The Most Underrated Spells in 5e Dungeons & Dragons | Web DM
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Last month we talked about the spells we think could be better, so now we're talking about the 5e Dungeons and Dragons spells we think you should be paying more attention to!
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"Fire ball is completely useless in a game about court intrigue and backstabbing" sounds like some prity bold talk from someone within fireball range
"Fighters and Barbarians are useless in court intrigue campaigns"
Talking a lot of shit for a guy within *crusading* distance
@@kaseybennett7415 Hope you've got a high insight score or you're just going to end up sacking Byzantium for the benefit of the Venetians.
caladoor nah man fireball is like having a nuke. A fireball stops someone with considerable force and political protection from attacking you. Imagine if Ned stalk had a wizard with one casting of fireball against Jamie when they fought in kings landing.
@@dittmar104 Jaime charged a dragon to protect Cersei. I'm pretty sure he'd charge Ned and his fireball wizard if it would curtail Ned's inCestigation of their activities.
Whether Ned dies or Jaimie fries, fireball is still useless, the result is the same Stark/Lannister War just like Baelish and Varys(?) wanted.
Gunboat diplomacy and M.A.D scenarios based on fireball could be interesting though...
I think one reason players tend to not take these underrated spells is because bards, warlocks, and sorcerers (and to some extent wizards) don't have the flexibility that clerics and druids do. Clerics and druids can choose their spells daily, but your warlock is stuck with their same spells until the next time they level up. Because of this, these casters that can't quickly change their spells will choose the spells they know will work and are effective in many situations, which most people relate to combat. The warlock WILL take hex because it's always good in combat, even if other first level spells are more interesting.
Agree. Except I didn't take Hex because concentration is dumb and I'd rather use it on other spells.
Yeah I agree, and I find it strange that these classes get the ability to change spells Willy nilly. I understand it from a fluff standpoint but from a balancing standpoint, these classes are already drastically considered the most op classes. And I don't see why a sorcerer can't change their spells after a long rest, it's strange considering their magic is for the most part a manifestation of their will. Warlocks are also essentially a cleric but they don't worship their patron like a cleric does their deity but makes a pact/sketchy deal with them, everything else is for the most part the same.
One game I'm playing, I'm a warlock who's day job is archaeology. They're an academic who accidentally fell into a pact with their patron. So as a level 6 Warlock, the only spells they have which do damage are Eldritch Blast and Armour of Agathys. The rest are all things like Detect Magic, Identify, Magic Circle, Dispel Magic, Major Image, Levitate. Cantrips are things like Guidance, Mending, Mold Earth.
In the 4 session played with this character none of the spells has felt like a dud pick. Not all have been used (yet) but all were potentially applicable depending on what plans we went with as a party. I'm also roleplaying that my character doesn't get to choose their invocations, either; their patron does. My patron being a muse of history and knowledge, all my invocations are related to the uncovering and discovering of things; Devil's Sight (delve into the dark), Eldritch Sight (find hidden magicks), and Eyes of the Rune Keeper (scribe lost knowledge). No Agonizing Blast, no Hexes.
As a DM, I homebrew any spell or cantrip which is almost forced upon a class as being automatically assigned at level 1 without using a known spell slot.
So druids get Druidcraft, Wizards get Prestidigitation, Warlocks get Eldritch Blast and Hex, Bards get Vicious Mockery, Rangers get Hunter's Mark, etc.
@@charliescheirmann2926 in our campaign we allow sorcerers to change spells during down time, which helps with stagnation between level ups. Long rest was discussed but we felt they would need more time to play with their magic in order to know it.
Ways that my wizard used Mold Earth, making it his signature spell:
1. Uproot a tree to make it fall on someone
2. Uproot a stretch of forest over the course of several minutes for the lumber
3. Sweep the floor of a tavern
4. While preparing for a town to be sieged, create a chokepoint just beyond the gate
5. Prepare the Mold Earth action for when a captain's horse would plant its feet on the ground
6. Move the dirt from beneath someone chasing him creating a -5ft gap followed by a +5ft mound
7. Tunnel under the winds of a vortex
8. Bury the BBEG's teleportation circle
9. Uproot a stretch of forest so we can take our cart into undeveloped lands
10. Wedge a door shut
You convinced me.
Remember, it works on stone too
It's cool, but it's heavily dependent on your DM. The best effects all require LOOSE earth, and your DM gets to decide what that means.
@@expressionamidstcacophony390 Yeah I feel like a lot of people are thinking you can just dig up any terrain you want.
Most terrain would be unneffected by Mold earth since its compact and hard. Loose earth would be like a recently filled in grave or a landslide. MAYBE the very topmost layer of soil could be considered loose earth, but anything more than an inch or two down would become hard.
I certainly have no idea how you could interprete the spell to being able to uproot a tree since the dirt you excavate has no force too it and just travels along the ground.
@@TheGoondas87 50% of the above ideas are impossible, but the other 50% are excellent
Feather Fall is a must have spell for me, I might never have to actually use it, but you'll be glad you had it the one time you did need it.
Leivve it’s like car insurance. You hope to never have to use it but you are so glad you have it when you get into an accident (DM tries to TPK by a large fall).
@@bagamer13 I am of the belief that if you give yourself a spell you can't think of how to use it, having the spell will teach you how to use it.
I ended an adventure a session or two early with feather fall. DM had a temple quarantined under a magic barrier. We were going to have to fight our way through the surrounding forest and through the temple to a specific room. But we knew the guy that controlled the barrier, and the room had a hole in the roof. So we climbed on top of the barrier, dropped through it, then feather falled directly to our destination
Like that chick in AvP says: "I'd rather have one and not need it, than need it and not have one"
But you will only use it if the DM decides to TPK your party. In which case he should already know you have Featherfall and should choose a different path to TPK.
The problem with modifying spells, such as Grease, is that before long you'll have a long list of modified spells and good luck with that. That's how campaigns die; too many house rules.
What about one on under appreciated monsters? Myconids come to mind
^^^^THIS^^^^
I played in a one-shot that involved myconids and tortles working together. Late into the game, one of us figured out that the DM was running us through the original Super Mario Bros.
@@godsamongmen8003 thats awesome
I love Myconids
There are definitely monsters I don't remember because I don't use them or see them used
I really like the idea of a wizard literally building their own wizard's tower. All you really need is Mold Earth, Wall of Stone and time. Sure, the wall of stone spell specifies that the shapes have to be simple but the tower would be structually sound and functional.
concentration would disagree
@@orionar2461 if you maintain concentration for the entire spell duration, then the stone walls become permanent nonmagical stone.
Too bad you'll never have a good foundation. Mold Earth only moves loose earth, and Wall of Stone needs to touch stone, so unless you're stumbling across a perfectly good basement by itself you're just going to make a tower that falls over after a few years.
As someone who knows how buildings are constructed. No. Just No.
Tasha's Hideous Laughter is great. My Bard made the habit of " I hold my action to cast THL if they stop laughing"
Self fulfilling prophecy and waste of spell slots.
To ready a spell you must cast it, thus consuming the spell slot for it, and then maintain concentration on it (which can be broken if you are struck for damage before the triggering effect).
Since Tasha's Hideous Laughter requires concentration, you immediately drop your previous casting, the trigger is met (they stopped laughing), and you then immediately cast the spell again.
Oh so that's why readying a spell consumes the spell slot
@@HeroGuy3 Yeah. Additionally, you can only hold a readied spell for one turn, then it is lost. Very edge case usage for readying any spell that isn't a cantrip due to the high potential cost.
@@JohnHegner If you don't finish casting THL the second time, why would it take up concentration? You don't have to focus on maintaining a spell that doesn't exist yet.
@@Klespyrian you focus on holding the magical energy to CAST it. It would also require Concentration to hold a Fireball.
One thing you have to remember, many spells have changed over the years between editions! I have been playing since AD&D 1E, and confuse different editions of some spells! A lot of the underrated are better learned by scroll or trade versus the spells you learn as you level up.
Back in AD&D, illusions spells were great but now they are a lot weaker. I played a lot of Gnome Illusionists in the 20+ years of playing AD&D.
Scrolls make many of the underrated spells just fine. Something you keep in your pocket for that day when it actually does rain zombies.
I spent about two weeks upon reaching level 3 trying to decide what my arcane trickster's third magic spell should be. Finally I landed on the alternative text for Illusory Script and found that I could target someone to get their signature and seal on some innocuous exchange and then pass off the note to other characters for my nefarious gains. Things like having some guard sign and seal a paper acknowledging receipt of some supplies while the alternative message is for the release of my comrades and to everyone except that one guard it appears that way. Until you get into a major location where every document is scrutinized with detect magic you're golden but for your backwater fort you should be able to get away with a lot.
One of the most underrated spells has gotta be Legend Lore. It’s the spell that really allows a DM to just talk about their world to their players about they (the players) stuff they care about. If a player plans on using this spell, they may want to let the DM know ahead of time just so they don’t get caught off guard
Makes side quests for magic items
Hey I do admit that a lot of players use damage based spells a lot in games, although I once tried to break the mold of the norm once by playing a warlock who had no physical spells that do damage. it was so fun using spells such as mage hand and unseen servant to steal goods from a bandit camp and there weapons before my party set off the alarm as I snuck off into the shadows unharmed, made a great game of DND, but in the end of it all I was outclassed by the damage dealing powerhouse paladin and the buffs given to him by the bard.
My party's favourite spells for cantrips are: firebolt and minor illusion. First level: mage armour, magic missile, longstrider and thunderwave. Second Level: Invisibility and scorching ray.
DndDom is linked to Castr, but for Spellcasters who like control the combat. Linked to Order Domain Clerics.
Thanks for including Mold Earth. I've been running a researched version of the spell that allowed my wizard to use ice instead of dirt in the Frostmaiden campaign. The fun never stops. Until you foul up your initiative, get frostrayed by a yeti and fumble your deathsave twice.
Something I always tell new players is that they don't need to optimize their characters. D&D's default difficulty is balanced in a way that doesn't assume optimized characters. So for that reason, they should choose whichever options which seem fun to play. Of course for some people, having the most powerful options is what is most fun for them; that's great, too.
Web DM: *show extensive knowledge on D&D spells and magic in general*
Me, a Barbarian player: "What's a spell slot?"
It's that thing you can give those weak little mages when you get smashy.
(If you go unearthed arcana of course)
I have a Firbolg Transmuter who took all the earth-based spells and very few fire spells, partially because they are almost all transmutation and partially because forests are flammable and fireball could be way too destructive. Had a great moment using mold earth while our cleric cast gust of wind to close off the doorway to a room while creating a high-pressure wind tunnel. Great time.
I love building spellcasters that can do solid damage without wasting many spell slots, that way I can save them for utility stuff. I love busting out something no one ever uses like jump or arcane lock. That's why I like hexblades, and I loved my artificer because he could do tons o damage without needing to burn slots
I love both of those spells! So many times I've seen wizards or sorcerers dump strength and now the whole party is stymied by a dreaded 10-foot hole in the hallway, and I've made great use out of cutting off enemy reinforcements (or their escape route) by sealing a door shut.
Spells like mage armor & fireball get chosen because most campaigns have a lot of combat and images are typically squishy and whimsy. There's not a lot campaigning that uses spell casting to solve puzzles and do much of anything unless the player is creative or lucky. And in 5th wizards traded a whole lot of power for only a few more HP. With out these gold spell a wizard could end up dead or next to useless in a fight.
I like that description of magic being something deeper that underlies the fabric of reality. I do think that's easy to under utilise role play wise
To be fair most Dm's pick the same kind of spells that most the players do. The DM's got to mix it up too.
I don't know if it's considered underrated, but I love Shape Water. Unless you're in a desert or something, water should be fairly easy to find, so you always have a ready source to draw from. You can use the spell to make bridges, platforms, cover, difficult terrain, sculptures, fake blood, fake ale, fake potions, distractions, etc.
Fuck yeah! Good to see Mold earth getting some love, seriously it's one of my favorite spells and pretty much the biggest reason I went with pact of the tome as my warlock.
Trust me, when you are in a cabin surrounded by zombies and you need to quickly block off some entrances you'll be glad you have it....
Mold earth is MEGA underrated. It's a bloody cantrip, so you can cast is as an action, and your bonus action. Anyone who has ever dug a pit by hand knowns that a 5' cube of earth is a hella lot. And that's 10' of movement per turn casting it rtwice. Use it in dungeons to bring along an ever=present barricade that triggers floor traps and can be used; to barricade doors, form a mound for partial cover wherever you need it, create a ramp or hump for climbing or reaching higher, spread it out a bit to then create difficult terrain wherever it might come in handy, kill an enemy guard on top of it then mix it around until it absorms all the blood so his body doesn't leave bloodmarks/trails everywhere for others to find, use it to create a form/spot someone can enter stealth, use it to disguise another pit you've created, snuff out fires with it, enable other spells that require stone or loose rock laying about, etc.
For F sake, its enough earth &/or rocks to bury a number of people under so you can tie people up, THEN cover them leaving only their heads exposed... hows that for being incapacitated? Sure they might eventually escape their bonds, but you've just provided them a constant disadvantage. And they will still have to dig themselves out. Make it even more difficult by crafting a box that a head can fit in (or use a bucket) with an opening on the side for their neck, and a wooden tube connected through the top. Place the breathing tube box/bucket over the person's head and as you FULLY bury them, they will still be able to breathe (so long as the weight of all that dirt doesn't actually crush-asphyxiate them first). Place them in a coffin with an air tube then bury them, and the chances they'll escape are even worse.
Needles to say this is one of my all-time favorite spells, for the reasons stated as well as others.
HuGGz
Infestation as your main damaging cantrip to keep in theme with the trash wizard aesthetic? Damn right Infestation as your main damaging cantrip. Killed a vampire with that shit. Nearly killed him by "throwing the book at him" but he counterspelled my catapult and as a result got killed in a much more embarassing way.
How exactly did you kill a vampire that way? They have Misty Escape.
@@ashmit8268 As far as I recall it couldn't reach it's resting place in time so it died. It was basically under compulsion by a Lich to invade this town so it was way far away from it's home.
It was also a modified statblock (hence why it had spellcasting) so I don't know exactly how the DM was running it.
Good stuff guys. I tend to min/max when I build PCs. Taking spells that are underrated can fuel imagination in how to use them. You’ve given me a lot to ponder.
The only grease I'm aware of that is not extremely flammable is aeroshell grease. It has a high proportion of bentonite clay which is a fire retardant. There are many varieties of grease, but regular lithium grease is not close to the most flammable type. Many greases have pigments or metal additives which make the grease more flammable or emit more dangerous fumes when ignited.
reminds me of the old spectrum game chaos, when summoning a creature you choose if its real or illusion. Their was a free spell called disbelieve that has a chance to destroy said summon.
Another brilliant video gents! Always enjoy your even handed approach to these things, nothing is black and white. Keep up the great work!!!!
I use a D10 as my timer. Every round is six seconds, ten rounds is a minute. I cast and start the die on 1, move it up every turn, on 10 it finishes. Or goes to a D100 with a D6 if it is an hour cast. D6 shows ten minute slots, D100 counts minutes up to ten (D10 as above, D10-00 for how minutes up to ten). Of course, that rarely comes up as combat rarely lasts a minute..
The cantrip _Shape Water_ has kept my eldritch knight from drowning a few times.
(I had to pass a casting check to create the air bubbles.)
Something I like to do with my players, is that I make the most ''powerful'' spells more expensive and rare, to reflect their effectiveness, that way they'll be more inclined to try out different spells they can find in chests or in shops. Of course they can still take the spells upon level up, but if you were so inclined you could house rule it so you can only learn spells through level up if you've seen them before or something along those lines.
These intros are about to ascend past the astral plane
Remember that Zephyr Strike can be used on ranged attacks.
I find it's a great spell for my Horizon Walker ranger...
As for spells in play vs as written, a huge one is Dancing Lights. I've never seen someone take it and *not* use it to give disadvantage on attacks to low INT creatures. The first time I saw that I was like "Huh, cool use of the spell." But since I see it *every time* it's as if people think that's just what the spell does.
Treantmonk has his own Channel.
I love Twinning Enlarge on our Barbarian and Paladin. Or when the Paladin isn't around, Twin Enlarge on the Barbarian and a rock he can barely throw. Enlarge both upon throwing.
If you wanted the Grease spell to target something other than the normal area of affect, I can see how the components change. Imagine a small bag of miniatures, that represent the sword, spear, rope all with a smattering of grease on them. The one casting such a spell would have to carry THOSE components in a separate pouch to prevent getting their other components contaminated.
A friend of mine was in a game where he killed some gnolls, who were flying on magical disks, by casting Tasha's Hideous Laughter. Giant hyenas died laughing so hard they rolled off their disks.
I love enhance ability! it saved my negative charisma cleric from embarrassing himself in front of nobility, also boosted a sorcerer to talk us out of royal punishment. I used it for Charisma a lot.
Longstrider is such a nice buff to give to your allies that need to close the distance, no concentration too, just give it to everyone, w00pw00p!
Tash'a Hideous Laughter cast from secret on a noble (or his subordinate) during a funeral (or similar proceeding) in order to destroy his/her standing...
Palace Cryer: The King is dead! Long live the king!
PC Bard infiltrating court: *mumbles in arcane*
Duchess Alaina Reophold, Second of her name, heir to the Flaming Throne: *snicker*
Court: *gasps in unison*
Idk how over or under rated it might be, but in my group it's become a meme that Banishment is the best spell in the game.
Multiple times we've used it to either give ourselves a little extra time during a fight without one of the big enemies, we've banished creatures invading from other planes, and avoided the encounter all together, and a couple times when we have been really screwed, we've banished ourselves back to the material plane to escape a fight we couldn't win. (Really hard to find each other when you're scattered across the globe.)
Since grease has a material component for pork rind or butter I would guess that it is that kind of grease
Fireball hits a 20' radius. That happens to be twice the size of half the rooms I ever have encounters in, so the spell might as well read, "Blow yourself to Hell." Meanwhile I had an experience of a witch bolt saving the party from a TPK because the DM ruled it was still tethered to the ghost that possessed a party member.
EDIT: One small but potentially world affecting change for Grease it to change the duration to instantaneous.
I'd say that the group influences it too. I don't want to be a selfish player and if I pick all fringe spells that are fun but wind up in a TPK I'd feel terrible. Like say I'm a cleric and don't have cure wounds and revivify good to go. But I still think there's room to have at least 2-3 utility lesser known spells that can be useful
I didn’t think mold earth would be that big a deal. Then my players dug a moat around a besieged town and then dug a river to a nearby lake.
0:27 LAUGHED SO HARD!!! Very lowkey!
25:33 Well I can assure you after CR2E92(I think) that the spell will be used much more for the time being!!
Two closely related spells I heavily edited, that my players like, are Phantasmal Killer and Weird. No one would choose Weird over Wish and I find the spell very interesting, summoning a group of nightmare creatures within an area, and it used to have a chance to kill. But the damage is inconsistent compared to Meteor Swarm. So I made the two spells more utilitarian with a secondary aspect I call the Lover's Aspect.
Instead of summoning a personal murderer you summon the object of the subject's desire which they can choose to be charmed by or not. It does no damage, but sets off all the senses of the target and cannot threaten or harm them. It can only be seen by you and the target as it is an illusion and lasts a day for Phantasmal Killer. A year for Weird. You can keep 9 of them active at once for Weird, and can selectively shut them off whenever you want, or recast the spell to extend the time. Weird is more accurate to the desires and dreams of the target than Phantasmal Killer.
Imagine using this on "I wish every living thing was dead" Orcus, what his object of desire would be shaped as from casting it.
Again, not to hate on a cool spell like Mold Earth, but most of its fun applications require LOOSE earth. In other words, unless somebody came along and dug all that dirt up with a shovel or a plow first, your DM will have to waive the requirement for it to do anything interesting.
Pathfinder Grease can be used on weapons or on the character for a particular effect. You can also just make a puddle on the ground or for a slightly different effect a puddle right under the enemies feet. I guess 5e nerfed it.
Alot of spells get bad wraps due to the homebrew dm rules vs RaW when it comes to things.... also certain DM rule of cool vs a new dm for things like illusions ect.
that's why you roll on a table to see what spells you know in Lamentations of the Flame Princess.
The issue with illusion is just the fact that it's.. well as yall said it's so vague, and more mechanics centered GMs would just ignore it entirely whilst other GMs have found minor illusion to do more damage than any fireball.
It doesn't seem like it should be that hard for players to stick to RAW features of the spells and for DMs to not metagame npc reactions, but I guess it is.
Witch bolt awesome spell imo
People don't like Tasha's Hideous Laughter? That's one of my *favorite* spells, especially for a bard. (Of course, telling a bad joke should be a mandatory verbal component.) Big bad bruiser enemy has a lousy Wisdom save? Great! Drop prone and don't take actions until you can succeed on a save. Oh, and you're humiliated. What's not to love?
I also don't get why Witch Bolt is unpopular. Automatic damage if you land the initial hit (which makes things hilarious if your target tries to hide -- ZZAP). Out of combat, it's great for "enhanced interrogation." I've conditioned one DM to twitch whenever I make the sound "BZZT."
I look through guides and watch videos on spells, so that i can get ideas of how other people use them. I DON'T like taking spells that everyone takes, like eldritch blast for a warlock, or just plain fireball. My warlock uses chill touch and toll the dead as their main attacks, which leaves invocations open for other utility instead of trying to buff EB. Fireball.. ehh, it's just boring to me because everyone thinks if you can cast a spell, you should have FB, I'd much rather have counter spell for those moments where you need it instead.
One way my group used grease in our campaign, we set up a death hall trap. Enemies were chasing us, we ran down an alley and put grease on the ground, then used mold earth or something like that to make spikes on the ground and the wall at the end. When the enemies ran in the alley and failed their check, they went on a trip through the meat grinder.
I would like some debuffs etc that arn't concentration, Ray of Enfeeblement as an example was decent in 3.5, in 5th it is now a level higher and concentration, and they get to save every round.
I can’t help my ocd after multiple videos with the same mistake so Say it with me Ge (with a hard E regular guh sound) ass (sounds like ahs, imagine how brits pronounce soft a sounds) Geass. If you need more examples there’s an excellent anime by the name of Code Geass I think it’s on Netflix. CC is a great example of a warlock patron btw. Love the show, also now I want to put zephyr strike on my Paladin build somehow
A person could argue, the "magic user" like the player, has heard the reputation of certain spells. Leading to those spells being selected more often, spells would probably fall in and out of popularity.
Wasn't "Tasha" a real teenage player who made a spell suggestion that TSR (presumably Gygax) ran with and fleshed out because her idea was so interesting?
I always take disguise self whenever I play a kenku, you become a bit over powered, but it can be hilarious.
Does the illusion of a lit candle cast light?
I tend to pick my spells based on my character's personality.
around 9 minutes you mentioned the idea of picking "sub optimal spells" and by doing so making it more difficult for the party.... I hate to always go back to the dm but if you have a player who is picking those sub optimal picks for spells rewarding them as a DM by making that spell the Key to a difficult situation could go a long way to make people in the party second guess their choices.
I loved this episodes intro lol keep it up!
You guys keep saying 'tick' and all I can think of is
"SPOOOOOOOOON!!!!"
SPOOOOOOOON!
"Why are you picking your own spells?"
For the same reason you're making your own backstory. Imagine how bad it would suck to make most of your character and have the most important choices taken away from you. A better approach would either be to offer a couple bonus spells (from your underused list) or make sure that the players know that there are situations where the less-used spells might be handy.
How are spells part of the backstory when players never explain how they got them? They literally aren't mentioned in the backstory 99% of the time, idc who it is
@@foxwilliam3655 True, most people probably don't go into that level of detail. But if you're deciding who your parents were, where you were born, and whether or not you were blessed with some unknown magic power, I think its reasonable that you can also decide what spells you were given.
From a more utilitarian perspective, it might just really suck to play your character if you can't take the spells you really want. That could really, really kill the fun.
I wish Armor of Agythys was a bonus action
Curse of the Macroid Toe....also know as Gout
The simple answer as to why a spellcaster gets to choose their spells is that the character isn't choosing the spells. The player is. Whatever spells the players choose are the spells that are being granted by the patron, bloodline, deity, oath, one's connection to nature, or happened to be learned from an external source by the wizard. I dislike the idea of random spells at first level, removing the players' freedom to play the character they want and possibly pigeonholing them into being useless early on in the campaign; a more elegant solution would be just restricting the spell lists to whatever you want them to be able to pick.
I have always felt mages should be on a spell point system. Then you don't have that same set of defensive and offensive spells chosen.
See, my brain goes Grease>Grease Fire>Greece Fire>Greek Fire. Cover their boat and light 'em up!
In my current game, my kobold sorceror took "Mold Earth" because... he's a kobold.
Not long into the campaign, the party decided to take a pirate ship UPRIVER, through shallow rapids, to escape a Giantish invasion fleet.
The keel of the ship was about to be destroyed, the ship running aground, the party forced to retreat overland.
So the kobold sorc wonders, "If I stand at the prow, can I use Move Earth on the mud and silt at the bottom, carving a trench where the keel can fit?"
That, I decided, was gonna be a helluva thing. I made him roll Acrobatics checks during the skill challenge to smoothly match the movement and speed of the ship.
He gets high roll after high roll. He starts going into, basically, an Earthbending dance, casting in one smooth motion after another. When the ship is changing direction, he sees it and adjusts the angle.
Afterward, there is a 5' wide trench wending its way up the riverbed. The deeper, calmer part of the river lies ahead, and they have a coastal pirate vessel sailing upriver into the heart of Droaam.
It was a helluva thing.
Great story. I actually love that spell. Used it to make graves, make a pit to camp in a windy wasteland, made combat obscurement and barricades. Pretty good stuff. I still want to change the direction of a stream or river once.
"Lonely Magic Mouth" works on so many levels
Jacob Trost I think I found my new Grindr headline lol.
I have uses for this as well lol
To be fair, mentioning Eldritch Blast as one of the best spells is unfair. It's a class feature hidden as a cantrip.
It's a whole class. The only reason warlock is halfway viable is EB. (Yeah warlock is cancer)
@@CaptainDCap I play a GOO warlock and havent used EB yet :P But its more of a rp character. I have a tentacle staff (reskinned shillelagh from Tome) that he uses.
@@WaffleRaven Nobody's telling you you can't have fun playing any type of character. Doesn't take away the fact that warlock is objectively worse without EB.
To be honest, the entire class is a mess.
@@CaptainDCap I agree with you on that Warlock is a little messed up I wouldn't call it cancer or a broken mess, but with how it works I don't think EB is what makes the class viable or holds the warlock together, it's just a favourable crutch over other attack cantrips because the class can invest resources into it to make it stronger than the other options.
personally from my point of view after playing a warlock and running a campaign with a warlock and some talking with the Player/DM about the class usual end up with reworking the invocations with either affecting a different attack cantrip or being more universally applied for variety, the other solution is give the warlock more chances to use spells, the solutions I got to see and use in the games I've played was instead of ending up with 4 slots by 17th level you end up with 8 slots, just look at when you level and when you get slots and add additional slots half way between when the class actually gets them, the other solution was have your 4 total spell slots by the time you start getting mystic Arcanum your slots are 1st level - 1 slot, 3rd level - 2 slots, 6th level - 3 slots, 9th level - 4 slots, you get out of the "I cast Eldritch blast" territory much quicker you have more options to do stuff and you still don't compete spell slot wise with other classes.
but yeah, EB is kinda just an average cantrip that a warlock can empower and customise but I don't think it shuts down other cantrip choices, or is the reason anyone should pick warlock, the class has plenty more to offer in so many other ways than a 4d10 damage, with 4 chances to miss cantrip.
@@CaptainDCap They aren't objectively worse. They can actually function extremely well without it despite the perception and skewed reasoning people use in favor of EB. There are builds that can function entirely without EB to the level of EB if not better. The easiest and most common one can actually still be ranged if you wish and overall uses less invocations than an EB heavy build and can do more damage than EB does when built right as well as being filled out with all the vital stuff to reach a potential full potency at a lower level. This is true for a couple of different Pact of the Blade Builds and associated invocations/feats.
People also falsely equate the way it attacks to be better. Which it actually isn't. The evocations improve it But that's only when you ignore certain things about other cantrips and why you might use them and extra properties most other cantrips start with already. Then you realize that your actually having to use a class function to empower it as a choice which actually bothers some people and they think certain class features should apply to all cantrips and not just EB (primarily the charisma modifier adding damage to all of them instead). It gets even worse when you realize that to actually make it better you have to use some questionable tactics about applying those class effects for some cheese effects to attempt to make it better.
There is also the fact that there are sage advices out there that people latch onto religiously that are bent to purposely work in favor of EB despite the fact that there are other sage advices put out that would work against certain effects being used the way they are for EB on any other spell like EB (Scorching Ray and it's like only being able to apply it's stat modifier to one ray but EB gets to apply it to all of it's rays despite the fact that the two spells function the same except for how they scale their attacks and the number that they start out with. Which could be attributed solely to the fact that Scorching ray is a level 2 spell and EB a cantrip but this also applies to any other class features and stuff modifying how the ray works where they can't be used on multiple rays for other spells by the older rulings but they can be used on multiple rays for EB for some EB cheese.
My favorite underrated spell is probably "Speak With Animals"
They payoff isn't always _That_ great, but it's fun to see the spark in a DM's eyes when they ask theirself "hmm what _does_ the villain's horse think of him?" or "why _is_ the bear attacking the party?"
Bribe the squirrles for info
As a DM, I would be glad for the ooportunity to get to roleplay animals. It's absurd and fun, and a really cool way to get some information to the players.
"What does the fox say!?"
It's all fun and games until your the DM who is expected to give every Animal the Party meets a name and personality.
My dm decided all our horses are communists and make our druid cry.
With spell selection, I like to build towards a theme. A Storm Sorcerer who takes spells that control wind and do lightning, thunder, and cold damage. An Undying Warlock that leans _hard_ on a vampirism theme with spells like Spider Climb, Gaseous Form, Charm Person, Polymorph, and, yes, Vampiric Touch. A Necromancer who works as an undertaker, who has a squad of skeletons carry caskets, casts Gentle Repose to keep the deceased from being animated and Arcane Lock to seal their casket, and buries it in moments with Mold Earth.
Whether the spells are stellar is irrelevant. The point is being on-brand.
Bluecho4 you’ve got the right idea
100% This is how I prefer to play. I consider my background when I'm a starting level character. "Why do I know this spell?" is a good question. The only wizard I played that started with more than 1 offensive spell was from a military background.
Exactly. My thunder/teleport themed bard and my acid/poison themed wizard sacrifice a bit of *DAMAGE* but playing them is amazing and comes naturally due to themes.
100%. Many say fire>cold damage. I say Warhammer Ice Maiden ftw. Plus if my niece wants to play Elsa who am I to be douche and tell her it's unoptimized?
@@JayfroC this is actually a good idea on many levels. If only because you are eligible to use your Unarmored Defence for AC in wild shape.
A large part of this problem is the fact that the number of spells known for a lot of classes are pretty low. It's a lot more managable if you are playing wizard/ priest/ druid but all the other classes have to make some pretty hard choices.
giving "domain" spells is the best fix for this problem, instead of just an expanded list of spells.
@@averymalone2164 I give my players their expanded spell list as "domain" spells so they can have more layers.
That's why I usually pick the most optimal spells. It's about resources. Even for a Wizard. Not every campaign offers enough scrolls, gold or time to scribe spells into one's spellbook. So, one had to prioritize.
However, I believe it's how it's supposed to be.
Yeah, I agree, there has to be a choice that's made. I'm sure most of us learned pretty young that games become a lot less fun when you turn on the god mode cheats ^_^ And it's not like it's all black and white, there is some room for choice and customisation even when you are picking some of the more optimal spells aswell. It just all comes down to how your playgroup handles or homebrews them.
But that's also why I think it's kind of pointless to argue against a system like Treantmonk's spell rating system (whom i'm admidditly a big fan of) like WEB DM did in the video, because that's where you completely ignore the fact that all his video's operate on a purely RAW-basis. Because that's the most standard baseline everyone who plays this game can get to. He also clearly states that if your group chooses to handle things diffrent then what's wtitten in the books then that's completely fine, and has a ton of solid homebrew ideas himself, but there is always use in knowing what spells function the best in the game and which might need some homebrewing.
@@bacchus8081 Web DM explicitly complimented Chris and acknowledged the nuance of his discussions. They called out the people who read the rankings and spout them as law, especially without the nuance people like Treant
In 3.5, grease specifically noted any solid surface, the ground, or an item, so its understandable people will want to use it that way if they're coming out of 3.5 into 5e
This problem is a symptom of the poverty of the D&D magic system. When spells always do the same thing, some of them clearly become more useful and thus optimal. Since D&D is a game and most people like succeeding, forgoing the best spells is not usually an option.
That's why I'm very much in favor of allowing cleverness with spells. Sure, Grease SAYS it makes grease on the ground, but a precise enough caster should be able to slick up a table, or a chair or something. Require an additional check if they want to target something specific, and make the DC higher if they're trying to grease someone's bow string or something of that sort. Don't just give it to them for free, otherwise you're going to say something you very much regret later. Like Knock can undo knots in ropes. Next thing you know Knock is the most overpowered spell in the game and you're just ruining the entire world by undoing all the knots.
If you give them the opportunity to use the weird spells, people will think of very interesting things to do with those spells. Illusory script can be very handy in forging papers, and in theory you shouldn't have any issues creating a picture, maybe if you do a dex or intelligence check depending on the circumstance. Boom, instant tool to find someone you're searching for faster. I've seen loads of people use magic mouth as a portable alarm spell.
There's lots of spells in the game where if you just give the players a bit more freedom, they'll actually use them more. Like a ring of silence that just casts the silence spell once a day, or a key that will cast arcane lock on any lock you touch it to, but only one lock at a time, maybe it has charges or some kind of other limit. Making magic items is a really good way to get players to pursue different spells, go on quests to collect specific ingredients, maybe befriend particular NPCs if said NPC has special access to a skill or resource that could perpetuate this. Don't give them unlimited magic items, make ALL of these rather expensive, but allow them to work towards such things.
@@haku8135 this. I've had the most fun when playing when as a player I'm allowed to do clever or obscure things with spells, or at least try. It kind of kills the benefit of playing a caster if you are hamstringed constantly by restrictive rulings, or even rulings that go expressly against the spell text, it kills any reason to pick even medium-popularity spells and leads to everyone playing the same way, which leads to bad games imo
Oh man, talking about crashing the medieval economy with magic made me think of a cranky innkeeper talking trash to adventurers about "oh, you need a place to sleep now? What's the matter, can't cast your tiny hut tonight?"
Bruh I could made an entire campaign revolving around certain spells becoming impossible to cast, and how the party investigates to find the root cause of the problem.
Eric I'm going to have my NPC tavern owners and stuff sass the party like this now.
On the subject of Grease's exact wording: that's why (some) spells get low ratings. If your DM is gonna let you do a bunch of things with it that the spell doesn't actually say you can do, then of course it's better. But you can't rate assuming DM leniency, because that will vary from DM to DM. You have to go by what the spell actually says you can do.
I once DM'd a party that never figured out the wizard's 'Summon Banana Peels' spell was just Grease because they were so stuck on 'grease = oil' in their heads. It helped that I was explicit the bananas evaporated after the spell's duration ended or left the effected area, clearly marking them as magic bananas.
Grease is a good spell raw though, I'm surprised it is considered underrated.
@@Eversca Yeah, I'm not actually sure I've seen anyone call Grease *bad*, but it was the one they brought up early on.
@Colin Deal Several spells are also under rated because they don't have direct affects on enemies or they don't deal damage, or certain types of damage in certain instances. So they are discounted because that idea that doing damage measures a big part of a spells worth. That's broken down somewhat in the last couple of years but it's still a very big problem. Grease falls under this because it affects an area but it's not guaranteed to affect an enemy and it doesn't do damage. But it can potentially restrict or affect things like enemy movement or positioning when you do use it since it's more of a low level area control spell rather than a direct damage spell.
@@Vespuchian I like that bit of flavoring for the spell.
While I did not choose it as one of my free spells, I actively sought out "Enlarge/Reduce" to counter the most dangerous of D&D bosses...
The Dreaded Lock/Door.
I have also expressed interest to my DM about most of the spells you named in this video.
Magic Mouth: Cast it on a stone and if my character needs to separate from the group for a number of days, it would then be triggered to say, "Meet me at..." and then a location. The specifics of days and location would vary upon story relevancy.
Speaking of Jack Vance, the spell "Imprisonment" is almost word for word "The Spell of Forlorn Encystment." In one of The Dying Earth Books, the main character (I hesitate to call him the protagonist) messes up the spell and DOES INDEED cause a whole bunch of people previously imprisoned to appear on the surface.
Ah, Cudgel. The clearest case of why proper enunciation is important.
You guys have the best openings of any UA-cam channel, not just D&D channels.
Thank you!
Many underrated spell COULD be cool. But unless the DM houserule something special, by RAW the mechanic of those spell fail at accomplishing what the fantasy of the spell should do:
Find trap:
- Context: I stop my party from entering the hall, this is too easy guys, let me cast a spell to make sure nothing fishy is happening:
My personal fantasy: sweet I'll see a glowing aura where the trap are and I'll save my party
In reality: nope no trap in this hall (because the weak floor that will collapse is not a trap, it's a environmental hazard
Witch Bolt:
My personal fantasy: Cool I'll be a Dark Sith Lord from Star War shooting lightning from my finger tips, bringing my foe kneeling at my feets
In reality: Cool I'm a Dark Sith Lord shooting lightning from my finger, annoying the target making him move away from me then he can come back to punch me in the face
True Strike:
JUST SWING YOUR SWORD TWICE it will be better 99.9999% of the time (yes some rare corner case, might make True strike worth using, for that particular situation where:
- you cannot hide
- you need the next swing to count
- you can safely wait next turn and won't loose concentration
- you have no other concentration spell going
etc...
And its not only that that is a problem with Find Trap: It only detects that a trap is there within the range, it doesnt tell you where it is, it doesnt even tell you what exactly it is. It just tells you "Yeah, you might get hurt by this or that" not how it works or anything
@@FighterFrodo so true.
I feel like there's a trap in this room.
Find trap: yes...or the hall...
The enlarge reduce joke was funny as shit, loved the episode.
I choose my spell according to thematics, 'does it make sense for my spellcaster to have this spell' ... Like a storm sorcerer, I know fireball is a great spell, but it just didn't feel thematic for him. Lightning bolt did, just like cone of cold and Sleet storm, I admit, he also learned counterspell but that was to hinder our own pyromantic wizard from setting flame to the ship we where on .. AGAIN.
Youre fireball is a giant explosion of lightning and thunder. There you go. Its make believe, just flavor
@@dominicl5862 Depends on the DM, really. But in general I agree, to some extent.
Don't blame the pyro it is their responsibility to ignite everything that is flammable and create consequences for everyone.
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve seen Tasha’s Hideous Laughter be the reason an Arcane Tricker annihilated someone. Grease (as written) saved our party against a Stone Giant. And we’ve NEVER overlooked Mold Earth. Ray of Sickness is a battlefield changer, as the Poisoned condition can be BRUTAL.
I watched one player all but own an enemy Warlock just at level 3 because the villain couldn’t save against the Poisoned condition.
I was matched with Mage Hand
Thanks a lot for the advice guys
wrt Mold Earth
The Sorcerer in my game spent a day helping local farmers prepare their fields in spring
It resulted in an impromptu festival because farmers getting time off
Sounds like a neat idea for a Folk Hero spellcaster. They got their slight fame because they used their magic to till an entire village's fields. An especially ingratiating act, if the farmers couldn't sow their crops otherwise that year for whatever reason, so the spellcaster basically saved the community.
@Cpl Soletrain That is brilliant and you deserve accolades.
My biggest pet peeve with spells is people thinking you can just plane shift anywhere whenever you want. Normally you would only be able to go to the material plane plus a very small and limited selection of other planes. Gotta check those material components yo!
I found this out when my friend told me his party was stuck in the Shadowfell, but the DM didn't really check the material components of other spells, so it was just to keep their story on the rails he laid out
Overlooking an arcane focus as a starting gear option is startling...
"If you're playing a hunter.." me thinks Jim has been playing classic WoW maybe?
Hunter is a ranger subclass tho
@@minivergur u right. My shame is unbearable
The ranger should be called Hunter be real. It's only bot called hunter cuz 1e
Sleet Storm is underrated - I feel this spell gets overlooked all the time because it doesn't deal damage.
Third spell level also has so many iconic choices, it's hard for sleet storm to compete. You're really making some hard choices when you reach 5th level.
Sleet Storm is every wizard's NIGHTMARE!
Oh god if you're fighting a SQUAD OF WIZARDS, and you cast sleet storm in the middle of them, they may as well just go the fuck home. FUCK THAT, i'm not rolling concentration just because i'm STANDING. Visibility is shit in the storm, there's god damned ice everywhere, it's a bad time all around.
Then you throw a fucking fireball into it, nobody can counterspell unless they role a fucking perception check because it's HEAVILY obscured, if you fail your dex save when your turn starts you SLIP AND FALL ON YOUR ASS, and the save for the concentration is AGAINST YOUR SAVE DC! That can be a save as high as TWENTY. Every single time you start your turn. And this storm covers a FORTY FOOT RADIUS! Forty! That's bigger than MOST creature's walking speed AND that's not accounting for the fact of difficult terrain!
Sleet Storm is damn near overpowered. Everyone should get that spell. Even if you NEVER face mages somehow, there are SO many benefits and pretty much NO down sides for the caster.
DMs, you can use this too.
I've played alot of illusion based spell casters for quite a while, and know the pain and also joy that comes from such an undertaking very well. When I first started playing 5th edition I thought that illusions were alot worse than in previous editions, I was used to more powerful spells. However, in 5th edition, creatures get NO saving through to disbelieve an illusion. They have to either physically interact with the object OR spend an action to make an investigation check to determine if the illusion is real or not. Essentially this mean that they automatically believe the illusion is real. That being said, a dragon just appearing in a dungeon will raise some eyebrows, but if an illusion makes sense in the situation, there is rarely ever a reason a character NPC or PC should investigate immediately.
My DM made a pair of gnomes (under some appearance changing spell) throw down an "item" and a lich appeared in front of me. These gnomes were made to look like hybrid warforged/animal creatures, and they were even missing limbs. I immediatelly look at the Lich, go "oh, for real?" and step through it as it "gestured angrily"
He didnt get pissy or anything, we all laughed as my bard just stretched his arms and spun around inside the illusion to prove it was fake. I later grabbed the Deck of Illusions from the corpse. But I kinda felt bad for immediatelly disregarding the illusion. Was I a bit too hasty?
@@IHateNumbersOnNames definitely not. Makes total sense to me
i think its less of a spell problem and more of a spell slot problem you only get a max of 4 spell slots in a level which means to most people theres no reason to pick and use any spell thats not useful all the time
Imprisonment is one of my favorite spells but I throw special consideration for Psychic Scream. Nothing raises the stakes of a web of intrigue quite like 10 NPC's heads exploding at once.
"Dream" is only a must-have for PC casters if they know their DM is a fan of Beholders...
Rankerquat that’s mildly terrifying to think of 😂😂 because if the beholder dreams of itself....
Holy crap, that is an amazing strategy.
Somebody please explain this. i need to know, i just got Dream spell scroll
@@ziglaus Beholders warp reality with their dreams. In fact, the way Beholders reproduce is by dreaming of another Beholder in such detail that the dream comes to life.
do ya want weird extra dangerous beholder subspecies cuz thats how you get weird beholder subspecies.