I thought the mistletoe wasn’t even asked to spare Baldur because Freya saw mistletoe as so harmless that it couldn’t harm Baldur even if it wanted to.
There are different variations to this story. The varied oral tradition of norse mythology means that there's not really a set canon, it's what makes these stories so frustrating to study and yet so beautiful in their transience at the same time.
Mistletoe has no branch to make weapons from. That’s why it wasn’t asked to swear an oath. That gives it a secondary meaning that even something harmless can kill.
"It's like the *worst* version of Cinderalla" is an absolutely darling turn of phrase, Dael, well played. "Jesus has become pretty freaking famous", out-of-context is a very fun statement as well.
I remember before I played Supergiant Games’ Hades, I listened to the whole soundtrack, so I heard the Orphic story singing about how Zagreus and Dionysus were the same god born as Zagreus the serpent killed by the titans and Dionysus formed from his heart
Glad to see the reincorporation of my favourite Kingsmill thesis: The PATH (Purpose, Authority, Treachery, Harbour) story! Thanks for posting this Dael!
A thing I found interesting and how I like to interpret it, is that for the majority of the Matrix part of the reason it was uncertain if Neo was the one is that the Oracle told Neo, and by extension the audience, that he isn't the One. But Trinity was told she will fall in love with a dead man and that man would be the One. Therefore, there is potential for Neo to just not at all be the One at all and it is because Trinity had fallen in love with him that he then becomes the One. So although it isn't necessarily wholly one's decision who they fall in love with, it felt to me that Trinity was the one who ultimately got to choose the One, in a roundabout way. Admittedly I haven't seen the movie in a while so I'm probably misremembering stuff.
The Neo that died wasn't the One. The Neo that Trinity brought back was the One. I never saw Trinity as an Isis-like figure before but it seems to fit. Nice observation!
"you have the gift but looks like you waiting for something .... your next life maybe " the Oracle telling him he not the one she dose also say "one of you is going to die morpheus or you" what choise he make was up to him i always saw it as her knowing he was going to die after choise to save morpheus and his next life he could be "the one" because of the choise he made blar blar do we even have free will or are a actions predetermined blar blar dose the telling of a prophecy make it more or less like to happen is the job of a Oracle not to tell the future but to tell the future that you will do something about
With the context of the matrix being directed by two trans women, one could definitely take some of those lines as a sort of death-and-rebirth interpretation of transness
As someone who was raised catholic and has a big fascination with mythology and storytelling, hearing Egyptian, greek, norse and christian stories all in one breath (equally described) really shifted something into perspective that I’ve been thinking over for a while now. I can’t even tell what exactly that is, but something about my personal definition of mythology and fairytales always felt wrong when compared to biblical texts.
I really enjoy that I can basically say I attend lectures because the vibes between lecture video and normal video are the same. P.S. Once again Dael's hair looks immaculate on both sections.
I remember Baldur's story different. Frig didn't just freak out, Baldur kept having the nightmares, and he basically begged Frig to make everything promise not to harm him. edit: it wasn't just any old mistletoe plant, it was one specific sprig of mistletoe that frig sort of didnt notice or worry about.
Ya know, the whole feeding your children to the gods also pops up in the Bible with Abraham and Isaac, where god stops him just in time and says, um actually just that sheep over there will do fine, thanks.
I often wonder if Hel was 'a hardarse' about Baldur because she wanted to keep the hottest, nicest, most wonderful god of them all in her realm. By all accounts it needed brightening up a little.
Cernunnos is a funny one; I've heard from people who study Gaulish mythology specifically who get annoyed at how widely the idea of him is applied, not because the imagery from other cultures isn't likely connected, but because it's usually assumed he was a nature god when more recent research indicates he seems to have actually been primarily a trade and wealth god.
Mind you, Obi Wan’s ghost pretty much perfectly reflects the traditional dying/resurrected god. That is, to be fair, a reference older than Buffy or the Matrix though.
Is there a reason I shouldn't be emailing this to my gran? (They're actually both dead, so I've just been printing transcripts and jamming them into their oft exhumed coffins, but I assume that's an acceptable alternative).
Imagine being in ancient greece, trying to impress a pretty girl but you can't tell her that you're an astronaut because they haven't been invented yet so you tell her you're Zeus instead.
Very interesting analyse. And hey, I might start watching Buffy because of you. Somehow I wasn't in my younger days. And thnaks for using on of the best musicals ^^
@@kryptonianguest1903 At least season 1 is short. The show also pulls off the Star Trek the Next Generation trick where bad early season episodes get follow-ups in later seasons that are really good.
That was a phenomenal video! I would love to see more of these patterns in mythology and story telling but I do know its a lot of work to make these long form videos. One trope I've been looking at is the all powerful yet flawed hero. This would be character like Samson from the Bible, Hercules in Greek mythology, and Cu Chuliann in Irish mythology. These heroes who have phenomenal power but they break the laws and customs of their culture. For Cu Chuliann its when he kills his cousin (sometime brother) and his son. In Irish law the greatest sin is to kill a member of your own family. If there is any extra readings about this sort of analysis I would love to hear it.
While we can't find an "original" and levels of authenricity for ancient myths are dubious at best, I wish more accknowledge what contexts we have for the versions that survive. All surviving texts about Ragnarok are from after introduction of Christianity. It doesn't make them less authentic, but it provides context. The gospels provide different accounts in the bible. Osiris seemingly has a slightly different role at different times in ancient Egypt. And so on. and so on. Understanding how stories have shifted, travelled, and evolved is facinating!
Wonderful video, as always. Regarding the shift of the way these stories are told: I wonder if there's a parallel to be drawn between these modern characters who continue on after resurrection and the Buddha attaining enlightenment and then continuing on to teach in order to help others attain Nirvana.
I feel like talking about stories as separate from their use or purpose is to miss a big part of the picture. Like, it is hardly surprising that societies run by powerful men would have a lot of stories about the big bad hot young women who "made them" do bad things. "Chosen One" narratives are a great way to keep people in their place. Death is a massive source of anxiety so "selling" power over death is a great way to get people to join your cult. A lot of what we see as stories are narratives of manipulation and control. They have intention. They are trying to get people to do something or feel a certain way. Of course there would be uncanny similarities. People are people. We're not that different. It doesn't matter where, or when you are from, we're all susceptible to manipulation in the same way. These motifs reoccur because they *work*. Also when people revisit myth in popular culture they, reframe them into the current timeframe so that they make sense, and them people see them and go "oh wow it's like it was written for today" because it was. Written for today.
The video is fun as always but I definitely felt like there were some things I kinda missed. After a little research, it seems the motif of a god who dies and returns to life is strongly associated with the near East, with Greece, Egypt, Sumeria, Judea, and Scandinavia yielding the stories in question. I couldn't find any stories in Asia, the Americas, or Sub-Saharan Africa that hit the same tropes. Out of that list, Scandinavia is the wild card, but some scholars seem to believe that Balder's resurrection (or even all of Ragnarok) may have been inspired by Christianity due to its resemblance to Revelations and Genesis. If that's true, the motif of a dying and raising god seems even more heavily localized to the eastern Mediterranean. I also think it's wild that you didn't really address the influence of Christianity on the modern incarnation of this trope. The other stories on the list are barely footnotes compared to the Bible, which is the most influential book of all time and has a dying and raising god as its most central idea. If we look at modern examples, Gandalf and Aslan are both very famous divine characters who die and are resurrected - both of them were written with Christianity in mind (Aslan very clearly, Gandalf more subtly). Harry Potter's self-sacrifice in the Deathly Hallows very strongly resembles Jesus's crucifixion, but doesn't resemble the other four examples at all. Lastly, I think it's worth noting that the two modern-day examples you showed here (plus Harry Potter) are chosen ones - they have to die (and be reborn) for the greater good. None of the other stories have that theme - except for Christianity. So this shows an evolution of the motif in a sense, but it also just reinforces that these modern sources are definitely not drawing interpretation from Osiris or Dionysus. Anyways, those were just some of my thoughts. It was an interesting lecture!
I wonder if cultures in area without a strong seasonal cycle aka tropical areas have myths about the undying god. It feels like those stories are influenced by the observation of the Earth dying in winter or the dry season and coming back in the spring.
interesting you complained everything recently have been reboots while talking about stories from our past turning up again and again. it may have been a throw away comment but....prime Dael material. :)
Great essay! The funniest thing about the Jesus story is how God reveals his 'plan'. God: "your sins are so great that I'm no longer satisfied with animal and human sacrifices! To pay for everything, I demand the blood sacrifice of a half human half god child! Ok so...um... I made a stipulation you cannot possibly fulfill. So here, I will create him myself!!! Here is my half god half human child!!!!" (Btw, God reveals all this AFTER THE FACT!) Like... hey... remember Jesus who died? And people went... 'well kind of... wasn't that 150 years ago?" God's prophet : "yeah... but see, the good news is... he paid for all our sins!!! Forever!"
I’m curious about your point at the end that modern death/resurrection story shapes have changed to have a return to normalcy in some way. I wonder (1) What reasons there might be for this change, and (2) Are there different changes that we could/want to make to this and other “story shapes.”
Well gods had to leave earth in the past as a reason why they weren’t here walking around. In our new era where we basically accept more or less that the stories are just stories we don’t need that distance. The characters can just BE at the end because we don’t need the justification of why they’re not here with us.
@@SethRGray I think that’s a very fair point! I also wonder with examples like Buffy, Neo, Superman, etc. if part of the reason there’s a sort of return to the “status quo” in some ways is because of HOW we tell stories (or at least these ones) now: through media and businesses which benefit from being ongoing rather than having definitive stopping points.
Well in the Christian version of this motif, Jesus is a "chosen one." He has to die and come back to fulfill a prophecy. So in western media, it's become common for chosen ones to have to die and come back in the course of fulfilling their prophecy. But chosen ones are usually human. So if they die, come back to life, and then ascend to heaven... well, that's a pretty bittersweet ending. Ultimately they just end up "dead" and the resurrection changes nothing. So instead, just give them a "happily ever after." So yeah, I think it has more to do with applying the trope to people instead of gods, than anything else.
So Osiris = Ken doll. P.S. I wonder if myths transform in the retellings a la "Chinese whispers" aka telephone game aka transmission chain experiments?
I really enjoy how the Jesus story is so boring compared to the absolute ridiculous tales before it. If we still saw the underworld as ruled by a dude whose penis was chucked into a river and devoured by crocodiles, I'm pretty sure the world would be better.
In the video you say that the myth of The Undying God is global but at least the examples you gave don't seem global to me. Three of them are from around the Mediterranean and the other is from Scandinavia. None of them are from Asia, The Americas, Sub-Saharan Africa, or Oceania. Are there versions of that story structure that originate from other parts of the ancient world?
Seems like the answer is no, at least according to Wikipedia. A god dying and then coming back to life is strongly associated with the near East. (Wikipedia lists seven examples of the motif: three Greek, one Egyptian, one Sumerian, one Scandinavian, and one Jesus) And it's worth mentioning that the resurrection of Balder is kinda considered fishy, since the ending so strongly resembles Genesis. Some people even think that Ragnarok was entirely a Christian addition. So if you discount Balder - them every example is from the Eastern Mediterranean. Also, I think it's kinda insane how Dael just lumped in Jesus with the other three examples. Like yeah, Norse and Greek myth is pretty impactful in western culture, but the Bible is the most printed book of all time! When you're looking at modern examples, the Bible in so influential in the death and resurrection motif that the other three examples become footnotes.
I have always heard that it was Osiris's shoulder that was missing. Just like Pelops. It annoys me that that is apparently a bowdlerized version of the story, because I thought it was very significant that the Greek story so closely copied the Egyptian story.
I fell asleep during this. It is not your fault, I didn't sleep well the last few nights. I can't help but feel, given the material, that I was ensorcelled by a femme fatal using her charms and ancient stories of power. [Hope that isn't too creepy ; )]
The aesir turning Baldr's invincibility into a party game has always been funny to me.
It's a funny and harmless game, until suddenly, it isn't, and everyone feels pretty dumb about it.
Sure, it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye
Oh wait, that was Odin
I thought the mistletoe wasn’t even asked to spare Baldur because Freya saw mistletoe as so harmless that it couldn’t harm Baldur even if it wanted to.
There are different variations to this story. The varied oral tradition of norse mythology means that there's not really a set canon, it's what makes these stories so frustrating to study and yet so beautiful in their transience at the same time.
Dr. Jackson Crawford often relates a version where Frigg doesn't ask the mistletoe because it's too young to swear an oath.
I think this is just an example of variation of the story
Mistletoe has no branch to make weapons from. That’s why it wasn’t asked to swear an oath.
That gives it a secondary meaning that even something harmless can kill.
"It's like the *worst* version of Cinderalla" is an absolutely darling turn of phrase, Dael, well played.
"Jesus has become pretty freaking famous", out-of-context is a very fun statement as well.
He was almost as popular as The Beatles!
People know of this first century carpenter guy but might not know Critical Role?
@@KBTibbs "First Century Carpenter Guy" as a dismissive of Jesus has *layers* to it. Nice.
But wait! Something is... unresolved. Shouldn't I be emailing this to my grandma?! And those poor college students' grandmas!!
La belle damme sans merci - the beautiful lady who never says thank you.
I remember before I played Supergiant Games’ Hades, I listened to the whole soundtrack, so I heard the Orphic story singing about how Zagreus and Dionysus were the same god born as Zagreus the serpent killed by the titans and Dionysus formed from his heart
Glad to see the reincorporation of my favourite Kingsmill thesis: The PATH (Purpose, Authority, Treachery, Harbour) story! Thanks for posting this Dael!
"Not my fault the last 10 years have all been reboots" - Dael coming for Hollywood
I'm a HUGE fan of you doing your old lectures on youtube.
This one was wonderful. Like a 40 minute trope talk.
I love that Snorri Sturluson is still getting citations a millennia (give or take) after his death. Immortality via discussing immortality.
I love that you present your lectures in exactly the same style as your youtube videos. That must improve the days of a lot of students!
A thing I found interesting and how I like to interpret it, is that for the majority of the Matrix part of the reason it was uncertain if Neo was the one is that the Oracle told Neo, and by extension the audience, that he isn't the One. But Trinity was told she will fall in love with a dead man and that man would be the One. Therefore, there is potential for Neo to just not at all be the One at all and it is because Trinity had fallen in love with him that he then becomes the One. So although it isn't necessarily wholly one's decision who they fall in love with, it felt to me that Trinity was the one who ultimately got to choose the One, in a roundabout way.
Admittedly I haven't seen the movie in a while so I'm probably misremembering stuff.
Watch the new movie with that in mind and the ending verifies it
The Neo that died wasn't the One. The Neo that Trinity brought back was the One. I never saw Trinity as an Isis-like figure before but it seems to fit. Nice observation!
"you have the gift but looks like you waiting for something .... your next life maybe " the Oracle telling him he not the one
she dose also say "one of you is going to die morpheus or you" what choise he make was up to him
i always saw it as her knowing he was going to die after choise to save morpheus and his next life he could be "the one" because of the choise he made
blar blar do we even have free will or are a actions predetermined blar blar dose the telling of a prophecy make it more or less like to happen is the job of a Oracle not to tell the future but to tell the future that you will do something about
@@rodgersvalkyrie2379 yes! that was one of the things I enjoyed about the new movie.
With the context of the matrix being directed by two trans women, one could definitely take some of those lines as a sort of death-and-rebirth interpretation of transness
Professor Kingsmill! Huzzah! So glad to see more stuff getting put up on this channel.
As someone who was raised catholic and has a big fascination with mythology and storytelling, hearing Egyptian, greek, norse and christian stories all in one breath (equally described) really shifted something into perspective that I’ve been thinking over for a while now. I can’t even tell what exactly that is, but something about my personal definition of mythology and fairytales always felt wrong when compared to biblical texts.
Gee thanks Kingsmill... I forgot to email this to my grandma. I'm out of the will.
I really enjoy that I can basically say I attend lectures because the vibes between lecture video and normal video are the same.
P.S. Once again Dael's hair looks immaculate on both sections.
25:59 Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Clever, articulate, interesting ideas. Subscribed.
Literate, entertaining, bewildering. Reminds me of Christopher Illopoly. ;)
There was a distinct lack of Dael in this week's Ghostfire podcast. This makes up for it.
I loved that you used the JCSS clip, especially the 73 version.
I remember Baldur's story different. Frig didn't just freak out, Baldur kept having the nightmares, and he basically begged Frig to make everything promise not to harm him.
edit:
it wasn't just any old mistletoe plant, it was one specific sprig of mistletoe that frig sort of didnt notice or worry about.
Ya know, the whole feeding your children to the gods also pops up in the Bible with Abraham and Isaac, where god stops him just in time and says, um actually just that sheep over there will do fine, thanks.
Daels American accent is crazy good, but *just* off enough to me that it actually registers in the uncanny valley lmao
Great video/accent!
I often wonder if Hel was 'a hardarse' about Baldur because she wanted to keep the hottest, nicest, most wonderful god of them all in her realm. By all accounts it needed brightening up a little.
Her daddy (Loki) did some matchmaking
He might have been a trickster on other occasions, but here he was just being a good dad.
Cernunnos is a funny one; I've heard from people who study Gaulish mythology specifically who get annoyed at how widely the idea of him is applied, not because the imagery from other cultures isn't likely connected, but because it's usually assumed he was a nature god when more recent research indicates he seems to have actually been primarily a trade and wealth god.
Mind you, Obi Wan’s ghost pretty much perfectly reflects the traditional dying/resurrected god. That is, to be fair, a reference older than Buffy or the Matrix though.
Is there a reason I shouldn't be emailing this to my gran? (They're actually both dead, so I've just been printing transcripts and jamming them into their oft exhumed coffins, but I assume that's an acceptable alternative).
Imagine being in ancient greece, trying to impress a pretty girl but you can't tell her that you're an astronaut because they haven't been invented yet so you tell her you're Zeus instead.
I'm sorry Dionysus get's torn apart as a child and put back together but still needs to "Conquer" death despite already coming back from it.
Now I don't know what to do... usually she asks me to e-mail this to my grandmother, now she just walks out of frame.
Very interesting analyse. And hey, I might start watching Buffy because of you. Somehow I wasn't in my younger days. And thnaks for using on of the best musicals ^^
Btw, the episode shown in this video is when Buffy starts getting really good. The rest of season one has its moments but is a bit rough over all.
@@kryptonianguest1903 At least season 1 is short. The show also pulls off the Star Trek the Next Generation trick where bad early season episodes get follow-ups in later seasons that are really good.
That was a phenomenal video! I would love to see more of these patterns in mythology and story telling but I do know its a lot of work to make these long form videos. One trope I've been looking at is the all powerful yet flawed hero. This would be character like Samson from the Bible, Hercules in Greek mythology, and Cu Chuliann in Irish mythology. These heroes who have phenomenal power but they break the laws and customs of their culture. For Cu Chuliann its when he kills his cousin (sometime brother) and his son. In Irish law the greatest sin is to kill a member of your own family. If there is any extra readings about this sort of analysis I would love to hear it.
While we can't find an "original" and levels of authenricity for ancient myths are dubious at best, I wish more accknowledge what contexts we have for the versions that survive. All surviving texts about Ragnarok are from after introduction of Christianity. It doesn't make them less authentic, but it provides context. The gospels provide different accounts in the bible. Osiris seemingly has a slightly different role at different times in ancient Egypt. And so on. and so on. Understanding how stories have shifted, travelled, and evolved is facinating!
Who are thee: where the goodbye "Sneding to your grandma"? Where the post-credit scene! Anyhow thanks for the lecture was a lot of fun.
I adore your style of story telling! Thank you for sharing!
Wonderful video, as always.
Regarding the shift of the way these stories are told: I wonder if there's a parallel to be drawn between these modern characters who continue on after resurrection and the Buddha attaining enlightenment and then continuing on to teach in order to help others attain Nirvana.
This was lovely to watch, I've been missing the more regular Dael content.
Thanks for sharing! I thoroughly enjoyed extended storytime Dale
I'd add Obi Wan Kenobi from Star Wars, and Gandalf from LotR. Good vid.
Dael if you haven't read TOP TEN by Alan Moore...well you should. At least up to Issue Seven. :D
I got the Critical Role reference, Dael.
This was really amazing!! Please post more things like this if you have any
Thanks for sharing with us this great work!
I can't believe Seth got Osiris with an Enigma At Amigara Fault coffin
I would argue Fjord seduced Avantika not the other way around
I feel like talking about stories as separate from their use or purpose is to miss a big part of the picture. Like, it is hardly surprising that societies run by powerful men would have a lot of stories about the big bad hot young women who "made them" do bad things. "Chosen One" narratives are a great way to keep people in their place. Death is a massive source of anxiety so "selling" power over death is a great way to get people to join your cult. A lot of what we see as stories are narratives of manipulation and control. They have intention. They are trying to get people to do something or feel a certain way. Of course there would be uncanny similarities. People are people. We're not that different. It doesn't matter where, or when you are from, we're all susceptible to manipulation in the same way. These motifs reoccur because they *work*.
Also when people revisit myth in popular culture they, reframe them into the current timeframe so that they make sense, and them people see them and go "oh wow it's like it was written for today" because it was. Written for today.
So brilliant. 😁 Thank you for sharing this, Dael.
14:34 "Doubting Thomas!" Feels targeted, but I'll allow it.
Love this. Would take one every week
Always love these lectures.
7:40, so who else just realized why we call things "unfathomable"?
This is a really interesting video, and I would like to see more of this. Hopefully I'm not the only one with this opinion
Really enjoyed this one! Thank you for the lecture!
i would have love to that kind of lecture when I was younger .... !!!
"Not my fault the last decade has all been reboots" nice little burn
fascinating stuff!
thank you for uploading
This Just In: Zeus (yet again)
Dael Your depth of field effect is going abit crazy :O
Pretty cool👍
I actually hadn't catched on, that Buffy is in a way a messianic / reviving deity type character.
I really did enjoyed the lecture!!! Great topic!
wait, but you didnt tell your students to email this lecture to their grandmothers at the end
my grandma would have loved this!!!
Would that all of my university lectures were so delightful :D Art history would have been way more interesting and engaging!
The video is fun as always but I definitely felt like there were some things I kinda missed.
After a little research, it seems the motif of a god who dies and returns to life is strongly associated with the near East, with Greece, Egypt, Sumeria, Judea, and Scandinavia yielding the stories in question. I couldn't find any stories in Asia, the Americas, or Sub-Saharan Africa that hit the same tropes.
Out of that list, Scandinavia is the wild card, but some scholars seem to believe that Balder's resurrection (or even all of Ragnarok) may have been inspired by Christianity due to its resemblance to Revelations and Genesis. If that's true, the motif of a dying and raising god seems even more heavily localized to the eastern Mediterranean.
I also think it's wild that you didn't really address the influence of Christianity on the modern incarnation of this trope. The other stories on the list are barely footnotes compared to the Bible, which is the most influential book of all time and has a dying and raising god as its most central idea.
If we look at modern examples, Gandalf and Aslan are both very famous divine characters who die and are resurrected - both of them were written with Christianity in mind (Aslan very clearly, Gandalf more subtly). Harry Potter's self-sacrifice in the Deathly Hallows very strongly resembles Jesus's crucifixion, but doesn't resemble the other four examples at all.
Lastly, I think it's worth noting that the two modern-day examples you showed here (plus Harry Potter) are chosen ones - they have to die (and be reborn) for the greater good. None of the other stories have that theme - except for Christianity. So this shows an evolution of the motif in a sense, but it also just reinforces that these modern sources are definitely not drawing interpretation from Osiris or Dionysus.
Anyways, those were just some of my thoughts. It was an interesting lecture!
I wonder if cultures in area without a strong seasonal cycle aka tropical areas have myths about the undying god. It feels like those stories are influenced by the observation of the Earth dying in winter or the dry season and coming back in the spring.
Well done!
interesting you complained everything recently have been reboots while talking about stories from our past turning up again and again. it may have been a throw away comment but....prime Dael material. :)
"It's not my fault that the last ten years have all been reboots."
TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUE
!@#$% !@#$% !@#$%
Great essay!
The funniest thing about the Jesus story is how God reveals his 'plan'.
God: "your sins are so great that I'm no longer satisfied with animal and human sacrifices!
To pay for everything, I demand the blood sacrifice of a half human half god child!
Ok so...um... I made a stipulation you cannot possibly fulfill.
So here, I will create him myself!!!
Here is my half god half human child!!!!"
(Btw, God reveals all this AFTER THE FACT!)
Like... hey... remember Jesus who died?
And people went... 'well kind of... wasn't that 150 years ago?"
God's prophet : "yeah... but see, the good news is... he paid for all our sins!!! Forever!"
I’m curious about your point at the end that modern death/resurrection story shapes have changed to have a return to normalcy in some way. I wonder (1) What reasons there might be for this change, and (2) Are there different changes that we could/want to make to this and other “story shapes.”
Well gods had to leave earth in the past as a reason why they weren’t here walking around. In our new era where we basically accept more or less that the stories are just stories we don’t need that distance. The characters can just BE at the end because we don’t need the justification of why they’re not here with us.
@@SethRGray I think that’s a very fair point! I also wonder with examples like Buffy, Neo, Superman, etc. if part of the reason there’s a sort of return to the “status quo” in some ways is because of HOW we tell stories (or at least these ones) now: through media and businesses which benefit from being ongoing rather than having definitive stopping points.
Well in the Christian version of this motif, Jesus is a "chosen one." He has to die and come back to fulfill a prophecy. So in western media, it's become common for chosen ones to have to die and come back in the course of fulfilling their prophecy.
But chosen ones are usually human. So if they die, come back to life, and then ascend to heaven... well, that's a pretty bittersweet ending. Ultimately they just end up "dead" and the resurrection changes nothing. So instead, just give them a "happily ever after."
So yeah, I think it has more to do with applying the trope to people instead of gods, than anything else.
Of all things to comment on I think fjord seduced her more than she seduced him, but she does give off that femme fatale energy
This is really cool!
Ooooh getting back to regular uploads?
So Osiris = Ken doll.
P.S. I wonder if myths transform in the retellings a la "Chinese whispers" aka telephone game aka transmission chain experiments?
41:40 "Aw yiss"
If they said Jesus was a banging singer in the Bible I might have paid attention at Sunday School.
the Eucharist is the chopped up body and blood of The Son... whose getting thrown into Tartarus for that blunder?
I really enjoy how the Jesus story is so boring compared to the absolute ridiculous tales before it. If we still saw the underworld as ruled by a dude whose penis was chucked into a river and devoured by crocodiles, I'm pretty sure the world would be better.
So, if I understand, what you’re saying is basically: That is not dead which can eternal lie? And with strange aeons even death may die?
1.Fantastic. 2. You are not old. You're sooo young. 3. Wonder if all these reboots are reminiscent of the mimesis of myths of old...
In the video you say that the myth of The Undying God is global but at least the examples you gave don't seem global to me. Three of them are from around the Mediterranean and the other is from Scandinavia. None of them are from Asia, The Americas, Sub-Saharan Africa, or Oceania. Are there versions of that story structure that originate from other parts of the ancient world?
Seems like the answer is no, at least according to Wikipedia. A god dying and then coming back to life is strongly associated with the near East. (Wikipedia lists seven examples of the motif: three Greek, one Egyptian, one Sumerian, one Scandinavian, and one Jesus)
And it's worth mentioning that the resurrection of Balder is kinda considered fishy, since the ending so strongly resembles Genesis. Some people even think that Ragnarok was entirely a Christian addition. So if you discount Balder - them every example is from the Eastern Mediterranean.
Also, I think it's kinda insane how Dael just lumped in Jesus with the other three examples. Like yeah, Norse and Greek myth is pretty impactful in western culture, but the Bible is the most printed book of all time! When you're looking at modern examples, the Bible in so influential in the death and resurrection motif that the other three examples become footnotes.
So not emailing this to grandma, check!
HUZZAH! I haven't even watched the video yet, but comments help right?
But... am I suppose to send this to my grandma?
They're all reboots! Isn't that part of the point?
Let’s goooo
dammit now I have to watch Jesus Christ Superstar again.
I say, do it. No worries.
Who was Rhea to Hera? Weren’t Zeus and Hera siblings?
Rhea was Zeus and Hera's mother. And yes they were siblings. And married
@@shangc2781 yeah, that's what I thought too. Gosh, it's a been years since I read greek mythology.
Dael!
Baldur the Awesome.
Ball Dur the ballsy.
Undying men and untrustworthy women... we really need less patriarchal motifs in our media.
I have always heard that it was Osiris's shoulder that was missing. Just like Pelops. It annoys me that that is apparently a bowdlerized version of the story, because I thought it was very significant that the Greek story so closely copied the Egyptian story.
The Bible never actually mentions what the fruit was that Adam and Eve ate.
✌
What!? Twice in a row you promptly put a video on Patreon. Okay. Who are you, and what have you done to the real Dael?
I fell asleep during this. It is not your fault, I didn't sleep well the last few nights. I can't help but feel, given the material, that I was ensorcelled by a femme fatal using her charms and ancient stories of power. [Hope that isn't too creepy ; )]
wAAAAAAAAA should I die
She knows the original meaning!!!
I didnt know/im pretty sure its rare to know the original meaning.=meme.
Sounds like a whole lot of rapists were blaming the women tbey victimized. Where have i heard that before...
Yes and Christ is still famous today as even some here belive in him and his word.
Also that rock star film is uhhh so bad try the passion instead
The kicking/flying dawfs is funny/not in real life,getting actuelly hert.