Legend: Go attack and die-die! Storm Vermin: Don't you mean "or die-die"? Legend: No-no! Storm Vermin *all dead" Legend: Yes-yes! Legend of Total War is greatest-best tactician!
Ya like oil and water Dude has no idea how storm vermin work or rattling gunners I always deploy storm vermin as head taker or ikit claw because how good they are at hold enemy down Everyone mistake is thinking they ment to do DPS because they not they line holders (not apply to Halbirts) Edit: after all I never fail a legendary skaven campaign with storm vermin
You should add a few seconds onto that so that we can also watch the part where he says "rubbish stormvermin, get the fuck out of my face" with his whole heart
"Rubbish Stormvermins, get the hell out of my face" The stormvermins, literally sacrifing themself to delay the green tide as long as possible, so their brothers in arms can shoot them: "Ok :("
@@omikamiz568 Yeah, I know, loyalty in the skaven is not that high (like inexistant), but you gotta admit, it's in clan mors that there is the most loyalty
"but Legend, silver helms are really good cav units...". Guys, what you don't understand is, no matter how good a cav is, it is still a cav unit which doesn't really perform well in this game... they're no mages or artillery
I actually despised playing as Skaven but after watching so many videos of yours about how to properly play them, they've become my #2 favorite race for me after the Druchii.
Eww Druchii, agh aaagh. If you couldn't learn how to play skaven without Legend you don't deserve their power. I've been playing skaven before they were even good with the clan skryre dlc. (Am joking btw, except that last part.)
I still don't get them. The winds of magic are never enough for more than 3 vermin tides and then im fucked because the stegadons are making chopped meat out of my weapons teams
@@pain002 this is why I late game still sometimes have like 2 stormvermin halberd in a army that if there is to many large monster or cav in the waves that come at you. You have something to tie those things down for your weapon teams to relocate and then your pull the storms back or send a hero at it and then blast it to shreds.
Fun fact, when queek is maxed out, stormvermin only cost 54g upkeep per turn, but Clanrats cost 1g per turn. You can bring 580 clanrats for the cost of a single stormvermin.
yea i think stormverim were okey before the skryer dlc, as once we got the big weapons teams like jazzels and ratling gunners male infantry became useless as they would get in the way of gunner teams so having summoners instead meant you dont need to heal those infantry units as they despawn and you can position them behind enemies too so gunners keep shooting
Play the map at high difficulty and the battle at normal. It'll save you a lot this problem. Sure, you'll still be fighting outnumbered, but your units will actually preform like they should. The higher difficulties in battles does not affect the AI.
If you just play on normal battle difficulty without AI cheats than most army comps become viable. LOTC just prefers the highest effectiveness armies w/o fluff
I'm kinda stupid at times, so I always took Queek as the exception of Stormvermin recruitment since he has so many different buffs for them. But the army loss penalty and how much the game weighs stormvermin does make a whole lot more sense. Thanks for the informative video!
7:20 Legend: Wooow look at those Stormvermin *mock voice* "but Legend they were fighthing trolls that's bot fair" Me: Incorrect. They were fighting the plagueclaw fire. Catapult's Crew: What-What?? I only see-musk deatg corpses
The funny thing is, Skaven in Fantasy operate the same as Imperial Guard in 40K: the infantry can die in droves as long as the guns do the heavy lifting. In 40K a human is about as much worth as a rat in fantsay; talk about grimdark... ;-)
Stormvermin are useful in multiplayer, especially in the skaven mirror matchup where they have shields and can munch an infinite amount of skavenslaves, and the halberds make short work of any flankers except for death runners, not great but can be a tech piece
@@xenaro4761 halberds + hellpits + ogres + death runners + plague priests, you can rush down anyone and anything (except on legendary battle difficulty maybe)
What legend means is: in combat stormvermin are just a little bit better than skavenslaves. But if you take a cheese army into auto-resolve you will be obliterated, stormvermin are usefull so you don't have to manually resolve every battle.
Legend is doing the great horned rats work, and one day when the great ascendency occurs, and skaven rule all they see, Legend shall be there at his side.
as much as I agree infantry is shit in this game....... this video isn't really representative of that. OF COURSE infantry melts when it's fighting 30 enemy units and getting pelted by its own artilery.
in my experience skaven slaves do get the same results as stormvermin, if your micro is on point, since they last like 3 seconds on the harder difficulties. So when you have 5 APM or just want to watch a few seconds of the fight, stormvermin or clan rats are preferable because they take longer to die
Recently finished a Skaven mortal empires campaign for the first time, on very hard, using Legends general tactics. Mid game and on armies were - Lord, 4 Plagues priests, 1 assassin, 6 ratling guns, 8 plagueclaw catapults. Any army, no matter how elite, just melted away to the withering fire, and anything that managed to get close had endless waves of Vermintide and menace below summons to chew through. The assassin, while mostly there to give army replenishment, ended up having something like 86 attack, and could destroy any pesky hero that was hiding from the ratling guns. It took me 4 frustrated attempts over the years at trying to play Skaven normally before i finally accepted how they are best played. Prob my favourite race now, so, cheers to you Legend.
Probably the dude was trying to roleplay and has a lot of stormvermin in his army because of lore reasons. I also want to try it after my Ikit campaign, but i recon it will be quite a challenge even on hard difficulty
It's very doable on hard, I've taken the entire world edge mountains without too much hassle (other than from thorgrim) with stormvermin rp armies, pretty fun too. You kinda need to change your perception of skaven into that of an imperial shield wall line with artillery firing over tbh haha
@@TheDinofou Yeah they kinda were, mostly for their loyalty and bodyguards for Skaven lords. Unless you were Clan Rictus or some what Mors, there weren't many of them in battle.
@@TheDinofou yeah in lore they really rare skavens, who have something, that can very very hardly, but called a honour. Skaven-honour... or whatever... But they are really rare ultimately elite bodyguards of "13 council"
In my Ikit claw playthrough (merely on hard) I arrived at something close to a Legend-approved army as my favourite. The main difference was, I had a few more Jezeals than Ratling Guns, as I found them getting more kills overall thanks to their long range and accuracy, and that I would only have 2 Plague priests/seers, and use several Hell Pit Abominations as my front line. The latter was also because I don't have the DLC for Poison Wind mortars, so I needed something that was useful in siege attacks.
I also thought that stormvermin are a way to go if you want to protect your weapon teams, but no, I probably killed more of them with ratling guns and poison wind mortars than my enemies did.
But only against the Plague Priest. If it was against any melee infantry unit, no shits given. The teams hit the Plague Priest? Waste of warpstone. The teams hit a "friendly" Clanrat/Skavenslave/Stormvermin/Plague Monk? A tolerable miss.
Stormvermin are useful. They are for absorbing cavalry charges etc in the flanks and that's basically it- But in the hands of your average player, the Skaven really need that. A skaven army without that can just be totally hard countered by anything fast. Don't think of them as elite troops, think of them as guards. The real reason Stormvermin are shit is actually just a weird quirk of this game's three tier infantry system and 20 unit stack limitation- You are incentivised towards only using the "best" units in your armies because you are limited to 20 units, and punished for having more stacks. The tabletop game uses a point system, meaning multiple units of cheap troops can be used in place of a single unit of elite troops. Total War needs to ditch the 20 unit limit and replace it with something more granular. Trust me, I'm an actual Skaven.
The AI loves to send cav out early before the rest of the army. This way you can either intercept them with your lords or heros while your ranged units kill them or just bog them down with summons. Yes, someone who doesnt know what they are doing they will get wiped out but someone who does know, they will just murder everything. I learned from Legend that sending out your heros early and harass them is absolutely great for the skaven. It bogs the AI down, makes them shoot and not move their ranged units, literally buys you even more time to pepper them from range. And every 10 second that you delay the AI will rake in massive kills. Skaven are just that great at taking out units from range and every 10 second you get weakens them massively.
@@ShinForgotPassxXx Yeah, that's part of my point- For someone who knows how to cheese the AI these units are of little use, but that's an AI problem, not a unit problem. If you are lactose intolerant or... I don't know... Playing against a human, none of that shit works.
The thing between Clan Rats & Skavenslaves vs. Stormvermin is that Stormvermin stack is only good for rushing a settlement's walls and then you can basically hope you win the siege, same with a death runner stack. Clanrats (with a tech) and Skavenslaves are EXPENDABLE however, so when they die they do not affect anyone other than other expendable units which don't matter, because they are expendable, Stormvermin are not expendable, they die and then you get army losses and lose. And yes, Stormvermin & Death Runner stacks are a option but for siege battles or battles overall you'd rather have rattlings, globadier mortars, warp lightning cannons, plagueclaw catapults and plague priests, preferably if you want a marathon fighter army that can beat many armies on it's own, you should preferably use Ikit Claw, or at least start with Ikit Claw to get the Clan Skryre benefits. However, being Clan Skryre but confederating and using Lord Skrolk as the lord of the army is a very viable option, you get 3 plague priests with price of 2 basically, or 2 for 1 and with that 1 extra slot in your army you can get more artillery or rattlings or mortars or whatever you fancy, warplock engineer is also a good choice.
the gauntlet has been thrown down. Tretch Craventail marches with a stack of nothing but stormvermin to quash this "legend" upstart. He's not afraid of you; he can run-flee faster!
youtube outdone itself "benjamin rurnbull here and today we're got a seven-year disaster battle playing as quick head taker going up against grim girls odd boys..." lol
The relevant stats Stormvermin have over skavenslaves are: Armour, Leadership, Melee Defense. This means that they take a lot longer to break and can absorb a lot more damage before breaking. This makes them somewhat workable as flank guards for your gunline. Skavenslaves take the initial assault and get shot to pieces by friendly fire because who cares, while stormvermin guard your gunline from flank charges long enough for you to deal with the guys in front of you and swing your weapons teams around for flank fire. If you're noticing that's an incredibly niche use, congratulations, you've noticed that Stormvermin are crap!
I bet the popularity of Stormvermin is largely thanks to Vermintide really endearing a lot of people to them. Everybody remembers their iconic "HEE! HAW! HEE! HAW!" that they make while patrolling...and how they **** even experienced teams up if they're not careful.
It just feels wrong to not use the skaven elite infantry that are stormvermin, especially when the faction leader's trait is pro stormvermin. Also seeing this from the tabletop miniature game viewpoint where stormvermin are the elite infantry. It's CA's fault though that we are forced into army comps where elite infantry have no place.
youre only forced into that if you play on high difficulties. The problem with that is AI gets alot of cheats in battles to make them harder, therefor some units are rubbish for the player as a result. Normal is where AI doesnt get any bonuses so if you have infantry that can beat some other infantry then in battle it should always do so without external help. On legendary its like the cheapest dwarven infantry unit can beat chaos chosen in battle... or its equal, which it shouldnt be.
I used to play this game in honest-decent way, but after watching this channel for some time now, I've learnt to have fun cheesing-outsmarting the IA yes yes. I'd sent you my disaster campaings but as a follower-slave of the great nightlord, that just doesn't happen.
The "shrine" of plague priest (yeah i know it's not good at all) also have a breath spell (without magic cost!), that can be used nearly (about ~30 meters), don't forget it, Legend, on unarmored infantry that deal nice free damage %)
In my Skrolk campaign I planned to keep a few units of plague monks (the player needs 4 units for a quest) in order to have a thematic army, since they cost 45 upkeep per turn only at the end of Skrolk's blue line. But then I needed jezzails and mortars for sieges, and the monks upkeep was 4 times bigger if I transfered them in another army, so bye bye Plagueguard. I'll definetely keep a couple of stormvermin in a army lead by Queek though, since he needs less firepower.
Done three full map completions with clan Skryre, on legendary. The only time I recruited melee infantry( excluding heroes) was just at the start, when I physically didn't have a weapon team building. Seriously, the Ratlings *are* the front-line. With inherent speed debuff on hit, and poison from the plague priest, you do NOT need infantry. Like, at all. Doomwheels, heroes - yes, but no infantry. Even for generic Warlock lords.
its less you dont need and more like rat infantry is so shit every race basically has better which is sad as why even have the units lol I never recruit clan rats or higher :D slave rats all the way never need to make a better building settlement building is enough even early game slave rats are not bad vs lizards if you just suround lizards and inflict flank dmg
@@ErrorGameManiac No, it is exactly that, you do *not* need infantry as Skaven no matter how strong they would be (which they are not, but this in not the point). Even if their infantry were able to take Ironbreakers/Chaos Chosen. Because, you have so much *really* good stuff in Skaven roster, like Lightning cannons, Warplocks, Poisonwind Mortars, Ratling Guns (duh), Warlock engineer for ammo/missile strength/ range upgrades, Plague Priest for winds of magic generation and Bless With Filth spells. And will all above mentioned, you just do not have a space for boring infantry. You just repel enemy on approach, because your artillery have so much range/damage and speed debuff from BwF, and your Ratlings have over 1k dps, it is not even funny. Again, on VH battle difficulty, I kid you not, just try it.
When i played skaven as ikit (my most very early games) i just realised that strmvermin are too expencive when o can just have clanrat spears hold the enemy while my backline deleted everything. And ikit helped by blobing units around and randomly zapping them in his 1 wheel motorbike.
I personally prefer using clanrats spears & shields to skavensaves, better melee defense and armor means they last longer holding the line, and they don't get ripped to shreds by missile fire because of the shields.
always play stormvermin, you dont play them for stats you take them for style. just look at their shinny armor and helmets they are adorable (like rats in general)!
To be fair I have managed to make storm vermin work before but I mostly use them when i am building army’s around themes or putting them a my assassin army to use as bate and guard the artillery
This just shows the strength of the skaven. Ratling guns just delete everything off the battlefield. The whole 18 minutes are nothing but a showcase on how to play Skaven.
If they added better AI instead of bullshit stat buffs for higher difficulties , stormvermin would maybe be quite good. But the truth is they need to be reworked in general, maybe nearly unbreakable could work, but would be against lore even tho these are elites. I guess stat boosting would be the best choice then. Maybe an aura around stormvermin that makes other units fight better. So if you have a unit of stormvermin all clanrats around them fight better, slaves become unbreakable because of fear of the stormvermin maybe. And the more stormvermin units there are nearby the higher the bonuses to leadership and melee defense/attack they get. Making them supporting frontline would probably make them viable.
that would be busted very fast stormvermin are in a decent niche position the reason legend hates them is he plays a mode where everything melee related gets nuked to oblivion cause CA give the ai the mental capability of a 3 year old
@@thehistorians5231 I must infer that THE FIRST thing ive said was that stormverin WOULD BE GOOD if the AI didnt get superbuffed melee in harder difficulties. We are in agreement here and i was throwing out ideas just for discourse. Thank you for the feedback anyway.
@@okupant880 yeah exacly but "Unbreakable skavenslaves in a AOE" would be busted real quick im all for buffing stormvermin if need be but not making them perhaps the best infantry in the game if you want sturdier skavenslaves bring a grey seer on a bell + the censor bearer ROR
I can’t wait for the day the AI skaven tries to send an army of Stormvermin against him. His disgust would be the legendary but the battle would be one sided.
honestly i use the skirmishers from the echin build path for my front because i also get assassins for sniping lords and heroes or alternatively the skavenslaves with slings cuz you might as well
i mat not have played skaven before but if you at least know a bit (i know much) about their lore and also how expendable units work it is really a no brainer that they NEED to have units that will take the beating and even die-die. while the stormvermin belong to the specialist category along the gutter runners,plague monks e.t.c. what i don't get is why did you made an army filled with them.
If you TRULY understand skaven you ofcourse get a stormvermin unit. No need for more then one or 2, but nothing better then a stormvermin to deal with the scraps after weopens teams have done their work and inevitably have to stop firing due to lack of ammo or line of sight bs. What is left by then? Not skaven slaves who break at the mere sight of the enemy, not plague monks who have used up all the magic already, not your heroes who are already on low health... But there is, if you have payed attention, a full health stormvermin ofcourse held in reserve, because you truly understand skaven...
In fairness, Skaven really did suck when the game first released. They didn't become good until the Ikit Claw update dropped with Jezails and Ratling guns.
Legend: Go attack and die-die!
Storm Vermin: Don't you mean "or die-die"?
Legend: No-no!
Storm Vermin *all dead"
Legend: Yes-yes! Legend of Total War is greatest-best tactician!
This is the best summary of any video I've ever seen, well done
Fun-funny comment!
Legend: "No-no, watch out the friendly fire!"
Skaven weapon teams: "Your tactics confuse and frighten me sir"
*sir-sir
get a man who treats you the way legend treats stormvermin. wait.
I see you're a man of culture as well
More like the ratling guns lol
Ah, so that's what I've been doing wrong.
I've already got one. Me.
I see this as an absolute win
LoTW: "There's no reason anyone wants to fight to the death"
Slayers: That's a grudging
Storms vermin council guard: yes yes dawf thing
It seems like Legend and the Skaven were meant to be together
It's like Legend and the Turks faction in Medieval II.
But he be calling our cannon fodder trash lol. Lemongrab, “ This is Unacceptable!!”
@@GlaDi02 yes yes skaven sniff sniff love cheese food thing yes yes
Ya like oil and water
Dude has no idea how storm vermin work or rattling gunners I always deploy storm vermin as head taker or ikit claw because how good they are at hold enemy down
Everyone mistake is thinking they ment to do DPS because they not they line holders (not apply to Halbirts)
Edit: after all I never fail a legendary skaven campaign with storm vermin
8:46 and 8:55 is what everyone REALLY watches this channel for.
You are welcome
A lot of his laughs remind me of an Old Witch.
You should add a few seconds onto that so that we can also watch the part where he says "rubbish stormvermin, get the fuck out of my face" with his whole heart
14:21 The most lore breaking Skaven comment.
Feels bad when Crimson guard is too crap to use in a queek army
It´s not, you just have to use it correctly: as cannon fodder.
@@sim.frischh9781 then why not use something cheaper lol
@@gabrielnguyen5580 Well, a single Plague Priest gets you 5 Clanrats and 2 Plague Monks units...
@@sim.frischh9781 wdym
@@sim.frischh9781 like kill wise? (sry i don't really play skaven or much tww2 other than occasional tomb kings
"Rubbish Stormvermins, get the hell out of my face"
The stormvermins, literally sacrifing themself to delay the green tide as long as possible, so their brothers in arms can shoot them: "Ok :("
Isn't that the Skaven way?
Not sacrifice but population control.
Brothers in arms...huh...That is kinda foreign to Skaven
@@huntermad5668 Well, not really in clan mors, like ain't it the only clan with "loyal" rats in it?
@@mocod_2402 Loyal....for the Skaven that is.
@@omikamiz568 Yeah, I know, loyalty in the skaven is not that high (like inexistant), but you gotta admit, it's in clan mors that there is the most loyalty
@@mocod_2402 No, that is Clan Eshin. They're together in loyalty to promote the disloyalty of other clans.
You know what would be a fun mod? A "WAAAGH"-style additional army attached to every Skaven army, that slowly fills up with Skavenslaves.
You're in luck, that exact mod exists! I use it currently
@@Spitz643 what mod is that?
@@MrFrazld Make swarm factions great again (using WAAAGH mechanic) on the steam workshop
@@nephetep7582 thanks man gotta try that one.
@@Spitz643 Wow! Thanks I'll check it out.
I love how personally Legend takes getting sent a disaster battle with stormvermin
He is right ...but quiek has the 50% upkeepcost buff so its not such a big deal
He definitely comes in with an extra 20% energy
Still waiting for someone to make a "but Legend" compilation.
MCDLXXXVIII you shut your mouth Timmy
Or a "Legend is a Skaven " Complation
"but Legend, silver helms are really good cav units...". Guys, what you don't understand is, no matter how good a cav is, it is still a cav unit which doesn't really perform well in this game... they're no mages or artillery
I actually despised playing as Skaven but after watching so many videos of yours about how to properly play them, they've become my #2 favorite race for me after the Druchii.
Couldn't agree more. Legend totally flipped me on Skaven, I love those little bastards now.
Eww Druchii, agh aaagh. If you couldn't learn how to play skaven without Legend you don't deserve their power. I've been playing skaven before they were even good with the clan skryre dlc. (Am joking btw, except that last part.)
I still don't get them. The winds of magic are never enough for more than 3 vermin tides and then im fucked because the stegadons are making chopped meat out of my weapons teams
@@pain002 this is why I late game still sometimes have like 2 stormvermin halberd in a army that if there is to many large monster or cav in the waves that come at you. You have something to tie those things down for your weapon teams to relocate and then your pull the storms back or send a hero at it and then blast it to shreds.
I hate both Druchii and Skaven
"Noooooo you can't just run away from our melee specialist while he gets shot!!"
"Haha rattling guns go brrrrrrrrr"
Fun fact, when queek is maxed out, stormvermin only cost 54g upkeep per turn, but Clanrats cost 1g per turn. You can bring 580 clanrats for the cost of a single stormvermin.
Legend being rude-mean to stormvermin! Clan mors will remember yes-yes
Yes-yes not stab-stab in back-back me promise-swear.
They really gotta make adjustments to difficulty in warhammer 3 so more than 1 playstyle can be used and you can actually use the full roster
yea i think stormverim were okey before the skryer dlc, as once we got the big weapons teams like jazzels and ratling gunners male infantry became useless as they would get in the way of gunner teams so having summoners instead meant you dont need to heal those infantry units as they despawn and you can position them behind enemies too so gunners keep shooting
@@ErrorGameManiac "melee Infantry"
Play the map at high difficulty and the battle at normal. It'll save you a lot this problem. Sure, you'll still be fighting outnumbered, but your units will actually preform like they should. The higher difficulties in battles does not affect the AI.
If you just play on normal battle difficulty without AI cheats than most army comps become viable. LOTC just prefers the highest effectiveness armies w/o fluff
@@Rafael_Fuchs Stormvermin are still shit on normal difficulty. One thing doesn't change: they obstruct your ranged fire.
legend's contempt for stormvermin is the content that keeps me coming back
I'm kinda stupid at times, so I always took Queek as the exception of Stormvermin recruitment since he has so many different buffs for them. But the army loss penalty and how much the game weighs stormvermin does make a whole lot more sense. Thanks for the informative video!
7:20 Legend: Wooow look at those Stormvermin *mock voice* "but Legend they were fighthing trolls that's bot fair"
Me: Incorrect. They were fighting the plagueclaw fire.
Catapult's Crew: What-What?? I only see-musk deatg corpses
The funny thing is, Skaven in Fantasy operate the same as Imperial Guard in 40K: the infantry can die in droves as long as the guns do the heavy lifting. In 40K a human is about as much worth as a rat in fantsay; talk about grimdark... ;-)
Stormvermin are useful in multiplayer, especially in the skaven mirror matchup where they have shields and can munch an infinite amount of skavenslaves, and the halberds make short work of any flankers except for death runners, not great but can be a tech piece
"Benjamin Turnbull here and today we've got a seven year disaster battle.."
i wonder how legend play as skaven before ikit dlc came.
He didn't. He used to hate skaven.
How to play skavens without dlcs is a good question really.
@@xenaro4761 halberds + hellpits + ogres + death runners + plague priests, you can rush down anyone and anything (except on legendary battle difficulty maybe)
My second campaign was vanilla Skaven. Basically plagueclaw catapults and plague priests.
@@th5154 that would be a very shitty army on very hard and legendary difficulty
If you dont cheese with Skaven you are playing them wrong
Genetically mutated ratmen + cheese = Profit
What legend means is: in combat stormvermin are just a little bit better than skavenslaves. But if you take a cheese army into auto-resolve you will be obliterated, stormvermin are usefull so you don't have to manually resolve every battle.
Legend is doing the great horned rats work, and one day when the great ascendency occurs, and skaven rule all they see, Legend shall be there at his side.
GW : "oh boy i hope no one notices our lack of focus on basic infantry balance"
totalwar : *your barn door is open.*
as much as I agree infantry is shit in this game....... this video isn't really representative of that. OF COURSE infantry melts when it's fighting 30 enemy units and getting pelted by its own artilery.
You know the world is going to crap when the skaven give a "Public Health Announcement"
i never played skaven until i discovered how to properly play them. Quickly learned i need the dlc now they are one of my favourite factions.
The moment Legend get excited by the Ratling Guns always warm my heart.
in my experience skaven slaves do get the same results as stormvermin, if your micro is on point, since they last like 3 seconds on the harder difficulties. So when you have 5 APM or just want to watch a few seconds of the fight, stormvermin or clan rats are preferable because they take longer to die
Stormvermin is the way to go if you’re all out role playing as QUEEK HEADTAKER YES YES
Recently finished a Skaven mortal empires campaign for the first time, on very hard, using Legends general tactics. Mid game and on armies were - Lord, 4 Plagues priests, 1 assassin, 6 ratling guns, 8 plagueclaw catapults. Any army, no matter how elite, just melted away to the withering fire, and anything that managed to get close had endless waves of Vermintide and menace below summons to chew through. The assassin, while mostly there to give army replenishment, ended up having something like 86 attack, and could destroy any pesky hero that was hiding from the ratling guns.
It took me 4 frustrated attempts over the years at trying to play Skaven normally before i finally accepted how they are best played. Prob my favourite race now, so, cheers to you Legend.
Probably the dude was trying to roleplay and has a lot of stormvermin in his army because of lore reasons. I also want to try it after my Ikit campaign, but i recon it will be quite a challenge even on hard difficulty
If he was lore-RPing he'd have like 2 units of Stormvermin as bodyguards max.
@@nekrovulpes are stormvermins that valuable in lore ?
It's very doable on hard, I've taken the entire world edge mountains without too much hassle (other than from thorgrim) with stormvermin rp armies, pretty fun too. You kinda need to change your perception of skaven into that of an imperial shield wall line with artillery firing over tbh haha
@@TheDinofou Yeah they kinda were, mostly for their loyalty and bodyguards for Skaven lords. Unless you were Clan Rictus or some what Mors, there weren't many of them in battle.
@@TheDinofou yeah in lore they really rare skavens, who have something, that can very very hardly, but called a honour. Skaven-honour... or whatever... But they are really rare ultimately elite bodyguards of "13 council"
Legend: "No one wants to fight to the death"
Literally all lizardmen: "you all hear sum?"
In my Ikit claw playthrough (merely on hard) I arrived at something close to a Legend-approved army as my favourite. The main difference was, I had a few more Jezeals than Ratling Guns, as I found them getting more kills overall thanks to their long range and accuracy, and that I would only have 2 Plague priests/seers, and use several Hell Pit Abominations as my front line. The latter was also because I don't have the DLC for Poison Wind mortars, so I needed something that was useful in siege attacks.
I also thought that stormvermin are a way to go if you want to protect your weapon teams, but no, I probably killed more of them with ratling guns and poison wind mortars than my enemies did.
"Benjamin Turnbull here, and today we've got a seven-year-disaster battle"
8:54 When Legend embraces his inner Skaven
Really enjoy these instructional videos, cheers Legend.
14:22 - Oh come on Legend! That is so very un-skaveny :P
I did laugh at how legend said that you have to understand the ways of the skaven, and then was worried about the friendly fire!
But only against the Plague Priest. If it was against any melee infantry unit, no shits given. The teams hit the Plague Priest? Waste of warpstone. The teams hit a "friendly" Clanrat/Skavenslave/Stormvermin/Plague Monk? A tolerable miss.
@@AidanDracole Oh absolutely, but it was just the irony that amused me
This vid is a good tutorial on how to play Skaven. I've done almost all the Skaven campaigns and even I learned something here.
Skaven and Legend sitting in a tree R-A-T -L-I-N-G
first comes slaves, then comes bullets..
Legend becomes more and more Skaven-like with every Skaven video, yes-yes.
Stormvermin are useful. They are for absorbing cavalry charges etc in the flanks and that's basically it- But in the hands of your average player, the Skaven really need that. A skaven army without that can just be totally hard countered by anything fast. Don't think of them as elite troops, think of them as guards.
The real reason Stormvermin are shit is actually just a weird quirk of this game's three tier infantry system and 20 unit stack limitation- You are incentivised towards only using the "best" units in your armies because you are limited to 20 units, and punished for having more stacks. The tabletop game uses a point system, meaning multiple units of cheap troops can be used in place of a single unit of elite troops.
Total War needs to ditch the 20 unit limit and replace it with something more granular.
Trust me, I'm an actual Skaven.
The AI loves to send cav out early before the rest of the army. This way you can either intercept them with your lords or heros while your ranged units kill them or just bog them down with summons. Yes, someone who doesnt know what they are doing they will get wiped out but someone who does know, they will just murder everything. I learned from Legend that sending out your heros early and harass them is absolutely great for the skaven. It bogs the AI down, makes them shoot and not move their ranged units, literally buys you even more time to pepper them from range. And every 10 second that you delay the AI will rake in massive kills. Skaven are just that great at taking out units from range and every 10 second you get weakens them massively.
@@ShinForgotPassxXx Yeah, that's part of my point- For someone who knows how to cheese the AI these units are of little use, but that's an AI problem, not a unit problem. If you are lactose intolerant or... I don't know... Playing against a human, none of that shit works.
The thing between Clan Rats & Skavenslaves vs. Stormvermin is that Stormvermin stack is only good for rushing a settlement's walls and then you can basically hope you win the siege, same with a death runner stack.
Clanrats (with a tech) and Skavenslaves are EXPENDABLE however, so when they die they do not affect anyone other than other expendable units which don't matter, because they are expendable, Stormvermin are not expendable, they die and then you get army losses and lose.
And yes, Stormvermin & Death Runner stacks are a option but for siege battles or battles overall you'd rather have rattlings, globadier mortars, warp lightning cannons, plagueclaw catapults and plague priests, preferably if you want a marathon fighter army that can beat many armies on it's own, you should preferably use Ikit Claw, or at least start with Ikit Claw to get the Clan Skryre benefits.
However, being Clan Skryre but confederating and using Lord Skrolk as the lord of the army is a very viable option, you get 3 plague priests with price of 2 basically, or 2 for 1 and with that 1 extra slot in your army you can get more artillery or rattlings or mortars or whatever you fancy, warplock engineer is also a good choice.
the gauntlet has been thrown down. Tretch Craventail marches with a stack of nothing but stormvermin to quash this "legend" upstart. He's not afraid of you; he can run-flee faster!
youtube outdone itself
"benjamin rurnbull here and today we're got a seven-year disaster battle playing as quick head taker going up against grim girls odd boys..." lol
The relevant stats Stormvermin have over skavenslaves are: Armour, Leadership, Melee Defense.
This means that they take a lot longer to break and can absorb a lot more damage before breaking. This makes them somewhat workable as flank guards for your gunline. Skavenslaves take the initial assault and get shot to pieces by friendly fire because who cares, while stormvermin guard your gunline from flank charges long enough for you to deal with the guys in front of you and swing your weapons teams around for flank fire.
If you're noticing that's an incredibly niche use, congratulations, you've noticed that Stormvermin are crap!
This is basically what I use them for. I use a few units of halberds usually to stop cavalry, flying units and monsters from getting into them.
“Benjamin turn bull here”
"Benjamin Thurnbull here,"
thanks youtube captions
I bet the popularity of Stormvermin is largely thanks to Vermintide really endearing a lot of people to them. Everybody remembers their iconic "HEE! HAW! HEE! HAW!" that they make while patrolling...and how they **** even experienced teams up if they're not careful.
It just feels wrong to not use the skaven elite infantry that are stormvermin, especially when the faction leader's trait is pro stormvermin. Also seeing this from the tabletop miniature game viewpoint where stormvermin are the elite infantry. It's CA's fault though that we are forced into army comps where elite infantry have no place.
youre only forced into that if you play on high difficulties. The problem with that is AI gets alot of cheats in battles to make them harder, therefor some units are rubbish for the player as a result.
Normal is where AI doesnt get any bonuses so if you have infantry that can beat some other infantry then in battle it should always do so without external help. On legendary its like the cheapest dwarven infantry unit can beat chaos chosen in battle... or its equal, which it shouldnt be.
The problem isn't with Stormvermin, but with Melee Infantry in general in Total War: Warhammer
- No! you cannot sit in the corner of the map. Fight, coward!
- ha ha ratling-gun do BTRRRRRR!!! yes-yes
I used to play this game in honest-decent way, but after watching this channel for some time now, I've learnt to have fun cheesing-outsmarting the IA yes yes. I'd sent you my disaster campaings but as a follower-slave of the great nightlord, that just doesn't happen.
The "shrine" of plague priest (yeah i know it's not good at all) also have a breath spell (without magic cost!), that can be used nearly (about ~30 meters), don't forget it, Legend, on unarmored infantry that deal nice free damage %)
"They don't last long... But you.. but no rat unit lasts very long so they last as long as they need to" that's 10/10 accurate 😂
'Watch out for friendly fire!' said no skaven ever.
In my Skrolk campaign I planned to keep a few units of plague monks (the player needs 4 units for a quest) in order to have a thematic army, since they cost 45 upkeep per turn only at the end of Skrolk's blue line.
But then I needed jezzails and mortars for sieges, and the monks upkeep was 4 times bigger if I transfered them in another army, so bye bye Plagueguard.
I'll definetely keep a couple of stormvermin in a army lead by Queek though, since he needs less firepower.
Done three full map completions with clan Skryre, on legendary. The only time I recruited melee infantry( excluding heroes) was just at the start, when I physically didn't have a weapon team building. Seriously, the Ratlings *are* the front-line. With inherent speed debuff on hit, and poison from the plague priest, you do NOT need infantry. Like, at all. Doomwheels, heroes - yes, but no infantry. Even for generic Warlock lords.
its less you dont need and more like rat infantry is so shit every race basically has better which is sad as why even have the units lol I never recruit clan rats or higher :D slave rats all the way never need to make a better building settlement building is enough even early game slave rats are not bad vs lizards if you just suround lizards and inflict flank dmg
@@ErrorGameManiac No, it is exactly that, you do *not* need infantry as Skaven no matter how strong they would be (which they are not, but this in not the point). Even if their infantry were able to take Ironbreakers/Chaos Chosen. Because, you have so much *really* good stuff in Skaven roster, like Lightning cannons, Warplocks, Poisonwind Mortars, Ratling Guns (duh), Warlock engineer for ammo/missile strength/ range upgrades, Plague Priest for winds of magic generation and Bless With Filth spells. And will all above mentioned, you just do not have a space for boring infantry. You just repel enemy on approach, because your artillery have so much range/damage and speed debuff from BwF, and your Ratlings have over 1k dps, it is not even funny. Again, on VH battle difficulty, I kid you not, just try it.
"I understand scaven"
No. You're a scaven Legends...
Benjamin turnbull playing against grim girls and odd boys
When i played skaven as ikit (my most very early games) i just realised that strmvermin are too expencive when o can just have clanrat spears hold the enemy while my backline deleted everything. And ikit helped by blobing units around and randomly zapping them in his 1 wheel motorbike.
ASMR legend bullies queek headtaker for 20 minutes
I personally prefer using clanrats spears & shields to skavensaves, better melee defense and armor means they last longer holding the line, and they don't get ripped to shreds by missile fire because of the shields.
finally some ratpower
Yes-yes.
"oh you know it's not too bad, look they've got like 40 million defenses pretty good"
"hight stats"
-LegendofTotalWar, 2020
Melee*
'' We should have a balanced army with melee and ranged units''
Skaven weapon team go Brrrrrr
2:58
*confused Ungrim grumbling*
This video's intro is a good one for the closed caption compilation.
Legend is CLAN RITCUS SUPREME!
Public health? Skaven? You gotta pick one there Legend
"Skaven win through bullshittery" says the guy who wins every battle with every faction through bullshittery.
always play stormvermin, you dont play them for stats you take them for style. just look at their shinny armor and helmets they are adorable (like rats in general)!
His intro with the captions hahaha. Legend of total war here...captions says Benjamin turnbull lmao
To be fair I have managed to make storm vermin work before but I mostly use them when i am building army’s around themes or putting them a my assassin army to use as bate and guard the artillery
This just shows the strength of the skaven. Ratling guns just delete everything off the battlefield. The whole 18 minutes are nothing but a showcase on how to play Skaven.
If they added better AI instead of bullshit stat buffs for higher difficulties , stormvermin would maybe be quite good. But the truth is they need to be reworked in general, maybe nearly unbreakable could work, but would be against lore even tho these are elites. I guess stat boosting would be the best choice then. Maybe an aura around stormvermin that makes other units fight better. So if you have a unit of stormvermin all clanrats around them fight better, slaves become unbreakable because of fear of the stormvermin maybe. And the more stormvermin units there are nearby the higher the bonuses to leadership and melee defense/attack they get. Making them supporting frontline would probably make them viable.
that would be busted very fast stormvermin are in a decent niche position
the reason legend hates them is he plays a mode where everything melee related gets nuked to oblivion cause CA give the ai the mental capability of a 3 year old
@@thehistorians5231 I must infer that THE FIRST thing ive said was that stormverin WOULD BE GOOD if the AI didnt get superbuffed melee in harder difficulties. We are in agreement here and i was throwing out ideas just for discourse. Thank you for the feedback anyway.
@@okupant880 yeah exacly but "Unbreakable skavenslaves in a AOE" would be busted real quick im all for buffing stormvermin if need be but not making them perhaps the best infantry in the game
if you want sturdier skavenslaves bring a grey seer on a bell + the censor bearer ROR
Legend in streams: Play how you want, fun is fun.
Legend here: BaD aRmY REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
From now on I'm calling him Benjamin Turnbull
I can’t wait for the day the AI skaven tries to send an army of Stormvermin against him.
His disgust would be the legendary but the battle would be one sided.
Counterpoint: i like them
But for real I’ll be making huge use of this info, great stuff.
Legend actually does a really good Skaven voice lol
honestly i use the skirmishers from the echin build path for my front because i also get assassins for sniping lords and heroes or alternatively the skavenslaves with slings cuz you might as well
I tried Stormvermin once, then after watching them preform i thought to myself "ratling guns" and never used stormvermin again
"Ratling Guns fuck" -Legend, probably
I love your description on how to skaven and how they work
"win by bullshittery"
thats exactly correct they are so bullshit
That was a Skaven for dummies. Thank you
Hahahahaha those some words I've never heard in a sentence together "stormvermin" and "useful"
i mat not have played skaven before but if you at least know a bit (i know much) about their lore and also how expendable units work it is really a no brainer that they NEED to have units that will take the beating and even die-die. while the stormvermin belong to the specialist category along the gutter runners,plague monks e.t.c. what i don't get is why did you made an army filled with them.
If you TRULY understand skaven you ofcourse get a stormvermin unit. No need for more then one or 2, but nothing better then a stormvermin to deal with the scraps after weopens teams have done their work and inevitably have to stop firing due to lack of ammo or line of sight bs. What is left by then? Not skaven slaves who break at the mere sight of the enemy, not plague monks who have used up all the magic already, not your heroes who are already on low health... But there is, if you have payed attention, a full health stormvermin ofcourse held in reserve, because you truly understand skaven...
Doomwheels or doomflayers do better. Stormvermin would've been useful in sieges if there had been no plague spell.
Storm Vermin are fun and thematic to use. It's certainly harder to use them.
Someone should do a legend skaven moment comp
the more legend plays this game the more he sounds like actual skaven
Came for the video stayed for the army loss explanation
In fairness, Skaven really did suck when the game first released. They didn't become good until the Ikit Claw update dropped with Jezails and Ratling guns.
They should have a "ignore friendly fire" for Skaven
If not on legendary difficulty Stormvermin are okay to get in Queek's army. Aside from that one single case they're useless.