Yeah I was kinda new into the concept and had to learn a few things just to get going. Also there was a lot of time spent just doing math and learhing new things that I had less time to do conclusion. But now I am getting better andb etter and that means more time for things like that.
Comparing Devoted + Reconfig alone VS Devoted + Reconfig + overlapping creatures is the kind of analysis we need. :) Also thanks for doing the Malcolm/Tymna breakdown again.
YES! When I looked at Devoted + Reconfig alon I was supprised it got a low winrate. So I thought let's test combining it with other things and BOOM we found a much smaller group and a much higher winrate. Finding that was key in the conclusion I made. And moving forward I will look more into that.
Great video! As a Thrasios/Bruse player I think you sumed up pretty well the way the deck is intented to function. Last weeks there is some debate around Seedborn Muse, cause some people consider it "too good" or "too threatening" and overreact to you playing it, so maybe it would be nice to have Seedborn Muse's stats in this deck. Thank you! : )
The answer is that it is played in call but 1 deck. So it is more or less an auto include. So it has the same winrate as the total average. So saddly I can't say anything regarding it. BUT! I can look into all 2000 decks and see what winrate seedborn muse gets. I am starting to calculat and gatther more and more commanders so eventually I will get there. I am planning on doing a top 20 best green cards and I will look at seedborn muse then. But I will also say this. I have played it sisay. And I do feel you really just becomes the target when you cast it. It feels like tap 5 mana and get interacted with.
@@cedhtv yes, that's what I thought, that most of the time it feels like you are spending 5 mana just to get answered and instantly targeted. However, I still have It in my deck. The few times it sticks for a turn cycle or two it puts you in a really good position to win.
Snap isn't just interaction but also a wincon with Cradle and Witness. Would be interesting to know the winrate for the complete package: Cradle/Witness/Snap, Spellseeker, Crop Rotation. With that package, Spellseeker + either Snap or Cradle wins the game.
I remeber you asked about gilded drake. I actually forgot to showcase it in the video. But the drake is sitting on 22,62 Winrate so that is an increas of +0,77% with an inclusion rate of 77,2%. So it seams to be a good card for this commander. I think that we are starting to see what kind of playstyle this commander pair should have and I think the answer is kinda midrange. Problem is that midrange strugels a bit. And I think that is the reason way it gets a lower average winrate then some other commanders. Maybe. a lot of speculation here.
Derevi can combo without Thrasios: - Get infinite mana (Emiel/Dockside) - Have derevi and Ring on the field - You can then flicker Derevi to flicker Ring to draw your deck without Thrasios
Suggestion: it would be cool if at the end you grabbed all the "statistically" best cards and created the "statistically best" version of a deck just to see what that would or wouldn't include. I'm pretty slow for numbers so it'll be easier for me just to have a visual representation of what the 100 "statistically best" cards in a deck are ❤
haha I have thought about that actually. I have a feeling it wouldbe a bad deck :P hahaha. But it would be fun. Also it would be a good ilustration. So that is in plan. I just don't know a good way of doing it jet. I think I will end up doing a moxfield decklist and just copy past the decklist. That might be the end method.
Absolutly. So some games go to draw. In tournaments there are often a 90 or 75 min timmer. Once that has run out players get one turn EACH and if no one wins it is a draw. This is a reason why the total average winrate is lower then 25%. Becous when you have a game that goes to draw no one won. That is the draw rate. The % of something going to a draw. You have the average draw rate calculated for the commander. then the draw rate that each card get only looking at decks playing that card.
That second list was running basalt monolith, just didn't run grim too. Edit: Derevi + Emiel + Gaea's Cradle is inf G w 4 creatures. Second Edit: Any blue land + Gaea's Cradle + Snap + Eternal Witness is infinite green mana w 3 other creatures.
I think wargate is hurt by people copying comedians list and playing it without experience. That would be the most common path for new players to the deck imo
I could agree to that. Wargate is a bit weaker to other green creature tutors. And honestly you might just always and only tutor for dockside. But I don't know. But I would agree that a lot of players might copy Ian.
Derevi combos were dry for me. It can synergize with one ring, but the separate parts are clunky. I took a different approach that uses hullbreaker horror and twinflame dualcaster which have combo pieces that can operate better on their own. Underworld breach is also one of the most powerful cards in the current meta I don’t think it should be taken out.
One thing I am rceently testing with is adding breach lines to bruse thras while also having ephemerate and final fortune to turn spellseeker into a one card win condition as a way to increase the card quality of breach and increase the win potential of a single creature tutor
Strangly I found a bad winrate for spellseeker on 21,58% well that is close to the average. But there was a lack of underworld breach with spelleseeker. Hard to say. It was the combo I thought a lot would play when I looked at the deck.
It's not a great combo in Thrasios Bruse because Thrasios Bruse is a midrange deck. Breach belongs in turbo decks with lots of rituals, wheels and such to make the most of it. Essentially turbo strategies have a low card quality (lots of cards which aren't great on their own like rituals, wheels, led, brain freeze etc), midrange decks on the other hand are less explosive but have a high card quality. Almost every card is impactful by itself. That's why adding Breach lines makes it worse. Adding Spellseeker Ephemerate Final Fortune would further increase that problem and make the deck worse still.
@@mechanicircusa card advantage for 4 mana is still considered very bad. But i know that Thrasios is an infinite mana outlet. This is why I prefer 5c / Bluefarm or TnT more.
@@vatarantsif you invest 4 mana to draw a card with thrasios i think you might have wrong mindset to play thras deck frfrfr ngl the deck that win tournament with thrasios is not ''thrasios focus deck'' however I'm agree w//u that 4mana draw 1 sucks
I love that we got a proper conclusion this time. The first couple of videos were missing that.
Yeah I was kinda new into the concept and had to learn a few things just to get going. Also there was a lot of time spent just doing math and learhing new things that I had less time to do conclusion. But now I am getting better andb etter and that means more time for things like that.
Comparing Devoted + Reconfig alone VS Devoted + Reconfig + overlapping creatures is the kind of analysis we need. :)
Also thanks for doing the Malcolm/Tymna breakdown again.
YES! When I looked at Devoted + Reconfig alon I was supprised it got a low winrate. So I thought let's test combining it with other things and BOOM we found a much smaller group and a much higher winrate. Finding that was key in the conclusion I made. And moving forward I will look more into that.
Great video! As a Thrasios/Bruse player I think you sumed up pretty well the way the deck is intented to function.
Last weeks there is some debate around Seedborn Muse, cause some people consider it "too good" or "too threatening" and overreact to you playing it, so maybe it would be nice to have Seedborn Muse's stats in this deck.
Thank you! : )
The answer is that it is played in call but 1 deck. So it is more or less an auto include. So it has the same winrate as the total average. So saddly I can't say anything regarding it. BUT! I can look into all 2000 decks and see what winrate seedborn muse gets.
I am starting to calculat and gatther more and more commanders so eventually I will get there. I am planning on doing a top 20 best green cards and I will look at seedborn muse then.
But I will also say this. I have played it sisay. And I do feel you really just becomes the target when you cast it. It feels like tap 5 mana and get interacted with.
@@cedhtv yes, that's what I thought, that most of the time it feels like you are spending 5 mana just to get answered and instantly targeted. However, I still have It in my deck. The few times it sticks for a turn cycle or two it puts you in a really good position to win.
These are super cool big fan!
Thanks for the mention in the video. As always very good video
Thank you Mons. Great video, very insightful. Thanks for listening to feedback! You bring up interesting musings on wargate
Snap isn't just interaction but also a wincon with Cradle and Witness. Would be interesting to know the winrate for the complete package: Cradle/Witness/Snap, Spellseeker, Crop Rotation. With that package, Spellseeker + either Snap or Cradle wins the game.
Sorry it has taken some time. Also sorry stil no answer jet. Haven't had time to find that answer or calculat it.
Thank you for fulfilling this specific request.
Np!
I remeber you asked about gilded drake. I actually forgot to showcase it in the video. But the drake is sitting on 22,62 Winrate so that is an increas of +0,77% with an inclusion rate of 77,2%. So it seams to be a good card for this commander.
I think that we are starting to see what kind of playstyle this commander pair should have and I think the answer is kinda midrange. Problem is that midrange strugels a bit. And I think that is the reason way it gets a lower average winrate then some other commanders. Maybe. a lot of speculation here.
Oh btw, the reason we play derevi is cause it usually make infinite mana with emiel + cradle or bloom tender.
Yeah I gussed that. That is the combo sisay goes for. It is just that Thrasios cant tutor for it. But you run a lot of tutors.
At some point if you want to talk about this, I can speak for the deck and choices that I made going into Silicon Dynasty 2
I do. Well not now that I have alredy made a video. But I used to make these deck tech interjuves. Do you have discord?
@@cedhtv yup, same username. Only place it’s not my tag is twitter. Generally identifiable by a picture of the Pokémon Dreepy.
Derevi is good exactly for the lines you mentioned. It's also great with The One Ring
OH YES! That one too.
Derevi can combo without Thrasios:
- Get infinite mana (Emiel/Dockside)
- Have derevi and Ring on the field
- You can then flicker Derevi to flicker Ring to draw your deck without Thrasios
Suggestion: it would be cool if at the end you grabbed all the "statistically" best cards and created the "statistically best" version of a deck just to see what that would or wouldn't include. I'm pretty slow for numbers so it'll be easier for me just to have a visual representation of what the 100 "statistically best" cards in a deck are ❤
Maybe you can test them out too
haha I have thought about that actually. I have a feeling it wouldbe a bad deck :P hahaha. But it would be fun. Also it would be a good ilustration. So that is in plan. I just don't know a good way of doing it jet. I think I will end up doing a moxfield decklist and just copy past the decklist. That might be the end method.
@@cedhtv that's perfect for me ❤️
Sorry for asking an easy question. Could you please define draw rate?
Absolutly. So some games go to draw. In tournaments there are often a 90 or 75 min timmer. Once that has run out players get one turn EACH and if no one wins it is a draw. This is a reason why the total average winrate is lower then 25%. Becous when you have a game that goes to draw no one won. That is the draw rate. The % of something going to a draw. You have the average draw rate calculated for the commander. then the draw rate that each card get only looking at decks playing that card.
That second list was running basalt monolith, just didn't run grim too.
Edit: Derevi + Emiel + Gaea's Cradle is inf G w 4 creatures.
Second Edit: Any blue land + Gaea's Cradle + Snap + Eternal Witness is infinite green mana w 3 other creatures.
Tymna & Tana!
Bloodpod actually has an really good winrate. really low sample size but good resualts from that still. Yeah I can take a look.
You should do one for Malcolm vialsmasher
Eventually I will. Like I will try and do all commanders that have 50 or more games in tournaments.
I think wargate is hurt by people copying comedians list and playing it without experience. That would be the most common path for new players to the deck imo
I could agree to that. Wargate is a bit weaker to other green creature tutors. And honestly you might just always and only tutor for dockside. But I don't know. But I would agree that a lot of players might copy Ian.
Derevi combos were dry for me. It can synergize with one ring, but the separate parts are clunky. I took a different approach that uses hullbreaker horror and twinflame dualcaster which have combo pieces that can operate better on their own. Underworld breach is also one of the most powerful cards in the current meta I don’t think it should be taken out.
Dargo thrasios pls
I can look into that one. Don't know when I will get to do it. So I promis to make it but I don't promis of when.
Grim Monolith with Kinnan can't generate infinite colorless mana , you need zirda
Yes but all decks when I looked for grim had zirda in them.
One thing I am rceently testing with is adding breach lines to bruse thras while also having ephemerate and final fortune to turn spellseeker into a one card win condition as a way to increase the card quality of breach and increase the win potential of a single creature tutor
Strangly I found a bad winrate for spellseeker on 21,58% well that is close to the average. But there was a lack of underworld breach with spelleseeker. Hard to say. It was the combo I thought a lot would play when I looked at the deck.
It's not a great combo in Thrasios Bruse because Thrasios Bruse is a midrange deck. Breach belongs in turbo decks with lots of rituals, wheels and such to make the most of it.
Essentially turbo strategies have a low card quality (lots of cards which aren't great on their own like rituals, wheels, led, brain freeze etc), midrange decks on the other hand are less explosive but have a high card quality. Almost every card is impactful by itself. That's why adding Breach lines makes it worse. Adding Spellseeker Ephemerate Final Fortune would further increase that problem and make the deck worse still.
Bruse and Thrasios has very low value from command zone and i don't like it.
That might be true for bruse...but having a mana sink in the command zone that provides card advantage is not exactly low value.
@@mechanicircusa card advantage for 4 mana is still considered very bad.
But i know that Thrasios is an infinite mana outlet.
This is why I prefer 5c / Bluefarm or TnT more.
@@vatarantsif you invest 4 mana to draw a card with thrasios i think you might have wrong mindset to play thras deck frfrfr ngl the deck that win tournament with thrasios is not ''thrasios focus deck'' however I'm agree w//u that 4mana draw 1 sucks