Seen an Umarex Colt SAA “Peacemaker” CO2 pellet pistol the other day, they integrated the Allen wrench for tightening the co2 into the grip you pop off to install it, thought it was freaking genius. Actually the whole little thing was genius but I’m not getting into that here. I like good engineering. 😋
I've watched five reviews for this gun in the last hour. Not because of the gun itself but the style of review between each reviewer's two cents. By far gun Jesus is the most in-depth and unbiased just by presiding facts and history.
This is the first review of this pistol I've watched simply for Ian's take on it being free of bias. Now, I'll watch the rest and see if my view changes.
Press embargoes being what they are, my sub feed was full of Echelon reviews. I knew the Forgotten Weapons review would be the most detailed, so I clicked.
I figured I should let you know that new production XDM pistols (like mine) also have the joint Springfield and HS Produkt crest on the top of the slide. I was also very happy to see this as someone who really enjoys HS Produkt guns.
HS Produkt in Croatia has been on fire with their product line! Everything they're putting out has been really interesting lately, from their bullpup rifle to now this pistol. Two years ago this pistol was already being shown off in Croatia, I guess it's finally making it to the West. There are three different version of the pistol, one with a threaded extended barrel.
@@hoppinggnomethe4154 Do you enjoy retelling people what they've already pointed out? Is redundant trolling a thing now, or are you just special needs?
I wouldn't consider 1 rifle with horrible ergonomics and nothing else that makes it stand apart from all of the other modern rifles out there to be "on fire". This pistol is super generic. Not a single thing special or unique about it. Many companies have been using removable chassis for years...even Ruger
I have always chosen one carry gun and just use it for everything, self defense and target shooting but I really love the modular system. You can setup whatever configuration you want and change it very quickly. My hat's off to both sig and HS for this innovation.
The Military, US, agrees with you. It is pretty cool. Perfect for someone who wants to do target shooting with their ccw. And goo on you for target shooting with what you carry opposed to just those olympic 22s. I mean those are great and have a place but if you are going to be proficient with anything what you use for self defense is most practical.
I know what you mean, one time I had this crazy mexican try to attack me -- I drew my firearm -- but he was begging me to shoot him -- I quickly realized it was one of those suicide attempts by "cop" as they say -- in this case armed civilian -- I just got the hell out of there, and I feel I somehow saved his life -- idk it was fucking weird -- luckily he did not have a gun -- he was just extremely violent
@@jeromethiel4323 Duck! The eye of Springfield is looking this way. sootch00 is the one reviewer that most looks like Gollum so keep an eye on him. He didn't in his reveal vid, but if he starts calling it "Precious" we'll know you're right.
8:00 just sharing a detail, my 2011 XDM 5.25 competition model has that same “Springfield Armory/HS Produkt Karlovac Croatia” so they’ve been marking like that for no less than 12 years.
It’s a shame Steyr never actually did many chassis things with their original patent, US6260301B1. Their M9 series used it and are great pistols, but they never leveraged the modularity on the consumer side.
its because its a dumb design. The receiver is almost always one of the cheapest parts of the gun so you might as well just buy a whole other gun if your buying every other part. Its a solution for a problem that doesn't exist
@@randylahey2242have you not seen the popularity of the 320 and 365, and how massive their aftermarket has become after a relatively short time? You can completely transform your handgun with a cheap grip module, with no worries about serial numbers, etc.
@@randylahey2242 You're wrong. The fire control group is *not* cheap. With a traditional design, you'd need to either permanently modify your grip, if you want to do something else with it, like have a shorter grip, or buy a whole new "Firearm" by getting a new lower. With a chassis, whether you want a 19 or a 17 length grip, you're only a 50, 80 dollar grip module away, which is significantly better than 250 dollars, plus FFL transfer. You can just get a grip module shipped to your door. As well, improved triggers can be extremely expensive. With a chassis, you only have to upgrade your one chassis, and then you can have an improved, expensive trigger on all your grip modules and setups. Plus, some lengths of slides aren't compatible with all lengths of lowers. That inherently necessitates buying even *more* parts if you want more breadth to your options. Plus the cost of upgrading the FCU components if you desire to on each of them. A chassis can easily save you hundreds of dollars, and will invariably save you some annoyance with FFL transfers.
@@Aperson156 if you want a short grip then you will want a short barrel to. If your changing the slide grip and barrel you might as well buy a new gun. If you want a long grip then you might as well have a long barrel to. It makes 0 sense to have a modular pistol. Its not like there is a huge hassle with registering and limits to how many guns you can have. If i want a compact pistol i pick up my 43x, if i want a big pistol i grab a 17. There is no universe where i want to get my hand greasy every time i want to switch guns to save $20 on a transfer fee and have less guns.
@@randylahey2242 Nope. I like shorter grips and longer barrels. Keeps the gun pinned closer to my hip while carrying. Modularity lets you see what works best for you more easily, and allows more upgrades in the future.
I WENT AND BOUGHT ONE after yours and a few other videos about it. IT is a very accurate pistol... HS PRODUKT is making some great firearms. I also have the VHS which ALSO is very very accurate...
It looks like a SIG and a Glock got together, and they loved each other very much, and nine months later...this! I kind of like it and may have to get one to try out.
This. This right here. Sounds like HS is taking chances and coming up with interesting products, that the big players are just not doing as well. Time will tell.
Yes. That shouldn’t be a surprise as Glock helped HS Product design the HS2000. Austria has always been Croatia’s big brother so it is no surprise that an Austrian company helped a Croatian company develop a great product. But since the HS2000, the training wheels have been off and HS Produkt has been doing fantastic on their own.
Honestly, HS Produkt and Springfield sat back taking notes, and they have put out a product that I'm honestly very interested in. Besides the VHS-2 I've never really been interested in anything they put out, and now I'm sitting here thinking that I'll probably have to give this a look.
trust me, smooth as butter. I cant even remember when another gun sat so nicely in my hand while shooting, And on top its pretty precise, very minimal recoil, its just a good good pistol
@@banmadabon Lovely people very friendly and hospitable, good food decent drink. And a friend of mine who lives there has a dshk and a large cache of ammo, if that kind of thing appeals to you.
Thanks Ian, I can watch five other reviewers on the same pistol then watch your video and always learn something new. While they may not be forgotten, I enjoy your videos on more recent and current production firearms and would like to see more.
5:25 I think the implementation of the red dot cut is actually the real innovation of this gun, not the modular fire control unit (TT-33 had it). Most other guns like Glock have proprietary cut, then you install a plate for a certain brand of red dot. So the red dot will sit a bit higher. The pocket guns usually have their slide cut for direct mounting of red dot, but only for a specific foot print like Shield. To put other brands on you still need a plate to convert. Echelon's cut has so many different screw holes drilled already, and pegs are moveable/configurable, so many red dot models can direct mount on it, and sits lower than other guns. This is where the money is, I think :)
@@communistsaregross3165 Hmmm sounds like an uneducated, biased personal opinion based on, probably, what would amount to nothing. Thanks for letting me know. Don't know where I would be without that comment. 😂
Springfield's reps and the podcasts that made a topic of the gun talked up this point a lot too. I hope other companies can follow suit or at least talk to some optics manufacturers and tell them to unify their hole placements.
I’m a big fan of the HS Produkt made firearms. Yours is the only video I’ve seen that actually mentions HS Produces the firearm. They deserve the recognition in my opinion. I’ve often wondered how much say Springfield Armory has in these forearms. Are they a collaboration or does Springfield simply import firearms that HS creates and produces? Of course the HS9!was solely an HS creation as was the VHS2 with some minor tweaks for the American market.
It’s good to see they made the slide catch buttons smaller. Occasionally I depress the catch by mistake with my grip and the slide goes forward on an empty chamber, which is hard to tell when shooting. It is also good to see they improved the way you swap grips. Those damn metal roll pins took forever to beat out through a polymer grip. I am a fan of the larger “grip zone” pattern like on the XDM over this stippling but the stippling is effective. It’s just a texture thing for me. I hope my grip safety never fails :)
Thank you for actually showing the control groups of the p320 and the new HSP gun! I look forward to some deep dives disassembling them for further comparison. Like you, I truly hope the intent by Springfield and/or HS Produkt is to compete with both the p320 and p365. I feel like Sig really missed the mark by not sunsetting the p320 line and expanding their p365 line into 'duty sized' frames and slides as the control group has proven more than durable enough for that task and is an iterative improvement over the 320 (as expected when no longer saddled by the desire to retain commonality with the p250, itself trying to carry on the form factor of the 220 series). Looks neat. If the market support grows nicely, holster makers hop on board, and the real world price a few months from now drops $50-100 USD then I think SA/HSP will have a real winner on their hands.
It's so funny to see my subscription box fill with videos of the same gun at the same time. You can clearly see the time when the release embargo lifted.
Love the XD in .45 and 9mm. Kinda of like the grip safety though; I’ve never had an issue with it interfering in any way. The Double safeties add good redundancy without including a side one
I sometimes feel like I’m the only one that actually likes the grip safety. It is completely passive, and therefore doesn’t require any thought or action to disable, but still makes me feel so much safer reholstering because I can put pressure only on the slide/lower grip ensuring that even if my shirt or something caught the trigger, nothing is going bang. I really wish they would make a newer version of the XDS using the magazines from the Hellcat.
I have a couple of XDs, great pistols. I'll probably get this one, too. Thanks Ian! Changing the registered part seems like a great way to have a convertible carbine?
I think the Springfield XD-40 (or 9 or 45) full service model is the best firearm ever. Similar to a Glock with a top notch trigger. I can't miss with the thing.
@@MagicalTrout I have big hands, I've never noticed the grip safety, never been an issue. That said; they could remove it, I'd be fine with that! I DO prefer at least having the split trigger over the manual safety on my deagle, I couldn't tell you off the top of my head if up or down was safe and they couldn't be bothered to add a drop of red paint. I have a single stage, drop-in FCU for an AR15, it's so nice that it sits in the box looking super pretty :) ironically the one part that I've kept stock on all 3 of my ARs is the $5 mil-spec triggers. They break clean enough and I'm just used to them...
I agree with some of the other comments …that your review was a very informative and detailed.and one of the best I have seen on this firearm. I am not a big springfield fan but after watching your review I am going to have me take a look at this one. Thanks
Another really excellent discussion on a specific firearm. I’ve watched a number of this channel’s videos and have always found them to be both highly informative and a bit calmer than most other videos that focus on a particular firearm. Please continue with the great work!
Best technical review of this new pistol I have seen. Looking forward to watching you shoot it and review it (hopefully without the rmr and surefire that everyone else got for their review).
Big fan of the chassis concept. Owning one gun and being able to swap out the grips is a huge up side compared to the usual handgun scene where you are married to the frame.
How is this weapon forgotten already? Didn't it just release? kidding hahaha, you've been the only person who actually talks in details, I did not know this was in part from Croatia!
It’s crazy that’s what makes a pistol premium nowadays, but I must say the many optic model friendly plate setup is sweet. I can still remember adapter plates 😂 I do feel like my Hellcat RDP was a pretty nice setup, with the comp and red dot included it felt more premium to me, but it’s really just a slight step up from the baseline Hellcat.
I *really* like the look of this. Seems like it would be very comfortable and easy to handle. Not super sold on the whizzbang features, but they likely don't hurt either. Maybe they'll even be nice.
You guys make great guns. Im proud to be Czech. But went with HS Produkt for many reasons. Slick, heavy duty guns. Usually for less, and with extras. A bag and 5 extra magazines with the last one. Nice magazines. Nicer mag release. Nicer barrels. Nicer triggers. Feed ramps. Ergos. Etc. Etc. I'm glad Colt isn't licensing and importing HS . You couldn't afford it, if you could buy it.
That two round extension is actually a four round extension. It takes the 17 round body and allows you to put 21 rounds in it and lock the magazine in reliably
Actually, the chassis concept was pioneered by Kel-Tec in the '90s with the P11, then refined by Sig and now HS/Springfield. EDIT: It has been pointed out in the comments that the chassis concept originally came out of S. Africa. Thanks to everyone who politely and thoughtfully pointed this out.
Great review/breakdown. Long-time fan of the channel. Maybe you can do a compare and contrast between chassis type handguns? Echelon, P250, P320, P365, Steyre M9-A1, ZEV-Tech OZ-9, ZRODelta The ONE and Beretta APX. The OZ-9 and The ONE may be Glock Gen 5 based but it still shows the power of the chassis system. Especially since these Chassis/FCU handguns seems to be part of the future for handguns.
The last thing you'd want is for them to be in direct competition with H&K. As soon as their products start directly competing with H&K, their prices will too.
WOW! Get me this in .30 Super Carry! I like EVERY aspect of this gun. Trigger-only safety and striker fired. And I especially that it's not going to come with the Sig "brand tax". Good job technical side HS, and nice of Springfield Armoury to recognise the value of their partner.
Another excellent video as always... I like and have owned a couple of the original XD which I always liked except for the grip safety... This gun looks to be a tremendous improvement over previous Springfield designs...
I have to admit I always held a slight grudge against Springfield Armory for using that name, and if HS sold guns under their own name in the US I would have a much more positive attitude towards the guns.
@@andersjjensen Ian's a bit behind the times on that item. I own XDMs in 10mm and .45 and a .45 XD-e, all of which have the Springfield Armory/HS Produkt marking.
Yeah! You go, Croatia! Wicked stuff, arm up and stay strong! Sounds like you might just someday give the Czechs a run for their money, and that's bloody high praise from this Canuck. Czechnology is best nology... for now. I'm digging the competition!
never apologize for "rambling on"... your detailed deep dives and factual presentations are precisely why 2.58 million of us have subscribed and watch your videos
For the most part, other channels do the new guns, but when Ian does them, you learn the whys and hows of the design, thus his opinion carries significantly more weight.
Sorry to nitpick, but Sig didn't pioneer the chassis system. For example, Steyr already had a US patent on a pistol chassis system (and they sued Sig over it). And other mfgrs (Kel-Tec for example) experimented with chassis systems in the past. Come to think of it, delving into the history of handgun chassis systems might be a good topic for a video.
Sig definetly pioneered chassis system. Other just use it before but they did not use it in their favor. You cannot buy different sizes (or colors) of grips for Steyr...
Glock didn’t pioneer the polymer pistol either but look who gets credit for doing so…why b/c they are the company that actually got it going in mass usage
An Echelon variant with the Pro SD treatment would be cool. Give it a factory upgraded trigger, 5" threaded barrel (in both 1/2x28 with the Hellcat dimple for the RDP compensator system and the objectively superior M13.5x1LH for suppressor connaisseurs. And not 5.1" or 5.2" as it should stay legal with most competitive rulebooks that ask for 5" flat) and maybe a factory magwell. And ship it with 4 large magazines that have bombproof floorplates. Plus an enlarged slide stop lever, but just on the left side where most right handed people want. Red dot cowitnessing height irons (so lower than full suppressor height) with a fiber optic front, a tungsten guide rod and steel chassis would also be cool, at least as upgrade parts.
My issue just from looking at the chassis system is that it looks like your stuck with the trigger it comes with . So unless it's as good as a stock Walther trigger that's going to become a problem with encouraging aftermarket parts support.
Looks cool. An XD was my first pistol due to price and availability at the time. While it is not my favorite now, I would definitely consider getting one of these! I just need the petty and unsafe handgun "safety" law to be overruled in California, and I will pick one up when available! Very curious how the trigger is!
I wish they'd make a COG available in .25 or .32 ACP for use in a small frame like the Hellcat. It would be so perfect for concealed carry for recoil-sensitive individuals. My Hellcat and and my circa 2017 XDm 3.8 Compact (version before the Elites came out) both have the same Springfield logo with HS Produkt, Karolvac Croatia stamped. It's been on their guns for years. Strange for Ian to get details like this incorrect.
3:35 Are you saying there could be a configuration of the Echelon that has a 10" barrel and has a grip module that accepts single stack mags? So SA would just remove the compliant parts and put the consumer parts on? Like what Zastava does with the ZPAP. Interesting
These are made in Croatia. I don't know what manufacturing facilities Springfield Armory has are in the US, but I can guarantee they are nothing like the HS complex in Karlovac.
This makes me happy. I have several XD products and have had many others. Shame that they don't use the XDm mags lol I have a bunch of those on hand already.
springfields idea to have everybody release their videos about the gun at the same day is brilliant. I see it all over my fyp and nothing else. That´s good marketing
I literally just found out about this new platform yesterday and Ian got a video on it already. Also, I'd be down for a meet and greet at Bear arms. Lol
My old XD9 that I bought in like 2010 has the HS Produkt Karlovac stamp included with Springfield Armory like you pointed out. Was that something that was changed later on?
The metal pin on the interchangeable backstraps is also intended to be the "armorer's tool" (pin punch) for the gun.
Ironic how “armorer’s tool” could also be a good pinch pun.
Smart. Doesn't have to be toolless, just integrate the tool with the gun.
Seen an Umarex Colt SAA “Peacemaker” CO2 pellet pistol the other day, they integrated the Allen wrench for tightening the co2 into the grip you pop off to install it, thought it was freaking genius. Actually the whole little thing was genius but I’m not getting into that here. I like good engineering. 😋
I've watched five reviews for this gun in the last hour. Not because of the gun itself but the style of review between each reviewer's two cents. By far gun Jesus is the most in-depth and unbiased just by presiding facts and history.
This is the first review of this pistol I've watched simply for Ian's take on it being free of bias. Now, I'll watch the rest and see if my view changes.
@@Jeff.78I watched tfb review for the glock fan hate.
@@Sir_Los That was my 2nd
Press embargoes being what they are, my sub feed was full of Echelon reviews. I knew the Forgotten Weapons review would be the most detailed, so I clicked.
@@Sir_Lossoooo much hate from the glock and sig guys. They are salty 😂
I figured I should let you know that new production XDM pistols (like mine) also have the joint Springfield and HS Produkt crest on the top of the slide. I was also very happy to see this as someone who really enjoys HS Produkt guns.
HS Produkt in Croatia has been on fire with their product line! Everything they're putting out has been really interesting lately, from their bullpup rifle to now this pistol. Two years ago this pistol was already being shown off in Croatia, I guess it's finally making it to the West. There are three different version of the pistol, one with a threaded extended barrel.
"Interesting lately" 😂
Those HS Produkt's designs have been out there for years before the import 😂
@@hoppinggnomethe4154 Do you enjoy retelling people what they've already pointed out? Is redundant trolling a thing now, or are you just special needs?
@@hoppinggnomethe4154"Lately" doesn't necessarily mean "new this week."
@@hoppinggnomethe4154know what it was called before this? Can't find much on it, just other models.
I wouldn't consider 1 rifle with horrible ergonomics and nothing else that makes it stand apart from all of the other modern rifles out there to be "on fire". This pistol is super generic. Not a single thing special or unique about it. Many companies have been using removable chassis for years...even Ruger
Damn, we have pretty short memories to already have this on forgotten weapons
More like these WILL be forgotten cuz why are we letting euros make Springfields?! Do the mexicans make COLT now?
🤣
"Today on FORGOTTEN (and Interesting) Weapons.
😅❤
😂😂
Greatings from Croatia
Ian, I really love the way you show the disassembly of firearms!!
It really brings out what makes each gun unique.
I have always chosen one carry gun and just use it for everything, self defense and target shooting but I really love the modular system. You can setup whatever configuration you want and change it very quickly. My hat's off to both sig and HS for this innovation.
The Military, US, agrees with you. It is pretty cool. Perfect for someone who wants to do target shooting with their ccw. And goo on you for target shooting with what you carry opposed to just those olympic 22s. I mean those are great and have a place but if you are going to be proficient with anything what you use for self defense is most practical.
One Gun to rule them all
I know what you mean, one time I had this crazy mexican try to attack me -- I drew my firearm -- but he was begging me to shoot him -- I quickly realized it was one of those suicide attempts by "cop" as they say -- in this case armed civilian -- I just got the hell out of there, and I feel I somehow saved his life -- idk it was fucking weird -- luckily he did not have a gun -- he was just extremely violent
@@thelastjohnwayne One gun to rule them all, One gun to find them, One gun to bring them all and in the range to shoot them. ^-^
@@jeromethiel4323 Duck! The eye of Springfield is looking this way. sootch00 is the one reviewer that most looks like Gollum so keep an eye on him. He didn't in his reveal vid, but if he starts calling it "Precious" we'll know you're right.
8:00 just sharing a detail, my 2011 XDM 5.25 competition model has that same “Springfield Armory/HS Produkt Karlovac Croatia” so they’ve been marking like that for no less than 12 years.
HS PRODUKT made this gun, Croatian factory, they made XDM, HELLCAT, HELLCAT PRO, HELLION and ECHELON I'm so proud 🤗🤭
What the heck this is the best teardown I've seen this far. I had no idea the back strap came out like that.
A single stack 45, or a double stack 9mm on the same platform is a really interesting concept, I am in for one of those!
It’s a shame Steyr never actually did many chassis things with their original patent, US6260301B1. Their M9 series used it and are great pistols, but they never leveraged the modularity on the consumer side.
its because its a dumb design. The receiver is almost always one of the cheapest parts of the gun so you might as well just buy a whole other gun if your buying every other part. Its a solution for a problem that doesn't exist
@@randylahey2242have you not seen the popularity of the 320 and 365, and how massive their aftermarket has become after a relatively short time? You can completely transform your handgun with a cheap grip module, with no worries about serial numbers, etc.
@@randylahey2242 You're wrong. The fire control group is *not* cheap. With a traditional design, you'd need to either permanently modify your grip, if you want to do something else with it, like have a shorter grip, or buy a whole new "Firearm" by getting a new lower. With a chassis, whether you want a 19 or a 17 length grip, you're only a 50, 80 dollar grip module away, which is significantly better than 250 dollars, plus FFL transfer. You can just get a grip module shipped to your door. As well, improved triggers can be extremely expensive. With a chassis, you only have to upgrade your one chassis, and then you can have an improved, expensive trigger on all your grip modules and setups. Plus, some lengths of slides aren't compatible with all lengths of lowers. That inherently necessitates buying even *more* parts if you want more breadth to your options. Plus the cost of upgrading the FCU components if you desire to on each of them.
A chassis can easily save you hundreds of dollars, and will invariably save you some annoyance with FFL transfers.
@@Aperson156 if you want a short grip then you will want a short barrel to. If your changing the slide grip and barrel you might as well buy a new gun. If you want a long grip then you might as well have a long barrel to. It makes 0 sense to have a modular pistol. Its not like there is a huge hassle with registering and limits to how many guns you can have. If i want a compact pistol i pick up my 43x, if i want a big pistol i grab a 17. There is no universe where i want to get my hand greasy every time i want to switch guns to save $20 on a transfer fee and have less guns.
@@randylahey2242 Nope. I like shorter grips and longer barrels. Keeps the gun pinned closer to my hip while carrying. Modularity lets you see what works best for you more easily, and allows more upgrades in the future.
I WENT AND BOUGHT ONE after yours and a few other videos about it. IT is a very accurate pistol... HS PRODUKT is making some great firearms. I also have the VHS which ALSO is very very accurate...
It looks like a SIG and a Glock got together, and they loved each other very much, and nine months later...this! I kind of like it and may have to get one to try out.
My Springfield XD-40 full service model was very similar to how a Glock works but with a TOTALLY better trigger.
This. This right here. Sounds like HS is taking chances and coming up with interesting products, that the big players are just not doing as well. Time will tell.
Kind of looks like the Beretta APX
Yes. That shouldn’t be a surprise as Glock helped HS Product design the HS2000. Austria has always been Croatia’s big brother so it is no surprise that an Austrian company helped a Croatian company develop a great product. But since the HS2000, the training wheels have been off and HS Produkt has been doing fantastic on their own.
Honestly, HS Produkt and Springfield sat back taking notes, and they have put out a product that I'm honestly very interested in. Besides the VHS-2 I've never really been interested in anything they put out, and now I'm sitting here thinking that I'll probably have to give this a look.
trust me, smooth as butter. I cant even remember when another gun sat so nicely in my hand while shooting, And on top its pretty precise, very minimal recoil, its just a good good pistol
I love Croatia, it's a great place to visit.
@@banmadabonhow Serbian of you...
😂
@@banmadabon Lovely people very friendly and hospitable, good food decent drink. And a friend of mine who lives there has a dshk and a large cache of ammo, if that kind of thing appeals to you.
Thanks Ian, I can watch five other reviewers on the same pistol then watch your video and always learn something new.
While they may not be forgotten, I enjoy your videos on more recent and current production firearms and would like to see more.
5:25 I think the implementation of the red dot cut is actually the real innovation of this gun, not the modular fire control unit (TT-33 had it). Most other guns like Glock have proprietary cut, then you install a plate for a certain brand of red dot. So the red dot will sit a bit higher. The pocket guns usually have their slide cut for direct mounting of red dot, but only for a specific foot print like Shield. To put other brands on you still need a plate to convert. Echelon's cut has so many different screw holes drilled already, and pegs are moveable/configurable, so many red dot models can direct mount on it, and sits lower than other guns. This is where the money is, I think :)
@@communistsaregross3165 ...words without any experience behind. You're probably "influencer";-)))
@@communistsaregross3165 Hmmm sounds like an uneducated, biased personal opinion based on, probably, what would amount to nothing. Thanks for letting me know. Don't know where I would be without that comment. 😂
Springfield's reps and the podcasts that made a topic of the gun talked up this point a lot too. I hope other companies can follow suit or at least talk to some optics manufacturers and tell them to unify their hole placements.
I’m a big fan of the HS Produkt made firearms. Yours is the only video I’ve seen that actually mentions HS Produces the firearm. They deserve the recognition in my opinion.
I’ve often wondered how much say Springfield Armory has in these forearms. Are they a collaboration or does Springfield simply import firearms that HS creates and produces? Of course the HS9!was solely an HS creation as was the VHS2 with some minor tweaks for the American market.
It’s good to see they made the slide catch buttons smaller. Occasionally I depress the catch by mistake with my grip and the slide goes forward on an empty chamber, which is hard to tell when shooting.
It is also good to see they improved the way you swap grips. Those damn metal roll pins took forever to beat out through a polymer grip.
I am a fan of the larger “grip zone” pattern like on the XDM over this stippling but the stippling is effective. It’s just a texture thing for me.
I hope my grip safety never fails :)
Thank you for actually showing the control groups of the p320 and the new HSP gun! I look forward to some deep dives disassembling them for further comparison. Like you, I truly hope the intent by Springfield and/or HS Produkt is to compete with both the p320 and p365. I feel like Sig really missed the mark by not sunsetting the p320 line and expanding their p365 line into 'duty sized' frames and slides as the control group has proven more than durable enough for that task and is an iterative improvement over the 320 (as expected when no longer saddled by the desire to retain commonality with the p250, itself trying to carry on the form factor of the 220 series).
Looks neat. If the market support grows nicely, holster makers hop on board, and the real world price a few months from now drops $50-100 USD then I think SA/HSP will have a real winner on their hands.
It sounds like youre describing the X-macro
It's so funny to see my subscription box fill with videos of the same gun at the same time. You can clearly see the time when the release embargo lifted.
Love the XD in .45 and 9mm. Kinda of like the grip safety though; I’ve never had an issue with it interfering in any way. The Double safeties add good redundancy without including a side one
I sometimes feel like I’m the only one that actually likes the grip safety. It is completely passive, and therefore doesn’t require any thought or action to disable, but still makes me feel so much safer reholstering because I can put pressure only on the slide/lower grip ensuring that even if my shirt or something caught the trigger, nothing is going bang. I really wish they would make a newer version of the XDS using the magazines from the Hellcat.
@@jonathang6920Exactly. You explain the things I like about the grip safety better than I could.
The Springfield EcHELLon was right there, Springfield. Who's running your branding department?
I have a couple of XDs, great pistols. I'll probably get this one, too. Thanks Ian!
Changing the registered part seems like a great way to have a convertible carbine?
I think the Springfield XD-40 (or 9 or 45) full service model is the best firearm ever. Similar to a Glock with a top notch trigger.
I can't miss with the thing.
@@MagicalTrout It's a passive safety. The greatest kind of safety.
@@MagicalTrout I have big hands, I've never noticed the grip safety, never been an issue. That said; they could remove it, I'd be fine with that! I DO prefer at least having the split trigger over the manual safety on my deagle, I couldn't tell you off the top of my head if up or down was safe and they couldn't be bothered to add a drop of red paint.
I have a single stage, drop-in FCU for an AR15, it's so nice that it sits in the box looking super pretty :) ironically the one part that I've kept stock on all 3 of my ARs is the $5 mil-spec triggers. They break clean enough and I'm just used to them...
Breakfast with Forgotten Weapons always tastes better ❤
Great to relax with and learn with before work❤
Right!😂
I agree with some of the other comments …that your review was a very informative and detailed.and one of the best I have seen on this firearm. I am not a big springfield fan but after watching your review I am going to have me take a look at this one.
Thanks
Just drinking coffee, found the New release video I was looking for. 👌 Super Fine review/table top. Appreciate it
Another really excellent discussion on a specific firearm. I’ve watched a number of this channel’s videos and have always found them to be both highly informative and a bit calmer than most other videos that focus on a particular firearm. Please continue with the great work!
one of the best channels out there, not just for firearms, but as a whole! and ian is a hottie! see you at uspsa at pima🎉
Damn near the only "review" or break down of this firearm that didn't ignore the fact that it's an imported pistol and not a "springfield" piece lol
Best technical review of this new pistol I have seen. Looking forward to watching you shoot it and review it (hopefully without the rmr and surefire that everyone else got for their review).
Moment of appreciation of how you did the first third in one take
Big fan of the chassis concept. Owning one gun and being able to swap out the grips is a huge up side compared to the usual handgun scene where you are married to the frame.
Ah I wish you'd shown more on the optics mounting system! It seems like that may be the most revolutionary new design of the pistol.
The Beretta APX also has a chassis that can be removed from the grip frame. They offer frames in different colors as aftermarket parts.
How is this weapon forgotten already? Didn't it just release? kidding hahaha, you've been the only person who actually talks in details, I did not know this was in part from Croatia!
The inclusion of premium features like the light rail, ambi controls, and optics mounting plate is definitely a plus.
It’s crazy that’s what makes a pistol premium nowadays, but I must say the many optic model friendly plate setup is sweet. I can still remember adapter plates 😂 I do feel like my Hellcat RDP was a pretty nice setup, with the comp and red dot included it felt more premium to me, but it’s really just a slight step up from the baseline Hellcat.
Those are standard features on Caniks lmao
@@troubleinbound True 😂
I wouldn’t call this premium features. Those are all pretty standard these days.
What are you smoking? Those are pretty basic features these days.
Ian, Another well spoken and very enjoyable production!
Finally someone who actually names this for what it is, HS Produkt from coratia, a fine manufactrr, NOT SA which is just the US importer nothing more
I am seeing no less than 4 videos pop up today about this pistol. There are probably more. Great advertising.
I *really* like the look of this. Seems like it would be very comfortable and easy to handle.
Not super sold on the whizzbang features, but they likely don't hurt either. Maybe they'll even be nice.
Looks like a fake Canik
Great review Ian. Always enjoy your videos and I love my Echelon!
Proud to be a Croatian 🫶🇭🇷
You guys make great guns.
Im proud to be Czech. But went with HS Produkt for many reasons. Slick, heavy duty guns. Usually for less, and with extras. A bag and 5 extra magazines with the last one. Nice magazines. Nicer mag release. Nicer barrels. Nicer triggers. Feed ramps. Ergos. Etc. Etc.
I'm glad Colt isn't licensing and importing HS .
You couldn't afford it, if you could buy it.
@@JP-yt3nk czechs and croats, brothers of the same mothers 🍺
CZ 75 Best gun ever !!! Pozdrav iz Hrvatske
Dang! Was ALL of UA-cam given this pistol!
no, we bought this one :P
That two round extension is actually a four round extension. It takes the 17 round body and allows you to put 21 rounds in it and lock the magazine in reliably
Actually, the chassis concept was pioneered by Kel-Tec in the '90s with the P11, then refined by Sig and now HS/Springfield.
EDIT: It has been pointed out in the comments that the chassis concept originally came out of S. Africa. Thanks to everyone who politely and thoughtfully pointed this out.
yup keltec really never gets their due though
All that cocaine really did pay off for the Kel-Tec folks
Kel Tec is very creative
No in the 80s republic arms in South Africa was the first and they had a patent for it the inventor was Stuart Beachum
Thank you! There’s always something new to learn!
Loved the insight on why we’re seeing all the modular FCUs from Europe and the 1968 gun regulation. Subscribership earned.
Great review/breakdown. Long-time fan of the channel.
Maybe you can do a compare and contrast between chassis type handguns?
Echelon, P250, P320, P365, Steyre M9-A1, ZEV-Tech OZ-9, ZRODelta The ONE and Beretta APX. The OZ-9 and The ONE may be Glock Gen 5 based but it still shows the power of the chassis system.
Especially since these Chassis/FCU handguns seems to be part of the future for handguns.
I think its interesting to note that the Walther PPS gen 1 and 2 both use a chassis insert. However, it is not easily removable and is not serialized.
The Sig P250 was available in 9mm, .40, and .45 using the same chassis so it's not impossible that HS could do it as well.
FWIW, it's actually a +3 baseplate, making it a 20-round magazine. Can confirm, I have an Echelon.
Can also confirm the mag will hold 21 if you really want it to.
Best review!!! Gun Jesus doesn’t disappoint!!!
I really think HS Produkt is well on it's way to be a major player in firearm development. I think they could very well rival HK, SIG, and FN.
They cant low price is their main adventage
The last thing you'd want is for them to be in direct competition with H&K. As soon as their products start directly competing with H&K, their prices will too.
@@dave_riots Good point!
they are mainly developing for their home country military use
This is a super generic pistol. The only unique thing they have is the VHS which quite frankly sucks. They don't compare to the other companies
WOW! Get me this in .30 Super Carry! I like EVERY aspect of this gun. Trigger-only safety and striker fired. And I especially that it's not going to come with the Sig "brand tax". Good job technical side HS, and nice of Springfield Armoury to recognise the value of their partner.
Another excellent video as always... I like and have owned a couple of the original XD which I always liked except for the grip safety... This gun looks to be a tremendous improvement over previous Springfield designs...
I actually like EVERYTHING about it. I might have to pick one of these up. It will be this or the Arex.
Same. If they make a version in .30 Super Carry I'm sold without hesitation.
I LOVE it!!! I think HS/Springfield have a big winner on their hands here.
I have to admit I always held a slight grudge against Springfield Armory for using that name, and if HS sold guns under their own name in the US I would have a much more positive attitude towards the guns.
Welp. Now their name is on the gun at least.
Money is power.
Ok
@@andersjjensen Ian's a bit behind the times on that item. I own XDMs in 10mm and .45 and a .45 XD-e, all of which have the Springfield Armory/HS Produkt marking.
Yeah Springfield supporting gun control keeps me from ever giving them any of my jars earned money thats for sure
Yeah! You go, Croatia! Wicked stuff, arm up and stay strong! Sounds like you might just someday give the Czechs a run for their money, and that's bloody high praise from this Canuck. Czechnology is best nology... for now. I'm digging the competition!
never apologize for "rambling on"... your detailed deep dives and factual presentations are precisely why 2.58 million of us have subscribed and watch your videos
For the most part, other channels do the new guns, but when Ian does them, you learn the whys and hows of the design, thus his opinion carries significantly more weight.
@@BeingFireRetardant indubitably
Thanks for the good review as always!
Very informative.
Thanks so much for sharing this with us all.
Sorry to nitpick, but Sig didn't pioneer the chassis system. For example, Steyr already had a US patent on a pistol chassis system (and they sued Sig over it). And other mfgrs (Kel-Tec for example) experimented with chassis systems in the past. Come to think of it, delving into the history of handgun chassis systems might be a good topic for a video.
Chinese have it on QSZ-92 pistol, designed in early 1990s
Sig definetly pioneered chassis system. Other just use it before but they did not use it in their favor. You cannot buy different sizes (or colors) of grips for Steyr...
Glock didn’t pioneer the polymer pistol either but look who gets credit for doing so…why b/c they are the company that actually got it going in mass usage
I think I'd prefer to have beefier frame rails on the chassis like the APX, but it appears to check all the other boxes (and then some).
An Echelon variant with the Pro SD treatment would be cool. Give it a factory upgraded trigger, 5" threaded barrel (in both 1/2x28 with the Hellcat dimple for the RDP compensator system and the objectively superior M13.5x1LH for suppressor connaisseurs. And not 5.1" or 5.2" as it should stay legal with most competitive rulebooks that ask for 5" flat) and maybe a factory magwell. And ship it with 4 large magazines that have bombproof floorplates. Plus an enlarged slide stop lever, but just on the left side where most right handed people want.
Red dot cowitnessing height irons (so lower than full suppressor height) with a fiber optic front, a tungsten guide rod and steel chassis would also be cool, at least as upgrade parts.
Dang, pistol just introduced today, and already Forgotten.
My issue just from looking at the chassis system is that it looks like your stuck with the trigger it comes with . So unless it's as good as a stock Walther trigger that's going to become a problem with encouraging aftermarket parts support.
Loved your application for Manca's follow up at Polenar Tactical........unremembered Firearms....🤣
I have had a HS2000 for 4 years and never had a grip safety failure or issue.
6:04 I assume the sights are as easy to change out as they are on an XD which requires a sight press tool unless you want to destroy the sights
Looks cool. An XD was my first pistol due to price and availability at the time. While it is not my favorite now, I would definitely consider getting one of these! I just need the petty and unsafe handgun "safety" law to be overruled in California, and I will pick one up when available! Very curious how the trigger is!
What do you think is better?
I haven't found one yet.
What zone is it supposed to be gripped in? I can't tell!
The Kel-Tec P-11 had a chassis system in the 90's. Sig didn't pioneer it, they just made it more popular like the 365.
Its big for cali with the current rulling, the rooster only req a mag disconnect and loaded chamber ind. sig just added their m18/p320
Sig 320 now available with less accidental discharge!
I wish they'd make a COG available in .25 or .32 ACP for use in a small frame like the Hellcat. It would be so perfect for concealed carry for recoil-sensitive individuals.
My Hellcat and and my circa 2017 XDm 3.8 Compact (version before the Elites came out) both have the same Springfield logo with HS Produkt, Karolvac Croatia stamped. It's been on their guns for years. Strange for Ian to get details like this incorrect.
The hellcat is already a competitive alternative to the 365
Maybe P365XL vs hellcat pro, but other than that not really.
P365 line expands much more and has much better models, it's not really a contest.
@@SubBubz it would not be that hard to make the hellcat smaller. A shorter barrel and grip are an easily feasible option that they have
@@SubBubz”better models” that have worse grips, a proprietary rail, and hold less ammo in the same size? Suuuuureeee
When I went and shot both of them I preferred the Hellcat Pro. I bought one that day and it has been my daily carry gun since then.
This was an awesome video of the pistol.
Thanks!
Thats a really neat looking gun!
great videos as always, Ian McCollum of the Forgotten Weapons website!
Looking big today Ian
Springfield marketing department went HAM on this one.
3:35 Are you saying there could be a configuration of the Echelon that has a 10" barrel and has a grip module that accepts single stack mags? So SA would just remove the compliant parts and put the consumer parts on? Like what Zastava does with the ZPAP. Interesting
Wasn’t Steyr in Austria the first company to create a chassis based handgun not Sig Sauer?
Croatia really likes modularity 😄
Not when Milosevic wanted to make them modular X)
It's a good concept for a smaller population nation
@@joshstanton267 True.
Looks really nice. Never purchased one of the Sig Chassis firearms but I may give this HS chassis a spin.
The main advantage to me is the pins on the optic hole..finally a low setting and solid mounting.
So this is a hs produkt thing? James gave me the impression it was actually springfield pumping these out.
These are made in Croatia. I don't know what manufacturing facilities Springfield Armory has are in the US, but I can guarantee they are nothing like the HS complex in Karlovac.
love how ian whispering in HS's ear "you shall build a single stack .45"
This makes me happy. I have several XD products and have had many others. Shame that they don't use the XDm mags lol I have a bunch of those on hand already.
Love how you say Karlovac properly.
springfields idea to have everybody release their videos about the gun at the same day is brilliant. I see it all over my fyp and nothing else. That´s good marketing
I literally just found out about this new platform yesterday and Ian got a video on it already. Also, I'd be down for a meet and greet at Bear arms. Lol
I knew that the modular chassis idea was gonna be the next big thing. It just makes so much sense for everyone to pivot towards that.
Great video Ian, thank you!
My old XD9 that I bought in like 2010 has the HS Produkt Karlovac stamp included with Springfield Armory like you pointed out. Was that something that was changed later on?
The ergonomics remind me of the Beretta APX. I think HS/Springfield probably has a winner on their hands.
Looks to be about the size of G17? Definitely interested in this one. looks nice!