Astute vs Virginia: Is Astute better than Virginia?
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- The Royal Navy and the US Navy deploy some of the world’s best modern attack submarines, designed to carry out specific maritime combat and defence operations. But which is better, the Royal Navy’s Astute class or the US Navy’s Virginia class?
#militarynews #submarine #astutevsvirginia - Наука та технологія
In 2012, during the joint exercise Fellowship, Astute performed simulated battles with the latest United States Navy Virginia-class submarine, USS New Mexico. Royal Navy Commander Iain Breckenridge was quoted, "Our sonar is fantastic and I have never before experienced holding a submarine at the range we were holding USS New Mexico. The Americans were utterly taken aback, blown away with what they were seeing". Source(s): Wikipedia, CNN, BBC.
Both are amazing subs, but iam going with the Astute-class. Not just because it is using the most powerfull sonar in the world currently, but the way how it looks. It looks like an apex predator.(In my opinion).
It uses a french sonar
The Astute class are phenomenal subs, unfortunately our shipbuilding capacity has been decimated over the last few decades, along with our defence budget!
thanks for the comment
Both Virginia and Astute are formidable and you wouldn’t want either chasing you down 🇬🇧🇺🇸
I would definitely agree with that statement.
Most of the work that these boats will be used for will be done at slow speed - and I mean really, really slow, 4kts or less.
Top end speed is only useful for torpedo evasion. Top end speed is detrimental to machinery and is used very sparingly. IF one of these SSNs needs to get to an area pronto then the usual expedient is to go early, using an SOA of 20kts (both types of SSN at 20kts would be just a rise in background noise in the ambient broadband, background noise of the ocean.
Both boats are exceptionally quiet in the broadband/wideband spectrum and even quieter in the narrow band spectrum. Both have an exceptional sensor suite, I think the Astutes sensor suite comes out ahead of the USN SSNs, as proven in the SUBTACEXs between the two navies.
The Spearfish torpedo is a fearsome weapon to have, it was only just coming in to service when I left and the buzz that we were getting from STWG and other sources said that once the usual 'minor' defects were ironed out, it was going to be fearsome indeed. This has now been proven out on the AUTEC ranges, the Spearfish mod 1? has now been accepted into service.
In the end, and has been said, it all comes down to cost, AND one other factor - the crew. Britain reigns supreme in its submarine crews, I know of what I speak, when push comes to shove and steely eyed 'can do' is needed then the 'go to service' is the Royal Navy Submarine Service. The USN Submarine Service people will dispute this of course, as expected. But when push comes to shove, they all want a British submarine captain and crew to do whatever is taxing the pollies of both nations.
Australia is getting something that has only EVER been given to one other nation, The USA entrusted its technology to the UK and we've not let them down, technology and ideas flow back and forth. Australia is now being given an invite into a very, VERY exclusive club, the SSN club. Other countries have them, however they do not operate them to 100% of their potential, Britain and the USA do.
Australia will be very welcome into the club. She will have the legs she needs to operate in those vast areas to counter those oh so delightful 'WE WANT IT ALL' Chinese. It will of course take decades to catch up, however the ball is already rolling and Aussie personnel are already operating alongside their US/UK counterparts at sea on operations.
Australian submariners are renowned throughout the submarine world, once they have a boat with real legs and with weapons and sensors to match they will be punching way above their weight. And very welcome they will be too!
You don't appear to have credited the April 15, 2019 edition of Naval Technology, as this is virtually a verbatim repeat of that article. I hope you weren't plagiarising that article.
Astute is a smaller boat so will have less weapons obviously. The main reasons she is better is that she is almost undetectable to the enemy due to the latest anti acoustic materials used. Apparently she is so stealthy one Captain spent a week looking for his new boat before releasing he was already onboard 🤣
thanks for the comment
It would seem that they've finally cracked the 'anechoic tile glue' problem. We used to think it was water soluble. Fresh out of DED, we'd come back to the UK a couple of months later looking like a meths drinker as seen under the railway arches, all gums and one middle tooth.
Bits of anechoic tile will always break off, the sea is totally unforgiving and relentless in its attack on anything 'not seawater'.
All those wishing to compare boats on appearance, speed and whatnot need to remember one thing - these boats do their best work at 4kts or less. EVERYTIME we went to sea (on a UK SSN in my case) we went as if for war. EVERY single one of our routines was conducted as if at war. When war comes, as it surely will, Britain's boats at sea will not have to do anything different.
Eat, live, breathe it, train hard and fight easy. Operational work up, prior to going on operational patrol of three months (I fully expect the A boats to be doing longer) was a bitch. The CSST staff, now FOST, really turn the screw hard and their standards are absolute. One of their absolutes was cleanliness of the boat, inside and out. However, even CSST/FOST accepted that those damned tiles will not play ball.
In my day the S&T class SSNs were superb in word and deed, these A boats though, they are a bit like comparing a Model T Ford to a F1 car. AND AND and when she commissions, HMS Agincourt will have the best name of ANY submarine at sea - EVER!
😂😂😅😅😅
I look forward to Australia getting the Astutes
Scrub that, we getting Virginia class.
Astute or a variation of Astute would ultimatly be a better fit. Austrailia could get two astutes for one virginia class as of now. I hear today that Australia will get 3/5 Virginia class until they get their new SSN R class subs from the UK, reported on Sky News Australia.
The Virginia would be the better fit but the problem with them is the 135 crew they require. If somehow the crewing can be reduced to similar levels as the Astute of around 90-100 then the Virginia will be a no brainer since our current subs use the same systems as the US.
@@carisi2k11 I like your thinking mate. For me, crew size is a big consideration.
As an. Aussie, I'm happy with either sub. Both look to be top shelf. I'd lean towards Astute based on small crew size requirement. But lean towards the USA because, I'm told, our communication systems match their's. Think I've got that right.
I'm wondering about communications when submerged - Anyone know how or if, a submerged sub can send & receive to HQ? I believe when emails etc are sent they are in some kind of condensed configuration & it's all sent within a millisecond. Does that sound even possible?
Last I heard, only very low frequency signals will penetrate the water w/o the mast being exposed for their other options, whatever they may be.
VLF signals from shore can be received by a dived boat because of 'loops (aerials) in the fin'. The boat has to be steering a best option course because of the way radio signals propagate to receive these VLF signals and yes they do penetrate below the surface, although I'm not sure of the exact depth.
A buoyant wire aerial is also streamed to receive signals when the boat is operating deep, the boat however is constrained by speed and course alterations, it's very easy to lose a wire by simply forgetting its streamed - until it's too late. We used to carry three spare aerials inside the boat, and often returned to the UK with none.
We did a trial under the ice with a 'special' extension and actually managed to achieve transmitting to shoreside a very, very low data rate signal. So it is possible, and I expect it's a lot more efficient now. These VLF comms techniques are really only suited to Bombers (SSBNs) because of their posture when on QRA. They have to be in contact with Whitehall throughout their deterrent patrol. SSNs are either at, or returning to, periscope depth every four of hours or so. They will try to receive any and all timed broadcasts as they are transmitted via satellite. It can be a pain in the arse being at periscope depth in rough weather trying to clear a signal, submarines really do 'roll heavily' in even a small swell.
Blurggghhhhh!
Speed and diving depth of Astute is still classified secret. And it doesn't need to refuel for the lifetime of the sub. So Astute is the best.
thanks for the comment
Literally every single navy keeps the maximum diving depth of their submarines secret, and US subs don't need to refuel either. So both metrics you specified are moot.
Australia will eventually have the latest British subs which will be the most advanced in the world like the Astutes!
Boat is important - but also is how you intend to fight with the boat. The boat must be able to fit the warfighting and operational concepts of the owner nation. So I think the answer for Australia will be which type provides the best balance to these perspectives. Of course all things being equal, the politicians might decide cost is primary so they might pick cheapest option and leave it to the navy to manage the best they can with what they get.
Hi, So with AUKUS what Australia going to choose! Astute Class or Virginia Class?
They just announced that they are getting 3 Virginia class subs while they get the new AUKUS(England's next generation sub) Class subs which are the newest subs.
@@ameritoast5174 Seems The RAN will be acquiring 3 Virginia SSN from The USA and will these boats be new build or just on loan until the new AUKUS SSN are built? RAN are acquiring a Fleet Of 8 AUKUS with the first RAN SSN to be built In Barrow In Furness (Devonshire Hall Dry Dock) and the Other 7 SSN'S In Australia and this to me is very ambitious. The UK is thinking of increasing with the AUKUS to a class of 10 for me that is also very ambitious .. There is no news for the AUKUS SSN for the USA Navy.
@@barrycharlessearle5253 The US will not get the AUKUS class subs. We already have the Columbia class in development which will replace the ohio subs and the SSN-X which will end up replacing the virginia class subs.
It looks like Australia will be getting new subs. The US is ramping up their shipyards to produce 3 subs a year instead of just two and Australia will get that third sub until the order is filled.
I wouldn't want to be at the wrong end of either one of these Subs
The Astute can go more places. It is smaller so it can squeeze into shallower seas.
Sounds like an AI chatgpt narration. However it boils down to captain crew and tactics.
Subs apart, the Royal Navy has the ‘Perisher’ submarine commander course. It is one of the most stringent courses imaginable and teaches the very best tactics and strategy. This alone, gives Royal Navy attack and ballistic missile submarines an edge.
More than anything else, Perisher produces submarine captains that CAN. The crews demand the very best of their COs and the CO demands the very best of them. Top down, bottom up. The standards are ferocious, no backsliding, no shirking, you either can and do, or you are gone!
Do you really need to shout all the way through 😮
Why say T?
Pronunciation 🔊🎼🔉✅ , enunciation and lastly volume turn it down a little bit 😉
Why does he say 'T' instead of tonnes?
I think it's a robot voice, just reading a script.
Artificial voice
Maybe a little less guitar and more info
I doubt the top speed numbers given on both subs but especially the Virginia class...she is built for the least resistance through the water so she can move fast while submerged
thanks for the comment
Top end speed is not really that important. Yeah it's useful for torpedo evasion, however the word that everybody should concentrate on is 'stealth'.
Can the boat move at an SOA of 20kts and still remain 'just a faint rise in background noise'. IF you've got that capability then your OPCON will take that attribute all day long!
Both the A boats and the Virginia class have that in spades, and with sensors and weapons to match they are formidable indeed!
Well, we now have an answer....Australia is buying at least three Virginia class submarines with option to buy more.
thanks for the comment
If we are getting virginia's then somehow they are going to be made to operate with fewer then 135 crew.
Hmm good luck with that, if you can’t build it the point is moot. There’s no way the astute gets your money’s worth over the life of it vs. the Virginia class
During the Cold War a Russian submariner was asked about US and Brit subs, he said he greatly respected the Americans subs but feared the British. As to why, I guess it could be the Perisher command course. But in any case we are stronger together AUKUS! It’d be great if Canada and NZ were part of that, but not happening with their current govts.
Have you read Hunter - Killer by Iain Ballantyne. It's about Royal Navy submarines during the cold war. Highly recommended.
@@stuartannetts300 no, but thanks for the suggestion. As a return book/leisure suggestion Osprey games published a game featuring SSNs couple years ago developed by a former submariner, its had great reviews, wish I could remember its name!!!!
@@christhorpejunction8982Just had a quick look. Was it called They come unseen?
@@stuartannetts300 yes! Yes thats it! It had good reviews too, years ago I played Larry Bonds Harpoon, the graphics were akin to a PWO’s plot board but with everything there, Unseen very different and apparently gets very atmospheric.
Yes, having Canada and the Kiwis alongside with the quality of their submariners would be a fantastic asset.
One day, someday - the Five Eyes will all be operating the same boats!
No just different but a bit quieter and better sniffer on the nose.They are like barn owls silent and deadly to the pray.
buy one get one free astute deal seems very good to me ausie friends
Why is it that i feel you're trying to sell me something?😅
Round 1 - sIZe
Gotta get a better AI voice
YES! Astute!! We may not have the largest navy anymore but we still build the best! Rule Britannia 🇬🇧
thanks a lot for the comments
Why are you shouting? Get a better microphone if the one you have isn't working properly!
Different roles.
The Virginia Class Submarines are the best submarines for the US Navy’s needs and strategy. The Astute Class Submarines are the best submarines for the Royal Navy’s needs and strategies. It’s simple.
Why do you yanks have to shout?
It's a generated voice too..
yes they are way better
Only on price.
Remember one thing it was the u.s that shared submarine technology
With the u.k.
Including nuclear technology.
I live in New London Conn and the british were working right here with our experts.
even US subs cannot hear them
@@cptnstylez and astute can't hear Virginia class either
@@Allan-hd1uh incorrect astute is quieter, faster, has better sensors, also uk ahead of us in sub tech since about 1900 the last time you had the edge was a Monitor lmao.
@@cptnstylez you are full of it .
Its the british who got help with their sub technology from the u.s.
You probably never heard of the seawolf..
The u.s doesn't take a back seat to anyone.
Britains subs had help with their propulsion and that help was from the u.s
And Virginia class is superior.
End of discussion.
Yes Virginia 🇺🇸