The untrained, unqualified male elders listened to the tape of an assault on a 14 yr. old girl how many times? And then played it in front of the parents & victim??!! Shouldn't they be on a sex offenders' list?
Shame on those Elders!!! That poor child. 😢 what was the Elders payoff? They themselves are perverted at the price of this child. Rape is a crime! Why didn't they report it to the police so the Child could have gotten professional help. This crime should never have kept quiet. When the police don't do anything about you get counseling and the counselor is a mandatory reporter. Parents please protect your children. Do not go to the Elders! Poor Girl 5 hours of mental torture from the Elders. I hope that the rapist gets jail time and as for the Elders I hope they get charge with the crime of not mandatory reporting and keeping a crime secret. Watchtower has a legal department that they call for advice. A religion that does not report rape or child abuse cases is not the true religion. Don't let children fall into something like this again Parents. To many secrets are kept by this organization. Mr. GRACEY THE WATCHTOWER POLICIES ARE SO UNJUST. I THANK YOU FOR TALKING about this. This will help alot of people so that they will not fall into the trap of the Watchtower/JWS.
Just what I was thinking,Meghan. Why FOUR elders? Usually two or three at most. One can only guess why. Why listen to it over and over again? That poor young girl would have been traumatised for life, I truly hope that this isn't the case . I'd like to think that they didn't know exactly what they were doing but they knew alright. This was torture of a child for their own gratification. I don't know what the outcome of this case against them, but I hope that they're all prosecuted and shamed along with the Watchtower for backing them. How can this organisation keep being viewed as mainstream religion? They need to be brought down for good. That time WILL come!
"She killed herself after that meeting." - I had to pause, because his tears and those words made me cry too, and then seethe with such anger at this abusive cult. There are just no words.
It sounds as if they get off on hearing the sexual encounters. I've watched a few videos where the individuals were asked by the elders to describe and recount their sexual encounters in detail. Sick!
Prison is reserved for harden criminals, I wouldnt put the elders in that category lol. Plus that would play into the whole persecution complex. What they really need is strong therapy to wake them up and show them what they are doing is not ok and is severely damaging to people. Remember elders are trapped in a cult too, we were all there.
@@Denariusjay agreed jail may not be appropriate. But when I was a young woman I was “counseled” for my loose morals (lol) and the questions they asked and the interest they showed in intimate details was unsettling. I took a big step back from the organization after that
My husband jus said this today listening to Lloyd rebuttal pillow talk I think. As his wife disfellowshipped since '07 finally waking up he is grateful that this organization didn't take my life being depressed and suicide attempts after being molested raped & nothing done. Side note it was step dad did me my two sisters for yrs & finally told our mom & she jus said u HV to learn truth ... So we HV struggled for yrs now 33/35 to become healthy women wives mothers ourselves. Thanks for hearing my comment/story. & Yes love & finding peace to those who HV died or suffered through sexual abuse /suicide. ❤️
Wow I'm a jw and I'm crying. I've also devoted my life to this organisation and seen first hand many things. I'm getting stronger to realise this is not gods organisation. Thank u for this video. We witnesses need to know the truth, the real truth.
You're not alone, even though it might feel like it right now. Waking up isn't at all easy, and you're an incredible person for being willing to look behind the curtain.
Feeling ya! It’s very very hard to untangle it all. No one can really understand how much fear exists in even talking about it all because the organization was presented as if it is God himself. With time and a lot of support you’ll find your way through the process. Totally advise anyone leaving a high control group to get some good solid therapy, and it’s ok if it’s for years. There are beautiful experiences and discovery’s to be made on the other side.
Yes you are not alone. It's scary but also very reassuring to make this shift away from the organization. I remember when I truly realized that "worldly people" are comprised of good and bad people just like everyone else. They can be loving, caring and have my best interest at heart! It was such a beautiful realization that I wasn't hated by the world and that being part of the world wasn't wrong. You will get there and you are very brave.
@Just Whatever - After listening to this, how on earth can you defend this organization. What these elders did is not just a MISTAKE.. these elders should be prosecuted, along with watchtower. Don’t even bother to respond to my comment!
@Just Whatever - First, the courts don’t play recordings over & over for 5 hours while a 15 yr old cry’s hysterically & begs them to stop!!! What they did to this girl & her family is disgusting AND look what they’ve done to YOU!!! They have taken your empathy, your sympathy & your common sense and deaden it so much that you can’t even see how awful what they do is. You have been “programmed” to defend the organization to the bitter end, no matter what. I’ve seen your comments on other channels & you are as bad as watchtower! This organization has absolutely NOTHING to do with God!!! They destroy peoples lives & then wash their hands of them & go on to the next victim! When elders finally do get hauled into court, where’s watchtower then?? No where.. they will throw them under the bus! If you can’t or even worse, “won’t” see how mind controlled you are after watching this video, there’s no help for you! So you just keep trying to pull us so called apostates back into watchtower, you keep telling others not to listen to us, because you are wasting your time.. ( no amount of hours you put down on that time card is going to pull any of us back) we have opened our eyes to watchtowers evil ways! It’s about time you did the same!
Shining light on this will save others from such brutal psychological treatment. Many have studied and attach to this group without full discloser of what they are signing up for. Those of us who were born in don’t know for a long time that any other choice is available. Jesus, as a model of love, would never have put anyone through judicial committee processes. The original Bible students who seeded this group have become the clergy they so vehemently opposed. I’m so sorry your entire family went through this and I hope your precious daughter can make sense of her experience knowing it was entirely wrong. What a blessed one she is to have a father who loves and cares so much to see this through to becoming free of the oppression being wielded by the force of fear.
They did this to me also, they set you up for rape! I was drugged and they did a gang rape! The police and the system helps them because the JW pay for help
Dave Gracey's story was incredibly upsetting for me to listen to. Dave has a lot of strength to tell his story. I can't believe the abuse he and his family have suffered at the hands of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Shocking is an understatement.
Yet, the Organization during the Australian royal commission kept testifying that the elders instructions are to be caring and considerate to victims of sexual assault and to provide whatever care and help they need. They also kept saying they always believe the victims...seems like that was just a bunch of lies...go figure. This is absolutely disgusting!
I love that Dave's Granddaughter said that.. why would any woman want to be part of an organisation that considers them lesser than men? If women refused to be party to being subjugated by any religion, ALL religions would fall.
Let’s not put the onus on women to take this or any religion down. This is as good as saying that it’s women’s fault that it continues. I’m sure that no one meant to say that but it comes off that way. It reminds me of the saying “happy wife; happy life”. It amounts to saying that if the home is unhappy it’s because the wife isn’t (or can’t be) satisfied. Women don’t always get to set the tone in the home; especially if they are abused or not treated as equal. An unequal power dynamic keeps many women in bad marriages and misogynistic religions.
Absolutely appalling - disgusting! They revictimized this poor young girl in an abusive and unforgivable way! And the loss of his daughter...there are no words. 😢
One of the most heart breaking stories I’ve ever seen involving this organization, I regret ever being a part of it and I blame myself anyone I could have ever possibly roped into it, and I’d take it all back if I could.
Thank you. This channel has helped so much. Sometimes the best therapy is to listen to others who were once "in" and share my thoughts with them. We are all survivors of this cult and reaching out to each other is so therapeutic. I am so grateful for the work that people like Lloyd are doing.
No need to blame yourself. Some of us were born in. We literally had no choice, taught since infancy to behave this way People radically under estimate the power of brain washing and especially when it involves Religion and cults. Give yourself grace (not a religious grace) and recognize you did the best you could with whatever situation you were given. We are out now and that's all that matters.
This is incredibly sad. These uneducated men traumatizing this young girl and entire family. I am so glad I finally woke up and understand all of this sickening nonsense. Thank you, Lloyd for exposing all that you do. And thank you, Dave, for being able to share all the info on 1975 and such a horrific story.
Nothing surprises me about this cult, but this has shocked me to my core. I hope Dave and his family are doing well. The respect I have for you is deep.
I was only 7 in 1975 & I remember the talk that it was the end. I remember one talk that said to kids don’t expect to ride into paradise on your parents’ coattails. I was afraid if I was good enough to make it at even that young age. 😔
I have been saying for years watchtower is an evil spirit mascarading as a religion ( christianity Judaism Islam ) this Thing love slaves and love blood ...read the old testiment.
Who lies on the kitchen floor period??? Oh she's just taking a nap? I'm so confused, hurt, and deeply troubled by this - poor Laura! 😢 Poor Dave, I'm not yet a father, but my heart broke to smithereens to hear this. I'm soooo glad I left, I cannot say enough how disgusting this organization is and everything it represents. I'm even more glad that Dave and Miju left (Miju 💪 "I'm not going back!") and they contacted the authorities. Everyone needs to see how morally bankrupt the JWs are!!!
If I saw any neighbour on the floor like this, irrespective of their race, colour or religion, I would call for immediate help. Yet, here with have an Organisation with people that don’t even look out for their own - one that claims to be the true religion. Well, that’s clearly a lie.
OMG!! I could not stop thinking about that part of the video-how could the woman do that?! She “cares” so much supposedly about this neighbor that she is helping her get to the meetings, etc., but when she sees her having a real problem in her actual REAL life, she feels no responsibility to help her??!!! WTF!!!??? I kept waiting for Dave to say that she came to him with this information, expressing remorse and apologizing, but apparently not?! To leave another human in that situation repeatedly when you have the power to call 911 and potentially save her life-THAT should be a disfellowshipping offense!!!
@@checkthefacts. I remember thinking, what if the sister is threatened with a knife, in case she screams? but apparently, they thought, its better to die and be resurrected. Even the elders ( myself and those i knew) secretly hoped that such a crime never occurs in the congregation, the same about blood transfusion. Perhaps i was too naive. I never liked to hear about any sexual « sin » nor did i like judicial meeting.
@@disassociated1731 I remember the knife and screaming scenario too,how awful,I mean for someone to go through a terrible experience like that and then get judgement rather than help and support is really bad psychological abuse
Thats a very good question. They really should have been charged for having a listening party. The 18 year old that made it should have been charged with creating CP!
She went to the meeting! It would have been discussed there 😠 I’ve no idea how Dave has coped with all of this. All that’s happened, and on top of that STILL must have believed it must have been god’s organisation throughout most of it. That’s some DEEP and destructive manipulative brainwashing.
How quickly the elders shift blame. I can relate, as my own daughter was a victim of sexual assault and pivoted the blame from the perpetrator to victims. Amazing story, thank you for sharing it.
If I wasn’t already out, I would be after this. I know the pain of losing a child, but not in circumstances like this. Dave and Miju.. sending you all my respect and love. Words just fail me.
Here is to Rita. Sending love to you and admiration to you. As an ex-JW and a father of 2 daughters, this story rings true and is just heart breaking. I am so sorry you went through this. I do admire that you are fighting back through the court. From victim, to survivor to champion. I am sure it has been a hard journey, but for whatever this is worth, I am sending you love, support and a big, long hug.
These elders are practicing therapy without training or licenses. This is outrageous. I was JW for 26 years. Have been out for 25 and I'm now a practicing psychotherapist that specializes in trauma including sexual assault and abuse as well as helping ex-cult members. I hope this family finds peace and I hope they are suing the WTS.
This reminds me of being a child and every time my parents suspected me of doing something “wrong” they would threaten to tell all of the elders and subsequently the entire congregation would find out. I feel so so bad for this poor girl. It really is a form of terrorism and she must have issues with CPTSD :(
The "truth" destroyed my childhood and still affects me today at 50 years old. I'm sure all the children raised in the JW cult you remember school being pure hell. We had to sit out all things that had to do with any holidays at school having teachers try and sneak gifts to us because they felt bad. Children making fun of us and if they ever forgot we were a member of a cult we were forced to remind them EVERY morning that we were not allowed to salute the flag.
For an organisation obsessed with the concept of not bringing reproach upon Jehovah's name their warped concept of justice does a far better job of bringing reproach upon their crazy , inhuman system
GOD does not need protection from humans. Parents are there to protect them . As a mother, it is our obligation to give it our all to protect them. The Elders work for the Watchtower . They will protect it so the JWS. Will not stop their donations. They will not change their policies to mandatory report child abuse. The Pedophiles will be protected by this and they know it. Parents report Child Sexual Abuse please! Elders do not Love your Children like you do, it is your obligation to seek justice for them.
@@80sWavrDude no?? i think you're reading too much into his closing statements. he enjoyed talking to his friend! and absolutely not. videos that cover the subject of rape get little to no monetization.
What a loving organisation 🙄Disfelowshiping someone someone for being a victim of a horrific crime after blaming them for causing it. Then marking someone for standing up for the victim 💔💔 So glad I have never been a part of this "loving" organisation 😡😡😡
I have, kinda relieved that the point that pushed me to waking up was being judged and questioned of past mistakes by elders because i drank half bottle of vodka, and months after i get suggested by youtube the tony morris whiskey video. I couldn't imagine what would i do if i had to pass through 5 hours of listening me being raped in front of my parents.
I just couldn’t watch this video at once, I had to take breaks because it’s so.... I can’t even describe it. Imagining the daughter’s pain and trauma makes my heart literally aching. I’m so so deeply sorry for what the whole family had to go through..... I’m sending you all a lot of love
The GB has taken away every humanity on its supporters. This organization is cruel and sick. I’m glad I woke up. My prayers and support to all its victims
Ty Andrea for your compassion 🙂. This cult has destroyed my life and something similar to that happened to me and I told my mother and she told me to shut up I'm a liar. I'm 57 and I'm on antidepressant meds and I will be for life.
This took so much emotional courage for him to share this. I admire him very much for sharing so much painful information that is so important for others to hear. Thank you Dave Gracey.
I met Dave and Miju at the Lake Tahoe Apostafest and heard a little bit of their story but not the details that this interview has brought out. What HORRIFIC situations they have been put through and that sick JW Cult still arrogantly defies every shred of decency and human compassion. "Love never fails"??? Love NEVER existed in JW and my personal situation also testifies to that. Both Dave and Miju are wonderful people and they are both badasses. I hope they finally get some Justice down the road.
Brave brave man. I've had my own horrible experiences with elders psychologically/mentally/emotionally abusing me, but what your family went through should be made into a documentary! Thankfully I woke up 30 years ago and got out.
i relate totally to this story, i was appointed as an elder at age 22, at the same time as Dave...and very soon became the unique elder in a congregation... also remembering the 100 h per month as a regular pioneer. Fortunately, i resigned and DA sooner as him:) so i got my children out of the cult, which i consider as one of my best achievements in my life
@@realkef yes, i agree, this was at the beginning of the elders arrangement, before they had only the overseer, and two others for judicial committee. You could be a helper to theocratic ministry school as young as 17, if you were a good teacher. As a pioneer you could be asked also to go to a congregation with problems, which had led to the removal of the ( old) overseer...But i was definitively too young, and also a too young father at this time. They took all of our youth:(
@@carolsimpson4422 no, i had a few classical « adulterous » men, repentant and already forgiven by their wife...And some fellow elders who disassociated especially in the 80s after Ray Franz s book. To be honest, i did not even know that sex abuse existed among jw, at least in my country, or in my district. I dont remember that we ever spoke of this, even in kingdom ministry school or other special meetings for elders. But this was 50 years ago.
But yet they parents allowed it to happen. I have a hard time understanding being so brainwashed you sit and allow that to happen to your child for 5 hours.
@@cindybydesign Can ask you for a little sympathy?. He explained that at the time his greatest fear was that his daughter would be disfellowshipped. Do you know who are the ones who decide that? The elders at the request of the watchtower.
@@cindybydesign Please stop blaming the victims of this sect. It is clear that no sane father would harm his daughters in this way. He trusted that the "trial" would be fair and he was misled.
@@URPndJs I know what you're saying and I do have sympathy for all the horrible things that happened, but how devastating for the child, her parents sat by and let her be interrogated like a criminal for 5 hours and even after that still kowtowed to the organization. How can she ever feel safe or trust anyone if even her own parents can't be counted on to protect her? They could have literally walked out and stopped it at anytime. Insanity.
As bad as what happened to his step daughter, I'm most horrified by what happened to his daughter. For all we know, she might have just been unconscious at that time. How could she just ignore her like that? How could anyone do that?? How hard is it to dial 911?
We all can say that such dangerous acts of abuse is unforgivable but only Jehovah can judge. I don't condone abuse at all an I would hold a bro or sis accountable for their actions because they have destroyed someone's life maliciously.
So many people in organisation still view these men as God’s spirit appointed elders whereas many of them should be in prison for their manipulative behaviour.
Dave I'm so sorry about all you have been through and the loss of your daughter. Thank you for sharing your story. I'm so happy that you can enjoy your family with "unconditional" love! I left when I was 18 and have been out for 30 years! It's a big beautiful world out there with kind people. 😊
@@who_the_fuck_is_riley5813 I just can't imagine how people like you feel when hearing about these things. It feels kind of embarrassing now that I'm awake to know how entrenched I was. We must look really stupid to you guys.
@@Freeeeeeeee27 I don't think you look stupid. Like you said, you were entrenched in the organization. I was raised in a Baptist church environment and was hardcore religious until like middle school, so I can see how that influences one's life. I only got a taste, thankfully, but I can see why people believe these things when their social lives and families depend on it.
@@Freeeeeeeee27 As a person who was in Pentecostal cults I do understand your embarrassment, but I would echo what others have said. that you have nothing to feel embarrassed about. Anyone can end up indoctrinated, either into religion or another group. I think I can speak for the majority of Lloyd’s audience who were never in by saying that we are happy that you are free to live your life. I hope that you and other exJWs have managed to find some happiness.
"There is no real love in Jehovah's organization" says everything you need to know about Jehovah's Witnesses. Dave you have helped so many people telling your story because it lets those of us that felt the same lack of love that we weren't the only ones. I remember feeling it was me, I wasn't pleasing Jehovah so he was letting me know thru his holy spirit based organization, in the end we all just felt the effects of window washer hillbillies.
Jeffrey that is how we felt until we started do our research and meeting other ex jw's and found out through online videos and reading ex jw's stories that it is endemic to the entire org
What a revolting story. I'm a lifelong, 2nd generation atheist who watches this channel in fascinated horror. My best wishes to the whole wonderful family. I hope they can heal and continue to bring good from their heartbreaking experiences.
I can't even imagine... I am so incredibly sorry for your daughter and yourself. I'm happy to hear that you were able to leave this unbelievably sick and disgusting cult.
I believe you totally. Something like this happened to my own sister and she was 14 at the time. We weren't allowed to go to the police the elders made that very clear. I tried to get other elders involved from another congregation and they all concocted a story that my 14 year old sister asked for it. Disgusting. Of course she didn't! !!!
43:22 That nurse's behavior is a violation of HIPAA law. Medical organizations fire people for breaking HIPAA law. The nurse and possibly the organization can be sued by the daughter.
Generally I dont understand how they allow members of cults that go against the Hippocratic oath, the fundamental principle of Medicine, practicing in the US.
I can almost imagine how a deeply misguided zealot could think playing that tape would be a good idea - But to keep going for 5 hours while an obviously traumatized child is crying and begging you to stop ... What kind of person does that? How can a whole group of people do this and live with themselves? I think that's exactly the kind of unfeeling, merciless mindset a rapist would have.
This is disgusting. I'm gonna say it again, Jehovah's witnesses don't know what love is. As a father of daughters myself I can only imagine what kind of absolute RAGE he must have been feeling when the elders played that tape. Disgusting, there is no excuse for that.
Misogyny to a new plateau. Control by ignorant and authoritarian people for some kind of weird God and org. And marking someone for trying to get help. The literature and talks from stage always attribute or calls it trials and a test of faith. To keep you in. And to listened to the dreaded, mentally diseased apostates! After listening to the first 5 or 6 "apostate" you tubers, I felt real love for apostates.
@VideoAudioDisco09 He clarified what happened with the '75 prediction. Also they drill people with such insensitivity. The death of his daughter by suicide was too sad. Not there to shepherd the flock or se the appearance as to bind up the wounds. I do not believe all elders are like that. By ignorant I meant their lack of knowledge in dealing with these serious issues. Their head is only filled with Shephard the Flock book- that is their realty that explains everything. I have good memories but also a lot of stress. I clean for a living, actually tried to be able to go in a different direction- which failed and added to exhaustion and stress. We(I) was lulled into acceptance and complacency- everything is temporary, Jehovah is looking over us, and rely on him. That is one of the more serious plight I find myself in.
This is beyond words. I cant imagine what this poor child went through. These elders need jail time because of the abuse. And then his eldest daughter that committed suicide???? Both Dave and his wife really went through HELL. ALL BECAUSE OF THESE JW'S. I was born and raised in this toxic organization and no one gives any respect to those people going through difficulties.
I have one thing to say...I grew up being taught that you will be able to recognize the true religion by the love they have for one another...it DEFINITELY IS NOT JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!
It took me a few days to prepare myself to watch this. As a SA survivor, I cannot even FATHOM being forced to listen to it! It’s shocking and repulsive. They need to be held accountable somehow for putting this poor young lady through this trauma again.
Wow, so incredibly sad. I’m fully awake now and getting the HELL OUT ASAP! Thankful my husband and children saw through the BS and never wanted anything to do with “The Truth”. Thank you for your brave story.
Bro I had to hold back tears while I'm at work listening to this. You sir went through so much pain. And I couldn't believe having to be told that my daughter possibly laid dead on the floor for like 3 days and that old bitty of a sister never thought "maybe there's something wrong" when seeing a young woman sprawled out on the god damn kitchen floor. That's so heartbreaking
I had to hold back the tears listening to Dave’ story and the family’s fight for justice - heartbreaking and showing the Watchtower in their true colours. The actions of the Elders are in my view a clear case of child abuse - it may not have been physical but the effects and damage are no less than the original rape. HQ in New York can’t wash their hands of this - they know exactly what’s happened and yet there is no one iota or remorse, or sympathy, for the family. How can this be a spirit directed Organisation? Stephen Lett can stand up and deny that the Organisation is permissive towards child abuse, but the reality is that they are complicit in conducting it through their Organisation. Truly shocking.
This is just madness , hope this lady has recover from these traumas .... I do not know if that is even possible. Edit .... I have finished the video ...... I am so sorry ..... I have no other words
I sent a voicemail, but I didn't even cover half of what happened in this "religion" that I was raised in. The sexual abuse cover ups within the hall, the shaming if you got assaulted outside, the shunning, the indoctrination "make sure you take your notes" "make sure you study your material so you can preach better" "we're doing sign language classes so we can reach more people; make sure you learn" "don't let anything interfere with your meetings" I can't stand it. I left my full name. I faded out, but since 2017, the elders were telling my parents that I should've been disfellowshipped. Only reason I know is because my dad wasn't as indoctrinated and he was angry at that statement, and let me know.
I am disgusted and furious on so many levels with this story. This young woman's entire life on every level has been irreparable. The " society " is so sick spiritually they are not even on life support. They are the disease. I can't believe this father would even have anything to do with the society anymore. What a unbelievable nightmare. I pray for this young woman. 🙏
I have no words. Such a horrific situation! I have 14 year old daughters, I can't imagine going through something like this with them. Thank you for sharing your story. Sending your family loads of love xx
1:00:57 Elders mistakenly ask Dave's youngest amazing granddaughter, ( whom was 17 at the time ) *"Why aren't you baptized like your older sister?"* Dave's youngest amazing granddaughter replied, *"When you let sister's be elders and sit in on Judicial Meetings, then I'll think about it."* ❤👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼❤ ☝🏼 *From ApostaBabe Linda James.* ☝🏼
This is an incredibly sad yet thought provoking account i remember someone saying to me some time back be careful what you buy into I now question everything I always like to listen to your program Lloyd it's very enlightening
I thought I knew a lot about this organization, having been married to one. However, this goes beyond anything that I imagined. The fact that this man could still want to be a part of it speaks of the tremendous psychological hold that it has on its members.
Dave. Honestly props to you for getting your daughter mental health support while in the cult. I know personally my parents viewed psychiatrists and therapists as a part of the world and an unacceptable option when I was horrendously depressed. And honestly I do fully believe that if I had access to proper counsoling it might have turned out better. I've never personally dealt with SA but I've absolutely seen it mess people up. Especially at 15 and with that horrendous treatment. I sincerely hope she is doing better today
So deeply sorry for your loss. I’m commenting along the way as i listen and I am completely horrified at the outcome and loss of your sweet girl . Sending you so much heart and care. The blood on the hands of this organization will be called to an account!
I'm so glad that you were able to do this interview. When I first heard about this case I was heartbroken. My heart goes out to this man and his family, both of his daughters were treated with such malice. Them speaking out has and will continue to resonate with others on their journey.
This was brutal to watch, but I'm glad I did. So much courage here. What an incredible family to have suffered so much and come out fighting. Dave Gracey, you are indeed an inspiration. It feels good to be on the same side as people like you and your amazing family. Thanks Lloyd for yet another sensitively handled interview.
Just when you think you’ve heard it all, another devastating wave of abusive, coercive, manipulative behaviour comes crashing down on the people Watchtower is meant to protect. 💔
Being a SA survivor myself if this was done to me it would have killed me. I wouldn’t have been able to handle it myself. I can’t believe the disgusting ignorance of a group of obviously PERVERSE men listening to a sexual assault for their JOLLIES! You can’t tell me they didn’t get off to it just like her ropiest!
Dave, I felt your pain. I was part of the cult for decades. My only son is shunning me since 2017. I pray to my God that he wakes up & hopefully he is free from the cult.
Thank you so much for this conversation with Dave. Dave reached out to me at one point a couple years ago in regards to my activism. His open mind foundation is just wonderful and he is a wonderful person human being. This whole story rocks me to the core. My disfellowshipping was quite the ordeal, and stood out in my mind as extreme, until I heard this one. This is just awful and a perfect representation of how disgusting that organization is. The immense affect all of this has had on Dave and his entire family. Very hard to articulate the emotion of how hearing this whole story makes an ex witness feel. Anyways, please do me a huge favor and tell Dave hello and thank him from the bottom of my heart for exposing his vulnerability to benefit others to hopefully stay away from this evil, ingenious system of mind control cult. Please tell him it’s worth it. Thank you for everything you do Lloyd as well.
Dave you are an inspiration _ given all you have been through, your resilience, kindness and compassion shine through. Lloyd it would be such a treat for you to interview Dave's wife! Please!
I expect you remember the legal case in Manchester England, where elders made a victim face her abuser. The Charity Commission told WT in no uncertain terms that it was a breach of human rights and a breach of Charity rules or similar.
This was absolutely sickening. It takes years of training to interview rape victims. The elders' arrogance is unbelievable. I don't understand how they can look themselves in the mirror. Destroy a child's life for what purpose? How can the JWs who are listening to this accept this as Jehovah's will?
The being pulled back and being reproved for talking to her disfellowshipped fleshly Sister is unhinged enough, but as for the reason for that disfellowshipping, that of being r*p*d at 14, then ALL the rest, is beyond sickening. So unnecessary that this family have had to go through all of this. ALL down to wt policies. Sympathies, and love out to you Dave, and your family.
Dearest Dave, Sending you thanks and much love to you and your family. These things are so sad that you all have had to cope with, and your generosity in sharing about it all to help others, is very very much appreciated. I love you all and wish your lives can be wonderful every day. My favorite part of this great interview is hearing about how your fantastic wife is a force to be reckoned with!
The untrained, unqualified male elders listened to the tape of an assault on a 14 yr. old girl how many times? And then played it in front of the parents & victim??!! Shouldn't they be on a sex offenders' list?
Shame on those Elders!!! That poor child. 😢 what was the Elders payoff? They themselves are perverted at the price of this child. Rape is a crime! Why didn't they report it to the police so the Child could have gotten professional help. This crime should never have kept quiet. When the police don't do anything about you get counseling and the counselor is a mandatory reporter. Parents please protect your children. Do not go to the Elders! Poor Girl 5 hours of mental torture from the Elders. I hope that the rapist gets jail time and as for the Elders I hope they get charge with the crime of not mandatory reporting and keeping a crime secret. Watchtower has a legal department that they call for advice. A religion that does not report rape or child abuse cases is not the true religion. Don't let children fall into something like this again Parents. To many secrets are kept by this organization. Mr. GRACEY THE WATCHTOWER POLICIES ARE SO UNJUST. I THANK YOU FOR TALKING about this. This will help alot of people so that they will not fall into the trap of the Watchtower/JWS.
Why
Every adult involved in that child's torture should suffer consequences
Yes absolutely 💯
Just what I was thinking,Meghan. Why FOUR elders? Usually two or three at most. One can only guess why. Why listen to it over and over again? That poor young girl would have been traumatised for life, I truly hope that this isn't the case .
I'd like to think that they didn't know exactly what they were doing but they knew alright. This was torture of a child for their own gratification. I don't know what the outcome of this case against them, but I hope that they're all prosecuted and shamed along with the Watchtower for backing them.
How can this organisation keep being viewed as mainstream religion? They need to be brought down for good.
That time WILL come!
"She killed herself after that meeting." - I had to pause, because his tears and those words made me cry too, and then seethe with such anger at this abusive cult. There are just no words.
Likewise.
I cried with him I have known Dave my whole life. He was my elder in roy.
That poor girl. I can’t imagine what that’s like. Those “elders” deserve a long prison sentence
It sounds as if they get off on hearing the sexual encounters. I've watched a few videos where the individuals were asked by the elders to describe and recount their sexual encounters in detail. Sick!
They get off on it for sure.
Prison is reserved for harden criminals, I wouldnt put the elders in that category lol. Plus that would play into the whole persecution complex.
What they really need is strong therapy to wake them up and show them what they are doing is not ok and is severely damaging to people. Remember elders are trapped in a cult too, we were all there.
@@Denariusjay agreed jail may not be appropriate. But when I was a young woman I was “counseled” for my loose morals (lol) and the questions they asked and the interest they showed in intimate details was unsettling. I took a big step back from the organization after that
@@Denariusjay They can get counseling in prison or jail...
😞 *moment of silence for all those that have lost their lives because of this cult* 🙏
Yes my mother did she lost her life
*hello*
@@Sweet_silence hi 🌻
@@anndarnell9725 😢😥
My husband jus said this today listening to Lloyd rebuttal pillow talk I think. As his wife disfellowshipped since '07 finally waking up he is grateful that this organization didn't take my life being depressed and suicide attempts after being molested raped & nothing done. Side note it was step dad did me my two sisters for yrs & finally told our mom & she jus said u HV to learn truth ... So we HV struggled for yrs now 33/35 to become healthy women wives mothers ourselves. Thanks for hearing my comment/story. & Yes love & finding peace to those who HV died or suffered through sexual abuse /suicide. ❤️
Wow I'm a jw and I'm crying. I've also devoted my life to this organisation and seen first hand many things. I'm getting stronger to realise this is not gods organisation.
Thank u for this video. We witnesses need to know the truth, the real truth.
You're not alone, even though it might feel like it right now. Waking up isn't at all easy, and you're an incredible person for being willing to look behind the curtain.
Feeling ya! It’s very very hard to untangle it all. No one can really understand how much fear exists in even talking about it all because the organization was presented as if it is God himself. With time and a lot of support you’ll find your way through the process. Totally advise anyone leaving a high control group to get some good solid therapy, and it’s ok if it’s for years. There are beautiful experiences and discovery’s to be made on the other side.
Yes you are not alone. It's scary but also very reassuring to make this shift away from the organization. I remember when I truly realized that "worldly people" are comprised of good and bad people just like everyone else. They can be loving, caring and have my best interest at heart! It was such a beautiful realization that I wasn't hated by the world and that being part of the world wasn't wrong. You will get there and you are very brave.
@Just Whatever - After listening to this, how on earth can you defend this organization. What these elders did is not just a MISTAKE.. these elders should be prosecuted, along with watchtower. Don’t even bother to respond to my comment!
@Just Whatever - First, the courts don’t play recordings over & over for 5 hours while a 15 yr old cry’s hysterically & begs them to stop!!! What they did to this girl & her family is disgusting AND look what they’ve done to YOU!!! They have taken your empathy, your sympathy & your common sense and deaden it so much that you can’t even see how awful what they do is. You have been “programmed” to defend the organization to the bitter end, no matter what. I’ve seen your comments on other channels & you are as bad as watchtower! This organization has absolutely NOTHING to do with God!!! They destroy peoples lives & then wash their hands of them & go on to the next victim! When elders finally do get hauled into court, where’s watchtower then?? No where.. they will throw them under the bus! If you can’t or even worse, “won’t” see how mind controlled you are after watching this video, there’s no help for you! So you just keep trying to pull us so called apostates back into watchtower, you keep telling others not to listen to us, because you are wasting your time.. ( no amount of hours you put down on that time card is going to pull any of us back) we have opened our eyes to watchtowers evil ways! It’s about time you did the same!
This has to stop. It absolutely must. Not another child, family or human being should ever have to endure this .
Bad too bad
Shining light on this will save others from such brutal psychological treatment. Many have studied and attach to this group without full discloser of what they are signing up for. Those of us who were born in don’t know for a long time that any other choice is available. Jesus, as a model of love, would never have put anyone through judicial committee processes. The original Bible students who seeded this group have become the clergy they so vehemently opposed. I’m so sorry your entire family went through this and I hope your precious daughter can make sense of her experience knowing it was entirely wrong. What a blessed one she is to have a father who loves and cares so much to see this through to becoming free of the oppression being wielded by the force of fear.
Agreed.
They did this to me also, they set you up for rape! I was drugged and they did a gang rape! The police and the system helps them because the JW pay for help
@@lovelysosweet8386 😢😥 I'm so sorry 😞
Dave Gracey's story was incredibly upsetting for me to listen to. Dave has a lot of strength to tell his story. I can't believe the abuse he and his family have suffered at the hands of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Shocking is an understatement.
My family story is very similar.
@@jennamartinelli5814 😥😢 so sorry
We will all be avenged sooner or later just stay strong and no matter what remember, you are worth it, you deserve peace and happiness!
Yet, the Organization during the Australian royal commission kept testifying that the elders instructions are to be caring and considerate to victims of sexual assault and to provide whatever care and help they need. They also kept saying they always believe the victims...seems like that was just a bunch of lies...go figure. This is absolutely disgusting!
I love that Dave's Granddaughter said that.. why would any woman want to be part of an organisation that considers them lesser than men? If women refused to be party to being subjugated by any religion, ALL religions would fall.
Agree but when will women realize this…
Let’s not put the onus on women to take this or any religion down. This is as good as saying that it’s women’s fault that it continues. I’m sure that no one meant to say that but it comes off that way. It reminds me of the saying “happy wife; happy life”. It amounts to saying that if the home is unhappy it’s because the wife isn’t (or can’t be) satisfied. Women don’t always get to set the tone in the home; especially if they are abused or not treated as equal. An unequal power dynamic keeps many women in bad marriages and misogynistic religions.
The problem is we cant explain. There is no right definition for submission. They just talk. I don't know what that means.
Absolutely appalling - disgusting! They revictimized this poor young girl in an abusive and unforgivable way! And the loss of his daughter...there are no words. 😢
One of the most heart breaking stories I’ve ever seen involving this organization, I regret ever being a part of it and I blame myself anyone I could have ever possibly roped into it, and I’d take it all back if I could.
I know exactly how you feel. The only person I roped in was my then husband.
@solomon & queen sheba especially when he broke down I didn’t think this organization can get any worse but the never miss the opportunity to amaze
@@barbaramullins4233 I’m really sorry that you have to go through this, I hope you find love in someone else and resist the urge to blame yourself
Thank you. This channel has helped so much. Sometimes the best therapy is to listen to others who were once "in" and share my thoughts with them. We are all survivors of this cult and reaching out to each other is so therapeutic. I am so grateful for the work that people like Lloyd are doing.
No need to blame yourself. Some of us were born in. We literally had no choice, taught since infancy to behave this way
People radically under estimate the power of brain washing and especially when it involves Religion and cults. Give yourself grace (not a religious grace) and recognize you did the best you could with whatever situation you were given. We are out now and that's all that matters.
This is incredibly sad. These uneducated men traumatizing this young girl and entire family. I am so glad I finally woke up and understand all of this sickening nonsense. Thank you, Lloyd for exposing all that you do. And thank you, Dave, for being able to share all the info on 1975 and such a horrific story.
In my opinion it is pure evil. And not that they are uneducated.
Nothing surprises me about this cult, but this has shocked me to my core. I hope Dave and his family are doing well. The respect I have for you is deep.
I was only 7 in 1975 & I remember the talk that it was the end. I remember one talk that said to kids don’t expect to ride into paradise on your parents’ coattails. I was afraid if I was good enough to make it at even that young age. 😔
I have been saying for years watchtower is an evil spirit mascarading as a religion ( christianity Judaism Islam ) this Thing love slaves and love blood ...read the old testiment.
@@lionslove779 me too!
I was bornin during 1965....I never thought I would make it to age 17 and graduate.
@@thinkingman2020 The best, is yet to come!
🥺
Who lies on the kitchen floor period??? Oh she's just taking a nap? I'm so confused, hurt, and deeply troubled by this - poor Laura! 😢 Poor Dave, I'm not yet a father, but my heart broke to smithereens to hear this.
I'm soooo glad I left, I cannot say enough how disgusting this organization is and everything it represents. I'm even more glad that Dave and Miju left (Miju 💪 "I'm not going back!") and they contacted the authorities. Everyone needs to see how morally bankrupt the JWs are!!!
Yes. Why didn't they do something the first time she was seen on the floor? But to do nothing on the second & subsequent times is just unfathomable!
If I saw any neighbour on the floor like this, irrespective of their race, colour or religion, I would call for immediate help. Yet, here with have an Organisation with people that don’t even look out for their own - one that claims to be the true religion. Well, that’s clearly a lie.
OMG!! I could not stop thinking about that part of the video-how could the woman do that?! She “cares” so much supposedly about this neighbor that she is helping her get to the meetings, etc., but when she sees her having a real problem in her actual REAL life, she feels no responsibility to help her??!!! WTF!!!??? I kept waiting for Dave to say that she came to him with this information, expressing remorse and apologizing, but apparently not?! To leave another human in that situation repeatedly when you have the power to call 911 and potentially save her life-THAT should be a disfellowshipping offense!!!
That woman was all types of an ahole. All she cared about was getting to church 🤪
@@videofan1010 It left me with my jaw hanging!
I am only half way through and this is already one of the most horrible stories I've ever heard.
I'm about halfway through to, and this is truly disturbing.
Me too.
they used to say: if a woman is raped and did not scream she would be considered as a willing participant!
Very true, that was repeated again and again when I was a witness, so awful
I wonder if Joseph “screamed” when Potiphar’s wife supposedly came on to him
@@checkthefacts. I remember thinking, what if the sister is threatened with a knife, in case she screams? but apparently, they thought, its better to die and be resurrected. Even the elders ( myself and those i knew) secretly hoped that such a crime never occurs in the congregation, the same about blood transfusion. Perhaps i was too naive. I never liked to hear about any sexual « sin » nor did i like judicial meeting.
That was used against me as well. I WAS 7 YEARS OLD.
@@disassociated1731 I remember the knife and screaming scenario too,how awful,I mean for someone to go through a terrible experience like that and then get judgement rather than help and support is really bad psychological abuse
How are those elders not guilty of possessing/distributing CP?
Thats a very good question. They really should have been charged for having a listening party. The 18 year old that made it should have been charged with creating CP!
BINGO!
Utah law doesn't count audio as CP 🤬
Good question.
They are guilty for sure
The woman left his daughter on the floor! What a heartless organisation. So sorry for your loss
She went to the meeting! It would have been discussed there 😠
I’ve no idea how Dave has coped with all of this. All that’s happened, and on top of that STILL must have believed it must have been god’s organisation throughout most of it. That’s some DEEP and destructive manipulative brainwashing.
@@Letts_prey I know absolutely disgusting
How quickly the elders shift blame. I can relate, as my own daughter was a victim of sexual assault and pivoted the blame from the perpetrator to victims. Amazing story, thank you for sharing it.
If I wasn’t already out, I would be after this.
I know the pain of losing a child, but not in circumstances like this.
Dave and Miju.. sending you all my respect and love.
Words just fail me.
So pleased Dave Gracey has done this heartfelt interview, so needs to be heard. ❤️
Here is to Rita. Sending love to you and admiration to you. As an ex-JW and a father of 2 daughters, this story rings true and is just heart breaking. I am so sorry you went through this. I do admire that you are fighting back through the court. From victim, to survivor to champion. I am sure it has been a hard journey, but for whatever this is worth, I am sending you love, support and a big, long hug.
These elders are practicing therapy without training or licenses. This is outrageous. I was JW for 26 years. Have been out for 25 and I'm now a practicing psychotherapist that specializes in trauma including sexual assault and abuse as well as helping ex-cult members. I hope this family finds peace and I hope they are suing the WTS.
It's been in the courts for the last 5 years Still ongoing
That isnt therapy, thats borderline torture
This reminds me of being a child and every time my parents suspected me of doing something “wrong” they would threaten to tell all of the elders and subsequently the entire congregation would find out. I feel so so bad for this poor girl. It really is a form of terrorism and she must have issues with CPTSD :(
Omg me too! I was threatened so much that I packed my bags at age 17 and never looked back
The "truth" destroyed my childhood and still affects me today at 50 years old.
I'm sure all the children raised in the JW cult you remember school being pure hell. We had to sit out all things that had to do with any holidays at school having teachers try and sneak gifts to us because they felt bad. Children making fun of us and if they ever forgot we were a member of a cult we were forced to remind them EVERY morning that we were not allowed to salute the flag.
There needs to be more lawsuits against the organization.
It is ongoing
For an organisation obsessed with the concept of not bringing reproach upon Jehovah's name their warped concept of justice does a far better job of bringing reproach upon their crazy , inhuman system
GOD does not need protection from humans. Parents are there to protect them . As a mother, it is our obligation to give it our all to protect them. The Elders work for the Watchtower . They will protect it so the JWS. Will not stop their donations. They will not change their policies to mandatory report child abuse. The Pedophiles will be protected by this and they know it. Parents report Child Sexual Abuse please! Elders do not Love your Children like you do, it is your obligation to seek justice for them.
his poor, poor daughter. it’s actually sickening to hear
I feel sooo bad for this girl.
@@80sWavrDude Uhhh. What? That's all you got from this entire video?..wow.
@@80sWavrDude no?? i think you're reading too much into his closing statements. he enjoyed talking to his friend! and absolutely not. videos that cover the subject of rape get little to no monetization.
@@videofan1010 a
What a loving organisation 🙄Disfelowshiping someone someone for being a victim of a horrific crime after blaming them for causing it. Then marking someone for standing up for the victim 💔💔
So glad I have never been a part of this "loving" organisation 😡😡😡
I have, kinda relieved that the point that pushed me to waking up was being judged and questioned of past mistakes by elders because i drank half bottle of vodka, and months after i get suggested by youtube the tony morris whiskey video. I couldn't imagine what would i do if i had to pass through 5 hours of listening me being raped in front of my parents.
I just couldn’t watch this video at once, I had to take breaks because it’s so.... I can’t even describe it. Imagining the daughter’s pain and trauma makes my heart literally aching. I’m so so deeply sorry for what the whole family had to go through..... I’m sending you all a lot of love
Yes. me too
The GB has taken away every humanity on its supporters. This organization is cruel and sick. I’m glad I woke up. My prayers and support to all its victims
I’m among the 40% of never-ins who have been a cult watcher for years. I’m so sickened by this horrid abuse. May you find peace in your freedom. ✌🏼❤️
Hi how are you?
Ty Andrea for your compassion 🙂. This cult has destroyed my life and something similar to that happened to me and I told my mother and she told me to shut up I'm a liar. I'm 57 and I'm on antidepressant meds and I will be for life.
This took so much emotional courage for him to share this. I admire him very much for sharing so much painful information that is so important for others to hear. Thank you Dave Gracey.
How are you?
No parent should have to bury their child.
I met Dave and Miju at the Lake Tahoe Apostafest and heard a little bit of their story but not the details that this interview has brought out. What HORRIFIC situations they have been put through and that sick JW Cult still arrogantly defies every shred of decency and human compassion. "Love never fails"??? Love NEVER existed in JW and my personal situation also testifies to that. Both Dave and Miju are wonderful people and they are both badasses. I hope they finally get some Justice down the road.
Thanks Jeff and congrats to you and Heidi
@@gabrielmoralesgonzalez6471 Hi Gabriel, yes I am doing well thanks for asking 😊 I hope you are as well.
Brave brave man. I've had my own horrible experiences with elders psychologically/mentally/emotionally abusing me, but what your family went through should be made into a documentary! Thankfully I woke up 30 years ago and got out.
i relate totally to this story, i was appointed as an elder at age 22, at the same time as Dave...and very soon became the unique elder in a congregation... also remembering the 100 h per month as a regular pioneer. Fortunately, i resigned and DA sooner as him:) so i got my children out of the cult, which i consider as one of my best achievements in my life
22 is a bit young 🤔
I'm curious if you had to deal with sex abuse as an elder, and how you handled it at the time?
@@realkef yes, i agree, this was at the beginning of the elders arrangement, before they had only the overseer, and two others for judicial committee. You could be a helper to theocratic ministry school as young as 17, if you were a good teacher. As a pioneer you could be asked also to go to a congregation with problems, which had led to the removal of the ( old) overseer...But i was definitively too young, and also a too young father at this time. They took all of our youth:(
@@carolsimpson4422 no, i had a few classical « adulterous » men, repentant and already forgiven by their wife...And some fellow elders who disassociated especially in the 80s after Ray Franz s book. To be honest, i did not even know that sex abuse existed among jw, at least in my country, or in my district. I dont remember that we ever spoke of this, even in kingdom ministry school or other special meetings for elders. But this was 50 years ago.
@@disassociated1731 yeah I was basically a full time reader at the bookstudy at 10 and on Sunday for the Watchtower almost every Sunday when I was 12.
It must have been devastating sitting there defenseless and reliving the aggression in front of your family. 💔
I honestly estly would punch all the elders one by one
But yet they parents allowed it to happen. I have a hard time understanding being so brainwashed you sit and allow that to happen to your child for 5 hours.
@@cindybydesign Can ask you for a little sympathy?. He explained that at the time his greatest fear was that his daughter would be disfellowshipped. Do you know who are the ones who decide that? The elders at the request of the watchtower.
@@cindybydesign Please stop blaming the victims of this sect. It is clear that no sane father would harm his daughters in this way. He trusted that the "trial" would be fair and he was misled.
@@URPndJs I know what you're saying and I do have sympathy for all the horrible things that happened, but how devastating for the child, her parents sat by and let her be interrogated like a criminal for 5 hours and even after that still kowtowed to the organization. How can she ever feel safe or trust anyone if even her own parents can't be counted on to protect her? They could have literally walked out and stopped it at anytime. Insanity.
I hope I live to see this organization's DAY OF RECKONING!!!!
As bad as what happened to his step daughter, I'm most horrified by what happened to his daughter. For all we know, she might have just been unconscious at that time. How could she just ignore her like that? How could anyone do that?? How hard is it to dial 911?
My point exactly absolutely shocking
And he didnt even make a scene....
Destroying a young person's life is unforgivable.
Destroying anyone’s life is unforgivable. But the young ones? All those involved need to burn in Hell, but forever, wouldn’t be long enough.
We all can say that such dangerous acts of abuse is unforgivable but only Jehovah can judge.
I don't condone abuse at all an I would hold a bro or sis accountable for their actions because they have destroyed someone's life maliciously.
So many people in organisation still view these men as God’s spirit appointed elders whereas many of them should be in prison for their manipulative behaviour.
Dave I'm so sorry about all you have been through and the loss of your daughter. Thank you for sharing your story. I'm so happy that you can enjoy your family with "unconditional" love! I left when I was 18 and have been out for 30 years! It's a big beautiful world out there with kind people. 😊
40% of your viewers are never JWs!? So much love to you all! I'm tearing up thinking about it. People actually care!
Never been a JW, but I stand by all of the ex-JWs who had to deal with this awful organization.
@@who_the_fuck_is_riley5813 I just can't imagine how people like you feel when hearing about these things. It feels kind of embarrassing now that I'm awake to know how entrenched I was. We must look really stupid to you guys.
It's extremely interesting to me, same with mormonism and scientology.
@@Freeeeeeeee27 I don't think you look stupid. Like you said, you were entrenched in the organization. I was raised in a Baptist church environment and was hardcore religious until like middle school, so I can see how that influences one's life. I only got a taste, thankfully, but I can see why people believe these things when their social lives and families depend on it.
@@Freeeeeeeee27 As a person who was in Pentecostal cults I do understand your embarrassment, but I would echo what others have said. that you have nothing to feel embarrassed about. Anyone can end up indoctrinated, either into religion or another group.
I think I can speak for the majority of Lloyd’s audience who were never in by saying that we are happy that you are free to live your life. I hope that you and other exJWs have managed to find some happiness.
"There is no real love in Jehovah's organization" says everything you need to know about Jehovah's Witnesses. Dave you have helped so many people telling your story because it lets those of us that felt the same lack of love that we weren't the only ones. I remember feeling it was me, I wasn't pleasing Jehovah so he was letting me know thru his holy spirit based organization, in the end we all just felt the effects of window washer hillbillies.
YAHsome!
Jeffrey that is how we felt until we started do our research and meeting other ex jw's and found out through online videos and reading ex jw's stories that it is endemic to the entire org
What a revolting story. I'm a lifelong, 2nd generation atheist who watches this channel in fascinated horror. My best wishes to the whole wonderful family. I hope they can heal and continue to bring good from their heartbreaking experiences.
we could tell you many stories from the trainwreck that was our lives
I can't even imagine... I am so incredibly sorry for your daughter and yourself. I'm happy to hear that you were able to leave this unbelievably sick and disgusting cult.
I believe you totally. Something like this happened to my own sister and she was 14 at the time. We weren't allowed to go to the police the elders made that very clear. I tried to get other elders involved from another congregation and they all concocted a story that my 14 year old sister asked for it. Disgusting. Of course she didn't! !!!
43:22 That nurse's behavior is a violation of HIPAA law. Medical organizations fire people for breaking HIPAA law. The nurse and possibly the organization can be sued by the daughter.
Generally I dont understand how they allow members of cults that go against the Hippocratic oath, the fundamental principle of Medicine, practicing in the US.
I can almost imagine how a deeply misguided zealot could think playing that tape would be a good idea - But to keep going for 5 hours while an obviously traumatized child is crying and begging you to stop ... What kind of person does that? How can a whole group of people do this and live with themselves?
I think that's exactly the kind of unfeeling, merciless mindset a rapist would have.
exactly bullsquid42
This is disgusting. I'm gonna say it again, Jehovah's witnesses don't know what love is. As a father of daughters myself I can only imagine what kind of absolute RAGE he must have been feeling when the elders played that tape. Disgusting, there is no excuse for that.
Misogyny to a new plateau. Control by ignorant and authoritarian people for some kind of weird God and org. And marking someone for trying to get help. The literature and talks from stage always attribute or calls it trials and a test of faith. To keep you in. And to listened to the dreaded, mentally diseased apostates! After listening to the first 5 or 6 "apostate" you tubers, I felt real love for apostates.
@VideoAudioDisco09 He clarified what happened with the '75 prediction. Also they drill people with such insensitivity. The death of his daughter by suicide was too sad. Not there to shepherd the flock or se the appearance as to bind up the wounds. I do not believe all elders are like that. By ignorant I meant their lack of knowledge in dealing with these serious issues. Their head is only filled with Shephard the Flock book- that is their realty that explains everything. I have good memories but also a lot of stress. I clean for a living, actually tried to be able to go in a different direction- which failed and added to exhaustion and stress. We(I) was lulled into acceptance and complacency- everything is temporary, Jehovah is looking over us, and rely on him. That is one of the more serious plight I find myself in.
The Nurse " should have lost her license! She is held under law not to reveal confidential information. She should also be personally sued. Horrendous
This is beyond words. I cant imagine what this poor child went through. These elders need jail time because of the abuse. And then his eldest daughter that committed suicide???? Both Dave and his wife really went through HELL. ALL BECAUSE OF THESE JW'S. I was born and raised in this toxic organization and no one gives any respect to those people going through difficulties.
I have one thing to say...I grew up being taught that you will be able to recognize the true religion by the love they have for one another...it DEFINITELY IS NOT JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!
Soooo true.
It took me a few days to prepare myself to watch this. As a SA survivor, I cannot even FATHOM being forced to listen to it! It’s shocking and repulsive. They need to be held accountable somehow for putting this poor young lady through this trauma again.
No words. I am ... I am so sorry.
Wow, so incredibly sad. I’m fully awake now and getting the HELL OUT ASAP! Thankful my husband and children saw through the BS and never wanted anything to do with “The Truth”. Thank you for your brave story.
Thank you for speaking up this is helping me and so many others trying to leave this cult after hearing your story I’m DONE
Another great interview 👏Lloyd keep them coming 👏
Thank you for sharing this story. Hope more people will wake up when they do their research and learn about all the abuse.
Bro I had to hold back tears while I'm at work listening to this. You sir went through so much pain. And I couldn't believe having to be told that my daughter possibly laid dead on the floor for like 3 days and that old bitty of a sister never thought "maybe there's something wrong" when seeing a young woman sprawled out on the god damn kitchen floor. That's so heartbreaking
I had to hold back the tears listening to Dave’ story and the family’s fight for justice - heartbreaking and showing the Watchtower in their true colours.
The actions of the Elders are in my view a clear case of child abuse - it may not have been physical but the effects and damage are no less than the original rape. HQ in New York can’t wash their hands of this - they know exactly what’s happened and yet there is no one iota or remorse, or sympathy, for the family. How can this be a spirit directed Organisation?
Stephen Lett can stand up and deny that the Organisation is permissive towards child abuse, but the reality is that they are complicit in conducting it through their Organisation.
Truly shocking.
My stomach is in knots over this poor man's story.
This is just madness , hope this lady has recover from these traumas .... I do not know if that is even possible. Edit .... I have finished the video ...... I am so sorry ..... I have no other words
I did the same thing! Commented halfway through and then commented again. Appalling ...heart-wrenching story.
@@KimberleyBlack I have seen how religion has broken families, but never like this , this is just maddness
@@andrescorrea125 madness indeed!!!
I sent a voicemail, but I didn't even cover half of what happened in this "religion" that I was raised in. The sexual abuse cover ups within the hall, the shaming if you got assaulted outside, the shunning, the indoctrination "make sure you take your notes" "make sure you study your material so you can preach better" "we're doing sign language classes so we can reach more people; make sure you learn" "don't let anything interfere with your meetings" I can't stand it. I left my full name. I faded out, but since 2017, the elders were telling my parents that I should've been disfellowshipped. Only reason I know is because my dad wasn't as indoctrinated and he was angry at that statement, and let me know.
There are so many of us with similar stories, so sad😥
I am disgusted and furious on so many levels with this story. This young woman's entire life on every level has been irreparable. The " society " is so sick spiritually they are not even on life support. They are the disease. I can't believe this father would even have anything to do with the society anymore. What a unbelievable nightmare. I pray for this young woman. 🙏
I have no words. Such a horrific situation! I have 14 year old daughters, I can't imagine going through something like this with them. Thank you for sharing your story. Sending your family loads of love xx
I' m sorry dear Dave for your loss
Wow that’s terrible for a 15yr old girl, this elders has no conscience at all!!!!
1:00:57
Elders mistakenly ask Dave's youngest amazing granddaughter, ( whom was 17 at the time ) *"Why aren't you baptized like your older sister?"* Dave's youngest amazing granddaughter replied, *"When you let sister's be elders and sit in on Judicial Meetings, then I'll think about it."*
❤👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼❤
☝🏼 *From ApostaBabe Linda James.* ☝🏼
This is an incredibly sad yet thought provoking account i remember someone saying to me some time back be careful what you buy into I now question everything I always like to listen to your program Lloyd it's very enlightening
I am so sorry for all this family has endured!
I thought I knew a lot about this organization, having been married to one. However, this goes beyond anything that I imagined. The fact that this man could still want to be a part of it speaks of the tremendous psychological hold that it has on its members.
"Do you have anything that you want to tell us?" Every time I hear this, I want to smack a J-Dub elder.
Dave. Honestly props to you for getting your daughter mental health support while in the cult. I know personally my parents viewed psychiatrists and therapists as a part of the world and an unacceptable option when I was horrendously depressed. And honestly I do fully believe that if I had access to proper counsoling it might have turned out better. I've never personally dealt with SA but I've absolutely seen it mess people up. Especially at 15 and with that horrendous treatment. I sincerely hope she is doing better today
Thank you so much for sharing this. “Don’t shun you’re family ever”
Yes, the truth about the "truth" will set you free!
How do you see someone on the floor and ignore it for three days? She possibly could have been saved.
Thank you Dave for sharing your truely tragic story. Trauma tragedy and strength. I hope you get the verdict your family deserves. ❤️
So deeply sorry for your loss. I’m commenting along the way as i listen and I am completely horrified at the outcome and loss of your sweet girl . Sending you so much heart and care. The blood on the hands of this organization will be called to an account!
I'm so glad that you were able to do this interview. When I first heard about this case I was heartbroken. My heart goes out to this man and his family, both of his daughters were treated with such malice. Them speaking out has and will continue to resonate with others on their journey.
How can anyone look at someone sprawled on the floor and not inquire as to what the hell is going on?
This was brutal to watch, but I'm glad I did. So much courage here. What an incredible family to have suffered so much and come out fighting. Dave Gracey, you are indeed an inspiration. It feels good to be on the same side as people like you and your amazing family.
Thanks Lloyd for yet another sensitively handled interview.
Just when you think you’ve heard it all, another devastating wave of abusive, coercive, manipulative behaviour comes crashing down on the people Watchtower is meant to protect. 💔
Being a SA survivor myself if this was done to me it would have killed me. I wouldn’t have been able to handle it myself. I can’t believe the disgusting ignorance of a group of obviously PERVERSE men listening to a sexual assault for their JOLLIES! You can’t tell me they didn’t get off to it just like her ropiest!
Dave, I felt your pain. I was part of the cult for decades. My only son is shunning me since 2017. I pray to my God that he wakes up & hopefully he is free from the cult.
Thank you so much for this conversation with Dave. Dave reached out to me at one point a couple years ago in regards to my activism. His open mind foundation is just wonderful and he is a wonderful person human being. This whole story rocks me to the core. My disfellowshipping was quite the ordeal, and stood out in my mind as extreme, until I heard this one. This is just awful and a perfect representation of how disgusting that organization is. The immense affect all of this has had on Dave and his entire family. Very hard to articulate the emotion of how hearing this whole story makes an ex witness feel. Anyways, please do me a huge favor and tell Dave hello and thank him from the bottom of my heart for exposing his vulnerability to benefit others to hopefully stay away from this evil, ingenious system of mind control cult. Please tell him it’s worth it. Thank you for everything you do Lloyd as well.
Thank you Corinne
How can anyone sit and watch their child go through this? I cannot believe the depths of depravity such an organisation can stoop to. I'm shocked.
Dave you are an inspiration _ given all you have been through, your resilience, kindness and compassion shine through. Lloyd it would be such a treat for you to interview Dave's wife! Please!
Great 👍🏻 interview. You are loved Dave, you too Lloyd ❤️❤️❤️
I expect you remember the legal case in Manchester England, where elders made a victim face her abuser. The Charity Commission told WT in no uncertain terms that it was a breach of human rights and a breach of Charity rules or similar.
I’m not in a good place to listen to this right now, but I came to show support and give a like. Very sorry that she had to deal with such trauma.
No genuine love within the JW organization, time and time again its been shown its their way or the highway take the highway.
Thank you Dave for sharing… this made me cry… I’m so sorry…😥 So glad you are awake now!!
This was absolutely sickening. It takes years of training to interview rape victims. The elders' arrogance is unbelievable. I don't understand how they can look themselves in the mirror. Destroy a child's life for what purpose? How can the JWs who are listening to this accept this as Jehovah's will?
Are you surprised? All Abrahamic religions are vile. Some are just worse than others.
Most accurate statement ever. "There is no love in the organization."
The being pulled back and being reproved for talking to her disfellowshipped fleshly Sister is unhinged enough, but as for the reason for that disfellowshipping, that of being r*p*d at 14, then ALL the rest, is beyond sickening. So unnecessary that this family have had to go through all of this. ALL down to wt policies.
Sympathies, and love out to you Dave, and your family.
Dearest Dave, Sending you thanks and much love to you and your family. These things are so sad that you all have had to cope with, and your generosity in sharing about it all to help others, is very very much appreciated. I love you all and wish your lives can be wonderful every day. My favorite part of this great interview is hearing about how your fantastic wife is a force to be reckoned with!
Thank you dear friend
Impressive interview! Thank you, Dave Gracey, for sharing your story. Many will take courage because of it. My heart goes out to you and your family.