Dang I didn’t know that! Very interesting 😊. Also, what could’ve been if Ryan Reynolds played Xander instead of Nicholas? The amount of possibilities is insane, imagine if Riff Regan played Willow, Sarah played Cordelia, Charisma played Buffy. 🤯
@@lionlyons delete that right now, idc if it says spoiler alert, you shouldn’t be posting spoiler content on alley’s yt videos, she isn’t at ats s5 yet.
No lies- Christian Kane gets sexier and more handsome as he ages. Later when he stars in LEVERAGE and THE LIBRARIAN series he is an absolute thirst trap. Plus, he’s a really good actor and singer. He’s so worth watching on any show he’s cast.
I do find it interesting that Angel shows ZERO interest in "saving Lindsay's soul". He's not interested in his backstory, pain etc. He's written off Lindsay as unsalvageable. Why? Yes, he's an evil lawyer but he's not a direct murderer. Faith is. Yet Angel never hesitates in helping her. I think it speaks to the (somewhat petty) humanity of his soul: Lindsay has pissed him off/got in his way personally so Angel's written him off. It's much easier to forgive people their sins when they don't impact you personally. Yet he's not understanding at all of Buffy's struggles with Faith after Faith has done far worse personally to Buffy than Lindsay ever did to him. A very human flaw in Angel's character. And a pretty big flaw at that.
I agree completely and find this point is often passed over in this episode. It's kind of understandable given how much the episode has going on, but Lindsay was clearly riding an edge here and Angel's simple dismissal of him is a missed opportunity to at least _try_ to build a bridge.
Thank you for saying this! It always angers me the way Angel diminishes the things Faith did to Buffy as if she was wrong to want revenge on her after she was literally raped, but acts differently when he's the one personally involved. He comes off as a hypocrite in this ep.
@@AshLee92490 Angel also helped a lot of grown women, like that actress who wanted to be turned into a vampire. The reason he doesn't want to help Lindsey is because he got in his way, like the other comment said.
So, Christian Kane, who plays Lindsay, is good friends with David Boreanaz. He also appears in a number of other shows (including one of my personal favourite TV shows, Leverage, which is basically Robin Hood meets A-Team meets Robin Hood).
Love Leverage. I recently discovered Leverage: Redemption, a sequel with original cast bar one and two new members, there's one season out and it's been picked up for a second season.
More than that: Drew Goddard (Buffy&Angel) created the series and Steven S De Knight (Buffy&Angel) ran it during Season 1. Also Doug Petrie (Buffy&Angel) co ran Season 2 and The Defenders.
7:17 Well Angel is a vampire and if you remeber, Buffy tried to read his mind and couldn't. Something about his mind being like a mirror or whatever :D So I think this is the same case :)
Lindsay is played by Christian Kane and is one of the best characters. You're in for a few more 10/10 Lindsay episodes from him that will make you love and hate him and remember him long after you're done with Angel.
I think that this episode makes Wolfram & Hart much more interesting. It shows that they're not just a bunch of one-dimensional psychopaths. They're normal people with consciences who give in to temptation.
I think with Lindsay, Holland could see the potential in his rebellion to draw him in deeper. He doesn't see having a strong bottom line as a bad thing cos he believes he can corrupt it for Wolfram and Hart's benefit. With Evil Sheldon, his betrayal was entirely about personal gain and he was dumb enough to get caught, therefore, "worthless". Lindsay showed ingenuity and ruthlessness. Those things, WFH can use.
Some people, including CS Lewis, have written about how the more evil someone is the less effective they are. To really succeed at your evil schemes you need virtues, like integrity and dedication and intelligence. And even courage. Otherwise you'll just be kind of nasty and pathetic. Lindsey showed all of those things. Holland knows they need people who have those qualities to really make it in this dimension. So he eliminates venal incompetence, but he'll take virtue and bend it to his use.
This episode is the first real taste of the feel of season 2. That season is by far the best of both series, imo. The constant tension, unease, and dark feel is just unbelievably gripping. I hope you enjoy it, and I'm looking forward to your reaction to it!
Fun Fact 🙄 Jennifer Badger (Vanessa) has been Eliza Dusku’s stunt double and has been a stunt performer in practically every major movie or tv show you can think of
@@lilywong9672 Jennifer Badger and Karen Shepherd both stunt doubled for Faith (Shephard was the primary one). I believe Jennifer Badger also doubled for Cordy and Drusilla.
Christian Kane (Lindsay) is incredibly talented. I suggests watching the show Leverage to see what he can really do! It’s possibly my favorite show ever, it’s such a fun, witty, clever, and caring ride! It’s a con/heist show where they take down corrupt rich people, which is so satisfying.
Blind Date was a brilliant episode setting up a great finale in S1. This show really came into its own in late S1 with some stunning episodes. Lindsay going back to Wolfram & Hart, is a twist at the end. Angel is just so cool in the episode the way he kills Vanessa Brewer is brilliantly done. Holland Manners is so detestable we just cant wait to see if he gets his comeuppance. Wesley know what's in the prophecy which keeps us on tenterhooks for the finale, it doesn't disappoint. On re-watches we realise what a great show this was.
I like how well the episode sells the idea of Lindsey joining team Angel, to make it that much more of a gut-punch when he decides to stay at Wolfram and Hart. Early in the episode, Angel is lamenting his ineffectiveness in the human world. "How am I supposed to fight evil when they won't even put it behind bars?". A perfect narrative setup for Lindsey to join the team as the one who can fight Wolfram and Hart in the human legal system while Angel fights them in the shadows. But nope. At the end of the day, Lindsey just isn't quite that noble.
I thought I remembered Angel trying that "throw something at her" plan and she was smart enough not to react and just let it hit her in the face. Then I realized that was from Arrested Development.
Christian Kane is so awesome. I got to meet him once at a country western bar in Colorado. He had/has a country band. He wasn't playing when I saw him, but supporting his friends that WERE playing. He did join in for 2 songs though. Lindsey is a VERY cool character. Gunn is a VERY cool character. AtS rocks.
That's an interesting point about Angel being raised rich. Perhaps that being part of the reason he's not moved by Lindsay's story, and fails to engage with him. Then again, Angel was homeless for a good chunk of time and lived off rats...
Agreed, and also that Angel kind of nails it when he suggests Lindsey's not remorseful but scared. I don't think Angel digs it when someone's first instinct is to make excuses for their bad behavior. Notice, too, the parallel to Lindsey bringing up his tough childhood and Holland suggesting the "bad childhood" defense for Vanessa.
It's very likely that Angel throwing the sunglasses would not be admissible as evidence in the trial. Trials have to follow legal procedures very strictly and random interruptions like that would probably just get stricken from the record.
The director Thomas J Wright directed a lot of episodes of Supernatural so you definitely get docked points for not recognizing that. He directed an episode or 2 on a lot of big shows. Alias, Firefly, Dark Angel, The Wire, Smallville,... just to name a few.
Christian Kane (Lindsey) is also a singer. He's got 2 studio albums, an EP, and a live album. His second studio album, Welcome to My House!, is available for streaming on Amazon.
I think Angel makes a little legal error here- a hung jury is not the same thing as an acquittal. A hung jury means they couldn't get all the jurors to agree, in which case the Judge can declare a mistrial and try the case again with a new jury.
If they try the case again. Trying to get a conviction of a blind woman for a double homicide is probably next to impossible. Hence, even after the jury sees her catch the sunglasses, it still didn't convince all of them.
It's like recordelia says in five-by-five when she talked about men having layers "scratch the surface what do you get? more service." Lol Lindsey anyone
@@razycrandomgirl Seriously! Apparently they're also good friends outside of work, although I don't know if they've collaborated musically outside of "Last Call."
The first time I saw this I didn't think it was anything special. This perspective on it definitely made me look at it again. Far far better than I gave it credit for. And yeah, I love Wolfram and Hart's occult stuff. Mind readers and vampire security and an artifact vault, along with other things you'll see later. Definitely gets the urban fantasy feel to it.
Manners: We could have killed you - but it was just one case, and you have so much potential. So - you can leave without repercussions, OR you can have my job, as I am moving up. Either go now, or really commit to the firm. Your call. Lindsey: I would rather rise in the system and use it, than leave with a clean conscience...
The blind woman is Faith's stunt double I always like episodes deemed fillers, but I also hate finishing shows, the amount of shows I have 1 episode left of is insane, I'm like the Doctor(who) I dont like endings & fillers give me character & world building & also prolong the ending OH MY FUCKING GOD I've finally worked out where I know Holland(W&H) from, fucking LOST my dude, that shits been bothering me for yearssss I love Gunn so much, just down for anything anytime I also love Lindsey, mans got a code, not a great one but a code nonetheless & another example of everyone being more morally grey on Angel
So a few things. 1. The point with the ending is that Evil is a choice. You can always choose to just walk out that door. The rest is just justification. 2. The reason Lindsey went to Angel to stop the blind woman was because he realised she had a crush on him and she freaked him out. He went to Angel to kill her so he wouldn't have to represent her again. 3. Lindsey's boss really did know him.
Re:filler episodes. That's the thing about Buffy and Angel; there are really no episodes that don't contribute to character development in some way. Ha! You predicted exactly what they were going to do about the disc! It's being a vampire plus no movement. Angel has no body heat, so Vanessa can only see kinetic energy when he moves. Actually, when you think about it, Vanessa's power was obtained similarly to Dr Meltzer's from "I Fall to Pieces". The guy who was killed was named Lee Mercer. Lindsey McDonald, Lilah Morgan and Lee Mercer. .
I feel like I've always liked this episode, but your analysis just really made me love it more and pointed out why it's so great. Dang. I especially loved your part at the end, where you pointed out the camera angles and lighting. I always love it when you do that, as someone who does a little bit of video editing and loves to watch making of things on DVDs (I also took one film class, though I'm by no means an expert at all). But I didn't even notice how great this episode was with the cinematography. But you're right: Lindsey's entire face except for his eyes being dark, to sort of hint how he'd been reeled in by Wolfran & Hart but got a way for a little bit in this episode, is so good. I also love Angel pretending to fall asleep and being like, "I'm sorry, I nodded off. Were you going to get to you're evil." It reminds me of Buffy with the First. "Okay, I get it. You're evil. Do we have to chat about it all day?" Though I feel like Angel should have listened. If he had, maybe Lindsey wouldn't have made his decision at the end there. Or maybe he always would have. Who knows? Things are definitely ramping up towards the finale. Can't wait to see your reaction to it! And again, thank you so much for these awesome videos that you do!
If you start this video at 11:46pm and 30 seconds on New Year's Eve, you'll see Alley react to Lindsey closing the office doors right at midnight. Holland Manners really works just the right angle for Lindsey. It's a masterful manipulation. Offering him encouragement, a place in the world, a thundering raise, and ungodly benefits. And when Lindsey goes to the good guys, he's met with hostility. Even killing Lee really just makes the point that he's not above villainy, but he still wants Lindsey on his side (or under his thumb.) And Angel's not entirely wrong; a momentary crisis of conscience isn't true change and it can end in relapse. I still wonder though how things might have gone if Angel could've shown Lindsey the type of kindness he was willing to show Faith, even after all she'd done. Instead we have a juxtaposition of Angel being harsh and Holland (who likely has psych evaluation files on Lindsey) playing at being supportive and making just the right moves to win Lindsey over by degrees. Honestly, I'm left wondering if the higher-ups at Wolfarm & Hart even really expected Vanessa to succeed in killing the children or if they decided she'd become too much of a liability after getting nearly caught more than once. Then they set up the job and tell Lindsey about it. So they get to test Lindsey's loyalties, subtly pressure him into a deeper commitment while giving him the idea that he's gaining more freedom, mess with Angel, and get Vanessa off the payroll all in one fell swoop.
There's a trope in dramas where there's a hierarchy, and in life, whereby the young rebel is recognised as having future leadership ability and pointed out for promotion and mentoring. So W&H are doing that with Linday, and then also they don't mind Lindsay sabotaging a client, but they can't forgive the other guy working with a corporate rival. Clients they can screw over, but rivals can't be given an inch. Defiance of authority can be a form of dominance assertion, to the effect that you can't tell me what to do because I should be giving the orders. Personally I can't stand Lindsay, because he's got the face of an asshole.
I wish I could tell you about what is coming up but..spoilers! Nice that we saw Gunn again, we've discovered a bit more about his character. Also cool that Willow is referenced although we do not see, or hear her, even when she is on the phone to Cordy.. I see your point about the prophecy, but in a sense it is redundant as a source of information for the upcoming episode, that's what Cordy's visions do,
In a case of not guilty by reason of insanity, they would only put her in a mental hospital until the doctors determine that she was no longer insane. If she's not actually insane and you have lawyers like Wolfram & Hart, getting a medical clearance probably won't be an issue. She may also be using the defense of not guilty by reason of insanity for temporary insanity. Most likely this is this is what Holland is talking about, as he talks about her childhood and how the targets are going to be children. In that case, if found not guilty by reason of insanity, she would be let go immediately.
I'm not completely sure, but I seem to recall the shows being aired on different days of the week. Buffy earlier in the week (Monday or Tuesday), Angel later in the week (Thursday, I think).
While they were both on the WB they were both shown on Tuesdays. After season 5, Buffy made its move to another network and the shows were no longer shown on the same night.
Yeah not at this time. The split in nights didn't happen until BTVS moved to UPN for seasons six and seven. After that, the WB moved AtS around all over the place.
As far as the blind woman being locked in a mental institution because of insanity, I think they may seek to, for them, easier, finagle a way around that, to them.
18:30, sure, but a powerful law firm like wolfram and heart couple easily have a lot of control over where she was sent and the procedure involved, and thus would be able to make sure shes not actually gonna stay there long.
I should correct one claim that you made. A person who is found Not Guilty by insanity by a jury is not required to receive any psych treatment as a consequence. To be required to do so by a criminal court, after being found Not Guilty, would be Criminal Contempt and a violation of the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment. *A court cannot criminally enjoin a Defendant unless they are found Guilty through a means of sufficient Due Process in a Criminal Court--a trial.* And an enjoinment (a "Restraining Order" in civil courts) would be highly scrutinized if it were enforced BY A CRIMINAL COURT. Yes, there are people who plead Not Guilty by Insanity. But those persons are not forced into treatment because they were found not guilty. *Being institutionalized is part of a plea agreement that **_CAN_** be enforced by the court if the Defendant violates a term of the agreement.* To put it short, those people did not go to an institution because a jury found them Not Guilty. They went there because they agreed not to go to trial--either because, *1. They did not think they would win; or* *2. Their Defense Attorney did not represent them adequately while negotiating their Plea Agreement.* So the Insanity Defense that Holland Manners was cooking up would have only worked if they pushed the case to a trial--and then only if the jury did not find Vanessa Brewer Guilty. Only if they were looking to negotiate a Plea Agreement would be institutionalized like you said.
@@danwiesdamageinc I kind of feel like that still gives an impression of what the series is going to do as a whole but possibly an overreaction on my part. Apologies.
I understand hating on your skin. Me and my sister have similiar skin as you... As you get older, you will look MUCH younger than your peers as time goes by... For most of my adult life I have had people absolutely shocked when I tell them my age. - I hope you have the same aging process.
Like, dude. You could have been a civil attorney. It's L.A. You could have been an entertainment lawyer. You sob story did not need to end with you helping demons and assassins.
Having an attack of conscience is understandable, so Holland can excuse Lindsey betraying the company and working with the enemy, Angel, that is. But Evil Sheldon (Bazinga) is in talks with another company, presumably because he's miffed at getting his face bloodied by an unstable Slayer, and that merits an immediate and irrevocable termination. In a strange sort of way, this actually makes a rather frightening sort of sense. The face of Evil has to allow for some of his minions to assuage their consciences, up to and including letting one get away every once in a while, so the rest of the time they can follow wholeheartedly. I've heard that the _Einsatzgruppen_ allowed its members to retire when the work got too hard, for much the same reason.
The thing is, Lindsey didn't help Angel because of an attack of conscience. He did it because the blind lady had a crush on Lindsey and that freaked him the hell out. He went to Angel with the idea of Angel killing her. It was completely selfish, and he succeeded in manipulating Angel into doing what he wanted; that is why he was offered a promotion.
@@spamfilter32 That's a read I haven't come across yet. Food for thought, but I'm skeptical. Is this your own theory (or headcanon), or is it a common one?
@@menachemsalomon I don't know if the Showrunners ever said anything specific about it, but if you watch the scene closely, the blind woman always has a little smile when she is "looking" at Lindsey, and he looks scared when he looks at her, or more specifically when he sees her looking at him. Also, Lindsey clearly never cared that the target were kids, but he did know that Angel would. If Lindsey really wanted out, he could have just left. And he certainly could have never returned to the office after Angel killed the Blind Woman; but he did. Because "getting out" was never his agenda. May be he told himself it was, but remember that when he was telling Angel his life story he said he would never be the "smiling" dummy with the boot on his neck, he was going to be the one putting his boot on the neck of the smiling dummy. Lindsey told his boss that "You don't know me." But his boss really did know him, it was Lindsey that didn't fully know himself. So, in the beginning, I don't think Lindsey fully understood his own motivations, he may have deluded himself into thinking he wanted out as a way of justifying having Angel kill the Blind Woman, but like his boss told him, he wouldn't truly be happy until he figured out his place in the world.
@@spamfilter32 Your read on what might have been going on between the woman and Lindsey, a creepy one-way attraction, is fair. But the Partners wanted the kids dead, and Lindsey saved them. So unless you think his personal history was a complete fabrication, I think his motives here were indeed to save the kids. Your interpretation is perfectly valid, but I can't get with it.
@@menachemsalomon No doubt the Partners wanted the kids dead. And I do believe Lindsey's back story, as he tells it. But remember, his motivation was to be the guy with the boot on the neck, the guy with power. And when it is over, Lindsey went back to the office to what, to quit? No, to tell Holland Mannors that he has power. Saving the kids was a byproduct, not the motivation for Lindsey's actions. WRH rewarded Lindsey despite thwarting their plans *because* he manipulated Angel to achieve his own.
You are so going to love where this is going to go based on how much you love this episode. Plus only 2 episodes before my favorite buffyverse character shows up
@@michaelstanley5575 she’s already past that episode she just hasn’t edited and uploaded the videos yet. If you look at her patreon you can see how far she actually is into the next season
Angel wasn't really into Lindsay for a lot of reasons: 1) Lindsay works for an evil law firm 2) he's not exactly his type of course, we know Angel's into Buffy lol 😉 3) Again... evil lol
Glad to have you back Alley. If you're reading this just a few quick things I've been meaning to address before watching your latest. I noticed you've recently gotten to Angel episode 2x14. Obviously we won't get to see it for a while if we're not on patreon, but I'm wondering giving the subject matter if you found it challenging to find the best response? Being from Minnesota, it's know all too well how hard it can be to talk about right now. Second thing I noticed is you're up to Buffy episode 5x14. The next two episodes you might want to watch in the same day (like the last episodes of Season 4) or skip the final scene of 15 until you're ready to watch 16. Or not. Just a something to consider. Either way Happy New Year and good luck going forward. You're doing great.
You should probably wait until she uploads those reactions if you want her thoughts on them. If she gets involved in discussions from fresh watches, she's going to get spoiled.
@@TigerNightmare I'm not asking her thoughts on the episodes themselves. Just about the process of putting it all together. Though I am trying to avoid getting into spoilers.
I love Gunn. The actor (J August Richards) is also a sweetheart and he came out as gay in 2020 🥰
Fun fact: Lindsey's actor Christian Kane originally tried out for the role of Riley over on Buffy. What could have been...
He and Buffy would have been an awesome monster fighting duo. He could sit on her shoulders and shoot his taser rifle, while she shoots her crossbow.
Dang I didn’t know that! Very interesting 😊. Also, what could’ve been if Ryan Reynolds played Xander instead of Nicholas? The amount of possibilities is insane, imagine if Riff Regan played Willow, Sarah played Cordelia, Charisma played Buffy. 🤯
@@PsychoElou666 I wasn't a big fan of Riff in the pilot. Could just be me being so familiar with Allyson, but she just felt really bland.
@@xyex Oh yeah not a fan of her performance either! I was just trying to visualize what it would’ve been like. Very glad they changed for Allyson
@@lionlyons delete that right now, idc if it says spoiler alert, you shouldn’t be posting spoiler content on alley’s yt videos, she isn’t at ats s5 yet.
Lindsey’s an incredibly well written character
No lies- Christian Kane gets sexier and more handsome as he ages. Later when he stars in LEVERAGE and THE LIBRARIAN series he is an absolute thirst trap. Plus, he’s a really good actor and singer. He’s so worth watching on any show he’s cast.
I recomend leverage. My mom calls him "the lion" because of his hair and mannerisms. Lol
"Why is this music giving me chills?"
Because Christophe Beck and Robert J. Kral composed some of the best music on Angel and Buffy. Composing gods.
The lawyer who got shot was the one Faith slammed into the table repeatedly. Ian from TPN's Buffy Guide calls him "Evil Bazinga".
His name is Lee Mercer
There’s no movement, not even a heartbeat. That’s why she couldn’t “see” him.
No heart beat, AND no breath.
I do find it interesting that Angel shows ZERO interest in "saving Lindsay's soul". He's not interested in his backstory, pain etc. He's written off Lindsay as unsalvageable. Why? Yes, he's an evil lawyer but he's not a direct murderer. Faith is. Yet Angel never hesitates in helping her. I think it speaks to the (somewhat petty) humanity of his soul: Lindsay has pissed him off/got in his way personally so Angel's written him off. It's much easier to forgive people their sins when they don't impact you personally. Yet he's not understanding at all of Buffy's struggles with Faith after Faith has done far worse personally to Buffy than Lindsay ever did to him. A very human flaw in Angel's character. And a pretty big flaw at that.
I agree completely and find this point is often passed over in this episode. It's kind of understandable given how much the episode has going on, but Lindsay was clearly riding an edge here and Angel's simple dismissal of him is a missed opportunity to at least _try_ to build a bridge.
very interesting connection i didnt make.. thank you for pointing that out!
Thank you for saying this! It always angers me the way Angel diminishes the things Faith did to Buffy as if she was wrong to want revenge on her after she was literally raped, but acts differently when he's the one personally involved. He comes off as a hypocrite in this ep.
I think age also played in a pretty big factor too though. Lindsay is a whole grown ass adult. Faith is a teen...
@@AshLee92490 Angel also helped a lot of grown women, like that actress who wanted to be turned into a vampire. The reason he doesn't want to help Lindsey is because he got in his way, like the other comment said.
So, Christian Kane, who plays Lindsay, is good friends with David Boreanaz. He also appears in a number of other shows (including one of my personal favourite TV shows, Leverage, which is basically Robin Hood meets A-Team meets Robin Hood).
I'm reminded now of seeing Kane along with other Buffy/Angel bands featuring cast members. Common Rotation, Ghost of the Robot, Kane.
Not to mention he's got a beautiful singing voice
Leverage is the best and I wish people would react to it!
Love Leverage. I recently discovered Leverage: Redemption, a sequel with original cast bar one and two new members, there's one season out and it's been picked up for a second season.
He's also friends with Jensen Ackles. And one of the stars of The Librarians, which is a fun urban fantasy/adventure show.
.
Some of the writers from Angel went on to write for the Daredevil series.
More than that: Drew Goddard (Buffy&Angel) created the series and Steven S De Knight (Buffy&Angel) ran it during Season 1. Also Doug Petrie (Buffy&Angel) co ran Season 2 and The Defenders.
7:17 Well Angel is a vampire and if you remeber, Buffy tried to read his mind and couldn't. Something about his mind being like a mirror or whatever :D So I think this is the same case :)
Not his mind being like a mirror. The mind reader's mind being like a mirror and vampires having no reflection.
I like the fact that Lindsay didn't switch over to the good guy/protagonists side.
me too. makes for a very interesting character
I thought that's where it was going and I wanted it soooo badly. I had my Cordelia/Lindsey shipper hat READY
@@razycrandomgirl ooooh! Interesting. No, no shipper brain. Don't engage, don't engage! Crap.
Lindsay is played by Christian Kane and is one of the best characters. You're in for a few more 10/10 Lindsay episodes from him that will make you love and hate him and remember him long after you're done with Angel.
I think that this episode makes Wolfram & Hart much more interesting. It shows that they're not just a bunch of one-dimensional psychopaths. They're normal people with consciences who give in to temptation.
This episode is one of many reasons I think S1 of Angel is underrated. So good!
I think with Lindsay, Holland could see the potential in his rebellion to draw him in deeper. He doesn't see having a strong bottom line as a bad thing cos he believes he can corrupt it for Wolfram and Hart's benefit. With Evil Sheldon, his betrayal was entirely about personal gain and he was dumb enough to get caught, therefore, "worthless". Lindsay showed ingenuity and ruthlessness. Those things, WFH can use.
agreed, Lindsay drew a line and Holland knew how to bend it
Perfectly said.
@@russellward4624 Thanks ☺️
Some people, including CS Lewis, have written about how the more evil someone is the less effective they are. To really succeed at your evil schemes you need virtues, like integrity and dedication and intelligence. And even courage. Otherwise you'll just be kind of nasty and pathetic.
Lindsey showed all of those things. Holland knows they need people who have those qualities to really make it in this dimension. So he eliminates venal incompetence, but he'll take virtue and bend it to his use.
@@ianburns1167 This makes sense!
This episode is the first real taste of the feel of season 2. That season is by far the best of both series, imo. The constant tension, unease, and dark feel is just unbelievably gripping. I hope you enjoy it, and I'm looking forward to your reaction to it!
Fun Fact 🙄 Jennifer Badger (Vanessa) has been Eliza Dusku’s stunt double and has been a stunt performer in practically every major movie or tv show you can think of
Can you please stop lying? While Jennifer Badger worked on Buffy and Angel as a stunt double, Eliza Dushku's stunt double as Faith was Karen Shepherd.
@@lilywong9672 😂😂😂
I’m just quoting her IMDb page and It has Vanessa listed as Eliza’s double on a couple of different projects
@@TerryNutkins3 I've also heard this and the girl fights/moves like faith.
@@lilywong9672 Jennifer Badger and Karen Shepherd both stunt doubled for Faith (Shephard was the primary one). I believe Jennifer Badger also doubled for Cordy and Drusilla.
Christian Kane (Lindsay) is incredibly talented. I suggests watching the show Leverage to see what he can really do! It’s possibly my favorite show ever, it’s such a fun, witty, clever, and caring ride! It’s a con/heist show where they take down corrupt rich people, which is so satisfying.
Leverage is so wholesome
Blind Date was a brilliant episode setting up a great finale in S1. This show really came into its own in late S1 with some stunning episodes. Lindsay going back to Wolfram & Hart, is a twist at the end. Angel is just so cool in the episode the way he kills Vanessa Brewer is brilliantly done. Holland Manners is so detestable we just cant wait to see if he gets his comeuppance. Wesley know what's in the prophecy which keeps us on tenterhooks for the finale, it doesn't disappoint. On re-watches we realise what a great show this was.
I like how well the episode sells the idea of Lindsey joining team Angel, to make it that much more of a gut-punch when he decides to stay at Wolfram and Hart. Early in the episode, Angel is lamenting his ineffectiveness in the human world. "How am I supposed to fight evil when they won't even put it behind bars?". A perfect narrative setup for Lindsey to join the team as the one who can fight Wolfram and Hart in the human legal system while Angel fights them in the shadows.
But nope. At the end of the day, Lindsey just isn't quite that noble.
I was seething! I wanted it so BAD
I thought I remembered Angel trying that "throw something at her" plan and she was smart enough not to react and just let it hit her in the face. Then I realized that was from Arrested Development.
Christian Kane is so awesome. I got to meet him once at a country western bar in Colorado. He had/has a country band. He wasn't playing when I saw him, but supporting his friends that WERE playing. He did join in for 2 songs though.
Lindsey is a VERY cool character.
Gunn is a VERY cool character.
AtS rocks.
Such a good episode; and Lindsay is a top-notch foil.
Thank you so much for all the enthusiastic Buffy/Angel reactions Alley! Have an AMAZING 2022!!
Also out of all the 150 billion Buffy reactions on UA-cam. Ur my fav
If Angel is Batman, Lindsey is Harvey "Two Face" Dent 😉 Also this episode introduced the best Wolfram and Hart character, Holland Manners 😁
I feel like Lindsay's dad was like Saul Goodman's dad.
Some people just aren't part of the solution and never will be. Also Angel once again showing he's ok with killing humans.
I see what you did there. ;)
I think blind girl should've been a recurring villain instead of a 1 off. She was menacing (& kinda hot).
I always forget how much I love this episode. Probably in my top 10 for the series.
So true about the Angel theme growing on you, I hated it when it was coming out on tv but by the second season I started to really dig it
That's an interesting point about Angel being raised rich. Perhaps that being part of the reason he's not moved by Lindsay's story, and fails to engage with him. Then again, Angel was homeless for a good chunk of time and lived off rats...
Agreed, and also that Angel kind of nails it when he suggests Lindsey's not remorseful but scared. I don't think Angel digs it when someone's first instinct is to make excuses for their bad behavior. Notice, too, the parallel to Lindsey bringing up his tough childhood and Holland suggesting the "bad childhood" defense for Vanessa.
If you thought this was a rollercoaster, just wait till the season finale!!! Honestly it’s one of my favorite season 1 finales.
It's very likely that Angel throwing the sunglasses would not be admissible as evidence in the trial. Trials have to follow legal procedures very strictly and random interruptions like that would probably just get stricken from the record.
The director Thomas J Wright directed a lot of episodes of Supernatural so you definitely get docked points for not recognizing that.
He directed an episode or 2 on a lot of big shows. Alias, Firefly, Dark Angel, The Wire, Smallville,... just to name a few.
You are not going to believe the end of this season’s finale.
Christian Kane (Lindsey) is also a singer. He's got 2 studio albums, an EP, and a live album. His second studio album, Welcome to My House!, is available for streaming on Amazon.
Wright is a great director, he has directed episodes of Smallville, One Tree Hill, Firefly, and many other great shows.
I think Angel makes a little legal error here- a hung jury is not the same thing as an acquittal. A hung jury means they couldn't get all the jurors to agree, in which case the Judge can declare a mistrial and try the case again with a new jury.
If they try the case again. Trying to get a conviction of a blind woman for a double homicide is probably next to impossible. Hence, even after the jury sees her catch the sunglasses, it still didn't convince all of them.
Alley sizing up Holland Manners
It's like recordelia says in five-by-five when she talked about men having layers "scratch the surface what do you get? more service." Lol Lindsey anyone
A ton of people who appeared in Buffy and Angel showed up on Supernatural, but I think Christine Kane in "Last Call" was the last one.
I went back to spn just to see the two of them singing ... Cause I would have been a crime if ackles and kane did not sing together.
@@razycrandomgirl Seriously! Apparently they're also good friends outside of work, although I don't know if they've collaborated musically outside of "Last Call."
The first time I saw this I didn't think it was anything special. This perspective on it definitely made me look at it again. Far far better than I gave it credit for.
And yeah, I love Wolfram and Hart's occult stuff. Mind readers and vampire security and an artifact vault, along with other things you'll see later. Definitely gets the urban fantasy feel to it.
Manners: We could have killed you - but it was just one case, and you have so much potential. So - you can leave without repercussions, OR you can have my job, as I am moving up. Either go now, or really commit to the firm. Your call.
Lindsey: I would rather rise in the system and use it, than leave with a clean conscience...
Probably the least talked about great episode of this season. Always been a fan of this one and how it leads into the season finale.
The blind woman is Faith's stunt double
I always like episodes deemed fillers, but I also hate finishing shows, the amount of shows I have 1 episode left of is insane, I'm like the Doctor(who) I dont like endings & fillers give me character & world building & also prolong the ending
OH MY FUCKING GOD I've finally worked out where I know Holland(W&H) from, fucking LOST my dude, that shits been bothering me for yearssss
I love Gunn so much, just down for anything anytime
I also love Lindsey, mans got a code, not a great one but a code nonetheless & another example of everyone being more morally grey on Angel
According to your computer when you were editing it was 1am, 76°F and Raining. Yup you definitely live in Florida.
The director for this episode, Thomas J. Wright, has directed a lot of TV show "filler" episodes, including a whole bunch of Supernatural.
When Buffy could read minds in that one episode it didn't work on Angel because ots a sort of reflection. I'd guess the same goes with these guys.
So a few things.
1. The point with the ending is that Evil is a choice. You can always choose to just walk out that door. The rest is just justification.
2. The reason Lindsey went to Angel to stop the blind woman was because he realised she had a crush on him and she freaked him out. He went to Angel to kill her so he wouldn't have to represent her again.
3. Lindsey's boss really did know him.
Get back from seeing Spider-Man and Alley uploads! Is this the best day ever? I think so 😁
Re:filler episodes. That's the thing about Buffy and Angel; there are really no episodes that don't contribute to character development in some way.
Ha! You predicted exactly what they were going to do about the disc!
It's being a vampire plus no movement. Angel has no body heat, so Vanessa can only see kinetic energy when he moves.
Actually, when you think about it, Vanessa's power was obtained similarly to Dr Meltzer's from "I Fall to Pieces".
The guy who was killed was named Lee Mercer. Lindsey McDonald, Lilah Morgan and Lee Mercer.
.
Everyone in middle management has initials in the middle of the alphabet
I feel like I've always liked this episode, but your analysis just really made me love it more and pointed out why it's so great. Dang.
I especially loved your part at the end, where you pointed out the camera angles and lighting. I always love it when you do that, as someone who does a little bit of video editing and loves to watch making of things on DVDs (I also took one film class, though I'm by no means an expert at all). But I didn't even notice how great this episode was with the cinematography. But you're right: Lindsey's entire face except for his eyes being dark, to sort of hint how he'd been reeled in by Wolfran & Hart but got a way for a little bit in this episode, is so good.
I also love Angel pretending to fall asleep and being like, "I'm sorry, I nodded off. Were you going to get to you're evil." It reminds me of Buffy with the First. "Okay, I get it. You're evil. Do we have to chat about it all day?"
Though I feel like Angel should have listened. If he had, maybe Lindsey wouldn't have made his decision at the end there. Or maybe he always would have. Who knows?
Things are definitely ramping up towards the finale. Can't wait to see your reaction to it!
And again, thank you so much for these awesome videos that you do!
The next episode is probably my favorite Angel episode. Happy new year!
If you start this video at 11:46pm and 30 seconds on New Year's Eve, you'll see Alley react to Lindsey closing the office doors right at midnight.
Holland Manners really works just the right angle for Lindsey. It's a masterful manipulation. Offering him encouragement, a place in the world, a thundering raise, and ungodly benefits. And when Lindsey goes to the good guys, he's met with hostility. Even killing Lee really just makes the point that he's not above villainy, but he still wants Lindsey on his side (or under his thumb.) And Angel's not entirely wrong; a momentary crisis of conscience isn't true change and it can end in relapse. I still wonder though how things might have gone if Angel could've shown Lindsey the type of kindness he was willing to show Faith, even after all she'd done. Instead we have a juxtaposition of Angel being harsh and Holland (who likely has psych evaluation files on Lindsey) playing at being supportive and making just the right moves to win Lindsey over by degrees.
Honestly, I'm left wondering if the higher-ups at Wolfarm & Hart even really expected Vanessa to succeed in killing the children or if they decided she'd become too much of a liability after getting nearly caught more than once. Then they set up the job and tell Lindsey about it. So they get to test Lindsey's loyalties, subtly pressure him into a deeper commitment while giving him the idea that he's gaining more freedom, mess with Angel, and get Vanessa off the payroll all in one fell swoop.
In ireland they played on sky 1. One right after the other was great
Lindsey is still morally conflicted in this episode. But in the end, he went to the dark-side. Mentored by his boss.
There's a trope in dramas where there's a hierarchy, and in life, whereby the young rebel is recognised as having future leadership ability and pointed out for promotion and mentoring. So W&H are doing that with Linday, and then also they don't mind Lindsay sabotaging a client, but they can't forgive the other guy working with a corporate rival. Clients they can screw over, but rivals can't be given an inch. Defiance of authority can be a form of dominance assertion, to the effect that you can't tell me what to do because I should be giving the orders. Personally I can't stand Lindsay, because he's got the face of an asshole.
He cant help that Christian kane js playing him. Lol
Lindsay turned 360 degrees and walked away
In 1931's _Dracula_ there's a key light on Dracula's eyes a lot too.
Gunn: Give me a good reason to help you.
Angel: It will be dangerous.
Gunn: I'm in!
:)
We don't have a definition of coolth yet, but it clearly induces screaming and swearing.
I can't remember if it's Morticia Adams or Lily Munster that was most known for the light on the eyes. But I think it was Morticia.
From one basic Floridian to another, Happy New Year.
I love that you love the intro music now; i had the same experience it totally grew on me (it's a contender for top 5 ever)
I wish I could tell you about what is coming up but..spoilers!
Nice that we saw Gunn again, we've discovered a bit more about his character.
Also cool that Willow is referenced although we do not see, or hear her, even when she is on the phone to Cordy..
I see your point about the prophecy, but in a sense it is redundant as a source of information for the upcoming episode, that's what Cordy's visions do,
In a case of not guilty by reason of insanity, they would only put her in a mental hospital until the doctors determine that she was no longer insane. If she's not actually insane and you have lawyers like Wolfram & Hart, getting a medical clearance probably won't be an issue. She may also be using the defense of not guilty by reason of insanity for temporary insanity. Most likely this is this is what Holland is talking about, as he talks about her childhood and how the targets are going to be children. In that case, if found not guilty by reason of insanity, she would be let go immediately.
All aboard the Lindsey typo train *choo choo*
Strange, I found the prophecy stuff in supernatural really lazy writing. It was just "we need a mcguffin, let's have him read a thing."
Yep they were aired back to back, that’s how we watched tjam
I'm not completely sure, but I seem to recall the shows being aired on different days of the week. Buffy earlier in the week (Monday or Tuesday), Angel later in the week (Thursday, I think).
I think originally they aired on the same day but after Buffy went to UPN the days changed.
While they were both on the WB they were both shown on Tuesdays. After season 5, Buffy made its move to another network and the shows were no longer shown on the same night.
Yeah not at this time. The split in nights didn't happen until BTVS moved to UPN for seasons six and seven. After that, the WB moved AtS around all over the place.
Glad we saw Gunn immediately again. Holland Manners is interesting and feels like he could’ve been the Mayor of Sunnydale
One LM Lawyer down 2 more to go. Lee Mercer we hardly knew ye. Only Lindsey Macdonald and Lila Morgan left
Wolfram and Hart very likely have the resources to deal with institutionalization
Re: the camera work during the heist, I guess you could say Lindsey is feeling a little.....TILTED? HEYOOO
As far as the blind woman being locked in a mental institution because of insanity, I think they may seek to, for them, easier, finagle a way around that, to them.
So happy to see another reaction! Loving your videos😊
Have such a crush on the blind assassin.
18:30, sure, but a powerful law firm like wolfram and heart couple easily have a lot of control over where she was sent and the procedure involved, and thus would be able to make sure shes not actually gonna stay there long.
I should correct one claim that you made. A person who is found Not Guilty by insanity by a jury is not required to receive any psych treatment as a consequence. To be required to do so by a criminal court, after being found Not Guilty, would be Criminal Contempt and a violation of the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment.
*A court cannot criminally enjoin a Defendant unless they are found Guilty through a means of sufficient Due Process in a Criminal Court--a trial.* And an enjoinment (a "Restraining Order" in civil courts) would be highly scrutinized if it were enforced BY A CRIMINAL COURT.
Yes, there are people who plead Not Guilty by Insanity. But those persons are not forced into treatment because they were found not guilty. *Being institutionalized is part of a plea agreement that **_CAN_** be enforced by the court if the Defendant violates a term of the agreement.*
To put it short, those people did not go to an institution because a jury found them Not Guilty. They went there because they agreed not to go to trial--either because,
*1. They did not think they would win; or*
*2. Their Defense Attorney did not represent them adequately while negotiating their Plea Agreement.*
So the Insanity Defense that Holland Manners was cooking up would have only worked if they pushed the case to a trial--and then only if the jury did not find Vanessa Brewer Guilty. Only if they were looking to negotiate a Plea Agreement would be institutionalized like you said.
Whu- wha-- was that a Tech N9ne song I just heard a clip of?:o
Dont have time to watch the video today because of New Year's shenanigans but I just wanted to comment to wish everyone a wondering New Year's
Do you recognise Lindsey from that episode of Supernatural where Dean can suddenly sing 😂
You don't remember him singing bon Jovi and REO speedwagon?
@@razycrandomgirl yeah, but not well 😂
an Elder Scroll?
One of the crown episodes.
When is the new episode coming out?
ALLEY: I hope Wolfram and Heart continues in the series
ME: [snickers]
Come on, dude.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@jaycievictory8461, what? She's over half way through season 2. Tell me she hasn't realized that Wolfram and Heart is still in the story.
@@danwiesdamageinc I kind of feel like that still gives an impression of what the series is going to do as a whole but possibly an overreaction on my part. Apologies.
I understand hating on your skin. Me and my sister have similiar skin as you... As you get older, you will look MUCH younger than your peers as time goes by... For most of my adult life I have had people absolutely shocked when I tell them my age. - I hope you have the same aging process.
Happy New Year Alley
Like, dude. You could have been a civil attorney. It's L.A. You could have been an entertainment lawyer. You sob story did not need to end with you helping demons and assassins.
Having an attack of conscience is understandable, so Holland can excuse Lindsey betraying the company and working with the enemy, Angel, that is. But Evil Sheldon (Bazinga) is in talks with another company, presumably because he's miffed at getting his face bloodied by an unstable Slayer, and that merits an immediate and irrevocable termination.
In a strange sort of way, this actually makes a rather frightening sort of sense. The face of Evil has to allow for some of his minions to assuage their consciences, up to and including letting one get away every once in a while, so the rest of the time they can follow wholeheartedly. I've heard that the _Einsatzgruppen_ allowed its members to retire when the work got too hard, for much the same reason.
The thing is, Lindsey didn't help Angel because of an attack of conscience. He did it because the blind lady had a crush on Lindsey and that freaked him the hell out. He went to Angel with the idea of Angel killing her. It was completely selfish, and he succeeded in manipulating Angel into doing what he wanted; that is why he was offered a promotion.
@@spamfilter32 That's a read I haven't come across yet. Food for thought, but I'm skeptical. Is this your own theory (or headcanon), or is it a common one?
@@menachemsalomon I don't know if the Showrunners ever said anything specific about it, but if you watch the scene closely, the blind woman always has a little smile when she is "looking" at Lindsey, and he looks scared when he looks at her, or more specifically when he sees her looking at him.
Also, Lindsey clearly never cared that the target were kids, but he did know that Angel would. If Lindsey really wanted out, he could have just left. And he certainly could have never returned to the office after Angel killed the Blind Woman; but he did. Because "getting out" was never his agenda. May be he told himself it was, but remember that when he was telling Angel his life story he said he would never be the "smiling" dummy with the boot on his neck, he was going to be the one putting his boot on the neck of the smiling dummy.
Lindsey told his boss that "You don't know me." But his boss really did know him, it was Lindsey that didn't fully know himself. So, in the beginning, I don't think Lindsey fully understood his own motivations, he may have deluded himself into thinking he wanted out as a way of justifying having Angel kill the Blind Woman, but like his boss told him, he wouldn't truly be happy until he figured out his place in the world.
@@spamfilter32 Your read on what might have been going on between the woman and Lindsey, a creepy one-way attraction, is fair. But the Partners wanted the kids dead, and Lindsey saved them. So unless you think his personal history was a complete fabrication, I think his motives here were indeed to save the kids. Your interpretation is perfectly valid, but I can't get with it.
@@menachemsalomon No doubt the Partners wanted the kids dead. And I do believe Lindsey's back story, as he tells it. But remember, his motivation was to be the guy with the boot on the neck, the guy with power.
And when it is over, Lindsey went back to the office to what, to quit? No, to tell Holland Mannors that he has power. Saving the kids was a byproduct, not the motivation for Lindsey's actions. WRH rewarded Lindsey despite thwarting their plans *because* he manipulated Angel to achieve his own.
Happy New Year, you!
Happy New Year!
Salt life, nice 👍
Happy new year
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!
You are so going to love where this is going to go based on how much you love this episode. Plus only 2 episodes before my favorite buffyverse character shows up
Dang people. You really can't resist giving stuff away. She has asked us not to make spoilers.
@@michaelstanley5575 she’s already past that episode she just hasn’t edited and uploaded the videos yet. If you look at her patreon you can see how far she actually is into the next season
@@revjim123 I thought of that, but in that case it doesn't need saying except to spoil for others. Just not needed.
Why you always talking about Fillory, when you aren't watching Magicians? haha...
...you should watch Magicians. :)
Angel wasn't really into Lindsay for a lot of reasons: 1) Lindsay works for an evil law firm 2) he's not exactly his type of course, we know Angel's into Buffy lol 😉 3) Again... evil lol
Okay now but angel sired so many dudes. Lol
shanshu prophecy come up again? no way
My eye just twitched
Glad to have you back Alley. If you're reading this just a few quick things I've been meaning to address before watching your latest.
I noticed you've recently gotten to Angel episode 2x14. Obviously we won't get to see it for a while if we're not on patreon, but I'm wondering giving the subject matter if you found it challenging to find the best response? Being from Minnesota, it's know all too well how hard it can be to talk about right now.
Second thing I noticed is you're up to Buffy episode 5x14. The next two episodes you might want to watch in the same day (like the last episodes of Season 4) or skip the final scene of 15 until you're ready to watch 16. Or not. Just a something to consider.
Either way Happy New Year and good luck going forward. You're doing great.
You should probably wait until she uploads those reactions if you want her thoughts on them. If she gets involved in discussions from fresh watches, she's going to get spoiled.
@@TigerNightmare I'm not asking her thoughts on the episodes themselves. Just about the process of putting it all together. Though I am trying to avoid getting into spoilers.
Hi