Good talk, as always. :) To the younger people out there that may be reading this, I want to double on this point: Do not allow yourselves to fall into trap of social media and do not give other people power over your ideas. If I would have looked at my number of likes, I would've stopped doing art (or whatever else I'm doing) the moment I started it. We have got this false image that if we don't get tens or hundreds of reactions, our work is not good / we are useless. If we can truly influence ONE person's life in a day, I'd say it's more valuable than random button presses on the toilet. There are various reasons why people may or may not interact with you or your creations, ranging from social media algorithms to egos to short attention span, and so on. But that should never worry us because it's not the reason we got into art in the first place. Always do what you love, and keep at it, for yourselves. Peace and love.
Our podcast is not the biggest on the planet (yet! :) ), but these comments make it so worth it! Thanks so much for listening and taking the time to write these wise words! :)
I love this sentiment & I agree entirely! One thing I tell people is that the numbers on social media make us immune to the impact our art is really having. Think if you made a drawing & you showed it to 10 people who liked it - that would be a lot! At a gallery if hundreds see your painting, that's also a lot! Yet on social media we somehow expect that we should be reaching thousands. It's irrelevant to the value of work. Plus FWIW companies don't care how many likes a post gets. Especially on IG I see all the same artwork is popular, bc the format favors little digital portraits with strong shapes & lines. But for those of us in environment design, even if you're really good you're not going to reach thousands of kids who are clicking like on a Loish painting (& that's no shade to her - she's super talented, just in a different field)
Probably one of my favorite episodes you guys have done. The discussion on being empathetic towards people in a professional environment who may be a bit different then you was fantastic! It can sometimes be difficult to navigate, and I understand the fears of unintentionally offending someone by mistakenly saying the wrong thing -- but I think as long as you come at it with an open mind and from a place of wanting to learn how to be better then you were yesterday, and to try and make everyone feel included, you can't really go too wrong. You guys did a great job of discussing the topic with a lot of nuance and, well... empathy. Also, Emmanuel, I have a hard time imagining you as "intense" or abrasive at any point in your life! But I guess that just goes to show that if someone as good natured and successful as yourself felt he had things to work on, perhaps we are all works in progress and we can all improve to become better people over time.
Guys I gotta say, I really dig thispodcast.. Smart dudes with soothing voices to listen at while you're working is the best. I've been lurking at your work for years, and knowing that both of you have kind of the same insecurities as I do is (in a weird way..) reassuring. I have many episodes to catch up on, but in the meantime, keep them coming! Best, Ken
THanks Ken! I know that feeling ... realising that people twice your age still grapple with the same issues as an artist ... its comforting and scary at the same time. :)
This?! So GOOD!! Thank you Jan and Emmanuel. Your insight is invaluable!! I am just aghast that you both feel the sense I do about artstation and instagram. I must admit it. I am shocked! you both are such luminaries in the field and for you to feel the way I feel is humbling. I mean I am striving to reach your level at getting work and--one day working with you both directly-and working at ILM and such. Dang....I have to breathe a sigh of relief that we are ALL human and go through the same things. Also the discussion of sociability and how you move through a work-space is fundamentally crucial and this post is quite important. Please keep posting!
Amazing podcast. This might be my favorite. I appreciate you sharing your struggle with social media as many young artist like myself still don't have a broader perspective on how to manage that aspect of self-image. This hits hard especially when, as you said, sometimes your friends left and right are getting into high profile studios and that somehow affects how you assess your own failures or successes.
I keep listening to your stuff while I work on some of my projects and I always get in a good mood because of your talks. It's all very relatable and it's nice seeing how more experienced people deal with all these issues we all have. Thank you for these!
I really appreciate this podcast and how real you guys are. So true about working on a project for a long time, you become saturated in specific imagery and inspirations that you cant always utilize for your day to day work that is SO easy to bleed into personal work.
This is the podcast I've been waiting for. Every episode helps me to move forward in pursuing a career in this industry with more wisdom and thoughtfulness. It helps make every step feel a little more solid instead of just drifting around. You also make it seem possible. So, thank you!
Thank you for this talk, especially the difficult client part, and how to cut off.. Really made me feels better and more confident about my own situation! Also I'm so happy I met some of my teachers, that made me realised that I loved working on decors and environments.. not only on "concepts for films" It really helped to target more, and to be more open about jobs when I got graduated.. As long as I get to work on decors, I'm fine!
Oh man, I feel for you on what happened with ILM! I had a similar experience with posting REJECTED sketches I'd done for a project involving a major IP. Not the sketches that led to the final design, but the other designs that were not chosen & were never used, but technically the client does own them. Anyway, one of the sketches I posted went mildly viral on social media & I got an email from legal & a phone call from the AD. At this point, I only post personal work that's TOTALLY unrelated from anything I've done recently. I'm lowkey paranoid about one of the clients thinking it looks like something I drew for them
I have learned so much in the last days from your podcasts. Thank you for doing this, im very grateful. I try everyday to become a better artist, but I also try to become a better person. I was a very intense person myself many years ago, so I belive I can relate.
the way i see it, you guys in the industry are already at the top. The people on instagram are hunting for likes, usually the stuff that gets the most likes isn't the best technically, but that person excels at social media. - but consequently, these people are earning tons from commissions, and even now i'm having to stop learning art/technical stuff, in order to attempt to get seen on social.
Social is a part of the game in these days unfortunately. But I will say this, stay true to your art and you as a person and usually things turn out for the best. Those people getting tons of commissions- it could be the worst clients. Just do your best to get your work out there and let your work speak for itself.
also you should not tone down thy " guy talk:" IMO you should invite the women to vent and express their views in that way. In this way you include everyone in the piss take and BS/trying to be funny/ venting conversation
Really great episode! Really cool to hear you guys talk so openly about such topics (like the rest of the podcasts of course but this one feels particularly good to hear :) )
As a female AD, I can confirm that companies fire people all the time for "bro" talk. Whether or not it'll get you "blackballed" in the industry depends on who heard it & how old the person is, how tasteless the joke was, etc. Also, I don't want to scare anyone, but just be aware that a lot of in-house studio spaces are under surveillance cameras. It depends on the jurisdiction as to whether it's legal to record audio, but most of the times when you accept a role you're given a contract & you give consent to being monitored. You also promise to comply with the company's code of ethics & so forth. So you might think you're alone & joking with a fellow "bro" but corp mgmt & compliance may review the films if they get a complaint or are suspicious
I ll like all your pics now Emmanuel Shiu :D Its interesting that even though you guys are coming from concept art background but this valuable info applies to game art or any industry. Thank you for sharing this!!
Can't agree more with having an emergency fund - it's a crucial bargaining chip when taking on new work but also, like you've both said, makes working a lot less stressful. Personally I make sure to have 1 years living savings with ambition for 2 years. (un)fortunate to not have any commitments that make the finance situation more difficult/tactical. If I were to go back 3 years when I first started freelancing in Arch-viz, i'd make sure to have 3-6 months savings opposed to....barely 1 month.
I have mad mad respect for Emanuel, admitting this own cockiness in the past is never an easy thing to do. I would love to have him shit all over my portfolio tho haha
This episode has slam-dunked a lot of my doubts and insecurities into a wider wavelength. You guys have truly confirmed a lot of my thoughts and shown me that we are all pretty much in the same boat. Some great new insides and perspectives and most of all life lessons! Thank you so much, guys. ! P.s You guys should make a toilet tile, with a guy taking a shit whilst scrolling Instagram and liking a Michel Angelo masterpiece ^_^
Mmmm. I hope I got the point right, n mmm, I would be okay, if someone would say hey guys lol, it is not bothering me at all. Hey guys, I would feel myself as a part of a crew, n I wouldn't care about anything. I didn't know it is an issue... we live in a strange world nowadays... : / Still I don't understand, btw I'm a female )
That is also ok of course. Just not everyone is and should be. :) If you feel you're appreciated for your skills and as a person in your team and company thats great!
At my studio, they prefer for a person that will sync with the group than an amazing artist that will bring everybody down and burn down the servers XD
my artstation expirience is not good, you create an artwork,BUT since u not a pro member, u only got 10 view in 1 hour..meanwhile bad median level artwork had PRO account got 200 view in 10 minute..thats fact
If you post your work to artstation it won't feed the algorithm just by itself. You have to post that artstation link to other social media sites, multiple Facebook groups, Linkedin, Instagram, etc. and ask people to click on your artstation page for higher resolution, more images, whatever. Being a Pro has its benefits, but the main reason i like it because it let's you organize your work and you gain access to analytics, which is nice.
Good talk, as always. :) To the younger people out there that may be reading this, I want to double on this point: Do not allow yourselves to fall into trap of social media and do not give other people power over your ideas. If I would have looked at my number of likes, I would've stopped doing art (or whatever else I'm doing) the moment I started it. We have got this false image that if we don't get tens or hundreds of reactions, our work is not good / we are useless. If we can truly influence ONE person's life in a day, I'd say it's more valuable than random button presses on the toilet. There are various reasons why people may or may not interact with you or your creations, ranging from social media algorithms to egos to short attention span, and so on. But that should never worry us because it's not the reason we got into art in the first place. Always do what you love, and keep at it, for yourselves. Peace and love.
agreed!
100%
Your comment after this amazing podcast is the cherry on the cake. Thank you for taking your time to write this!
Our podcast is not the biggest on the planet (yet! :) ), but these comments make it so worth it! Thanks so much for listening and taking the time to write these wise words! :)
I love this sentiment & I agree entirely! One thing I tell people is that the numbers on social media make us immune to the impact our art is really having. Think if you made a drawing & you showed it to 10 people who liked it - that would be a lot! At a gallery if hundreds see your painting, that's also a lot! Yet on social media we somehow expect that we should be reaching thousands. It's irrelevant to the value of work. Plus FWIW companies don't care how many likes a post gets. Especially on IG I see all the same artwork is popular, bc the format favors little digital portraits with strong shapes & lines. But for those of us in environment design, even if you're really good you're not going to reach thousands of kids who are clicking like on a Loish painting (& that's no shade to her - she's super talented, just in a different field)
Probably one of my favorite episodes you guys have done. The discussion on being empathetic towards people in a professional environment who may be a bit different then you was fantastic!
It can sometimes be difficult to navigate, and I understand the fears of unintentionally offending someone by mistakenly saying the wrong thing -- but I think as long as you come at it with an open mind and from a place of wanting to learn how to be better then you were yesterday, and to try and make everyone feel included, you can't really go too wrong. You guys did a great job of discussing the topic with a lot of nuance and, well... empathy.
Also, Emmanuel, I have a hard time imagining you as "intense" or abrasive at any point in your life! But I guess that just goes to show that if someone as good natured and successful as yourself felt he had things to work on, perhaps we are all works in progress and we can all improve to become better people over time.
Thanks so much for your thoughts Zach!
THanks Zach for your feedback!
Guys I gotta say, I really dig thispodcast.. Smart dudes with soothing voices to listen at while you're working is the best. I've been lurking at your work for years, and knowing that both of you have kind of the same insecurities as I do is (in a weird way..) reassuring. I have many episodes to catch up on, but in the meantime, keep them coming!
Best,
Ken
THanks Ken! I know that feeling ... realising that people twice your age still grapple with the same issues as an artist ... its comforting and scary at the same time. :)
Emmanuel you are amazing. Don`t ever change - such a refreshing talk guys.
i am truly happy to hear this honest reviews from both you.
I think him changing is the main point of the episode hahah. But I get what you mean :) Don't ever change changing :)
thank you ! I appreciate the kind words :)
This?! So GOOD!! Thank you Jan and Emmanuel. Your insight is invaluable!! I am just aghast that you both feel the sense I do about artstation and instagram. I must admit it. I am shocked! you both are such luminaries in the field and for you to feel the way I feel is humbling. I mean I am striving to reach your level at getting work and--one day working with you both directly-and working at ILM and such. Dang....I have to breathe a sigh of relief that we are ALL human and go through the same things. Also the discussion of sociability and how you move through a work-space is fundamentally crucial and this post is quite important. Please keep posting!
Thanks so much! Yes we're all just human haha!
Amazing podcast. This might be my favorite. I appreciate you sharing your struggle with social media as many young artist like myself still don't have a broader perspective on how to manage that aspect of self-image. This hits hard especially when, as you said, sometimes your friends left and right are getting into high profile studios and that somehow affects how you assess your own failures or successes.
Thanks so much for listening and sharing your thoughts :)
I keep listening to your stuff while I work on some of my projects and I always get in a good mood because of your talks. It's all very relatable and it's nice seeing how more experienced people deal with all these issues we all have. Thank you for these!
Thanks for listening!!! Glad it helps!
a beginner hearing industry giants talking while practicing art.. this is so great and useful!!
Great to hear! Thank you!
I really appreciate this podcast and how real you guys are. So true about working on a project for a long time, you become saturated in specific imagery and inspirations that you cant always utilize for your day to day work that is SO easy to bleed into personal work.
Yes! Thank you!
This is the podcast I've been waiting for. Every episode helps me to move forward in pursuing a career in this industry with more wisdom and thoughtfulness. It helps make every step feel a little more solid instead of just drifting around. You also make it seem possible. So, thank you!
Thanks so much, thats the reason why we do it! :)
Thank you for this talk, especially the difficult client part, and how to cut off.. Really made me feels better and more confident about my own situation!
Also I'm so happy I met some of my teachers, that made me realised that I loved working on decors and environments.. not only on "concepts for films" It really helped to target more, and to be more open about jobs when I got graduated.. As long as I get to work on decors, I'm fine!
Thanks for sharing and glad you liked the episode!
Another great episode. Thanks guys!
You're welcome!
Oh man, I feel for you on what happened with ILM! I had a similar experience with posting REJECTED sketches I'd done for a project involving a major IP. Not the sketches that led to the final design, but the other designs that were not chosen & were never used, but technically the client does own them. Anyway, one of the sketches I posted went mildly viral on social media & I got an email from legal & a phone call from the AD. At this point, I only post personal work that's TOTALLY unrelated from anything I've done recently. I'm lowkey paranoid about one of the clients thinking it looks like something I drew for them
thanks for sharing!
Tuesday has become my favourite weekday, thanks!
Thanks!
I feel like soon you can have a whole portfolio only with these sick youtube thumbnails! lol
hahahaha!
Thank you so much for your advice and every experience you share with us.
You are so welcome!
I have learned so much in the last days from your podcasts. Thank you for doing this, im very grateful. I try everyday to become a better artist, but I also try to become a better person. I was a very intense person myself many years ago, so I belive I can relate.
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!
the way i see it, you guys in the industry are already at the top. The people on instagram are hunting for likes, usually the stuff that gets the most likes isn't the best technically, but that person excels at social media. - but consequently, these people are earning tons from commissions, and even now i'm having to stop learning art/technical stuff, in order to attempt to get seen on social.
Everybody hunts for likes, even famous professionals ... It's human nature wanting to be likes and recognised. :)
Social is a part of the game in these days unfortunately. But I will say this, stay true to your art and you as a person and usually things turn out for the best. Those people getting tons of commissions- it could be the worst clients. Just do your best to get your work out there and let your work speak for itself.
@@EmmanuelShiuArt totally agree, I'm glad someone said it srsly 🙌💫
"just do what you want"
this is the biggest takeaway from this podcast
also you should not tone down thy " guy talk:" IMO you should invite the women to vent and express their views in that way. In this way you include everyone in the piss take and BS/trying to be funny/ venting conversation
Good point :)
It was a good experience to listen to guys... hats off to both the legends
Thanks!
Great episode guys. Gem of a podcast
Thanks so much!
Great talk as allways =D Thx !
Thank you!
Really great episode! Really cool to hear you guys talk so openly about such topics (like the rest of the podcasts of course but this one feels particularly good to hear :) )
thank you!
As a female AD, I can confirm that companies fire people all the time for "bro" talk. Whether or not it'll get you "blackballed" in the industry depends on who heard it & how old the person is, how tasteless the joke was, etc. Also, I don't want to scare anyone, but just be aware that a lot of in-house studio spaces are under surveillance cameras. It depends on the jurisdiction as to whether it's legal to record audio, but most of the times when you accept a role you're given a contract & you give consent to being monitored. You also promise to comply with the company's code of ethics & so forth. So you might think you're alone & joking with a fellow "bro" but corp mgmt & compliance may review the films if they get a complaint or are suspicious
Yeah this inexcusable behaviour has no place anywhere.
I ll like all your pics now Emmanuel Shiu :D
Its interesting that even though you guys are coming from concept art background but this valuable info applies to game art or any industry.
Thank you for sharing this!!
Thank you so much 😀 Yes, we're trying hard with the thumbnails hahahaha!
Great episode again! Love to hear you guys talkin!
Thx!
Can't agree more with having an emergency fund - it's a crucial bargaining chip when taking on new work but also, like you've both said, makes working a lot less stressful. Personally I make sure to have 1 years living savings with ambition for 2 years. (un)fortunate to not have any commitments that make the finance situation more difficult/tactical.
If I were to go back 3 years when I first started freelancing in Arch-viz, i'd make sure to have 3-6 months savings opposed to....barely 1 month.
Thanks for your thoughts. Indeed, as artists and freelancers we should also learn to handle and be prudent with our finances!
This podcast helps me a lot to learn, it's really interesting, thank you for doing this.
Glad to hear it!
Another slice of GOLD
Thanks Gordon!
Awesome Talk guys!
Thank you!
Thanks so much for these videos🙏
Glad you like them!
This episode was so awesome, thanks for doing this !!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I have mad mad respect for Emanuel, admitting this own cockiness in the past is never an easy thing to do. I would love to have him shit all over my portfolio tho haha
I'm sure he will be happy to, haha!
Love your manga expression (meme) on your face Eman.. :)
He's very angry! :)
@@artdepartmentpodcast you won't like me when I'm angry .....
This episode has slam-dunked a lot of my doubts and insecurities into a wider wavelength. You guys have truly confirmed a lot of my thoughts and shown me that we are all pretty much in the same boat. Some great new insides and perspectives and most of all life lessons! Thank you so much, guys. !
P.s You guys should make a toilet tile, with a guy taking a shit whilst scrolling Instagram and liking a Michel Angelo masterpiece ^_^
Hahahaha, great idea! We need to step up our UA-cam thumbnail game! :)
Hey guys, love this channel, thanks for sharing :D
Our pleasure!
Keep at it guys! :) Great content as allways.
Thanks so much!
ok, this is golden
I'm starting a new career as professional UA-cam cover image designer! :)
Mmmm. I hope I got the point right, n mmm, I would be okay, if someone would say hey guys lol, it is not bothering me at all. Hey guys, I would feel myself as a part of a crew, n I wouldn't care about anything. I didn't know it is an issue... we live in a strange world nowadays... : /
Still I don't understand, btw I'm a female )
That is also ok of course. Just not everyone is and should be. :) If you feel you're appreciated for your skills and as a person in your team and company thats great!
At my studio, they prefer for a person that will sync with the group than an amazing artist that will bring everybody down and burn down the servers XD
Doesn't mean amazing artists can't also be good team players though :)
no need to respond Jan, enjoy your morning coffee ;)
lol you replied already XDD
Is Emmanuel in his 50's? 25 years on from late 20's.. He looks 28 honestly
He is and he's also very happy to hear the last part haha.
@@artdepartmentpodcast Awesome :)
OK so you guys are two people to avoid when working in the same studio ?? ;) :) :) (joke)
hahahahah, you'll get yelled at by Emmanuel and ignored by Jan!
@@artdepartmentpodcast LOL!! I would never give you both the opportunity :) ;)
my artstation expirience is not good, you create an artwork,BUT since u not a pro member, u only got 10 view in 1 hour..meanwhile bad median level artwork had PRO account got 200 view in 10 minute..thats fact
If you post your work to artstation it won't feed the algorithm just by itself. You have to post that artstation link to other social media sites, multiple Facebook groups, Linkedin, Instagram, etc. and ask people to click on your artstation page for higher resolution, more images, whatever. Being a Pro has its benefits, but the main reason i like it because it let's you organize your work and you gain access to analytics, which is nice.
Well and lets just not forget, Artstation is a business and they need to show content that generates more clicks and views and ad dollars for them.