The Off-Road Recovery That Almost Killed Me!
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- In this video, I take a deep dive into the incident from a personal, story perspective. Then we zoom out and look back using hind sight 20/20 and a birds eye view. I include various clips, pics and physical evidence. Please watch the WHOLE story and do not skip, you will get a false idea based on partial facts if you do. Use this as a tool to educate and encourage safety when recovering. Share to your hearts content!
Be safe out there! - Авто та транспорт
Lot of interesting comments😅 A couple things:
-Shorter video coming
-No, I’m not affiliated
-No, I’m not an influencer. I’m a documenter of my life for you all to judge publicly 😅. Use the term Instalander if you like.
-A detailed breakdown from a true expert is coming from @madmatt4wd that answers a lot of the assumptions and questions I’m seeing. I’m told it will be shorter as well;)
I tried to answer a few questions but I’m honestly not perusing the comment section that much or staying to date with it. If you have a direct question then feel free to message me (or harass me) on the IG’s.
Thanks everyone and God Bless!
Glad your OK man. Thanks for the education!!🙏
Appreciate your desire to learn and educate about your experience.
Snow people use shovels alot too. It cuts down on how much you have to pull. You can get out more with your own power.
I’m glad that things did not end up worse. The Lord was watching over you big time!
why did this need to be an hour long
i was a wire rope specialist and chain and rigging certification tech for 15 years, one of the main contributing factors i see is you did not just do 2 pulls but about 4. these Low Volume Kinetic Ropes should be used for a maximum of 2 snatch pulls in a 24hr period as they take a good amount of time to come back to length. (so swap out all gear used in the line of pull) each time you pull and snatch they stretch slightly more each time so by the time you got to that 4th and last pull you effectively had a Static Rope with about 2% stretch (maybe??) instead of the 30% you started with and it was already stretched out to near its maximum it would go. that put more and more force on your soft shackle and everything else in the line of pull putting way more force that you would get with the Kinetic Effect softening the blow. (this explains why the connection point on the front gave way and pulled out so far) the soft shackle itself i would say from the views i got of it would have possibly been also because when he backed up and took off again it was going down underneath then whipping up as it took load and this can load up one side of all the strands more than the other so effectively more load going through one side than the other which puts those particular strands into the break load force area and it lets go. the sharp radius of the opening it was through would have not helped with this either. on a sharp radius the inside fibres will get sometimes 0 pull load and the outer ones being tighter over the top will take all the load (you get the same with steel cables) have seen this many times doing investigations on breakages and accidents. we had proper High Load KE Ropes in the army for armoured vehicles that had up to a 60% stretch that were more like a big Bungee and used the bounce back that would suck a 12 metric ton M113 out of the mud that was half way up the hull and with a belly suction. we could only use them once a day and they got very hot after use and had special gloves to handle them. all i can say is it was lucky you did not have steelwork give way as i have done an investigation in a workplace death caused by a sling breaking and the shackle on the end struck him and killed him instantly. hope you get what i mean in my explanation. stay safe.
that whipping up from underneath could also explain why the rope end came up as it came back at you. should have the rope laid out behind the pulling vehicle and in front of the one being pulled with the slack snaking left and right half way between them so more of a strait pull as it takes (also driving back over a rope isn't good for them and could cause extra damage if something sharp and hard was under the rope)
I can't imagine many people are aware of that.
Excellent observation. I also noticed that kinetic rope had hardly any stretch.
I have some very basic knowledge of ropes and webbing from climbing in my younger years, I knew some hard impacts on a carabiner should be swapped and checked. Same with off road recovery to check your equipment after you use it and put it away. Make sure to check for stress tears or other potential failure points.
Thank you for sharing the information about kinetic ropes and stretching. It makes perfect sense but I've never heard it before in any recovery I've ever done and I also was an assistant many years ago for towing (aka the kid who had to crawl under everything to hook up cables lol)
With off-road recovery equipment we didn't have access to kinetic ropes or shackles back in the day. I assumed they were returning to normal after use unless you saw fraying but that's pretty dumb to think. We always used static lines and would slow pull, maybe a slightly bump forward but never yanks. I had one dude "Yank!!" My Jeep from a snow bank that I didn't usually ride with and he pulled a static line like a kentic and had I not broke free that pull we were not trying it again. I know the risks of injury and wasn't going near his full throttle Yank off the snow bank.
I appreciate your informative notes on this video. It's something I'm absolutely going to make a mental note of to share with any of the guys I know wheeling regularly and will be making sure to have additional equipment to swap out to.
I may have missed it in your explanation, I'm working and reading/responding to this. I'm curious about slower pulls on static recovery straps and should they be swapped at the same intervals? Or does shock factor into this as well? I have multiple static recovery straps in the Jeep currently is why I asking. Working in TacMed/high threat medical training as a contractor I know one split second mistake can be life changing injuries or death. I take gear being properly used and trained on being vital to reducing these catastrophic incidents.
@@phl_knives static straps are fine to take a slight shock, many people use proper lifting webslings for pulling and sometimes when they take a load for lifting they will load up quickly (although it is suggested to take the load slowly to start when lifting) they have between a 6x to 7x safety factor on the lift rating to break load (so a 2tn websling should have an MBL of 12 to 14tn) a websling designed and rated to lift 2tn can actually safely pull 6tn for a slow pull as for pulling the safety factor is 1/2 of MBL and even if the item is 6tn it actually isn't taking that full weight. always inspect your gear before use and anything more that 5% wear in the webbing get it checked (or they can be so cheap these days just chuck it) doing vehicle recovery you would have to watch pulling vehicles up steep backs like with something like a car stuck in drainage ditch or similar as you are starting to take more of the weight so you would then go back to the lift rating for how much you would pull on it.
10 year EMT here, with military corpsman experience, ER and prehospital experience. Im really glad youre ok! Great job with applying pressure and everyone just jumping into action! Just an FYI: bright red blood is from an artery, which on the neck is the carotid artery. Usually can see it squirt if you knick an artery. Veins are darker blood, usually just ooze out.
Yea it was more like a very fast drop everywhere. I couldn’t physically see it except all the blood running down and was relying heavily on what others were saying. Thanks for the tip on blood colors! Learned something. I was just repeating was I was being told on scene by the guy treating me and a retired EMT on scene
It's the internet! Anyone can be anything. 40 years Spiderman here.
Yeah exactly, he didn’t lacerate his carotid. Jugular arteries don’t exist in humans
@@popo_pattyyou heard them wrong. An emt did not tell you that artery blood is dark dark
very possible, either way this is a silly thing to argue about in the grand scheme.@@texasmade0109
Can I convince you to make this much shorter? It's very important for all the rookies out there to hear about the dangers of Chinese made recovery gear and proper mounting points but, man, you need to edit this down to 10min total otherwise most won't get the message. They aren't going to sit for an hour! Sorry for the trauma you went through and thanks for making it public.
That is a very valid point! I won’t change this one as I want the full pic as well. This was mostly spoken offhand with the exception of the first intro (can you tell I’m reading 😅). I’m gonna work on something for sure. I’m talking to SNORR about maybe doing something with them.
Yeah, 1 hr. But really could be 5 min. Way too much drama.
This ❤
I agree, don’t need to take this one down, but a 10-15 min video with the summary would be valuable. Thanks for sharing.
I am glad you are safe. Thank You for taking the time to post the video and explanation. I hope it will help others to learn how to do safe recoveries and realize accidents can and do happen. I know as a recovery expert I will never post videos of unsafe or questionable practices on UA-cam. I know people will emulate what we as influencer do. Thanks again.
I've seen people open their hood when they're recovering from the front end. I guess denting your hood is better than your windshield.
a piece of metal will fly right through that just so you know. probalby stop a kinetic, but a shackle or tow ball will rip right through there.
That was what I was taught many years ago , I looked at a jeep that had a winch cable come back and strike it , it dented the hood enough that the windshield had a fist sized place in it , but the hook on the winch that broke did not reach the drivers compartment , the drive/operator of the winch was operating from the outside off to one side with his remote .
That may be good for winching operations but when you’re being pulled out and need to see where you’re going having the hood up blocks the view forward needed.
@@timjchick, there is a small gap were You can easily see.
@JustinKingOffroad and it will still slow it down to the point of not coming through your windshield vs full energy at it
"Get Home-itis" is a condition that kills more private pilots than anything else.
While not the same thing, it's similar with the rushing to catch up and not going through your checklist.
Good on you for realizing you failures and sharing them! This is an something you have to experience or sometimes comes with age to slow your roll and assess the situation.
Thank you for the video!
Glad you are OK. Thank you so much for taking the time and sharing your story.
Please everyone, when you are using a kinetic rope, make sure it is tight, take ONE meter back! If this is not enough think how to reduce the load, do not do another pull with 2-3-4 meters of slack.
We've been testing the pulling force and it can reach over 10k and even 15k lbs and take a part shakels and mounting points and kill you.
Another point is that a kinetic rope needs to rest between pulls. If you used it a few times it is no longer kinetic!
It will take hours until it gets back to the original state.
As for the "amazon" soft shakel, like any other soft shakel it usually breaks at the loop as it is doubled all the way except of the loop so this would be the weakest point.
Stay safe ❤
A little shoveling goes a longways to ease pulling a vehicle out of the snow or mud, always take time to access your situation and always minimize the amount of slack used with a kinetic rope. We all need to always consider the extreme dangers of pulling a vehicle out whether with a winch a chain or a kinetic rope. Glad you survived, not everyone does.
Ueah but there is always that one guy who likes to do the "My truck is so powerful" bullshit and do this...
Like all accidents involving equipment people are either careless or ignorant, I've seen a lot of people doing stupid things and if you approach them to caution them, they get pissed and tell you to get lost. Perhaps it should be part of drivers ed. But like you said there will always be that guy! @@trxtech3010
I like my foldable shovel.
I need to get one and when I go to the flea market this summer, I'm going to pick up a pointed shove and shorten the handle, so it fits into my CJ5.@@adaptedbythedans
First I'm glad your ok.
TLDR; The pull was to hard. Your soft shackles were just to small for your rope. Your rope was to big for your vehicle mass and recovery points. You did not use a bridle to distribute the load between the recovery points. These are the factors that caused the failure.
I respectfully disagree with you on why the soft shackle failed. Yes it was over loaded and that is why it failed. But you seem to hint it is because of quality. I don't think that is the case. Your nylon rope was to big at 1". When you use an over sized kinetic rope it can't stretch the way it is supposed to. Think about a vehicle with that is over sprung. The springs stop acting like springs and act like metal bars. You can clearly see in the drone footage that the recovery rope is not elongating the way it should. What you'd expect to see is the rope get about 20-30% longer. This is the spring that helps with the pull; It is also the difference between a kinetic recovery and a car accident. F=MA, the A is acceleration. The shorter the time of the initial yank the more energy is transferred. The spring action of the rope lowers the initial jerk and lets you use momentum.
Further evidence of this is the bending and breaking of your recovery point. The soft shackle did all it could. I looked up your bumper and it says it is 11ga steel. Hot rolled steel has a yield strength of 38,000psi and a tensile strength of about 52,000psi. Dyneema @ 3/8" will have a failure strength of somewhere between 16k -17k lbs depending on quality. When you double it over like in a soft shackle. You get a failure strength of around the same as the steel plate of your bumper. It is no surprise you ripped the recovery point off the vehicle. That shackle held a tremendous load for a few fractions of a second before it failed. I would expect any 3/8" soft shackle to fail in almost the same way. Unless the recovery point failed first, in this case it is very lucky that isn't what happened.
Important takeaways as I see it.
1. Trauma classes like stop the bleed are essential even for off road driving. Your training and exp. helped your situation.
2. Proper sizing of gear is essential. Unless you have a vehicle over 8000lbs you don't need a 1" kinetic rope. 7/8 or possibly 3/4; I think 3/4 would have been under sized. Matching your shackles and recovery points to your rope is very important. Distribute load any time you can. Just because it looks like a recovery point doesn't mean it is.
3. Recovery equipment like bow shackles are the wrong tool for the job. They are designed for wire rope and chain not Dyneema. 4x the diameter of the rope is what the radius of a mounting point should be (Samson Amsteel spec, but will be similar for any Dyneema). We need better tools for Dyneema rope.
4. Keep calm and evaluate. You did this when you were hurt. That was good. But a moment of reflection and pondering the forces involved can save your life in a recovery.
You commented that you wanted or thought the rope to fail in the middle when using strong enough soft shackles. This isn't how ropes fail. You will usually see a fail near but not on a knot, splice, radius or stress riser. All things being equal a failure in the middle of a rope is almost always an indication of damage to the rope.
When he was pulling you backwards it was dragging you towards the ditch because you hooked on the high side of your bronco. Always hook the lower side in a situation like that
I was noting that same issue, it does the exact opposite of what one wants and is compounded when there isn't enough angle on the pull which certainly was the case in this scenario.
You can even see his Jeep twist sideways in the initial pull, which caused the passenger side to just dig deeper into the snow. I'll give POPO the benefit of the doubt here and attribute this wrong side anchor point to his rushed approach to the whole recovery.
@@tomferrin1148 That and it shows the longer rope is not always the best tool due to that causing a poor pull angle, nor a rope that is on the large side for what its being asked to do.
48:30 we added a first aid kit to our Broncos because of your incident! Glad you’re ok brother!
Glad to see folks adding first aid kits. Consider getting them in red or international orange. You may have to send someone to grab your gear. A camo or black bag next to several others of the same color doesn't stand out. If you tell someone to grab the red/orange bag and it's the only red/orange bag it saves seconds.
Not to sound like a know it all, but your soft shackle was definitely cut by the steel shackle. here’s a couple examples to explain why I come to this conclusion. Take a T-shirt and drape it over a stick of butter and use a butter knife to cut through the butter. The shirt will not be cut, but the butter will most definitely be cut. I have been doing tree work for 30 years and ropes have always been one of my primary tools that I use. Many of the ropes that we use have an inner core and an outer sheath, often times the load is shared between the inner and outer but sometimes the outer sheath is just for abrasion resistance, and the inner core carries all of the load. With those ropes, it is very easy to sever the inner core, and have the outer sheath be undamaged. Part of our daily gear inspection was checking every inch of our ropes for deformed cores. I’m really glad you shared this story and have made a complete recovery!
Yes, the fact that it was an amazon shackle had nothing to do with it. You can't fool proof everything. You are using a fabric rope with an anchor with 2 sharp edges. There are even guidelines on how think of a D ring you should use so that you are not folding the rope in half.
I was looking for this exact comment. This comment needs to be pinned. I am no expert but it sounds like the CLEVIS MOUNT on the Jeep’s rear bumper is the culprit. That clevis mount is designed to accept a D ring shackle pin, not a soft shackle. Each pull was literally cutting the soft shackle until it failed.
wasn't necessarily cut by the sharp points where it was fed through but overloaded at those points. when it goes around a sharp point like that the fibres on the inside can have sometimes 0 pull force on them and the outer ones going over top take all the load force as they go around a bigger radius so overloading those fibres beyond limit, you get the same with both wire ropes and soft fibre ropes. on a wore rope you will break one of the main cores very easily doing this and why they have a minimum radius they should go around based on the diameter and construction of rope. this evens out the force more evenly between inner and outer cores and also with the cores rotating withing the rope itself that helps even more (some steel cables are a minimum of 3 to 6 times the diameter of the rope some even more like swaged steel rope) i was a wire rope and chain and rigging certification tech for 15 years.
Goes to show that when it's rushed, simple things are overlooked as he mentioned. There are plenty of ways that could have been rigged up and done, even using an Amazon soft shackle, no failure would have occured. Softer pulls with a different rigging would have been sufficient, but imo, that recovery job should have been the winch vs a pull.
It really sounds like with the amount of force they somehow managed to create in that rope, something was going to break, regardless. Better shackle, no sharp points, it was going to be something else. The ways pressure can bind up in a rope like that seems pretty amazing, sure sounds like much more force that some "smallish" jeep on snow could ever create, but the evidence of what it did to his bumper, and a ROPE going through a windshield seems pretty clear....
I dont know you or have even heard of your channel but I appreciate your story and couldn't be happier you recovered. Thank you for sharing your lessons and moving pride out of the way to admit you made some wrong decisions. You are clearly a man of integrity. All the best
Your recovery rope was connected to your bumper on the driver side. Off-center attachment points mean the pull will not be 100% straight, there will be lateral movement. That could have contributed to the front of your vehicle going further off road. Seems attaching to the passenger side might have pulled the front the other way.
Glad you're ok, and thank you for sharing!
My first thought also. Likely picked driver side for convenience and thinking an easy pull back. After the first pull I would definitely have switched to pass side.
Should have had a tree saver attached to both shackles to center the load and pull off both shackles at same time
Too much speed. I really feel that is the problem.
yea if you bend bumper brackets and bumpers with a connectic rope then too much speed. that was crazy!@@keepthemgold1
Hopefully people take this from this experience: Dont panic, slow down & actually visualize & assess ALL the injuries before making a plan. Glad your ok & keep on rockin brother 🤙🤙
Thank you for sharing your story brother. Some of those moments were emotional to watch and I thank God you are recovered and still with us. Great lessons, a lot to take away from this.
Thank you for taking the time to make this video. It's crazy that the rope went all the way through and out the back-side window. Glad you are safe.
Glad to hear you’re ok. Thanks for sharing your very informative and truthful experience !
After explaining the damage to the bumper/shackle mount . I’d trust an amazon soft shackle
From a fellow offroader and recovery person. I'm extremely grateful that you are ok. I've seen catastrophic failures on the trails. When I do recoveries like this, I usually ask them to duck down for the initial tug. Again, I'm grateful you are still with us. Please don't stop wheeling accidents happen. failures happen ..... be safe .
Caleb, thanks for the incredible details and showing everyone that something we do all the time, can and is dangerous. Also what a great community that comes together and helps with anything needed.
Thanks for this video. It must have been very hard to go back over the incident. This will save others lives so kudos to you. I believe you have a purpose on this earth to help save others. Awesome job. Glad you were safe. I’m a nurse and carry tons of first aid in my jeep. I have multiple kits throughout in case I’m at the back, or at the front, or stuck myself in a wreck. Thanks again for sharing. So glad you are safe and are spreading this message. 🤙
I would add that if traveling in a group the whole purpose is to have that support. The vehicle ahead should not have been separated that far IMO.
Group isn’t at fault here, they were within sight when I got stuck and offered to come grab me. I declined as the Jeep was passing. My fault entirely.
That's what I was thinking... While I don't go out in the truck with a group, when going off rds on motorcycles, we have a rule that you're all supposed to be able to see the bike behind you. If you don't, stop and/or turn around. If someone get stuck, we all stop and wait.
As far as the accident is concerned, glad he made it out relatively OK.
- A case could be made about a safety blanket over the rope, and some sort of CB/radios for communication between vehicles.
First off, I noticed the Uncle Sam ducky on your Bronco. 😃 Excellent video and I'm glad you're still here to share your firsthand experience and offer it up as a lesson to all. Kudos to you. THANK YOU for taking the time to recap what was undoubtedly a very harrowing experience. Remember, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger (and hopefully wiser). This was an excellent, clinical, and cognitive analysis of what you experienced. Your stressing the importance of slowing down and assessing (and reassessing) the situation as it developed was spot on. Bravo! I'm DEFINITELY going to get some American-made soft shackles for my off-road pack. I've already got the first aid kit (hooked to the back of my passenger's seat). Again, thanks for your video. I'm looking forward to seeing you out on the trails again. Cheers, Caleb (not Jacob)
Caleb, I am so glad that you are OK. There is a saying that comes to mind, in motorcycling: "You can go fast on a motorcycle, but don't hurry on a motorcycle"....I too have had things go wrong through over-confidence, rushing and complacency from having done things so many times before.....One thing that I think is important to mention.
I think a lot of folks who are unfamiliar with recovery gear won't fully understand your explanation as to exactly why the soft shackle failed.
YOU know this, but it bears repeating: Never, EVER put a soft shackle into the bore of a hard shackle mounting point, as the edges of the bore in the shackle mounting point will READILY shear through a soft shackle or rope. The soft shackle has to be looped through a standard metal shackle, or other secure attachment point with a sufficiently large radius at all of it's points of contact, that it wont concentrate the forces at a finite edge, and cause shearing.
The fact that the soft shackle used was a cheap amazon type, really had very little to do with this failure; the same thing would have likely happened to just about any type of soft shackle. The fact that (on the opposite end) the attachment point on your bronco and frame saw damage, is also not any indicator that changes the root cause of failure. This guy made a brief explanatory video:
www.tiktok.com/@offroad_recovery/video/7241736448943066414
ya man the crystaline structure is different and that softie becomes the weakest overstressed point. Bro rope-darted himself.
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, safe, accurate, and successful
Thank you for sharing this. You will be instrumental in saving much pain. As Matt (MORR) always says, start with the lightest pull possible and work up.
This is what I was thinking is I’ve learned from Matt to hit soft first and work your way up. But checking your equipment is also important and the recovery point on the bronco should’ve been on the passenger side to help pull him out rather than pull him back into the snowbank…. If it was hooked up that way the trajectory may have missed the vehicle altogether (or put the passenger at risk)
What scares me is Matt puts the rope around a trailer ball.
In fact, Matt never does. He has sometimes used a three ball draw ball where the loop goes around all three. The loop is not against sharp surfaces, it goes around the three balls against round surfaces. The wrong way, as he himself says, and does not recommend it, but with his experience, he still considers it safe.
Matt usually always pulls the rope tight first, reverses the car to the rear of the gauge, and then pulls a sharp snap. If that's not enough, then two car measures to the rear and a new jolt that adds energy to the pull. Usually that's enough. If that's not enough, then Matt adds another kinetic rope as an extension, which increases the kinetic energy, but at the same time keeps the pull speed still low. If the double rope were to fail, it would probably hit the ground before the tow or the other way around.
He would never do something like Jeep does in the video. The rope is loose almost its length and from there the gas to the bottom, completely absurd. The energy is insane, the rope stops stretching, something has to fail and unfortunately it did. The Jeep driver has clearly never used a kinetic tow rope.
A jacket, especially a thicker winter jacket, etc. is good around a rope or cable. You can string it on a rope and close the zipper, and wrap the sleeves in a knot or thread the rope through the sleeves. When a rope or cable fails, it forms a knot and slows it down, as well as softens a possible impact.@@BigFrogs4x4
MORR is not a great reference for safe recoveries.
I've seen MORR pull with similar intensity to what happened in the video when its needed. Difference is the kinetic rope is attached to thick round surfaces like a ball hitch or D ring that are not sharp. I've often thought they pull too hard sometimes and its not safe though. I would certainly have the hood up as an extra layer of protection if they every pulled me.
Glad you’re ok man. I’ve been watching Matt’s offroad recovery and learned a lot from them. So I get what you mean that pull was hard. Hope everybody watch it too. But really glad you’re ok and shared your video to us where we can learn as well. 👍👍👍
Glad you're doing okay. For the future, keep in mind that the problem of running soft shackles through the recovery tab instead of a D-ring is not that the sharp angle will "cut" the soft shackle, but rather the sharp bend causes all of the load to be concentrated into the inside layer of the shackle - effectively giving you a much weaker soft shackle.
Great breakdown Caleb! As the person who recorded a AZ Tow Ball breakdown video in excess of a million hits, I'm glad you are still here! I do not ever want to make another one of those. Colorado 4x4 Rescue and Recovery preaches safety, and practices it on every mission!
Wow that second sentence is a fkn DUZY.
Never miss an opportunity to self aggrandize.
Shout out to CO 4x4 rescue. I’ve seen you work in hills. Haven’t needed you yet, knock on wood, just glad to know you’re around!
Glad you did this video bro sorry this happened to you bro. One thing I’ve noticed from everyone that records recovery videos that don’t always pull straight.
If you look at videos where gear testing is done straight. Soft Shackles are tested using hard shackles . I personally am a millwright and work rigging heavy equipment turbines generators heavy duty presses. All our rigging equipment goes under extreme weights so everything needs to be inspected before each use and procedures to be done. Soft shackles should never be used on bumper recovery points without a hard shackle.
All soft shackles are not to be shock loaded I can guarantee that based on my training.
No need to blame anyone or to down talk Caleb. I appreciate you sharing for all us to learn as an off-road community we should all help each others and grow as one
I'm also a Millwright and 100% agree, Soft shackles are not Rated for dynamic loads, I only use them in winching situations. A bow shackle should have been used on both ends when attached to the kinetic rope.
That is a very interesting point and not one I’ve seen brought up. Genuinely curious companies advertise their soft shackles on dynamic pulls
@@popo_patty they can be used during dynamic pulls, just not as hard as the Jeep pulled. Determining dynamic forces are extremely difficult, even in a controlled environment. Based on the drone footage, there was probably 5 to 10 times as much force exerted by the Jeep, than the shackle was rated for. I am a tree removal arborist, I have been using dynamic ropes for almost 30 years and have broken, a lot of hardware, and a few static straps. I sure appreciate you making this video, there is so much to learn from your story!
This is way dramatic, glad you are ok but you are the only one to blame even if it is being made out the jeep pulled too hard. Go watch other offroad recovery companies that pull harder with bigger vehicles hooked on both ends. You and you alone bought cheap equipment, you and you alone hooked that equipment up improperly, you and you alone did not communicate how you wanted the pull executed. This video and people in the comments saying the guy pulled too hard is a joke. Glad you are good, hope YOU more then anyone learned from your mistakes. I agree with the guy that said this is way too long of a video, remover your dramatic feelings portion, don't buy cheep shit for serious situations and 1000000% don't blame or make it out that the guy pulled you too hard! This is only your fault not the jeep dudes in any way shape or form. This whole video is making it out to be the other guys fault and not yours. If you had hooked it to the passenger side to start with it likely would have came out. This is not the jeeps fault it is yours alone and you need to get that completely, and stop saying you don't blame him while you are blaming him the whole time. You blaming the "yank" honestly leaves no respect left for you, can not have respect for someone willing to blame someone else for their mistakes.
I'm new to off roading and was looking for a kinetic rope, and I need to understand if you meant that a soft shackle should not be used in conjunction with a kinetic rope? I'm not clear what you mean when you wrote "shock loaded". Please explain.
this was 99.9% caused by inexperience and poor communication. that cheap soft shackle luckily got cut through before chunks of metal broke off either vehicle. had you used a clevis on the jeep maybe the weld would have broke and that would have done you in.
Always communicate first, make sure the puller is both experienced and fully briefed on the the process. when in doubt get out and reassess the situation. this should have been a pretty easy recovery with the tools you used. You rushed this without asking or communicating the experience level of the other driver. Thank goodness everyone survived, and thank you for the informative story.
Thanks for sharing your story! I’m glad you recovered. That’s gnarly man!!! I’m going to study up on proper recovery practices and be more careful in the future! Best wishes to you man.
Thanks for sharing and glad you survived.
For vehicles with two recovery points on the side being pulled, it makes sense to use a tree strap or short tow strap to make a bridle to split the forces between the two recovery points. This lowers the chance of failure of the recovery point which you were about to experience.
I learned the "recovery hierarchy" below from an expert - this makes a good checklist to think through before a recovery:
1) Minimal risk: Shovel, track building, vehicle prep (tire pressure lower, 4x4 low engaged, lockers on)
2) Reduced risk: Recovery boards
3) Low risk: Tow (zero kinetic) can still use a kinetic rope/strap, but just a pull. Energy limited by puller's traction.
4) Moderate risk: Winching
5) High risk: Snatch/Kinetic recovery = highest energy. Limit pulling driver to ~5 mph, can begin even slower.
Hearing your story has helped reinforce the idea that a kinetic recovery should be the last option. You should have confidence in the recovery points on both vehicles, as well as the equipment used.
Just to say iv had a soft shackle cut straight through a brand new 8t tow strap that was used as a bridle to connect to a snatch strap..
**Yes, the pull WAS somewhat excessive, and resulted (thankfully) in only a destroyed tail gate.. My bad, lesson learnt..
:)
@@tomhouston9985 wow. While the outcome was not good, it was probably better than having a metal recovery point disconnect from the frame. Personally, I wouldn't use a soft shackle to connect the main rope/strap to the bridle - would instead run bridle through the loop on the end of the main rope/strap. My bridle strap has a moveable sheath that would also be in the loop of the main strap, providing a little more protection to the bridle. All that said, I think you raise a great point - is the strap being used as a bridle really meant to have a concentrated load in the middle of the bridle? Maybe I need a purpose-built bridle strap instead of using an ARB 10 ft tree strap. Decision to use bridle probably depends on your confidence in the recovery points on the vehicle vs. the bridle.
Well seems you have a pondering mind..
I have put some thought to this failed recovery that could have killed me, -my upper tailgate was open, and had it recoiled 10” higher it would have been around my ears..!!
1, the stuck vehicle was in water and mud to just below its tray, and dropped neatly on its diffs snugly between a root step to the front, and over a submerged stump behind its rear diff unbeknown to us.. The rear diff had to be later raised over a foot to clear, pre retrying a winch recovery.. It was a powerlines track, thus no anchor trees for the winch vehicle that was just dragging despite utilising some ruts to try and help anchor it on the wet clay.. No tertiary vehicle available..
2, the tow strap was a long one, perhaps 30 foot, and I wonder if the tight angle at the connecting soft shackles point on that length as a doubled back bridle contributed..??
3, …and I’m sure of this one, -The pull was an excessive “one more, no more” last attempt.. I had been working it up, a bit harder each time, but that it hadn’t budged the stuck car should have been my warning to investigate the reasons why..!!
Deep down I knew better, but wasn’t looking forward to wallowing around in mud.. :(
So not exactly a gear failure, but I did find the weakest point..!!
Hope this helps..
Stay safe..
:)
Informative video. Perhaps the most dangerous "unknown" in these situations is whether the other person helping you is on the same page and will do what you expect him to do. Always a good idea to take your time, talk the whole thing through, and make sure they will be doing what you expect them to do. I always do this even if its something minor like another person helping lift something heavy by hand. So it's "you lift to waist height at that end, then we walk over to there with me going backwards, and then we slowly lower it together on my word." I almost had a finger severed many years ago because a heavy steel beam I was helping lift was lowered without warning. Lesson learned.
Thank you for sharing!
Glad you are ok!
You may have helped many of us.
I have definitely felt the sense of let’s hurry and get this unstuck before
Glad you are okay and thanks for sharing. It is always a good idea to be reminded to slow down. When you are on a trail, especially when there is a line, you feel the pressure to hurry up and get out of the way / get moving. But it is worth it to slow down, assess, come up with a plan and take your time. The worse-case scenario is far worse than just holding someone up for 20-30 minutes.
"Can you check to see if Im Trauma?"😮 Damn glad you lived to educate the rest of us
Yea that was interesting and exactly why I brought it up!
That part of the story is pretty ridiculous. The ER is supposed to do triage immediately and on the spot and not rely on how patient look like when they are brought in: stopped the bleeding vs bleeding. Having stopped the bleeding, one can still be a high risk of bleeding at any moment.
I put the responsibility on the nurse that brought you for the helicopter that should have related that profuse bleeding was stopped but could happen again until fully assessed not trauma.
Glad you are here to talk about this.
Thanks for sharing this story, I don't do much off roading, but plan to start hopefully next year.
I do watch about 4 UA-cam off road recovery channels and never seen this happen before except at Matt's off road games last year. In that case if I remember correctly the rope broke due to a too hard of a pull like what happened in your situation.
Glad that you're okay, definitely a learning experience and I will keep this information stored just in case I ever get into a similar situation.
Thanks again for sharing this and take care.
SO happy you are okay, thank you for sharing this vulnerable moment with the community.
Praise the Lord you are still with us brother. Glad for prepared people with first aid and quick response from emergency responders.
So thankful you are ok. God was definitely looking out for you that day. So glad you are sharing with others so they can learn from your experience as well. Be careful everyone!
Jacob......: ) Thank you for going over your experience and informing us of the poor choices that were made. The comments about taking time to slow down and assess the situation and to not be in a rush hits the hardest. Usually safety is the first thing to go when people are in a hurry. Stay safe and wheel hard
Glad you are here to tell your story! Good info in your video, really shows the importance of being prepared and knowing how to use your equipment.
Holy cow, glad you're OK. Slow down on the trail, recovery is part of the fun 💕🙏
Yea I don’t know why it was such a rush to get it unstuck.
Hi from Southern California I’m Megan-offroads mom. So thankful for the information. Appreciate the video glad you’re okay! Maybe I’ll get to meet you when I visit Megan. I drive a 2018 Rubicon.
I’ve experIenced a life threading off road incident myself, not a pull incident but it involved life flight and I even threw to flat lining incidents to give the flight nurse a run for her money.
Glad you’re still here. The biggest pain is yet to come unfortunately, which is when you start to get the bills.
Dang dude, what a story. Appreciate your talking about this, and hopefully it helps you process the trauma!
In the heat of the moment we must slow down and think. Awesome video, glad you survived.
Thanks for sharing your mishap story, glad you are ok. I came across your video while researching ropes and soft shackles and now I’m researching even more on who to spend my money with on what I hope to be just in case gear, as well as the safest methods using the gear.
Thanks for sharing Caleb… Some good points. I’m glad you’re safe and able to laugh about it now.
I dont think the evidence of the mostly undamaged sleeve is proof that the sharp edges of the mount didnt play into it. Those sleeves mostly just help against abrasion not limiting localized PRESSURE which can have a massive multiplier on the rope under the sleeve. There is a lot going on in this event and obviously the overly hard pull didnt help.
The problem is that when you used the oversized Kinetic rope, the rope becomes a tow strap, it won’t stretch to absorb the shock load and it will damage the recovery points, bumper or kill somebody.
Good point. I tried to measure from the video how much it stretched. Guesstimate is roughly 2 feet. Only thing I’ll never be 100 percent on is if shackle snapped before rope had finished stretching. I’m told 7/8 is better even though the one used was advertised for “up to 11,000 lbs”
Well, not only that, but you shouldn't use a Kinetic rope, regardless of size, when the rig is buried. He said he didn't realize that.....but that is a good rule of thumb. You are right, it created a shock load that nothing was designed for. I question the aftermarket bumper....that damage to the recovery point was insane. Not pointing fingers....but that should not be happening if the bumper was properly designed AND installed.
If it only stretched 2 feet it didnt stretch nearly 30% like you claimed the rope was capable of. You should watch projectfarms kinetic rope test on actual elasticity vs claims
Interesting. Certainly I have a oversized one and I thought it was good because it is "stronger" 🤔
@@pijama4wdstronger is not always better. See my comment about MaxTrax making a soft shackles designed to be the weakest link in a recovery system so it breaks first in the case of excessive forces. Like around 8000 lbs. It would have broken before so much tension built up in the kinetic rope and the soft shackle that broke. I say it would have more graciously relieved the built up tension before it became really dangerous.
Super appreciate you doing this video and sharing your experience!
Thank you for sharing, Caleb. What a sobering experience. Praise God you lived to tell about it and to share the experience with others.
almost an hour for a conversation that should have taken less than 10...
God is good , glad you’re safe
Be even better if this God you all thank stopped it happening in the first place😂
im glad you're ok man! thanks for sharing the story as it definitely makes us think harder about our own efforts!
the sheath probably did not receive much damage because it is not under tension from end to end like the soft shackle. the sharp edge of the clevis can still create a "peak stress" point on the soft shackle causing it to tear while leaving the sheath unscaved.
Props to this man for talking about his experience. I rarely cry, but I had a similar experience with bleeding out, and it's hard to talk about without losing it. Overall life changing experience. Glad you're okay man.
I don't think I would be so hard on the amazon shackle. It is good that it failed before the steel parts on the bumper and it took a lot of abuse before it failed. Do you think that you would have seen some of the damage if you had inspected your gear before the second pull. That is one of the biggest things I am going to take away from this. Also the communication. I will always have an extra radio to hand off to whoever comes along to pull with me.
Wow. I am glad you are ok. I am sharing this and hope our clubs can learn from this. After watching Paul Cox from FabRats last year at the wrecker games in Sand Hollow I saw the damage a broken soft shackle can do. If you haven't seen that video it was when they were pulling out the truck and trailer stuck in the sand. Very eye opening. I am going out now to make sure I have checked my recovery gear and make sure my first aid kit is up to snuff.
I am glad and happy that you are alive, the rest dont matter at all, thanks for sharing and we learn from another person mistakes, Im glad that you can tell us what happened and we learned to be careful to avoid a situation like this.....Thanks a lot ....
Glad you're OK. Thanks for sharing.
Back in the '70s my buddy had a trailer ball and a length of chain come back up and blast through the tailgate, smash the dash and land between the seats of a Jeep. I've always kept that in the back of my mind for my entire life. Scary stuff.
Thank you for making the video. It's packed with useful information and valuable lessons.
I'm not suprised you thought it was a lot more serious. I remember cutting my face on some glass many years ago and you would think someone had chopped my head off there was so much blood. Glad it wasn't your neck and you lived to tell the tale.
I’m pretty convinced that a crucial error was putting the soft shackle through the clevis instead of the d ring as well (but also could be the failure that saved the jeep), Chinese soft shackle + no d ring. I am very curious what the outcome of such a gnarly pull would’ve been with the kinetic rope or soft shackle straight to a d ring. Also a good reminder to always check your connection points between pulls, I know it will serve as one for me. Glad your okay man. That’s a crazy ass situation. Thanks for posting.
Caleb, humor is a powerful remedy! Keep going - glad you are on the road to complete recovery!
Thank you for making this video and doing a solid after-action review. I think this video will reduce recovery accidents by providing a real-world example of what could happen and ways to avoid trouble. Very well done.
This was clearly a very humbling moment for you. You never look at these situations the same way ever again, for me it was a motorcycle crash that slowed me way down in these situations. I have the same bumper and winch because of your previous videos, I've yet to use the winch and am somewhat terrified to use it actually. I've not bought any "cheap" gear, but I'd call my recovery bag a bit incomplete as it is. I'll be doing some deeper dives on this soon because of your video and rounding that bag out appropriately. If you know of anybody in SoCal who does instructional classes on using recovery gear, I'm all in.
Follow socaloffroad alliance we will be partnering with a local kinetic rope company in April for a course and it will be by registration
Glad you're OK buddy and you lived to tell the story and came home to your family. Sometimes we take for granted that our hobby is still dangerous and we need to slow down and take every precaution especially in recovery situations to reduce the risk. I'm glad you had some good perspective in retrospect and shared your experience for others to learn.
...also your lens cover was upside down the entire video.
Hahaha I fixed it
I had a very similar recovery failure in the summer of 2022 North of Truckee. Cheap soft shackle failure, but likely cut by poor Anchor point, while pulling with a kinetic rope. Except the rope end went through the rear window and totally shattered the rear window. The glass hit me in the back and side of the head like a shotgun. First aid administered from my first aid kit. But I stayed and did eventually get the vehicle out that I was recovering. Then off to the hospital to get the glass out of my scalp. In watching your video it brought back alot of memories. Just today I was cleaning out my Wrangler and found more glass. Never fails even almost two years latter and still finding glass in my rig. I am now apprehensive of the kinetic ropes. You are putting alot of energy in them and when something fails that energy releases with incredible speed and impact. I actually just used it again for the first time again in nearly two years last week. Thanks for making the video, it is topic that does need to be discussed and shared.
When it comes to safety, I'm sure people can find time to watch it. Watched it from beginning to end! Thanks God you're alive and well! Very useful information, and big reminder for all of us offroaders!
This is scary. So glad you are ok. I’ve seen several kinetic recovery failures on the internet and the kinetic rope immediately lost its energy and fell to the ground. That would have been my assumption if I ever had to use it. Thank you for sharing your experience.
This video is changing everything for me. Thank you for sharing your unfortunate learning experience.
Glad you are safe!!!!. Recoveries should never be rushed!!! Take care of yourself my friend.
Came here to learn more about your experience after your interview with Matt. Glad you’re ok. That was gnarly.
this is a good message. i'm glad you're ok and using that event to educate/awareness
Thank you for sharing your scary experience and the details of what happen. It certainly gave me alot to think about. Good tip about having the emergency kit accessible and visible to all.
Lots to take in here and so much to consider! Thank you for sharing and so glad you're OK! I've had a bad accident (bike) where panic and jumping to worst case in my mind had me in the same mind set....good to slow down there too and let others give aid, check you out and not let emotions take over. Really hard to do when you're bleeding profusely haha I know. My takeaway on the recovery for my own setup to look over...bumper rated for maybe 40K#, for safety assume closer to 35K# and step down everything from there in # ratings: bumper 35K#>shackle 30k#>rope30k#. The 7/8 may have also given proper stretch too for the energy needed for the weight of lightest vehicle. Last, I wouldn't bet my life on repeaters, no guarantee of a competent person on the other end...the safe bet is a satellite device (Garmin, Spot, Motorola Defy)
Hey man, I just came here to say i'm sorry this happened to you and i'm so happy you're ok. You have a long, amazing life ahead of you. Enjoy it.
It’s so great for your family that you’re here to talk about this.
Glad you're still with us mate.
Happy wheeling & be safe
Massive lesson for me from this: proper initial and extended injury assessment, and combating adrenaline. I work in Wildland Fire, and have been the medic for my crew, with a few medical responses of life threatening injuries. I knew the second you said you felt the blood dripping and trickling, I knew you didn't cut your artery and from that at least, it wasn't life threatening (not meaning to armchair) However, I too was convinced you had at least slashed something enough to bleed pretty well. We (like you) are trained to control our emotional response. We train with those closest to us, to trigger an emotional response to learn to curb it. Had you not been able to get a medivac, it's entirely possible with the elevated adrenaline (yourself and others), you could have put yourself into shock...which would have been life threatening given the location, weather, fatigue, time etc. I can't thank you enough for putting this extended video together and being willing to let us all learn from your horrible experience. I am deeply greatful for your super awesome and massively prepared crew!!!!
Jeezus.... Truly frightening. Glad you're still here to share the experience.
the lonely overlander
Great video! Glad you are alright, and very informative about what to use and be safe!
thanks for the warning sir and this was a learning experience I hope and pray you recover fully and your vehicle gets repaired.
Glad you're ok and nice that you're willing to share all the details. Carry on.
Angel watching for you! Being involved in your faith, your story happens far to many times were outcomes are worse and some better. Thank you for making others aware! Thank you for your time!
Glad you’re alright, man. Coincidentally, you’re the same age I was when I broke my neck mountain biking. So glad it wasn’t worse for you
Very well done for sharing this, Caleb. Lots of lessons.
A few comments: If you use soft shackles incorrectly, it doesn't matter where they are made. A winch blanket would have prevented any injury -- they work extremely well, that's why people use them. Here's my takeaway from this video: 1. Don't use soft shackles on sharp points. 2. Always use a blanket, jacket or even a floor mat on a line that like -- it will absorb a massive amount of force. 3. Use a winch, not yanking. 4. Use equipment rated for the forces at play: The ratings are equipment are static loads. You take a 5,000lb jeep traveling at say 15mph -- that likely exceeded the force rated on the shackle and rope. Heck, it nearly ripped the mount point out of the vehicle. This is why using a winch is far smarter than "yank and pray" methods - you can apply a predictable amount of force. This is why the pros use winches (and recovery pullies) and don't use kinetic ropes of death. Huge list of mistakes here, but "not make in America" wasn't one of them.
Super happy this all had a good ending.
After reading all the comments from the experts it’s sad to see that people want to focus on blame rather than prevention.
All your points addressed most of the concerns imo.
This is my biggest fear from helping people.
Not only you but that poor guy probably feels horrible after all this.
Like you said.
Take your time and over do it. Double strap or just winch out. No shame on that.
Good video sir. Hopefully I’ll see you on the trail soon. Hopefully this doesn’t stop you from going out and having a good time.
I’m not reading most of the comments but saw yours. Thanks!
Thanks for sharing this harrowing experience so that others can avoid it. As you stated, it’s important to slow down and avoid the urge to rush or cut corners. God bless!
Best Video ever to show the risks of recovery.
Glad to hear you are o.k.
Being Firefighter and Paramedic with recovery experience i thank you for sharing this experience.
Hope it will spread out and hit the rushing recovery noobs.
Glad your ok, thank you for sharing about do's and don't of recovery. Godspeed!🥰🇨🇦
Thank you for sharing this story. I'm so glad you are OK now. I've been off roading for almost 50 years. Honestly I don't get involved in recoveries with people I don't know anymore, unless I am in COMPLETE control of the actions and situation.. If possible, I put my buddy in the other vehicle. If the other party has any issue with that, we go our own ways. It's not a negotiation. If they deviate at all from my instructions, then I'm getting out and unhooking. They can call a professional recovery service. The reason for this is that I have come close to disaster way too many times because of the stupid actions of other people. 95% of the time it isn't even me that is in need of help. This sounds bad I guess, but this is where I'm at. It sounds like mistakes were made with the attachments, but what in the hell was jeep dude thinking? Why did he see the need to accelerate with such force? The whole point of using a kinetic rope is to soften that jolt and deliver the energy over an extended period of time. He severely over pulled that rope. For one thing, he got way too long of a run at it. He should have snugged the rope and then backed up maybe 3 or 4 feet. No more. This recovery was totally botched by the jeep.
Glad you’re ok thanks for taking the time and telling your story!! I’m sure a lot of us including me learn a lot from you!! Seen comments to put hood up!!! Thanks again noted to self don’t buy Amazon recovery equipment 😊
First, I’m very happy you’re ok. Secondly, thank you for going into detail about this incident. Thirdly…You’ve shown several things that played into the failure. Something to evaluate and teach others.
Just subscribed. Glad you’re alive to talk about this scary experience.
First and foremost, glad you are ok.
Second, thank you for putting this information out. Takes a lot to say that you may have done things wrong. Kudos to that.