and yet in the recent ep you see comments like "omg archer could have finshed this fight in 1 second. why are they giving shirou so much plot armor?" faith in humanity = loss, i understand how you feel archer.
xendingalot It also partially has to do with Fate sitting in an odd place in the genre department. You could call it Shonen but that is if you only came to Fate for the action, which while awesome is short and not the point Fate is trying to get across. You could call it Seinen but there is still this slight immature feeling to it being Nasu's second game published as well as having high school protagonists which unfortunately makes people think high school=Shonen or not deep which is complete bull considering series like Oregairu and of course Fate.
When Archer said: "That's exactly the mistake I made!" and Shirou replied: "There's no way it's a mistake!" I got this impression of that the producers thought this would probably be the main discussion for Shirou of a Lifetime when he marries or gets Tohsaka pregnant.
Heavens feel Shirou: You two are wrong... Sakura is surfering even in your routes, and you two are figthing for shitty reasons... 😭 Fate and UBW Shirou: What in the hell is this guy saying? Archer: What in the hell is Sakura? I couldn't remember her anymore. Shinji: hehe, Emiya is losing his time with his ideals, nice time to play with Sakura. Fate/UBW Sakura: Sempai 😭 Fate/UBW Zouken: hehe, looks like Sakura is enjoying the worms inside her, but Gilgamesh is too dangerous, i'll wait for another route.
Anyone else think Archer let himself be stabbed? Like, he realized that Shirou's ideals were only strengthened? Because he could have easily projected Rho Aias...
Shirou was able to fight that good against Archer because he was absorbing his knowledge, something only possible when the same human being is in front of you. But at the end, the same happened to Archer, he became to absorb Shirou's knowledge and he saw that night Kiritsugu died... "If you can't be one, I'll become one for you...! Just leave your dream to me." When Archer remembered that, he come to the conclusion that even if it's hypocritical, it's a beautiful dream, and had to give up.
Super late answer but in the VN it is clearly described how he stopped himself from slashing Shirou because he couldn't help but be reminded of his past when he saw how much Shirou clinged to his ideal. The VN describes how Shirou was half-dead and his hands were bloodied and injured to the point you couldn't tell what part was his hand and what was the sword. And the image used in the VN showed Archer with his sword arm raised but he leaves it there as Shirou stabs him. So Archer could have killed SHirou, but instead chose to let Shirou's blow hit.
well his magic power already at the red zone at that moment.... and he use UBW and that cut his magic down more and i think he actualy can kill shirou easy if he wanted to, long range snipe done... in this fight i got that feeling that he only just wanted to make sure if shirou will make the same mistake as he did before "the archer road" or find another that lead to brighter future
4:19 Archer: A generic character bound by worthless conventions his whole life. Only flame lies ahead at the end of internet forums. Have you realized that's what you really are? Shirou: Basta...... Archer: Are you sure you want to become a main character?! Shirou: I don't want to become one! I will become one! Archer: I thought so! Since that is the sole emotion you have! Shirou: What did you say?! Archer: You are simply in awe. It's only because that man looked so GAR in Fate/Zero that you wanted to become like him. You simply borrowed your ideals! Shirou: You're wrong! Archer: I was driven by the singular belief that I had to be a main character. Not realizing I was acting stereotypical, I kept running forward. The wish of wanting to be as popular as a main character out of Fairy Tail! If you can't live on without being a shounen hero, then drown in memes carrying it!
I've noticed the stark difference between those who've read the visual novel, and those who've watched the various anime adaptions. Visual Novel readers tend to really enjoy Shirou's character, while anime watchers do not. Why is that? Because alot of Shirou's actions aren't easily understood unless you hear his thought process provided in text. I'll go to scenes of the anime on UA-cam and see fans comments completely misinterpret Shirou's intentions, often assuming he's being self righteous, arrogant, or completely ignorant. When in fact his actions are often a result of something more complex. Perhaps his greatest motivator for many of his actions throughout the story is the following: His immense survival guilt following the great fire. Shirou would think back to how he had left others to burn, as they begged for his help, and as a kid he abandoned them as he searched for a path to salvation from the hell he found himself in. After he was saved, he began to believe that he had no right to survive the tragedy, that those who died were far more deserving then him. This is where he started to put others before himself. His survivor's guilt is so bad that he will not let himself enjoy various outings throughout the story. Like the outing with Rin and Saber, at one point, he realized he was actually enjoying himself. And as soon as he realized that, he mentally beat himself up, and told himself he had no right to feel happy there. Another primary motivator: his connection with Archer. People think he's being arrogant and self righteous when it comes to Archer. In reality, Shirou was enraptured with Archer from the very beginning. And he always did notice their similarities, especially when others would make passing comments about it. This is where the resentment set in. Shirou already resented himself, so it was natural that it got directed to someone so like himself. What's worse, he sees his ideals, the ones he desperately clings to as his one reason to live, twisted beyond comprehension. All of that is hard to accept, so Shirou would act in a way that is "truly unlike him" as Saber puts it. And Shirou agreed with Saber. Archer brings out a side of Shirou that he never experienced before. I could go on and on. Like Fate Route Shirou's view of Saber isn't "She's a woman that needs to be saved." He grows to truly understand her, through his visions, and sees she lived a tragic, yet honorable life. He didn't want her to regret her life, he wanted her to move on, find her own happiness, and to love herself. Which is ironic, because the same could be said of Shirou, because his future path to Archer is eerily similar to Saber's path to the Holy Grail.I've noticed the stark difference between those who've read the visual novel, and those who've watched the various anime adaptions. Visual Novel readers tend to really enjoy Shirou's character, while anime watchers do not. Why is that? Because alot of Shirou's actions aren't easily understood unless you hear his thought process provided in text. I'll go to scenes of the anime on UA-cam and see fans comments completely misinterpret Shirou's intentions, often assuming he's being self righteous, arrogant, or completely ignorant. When in fact his actions are often a result of something more complex. Perhaps his greatest motivator for many of his actions throughout the story is the following: His immense survival guilt following the great fire. Shirou would think back to how he had left others to burn, as they begged for his help, and as a kid he abandoned them as he searched for a path to salvation from the hell he found himself in. After he was saved, he began to believe that he had no right to survive the tragedy, that those who died were far more deserving then him. This is where he started to put others before himself. His survivor's guilt is so bad that he will not let himself enjoy various outings throughout the story. Like the outing with Rin and Saber, at one point, he realized he was actually enjoying himself. And as soon as he realized that, he mentally beat himself up, and told himself he had no right to feel happy there. Another primary motivator: his connection with Archer. People think he's being arrogant and self righteous when it comes to Archer. In reality, Shirou was enraptured with Archer from the very beginning. And he always did notice their similarities, especially when others would make passing comments about it. This is where the resentment set in. Shirou already resented himself, so it was natural that it got directed to someone so like himself. What's worse, he sees his ideals, the ones he desperately clings to as his one reason to live, twisted beyond comprehension. All of that is hard to accept, so Shirou would act in a way that is "truly unlike him" as Saber puts it. And Shirou agreed with Saber. Archer brings out a side of Shirou that he never experienced before. I could go on and on. Like Fate Route Shirou's view of Saber isn't "She's a woman that needs to be saved." He grows to truly understand her, through his visions, and sees she lived a tragic, yet honorable life. He didn't want her to regret her life, he wanted her to move on, find her own happiness, and to love herself. Which is ironic, because the same could be said of Shirou, because his future path to Archer is eerily similar to Saber's path to the Holy Grail.
Anime watchers are really accostumed to cardboard MC's that are just there to tell a story, and judge Shirou under these standards. They are the same that value more the HGW aspect of the story over the concept and character exploration aspect. This is why F/Z is better regarded by anime only's, as it is a better plot driven story, centers more about the HGW than about the characters that are part of it, and doesnt focus entirely on one and his/her perspective. F/SN loses a ton of depth once you remove the inner monologues, specially Shirou's, making the watcher omniscient of the events but not the character's thought processes.
+* AkaTsubasa * lol I think about these sort of things a lot. But in the fate stay night universe what your affinity, in this case Shirou and Archer is swords, it's what creates your in life and also what ends your life. In this case, swords are what gave them life, and what will kill them, as Archer decided to act as a sword to protect Shirou
It feels like this fight was much more intense than the 2015 version, however the 2015 fight had much more backstory going into Emiya's change into becoming Archer. Even though his ideals were not his own, they were still ideals *someone* had to take hold of, which is why I approve of them myself. If you have an ideal, never let it go, if you do and someone else is willing to take it up on your behalf, those are still ideals to hold onto, despite them not being your own. It's why we have a Will when we die. It's our ideals which are passed down to the next generation.
+ExplosivePeeps I feel like Deen had the right idea, but not the length to execute it well while Ufotable had the length but squandered most of it with needless repetition and a lack of clash and impact. It sucks that one of the most important scene of F/SN will forever lack the proper portrayal that it deserves...
+ExplosivePeeps That's why I don't like the fight of archer and shirou made by ufortable. Rather than implying the whole emotional things in a subtle way, Archer and shirou basically just talked through the whole backstory in 2015 ver. The whole emotional struggle was supposed to be complex and feel by ourselves, and now someone is actually using few sentences describing that complex emotion of archer. Not saying it isn't good, I just don't like it.
Edward I agree. In this ver, when they are fighting, you can actually feel Archer's frustration about Shirou not understanding, and Shirou's desperation to deny that Archer is the result of his ideal. In the new one, its just them basically reiterating the same point over and over again over a period of 3 episodes through long winded monologues and flashback sequences. Looked mighty pretty though
+MrInuhanyou123 Indeed, it just like someone draw a shape, and you have to guess what this shape is. And ufortable basically said "This is an apple". And now everyone think this is an apple. We don't even need to think about it. And the answer is simplified, that shape is more than an apple.
The sole redeeming scene of the movie. Animation and emotion is better in ufotable's rendition, but there's no denying the intensity you can achieve in less than ten minutes.
Tbh my favourite ubw is the ubw from Oath Under Snow, also can cast projection inside UBW and it costs 1/10th of what they should due to the weapons already existing inside the marble somewhrre
This is a way better fight than UFO version, but I liked the Kiritsugu flashbacks in UFO, it gave feels. They should mix the two. Feels + Badassarey = masterpiece
I still prefer this fight over the new one , the anime just felt like they were talking , but in this movie you can feel the intensity of both characters
You can't be serious or you just prefer action over substance. Shirou just went and beat Archer in this with no logic. In the VN and also the anime, he actually changed Archer's mind and opinion. He didn't beat Archer in battle but in ideals.
@@tiaaaron3278 thats the thing you cant put a novel into an anime , if you see a movie the spectator need to see a movie not a damn light novel talking about ideals debate instead of fight for who is right . An anime needs improvisation not like the shitty ufotable that copy paste only the novel.
@@tiaaaron3278 look at HF part 3 they tried so hard to out a novel into a movie and what happened it was rushed , even mire rushed then this movie kirei vs shirou fight was less then a minute and the ending was a worst mess
@@ozysalt4831 Do you realise how silly that sounds?! The adaptations aren't made to cater to a bunch of dumb VN readers with nonsensical expectations. They are made to be accessible to the broader audience. Absolutely nothing about this movie makes sense to a newbie or someone who already doesn't know what UBW is about. Shirou's win makes no sense, neither do his feelings or conflict with Archer. Ufotable version makes it all make sense. Which is what a narrative has to do.
@@tiaaaron3278" broader audience" ? Lol ok mr opend minded i loved the vn but dont like the ufo anime i dont even know why they remade the ubw route they should have done an anime of HF first insted UBW . Repeating the same shit with some missing details in UBW is more like a waste of time they should have done that later for your " Broader Audience" .
I know, clash of ideals, past and future self, and it's actually kinda tragic when you think about it but I cant help but chuckle at the sight of Saber's "WTF" face =)
The best part about the character of shiro emeya is that from this fight on he knows what his outcome is and the process of him becoming archer is guaranteed but even so he continues on knowing that one day it will be his turn to ingnite the next version of himself
Actually UBW Shirou breaks the cycle, well kind of. He doesn't wind up as the Archer we see as his starting point is much higher then Shirou that became Archer, Also this Shirou manages to prevent that catastrophe in their timeline meaning that the events that pushed him into becoming the hero of the grail don't occur.
And yet it still doesn't do the VN justice. Without the inner monologues you don't even understand just how desperate this fight was for Shirou. Nor do you see just how severe his injuries actually were. Dude was seriously on the verge of death when he started turning the tables. Archer figured Shirou would keel over dead after two or three more attacks, but he retracted that assumption after Shirou's tenth strike. Shirou was just lucky. Couldn't even see anything anymore and had no idea if his strikes were even connecting or not. Also Archer's words were cutting way, way deeper than his swords. Shirou's mind was on the verge of surrendering multiple times, it was his body that was refusing to surrender. Seriously, as good as this battle may have seemed to anime only fans, it doesn't compare to the original. You just don't get a sense for how desperate this battle was.
I don't like being the nay-sayer but I think Deen did this fight way better than ufotable... The fight here wasn't interrupted by sudden cuts to a different scene (for that final clash at least), the two actually clashed properly for that final clash rather than a sudden power-up), there was an intensity to this fight and it shows that these two really could not accept each other up to the final moment. Though this scene isn't without its problems (Shirou being equal to Archer at the final clash, the shouting by Shirou making him into any idiot generic protagonist, the Answer of Shirou not being well-conveyed due to said shouting(at least ufo kinda tried to do that in the previous episode)). I just pray that the final fight will be awesome to look at the very least.
Isaac Loo i feel like deen made better use of the emiya theme personally. It makes the battle feel so intense and awesome, but ufotable only uses it for like 30 seconds at a time. Animation wise though.........ufotable is absolutely amazing, and id rather watch ufotables version over this any day.
tastynuggets21 That's why I said that Deen had flaws (though I should've said BIG flaws that make it the inferior adaptation). As a moment in a story though, it had more impact and emotion (while missing the message of the scene in the first place). That's one reason why I preferred Deen's scene over ufo's (I think it would've been good for ufotable to do what Deen did here but fixing the mistakes Deen did (episode 20 seemed to do so and it made me excited for episode 21, which the latter, I felt, was mediocre))
Isaac Loo Actually I love how Shirou shouting during this fight. It's make the fight far more epic. Shirou is very motivated, his word seem far mor powerful than into ufo or VN version
+tastynuggets21 but at least in the VN they do both fighting and talking to each other while in the anime version they fight then stop and sit down slipping a cup a tea then fight again etc...
I'm saying this in behalf of Cu's defense, the way he can get to the room is by the stairs. There are 2 balcony separated from it, and archer was blocking the way by being there
if only we could get a fusion of this version and the ufotable version . . . the dialogue here flows a bit better and the swords hit harder, its much more intense but its rushed and i can feel it, the fight in UBW is way too short and there isn't that "declick" moment where you can see archer face with his flashback also i prefer the UFO version of archer speech, where he locks shirou's blades and barate him while they are back to back and of course shirou clearing the reality marble as he run for one last hit
Nah you're not wrong imo, I like this scene way better than Ufotable version, Ufotable dragged it way too long. Deen might even have done way better if they got more time to adapt it but sadly they only got a movie length.
The fight itself is probably better, like the choreography and the frantic speed of it. But I think ufotable got the actual clash of ideals done better than deen, and to me that’s what really matters about this fight
I also prefer deen's version over Ufotable's for this fight scene simply because Ufotable's fight scene lack the intensity and extended the fight way too long due to having the need to explain both Archer and Shirou's clash of ideology. But that's only because Ufotable is trying to be faithful to the original visual novel but it's really hard you know, trying to have both intensity and having to show the clash of ideology in one animated scene.
I liked Ufotable ver more. Because they showed that Shirou realizing that his ideals are flawed at first and his spirit was beaten. they also did a better job at convincing me that Shirou will never think that his ideals are wrong, even if he goes through the same thing as Archer I liked Deen's action choreography more though
***** I am the bone of my excitement Hype is my body, and gasps are my blood I have shat over a thousand bricks Unknown to Satisfaction Nor known to Disappointment, Have withstood pain, to wait many months yet those eyes will never see anything So as I pray...
Steven Medrano I can see every one saying the same thing: "When could Shirou do this!? Bullshit! There's no way Archer could've lost to HIM! Plot armour much? Wah wah wah".:P
I think Archer and Shirou's conversation was actually better by DEEN than in Ufotable's version. While it was quick and to the point here (albeit a bit rushed due to the film being only an hour and a half long), Ufotable dragged it out for a whole episode, when it really wasn't a complex concept to understand. While I don't think that Ufotable's version needed to be *quite* as short, it really should have taken no more than five minutes to get through. I'm sure that the fight will be better, so we at least have that to look forward to.
Wow I love fate stay night I just recently finished the 2006 tv show in a couple days but the movie is so much better I mean shirou is my favorite character in anime but the movie put shirou in a whole new level one thing thing is clear in the movie Shirou is a badass.
none of the animes did a good job of accurately conveying shiros beliefs and decision making process but I think this scene is better than what they tried to do in the 2014 one.
I feel the same. Deen got a lot of the Shirou's intensity, emotion and struggle but missed out heavily on its context, by leaving out his monologues. Ufo somewhat got Shirou's point across but still left out a number of crucial monologues as well as the intensity and emotion behind it. It's better summarized the Ufo approached this fight through a melancholic exposition, rather than two people having a clash of ideals.
@@DeeonleeCobb373 Deen actually did more Shirou monologues. Ufo tried too hard at 'show dont tell' and failed to understand this is Shirou's story, told from his PoV.
I don't actually think this is better than the ufo version, but ONLY due to the time constraints. This scene is pretty good for what it is. I would've loved to see what they did with an extra 5-15 minutes. Perhaps make the hesitation more clear like in the vn/ufotable?
In my opinion Shirou's viewpoint feels right during the course of this fight, because it's the kind of passionate dreamer/idealist perspective that's easy to get all passionate about in a short-term sense, but Archer's viewpoint is tempered by the bitterness of real experience. The chant shown here in its original Japanese makes a whole lot more sense than the English version which is kind of a bunch of words strung together, and taken as a whole seems to capture an idea that Archer fought a lot during his life and experienced a lot of victories, but he was always alone and never understood by anyone. Which really ties in with his backstory. And at the end, we're reminded that Gilgamesh is a giant jackass because he just casually comes along and with his unmatchable power he just flings a huge volley of swords at Shirou and Archer, where Archer has to sacrifice himself so Shirou doesn't die.
Main reason i'd vote deen over Ufo in this scene would be mostly the way the fight panned out it had more oomph to it and overall i felt like the emotion that went into the scene was done better cause in ufo it was raised and dropped so many times while deen slowly escalated (Also for some reason i cant stand ufo sound effects especially for the swords clashing and breaking it feels so hollow to it)
***** depends how you look at it. The whole point of this "fight" was for them to clash their views in hopes of convincing the other. Deen choreographed it better yeah and if you are more interested in just the action, Deen does better choreography-wise. However, after watching this again after Ufos vers. The whole point of it felt overly rushed and became more about showing off animation rather than giving every detail of each ones thoughts, and the fact that they awkwardly made shirou the winner of an actual fight when reality archer beats him to a pulp and decides to let him win because he accepted his views and was moved by his constant perserverance. In which case Ufo vers. did that justice. I can both versions have their charm. Ufo still had better animation and the fight brought more than just constant sword swinging with archer actually launching projectiles. I do agree however that the constant pauses were a pain. The dialogue is fine but they could have kept the flow of choreography going. Deen had that done alright (cant deny that deep talks plus how the fight was choreographed looked kinda awkward) and kept it short, but it really rushed to the point where i felt little from what the whole point of it was storywise and i was just fixated on animation
It's clear they did their best to give ubw a good adaptation, but they were only given a 1,5-hour movie to do so. Of course it would end up messy. It's a shame...
I'll probablly get hell for this but I liked this version alot better than the ufo one.This is probablly one of the only scenes that i think deen did better. I guess ufo had to extend and draw out this scene for the show but I really like the pacing of this battle alot more.
Darius The Great That's the advantage to pacing of a visual novel. You dont have to worry about pacing such much as a syndicated TV show cause your going at the readers pace
Darius The Great True, but not anywhere as much as something that would have to be strictly managed on a time limit of course, 24 minutes every episode
Darius The Great This is the heart and soul of UBW though. Yes, they probably made it a tiny bit longer than it should have been but the fact that they put a lot of emphasis on it is a good thing.
The Maestro I just preferred how they were discussing ideals while fighting and it wasn't just pause talk pause talk.Also I think the utilization of the emiya theme was alot better in this movie.
I see. Studio Deen has much more potential than Ufotable. Shivers from every blow of the sword. The Ufotable's version is literally cringe especially this battle
not really,archer is shirou from an alternate route of fate,things were pretty similar to fate route but archer as shirou never fall in love with saber and the archer rin summoned was not Heroic Spirit EMIYA
Why are you reciting the basic plot to me(and you are incorrect, the Spirit Tosaka summoned was also Archer, that Shirou was just not aware of that, it is an infinite cycle of events happening in infinite multiverses) I am saying that Archer during UBW is symbolically looked at as the manifestation of Shirou's heroic sentiments. in the VN, it is fully explained that Shirou is fighting against the implication that his journey's natural conclusion is Archer, he's attempting to avoid the pitfall that is him while still trying to stay on that journey. Archer Emiya is Shirou, but as he is merely a shadow of the Emiya on the throne of heroes, he does not consider himself Shirou, just a shadow of Shirou who became what he had desperately wanted to be, and found no meaning in it.
emiya is not a proper heroic spirit,he is not a part of heroic spirit emiya,as a counter guardian he is still shirou himself and so he is as an archer,
That's a poor interpretation of it. There's no proper "Heroic Spirit EMIYA" because he never became legendary. He was inducted into the Counter Guardian due to a deal with the World. There's no if's or but's here. The entire dialogue where he talks as if he's not Shirou is merely a way to detach himself fromhis past life. As a Counter Guardian the way he "remembers" is by retrieving the information that "the world" stores, which he describes as akin to reading a book. To him, the life of Emiya Shirou is akin to a story, a fleeting fairy tale that serves as the prologue for the eternity of murder and betrayal that he endured as a "slave" of the Counter Force. Heck, he even mentioned how he no longer "remembers his life" which is flat out proven false by the fact Shirou and Tohsaka both see dreams of his memories describing the heroic feats he did as an anonymous warrior and even mentioning how he had a lover and close friends. So he remembers more that he cares to admit.
How is Shirou able to stand up to archer? I've only come to the conclusion that Archer is guiding Shirou to the right path so is fighting weaker on purpose, or that Archer is really weak since he has no master.
archer let him win. but shirou was getting stronger with each swing. he doesnt just make copies of swords, he recreates their legacy. Shirou was reliving archer's life when he was learning how to use the swords with each clash. Which is why you see archer's swords breaking near the end. It's also the reason he was able to witness archer on that mountain of swords
He pretty much accepted defeat not because of the exchange of blows (shirou was done at the end, just retreating a bit would've been enough for Archer to win, but he simply couldn't bother himself to do it) but because Shirou's adamant belief in his ideals made him remember why he became a hero in the first place and that stopped his own regret, even a bit. You could say it was a moral victory, Shirou's determination was the one to save the day.
I'm not gonna lie... Ufotable did the dialogue way better. Their entire exchange had weight in their adaption, while in DEEN's most of the exchanges fell flat.
In the vn shirou was nearly dead on his feet here. But they show him to be energetic AF. If there weren't a few cringe animations in this scene I would like it better than ubw. But it is what it is.
***** dude.. saber was fighting berserker like 10 minutes into the movie it took ufotable like two one hour episodes and 2 normal ones to reach that fight this movie missed sooo much
DifferentFight I really hope they utilize the emiya theme a bit more in these next few episodes. I felt like it just wasnt played enough during the first part of the battle.
xendingalot Exactly. EMIYA is a track signifying resolve, played throughout the VN whenever he overcame himself to do something truly amazing. Hilariously, in the anime, they played it when he was getting his ass kicked by Archer.
Apatthetic Man 2 more. The episode is called Answer, but Answer will actually be split between eps 20 and 21. This week is an infodump and Lancer being a bro.
Ruri Gokou I just saw the episode, it was only a bit. But i have high hopes for it! Shirou doesn't seem like he will be a loud idiot like he was here. Can't wait untill next week!
Jake Xero For me this fight scene is better than the ufotable version. True, it indeed gave me the goose bumps when avalon healed shirous wounds but still the fight was lacking.
Isn’t Guardian Emiya trapped outside of time? Even if he changes the past (kills his child self) he as a guardian would still exist as he is unaffected by anything that happens? Meaning killing Child Emiya would only be to create a new timeline where he never suffered all that pain and torment because he died before he had to? Or am I reading the rules of magic wrong?
Actually you’re pretty spot on. No matter what happens, Counter Guardian will forever be deployed by the World for him to clean up. But what if by not killing your past self but make him into a hero with a person by your side and learn from your mistakes you’ll make in the future? That’s what the UBW route is for. True end and Normal end of UBW Shirou will never become Archer but Guardian Emiya will still suffer sadly
Does anyone think that maybe the Shirou that became EMIYA was necessary? Like every iteration of Shirou Emiya needs to meet EMIYA to see what not to become.
So, taking into account that Archer is the spirit of Shirou's ideals, does that mean we could potentially see former grail war masters as heroic spirits? I'm just imagining how awesome it would be to have Kiritsugu in the Archer or Assassin class.
JCAPER24 I think people dont realize that Gil is essentially the strongest servant. Archer(and by extension Shirou), just have the best tools to take advantage of his weak spots, and even then they will only get lucky. Arturia needed Avalon to win against Gil in the Fate route, and it was only because of her super human reflexes that she could even dodge his sword spam without turning into swiss cheese, only her advanced sword fighting skills that she was able to put him in a position where he could not retaliate for even a second. And Sakura speaks for herself. Basically, it takes super special circumstances for anyone to even last a decent amount of time against Gil. I'm surprised Lancer held out for 24 hours because he got offed.
I think UFO did it better. I'd say they had to drag it out like that because of the huge as fuck gap between archer and shirou in terms of power and skill. Shirou would have died alot sooner if the fight was paced like the movie version (straight out brawl)
after watching the anime and now seeing these movie clips.. holy freaking shit.. the shirou in the movie was sooo fucking strong archer didn't even have to hold back or anything. In the anime archer just let his weak ass win. I like the shirou in the movie a lot better because he's a lot more dependable and talks less shit. Though the anime did too good of a job portraying him as an almost useless amateur who's only victory was only because he had borrowed mana fighting an idiot ( yes Gilgamesh is insanely strong but had he had a brain to actually fucking train his swordsmanship no one would beat him instead he just stands back and throws weapons at people but once someone get's close enough to him he loses for sucking at close combat and get's beaten by the weakest second character (shinji being the weakest ) )
+Josh Garbo Yeah they made shirou looks so strong in the movie which was bullshit when he was deflecting all the swords in UBW on their first fight inside the UBW. But it was very fun to watch lol
What I'm not getting is how Archer didn't already know the fight would end this way since he's future Shirou. Like wouldn't he remember, "Oh yeah my future self tried to kill me when I was in the Grail War"
His Grail war was different from any of the other routes. Nobody knows exactly how that played out. People speculate that during Archer's Holy Grail War another Archer other than him was summoned (there are entities in the Nasuverse such as Gaia and Alaya which are in the lookout for possible anomalies, and Archer being summoned during his "official" Holy Grail timeline and trying to kill himself would result in an anomaly. In other words, Archer may kill Shirou as much as he wants, he won't disappear because he's not bound by time AND he cannot be summoned to the timeline which created him. This timeline is not the one who created him, so killing or not killing Shirou ends up the same.)
It's also worth pointing out that Archer is not strictly speaking Shirou. Though they focus on the ideals more than anything there are several lines Archer drops that suggests he didn't grow up in the same environment Shirou did. That he wasn't supported by others and reached his realistic/cynical (depending on how you want to view it) ideology very early on, perhaps even before or at the same age Shirou is at now. Short and sloppy version is we're dealing with alternate dimensions, the VN explains this in much more eloquent detail than I can in a short UA-cam comment but that's the gist of it. They're the same person person, but they aren't necessarily they same personality; nurture vs nature and all that.
Archer could be the Emiya in the Fate route who made his ideals a reality. The Archer in the Fate route is still Emiya but he was injured by Saber early on and didn't do much. I'm not sure if it's ever explicitly stated in the VN but that's my guess since you have to read Fate in order to enter UBW properly.
i remember a song being sung by a girl when emiya was fighting archer in episode 20 near the end of the episode. can anyone tell me the name? and no its not the emiya theme
Unfortunately, Ufotable is leaning too much towards "visually epic" in their depiction of fights. I hope they won't omit the "clash of ideals" aspect of this fight, and somehow fit in Shirou's inner answer (well, they could maybe made him say it)
***** For me, that whole "clash of ideals" was too meta and nonsensical for me to even care about what they were fighting over. The first few fights were about visually epic shit anyways. Every other part of the show UFOtable has done has been pretty faithful and portrayed well, so I doubt they omit or botch that aspect, however asinine it may seem. They did pretty well with the exact same themes in Fate/Zero, so there's no reason to think they won't be able to do it here.
![Fate/Stay Night [UBW] - Emiya Paradox](/img/n.gif)
shirou STOP HITTING YOURSELF
+naruto uzumaki (avik das) Ok, that comment made my day.
Even more than the battle, the clash of two ideals is what makes this beautiful.
You good sir, get a cookie
Make that two cookies.
Faust Alexander that's the idea of the battle to begin with
and yet in the recent ep you see comments like "omg archer could have finshed this fight in 1 second. why are they giving shirou so much plot armor?" faith in humanity = loss, i understand how you feel archer.
xendingalot It also partially has to do with Fate sitting in an odd place in the genre department. You could call it Shonen but that is if you only came to Fate for the action, which while awesome is short and not the point Fate is trying to get across.
You could call it Seinen but there is still this slight immature feeling to it being Nasu's second game published as well as having high school protagonists which unfortunately makes people think high school=Shonen or not deep which is complete bull considering series like Oregairu and of course Fate.
the harshest judge is always yourself. emiya shirou: cheerful, lighthearted, determined, distorted. counter guardian emiya: disillusioned, distant, tempered, selfloathing.
Gilgamesh: entertained, overpowered, trigger happy
SOOOOO! very true. but such is a king no?
One Bell You missed out douche bag.
allthatishere Gilgamesh is a douche bag. I don't know how much simpler I could've made that.
allthatishere Read my comment and it makes much more sense.
Say whatever you want about this version of unlimited blade works but you still have to admit that this version of Shirou vs Archer is so epic.
It wasn't.
@@GeorgeMonetit is tho, you probably don't get what's going on
@@Maninredcapethis and the Gilgamesh fight are the redeeming parts of this version
They just want visual spectacle.
While this fight is a fight of their ideals
@@cruxsaveall9706the VN is still better. This fight scratched the surface but the ufotable one didn't even try.
Saber is just gawking like "w8 shirou could do that?"
I'm supposed to be the swordswoman here!
She’s thinking about how the archer class is really made up of archers
@@carlweeper7436 Just Because Your CORRECT Doesn't Mean Your RIGHT ⚔️
Archer class have unlimited blades and 1 arrow :x
When Archer said: "That's exactly the mistake I made!"
and Shirou replied: "There's no way it's a mistake!"
I got this impression of that the producers thought this would probably be the main discussion for Shirou of a Lifetime when he marries or gets Tohsaka pregnant.
Lol...this comment is priceless XD
Heavens feel Shirou: You two are wrong... Sakura is surfering even in your routes, and you two are figthing for shitty reasons... 😭
Fate and UBW Shirou: What in the hell is this guy saying?
Archer: What in the hell is Sakura? I couldn't remember her anymore.
Shinji: hehe, Emiya is losing his time with his ideals, nice time to play with Sakura.
Fate/UBW Sakura: Sempai 😭
Fate/UBW Zouken: hehe, looks like Sakura is enjoying the worms inside her, but Gilgamesh is too dangerous, i'll wait for another route.
@@angelcortes3485this comment made me giggle 🤭
Anyone else think Archer let himself be stabbed? Like, he realized that Shirou's ideals were only strengthened? Because he could have easily projected Rho Aias...
Shirou was able to fight that good against Archer because he was absorbing his knowledge, something only possible when the same human being is in front of you. But at the end, the same happened to Archer, he became to absorb Shirou's knowledge and he saw that night Kiritsugu died... "If you can't be one, I'll become one for you...! Just leave your dream to me." When Archer remembered that, he come to the conclusion that even if it's hypocritical, it's a beautiful dream, and had to give up.
Super late answer but in the VN it is clearly described how he stopped himself from slashing Shirou because he couldn't help but be reminded of his past when he saw how much Shirou clinged to his ideal. The VN describes how Shirou was half-dead and his hands were bloodied and injured to the point you couldn't tell what part was his hand and what was the sword. And the image used in the VN showed Archer with his sword arm raised but he leaves it there as Shirou stabs him. So Archer could have killed SHirou, but instead chose to let Shirou's blow hit.
well his magic power already at the red zone at that moment.... and he use UBW and that cut his magic down more
and i think he actualy can kill shirou easy if he wanted to, long range snipe done... in this fight i got that feeling that he only just wanted to make sure if shirou will make the same mistake as he did before "the archer road" or find another that lead to brighter future
It is called plot armor you goddamned idiots
@@lild3838 did u not read the previous guy's comment, the anime is based off of the vn
4:19
Archer: A generic character bound by worthless conventions his whole life. Only flame lies ahead at the end of internet forums. Have you realized that's what you really are?
Shirou: Basta......
Archer: Are you sure you want to become a main character?!
Shirou: I don't want to become one! I will become one!
Archer: I thought so! Since that is the sole emotion you have!
Shirou: What did you say?!
Archer: You are simply in awe. It's only because that man looked so GAR in Fate/Zero that you wanted to become like him. You simply borrowed your ideals!
Shirou: You're wrong!
Archer: I was driven by the singular belief that I had to be a main character. Not realizing I was acting stereotypical, I kept running forward. The wish of wanting to be as popular as a main character out of Fairy Tail! If you can't live on without being a shounen hero, then drown in memes carrying it!
character from Fairy tail lol
LOL that's pure gold. :)
Seriously comparing any iteration of the Fate series to Fairy Tale shows you have no taste.
Obito Uchiha Its the fact that he compared it to Fairy Tail that has me laughing hysterically.
This needs way more likes, god I feel so much better now.
I've noticed the stark difference between those who've read the visual novel, and those who've watched the various anime adaptions. Visual Novel readers tend to really enjoy Shirou's character, while anime watchers do not.
Why is that? Because alot of Shirou's actions aren't easily understood unless you hear his thought process provided in text. I'll go to scenes of the anime on UA-cam and see fans comments completely misinterpret Shirou's intentions, often assuming he's being self righteous, arrogant, or completely ignorant. When in fact his actions are often a result of something more complex.
Perhaps his greatest motivator for many of his actions throughout the story is the following:
His immense survival guilt following the great fire. Shirou would think back to how he had left others to burn, as they begged for his help, and as a kid he abandoned them as he searched for a path to salvation from the hell he found himself in. After he was saved, he began to believe that he had no right to survive the tragedy, that those who died were far more deserving then him. This is where he started to put others before himself.
His survivor's guilt is so bad that he will not let himself enjoy various outings throughout the story. Like the outing with Rin and Saber, at one point, he realized he was actually enjoying himself. And as soon as he realized that, he mentally beat himself up, and told himself he had no right to feel happy there.
Another primary motivator: his connection with Archer. People think he's being arrogant and self righteous when it comes to Archer. In reality, Shirou was enraptured with Archer from the very beginning. And he always did notice their similarities, especially when others would make passing comments about it. This is where the resentment set in. Shirou already resented himself, so it was natural that it got directed to someone so like himself. What's worse, he sees his ideals, the ones he desperately clings to as his one reason to live, twisted beyond comprehension. All of that is hard to accept, so Shirou would act in a way that is "truly unlike him" as Saber puts it. And Shirou agreed with Saber. Archer brings out a side of Shirou that he never experienced before.
I could go on and on. Like Fate Route Shirou's view of Saber isn't "She's a woman that needs to be saved." He grows to truly understand her, through his visions, and sees she lived a tragic, yet honorable life. He didn't want her to regret her life, he wanted her to move on, find her own happiness, and to love herself. Which is ironic, because the same could be said of Shirou, because his future path to Archer is eerily similar to Saber's path to the Holy Grail.I've noticed the stark difference between those who've read the visual novel, and those who've watched the various anime adaptions. Visual Novel readers tend to really enjoy Shirou's character, while anime watchers do not.
Why is that? Because alot of Shirou's actions aren't easily understood unless you hear his thought process provided in text. I'll go to scenes of the anime on UA-cam and see fans comments completely misinterpret Shirou's intentions, often assuming he's being self righteous, arrogant, or completely ignorant. When in fact his actions are often a result of something more complex.
Perhaps his greatest motivator for many of his actions throughout the story is the following:
His immense survival guilt following the great fire. Shirou would think back to how he had left others to burn, as they begged for his help, and as a kid he abandoned them as he searched for a path to salvation from the hell he found himself in. After he was saved, he began to believe that he had no right to survive the tragedy, that those who died were far more deserving then him. This is where he started to put others before himself.
His survivor's guilt is so bad that he will not let himself enjoy various outings throughout the story. Like the outing with Rin and Saber, at one point, he realized he was actually enjoying himself. And as soon as he realized that, he mentally beat himself up, and told himself he had no right to feel happy there.
Another primary motivator: his connection with Archer. People think he's being arrogant and self righteous when it comes to Archer. In reality, Shirou was enraptured with Archer from the very beginning. And he always did notice their similarities, especially when others would make passing comments about it. This is where the resentment set in. Shirou already resented himself, so it was natural that it got directed to someone so like himself. What's worse, he sees his ideals, the ones he desperately clings to as his one reason to live, twisted beyond comprehension. All of that is hard to accept, so Shirou would act in a way that is "truly unlike him" as Saber puts it. And Shirou agreed with Saber. Archer brings out a side of Shirou that he never experienced before.
I could go on and on. Like Fate Route Shirou's view of Saber isn't "She's a woman that needs to be saved." He grows to truly understand her, through his visions, and sees she lived a tragic, yet honorable life. He didn't want her to regret her life, he wanted her to move on, find her own happiness, and to love herself. Which is ironic, because the same could be said of Shirou, because his future path to Archer is eerily similar to Saber's path to the Holy Grail.
Anime watchers are really accostumed to cardboard MC's that are just there to tell a story, and judge Shirou under these standards. They are the same that value more the HGW aspect of the story over the concept and character exploration aspect.
This is why F/Z is better regarded by anime only's, as it is a better plot driven story, centers more about the HGW than about the characters that are part of it, and doesnt focus entirely on one and his/her perspective. F/SN loses a ton of depth once you remove the inner monologues, specially Shirou's, making the watcher omniscient of the events but not the character's thought processes.
couldn't have said it better.
Ugh, so pretentious
@@Theblacksaiyan92 how exactly
@@ruiK774 he thinks caprikiwi cant understand shirou just because he watched the anime only, therefore liking him is pretentious.
Archer's body was made of swords till the very end. A very tragic, ironic, and fitting "end" for him.
+ebere213 I'm stupid, I never saw it that way. That's so dramatic and ironic...
+* AkaTsubasa * lol I think about these sort of things a lot. But in the fate stay night universe what your affinity, in this case Shirou and Archer is swords, it's what creates your in life and also what ends your life. In this case, swords are what gave them life, and what will kill them, as Archer decided to act as a sword to protect Shirou
ebere213 Yeah yeah I get it. Is there others refrences like that in the Fate universe? Nice job finding it anyway! ;)
+* AkaTsubasa * None of prominent as Shirou and Archer.
If you care, feel free to check it out: typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Elements
It feels like this fight was much more intense than the 2015 version, however the 2015 fight had much more backstory going into Emiya's change into becoming Archer. Even though his ideals were not his own, they were still ideals *someone* had to take hold of, which is why I approve of them myself. If you have an ideal, never let it go, if you do and someone else is willing to take it up on your behalf, those are still ideals to hold onto, despite them not being your own. It's why we have a Will when we die. It's our ideals which are passed down to the next generation.
+ExplosivePeeps I feel like Deen had the right idea, but not the length to execute it well while Ufotable had the length but squandered most of it with needless repetition and a lack of clash and impact. It sucks that one of the most important scene of F/SN will forever lack the proper portrayal that it deserves...
+The Maestro i agree
+ExplosivePeeps That's why I don't like the fight of archer and shirou made by ufortable. Rather than implying the whole emotional things in a subtle way, Archer and shirou basically just talked through the whole backstory in 2015 ver.
The whole emotional struggle was supposed to be complex and feel by ourselves, and now someone is actually using few sentences describing that complex emotion of archer. Not saying it isn't good, I just don't like it.
Edward
I agree. In this ver, when they are fighting, you can actually feel Archer's frustration about Shirou not understanding, and Shirou's desperation to deny that Archer is the result of his ideal.
In the new one, its just them basically reiterating the same point over and over again over a period of 3 episodes through long winded monologues and flashback sequences. Looked mighty pretty though
+MrInuhanyou123 Indeed, it just like someone draw a shape, and you have to guess what this shape is. And ufortable basically said "This is an apple". And now everyone think this is an apple. We don't even need to think about it. And the answer is simplified, that shape is more than an apple.
I think this version is so much better than the remake. The sword clashing is so much better looking and the fight sequence is top notch.
I would say the remake is better in term of emotion
I was in awe of how heavy each sword clash felt when I first watched the movie (I watched the Ufotable Anime before this, for reference).
The sole redeeming scene of the movie. Animation and emotion is better in ufotable's rendition, but there's no denying the intensity you can achieve in less than ten minutes.
2:46 this is what lacks in ufotable fights often, the feel of a western standoff
deen's version of Archer's UBW is much more intense than Ufotable. Because it really looks like a forging place for swords..
But they fail at shirou's UBW
@@kevinnathanielesquibel9143
Ufo also failed at Archer's UBW tho... Projecting swords rather than launching them from the ground WHILE INSIDE UBW.
UFO - Emiya’s UBW
Deen- Arche’s UBW
Tbh my favourite ubw is the ubw from Oath Under Snow, also can cast projection inside UBW and it costs 1/10th of what they should due to the weapons already existing inside the marble somewhrre
Emiya doesn't create weapons, he just pulls them from the ubw, I think
This is a way better fight than UFO version, but I liked the Kiritsugu flashbacks in UFO, it gave feels. They should mix the two. Feels + Badassarey = masterpiece
+kavi ahmed the VN is the masterpiece, the movie is the fighting while the anime is for the emotional battle
"They should mix the two"
Thats kinda what the VN does
I still prefer this fight over the new one , the anime just felt like they were talking , but in this movie you can feel the intensity of both characters
You can't be serious or you just prefer action over substance. Shirou just went and beat Archer in this with no logic. In the VN and also the anime, he actually changed Archer's mind and opinion. He didn't beat Archer in battle but in ideals.
@@tiaaaron3278 thats the thing you cant put a novel into an anime , if you see a movie the spectator need to see a movie not a damn light novel talking about ideals debate instead of fight for who is right . An anime needs improvisation not like the shitty ufotable that copy paste only the novel.
@@tiaaaron3278 look at HF part 3 they tried so hard to out a novel into a movie and what happened it was rushed , even mire rushed then this movie kirei vs shirou fight was less then a minute and the ending was a worst mess
@@ozysalt4831 Do you realise how silly that sounds?! The adaptations aren't made to cater to a bunch of dumb VN readers with nonsensical expectations. They are made to be accessible to the broader audience. Absolutely nothing about this movie makes sense to a newbie or someone who already doesn't know what UBW is about. Shirou's win makes no sense, neither do his feelings or conflict with Archer.
Ufotable version makes it all make sense. Which is what a narrative has to do.
@@tiaaaron3278" broader audience" ? Lol ok mr opend minded i loved the vn but dont like the ufo anime i dont even know why they remade the ubw route they should have done an anime of HF first insted UBW . Repeating the same shit with some missing details in UBW is more like a waste of time they should have done that later for your " Broader Audience" .
This is the sole redeeming scene in the Studio DEEN UBW movie.
Yeah it's actually really well done.
I know, clash of ideals, past and future self, and it's actually kinda tragic when you think about it but I cant help but chuckle at the sight of Saber's "WTF" face =)
epicness overload stealing her thunder.
She is probably disapointed how bad they are at swordsmanship
They just out there swinging wildest with emotions consuming them @@lilestojkovicii6618
Kanshou is perfectly fine
Also Kanshou: Why did you throw me away?
Shirou: I need two hand to use a one-handed sword.
Lmaoo xD
Well in bleach zaraki used 2 hands to use one handed sword to make stronger strike. Maybe it's same here.
This was probably my favorite part in the 2010 movie.
+Imma Xehanort mine too
Same
I like this fight more than ufo's
The best part about the character of shiro emeya is that from this fight on he knows what his outcome is and the process of him becoming archer is guaranteed but even so he continues on knowing that one day it will be his turn to ingnite the next version of himself
Actually UBW Shirou breaks the cycle, well kind of. He doesn't wind up as the Archer we see as his starting point is much higher then Shirou that became Archer, Also this Shirou manages to prevent that catastrophe in their timeline meaning that the events that pushed him into becoming the hero of the grail don't occur.
None of Shirou's from main three routes become Archer
Fucking animation dude not even the 2019 animes are at this level and the story is really good too
Then you never watch master of ragnarok
And by the way it is pretty decent animation when you compare it to other anime in that same year
Because it's a movie
And yet it still doesn't do the VN justice. Without the inner monologues you don't even understand just how desperate this fight was for Shirou. Nor do you see just how severe his injuries actually were. Dude was seriously on the verge of death when he started turning the tables. Archer figured Shirou would keel over dead after two or three more attacks, but he retracted that assumption after Shirou's tenth strike. Shirou was just lucky. Couldn't even see anything anymore and had no idea if his strikes were even connecting or not. Also Archer's words were cutting way, way deeper than his swords. Shirou's mind was on the verge of surrendering multiple times, it was his body that was refusing to surrender. Seriously, as good as this battle may have seemed to anime only fans, it doesn't compare to the original. You just don't get a sense for how desperate this battle was.
@@andrewmiller5126 UBW did it better thi.
The fight choreography was top tier
I don't like being the nay-sayer but I think Deen did this fight way better than ufotable... The fight here wasn't interrupted by sudden cuts to a different scene (for that final clash at least), the two actually clashed properly for that final clash rather than a sudden power-up), there was an intensity to this fight and it shows that these two really could not accept each other up to the final moment.
Though this scene isn't without its problems (Shirou being equal to Archer at the final clash, the shouting by Shirou making him into any idiot generic protagonist, the Answer of Shirou not being well-conveyed due to said shouting(at least ufo kinda tried to do that in the previous episode)).
I just pray that the final fight will be awesome to look at the very least.
Isaac Loo i feel like deen made better use of the emiya theme personally. It makes the battle feel so intense and awesome, but ufotable only uses it for like 30 seconds at a time. Animation wise though.........ufotable is absolutely amazing, and id rather watch ufotables version over this any day.
tastynuggets21 That's why I said that Deen had flaws (though I should've said BIG flaws that make it the inferior adaptation). As a moment in a story though, it had more impact and emotion (while missing the message of the scene in the first place). That's one reason why I preferred Deen's scene over ufo's (I think it would've been good for ufotable to do what Deen did here but fixing the mistakes Deen did (episode 20 seemed to do so and it made me excited for episode 21, which the latter, I felt, was mediocre))
Isaac Loo
Actually I love how Shirou shouting during this fight. It's make the fight far more epic. Shirou is very motivated, his word seem far mor powerful than into ufo or VN version
Gil fight was beautiful. One of the best ones in the series. The movie vers. Of that fight hardly compares.
+tastynuggets21 but at least in the VN they do both fighting and talking to each other while in the anime version they fight then stop and sit down slipping a cup a tea then fight again etc...
This is better than ufortable's shirou vs archer.
Cú: *gallantly "I'll save her"
Also Cú: *Parkour
I'm saying this in behalf of Cu's defense, the way he can get to the room is by the stairs. There are 2 balcony separated from it, and archer was blocking the way by being there
CÚ :))
if only we could get a fusion of this version and the ufotable version . . .
the dialogue here flows a bit better and the swords hit harder, its much more intense
but its rushed and i can feel it, the fight in UBW is way too short and there isn't that "declick" moment where you can see archer face with his flashback
also i prefer the UFO version of archer speech, where he locks shirou's blades and barate him while they are back to back
and of course shirou clearing the reality marble as he run for one last hit
I saw a spider, so I tried to nuke it.
It survived so I showed how stupid its dream is
This continued, I got stabbed.
Yall know this is the og fate right look at the artwork
I know i'll be attacked for this, but i think this fight is better than Ufo's UBW.
Nah you're not wrong imo, I like this scene way better than Ufotable version, Ufotable dragged it way too long. Deen might even have done way better if they got more time to adapt it but sadly they only got a movie length.
Your opinion is perfectly valid, Deen's Version is actually closer to the VN, they didn't fight entirely in UBW, I think both versions are good.
The fight itself is probably better, like the choreography and the frantic speed of it. But I think ufotable got the actual clash of ideals done better than deen, and to me that’s what really matters about this fight
I also prefer deen's version over Ufotable's for this fight scene simply because Ufotable's fight scene lack the intensity and extended the fight way too long due to having the need to explain both Archer and Shirou's clash of ideology. But that's only because Ufotable is trying to be faithful to the original visual novel but it's really hard you know, trying to have both intensity and having to show the clash of ideology in one animated scene.
I liked Ufotable ver more. Because they showed that Shirou realizing that his ideals are flawed at first and his spirit was beaten. they also did a better job at convincing me that Shirou will never think that his ideals are wrong, even if he goes through the same thing as Archer
I liked Deen's action choreography more though
Everyone is gonna shit a brick when this happens in the anime and he shows his noble phantasm
Lol
***** I am the bone of my excitement
Hype is my body, and gasps are my blood
I have shat over a thousand bricks
Unknown to Satisfaction
Nor known to Disappointment,
Have withstood pain, to wait many months
yet those eyes will never see anything
So as I pray...
10/10 like if you cry every time
***** One Bell
UNLIMITED BRICK WORKS
Steven Medrano I can see every one saying the same thing: "When could Shirou do this!? Bullshit! There's no way Archer could've lost to HIM! Plot armour much? Wah wah wah".:P
I love how baeber is standing in the background like "What the fuck is going on?"
This is clean
The only one thing what looks better then Ufotable version
Saber: Sasuga my Queen.
I think Archer and Shirou's conversation was actually better by DEEN than in Ufotable's version. While it was quick and to the point here (albeit a bit rushed due to the film being only an hour and a half long), Ufotable dragged it out for a whole episode, when it really wasn't a complex concept to understand.
While I don't think that Ufotable's version needed to be *quite* as short, it really should have taken no more than five minutes to get through. I'm sure that the fight will be better, so we at least have that to look forward to.
InceptionOfPhazon G That's true...
Toa Axis I agree. In this version, we actually Archer’s true name revealed instead of it being implied like in Ufotable version.
Nigga the fight in the novel was 40 minutes.
>5 minutes to get through
Lol no. The fight should be atleast 20 minutes in length.
@@archienemy You haven't watched any of UBW anime
Wow I love fate stay night I just recently finished the 2006 tv show in a couple days but the movie is so much better I mean shirou is my favorite character in anime but the movie put shirou in a whole new level one thing thing is clear in the movie Shirou is a badass.
Orion Martindale you should watch the 2014 remake
I did a few weeks ago its my favorite cant wait for season 2
Read the visual novel... That version of Shirou will leave you in orgasm.
Best of Deen
none of the animes did a good job of accurately conveying shiros beliefs and decision making process but I think this scene is better than what they tried to do in the 2014 one.
I feel the same.
Deen got a lot of the Shirou's intensity, emotion and struggle but missed out heavily on its context, by leaving out his monologues.
Ufo somewhat got Shirou's point across but still left out a number of crucial monologues as well as the intensity and emotion behind it.
It's better summarized the Ufo approached this fight through a melancholic exposition, rather than two people having a clash of ideals.
@@DeeonleeCobb373 This comment is so pretentious omg
@@DeeonleeCobb373 Deen actually did more Shirou monologues. Ufo tried too hard at 'show dont tell' and failed to understand this is Shirou's story, told from his PoV.
Ubw emiya vs archer. So many memories 💗💗😎😎
so does killing your past/future self considered murder or suicide?
Suicide is murder in this case.
Murder...
Zander Gamer suiciding murder XD ?
Shiro Alex The fact that the person is you in the future doesn't mean it's suicide, so it's murder, that's all
guess so sorry,,,,
saber dont know who to cheer on
its a shame that they don't have this fight anymore in 2015 version :/
I don't actually think this is better than the ufo version, but ONLY due to the time constraints. This scene is pretty good for what it is. I would've loved to see what they did with an extra 5-15 minutes. Perhaps make the hesitation more clear like in the vn/ufotable?
In my opinion Shirou's viewpoint feels right during the course of this fight, because it's the kind of passionate dreamer/idealist perspective that's easy to get all passionate about in a short-term sense, but Archer's viewpoint is tempered by the bitterness of real experience.
The chant shown here in its original Japanese makes a whole lot more sense than the English version which is kind of a bunch of words strung together, and taken as a whole seems to capture an idea that Archer fought a lot during his life and experienced a lot of victories, but he was always alone and never understood by anyone. Which really ties in with his backstory.
And at the end, we're reminded that Gilgamesh is a giant jackass because he just casually comes along and with his unmatchable power he just flings a huge volley of swords at Shirou and Archer, where Archer has to sacrifice himself so Shirou doesn't die.
Main reason i'd vote deen over Ufo in this scene would be mostly the way the fight panned out it had more oomph to it and overall i felt like the emotion that went into the scene was done better cause in ufo it was raised and dropped so many times while deen slowly escalated
(Also for some reason i cant stand ufo sound effects especially for the swords clashing and breaking it feels so hollow to it)
2:25 the body language
A U T I S M
If you watch Ep.21 of ufotable you'll know that this is a lot more better..
Emiya VoiceActor *much better
Emiya VoiceActor Yeahhhhhh......no.
***** depends how you look at it. The whole point of this "fight" was for them to clash their views in hopes of convincing the other. Deen choreographed it better yeah and if you are more interested in just the action, Deen does better choreography-wise.
However, after watching this again after Ufos vers. The whole point of it felt overly rushed and became more about showing off animation rather than giving every detail of each ones thoughts, and the fact that they awkwardly made shirou the winner of an actual fight when reality archer beats him to a pulp and decides to let him win because he accepted his views and was moved by his constant perserverance. In which case Ufo vers. did that justice.
I can both versions have their charm. Ufo still had better animation and the fight brought more than just constant sword swinging with archer actually launching projectiles. I do agree however that the constant pauses were a pain. The dialogue is fine but they could have kept the flow of choreography going. Deen had that done alright (cant deny that deep talks plus how the fight was choreographed looked kinda awkward) and kept it short, but it really rushed to the point where i felt little from what the whole point of it was storywise and i was just fixated on animation
+Alter A the fighting is better in the movie version
Kevin Jimenez
Uhhh.... No it's not. I can barely make out Archer's and Shirou's movements in the movie. They're all over the place.
It's clear they did their best to give ubw a good adaptation, but they were only given a 1,5-hour movie to do so. Of course it would end up messy. It's a shame...
Even with a 6 hour trilogy, a route can end up wrong as far as adaptations go.
I'll probablly get hell for this but I liked this version alot better than the ufo one.This is probablly one of the only scenes that i think deen did better. I guess ufo had to extend and draw out this scene for the show but I really like the pacing of this battle alot more.
Darius The Great That's the advantage to pacing of a visual novel. You dont have to worry about pacing such much as a syndicated TV show cause your going at the readers pace
MrInuhanyou123 You would still need to pace even when writing a book though.In terms of writing down actions of the characters and such atleast.
Darius The Great True, but not anywhere as much as something that would have to be strictly managed on a time limit of course, 24 minutes every episode
Darius The Great This is the heart and soul of UBW though. Yes, they probably made it a tiny bit longer than it should have been but the fact that they put a lot of emphasis on it is a good thing.
The Maestro I just preferred how they were discussing ideals while fighting and it wasn't just pause talk pause talk.Also I think the utilization of the emiya theme was alot better in this movie.
I see. Studio Deen has much more potential than Ufotable. Shivers from every blow of the sword. The Ufotable's version is literally cringe especially this battle
ほんまDEEN版の作画神だわセイバーかわいい
脚本がなあ
they make it sound like archer is just the manifestation of shirou's ideals while he actually is shirou himself
he could be taken as both
not really,archer is shirou from an alternate route of fate,things were pretty similar to fate route but archer as shirou never fall in love with saber and the archer rin summoned was not Heroic Spirit EMIYA
Why are you reciting the basic plot to me(and you are incorrect, the Spirit Tosaka summoned was also Archer, that Shirou was just not aware of that, it is an infinite cycle of events happening in infinite multiverses)
I am saying that Archer during UBW is symbolically looked at as the manifestation of Shirou's heroic sentiments. in the VN, it is fully explained that Shirou is fighting against the implication that his journey's natural conclusion is Archer, he's attempting to avoid the pitfall that is him while still trying to stay on that journey.
Archer Emiya is Shirou, but as he is merely a shadow of the Emiya on the throne of heroes, he does not consider himself Shirou, just a shadow of Shirou who became what he had desperately wanted to be, and found no meaning in it.
emiya is not a proper heroic spirit,he is not a part of heroic spirit emiya,as a counter guardian he is still shirou himself and so he is as an archer,
That's a poor interpretation of it. There's no proper "Heroic Spirit EMIYA" because he never became legendary. He was inducted into the Counter Guardian due to a deal with the World. There's no if's or but's here. The entire dialogue where he talks as if he's not Shirou is merely a way to detach himself fromhis past life. As a Counter Guardian the way he "remembers" is by retrieving the information that "the world" stores, which he describes as akin to reading a book. To him, the life of Emiya Shirou is akin to a story, a fleeting fairy tale that serves as the prologue for the eternity of murder and betrayal that he endured as a "slave" of the Counter Force.
Heck, he even mentioned how he no longer "remembers his life" which is flat out proven false by the fact Shirou and Tohsaka both see dreams of his memories describing the heroic feats he did as an anonymous warrior and even mentioning how he had a lover and close friends. So he remembers more that he cares to admit.
I honestly prefer this to the Ufotable one
This strongly looks like the original series
so this is the first domain expansion
Reality marble to be exact
Good thing he stayed true to his ideals
*People die when they are killed*
..But apparently not kirei.
How is Shirou able to stand up to archer? I've only come to the conclusion that Archer is guiding Shirou to the right path so is fighting weaker on purpose, or that Archer is really weak since he has no master.
archer let him win. but shirou was getting stronger with each swing. he doesnt just make copies of swords, he recreates their legacy. Shirou was reliving archer's life when he was learning how to use the swords with each clash. Which is why you see archer's swords breaking near the end. It's also the reason he was able to witness archer on that mountain of swords
MochachiiinoWorks Not to mention Archer was low on magical energy.
dat too
He pretty much accepted defeat not because of the exchange of blows (shirou was done at the end, just retreating a bit would've been enough for Archer to win, but he simply couldn't bother himself to do it) but because Shirou's adamant belief in his ideals made him remember why he became a hero in the first place and that stopped his own regret, even a bit.
You could say it was a moral victory, Shirou's determination was the one to save the day.
It's because Shirou has unbreakable plot armor
I'm not gonna lie... Ufotable did the dialogue way better. Their entire exchange had weight in their adaption, while in DEEN's most of the exchanges fell flat.
+Quill but this version got the better fight
The episode dude?
In the vn shirou was nearly dead on his feet here. But they show him to be energetic AF. If there weren't a few cringe animations in this scene I would like it better than ubw. But it is what it is.
the movie may have sucked, but no one can deny that this battle is awesome
nobody would deny the battles are awesome, but you just do not stick a whole 15 hour route into 1 hour and 30 minutes, you just dont do it.
Movie was just as good as this fight to me.
***** movie was rushed as hell. The new tv series by Ufotable has a better pacing
Franco Centola its rushed becaus its a movie, but yeah, the series is nice
***** dude.. saber was fighting berserker like 10 minutes into the movie
it took ufotable like two one hour episodes and 2 normal ones to reach that fight
this movie missed sooo much
Clash of will between a boomer and a tiktoker
Looks like we still have to wait another week...
DifferentFight I really hope they utilize the emiya theme a bit more in these next few episodes. I felt like it just wasnt played enough during the first part of the battle.
they shouldn't have used it at all and just left it to play next ep. EMIYA is an hype track, should be used to longest segments and not short bursts.
xendingalot Exactly. EMIYA is a track signifying resolve, played throughout the VN whenever he overcame himself to do something truly amazing. Hilariously, in the anime, they played it when he was getting his ass kicked by Archer.
1 more week until Ufotable's rendition.
Apatthetic Man
2 more. The episode is called Answer, but Answer will actually be split between eps 20 and 21. This week is an infodump and Lancer being a bro.
Ruri Gokou I just saw the episode, it was only a bit. But i have high hopes for it! Shirou doesn't seem like he will be a loud idiot like he was here. Can't wait untill next week!
Feja2503
Shirou's not a loud idiot in general, this movie just made him sound like one.
Ruri Gokou split between 20 , 21 and 22......... wtf
Jake Xero For me this fight scene is better than the ufotable version. True, it indeed gave me the goose bumps when avalon healed shirous wounds but still the fight was lacking.
Isn’t Guardian Emiya trapped outside of time? Even if he changes the past (kills his child self) he as a guardian would still exist as he is unaffected by anything that happens? Meaning killing Child Emiya would only be to create a new timeline where he never suffered all that pain and torment because he died before he had to? Or am I reading the rules of magic wrong?
Actually you’re pretty spot on. No matter what happens, Counter Guardian will forever be deployed by the World for him to clean up. But what if by not killing your past self but make him into a hero with a person by your side and learn from your mistakes you’ll make in the future? That’s what the UBW route is for. True end and Normal end of UBW Shirou will never become Archer but Guardian Emiya will still suffer sadly
Nice
Deen did so much better than ufo's interpretation of this fight.
5:26 this was my face watching this shit.
Does anyone think that maybe the Shirou that became EMIYA was necessary? Like every iteration of Shirou Emiya needs to meet EMIYA to see what not to become.
Эмия Широ - Пустышка внутри, и ему ничего не остается как держаться своего Идеала всеми руками и зубами.
Is the version reanimated bcs this style looks a little old
*cue I Will Face Myself"
Archer same of aomine and aizawa
So, taking into account that Archer is the spirit of Shirou's ideals, does that mean we could potentially see former grail war masters as heroic spirits? I'm just imagining how awesome it would be to have Kiritsugu in the Archer or Assassin class.
Fnon No, because they probably never wished to be heroes at the time of their death. You have to make a contract with the world.
Fnon No, fuck your headcanon bullshit.
cotelo
A little more hostile than necessary.
JCAPER24
I think people dont realize that Gil is essentially the strongest servant. Archer(and by extension Shirou), just have the best tools to take advantage of his weak spots, and even then they will only get lucky.
Arturia needed Avalon to win against Gil in the Fate route, and it was only because of her super human reflexes that she could even dodge his sword spam without turning into swiss cheese, only her advanced sword fighting skills that she was able to put him in a position where he could not retaliate for even a second.
And Sakura speaks for herself.
Basically, it takes super special circumstances for anyone to even last a decent amount of time against Gil. I'm surprised Lancer held out for 24 hours because he got offed.
Shirou had some weird ass masochistic issues to work out.
I didn't even know there was a Deen version of UBW
they made a movie on it but it was slipped under the rug after type moon's version
you mean ufotable, type moon is the creator of the source material
Before UFO we have Deen
Too bad there's no Kanshou and Bakuya
What do you mean? Shirou and Emiya are using Kanshou and Bakuya at the middle to the end of the fight. Shirou even uses Bakuya to stab Emiya.
At 7:51 Archers wound, caused by shirous blade, suddenly vanished.
What are you talking about, the wound and Shirou’s Byakuya is still there.
I think UFO did it better. I'd say they had to drag it out like that because of the huge as fuck gap between archer and shirou in terms of power and skill. Shirou would have died alot sooner if the fight was paced like the movie version (straight out brawl)
after watching the anime and now seeing these movie clips.. holy freaking shit.. the shirou in the movie was sooo fucking strong archer didn't even have to hold back or anything. In the anime archer just let his weak ass win. I like the shirou in the movie a lot better because he's a lot more dependable and talks less shit. Though the anime did too good of a job portraying him as an almost useless amateur who's only victory was only because he had borrowed mana fighting an idiot ( yes Gilgamesh is insanely strong but had he had a brain to actually fucking train his swordsmanship no one would beat him instead he just stands back and throws weapons at people but once someone get's close enough to him he loses for sucking at close combat and get's beaten by the weakest second character (shinji being the weakest ) )
+Josh Garbo Yeah they made shirou looks so strong in the movie which was bullshit when he was deflecting all the swords in UBW on their first fight inside the UBW.
But it was very fun to watch lol
+Robz Sarmy i like the fight for shioru vs archer way better in the movie version than the anime version
+Josh Garbo who needs HF shioru we just need UBW movie shirou
Better than UFO
"People die if they are killed."
What I'm not getting is how Archer didn't already know the fight would end this way since he's future Shirou. Like wouldn't he remember, "Oh yeah my future self tried to kill me when I was in the Grail War"
His Grail war was different from any of the other routes. Nobody knows exactly how that played out. People speculate that during Archer's Holy Grail War another Archer other than him was summoned (there are entities in the Nasuverse such as Gaia and Alaya which are in the lookout for possible anomalies, and Archer being summoned during his "official" Holy Grail timeline and trying to kill himself would result in an anomaly. In other words, Archer may kill Shirou as much as he wants, he won't disappear because he's not bound by time AND he cannot be summoned to the timeline which created him. This timeline is not the one who created him, so killing or not killing Shirou ends up the same.)
Thanks for the break down, that explains a lot to me now (non vn reader)
It's also worth pointing out that Archer is not strictly speaking Shirou. Though they focus on the ideals more than anything there are several lines Archer drops that suggests he didn't grow up in the same environment Shirou did. That he wasn't supported by others and reached his realistic/cynical (depending on how you want to view it) ideology very early on, perhaps even before or at the same age Shirou is at now. Short and sloppy version is we're dealing with alternate dimensions, the VN explains this in much more eloquent detail than I can in a short UA-cam comment but that's the gist of it. They're the same person person, but they aren't necessarily they same personality; nurture vs nature and all that.
Archer could be the Emiya in the Fate route who made his ideals a reality. The Archer in the Fate route is still Emiya but he was injured by Saber early on and didn't do much. I'm not sure if it's ever explicitly stated in the VN but that's my guess since you have to read Fate in order to enter UBW properly.
CorruptMadNinja no the creator said that shirou won't become archer in the F/SN in those 3 routes
before Ufotable we have Deen
I have a question so the shirou in ubw will really end up like archer?
This one is too short
Shirou: how to sucide
so how many versions are there and series because im down to watch them all
Here have a guide. www.reddit.com/r/fatestaynight/comments/4rlxls/guide_to_fate_v32/
05:40 karada wa ken de dekiteiru? ITS FUCKING KARADA WA TSURUGI DE DEKITEIRU
i remember a song being sung by a girl when emiya was fighting archer in episode 20 near the end of the episode. can anyone tell me the name? and no its not the emiya theme
I think it's "Last Stardust" by Aimer.
Maybe Archer is future Emiya?
Gavin Cheok If you watched this clip at all or are wathcing the 2014 adaptation, they explain that lol.
So archer is emiya in the future?
Yes
i sware this battle was changed in the cruchy roll verson
That was... decent. But so far, ufotable has been doing much much better than this.
I think that Studio Deen animated this one, not Ufotable
colelegante I... I know that...
Unfortunately, Ufotable is leaning too much towards "visually epic" in their depiction of fights. I hope they won't omit the "clash of ideals" aspect of this fight, and somehow fit in Shirou's inner answer (well, they could maybe made him say it)
***** For me, that whole "clash of ideals" was too meta and nonsensical for me to even care about what they were fighting over. The first few fights were about visually epic shit anyways. Every other part of the show UFOtable has done has been pretty faithful and portrayed well, so I doubt they omit or botch that aspect, however asinine it may seem. They did pretty well with the exact same themes in Fate/Zero, so there's no reason to think they won't be able to do it here.
14megasxlr How can you call this clash of ideals nonsensical.. how...
Sasuke Uchiha vs Reinhard Heydrich
Past vs future