CMPE PVP: Operation Whetstone Mission 1: Screen
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2023
- British forces around Copehill Down screen against an incoming Donovian Battalion Tactical Group in UK Fight Club's Operation Whetstone campaign for Combat Mission Professional Edition.
Fight Club International is a wargaming experimentation group learning to fight across all domains of conflict and competition. #ThinkFightLearnRepeat
www.fightclubinternational.org/ - Ігри
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That TC who manned the gun under fire was a hero. Never forget Jackal 8, the most flexible troop on the field.
With some of these country names you could write this as the ground perspective of Ace Combat.
I love the fight club videos and PE content. Good stuff. It's interesting to see CM used for something a little more than just a usual PBEM.
Still annoyed they refuse to add the replay feature to the commerical version of CBM.
I know it would make my life a whole lot easier.
6:05 now that's a Victoria Cross right there
Combat mission is most fun, when you are not the one playing
Haha, as someone who's spent a lot of time on Salisbury plain in a Jackal this is wild to see 😂 Great vid as usual
Excellent as ever, but really appreciated also that global or bird's eye view of the battle you gave in the closing section. Hope you keep doing it, as it really helps tie the battle together to weave all the closeups we've seen with the overall movement of all units across the map. Great work!
It's very easy with CM Pro because of the inbuilt replay feature. Possible with the commerical CMs but... takes forever and you have to try and get the camera into the same position every time. Very time consuming.
Really wish they'd implement this feature on the commercial CMs, would absolutely love to be able to replay my missions! @@usuallyhapless9481
i always wondered why there wasnt more CM content on YT. until i got the the games. I think longer than i actually do. which is what makes the RTS part fun since every second, everything is changing. but yeah. when your in those pause games... and are sitting there. thinking. and thinking. getting lunch so you can think it out more. just to pick a move that kills 2 entire troop carriers. thats a good CM move
Yep. This is why I don't do more turn-by-turn stuff.
This mission seems like a really interesting counterpart to the CMBS mission where the BTG transits through the wooded area. Or the mission on the map you played 8 wheeled handycap on. On those maps javelins can shine, picking the exact targets they want. On those maps you hand choke points where calling for fires could significantly delay and hurt the armored column. While theoretically similar, light recon troops against an overmatched enemy with worse spotting in a wooded area with some builinds, the terrain details really change it completely
Great to see the professional edition
All I want for Christmas is CMPE.
I think that it should be possible as you said yourself for light vehicle crews to use things like RPG-26s or AT-4s from their vehicles if the vehicle or the team inside of it has a weapon like that in its inventory, the crews shouldn't just sit and wait to die when faced with something heavier then infantry or a lightly armored car and it would help to make light vehicles like Humvees, TIGRs, and Jackals more of a force on the battlefield instead of being instantly outclassed the second something with just a bit of armor shows up.
Yea they should. We have seen something like that in Ukraine war, when even crew of M113 was using LAWs from MG position.
In combat mission only passengers can personal weapons if vehicle allows it (Stryker for example), but they cannot use weapons from special equipment (weapons from menu in the middle). They can use under barrel grenade launchers even M32 revolvers but not M72 LAW because it is in special equipment.
@Imperator3838 what? That makes no fucking sense. You cannot use any rocket or anything similar from inside of an armored vehicle. You would literally die.
@@Imperator3838 Indeed, I've always thought these vehicles were useless against Russian armor...then I realized that the gunner has a bunch of AT4s on his side to use just in case. This needs to be simulated.
@@user-tx3xy7lw6w not from inside. You peek out of the vehicle just like you use MG on the roof. The launcher is outside when you shoot.
@@user-tx3xy7lw6w what... Bro you can fire from the gunner position, theres literally a video of that.
The recon video from a few weeks back starts to make more sense now
I wish I was that organised. I actually finished this video back in February, just haven't really been able to slot it in
im quite happy to find out about this channel by random chance
Wonderful always love a new series!
Amazing as always!
Excellent video. You defeated him but lost to yourself. You got greedy if you asked me. You should have just used the javelins to dominate the center and the jackals to cover the flanks. Concentrated javelin fire would have ended the recon in the center and forced him to go around or call in arty and you had time to bail. All in all great video as always. This is one of the best channels on youtube for me.
BMPs went exactly on the flanks, so I wonder if you could concentrate javelins in one spot. I see two approaches here: first as described in the end of the video, by dispersing antitank teams across the line and letting them fire at will, or trying to delay movement of enemy recce and main forces by massing in the dense forests and village itself.
@leonardrogov5850 BMPs started in the center and crossed line of sight os the village. Dispersing the Javelins would have worked if he was facing a recon in force and not the main effort. Soviet doctronie works by mass. When they send their 2nd echelon, they commit a large number of vehicles. Javelin has a long reload time and could have destroyed one or maybe two before being suppressed and destroyed. This wouldn't have helped. The jungle and the city approach is better, in my opinion. He should have had dense cover to break the line of sight and escape. I personally only use massed AT against the soviets. It will free a large portion of the map for my own counterattack. Single AT won't work against them. Of course, there is always the risk of Russian artillery. In summary, I would prefer a force preservation approach at this stage. Those Javelins can be super effective in the counterattack when supported enough.
Great video!
Love this PvP format
That mortar round at the end slightly satisfied my raging NATO bias.
All jokes aside an energetic, fun engagement, great vid!
It would be fun to see a matchup in an urban environment with bad infantry and bad armor on both sides.
Can you imagine sitting in a Jackel while the 50 is blazing in your eardrums... damn! Don't forget your ear protection kids.
I like how Jackal 7 crew can contort to the main gun. hahah This was a fun video and I really like the early engagement. Sad that the escape didnt go as smoothly.
Trippy to see this in CM
I don't even play this game but i really enjoy your videos! Wish you would do them full time😅
So do I
Commercial CM players, note the Euro camou for Brit inf and vehicles, plus the appearance of Foxhound AC which you won't find elsewhere. As to gameplay, whether playing WWII or modern war I've never had much (any) luck with mgs mounted on unarmored vehicles unless you're REALLY able to stand-off at max range, then you're unlikely to hit much.
Lets go. I love a good PVP vid.
Glorified technicals
I like it
What is Combat Mission: Professional?
It is UK Mil sponsored edition. Not available to the general public.
@@System-Update Thank you
So is Combat Mission Professional a different game created by Matrix Pro Sim which uses the Combat Mission engine? It isn't actually Battlefront's game anymore?
IIRC, Matrix Games are the publisher, so it's still Battlefront's game
I'd love to see the full layout of this scenario and fight it with my community in Steel Beasts. (Exact Donovian composition and attack plan) as well as UK ORBAT.
I'll try and dig it out for you
It’s a good argument that Cav/Scout units need to be harden on today’s battlefield. Gone are the days light scout units could effectively engage in shoot and scoot tactics without quick accurate return fire. Hopefully western militaries can adapt or change doctrine to fit!
On the flipside, maybe an effective recce team is going to be a mix of UGVs, drone carriers and stand-off weapon carriers.
WE ve seen in Ukraine that these units can effectively carry and use anti-tank weapons from their vehicles. It'd make a huge difference if that was simulated.
@@usuallyhapless9481 Id lean to this. We've seen how prolific man-portable drone usage has become in the current conflict, from mass kamikaze attacks to tracking individual patrols back to their foxholes (and subsequently guiding shells into those holes). I'd think the new-gen recce team would be focused on employing as many remote assets as they can carry without ever presenting flesh to the enemy, and the meat of an OP would be somewhere with good signal and zero sightlines.
I find these delay and exit victory conditions to be the toughest ones. My execution timing is almost always off.
Looks like Jackal 7 TC is in for a medal
Hello, I am Presidente of Donovia, I would like to purchase this simulator for my country armed forces. We are a peaceful country that would never start any wars.
Amusingly, there is a Russian manual out there which uses screenshots from the original Combat Mission Beyond Overlord to illustrate points: twitter.com/VDV_Textbooks/status/1559150447004422146
@@usuallyhapless9481 crikey, hopefully they paid for the licence and not just download the demo.
@@2157AF CM:CW Demo when?
@@d.c.6065 I assumed there was a demo? if there wasnt oh well.
@@2157AF there’s a demo for every game except CW, and I’ve been asking for one for years
10:56 Combat Mission physics
Glad to see the modern CM content. Would love to see more of it.
PS are you ever going to finish the NTC campaign in Cold War?
The NTC campaign is on the list.
It's... a long list :)
@@usuallyhapless9481 Understandable. I feel your pain.
Really enjoyed watching this. Forgive me if you said this in the vid, but will we be getting the second and third installments of op whetstone? I'd love to see them
They are on the list! I really should have done them ages ago, to be honest.
Great video mate. What are all the factions available on PE ? Do you think they will ever release it for public purchase ?
Factions wise, PE is basically Black Sea with SF2 jammed up it. So for Blue- US, Ukr, USMC, UK, Can, Ger and Dutch, for Red 'Donovia' (we all know who that is), Sub-Peer (SF2 Syria) and Uncons (SF2 Uncons).
A public release seems unlikely.
Why does it seem unlikely? Been a fan of the series of games and haven't really heard about Professional Edition
@@Zeke556 Amongst other things, Battlefront has always been very cautious about letting players 'look under the hood', as it were. There are definitely some features of CMPE that let you see the internal workings of Combat Mission (including HUGE spreadsheets)- that's not a big deal for Professional customers, but not something I think BFC wants to wave about in the commerical environment.
@@usuallyhapless9481 Fair enough.....I just wanna play with all the factions I like 😂. Appreciate the response, love your vids and your tutorial series has immensely helped me with getting into this series. I always look forward to your next addition in the tutorial series. I always learn something new even when I didn't expect it. Cheers and have a great day.
What's up with the Danovians ? Its a specific REDFOR (Russian) force specific to this version of CM?
Great content as usual ^^
Especially the early engagements, i enjoyed them quite a bit ^^
Yep. The Donovians are the "not-Russians" from the Decisive Action Training Environment odin.tradoc.army.mil/DATE
@@usuallyhapless9481 ah I see, thanks 😅👍
@usuallyhapless9481 I'm wondering if you have access to the ORBATs for Blue and Red (ideally 1 up from what you are playing) and the rough campaign plan (scenario path)?
I'm looking to recreate this in Steel Beasts with a bigger map and broader forces.
I've submitted a request to Fight Club UK, but thought I'd ask here as well.
8:40 In this situation I would assume that the answer to all three questions is yes
Is it possible in the CBSF2 / CBBS / CBBfN / CBRT... to replay the whole battle like at the end of your video?
No it's a special feature in professional
Sadly no- it is just a feature in CMPE
Here's an interesting question, do you think you'd have done better with a more 'archaic' British reconnaissance formation (90s or early 2000s), equipped with Scimitars and Milans rather than Jackals and Javelins?
I think it's up in the air. MILAN being wire guided suffers a 'guidance time problem' in the same way that Javelin suffers from a 'lock-on time problem': fleeting targets are an issue. The 30mm guns on the Scimitars would certainly be more effective against BMPs etc, but how smart it is to hang around plinking BMPs when there are tanks about is debatable.
I have, however, played the mission again (against the AI) and swapped the Jackal based force out for an Ajax based one. I may have to dig that out, IIRC there was a much higher Donovian body count (Ajax as modelled is a solid platform) but the end result was the same and the anti-tank problem persisted. I also could replay a third time with a Scimitar based force, come to think of it.
@@usuallyhapless9481 I'd be interested to see how that panned out. Not surprised the Ajaxes didn't make a great deal of difference though, I think you'd need either much more prolific and durable ATGMs (i.e. ATGM carriers or better, Bradley style armaments on whatever CFV is in the unit) or some proper armour to truly bloody an opponent's nose in this kind of situation. The inability to really fight for information or screen against determined, well directed mechanised forces unaugmented has been a problem for British recon basically since the end of WW2 admittedly, and they've certainly never in my mind matched the US MBT-CFV hybrid cavalry formations, no matter how much I adore the old CVRTs.
theres a combat mission professional? how would one get a licence for this it looks great (ive played every single campaign in every combat mission i knew available) Great video btw
I'm finding it hard to actually find anything on CM pro edition, what does it bring and where could i find it if thats even possible
Never mind, I've read the other comments... Such a shame this is closed to the public, otherwise, its probably one of the best CM games out there, with the huge variety of factions and capabilities
It is possible to get hold of it: www.fightclubinternational.org/operation-whetstone
The main limiting factor is the number of licenses Fight Club has available rather than any desire to restrict access.
Hey Hapless. Get to da Chopper.
Hi there is some way to get a Combat mission professional edition for personal users as once was for example Vbs1 or Vbs2 personal edition? I actually got one personal user Virtual battlespace 2 licence 10 years ago obviously paying almost 300 euros. There is some way to adquire it? Please i will glad if you can answer me that question that im sure more than one will be interested to know. Thanks
How do you get the overview showing both player's perspectives at the end?
Its the replay feature from CM Professional
How did you get your hands on professional edition?
I was kindly granted a license by UK Fight Club
@@usuallyhapless9481 does professional edition have all of the WWII assets or just modern stuff?
It's basically SF2 and Black Sea mashed together, with a few specific elements added in for professional use, stuff like Boxer, Stryker Dragoon, NLAW, UGVs etc
0:20: Did you really say "neighbouring Denovia"? That might excite the FCDO. :)
Ha! Yeah, in hindsight, could have phrased that more accurately.
SOLDAT, DISREGARD FIRE AND FORGET ATGMS, RETVRN TO SACLOS
How do you watch replays like you did at 13:02?
It's a CMPE feature. It would be a fantastic addition to the commercially available games, but I wouldn't count on it.
WARGAME REDDRAGON
excited to see the content, but i would really recommend ensuring your titles outline if it is PvP - i definitely dont watch the single player content and i suspect many others prefer to watch the PvP side of things as well
Good point. I was doing this at one point, best get back to it.
id rather dismount the jackal crew and take off the machine guns to set up a defensive position
That would make it a lot harder to run away ;)
There's a Pro version? What's that like?
In a nutshell, it's what you get when you take Black Sea, jam all the SF2 units into it and then add in some more modern kit and some useful porfessional features like the ability to track replays and export everything to CSV files.
Man im still sour that my PE license got screwed up :|
I dont understand how you are playing this. What game name us it. I have the modern games but not this one. How can I buy this game.
Why not play on rts style?
What is Professional Edition?
how to get cmpe?
Thats the neat part you dont
Join the British Army.
No, literally, you have to either join the British Army and be a part of DSTL, join the UK/US Fight Club (your chances of getting accepted increase if you have something you can contribute, such as military experience), or be a content creator large enough that Fight Club will give you a copy (such as Usually Hapless or Many Miles Away).
@@AUsernameWeShallMarchToKiev that will be problematic cuz i'm not a british citizen
Hapless is only into women that can recite accurate battle drills.
What is Professional Edition?
In a nutshell, CMPE is a combination of Black Sea and Shock Force with some added up to date units and more features. It's mainly for professional and academic use.
@@usuallyhapless9481 thank you very much!
@@usuallyhapless9481 how does one go about getting a copy of it?