel and during stand off on Lelouch, they quickly realize Lelouch are actually saving them by acting as scapegoat and Black Knight actually BEG Lelouch to actually defend himself. That where Schneizel act quickly by shooting at Lelouch first.
@@charlestonho6733 Yeah that was a neat extra that the movie trilogy brought
I vote to hereon refer to the Euphemia Incident as: The Eu-Fiasco
I love it and we will be using it
*claps like Shia Labeouf*
@@KatoBeyond 7:24 is that a fire alarm?
Idk I like the euphemincident more
Euphemia's Gamer Moment.
“His geass can be affecting even me now.”
This line by Schneizel is why the BKs are idiots. Todoh later comes to the conclusion that Lelouch’s forces are under complete control, and yet still think Lelouch might’ve used his geass on them. Absolutely no critical thinking at all lmao
To beat a tactician, you have to be a tactician. Schnizel struck at the right time when Lelouch was at his lowest and because the the Black Knights aren't very smart, this was an extremely easy task for Schnizel to carry out
@@JaredGonzales-gv9yh Schneizel is supposed to be smart, so it’s of course no surprise that he can manipulate them.
It’s just the people in question are comically stupid and I doubt it’s intentional.
It's Magic(k) tm, if you'd lived your whole life in a rational world, and suddenly your ENEMY told you your leader had magical powers... I dunno, I feel like it'd be easier to assume THAT was a lie and that magic doesn't exist, let alone believing your faithful leader, who's been in the trenches with you, is somehow mind controlling you...
That they believe in the rules and limitations, too, is a bit of a reach. Believe in magic, sure, okay... but then to also believe it has rules and limits? I dunno, it's pretty goofy.
This is the main flaw of Code Geass... All the characters are idiots, except the MC and a few main villains . Nobody else is trying to rub two braincells together.
@@subratanandy2142 The only one that can be excused for being an idiot in Code Geass in my opinion is Suzaku. Because he weighs up his idiocy and hypocrisy with the fact that he's one of the best pilots/fighters in the series. Arguably THE best fighter/pilot.
Just a quick note: Kirihara once hinted to Ohgi, Kallen, and Tamaki how they should trust Zero and why his face should remain hidden (because he was not Japanese).
Kirihara could have been Geassed for all they know.
@@KatoBeyond Britannian intelligence was wrong that Katase was under Geass, although the manga presented a scenario where that happens sans the Battle of Narita.
@@KatoBeyond As far as the Black Knights were concerned, knowledge on how Geass works was probably limited to Kallen, who was aware of it by the start of R2, and perhaps Urabe, who was the only one of the Four Holy Swords to know about Zero's true identity for some reason. Since Kallen was with Ohgi and Tamaki during the Kirihara meeting, she might have known the limitations of his Geass should have kept the veiled Kirihara from falling under it, but since she had become a lone voice in the sea of negativity against Zero, they probably only noted from Kallen how Geass works, and nothing much else. Sumeragi was seen in the UFN meeting covering her eyes after their Geass countermeasures failed, which implies the core leadership of the Black Knights already knew how it works, and Schneizel probably did, too, this time from Suzaku most likely - if only because the Emperor always kept him in the dark about it with words like "mundane" - as may be implied by the final moments at the Damocles. One more thing, Kirihara was not presented by Schneizel to be under Geass, but only insinuated that anyone could have been under it without their knowing. Since Kirihara was already dead by R2, he could not have been able to confirm nor deny this. Only Sumeragi and Suzaku might have known the Kirihara connection should have made the use of Geass unnecessary, but Sumeragi probably failed to catch this possibility.
@@alraposas3785 To be fair with Katase though, they did say these were suspected people not all of them confirmed, and everyone thought it was weird that he went the suicide route. So they are assuming Zero Geassed him to do it, rather than him just murdering him.
@@KatoBeyond It still probably should've been something brought up, however, as it should've been the best point they had to brush off any issue regarding his identity. That being said, it's probably necessary for the plot that it wasn't, as while a response could be that Kirihara was geassed, *Tohdoh* would've been able to put two and two together that Kirihara would've been able to believe in Lelouch's goal without the need for Geass.
Honestly I wanted to smack the sh*t out of Ohgi when they betrayed Lelouch.
Did they really think Schneizel would honor his words?
same here omg! I was thinking how freaking blind and simple he is. Just cus his partner gave her 2 cents, and the OPPONENT said some things that sounds legit, he ought to at least know his own members, those that were in the resistance BEFORE zero appeared? He knew them prior so im sure if they feel different, he would have felt it? Plus they were figthing britannia BEFORE zero popped up so what the hell does he meant by zero lying to them lol. They don't even know what those on the papers were geassed for! What if its just "can u help me get a glass of water?" lmao.
Thankfully in the resurrection he offered up his life as repentance once so i let this part slide from then on. If not he would really be one of the characters that irritates me in the show.
Lelouch: Ohgi, Ohgi, Ohgi, you're forgetting one very important thing!
Ohgi: And what's that?
Lelouch: I dunno but you're forgetting it.
better yet is that Schneizel promise to free Japan and yet it should be a common sense that the prime minister may declare non aggressive pacts, peace and war on the Emperor's behalf, but it won't change the fact that only the Emperor has the "power" to free a conquered country never mind the fact that Charles most likely wouldn't approved the freedom of Japan in the first place regardless of how it would have split Lelouch and the black knights apart and greatly weakened them in the process and made them easy for the picking and reconquer Japan without fanfare!!
Lelouch honestly should have slaughtered those traitors
@@georgeprchal3924 Lelouch: I used Geass on your girlfriend to take her Knightmare while she was massacreing innocent people.
Oghi is a massive Simp. The dude betrayed the black knights for Viletta and all of us know it.
Another point is that the Black Knights did not even think that if they are under geass why would they be able to disobey or betray him
They really betrayed the man that did more in a month then the whole Japanese military and Tohdoh ever managed to do in 8 years. And Ohgi falls for mediocre 🍑 who manipulates a teenage girl to go into a war zone and spies on teenagers with a child slave soldier.
There is no world in which Villetta could be described as "mediocre".
@@DrDoompenguin you mean the world of anime? Everything about her personality and goals shows she’s a crappy person and her character arc is mediocre with the only attractive thing about her being her body. And in the world of anime even that is mediocre.
@@Warlock_Lelouch Her personality isn't great but you said "mediocre 🍑" which is objectively false.
@@DrDoompenguin nah your just basic AF
Viletta: Mediocre? That's just mean.
It was really dumb considering they distrusted Lelouch because although he led them to countless victories, he was a prince of Britannia and yet they trusted Schneizel who was also a prince of Britannia that did nothing for them at that point.
In Trilogy movie, that are Actually skeptical on Schneizel and during stand off on Lelouch, they quickly realize Lelouch are actually saving them by acting as scapegoat and Black Knight actually BEG Lelouch to actually defend himself. That where Schneizel act quickly by shooting at Lelouch first.
Well he did organized the marriage that would have seen them destroyed, so maybe they LIKE people who mistreat them.
@@charlestonho6733 The movies really did tidy things up
Well it was dumb because the writer make them look dumb. What other reason can make the black knights betray lelouch other than they being dumb???
To be fair, Ohgi did demand that Schneizel return Japan to them as the price for betraying Zero. At the end of the day, the goal of the Black Knights' members is to reclaim Japan, not exactly loyalty (or I guess lack thereof) to Zero. Zero just happened to be their best shot at it, hence why they followed him up to this point.
After losing their trust in Zero, the next best way to accomplish their goal of liberating Japan is to get a prince of Britannia (and I guess Cornelia as a princess too) to officially return Japan to them. I wouldn't say it's so much they _trusted_ Schneizel as a person over Zero, but he did have the authority and power to give them what they want. And it seemed like Schneizel did hold up his end of the bargain to some degree since in the next episode he signed a ceasefire treaty with the Black Knights, and had already started talks with them and Kaguya (likely to discuss the terms of "returning" Japan to them).
I don't know what the Black Knights would've done if Schneizel didn't agree to the condition Ohgi set, though; would they still have confronted Zero even without Schneizel and continue their rebellion without him? Would they continue to follow Zero until they possibly beat Britannia, then just betray him once they're done?
I like how Tamaki seems like he is that idiot in group but when shit hits fan and everyone is beliving that Zero betrayed them he is the only one that thinks cleary and wants clear evidence instead of being like "yeah that's true".
nah he just didn't wanted to blieve schneizel not that he trusted zero. he could have said we got results and getting geassed or not doesn't matter if it will free the japan. their first motive was freeing japan and they forgot that at that part and blieved enemy prime minister lol
Tamaki is a literal contrarian, and the only reason he doesn't go along is because he NEVER goes along without talking mad shit first.
Small correction but at 5:52 that guy isn’t a teacher at the school, it’s the guy at the mall that lelouch geasses in R2 episode 3 to push the alarm to make a scene.
Oh wow, great catch
Although it sucks how quickly the Black Knights turn on Lelouch, no onr can say it wasn't bound to happen eventually. To anyone learning for the first time of Lelouch's actions behind the scenes in the series would look pretty inhumane and his Geass would be an automatic red flag to question your allegiance. Even Kallen felt distrustful of Lelouch after learning the first time and needed a year in story to think on it and still want to bet on him as their best chance at the time. In the end Schniezal just came at the right time to disrupt everything and force everyone to make a decision at that exact moment of confusion, emotions were high for everyone.
I've never disliked them betraying Zero, and Schniezel played it perfectly, notice that people like Kaguya and Xing-ke aren't there for instance.
My issue is that they have no proof at all. Like what if Schniezel had a video of when Rolo and Lelouch faced off. Talking about Rolo making him miss time. Both have glowing eyes. And so on. Actually hard to fake proof.
In Trilogy movie, that are Actually skeptical on Schneizel and during stand off on Lelouch, they quickly realize Lelouch are actually saving them by acting as scapegoat and Black Knight actually BEG Lelouch to actually defend himself. That where Schneizel act quickly by shooting at Lelouch first.
@@charlestonho6733 Ignoring that that's different continuity in multiple ways, they still let Schniezel into the room, they didn't have to. So, it's still them being traitorous.
@@nahte123456
More than that, nobdy of them even thought. "We remove/kill him, then what?" Those idiots failed to relise they were pawns not players, one way or another. After they betrayed Lelouch they joined Snitchel... They literaly joined another prince of brittania who will use them even worse than Zero did.
Hell even before all that they were the ones who wanted him back because they had no hope of wining instead of confronting him they betrayed him and doomed themselves in a fate worse than death. Patriots and revolutionaries that failed to free their country and it was instead freed by the person they betrayed.
If i was ordered too kill a bunch of children i my loyalty would be weaken ... I hope so
The real joke is that the Black Knights thought they would be able to hold japan against the inevitable Britannia retaking for a single day without Zero.
The unnamed arms dealer was the one who created Zero's mask. He likely noticed the discrepency in his designs and that there was slightly less materials than expected which he would report. It is also possible that his coworkers reported this after Zero's emergence.
Lelouch's teacher is a bit hard to explain but my guess is that he talked about the suspicious circumstances unknowingly. Lelouch used it to find out what would be covered on the test. As far as the teacher knows, he told Lelouch nothing but supposedly Lelouch got 100% on the test anyways. He probably mentioned it in passing to the other teachers how weird that was. Villetta waa investigating Ashford and Lelouch specifically so it is likely she heard this strange account.
I mostly agree with what you said in the video but another factor I would like to add is the context around the meeting. The FLEIJA had just dropped, wiping out the Tokyo settlement which from what we have seen seems to be the most densely populated part of area 11. This is obviously a devasting loss to the Black Knights which would leave them looking for guidance. Zero was giving strange and dangerous orders during the battle and then locked himself in his room, refusing communication right after. This left the BKs disorientated like a headless chicken. Along comes Schneizel and gives them answers, communicates, and even makes a deal that would benefit them. A big part of his point was that Zero knew about the FLEIJA and chose to attack Suzaku regardless. He ignored better judgement and gave into his rage. He never warned the Black Knights about it. When the Tokyo settlement was destroyed, he was more concerned with the welfare of the viceroy than the millions that had just died. This is a big part of why the Black Knights joined Schneizel as quickly as they did. There were only two possible culprits, Zero and Schneizel. Only one of those was open about the situation. Though they likely regretted their actions after the fact, the Black Knights locked themselves into joining Schneizel through their own emotions and couldn't take it back. Schneizel also had a FLEIJA warhead on his plane so while it was unlikely that he wouod use it, that was still a bargaining chip in his hand.
Good comment, good comment. That is important context. I agree with your guess about the teacher, but still it's a little weird. Maybe if he was specifically asked "Did Lelouch ever talk to you outside of class?" then his answer would give something away. I am also tempted to say that this moment is probably when Lelouch realized Schneizel was willing to FLEIJA them both. Knowledge which came in handy later. But unfortunately, we don't know if Lelouch ever found out that Schneizel came equipped with the FLEIJA on that occasion.
@@KatoBeyond This might not be the best explanation as Lelouch was already at the top of his class in terms of scores, but perhaps Lelouch scored particularly well on that test, combined with some knowledge that Lelouch had asked about that test that may have stuck in the teacher's head as odd. Schneizel probably interviewed everyone who attended that school in detail to try to work out exactly how Lelouch went about testing his power to try and work backwards to figure out all the rules and limits of it. If you're dealing with an unknown power and have the intelligence and resources of a person like Schneizel, I could see him trying to figure out every single detail possibly even tangentially related.
Mask? I was just headed to the comment section to mention that he supplied the giant rich person vehicle that became the black knights first base. Lelouch told them "I borrowed it from a rather liberty nobleman who indulges my requests" Although I suppose it's also possible on the mask, as that vehicle also contained the black knight uniforms. I imagine that guy did a lot for Lelouch over the course of the series.
@@ThePurpleKnightmare He didn't get the vehicle from that guy, that guy is neither a nobleman nor rich. Plus he had already used Geass on the arms dealer for the mask, he couldn't have used it a second time, and it's very clear he used Geass to get it.
i have to refute that zero didnt believe kurrugi on the fleija warhead he even says so he dosnt trust liars who sell out their frends and he hung up the call the warhead was a suprise to lelouch as much as it was to any one else
The Japanese resistance's main benefactor, an old man who is the primary owner of all the Sakuradite mines in existence, is the sole and primary reason that the Black Knights implicitly trusted Zero in s1.
He explicitly told them that Zero is a man to be trusted and that he hates the royal family of Britannia more than anyone else; he was the one person who could make such an endorsement, knowing the truth about Lelouche's identity and his past with Suzaku.
And the story (and fan base apparently) completely forgot about him.
This is were the argument falls apart: these revalations have the opposite effect. The fact that Zero has mind controll only makes it more important too keep him on their side, because otherwise they would begin to loose valuable members and never be able to get the same types of victories. Essentially, the implication is that the Black Knight are carried by magical powers, and that they would loose all ability to act or negotiate after betraying Zero.
Another reason to bring Shirley's file is that Kalen has just recently rejoined the Black Knights. Schniezel might not know exactly how loyal she is or how many of Lelouch's secrets he knew, so it would help to bring along ammo for something personal to Kalen. Same goes for the school teacher. These aren't just "people Lelouch used geass on" because that list is incredibly wide. They're cherrypicking targets who would upset any Black Knights representatives who might show up to the meeting. The eunich is for Xin-Qe. Jereniah is for Vidalia. Etc.
Kallen: I see, so I don't Merritt a file? My dad's a Duke or Earl or something, I demand to see your manager!
@@georgeprchal3924 I’m sorry but her being geass didn’t get known by anything like there was no file for Cornelia who was geassed justed to answer questions truthfully
I agree with what you said but still, I wouldn't trust my enemy before speaking to my ally. And I think that them questioning their action because of the geass it's pretty hypocritical because they were already fighting Britannia before Zero arrived! What I liked is the contrast of Lelouch taking responsibility even for his mistake against them blaming Zero for their choices!
Yes, but the fact that Zero didn't tell them not too much about him is already a suspicious move, and even worst, if he is a prince of the enemy they were fighting, i think it's easylie to assume that this wasn't about freedom but a war for the crown...
-Led them to victories multiple times
-saves Kallen's resistance cell from being massacred and helps turn the battle in their favor, and is able to force Prince Clovis to order a ceasefire in order to save the Japanese in the Shinjuku ghetto
-He inspires the Black Knights to fight honorably and not target civilians. In their public debut, he leads them in saving the victims of a hotel hijacking as a show of good will to the public.
-Kirihara called him a true enemy of Britannia
-He saves Tohdoh, a leader of the JLF, from execution
-Saved Black Knights from execution
-Formed the UFN, whose purpose is to liberate Japan
Schneizel (Their arch-enemy and also the emperor's son): Yeah...but he's the Emperor's son
BN: WHAAAAAAT??? FUCK HIM! HE'S OUR ENEMY
As many comments already pointed out, the arms dealer supplied Zero with the costume. I think he is also the old man who Lelouch helps in the chess game of the first episode of season 1 at least it looks like the same character. And that would explain how lelouch knew him. Although how this character is such a good costume designer, who knows.
In a conversation with C2, Lelouch says he always planned his rebellion and that receiving a geass just accelerated his plans. The costume was probably already made beforehand.
@@aqworldszero109 that's true, i would love a spin-off of code geass with no geass for Lelouch but i suppose then he would have been too late to stop charles but that would be a very intresting timeline without his use of geass.
The dumbest part about this is that they react like they have some moral high ground to stand on and maintain. Todoh should know better than any of them that war is a dark, ugly thing and sometimes you have to do nasty things to win. Lelouche did those things for them and delivered the impossible, results which they accept while they reject him and his methods, like the ungrateful hypocrites they are. In this scenario they should have gone with the devil they knew, rather than let a worse one talk them into the stupidity that followed.
Why does everyone ignore that they didn't just betray Zero, they confronted him and demanded a explanation to which Zero laughed and called them fools for taking so long to figure it out.
At that point he didn't have a choice. They expected a civil explanation when they were pointing guns at him. He was also trying to protect kallen from dying with him.
Lelouch not only saw soldiers pointing guns at him up there but also Schneizel, so he knew that he had basically no chance of convincing them.
He was also basically trying to commit suicide because he thought Nunnally was dead. He WANTED them to kill him. Do you remember the scene directly after Rolo saves him? He was fucking pissed Rolo saved him and it was only after he died that Lelouch chilled out a bit. In short
1: He knew the writing was on the wall when the Black Knights confronted him. Especially after he sees Schniezel behind them, realizing that he had no chance to convince them otherwise.
2: He was in a terrible mental state, which is explained in the scenes leading up to the betrayal, because Kallen didn't want to go fetch him knowing how upset he was over Nunnally's "Death".
3: He was being deliberately antagonistic towards them to try and provoke them to attack, in fact, he seems almost relieved when they finally raise their weapons to fire at him. He's particularly hostile to Kallen because he doesn't want her to go down with him, knowing that she was gladly die for him.
@@Aleph3575 yup THIS
on a gunpoint? with the enemy on their side? you don't call that a betrayal?
The funny thing is once he got outed as a Geass user, that only made him stronger because he doesn't need to hide his use now.
Once the Black Knights were "out of the way" he was able to fire off Geass after Geass. Schneizel did the same thing with FLEIJAs and with more sincerity
I am very happy that people still talk about this anime so many years later.
I get why the Black Knights wouldnt trust Lelouch after this. Especially with the recording from the Kururugi Shrine. But the thing that always makes me just blink very slowly in confusion is the fact that Tohdoh just... went along with the crowd?
Tohdoh is one of the few characters within the Japanese cast who actually knows Lelouch, and knows about him and Nunnally being left in Japan with the Kururugis. He was there at the Kururugi Shrine. You would think that Tohdoh would have something to say about Lelouch's circumstances, the same way that Lord Kirihara did.
That also is something that disappoints me dearly about R2 of code geass. This was a huge missed opportunity. It could have shown Todoh opposing this by showing a flash back to where he grows somewhat fond of Lelouch when he was younger and became friends with Suzaku. He could have been a bigger player in the entire story considering the fact that he is connected with both sides in some way. He knows Suzaku, but also knows Lelouch and Nunally. But this is never brought up in the story at all. Just another part of R2 failing.
That recording was manipulated, omitting where Suzaku called Lelouch's claim into doubt.
@@mohammedganai9636 and you are ommiting the fact that the part where suzaku calls lelouch's claims into doubt is...his own internal dialogue, which we hear because we are the audience...
@@teiull9388 Whether or not that's the case, Schneizel only played the part where Lelouch says "I gave the order".
Besides, Ohgi gets away with a lot of crap himself, like not taking it up with the UFN, and his whole business with Villetta, who 1) was an enemy soldier, 2) Ohgi had let his guard down in front of her and let her incapacitate him during the Black Rebellion, which helped weaken the BKs 3) she was responsible for keeping Lelouch under surveillance, and 4) Ohgi himself went AWOL for just episodes earlier. And yet she gets the happiest ending. She is the biggest grifter. But I digress.
The Black Knights didn't just betray Zero at this point, they betrayed the Kyoto group at who threw everything behind them on the basis their leader KNEW who Zero was. I would have expected Toudou to understand that Zero was a necessary evil that the Black Knights needed to survive no matter who he truly was. Their betrayal was exactly that, a betrayal. They followed him, understanding there were reasons he kept his identity hidden, then the moment the slightest doubt was hung over their heads, they pounced on him.
The greatest way to sum up the entire reason they followed Zero was the moment Oghi is aboard their flagship, looking down at the VOLCANO EXPLODING BELOW THEM. The word he utters in horror as he realises the Black Knights are in a battle they probably couldn't win.
There is always some points that make me salty about and it makes me think that the black knights are sometimes stupid and could easily be manipulated
1. How can they believe an enemy Commander that easily? He just revealed them what is geass and what its potential capability. They just accept that it is true. Yes he show them some proofs that zero is using it but they didn't give much thought that he could also probably using it.
2. Ohgi and Veletta backing up the claims against zero. Ohgi is literally having a relationship with a britanian officer. If they didn't know she is not part of the military its kinda ok but at that point its kinda pretty out in the open that she is part of the enemy forces. Zero being a banished prince that has a grudge for britania i bad but Ohgi banging a britanian officer that most likely killed their own comrades is fine?
3. How can they just switch sides with just a blink of an eye?---Yes what Schniezel says could all be true. But is this really the right time to doubt our leader? I mean if its true that he is a prince that means nunally which he wants to capture alive is most likely his sister that just a few moments ago got nuked and by the looks of it he really was not in composure right now. Shouldn't we deal with it after the enemy leaves our premises and not make them watch as we settle it up ourselves?
Why none of them think any of this? Instead they just you know what lets betray him right here right now and why not make Schniezel watch so he can see how easily we turn against each other and forget that britania is our true enemy in an instant
On top of all that….he betrayed us………so fucking what! All of them would have been dead many times over. He fights using realistic ideology not fever dreams that are impossible to achieve. He sacrificed a few lives to save ALL of area 11, and they feel it’s horrible that he’s royalty. They don’t bother to think about the fact that
1. He hates the emperor
2. He willingly executed his own brother to provide ample opportunity for a real resistance
3. He provided everything for them
4. He is former royalty
@@michaelbracho3956 that former is especially true because it means that he is not royalty at all and that means he isn’t a Britannian prince
@@bayarsejar5831 still born as a royal, but seriously, I always hated the black knights. They never thought more than the next move and always failed to see past their pointless pride to see the bigger picture.
@@michaelbracho3956 but he has lived half his life in Japan and he renounced his right to the throne
@@bayarsejar5831 I’m well aware. However by the strongest of the fittest mentality, him taking the throne by force is viable.
The only thing that doesn't make sense is that if Lelouch used his Geass on them then they'd be incapable of doubting him. Thus their very doubts and suspicions and ability to choose to turn on him prove that he never hijacked their free will.
Also, given the absolute power of Lelouch's Geass, he could have made things much easier for himself if he just permanently enslaved all his enemies, as he does towards the end. The fact that he chose not to do so shows that he has respect for free will.
However, they weren't thinking straight because they've been rattled.
If you know Japanese, you should check out this event in the game Super Robot Wars Z2: Sansei Hen.
There is actually an alternate secret route where you can make the Black Knights thrust Zero, and has Wufei Chang from Gundam Wing completely break down Sneitzel arguments (one of the most hilarious ones being that after the Black Knights accepted help from Newtypes, Supersoldiers, Gods reincarnated into Super Robots and even more, Zero's Geass is really not exactly a new experience for them)
Wu Fei even calls out Ohgi's horny ass on that too
Insane how Ohgi "bargained" for Japan in return for the betrayal. Like Britannia was able to keep it from them at that point. Dude might as well have asked for the moon for all Schneizel was able to give.
Schneizel was like: zero sus, eject him
and black nights were like: oh yeah, i actually saw him vent...
🤣
you forgot the old man who saw zero's face and proclaimed to the black nights that ZERO's identity must remain unknown no matter what and that they can be certain that Zero is a mortal enemy of Brittiana and that he wouldn't betray you. if anyone remembered this fact during the discussion it would have been resolved ino.
So on the files you questioned a bit, some of them are probably guesses. Like for Shirley, I highly doubt Schniezel actually knew about the memory stuff, but her death was suspicious enough that he could claim that was Zero and no one can really say he's wrong. We also know he's wrong about the general as that was just a mine, and while he was right about Kusakabe being Geass'd I'd bet he was actually claiming Lelouch made him do the hotel jacking, not the death thing.
Besides that you do bring up a lot of good points, and one point you don't mention that also helps is that Kaguya, Xing-ke, and Rakshata aren't there, none of whom I think would have fallen for that. Kaguya is to loyal to not fight it more, Xing-ke is smart enough to at least try and argue back, and Rakshata would question the details to much for him to keep his act of knowing everything.
Still I maintain Tohdoh and Diethardt should have had more of a resistance. Schniezel has no proof and Ohgi's proof is Villetta, also unreliable.
As a final note though, a "what if" most of Zero's actions are reactions, I doubt Lelouch planned for all of R1 to take less than 2 full months, we even see that when he wasn't reacting to Cornelia's big moves the Black Knights were mostly running drug busts and such. So I wonder if he got his presumably slower schedule, if he could have built more trust and avoided all if this.
He wasn't wrong about the General, the guy in the file was the one who stabbed himself during the Sakuradite meeting hijacking from Lelouch's Geass. The guy on the ship was a different person.
@@DBZHGWgamer that is why I said Katase right after as a completely different person. Boat guy and Katase aren't the same, I literally wrote that if you actually read my comment. Did I just get the title wrong, did you misread or what?
And that makes sense thankfully the recap movies fixed that by having Ohgi and Tamaki still willing to hear out Lelouch not believing he would see them as pawns and with Schniezels attendant instead of Todoh ordering the shooting really hits home that they atleast were willing to still trust and hear his side of things.
@@aozorahaou2643 Except Schiezel and co were still IN THE ROOM for no reason, AND they still held him at gunpoint to question him, not to mention they still accepted dumb evidence to begin with.
@@nahte123456 Ok, atleast they attempted to fix it, but we gotta admit emotions were high after Suzaku nuked the Tokyo Settlement and Lelouch acted irradical in aftermath and locked himself in his room.
You forgot that people would have doubted Ohgi considering he was in bed with the enemy and even basically brainwashed her to love him.
I would not have trusted the guy who is in bed with the enemy and was an incompetent leader when he wants me to betray the leader that actually achieved results.
The massacre was literally the biggest reason why they betrayed Zero. Everything else just add up to their suspicions.
Lelouch: Oh c'mon how much longer are you gonna be mad about that?
Cornelia: You killed our sister. Probably at least a while!
Lelouch: I said I was sorry!
Cornelia: No! You didn't!
@@georgeprchal3924 when reading that I heard it in PurpleEyes voices.
@@YGeo as God intended.
@@georgeprchal3924 Lelouch: Sorry? How about you feel sorry for me?!
@@georgeprchal3924 funny because Cornelia killed thousands of innocent japanese
The funniest thing to me is, after their betrayal, he solos the combined forces of The Black Knights and Britannia. From their perspective, they betrayed him, he gave his villain monologue, and then escaped, then all of a sudden they start losing to his forces the next time they hear of him. And even after all of that, they STILL try to fight him later on and lose AGAIN. I'm sorry, but his initial forces were only ever cannon fodder for dealing with Britannia's stronger pieces. Without Zero at the helm, The Black Knights are a total joke of a military. I fully believe that if the roles were reversed and Lelouch was fighting for Britannia, he would be able to pick them off one by one with minimal effort Batman style and have them admitting defeat before the last soldier fell. Which we actually get to almost see later on when Lelouch fights Schneizel and the Black Knight forces are almost wiped out immediately. I truly don't know what they expected to happen when they decided to betray their galaxy brain of a leader who was the ONLY reason they were even stalemating with Britannia.
When it comes to this moment, I do agree that it’s Schneizel’s scene all the way, as he’s able to move his opponents into a position where they’ll willing to betray their leader, his greatest threat to his own plans, with ease. However, while you do raise some good points as to why the Black Knights were already in a position where their trust in their leader was shaky, I still believe them foolish for four primary reasons.
(1) The source of the information in question, while Schneizel does reveal truths, if only half truths, the fact of the matter is he’s an extremely biased source, he is the enemy commander who hours before they were fighting for control for Japan. Cornelia was their primary antagonist in R1 while Viletta's a Britannian spy who was once a member of the purists.
(2) The information itself is also suspect as I first watched this when I was around 13-14 and even I picked up on the fact that Schneizel never technically gave them evidence of anything, nothing concreate anyway as all he has is suspicions and theories, sure Cornelia and Viletta can back that up but neither can actually prove their claims. The recording was shaky at best as voice changing tech is a thing in this world. Honestly, its why I think they never revealed geass to the UFN as they realized after the betrayal that they got had as like Diethard points out, they’ll be called mad if they tried as they have nothing to prove their claims.
(3) The people in the room as Tohdoh has met the boy, he was present when Lelouch and his sister first arrived at the Kururugi shrine. They spent nearly a year there so surely he either learned more about him, or had a conversation with him so while he can think Lelouch was using them, he would also know that his anger and his drive to defeat Britannia is very much real, and that drive is rooted in his love for his sister who as far as they know, is now dead. At the very least, he should have been the one most willing to hear Zero out, to see what has become of the frail boy with a fire in his eyes he met 8 years prior.
(4) Lastly, there was the FLEIJA strike and while Schneizel would leave out the part where he designed a situation where Lelouch wouldn’t believe Suzaku even had such a weapon, even if informed of it beforehand, why would he think Suzaku would use it? Think about it, he’s threatening to wipe out a Britannian city, filled with mainly Britannian civilians, just to keep it out of Black Knight hands, that’s crazy. That’s the kind of threat a despot would make and while Suzaku had fallen quite a bit, could any of them even imagined him doing that he did?
Quite frankly, they weren’t thinking straight as even when they confronted Zero in the hanger, it was clear that they weren’t willing to listen to him, to let him defend himself as they had already decided he was guilty as even when Kallen pleaded for them to just hear his side of the story, they accused her of being under his control and never lowered their guns, making it clear that they would have shot through her to get to him.
What was kinda sad, at least to me, was that we never for to see Xingke’s reaction to this as he never liked or trusted Zero either, especially after he put a gun to his empress’ head, however he was the most wary of Schneizel and would no doubt call their intelligence into question for buying his claims so completely that they’ll betray their leader without trail or question.
It's all Ohgi's fault.
While I admit the Black Knight's betrayal was a masterstroke on Schneizel's part, the one main reason for his success was that the BK's forgot one thing about Zero: They need him. Throughout R1 and R2, we see that without Zero, the Black Knights were nothing. Before they were the Black Knights, they were just a miserable rebel group on its last legs. If not for Lelouch, they would've met their end at Shinjuku. When Zero went missing during the Black Rebellion, the BKs were utterly stomped. On the day the BKs leadership and surviving members were to be executed, it was Zero who saved their lives. Time and time again, it becomes clearer that Zero was what made the Black Knights so effective. Without him, they're just hilariously pathetic.
It was Schneizel's cunning manipulation that turned the Black Knights on their founder and leader, but if they had just stopped and remembered that Zero saved their lives on numerous occasions, and that it was Zero who was the reason for the Black Knights' existence, then Lelouch would've still had control over them.
I can't really fault them for doubting Lelouch (even if I think they believed Schneizel, who came talking about magic and shit, too easily). He did had a lot of faults to his side.
But, going from deciding to not trust the guy, that can manipulate minds to the point that the enemy (who had them dominated) proposes to negotiate with them, to giving him to the prince of the enemy country (that orders genocide like nothing) and is holding this meeting with the threat of a nuke onboard ...
I still can't say the Black Knights weren't pretty Stupid!
Late reply, but I always felt it would have been a way better scene if Schneizal simply fed them dome bred crumbs, which over the course of time, caused Discord and an eventual internal confrontation with Zero.
Instead, they basically instantly believed Schneizal at face value, and turned on Zero on a dime with very little push. Making them all look extremely cheap with their loyalties and ungrateful. Not to mention, highly unintelligent to just immediately believe your worst enemy who was clearly trying to get rid of your biggest ace in the hole in Zero.
I felt this scene severely dropped the liability of almost all the Black Knights into the gutter, and it never recovered by the end of the show 😪
The only real dumb thing IMO was trusting Schneizel; They were well within their rights to distrust Zero, especially after the stunt he pulled in the First Rebellion.
Lelouch: Just as planned. Now I'll only have Suzaku to know my plan.
Betraying Zero for Japan should make them all international criminals. The black knights at that time were the military for a international coalition. NOT a group solely liberating Japan.
Morally and legally, questioning and even distancing themselves from Zero makes sense. Arresting/detaining him and seeking answers makes sense.
Trading away the only person that can beat Britanian long-term for a land you can't hold for more than a decade and betraying every single other country on the planet is literally the worse move possible.
There r 2 things to consider fir the 3rd thing u mentioned. 1, from everyone's else's eyes, Lelouch was tge one to instigate the genocide on Japan by using geass on euphie. So whatever the end goal was, it would be extremely hard to trust someone who would easily sacrifice that much in an instant. Also, ogie only accepted, after making a deal to return Japan. Although not the smartest move against the enemy, u can see how tge points of what Lelouch is viewed as ties together to the actions if tge black knights.
@@Blackmustache870 Only that it wasnt a genocide but a massacre and considering what britannia had done to japan prior, a very small one to boot and not exactly out of line with what the royal family was doing overall. Also all the black knights present would be long dead without zeros intervention while the guy who they are listening to has actually been trying to kill them, even using WMDs! Then theres the bit that their only "proof" is the enemy leader going "trust me bro, that zero guy? Totaly has magical mind control powers.. and he totaly could have used it on all of you! I got these papers here with text and stuff" and their own comrade waltzing in with an enemy agent he has been secretly banging behind their backs for god knows how long going "yeah totaly trust the enemy guys... my britannian girlfriend who was part of the purist faction confirms all of this". Not even once considering that if what THE ENEMY LEADER tells you is true.. you wouldnt even be able to THINK about betraying Zero because you know.. magical mind control powers...
These guys arent just clowns, they are the entire circus...
The dumb part is that the Black Knights didn't realize that if they were under the power of Geass, then they wouldn't be able to question Zero. They would be mindless slaves to his will. The fact that they are able to question Lelouch should be proof they aren't under a slave Geass.
It was probably best that Kallen wasn’t there Lelouch’s strongest warrior and probably best defender of character would’ve been branded a traitor, in the eyes of her comrades, especially if some of the Black Knights know how she feels about Zero romantically and especially since she’s been hit with Geass
The thing is how could they easily Betrayed Lelouch when lelouch Have provided significant result for them, the fact that they were able to negotiate and compramise with Schneizel at all is thanks to lelouch, its shouldnt even matter whether or not Lelouch have used them or not as again If not for lelouch even kallen have stated that They would have all been dead back in shinjuku and that black knights wouldnt even be a thing, No UFN, No alliance with the Chinese Federation, Shinke would have been Killed by the Eunuchs along with the little girl empress, Todoh's own Liberation army would have been wiped out by Cornelia , yes lelouch used them as disposable pawn for his own gain, But they trusted lelouch not because of lelouch in the first place but rather because lelouch provides them victories that They couldn't have themselves, , so why suddenly felt that they were personally betrayed when the entire rebellion Is practically for each and everyones own gain?
Question to The Black Knights
If You were geassed to trust him, why are You able to doubt about him?
Black knights be like zero betrayed us! He's a prince of Britannia. Let's go join the other prince of Britannia instead!
10:54 aint no way this man needs to change his batteries for his smoke alarm
Yeah, the Black Knights are pretty stupid and they wouldn't have gone anywhere without Zero. They betrayed Lelouch without even giving him a second to explain himself or his actions, this guy pulled them up from being street level thugs and made them worldleaders but he'd probably disingenious, sure that makes us sound smart, let's not even give him a second to explain himself. And in the end, he and Suzaku had to babysit them and fix society for them.
thank you for making this video on episode 19 Ive always wanted someone to dive deep into this episode as this always bothered me
The unname butler from early episodes of Code Geass is the one who made Lelouch’s Zero outfit.
Schneizel is a master manipulator in every way he should be, the way he *presents* his information is as important as the information he provides and when he provides it, regardless of its authenticiity. He of course has no way to know the full scope of the goings on in the Black Knights, but this comes at a critical time in all these character's lives and at a historic low-point in their trust in Zero.
Ohgi is just now reuniting with his love, who was taken hostage by Deitard. Even *if* Ohgi had faith in Zero, Deitard's actions leave Ohgi in a position of spite. Combine this with his already growing conflictions and suspicions and it leaves his loyalty in question.
Tohdoh is a veteran. He's much older than everybody else, has been fighting this war much longer than anybody else and his weariness shows in just about any scene where he's *not* fighting. He's tired of this, but, fundamentally, he can't abandon this dream. But he *knows* he's weary. He knows that Zero seems to be able to resurrect his fighting spirit -- if he were told "you're being mind controlled, here's proof" would he be able to say "that's bullshit"? Everytime he feels like he's out, everytime he has reservations, Zero gives him pause. Zero encourages him to fight, a "leader" who is so much younger than him, who's fought for far less time than him, who parades around in ways that might be unseemly to him (earlier this season Zero says something like "a just call to war" and Tohdoh goes "a _just_ call to war" as if to imply no such thing exists). In fact, his first and only conflict with Zero happened most recently, where he gave an order to retreat while Zero, manically, screamed about finding some Nunally, who to him was *just* the Viceroy, a blind cripple is hardly important in the face of a nuclear detonation.
In fact, the holy swords are all in this book. They've lost more than one member to Zero's plans, especially his more poorly executed ones -- which coincidentally all involve Nunally. When Schneizel says "Yeah he's my baby brother" suddenly a *lot* of things become clear without Schneizel needing to prove that. Whenever this viceroy comes up, Zero tries to move heaven and earth for her. Most of the time he doesnt succeed.
Deitard is maybe the one person in this room who shouldnt be played for a fool. *Nothing* Schneizel says here, no evidence he presents, should shake his faith in Zero coming out on top. Because Deitard isnt in this for the liberation of Japan, or ethical war practices, or for any moral justice. He's here because mythologizing Zero, *creating* history just as much as he documents it, the *STORY* that this is, is what drives him. And with everything Schneizel tells him? This makes the story *SO* much more interesting. Now it's no just "high school boy fights for freedom, becomes international demigogue of justice and grand liberator of the weak" it literally adds the *TRUTH* of Lelouge's quest to the picture. The only thing I think that moves Deitard here is that he's clearly outnumbered and, frankly, no-body *really* likes him. They know he's not for the *CAUSE* he's just here for his own reasons, and he knows if he doesnt go along with this he'll be in immediate danger, and with Viletta's escape meaning he has no leverage on Oghi, who know has *personal* reasons to hate him, is a very pressing one (and likely why he's seen with Schneizel more than the Black Knights hereafter).
What really sells this scene for me is that questions about Zero have been present since the start of the Black Rebellion. His means, motives, an reliability have all come in question at some point. Zero has had the liberation of Japan in his grasp... and he abandoned them. He keeps secrets beyond their reckoning and with what theyre comfortable with. Schneizel, in effect, is "the devil you know" in this scene. The familiarity they imagine they have with him, as in, they believe they understand him, his means and motives, helps him seem *more* familiar than Zero. Schneizel isn't showy like Zero, he doesnt answer questions with questions or rhetoric or impassioned speeches. People ask him questions, and he gives them answers.
"How do you know Zero?"
"He's my younger brother, Lelouch."
"Why should we trust you more than him?"
"He has the ability to control minds."
"How do you know that?"
"Here's a recording of him admitting to using his powers to make Euphie commit her massacre, as well as an itemized list of people who may have been under the effects of his geass which has allowed him to facilitate his miracles, including a number of people related to Lelouch Lamparouge, the man you know as Zero, who's name is shared with my brother, Lelouche -- because they are the same person."
Now, I do think what's good here, is that Oghi *demands* the original goal of the Black Knights in exchange for Zero. They don't like, they don't all go "Oh nooo he has mind control powers? This guy's OUT!" Oghi says "Give us a free japan." because, of course, *NONE* of this evidence matters. Not really. The Black Knights desire for a free japan, for a liberated homeland, trumps even their suspicions. Zero, as far as they know, will *get* them their liberated homeland. Even if they don't trust him, they don't need to, as long as he gets them a free japan -- which happens to also be in Schneizel's power to provide.
I think it's like... having watched through the whole series recently, on a binge, this scene makes a lot more sense when you see *just* how often questions are raised about Zero, and how Zero responds to questions raised to him. Rarely does he *EVER* provide a straight answer. He, literally, gives people anime speeches when they ask him things like "Why should we trust you?" and people go along with it... but it doesnt satisfy them.
Imagine, if everytime you asked a friend "howre you?" they responded with 2 minutes of anime speechifying that *DOESNT* answer your question. Everytime you asked a teacher for instruction they went "you already KNOW the answer because it is in your heart, in your soul! The answers you seek are eteched into your very bones! Go forth! Take this pencil, and engrave those truths carved into your bones upon the page of history!" when you've got a test tomorrow. It's poetic, sure, inspiring even, but... it doesnt answer questions.
Schneizel answers questions. He answers with the confidence and swiftness reserved for facts, even if they are *not* facts. There's enough discontent with Zero, enough niggling distrust that's been there from the start, that having *AN* answer to all of that, plus their ultimate war goal, is enough to inspire a coup.
What I *don't* buy for *ONE* second is Kallen going along with it. Like, she opposes it, then Lulu tells her to stay alive which makes her rethink it, then later she smooches him and he doesnt react and she's just like "ok yeah i guess you DONT care" when, at *EVERY* turn, *EVERY* time she's in danger? He tries to save her. He constantly lies to protect her and she *KNOWS* he lies to protect not only her, but others. Like, fuckin' *ROLO* realized that (partially) and he knew a *FAKE* lelouche. Kallen shouldn't have been in the dark until the final episode, fuckin Jeremiah knew.
You know the thing is, if they were worried about being mind controlled then they simply needed to ask a simple question, ‘how could they betray Lelouch if they were mind controlled in the first place’.
Also Ohgi calling zero a traitor whilst walking in with a member of the Britannian pure bloods.
10:55 please tell me youre not a black guy because that was for sure a fire alarm beep
In your heart you know the truth
I was literally laughing when they were so quickly turned against him. Like bruh y’all are immediately siding with Britannia😭😭😭 all part of Lelouch plan anyway. The GOAT
Also, Schinzel might base his records with the nature of and individual. Meaning to say, if it is against his/her values, they might assume that a certain person have geass.
7:25 his fire alarm went off
5:58 not a teacher, but man in the mall who triggered fire alarm in episode 3.
There was obviously an investigation on who was the person who failed Secret Intelligence operation that day.
How ironic, the guy lelouch tried to kill from the beginning multiple times is the guy who sacrificed his life to save him (rollo)
Now I want to see what you think would've happened if Lelouch was at the meeting.
One big point was when Lelouch abandoned them at the end of Season 1 to save Nunnally during the battle to take Tokyo. This caused a severe disruption in command and the Black Knights were defeated as a result. Many were distrustful of Zero after that.
if they can't win without him they don't deserve to win.
@@HamguyBacon Lelouch caused a ton of screw ups: Euphemia Incident, Abandonment and defeat of Black Knights in Tokyo, got captured and brainwashed by the Emperor to be his puppet, his personal affairs with Suzaku, and finally the FLEIJA Bombing of Tokyo.
Not to mention he lost his marbles after he believed Nunally had died during the FLEIJA Bombing.
@@nothingmatters3802 can you really blame him? He still human after all and if any of the black knights were in their shoes would have done the same (specially Oghi the simp), so they shouldn't act like they had a moral highground and should see the bigger picture instead of only seeing Zero as a symbol only, cause there's still a human behind that mask.
Kallen's betrayal was the most painfull. She was the one who knew before anyone else in the Black Knights(except CC) but she still went along with evry one else in the coup.
@hishenmathurin2844she wanted to kill him
You forgot to mention the slaughter off the geass order and the information given to todo about the kids they were forced to kill
They were pretty easy to convince that geass essentially magic exists
When Ohgi comes in, they have all proof from Viletta and Cornelia (she even says it) and they even have been at the geass cult themselves.
When i first saw this i tought they were going to get closer because now they are all more strusting when i saw lelouch get banished i litterly could not belive it for days.
They ended up going for the deal of Japan for Zero, but there are two big problems with that. 1) Without Zero on their side working miracles, there's really objectively nothing to stop Britannia from just taking Japan back immediately afterwards, and 2) if they hand Zero over to Britannia, there's no guarantee that he wouldn't strike a deal with them and turn his miracles and his Geass against the Japanese faction. Assassinating Zero is a much more realistic option, but there are similarly two big problems with that. 1) Without Zero working miracles, there's no guarantee that they'll be able to continue effectively resisting Britannia, and 2) they don't know if Zero used Geass to get the delegates to the UFN to join, and they don't know if killing him will cancel that Geass and fracture their whole alliance. So realistically, their only option should have been to find a way to continue working with Zero.
The betrayal never pissed me off as it made sense that they went to where they were at I just wish one of them wouldn’t have betrayed lelouch and when questioned by the others would have said the cold hard truth. We are just pawns in this game and I chose along time ago that if I was a pawn I’d put my trust in zero as the player of this game of the world
Forget the initial betrayal, why did they continue to do so after Lelouch attacked the Emperor *AFTER* he had been betrayed already?
Regardless of whether Kirihara was geass'd that would vindicate his statement that Zero was a mortal enemy of Britannia
That being said, his instigation of the Euphemian Massacre is valid enough cause to turn against him for most the Black Knights, but Shingke of all people should know who they're dealing with.
I think Shing Ke and Kaguya should've put up more of a fight
Have to say Schneizel really pulls a smart move
The lip sync at 4:02 is satisfying lol
This is an another aspect on how Schneizel outclasses Lelouch in manipulating as well as deceiving people.
When all you have is reetraded pawns to work with... Poor Lelouch.
It is funny how the black knights thought they beat zero yet him and suzaku took down 3 bases in 10 mintues and then they first sizel yet he wanted to kill them since ep 1
Great dive in. This information goes over many peoples heads, including my own. I just had to accept it as fact, in that hanger, that the jig was up.
They are lucky Lelouch planned to die because if not they would all be dead. Actually, she should have executed every single one of them because he let Suzaku kill him.
Given Lelouch & C2 are your OTP, I'd love to hear your thoughts on 'Lelouche of the Resurrection' and its final ending.
They could easily prove whether geass was used on them or not by asking/making lelouch use his geass on them
I will resume this debate to "The black knights decide to trow the dices and wish they got lucky, but fail, as always"of
Love your videos!
I would rather serve and die as a pawn to a great leader, fighting (and winning) for the freedom of my country. instead of betraying said leader because I was worried that we don't have any control over ourselves when listening to his commands (WHICH WE NEED TO OBEY ANYWAY TO ACHIEVE FREEDOM VICTORY)
Couldve hve been avoided if lelouch was smug and was like “yeah im controlling you into ruining my every plan!” They thought they were being controlled so, that would poke a hole in their logic, and also, they dont know the rules of geass, it could work any which way
I honestly don't blame the Black Knights for their decision. In all honesty, the question of Zero should have been settled after he abandoned them during the first attack on the Tokyo Settlement. Having all the momentum and then just leaving for a mysterious reason, leading to the arrest and execution of some of his most loyal soldiers. Even if someone didn't have the audience perspective that would seem really suspicious.
Yep. Throw him out and never get Japan.. very logical, lol
@@qud3913 ever heard of cointelpro? It was an operation by the FBI to send feds in and neutralize dissident groups by having agents pose as members. Zero just dropping everything and leaving when they had all the momentum warranted such suspiciousion.
@@flacsa636
That's nowhere a good analogy.
Here's one that shows how ridiculous it was:
Russia at war, they are winning in every front, Biden's son goes to Russia, tells the top leaders that Putin is manipulative.. etc, and he got Magic powers..
Next scene, them pointing gun at Putin.. Bruh
@@qud3913 exactly
O.o BOO THIS MAN!
I've always wondered why they did not question their questioning of Zero. If they were really Geassed to serve Zero how would they even have the ability to question him? The idea they were forced to follow him in this circumstance is ridiculous.
I wonder if Lelouch killed General Katase because he was too cautious. Seriously after the mysterious death of Kusakabe and the Destruction of Narita base. Katase would have been suspicious. I'm sure it was Lelouch feeding info about Katase to Cornelia.
7:50 I'm pretty sure he's the one who was responsible for getting the original Zero outfit made, specifically the helmet with the retractable eye covers
Also, people seem to forget that, yes, they do betray Zero, but then when they confront him Lelouch just confirms all their suspicions (because he wanted to die), so it's not like he helped his case.
I think what made them lose their faith on zero is not the fact that he is a prince nor does he have a geass, well that may have been one of the reasons but not entirely. The reason for betrayal is the acts he did using geass such as the japanese massacre through euphy, leaders of rebellion commiting sacrificial bombing and many more. They felt compelled that they are only pawns to him to accomplish his agenda for revenge and not for the freedom of the japanese people. I truly believe that the black knights are hypocrites as they celebrated the success and victories caused by lelouch but not willing to bear the burden of sin together with him which is the acting force for that success and they ultimately blame it all on lelouch while basking on their achievements like being such a big organization that they can influence the politics of the entire world, they're only a small time terrorist back then with no power but look how big they've gotten.
Schneizel is built up as this master strategist but it's not so much that he's cunning & intelligent but rather, the black knights are so goddamn stupid that they completely fall for the most simple trick. Disappointing but not entirely unexpected.
I think this is fanatic video because get at heart of one of my favourite theme in Code Geass which is that sometimes lies are needed because this really does link well with what Leloch says to Charles as his plan was to make a world without lies but lelouch points out something people tend to forget and it's summed up in this quote "why do people lie it isn't only because they struggle with each other it also because the is something that seeking you now want a world without change how stagnate you could hardly call life just a world memories, just a world closed and completed that world I wouldn't want live in" so yes he lied at every turn with black knights as mention but it was most every time to archive great success but because he only lied he left himself isolated as C.C. warned "the power of king will condemn you to life of solitude are prepared for this" but with all lies and manipulation he use them to truly free the world and In where "the march of time" continues
I really wish I could talk at every instance because I have a few things to say. Anyway, I think its absurd to believe Snizel. First, when mentioned Zero was a member of the Royal family, that Sakuradite mine owner did say he was a true mortal enemy to Britania and must keep he identity hidden. The ones in the room who say this arent too fond of him from their manner of speech. BNs should ask who this Lelouch is and his significance. Even before asking they should conclude Zero is not remotely an ally of them. Another think Sniz say is Zero is this supernatural power and logical people should just refuse this statement. If someone came along and told me that any famous general in history thanks to some super power, I will immediately call them a fucking liar, its absurd. Why should anyone even humor that idea? Sure the explanations fit but its still impossible due to common logic. Theres logical explanation for everything, people thought the Black Plague was divine judgement for centuries but it was from a disease that people of the time didnt know about diseases. Then theres UFOs and religious miracles, those can be explained by other natural phenomenon and coincidences. Common knowledge of most people is super natural doesnt exist and even if it seems super natural, its some thing that can be easily explained. Sure some people would say Lelouch is super natural but most will ridicule the idea, since their world is very similar to ours, people would firmly believe this super natural thing Sniz says is impossible and should conclude other things from this. I would think he trying to sow discourse for our leader. He is showing picture but thats all, still no proof of this supernatural ability. A lot of these are too good to be true, oh, this potential ally, one of our allies, yeah that was weird, but you, Sniz, say it was some special ability that magically explains all these weird things so perfectly? Bullshit. Most everyone would think that and the others that did believe it, should be snapped back into logic. Even if Ougi did come in with his explination, a logical person will still dismiss his explanation, its not logical and supernatural is impossible and supernatural and mysterious things have been proven time and time again as errors in deductive reasons like ufos and ghosts. Yeah of course I am entirely wrong in the contexts of the show, which supernatural things do exist, but for the common person, should believe like ours, supernatural is impossible. Sniz should not even had idea even humored since he is an enemy and his perfect explanation is so perfect its too good to be true.
I don't think people give Schnizel enough credit. He is, at worst, the 2nd smartest person in the world, and at this point in the series, is easily the most charismatic. He may not have geass, but he understands the human psyche better than anybody else, and had likely been planning this strategy for months. People simply don't factor any of this in when considering the believability of the Black knights betraying Lelouch.
7:51 I believe that guy designed the zero's costume (or at least, the helmet with the eye opening feature)
Truth is without Zero, they would have all been slaughtered, Oghi's group was just a minor band of rebels and were about to be killed by Jeremiah when Zero cornered Clovis and made them withdraw. The JLF and Todoh's group would have been wiped out by Cornelia, and she came to Japan to purge the resistance after Zero bested Clovis, and this is all before Schnitzel even cared to show up in Japan. The Black Knights were only as successful as they were because of Lelouch's genius and sheer determination. Even the power of Geass is not actually central to Lelouch's strength, as he is a formidable strategist and determined enemy of Britannia all on his own. Lelouch actually says early in the story he intended to fight Britannia without the Geass to which CC remarks she knew he would be an interesting guy. Ultimately Geass is a very useful tool that greatly aids and accelerates Lelouch's plan, but comes with its own side effects of being hard to control and even harder to explain when push comes to shove.
Schnitzel is easily the toughest opponent for Lelouch because he knows Lelouch inside and out, how he thinks and is a true genius in his own right. Do not ever underestimate Schnitzel because he is set up to be Zero's perfect counter, he is either matching or surpassing Lelouch in every way. Lelouch even acknowledges Schnitzel as superior to himself and only bests him in the end by understanding his opponent the same way Schnitzel understands him and plays him with the recording and geass at the very end.
Ilove how black knights just instantly trust schneizel their arch enemy zero has an godly power
But then say
That they cant say people what power has zero because they wont believe it 😂
Alright, you've convinced me to rewatch Code Geass again, tomorrow, for the 50th time, instead of doing homework. I regret nothing!
The arms dealer helped them get the fancy transport thing they use. It's also likely that they worked together quite frequently
The armsdealer made his Mask, I always assumed he used his geas to let him forget that he made the Zero Mask.
Honestly, I’m probably in a minority to agree with this. I like how in the Compilation movies the Black Knights are more hesitant to believe Lelouch’s lie that he has been using them, but it can feel like fans put to much worth in Zero’s victories. Sure, the Black Knights should have had some more scrutiny since their enemy has many good reasons to fake everything presented to them, but it doesn’t change the fact that the only thing they even know about Zero before then is that he isn’t Japanese. For crying out loud, in what world should soldiers only learn the true name of their leader due to their enemy? And the potential threat of being Geassed? It feels like fans forget about paranoia.
Yes, Ohgi being with a Britannian officer is certainly a major security risk, but just imagine if Lelouch was still putting on an act so he could take over the world with the UFN? I mean, isn’t that a terrifying thought?
"Lelouch speaks Japanese fluently" yet the entire English dub has them speaking English and just pretending it's not English :P
Sneezal didnt bring bombshells he brought fleija's