The only complaint I have about rhystic study is when you don't ask to pay the 1, then draw cards without saying anything. Bro you missed your trigger, stop being scummy.
my problem with it is, no matter how responsible you play around a rhystic study, all of your efforts can be thwarted by paul across the table from you storming off and not paying for any of the triggers. Paying for rhystic study has to be a group effort, or else it’s going to generate your opponent insane value regardless of how you play on an individual level
I don’t care about the power of rhystic study, I care about the “do you pay the 1” multiple times a turn on every players turn, and especially when players don’t plan their turns out and have to think about paying or not. It makes games grind to a halt and it’s so annoying
I think vault and the moxen are fine and safe. Only cards I’d see on the ban table are ring, rhystic, and tithe. I hope and pray for the day thoracle is banned.
@@lunarlight3131 lab man dies to a swift breeze though and then the player loses the game because they've already tried to draw with 0. It's not even really a good card at the end of the day by current standards theres no punishment for thoracle and killing her does nothing which is why people dont like it
@@lunarlight3131 I think labman is fine, because thoracle's etb trigger is a lot harder to respond too. Apart from blue, no color has the ability to interact with thoracle while it's a spell on the stack. then with the ETB trigger, active player will get rid of their library somehow. Labman on the other hand dies to any color removal spell. If Active player casts say a consultation to exile their library, they still need to resolve another draw spell and not have their labman removed.
i honestly think you dont see orcish bowmaaters in edh is only cause of price. If i had money id jam that thing in everything black. You snipe everything and get more tokens to use. The one ring is powerful.... but you can run it in EVERYTHING so it is more problematic. Maybe people just gotta use orcish cause that card DESERVES banning
Buy your expensive cards from China, they look the same sleeved and play the same, nobody will really care you are playing Commander after all If you want to buy cardboard as a long term investment, I can't stress this enough, but why? Just buy gold, the value of the dollar went down 50% compared to gold.
While I've been proxying new cards in commander for a while, I am probably going to sell and replace with proxies cards over 20 dollars. Fierce guardianship is getting sold for sure.
The thing with a lot of the other 'fast mana' is that all the other fast mana has an inherent cost to it. Mox requires you to exile cards so you two for one yourself, vault is a one time use 'ritual' as you put it unless you build around it specifically and suffers from the same issue of limiting you in terms of colors on a turn 1 play. As for the reserved list, they're prohibitively expensive to the point where they aren't going to be showing up in most casual decks ($800 vs $200 is a huge difference, especially with the recent reprint equity WoTC was milking with crypt and lotus recently. Cradle isn't getting a reprint). Based on the announcement the issue was more non-games that were over due to explosive starts, so a lot of the the other speculations I'm kind of on the fence about based on the message they were sending with the ban. They didn't have a problem with some explosive starts, but wanted to limit it by cutting off the most powerful and most abusable ones currently in the format that could reasonably be slotted into any deck, and specifically cards that were becoming more prevalent in more casual games due to consistent and repeated reprints.
Based on the bans, the problem wasn't fast mana it was burst mana on turn 1, i think alot of "Fast mana" is safe (like sol ring is safe because 3 mana on turn 2 is not nearly as bad as 5 mana on turn 1). The cards that are probably most likely in the scopes right now are the One Ring and Rhystic Studies.
Sol Ring 100% enables insane turn twos wich was what the rc mentioned not wanting. Sol Ring is only safe because the RC is too wishy washy. They aren't consistent. If they want to curate a ban list and manage it for the health of the format that's fine, but they need to consistently apply their logic and give up in the whole rule 0 argument. Without crypt or lotus I've pulled 6-7 mana on turn 2 in more than a few games granted I'm also running ancient Tomb and gemstone caverns. It feels like the RC has issues less with explosive starts in and of themselves and more with consistently having big mana fast to enable value engine commanders. I dont think lotus deserved the axe. Crypt is questionable to me Pleased about dockside and Nadu. End of the day if the decision is unpopular enough it will splinter the player base and that's not good for anyone.
@@xanafein8453 The thing with sol ring is it's very hand dependent. What exactly are you going to play turn 1 with ring besides signets/talismans that are ubiquitous in most decks? The use of your only source of colored mana to play it severely limits the explosiveness of it in the majority of decks. The others can operate on their own without needing much else in terms of hand (crypt allows for any 3 drop requiring a single colored pip, lotus allows for any 4 mana commander as long as its 2 colors or less)
Nah, the only real problem was the affordibilty of fast mana. Nobody would gripe about fast mana if everybody could afford them. That's why proxies rock!!!
@@tokertalk9648 Funny enough I'm in a proxy-ish friendly group and it still ends up being a problem due to frequent 'non-games' where one person gets such an explosive start that there's literally no way around it so, nah the price / availability argument doesn't really hold up either.
Everyone wants a tournament ban list, but no one wants anyone to play the tournament style. Rule 0 shouldn't be a discussion of what banned cards you want to play, but a discussion about what cards not to play. Casual doesn't need a banlist. cEDH should ban cards that slow the game down, i.e. Sharazad, or cards with officially dead mechanics, i.e. ante cards. Stop the gatekeeping.
Tier list system for cards in commander. Much of the banned cards are/were fine in CEDH and would continue to be so. Several currently problem cards are only such in casual levels of play so they could be relegated to an advanced level tier between casual and CEDH. Set most commander precon staples to this casual tier of play where the average lgs is expecting to see fair play. Have a couple lower tiers for your budget/spicy nights where you play some more backwoods commander. Edit: this would isolate problem cards from casual settings like what RC wants while still giving room for CEDH to enjoy their overpowered toys with a nice power level in the between and below casual for more experienced players or for learning to play the game
@@MrDreamblader does the RC even matter at that point? Rule 0 is supposed to be something used on the occasion, not a crutch where players have to deliberate at different places for their decks
@MrMistyEyes removing expensive cards isn't gatekeeping. 4 people sitting around a table, not even employed by WotC or Hasbro, determining what people get to play because they believe the format needs to slow down is gatekeeping. Magic itself was created for casual play. It just evolved over time, and so will Commander, or any new format created will eventually have an element of competition.
This whole event imo will have serious consequences, players who were prepared to spend bigger sums of money for powerful cards may not after this.. how does wotc move their next set with new replacement chase card if enfranchised, bigger-spending customers have lost all confidence in their game pieces remaining playable? Game stores must be seriously worried about how to handle future purchasing of singles etc, for them, it is business and a matter of making a living. I think the simplest solution is to change the “ban list” into a “suggested do-not-play” list. Immediately shortcutting rule zero to a minimum of “are you playing cards from the list or not?” And go from there. EDIT: I am really tired of hearing smug players revel in bans, educate yourself and realise that the people who spend the most on this game are the largest supporters of the company who relies on profit to keep the entire game afloat. Anyone purchasing their 2-3 precons per year are really not making that big of a contribution to wotc’s bottom line. If everyone purchased like this, wotc would shut down.
@@Enja_Near Seems like you missed the entire point. You invest in whatever you spend money on, expecting to get joy or financial value from, whichever. It is a “collectible” card game anyway. My post wasn’t about it being an investment, it was about business, cost, profits, and a company that wants money to be spent to continue to make product.
@@Enja_Near tax/stax is a valid and viable EDH strategy. Stax is horrendously Overhated in casual environments and i think not only is it unique and interesting from a deckbuilding/design perspective, but its also an answer to many problems plaguing casual tables (aka piles of solitaire value engines that ramp and draw until they achieve critical mass and combo out or swing for lethal) Play blood moon, Play Ruinations, play rhystic studies.
@@Cynidecia I agree. Just not with effects that force players to ask "do you pay X?" Everytime something happens. Let's be real, if there was a 2U enchantment that read "your opponent's spells cost 1 more." It would see just as much play as study, and though it would definitely be hated, not nearly as much as study has garnered.
They can't ban any cards from LOTR. Side note... only wotc should be able to ban cards. Their employees have to report sales. The RC and advisory board doesn't.
IDK why anyone would want all the reserve list banned; there are so many cheap hyper specific cards that are fun to use in Commander decks. I could definitely see the really strong expensive ones deserving the ban hammer though.
Or maybe, just maybe reprint the fun ones and leave the collectibles? Like the power 9 or the urza lands. The reserved list is such a stupid thing. My friends and I play since 2019 and its frustrating that so many fun cards wont get reprintet.
@@19sebi19 I never said anything about not reprinting them i don't care if they do, I just said its silly to ban them since they are fun and unique. But most of the the niche unique ones are under $5 so its not like you can't get them, its only the strong reserve list cards that are expensive.
Colorless player here. If they hit one ring and vault, colorless (that's already underpowered) becomes effectively unplayable bc our best (maybe only) weapon is speed.
@@theg3843 im not even worried about the one ring, if they kill our ramp then thats it. We will be outpaced by every other color while our spells cost 2x-3x more mana
It's funny how people are pointing now at the 3-4 mana Smothering Tithe or Rhystic Study, but then conveniently skip over the brutally more cEDH-relevant Remora or Sentinel
What gets me is how so many people are whining and complaining about these pieces of cardboard. You really want to ban rhystic study because you have to pay one when you cast a spell? And then even worse to have a committee that's catering to these big babies because they don't want to speak up with rule zero at the table.... if guys are coming in with 10 power decks and stomping precons, speak up and say we don't want to play with you anymore instead of complaining about it and getting the entire format warped.
@@bt5087 You don't see people calling to ban Augustin, or Thalia, or any other taxation card. It's not about paying the one, it's about the obnoxious way you have to go about paying the one.
Hot take: Commander should have a tier list for staples and commanders instead of a banlist. The recent bannings were fine in CEDH and popular staples in that tier of play. Cards like Rhystic Study, Fierce Guardianship could remain in a tier below CEDH where they can still be played in CEDH tables and this advanced level table but not in lower rated decks, like casual tables. Most cards in precons could be considered the average/casual tier and what one would expect from players at casual tables. Essentially, if your deck has Dockside Extortionist or Jeweled Lotus, it is playable at a CEDH table only. You can remove those for other cards and likely play at the lower rates based on your highest tiered card(s). This tier list would encapsulate a vast majority of common staples including lands. Triomes, Fetches, Surveil, and Shock lands would fit under advanced tier while the typical precon dual lands would fall under average or below tiers. This would absolve a lot of need for rule 0 for balance or for that one guy who plays Jeweled Lotus in a casual setting. Adjustments can be later made based on staple's performances in these tiers so that each tier of play doesn't become overwhelmed by certain cards. Say Rhystic or Guardianship is still to strong in the advanced level of play, then you bump it to CEDH tier and there they can flourish with the rest of the CEDH format as usual.
Having more people afraid to bring these cards to casual tables cause they think they'll get banned is actually a blessing in disguise. This ban list has been fantastic!
I would still recommend banning lotus, walk, recall, and most the moxes (perhaps excluding color with the lowest win percentage?). I own most those cards and I’m still saying that is the truth.
🤔 what did he did this on purpose? 🤑 commander old school legendary artifact Mox’s five card 0 to come out one counter. Lande cooler of the Mox . Like gemstone mine. Card ?
Rhystic does not Bog the game down. Wtf are you talking about? If anything it speeds the game up. More cards in hand more options/answers and win cons.
It slows it down Do you pay the one No Do you pay the one No Do you pay the one No By thr time the games done you've spent a good several minutes just asking the same question
@@27777BigRedBarn you need to agree to finally get your GED, smart guy. "Do you pay the one? If you don't pay the one, I'll just win next turn with full protection" DOES make the game "fast" as in, unreactable wins. It JUST DOES NOT speed up the game, though. It makes the game slower, but gives the Rhystic player a more guaranteed win. You are wrong, but we can agree to you never having played with/against the card
On the topic of reserved list cards, I think the following cards should be banned: - True duals - Cradle/Sanctum - Tabernacle My reasoning is as follows: - True duals, while not broken, are cards that nearly every deck wants on the reserved list. P9 was allegedly banned for optics in making the format appear expensive, and I think manabase that costs over $800 apiece fits that bill. While true duals are much lower on the list of cards I want to see banned, I think it would improve the format image drastically by capping manabase value at shocks. - Cradle/Sanctum are extremely powerful cards that lots of decks want. Unlike true duals, these are additionally a colossal powerspike, and should be banned in the name of format accessibility. - Tabernacle is an insanely powerful stax piece on a land. It's not just an absurdly powerful card on the reserved list, it's an immensely negative play pattern where it completely shuts down decks until they draw limited land removal options. I'd additionally keep an eye on Mox Diamond (it's a lot stronger than Chrome Mox, but still rarely shows up on casual play) and Strip Mine (it's very rare anyone would shell out for this card unless their gameplan is recurring it).
"Because I can't buy one, you can't have one" is such a bad take. You aren't seeing these cards in every game you play. If you are and you're mad, jealous, or salty about it you should proxy the same stuff or find a different group to play with. You've got people who have been playing the game for 30 years and have those or people who have saved up hard earned money to buy those. Just cause Timmy whose been playing for a couple months can't buy some cards doesn't mean you can just tell other people they can't.
@@metaldudebuff92 Inaccessibility is why every sanctioned format in Magic is dead right now. Pauper decks are $80 which was absolutely unthinkable 10 years ago. It is WotC's decision to make the game impenetrable with the worst reprint policy of any card game, and under no circumstance should something as basic as a land that slots in every deck be $800. If true duals were $5 this would not be an issue, but it is WotC's decision to value the secondary market above the gameplay experience. If a card goes into nearly every deck, and the only reasonable way for that card to be played is for someone to proxy it, that card is creating an unhealthy play environment.
@engiopdf8745 you know what I did when I got into the game. I made budget versions of decks. Then over time as I became more enfranchised and into the game I slowly upgraded those decks. The first deck I built was modern infect, but I started it mono green. It still did the thing but was not nearly as optimized as its UG or BG counterparts. Over the months I'd slowly pick up pieces and now 7 years later I own the fully optimized versions of that deck. First commander decks I built about a month after I got into magic were edgar markov and a $20 budget Yargel deck. It took me probably 3 to 4 years to get both those decks to where they are now. Through packs, trading, budgeted purchase with my hard earned dollars, fnm grinding for store credit. I just recently bought two dual lands for that edgar deck. That's hard work, dedication, money, and time investment. All the game pieces are accessible if you want them to be. I'm not trying to invest or stomp noobs with my dual lands. That deck is my favorite deck. I built it from scratch over many years. If I had to sell my entire collection tomorrow but I could keep one thing, it'd be that deck. In like twenty years when I'm too old to bother with this hobby anymore and I sell or hand down my collection and decks, I will keep that deck. This, like most things in life, isn't something you can hop into and just have what everyone else has. People work for their stuff, and the level of that work depends on how much they want to personally and financially invest. I don't care what cards are in your decks. They can he $5 or $5,000,000. I'm going to have fun with mine and you can have fun with yours. I'm sorry you want your hand held through this entire game, but I'm not gonna say what people can and can't have based on Financials. I'm going to enjoy playing if you beat me with a $20 deck or a $1000 dollar one.
Mfs will literally whine all day about rystic study instead of paying 1.
The only complaint I have about rhystic study is when you don't ask to pay the 1, then draw cards without saying anything.
Bro you missed your trigger, stop being scummy.
my problem with it is, no matter how responsible you play around a rhystic study, all of your efforts can be thwarted by paul across the table from you storming off and not paying for any of the triggers. Paying for rhystic study has to be a group effort, or else it’s going to generate your opponent insane value regardless of how you play on an individual level
I don’t care about the power of rhystic study, I care about the “do you pay the 1” multiple times a turn on every players turn, and especially when players don’t plan their turns out and have to think about paying or not. It makes games grind to a halt and it’s so annoying
Every single player is always 1 mana behind at minimum each turn is crazy
The RC made it clear more bans are not coming for a while.
I think vault and the moxen are fine and safe. Only cards I’d see on the ban table are ring, rhystic, and tithe.
I hope and pray for the day thoracle is banned.
they would have to ban lab man as well so that won't happen. only foreseeable bans i see are the one ring, gaea's cradle and mishra's workshop.
@@lunarlight3131 lab man dies to a swift breeze though and then the player loses the game because they've already tried to draw with 0. It's not even really a good card at the end of the day by current standards theres no punishment for thoracle and killing her does nothing which is why people dont like it
@@lunarlight3131 I think labman is fine, because thoracle's etb trigger is a lot harder to respond too. Apart from blue, no color has the ability to interact with thoracle while it's a spell on the stack. then with the ETB trigger, active player will get rid of their library somehow.
Labman on the other hand dies to any color removal spell. If Active player casts say a consultation to exile their library, they still need to resolve another draw spell and not have their labman removed.
i honestly think you dont see orcish bowmaaters in edh is only cause of price. If i had money id jam that thing in everything black. You snipe everything and get more tokens to use.
The one ring is powerful.... but you can run it in EVERYTHING so it is more problematic.
Maybe people just gotta use orcish cause that card DESERVES banning
I bought 2 packs on day 1 LotR and ripped it in the first one, been using it in Yawgmoth since then and yeah it does work
I see Orcish bowmasters all the time.
Buy your expensive cards from China, they look the same sleeved and play the same, nobody will really care you are playing Commander after all
If you want to buy cardboard as a long term investment, I can't stress this enough, but why? Just buy gold, the value of the dollar went down 50% compared to gold.
While I've been proxying new cards in commander for a while, I am probably going to sell and replace with proxies cards over 20 dollars. Fierce guardianship is getting sold for sure.
I sold all my cards 3 months ago for proxies, so glad I did.
The thing with a lot of the other 'fast mana' is that all the other fast mana has an inherent cost to it. Mox requires you to exile cards so you two for one yourself, vault is a one time use 'ritual' as you put it unless you build around it specifically and suffers from the same issue of limiting you in terms of colors on a turn 1 play. As for the reserved list, they're prohibitively expensive to the point where they aren't going to be showing up in most casual decks ($800 vs $200 is a huge difference, especially with the recent reprint equity WoTC was milking with crypt and lotus recently. Cradle isn't getting a reprint).
Based on the announcement the issue was more non-games that were over due to explosive starts, so a lot of the the other speculations I'm kind of on the fence about based on the message they were sending with the ban. They didn't have a problem with some explosive starts, but wanted to limit it by cutting off the most powerful and most abusable ones currently in the format that could reasonably be slotted into any deck, and specifically cards that were becoming more prevalent in more casual games due to consistent and repeated reprints.
Based on the bans, the problem wasn't fast mana it was burst mana on turn 1, i think alot of "Fast mana" is safe (like sol ring is safe because 3 mana on turn 2 is not nearly as bad as 5 mana on turn 1). The cards that are probably most likely in the scopes right now are the One Ring and Rhystic Studies.
Sol Ring 100% enables insane turn twos wich was what the rc mentioned not wanting. Sol Ring is only safe because the RC is too wishy washy. They aren't consistent. If they want to curate a ban list and manage it for the health of the format that's fine, but they need to consistently apply their logic and give up in the whole rule 0 argument.
Without crypt or lotus I've pulled 6-7 mana on turn 2 in more than a few games granted I'm also running ancient Tomb and gemstone caverns.
It feels like the RC has issues less with explosive starts in and of themselves and more with consistently having big mana fast to enable value engine commanders.
I dont think lotus deserved the axe. Crypt is questionable to me Pleased about dockside and Nadu.
End of the day if the decision is unpopular enough it will splinter the player base and that's not good for anyone.
@@xanafein8453 The thing with sol ring is it's very hand dependent. What exactly are you going to play turn 1 with ring besides signets/talismans that are ubiquitous in most decks? The use of your only source of colored mana to play it severely limits the explosiveness of it in the majority of decks. The others can operate on their own without needing much else in terms of hand (crypt allows for any 3 drop requiring a single colored pip, lotus allows for any 4 mana commander as long as its 2 colors or less)
Nah, the only real problem was the affordibilty of fast mana. Nobody would gripe about fast mana if everybody could afford them. That's why proxies rock!!!
@@tokertalk9648 Funny enough I'm in a proxy-ish friendly group and it still ends up being a problem due to frequent 'non-games' where one person gets such an explosive start that there's literally no way around it so, nah the price / availability argument doesn't really hold up either.
Turn 1 Sol Ring with turn 2 Tomb is 5 mana turn 2....?!
Anything over $15 that can be reprinted are cards to avoid. Proxy everything else
It seems like they went after fast mana generators. I would sell smothering
If they ban thassa oracle then the flood gates will open and theyll slowly but surely hit every card that says "you win the game."
I'm going back to my 2000 mtg days. White border plains w black sharpie make best proxies
Everyone wants a tournament ban list, but no one wants anyone to play the tournament style.
Rule 0 shouldn't be a discussion of what banned cards you want to play, but a discussion about what cards not to play.
Casual doesn't need a banlist. cEDH should ban cards that slow the game down, i.e. Sharazad, or cards with officially dead mechanics, i.e. ante cards.
Stop the gatekeeping.
Tier list system for cards in commander. Much of the banned cards are/were fine in CEDH and would continue to be so. Several currently problem cards are only such in casual levels of play so they could be relegated to an advanced level tier between casual and CEDH. Set most commander precon staples to this casual tier of play where the average lgs is expecting to see fair play. Have a couple lower tiers for your budget/spicy nights where you play some more backwoods commander.
Edit: this would isolate problem cards from casual settings like what RC wants while still giving room for CEDH to enjoy their overpowered toys with a nice power level in the between and below casual for more experienced players or for learning to play the game
I agree, if rule 0 is a thing then why is there a ban list for casual?
@@MrDreamblader does the RC even matter at that point? Rule 0 is supposed to be something used on the occasion, not a crutch where players have to deliberate at different places for their decks
How is removing expensive cards gatekeeping?
@MrMistyEyes removing expensive cards isn't gatekeeping. 4 people sitting around a table, not even employed by WotC or Hasbro, determining what people get to play because they believe the format needs to slow down is gatekeeping.
Magic itself was created for casual play. It just evolved over time, and so will Commander, or any new format created will eventually have an element of competition.
This whole event imo will have serious consequences, players who were prepared to spend bigger sums of money for powerful cards may not after this.. how does wotc move their next set with new replacement chase card if enfranchised, bigger-spending customers have lost all confidence in their game pieces remaining playable?
Game stores must be seriously worried about how to handle future purchasing of singles etc, for them, it is business and a matter of making a living.
I think the simplest solution is to change the “ban list” into a “suggested do-not-play” list. Immediately shortcutting rule zero to a minimum of “are you playing cards from the list or not?” And go from there.
EDIT: I am really tired of hearing smug players revel in bans, educate yourself and realise that the people who spend the most on this game are the largest supporters of the company who relies on profit to keep the entire game afloat. Anyone purchasing their 2-3 precons per year are really not making that big of a contribution to wotc’s bottom line. If everyone purchased like this, wotc would shut down.
@@eden_oni They're game pieces, not investment pieces.
@@Enja_Near Seems like you missed the entire point. You invest in whatever you spend money on, expecting to get joy or financial value from, whichever.
It is a “collectible” card game anyway. My post wasn’t about it being an investment, it was about business, cost, profits, and a company that wants money to be spent to continue to make product.
banning rhystic study would make that card homeless. I dont want it ending up like atog in pauper.
@@Cynidecia Sometimes a card deserves to be homeless.
@@Enja_Near tax/stax is a valid and viable EDH strategy. Stax is horrendously Overhated in casual environments and i think not only is it unique and interesting from a deckbuilding/design perspective, but its also an answer to many problems plaguing casual tables (aka piles of solitaire value engines that ramp and draw until they achieve critical mass and combo out or swing for lethal) Play blood moon, Play Ruinations, play rhystic studies.
@@Cynidecia I agree. Just not with effects that force players to ask "do you pay X?" Everytime something happens.
Let's be real, if there was a 2U enchantment that read "your opponent's spells cost 1 more." It would see just as much play as study, and though it would definitely be hated, not nearly as much as study has garnered.
They should just rename it "The Pay-to-Won Ring".
One ring went down 40 bucks
They can't ban any cards from LOTR.
Side note... only wotc should be able to ban cards. Their employees have to report sales. The RC and advisory board doesn't.
Today's news made this list obsolete. Or... Wonder how WOTC will handle the future?
IDK why anyone would want all the reserve list banned; there are so many cheap hyper specific cards that are fun to use in Commander decks. I could definitely see the really strong expensive ones deserving the ban hammer though.
Or maybe, just maybe reprint the fun ones and leave the collectibles? Like the power 9 or the urza lands.
The reserved list is such a stupid thing.
My friends and I play since 2019 and its frustrating that so many fun cards wont get reprintet.
@@19sebi19 I never said anything about not reprinting them i don't care if they do, I just said its silly to ban them since they are fun and unique. But most of the the niche unique ones are under $5 so its not like you can't get them, its only the strong reserve list cards that are expensive.
They need to watch what they ban here, they might make colorless unplayable.
Colorless player here. If they hit one ring and vault, colorless (that's already underpowered) becomes effectively unplayable bc our best (maybe only) weapon is speed.
@@theg3843 im not even worried about the one ring, if they kill our ramp then thats it. We will be outpaced by every other color while our spells cost 2x-3x more mana
It's funny how people are pointing now at the 3-4 mana Smothering Tithe or Rhystic Study, but then conveniently skip over the brutally more cEDH-relevant Remora or Sentinel
Oh you think id let them get away with banning my cradle?
You would take the ban like a dick in the mouth and shut up about it LOL
I wouldn't buy any cards. Use proxies and hit them in the wallet
What gets me is how so many people are whining and complaining about these pieces of cardboard. You really want to ban rhystic study because you have to pay one when you cast a spell?
And then even worse to have a committee that's catering to these big babies because they don't want to speak up with rule zero at the table....
if guys are coming in with 10 power decks and stomping precons, speak up and say we don't want to play with you anymore instead of complaining about it and getting the entire format warped.
@@bt5087 You don't see people calling to ban Augustin, or Thalia, or any other taxation card. It's not about paying the one, it's about the obnoxious way you have to go about paying the one.
Yes ban the reserve list please
Hot take: Commander should have a tier list for staples and commanders instead of a banlist. The recent bannings were fine in CEDH and popular staples in that tier of play. Cards like Rhystic Study, Fierce Guardianship could remain in a tier below CEDH where they can still be played in CEDH tables and this advanced level table but not in lower rated decks, like casual tables. Most cards in precons could be considered the average/casual tier and what one would expect from players at casual tables.
Essentially, if your deck has Dockside Extortionist or Jeweled Lotus, it is playable at a CEDH table only. You can remove those for other cards and likely play at the lower rates based on your highest tiered card(s). This tier list would encapsulate a vast majority of common staples including lands. Triomes, Fetches, Surveil, and Shock lands would fit under advanced tier while the typical precon dual lands would fall under average or below tiers. This would absolve a lot of need for rule 0 for balance or for that one guy who plays Jeweled Lotus in a casual setting. Adjustments can be later made based on staple's performances in these tiers so that each tier of play doesn't become overwhelmed by certain cards. Say Rhystic or Guardianship is still to strong in the advanced level of play, then you bump it to CEDH tier and there they can flourish with the rest of the CEDH format as usual.
Check out canadian highlander. Give strong cards points and decks have a point buy system. Game can be played at various point-powerlevel. Easily done
If they start banning these cards I'm pissing on the ban list completely. I'll play with what I want.
No way I will throw any coin in this format due to precedent of newest bans
Having more people afraid to bring these cards to casual tables cause they think they'll get banned is actually a blessing in disguise. This ban list has been fantastic!
Nah. stax, land d and oracle for days. Its the only viable win con now. Will remind me of Urza's combo winter back in the day. Miserable.
@@Dstinct Most people don't play cEDH. Your format is a meme format that will always come before regular play.
Nothing is sacred anymore
🤔mtg vintage commander New type game 🤷♂️
I would still recommend banning lotus, walk, recall, and most the moxes (perhaps excluding color with the lowest win percentage?). I own most those cards and I’m still saying that is the truth.
🤔 what did he did this on purpose? 🤑 commander old school legendary artifact Mox’s five card 0 to come out one counter. Lande cooler of the Mox . Like gemstone mine. Card ?
Ok they just want to kill colorless decks at this point
I think it's to risky to not proxy any card with above $10
Rhystic does not Bog the game down. Wtf are you talking about? If anything it speeds the game up. More cards in hand more options/answers and win cons.
It slows it down
Do you pay the one
No
Do you pay the one
No
Do you pay the one
No
By thr time the games done you've spent a good several minutes just asking the same question
It triggers SO MUCH and you say it speeds up games... Mmhm. In response, nah
@@SlongestKongest we can agree to disagree.
@@Lemon_Sage9999 we can agree to disagree.
@@27777BigRedBarn you need to agree to finally get your GED, smart guy. "Do you pay the one? If you don't pay the one, I'll just win next turn with full protection" DOES make the game "fast" as in, unreactable wins. It JUST DOES NOT speed up the game, though. It makes the game slower, but gives the Rhystic player a more guaranteed win. You are wrong, but we can agree to you never having played with/against the card
On the topic of reserved list cards, I think the following cards should be banned:
- True duals
- Cradle/Sanctum
- Tabernacle
My reasoning is as follows:
- True duals, while not broken, are cards that nearly every deck wants on the reserved list. P9 was allegedly banned for optics in making the format appear expensive, and I think manabase that costs over $800 apiece fits that bill. While true duals are much lower on the list of cards I want to see banned, I think it would improve the format image drastically by capping manabase value at shocks.
- Cradle/Sanctum are extremely powerful cards that lots of decks want. Unlike true duals, these are additionally a colossal powerspike, and should be banned in the name of format accessibility.
- Tabernacle is an insanely powerful stax piece on a land. It's not just an absurdly powerful card on the reserved list, it's an immensely negative play pattern where it completely shuts down decks until they draw limited land removal options.
I'd additionally keep an eye on Mox Diamond (it's a lot stronger than Chrome Mox, but still rarely shows up on casual play) and Strip Mine (it's very rare anyone would shell out for this card unless their gameplan is recurring it).
nah. you ban duals and the format is dead. You think there is a noisy mob now, you have no idea what that would do.
@@Dstinct I didn't know EDH was only supported by people holding copies of ABU duals. That must be why 90% of tables contain precons.
"Because I can't buy one, you can't have one" is such a bad take.
You aren't seeing these cards in every game you play. If you are and you're mad, jealous, or salty about it you should proxy the same stuff or find a different group to play with. You've got people who have been playing the game for 30 years and have those or people who have saved up hard earned money to buy those. Just cause Timmy whose been playing for a couple months can't buy some cards doesn't mean you can just tell other people they can't.
@@metaldudebuff92 Inaccessibility is why every sanctioned format in Magic is dead right now. Pauper decks are $80 which was absolutely unthinkable 10 years ago. It is WotC's decision to make the game impenetrable with the worst reprint policy of any card game, and under no circumstance should something as basic as a land that slots in every deck be $800. If true duals were $5 this would not be an issue, but it is WotC's decision to value the secondary market above the gameplay experience. If a card goes into nearly every deck, and the only reasonable way for that card to be played is for someone to proxy it, that card is creating an unhealthy play environment.
@engiopdf8745 you know what I did when I got into the game. I made budget versions of decks. Then over time as I became more enfranchised and into the game I slowly upgraded those decks. The first deck I built was modern infect, but I started it mono green. It still did the thing but was not nearly as optimized as its UG or BG counterparts. Over the months I'd slowly pick up pieces and now 7 years later I own the fully optimized versions of that deck. First commander decks I built about a month after I got into magic were edgar markov and a $20 budget Yargel deck. It took me probably 3 to 4 years to get both those decks to where they are now. Through packs, trading, budgeted purchase with my hard earned dollars, fnm grinding for store credit. I just recently bought two dual lands for that edgar deck.
That's hard work, dedication, money, and time investment. All the game pieces are accessible if you want them to be. I'm not trying to invest or stomp noobs with my dual lands. That deck is my favorite deck. I built it from scratch over many years. If I had to sell my entire collection tomorrow but I could keep one thing, it'd be that deck. In like twenty years when I'm too old to bother with this hobby anymore and I sell or hand down my collection and decks, I will keep that deck.
This, like most things in life, isn't something you can hop into and just have what everyone else has. People work for their stuff, and the level of that work depends on how much they want to personally and financially invest. I don't care what cards are in your decks. They can he $5 or $5,000,000. I'm going to have fun with mine and you can have fun with yours.
I'm sorry you want your hand held through this entire game, but I'm not gonna say what people can and can't have based on Financials. I'm going to enjoy playing if you beat me with a $20 deck or a $1000 dollar one.