The Fateless One also gains the abilities of anything they kill because they absorb their fate which is described as "everything they are, were, and would be." This would mean that the Fateless One is immortal thanks to killing loads of fae and would scale to all of Balor's feats which also scales to other Niskaru. They should have the same abilities as Tirnoch which includes summoning alternate versions of themselves or even of Cloud to fight him. Also one of these Fateless One's most impressive showings of fate manipulation is in the Warsworn questline where they come across a door they can't go through because no one is fated to open it. There is even a narrator that explicitly states this. However, the Fateless One can change fate to the point where the narrator himself changes what he says. That is the equivalent of a character in a book actively editing what the book says in order to get what they want.
I'm not going to lie. I didn't think anybody outside my friend group knew about the Fateless One, and this is definitely the first time I've seen him in a verses battle
@@ghostninja1874 the hero of oakvale is the first one than theres the hero of bowerstone which is fable 2 and than theres the hero of Brightwall which is fable 3. Oh yeah the fateless one easily beats the hero of oakvale like the fateless one doesn't even need to use any abilites to win they are simply that Much more powerful
Lightning is the only character in final fantasy that I would describe as multiversal since she is quite literally a goddess and fights other gods that use multiversal attacks CONSTANTLY sephiroth would be like a mid tier enemy to her.
I'm... not surprised. I haven't finished Kingdom of Amalur, hell barely even dipped my toes in it comparatively. But even the bit I saw made it clear that the Fateless One is a *MASSIVE* anomaly in that universe. There's an entire thing of meeting a Fateweaver early on to get your fate read, and the fact that he can't scares the absolute living shit out of him. That dude is *TERRIFIED* of you, your mere existence completely and utterly breaks how the universe is supposed to work. Honestly, I don't even think the insane "single use" story items would be needed, sure they make things easier but Cloud is just outmatched here. So yeah, not surprised. Alucard Vs Cloud however is going to be pretty damn sweet. Side note, I'm pretty sure Fateless One is going to mop the floor with Dart. Most of their stuff is comparable yes, both insanely OP in their own universe, but that level of fate manipulation is beyond broken.
Dart can sap his will to fight remember? Among other abilities that aren't magic or physical. Stun, Fear, Petrification & Instant Death are status effects in The Legend of Dragoon as well. The Charm Potion(s) avoids enemy attacks for 3 turns. And the Magic Sig Stone blocks an enemies attacks for 3 turns. The Magic Shiny Bag (JP Version) can grant items from Dabas.
@@AllGodInfinity that provides some level of protection from most of the physical and magical effects yes... but The Fateless One's level of fate manipulation is off the charts levels of broken. I'm sorry but when you can straight up alter the fate *OF THE GOD OF FATE* there's not really anything that has any hope of resisting their fate being manipulated.
@@robertmcpherson138 It's an uphill fight for certain. Maybe later the Fateless One will fight more crazy characters. Besides, I platinum'd that game, so I know KoA Fateless One is very tough.
I have a theory as to why the Fateless One never uses those OP items again. It's really kinda basic: inexperience with fate manipulation. Through the story, the Fateless One is mostly bumbling through their powers. They discover it as they go, and grow in power bit by bit. But items of legend like that, those tend to be an item fated for a purpose. Once that purpose is complete, the world has no more need for them, so they become inert until they're needed to repeat the cycle. The Fateless One could probably warp fate to use those items again, but I theorize they aren't fully aware of how. They are shown to know how to manipulate objects; this is demonstrated by things like the Unopenable Door another user here mentioned, but it's possible that these legendary items are just too much for the Fated One to manipulate without proper experience. And defeating Tirnoch is just that experience. As that same user stated, when the Fateless One slays a target by manipulating their fate, they consume all they ever are, were, and will be. This means, in that moment, the Fateless One became the equivalent - or perhaps the new - God/Goddess of Fate. At that point, the fate of everything is at their control, and those objects would be child's play to use. Alternatively, it's possible that when the Fate of those items was shattered, they lost their purpose and, by extension, their power.
Keep in mind that Davoth was capable of holding the entire realm of Hell together, preventing it from being "scattered across the stars" as detailed in the lore simply by existing, even while heavily restricted and sealed in his soul sphere. Thats a multiversal feat (hell contains multiple dimensions absorbed into it and is "unlimited by boundaries of space, time, or dimension" according to the Doom Eternal art book) even for SEALED Davoth! Resurrected Davoth is obviously even stronger.
The only argument i have for Cloud winning is him speedblitzing the Fateless and chucking him into the sun, which is unrealistic becouse it falls under the category of "plugging a controller into the characters ass and using him yourself", but it's funny so i'm bringing it up.
Sometimes i wonder what yhe game devs where smoking when they came up with the powers of their characters cause DAMN !!! That shit gotta ve real good if it can make someone come with this stuff
When it comes to reaction speed and movement speeds, reaction speed should always be the same or faster than travel speed otherwise the character will always have a high chance of crashing into things meaning they can't really move at their top speed unless crashing into stuff isn't a big deal for them or they know there's nothing in theie path, as for combat speed though that can be faster than reaction speed since you don't need to be able to reaction to your own attacks so swinging an sword or throwing a punch faster than you can actually reaction doesn't matter unless the character is a idiot who is some how hitting them self with their own attacks like darkseid who is always hitting himself with his own omega beams lol
@@rougarabidNah I actually dont agree, depending on where this travel speed is being used. If you're just flying through space, space is mostly empty, so you can easily just choose a direction with no obstacles in the way and safely move FTL in that direction even if you have human-level reaction speeds. The same principle applies to flying in the atmosphere albeit to a lesser extent. The sky is still fairly empty which is why human pilots can fly at supersonic speeds without immediately crashing.
@@rougarabidI suppose I do technically agree due to the "except" statement he made but that's so weird to say something like "travel speed should scale to reaction speed unless this thing that applies to almost all travel feats anyways applies"
@@yekkub9425 i never said travel speed should scale to reaction speed i said reaction speed "should" scale to travel speed, a character's travel speed can be faster then therie reaction speed but they wont ever be going at speeds faster than what they can react to unless they don't care about hitting things or know they wont, superman in space can travel at speeds that create wormholes that let him travel the multiverse without the use of boomtubes but that doesn't mean his reaction speed scales to that speed
Honestly, this arguement boils down to a simple point; resistance is NOT the same as immunity. Resistance just lets you shrug something off to an extent, such as how many games apply resistance as cutting that kind of damage in half; resistance to fire means you only take half damage from all incoming fire. But if you are immune, that's it, no sell, it will not work, end of story. Immunity to fire means you can strut around a forest fire the size of the Amazon Rain-Forest and have a grand old day watching it burn! Cloud is RESISTANT to fate manipulation, but NOT immune.
I wonder how the Tarnished from Elden Ring would fair, simply because of two things. Endless respawns and the use of destined death, at the end of the game the player can get Maliketh's Black Blade as a sword and Destined Death as an incantation, both of which can kill a god (something which requires time manipulation to do in Elden Ring)
Soo the fateless one is basically the word "plot armor" personified. Yeah no way any character is beating that in the tournament right? Even tho I never heard of this guy before I'm gonna put my money on the fateless one.
Nah they're should be some people here and there in the listings who could beatem, I only briefly saw the list but I saw Dragonborn and instantly thought "Yeah he probably wins" He fucked up a guy who would end all of time including the Deadric Gods from what I know who are like infinity powerful beings.
While I agree to a point, the difference between a galaxy and a universe is like trillions of times larger. So if someone really is universal and someone else is galaxy or lower it makes sense that the universal person would barely even notice if they did at all.
Sure but you’re purposefully comparing extremes to argue against a point I never made. My argument is that saying that a character is immune to any damage other than their greatest durability feat is dumb. I never said any level of damage can hurt them.
If you ever get into Doomguy's stuff here (and by extension Davoth) keep in mind that Davoth was capable of holding the entire realm of Hell together, preventing it from being "scattered across the stars" as detailed in the lore simply by existing, even while heavily restricted and sealed in his soul sphere. Thats a multiversal feat (hell contains multiple dimensions absorbed into it and is "unlimited by boundaries of space, time, or dimension" according to the Doom Eternal art book) even for SEALED Davoth! Resurrected Davoth is obviously even stronger.
So I have some thoughts I don't have a problem with Solar System Cloud at all. Never have. One thing I'll definitely say is that people tend to think that Cloud solos Sephiroth or the 3 person party you use goes to battle him. This isn't actually true. It's not Cloud, Tifa, and Barrett, it's Cloud and Tifa and Nanaki and Barrett and Yuffie and Vincent and so on. It's like in Borderlands 2 where technically all the vault hunters you could play as are a group and go around fucking up everything One more thing I'll add is that Cloud's "magic" isn't actually magic. It comes from materia which comes from the Lifestream. The Lifestream is the energy that runs throughout the entire planet of Gaia. Gaia is portrayed as a living entity. It is conscious and has a soul which takes the physical form of the Lifestream. All living things on the planet come from the Lifestream and when they pass away they return to it and become part of the planet again. All of their emotions, knowledge, and what is left of their being form the Lifestream. This is why Sephiroth is so scary once he fuses with it because he has the knowledge and power of every living thing that has ever existed on Gaia so beating him is an absolutely astronomical feat I don't know anything about the fateless one besides what you've shown and stated here today. I don't know how the items work, if in lore they're passive or he has to activate them. I know i could just be like "welp the battle starts and before the fateless one even perceives what's happening, Cloud blitz and one shots. Woo, good scaling! Pat myself on the back, next video" but that's boring as hell so I won't
Oh also I agree with the travel speed reaction speed argument. I believe they're comparable until stayed or proven otherwise. Wish more people had that belief as it makes scaling easier than having to grab bullshit amounts of both travel speed and reaction speed feats
23:21 dont forget the enemy skill copy materia, in th egame its limited to a set number of enemies and abilties, but it could potentialy let cloud copy any ability from anyone. also cloud has the steal and mug materias that let him take items from enemies, that could make he could speed blitz the fateless one and take all his invintory items, like the einvincible medalian and the sorows, though the meteria is never shown letting him take the weapons or armor from an enemy i think, so the fateless one would still have his conceptual chaos weapons.
I appreciate the Cloud power scaling, cause I've been saying this for YEARS. If Sephiroth was that strong casually, why would he need to summon meteor to damage the planet?
It's funny to me how writers go off the rails as far as the lore is concerned, with zero regard to how the games actually play. It's like "Here's this thing that wins him every fight ever!" and then they are asked when they get it. "Oh, day two of their journey." And the game devs are just like "Ugh... Let's make it a cut scene, and then never speak of it again."
I didnt watch the video in full yet, just skipped to the last section (i will though) and as an active powerscaler that's... really into it- i think how you approach these types of matches is pretty cool in that you dont conform to how most scalers do things and just do your own thing. I do have one question though- The crux of the reason why the Fateless One won was that he was immune to physical and magical damage. I could go into the "how powerscaling doesnt work like that", "No limits fallacy" etc., but I like how you do things so I wanna understand like how this would work- how would the Fateless One ever lose? Because to a degree pretty much everything can be considered a form of magic, some magic users can bend fate or concepts with... magic (which if I understood your logic right in the last section- DOESN’T count as magic?). And some other characters could do the same thing with say- technology (p rare tho), thing is, technology uses physical science to make things work- aka "physical damage". If the Fateless One is immune to physical/technological and magical, what counts as something which can genuinely hurt or kill him? Does it depend on the source of the damage/effect and what its called (example, could Naruto's Chakra or Dragon Ball's Ki work? Its Life Energy, but it's... basically the same thing as magic when it comes to the world of fiction as a whole)?
I have no idea. I basically just look through what the character can do and try to come to some conclusion of how their power can get around the other characters ability. I think you can argue a lot of characters use abilities that aren’t physical or magical. Like Professor X’s mind fucking wouldn’t be physical or magical. In fact tons of hax aren’t in any way related to magic. Different forms of dimensional banishment would likely also work. It just depends. In this particular case Cloud was limited by only Magic and Physical attacks. It was a bad match up but I didn’t pick them. They were randomized.
16:07 cuase you mentioned link it reminds of an olf question i had... how strong is the strongest link?... we see the ocarina o ftime link use the golden guantlets to lift up and through a building sized chunkc of stone like its a bolling ball so thats pretty damn strong, but, we also see him use the megaton hammer, and while crouching he can one hand it and thrust it as fast as his normal sword, and one stricke from it is enough to completly destroy those big boulders that normaly take bombs to destroy, so how strong is link?!... well if the hammers name is acurate then he can lift and swing 1,000,000 tons so fast its like nothing to him.
Cool episode just wondering is the knight immune to death if not cloud dose know instant death abilities that are neither magic nor physical. Oh and I wounder how it stacks with Vincent being chaos and cloud being relative. But fate manipulation at that level is almost a garenteed win it sounds like. Not like cloud has the hacks of sepheroth he just foild his plans remake/rebirth just showed how broken he is now inside the life stream
19:41 Not to be lame or anything but SO MANY people apply this logic to the Mario franchise and it's super annoying to me. Just because Mario and Luigi can tank hits from Bowser doesn't mean that Goombas, Koopas, and other bottom tier baddies shouldn't be able to damage them. Just because Mario can fistfight Bowser and win DOES NOT MEAN that no one weaker than Bowser can hurt him. It's so dumb. Always has been always will be.
So heres the thing light Magic arent neccaserilly light speed. As light Magic can simply be something that looks like light but isn't actual as fast. Now could it be light speed yes but it should take with the same grain of salt as the destroying the world kinda statment
Not the same thing. World doesn’t mean planet. Light means light. Whether it’s made with magic or anything else. Light is light. You’d have to prove that for whatever reason this light isn’t actually lightspeed.
@@rougarabidwell is it stated to move as fast as light, are they actually stated to be light or do they just look like light. Also how does the attacks move? Are they beams or bolts or are they simply orbs floating towards you. I dont know about you but i would consider an orb floating towards me to be light speed. Yes its light but its moving not fast at all. Also no light isnt light especially not when it comes to Magic. Light Magic can do far more things than what actual light can do so dont make that argument they are the same.
Depends on the verse ngl. If you take blasters from star wars you could say the shots are made of light, and you could also call anyone who says those blasters are light speed STUPID. Light magic and tech is always iffy and needs to at least make since in the story to be as fast as light. (Also if you want to appeal to realism that all light is light speed in fiction you also have to counter the appeal to realsim that characters wouldn't be able to have light bounce into their eyes to see, the world would just blow up, ect.
@@haxmode6935 and speaking of going by realism by the same logic light wouldnt be able to bind you or be fused into weapons you know things Magical light can do
Regardless of how canon or accurate the stats for Dissidia are, the point is that if you can harm someone with regular non-hax attacks, you physically have to have some level of comparable strength to them. A wall level being cannot punch a continent level being and inflict damage. If the person can inflict damage, they physically must be comparable. Weaker, yes, but still comparable. It does not matter if you have twenty people attacking at once. You’re still physically comparable, just less so. No one is or has said you’re suddenly immune to any attack weaker than your strongest Comparing your own history of getting into fights is stupid because you’re not facing some building level fucker. You’re facing someone that can punch within the same couple hundred joules range that you can And the stupid thing is you STILL scaled Cloud to supernova. So what was the point of the complaint
Heres a question if you can stop time and your ability doesnt affect you. Are you resistent to time stop or are you simply resistent to your own ability? Another thing the fateless one being able to stop Magic from his world doesn't mean he can stop all kinds of magic like if cloud has a spell thats like idk solar system level in power (keep in mind i said in power and not destructive force) would the fateless one ability actually be able to stop it 🤔
Also in FF they have armor break which breaks equipment. So that talisman that has an empty battery and is no use can be broken. And how can you count a one time it that doesn’t work? Also why can’t cloud just mug it off him? Mug steals items out of inventory so if it’s in his inventory and not equipped,1 how is FO using it if it’s not equipped and 2 if it’s in inventory then it can be stolen or mugged.
Aye fam, I been watchin your stuff for a while now. All I have to say is I do hope you blow up eventually, but I also hope ya ain't end up feelin like ya gotta be a slave to the almighty algorithm. Keep making the content ya want and don't let numbers or people bring ya down coz at the end of the day there's still others like me who just wanna watch your entertaining opinions on random shit. Stay safe fam 🙏
I would think that if the item is only used one time and then doesn’t work anymore that the item itself has a use limit. Like the battery is dead and it doesn’t work anymore. Like if you have a lighter that is empty you still have a lighter but it can’t do what it did before.
@rougarabid I disagree a glass of milk, is a glass of milk. You don't have infinite milk. So items should count as one time use. I don't think that changes much here, but if items don't count as magic. It can be important later.
That makes no sense from the perspective of armors and accessories that give buffs pretty much permanently while being worn that happens in the game. Obviously the item was just rendered inert for gameplay purposes. The necklace is not a potion one time use item it just wouldnt be fun to play the game if you were impervious to every attack after getting it.
Im sorry i love your content and every thing you say but your way of comparing traveling speed to reaction/action speed is just stupid. Just because a rocket can travel at light speed it doesn't mean they can do it so everything moves in slow motion around them quicksilver style. Travel and action speed are very different
That’s a vehicle. Not the same thing as a person going at that same speed. I never spoke on vehicles. That would be very dumb, yes. If a person can travel at that speed then yes he would have to have comparable reaction speeds otherwise he wouldn’t be able to ever use it as he couldn’t react to his own speeds.
@@rougarabid i said the vehicle as an example like if the power the character has is specifically related to quick travel it shouldn't be compared to reaction speed like take any comic character that flies. Also yes they wouldn't be able to react like saying my superpower is launching myself at 10000 miles an hour isn't the same as reacting at similar speeds. At the end i completely get what you are trying to say and they should have reaction speeds similar to movement speed but it's still assuming whats not stated
Yes Superman who flies at MFTL can react to his own flight speed, Flash can react to his own run speeds, etc. Jon Irons may not always be able to but he’s a guy in an armored suit ergo a vehicle. Characters most of the time have 0 issues reacting to their own speeds. What would it even looked like if they couldn’t? Literally everything around them would pass by them so fast they wouldn’t be able to see it and their run speed would be useless.
@@rougarabid i get that maybe the comic statement wasn't exactly correct but it still should absolutely count as two different powers thats just related to one another like if you don't have the reaction you would be like for a lack of better example off the top of my head like someone in a thing thats moving forward like Ironman or you only have the reaction time and can't move at the speed you conseve like spiderman(he can react to super fast things but can't regularly move or fight in that speed)it's two different abilities commonly used together. But i will accept your case for this video and this argument specifically after more though it makes sense . But two different abilities not the same
I never said they weren’t different. I just said that if you’re traveling at MFTL speeds you have to be able to react to those speeds in order to even see anything around you moving. That doesn’t mean everyone who can react to things like that are that fast. You’re defending arguments I never gave.
Okay heres the thing when a character start reaching like high universal which is having the power to destroy a infinite 3 dimensional universe or being able to harm someone who is that powerful. Guess what beings in a tier blow them like universal aka the power to destroy a fininte universe cant harm them because they are quite litterally weaker by an infinite amount. And the tier above high universal which is universe+ Basically trencends the power of high universal as they can not only harm a infinite 3 dimensional universe but Also the entire time space contium meaning they can harm stuff on a 4th dimensional scale. And low multiversal and multiversal can do that but to several 4th dimensional universes on a fininte scale. And than theres what gilgamesh is which is multi+ aka destroying an infinite multiversal meaning he has infinite more power than someone who can simply destroy a fininte multiversal. So no a planet buster or galaxy buster or even a high universe buster cant harm him because they are so many infinite powers below them. Also your punching argument is dumb by the fact . The difference between humans in Strength isnt that big so obviously a weaker human can still harm a stronger human. This is not like a hundreds or millions or trillions difference in power, and its defintly not a infinite or higher difference. its a small difference of power
Based on bullshit pseudo science made up by a bunch of internet scalers that has literally 0 real world equivalent or even theoretical equivalent and is constantly proven false throughout all of fiction including in FF.
@@rougarabid are you saying a character with fininte 3rd dimensional strength like a galaxy buster can harm someone who has infinite 3rd dimensional strength aka someone who can destroy a infinite 3 dimensional universe aka someone who is LITERALLY infinitily stronger than the other person. If you believe that your full of Bullshit! The difference between them is infinite the weaker one would never harm the other character. This isnt a case of power scalers pseudo science this is the case of your denial or stupid punching argument. Is cloud multi+ i dont know probably not but your dumb a weaker human can harm a stronger human doesn't disprove him being that strong it is just silly to think like that. Make an actual argument for why he isnt that powerful or dont power scale again
@@rougarabid this isnt the case of pseudo science your punching argument is stupid cause there is a massive difference between a regular humans punching each other and a planet buster punching a Multiversal being
@@nelosparda4798 even if cloud was solar system and the fateless was plante. Cloud would still destroy the fateless its a million times difference. Add that onto him being like hundreds to thousands faster. He one shot the fateless while speed blitzing him. A normal human would have an easier time defeating a armored spartan 2 from halo in a fist fight than what the diffeculty fateless would have to fight cloud
Also, your line of reasoning for the Multiversal stuff doesn’t understand why they think that. The idea is; Say you can survive a nuke? Like, you can tank one on the chest and not even feel it. I’m a short woman with not much physical strength. If I punch you, you shouldn’t even feel it, cause your body is too hard and tough. The difference between planetary levels of strength and universe levels of durability is greater than the difference between a 2 mile an hour wind and your own body’s toughness irl. So, no, characters with far higher durability, presupposing combat in fiction is analogous at all to combat in real life, would need to be hit by characters with close enough power to hurt them. Otherwise they wouldn’t feel it, cause your example of “not needing to hit someone as hard as you can” in order to hurt then forgets that you’re already close in stats to anything you could hurt in real life. 😂😂😂
If a grown man stabbed you with a sword, you’d be hurt. If a piece of wood in the shape of a toothpick blown by extremely weak winds hits your leg, you’ll probably not even be scratched by it. Because the force behind the attack is far lower in the weaker one than the stronger one. The reason why you’d need to be close to Solar System level to hurt cloud is because a mountain level attack is literally millions of times weaker, and on real life, you aren’t going to be hurt by something with millions of times less strength than you. And that’s a fact. Bugs are closer to you in strength than a nuke is to a super nova. If cloud can survive a supernova and get back up, a nuke should be nothing to him, because his body is hard enough to withstand the force of a supernova, and nukes hit infinitely less hard.
But if you think the argument is as stupid as you do, it’s probably because you don’t like how it sounds? So I doubt explaining it to you would matter to you. You’ll think what you want.
That’s a strawman. I never made the argument you’re debating against. I said the idea that a character is immune to any damage less then their peak makes no logical sense. Literally the video I made before this one I argued Dart couldn’t be damaged by Alucard.
@@rougarabid Which comment is a straw man? Cause I didn’t intend to interpret what you said in an uncharitable manner, and interpreting you in the way I did seems to make sense given your contention, otherwise you wouldn’t even express dissent, cause you wouldn’t have room to disagree if you believed what I do- not because you couldn’t disagree, but because you would think the same things I did, and I thought you didn’t.
The Fateless One also gains the abilities of anything they kill because they absorb their fate which is described as "everything they are, were, and would be." This would mean that the Fateless One is immortal thanks to killing loads of fae and would scale to all of Balor's feats which also scales to other Niskaru. They should have the same abilities as Tirnoch which includes summoning alternate versions of themselves or even of Cloud to fight him. Also one of these Fateless One's most impressive showings of fate manipulation is in the Warsworn questline where they come across a door they can't go through because no one is fated to open it. There is even a narrator that explicitly states this. However, the Fateless One can change fate to the point where the narrator himself changes what he says. That is the equivalent of a character in a book actively editing what the book says in order to get what they want.
Me: Oh Cloud gots this
Halfway through the Fateless One analysis: EXCUSE ME?! I should pay more attention when I play the game again
I'm not going to lie. I didn't think anybody outside my friend group knew about the Fateless One, and this is definitely the first time I've seen him in a verses battle
I like to mix up popular characters with lesser known ones.
Fateless one sounds like a fun character to play as but can they beat the hero of oakvale
@pimpdemon9458 Which one? Personally, I think the first one is the strongest of the Heroes of Oakvale. However, the Fateless One would still win.
@@ghostninja1874 the hero of oakvale is the first one than theres the hero of bowerstone which is fable 2 and than theres the hero of Brightwall which is fable 3. Oh yeah the fateless one easily beats the hero of oakvale like the fateless one doesn't even need to use any abilites to win they are simply that Much more powerful
Lightning is the only character in final fantasy that I would describe as multiversal since she is quite literally a goddess and fights other gods that use multiversal attacks CONSTANTLY sephiroth would be like a mid tier enemy to her.
I'm... not surprised. I haven't finished Kingdom of Amalur, hell barely even dipped my toes in it comparatively. But even the bit I saw made it clear that the Fateless One is a *MASSIVE* anomaly in that universe. There's an entire thing of meeting a Fateweaver early on to get your fate read, and the fact that he can't scares the absolute living shit out of him. That dude is *TERRIFIED* of you, your mere existence completely and utterly breaks how the universe is supposed to work. Honestly, I don't even think the insane "single use" story items would be needed, sure they make things easier but Cloud is just outmatched here.
So yeah, not surprised. Alucard Vs Cloud however is going to be pretty damn sweet. Side note, I'm pretty sure Fateless One is going to mop the floor with Dart. Most of their stuff is comparable yes, both insanely OP in their own universe, but that level of fate manipulation is beyond broken.
Dart can sap his will to fight remember? Among other abilities that aren't magic or physical. Stun, Fear, Petrification & Instant Death are status effects in The Legend of Dragoon as well. The Charm Potion(s) avoids enemy attacks for 3 turns. And the Magic Sig Stone blocks an enemies attacks for 3 turns. The Magic Shiny Bag (JP Version) can grant items from Dabas.
@@AllGodInfinity that provides some level of protection from most of the physical and magical effects yes... but The Fateless One's level of fate manipulation is off the charts levels of broken. I'm sorry but when you can straight up alter the fate *OF THE GOD OF FATE* there's not really anything that has any hope of resisting their fate being manipulated.
@@robertmcpherson138 It's an uphill fight for certain. Maybe later the Fateless One will fight more crazy characters. Besides, I platinum'd that game, so I know KoA Fateless One is very tough.
I have a theory as to why the Fateless One never uses those OP items again. It's really kinda basic: inexperience with fate manipulation.
Through the story, the Fateless One is mostly bumbling through their powers. They discover it as they go, and grow in power bit by bit. But items of legend like that, those tend to be an item fated for a purpose. Once that purpose is complete, the world has no more need for them, so they become inert until they're needed to repeat the cycle. The Fateless One could probably warp fate to use those items again, but I theorize they aren't fully aware of how. They are shown to know how to manipulate objects; this is demonstrated by things like the Unopenable Door another user here mentioned, but it's possible that these legendary items are just too much for the Fated One to manipulate without proper experience.
And defeating Tirnoch is just that experience. As that same user stated, when the Fateless One slays a target by manipulating their fate, they consume all they ever are, were, and will be. This means, in that moment, the Fateless One became the equivalent - or perhaps the new - God/Goddess of Fate. At that point, the fate of everything is at their control, and those objects would be child's play to use.
Alternatively, it's possible that when the Fate of those items was shattered, they lost their purpose and, by extension, their power.
If you’re still doing more doom stuff eventually, Metroid Prime may be a fun one, since people often compare Samus to Doomguy.
Keep in mind that Davoth was capable of holding the entire realm of Hell together, preventing it from being "scattered across the stars" as detailed in the lore simply by existing, even while heavily restricted and sealed in his soul sphere. Thats a multiversal feat (hell contains multiple dimensions absorbed into it and is "unlimited by boundaries of space, time, or dimension" according to the Doom Eternal art book) even for SEALED Davoth! Resurrected Davoth is obviously even stronger.
You are fucking awesome. You are easily my most watched UA-camr this year. And I only found you a couple of months ago.
The only argument i have for Cloud winning is him speedblitzing the Fateless and chucking him into the sun, which is unrealistic becouse it falls under the category of "plugging a controller into the characters ass and using him yourself", but it's funny so i'm bringing it up.
His would kick in before he reach the sun his fate alone would win easily against cloud
That you for bring the fateless one into this! It so good to see a less talked about character make a reckoning!
Sometimes i wonder what yhe game devs where smoking when they came up with the powers of their characters cause DAMN !!!
That shit gotta ve real good if it can make someone come with this stuff
honestly never expected really anyone to mention the fateless one and honestly it was good to see that even now they put up a good fight
Now here me out. Cloud uses the steal move and just robs the fateless one 😂
Facts that's how he actually wins
It's really not.
When it comes to reaction speed and movement speeds, reaction speed should always be the same or faster than travel speed otherwise the character will always have a high chance of crashing into things meaning they can't really move at their top speed unless crashing into stuff isn't a big deal for them or they know there's nothing in theie path, as for combat speed though that can be faster than reaction speed since you don't need to be able to reaction to your own attacks so swinging an sword or throwing a punch faster than you can actually reaction doesn't matter unless the character is a idiot who is some how hitting them self with their own attacks like darkseid who is always hitting himself with his own omega beams lol
Yeah I agree with all that.
@@rougarabidNah I actually dont agree, depending on where this travel speed is being used. If you're just flying through space, space is mostly empty, so you can easily just choose a direction with no obstacles in the way and safely move FTL in that direction even if you have human-level reaction speeds. The same principle applies to flying in the atmosphere albeit to a lesser extent. The sky is still fairly empty which is why human pilots can fly at supersonic speeds without immediately crashing.
@@rougarabidI suppose I do technically agree due to the "except" statement he made but that's so weird to say something like "travel speed should scale to reaction speed unless this thing that applies to almost all travel feats anyways applies"
@@yekkub9425 i never said travel speed should scale to reaction speed i said reaction speed "should" scale to travel speed, a character's travel speed can be faster then therie reaction speed but they wont ever be going at speeds faster than what they can react to unless they don't care about hitting things or know they wont, superman in space can travel at speeds that create wormholes that let him travel the multiverse without the use of boomtubes but that doesn't mean his reaction speed scales to that speed
Honestly, this arguement boils down to a simple point; resistance is NOT the same as immunity. Resistance just lets you shrug something off to an extent, such as how many games apply resistance as cutting that kind of damage in half; resistance to fire means you only take half damage from all incoming fire. But if you are immune, that's it, no sell, it will not work, end of story. Immunity to fire means you can strut around a forest fire the size of the Amazon Rain-Forest and have a grand old day watching it burn! Cloud is RESISTANT to fate manipulation, but NOT immune.
I love anything with ol Amalar, nobody talks about it.
Rouga, I know these videos get no views in comparison to your survival challenges, but I hope you do more of them. They're very good stuff.
Loved Kingdom's of Amaluar Badass game with a badass protagonist, especially the ending, a full indepth of thr Fatelees One would be amazingm
I've watched a few of your videos this past week or so, but this one made me subscribe. I wish KoA got more love
Ill say it again, this idea is so fire
I wonder how the Tarnished from Elden Ring would fair, simply because of two things. Endless respawns and the use of destined death, at the end of the game the player can get Maliketh's Black Blade as a sword and Destined Death as an incantation, both of which can kill a god (something which requires time manipulation to do in Elden Ring)
I wonder who will ultimately win the tournament
love this, dope idea with a tournament
I feel like this guy may end up winning the tournament. His hax are *insane*
Soo the fateless one is basically the word "plot armor" personified. Yeah no way any character is beating that in the tournament right? Even tho I never heard of this guy before I'm gonna put my money on the fateless one.
Nah they're should be some people here and there in the listings who could beatem, I only briefly saw the list but I saw Dragonborn and instantly thought
"Yeah he probably wins"
He fucked up a guy who would end all of time including the Deadric Gods from what I know who are like infinity powerful beings.
While I agree to a point, the difference between a galaxy and a universe is like trillions of times larger. So if someone really is universal and someone else is galaxy or lower it makes sense that the universal person would barely even notice if they did at all.
Sure but you’re purposefully comparing extremes to argue against a point I never made. My argument is that saying that a character is immune to any damage other than their greatest durability feat is dumb. I never said any level of damage can hurt them.
Another great video keep up the good work
If you ever get into Doomguy's stuff here (and by extension Davoth) keep in mind that Davoth was capable of holding the entire realm of Hell together, preventing it from being "scattered across the stars" as detailed in the lore simply by existing, even while heavily restricted and sealed in his soul sphere. Thats a multiversal feat (hell contains multiple dimensions absorbed into it and is "unlimited by boundaries of space, time, or dimension" according to the Doom Eternal art book) even for SEALED Davoth! Resurrected Davoth is obviously even stronger.
So I have some thoughts
I don't have a problem with Solar System Cloud at all. Never have. One thing I'll definitely say is that people tend to think that Cloud solos Sephiroth or the 3 person party you use goes to battle him. This isn't actually true. It's not Cloud, Tifa, and Barrett, it's Cloud and Tifa and Nanaki and Barrett and Yuffie and Vincent and so on. It's like in Borderlands 2 where technically all the vault hunters you could play as are a group and go around fucking up everything
One more thing I'll add is that Cloud's "magic" isn't actually magic. It comes from materia which comes from the Lifestream. The Lifestream is the energy that runs throughout the entire planet of Gaia. Gaia is portrayed as a living entity. It is conscious and has a soul which takes the physical form of the Lifestream. All living things on the planet come from the Lifestream and when they pass away they return to it and become part of the planet again. All of their emotions, knowledge, and what is left of their being form the Lifestream. This is why Sephiroth is so scary once he fuses with it because he has the knowledge and power of every living thing that has ever existed on Gaia so beating him is an absolutely astronomical feat
I don't know anything about the fateless one besides what you've shown and stated here today. I don't know how the items work, if in lore they're passive or he has to activate them. I know i could just be like "welp the battle starts and before the fateless one even perceives what's happening, Cloud blitz and one shots. Woo, good scaling! Pat myself on the back, next video" but that's boring as hell so I won't
Oh also I agree with the travel speed reaction speed argument. I believe they're comparable until stayed or proven otherwise. Wish more people had that belief as it makes scaling easier than having to grab bullshit amounts of both travel speed and reaction speed feats
Looking at the rest of the bracket, my money is on the Tarnished
You doing Versus Series content was NOT on my 2024 bingo card. I hope you get as up there as EvanNova95 on god
23:21 dont forget the enemy skill copy materia, in th egame its limited to a set number of enemies and abilties, but it could potentialy let cloud copy any ability from anyone. also cloud has the steal and mug materias that let him take items from enemies, that could make he could speed blitz the fateless one and take all his invintory items, like the einvincible medalian and the sorows, though the meteria is never shown letting him take the weapons or armor from an enemy i think, so the fateless one would still have his conceptual chaos weapons.
I appreciate the Cloud power scaling, cause I've been saying this for YEARS. If Sephiroth was that strong casually, why would he need to summon meteor to damage the planet?
It's funny to me how writers go off the rails as far as the lore is concerned, with zero regard to how the games actually play. It's like "Here's this thing that wins him every fight ever!" and then they are asked when they get it. "Oh, day two of their journey." And the game devs are just like "Ugh... Let's make it a cut scene, and then never speak of it again."
Elder Scrolls:
Next fully geared world of Warcraft Paladin
I didnt watch the video in full yet, just skipped to the last section (i will though) and as an active powerscaler that's... really into it- i think how you approach these types of matches is pretty cool in that you dont conform to how most scalers do things and just do your own thing. I do have one question though-
The crux of the reason why the Fateless One won was that he was immune to physical and magical damage. I could go into the "how powerscaling doesnt work like that", "No limits fallacy" etc., but I like how you do things so I wanna understand like how this would work- how would the Fateless One ever lose? Because to a degree pretty much everything can be considered a form of magic, some magic users can bend fate or concepts with... magic (which if I understood your logic right in the last section- DOESN’T count as magic?). And some other characters could do the same thing with say- technology (p rare tho), thing is, technology uses physical science to make things work- aka "physical damage". If the Fateless One is immune to physical/technological and magical, what counts as something which can genuinely hurt or kill him? Does it depend on the source of the damage/effect and what its called (example, could Naruto's Chakra or Dragon Ball's Ki work? Its Life Energy, but it's... basically the same thing as magic when it comes to the world of fiction as a whole)?
I have no idea. I basically just look through what the character can do and try to come to some conclusion of how their power can get around the other characters ability. I think you can argue a lot of characters use abilities that aren’t physical or magical. Like Professor X’s mind fucking wouldn’t be physical or magical. In fact tons of hax aren’t in any way related to magic. Different forms of dimensional banishment would likely also work. It just depends. In this particular case Cloud was limited by only Magic and Physical attacks. It was a bad match up but I didn’t pick them. They were randomized.
Fateless just that guy
INTJ- really hope you have ff8 Squall in here, I'm a fan. don't care if he loses just want to know what he really can do.
Not every materia is magic. Cloud can just use enemy skill and have access to his opponent's strongest abilities
16:07 cuase you mentioned link it reminds of an olf question i had... how strong is the strongest link?... we see the ocarina o ftime link use the golden guantlets to lift up and through a building sized chunkc of stone like its a bolling ball so thats pretty damn strong, but, we also see him use the megaton hammer, and while crouching he can one hand it and thrust it as fast as his normal sword, and one stricke from it is enough to completly destroy those big boulders that normaly take bombs to destroy, so how strong is link?!... well if the hammers name is acurate then he can lift and swing 1,000,000 tons so fast its like nothing to him.
Cool episode just wondering is the knight immune to death if not cloud dose know instant death abilities that are neither magic nor physical. Oh and I wounder how it stacks with Vincent being chaos and cloud being relative. But fate manipulation at that level is almost a garenteed win it sounds like. Not like cloud has the hacks of sepheroth he just foild his plans remake/rebirth just showed how broken he is now inside the life stream
19:41 Not to be lame or anything but SO MANY people apply this logic to the Mario franchise and it's super annoying to me. Just because Mario and Luigi can tank hits from Bowser doesn't mean that Goombas, Koopas, and other bottom tier baddies shouldn't be able to damage them. Just because Mario can fistfight Bowser and win DOES NOT MEAN that no one weaker than Bowser can hurt him. It's so dumb. Always has been always will be.
So heres the thing light Magic arent neccaserilly light speed. As light Magic can simply be something that looks like light but isn't actual as fast. Now could it be light speed yes but it should take with the same grain of salt as the destroying the world kinda statment
Not the same thing. World doesn’t mean planet. Light means light. Whether it’s made with magic or anything else. Light is light. You’d have to prove that for whatever reason this light isn’t actually lightspeed.
@@rougarabidwell is it stated to move as fast as light, are they actually stated to be light or do they just look like light. Also how does the attacks move? Are they beams or bolts or are they simply orbs floating towards you. I dont know about you but i would consider an orb floating towards me to be light speed. Yes its light but its moving not fast at all. Also no light isnt light especially not when it comes to Magic. Light Magic can do far more things than what actual light can do so dont make that argument they are the same.
Depends on the verse ngl. If you take blasters from star wars you could say the shots are made of light, and you could also call anyone who says those blasters are light speed STUPID. Light magic and tech is always iffy and needs to at least make since in the story to be as fast as light. (Also if you want to appeal to realism that all light is light speed in fiction you also have to counter the appeal to realsim that characters wouldn't be able to have light bounce into their eyes to see, the world would just blow up, ect.
@@haxmode6935 and speaking of going by realism by the same logic light wouldnt be able to bind you or be fused into weapons you know things Magical light can do
Regardless of how canon or accurate the stats for Dissidia are, the point is that if you can harm someone with regular non-hax attacks, you physically have to have some level of comparable strength to them.
A wall level being cannot punch a continent level being and inflict damage. If the person can inflict damage, they physically must be comparable. Weaker, yes, but still comparable.
It does not matter if you have twenty people attacking at once. You’re still physically comparable, just less so. No one is or has said you’re suddenly immune to any attack weaker than your strongest
Comparing your own history of getting into fights is stupid because you’re not facing some building level fucker. You’re facing someone that can punch within the same couple hundred joules range that you can
And the stupid thing is you STILL scaled Cloud to supernova. So what was the point of the complaint
Oh no. I was very wrong last time. I can't see the Fateless one not making it to the end. Of this bracket at least.
Ready for round 2?
cloud did in fact not have this in the bag
clouds got loser bracket in the bag though
cant cloud remove the thing that protect from fateless one from magic and physical he way faster then him?
Cloud can't remove concepts.
Heres a question if you can stop time and your ability doesnt affect you. Are you resistent to time stop or are you simply resistent to your own ability?
Another thing the fateless one being able to stop Magic from his world doesn't mean he can stop all kinds of magic like if cloud has a spell thats like idk solar system level in power (keep in mind i said in power and not destructive force) would the fateless one ability actually be able to stop it 🤔
Also in FF they have armor break which breaks equipment. So that talisman that has an empty battery and is no use can be broken. And how can you count a one time it that doesn’t work? Also why can’t cloud just mug it off him? Mug steals items out of inventory so if it’s in his inventory and not equipped,1 how is FO using it if it’s not equipped and 2 if it’s in inventory then it can be stolen or mugged.
Aye fam, I been watchin your stuff for a while now. All I have to say is I do hope you blow up eventually, but I also hope ya ain't end up feelin like ya gotta be a slave to the almighty algorithm. Keep making the content ya want and don't let numbers or people bring ya down coz at the end of the day there's still others like me who just wanna watch your entertaining opinions on random shit. Stay safe fam 🙏
The beggining
This is match 2. The beginning was a few days ago.
I meant the beginning of the video
Darts is cooked next round
Got a potential series idea for ya. What worlds (idk, you pick a genre) could survive the Radiance' infection.
I would think that if the item is only used one time and then doesn’t work anymore that the item itself has a use limit. Like the battery is dead and it doesn’t work anymore. Like if you have a lighter that is empty you still have a lighter but it can’t do what it did before.
No it doesn’t have a battery. Story wise the item never stops working it just stops letting you use it for gameplay purposes.
@rougarabid I disagree a glass of milk, is a glass of milk. You don't have infinite milk. So items should count as one time use.
I don't think that changes much here, but if items don't count as magic. It can be important later.
That makes no sense from the perspective of armors and accessories that give buffs pretty much permanently while being worn that happens in the game. Obviously the item was just rendered inert for gameplay purposes. The necklace is not a potion one time use item it just wouldnt be fun to play the game if you were impervious to every attack after getting it.
Okay so does the fateless one just, win the whole tournament then since he is literally like the equivalent of the christian God?
Im sorry i love your content and every thing you say but your way of comparing traveling speed to reaction/action speed is just stupid. Just because a rocket can travel at light speed it doesn't mean they can do it so everything moves in slow motion around them quicksilver style. Travel and action speed are very different
That’s a vehicle. Not the same thing as a person going at that same speed. I never spoke on vehicles. That would be very dumb, yes. If a person can travel at that speed then yes he would have to have comparable reaction speeds otherwise he wouldn’t be able to ever use it as he couldn’t react to his own speeds.
@@rougarabid i said the vehicle as an example like if the power the character has is specifically related to quick travel it shouldn't be compared to reaction speed like take any comic character that flies. Also yes they wouldn't be able to react like saying my superpower is launching myself at 10000 miles an hour isn't the same as reacting at similar speeds. At the end i completely get what you are trying to say and they should have reaction speeds similar to movement speed but it's still assuming whats not stated
Yes Superman who flies at MFTL can react to his own flight speed, Flash can react to his own run speeds, etc. Jon Irons may not always be able to but he’s a guy in an armored suit ergo a vehicle. Characters most of the time have 0 issues reacting to their own speeds. What would it even looked like if they couldn’t? Literally everything around them would pass by them so fast they wouldn’t be able to see it and their run speed would be useless.
@@rougarabid i get that maybe the comic statement wasn't exactly correct but it still should absolutely count as two different powers thats just related to one another like if you don't have the reaction you would be like for a lack of better example off the top of my head like someone in a thing thats moving forward like Ironman or you only have the reaction time and can't move at the speed you conseve like spiderman(he can react to super fast things but can't regularly move or fight in that speed)it's two different abilities commonly used together. But i will accept your case for this video and this argument specifically after more though it makes sense . But two different abilities not the same
I never said they weren’t different. I just said that if you’re traveling at MFTL speeds you have to be able to react to those speeds in order to even see anything around you moving. That doesn’t mean everyone who can react to things like that are that fast. You’re defending arguments I never gave.
Okay heres the thing when a character start reaching like high universal which is having the power to destroy a infinite 3 dimensional universe or being able to harm someone who is that powerful. Guess what beings in a tier blow them like universal aka the power to destroy a fininte universe cant harm them because they are quite litterally weaker by an infinite amount. And the tier above high universal which is universe+ Basically trencends the power of high universal as they can not only harm a infinite 3 dimensional universe but Also the entire time space contium meaning they can harm stuff on a 4th dimensional scale. And low multiversal and multiversal can do that but to several 4th dimensional universes on a fininte scale. And than theres what gilgamesh is which is multi+ aka destroying an infinite multiversal meaning he has infinite more power than someone who can simply destroy a fininte multiversal. So no a planet buster or galaxy buster or even a high universe buster cant harm him because they are so many infinite powers below them. Also your punching argument is dumb by the fact . The difference between humans in Strength isnt that big so obviously a weaker human can still harm a stronger human. This is not like a hundreds or millions or trillions difference in power, and its defintly not a infinite or higher difference. its a small difference of power
Based on bullshit pseudo science made up by a bunch of internet scalers that has literally 0 real world equivalent or even theoretical equivalent and is constantly proven false throughout all of fiction including in FF.
@@rougarabid are you saying a character with fininte 3rd dimensional strength like a galaxy buster can harm someone who has infinite 3rd dimensional strength aka someone who can destroy a infinite 3 dimensional universe aka someone who is LITERALLY infinitily stronger than the other person. If you believe that your full of Bullshit! The difference between them is infinite the weaker one would never harm the other character. This isnt a case of power scalers pseudo science this is the case of your denial or stupid punching argument. Is cloud multi+ i dont know probably not but your dumb a weaker human can harm a stronger human doesn't disprove him being that strong it is just silly to think like that.
Make an actual argument for why he isnt that powerful or dont power scale again
@@rougarabid this isnt the case of pseudo science your punching argument is stupid cause there is a massive difference between a regular humans punching each other and a planet buster punching a Multiversal being
@@nelosparda4798 even if cloud was solar system and the fateless was plante. Cloud would still destroy the fateless its a million times difference. Add that onto him being like hundreds to thousands faster. He one shot the fateless while speed blitzing him.
A normal human would have an easier time defeating a armored spartan 2 from halo in a fist fight than what the diffeculty fateless would have to fight cloud
😔
Ah yes the greatest swordsman tournament. I liked the part where the fateless won using his sword skills and combat prowess.
Who said this was a swordsman tournament?
There's like 12 different weapons you can use in kingdoms of amalaur
Hey rouga I’m a girl and I watch this geeky stuff including forgotten beauties because i❤women
Hey! Women DO watch things like these. 😂
Also, your line of reasoning for the Multiversal stuff doesn’t understand why they think that.
The idea is; Say you can survive a nuke? Like, you can tank one on the chest and not even feel it.
I’m a short woman with not much physical strength. If I punch you, you shouldn’t even feel it, cause your body is too hard and tough.
The difference between planetary levels of strength and universe levels of durability is greater than the difference between a 2 mile an hour wind and your own body’s toughness irl.
So, no, characters with far higher durability, presupposing combat in fiction is analogous at all to combat in real life, would need to be hit by characters with close enough power to hurt them. Otherwise they wouldn’t feel it, cause your example of “not needing to hit someone as hard as you can” in order to hurt then forgets that you’re already close in stats to anything you could hurt in real life. 😂😂😂
If a grown man stabbed you with a sword, you’d be hurt. If a piece of wood in the shape of a toothpick blown by extremely weak winds hits your leg, you’ll probably not even be scratched by it.
Because the force behind the attack is far lower in the weaker one than the stronger one. The reason why you’d need to be close to Solar System level to hurt cloud is because a mountain level attack is literally millions of times weaker, and on real life, you aren’t going to be hurt by something with millions of times less strength than you.
And that’s a fact. Bugs are closer to you in strength than a nuke is to a super nova. If cloud can survive a supernova and get back up, a nuke should be nothing to him, because his body is hard enough to withstand the force of a supernova, and nukes hit infinitely less hard.
But if you think the argument is as stupid as you do, it’s probably because you don’t like how it sounds? So I doubt explaining it to you would matter to you. You’ll think what you want.
That’s a strawman. I never made the argument you’re debating against. I said the idea that a character is immune to any damage less then their peak makes no logical sense. Literally the video I made before this one I argued Dart couldn’t be damaged by Alucard.
@@rougarabid
Which comment is a straw man?
Cause I didn’t intend to interpret what you said in an uncharitable manner, and interpreting you in the way I did seems to make sense given your contention, otherwise you wouldn’t even express dissent, cause you wouldn’t have room to disagree if you believed what I do- not because you couldn’t disagree, but because you would think the same things I did, and I thought you didn’t.