Honestly they should be forced to recall all these wet belt engines. You're not convincing me that not a single engineer at Ford knew this was a bad idea
Manufacturers can’t be forced into recalls, they’re entirely voluntary which is why there are so few. Tyler Durden explains the method in the documentary ’Fight Club’.
@@JelloTypeR Over here it could be a class action lawsuit, only the consumer agency can file for one but since the law passed 2007 there haven't been any cases. Absolutely no corruption in Finland...
They do regard their customers as too stupid to understand. The design faults are deliberate. Designed to fail at a given mileage or age. Spare parts and repair is where most profit is in the car industry
Belts shouldn't be contaminated in oil, design and engineering them to be contaminated in oil shows a level of stupidity in the engine design department that should result in sackings for incompetence.
I'm not sure why folk are NOT talking about the root of the problem. I have a mate who worked in a Ford dealership until recently. He was absolutely fed-up to the back teeth of replacing Transit motors with (for example, snapped cranks) week in, week out, 2 or maybe 3 a week and that dealership had loads still in the yard waiting for engine rebuilds/replacement motors. Dealerships are 'allegedly' paid up to £6k per exchange engine by Ford, however it's only a bare motor, so all auxiliaries have to be stripped off the failed motor, to be re-used (a very important point) ie Turbo/ Intercooler/ hoses/Radiator etc, without being flushed out, or purged, regardless of possible debris residue in any of these parts, further risking the life span of the replacement motor too. This was pointed out to the workshop manager, but he said, 'Button it up and get it out the door', so definitely a management decision, not the fitter who did not want to cut corners, but pressure from above was to get the vans turned around and back out the door asap. The problem is not the wet belt per se, it is the length Ford have gone to, to meet ULEZ emissions levels, and all the Re-gens the motor has to go through in order to meet these ULEZ levels, and then all the failed re-gens if say for example, the motor was switched off during a Re-gen cycle, loads of vans live as a daily round the doors delivery vans with poss around 100 drops a day, what chance a completed re-gen now then? This in turn keeps pumping excess diesel into the engine to raise exhaust temps to burn hot and clear out the DPF etc (but also past the rings and into the sump) which then causes the rubber timing belt to decompose and finally fail, as the belt is fine in oil, BUT NOT FUEL. Now for some 'alleged' figures, the lowest mileage Transit that dealership had to replace a motor had only covered 6000 miles!!! Worse yet to come, a replacement motor in a Transit was given back to their customer which didn't even survive 48hrs!!! One can only speculate that the cause may well have been due to particles/residue from the previous trauma, in the intercooler, or turbo, and here we go again. On a closing note, think back, how long did it take Ford to admit the ECOBOOST 3-cyl motor was fatally flawed, and had marginal cooling and could not endure being thrashed, so an inspired choice to fit it in the Fiesta ST! That engine was nick-named by Ford mechanics as the ECOBOOM on account of the many, many failures Well-done Ford, a clear leader in the field of dreams, or should that read nightmares?.
'' as the belt is fine in oil, BUT NOT FUEL. '' Well they are both slightly different fractions of hydrocarbon oil. If you look up a compatibility chart for O ring materials then you see that diesel and lub oil are lumped into the same cat.
@@julianstafford7071 That's as maybe, I wouldn't dispute your statement, however, clearly the belt composition is not that of a 'O' ring and cannot tolerate Diesel.
@@barryshitpeas5837 I presume you actually took in the story, that's exactly why he did get off the tools, nobody wanted him to do a thorough rebuild, foreman wanted corners cut that just didn't make sense. Moved on up the food chain and has a better paid job, and doesn't have to get his hands dirty now. So, well-spotted mate!
As a former mechanic, I know three things are true about auto manufacturing: 1. Building a non-interference motor means that a failed timing belt doesn't destroy your valvetrain and piston heads. (Much cheaper and easier to repair.) 2. The use of a timing CHAIN versus a timing BELT massively increases the lifespan of the timing components, and timing CHAINS rarely fail. 3. Operating the vehicle's water pump by timing belt causes an additional failure point in the timing system, as pump seals can leak coolant onto the belt. A seized water pump can snap your timing belt, destroying your entire engine (as a friend one learned in her Dodge Stratus, with an interference motor). Any of these engineers would know that rubber components do not play well with petroleum-based chemicals. If they don't know that, then they're obviously not qualified for the position. A "wet belt" setup makes sense for a timing chain, to keep the links lubricated and rust-free for 200k (or more!) miles. To expose the engine's oil to rubber, knowing that rubber belts typically shed microscopic bits of rubber during use, is absolute stupidity - or a definitive CHOICE made to make the engines fail prematurely. The TL;DR of above? Building an interference motor with "wet" timing belt is a design resulting from any or all of the following: production cost-cutting, ignorance, laziness, or a deliberate attempt to generate future income via the service bays (for repairs) and sales (for replacement vehicles). A rubber belt is cheaper to manufacture, and because it has a lower lifespan, requires periodic replacement. A timing belt service is NOT a cheap procedure, and depending on the vehicle, can be quite a tedious job. I've done them myself, AND paid shops to do them, on many vehicles over the years. "Belt vs. chain" and "interference vs. non-interference motor" are actually two major points of consideration for me in any car purchase...
Some good points mate. I've never heard of any diesels with non interference engines as the compression tends to be higher and piston to valve clearance reduced. I used to love the vauxhall petrol non interference engines when I was young as it took the stress off me doing the belt. A rubber belt running in oil is the the most ridiclous thing I've heard in 30 years messing with cars. Looking at the state of design work on cars now (I fix Mercedes) I have wondered if there's a generation of engineers with Autism? Being serious too.
😮 You can’t say that 😏 Mines chain with aux ran water pump, idea of timing BELT just gives me a pain in my soul, same as running water pump on timing gear, maybe I’m just used to mine but that just seams unnecessarily risky, complicated and unserviceable, takes me longer to refill my coolant than change my pump, shame BM started putting timing at back of engines and they started failing costing 4k+, whichever car maker chooses the kiss method and aims for longevity will dominate the market in 20 years from now onwards!
Very interesting. I've been hearing it's not just the belt snapping but bits of it braking off blocking the oil pump starving the engine of oil. Think that's what happened in my family members case. A very specific oil has to be used. And not just the grade. It has additional additives to protect that belt. But Ford really don't make that clear enough.
I worked for Fors because it was guaranteed work lol... at Subaru and Toyota all there was, was pil changes and preventative maintenance. At Ford and Chevy it was lemon after lemon. The government protects these companies, of course they would abuse this privilege....
Unfortunately it's some pencil dick in the office that is only thinking of another fool customer to buy the product. Relationships, loyalty, product longevity, reliability mean nothing. I've never dealt with a dealership and never will. I'm 62.😡. Cheers for the video Geoff.
Contractor here my colleague had the same belt failure at 80 000 miles destroyed the engine now it’s a £8000 bill to replace the engine Ford isn’t interested??? This is scandalous to say the least 💩👎🏻
They went to Turkey as an EU funded bribe to stop the president letting over 2m illegals into europe, there were other companies relocated with EU funds at the same time.
Ford were encouraged to move to Turkey with a substantial financial incentive from the EU. Well over £100 Million I believe. Worked on the Ford Southampton site after closure ,all that was left was Ford special engineering division. Very sad.
@@DashDriver-z1r the psa ones now being fitted to the cars are worse again. It’s so bad that Castro & Shell will not supply engine oil for them, due to litigation fears.
Try taking a pre-euro6 diesel into a large town or city in Europe, Paris and Stuttgart has outright banned them (soon to be followed by numerous other cities and towns in France and Germany), and London its £12.50 per day.
This is a MAJOR safety issue. My son has a 2019 Fiesta 1.0l EcoBoost 63k miles fully serviced. Exactly the same issue, loss of power, no warning lights until the catastrophic failure. Ford taking no responsibility. I have hit them with the consumer rights act ‘reasonable time’ 6yrs and their own admission of 150k miles/10yrs longevity. Reported to DVSA as a safety concern and they are now investigating. In the meantime Ford suggested a scrap value of £250 for a car that should be around £8k! We are currently stuck and don’t know what to do. We are insuring my son on my husband’s car so he can get to work but that leaves us without a car. More than happy to do a video with you. Devastated for this lovely lady too 😢
@@Tunners26 that was the plan. We needed a full Ford Diagnostics report which our local garage just kept asking us for more and more money for it. They are all in it together.
Garage Service manager 45 years here, luckily for me not a Ford dealership. But locally there is a Ford dealership who I know well. So imagine you are the small local Ford dealer, you have built up a sound business over decades. Your customers are friends because that's what customers become. Now loads of your customers bought Fiesta's, Transits etc, from you in good faith, they are now failing at an alarming rate, they have done nothing wrong, how long can their business last? I guess we will find out in the next couple of years!
I might be wrong but I think we will only have a few makes left in the future. What with China knocking out cheap electric vehicles flooding Europe not even big brands like VW can compete. It's by design I think so we have lesser choice. They can cotrol them easily like that if its just a few.
Ford are finished with the junk they are now producing and they know it,it’s only a matter of time before they finish production completely. I had a Ford Kuga diesel with that disastrous Powershift gearbox,that finished me with Fords and bought BMW ever since, 130,000 trouble free miles and counting,will never buy Ford again after a lifetime of never buying anything else, Cortina’s then on to Mondeos right through the years all performed well,Ford are finished.
What you have to realize is that Ford are on their knees financially due to the amount of losses they are taking on every one of their EV's! They have made a conscious effort to down scale their model range and number of factories as well as their staff! This push for Net Zero and the reduction of CO2 & other gases from vehicle emissions, has hit the motor industry hard as not one of them are able to make a profit out of EV's. As a mechanical engineer this wet belt engine has to be the stupidest I have seen in over 50 years! Who at Ford gave it the go ahead,, or was it changed from a chain drive to a belt on cost grounds?
Cost grounds. Ford spent many millions getting a chain thru the.warranty period in 2008 due to carbon buildup in oil wearing them out. I was testing them. I saw in my hands very expensive hardened roller chains machined of.a very good quality. This was needed due to carbon buildup in oil. I was getting oil samples and sending off every 24 hrs. Chains were being upgraded so they could pass warranty. I have seen quite a few chains over the years, these felt quality and expensive. It must be cost.
the US has a completely different legal system compared to anywhere in Europe. VW diesel-gate even originated in the US, was completely under the radar in Europe
usa system is extreme litigation europe is consumers have no rights litigation you can sue but will lose 90% of the time and if you win that 10% the company will be fined little and out of that litttle the gov takes 99% as fine and leaves you with 10$ compensation not replacing your bad vehicles or anything just 10$ that's it so nobody sane does it oh and it'll cost you hundreds of thousands and a good 10+ years to get those 10$
@@DeborahWheelhouse-fd6rs there were some absolutely banging cars from the 70s and 80s, but I think by the 90s they'd taken all the best bits in terms of performance and reliability to give us the some of the best all round cars ever.
I'm from Canada. Learned many years ago that buying Ford is a risky proposition. Ford is under investigation by the U.S. government for engine failures. AP News has an article dated October 4th, 2023 about this. Ford also had the most recalls for 2022,2023. They are usually number one or two for recalls dating back many years. Wish people would wise up to Ford. Do a little research instead of just assuming their products are good, or buying them because of some kind of tradition.
Hi Geoff a colleague at work brought one of these vans to make into a campervan (80,000) miles the water pump seized and auxiliary belt snapped!! As I used to be a mechanic I said I'd help her fix it, I replaced the belt and pump and told her it's best to change the cambelt so I did and all was great at the fraction of the cost of a garage.!! 2 weeks later it broke down again and was towed to local garage who said wet belt has failed and needs new engine.!! (6,000) I told her to bring it back to her house and I striped it down !! I'm completely miffed why ford decided to also put another canvas belt running in oil!! In my days all cars were chain!! You can buy a chain kit for £200 why not fit this from factory?? .. it also had 7 bent valves and piston damage so I've changed all valves and modded the pistons!! ( I used to mod engines years ago. Vehicle is now up and running total spent £800 so colleague really pleased van back on road !! In my mechanical experience of 50 yrs these belts if fitted should be changed the same time as the dry belt found on the outside, canvas belts running in oil is not recommended in my experience....
@@michaelgoode9555 I honestly believe that if labour win the UK election they will have most domestic cars off the road at the end of their first term.
@@michaelgoode9555So you're telling me that the Ulez in London and the upcoming pay per mile in the capital is a conspiracy theory? Get a grip of yourself 😂
Just changed a Ford wet belt to chain at 97400 miles, because on an off chance inspection as I was around that area, the wet belt was shredding, (but only one spot inside between two teeth & not visible unless you spun the belt) it wouldn’t have lasted another 600 miles. Expensive ? Not really, the chain conversion was about £100 more than the wet belt replacement kit & I did it myself!
Ford C-Max 1.8TDI. Funnily (well not for the owner) my mate has last week had a TRANSvestITe van towed in, (wet belt blown engine) just under 100000miles FORD seem to have the "warranty runs out when it leaves the forcourt" mentality! Oh, don't touch the 'ECOBOOST' Fords either! Oh. don't get me started on the Ford Ad-blue system🤬 - FORD = Found On Road Dead
At least there is a conversion, I own a VW T5 of 2007 vintage, not without their faults but much better than a transit. I’ve had fords in the past. Never again.
I said this would happen when Ford announced it and it was rubbished by a lot of people saying Ford knew what they were doing,well tell that to all the owners who have had one failure after another. I’ve worked in the motor industry for 60 years and over that time Ford have always purchased the cheapest components for their vehicles for as long as I can remember. Ford must have lost the plot thinking they could use a rubber neoprene compound belt and run it in hot oil and not have problems. Ford couldn’t give a shit about the customer but people are getting aware of these problems and buying elsewhere. Transits we’re the backbone of the van world but not anymore,a Sprinter will do 300,000 miles without any major repairs and so will most other makes if serviced correctly,I know one company who has done over 230,000 miles in a Citroen Bippa diesel 1-4. Secondhand Transits with these engines are worth salt as people wake up to the catastrophic costs of running these engines.
Geoff I spent 35 years as a motor engineer the first 13 of which in the FORD MAIN DEALER network including my 4 year apprenticeship. I have seen countless engines destroyed by poor maintenance the most common of which is through extended service intervals. 18,000 mile oil change intervals is totally insane!! No wonder these engines are failing so early. The engine oil at those sort of mileages is stuffed full to the gunnels with carbon deposits which clogs up the oil ways (black sludge) plus it attacks the timing belts. HERE IS MY BEST TIP: Whatever service intervals the manufacturer states. . .HALVE IT and preferably do it EVERY 6000 MILES! My two transit 1.0Lt petrol eco boost engines are supposed to be serviced every 14,000 miles. I do them every 6000 miles. Religiously. As for wet timing belts. . . must have been designed by the same person who invented the chocolate fireguard!! Lets get this message out there. Great channel!
I put a 350 v8 in an S10 as a service truck that towed a trailer every day for years. I changed the Mobil one and wix filter every 20,000 miles. It had 537,000 miles on it when I pulled it to freshen it. I took it to the machine shop that had done many racing motors for me. I took the engine completely tore apart to them and they measured everything and found it needed no machining and didn't need to be cleaned either. I freshen it up and as luck would have it I raced it and won king of the track with that motor in that S10. It won several races that year, I have a 1500 with 364,000 and 23 yrs later it runs great and still gets 28mpg along with a 01 suburban with the 8.1 with 300 , 000 , miles. Good oil and filters is how these engines have survived so long
100%. The BS around 18000m oil changes is ludicrous. Who made up this shit? I get nervous after 10000miles let alone 18000. My van is a 2018 with 22K miles. I get the oil and filter changed every year without fail plus I turn off the stupid stop/start function. Its an engine killer.
Ford knows how to build good engines , they have in the past but they are building them small and cheap , the epa probably can take some blame for pushing ever more impossible emission standards on car makers too put tiny throw away engines in them , but still , if the belt was an issue , ford could have changed the servicing to replace the belt every 50,000 miles for example or whatever worked which probably would have stopped the engines blowing up even if it meant more servicing cost .
Geoff I’ve been covering this issue with Ford wet belt engines for over 12 months, it’s not only Ford who are having the problem, it’s VW , Peugeot,Citroen,fiat, Vauxhall, Honda
Honda doesn't Use Wet timing belt's, And last Well over 100,000 miles for most people, If that weren't the Case I would know because I am a Mechanic, So not sure were you got that strange information from.
Hi Geoff, my friend’s 2018 low mileage Ford Custom Tourneo had a wet belt snap last year. The mileage it snapped at was 43,589 miles. They have had it since new. It’s always been serviced by Ford. They were on their way home from Bristol Airport after being on holiday. The van just stopped on the M5 motorway with no indication. The AA man said it was extremely common, as he has dealt with 5 Ford Transit vans in the last 6 months with the same issue . Ford charged nearly 7k for a new engine with vat. It took 15 weeks for a new engine to be fitted, as they couldn’t source some of the parts. A wiring loom was damaged when the old engine was removed. Not good for Ford. keep up the good work with channel 😀.
I don't know how it is over there. But here you could sue the dealership for not recording the service information correctly. I worked for a Ford Dealership we had meetings about accurate work orders and labor reports.
This should have been free as a good will gesture. Serviced correctly according to manufacturers specifications and only 6 years old and under 50k miles. At least pay half the cost! Terrible service
I work for a telecom company. At our location we had 4 17 plate transit custom vans. All 4 had belts fail before 70000 miles. The last one just last week. Vans don't do really high mileage and are serviced on time. It's a potentially really dangerous situation when the van just stops working without any previous warning.
There was a recall issued in the UK a while back but, if its past certain parameters, such as mileage, it voids it under warranty, and the customer, or the lease companies have to pay for it.
A friend owns a mechanic's shop, and he's had quite a few in for wet belt breaks, all under mileage failures, and ford aint interested. Wouldn't touch a wet belt ford van.
Peugeot cocked up on the service interval on 306 GTI engines. The timing belts were going well before the service recommendation, so most of those cars had to have new engines dropped in under warranty, I think the failures were going around the 30k marker or something like that, instead of the 45 onwards.
@@GeoffBuysCarsconsidering the 'environmental impact' by having to keep changing belts that can't be recycled, why haven't the government mandated chains be used instead? Oh wait we all know why.... our felicias on 122k miles now/26years old & still has it's original timing chain.
Was the service on your van carried-out by a Ford Main Dealer, an independent mechanic, or in-house at your company? Because if it was a Ford Main Dealer and *they* didn't specify in the Service Book what oil was used, then surely it's down to them that the warranty wasn't honoured, and therefore the Ford Dealer who failed to fill-in the Service History to Ford standards should be liable? If it was an independent mechanic then, in my experience at least, they could potentially sling whatever cheap 3rd-World rubbish "Oil-Type-Product" they can get for the lowest possible price-per-drum into your van, and that could easily rot the belt in no time if these Wet Belts need a specific grade/formulation to prevent premature degredation? Equally, and without wishing to cast any aspertions, it wouldn't be unheard-of for the proper (and therefore no-doubt expensive...) oil to mysteriously find it's way into one of the mechanic's car boot ready to do-a-foreigner for his mate at the weekend, and for that mechanic to replace it with 3rd-World rubbish in the van they're working on for their boss to make a few extra quid on the side? I know it's a horrible thing to say, but I've had exactly that experience when I supplied both a Genuine BMW Oil Filter Element (@£32) and 8 litres of Castrol Edge 0W-30 (@£84) because I didn't want a crap filter from the local motor factors and crap oil in my F11 530d, and then watched (and got a video of, luckily...) the snotty little oik take the 2 4 litre cans of Castrol Edge out of the passenger footwell of my car and chuck them in the boot of his 350z before I'd even left the car park... Needless to say I went straight back in and demanded my keys back, then asked where my oil had gone and was asked "What f@%&ing oil's that then mate? -There wasn't no oil in that f@%&ing car..." So I showed him the video, he suddenly remembered that he'd "put it there for safekeeping" and I left, never to return, but I'm sure it wasn't a totally isolated incident considering how rapidly this country's descending into hell in a flaming handcart?
I went to test drive a Ford Focus a couple of weeks ago when fortunately I met a mechanic who said don't touch it with a bargepole because of the wet belt issues. I'm glad I took his advice.
This guy's got the same idea I have. About doing a channel with a philantropic outlook interviewing people who the system has failed with no other option with the outlook of getting them the exposure that hopefully gets them the help they need. I'm in Australia though, but I grew up listening to a guy called Howard Satler on the radio who did a similiar thing for people such as people who lived in public housing who couldn't get their toilets fixed for example and were getting nowhere through the normal channels. He was kinda a shock jock, and well , you can look up the reason he was cancelled if you want, but he reallly did help ALOT of people which I would LOVE to do. Good on you Geoff!
A friend of mine has a small plumbing business. They need four vans but but he has five because there's invariably one off the road for some reason. He's tried most makes, but reckons none of them are wonderful. He's been in business since the early nineties and says the best vans were designed in the 1990's.
I agree,90's or early 2000's were the best. Changing the oil say 8,000m would make engine last. For the sake of oil,the filter,the parts & labour with the VAT on top it's silly to go further than 10,000m on ANY diesel.....so use decent oil & don't always trust dealers as they DO NOT use the oil they say. Dealers need to make money & the oil dept is where they lie!
Yep the 90's were the years that cars and van's were the most reliable. One car example being the Peugeot 205 diesel..... an astounding car. I'm a Land Rover fan ( not the latest expensive crap) and I think the best engines they ever used were the 200 / 300 Tdi's.
Only trouble 90's transits were rot boxes, modern ones have better rust proofing but crap mechanical. The answer is to put an old engine in a modern van. 😂
@@bentullett6068nonsense,they just need looking after with regular oil changes with correct spec oils.great littke engines and very smooth.have had fords since the 80s,done hundreds of thousands of miles in them with few issues.oil changes every 6000 miles,not this 20 or 30000 miles nonsense.
@broken12367 you allways hear off the moaners but never off all the thousands of happy people with no complaints,thats the problem with these internet days.
My dad has a car shop and I told him not to service cars with wet belts when they came out. A while later he thanked me, because other mechanics he knows got in trouble for those things blowing up and Ford blaming the garages, stating the oil wasn't the right spec. For the Ford engines with wet belts, the oil needs to have the "WSS M2C948-B" specification, afaik only available on 5W-20... which at least in some applications isn't what would normally be used. Even if you use the correct oil with a "ford garbage exclusive" can that's not used for any other oils ever, they can still avoid blame because guess what, by the time the belt snaps or slips the oil won't be exactly to factory spec anymore. Especially if you drive short distances, you fuel can/will make it's way into the oil, which in small amounts wouldn't be tragic unless some idiot decided to run a rubber belt trough said oil. Personally, I've never been a fan of any kind of long life motoroil ideas. VW started that during the late 90s early 2000s as optional... and it sucked. Not only were the oils in "questionable" states when changed (or dead), the oil also was so expensive that it was cheaper to do multiple changes on shorter intervalls.
I work for my local authority (Brighton and Hove City Council) who have always used ford transit based chassis cabs as the base for our cage vans, for street bin rubbish collection. From the original MK1, to the MK5, i've noticed a MAJOR difference in the quality and durability of these chassis vehicles. We have 6 x '13' registration vans, which have well over 300k miles on. These were purchased used from a highway maintenance company back in 2016 with 270k miles on and have had no issues, nothing to speak of at all. They are serviced and maintained every 3 months and given a safety inspection every 16 weeks, as standard with any local authority vehicle (similar to NHS and Public bodies, Police, Fire etc). Then we come to the 8 2018 and 2019 registered vehicles. We have had issues with front door hinges, engine mounts, cam-belt and aux drive belts failing, at well under spec for their lifespans. Then we come to the Oil pump belts. These have been the worst offenders. Every single van has had a failed oil pump belt at one stage, one particular van has had 4 replacement engines, all due to the oil pump belts failing (one failed just over 4 weeks after the brand new engine had been fitted, fitted by our local ford dealership, at the cost of over 13k). We've now gone to electric for our street cleansing vans. Having been loaned an electric transit, we were astonished at the lack of quality to parts in the cabin, the infotainment system rebooting constantly every 15 to 20 mins (even with nothing connected to it, like Bluetooth or android/ apple car-play). Our local dealer who loaned us the vehicle couldn't have cared less, all they were interested in was that lucrative order. No feedback was sought, no information on how the demo went, NOTHING. Dinages ford, what a joke!! For the cost per vehicle, we went to Mazus, having purchased 8 new Mazus E deliver9 vans, 3 converted to jet-washing and graffiti removal vans, 4 as tipper body cage vans, and one luton van. then was have two Mazus T90EV pickups, mainly for environmental enforcement, bin and box deliveries and other related works. The Mazus dealer was SO MUCH more interested in us as a customer, not only our money, but our feedback, our ideas, use cases etc. They even asked if there was any features we would find useful, that could be implemented. Amazing staff at Rivervale in Portslade.
Don't understand why they don't just make a chain conversion kit like they did for the old 1.8 tdci with the wet belts, which had the same problem. Stupid idea, I'll never buy a vehicle with a wet belt, basically worst of both worlds!
Just for others so this comment doesn’t confuse too much, the 1.8tdci engine with wet belt essentially has 2 belts, it has one wet belt at the bottom ( from fuel pump) but a conventional timing belt running up to the cam. The wet belt version came in late 2007 so basically what people were doing is simply replacing the the wet belt with the chain etc that was fitted to earlier versions of that engine, it’s not that ford created a new part, or a conversion, it’s just simply people were changing theirs back to the earlier spec. Eg ( I’ve owned a June 2007 mark 2 ford focus 1.8 tdci from brand new, ( yup coming up for 17 years ownership lol) it has lower chain and upper conventional cam belt, if I bought the car 4 months later it would have had lower wet belt and upper conventional cam belt) So in short these twin systems are different from what some may be thinking of a conventional single timing/cam belt and there was no conversion or special kit, it was just retro fitting the older parts 👍
@@shanemcentee9171 Well erm in this case they did lol, it’s just they changed it, they’ll say it was maybe quieter or smoother etc etc but no doubt in reality it was probably just cheaper lol, although really just a false economy.
@@michaelperrin2531 I doubt it's even possible without major re-engineering. I believe PSA were in the process of doing this to the wet belt system on the puretech.
Work van was recalled and they checked the belt and said it was ok. The van had engine failure about a month later ford did cover the repair costs as they had checked the van and had said it was ok.
It’s a common problem, the oil rots the belt and the bits block the oil filter resulting in engine failure. You normally get the oil light come on, before the engine fails.
@@0TheLastLoneWolf usually it strips its teeth , and then the valve timing goes out and the valves hit the pistons , the rockers break, the cams move on the shafts ..the only (sometimes) warning signs are the brakes play up as debries end up in the brake vacuum pump, you can check the belt - (not a good check), by peering down the oil filler hole with a torch, but you cant see the teeth side of it .
We had 5 Ford Torneo's that were 2018 with the 2.2 diesel engines have oil pump failures before 100k These were airport transport vehicles. We started changing the oil pumps as a service item. Engine replacements were recon Ford that had also probably had oil pump failures and would fail shortly after fitting. One did 200 miles and the cam chain snapped. These were Ford warranty replacement engines. We scrapped the fleet within 3 years at a massive loss.
This has happened to us - a 2021 Ford Ranger, 45k miles and they want us to replace the engine for +£12k cost and refusing to cover this under goodwill because the first service was done outside of the recommended timeframe. Where do we go for help!! this is madness?
Built-in obsolescence. You can't buy a reliable car/van any more. The manufacturers have cottoned on to the software sellers - make sure you have the customer on a (financial) leash.
And it sounds like electric despite relative simplicity is not going to help this as there are reports of quotes for 11k to replace a faulty heater in a 5k Zoe and 7k for a faulty charging port. Because your average garage won't touch them.
I've been driving the newer shaped VW crafters (2017 onwards) for years and they all have been super reliable. The one I currently drive is a 21 plate with over 130,000 miles on the clock and still drives like new, never had a single problem with it.
My dog walker got a used transit. After a few months she told me the timing belt snapped, Ford had agreed to repair it under warranty. I'm a very novice DIY mechanic ie I can do oil, pads and filters and occasional other things like shocks. When I asked her if it was a chain or belt she said no its a rubber belt that goes through oil. Me with my, at best DIY skills, "that can't be right, rubber and oil will fail because oil dissolves rubber". Then I'd heard of it happening to lots of transits. I can't believe Ford engineers thought it would work when someone like me can see it wouldn't.
@@dantheman1337I used to test ford angines at a well known consultancy, and some times engines were tested with 12% of diesel in the oil. Ran on dyno, and so on. It was never made clear to me why tho. Overfuelling engine testing?
Ford's argument on this one is that a very specific type of oil needs to be used. Using the same grade is not adequate as their oil also contains additives to protect the belt. I would argue that Ford dont make this clear enough. They could easily put a warning on the oil cap or somewhere highly visible like page 1 of the handbook. They don't.
It’s in the handbook, how clear do they need to make it? People generally treat cars with absolute contempt as a white good. Never serviced then they start whinging when it blows up.
Great work Jeff! The only way these massive companies will listen is through mass negative publicity, you were spot on with all your points, they’ve built an inferior product which is not fit for purpose bit like the early Eccoboost engines. Keep up the good work my friend, you are a quality content creators. Thumbs up from me 👍
Not a wet belt comment, but went to a Ford garage as I have done for many years, service plan. This time customer service desk poor service, vehicle serviced, video inspection by text, told vehicle gone for wash, when I saw it, looked like it had been washed in dish water. Checked service book, not completed, went back in, can you please complete it, oh it’s electronic now, NO, I want the service book completed. Get the usual Ford survey, so I gave a poor review, within hours had general manager of the garage on the phone, explained, offered a free MOT when I come in next if I would re complete survey, why so Ford and management think everything is hunky dory. Next time I’m going to another a Ford garage.
My new galaxy went in to people's ford after breaking down, they took 6 weeks to say it was contaminated diesel, the service manager told me face to face that the fuel tank and lines were red rusty.... His face dropped when I pointed out that both tank and lines are plastic... The first day I got the car back it wouldn't start, RAC found a dropped bolt had shorted the starter blowing a main fuse, then 2 days later while on the motorway both scuttle trims blew off as they'd not been attached properly.... My insurance had taken a fuel sample and they said there was no contamination and refused to pay for the repairs leaving a £3000 bill that fortunately the lease company said they would pay as Ford still wouldn't honour the warranty.
Working in the motor trade 30 years ago they told us do not get no oil on that rubber belt or it will contaminate the belt and it will snap now they completely submerged in oil what a stupid ucking idea 😅😅😅😮😮😢😢😢😢😢 god help us 😊😅😮
I see this comment all over the place, do you genuinely think Ford etc just decided to put a standard timing belt in oil, they didn't do any research to change the materials or design in any way? Wet belts are crap because they require very specific oil compositions to hold together, but arguments like this are nonsense.
The story of the woman in this vid shows YOU are talking nonsense!!! After all she had all her vans serviced by an official Ford dealer!! I think Ford made a catastrophic miscalculation about the durability of wet belts at the expense of their customers!!! And yes EVERY mechanic KNOWS rubber doesn’t like oil!!
I used to have a 2.2 transit custom 2015 which did 37 mpg. Then changed for a 2.0 ecoblue 2019 model and mpg is exactly the same. Those 2.2 engines last forever and 2.0 is complete junk. No end of issues with it since I’ve had it. All in the name of progress.
Employer had a Transit 2.5 litre turbo ,and it did 100,000 miles,almost no problems.After that ,the newer models , just couldn't compare.Useless dual mass flywheel,now these wet belts.Insane.
As a mechanic of 35yrs I always changed timing belts on diesel engines at 80 thousand miles which was the recommended service schedule on most manufacturers with petrol engines being about same and that’s a dry belt so how on earth can a wet belt be 150,000 and even with the reduction to 100,000 is beyond life expectancy so seems ford an the like done this purposely to keep their workshops busy and keep dealers selling vehicles
My 2016 ford focus ecoboost blew a hole through the oil sump literally a few hours ago. I've actually been researching this issue since I bought it in February. Got some of the parts for the wet belt replacement about 3 months ago but now the issue caught up to me.
I was going to buy a 21 reg 3008 with the 1.2 petrol. When I found it had a wet belt I asked about any problems and the dealer said there wasn't any problems. I decided not to bother as I am sure rubber and oil doesn't mix.
Bought a 1.6 petrol suzuki four years ago. Best car i've ever had, never missed a beat. Apparently it has a chain instead of a belt. The amount of new shape defenders that I see that already have only one of the front headlights working shows how poor some new builds are...
5 years ago Had a 2008 Ford Motorhome Cam chain snapped. Cost around 5 thousand to repair. Only had 24 thousand miles.on clock Ford didn't want to know
I have a ford custom transit camper van. It’s a 66, wet belt. I have had it since 2019 when it had 8000 on the clock. It now has 42000 on the clock, I have the oil changed with the mot every feb. I was told by ford to have the belt done next service so it’ll have about 46-48000 on it by then and it’s about £1100 from my local ford to do the belt. Fingers crossed it doesn’t snap by then!
Bought a 68 plate transit custom, 3 months later wet belt snapped at 104k… zero help from Ford. Had the ability to track the service history and oil gradient but lumped me with 8k bill and caused issue after issue from the dealer. 10k in repairs and van still has issues. It financially ruined me. Still looking for help.
Feel for you buddy. My 2010 Transit has just shat its turbo, so I was looking at the weekend at a new transit and seen two I liked at the garage. However I've stubbles across this problem and like you, I couldn't just pull the money out of thin air to sort this mess out if I was unlucky like you. Hope you get sorted
I believe all the wet belt design came about to meet the new European regulations going forward for low emissions. Part of that noise and part of it is trying to save fuel and extended Service period is all part of saving the planet and less oil changes but of course the engines were out prematurely because of this. Mechanic, I’m disgusted with the modern engines going backwards to meet new admissions standards instead of looking for liability long-term service
We have on old “inefficient” boiler. Easy to repair and they last 40 years. Back in 2010 (I think) we were made to switch to “modern” condensing boilers “to save the planet”. These last 10 years before they need to be replaced. I really do wonder how these “save the planet” people sleep at night.
Just had to do a welt belt in my son's Fiesta, around £1000. Every mechanic I spoke to said replace every 50K miles, at £1K each time. Probably around 7 out of 10 garages I asked said they wouldn't touch them.
WOW! A grand a pop. Fiestas are suppose to be a cheap transport,glad i drive a Yaris as the chain don't need doing till 200,000m with regular servicing & decent oil, that goes for the chain guides too!
No thats bullshit, loads of places do them at £8-900 some less if they’re doing them regularly. Ford would charge you £1400 but why would you go there?
Most advanced electronics onboard is the radio 🤣. Just perfect. Have an old Escort that is now on its 4th time around the clock. It did get an engine on the 2nd but not due it blowing up on its own. There was a huge body of water on the road, a pickup truck came in hot on the opposite sense and just threw a wave over my car. Engine sucks in water and boom, lifted the head. Still drove home tho.
Common problem in the USA also. Some oils make the belt degrade faster than others. It's almost like belt needs changed every 50k miles and pickup tube cleaned out also.
Friend of mine has a 19 plate (bought it new), he's done 18k miles, he's had two BCM's (one he had to pay £600 to fix) due to water ingress which ironically stops his windscreen wipers working, they found after 5 weeks a grommet was letting by, instead of fixing the design of the grommet, they've designed a deflector to sit over the bcm in case of any more leaks, I was always a Ford fan but now they are a premium price product without the quality and reliability.
20.35 . I have a 2017 transit pick up with 36826 miles which is stuck in the yard and will not start because of an adblue issue. There have been issues where diesel leaks into the oil , when a failed regen occurs on the diesel particular filter. Ford did have a recall to update this. This oil contamination was also degrading the wet cam belt. I have heard that oil pressure was seriously reduced as a result of the oil pick up pipe being blocked from degraded parts of the wet belt. I have the oil and filter changed every 5000 miles and the sump is taken off to check the oil pick up .The other issue is , garages will only guarantee a new cambelt for one year or 12000 miles. That’s an additional £1000 Cost every year . Ford originally said 150000 miles then dropped to 100000 miles. Once they are changed ,it’s now 12000 miles or 12 months. FORD, YOU MUST DO BETTER!!!!!!!!!🤬🤬 😊
Hi Karl. Thank you so much, I had through the grape vine it could be done. I’ve just checked and it’s booked in. I’ve just been quoted £400 which is so much cheaper than the £1800 to replace the whole system . I was told to deliver it first thing Monday and it will be ready by lunch time. Cheers buddy
Ford are destroying themselves must have some backers 💵💲💰💰💲💸 I really feel for this lady . Ford used to be the bastion of motoring cheap to use cheap to fix fun to drive.
@@HA05GER from another comment: Hi Geoff, my friend’s 2018 low mileage Ford Custom Tourneo had a wet belt snap last year. The mileage it snapped at was 43,589 miles. They have had it since new. It’s always been serviced by Ford. They were on their way home from Bristol Airport after being on holiday. The van just stopped on the M5 motorway with no indication. The AA man said it was extremely common, as he has dealt with 5 Ford Transit vans in the last 6 months with the same issue . Ford charged nearly 7k for a new engine with vat. It took 15 weeks for a new engine to be fitted, as they couldn’t source some of the parts. A wiring loom was damaged when the old engine was removed. Not good for Ford. keep up the good work with channel So you say Ford stands behind it's products eh....
@@HA05GER I had a ford Escape same oil bath timing belt always serviced at a ford dealership 170k it had done and they only changed the belt because the water pump had failed and it was still under warranty.
Drive a 2019 transit custom 112,000 miles no issues. Belt was replaced at ford a few weeks ago for nearly £2000. Mechanics recommended taking of the sump to clean the oil pickup strainer as this eventually blocks due to deteriorating belt and can also cause engine failure.
Hi Geoff, I have a 2019 Fiesta with the same wetbelt setup. The engine failed at 72000 miles with a full ford service history. Initial symptoms were reporting low oil pressure on the dash. I contacted ford and they weren't interested although they were quick to price a new engine at £7500 After some around the houses phone calls and still getting no where, I picked up a new crated engine and turbo from a popular place in Yorkshire who shipped the engine and turbo next day and a lot cheaper than ford were quoting. The car is currently in with my local indy mechanic being fitted. I'm going to pull the sump off the old engine when it's done and I bet you a bacon bap the oil pickup will be jammed full of old belt. I'll video it when I pull it apart, if you want the vid, let me know. I have also seen quite a few ecoboost fords coming up for sale near me recently, every one of them is a massive bill waiting to happen. People don't know the issues with these engines and continue to buy them. Seems to me now that any ford with this setup should be avoided at all costs.
The recommended timing belt change interval on the PSA XU10J4RS (Peugeot 306 Gti-6) engine was initially 72k. This was a dry belt system. After a few failures before this mileage Peugeot officially halved the interval to 36k. Book time for the job was approx 3.5 hours. I got so good at it I was completing in a whisker under 2 hours on the driveway. Going by this experience i would say whatever replacement interval your manufacturer recommends just halve it. Its a massive expense if you cant do it yourself but its a lot cheaper than a new engine.
I remember the T4 Transporter TDIs had a cambelt issue. That was found to be a water pump pulley issue and also a pre tensioner issue. VW repaired all the lost engines to snapping cam belts.
I guess every brand has its issues and VW are no exception, despite what people may think. However the way customers are being treated over this is disgusting, but I can't help thinking engines are now being designed with too much emphasis on emissions and cost at the expense of longevity. Just for example, BMW has has timing chain problems too, whoever would of thought that years ago. I had a water pump beating go in my little 108, in over 30 years I've never known it before.
I had a brilliant 2010 Transit bought new. It was sold in2017 with 230k It was an amazingly reliable machine. It went away with almost everything original. Since then it’s been a Custom with 185k on the clock. The oil pressure light came on about 6 months ago and I pulled up immediately. The oil strainer had become blocked with wet belt debris. Because I stopped immediately I reckon I saved the engine. The things that have gone wrong with this Custom you could write a book about. The quality has gone to the dogs. My son has two 70 plate full size Transits. It appears that he may be sitting on engines that are ticking timebombs even though they are regularly serviced.
Ford this is disgusting!!, we as a family bought a used ford transit custom 2020 and have had several issues including now overheating issues which is difficult for several mechanics to exactly diagnose. Now were concerned about the wet belt... aaaggghhh. we simply don't have the money to look after this van. we have recently bought a new engine as the dual mass flywheel disintegrated and as a result destroyed the engine. this has to be addressed FORD !!!
I can also confirm, a van I had to repair had the wet belt, I called fords they were far from intrested because it was just out of warranty they said no. Just to add: The wet belt had stretched and come of the oil pump pulley causing oil starvation destroying all the bearing shells came to me with massive rod knock. Was a new engine job Cheers
I was an AA Patrolman for 32 years from 1973 to 2005 and was able to replace quite a number of timing belts on non interference engines at the roadside. I'm really glad that I'm in a totally different industry now, (Beer Brewing) as I have no enthusiasm whatsoever for vehicles and their technicalities these days but having a belt that runs in oil is a recipe for disaster, if in fact it's made from traditional materials and not some new plastic like stuff. Then of course there's dual mass flywheels, another bone of contention.
All the manufacturer's are doing this now, Honda have a 3cyl petrol with a wet belt, PSA have a 1.2 3cyl with a wet belt, VW use a wet belt to drive the oil pump in their 2.0TDI. Ford themselves ditched the wet timing belt in the later 1ltr Ecoboosts and used a chain, but the damn idiots kept the wet belt on the oil pump, except they uprated the tensioner spring, which is now so strong it shreds the belt even faster!
Yep, just stupidity. In the US, there are some 3.0 V6 engines that have a timing chain with a oil pump belt behind it. How are you meant to service that!? Remove the engine every 100k!?
My mate recently bought a transit and that was 100 k miles on it and immaculate but they hadn’t done the wet belt but was regularly serviced and he s trying to get the wet belt changed and he can’t get anyone to do it as they don’t want to touch them so he went to the local Ford Garage to buy a belt to see if he could get another garage to do it and the Ford garage said there s a shortage of these belts and it’ll take a couple of weeks to get one . He s afraid to drive it now and it’s parked on his drive until it’s done , it’s running all ok but he s just afraid to take it out incase it snaps , !
The best thing you can do is leave your car outside the dealership, with messages on the inside of the screens, saying how crap the model you bought is. I heard a guy did this a while back in Darlington. He got a full refund from the garage!
I have one of the good fords: a 2004 Ford Ranger. Thing won’t die and we adore it. We had a more modern F-150 eco boost and it fell apart. I’ll never buy another Ford unless it’s older.
The 1st gen Ford S-max diesel automatics were incredible. We used them as shuttle buses in port work up and down ro-ro ships etc. Took quite the beating, slow speeds and high amounts of idle all day long. Only partially stretched on lunch breaks doing food runs. Never any problems with them as other vehicles came and went not up for the job.
I have had experience with this. I had a transit custom on a lease and the belt snapped before it hit 40k miles. It was after 3 years so was told bad luck it’s out of warranty. Not only that the brakes failed on me before it hit 20k miles when I was driving down a back road and I had to use the handbrake to come to a stop. I was late on the first service so they said the warranty was void. Which I take on the chin, although the lease company wouldn’t give me a clear cut answer to when it needed to go in, so I gave up trying to ask them. Anyway I got my mechanic to fix the vacuum pump which caused the brakes to fail, he used a genuine Ford part as it was the only one available, it then failed again a week later. After him fixing it twice it was ok but then the belt went. The brakes failing is also a major problem with these and I know a few people who have had this issue, and Ford took forever to sort it. These vans are shit and getting one on lease cost me so much money that I’ll never recover. It’s a shame as I’ve always had Ford cars but I’d never buy a Ford again. They just have known this would go wrong but maybe it’s a money making scheme? I know they subbed production out to Turkey to cut price on the new transits, maybe this has something to do with it, who knows. I know I’d never buy a Ford though. I now have a Vw transporter as they put the timing belt on the outside of the engine. If Ford would admit liability for this they would definitely go bust, it’s not just the vans either, the eco boost engines have a very similar issue. Shit build quality, anyone who is thinking of buying a Ford, do NOT!!!!
It's the same with their Ecoboost engines in the Focus and Fiesta. The sad thing is that in the US Ford have agreed on a recall to address this problem but as per usual we don't have the same consumer pressure groups to get thing like this sorted. I think Citroen also use a wetbelt system in their 1.2 engines so steer clear of these systems.
This video is so timely. The son of a lady at work has just bought a 1 litre eco boost Focus with the wet belt engine. I've told her the horror stories and the fact that watchdog are on the case. Plus there's a recall in the US but not the UK.
Whilst sitting in the Ford main dealer service reception customer waiting area, after our transit wipers had packed up and the van being around 14 months old from new, I picked up a leaflet about Ford warranty and was astonished to read that the WEAR & TEAR part of the warranty is only 1000 miles or 30 days from registration which was separate to the 3 years, 100,000 miles warranty the van comes with. Ford refused to carryout repairs as the wiper motor was worn out at 23,000 miles use according to them and that the van is only built for light duty use! No one explained this to me at the point of purchase that the vans were only for light duty use. We've now switched over to Mercedes-Benz Sprinters and their warranty from new does include wear and tear I was informed as long as its been serviced correctly. So for example, if the drivers seatbelt recoil is slow and tired, the van is 30 months old, 250,000 miles, its been serviced at the dealers, they will replace the seatbelt under warranty.
Not a ford, but we had a 2016 Citroen C3 Cactus which had a wet belt (we didn't know when buying it). Between 70 - 80K miles it kept going into limp mode as the oil pick up was getting clogged with timing belt debris. Luckily for us Citroen put out a recall to change the belts for our gen Cactus. We got the belt changed for free, and the engine flushed but the damage was already done. After getting the car back it was going though 1L of oil every 1-2 weeks doing about 300 miles before having to top it up again. The tail pipe tip was wet with oil passing through (we assume) the valve guides which had been excessively worn due to lack of oil from the clogged pickup in the sump. We couldn't find anyone willing to rebuild the engine as the top had been starved of oil, and the local Citroen dealer gave us the run around saying it would need a new engine, but we would have to pay for it up front and hope to refunded the cost after and investigation. We ended up selling the car to we buy any car in the end and replaced it with a 05 plate Yaris that cost £500 with MOT and has been very reliable.
We are telling all of our customers who have that wet belt engine to sell or trade them in ASAP. We have had so many issues with them. It's insane how bad this belt idea is. Glad I know they've lowered the warranty mileage. I can pass that on.
Helped my neighbour do his last summer (67plate), had been signed off as good by Ford but we decided to change it anyway, the 'good' belt was in a shocking state with not many miles left on it! Approx £600 to do on driveway, mileage was 107,000.
I was a Ford guy for most of my life. I recently bought a Chinese MG HS. Decent little car and I’ve had no problems with it. I’m sick of companies knowingly building crap engines and putting them into production.
We swapped over to VW’s about 4 years ago. Much better vans. Yes they are costly and no they are not the best vans to drive but . . . When we’ve got 8 crafters all over 250000 miles and on the original engines it goes to show where you want to spend your money. Previously we used Sprinters, one had nearly 400000 miles on it before it’s retirement. We had 3 Transit Luton’s in our fleet that arrived when the crafters did, they’ve already been moved on as they were nothing but trouble. Didn’t even get to 50000 before we gave up on em’
To be quite honest I've never heard of wet belts, the only belt l have on my 1973 vw beetle is for the dynamo and it can be changed while the engine is still running 😅
I work as a service manager for a car supermarket in Warwickshire and from my experience this problem extends to most if not all brands that use the wet belt system, but what we find far worse are timing chains on BMW and Vauxhall's. We probably do 40 to 50 timing chains between the 2 brands per year. (possibly more) The wet belts we have issues with are on PSA cars. We don't do many vans but of all the Transits we do get (around 6 years old and 100k+ miles) all have head gasket failures. I believe using other manufacturers engines saves them a lot of money with R & D but perhaps some components have compatibility issues, I am not sure. What I do know though is European car manufacturing is very poor across the board and now Vauxhall are owned by PSA parts availability is hit or miss on cars older than years, this has always been a problem with Peugeot and Citroen.
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A real scandal my son has just had his engine fail on a 69 plate Focus with 42000 miles on the clock. Why aren’t Ford made to sort this. We have always had Ford Cars, don’t think we will in future.
Honestly they should be forced to recall all these wet belt engines. You're not convincing me that not a single engineer at Ford knew this was a bad idea
Manufacturers can’t be forced into recalls, they’re entirely voluntary which is why there are so few. Tyler Durden explains the method in the documentary ’Fight Club’.
They identify themselves as toasters, too much woke shite, not as engineers.
@@JelloTypeR Over here it could be a class action lawsuit, only the consumer agency can file for one but since the law passed 2007 there haven't been any cases. Absolutely no corruption in Finland...
My transit custom was recalled and had a new wet belt fitted foc.on a 66 plate at 50000 miles
They do regard their customers as too stupid to understand. The design faults are deliberate. Designed to fail at a given mileage or age.
Spare parts and repair is where most profit is in the car industry
Ford know the chemistry of belts and oils. This is built in obsolescence.
I should have kept my mk 1 diesel Transit can’t remember the year but it was a 4108
It was old when I had it in 1977
Ford always have problems, everytime they fix something they discontinue whatever it is
When you know that they want car drivers off the road, your comment makes perfect sense!
@@Richard-r1x7d Perkins!
It's something more than obsolescence when that part plays such a critical role. This is planned scrap yard-escence
Belts shouldn't be contaminated in oil, design and engineering them to be contaminated in oil shows a level of stupidity in the engine design department that should result in sackings for incompetence.
I agree but they were probably over ruled by the directors.
Desperately trying to reduce emissions, while at the same time knowing it's going to be politically scrap within a few years.
@superloopy24v change the Belt for a Chain & they'll go forever.
@@douglastodd1947 NO NO NO! Change belts and chains for gears like in a VW air cooled engine.
Agreed, timing belts were designed to run dry, running them in oil is brain dead.
I work for the Yellow recovery/breakdown company. Our vans are dropping like flies. Mine went at 116k
Exactly and Ford are not going to sweet 9 vans a year buyer
Remember there was Ford advertisement decades ago for exchange engine for 100k LOL they keeping trraditions up!
I'm not sure why folk are NOT talking about the root of the problem. I have a mate who worked in a Ford dealership until recently. He was absolutely fed-up to the back teeth of replacing Transit motors with (for example, snapped cranks) week in, week out, 2 or maybe 3 a week and that dealership had loads still in the yard waiting for engine rebuilds/replacement motors. Dealerships are 'allegedly' paid up to £6k per exchange engine by Ford, however it's only a bare motor, so all auxiliaries have to be stripped off the failed motor, to be re-used (a very important point) ie Turbo/ Intercooler/ hoses/Radiator etc, without being flushed out, or purged, regardless of possible debris residue in any of these parts, further risking the life span of the replacement motor too. This was pointed out to the workshop manager, but he said, 'Button it up and get it out the door', so definitely a management decision, not the fitter who did not want to cut corners, but pressure from above was to get the vans turned around and back out the door asap.
The problem is not the wet belt per se, it is the length Ford have gone to, to meet ULEZ emissions levels, and all the Re-gens the motor has to go through in order to meet these ULEZ levels, and then all the failed re-gens if say for example, the motor was switched off during a Re-gen cycle, loads of vans live as a daily round the doors delivery vans with poss around 100 drops a day, what chance a completed re-gen now then? This in turn keeps pumping excess diesel into the engine to raise exhaust temps to burn hot and clear out the DPF etc (but also past the rings and into the sump) which then causes the rubber timing belt to decompose and finally fail, as the belt is fine in oil, BUT NOT FUEL.
Now for some 'alleged' figures, the lowest mileage Transit that dealership had to replace a motor had only covered 6000 miles!!! Worse yet to come, a replacement motor in a Transit was given back to their customer which didn't even survive 48hrs!!! One can only speculate that the cause may well have been due to particles/residue from the previous trauma, in the intercooler, or turbo, and here we go again.
On a closing note, think back, how long did it take Ford to admit the ECOBOOST 3-cyl motor was fatally flawed, and had marginal cooling and could not endure being thrashed, so an inspired choice to fit it in the Fiesta ST! That engine was nick-named by Ford mechanics as the ECOBOOM on account of the many, many failures
Well-done Ford, a clear leader in the field of dreams, or should that read nightmares?.
'' as the belt is fine in oil, BUT NOT FUEL. '' Well they are both slightly different fractions of hydrocarbon oil. If you look up a compatibility chart for O ring materials then you see that diesel and lub oil are lumped into the same cat.
@@julianstafford7071 That's as maybe, I wouldn't dispute your statement, however, clearly the belt composition is not that of a 'O' ring and cannot tolerate Diesel.
You didn't mention the dual clutch transmissions shuddering,
A mechanic sick to the back teeth of mending cars… has he thought about a change of career? Astronaut? Piano Tuner perhaps?
@@barryshitpeas5837 I presume you actually took in the story, that's exactly why he did get off the tools, nobody wanted him to do a thorough rebuild, foreman wanted corners cut that just didn't make sense. Moved on up the food chain and has a better paid job, and doesn't have to get his hands dirty now. So, well-spotted mate!
Wetbelt crap don’t buy Ford anymore
don't buy a Peugeot either, they have the same problem.
@@musicbruv Don't buy a VW either... wet belt in them.
Or a Honda Civic 1.0 then...
@Bionicweiner Did I say Expert? Do you know that Ford used Peugeot engines?
@@musicbruv
Pure tec engine also found in Vauxhall,Citroen,fiat , opel
As a former mechanic, I know three things are true about auto manufacturing:
1. Building a non-interference motor means that a failed timing belt doesn't destroy your valvetrain and piston heads. (Much cheaper and easier to repair.)
2. The use of a timing CHAIN versus a timing BELT massively increases the lifespan of the timing components, and timing CHAINS rarely fail.
3. Operating the vehicle's water pump by timing belt causes an additional failure point in the timing system, as pump seals can leak coolant onto the belt. A seized water pump can snap your timing belt, destroying your entire engine (as a friend one learned in her Dodge Stratus, with an interference motor).
Any of these engineers would know that rubber components do not play well with petroleum-based chemicals. If they don't know that, then they're obviously not qualified for the position. A "wet belt" setup makes sense for a timing chain, to keep the links lubricated and rust-free for 200k (or more!) miles. To expose the engine's oil to rubber, knowing that rubber belts typically shed microscopic bits of rubber during use, is absolute stupidity - or a definitive CHOICE made to make the engines fail prematurely.
The TL;DR of above? Building an interference motor with "wet" timing belt is a design resulting from any or all of the following: production cost-cutting, ignorance, laziness, or a deliberate attempt to generate future income via the service bays (for repairs) and sales (for replacement vehicles).
A rubber belt is cheaper to manufacture, and because it has a lower lifespan, requires periodic replacement. A timing belt service is NOT a cheap procedure, and depending on the vehicle, can be quite a tedious job. I've done them myself, AND paid shops to do them, on many vehicles over the years. "Belt vs. chain" and "interference vs. non-interference motor" are actually two major points of consideration for me in any car purchase...
Some good points mate. I've never heard of any diesels with non interference engines as the compression tends to be higher and piston to valve clearance reduced. I used to love the vauxhall petrol non interference engines when I was young as it took the stress off me doing the belt. A rubber belt running in oil is the the most ridiclous thing I've heard in 30 years messing with cars.
Looking at the state of design work on cars now (I fix Mercedes) I have wondered if there's a generation of engineers with Autism? Being serious too.
The chain is better for sure but BMW has a huge issue with them snapping.
😮 You can’t say that 😏
Mines chain with aux ran water pump, idea of timing BELT just gives me a pain in my soul, same as running water pump on timing gear, maybe I’m just used to mine but that just seams unnecessarily risky, complicated and unserviceable, takes me longer to refill my coolant than change my pump, shame BM started putting timing at back of engines and they started failing costing 4k+, whichever car maker chooses the kiss method and aims for longevity will dominate the market in 20 years from now onwards!
Very interesting. I've been hearing it's not just the belt snapping but bits of it braking off blocking the oil pump starving the engine of oil. Think that's what happened in my family members case. A very specific oil has to be used. And not just the grade. It has additional additives to protect that belt. But Ford really don't make that clear enough.
I worked for Fors because it was guaranteed work lol... at Subaru and Toyota all there was, was pil changes and preventative maintenance. At Ford and Chevy it was lemon after lemon. The government protects these companies, of course they would abuse this privilege....
Disgusting treatment of a loyal customer!!!
Loyalty means nothing. Kidding yourself if you think it does.
Unfortunately it's some pencil dick in the office that is only thinking of another fool customer to buy the product. Relationships, loyalty, product longevity, reliability mean nothing. I've never dealt with a dealership and never will. I'm 62.😡. Cheers for the video Geoff.
Contractor here my colleague had the same belt failure at 80 000 miles destroyed the engine now it’s a £8000 bill to replace the engine Ford isn’t interested??? This is scandalous to say the least 💩👎🏻
Timeing belts and oil dont like each other
We own 8 Ford’s, one just went at 80k fords answer was I best buy a new van- they offered new engine for £11,250
So glad I came across this....I was just about to purchase a 2021 custom van....
Welt belts, AVOID, AVOID, AVOID! Crazy idea😜
The whole problem with Ford vans started when they shut the Southampton factory and moved production to Turkey to just save a little bunce.
They went to Turkey as an EU funded bribe to stop the president letting over 2m illegals into europe, there were other companies relocated with EU funds at the same time.
Ford were encouraged to move to Turkey with a substantial financial incentive from the EU.
Well over £100 Million I believe.
Worked on the Ford Southampton site after closure ,all that was left was Ford special engineering division.
Very sad.
In my opinion the problem is a real design error of this engine (the PSA group knows this very well!) not where the car is assembled.
Engines are PSA - Peugeot Citroen junk, everyone shares platforms and engines most modern engines for low emissions are wet belt, Honda, vw etc
@@DashDriver-z1r the psa ones now being fitted to the cars are worse again. It’s so bad that Castro & Shell will not supply engine oil for them, due to litigation fears.
More reasons to run old vehicles.
i am afraid your right , i may buy a 1970's american car that i still can buy parts for and fix myself , - with no stupid fault codes ;;
@@simongilbert2704 A Chevy Caprice doing 15mpg should be ideal 😂
Defender
Try taking a pre-euro6 diesel into a large town or city in Europe, Paris and Stuttgart has outright banned them (soon to be followed by numerous other cities and towns in France and Germany), and London its £12.50 per day.
Mk1 fiesta , zero tax ,no mot needed, low emissions exemption...we all should be using classic cars , fk em .
This is a MAJOR safety issue. My son has a 2019 Fiesta 1.0l EcoBoost 63k miles fully serviced. Exactly the same issue, loss of power, no warning lights until the catastrophic failure. Ford taking no responsibility. I have hit them with the consumer rights act ‘reasonable time’ 6yrs and their own admission of 150k miles/10yrs longevity.
Reported to DVSA as a safety concern and they are now investigating. In the meantime Ford suggested a scrap value of £250 for a car that should be around £8k!
We are currently stuck and don’t know what to do. We are insuring my son on my husband’s car so he can get to work but that leaves us without a car. More than happy to do a video with you. Devastated for this lovely lady too 😢
Buy toyota.
Take to small claims court!
@@Tunners26 that was the plan. We needed a full Ford Diagnostics report which our local garage just kept asking us for more and more money for it. They are all in it together.
Garage Service manager 45 years here, luckily for me not a Ford dealership. But locally there is a Ford dealership who I know well. So imagine you are the small local Ford dealer, you have built up a sound business over decades. Your customers are friends because that's what customers become. Now loads of your customers bought Fiesta's, Transits etc, from you in good faith, they are now failing at an alarming rate, they have done nothing wrong, how long can their business last? I guess we will find out in the next couple of years!
I might be wrong but I think we will only have a few makes left in the future. What with China knocking out cheap electric vehicles flooding Europe not even big brands like VW can compete. It's by design I think so we have lesser choice. They can cotrol them easily like that if its just a few.
Ford are finished with the junk they are now producing and they know it,it’s only a matter of time before they finish production completely. I had a Ford Kuga diesel with that disastrous Powershift gearbox,that finished me with Fords and bought BMW ever since, 130,000 trouble free miles and counting,will never buy Ford again after a lifetime of never buying anything else, Cortina’s then on to Mondeos right through the years all performed well,Ford are finished.
What you have to realize is that Ford are on their knees financially due to the amount of losses they are taking on every one of their EV's! They have made a conscious effort to down scale their model range and number of factories as well as their staff! This push for Net Zero and the reduction of CO2 & other gases from vehicle emissions, has hit the motor industry hard as not one of them are able to make a profit out of EV's.
As a mechanical engineer this wet belt engine has to be the stupidest I have seen in over 50 years! Who at Ford gave it the go ahead,, or was it changed from a chain drive to a belt on cost grounds?
Should either have kept chain or at least dry belt.!
I think it’s all planned to keep cash flowing in either new engine or parts (ford only)
Cost grounds.
Ford spent many millions getting a chain thru the.warranty period in 2008 due to carbon buildup in oil wearing them out. I was testing them. I saw in my hands very expensive hardened roller chains machined of.a very good quality. This was needed due to carbon buildup in oil. I was getting oil samples and sending off every 24 hrs. Chains were being upgraded so they could pass warranty. I have seen quite a few chains over the years, these felt quality and expensive. It must be cost.
The government is forcing this. Wet belts get a nominal 1% better fuel economy toward meeting CAFE regulations.
In USA ford are fixing them. If it happened to me I'd have ford in court.
These " where you mis sold" lawyers,should be bringing a group action.
@@keithhooper6123 depends on !where! you were mis-sold
the US has a completely different legal system compared to anywhere in Europe. VW diesel-gate even originated in the US, was completely under the radar in Europe
usa system is extreme litigation europe is consumers have no rights litigation you can sue but will lose 90% of the time and if you win that 10% the company will be fined little and out of that litttle the gov takes 99% as fine and leaves you with 10$ compensation not replacing your bad vehicles or anything just 10$ that's it so nobody sane does it oh and it'll cost you hundreds of thousands and a good 10+ years to get those 10$
@@rosen9425 It was completely under the radar in USSA as well, it was revealed by some hacker mechanics.
Mid-90s to Mid-00s was the golden age for motoring - we need to go back to that technology
70s and 80s when Ford Capris ,XR2s and 3s etc were the best era.
@@DeborahWheelhouse-fd6rs there were some absolutely banging cars from the 70s and 80s, but I think by the 90s they'd taken all the best bits in terms of performance and reliability to give us the some of the best all round cars ever.
70s to early 2000s I would have said
I'm from Canada. Learned many years ago that buying Ford is a risky proposition. Ford is under investigation by the U.S. government for engine failures. AP News has an article dated October 4th, 2023 about this. Ford also had the most recalls for 2022,2023. They are usually number one or two for recalls dating back many years. Wish people would wise up to Ford. Do a little research instead of just assuming their products are good, or buying them because of some kind of tradition.
Hi Geoff a colleague at work brought one of these vans to make into a campervan (80,000) miles the water pump seized and auxiliary belt snapped!! As I used to be a mechanic I said I'd help her fix it,
I replaced the belt and pump and told her it's best to change the cambelt so I did and all was great at the fraction of the cost of a garage.!! 2 weeks later it broke down again and was towed to local garage who said wet belt has failed and needs new engine.!! (6,000) I told her to bring it back to her house and I striped it down !! I'm completely miffed why ford decided to also put another canvas belt running in oil!! In my days all cars were chain!! You can buy a chain kit for £200 why not fit this from factory?? .. it also had 7 bent valves and piston damage so I've changed all valves and modded the pistons!! ( I used to mod engines years ago. Vehicle is now up and running total spent £800 so colleague really pleased van back on road !! In my mechanical experience of 50 yrs these belts if fitted should be changed the same time as the dry belt found on the outside, canvas belts running in oil is not recommended in my experience....
They have been told not to work on old cars because gov doesn’t want you to have cars
yes i think that is the truth as per e u directive
Really? I've heard and seen some frankly ridiculous conspiracy theory crap online and this is well up there with the most ridiculous of them.
@@michaelgoode9555 I honestly believe that if labour win the UK election they will have most domestic cars off the road at the end of their first term.
@@michaelgoode9555So you're telling me that the Ulez in London and the upcoming pay per mile in the capital is a conspiracy theory? Get a grip of yourself 😂
@michaelgoode9555 have you read the UN's sustainability goals?
I recently worked for Ford and could not believe completely blown away at this fact and GM is doing it too disgusting Behavior I am independent now
And who else. You do know the others with wet belts. Ford led the way.
Just changed a Ford wet belt to chain at 97400 miles, because on an off chance inspection as I was around that area, the wet belt was shredding, (but only one spot inside between two teeth & not visible unless you spun the belt) it wouldn’t have lasted another 600 miles. Expensive ? Not really, the chain conversion was about £100 more than the wet belt replacement kit & I did it myself!
What vehicle was this on please ?
@@evilmotorsportMost likely a transit Connect ..I know a few who have replaced the belt with a chain
More info?
Ford C-Max 1.8TDI. Funnily (well not for the owner) my mate has last week had a TRANSvestITe van towed in, (wet belt blown engine) just under 100000miles FORD seem to have the "warranty runs out when it leaves the forcourt" mentality! Oh, don't touch the 'ECOBOOST' Fords either! Oh. don't get me started on the Ford Ad-blue system🤬 -
FORD = Found On Road Dead
At least there is a conversion, I own a VW T5 of 2007 vintage, not without their faults but much better than a transit. I’ve had fords in the past. Never again.
I said this would happen when Ford announced it and it was rubbished by a lot of people saying Ford knew what they were doing,well tell that to all the owners who have had one failure after another. I’ve worked in the motor industry for 60 years and over that time Ford have always purchased the cheapest components for their vehicles for as long as I can remember. Ford must have lost the plot thinking they could use a rubber neoprene compound belt and run it in hot oil and not have problems. Ford couldn’t give a shit about the customer but people are getting aware of these problems and buying elsewhere. Transits we’re the backbone of the van world but not anymore,a Sprinter will do 300,000 miles without any major repairs and so will most other makes if serviced correctly,I know one company who has done over 230,000 miles in a Citroen Bippa diesel 1-4. Secondhand Transits with these engines are worth salt as people wake up to the catastrophic costs of running these engines.
Geoff I spent 35 years as a motor engineer the first 13 of which in the FORD MAIN DEALER network including my 4 year apprenticeship. I have seen countless engines destroyed by poor maintenance the most common of which is through extended service intervals. 18,000 mile oil change intervals is totally insane!! No wonder these engines are failing so early. The engine oil at those sort of mileages is stuffed full to the gunnels with carbon deposits which clogs up the oil ways (black sludge) plus it attacks the timing belts.
HERE IS MY BEST TIP: Whatever service intervals the manufacturer states. . .HALVE IT and preferably do it EVERY 6000 MILES!
My two transit 1.0Lt petrol eco boost engines are supposed to be serviced every 14,000 miles. I do them every 6000 miles. Religiously.
As for wet timing belts. . . must have been designed by the same person who invented the chocolate fireguard!!
Lets get this message out there. Great channel!
I put a 350 v8 in an S10 as a service truck that towed a trailer every day for years. I changed the Mobil one and wix filter every 20,000 miles. It had 537,000 miles on it when I pulled it to freshen it. I took it to the machine shop that had done many racing motors for me. I took the engine completely tore apart to them and they measured everything and found it needed no machining and didn't need to be cleaned either. I freshen it up and as luck would have it I raced it and won king of the track with that motor in that S10. It won several races that year, I have a 1500 with 364,000 and 23 yrs later it runs great and still gets 28mpg along with a 01 suburban with the 8.1 with 300 , 000 , miles. Good oil and filters is how these engines have survived so long
100%. The BS around 18000m oil changes is ludicrous. Who made up this shit? I get nervous after 10000miles let alone 18000. My van is a 2018 with 22K miles. I get the oil and filter changed every year without fail plus I turn off the stupid stop/start function. Its an engine killer.
Get Suzuki to teach Ford how to make exceptionally reliable engines.
Or Mazda. Ford rebranded the Mazda designed MZR to Duratech when they had a controlling share.
Why would they do that?
Ford knows how to build good engines , they have in the past but they are building them small and cheap , the epa probably can take some blame for pushing ever more impossible emission standards on car makers too put tiny throw away engines in them , but still , if the belt was an issue , ford could have changed the servicing to replace the belt every 50,000 miles for example or whatever worked which probably would have stopped the engines blowing up even if it meant more servicing cost .
I agree The Boosterjet 1.4 engine is a peach.
Suzuki and Toyota are working together.
Geoff I’ve been covering this issue with Ford wet belt engines for over 12 months, it’s not only Ford who are having the problem, it’s VW , Peugeot,Citroen,fiat, Vauxhall, Honda
Honda doesn't Use Wet timing belt's, And last Well over 100,000 miles for most people, If that weren't the Case I would know because I am a Mechanic, So not sure were you got that strange information from.
Buy Japanese, their the only ones not ball deep in the ev con.
@@raymondreiff8170
Honda p10a engine
Sabotage!
Honda 1.0 litre is wet belt
Hi Geoff, my friend’s 2018 low mileage Ford Custom Tourneo had a wet belt snap last year. The mileage it snapped at was 43,589 miles. They have had it since new. It’s always been serviced by Ford. They were on their way home from Bristol Airport after being on holiday. The van just stopped on the M5 motorway with no indication.
The AA man said it was extremely common, as he has dealt with 5 Ford Transit vans in the last 6 months with the same issue . Ford charged nearly 7k for a new engine with vat. It took 15 weeks for a new engine to be fitted, as they couldn’t source some of the parts. A wiring loom was damaged when the old engine was removed. Not good for Ford. keep up the good work with channel 😀.
I don't know how it is over there. But here you could sue the dealership for not recording the service information correctly. I worked for a Ford Dealership we had meetings about accurate work orders and labor reports.
This should have been free as a good will gesture. Serviced correctly according to manufacturers specifications and only 6 years old and under 50k miles. At least pay half the cost! Terrible service
😊@@paultasker7788
I work for a telecom company. At our location we had 4 17 plate transit custom vans. All 4 had belts fail before 70000 miles. The last one just last week. Vans don't do really high mileage and are serviced on time.
It's a potentially really dangerous situation when the van just stops working without any previous warning.
In the USA they have issued a recall to fix the problem.
And how to solve this problem?
There was a recall issued in the UK a while back but, if its past certain parameters, such as mileage, it voids it under warranty, and the customer, or the lease companies have to pay for it.
Ford goes the same way Crysler did.
To the scrapyard.
About bloody time. Chrysler made better cars than Ford. Sad. Ford should have gone away a long time ago.
@@calysagora3615 I blame the Fusion & f-150 for keeping them alive.
Found On a Rubbish Dump say no more. In Australia ford is more or less no more except for a few rangers being sold.
A friend owns a mechanic's shop, and he's had quite a few in for wet belt breaks, all under mileage failures, and ford aint interested. Wouldn't touch a wet belt ford van.
Peugeot cocked up on the service interval on 306 GTI engines. The timing belts were going well before the service recommendation, so most of those cars had to have new engines dropped in under warranty, I think the failures were going around the 30k marker or something like that, instead of the 45 onwards.
Mine went and ford said because the viscocity of the oil was not stated on one service they refused to do anything, no more Ford for me
Exactly the same as for Polly in the video.
Ahhh, the old "you haven't used the correct oil" excuse. Peugeot do the same.
@@GeoffBuysCarsconsidering the 'environmental impact' by having to keep changing belts that can't be recycled, why haven't the government mandated chains be used instead? Oh wait we all know why.... our felicias on 122k miles now/26years old & still has it's original timing chain.
Any reputable garage will record the viscosity, if not they are in the wrong business. If you had changed it yourself, you would have the proof.
Was the service on your van carried-out by a Ford Main Dealer, an independent mechanic, or in-house at your company?
Because if it was a Ford Main Dealer and *they* didn't specify in the Service Book what oil was used, then surely it's down to them that the warranty wasn't honoured, and therefore the Ford Dealer who failed to fill-in the Service History to Ford standards should be liable?
If it was an independent mechanic then, in my experience at least, they could potentially sling whatever cheap 3rd-World rubbish "Oil-Type-Product" they can get for the lowest possible price-per-drum into your van, and that could easily rot the belt in no time if these Wet Belts need a specific grade/formulation to prevent premature degredation?
Equally, and without wishing to cast any aspertions, it wouldn't be unheard-of for the proper (and therefore no-doubt expensive...) oil to mysteriously find it's way into one of the mechanic's car boot ready to do-a-foreigner for his mate at the weekend, and for that mechanic to replace it with 3rd-World rubbish in the van they're working on for their boss to make a few extra quid on the side?
I know it's a horrible thing to say, but I've had exactly that experience when I supplied both a Genuine BMW Oil Filter Element (@£32) and 8 litres of Castrol Edge 0W-30 (@£84) because I didn't want a crap filter from the local motor factors and crap oil in my F11 530d, and then watched (and got a video of, luckily...) the snotty little oik take the 2 4 litre cans of Castrol Edge out of the passenger footwell of my car and chuck them in the boot of his 350z before I'd even left the car park...
Needless to say I went straight back in and demanded my keys back, then asked where my oil had gone and was asked "What f@%&ing oil's that then mate? -There wasn't no oil in that f@%&ing car..."
So I showed him the video, he suddenly remembered that he'd "put it there for safekeeping" and I left, never to return, but I'm sure it wasn't a totally isolated incident considering how rapidly this country's descending into hell in a flaming handcart?
I went to test drive a Ford Focus a couple of weeks ago when fortunately I met a mechanic who said don't touch it with a bargepole because of the wet belt issues. I'm glad I took his advice.
This guy's got the same idea I have. About doing a channel with a philantropic outlook interviewing people who the system has failed with no other option with the outlook of getting them the exposure that hopefully gets them the help they need. I'm in Australia though, but I grew up listening to a guy called Howard Satler on the radio who did a similiar thing for people such as people who lived in public housing who couldn't get their toilets fixed for example and were getting nowhere through the normal channels. He was kinda a shock jock, and well , you can look up the reason he was cancelled if you want, but he reallly did help ALOT of people which I would LOVE to do. Good on you Geoff!
A friend of mine has a small plumbing business. They need four vans but but he has five because there's invariably one off the road for some reason.
He's tried most makes, but reckons none of them are wonderful.
He's been in business since the early nineties and says the best vans were designed in the 1990's.
EPA standards destroyed engines.
I agree,90's or early 2000's were the best. Changing the oil say 8,000m would make engine last. For the sake of oil,the filter,the parts & labour with the VAT on top it's silly to go further than 10,000m on ANY diesel.....so use decent oil & don't always trust dealers as they DO NOT use the oil they say. Dealers need to make money & the oil dept is where they lie!
Yep the 90's were the years that cars and van's were the most reliable. One car example being the Peugeot 205 diesel..... an astounding car. I'm a Land Rover fan ( not the latest expensive crap) and I think the best engines they ever used were the 200 / 300 Tdi's.
Only trouble 90's transits were rot boxes, modern ones have better rust proofing but crap mechanical.
The answer is to put an old engine in a modern van. 😂
@@mrfishbulb7187 Trouble is MOT emmisions check linked with year of the chassis wouldn't allow it. But that would be the ideal if we could..
Ford Eco-Bang
Eco-BOOM
@@bentullett6068nonsense,they just need looking after with regular oil changes with correct spec oils.great littke engines and very smooth.have had fords since the 80s,done hundreds of thousands of miles in them with few issues.oil changes every 6000 miles,not this 20 or 30000 miles nonsense.
@@ivanfernyhough3851unfortunately that just isn’t the case. These engines fail regardless if you baby them or not.
The diesel is the Ecopoo
@broken12367 you allways hear off the moaners but never off all the thousands of happy people with no complaints,thats the problem with these internet days.
My dad has a car shop and I told him not to service cars with wet belts when they came out. A while later he thanked me, because other mechanics he knows got in trouble for those things blowing up and Ford blaming the garages, stating the oil wasn't the right spec.
For the Ford engines with wet belts, the oil needs to have the "WSS M2C948-B" specification, afaik only available on 5W-20... which at least in some applications isn't what would normally be used.
Even if you use the correct oil with a "ford garbage exclusive" can that's not used for any other oils ever, they can still avoid blame because guess what, by the time the belt snaps or slips the oil won't be exactly to factory spec anymore. Especially if you drive short distances, you fuel can/will make it's way into the oil, which in small amounts wouldn't be tragic unless some idiot decided to run a rubber belt trough said oil.
Personally, I've never been a fan of any kind of long life motoroil ideas. VW started that during the late 90s early 2000s as optional... and it sucked. Not only were the oils in "questionable" states when changed (or dead), the oil also was so expensive that it was cheaper to do multiple changes on shorter intervalls.
It's not the manufacturers, it's the EPA.
The 2.0l transit custom EcoBlue engines uses Ford spec WSS-M2C950-A 0W-30
Bring back the 2.5 DI "Banana" engine, end of problem! 👍
They might be a bit slow but you’ll always get there ..
I work for my local authority (Brighton and Hove City Council) who have always used ford transit based chassis cabs as the base for our cage vans, for street bin rubbish collection. From the original MK1, to the MK5, i've noticed a MAJOR difference in the quality and durability of these chassis vehicles. We have 6 x '13' registration vans, which have well over 300k miles on. These were purchased used from a highway maintenance company back in 2016 with 270k miles on and have had no issues, nothing to speak of at all. They are serviced and maintained every 3 months and given a safety inspection every 16 weeks, as standard with any local authority vehicle (similar to NHS and Public bodies, Police, Fire etc).
Then we come to the 8 2018 and 2019 registered vehicles. We have had issues with front door hinges, engine mounts, cam-belt and aux drive belts failing, at well under spec for their lifespans. Then we come to the Oil pump belts. These have been the worst offenders. Every single van has had a failed oil pump belt at one stage, one particular van has had 4 replacement engines, all due to the oil pump belts failing (one failed just over 4 weeks after the brand new engine had been fitted, fitted by our local ford dealership, at the cost of over 13k).
We've now gone to electric for our street cleansing vans. Having been loaned an electric transit, we were astonished at the lack of quality to parts in the cabin, the infotainment system rebooting constantly every 15 to 20 mins (even with nothing connected to it, like Bluetooth or android/ apple car-play).
Our local dealer who loaned us the vehicle couldn't have cared less, all they were interested in was that lucrative order. No feedback was sought, no information on how the demo went, NOTHING. Dinages ford, what a joke!!
For the cost per vehicle, we went to Mazus, having purchased 8 new Mazus E deliver9 vans, 3 converted to jet-washing and graffiti removal vans, 4 as tipper body cage vans, and one luton van.
then was have two Mazus T90EV pickups, mainly for environmental enforcement, bin and box deliveries and other related works. The Mazus dealer was SO MUCH more interested in us as a customer, not only our money, but our feedback, our ideas, use cases etc. They even asked if there was any features we would find useful, that could be implemented.
Amazing staff at Rivervale in Portslade.
Don't understand why they don't just make a chain conversion kit like they did for the old 1.8 tdci with the wet belts, which had the same problem. Stupid idea, I'll never buy a vehicle with a wet belt, basically worst of both worlds!
How much would a chain conversion kit cost ?
Just for others so this comment doesn’t confuse too much, the 1.8tdci engine with wet belt essentially has 2 belts, it has one wet belt at the bottom ( from fuel pump) but a conventional timing belt running up to the cam. The wet belt version came in late 2007 so basically what people were doing is simply replacing the the wet belt with the chain etc that was fitted to earlier versions of that engine, it’s not that ford created a new part, or a conversion, it’s just simply people were changing theirs back to the earlier spec. Eg ( I’ve owned a June 2007 mark 2 ford focus 1.8 tdci from brand new, ( yup coming up for 17 years ownership lol) it has lower chain and upper conventional cam belt, if I bought the car 4 months later it would have had lower wet belt and upper conventional cam belt) So in short these twin systems are different from what some may be thinking of a conventional single timing/cam belt and there was no conversion or special kit, it was just retro fitting the older parts 👍
Why didn't they just use a chain in the first place
@@shanemcentee9171 Well erm in this case they did lol, it’s just they changed it, they’ll say it was maybe quieter or smoother etc etc but no doubt in reality it was probably just cheaper lol, although really just a false economy.
@@michaelperrin2531 I doubt it's even possible without major re-engineering. I believe PSA were in the process of doing this to the wet belt system on the puretech.
Work van was recalled and they checked the belt and said it was ok. The van had engine failure about a month later ford did cover the repair costs as they had checked the van and had said it was ok.
It’s a common problem, the oil rots the belt and the bits block the oil filter resulting in engine failure. You normally get the oil light come on, before the engine fails.
The bits don't block the filter. The block the oil pick up.
@@0TheLastLoneWolf usually it strips its teeth , and then the valve timing goes out and the valves hit the pistons , the rockers break, the cams move on the shafts ..the only (sometimes) warning signs are the brakes play up as debries end up in the brake vacuum pump, you can check the belt - (not a good check), by peering down the oil filler hole with a torch, but you cant see the teeth side of it .
@@Concorde-AXDN and it still happens when you use the correct oil from ford
@@0TheLastLoneWolf everytime i explain - my replies keep vanishing
That is a different mechanism to a snapped belt.
We had 5 Ford Torneo's that were 2018 with the 2.2 diesel engines have oil pump failures before 100k These were airport transport vehicles. We started changing the oil pumps as a service item. Engine replacements were recon Ford that had also probably had oil pump failures and would fail shortly after fitting. One did 200 miles and the cam chain snapped. These were Ford warranty replacement engines. We scrapped the fleet within 3 years at a massive loss.
This has happened to us - a 2021 Ford Ranger, 45k miles and they want us to replace the engine for +£12k cost and refusing to cover this under goodwill because the first service was done outside of the recommended timeframe. Where do we go for help!! this is madness?
Built-in obsolescence. You can't buy a reliable car/van any more. The manufacturers have cottoned on to the software sellers - make sure you have the customer on a (financial) leash.
agree, get the vehicle thru the lease period is all they want
Yes,will be keeping my twenty year old Piaggio diesel.
And it sounds like electric despite relative simplicity is not going to help this as there are reports of quotes for 11k to replace a faulty heater in a 5k Zoe and 7k for a faulty charging port. Because your average garage won't touch them.
Nonsense. Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Mazda... All ridiculously reliable if maintained. And some others also if choose the correct model.
I've been driving the newer shaped VW crafters (2017 onwards) for years and they all have been super reliable. The one I currently drive is a 21 plate with over 130,000 miles on the clock and still drives like new, never had a single problem with it.
My dog walker got a used transit. After a few months she told me the timing belt snapped, Ford had agreed to repair it under warranty. I'm a very novice DIY mechanic ie I can do oil, pads and filters and occasional other things like shocks. When I asked her if it was a chain or belt she said no its a rubber belt that goes through oil. Me with my, at best DIY skills, "that can't be right, rubber and oil will fail because oil dissolves rubber". Then I'd heard of it happening to lots of transits. I can't believe Ford engineers thought it would work when someone like me can see it wouldn't.
Probably young kids being hired fresh out of "design school".
Rubber belt in oil....nobody done that before ar'nt i clever.
ford engineers said NO, but the CSD (corporate suicide department) said "great idea!"
They are fine in oil but not in diesel, which diluted the oil.
@@dantheman1337I used to test ford angines at a well known consultancy, and some times engines were tested with 12% of diesel in the oil. Ran on dyno, and so on. It was never made clear to me why tho. Overfuelling engine testing?
Ford's argument on this one is that a very specific type of oil needs to be used. Using the same grade is not adequate as their oil also contains additives to protect the belt. I would argue that Ford dont make this clear enough. They could easily put a warning on the oil cap or somewhere highly visible like page 1 of the handbook. They don't.
I had a feeling this would be the case.
It’s in the handbook, how clear do they need to make it? People generally treat cars with absolute contempt as a white good. Never serviced then they start whinging when it blows up.
It wouldn’t be fords own oil would it, by any chance?!!
My colleague has had 3 engines in his full size Transit now, costing 7k each time. Madness
At this point get a new van from a different manufacturer, preferably Japanese.
Great work Jeff! The only way these massive companies will listen is through mass negative publicity, you were spot on with all your points, they’ve built an inferior product which is not fit for purpose bit like the early Eccoboost engines. Keep up the good work my friend, you are a quality content creators. Thumbs up from me 👍
Not a wet belt comment, but went to a Ford garage as I have done for many years, service plan.
This time customer service desk poor service, vehicle serviced, video inspection by text, told vehicle gone for wash, when I saw it, looked like it had been washed in dish water. Checked service book, not completed, went back in, can you please complete it, oh it’s electronic now, NO, I want the service book completed. Get the usual Ford survey, so I gave a poor review, within hours had general manager of the garage on the phone, explained, offered a free MOT when I come in next if I would re complete survey, why so Ford and management think everything is hunky dory. Next time I’m going to another a Ford garage.
yes free MOT with £400.00 pounds of repairs required
Trouble is they all seem to be the same 😭
Agreed. Had similar experience with Volvo and VW.
I use a local garage for service and MOT. Very fair. Trust them to do the job.
My new galaxy went in to people's ford after breaking down, they took 6 weeks to say it was contaminated diesel, the service manager told me face to face that the fuel tank and lines were red rusty.... His face dropped when I pointed out that both tank and lines are plastic...
The first day I got the car back it wouldn't start, RAC found a dropped bolt had shorted the starter blowing a main fuse, then 2 days later while on the motorway both scuttle trims blew off as they'd not been attached properly.... My insurance had taken a fuel sample and they said there was no contamination and refused to pay for the repairs leaving a £3000 bill that fortunately the lease company said they would pay as Ford still wouldn't honour the warranty.
Working in the motor trade 30 years ago they told us do not get no oil on that rubber belt or it will contaminate the belt and it will snap now they completely submerged in oil what a stupid ucking idea 😅😅😅😮😮😢😢😢😢😢 god help us 😊😅😮
I see this comment all over the place, do you genuinely think Ford etc just decided to put a standard timing belt in oil, they didn't do any research to change the materials or design in any way? Wet belts are crap because they require very specific oil compositions to hold together, but arguments like this are nonsense.
The story of the woman in this vid shows YOU are talking nonsense!!!
After all she had all her vans serviced by an official Ford dealer!!
I think Ford made a catastrophic miscalculation about the durability of wet belts at the expense of their customers!!!
And yes EVERY mechanic KNOWS rubber doesn’t like oil!!
I have an average miles 2007 mk7 Transit. Drive it every day and it never misses a beat!
I sold my 2011 transit in Feb, 227000 miles and never missed a beat. ULEZ forced my arm. Gutted
I used to have a 2.2 transit custom 2015 which did 37 mpg. Then changed for a 2.0 ecoblue 2019 model and mpg is exactly the same. Those 2.2 engines last forever and 2.0 is complete junk. No end of issues with it since I’ve had it. All in the name of progress.
💯 2.2 but 😢cost me in ukez fines when tired ans forgot to pay 😢.
Great engine 👏
Never buy ford. "Gods of cheap"
@jonathansimmons5353 or good to get me to jobs
Tried vauxhall,fiat and renul
I’ve seen a good few ford custom vans broken down and being towed, makes sense now, thanks for video👍
Employer had a Transit 2.5 litre turbo ,and it did 100,000 miles,almost no problems.After that ,the newer models , just couldn't compare.Useless dual mass flywheel,now these wet belts.Insane.
As a mechanic of 35yrs I always changed timing belts on diesel engines at 80 thousand miles which was the recommended service schedule on most manufacturers with petrol engines being about same and that’s a dry belt so how on earth can a wet belt be 150,000 and even with the reduction to 100,000 is beyond life expectancy so seems ford an the like done this purposely to keep their workshops busy and keep dealers selling vehicles
My 2016 ford focus ecoboost blew a hole through the oil sump literally a few hours ago. I've actually been researching this issue since I bought it in February. Got some of the parts for the wet belt replacement about 3 months ago but now the issue caught up to me.
Hi Geoff, my Ford dealer is generally OK, It's the Ford Motor Co's Customer Relations department that let's things down.
I was going to buy a 21 reg 3008 with the 1.2 petrol. When I found it had a wet belt I asked about any problems and the dealer said there wasn't any problems. I decided not to bother as I am sure rubber and oil doesn't mix.
Wise decision. I had that engine in a 308 and it was a nightmare.
You were right to avoid this brand. Buy a Suzuki, Toyota or Honda instead.
@@bondjamesbond9041 I actually ended up with a Seat Leon FR 1.5 auto. It's lovely.
Bought a 1.6 petrol suzuki four years ago. Best car i've ever had, never missed a beat. Apparently it has a chain instead of a belt. The amount of new shape defenders that I see that already have only one of the front headlights working shows how poor some new builds are...
I've got a suzuki swift 152,000 miles no hassle
@@RoyDavidson-g7g brilliant cars.
I've had Suzuki for over 20 years no issues. Dumped Ford due to their Cambelt incompetence!
Will never touch Ford, Vauxhall, or VW again.
5 years ago Had a 2008 Ford Motorhome Cam chain snapped. Cost around 5 thousand to repair. Only had 24 thousand miles.on clock Ford didn't want to know
I have a ford custom transit camper van. It’s a 66, wet belt. I have had it since 2019 when it had 8000 on the clock. It now has 42000 on the clock, I have the oil changed with the mot every feb. I was told by ford to have the belt done next service so it’ll have about 46-48000 on it by then and it’s about £1100 from my local ford to do the belt. Fingers crossed it doesn’t snap by then!
Bought a 68 plate transit custom, 3 months later wet belt snapped at 104k… zero help from Ford. Had the ability to track the service history and oil gradient but lumped me with 8k bill and caused issue after issue from the dealer. 10k in repairs and van still has issues. It financially ruined me. Still looking for help.
Feel for you buddy. My 2010 Transit has just shat its turbo, so I was looking at the weekend at a new transit and seen two I liked at the garage. However I've stubbles across this problem and like you, I couldn't just pull the money out of thin air to sort this mess out if I was unlucky like you. Hope you get sorted
I believe all the wet belt design came about to meet the new European regulations going forward for low emissions. Part of that noise and part of it is trying to save fuel and extended Service period is all part of saving the planet and less oil changes but of course the engines were out prematurely because of this.
Mechanic, I’m disgusted with the modern engines going backwards to meet new admissions standards instead of looking for liability long-term service
emissions and reliability...spell check and the gremlins of predictive text ?????
We have on old “inefficient” boiler. Easy to repair and they last 40 years.
Back in 2010 (I think) we were made to switch to “modern” condensing boilers “to save the planet”. These last 10 years before they need to be replaced. I really do wonder how these “save the planet” people sleep at night.
@@dward5945 wait until cars have to have Euro 7 specifications.
All the new regulations since Euro four has made the vehicle unreliable long-term .
Just had to do a welt belt in my son's Fiesta, around £1000. Every mechanic I spoke to said replace every 50K miles, at £1K each time. Probably around 7 out of 10 garages I asked said they wouldn't touch them.
Same with my astra 1.6 diesel with timing chain issues garages won't touch it either takes to long
WOW! A grand a pop. Fiestas are suppose to be a cheap transport,glad i drive a Yaris as the chain don't need doing till 200,000m with regular servicing & decent oil, that goes for the chain guides too!
the cheapest I have seen on youtube channels proper garages charge about the £1400.00 mark for a cam belt ???????
No thats bullshit, loads of places do them at £8-900 some less if they’re doing them regularly. Ford would charge you £1400 but why would you go there?
I have a Transit and I don't have a problem, but then it's a 31 year old smiley 😂 round the clock 3 times, it's brilliant, and no ECU.😂😂 NO Tec.
The 2.5 di ? Banana engine bullet proof.
Most advanced electronics onboard is the radio 🤣. Just perfect. Have an old Escort that is now on its 4th time around the clock. It did get an engine on the 2nd but not due it blowing up on its own. There was a huge body of water on the road, a pickup truck came in hot on the opposite sense and just threw a wave over my car. Engine sucks in water and boom, lifted the head. Still drove home tho.
Keeping welding wire producers in business as well.
Common problem in the USA also. Some oils make the belt degrade faster than others. It's almost like belt needs changed every 50k miles and pickup tube cleaned out also.
Friend of mine has a 19 plate (bought it new), he's done 18k miles, he's had two BCM's (one he had to pay £600 to fix) due to water ingress which ironically stops his windscreen wipers working, they found after 5 weeks a grommet was letting by, instead of fixing the design of the grommet, they've designed a deflector to sit over the bcm in case of any more leaks, I was always a Ford fan but now they are a premium price product without the quality and reliability.
20.35 . I have a 2017 transit pick up with 36826 miles which is stuck in the yard and will not start because of an adblue issue. There have been issues where diesel leaks into the oil , when a failed regen occurs on the diesel particular filter. Ford did have a recall to update this. This oil contamination was also degrading the wet cam belt. I have heard that oil pressure was seriously reduced as a result of the oil pick up pipe being blocked from degraded parts of the wet belt. I have the oil and filter changed every 5000 miles and the sump is taken off to check the oil pick up .The other issue is , garages will only guarantee a new cambelt for one year or 12000 miles. That’s an additional £1000 Cost every year . Ford originally said 150000 miles then dropped to 100000 miles. Once they are changed ,it’s now 12000 miles or 12 months.
FORD, YOU MUST DO BETTER!!!!!!!!!🤬🤬 😊
I got my adblue deleted it caused me headaches and money loss so got it removed
Hi Karl. Thank you so much, I had through the grape vine it could be done. I’ve just checked and it’s booked in. I’ve just been quoted £400 which is so much cheaper than the £1800 to replace the whole system . I was told to deliver it first thing Monday and it will be ready by lunch time. Cheers buddy
@@UB6RB9 no probs plus I'm saving money not buying adblue anymore 😆
Ford are destroying themselves must have some backers 💵💲💰💰💲💸 I really feel for this lady . Ford used to be the bastion of motoring cheap to use cheap to fix fun to drive.
@gizmo8247 Old Henry is turning in His Grave..
@@douglastodd1947
Ol Henry's wet belt snapped...he's not turning no more..
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk
Was it before or after he was buried in a pile of Powershit transmissions 🤭
Cheap to make.
The wrong oil is the biggest killer
But they do need to have the belts changed at 60/70k
But it costs over a grand a pop so...
Yeh I think they can last if looked after correctly. Hardly see them fail with full ford history.
@@HA05GER people top up with the wrong oil as it's very very difficult to get hold of, even did ford didn't have any when I checked last summer
@@therealdojj never known that to be a problem I have a ecoboost
@@HA05GER
from another comment:
Hi Geoff, my friend’s 2018 low mileage Ford Custom Tourneo had a wet belt snap last year. The mileage it snapped at was 43,589 miles. They have had it since new. It’s always been serviced by Ford. They were on their way home from Bristol Airport after being on holiday. The van just stopped on the M5 motorway with no indication.
The AA man said it was extremely common, as he has dealt with 5 Ford Transit vans in the last 6 months with the same issue . Ford charged nearly 7k for a new engine with vat. It took 15 weeks for a new engine to be fitted, as they couldn’t source some of the parts. A wiring loom was damaged when the old engine was removed. Not good for Ford. keep up the good work with channel
So you say Ford stands behind it's products eh....
@@HA05GER I had a ford Escape same oil bath timing belt always serviced at a ford dealership 170k it had done and they only changed the belt because the water pump had failed and it was still under warranty.
Drive a 2019 transit custom 112,000 miles no issues.
Belt was replaced at ford a few weeks ago for nearly £2000.
Mechanics recommended taking of the sump to clean the oil pickup strainer as this eventually blocks due to deteriorating belt and can also cause engine failure.
Hi Geoff, I have a 2019 Fiesta with the same wetbelt setup.
The engine failed at 72000 miles with a full ford service history. Initial symptoms were reporting low oil pressure on the dash.
I contacted ford and they weren't interested although they were quick to price a new engine at £7500
After some around the houses phone calls and still getting no where, I picked up a new crated engine and turbo from a popular place in Yorkshire who shipped the engine and turbo next day and a lot cheaper than ford were quoting. The car is currently in with my local indy mechanic being fitted. I'm going to pull the sump off the old engine when it's done and I bet you a bacon bap the oil pickup will be jammed full of old belt. I'll video it when I pull it apart, if you want the vid, let me know.
I have also seen quite a few ecoboost fords coming up for sale near me recently, every one of them is a massive bill waiting to happen. People don't know the issues with these engines and continue to buy them.
Seems to me now that any ford with this setup should be avoided at all costs.
The recommended timing belt change interval on the PSA XU10J4RS (Peugeot 306 Gti-6) engine was initially 72k. This was a dry belt system. After a few failures before this mileage Peugeot officially halved the interval to 36k. Book time for the job was approx 3.5 hours. I got so good at it I was completing in a whisker under 2 hours on the driveway. Going by this experience i would say whatever replacement interval your manufacturer recommends just halve it. Its a massive expense if you cant do it yourself but its a lot cheaper than a new engine.
I remember the T4 Transporter TDIs had a cambelt issue. That was found to be a water pump pulley issue and also a pre tensioner issue. VW repaired all the lost engines to snapping cam belts.
I guess every brand has its issues and VW are no exception, despite what people may think. However the way customers are being treated over this is disgusting, but I can't help thinking engines are now being designed with too much emphasis on emissions and cost at the expense of longevity. Just for example, BMW has has timing chain problems too, whoever would of thought that years ago. I had a water pump beating go in my little 108, in over 30 years I've never known it before.
@@rob5944BMW have really improved recently on reliability, b58 is a corker.
I’m glad I bought the custom 2.2 without the wet belt came along.
got a 2010 trannie with 235k on the clock. Durotec engine. brilliant motors.. Shame about the bodywork !
I had a brilliant 2010 Transit bought new. It was sold in2017 with 230k It was an amazingly reliable machine. It went away with almost everything original. Since then it’s been a Custom with 185k on the clock. The oil pressure light came on about 6 months ago and I pulled up immediately. The oil strainer had become blocked with wet belt debris. Because I stopped immediately I reckon I saved the engine.
The things that have gone wrong with this Custom you could write a book about. The quality has gone to the dogs.
My son has two 70 plate full size Transits. It appears that he may be sitting on engines that are ticking timebombs even though they are regularly serviced.
Ford this is disgusting!!, we as a family bought a used ford transit custom 2020 and have had several issues including now overheating issues which is difficult for several mechanics to exactly diagnose. Now were concerned about the wet belt... aaaggghhh. we simply don't have the money to look after this van. we have recently bought a new engine as the dual mass flywheel disintegrated and as a result destroyed the engine. this has to be addressed FORD !!!
I can also confirm, a van I had to repair had the wet belt, I called fords they were far from intrested because it was just out of warranty they said no.
Just to add:
The wet belt had stretched and come of the oil pump pulley causing oil starvation destroying all the bearing shells came to me with massive rod knock. Was a new engine job
Cheers
Awhh Geoff, you're on a roll now with the new format.
Great stuff.
I was an AA Patrolman for 32 years from 1973 to 2005 and was able to replace quite a number of timing belts on non interference engines at the roadside. I'm really glad that I'm in a totally different industry now, (Beer Brewing) as I have no enthusiasm whatsoever for vehicles and their technicalities these days but having a belt that runs in oil is a recipe for disaster, if in fact it's made from traditional materials and not some new plastic like stuff. Then of course there's dual mass flywheels, another bone of contention.
I worked a while at the orange company. No way would I do timing belts roadside! Crazy!
All the manufacturer's are doing this now, Honda have a 3cyl petrol with a wet belt, PSA have a 1.2 3cyl with a wet belt, VW use a wet belt to drive the oil pump in their 2.0TDI. Ford themselves ditched the wet timing belt in the later 1ltr Ecoboosts and used a chain, but the damn idiots kept the wet belt on the oil pump, except they uprated the tensioner spring, which is now so strong it shreds the belt even faster!
Yep, just stupidity. In the US, there are some 3.0 V6 engines that have a timing chain with a oil pump belt behind it. How are you meant to service that!? Remove the engine every 100k!?
Thats a recent revision to VW 2.0 TDI? It's been a very strong engine.
My mate recently bought a transit and that was 100 k miles on it and immaculate but they hadn’t done the wet belt but was regularly serviced and he s trying to get the wet belt changed and he can’t get anyone to do it as they don’t want to touch them so he went to the local Ford Garage to buy a belt to see if he could get another garage to do it and the Ford garage said there s a shortage of these belts and it’ll take a couple of weeks to get one . He s afraid to drive it now and it’s parked on his drive until it’s done , it’s running all ok but he s just afraid to take it out incase it snaps , !
The best thing you can do is leave your car outside the dealership, with messages on the inside of the screens, saying how crap the model you bought is. I heard a guy did this a while back in Darlington. He got a full refund from the garage!
I have one of the good fords: a 2004 Ford Ranger. Thing won’t die and we adore it. We had a more modern F-150 eco boost and it fell apart. I’ll never buy another Ford unless it’s older.
The 1st gen Ford S-max diesel automatics were incredible. We used them as shuttle buses in port work up and down ro-ro ships etc. Took quite the beating, slow speeds and high amounts of idle all day long. Only partially stretched on lunch breaks doing food runs. Never any problems with them as other vehicles came and went not up for the job.
I have had experience with this. I had a transit custom on a lease and the belt snapped before it hit 40k miles. It was after 3 years so was told bad luck it’s out of warranty. Not only that the brakes failed on me before it hit 20k miles when I was driving down a back road and I had to use the handbrake to come to a stop. I was late on the first service so they said the warranty was void. Which I take on the chin, although the lease company wouldn’t give me a clear cut answer to when it needed to go in, so I gave up trying to ask them. Anyway I got my mechanic to fix the vacuum pump which caused the brakes to fail, he used a genuine Ford part as it was the only one available, it then failed again a week later. After him fixing it twice it was ok but then the belt went. The brakes failing is also a major problem with these and I know a few people who have had this issue, and Ford took forever to sort it. These vans are shit and getting one on lease cost me so much money that I’ll never recover. It’s a shame as I’ve always had Ford cars but I’d never buy a Ford again. They just have known this would go wrong but maybe it’s a money making scheme? I know they subbed production out to Turkey to cut price on the new transits, maybe this has something to do with it, who knows. I know I’d never buy a Ford though. I now have a Vw transporter as they put the timing belt on the outside of the engine. If Ford would admit liability for this they would definitely go bust, it’s not just the vans either, the eco boost engines have a very similar issue. Shit build quality, anyone who is thinking of buying a Ford, do NOT!!!!
It's the same with their Ecoboost engines in the Focus and Fiesta. The sad thing is that in the US Ford have agreed on a recall to address this problem but as per usual we don't have the same consumer pressure groups to get thing like this sorted.
I think Citroen also use a wetbelt system in their 1.2 engines so steer clear of these systems.
Lee from car uk calls these Eco Booms and doesn’t buy them as he gives his own warranties I think
I have a 2014 Citroen C3 1.2 vti with a wet belt, just had it replaced as per service of 10 years or 112000 miles.
I’m pretty sure that that only applys to the automatic versions in the us. They have a balance shaft the manual transmission versions don’t.
This video is so timely. The son of a lady at work has just bought a 1 litre eco boost Focus with the wet belt engine. I've told her the horror stories and the fact that watchdog are on the case. Plus there's a recall in the US but not the UK.
Whilst sitting in the Ford main dealer service reception customer waiting area, after our transit wipers had packed up and the van being around 14 months old from new, I picked up a leaflet about Ford warranty and was astonished to read that the WEAR & TEAR part of the warranty is only 1000 miles or 30 days from registration which was separate to the 3 years, 100,000 miles warranty the van comes with. Ford refused to carryout repairs as the wiper motor was worn out at 23,000 miles use according to them and that the van is only built for light duty use! No one explained this to me at the point of purchase that the vans were only for light duty use. We've now switched over to Mercedes-Benz Sprinters and their warranty from new does include wear and tear I was informed as long as its been serviced correctly. So for example, if the drivers seatbelt recoil is slow and tired, the van is 30 months old, 250,000 miles, its been serviced at the dealers, they will replace the seatbelt under warranty.
They wont listen untill it hurts them big time
Not a ford, but we had a 2016 Citroen C3 Cactus which had a wet belt (we didn't know when buying it).
Between 70 - 80K miles it kept going into limp mode as the oil pick up was getting clogged with timing belt debris. Luckily for us Citroen put out a recall to change the belts for our gen Cactus. We got the belt changed for free, and the engine flushed but the damage was already done. After getting the car back it was going though 1L of oil every 1-2 weeks doing about 300 miles before having to top it up again. The tail pipe tip was wet with oil passing through (we assume) the valve guides which had been excessively worn due to lack of oil from the clogged pickup in the sump.
We couldn't find anyone willing to rebuild the engine as the top had been starved of oil, and the local Citroen dealer gave us the run around saying it would need a new engine, but we would have to pay for it up front and hope to refunded the cost after and investigation. We ended up selling the car to we buy any car in the end and replaced it with a 05 plate Yaris that cost £500 with MOT and has been very reliable.
I thought that the worst wet belt was the 1.2 pure tech engine, Citroen, Vauxhall, Peugeot
You willingly bought a Cactus. 😂 You are clearly out of your depth
@@peanuts2105 Wife's choice, she still wants one even after this. Purely a her taste in style.....
@@jjcale1976 going on what we have found out since, I would be inclined to believe you!
We are telling all of our customers who have that wet belt engine to sell or trade them in ASAP. We have had so many issues with them. It's insane how bad this belt idea is. Glad I know they've lowered the warranty mileage. I can pass that on.
Helped my neighbour do his last summer (67plate), had been signed off as good by Ford but we decided to change it anyway, the 'good' belt was in a shocking state with not many miles left on it! Approx £600 to do on driveway, mileage was 107,000.
I was a Ford guy for most of my life. I recently bought a Chinese MG HS. Decent little car and I’ve had no problems with it. I’m sick of companies knowingly building crap engines and putting them into production.
We swapped over to VW’s about 4 years ago. Much better vans. Yes they are costly and no they are not the best vans to drive but . . . When we’ve got 8 crafters all over 250000 miles and on the original engines it goes to show where you want to spend your money.
Previously we used Sprinters, one had nearly 400000 miles on it before it’s retirement.
We had 3 Transit Luton’s in our fleet that arrived when the crafters did, they’ve already been moved on as they were nothing but trouble. Didn’t even get to 50000 before we gave up on em’
Not wet belt but chain, with a slipper adjuster they will just keep going. Wet belt a no no.
To be quite honest I've never heard of wet belts, the only belt l have on my 1973 vw beetle is for the dynamo and it can be changed while the engine is still running 😅
I work as a service manager for a car supermarket in Warwickshire and from my experience this problem extends to most if not all brands that use the wet belt system, but what we find far worse are timing chains on BMW and Vauxhall's. We probably do 40 to 50 timing chains between the 2 brands per year. (possibly more) The wet belts we have issues with are on PSA cars. We don't do many vans but of all the Transits we do get (around 6 years old and 100k+ miles) all have head gasket failures.
I believe using other manufacturers engines saves them a lot of money with R & D but perhaps some components have compatibility issues, I am not sure. What I do know though is European car manufacturing is very poor across the board and now Vauxhall are owned by PSA parts availability is hit or miss on cars older than years, this has always been a problem with Peugeot and Citroen.
A real scandal my son has just had his engine fail on a 69 plate Focus with 42000 miles on the clock. Why aren’t Ford made to sort this. We have always had Ford Cars, don’t think we will in future.
This is the world we live in, Cost cutting and Greed to keep stockholders happy while unhappy lifelong customers walk.