i just tried the same thing with bbcf with the new rollback. first match fought a guy with 500 wins and i hit the guy like once. guess i will have to find a beginners discord or something.
Yeah dude it's really hard to find players that on our skill level because not a lot of them play it, You will get your ass whoop instantly the moment you go online
I'll never understand why crossplay isn't standard in fighting games. SFV has it and it works just fine while also allowing people getting into matches even faster. Because the entire playerbase is now connected instead of divided. If DNF Duel is dead by the end of this year, I'm done with fighting games.
Max is 100% on point with this topic. I used to love playing fighting games when I was a bit younger, but as I have gotten older and have more stuff to do it’s just hard to find time to keep up with a community that has more free time. I got dnf yesterday and could not find a game with someone who has played less than 300 games. Fighting games need to build a stronger casual audience by whatever means necessary, love dnf duel but it will have been a waste of money if I can’t find other players in a similar position to me online. And ultimately part of why I end up not spending on the next cool looking fighting game
Education is going to be the thing that helps bridge the gap the most. Not knowing what to do in situations is the killer. Even if you get fucked up a lot in fighting games, if you know what to do, there's something to strive for. Not knowing how to deal with things is super annoying
I'm gonna disagree, because this game is very accessible. I learned how to play Berserker in a day, didn't hit a wall until the entrance to Gold ranks. 3 weeks later I am Diamond 2 and play 3 characters. It is not difficult to get your foot into DNF
How the hell does DNF Duel, the game based off a co-op beat em up, NOT have a beat em up mode but Granblu Fantasy VS, a game based off a turn based JRPG, does?
Because Dungeon Fighter Online, the game DNF Duel is based off still exists. I can't see why they'd put time and resources into a beat em up mode when their main game is exactly that.
It may also be more due to the fact 8ing was the main developer of DNF duel while Arc System was the main/only developer of Granblue Fantasy Vs (who's rpg mode was honestly one of the main reasons I bought it tbh) so while Arc may do something like that 8ing may prefer a more traditional style for fighting games and what they add is ultimately their choice.
Hopefully there will be a big announcement for DNF Duel this weekend. The game is great, but they will need to start moving into the “we need to draw more new players in,” mode soon. That and I do find myself curious on how well the reception for Multiversus will be at EVO. Could very well be the start of something big for free to play if they play their cards right.
@@DaviddeBergerac It was design for 2v2 from the ground up..1v1 is just a option for people who don't want to be force to play 2v2..This is why some characters don't work in 1v1 because they was only design to support others and not to destroy opposition
@@BTRshow it really isn’t an anomaly. Good and well-known ip + free + universally platform fighters appeal to more people then traditional fighters = success. If shonen did literally the exact same thing they would see the same if not more success. Same with PlayStation.
I've been trying to get into fighting games recently, and this video perfectly describes my problem. I feel like getting into FGs is like getting into shmups, where you just need to find "the one game" that you enjoy moment-to-moment enough so that you can take loss after loss and still keep at it cause you're having a good time. But that requires just trying a lot of games, which is perfectly feasible for like $10 shmups, but not at all for $60 fighters. So I wait for the sale to check it out, only for there to be no scrubs left and I get bodied. Hell I even bought KOFXV this week cause it was 50% off, and despite that game coming out just MONTHS ago it still has that problem. This is why in addition to the "cross play, rollback, F2P" triangle you mention, I think that single player content is so important. It makes the game worth purchasing for $60 even if you don't know you'll want to commit to the online, since you know you'll get your money's worth playing offline content anyway.
Same for me. This game got me back to playing Fighting games but the level of play from everyone is so far out of my area that it created a lower motivation to continue playing rank and lobby matches. I am more for single player content than the other two since the developers may shut down the servers.
@Galaxy40k and @RogueBuraiSolo A simple way to get around that is having someone stable to play with, preferably someone who's just a little better than you so you don't get 100-0d but you still get 10-5d. That'll give you enough of a challenge and someone to check with why certain situations played out a certain way (why didn't that work? how did you get out of that? I couldn't defend against that, what exactly were you doing?). So, the answer now is to either have a friend that fits the bill or join a discord/community. Also, KoF15 (any of them, really) was never gonna be a game for newcomers, the community is incredibly resilient and dedicated with decades of legacy skill AND you have to learn 3 characters at least. Thankfully, games are getting more accessible, like GGST, DBFZ, Granblue, DNF, etc. Hope you can find the game that keeps you in, cause I get kicks out of this genre like no other, and I'm obviously not alone in this. Good games.
@@dpedreno Absolutely agree. The best thing to do is get a couple of friends to get into a game with you, together. It's not always going to work out, but the dream is that you all have a lot of fun and improve together. Kind of building your own pool of opponents to "play ranked" with.
That's the crux of fighting games. People who are really good at fighting games can transfer their skills to any other fighting game where's the rest of us pick up a fighting game that looks cool and get absolutely shit on even tho it's day 1. Fighting games are not new player friendly, they're not unskilled player friendly. It's rare for a fighting game to build a bridge that extends to those players. Smash Ultimate is one of those games and I hope Project L will be another.
@@kennethboozer6148 It started with the palette swap that looked like our boy. Then the modding community took it to the next level, and Max put the cherry on top with his voicework.
I love DNF Duel, didn't play it too far past release since I could only get two friends to buy it. Still actively playing Multiversus cause I have 3 different friend groups that are all playing it. Cause it's easy to get your friends to play a free game. I hope people realize that the main competition against fighting games in the casual market isn't other fighting games, it's all the games in the market that are currently free and full of content. My friends didn't drop Street Fighter or Tekken to play Multiversus, they're dropping Apex, LoL, Unite, and Valorant.
True, but it's also in competition with other, non-fighting, premium titles. It's not always easy to get your friends to buy the game you want to play, and when there's money at stake people are gonna lean towards something they're more likely to enjoy. The more casual they are towards fighting games, the more likely they are to opt for something in a genre that is more squarely in their wheelhouse. I love fighting games, but put a half-dozen full price games in front of me, and I'm more likely to go for an RPG or character action game than a day-one, 1.0.0 fighter. The money-to-playtime ratio just isn't there for me with fighters, I'm not much of a competitor and mainly play in person with friends.
@@GeebusCrust I have to say were I am more likely to play a fighting game day one than you hit the nail on the head. the thing a lot of fighting developers seem to believe is that they are competing with other fighting games like it's the days of the Arcade like DNF Dule is a fun game I like it I don't play it much but I like it but the problem is from a game perspective there just isn't much to it so it's hard to recommend to people over other game in different which is a huge problem for fighting games so few of them are trying to be a good value not to say there bad games but it makes them hard to recommend to anyone other than established fighting game fans
Granblue, Guilty Gear Strive, and DNF Duel are probably some of the more difficult games for ASW to develop due to the work restrictions during the COVID shutdowns in Japan in 2020-2021. Having to try and work those projects from home must have been tough, probably even more with DNF Duel being a collaboration between ASW, 8ing, and Neople. Sure hope it does well.
@@YourMasta Woah, woah. Take it easy. Many, many companies in gaming have been very clear about how difficult it is to not be in one place and have access to each other and their work being done. The long distance thing straight up doesn’t work, the minutia literally isn’t there for some projects. It works better for some over others, for sure. It’s not practical for everything though and suggesting that it’s just as effective, being remote, over being in one location? Nah. Hell nah. Too many variables and error that happen with remote work, even with how far we’ve come with internet and digital communication. You’re simply giving way too much credit to what’s available now and the reliability therein.
@@Damian-ew1vl what exactly makes it harder for a japanese corporation to pivot into WFH then an american one? Legit curious. I don't get the argument.
@@Mr_Buu Work culture is completely different, most companies are based around work *time* and not task completion, with people often "hanging out" with their co-workers and boss after work, which ends up being a second work time since that's when future plans, etc. are made, ofc this doesn't apply to all companies but on top of this coordinating all systems from scratch to a work from home environment puts additional strain on an already crappy system
This is why single player content is so important. It's cool that the devs are focusing on making the multiplayer the best it can be... but when the game's online scene dies, there's nothing left. Brawl definitely isn't the best Smash game, but it's Subspace Emissary is something that people remember for a long time and even go back and replay to this day. Having other stuff to come back to not only helps the game stand out more, but also helps people remember it more.
That's my exact mentality with ALL fighting games in the past decade. Waiting for the Ultimate/Definitive version. I don't like dealing with "season passes" just to slowly trickle characters into a fighting game. By the time the complete version is released, a lot of times I'm already over it as well and moved on to be hyped about another game. F2P games seem to be the only way to be okay with an "unfinished" game to get into at the beginning.
That and the nature of being constantly fresh with updates and new characters/content while being free to try/play tends to keep more new players coming in over time than a hard purchase game which keeps the player pool from growing stagnant or too small as the game ages.
I feel that's unfortunately just going to be the case for most games in the future. Game's aren't worth some fixed 60 bucks to make anymore for the growing amount of content people expect. Probably only limited story games will be that way. Max is comparing free games that always update to keep a population of players invested but they don't make any real extreme visual or mechanical changes like normal game sequels make (like an ongoing moba vs a fighting game with sequels). I think the FGC expects completely fresh and changed games from the last, but to also have a F2P model with updated content, that really doesn't happen. It just seems there is a contradictory expectation wanting it both ways. For those players who play F2P games, the concept of "unfinished" is irrelevant or moot; they expect a constant live service, there is no end game to reach. It's just a different type of audience and market.
Meanwhile type lumina releases every DLC for free, you can buy it as there is not a "definite edition", and none in sight, 4 free dlcs are coming in the near future.
Yep, I'm mostly the same. Only game I bought day one was Mortal Kombat 11 on PC, and it just made me extremely sour because of the patches not getting to PC anywhere as fast as consoles. I had to wait a week to properly play some modes because the balancing was all off and whatnot. Made me a worse person because I recall being really angry with the devs or something. So yeah, never more. Just wait for the Ultimate edition with all the characters, so I can fool around, admire the graphics, play the story if any and that's it.
Yes I don’t agree with Max’s take on “keep the content coming to keep people interested”. Just give me a huge, fully developed game from the start like when I was a child and I am happy with that, I will stick around for years. I hated SFV because it came out in a horrible state
Max has an incredibly good point in talking about how content deprived new fighting games are compared to an Ultimate Edition, and that players have realized that. it really is becoming more and more difficult to spend $59.99 on a game with 22 playable characters, knowing that i could wait a year or two and get the same game with 40+ playable characters on-sale for $29.99. this is also making it more and more difficult to talk your friends into buying new fighting games at release so you can play together. it's great hearing Max touch on this topic, good shit.
Somehow enjoyed this game more than strive despite liking xrd a lot. Maining dragon knight and have had a pretty good time though the game does need better defensive options as some charcters can be downright oppressive at times
@@igorz4582 yes you can, when you have a job and don't live off of videogames. Also, who the hell cares for the world theory? It's actually based on economic alignment, not strenght. Even if it was about economic strenght, it wouldn't even apply today, as there are lots of countries among the 15 strongest economies in the world that wouldn't belong in the "first world". If you pay attention I'm pointing out a dumb decision that made this company lose a lot of money.
strive still has one of the top playerbases in all fighting game and its an anime game without a universally recognized ip. anime fighters are the king of the jungle (fgc) rn
I have a love and hate relationship with DNF Duel. I love playing Inquisitor and the game have interesting system and mechanics. Start with full bar/mp is an idea I like and makes me feel I'm playing an RPGs or MMORPGS, thus why I pick a character that resembles a class and weapon I like in such games. But the unbalance really is making me hate playing it time to time, like DK, Swift Master, Trouble Shooter (mostly the grenade angle/hitstun and the shotgun), Ranger, even Vanguard have options to keep me locked down while my options to lock them down take forever to come out and don't even travel full screen...while also sharing the spot for the smallest amount of HP and Guard Meter. Like...WHY!?. Now besides that, the game also have its issues (specially on PC), no rematch prop for whatever reason, matchmaking suddenly stops working and needs you to restart, Keyboard still causes issues in the game, etc. At least the devs are transparent and had keep us updated very week or every other week. Just TODAY they announced there is a balance patch in the making to be released in August and they want to collect more feedback on game issues they are unable to recreate themselfs, to identify causes and fix them. But I been telling people on steam forums, its Version1 of the game, I also play Dragn Ball Fighterz, it took that game 2 WHOLE YEARS to get in a VERY good balance spot. All fighitng games are so unbalance at launch because you can have the devs playing, sure, but when you have hundreds and thousands of people running matches and using the tools; that's when you find the broken stuff; DBFZ snap meta was born due framedata during Season2...and got patched out by Season3.
Pretty much this. The game is fun, but it does have problems, just as any fg has had when they first come out. I just really hope the devs keep releasing content and that it can attract more players so we can get a ton of seasons, and as a result a ton of content and balance fixes.
Ranger isn't good lol. Play him and find out how much he gets mauled. Safe jumps means he can't DP. He has to watch for rolls because all of his normals are punished by them. He has no air game at all. No ranger ever uses jumping light, jumping 2 is only useable as a combo extender. His only 'real' option in the air is grenade, which is solely for set ups. Ranger can't just 'jump in' on people, like the rest of the cast can, meaning he's restricted to ground combat, meaning you can hold down block and never take damage. Ranger has no cross ups or instant overheads. His normal are all so slow that you can't press a button to contest people who manage to get in your face. Ranger is a character people think is 'strong' when never playing him.
@@A1phaz0ne Oh I agree he isn't that good when compared to the rest, but I was talking about the Inquistor - Ranger matchup. I already found a Ranger player that punished successful rolls on his normals with grabs so at best you can grab or tech grab vs him. This is a ranger that controlled spaceing really good. That information teached me, as Inquisitor I should relay more on 6S to get in. He dosen't have a way to contest the air, but one of his standing normals is high enough to prevent the opponent from jumping on fullscreen, his normals do cover 3 different heights on fullscreen to "zone"; wich isnt neccesarely effective but vs a character lacking fullscreen button and long startup/recovery off the options that go quiet far, Inquisitor is zoned out. (unlike say Crussader's wall, Hitman's 6S, SM's [S]/belt, Lost Warrior, etc). But you do take damage, this game have Guard Gauge, losing your guard leads to take all the chip damage. Rangers only approach you when your guard gauge is low to use spin guns to finish the job and stay out of guard cancel reach but within rage for an slide in confirm. (Wich is why this move have long startup, just like Inq's wheel). Just as Inquisitor, Inq's faster normal is only 1 frame faster than Ranger's; this is why both characters depend hugely on over committing with DPs if they have a punish window but feel their normals are too slow to confirm. And as I said at the start, I never said Ranger is strong, I said he is strong in the matchup; Inquisitor, a designed lock-down character; gets zone-out and locked down BETTER by other characters: "have options to keep me locked down while my options to lock them down take forever to come out and don't even travel full screen...while also sharing the spot for the smallest amount of HP and Guard Meter. Like...WHY!?." I would not mind Inq's toolkit if she was allowed to commit at least 1 more mistake..but as it is, she is too fragile. Is a double edge sword, she die in 1-2 touches; but that allows her to gain access to more mana compared to other characters after the same combo.
DNF Duel should’ve probably been free-to-play, and it definitely should’ve had some kind of dungeon mode in it. Given the beat 'em up game it’s based on I was surprised it didn’t turn out to be a F2P game with a big dungeon mode; kind of figured it’d basically be the fighting game version of Dungeon Fighter Online.
While I agree that it shouldve had a dungeon mode, ArcSys/Eighting is not the kind of people to make their games f2p. Yes it makes sense since the original game was but what else can they offer? They work so hard on their characters that they do everything else as a secondary objective. It sucks, but I believe they will give us more.
@@captainmalice if it was f2p and offered cosmetic outfits for cash, alongside usual f2p fare of pay or play for characters, it would probably make more, long term, from having a larger amount of players paying anywhere between nothing, and more than the base game cost. I love the look of DNF but after buying into several games that limited their player base, I'm so hesitant to get into yet another one while it's $60. I can't be alone in this thought.
What if DNF instead of being free to play, it costs $20-25? On top of that, what if a couple characters + online/player matches would be free-to-try twice a week (48 hours) for an entire month after release (a timed offer)? Is that model more plausible instead of making it completely free to play? At least there would be some guaranteed money up front. The fighting game genre is already super niche and making games within it completely free to play while offering rollback networking, great characters, amazing matchmaking, etc is a huge risk for investment especially if the IP isn't that well known, no? WB and Riot can afford to make free to play games because they are huuuge companies that have tons of $$$.
My big problem with Max's push for Free to Play games is the fact that those games tend towards needing to be online all the time and having no offline content, let alone anything for single players who actually want some kind of story content.
I’ll never understand why people don’t play the wide selection of godlike single player games instead of buying a fighting game to play a really crappy and gimped single player experience where the A.I. is usually designed to cheat with button input reading and such, and it’s not even like a real or proper challenge compared to playing a single player crafted game or something. Single player content is truly a waste of time if the games balance and mechanics are specifically catered and designed around human vs human interaction. So much better to play a single player game where it’s properly designed around A.I. and you enjoying yourself within the world. It’s like the same deal when devs make a very single player designed game and then shoe horn crappy multiplayer into it. I don’t know why people want games to be out of character so bad rather than playing the game that specializes in what they want.
Yeah I have the same concern. Usually F2P games lack much offline content or are completely unplayable if the servers are cut off since so much is tied to the online environment.
Completely agreed. Not to mention, the lack of content in general (wasn't this the FGC's main complaint about SFV's launch?), the lack of game ownership, the much more aggressive monetization schemes and grind really hurts the experience. I'm really concerned about the future of fighting games with this sudden F2P push.
Not enough fighting games try to bother with drawing in the solo player. That is why NetherRealm games do so well because they look at both groups. At the end of the day while the online will carry a game to the end the thing that will make it last forever is its offline modes. Look at Smash as a fighting game. A majority of the content is singleplayer content. DNF is an amazing game that just lacks a lot of the necessary things that make me want to come back to it. Challenges are cool in the game but they are so advance that its not about how good you are at an actual match its about combo memorization. I will be the first to admit that I suck at combos but what I am good at is learning the fundamentals.
Right its why I stuck around Soul Caliber 6 for as long as I did it had enough single player content to keep me busy while i slowly learned how to play the game at the same time heck even Tekken 7 had enough to keep me busy for a bit with treasure battle and its "okay" story mode
@Keshuel Offline modes can help train players by giving them a chance to slowly get into the game without having to get their asses kick the moment they jump online or just giving them options other than to jump online. Melee isn't a great example because that game is more of a spectators sport because of the amount of effort it takes to get into it. Plus it's still alive from more than just online. CS:GO and TF2, while are online games, have the benefit of have non pvp modes so that you can at least have an understanding of the game play without having some 1000hr player kill you over and over (or do something entirely different like cs:go surfing). DnF duel lacks any offline options so if you don't want to play people you literally can't play the game in any other way besides the basic CPU vs Player. And finally, a fighting game should never be just about combo memorizing. Not only is there more to getting good than memorizing combos, but there's situations you have to learn to even get those combos. Doesn't matter if you know every characters 100% combos, if you can't land the hit because your opponent knew how to prevent you from even hitting them in the first place, your not actually good.
> That is why NetherRealm games do so well because they look at both group MK11 is practically dead online and seen as a fucking joke competitively. MK almost exclusively relies on brand recognition over everything else because their games are always front-loaded within the first month but immediately die out. The bulk of Smash content is multiplayer its single mode doesn't offer anything but survival and the assortment of repetition to unlock useless items and trophies.
@@ChocolateBar999 Smash still offers a decent single player with more than just survival. Classic mode (essentially arcade mode), challenge mode which depending on the game can be fun or just straight irritating like some other games, and other such minigame modes and even a stage builder. Smash content may be mostly multiplayer but their still is plenty to do by yourself. Also no fighting game has lasted in popularity past the first 2-3 weeks. Even DBFighterz had a huge drop in players after the first 2 weeks.
@Keshuel The next trick is to make offline modes complement and work with online modes. One of the obvious things is to allow players to do other stuff while the game searches for an online match. For a more extreme scenario, SFV saw more people searching for online matches in order to cheese their way through the abysmal Survival Mode. Another obvious thing, though more difficult to pursue, is to improve AI's emulation of human play. Then players will have a more meaningful chance of learning useful things even in single player modes, before going off to get bodied in online. While "online only" players tend to dismiss stuff like improving AI, it is worth noting that some games already (somewhat controversially) rely on bots to "improve" their online play experience. Fortnite started including some bots in lower skill level matches, while Smash Bros Ultimate can match you with a bot online.
The biggest problem with this game is the fact it's not only pretty unbalanced right now, but it's a literal loop-fest. Players tend to stick to loops they know are hard to get out of, and if the other player DOES get out, THEY do the exact same thing. Almost every time I'm about to get a perfect KO, I fall over a few times so the other player won't leave for good 😅
It is a fucking loop fest. They sold this game for its creativity but everyone is doing the exact same 30 second combo all the damn time. This was a waste of money
Players do this in every fighting game unfortunately. Competitive play has destroyed the creativity in fighting games. People don’t want a good fight. They simply want to win. This is precisely why I stopped playing Tekken seriously several years ago. 100+ moves, and people use the same 10 over and over.
A month, almost 2 later, I'm still having so much fun with this game. It's still running at like 600-800 on weekdays which is still good especially with the netcode being really good. I hope it keeps a good population. Really hoping something cool is announced during EVO.
It is more like 400 on weekdays. That's about 30-50 concurrent per region across all ranks and all modes (single player and training mode included). That's unacceptable and I barely find any players in central Europe to play with around my skill level. That's roughly BlazBlue CF levels of population and while BB is somewhat stable the trend for DNF continues downwards. Each day peak is lower than that before. I wanted to keep playing DNF (200 hours in) but it is a waste of time booting this game now. I can't find opponents. Even in rank mode I am matched with high deity monsters who body me. Waiting for 5 minutes in queue just to be murdered again. Player lobbies are usually dead and even harder to find someone to play with around your skill level. And learning a new character is super discouraged because you will lose even more and quicker in rank mode.
Most people buying a fighting game consider it with the question in their head: "Is this something I see myself playing a lot? What is there for me to do in this game to keep me there? Do I think it'll be fun? 50 dollars worth of fun?" That sort of thing. DNF Duel is quickly gonna have a reputation for being mostly about the online, and that online being hardcore. That'll just hurt sales on a base level because that prospect, I assume, is intimidating for a consumer. That, and the fact that there's just a ton of games to buy. You have to kind of sell a lot when you sell a fighting game. As an addendum, you can tell how much value the story mode has for players by whether or not they bothered to unlock Lost Warrior. That's not good for marketing. They're gonna have to work hard to make up for what could almost be called non-content. That story mode is boring as hell and Vanguard assaults a child for no reason. Smirking while doing it, even.
Haven't played story mode but I know Vanguard is holding a demonic possess weapon..They give into the demonic lance for sheer power..The more battles and killing done with the weapon the stronger it becomes..So yeah its for a reason but I assume the story mode didn't really explain it..Vanguards are not good people they are crazy
You were doing so well there until the very end where that "opinion" has nothing to do with the game's current Gameplay Content/etc condition and more so a huge personal gripe you have against the story that's clearly very basic in terms of how so many popular anime's have been done. Fantasy/Fictional magical/spiritual/etc powerful Adults fighting young kids/teens with crazy magical/spiritual/etc powers has been done since forever, You have to relax a bit here, you're looking far too deep into it.
@@sevionus80 and you're taking me too seriously. I just said the story mode is boring, bro. It's not that deep. I had that last bit to more be funny than to criticize.
You nailed it. DNF Duel just needs more to do. Its a beautiful game, sure. But its a game with a very basic storyline and not a whole lot going on. No real customizations, no events, no mini-games, no new characters....just not a lot to keep one involved outside of online play. If they are to keep DNF Duel alive, they gonna have to liven the party up more, feel me?
It needs a beat ‘em up mode that’s genuinely inspired by the source material. Some of us will never play actual DFO and that’s exactly why there should be a mode in this, that pays homage to that. ArcSys have done similar things before too, so no excuse IMO.
@@Kerunou Or they can build a suspenseful storyline like they did in Xrd using the DFO characters. DFO never (iirc) build a story involving multiple Adventurers at once. The story involved one Adventurer who was practically Superman/Superwoman.
More to do or f2p wouldn´t have changed the fate of DNF, most players would have dropped the game regardless after its honeymoon period. The game has some huge issues and questionable design decisions when it comes to gameplay and a lot of people don´t like to put up with the games bs. This was already clear after the 2nd beta.
@@SlowLearner-z3h Welp. Lets hope when EVO comes around (which I think its coming soon) that an answer is given. Itll suck if we end up waiting til VGA.
Unless you absolutely LOVE fighting games, this will always happen. Hell me and my friend stopped playing DnF to try Killer Instinct for the first time and we haven’t been able to stop playing it, but we KNOW we will return to DNF and KoF15 in a while.
I really like DNF Duel due to my nostalgia with Dungeon Fighter Online and the easier input scheme really helped to ease me back into traditional fighting games, but this is not a beginner friendly title. Because of the easier inputs, fighting game vets will rarely drop their combos, if at all, and it would be frustrating for a beginner player to jump in, only to get ToD'd over and over again for making rookie mistakes.
That's the irony of making things easier, is you're making it easier for the sharks too. You have some fighting game vet, who's pulling off an endless block string into a guardbreak on some guy who just learned learned how to anti-air, and think it's noob friendly ? Don't even get me started on the fact you can get juggled for 15-20s in practically every fighter out now with no reliable way around it, besides just don't get hit. I'm fine with long combos, but everything needs a defensive option, especially if new players are your target audience.
@@cmysharingan Pro players aren't even using the simple inputs. Normal inputs give mana regen more quickly. The reason this game isn't beginner friendly is because the game is full offense with next to no Defense options. Rolling requires to know WHEN you can roll. Beginners won't know that. DPs get baited by safe jump ins, Beginners won't know that. Guard Cancel loses to Safe jumps ins as well, beginners won't know that. OTGs make combos even longer in this game than they otherwise would be, meaning you can get juggled for several seconds at a time. Beginners/Casuals HATE that kind of stuff. They don't want to sit there and look at themselves being treated like a combo dummy. Then make the wrong call once and have to wait another handful of seconds again. DNF Duel being friendly towards casual players is a straight lie.
I feel in regards to the F2P thing is it's a tough pill to swallow for the developer. Making games for a relatively small studios with already limited budgets to produce let alone larger studios with shareholders to appease; to risk a F2P model without the backing of established mainstream properties\appeal (which cost a lot to license on their own) is something of an uphill battle. And as much as i love fighting games, like horror movies i dont think there won't be a time they aren't niche. Hate to say it but thats just the nature of it.
The reason I started streaming DNF is because I found my character in design, playstyle, and the way the combo looks/feels (Dragon Knight) at launch. I didn't get into Guilty Gear, MK11, SFV, BlazBlue, etc because the characters that were interesting came out too late as DLC and I was not going to spend $60 to wait until a cool character came out. I think free-to-play would help me keep up with the play styles, mechanics, metas, etc. until I find my character. That's why I'm excited for Project L. My favorite champion might not be in the initial roster but there is so much I can do while I wait and then I can drop money when I finally find the perfect champion match for me.
Part of what helps multiversus specifically is being a platform fighter, those can still get very deep and complex but due to the ridiculous popularity of smash, most people are more comfortable with platform fighters than traditional 2D or 3D fighters so it’s easier to get them to try the game. Even nick brawl got so much more attention and I saw so much more stuff about that game than I ever did about games like strive and dnf duel when they came out because it’s a more wider appealing genre.
I like the game but I can't even play online because of how I get infinite combo'd to death, even looking for rookie lobbies. So that's the reason I haven't played as much as I wanted, but that's just me. People who are better at fighting games are probably going to enjoy the game far more
yup they GG strived this shit. so fucking wack.. its not hype its the same combo into super animation for 15 seconds. Tired of these baby fighting games. we need 1 frame link big boy shit
God, same. I dont have a ton of time to play or practice, so shit's rough. I had been looking to play Inquisitor ever since it was announced, and pre-ordered PC and PS4 copies. Hopped on day 1 and did the tutorials, and managed to get most of the training combos down to the point i could do them semi-reliably. Even went and beat the story mode before hopping online, so i'd have SOME degree of practice against non-dummy opponents. Not a single round won, the first day online. Had one or two close calls, but that was it. Next weekend i figured all the sweatys would have moved up the ranks to where they belonged, and went another 0/20. Its frustrating because i never felt so INSANELY outclassed. Like, i KNOW im a newbie scrub, but at least in other games i get SOME wins, and even the losses dont feel oppressive.
I see plenty of bronze lobbies I even make them for my friends to learn at there own pace of course I get a high ranked player or a Smurf but then I kick them out. Just gotta search similar rank.
@@KraftLawrence1 god I thought I was the only one, I was getting bodied I have like a 16% win rate, I play sfv and I'm just In silver but I have at least a 45% win rate with ken and I'm even better off in strive but with dnf I was getting destroyed. I decided to drop the game for a bit to wait for ranks to stabilize and came back yesterday but couldn't find a single match, I checked steam charts and my jaw dropped when I saw the game only had 164 players on. Keep in mind I live in Asia at the moment and I couldn't find a single person in bronze from, China, Japan or Korea.
It doesn't really matter if people stick with a game. This idea that everyone collectively needs to be playing that one game and nothing else forever is not realistic. DNF Duel is an amazing fighting game and super fun to play but it's not a fighting game I'm going to play every single day and I shouldn't have to play it every single day for it to be good. You can play other fighting games, you can play other games in general ya dig?
@@xxcagedriotxx What game are you referring to that hasn't gotten support from their Devs in the fighting game sphere based on player count? Average player count would be based on the number of players playing every day.... So yeah it would have to be everyday. I don't know about anybody else but back in the day I didn't have time or the money to go to the Arcade every weekend... yet all the timeless classics came from the Arcade. You buy the game, you enjoy it for a little bit, and you come back to it when there is an update or when you feel like playing again. There's nothing wrong with that.
This is what keeps me out of Street Fighter V, I didn't play that game for years and I get such an anxiety attack and hesitate to play because I know im going to have to spend most of my time labbing to learn the new match ups and all those characters I bought throughout the year. Its really scary if you haven't been playing since the beguinning.
I really, REALLY hope the devs of DNF Duel add some more content down the line. I really want new characters to be added. Otherwise that would feel like a waste if they didn’t expand the roster.
Going free to play seems to be the best solution to keep long term engagement with your audience, sadly. I think it works best with multiplayer games. I hope it doesn't become the norm for the entire industry.
Yeah, not every dev can easily go F2P, if DNF duel was F2P the art style would have to drastically change becoming much simpler so the team wouldn't be spending as much time and money to make the models and the animation. And high-quality sprite-based games would have to become a thing of the past as it just isn't possible to pump out skins as much as a F2P model demands.
F2P is not a realistic marketing strategy development teams can do. We can't just have a bunch of characters, solid design and voice acting, rollback net code, constant new BUT free content, solid soundtrack, the whole show, all for free. I know multiversus is doing it but multiversus is funded by Warner brothers, DC, At&t, ect. Multiversus is an anomaly and can't be a standard.
@@mrmeme4203 you know that F2P doesn't mean "we'll make no money", right? Cause it kinda sounds like you don't. F2P can make you MORE money than selling the game if you do it right.
As a casual who wants to get into fighting games, the overwhelming majority feel the exact same, that no fighting game really offers anything new. Strong multiplayer focus, bare bones single player content, same spend 5 hours in practice. Most of the time the story is either entry level, or popcorn mode. When I think about my favourite fighting games I think of MK and it's bonkers story, SoulCalibers create a character (which MK has dabbled in as well). That's where I would really drop some money into. Imagine having a fighting game with no multplayer at all. Pure fighter/rpg game. Imagine Yakuza or Sleeping Dogs with Tekken combat. Add in a create a class/character, and you are starting to get people who aren't established in the fighting game community. A low stakes mode that allows people to get into the game, to be able to kick back and enjoy a fun story, an insane game mode, to make mistakes and not be absolutely destroyed for trying to learn. That's what I would like. Something where "git gud" isn't the fun, but the fun encourages people "git gud". DNF Duel looks amazing, but for me, it's $80 (stupid region pricing), and once I do the story (the whole of 40mins), the only thing to do was multiplayer, and fighting game multiplayer just doesn't interest me. So I refunded it. I really want fighting games to thrive, but I really want to experience something that the genre hasn't given me already. If anyone knows of a single player focused fighting game (for PC), please let me know.
For me, _Def Jam: Fight for NY_ and _Soul Calibur 2 and 3_ have the best singleplayer content in the genre, and that's VERY concerning because they released *OVER 17 YEARS AGO!!!* (in 2005) What the hell are modern companies doing that games almost two decades old still continue to beat them at...?
dude, there are tons of great single player that are similar to fighting games like beatemups, sidescroller, or action games. It's wasteful to focus on making single player content for a genre that is balanced for PvP
these free to play FGs is the new era. project L will 100% have some sort of story. all the characters are already based on riots main game and those have a huge lore. metaversus have the lore on tv and comics. they will make their money on cosmetics just like riots other games. this will fix that player retention and of-course like you mentioned. cross-platform, rollback, and FTP. i love that current FGs are seeing that now. and started to make changes. we are still niche and small but i only see us expanding moving forward.
Smash, SF5 MK11 and Tekken 7 have been doing great for years without being free to play. While the free tag helps is not the real narrative of the situation. Content is what drives players in. Now getting destroyed online because you’re playing against an experienced player is another matter and one that takes place in any competition.
Tbh, all those games that you mentioned are from well-established series that were presented for 20+ years, while noone outside Asia knows jack shit about DNF and the game it's based upon. That's another major reason, why DNF is almost dead after less than 2 months - majority of people just don't care about what this game is and who all these nameless characters are.
@@marcuskane1040 Point noted... BUT the fact still remains that a game will live and die by the content in the game itself regardless of history and/or brand. SF5 was a disaster at release, but it rose to sell more than 6 million copies due to the large amount of content it got with DLC's. Conversely MvC Infinite, a title equally as established was a disaster, never made those sale numbers and it's considered dead by its players. If it's not obvious to you, the difference is one had a continuous stream of content while the other was completely abandoned. Also, people not knowing the IP or the characters is not the issue, for every gaming series must start from 0. At some point in history nobody knew what the fuck Blazblue was, but when you look at it now, it has decades worth of releases and has gathered many fans. Skullgirls, another title that didn't had any history, originally released on 2012 still getting DLC's on 2022, is being played at tournaments and has an active players base on PC. You can use Grandblue and Uniel as examples too. The problem here is that people of today like to think that everything live and dies in the seconds and don't give things room to breath, get stablished and grow. The other main problem is that fighting game devs are the fucking laziest in all gaming industry and don't want to put in the work to get content in their titles. They think that they can get away with arcade levels of gaming designs and expect GTA sale numbers. People are getting tired of this and is showing. Which is the crux of my point, it is not the initial price tag nor the narrative that Max is incisively pushing about free-to-play... it's the content that makes sale numbers, retains player for a bit longer and brings new players. Whether free-to-paly or purchased, if it's rich in content and that content is fairly priced, then it shall succeed.
So we are at this conversation again. I bought DNF Duel at release and I enjoy the game, but the content for base game for DNF Duel is lacking A LOT. In terms of fighting animations, stages, and functionality, it works. However if we are going to have this conversation, we need to address the main killer of many fighting games. The elephant in the room if you will... DLC content. Same situation with Granblue Fantasy Versus. $60 USD on release, and another $60 USD for their Legendary edition which unlocks season pass 1, 2, AND 3 characters (13 in total). This game came out in February 6, 2020. The price for the base game (which is now $15 USD) did not drop for at least 2 YEARS. If they took some more time to add more content and polish the story mode to be more compelling and good, all the while adding features from the start, then the longevity of DNF Duel (or any fighting game for that matter) could appeal to casual audiences. If there is not enough content, then new players won't care to talk about it. Project L will become successful along with Multiversus due to the fact they are based off recognizable franchises alone.
It's simply how it is. I totally would've gotten into DnfD, but the markings on the wall were crystal clear. 50 bucks and weird regional prices fucked it over so hard.
It's wild because GGST had loads of success but didn't the things that Max stated and I still agree with Max. Even people in the FGC are going to be super hesitant to pay full price for a game that they're not familiar with. The games get so much hype in the beginning then fall off the face of the earth. The new Melty Blood had a lot to steam in the beginning but people stopped playing after one week.
People prefer watching DNF over playing it themselves, because Nexon screwed over the regional pricing and half the world just can't reasonably afford it. Essentially the entire South American continent & east Europe/west Asia pop has been nuked because they were initially charging full price for every country (including those with poor income), and even after backlash, they only adjusted the pricing SLIGHTLY. For comparison: Guilty Gear -Strive-: US price: $59.99 | Brazil price: R$ 129,99 which compares to $25.06 (-58.21%) DNF DUEL: US price: $49.99 | Brazil price: R$ 199,90 which compares to $38.54 (-22.89%) It gets even funnier with countries like Russia, where Guilty Gear Strive is -44.58% cheaper than in the US (1999 ₽ / $33.24) and DNF is +6.43% MORE expensive compared to the US (3199 ₽ / $53.20).
Turned 40 this year and have been a fighting game fan since playing the first Mortal Kombat and first Tekken game in the arcades. I got pretty good with virtua fighter 3 in the arcades. Back then, not everything was about infinite combo’s and dlc. I hate all the new games (mostly arc systems) where every player learns the same damaging combo and keeps trying to nail it over and over for the win. I’m frustrated in online play because players will play cheap just to get extra wins. Also, stop with the pre launch dlc announcement. Give us unlockables at launch, like Tekken 2 and 3. It made players play all base characters and invest in the game
Thats what i found disappointing in Tekken 7 cause i hope you could just unlock Characters by playing the game, but then you get everything from the start.
I love DNF duel, very little wrong with it For me I don’t play it as much as I thought I would mostly because i feel like i already got money’s worth very quick Probably because there’s little wrong with it in my eyes
I would love for them to add captain mode from DFO pvp, where its a 3v3 team that takes turns 1v1ing each other. Kinda like KoF but each char is a player.
I been playing fighting games for 27 years and I can ur absolutely right man. Like all the points u made is true especially with how the games are where it’s the worst version at launch, then people wait, and then people complain that the game is too hard or they’re getting bodied. Which I understand it’s frustrating, but then it’s like this game has been out and u can’t expect to meet all inexperienced players or just have easy match ups every time.
It's impossible to get people who play other genres (or even just main other fighting games) to fork over $60 for a fighting game these days, especially a new title.
Personally I think I'm reaching the point where I give up on fighting games. I liked DNF Duel, but if its dead by the end of the year, then that's the last time I ever purchase a fighting game. Was a fan of Soul Calibur 6 and that died, MvCI died, this game is dying. I don't see why I should bother with fighting games anymore unless they're free like Multiverse and Project L.
3:23. Max is pretty much saying the quiet part out loud. OF COURSE the later editions are going to be cheaper and have more stuff. Videogame companies rely on "fear of missing out" sales and do this on purpose. They don't care about "late comers" to the game--they want to have as little content [read: effort] as they can for as much profit NOW. Ever since the advent of videogame consoles connecting to the internet, game companies have gotten extremely lazy and basically treat the initial release as a "beta test" that suckers pay full-price to test their games for them, then add stuff later. You did not have this in the PS2-era and before.
Hi. I'm a casual player. For the longest time I've been interested in getting into fighting games. They're very appealing to me because of their characters and how flashy they are. Also because they seem to be quick pick up and play games and that's something I'm into. The thing is, there are always things that make me simply not enjoy them. Here's a list: * I dislike having to memorize controls in order to make basic moves. To this day, I'm unable to throw a hadouken on command. I wish more fighting games had a simplified move sistem. * On that same note, I wish there were simplified or more intuitive controls. I have always problems remembering which button does what kind of punch and the different effects of each. I get some of them, like in Tekken, but the ones in, let's say, KOF have always confused me. Also, not everybody likes to move the stick back to block or up to jump. Certain moves should be their own button imo. * Going online always ends in constant failures, as I can't win a single match since everybody is just better than me. I kind of wish there was like a tier system so that I'm only ranked against people as bad as I am. That, and I wish there were more comeback mechanics I could use. * Weirdly enough, the single player campaign is important to me, and many fighting games just have an arcade mode where the ending to my character might not even be canon, so that's always a disapointment for me. Maybe an RPG mode where I can pick whomever I wanted and modify stats and clothes would do the game good. I've always liked how Soul Calibur did it way back on the Dreamcast. * Fighting games have more and more characters, which is good, but doesn't help me to find one that suits my style, making me waste time with characters that might not be worth learning their moveset. Also, some characters are just baaaaaaaaaaad, and I'd never know without checking online. * After online disappears, many fighting games become obsolete, so I fear investing money into a game I might not be able to play later. * I wish most DLC characters were free. I already bought the game, so I don't feel like paying extra for characters that I HAVE to have or I won't be able to practice against them for whenever I play against other people. I think these are my biggest issues. Feel free to roast me for the hadouken thing.
I think FGs could use progression systems built into ranking. Like first make ranked be different for every character. Not if you are Gold with Swift Master you are Gold with Berserker. Have a general Player rank. But then a character rank. To give ppl incentives to play other characters online they wouldn't otherwise. To unlock things. My next point is to add things to unlock and acquire as you rank up beyond a title. Make seasonal colors, weapons, costumes, titles, BGMs, stages, etc. Give people FOMO for not being present and online or on the game in some way. We need more outside of New Characters. Make it not just a fg but an immersive and constant experience that'll entice new and old players.
Sounds like a combination of things. The collision of typical fighting game development and modern trends means most new players aren't keen on getting in day 1 compared to past eras. Another is the slow patch/content cycle of ASW licensed fighters, leading to droughts and flawed balance. If things play out as they have, then it won't end well
At first I did not enjoy the game...but now I am liking it a lot. But I also do want to see some big tweaks (defensive options) and balance changes. So hope they are working on that.
Unless Neople is willing to put more resources into the game, I don't think either 8ing or Arcsys is going to make more content for the game. They are contract workers here and there wouldn't be more reasons to make new content unless they are paid for. They also have to redirect resources from Strive because it is Team Red who is handling the 3D rendering games.
having a rougelike seems like a great single player content for the game, cause right now it's increadibly barren in terms of single player. like asset wise it wouldn't be that heavy just some portraits with some stats on it, and some events that change how things will play out, like the rpg mode in GBFV
like the way I see it is basically a dungeon crawler where you choose your character and buff to start you're run with and difficulty, each diffuculty has it's unique effects easy (heals back all damage recieve during fight, ATK and DEF are increased significantly, but recieve less rewards post game and lower score) regular, (no effects) and hard (you get 2 random effects 1 buff and 1 debuff every layer, and higher scores) your character starts with a roster of 3 which can be filled, expand the roster limit, and boost stats by leveling up you have 3 currencies one for characters you acquire after leveling up a character and one for buying at the shop or upgradeding equipment/ items you aquire after beating a fight node/ and a currency post game that can unlock equipment items,encounters, and upgrade starting stats, , and then you have 3equipment and 3items slotsfor each charcter equipment are some items equipment slots are permanent items you add onto a character items have use limits, both of which are divided in rarity you have multiple nodes that are regular fights, special/hard fights (extra rewards if cleared), boss node (only appears after you've cleared certain amount of floors) shops, events, and resting nodes. you progress forward and can't get every node you get a preview of what you'll be facing in fight node. the mode is separated into different layers with a random miniboss in the middle and a final boss you can influence like what boss you'll be fighting or make it harder or easier with event nodes after every fight nodes you can get equipment and or items and voucher to buy a character or spend some on the skill tree of already existing characters, , every normal and special nodes you can randomly get a requirement if fulfilled you get a bonus, shop nodes can let you buy items/equipment/ characters and has a chance to become a dark shop where it exchanges with health rest nodes let's you choose between, some random buffs, (Increase stats, upgrade weapon/ item/ character, replenish health get currency etc.) event nodes are special VN cutcenes that do multiple things (encounter a special fight node with rewards, give you an item, trade for guaranteed/ chance to get an item, etc.
that point about waiting is very interesting because i definitely was in the camp of “im just gonna wait till it gets a big deal” but at this point im not sure
I will die on this hill: Traditional-style fighters die due to a lack of single-player content. That’s it, that’s all. Lower barriers to entry are good and help increase the games lifespan but ultimately people will stop playing when all that there is to enjoy is competitive multiplayer. F2P could cause tunnel vision and amount to a bandaid for a gunshot wound.
Yup. Personally I remember playing Soul Calibur 2 and later 3 for months because of all the extra stuff you could do. Was super hyped when 4 came out and dropped it after two weeks max because there was only the arcade mode.
@@LordBaktor Same for me. Beyond just having more content and stuff to do, a lot of people who enjoy fighters aren’t built for repetitive online competition. It’s a lot more stressful in fighters compared to other genres and many noobs will just opt out.
@@DoesntMatter23 Yeah, I haven't played a fighting game online match in my life. Not for me. The only games I am willing to play online are those where I can play with my friends on the same team, whether it's PvE or PvP doesn't matter as long as we can collaborate to win.
Yea. Max has NO idea what he is talking about when discussing the freemium model. It doesnt have casual appeal. Games like Smash have casual appeal with guest characters. I dont know why he's acting like DNF Duel was going to be ther next big thing.
There really should be a Dead or Alive, Killer Instinct, Fighting EX Layer, Free To Play version of the game. Let people get 2 characters in rotation and online, bare minimum, almost Arcade day level of experience to play. The Character Combo Challenges being the way to practice and learn how to play other characters. Character Pass for those that just want the characters and training mode, Complete Edition for the full disc release with its story mode and avatar customization.
I'll definitely still be playing it. DNF Duel is my first fighting game and I've been having a blast. For other games like guilty gear, I tend to look at the cast and like maybe 2-3 characters which doesn't feel worth it to me cuz i can't one trick, I need pick diversity. In this game I've loved every single character and the visual style is right up my alley.
There's a very good reason why *DNFD* has been quiet, because the main publisher and social media manger is Nexon, and Korean MMO devs/publishers don't like to announce or tease anything till the projects/contents are closer to completion.
@@azureknight729 Yeah patch notes wise, it's standard ASAP dev response. Actual new content though, it's always kept secret till much closer to release, usually between a 3-6 month cycle, then suddenly a whole bunch of new content and events to bring people back to w/e KR game.
@@ligmasphere901 That's not what I mean, and arguably Nexon KR branch is still _kinda_ ok... What I meant is it's how KR publisher & devs content announcement playbook is atm, you would know if you've played on KR servers. Also DNF/DFO is Nexon's *crown jewel* and primary money printing machine, they wouldn't want to fuck up anything related to it and always give Neople any budget they want lol.
I hope they add some more singleplayer modes. I know this will be controversial but due to the town where I live having horrific online coverage, nothing takes me out of a fighting game more then too much focus on online play, fighting games should have a healthy spread of modes, both online and offline, because if your online dies & you have shit offline modes then your game truly dies in the eyes of the vast majority of players, with the exception of diehards FGC players, who will do everything in their power to keep a game alive
I'm in the same boat. It really sucks when most fighting games are solely built around online mostly with little single player content. It is one reason why Soul Calibur is still king for me.
I agree that the game feels incomplete and has a couple of problems, but I don't think making the game free considers the costs of actually needing to make a game and giving back to the devs. A lower price I think would strike a more fair balance, especially if the game is supported with paid dlc, people would feel more comfortable to pay
I love the example of the longer the game is out the more you will likely fight the hardcore gamers. My example was SF4 (Xbox360 Era). I got into it at nearly the end of "Super" and it was already at the point that Maybeevery 10 games, 2 of them will be people on my level.
I kinda regret buying this game, the animations are amazing but players are ridiculously oppressive, too much damage and it was quite expensive for what I get, I play like 4 fours (2 of those in the story mode) and being body only, dunno, is good put is quite lacking, I even forget that I has the game, tried to refund it, got deny XD
SoulCalibur needs to make a true come back. Give me Soul Calibur 2 fighting with all the game modes of soul calibur 3. The thing with fighters these days is that it's all about these long combo strings. I truly hate not being able to play because I guessed wrong once. Soul Calibur and games like it are more forgiving and easier to pick up for casual players that don't have 8 hours a day to practice. SoulCalibur was more about the neutral versus spam a bunch of stuff until I hit you for a 80% combo. But, I also play launcher in DNF Duel so I'm waiting for the buff lol. Multiverses is fun tho. Def about to smash, Smash.
I mean this is just how it is with alot of fighting games without a strong IP or free to play. The reality is fighting games are a workout, where you need to practice your mechanics and combos and learn how to do things. You have to earn and learn your enjoyment. The 1v1 nature of fighting games makes it so that you have no one to blame but yourself when you lose. It forces that grinding, self improvement mentality, which doesn't work with everyone, who just want to play, relax, and/or have fun.
I’m personally waiting for the $30 version. You also have to look at the massive player base vampire that is Multiversus. They’ve sucked up all the players from many games for now. I think seeing the level out of MvS will show wether the alarms bells should be sounded or not
I wish I could pay 50 bucks for the game. Freaking Nexon didn't give us local pricing so the game is around 200 bucks here. Far too expensive to what the game should be worth because they are giving us the price in dollars
@@bloody4558 No way a like foreign friend could like buy it for you on steam for however much it is? It really is a fun game. I honestly think that when you got a big game like Multiverse which is free to play takes the wind out of your sales but that's not the end all be all. Also it's alright not to play DNF all the time but still enjoy it. I'm hopeful things will turn around player count wise.
@@bloody4558 I want to say a VPN could get you around that and let you purchase or create an account from a different region, then gift it to yourself.
@@NotTheWheel yeah, to be honest the game would've gotten twice it's revenue were it not for it's price, I know a lot of people who were extremely interested in the game and are now waiting for a special sale discount to buy it. Imagine how many people would've been playing the game day 1 if no for this? I predict that the game would now have at least 1.2k players consistently playing daily
I am glad Max is the kind of person who has experience in fighting games and still knows the important of a casual audience, this is not something exclusive to fighting games but it seems the FGC is very elitist when it comes to the casual audience. I can never get into games lie Skullgirls because you just get destroyed but I am having a fucking blast with MultiVersus.
enjoyed this game a lot when it dropped, but as a casual fighting game player, there were too many times i ran into chars like crusader, that felt so insanely cheap and broken as hell, that even if "to a highly proficient player, theres ways around it" im not at that level even after hours of playtime and practice, where its so frustrating to be nonstop cheesed, that it just makes me ignore the game altogether and just go back to a way more fun and hype game like Dragonball FighterZ
I agree that fighting games should be more accessible to new players but I don't think going full free to play would work especially needing things like characters and costumes to keep players coming back which would be difficult for someone like Arcsys because of how they make their games. I think a free to try demo could work for fighting games because anyone could pick it up and play it like a free to play game but instead of having to monetize the game, they would just have the full price version available for people to buy if they enjoyed the demo. Multiversus is a good game but I think you still have to put time in to get the characters you want due to getting a small amount of gold while characters that aren't free cost from 1,500 to 3,000 which some people might not have the time for and might prefer buying a full priced game in order to get a full roster a number of modes to play with.
This is partly why I really enjoy Strive. I'm not great at Strive but I'm decent. I usually play often but come back every couple months when new content or patches are added, and I don't get absolutely bodied. But I do remember trying to get into Under Night and Skullgirls and being decimated lmao. I love those games and they're fun, but I just can't find others at my skill level consistently enough to stick around.
yeah I really wish I could have gotten into skullgirls back in the day but I was busy with more important things like 100%ing SMG, so trying to get into it now is seriously impossible cuz everyone online will just destroy you, I don't see that as a negative against the game I simply chose my priorities and I got to live with that now
Man I love this game, but to me it still feels like a prototype almost as if they wanted to see how well a fighting game based off of DFO would do and after enough time has passed then they'll add, more game modes, characters, etc.
One thing people aren't talking about is the lack of regional pricing on steam turning away a lot of people here in Asia, it's supposed to be the equivalent of a "$50" game but because of no regional pricing, it is actually more expensive than $60 games here in Asia. During week 1 of DNF I heard this complaint from one guy in Max's chat so I went to check some Asian social media and saw that it was also complained in China, the biggest fanbase of DFO, the fact that the main fanbase isn't happy with the pricing definitely hurts the sales.
I put in 80+ hours into the game so the 50 bucks were already worth it. There are a lot of single player games which cost 60 bucks and only have 30-40 hours playtime.
I'm liking DNF Duel, but I wish it had something akin to Burst. Even if it was you burn your entire meter into exhausted state, maybe even a more severe version, just a way to break a combo would be so welcome.
All fighting games should be free2play, honestly. That's best for everybody. The problem is that devs see fighting games one dimensional and still think that everybody wants an arcade experience. People want a good game that is easy to get into, gets content at a good rate, and can still be fun at all levels of play. Fighting games are still in the mindset of "We are gonna be expensive as fuck, have absolute barebones content and people will like it because they always have and know nothing else". It's not the beginnings of the internet anymore. Sure, I could buy DNF Duel. What I get is a game with a low player count, almost no content, and the knowledge that if new content comes, I will have to pay for it again, and a player base that has played fighting games for 20 years while I'm a noob. Why the fuck would I buy that? I'm just gonna play multiversus and wait for the Riot fighter that is guaranteed to have a ton of new players that are starting with the fighting game genre at release, free2play with amazing free2play progression and no pay2win content, frequent updates, and the guarantee that all future characters will also be free2play. The choice is really easy here. I'm staying the fuck away from DNF DUEL or any fighting game until the Riot fighter comes out. That's what a ton of other new players are gonna do. DNF Duel will not survive until the end of next year. The buy-in price is just too high for a game that has a player count in the 3-digits, no content, and no customization. The era of the old fighting games will soon be over
Depends on the game, tekken going free to play for instance was already a tried concept that was executed terribly. Brawlhalla's monetization model is very good and multiversus pretty much copied it, but I cant really see street fighter with a season pass, or someone buying ryu emotes and skins. Interest fades away when a fighting game is hard because not everyone is willing to Improve and actually get good. You can get away with spamming Finn backpack in multiversus, but when you do that against someone In tekken youre most likely going to get destroyed.
Pretty much spot on. I think the best model for fighting games now is to launch F2P with a base roster, then take the SF5 approach with passes to fill out the roster and other content. That helps to promote more people to jump in at any point, but also if they enjoy it and want to do more, pay and support the game.
People gotta remember DFO main population is in Korea. In the US it had its niche fan base, constantly trying to catch up to the Korean version but after its major update in releasing the male mage there was no major update after that and the game died down to the point they shut down the NA servers it wasn't until years later they brought it back where it was up speed with the Korean version just that everyone the US had to start over from scratch but they now they had way more content and more new classes to mess around with
1:25 "It's like anime MKX". OMG, I've been saying this since I heard it has a block button and I couldn't agree more. MKX is my favorite fighting game of all time, Guilty Gear X2 was my high school jam and DNF Duel just fills that need for insane anime action with absolute bullshit neutral so well. It's so good.
is frustrating because gameplay wise this games are gorgeous, but they always fail. Thank you max for constantly bringing the topic of player retention and service model, that is the key for the fighting game genre to grow, not making them easy
I bought this game because I had a few friends playing it at the time and I was looking into getting into a new game with them. I played it for about 26 hours (most of which was me playing ranked and getting as high as gold one from bronze) the gameplay is flashy and cool but the staggering lack of defensive options against most characters. if you’re stuck in a combo the only thing you can do is know by what attacks your plus on frames by heart or burn your entire meter in hopes you knock them back. But now that your meters burned getting them away you’ve got nothing you can really use to get a combo together on certain characters. (I played ranger where you as far as I’m aware you get ZERO overhead pressure from any attacks) meaning that your basically either playing the ranged game in hopes they don’t just rush you down again with no way to stop another block string for a while or burn what little meter you might have to pull something off. The games really fun overall it just gets really frustrating after a while when you get stuck in a combo with no feasible way to defend yourself.
As a note none of the friends that were playing the game before me are playing it anymore and I just uninstalled my version yesterday after getting to gold then getting absolutely destroyed for 2/1/2 hours after that not enjoying a minute of it.
I am disappointed by how fighting game developers continue to neglect singleplayer and local multiplayer content. They are fully convinced that all it takes for a fighting game to succeed is Versus Mode and decent online netcode (which, admittedly, is a welcome improvement compared to a few years ago). But it has become an increasingly more difficult purchase to justify, compared to what the competition offers.
The competition for one player content will always smoke the one player content in a fighting game. SFV tried to copy MK's success with story modes and it ended up being a huge waste of money. And MK is one of the best games for one player content, but how does that stack up against, I don't know, Elden Ring? God of War 4? Anything? I think it just makes more sense to make them more about multiplayer, since that's their thing.
Listen if you want "good single player content" just play a single player game when you're done just pop in a multiplayer game it's not that hard Unless you have no variety
Fighters will never be as big as other genres. You either play it and love it and get addicted or you just walk away after a few hours. Just the way it is and that’s never going to change imo.
Arc-sys would have to rework the way it rigs it's character models, allocate development for concept art to allow for skins, I'm personally dreading seeing yet another battle pass in a gaming genre as I'm not a fan of time restricted content.
they dont know how to make free to play game and monetize skin, again thats not easy, the mentality to keep constant updating, arcys not ready yet. I just hope the crossplay for GGST work, sooo they have the basis to make more better game
Dnf/dnf actually has 3 different forms for each character/class to design a model on so it’s not like they have to created something wholly unique from the ground up (they technically used the base fgunner appearance but with mechanic’s top and hair alongside launcher’s goggles for dnf duel’s launcher) but all classes so far uses the 1st awakening form which is the most simplest and basic among all of the forms
I think what doesn't hurt like in the hey-day was a lack of rentals and arcades. Like, it only cost you like 50¢ or so to try out Marvel vs Capcom(god I sound old) or Street fighter 3. That was the initial appeal of fighting games. You'd have to play a lot for it to add up to $50 dollars or more.
as someone who tried to get into skullgirls this year Max is absolutely correct because everyone i face online destroys me.
i just tried the same thing with bbcf with the new rollback. first match fought a guy with 500 wins and i hit the guy like once. guess i will have to find a beginners discord or something.
Dude, I was getting my ass exploded when I tried playing like 7 years ago, idk what I'd do now in a game thats changed so much and is so customizable
@@jasonparks472 Its all about mindset.
When I picked up AC+R I went 100-0 before I got my first win. By the time I was done I had a 50% winrate.
@⁺⓵⓽⓵⓼⓶⓷⓺⓹⓷⓹⓶MaximilianDood very cool thank you maximillian guy
Yeah dude it's really hard to find players that on our skill level because not a lot of them play it, You will get your ass whoop instantly the moment you go online
Other than Free to Play, another important feature that Fighting games need is CROSS-PLAY. This keeps the player pool much higher.
F2P, Rollback, Cross-play... Something something modified Avatar intro.
Blame Sony. Google how much it costs developers to add cross play to a Sony console
Man I just wanna play this game I wish they would put some of these games on Xbox or switch cause I feel like I’m missing out
I'll never understand why crossplay isn't standard in fighting games. SFV has it and it works just fine while also allowing people getting into matches even faster. Because the entire playerbase is now connected instead of divided. If DNF Duel is dead by the end of this year, I'm done with fighting games.
And availability on all platforms
Max is 100% on point with this topic. I used to love playing fighting games when I was a bit younger, but as I have gotten older and have more stuff to do it’s just hard to find time to keep up with a community that has more free time. I got dnf yesterday and could not find a game with someone who has played less than 300 games. Fighting games need to build a stronger casual audience by whatever means necessary, love dnf duel but it will have been a waste of money if I can’t find other players in a similar position to me online. And ultimately part of why I end up not spending on the next cool looking fighting game
This is the main reason I'm so excited for project L, no riot game has ever had a super low casual playerbase
Education is going to be the thing that helps bridge the gap the most. Not knowing what to do in situations is the killer. Even if you get fucked up a lot in fighting games, if you know what to do, there's something to strive for. Not knowing how to deal with things is super annoying
@@CMCAdvanced 100%
I'm gonna disagree, because this game is very accessible. I learned how to play Berserker in a day, didn't hit a wall until the entrance to Gold ranks. 3 weeks later I am Diamond 2 and play 3 characters. It is not difficult to get your foot into DNF
@@MrDeathbydying they just suck at fighting games
How the hell does DNF Duel, the game based off a co-op beat em up, NOT have a beat em up mode but Granblu Fantasy VS, a game based off a turn based JRPG, does?
Because Dungeon Fighter Online, the game DNF Duel is based off still exists. I can't see why they'd put time and resources into a beat em up mode when their main game is exactly that.
It may also be more due to the fact 8ing was the main developer of DNF duel while Arc System was the main/only developer of Granblue Fantasy Vs (who's rpg mode was honestly one of the main reasons I bought it tbh) so while Arc may do something like that 8ing may prefer a more traditional style for fighting games and what they add is ultimately their choice.
@@joshuarolle4915 GBF JRPG game still kicking tho
Cause granblue is amazing but sadly it’s damn near dead 😔
@@joshuarolle4915 Because people on console don't have access to DFO lol.
Hopefully there will be a big announcement for DNF Duel this weekend. The game is great, but they will need to start moving into the “we need to draw more new players in,” mode soon.
That and I do find myself curious on how well the reception for Multiversus will be at EVO. Could very well be the start of something big for free to play if they play their cards right.
As long as they keep the multiversus tourney to 2v2
1v1 is disgusting in that game
Multiversus is a absolute anomaly and the strategy behind the success of multiversus can't ever been seen as a realistic standard.
Can't announce something for a game that won't be there
@@DaviddeBergerac It was design for 2v2 from the ground up..1v1 is just a option for people who don't want to be force to play 2v2..This is why some characters don't work in 1v1 because they was only design to support others and not to destroy opposition
@@BTRshow it really isn’t an anomaly. Good and well-known ip + free + universally platform fighters appeal to more people then traditional fighters = success. If shonen did literally the exact same thing they would see the same if not more success. Same with PlayStation.
I've been trying to get into fighting games recently, and this video perfectly describes my problem. I feel like getting into FGs is like getting into shmups, where you just need to find "the one game" that you enjoy moment-to-moment enough so that you can take loss after loss and still keep at it cause you're having a good time. But that requires just trying a lot of games, which is perfectly feasible for like $10 shmups, but not at all for $60 fighters. So I wait for the sale to check it out, only for there to be no scrubs left and I get bodied. Hell I even bought KOFXV this week cause it was 50% off, and despite that game coming out just MONTHS ago it still has that problem.
This is why in addition to the "cross play, rollback, F2P" triangle you mention, I think that single player content is so important. It makes the game worth purchasing for $60 even if you don't know you'll want to commit to the online, since you know you'll get your money's worth playing offline content anyway.
Same for me. This game got me back to playing Fighting games but the level of play from everyone is so far out of my area that it created a lower motivation to continue playing rank and lobby matches. I am more for single player content than the other two since the developers may shut down the servers.
@Galaxy40k and @RogueBuraiSolo
A simple way to get around that is having someone stable to play with, preferably someone who's just a little better than you so you don't get 100-0d but you still get 10-5d. That'll give you enough of a challenge and someone to check with why certain situations played out a certain way (why didn't that work? how did you get out of that? I couldn't defend against that, what exactly were you doing?).
So, the answer now is to either have a friend that fits the bill or join a discord/community. Also, KoF15 (any of them, really) was never gonna be a game for newcomers, the community is incredibly resilient and dedicated with decades of legacy skill AND you have to learn 3 characters at least. Thankfully, games are getting more accessible, like GGST, DBFZ, Granblue, DNF, etc.
Hope you can find the game that keeps you in, cause I get kicks out of this genre like no other, and I'm obviously not alone in this. Good games.
@@dpedreno Absolutely agree. The best thing to do is get a couple of friends to get into a game with you, together. It's not always going to work out, but the dream is that you all have a lot of fun and improve together. Kind of building your own pool of opponents to "play ranked" with.
That's the crux of fighting games. People who are really good at fighting games can transfer their skills to any other fighting game where's the rest of us pick up a fighting game that looks cool and get absolutely shit on even tho it's day 1. Fighting games are not new player friendly, they're not unskilled player friendly. It's rare for a fighting game to build a bridge that extends to those players. Smash Ultimate is one of those games and I hope Project L will be another.
Feel the same way trying to play fps games lol, everyone in valorant or apex are aim gods at this point
I love that Max is still being brutally honest about DNFD despite the devs adding him to the game.
I thought the max mod was fan made
@@kennethboozer6148 you might wanna look up irony in the dictionary bro.
@@vichnaiev or this person can just be dumb.
it is impossible to know
@@vichnaiev its kinda hard to detect irony and sarcasm through txt maybe add a 🤣 or 😭 so someone knows ur not serious. Does that make sense?
@@kennethboozer6148 It started with the palette swap that looked like our boy. Then the modding community took it to the next level, and Max put the cherry on top with his voicework.
I love DNF Duel, didn't play it too far past release since I could only get two friends to buy it. Still actively playing Multiversus cause I have 3 different friend groups that are all playing it. Cause it's easy to get your friends to play a free game.
I hope people realize that the main competition against fighting games in the casual market isn't other fighting games, it's all the games in the market that are currently free and full of content. My friends didn't drop Street Fighter or Tekken to play Multiversus, they're dropping Apex, LoL, Unite, and Valorant.
Good points
True, but it's also in competition with other, non-fighting, premium titles. It's not always easy to get your friends to buy the game you want to play, and when there's money at stake people are gonna lean towards something they're more likely to enjoy. The more casual they are towards fighting games, the more likely they are to opt for something in a genre that is more squarely in their wheelhouse. I love fighting games, but put a half-dozen full price games in front of me, and I'm more likely to go for an RPG or character action game than a day-one, 1.0.0 fighter. The money-to-playtime ratio just isn't there for me with fighters, I'm not much of a competitor and mainly play in person with friends.
Honestly, every time I wanted to play a game with someone, i bought it for them, lol
@@GeebusCrust I have to say were I am more likely to play a fighting game day one than you hit the nail on the head. the thing a lot of fighting developers seem to believe is that they are competing with other fighting games like it's the days of the Arcade like DNF Dule is a fun game I like it I don't play it much but I like it but the problem is from a game perspective there just isn't much to it so it's hard to recommend to people over other game in different which is a huge problem for fighting games so few of them are trying to be a good value not to say there bad games but it makes them hard to recommend to anyone other than established fighting game fans
Nevermind that Multiversus is a Platform fighter, which is overall more casual friendly than almost any Traditional one.
Max is totally not wrong, I’m really getting my ass kick once I buy it on sale lol 😂
getting my ass kicked in DNF in ways that i never did in strive.
Dude I'm getting my ass kicked NOW, so jump in whenever you want the water will always be hot lol
@@sialiasialis. bro your comment killed me, thank you 😂
@MagicMike Hey, if it makes money it makes money. Devs aren't inclined to do continuous work for free.
@@rpemulis dnf is the definition of anybody can pick the game up and beat you
Granblue, Guilty Gear Strive, and DNF Duel are probably some of the more difficult games for ASW to develop due to the work restrictions during the COVID shutdowns in Japan in 2020-2021. Having to try and work those projects from home must have been tough, probably even more with DNF Duel being a collaboration between ASW, 8ing, and Neople. Sure hope it does well.
@@YourMasta Woah, woah. Take it easy. Many, many companies in gaming have been very clear about how difficult it is to not be in one place and have access to each other and their work being done. The long distance thing straight up doesn’t work, the minutia literally isn’t there for some projects. It works better for some over others, for sure. It’s not practical for everything though and suggesting that it’s just as effective, being remote, over being in one location? Nah. Hell nah. Too many variables and error that happen with remote work, even with how far we’ve come with internet and digital communication. You’re simply giving way too much credit to what’s available now and the reliability therein.
@@YourMasta bro do u know how hard it is just to make a game in general
Let alone a fighting game of dnf's quality?
@@YourMasta You speak from an American perspective, not that of a Japanese corporation struggling to implement WFH
@@Damian-ew1vl what exactly makes it harder for a japanese corporation to pivot into WFH then an american one? Legit curious. I don't get the argument.
@@Mr_Buu Work culture is completely different, most companies are based around work *time* and not task completion, with people often "hanging out" with their co-workers and boss after work, which ends up being a second work time since that's when future plans, etc. are made, ofc this doesn't apply to all companies but on top of this coordinating all systems from scratch to a work from home environment puts additional strain on an already crappy system
This is why single player content is so important. It's cool that the devs are focusing on making the multiplayer the best it can be... but when the game's online scene dies, there's nothing left. Brawl definitely isn't the best Smash game, but it's Subspace Emissary is something that people remember for a long time and even go back and replay to this day. Having other stuff to come back to not only helps the game stand out more, but also helps people remember it more.
Why is Arcade not single player content? If I’m going to play n fighting alone I’m going to cpu versus and arcade
Darien B I agree with you.
That's my exact mentality with ALL fighting games in the past decade. Waiting for the Ultimate/Definitive version. I don't like dealing with "season passes" just to slowly trickle characters into a fighting game. By the time the complete version is released, a lot of times I'm already over it as well and moved on to be hyped about another game. F2P games seem to be the only way to be okay with an "unfinished" game to get into at the beginning.
That and the nature of being constantly fresh with updates and new characters/content while being free to try/play tends to keep more new players coming in over time than a hard purchase game which keeps the player pool from growing stagnant or too small as the game ages.
I feel that's unfortunately just going to be the case for most games in the future. Game's aren't worth some fixed 60 bucks to make anymore for the growing amount of content people expect. Probably only limited story games will be that way. Max is comparing free games that always update to keep a population of players invested but they don't make any real extreme visual or mechanical changes like normal game sequels make (like an ongoing moba vs a fighting game with sequels). I think the FGC expects completely fresh and changed games from the last, but to also have a F2P model with updated content, that really doesn't happen. It just seems there is a contradictory expectation wanting it both ways. For those players who play F2P games, the concept of "unfinished" is irrelevant or moot; they expect a constant live service, there is no end game to reach. It's just a different type of audience and market.
Meanwhile type lumina releases every DLC for free, you can buy it as there is not a "definite edition", and none in sight, 4 free dlcs are coming in the near future.
Yep, I'm mostly the same.
Only game I bought day one was Mortal Kombat 11 on PC, and it just made me extremely sour because of the patches not getting to PC anywhere as fast as consoles.
I had to wait a week to properly play some modes because the balancing was all off and whatnot. Made me a worse person because I recall being really angry with the devs or something.
So yeah, never more.
Just wait for the Ultimate edition with all the characters, so I can fool around, admire the graphics, play the story if any and that's it.
Yes I don’t agree with Max’s take on “keep the content coming to keep people interested”. Just give me a huge, fully developed game from the start like when I was a child and I am happy with that, I will stick around for years. I hated SFV because it came out in a horrible state
Max has an incredibly good point in talking about how content deprived new fighting games are compared to an Ultimate Edition, and that players have realized that. it really is becoming more and more difficult to spend $59.99 on a game with 22 playable characters, knowing that i could wait a year or two and get the same game with 40+ playable characters on-sale for $29.99. this is also making it more and more difficult to talk your friends into buying new fighting games at release so you can play together. it's great hearing Max touch on this topic, good shit.
Somehow enjoyed this game more than strive despite liking xrd a lot. Maining dragon knight and have had a pretty good time though the game does need better defensive options as some charcters can be downright oppressive at times
Get gud
The oppression is the point
@@jinchuriki7022 People still say this?
Ur damn right when u say people get aggressive, cause I have to deal with people like u as a grappler main.
@@KonaSaint504 my man literally had a mild take and got hit with the gg
The refusal to adopt regional prices was also a mistake. Very few will pay a fifth of a minimum wage for an unknown fighting game outside US/EU.
If a video game os 1/5th of your wage you should stop playing games lol
@@igorz4582 not the wage, but the minimum wage. You have to pay what is worth, not what it costs. That's for everything.
@@cegolau you can't objectively decide how much a game is worth and minimum wage is never 300 usd in a first world country
@@igorz4582 yes you can, when you have a job and don't live off of videogames. Also, who the hell cares for the world theory? It's actually based on economic alignment, not strenght. Even if it was about economic strenght, it wouldn't even apply today, as there are lots of countries among the 15 strongest economies in the world that wouldn't belong in the "first world". If you pay attention I'm pointing out a dumb decision that made this company lose a lot of money.
@@cegolau bro how u know they lost money. Also video games aren’t a necessity they’re a luxury bro.
strive still has one of the top playerbases in all fighting game and its an anime game without a universally recognized ip. anime fighters are the king of the jungle (fgc) rn
I have a love and hate relationship with DNF Duel. I love playing Inquisitor and the game have interesting system and mechanics. Start with full bar/mp is an idea I like and makes me feel I'm playing an RPGs or MMORPGS, thus why I pick a character that resembles a class and weapon I like in such games. But the unbalance really is making me hate playing it time to time, like DK, Swift Master, Trouble Shooter (mostly the grenade angle/hitstun and the shotgun), Ranger, even Vanguard have options to keep me locked down while my options to lock them down take forever to come out and don't even travel full screen...while also sharing the spot for the smallest amount of HP and Guard Meter. Like...WHY!?.
Now besides that, the game also have its issues (specially on PC), no rematch prop for whatever reason, matchmaking suddenly stops working and needs you to restart, Keyboard still causes issues in the game, etc. At least the devs are transparent and had keep us updated very week or every other week. Just TODAY they announced there is a balance patch in the making to be released in August and they want to collect more feedback on game issues they are unable to recreate themselfs, to identify causes and fix them.
But I been telling people on steam forums, its Version1 of the game, I also play Dragn Ball Fighterz, it took that game 2 WHOLE YEARS to get in a VERY good balance spot. All fighitng games are so unbalance at launch because you can have the devs playing, sure, but when you have hundreds and thousands of people running matches and using the tools; that's when you find the broken stuff; DBFZ snap meta was born due framedata during Season2...and got patched out by Season3.
Pretty much this. The game is fun, but it does have problems, just as any fg has had when they first come out.
I just really hope the devs keep releasing content and that it can attract more players so we can get a ton of seasons, and as a result a ton of content and balance fixes.
Ranger isn't good lol. Play him and find out how much he gets mauled.
Safe jumps means he can't DP. He has to watch for rolls because all of his normals are punished by them.
He has no air game at all. No ranger ever uses jumping light, jumping 2 is only useable as a combo extender. His only 'real' option in the air is grenade, which is solely for set ups.
Ranger can't just 'jump in' on people, like the rest of the cast can, meaning he's restricted to ground combat, meaning you can hold down block and never take damage. Ranger has no cross ups or instant overheads.
His normal are all so slow that you can't press a button to contest people who manage to get in your face.
Ranger is a character people think is 'strong' when never playing him.
@@A1phaz0ne Oh I agree he isn't that good when compared to the rest, but I was talking about the Inquistor - Ranger matchup.
I already found a Ranger player that punished successful rolls on his normals with grabs so at best you can grab or tech grab vs him. This is a ranger that controlled spaceing really good. That information teached me, as Inquisitor I should relay more on 6S to get in.
He dosen't have a way to contest the air, but one of his standing normals is high enough to prevent the opponent from jumping on fullscreen, his normals do cover 3 different heights on fullscreen to "zone"; wich isnt neccesarely effective but vs a character lacking fullscreen button and long startup/recovery off the options that go quiet far, Inquisitor is zoned out. (unlike say Crussader's wall, Hitman's 6S, SM's [S]/belt, Lost Warrior, etc).
But you do take damage, this game have Guard Gauge, losing your guard leads to take all the chip damage. Rangers only approach you when your guard gauge is low to use spin guns to finish the job and stay out of guard cancel reach but within rage for an slide in confirm. (Wich is why this move have long startup, just like Inq's wheel).
Just as Inquisitor, Inq's faster normal is only 1 frame faster than Ranger's; this is why both characters depend hugely on over committing with DPs if they have a punish window but feel their normals are too slow to confirm.
And as I said at the start, I never said Ranger is strong, I said he is strong in the matchup; Inquisitor, a designed lock-down character; gets zone-out and locked down BETTER by other characters: "have options to keep me locked down while my options to lock them down take forever to come out and don't even travel full screen...while also sharing the spot for the smallest amount of HP and Guard Meter. Like...WHY!?." I would not mind Inq's toolkit if she was allowed to commit at least 1 more mistake..but as it is, she is too fragile. Is a double edge sword, she die in 1-2 touches; but that allows her to gain access to more mana compared to other characters after the same combo.
DNF Duel should’ve probably been free-to-play, and it definitely should’ve had some kind of dungeon mode in it. Given the beat 'em up game it’s based on I was surprised it didn’t turn out to be a F2P game with a big dungeon mode; kind of figured it’d basically be the fighting game version of Dungeon Fighter Online.
I was hoping the single player portion had some type of dungeon mode, since that's what the IP was famous for. Something similar to what Granblue did.
Yeah should've been F2P
While I agree that it shouldve had a dungeon mode, ArcSys/Eighting is not the kind of people to make their games f2p. Yes it makes sense since the original game was but what else can they offer? They work so hard on their characters that they do everything else as a secondary objective. It sucks, but I believe they will give us more.
@@captainmalice if it was f2p and offered cosmetic outfits for cash, alongside usual f2p fare of pay or play for characters, it would probably make more, long term, from having a larger amount of players paying anywhere between nothing, and more than the base game cost. I love the look of DNF but after buying into several games that limited their player base, I'm so hesitant to get into yet another one while it's $60. I can't be alone in this thought.
What if DNF instead of being free to play, it costs $20-25? On top of that, what if a couple characters + online/player matches would be free-to-try twice a week (48 hours) for an entire month after release (a timed offer)? Is that model more plausible instead of making it completely free to play? At least there would be some guaranteed money up front.
The fighting game genre is already super niche and making games within it completely free to play while offering rollback networking, great characters, amazing matchmaking, etc is a huge risk for investment especially if the IP isn't that well known, no?
WB and Riot can afford to make free to play games because they are huuuge companies that have tons of $$$.
My big problem with Max's push for Free to Play games is the fact that those games tend towards needing to be online all the time and having no offline content, let alone anything for single players who actually want some kind of story content.
I’ll never understand why people don’t play the wide selection of godlike single player games instead of buying a fighting game to play a really crappy and gimped single player experience where the A.I. is usually designed to cheat with button input reading and such, and it’s not even like a real or proper challenge compared to playing a single player crafted game or something. Single player content is truly a waste of time if the games balance and mechanics are specifically catered and designed around human vs human interaction. So much better to play a single player game where it’s properly designed around A.I. and you enjoying yourself within the world.
It’s like the same deal when devs make a very single player designed game and then shoe horn crappy multiplayer into it. I don’t know why people want games to be out of character so bad rather than playing the game that specializes in what they want.
Yeah I have the same concern.
Usually F2P games lack much offline content or are completely unplayable if the servers are cut off since so much is tied to the online environment.
@@Swillo 💯💯💯
Completely agreed. Not to mention, the lack of content in general (wasn't this the FGC's main complaint about SFV's launch?), the lack of game ownership, the much more aggressive monetization schemes and grind really hurts the experience. I'm really concerned about the future of fighting games with this sudden F2P push.
@@Starnana KI does it decently but it's a bit of an edge case. I guess we'll see how functional it'll be if online functionality is ever cut off.
Not enough fighting games try to bother with drawing in the solo player. That is why NetherRealm games do so well because they look at both groups. At the end of the day while the online will carry a game to the end the thing that will make it last forever is its offline modes. Look at Smash as a fighting game. A majority of the content is singleplayer content. DNF is an amazing game that just lacks a lot of the necessary things that make me want to come back to it. Challenges are cool in the game but they are so advance that its not about how good you are at an actual match its about combo memorization. I will be the first to admit that I suck at combos but what I am good at is learning the fundamentals.
Right its why I stuck around Soul Caliber 6 for as long as I did it had enough single player content to keep me busy while i slowly learned how to play the game at the same time heck even Tekken 7 had enough to keep me busy for a bit with treasure battle and its "okay" story mode
@Keshuel Offline modes can help train players by giving them a chance to slowly get into the game without having to get their asses kick the moment they jump online or just giving them options other than to jump online. Melee isn't a great example because that game is more of a spectators sport because of the amount of effort it takes to get into it. Plus it's still alive from more than just online. CS:GO and TF2, while are online games, have the benefit of have non pvp modes so that you can at least have an understanding of the game play without having some 1000hr player kill you over and over (or do something entirely different like cs:go surfing). DnF duel lacks any offline options so if you don't want to play people you literally can't play the game in any other way besides the basic CPU vs Player. And finally, a fighting game should never be just about combo memorizing. Not only is there more to getting good than memorizing combos, but there's situations you have to learn to even get those combos. Doesn't matter if you know every characters 100% combos, if you can't land the hit because your opponent knew how to prevent you from even hitting them in the first place, your not actually good.
> That is why NetherRealm games do so well because they look at both group
MK11 is practically dead online and seen as a fucking joke competitively. MK almost exclusively relies on brand recognition over everything else because their games are always front-loaded within the first month but immediately die out. The bulk of Smash content is multiplayer its single mode doesn't offer anything but survival and the assortment of repetition to unlock useless items and trophies.
@@ChocolateBar999 Smash still offers a decent single player with more than just survival. Classic mode (essentially arcade mode), challenge mode which depending on the game can be fun or just straight irritating like some other games, and other such minigame modes and even a stage builder. Smash content may be mostly multiplayer but their still is plenty to do by yourself. Also no fighting game has lasted in popularity past the first 2-3 weeks. Even DBFighterz had a huge drop in players after the first 2 weeks.
@Keshuel The next trick is to make offline modes complement and work with online modes. One of the obvious things is to allow players to do other stuff while the game searches for an online match. For a more extreme scenario, SFV saw more people searching for online matches in order to cheese their way through the abysmal Survival Mode. Another obvious thing, though more difficult to pursue, is to improve AI's emulation of human play. Then players will have a more meaningful chance of learning useful things even in single player modes, before going off to get bodied in online.
While "online only" players tend to dismiss stuff like improving AI, it is worth noting that some games already (somewhat controversially) rely on bots to "improve" their online play experience. Fortnite started including some bots in lower skill level matches, while Smash Bros Ultimate can match you with a bot online.
The biggest problem with this game is the fact it's not only pretty unbalanced right now, but it's a literal loop-fest.
Players tend to stick to loops they know are hard to get out of, and if the other player DOES get out, THEY do the exact same thing.
Almost every time I'm about to get a perfect KO, I fall over a few times so the other player won't leave for good 😅
It is a fucking loop fest. They sold this game for its creativity but everyone is doing the exact same 30 second combo all the damn time. This was a waste of money
Players do this in every fighting game unfortunately. Competitive play has destroyed the creativity in fighting games. People don’t want a good fight. They simply want to win. This is precisely why I stopped playing Tekken seriously several years ago. 100+ moves, and people use the same 10 over and over.
@@Matayis_Patchbelly uhhh every fighting game is like that
@@captainmega6310 Yes. I mentioned that in my original comment. Thanks for reiterating though!👍🏻
@@Matayis_Patchbelly no you didn't
A month, almost 2 later, I'm still having so much fun with this game. It's still running at like 600-800 on weekdays which is still good especially with the netcode being really good. I hope it keeps a good population. Really hoping something cool is announced during EVO.
It is more like 400 on weekdays. That's about 30-50 concurrent per region across all ranks and all modes (single player and training mode included). That's unacceptable and I barely find any players in central Europe to play with around my skill level. That's roughly BlazBlue CF levels of population and while BB is somewhat stable the trend for DNF continues downwards. Each day peak is lower than that before.
I wanted to keep playing DNF (200 hours in) but it is a waste of time booting this game now. I can't find opponents. Even in rank mode I am matched with high deity monsters who body me. Waiting for 5 minutes in queue just to be murdered again. Player lobbies are usually dead and even harder to find someone to play with around your skill level. And learning a new character is super discouraged because you will lose even more and quicker in rank mode.
Breaking News!: *O_O DNF Duel servers will shutdown Oct 31st! They announced it at the panel this morning T_T*
@@zeokenx2 Where is this info at? Game has only been out for a little over a month. I was about to buy it but can't find that any where.
@@Cavemanheartrock they're trolling hard core lmao
Most people buying a fighting game consider it with the question in their head: "Is this something I see myself playing a lot? What is there for me to do in this game to keep me there? Do I think it'll be fun? 50 dollars worth of fun?"
That sort of thing.
DNF Duel is quickly gonna have a reputation for being mostly about the online, and that online being hardcore. That'll just hurt sales on a base level because that prospect, I assume, is intimidating for a consumer. That, and the fact that there's just a ton of games to buy.
You have to kind of sell a lot when you sell a fighting game.
As an addendum, you can tell how much value the story mode has for players by whether or not they bothered to unlock Lost Warrior. That's not good for marketing. They're gonna have to work hard to make up for what could almost be called non-content. That story mode is boring as hell and Vanguard assaults a child for no reason. Smirking while doing it, even.
The reason why fighting games need more than just good netcode . Must casuals don't want to play online as much
Haven't played story mode but I know Vanguard is holding a demonic possess weapon..They give into the demonic lance for sheer power..The more battles and killing done with the weapon the stronger it becomes..So yeah its for a reason but I assume the story mode didn't really explain it..Vanguards are not good people they are crazy
You were doing so well there until the very end where that "opinion" has nothing to do with the game's current Gameplay Content/etc condition and more so a huge personal gripe you have against the story that's clearly very basic in terms of how so many popular anime's have been done.
Fantasy/Fictional magical/spiritual/etc powerful Adults
fighting
young kids/teens with crazy magical/spiritual/etc powers has been done since forever,
You have to relax a bit here, you're looking far too deep into it.
@@sevionus80 and you're taking me too seriously. I just said the story mode is boring, bro. It's not that deep. I had that last bit to more be funny than to criticize.
@@DaviddeBergerac Yes because, all UA-cam comments come built in with Sarcasm revealing technology lol
Fair winds bub
You nailed it. DNF Duel just needs more to do. Its a beautiful game, sure. But its a game with a very basic storyline and not a whole lot going on. No real customizations, no events, no mini-games, no new characters....just not a lot to keep one involved outside of online play. If they are to keep DNF Duel alive, they gonna have to liven the party up more, feel me?
It needs a beat ‘em up mode that’s genuinely inspired by the source material. Some of us will never play actual DFO and that’s exactly why there should be a mode in this, that pays homage to that. ArcSys have done similar things before too, so no excuse IMO.
@@Kerunou Or they can build a suspenseful storyline like they did in Xrd using the DFO characters. DFO never (iirc) build a story involving multiple Adventurers at once. The story involved one Adventurer who was practically Superman/Superwoman.
More to do or f2p wouldn´t have changed the fate of DNF, most players would have dropped the game regardless after its honeymoon period. The game has some huge issues and questionable design decisions when it comes to gameplay and a lot of people don´t like to put up with the games bs. This was already clear after the 2nd beta.
@@SlowLearner-z3h Welp. Lets hope when EVO comes around (which I think its coming soon) that an answer is given. Itll suck if we end up waiting til VGA.
Unless you absolutely LOVE fighting games, this will always happen. Hell me and my friend stopped playing DnF to try Killer Instinct for the first time and we haven’t been able to stop playing it, but we KNOW we will return to DNF and KoF15 in a while.
@⁺⓵⓽⓵⓼⓶⓷⓺⓹⓷⓹⓶MaximilianDood Its a Scam!
I really like DNF Duel due to my nostalgia with Dungeon Fighter Online and the easier input scheme really helped to ease me back into traditional fighting games, but this is not a beginner friendly title. Because of the easier inputs, fighting game vets will rarely drop their combos, if at all, and it would be frustrating for a beginner player to jump in, only to get ToD'd over and over again for making rookie mistakes.
@⁺⓵⓽⓵⓼⓶⓷⓺⓹⓷⓹⓶MaximilianDood begone BOT!
@@Mikedot dont forget to report.
That's the irony of making things easier, is you're making it easier for the sharks too. You have some fighting game vet, who's pulling off an endless block string into a guardbreak on some guy who just learned learned how to anti-air, and think it's noob friendly ? Don't even get me started on the fact you can get juggled for 15-20s in practically every fighter out now with no reliable way around it, besides just don't get hit. I'm fine with long combos, but everything needs a defensive option, especially if new players are your target audience.
@@cmysharingan Pro players aren't even using the simple inputs. Normal inputs give mana regen more quickly.
The reason this game isn't beginner friendly is because the game is full offense with next to no Defense options. Rolling requires to know WHEN you can roll. Beginners won't know that.
DPs get baited by safe jump ins, Beginners won't know that.
Guard Cancel loses to Safe jumps ins as well, beginners won't know that.
OTGs make combos even longer in this game than they otherwise would be, meaning you can get juggled for several seconds at a time. Beginners/Casuals HATE that kind of stuff. They don't want to sit there and look at themselves being treated like a combo dummy. Then make the wrong call once and have to wait another handful of seconds again.
DNF Duel being friendly towards casual players is a straight lie.
@@A1phaz0ne rolling doesn't really work with some characters that have multiple attacks or back and front hit radius.
I feel in regards to the F2P thing is it's a tough pill to swallow for the developer. Making games for a relatively small studios with already limited budgets to produce let alone larger studios with shareholders to appease; to risk a F2P model without the backing of established mainstream properties\appeal (which cost a lot to license on their own) is something of an uphill battle. And as much as i love fighting games, like horror movies i dont think there won't be a time they aren't niche. Hate to say it but thats just the nature of it.
The cycle of:
"I'll get into it later" to
"I didn't get into it when it came out so I'll wait for the next game and jump on when it launches"
The reason I started streaming DNF is because I found my character in design, playstyle, and the way the combo looks/feels (Dragon Knight) at launch. I didn't get into Guilty Gear, MK11, SFV, BlazBlue, etc because the characters that were interesting came out too late as DLC and I was not going to spend $60 to wait until a cool character came out. I think free-to-play would help me keep up with the play styles, mechanics, metas, etc. until I find my character. That's why I'm excited for Project L. My favorite champion might not be in the initial roster but there is so much I can do while I wait and then I can drop money when I finally find the perfect champion match for me.
Part of what helps multiversus specifically is being a platform fighter, those can still get very deep and complex but due to the ridiculous popularity of smash, most people are more comfortable with platform fighters than traditional 2D or 3D fighters so it’s easier to get them to try the game. Even nick brawl got so much more attention and I saw so much more stuff about that game than I ever did about games like strive and dnf duel when they came out because it’s a more wider appealing genre.
I love it, it's more fun to me than Strive, really hope there's a future for this game
I like the game but I can't even play online because of how I get infinite combo'd to death, even looking for rookie lobbies. So that's the reason I haven't played as much as I wanted, but that's just me. People who are better at fighting games are probably going to enjoy the game far more
yup they GG strived this shit. so fucking wack.. its not hype its the same combo into super animation for 15 seconds. Tired of these baby fighting games. we need 1 frame link big boy shit
God, same. I dont have a ton of time to play or practice, so shit's rough. I had been looking to play Inquisitor ever since it was announced, and pre-ordered PC and PS4 copies. Hopped on day 1 and did the tutorials, and managed to get most of the training combos down to the point i could do them semi-reliably. Even went and beat the story mode before hopping online, so i'd have SOME degree of practice against non-dummy opponents.
Not a single round won, the first day online. Had one or two close calls, but that was it. Next weekend i figured all the sweatys would have moved up the ranks to where they belonged, and went another 0/20. Its frustrating because i never felt so INSANELY outclassed. Like, i KNOW im a newbie scrub, but at least in other games i get SOME wins, and even the losses dont feel oppressive.
@@KraftLawrence1 It’s because the game is kinda dogshit tbh I had a similar experience playing it theres just no defense
I see plenty of bronze lobbies I even make them for my friends to learn at there own pace of course I get a high ranked player or a Smurf but then I kick them out. Just gotta search similar rank.
@@KraftLawrence1 god I thought I was the only one, I was getting bodied I have like a 16% win rate, I play sfv and I'm just In silver but I have at least a 45% win rate with ken and I'm even better off in strive but with dnf I was getting destroyed. I decided to drop the game for a bit to wait for ranks to stabilize and came back yesterday but couldn't find a single match, I checked steam charts and my jaw dropped when I saw the game only had 164 players on. Keep in mind I live in Asia at the moment and I couldn't find a single person in bronze from, China, Japan or Korea.
It doesn't really matter if people stick with a game. This idea that everyone collectively needs to be playing that one game and nothing else forever is not realistic. DNF Duel is an amazing fighting game and super fun to play but it's not a fighting game I'm going to play every single day and I shouldn't have to play it every single day for it to be good. You can play other fighting games, you can play other games in general ya dig?
No. You should only play 1 game rhe rest of your life.
Facts
It really does matter. Devs don't support games that aren't being played. No one said it has to be everyday. It's about average player count.
@@xxcagedriotxx What game are you referring to that hasn't gotten support from their Devs in the fighting game sphere based on player count? Average player count would be based on the number of players playing every day.... So yeah it would have to be everyday. I don't know about anybody else but back in the day I didn't have time or the money to go to the Arcade every weekend... yet all the timeless classics came from the Arcade. You buy the game, you enjoy it for a little bit, and you come back to it when there is an update or when you feel like playing again. There's nothing wrong with that.
@@NotTheWheel That can be said about games in general. But since you need an example, MvC: I.
This is what keeps me out of Street Fighter V, I didn't play that game for years and I get such an anxiety attack and hesitate to play because I know im going to have to spend most of my time labbing to learn the new match ups and all those characters I bought throughout the year. Its really scary if you haven't been playing since the beguinning.
I can relate to this 💯
I really, REALLY hope the devs of DNF Duel add some more content down the line. I really want new characters to be added. Otherwise that would feel like a waste if they didn’t expand the roster.
IKR, currently inhaling copium waiting for spectre to drop in DNF
Going free to play seems to be the best solution to keep long term engagement with your audience, sadly. I think it works best with multiplayer games. I hope it doesn't become the norm for the entire industry.
Yeah, not every dev can easily go F2P, if DNF duel was F2P the art style would have to drastically change becoming much simpler so the team wouldn't be spending as much time and money to make the models and the animation. And high-quality sprite-based games would have to become a thing of the past as it just isn't possible to pump out skins as much as a F2P model demands.
F2P is not a realistic marketing strategy development teams can do. We can't just have a bunch of characters, solid design and voice acting, rollback net code, constant new BUT free content, solid soundtrack, the whole show, all for free. I know multiversus is doing it but multiversus is funded by Warner brothers, DC, At&t, ect. Multiversus is an anomaly and can't be a standard.
If project L makes bank they will all follow suit
I’ll just go back to old classics I guess
@@mrmeme4203 you know that F2P doesn't mean "we'll make no money", right? Cause it kinda sounds like you don't. F2P can make you MORE money than selling the game if you do it right.
@@vichnaiev emphasis on "can"
As a casual who wants to get into fighting games, the overwhelming majority feel the exact same, that no fighting game really offers anything new. Strong multiplayer focus, bare bones single player content, same spend 5 hours in practice. Most of the time the story is either entry level, or popcorn mode. When I think about my favourite fighting games I think of MK and it's bonkers story, SoulCalibers create a character (which MK has dabbled in as well). That's where I would really drop some money into.
Imagine having a fighting game with no multplayer at all. Pure fighter/rpg game. Imagine Yakuza or Sleeping Dogs with Tekken combat. Add in a create a class/character, and you are starting to get people who aren't established in the fighting game community. A low stakes mode that allows people to get into the game, to be able to kick back and enjoy a fun story, an insane game mode, to make mistakes and not be absolutely destroyed for trying to learn. That's what I would like. Something where "git gud" isn't the fun, but the fun encourages people "git gud".
DNF Duel looks amazing, but for me, it's $80 (stupid region pricing), and once I do the story (the whole of 40mins), the only thing to do was multiplayer, and fighting game multiplayer just doesn't interest me. So I refunded it. I really want fighting games to thrive, but I really want to experience something that the genre hasn't given me already.
If anyone knows of a single player focused fighting game (for PC), please let me know.
I hope Street Fighter 6 puts some effort to singleplayer experience. It would be great to see a game really focus on that as well.
For me, _Def Jam: Fight for NY_ and _Soul Calibur 2 and 3_ have the best singleplayer content in the genre, and that's VERY concerning because they released *OVER 17 YEARS AGO!!!* (in 2005)
What the hell are modern companies doing that games almost two decades old still continue to beat them at...?
dude, there are tons of great single player that are similar to fighting games like beatemups, sidescroller, or action games.
It's wasteful to focus on making single player content for a genre that is balanced for PvP
these free to play FGs is the new era. project L will 100% have some sort of story. all the characters are already based on riots main game and those have a huge lore. metaversus have the lore on tv and comics. they will make their money on cosmetics just like riots other games. this will fix that player retention and of-course like you mentioned. cross-platform, rollback, and FTP.
i love that current FGs are seeing that now. and started to make changes. we are still niche and small but i only see us expanding moving forward.
Smash, SF5 MK11 and Tekken 7 have been doing great for years without being free to play. While the free tag helps is not the real narrative of the situation. Content is what drives players in.
Now getting destroyed online because you’re playing against an experienced player is another matter and one that takes place in any competition.
Tbh, all those games that you mentioned are from well-established series that were presented for 20+ years, while noone outside Asia knows jack shit about DNF and the game it's based upon. That's another major reason, why DNF is almost dead after less than 2 months - majority of people just don't care about what this game is and who all these nameless characters are.
@@marcuskane1040 Point noted... BUT the fact still remains that a game will live and die by the content in the game itself regardless of history and/or brand. SF5 was a disaster at release, but it rose to sell more than 6 million copies due to the large amount of content it got with DLC's. Conversely MvC Infinite, a title equally as established was a disaster, never made those sale numbers and it's considered dead by its players. If it's not obvious to you, the difference is one had a continuous stream of content while the other was completely abandoned.
Also, people not knowing the IP or the characters is not the issue, for every gaming series must start from 0. At some point in history nobody knew what the fuck Blazblue was, but when you look at it now, it has decades worth of releases and has gathered many fans. Skullgirls, another title that didn't had any history, originally released on 2012 still getting DLC's on 2022, is being played at tournaments and has an active players base on PC. You can use Grandblue and Uniel as examples too.
The problem here is that people of today like to think that everything live and dies in the seconds and don't give things room to breath, get stablished and grow. The other main problem is that fighting game devs are the fucking laziest in all gaming industry and don't want to put in the work to get content in their titles. They think that they can get away with arcade levels of gaming designs and expect GTA sale numbers. People are getting tired of this and is showing. Which is the crux of my point, it is not the initial price tag nor the narrative that Max is incisively pushing about free-to-play... it's the content that makes sale numbers, retains player for a bit longer and brings new players. Whether free-to-paly or purchased, if it's rich in content and that content is fairly priced, then it shall succeed.
So we are at this conversation again. I bought DNF Duel at release and I enjoy the game, but the content for base game for DNF Duel is lacking A LOT.
In terms of fighting animations, stages, and functionality, it works. However if we are going to have this conversation, we need to address the main killer of many fighting games. The elephant in the room if you will...
DLC content.
Same situation with Granblue Fantasy Versus. $60 USD on release, and another $60 USD for their Legendary edition which unlocks season pass 1, 2, AND 3 characters (13 in total).
This game came out in February 6, 2020. The price for the base game (which is now $15 USD) did not drop for at least 2 YEARS.
If they took some more time to add more content and polish the story mode to be more compelling and good, all the while adding features from the start, then the longevity of DNF Duel (or any fighting game for that matter) could appeal to casual audiences.
If there is not enough content, then new players won't care to talk about it. Project L will become successful along with Multiversus due to the fact they are based off recognizable franchises alone.
It's simply how it is. I totally would've gotten into DnfD, but the markings on the wall were crystal clear. 50 bucks and weird regional prices fucked it over so hard.
It's wild because GGST had loads of success but didn't the things that Max stated and I still agree with Max. Even people in the FGC are going to be super hesitant to pay full price for a game that they're not familiar with. The games get so much hype in the beginning then fall off the face of the earth. The new Melty Blood had a lot to steam in the beginning but people stopped playing after one week.
People prefer watching DNF over playing it themselves, because Nexon screwed over the regional pricing and half the world just can't reasonably afford it. Essentially the entire South American continent & east Europe/west Asia pop has been nuked because they were initially charging full price for every country (including those with poor income), and even after backlash, they only adjusted the pricing SLIGHTLY. For comparison:
Guilty Gear -Strive-:
US price: $59.99 | Brazil price: R$ 129,99 which compares to $25.06 (-58.21%)
DNF DUEL:
US price: $49.99 | Brazil price: R$ 199,90 which compares to $38.54 (-22.89%)
It gets even funnier with countries like Russia, where Guilty Gear Strive is -44.58% cheaper than in the US (1999 ₽ / $33.24)
and DNF is +6.43% MORE expensive compared to the US (3199 ₽ / $53.20).
Turned 40 this year and have been a fighting game fan since playing the first Mortal Kombat and first Tekken game in the arcades. I got pretty good with virtua fighter 3 in the arcades. Back then, not everything was about infinite combo’s and dlc. I hate all the new games (mostly arc systems) where every player learns the same damaging combo and keeps trying to nail it over and over for the win. I’m frustrated in online play because players will play cheap just to get extra wins. Also, stop with the pre launch dlc announcement. Give us unlockables at launch, like Tekken 2 and 3. It made players play all base characters and invest in the game
Thats what i found disappointing in Tekken 7 cause i hope you could just unlock Characters by playing the game, but then you get everything from the start.
Preach!
I love DNF duel, very little wrong with it
For me I don’t play it as much as I thought I would mostly because i feel like i already got money’s worth very quick
Probably because there’s little wrong with it in my eyes
I'm enjoying it a lot too
DNF needs more transparency about DLC. With the games tag being, “Who’s next?” We should be knowing who’s next.
I would love for them to add captain mode from DFO pvp, where its a 3v3 team that takes turns 1v1ing each other. Kinda like KoF but each char is a player.
I been playing fighting games for 27 years and I can ur absolutely right man. Like all the points u made is true especially with how the games are where it’s the worst version at launch, then people wait, and then people complain that the game is too hard or they’re getting bodied. Which I understand it’s frustrating, but then it’s like this game has been out and u can’t expect to meet all inexperienced players or just have easy match ups every time.
It's impossible to get people who play other genres (or even just main other fighting games) to fork over $60 for a fighting game these days, especially a new title.
Personally I think I'm reaching the point where I give up on fighting games. I liked DNF Duel, but if its dead by the end of the year, then that's the last time I ever purchase a fighting game.
Was a fan of Soul Calibur 6 and that died, MvCI died, this game is dying. I don't see why I should bother with fighting games anymore unless they're free like Multiverse and Project L.
3:23. Max is pretty much saying the quiet part out loud. OF COURSE the later editions are going to be cheaper and have more stuff. Videogame companies rely on "fear of missing out" sales and do this on purpose. They don't care about "late comers" to the game--they want to have as little content [read: effort] as they can for as much profit NOW. Ever since the advent of videogame consoles connecting to the internet, game companies have gotten extremely lazy and basically treat the initial release as a "beta test" that suckers pay full-price to test their games for them, then add stuff later. You did not have this in the PS2-era and before.
Hi. I'm a casual player. For the longest time I've been interested in getting into fighting games. They're very appealing to me because of their characters and how flashy they are. Also because they seem to be quick pick up and play games and that's something I'm into.
The thing is, there are always things that make me simply not enjoy them. Here's a list:
* I dislike having to memorize controls in order to make basic moves. To this day, I'm unable to throw a hadouken on command. I wish more fighting games had a simplified move sistem.
* On that same note, I wish there were simplified or more intuitive controls. I have always problems remembering which button does what kind of punch and the different effects of each. I get some of them, like in Tekken, but the ones in, let's say, KOF have always confused me. Also, not everybody likes to move the stick back to block or up to jump. Certain moves should be their own button imo.
* Going online always ends in constant failures, as I can't win a single match since everybody is just better than me. I kind of wish there was like a tier system so that I'm only ranked against people as bad as I am. That, and I wish there were more comeback mechanics I could use.
* Weirdly enough, the single player campaign is important to me, and many fighting games just have an arcade mode where the ending to my character might not even be canon, so that's always a disapointment for me. Maybe an RPG mode where I can pick whomever I wanted and modify stats and clothes would do the game good. I've always liked how Soul Calibur did it way back on the Dreamcast.
* Fighting games have more and more characters, which is good, but doesn't help me to find one that suits my style, making me waste time with characters that might not be worth learning their moveset. Also, some characters are just baaaaaaaaaaad, and I'd never know without checking online.
* After online disappears, many fighting games become obsolete, so I fear investing money into a game I might not be able to play later.
* I wish most DLC characters were free. I already bought the game, so I don't feel like paying extra for characters that I HAVE to have or I won't be able to practice against them for whenever I play against other people.
I think these are my biggest issues. Feel free to roast me for the hadouken thing.
I'm way more casual than you, and I absolutely agree with all the point.
I'm waiting for Project L knowing Riot will delivers.
Looks like the game you maybe looking for is Multiversus.
I think FGs could use progression systems built into ranking.
Like first make ranked be different for every character. Not if you are Gold with Swift Master you are Gold with Berserker. Have a general Player rank. But then a character rank. To give ppl incentives to play other characters online they wouldn't otherwise. To unlock things.
My next point is to add things to unlock and acquire as you rank up beyond a title. Make seasonal colors, weapons, costumes, titles, BGMs, stages, etc. Give people FOMO for not being present and online or on the game in some way. We need more outside of New Characters. Make it not just a fg but an immersive and constant experience that'll entice new and old players.
There is just 1 single answer for any fighting game. Cross play. Anime games without cross play are set to die.
Plus, making a free version
Sounds like a combination of things. The collision of typical fighting game development and modern trends means most new players aren't keen on getting in day 1 compared to past eras. Another is the slow patch/content cycle of ASW licensed fighters, leading to droughts and flawed balance.
If things play out as they have, then it won't end well
At first I did not enjoy the game...but now I am liking it a lot. But I also do want to see some big tweaks (defensive options) and balance changes. So hope they are working on that.
Unless Neople is willing to put more resources into the game, I don't think either 8ing or Arcsys is going to make more content for the game. They are contract workers here and there wouldn't be more reasons to make new content unless they are paid for. They also have to redirect resources from Strive because it is Team Red who is handling the 3D rendering games.
having a rougelike seems like a great single player content for the game, cause right now it's increadibly barren in terms of single player. like asset wise it wouldn't be that heavy just some portraits with some stats on it, and some events that change how things will play out, like the rpg mode in GBFV
like the way I see it is basically a dungeon crawler
where you choose your character and buff to start you're run with and difficulty,
each diffuculty has it's unique effects easy (heals back all damage recieve during fight, ATK and DEF are increased significantly, but recieve less rewards post game and lower score) regular, (no effects) and hard (you get 2 random effects 1 buff and 1 debuff every layer, and higher scores)
your character starts with a roster of 3 which can be filled, expand the roster limit, and boost stats by leveling up
you have 3 currencies one for characters you acquire after leveling up a character and one for buying at the shop or upgradeding equipment/ items you aquire after beating a fight node/ and a currency post game that can unlock equipment items,encounters, and upgrade starting stats,
, and then you have 3equipment and 3items slotsfor each charcter equipment are some items equipment slots are permanent items you add onto a character items have use limits, both of which are divided in rarity
you have multiple nodes that are regular fights, special/hard fights (extra rewards if cleared), boss node (only appears after you've cleared certain amount of floors) shops, events, and resting nodes. you progress forward and can't get every node you get a preview of what you'll be facing in fight node.
the mode is separated into different layers with a random miniboss in the middle and a final boss you can influence like what boss you'll be fighting or make it harder or easier with event nodes
after every fight nodes you can get equipment and or items and voucher to buy a character or spend some on the skill tree of already existing characters,
, every normal and special nodes you can randomly get a requirement if fulfilled you get a bonus,
shop nodes can let you buy items/equipment/ characters and has a chance to become a dark shop where it exchanges with health
rest nodes let's you choose between, some random buffs, (Increase stats, upgrade weapon/ item/ character, replenish health get currency etc.)
event nodes are special VN cutcenes that do multiple things (encounter a special fight node with rewards, give you an item, trade for guaranteed/ chance to get an item, etc.
that point about waiting is very interesting because i definitely was in the camp of “im just gonna wait till it gets a big deal” but at this point im not sure
I will die on this hill: Traditional-style fighters die due to a lack of single-player content. That’s it, that’s all.
Lower barriers to entry are good and help increase the games lifespan but ultimately people will stop playing when all that there is to enjoy is competitive multiplayer.
F2P could cause tunnel vision and amount to a bandaid for a gunshot wound.
Yup. Personally I remember playing Soul Calibur 2 and later 3 for months because of all the extra stuff you could do. Was super hyped when 4 came out and dropped it after two weeks max because there was only the arcade mode.
@@LordBaktor Same for me. Beyond just having more content and stuff to do, a lot of people who enjoy fighters aren’t built for repetitive online competition. It’s a lot more stressful in fighters compared to other genres and many noobs will just opt out.
@@DoesntMatter23 Yeah, I haven't played a fighting game online match in my life. Not for me. The only games I am willing to play online are those where I can play with my friends on the same team, whether it's PvE or PvP doesn't matter as long as we can collaborate to win.
Give something to do while they learn, because its just not fun playing other players because they just stomp you
Yea. Max has NO idea what he is talking about when discussing the freemium model. It doesnt have casual appeal. Games like Smash have casual appeal with guest characters. I dont know why he's acting like DNF Duel was going to be ther next big thing.
There really should be a Dead or Alive, Killer Instinct, Fighting EX Layer, Free To Play version of the game. Let people get 2 characters in rotation and online, bare minimum, almost Arcade day level of experience to play. The Character Combo Challenges being the way to practice and learn how to play other characters. Character Pass for those that just want the characters and training mode, Complete Edition for the full disc release with its story mode and avatar customization.
I expect the same future as gran Blu, but a little healthier because it have a good netcode
it's numbers are eerily similar to Melty Blood
I'll definitely still be playing it. DNF Duel is my first fighting game and I've been having a blast. For other games like guilty gear, I tend to look at the cast and like maybe 2-3 characters which doesn't feel worth it to me cuz i can't one trick, I need pick diversity. In this game I've loved every single character and the visual style is right up my alley.
Hey, see this give away bot pretending to be max? Be careful of these and alert others
@@KingofItalia Yeah, I warned some people in Max's Evo video earlier.
There's a very good reason why *DNFD* has been quiet, because the main publisher and social media manger is Nexon, and Korean MMO devs/publishers don't like to announce or tease anything till the projects/contents are closer to completion.
I mean they’ve been pretty vocal on the UA-cam community page
@@azureknight729 Yeah patch notes wise, it's standard ASAP dev response.
Actual new content though, it's always kept secret till much closer to release, usually between a 3-6 month cycle, then suddenly a whole bunch of new content and events to bring people back to w/e KR game.
Nexon is a horrible publisher they have f'd up so many games in the past. Has nothing to do with them being korean
@@ligmasphere901 That's not what I mean, and arguably Nexon KR branch is still _kinda_ ok...
What I meant is it's how KR publisher & devs content announcement playbook is atm, you would know if you've played on KR servers.
Also DNF/DFO is Nexon's *crown jewel* and primary money printing machine, they wouldn't want to fuck up anything related to it and always give Neople any budget they want lol.
havent even got a chance to play it, i was planning too, but multiverses came out, easy to play, and have been hooked,
I hope they add some more singleplayer modes. I know this will be controversial but due to the town where I live having horrific online coverage, nothing takes me out of a fighting game more then too much focus on online play, fighting games should have a healthy spread of modes, both online and offline, because if your online dies & you have shit offline modes then your game truly dies in the eyes of the vast majority of players, with the exception of diehards FGC players, who will do everything in their power to keep a game alive
I'm in the same boat. It really sucks when most fighting games are solely built around online mostly with little single player content. It is one reason why Soul Calibur is still king for me.
I have pondered how to solve the build community issue with a PvE set of challenge. Have leaderboard, etc...
I agree that the game feels incomplete and has a couple of problems, but I don't think making the game free considers the costs of actually needing to make a game and giving back to the devs. A lower price I think would strike a more fair balance, especially if the game is supported with paid dlc, people would feel more comfortable to pay
he did mention that the game has to be built with the intention of being free, not become free after release.
I love the example of the longer the game is out the more you will likely fight the hardcore gamers. My example was SF4 (Xbox360 Era). I got into it at nearly the end of "Super" and it was already at the point that Maybeevery 10 games, 2 of them will be people on my level.
Everything Max said has given me even more hope for Project L.
Just played the trial for it on ps plus, really enjoyed it. But seeing as there’s a lack of content idk if $50 is really worth it.
I kinda regret buying this game, the animations are amazing but players are ridiculously oppressive, too much damage and it was quite expensive for what I get, I play like 4 fours (2 of those in the story mode) and being body only, dunno, is good put is quite lacking, I even forget that I has the game, tried to refund it, got deny XD
SoulCalibur needs to make a true come back. Give me Soul Calibur 2 fighting with all the game modes of soul calibur 3. The thing with fighters these days is that it's all about these long combo strings. I truly hate not being able to play because I guessed wrong once. Soul Calibur and games like it are more forgiving and easier to pick up for casual players that don't have 8 hours a day to practice. SoulCalibur was more about the neutral versus spam a bunch of stuff until I hit you for a 80% combo. But, I also play launcher in DNF Duel so I'm waiting for the buff lol. Multiverses is fun tho. Def about to smash, Smash.
I mean this is just how it is with alot of fighting games without a strong IP or free to play. The reality is fighting games are a workout, where you need to practice your mechanics and combos and learn how to do things. You have to earn and learn your enjoyment.
The 1v1 nature of fighting games makes it so that you have no one to blame but yourself when you lose. It forces that grinding, self improvement mentality, which doesn't work with everyone, who just want to play, relax, and/or have fun.
Thank you & that will never change
If someone can't come to terms with that just play a different or stay in the Loop.
This game can’t die on me now. I’m getting an arcade stick for my birthday.
I’m personally waiting for the $30 version. You also have to look at the massive player base vampire that is Multiversus. They’ve sucked up all the players from many games for now. I think seeing the level out of MvS will show wether the alarms bells should be sounded or not
I wish I could pay 50 bucks for the game. Freaking Nexon didn't give us local pricing so the game is around 200 bucks here. Far too expensive to what the game should be worth because they are giving us the price in dollars
@@bloody4558 No way a like foreign friend could like buy it for you on steam for however much it is? It really is a fun game. I honestly think that when you got a big game like Multiverse which is free to play takes the wind out of your sales but that's not the end all be all. Also it's alright not to play DNF all the time but still enjoy it. I'm hopeful things will turn around player count wise.
@@bloody4558 I want to say a VPN could get you around that and let you purchase or create an account from a different region, then gift it to yourself.
@@NotTheWheel yeah, to be honest the game would've gotten twice it's revenue were it not for it's price, I know a lot of people who were extremely interested in the game and are now waiting for a special sale discount to buy it. Imagine how many people would've been playing the game day 1 if no for this? I predict that the game would now have at least 1.2k players consistently playing daily
I am glad Max is the kind of person who has experience in fighting games and still knows the important of a casual audience, this is not something exclusive to fighting games but it seems the FGC is very elitist when it comes to the casual audience.
I can never get into games lie Skullgirls because you just get destroyed but I am having a fucking blast with MultiVersus.
Ive been having a lot of fun playing DNF Duel, it deserves more players for sure
Max take a look at this Pocket Bravery game, it is a fighting game made by Brazilians, give it a chance. The game is on steam.
I got DnF as it looked like a lot of fun. Playing it though, I can't really get into it. Went back to strive and kof.
enjoyed this game a lot when it dropped, but as a casual fighting game player, there were too many times i ran into chars like crusader, that felt so insanely cheap and broken as hell, that even if "to a highly proficient player, theres ways around it" im not at that level even after hours of playtime and practice, where its so frustrating to be nonstop cheesed, that it just makes me ignore the game altogether and just go back to a way more fun and hype game like Dragonball FighterZ
@Keshuel not at all, the shit certain chars in DNF Duel can do, is so extremely toxic to newer or casual fighters, that even the AI will do it
I agree that fighting games should be more accessible to new players but I don't think going full free to play would work especially needing things like characters and costumes to keep players coming back which would be difficult for someone like Arcsys because of how they make their games.
I think a free to try demo could work for fighting games because anyone could pick it up and play it like a free to play game but instead of having to monetize the game, they would just have the full price version available for people to buy if they enjoyed the demo.
Multiversus is a good game but I think you still have to put time in to get the characters you want due to getting a small amount of gold while characters that aren't free cost from 1,500 to 3,000 which some people might not have the time for and might prefer buying a full priced game in order to get a full roster a number of modes to play with.
This is partly why I really enjoy Strive. I'm not great at Strive but I'm decent. I usually play often but come back every couple months when new content or patches are added, and I don't get absolutely bodied. But I do remember trying to get into Under Night and Skullgirls and being decimated lmao. I love those games and they're fun, but I just can't find others at my skill level consistently enough to stick around.
That's what they get for not adjusting regional prices, it's 500 fucking bucks in Turkey for god's sake. while strive is only 90.
Congrats🎉 you were selected amongst the shortlisted winners 🏆 for the ongoing MacBook-M2/PC/Ps5 giveaways 🏆ωнατѕαρρ the number above ☝🏻
yeah I really wish I could have gotten into skullgirls back in the day but I was busy with more important things like 100%ing SMG, so trying to get into it now is seriously impossible cuz everyone online will just destroy you, I don't see that as a negative against the game I simply chose my priorities and I got to live with that now
Man I love this game, but to me it still feels like a prototype almost as if they wanted to see how well a fighting game based off of DFO would do and after enough time has passed then they'll add, more game modes, characters, etc.
One thing people aren't talking about is the lack of regional pricing on steam turning away a lot of people here in Asia, it's supposed to be the equivalent of a "$50" game but because of no regional pricing, it is actually more expensive than $60 games here in Asia.
During week 1 of DNF I heard this complaint from one guy in Max's chat so I went to check some Asian social media and saw that it was also complained in China, the biggest fanbase of DFO, the fact that the main fanbase isn't happy with the pricing definitely hurts the sales.
I put in 80+ hours into the game so the 50 bucks were already worth it. There are a lot of single player games which cost 60 bucks and only have 30-40 hours playtime.
only 80 hours from a pvp game is not good....
I'm liking DNF Duel, but I wish it had something akin to Burst. Even if it was you burn your entire meter into exhausted state, maybe even a more severe version, just a way to break a combo would be so welcome.
All fighting games should be free2play, honestly. That's best for everybody. The problem is that devs see fighting games one dimensional and still think that everybody wants an arcade experience. People want a good game that is easy to get into, gets content at a good rate, and can still be fun at all levels of play. Fighting games are still in the mindset of "We are gonna be expensive as fuck, have absolute barebones content and people will like it because they always have and know nothing else". It's not the beginnings of the internet anymore. Sure, I could buy DNF Duel. What I get is a game with a low player count, almost no content, and the knowledge that if new content comes, I will have to pay for it again, and a player base that has played fighting games for 20 years while I'm a noob. Why the fuck would I buy that? I'm just gonna play multiversus and wait for the Riot fighter that is guaranteed to have a ton of new players that are starting with the fighting game genre at release, free2play with amazing free2play progression and no pay2win content, frequent updates, and the guarantee that all future characters will also be free2play. The choice is really easy here. I'm staying the fuck away from DNF DUEL or any fighting game until the Riot fighter comes out. That's what a ton of other new players are gonna do. DNF Duel will not survive until the end of next year. The buy-in price is just too high for a game that has a player count in the 3-digits, no content, and no customization. The era of the old fighting games will soon be over
Depends on the game, tekken going free to play for instance was already a tried concept that was executed terribly.
Brawlhalla's monetization model is very good and multiversus pretty much copied it, but I cant really see street fighter with a season pass, or someone buying ryu emotes and skins. Interest fades away when a fighting game is hard because not everyone is willing to Improve and actually get good.
You can get away with spamming Finn backpack in multiversus, but when you do that against someone In tekken youre most likely going to get destroyed.
Pretty much spot on. I think the best model for fighting games now is to launch F2P with a base roster, then take the SF5 approach with passes to fill out the roster and other content. That helps to promote more people to jump in at any point, but also if they enjoy it and want to do more, pay and support the game.
I hated the slow crawl of expanding roster. It does help generate interest but by the time last characters are released the game is over.
all fighting gaes need minigames that train reactions for common situations and are fun.
People gotta remember DFO main population is in Korea. In the US it had its niche fan base, constantly trying to catch up to the Korean version but after its major update in releasing the male mage there was no major update after that and the game died down to the point they shut down the NA servers it wasn't until years later they brought it back where it was up speed with the Korean version just that everyone the US had to start over from scratch but they now they had way more content and more new classes to mess around with
1:25 "It's like anime MKX". OMG, I've been saying this since I heard it has a block button and I couldn't agree more.
MKX is my favorite fighting game of all time, Guilty Gear X2 was my high school jam and DNF Duel just fills that need for insane anime action with absolute bullshit neutral so well. It's so good.
is frustrating because gameplay wise this games are gorgeous, but they always fail. Thank you max for constantly bringing the topic of player retention and service model, that is the key for the fighting game genre to grow, not making them easy
Tbh I love this game but he's right...and also the disconnecting on ranked and not gaining points is getting out of hand
I bought this game because I had a few friends playing it at the time and I was looking into getting into a new game with them. I played it for about 26 hours (most of which was me playing ranked and getting as high as gold one from bronze) the gameplay is flashy and cool but the staggering lack of defensive options against most characters. if you’re stuck in a combo the only thing you can do is know by what attacks your plus on frames by heart or burn your entire meter in hopes you knock them back. But now that your meters burned getting them away you’ve got nothing you can really use to get a combo together on certain characters. (I played ranger where you as far as I’m aware you get ZERO overhead pressure from any attacks) meaning that your basically either playing the ranged game in hopes they don’t just rush you down again with no way to stop another block string for a while or burn what little meter you might have to pull something off.
The games really fun overall it just gets really frustrating after a while when you get stuck in a combo with no feasible way to defend yourself.
As a note none of the friends that were playing the game before me are playing it anymore and I just uninstalled my version yesterday after getting to gold then getting absolutely destroyed for 2/1/2 hours after that not enjoying a minute of it.
I am disappointed by how fighting game developers continue to neglect singleplayer and local multiplayer content.
They are fully convinced that all it takes for a fighting game to succeed is Versus Mode and decent online netcode (which, admittedly, is a welcome improvement compared to a few years ago).
But it has become an increasingly more difficult purchase to justify, compared to what the competition offers.
*This*
The competition for one player content will always smoke the one player content in a fighting game. SFV tried to copy MK's success with story modes and it ended up being a huge waste of money. And MK is one of the best games for one player content, but how does that stack up against, I don't know, Elden Ring? God of War 4? Anything? I think it just makes more sense to make them more about multiplayer, since that's their thing.
Listen if you want "good single player content" just play a single player game when you're done just pop in a multiplayer game it's not that hard
Unless you have no variety
Fighters will never be as big as other genres. You either play it and love it and get addicted or you just walk away after a few hours. Just the way it is and that’s never going to change imo.
Arc-sys would have to rework the way it rigs it's character models, allocate development for concept art to allow for skins, I'm personally dreading seeing yet another battle pass in a gaming genre as I'm not a fan of time restricted content.
Yep.
I don't understand why this isn't discussed.
they dont know how to make free to play game and monetize skin, again thats not easy, the mentality to keep constant updating, arcys not ready yet. I just hope the crossplay for GGST work, sooo they have the basis to make more better game
Dnf/dnf actually has 3 different forms for each character/class to design a model on so it’s not like they have to created something wholly unique from the ground up (they technically used the base fgunner appearance but with mechanic’s top and hair alongside launcher’s goggles for dnf duel’s launcher) but all classes so far uses the 1st awakening form which is the most simplest and basic among all of the forms
I think what doesn't hurt like in the hey-day was a lack of rentals and arcades. Like, it only cost you like 50¢ or so to try out Marvel vs Capcom(god I sound old) or Street fighter 3. That was the initial appeal of fighting games. You'd have to play a lot for it to add up to $50 dollars or more.