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How To Manage The Far Right | Helle Thorning-Schmidt, First Female Prime Minister of Denmark
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- Опубліковано 15 сер 2024
- How can we unite the extreme right and extreme left? What impact can small countries have on global politics? How was the former Danish Prime Minister influenced by New Labour?
Rory and Alastair are joined by Denmark's former Prime Minister, Helle Thorning-Schmidt, to discuss all this and more.
00:00 Intro
02:50 What’s different about Danish politics?
05:57 The influence of Borgen
08:31 Working with the far right and left
10:51 The uncomfortable challenges in Denmark
13:56 Marrying into the Kinnocks
16:14 How to fight the left of your party
19:39 Helle’s advice for Rishi Sunak
21:15 Having an English husband
22:21 What Denmark thinks of Britain & Brexit
29:00 Boris Johnson’s world beating
30:37 Trust and Social Media in politics
39:57 The risks of politics
41:50 The trans debate in Denmark & The UK
45:05 Brexit and trying to find the middle ground
47:15 Helle’s journey from politics, to NGOs, to business
49:22 Helle started Rory and Alastair’s friendship?
51:09 Debrief
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I'm so oversaturated with political commentary at this point that I find myself surprised how much I enjoyed this conversation. Thanks for that😊
I feel you.
Great comment felt by many I think.
As a Dane i Love this episode It is so good at explaining the Danish culture, and talking about compromise
Helle Thorning-Schmidt is right to defuse extremists despite how distasteful it may be personally you need to engage with extremists.
Left or Right extremists appeal to those who are suffering equality.
Deliver a fair share of wealth extremists' appeal diminishes.
In modern European countries the left is often well educated moderately high income people...
One of the best episodes so far! What an incredible person and the personal connections made the conversation so enjoyable. Maybe a good pick for first repeat guest at some point?
What a great human-level chat between 3 special people
27:05 Here is Britain's main problem...as a Brit living in a northern European country, it's obvious that the UK is holding itself back by old fashioned thinking. Modernise and Improve should be the key words for its future.
Amazing person
I agree with the below comment 👍 ! As a Dane and in my opinion, Helle was a GREAT PM ❤
It's very refreshing to hear a politician who think about politics in a positive way and about wanting to reach a sensible compromise. I can't help but feel, though, that only a small, wealthy nation can afford to think like this, where things went well for the last 500 years or so. There is a reason why Denmark could become the poster child of a well functioning social democracy, and it's partly due to its location.
It's also very disappointing to hear someone minimise the problems social media and the level of centralisation in the attention economy cause, especially from someone on the Meta Oversight Board. I hope there are people on that board who are more critical of how social media distorts our lives. I was also surprised to hear that Alistair did not talk about this at all. In other episodes he often talks about the negative effects of social media on politics. Maybe bring on fewer old friends, if you're just going to have a friendly chat without challenging them on any point they bring up out of courtesy?
The last 500 years have not gone that well for Denmark. Just to mention a few: We lost Sweden when the Kalmar Union broke up. We lost the 30 year war twice(once on both sides). We lost core parts of Denmark to Sweden (Scania, Halland and Blekinge) in the great nordic wars. We lost Norway after the Nepolionic wars. We lost half the remaning population in 1864 to the Prussians. We had to sell off our colonies ealier when we ran out of money and Iceland left os while we were occupied by the Nazies. The past 500 years have not been story of success, but of only having the very core of the land and people left. This does give us a very homogenous population and this make it easier to create a high tax welfare state I think. I dont think that 500 years of things going our way is the reason Denmark is prosperous today. At least, I cant see it.
@@jtm5958 Okay I'm wrong about Danish history, I accept what you're saying but the rest of my argument still stands. Denmark is a small, wealthy country today, and it's easy to feel positive about politics and to strive for compromises partly because of its homogeneity that you mention. The UK by contrast is anything but homogeneous, even England is not homogeneous.
@@Muddrelks Homogeneity and size is not so important, i think. It helps to be small and homogeneous, but being able to change and modernize society's structures is important in a changing world. And to do this is difficult and needs a lot of compromises.
@@asbjoernk.5695 I still think homogeneity is an important part of it. If a country is more culturally homogeneous that narrows the width of societal discourse. It narrows the Overton window if you like, or at least makes sure that the window is roughly the same for all demographic groups. This makes compromises easier, because you have to bridge smaller potential gaps.
@@asbjoernk.5695I think a homogeneous population is something the uk has never had since the days when the celts invaded us AND we have been extremely successful in the past. In fact the diverse population was exactly what made the Empire the great power it was.
You have bee in your bonnet about this and need to look past it. As somewhat of a Heinz 57 person myself with family roots going back to the 1600.s my generation is the most successful it has ever been. It is very probably the mix of populations within my generation that has allowed for our success.
Politically our extended family embraces all sides and though we each would wish the others would agree more with us it does mean that a Reform voter is as welcome into our family as a Corbyn supporter. It stops the demonisation of people with different political views.
I would argue you whole point is not only wrong but is looking at it from a series of wrong assumptions.
Having a labour government gives me hope
Married a Kinnock. Switched off.
Won't do you any good as long as you have first to the post voting.
I love the occasional Estuary in her speech.
Tak Helle, du var et fantastisk forbillede. Thank you so much Helle, for being a row model for women in general ❤
Super interview, fascinating, congrats both for bringing her on. As in your wrap-up, very interesting comments on the differences between Denmark and the UK. Great stuff.
Thank you Mike
That was fantastic. Genuinely fantastic.
Totally agree with Helle putting the responsibility of Brexit at Cameron’s feet. He had the opportunity to prove that the EU can be reformed in the country’s interest, and squandered it. Forfærdeligt.
He probably got carried away by the success of the Scottish independence referendum which went Cameron's way... assuming Brexit would go the same way. Even Farage thought he'd lose.
You are forgetting Cameron tried to negotiate a better deal and the EU gave him crumbs. The EU is a Franco-German axis.
I always find the most interesting political discussions, are those that involve former politicians, rather than sitting ones. More honest and open minded, able to look at their roles in a much clearer way, than might have been possible when shackled by the weight of responsibilities of office, pending votes on policies or legislation. This lady was truly a breath of fresh air. Interesting observations of the benefits of proportional representation. A very positive voice indeed. Thanks for inviting her on your podcast.
I so wish GB would learn from the Scandanavian peoples. They're simply rooted in COMMONSENSE..... Theres a million words we could use to describe them but I feel they all boil down to common sense when all is said and done.
This is a good one, I don't know much about her in fairness but she comes across very well. The standout for me was her assessment of GB, she nails it perfectly..... Always looking back, delusional, essentially smallminded and fearful (although she communicated it far more politely).
Pistachio Ice-cream is great - Rory, he's wrong again....
You really need to bone up on the reality of life in Scandinavia. Massive problems of social upheaval and crime -particularly against women -as a direct result of mass migration. She is another deluded Liberal pretending the tide isn't coming in. As for your self-hating description of GB: if it's so bad, why does the world and his wife want to come here? The delusion is all on the left. Biden had only just got senile; he was a better president than Trump; Labour will fix the economy; multiculturalism works; letting prisoners out of already soft sentences will help crime rates; Net Zero delusion has no effect on our massive energy bills. Speaking of which . . .did you know Denmark built 5,000; windmills, then stopped, having realised they don't work and you need to build conventional power stations as back up?
Wrong.
lol, Europeans claiming the UK is leaving in the past.
@@CmdrTobs The UK lives so firmly in the past, its practically still Victorian..... Its embarrassing.
?? How?? I genuinely don't see it.
On the contrary I'd argue the UK is generally first in embracing modern patterns of living and a lot of our issues stem from this.
My research says that circa 2022 Denmark lowered their tax burden from 47% of GDP to 42%.
Really big drop, and totally unparalleled in the OECD. Denmark gave up their spot as highest taxers in the OECD to France at 46%, Norway at 44%, and Austria, Finland and Italy at 43%. But they still sat at 6th highest.
Then consider that we raised our tax burden at the same from 34% to 35%.
The United States, the apparent paragon of a developed 'low tax' nation, rose from 26% to 27%.
So when people call us a 'high tax nation', keep some perspective. We're in the middle, and we have room for manoeuvre.
Problem number 1) People add % together. 2) People don't understand tax brackets. 3) People don't calculate or consider all the deductions (like the first-money earned is tax free) In Denmark, every adult worker pays 8% baseline tax (Not pensioners, youthworkers etc) then you pay 37-38% Municipality tax. After that, there are more tax brackets for the top 10%.
Including deductions, 35% of my paycheck goes to taxes. Next raise I get, I end up in the 10%. But I just contribute that towards pension and I stay in the lower bracket.
Denmark also does not have multiple, extra income taxes, it's all taken out the paycheck for employees. Like, UK council tax, which is separate.
In Denmark my salary is twice as much after tax, than it was in the UK. The salaries in the UK are awful.
Taxation = civilisation. You can have as much or as little as you want. US and other low tax countries have public squalor private affluence. France and other high tax countries have great healthcare and other services. Take your pick.
Have lived in DK for +25 years and I clearly remember the day after she became PM. She hadn't even got her feet under the desk yet, but the print media were vicious. I remember thinking , "Seriously guys, it's the 21st century and you still can't accept a woman running the country?" 🤔🙄
It's not about that she is a woman but about she isn't a social democrat, it was not her that was the prime minister, only by name, it was a finance minister by the name of Bjarne Corydon who decided it all.
Bjarne Corydon has been CEO and responsible editor-in-chief of the right-wing newspaper Børsen since 2018. Before that he was a partner at McKinsey and head of the McKinsey Center for Government, a real social democrat or what?
Here in Denmark there is the left wing called red and the blue right wing and the nickname of Corydon is blue Bjarne, aka. rightwing Bjarne, a real social democrat or what? not at all! only by name
The greatest truth on this podcast happens towards the end. How true you are Rory 57:50.
Another great leading interview! Helle was very inspiring and came across so thoughtful and intelligent!
If only she had done so as a PM,......
@@user-pt1ow8hx5l Præcis, hun er lige så nepotistik som resten af dem.
I enjoyed everything about this podcast besides the social media chatter. She is obviously compromised on that subject.
shill
Well, I do follow you some of the way, but HTS also has a point in that SoMe makes participation possible for everyday-man
Perhaps the modern rendition of the cardboard box on Hyde Park Corner
I listen to this podcast all the time. Much love and appreciation from South Africa 🇿🇦
As a Danish UK graduate,........ I have never forgotten the old pub joke: Yeah, Kinnock is wise, thoughtful, caring, intelligent, beautiful. TOO BAD WE'RE STUCK WITH HER HUSBAND!!!!
It’s all digital in the Netherlands too. I agree. The lack of trust is literally slowing all modern development and squashing new ideas.
The problem with most social media platforms is that they are controlled by for profit companies. I would prefer to see the UN endorse and support platforms like Mastadon, an open source twitter like solution. In addition, mandating interoperability and portability of data would benefit everyone, including those in oppressed countries.
It is having those mature and sensible conversations and compromise is the name of the game!
Absolutely superb podcast.
What an inspirational podcast. Thank you.
Great interview. I think I learnt a thing or 2 from this. Build bridges not walls!
The only bridges she built was for her own futures sake, not for the danish people.
She is just as nepotistic and corrupt as all the other politicians.
Sunak no way understood, or understands anything except his self entitlement.
Watch his old interviews, and comments.
He didn't even have to work hard to become prime minister. It was pure luck that as Chancellor he got to dish out free money, giving him popularity. His wealth I'm sure helped him in backroom dealings.
His lack of understanding was and is astounding.
This is so Borgen ( Brilliant Danish Political saga broadcast on BBC / Netflix ). Brilliant people ( and accents) the Danes, like a better version of the British.
Great conversation. Helle is right on the money. Refreshingly fair and sound viewpoints, on society, nostalgia and future thinking. Thank you leading.
"through the 50s and 60s 70s everything just got better all the time"... Almost like you can map the *decline* to when mainstream neoliberalism was adopted by Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan 👀 Brilliant interview.
Helle Thorning-Schmidt; a wonderful person.
Why is the title just 'How to Manage the Far Right' when she talks equally about extreme left and right? It would be more accurate to entitle it 'How to Manage the Political Extremes' or 'How to Manage the Far Left and Right'. But you know, of course, that your rabid listeners don't want to hear about the extreme left. They're only interested in handwringing about the right (and anything right of Rory is, of course, far right).
You can really tell the difference in attitude they have towards her and Denmark vs how they interviewed Leo Varadkar.
this is such an admirable woman
Great interview, and Rory is totally spot on about pistachio icecream!
Another great episode. Loved Helle and off to follow her on IG!
Rory is so, so wrong about pistachio ice cream. But, I did not even try sweet corn ice cream in Thailand.
Rory, I adore you, I appreciate you immensely. But you are absolutely wrong about the pistachio ice cream. It's one of the greatest little pleasures on this planet.
Absolutely need to talk about immigration
You didn't listen to this interview did you?
@@taekwanlewShe quickly brushed over the problems caused by it, almost solely blaming it on right wing extremists.
I loved the interview on so many levels, but I’m finding the revelation that Rory hates pistachio ice-cream really jarring and packaging it as wisdom to be handed down the generations completely at odds with the tone of building bridges 😆
One thing I would add to the ideas around social media: it is true that we have the power to guide the algorithm by saying I don't want to see this topic, or show me more of this etc. However, by and large people are not willing to go through the effort required to curate their social media feeds to that effect, they go into it just to escape for a little bit. I do get the irony that by not curating it then it's not really providing a good escape. As a result of this, many people end up engaging with provocative posts anyway and so even if your own feed is curated, the 'trending' feed is never far from the surface.
I love Iranian Pistachios. Never forget the crispy dried figs and sea salt roasted sunflower seeds. Perfect.
Ja selvfølgelig. Ingen påstod hun var lidt for Smart. Det er jo nærmest selvforklarende. At hun føler sig som et offer...
Interesting. The leading rightwing parties in Denmark actually READ 'the unfinished revolutions'. by Philip Gould. And put his work into practice, beating the labour party in two consequtive elections; 2001 and 2005. Didn't know our Helle was a close friend of the guy, Gould.
The shilling for Meta was too much - thanks for challenging her.
To "handle" the extreme right and left, you actually have to LISTEN to their gripes.. Just telling someone they are wrong will just make them more determined...
I enjoyed this greatly.
Very enjoyable and interesting 👍
Is Social Media to blame? Isn't it just an extension of gossip magazines and PR of both politics, business, and entertainment? When lying is used extensively, don't be surprised by the outcomes.
I think it's far worse because Social Media allows thousands of stories to be put out into the wild and the algorithms will quickly work out which is the best one to drive engagement through anger.
This wasn't true in the past with newspapers because there were fewer stories and it was a lot more difficult to work out which stories would capture the audience.
Somehow she became much more personable after she left politics.
Wonderful!
Omg she is awesome
Sadly, quite often, hate speech is being excused as Free speech. Free speech good. hate speech bad. How to allow one but stop the other?
She is an incredibly astute politician. She keeps Kinnock Jumior in line and thats a fact 😄
Brilliant
Awesome interview. I've never heard of Helle before. She is fabulous!
There is a really good interview by PoilticsJOE about trust in politics in his interview with Simon Kuper, it explains a lot about why politics is where it is and the ‘Good Chaps’ theory and why now Labour need to reform Westminster and the Lords. A good listen.
as a Dane i can respect Rory for being a trans-accepting (I hope I read this right or i will haunt him when i die), but i draw the line at smearing pistacchio icecream
Can you interview Jacinda Ardern ASAP please.
Take the temperature out of it but don’t deny the science. It doesn’t hurt to re-examine the old data and the new data because social contagion might well lead to affirmed self mutilation and lifelong chemical dependency.
Great interview. One of our best prime ministers
She is so lovely Boys
You did a good job Helle - we are proud of you in Denmark!!
I agree. She did a great job.
Simple: let the European people decide on their cultural future then the far right disappears
Who would have thought?
It's really not simple
What an amazing lady
Populism and social media comments spot on.
Whilst I'm not supportive of our current times - I am glad that there has been a consequence to decades of mainstreams feeding news according to their own agendas. Could this trigger a reform to report truth, not biaised views? Food for thought...
As parent to a trans kid myself, Helle is right. Our job isn't to tell them *what* they are, only to accept *who* they are. Our moral and ethical teaching is irrelevant to their gender or sexuality.
Thank you for accepting. So many don't. Thank you for being a beacon of hope in a world that is bogged down with the horror of widespread bigotry and hatred.
As a trans person myself thanks for your wise words
Astonishing that, at 30 minutes in, Helle talks of lack of trust in politicians, begins with postwar prosperity in the 50s, 60s and 70s, then Alistair instantly switches the conversation to social media, which only kicks in during the 2000s. Thus avoiding totally the watershed years - in British politics certainly - where you can see the oil crisis, and the Thatcherite response nurtures by the all-pervasive Rupert Murdochisation of the public discourse.
Was this instinctive on Alistair's part? As old friends, does he recognise the danger zone in her narrative? (As with the Second Vote debacle.) Did he even know he was doing it? Rewriting history? Because Blairism is very much part of the descent down this side of the mountain of mistrust in politicians.
"New" Labour slavishly absorbed Thatcherism's neoliberal economics (with a bit more social conscience) exemplified by continuing to destroy social housing amid booming "property portfolios"; cosying up to Murdoch; and jumping on board the Dick Cheney US global agenda. All covered from public view by Murdoch and skilful Campbell spin.
Lack of trust in politicians? Before social media, 2 million people had to flood the streets of London to make their voices heard. And said, loud and clear, "we don't believe our leader, we don't believe the world needs war in Iraq." And still they were ignored - so those millions stopped voting altogether.
Look at Labour's vote from 1997, when Murdoch changed horses and Labour won amid a torrent of tabloid Tory sleaze (which wouldn't cause a raised eyebrow today):
13.5m;
10.7m;
9.5m;
8.6m;
9.3m;
12.8m;
10.2m;
9.7m.
I wonder what could have caused that amazing return of millions of voters in 2017? Must have been a blip. No lessons about trust for Starmer to learn now that the slide has begun again. God help us all, given the populism of the Tory party he will lose to in five years' time.
Omg, Rory Stewart doesn’t like pistachio ice cream
At last, we have found a fault in a perfect man
Interestingly, what - to me - is the principle difference between the countries is the cultural element. Danes (like all nordics) have a MUCH more collegial, pragmatic and compromising attitude to their lives and their country. They are much less tribal. It is THAT which allows a system built on compromise. That would never work in Britain (at least not in the foreseeable future, and a week is a long time in politics!!)
Its only our first past the post electoral system that generates that tribality and its not really that strong...everyone always forgets that the two world wars were fought by coalition governments, the great depression was fought by a coalition government. UK really isn't that tribal.
I actually think the reason this podcast is so successful is because the practice of "disagreeing agreeably" is in such short supply in the UK and yet the demand for it is huge. Lots of people get their politics from a singular lense and co operation with other parties is rarely rewarded, and often chastised. The clearest example is Clegg during that coalition but there's doubtless many many examples if you look for them.
Well Helle.. the moment you became leader... the traditional party colours of Social Demokratiet became more and more blue instead of the colour RED and that kept on going up to now where Mette could easlily fly the same colours as the Conservatives.. All of EU laughed our ass of regarding Boris J...... vote for a clown, expect a circus... goes for Trump aswell
yeah, she´s so eloquent, charming and all that. But she should have stayed in the EU parliament. What her leadership of the social democrats did (and remember- she only won 1 (one) election) was to absorb, not deflect the immigration policies of the far right and make it mainstream- the result was that islamophobia is now an integrated part of mainstream danish political rhetoric. And what did she gain by it? was this the price to pay for enhancing the danish welfare system for everyone? no- she dragged S to the center where it still is and undermined labour unions, reduced unemployment benifits, pensions, social services, sold public utilities in one corruption scandal after another and it was so obvious that after 4 years the danes voted her out again, prefering a government that was openly lassei faire rather that pretend "socialist". BUt Im probably just a mysoginist for saying that
We have a NI number as well. If you buy a house of course all that is processed digitally does this lady think we are stuck in the stone age or something?
As a Norwegian who spent time in England. You are about a decade behind the Nordic countries (and many other) in using digital interfaces and other tools in communication with the public sector. Its so much easier in Norway than in the UK.
Examples are getting passports/VISA, doctor appointments, tax returns, prescriptions, applications for education or social serves, everything. The UK can save billions on modernizing this, and simultaneously provide BETTER services. That is what she is talking about.
I read somewhere that there were millions more active national insurance numbers in the UK than the working age population. Whether through fraud, administrative errors or laxity, I'm unsure. However, I think we need some kind of national identity card, which cross references NI numbers, passports, driving licenses, national health service number and even fingerprints. Information that's already out there in various disparate sources. In this digital age and particularly in response to identity fraud, we need a unified, fool-proof system. One that enables identity to be irrefutably established.
@@ianworley8169 "I read somewhere....". You are an adult. And you just wrote a fkign paragraph based on something that is clearly bullshit..
Pistacio is the 3rd best ice cream.
The healthcare system in Denmark is struggling because the liberal parties eroded the system. In stead of upgrading the national public healthcare system they gave a boost to the private health care system. The nurses have for the last 15 years demanded better pay and benefits, because their workload are increasing. Now a lot them are fleeing the public sector for the private health care system because the pay is better and if you have children the schedule works better for you. The current government have promised to fix the problem, but one of the minister in the coalition government is same one who created the problem. One example is that he build a lot of super hospital, while shutting down the local ones. In rural areas the commute to the nearest hospital is 80 km- and remember Denmark is small. After 4 pm the helicopter service is shut down, so the ambulance is far away.
I wish we could stop framing the trans debate as a conflict between trans people and feminists. Many, maybe even most feminists are tolerant of trans people and supportive of trans rights. It would be more accurate to say that this is is a conflict between trans people and trans-tolerant feminists against anti-trans feminists (and anti-trans bigots more broadly).
Britain is a tiny country. I think the parallel with Denmark is just fine. We have so much to learn. -- Online world is a skip fire; a failed state. Social media is totally regulated and stoking hate across the world. Her line on this is totally unconvincing. The question of how to manage the free speech is huge - social media is unpinning current populism boom. I think we need "a more boring world" talking sense, getting better sleep.
The UK is not a tiny country. I'm so annoyed every time I hear this (and it mostly comes from Brits). It's 67 million people, the 6th largest economy, and a cultural superpower. It's not a tiny country.
Denmark's economy is just over one tenth of the UK's, its population is one tenth too (how surprising). The UK is the 21st largest country by population.
Rory's gone right down in my estimation since his hate speech on pistachio ice cream.
😄 You put your finger on the real issue here. The rest was just filler. I love a good pistachio icecream too. At the wery best when it is hot outside. 😄💕👍
We need PR. But we'll never have it. Because we're idiots.
And rory Stewart has lived all around the Middle East
And still doesn’t like pistachio ice cream.
Omg. I hope he is not doing the Brit abroad, having fish and chips while in Jordan 😩🙈😂
If I was trans I'd want to distance myself from feminism nowerdays. What was a nessessary and positive movement has turned into a largely toxic and negative perspective
I thought she was a ginger.
Yes they are.
Helle did sugar coat a lot of things. Her party privatized a lot of big state run companies to the detriment of the Danish people. They also invited the far right and conspiracy nuts into the political arena, also to the detriment of the current society. From Helle's predecessors to her and the current prime minister the party has moved more and more to the right. Racism and islamophonia has been on the rise just like in England. The early soc dem were big proponents of the neo-con agenda and NPM, again to the detriment of our institutions and the cohesion of the country. So Helle is not a loved prime minister at all and some of her ministers are now members of the conservative party.
I’m sorry, she lost all credibility when she started defending social media. Not gonna bother listening to anything else she has to say. To sit there and say people have a choice what to see online and playing down the power of algorithms suggests naivety or a deliberate act to deceive.
Your 're the very person she spoke about. Instantly blaming social media ,with little to no understanding of what it actually is. If you has continue to listen you would have heard her say she didn't work for Meta, she is an independent board member who criticises Meta every day.
@@taekwanlew I didn’t say she worked for Meta, the guys introduced her as a member of the oversight committee at the beginning. Nor did I blame everything on social media. Downplaying the algorithms though and suggesting people have a choice is naive in my opinion.
Alastair for gods sake please take Rory’s batteries out for a bit . There’s two of you on this podcast.
"African leader" 🙄 she could have been more specific here, if she mentions Japan, France etc. Well, well.
She didn’t gift it to the African leader.
She did to the others.
Africa has 54 countries.
If i give wonderwall to 2 people and a fella on the bus tells me he likes wonderwall and i forget his name,
I don't think i deserve a well well.
Also the african leader may not like her advertising their watching of ungifted television.
"they're not all bigots and racists, some of them are normal people" its degusting the way these people think/talk.
That isn‘t way she meant it, as I am sure you know very well.
@@schnulloman thats exactly what she meant. thats why she said it.
@@purple_panther04 you clearly were not listening to everything she said if that is what you think.
"There are some fine people on both sides". 🙄
@@SirAntoniousBlock she didnt say that
Far-right is practically synonymous with bigotry. The whole point of it is that you have a very specific (usually socially conservative) view and won't accept anything else. What a bizarre proposition to suggest otherwise.
In western Europe 'far right' is almost universally used to refer to people opposed to immigration, no?
@@thereisnofridge5593 and in the US and everywhere else.
I thought the same! 😂
But to be fair, she is talking about politics from 2010 - back then the "far right" was a completely different animal than today. Especially in danish terms.
The vid title is just clickbait, which is not a good way to go about things. She just made one sentence about how to include people across the political spectrum, so they feel listened to and involved in governance. It's basically what many say about Trump and Farage - that resentment simmers when people feel excluded or feel their worries are ignored. The Greece PM said the same thing on TRIP, recently. He argued that the far right in Greece has fallen away when concerns are well addressed. Of course, it's not that simple because certain figures love to stir and their egos want to be in spotlight. But her line is one standard approach.
Nice interview and I don't doubt that Helle is a good person. But the reason why Helle is typically only grudgingly liked in Denmark, despite being our first female prime minister (when Scandinavian culture is VERY pro-feminist) -- is because she was and still is perceived as extremely socially aspiring and therefore willing to throw anyone under the bus in order to achieve that social ascension. That she is extremely good at coming up with excuses for herself and pretenses to open those social ascension doors to herself. And she does that clearly in this interview:
Helle states that she was met with an extreme amount of mysogyny -- when the actual criticism was that she was vain and consumerist (precisely "Gucci Helle") in a Social-Democratic party that has a tradition of the exact opposite. Helle presents the criticism of her marrying into one of the most influencial political families in the UK, as xenophobia against her husband -- which really is complete and utter nonsense, when the criticism was strictly directed at her own (apparent) social ambition (though their meeting in college, does actually sound perfectly plausible). Especially, since the UK was extremely influential in EU politics -- so it was even viewed (wrongly or rightly) as discarding Denmark as not being "influential enough" for her own ambitions. Likewise, the criticism of her husband being English, had nothing to do with "race" (even racist Danes do not consider the English another race) -- but instead that England is viewed as deeply dysfunctional and almost medieval due to its strict class system, and that Helle seemed to be climbing that medieval system with a deftness, that was diconscerting to a Scandinavian mindset (which extremely strongly emphasizes social equality). Helle's clear dependence on plastic surgery to stay young looking only adds to the image of her being vain and consumerist (would be the exact same if she was a man) -- because Scandinavian culture strongly emphasizes "standing by yourself" for BOTH men and women and therefore of aging naturally (in other words gender equalty, the exact opposite of mysogyny). All of the above things are diametrically opposite Social-Democratic values, which she purported to be a follower of ~ which made many Danes deeply suspicious of whether Helle was actually a Social-Democrat at heart, rather than of ambition (the Social-Democrats being the largest and most influential party in Denmark).
Indeed, Helle's assertion that Sunak "DOES understand poverty" would be considered absurd, and therefore viewed as apologist and (again) potentially socially aspirational to "cozy up" to Sunak and his social class -- because the cultural mindset in Scandinavia is extremely pragmatic. That is, it is taken as a matter of course, that if you haven't experienced something personally, then you do not know and you cannot know how it is -- and so you should always favor someone who does have firsthand experience. And since Helle herself does actually have firsthand experience of growing up poor -- it comes across as suspicious for her to be defending the very social class who (would be viewed as) having kept her and her family in poverty. In other words, again apparently sacrificing her own (original) social group for ascension into a more powerful one -- especially because Sunak has clearly and publically demonstrated his total lack of understanding, through his comments and policies, implying Helle has poor judgement (there's a very strong emphasis on factuality/objectivity in Scandinavian culture).
Yet in Scandinavian culture there is also an understanding (real cultural empathy) that growing up as poor as Helle did, can have a traumatizing effect on kids (Scandinavian culture is highly socially intelligent) -- making such kids extremely keen on status objects, material wealth and precisely outward appearance. And especially for a woman as beautiful as Helle clearly is, inclined to use their good looks to get ahead (which in Scandinavian culture is seen as men being dumb and superficial, rather than women being nefarious). Which is also why Helle is not hated, but considered a potentially quite flawed character (this is precisely THE main dividing line in the public view of Helle ~ fans think she is not, detractors think she definitely is).
In other words, what Helle presents here as mysogyny, xenophobia and a reactionary mindset in Denmark (a really quite suspect way to present usually progressive Denmark), is actually a strong dislike for materialism, social snobbery and physical vanity (quite positive cultural values). And because Helle is good at appearing forthright, approachable and matter-of-fact (which she genuinely also seems to be in many ways), she then also comes across to a lot of Danes as having poor self-insight and of being possibly quite manipulative (again culturally highly disliked characteristics).
Even shorter, Helle could be perceived as having just thrown the entire country of Denmark under the bus in this interview, to justify her own ascension.
And that's precisely why she's only grudgingly liked in Denmark, because she is considered somewhat disingenuous (lack of self-insight/self-control), somewhat disloyal (social opportunism) and therefore as being only situationally reliable (reliability being one of THE most core values in Scandinavian culture) -- despite being our first female primeminister (something we take real cultural pride in) and despite actually being considered quite competent as a professional person (very highly valued in Scandinavian culture).
fantastic summary
Interesting that Helle Thornong-Schmidt thinks Sunak does understand poverty - in which case her advice to him ought to have been about communicating that understanding better and showing empathy. Saying you couldn't have Sky as a child to people who are queueing in food banks and clothing their kids in charity uniform exchange schemes is hardly empathic - it's the opposite! It completely fails to demonstrate genuine understanding of the level of hardship people are actually ground down by and the impact of that.
I think you misunderstood her. I heard her say Sunaks biggest problem was that he didn't know what it is like to live in poverty.
She also did not say she didnt have Sky news, the gentleman at right said that. She just agreed.
I dont know exactly how poor Helles family were when she was growing up.
And I wil have to watch it again to see exactly what she says about Sunak.
Should ask her how she feels about being called Gucci helle. :P
little tax evasion for a prime minister who would ever know?!
Gucci Helle at 18:32
This is a good interview, but she wasn’t a very good prime minister. Too weak, too soft, too nice a person, really. Her government coalition couldn’t cooperate internally and she lost the next election.
And then we find out she works for Meta…..and then we understand.
Her life must be much easier without the burden of paying for and maintaining an independent nuclear deterrent.
£ 3,2 billion was the annual operational cost of nuclear deterrence in the UK in 2022.
The UK budget was 1,15 trillion. The cost is therefore 0,27% of the annual budget of the UK in 2022..
So tell me, how does this in any major way affect Britain's fiscal policy?
I am curious...
pathetic