caladoor nah man fireball is like having a nuke. A fireball stops someone with considerable force and political protection from attacking you. Imagine if Ned stalk had a wizard with one casting of fireball against Jamie when they fought in kings landing.
@@dittmar104 Jaime charged a dragon to protect Cersei. I'm pretty sure he'd charge Ned and his fireball wizard if it would curtail Ned's inCestigation of their activities. Whether Ned dies or Jaimie fries, fireball is still useless, the result is the same Stark/Lannister War just like Baelish and Varys(?) wanted.
In my current game, my kobold sorceror took "Mold Earth" because... he's a kobold. Not long into the campaign, the party decided to take a pirate ship UPRIVER, through shallow rapids, to escape a Giantish invasion fleet. The keel of the ship was about to be destroyed, the ship running aground, the party forced to retreat overland. So the kobold sorc wonders, "If I stand at the prow, can I use Move Earth on the mud and silt at the bottom, carving a trench where the keel can fit?" That, I decided, was gonna be a helluva thing. I made him roll Acrobatics checks during the skill challenge to smoothly match the movement and speed of the ship. He gets high roll after high roll. He starts going into, basically, an Earthbending dance, casting in one smooth motion after another. When the ship is changing direction, he sees it and adjusts the angle. Afterward, there is a 5' wide trench wending its way up the riverbed. The deeper, calmer part of the river lies ahead, and they have a coastal pirate vessel sailing upriver into the heart of Droaam. It was a helluva thing.
Great story. I actually love that spell. Used it to make graves, make a pit to camp in a windy wasteland, made combat obscurement and barricades. Pretty good stuff. I still want to change the direction of a stream or river once.
My favorite underrated spell is probably "Speak With Animals" They payoff isn't always _That_ great, but it's fun to see the spark in a DM's eyes when they ask theirself "hmm what _does_ the villain's horse think of him?" or "why _is_ the bear attacking the party?"
As a DM, I would be glad for the ooportunity to get to roleplay animals. It's absurd and fun, and a really cool way to get some information to the players.
With spell selection, I like to build towards a theme. A Storm Sorcerer who takes spells that control wind and do lightning, thunder, and cold damage. An Undying Warlock that leans _hard_ on a vampirism theme with spells like Spider Climb, Gaseous Form, Charm Person, Polymorph, and, yes, Vampiric Touch. A Necromancer who works as an undertaker, who has a squad of skeletons carry caskets, casts Gentle Repose to keep the deceased from being animated and Arcane Lock to seal their casket, and buries it in moments with Mold Earth. Whether the spells are stellar is irrelevant. The point is being on-brand.
100% This is how I prefer to play. I consider my background when I'm a starting level character. "Why do I know this spell?" is a good question. The only wizard I played that started with more than 1 offensive spell was from a military background.
Exactly. My thunder/teleport themed bard and my acid/poison themed wizard sacrifice a bit of *DAMAGE* but playing them is amazing and comes naturally due to themes.
100%. Many say fire>cold damage. I say Warhammer Ice Maiden ftw. Plus if my niece wants to play Elsa who am I to be douche and tell her it's unoptimized?
@@CaptainDCap I play a GOO warlock and havent used EB yet :P But its more of a rp character. I have a tentacle staff (reskinned shillelagh from Tome) that he uses.
@@WaffleRaven Nobody's telling you you can't have fun playing any type of character. Doesn't take away the fact that warlock is objectively worse without EB. To be honest, the entire class is a mess.
@@CaptainDCap I agree with you on that Warlock is a little messed up I wouldn't call it cancer or a broken mess, but with how it works I don't think EB is what makes the class viable or holds the warlock together, it's just a favourable crutch over other attack cantrips because the class can invest resources into it to make it stronger than the other options. personally from my point of view after playing a warlock and running a campaign with a warlock and some talking with the Player/DM about the class usual end up with reworking the invocations with either affecting a different attack cantrip or being more universally applied for variety, the other solution is give the warlock more chances to use spells, the solutions I got to see and use in the games I've played was instead of ending up with 4 slots by 17th level you end up with 8 slots, just look at when you level and when you get slots and add additional slots half way between when the class actually gets them, the other solution was have your 4 total spell slots by the time you start getting mystic Arcanum your slots are 1st level - 1 slot, 3rd level - 2 slots, 6th level - 3 slots, 9th level - 4 slots, you get out of the "I cast Eldritch blast" territory much quicker you have more options to do stuff and you still don't compete spell slot wise with other classes. but yeah, EB is kinda just an average cantrip that a warlock can empower and customise but I don't think it shuts down other cantrip choices, or is the reason anyone should pick warlock, the class has plenty more to offer in so many other ways than a 4d10 damage, with 4 chances to miss cantrip.
@@CaptainDCap They aren't objectively worse. They can actually function extremely well without it despite the perception and skewed reasoning people use in favor of EB. There are builds that can function entirely without EB to the level of EB if not better. The easiest and most common one can actually still be ranged if you wish and overall uses less invocations than an EB heavy build and can do more damage than EB does when built right as well as being filled out with all the vital stuff to reach a potential full potency at a lower level. This is true for a couple of different Pact of the Blade Builds and associated invocations/feats. People also falsely equate the way it attacks to be better. Which it actually isn't. The evocations improve it But that's only when you ignore certain things about other cantrips and why you might use them and extra properties most other cantrips start with already. Then you realize that your actually having to use a class function to empower it as a choice which actually bothers some people and they think certain class features should apply to all cantrips and not just EB (primarily the charisma modifier adding damage to all of them instead). It gets even worse when you realize that to actually make it better you have to use some questionable tactics about applying those class effects for some cheese effects to attempt to make it better. There is also the fact that there are sage advices out there that people latch onto religiously that are bent to purposely work in favor of EB despite the fact that there are other sage advices put out that would work against certain effects being used the way they are for EB on any other spell like EB (Scorching Ray and it's like only being able to apply it's stat modifier to one ray but EB gets to apply it to all of it's rays despite the fact that the two spells function the same except for how they scale their attacks and the number that they start out with. Which could be attributed solely to the fact that Scorching ray is a level 2 spell and EB a cantrip but this also applies to any other class features and stuff modifying how the ray works where they can't be used on multiple rays for other spells by the older rulings but they can be used on multiple rays for EB for some EB cheese.
A large part of this problem is the fact that the number of spells known for a lot of classes are pretty low. It's a lot more managable if you are playing wizard/ priest/ druid but all the other classes have to make some pretty hard choices.
That's why I usually pick the most optimal spells. It's about resources. Even for a Wizard. Not every campaign offers enough scrolls, gold or time to scribe spells into one's spellbook. So, one had to prioritize. However, I believe it's how it's supposed to be.
Yeah, I agree, there has to be a choice that's made. I'm sure most of us learned pretty young that games become a lot less fun when you turn on the god mode cheats ^_^ And it's not like it's all black and white, there is some room for choice and customisation even when you are picking some of the more optimal spells aswell. It just all comes down to how your playgroup handles or homebrews them. But that's also why I think it's kind of pointless to argue against a system like Treantmonk's spell rating system (whom i'm admidditly a big fan of) like WEB DM did in the video, because that's where you completely ignore the fact that all his video's operate on a purely RAW-basis. Because that's the most standard baseline everyone who plays this game can get to. He also clearly states that if your group chooses to handle things diffrent then what's wtitten in the books then that's completely fine, and has a ton of solid homebrew ideas himself, but there is always use in knowing what spells function the best in the game and which might need some homebrewing.
@@bacchus8081 Web DM explicitly complimented Chris and acknowledged the nuance of his discussions. They called out the people who read the rankings and spout them as law, especially without the nuance people like Treant
Ways that my wizard used Mold Earth, making it his signature spell: 1. Uproot a tree to make it fall on someone 2. Uproot a stretch of forest over the course of several minutes for the lumber 3. Sweep the floor of a tavern 4. While preparing for a town to be sieged, create a chokepoint just beyond the gate 5. Prepare the Mold Earth action for when a captain's horse would plant its feet on the ground 6. Move the dirt from beneath someone chasing him creating a -5ft gap followed by a +5ft mound 7. Tunnel under the winds of a vortex 8. Bury the BBEG's teleportation circle 9. Uproot a stretch of forest so we can take our cart into undeveloped lands 10. Wedge a door shut
@@expressionamidstcacophony390 Yeah I feel like a lot of people are thinking you can just dig up any terrain you want. Most terrain would be unneffected by Mold earth since its compact and hard. Loose earth would be like a recently filled in grave or a landslide. MAYBE the very topmost layer of soil could be considered loose earth, but anything more than an inch or two down would become hard. I certainly have no idea how you could interprete the spell to being able to uproot a tree since the dirt you excavate has no force too it and just travels along the ground.
In 3.5, grease specifically noted any solid surface, the ground, or an item, so its understandable people will want to use it that way if they're coming out of 3.5 into 5e
On the subject of Grease's exact wording: that's why (some) spells get low ratings. If your DM is gonna let you do a bunch of things with it that the spell doesn't actually say you can do, then of course it's better. But you can't rate assuming DM leniency, because that will vary from DM to DM. You have to go by what the spell actually says you can do.
I once DM'd a party that never figured out the wizard's 'Summon Banana Peels' spell was just Grease because they were so stuck on 'grease = oil' in their heads. It helped that I was explicit the bananas evaporated after the spell's duration ended or left the effected area, clearly marking them as magic bananas.
@Colin Deal Several spells are also under rated because they don't have direct affects on enemies or they don't deal damage, or certain types of damage in certain instances. So they are discounted because that idea that doing damage measures a big part of a spells worth. That's broken down somewhat in the last couple of years but it's still a very big problem. Grease falls under this because it affects an area but it's not guaranteed to affect an enemy and it doesn't do damage. But it can potentially restrict or affect things like enemy movement or positioning when you do use it since it's more of a low level area control spell rather than a direct damage spell.
I think one reason players tend to not take these underrated spells is because bards, warlocks, and sorcerers (and to some extent wizards) don't have the flexibility that clerics and druids do. Clerics and druids can choose their spells daily, but your warlock is stuck with their same spells until the next time they level up. Because of this, these casters that can't quickly change their spells will choose the spells they know will work and are effective in many situations, which most people relate to combat. The warlock WILL take hex because it's always good in combat, even if other first level spells are more interesting.
Yeah I agree, and I find it strange that these classes get the ability to change spells Willy nilly. I understand it from a fluff standpoint but from a balancing standpoint, these classes are already drastically considered the most op classes. And I don't see why a sorcerer can't change their spells after a long rest, it's strange considering their magic is for the most part a manifestation of their will. Warlocks are also essentially a cleric but they don't worship their patron like a cleric does their deity but makes a pact/sketchy deal with them, everything else is for the most part the same.
One game I'm playing, I'm a warlock who's day job is archaeology. They're an academic who accidentally fell into a pact with their patron. So as a level 6 Warlock, the only spells they have which do damage are Eldritch Blast and Armour of Agathys. The rest are all things like Detect Magic, Identify, Magic Circle, Dispel Magic, Major Image, Levitate. Cantrips are things like Guidance, Mending, Mold Earth. In the 4 session played with this character none of the spells has felt like a dud pick. Not all have been used (yet) but all were potentially applicable depending on what plans we went with as a party. I'm also roleplaying that my character doesn't get to choose their invocations, either; their patron does. My patron being a muse of history and knowledge, all my invocations are related to the uncovering and discovering of things; Devil's Sight (delve into the dark), Eldritch Sight (find hidden magicks), and Eyes of the Rune Keeper (scribe lost knowledge). No Agonizing Blast, no Hexes.
As a DM, I homebrew any spell or cantrip which is almost forced upon a class as being automatically assigned at level 1 without using a known spell slot. So druids get Druidcraft, Wizards get Prestidigitation, Warlocks get Eldritch Blast and Hex, Bards get Vicious Mockery, Rangers get Hunter's Mark, etc.
@@charliescheirmann2926 in our campaign we allow sorcerers to change spells during down time, which helps with stagnation between level ups. Long rest was discussed but we felt they would need more time to play with their magic in order to know it.
Everyone always yells at me for taking the 'Friends' cantrip. They tell me it's useless because the target becomes hostile after it ends. What they failed to realize is you can use 'Disguise Self' to appear like anyone else, then use 'Friends' to: gather information, barter, intimate, lie, whatever you want. Then just get out before/when the spell ends and dispel your 'Disguise Self' spell. Now the target is hostile towards who you used to be, but can't find them. This is great when you want to create distractions by making NPCs hostile to one another by looking like one of them, then creating said scenario.
While I did not choose it as one of my free spells, I actively sought out "Enlarge/Reduce" to counter the most dangerous of D&D bosses... The Dreaded Lock/Door. I have also expressed interest to my DM about most of the spells you named in this video. Magic Mouth: Cast it on a stone and if my character needs to separate from the group for a number of days, it would then be triggered to say, "Meet me at..." and then a location. The specifics of days and location would vary upon story relevancy.
Oh man, talking about crashing the medieval economy with magic made me think of a cranky innkeeper talking trash to adventurers about "oh, you need a place to sleep now? What's the matter, can't cast your tiny hut tonight?"
Bruh I could made an entire campaign revolving around certain spells becoming impossible to cast, and how the party investigates to find the root cause of the problem.
Speaking of Jack Vance, the spell "Imprisonment" is almost word for word "The Spell of Forlorn Encystment." In one of The Dying Earth Books, the main character (I hesitate to call him the protagonist) messes up the spell and DOES INDEED cause a whole bunch of people previously imprisoned to appear on the surface.
Leivve it’s like car insurance. You hope to never have to use it but you are so glad you have it when you get into an accident (DM tries to TPK by a large fall).
I ended an adventure a session or two early with feather fall. DM had a temple quarantined under a magic barrier. We were going to have to fight our way through the surrounding forest and through the temple to a specific room. But we knew the guy that controlled the barrier, and the room had a hole in the roof. So we climbed on top of the barrier, dropped through it, then feather falled directly to our destination
But you will only use it if the DM decides to TPK your party. In which case he should already know you have Featherfall and should choose a different path to TPK.
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve seen Tasha’s Hideous Laughter be the reason an Arcane Tricker annihilated someone. Grease (as written) saved our party against a Stone Giant. And we’ve NEVER overlooked Mold Earth. Ray of Sickness is a battlefield changer, as the Poisoned condition can be BRUTAL. I watched one player all but own an enemy Warlock just at level 3 because the villain couldn’t save against the Poisoned condition.
I choose my spell according to thematics, 'does it make sense for my spellcaster to have this spell' ... Like a storm sorcerer, I know fireball is a great spell, but it just didn't feel thematic for him. Lightning bolt did, just like cone of cold and Sleet storm, I admit, he also learned counterspell but that was to hinder our own pyromantic wizard from setting flame to the ship we where on .. AGAIN.
My biggest pet peeve with spells is people thinking you can just plane shift anywhere whenever you want. Normally you would only be able to go to the material plane plus a very small and limited selection of other planes. Gotta check those material components yo!
I found this out when my friend told me his party was stuck in the Shadowfell, but the DM didn't really check the material components of other spells, so it was just to keep their story on the rails he laid out
30:30 When I was looking over how to fix the Ranger class in addition to the Revised Ranger in Unearthed Arcana, I put two effects into a level 2 feature I call "Hunter's Strike". First, Rangers learn Hunter's Mark or Zephyr strike, and this does not count against their known spells. Second, the damage die of both of these spells are increased up by one at Ranger levels 5, 11 and 17 (like cantrips). This makes them scale up and be closer to rogue sneak attack or paladin smite in damage. Lastly, as a major bonus to all of the paladin's smite spells and Zephyr Strike... they last for the full duration, even after landing a hit, but they only have their effect on one attack on their turn.
Imprisonment is one of my favorite spells but I throw special consideration for Psychic Scream. Nothing raises the stakes of a web of intrigue quite like 10 NPC's heads exploding at once.
I've played alot of illusion based spell casters for quite a while, and know the pain and also joy that comes from such an undertaking very well. When I first started playing 5th edition I thought that illusions were alot worse than in previous editions, I was used to more powerful spells. However, in 5th edition, creatures get NO saving through to disbelieve an illusion. They have to either physically interact with the object OR spend an action to make an investigation check to determine if the illusion is real or not. Essentially this mean that they automatically believe the illusion is real. That being said, a dragon just appearing in a dungeon will raise some eyebrows, but if an illusion makes sense in the situation, there is rarely ever a reason a character NPC or PC should investigate immediately.
My DM made a pair of gnomes (under some appearance changing spell) throw down an "item" and a lich appeared in front of me. These gnomes were made to look like hybrid warforged/animal creatures, and they were even missing limbs. I immediatelly look at the Lich, go "oh, for real?" and step through it as it "gestured angrily" He didnt get pissy or anything, we all laughed as my bard just stretched his arms and spun around inside the illusion to prove it was fake. I later grabbed the Deck of Illusions from the corpse. But I kinda felt bad for immediatelly disregarding the illusion. Was I a bit too hasty?
I absolutely love the combo of prestidigitation, control flames, shape water and mold earth. Not sure how wide or deep a mine shafts is, control flames doubles the brightness of a torch. Being chased by someone with a wagon down a dirty road? Mold earth some five feet wide and deep pot holes in the road. In the middle of the ocean and spot pirates, use shape water to make five foot cubed icebergs.
Mold Earth allows you to excavate loose earth though. Regular terrain isnt loose soil, its hard and compact. And a traveled road MOST certainly isnt loose, thats about as hard and compact as it gets.
@@ziglaus Beholders warp reality with their dreams. In fact, the way Beholders reproduce is by dreaming of another Beholder in such detail that the dream comes to life.
wrt Mold Earth The Sorcerer in my game spent a day helping local farmers prepare their fields in spring It resulted in an impromptu festival because farmers getting time off
Sounds like a neat idea for a Folk Hero spellcaster. They got their slight fame because they used their magic to till an entire village's fields. An especially ingratiating act, if the farmers couldn't sow their crops otherwise that year for whatever reason, so the spellcaster basically saved the community.
For warlocks I really like the idea that the DM makes all decisions about what spells they get, and while the character can petition their patron for certain spells (AKA the player can tell the DM what spells they want, and the DM will oblige most of the time), how much of what they want the character gets is determined by how pleased the patron is with their service. Seems like a good way to address the complaint y'all had in another episode about the source of a warlock's magic not having enough meaning.
This reminds me of my pacifist caster, I avoided damaging spells and fighting altogether but when push came to shove I use spells to drain stat scores (ray of enfeeblement and the like) to disable enemies rather than killing them. In the long run I think one merc I had defeated became obsessed with why I let them live....and started stalking my character....still not sure if that was a good move in the long run.
Third spell level also has so many iconic choices, it's hard for sleet storm to compete. You're really making some hard choices when you reach 5th level.
Sleet Storm is every wizard's NIGHTMARE! Oh god if you're fighting a SQUAD OF WIZARDS, and you cast sleet storm in the middle of them, they may as well just go the fuck home. FUCK THAT, i'm not rolling concentration just because i'm STANDING. Visibility is shit in the storm, there's god damned ice everywhere, it's a bad time all around. Then you throw a fucking fireball into it, nobody can counterspell unless they role a fucking perception check because it's HEAVILY obscured, if you fail your dex save when your turn starts you SLIP AND FALL ON YOUR ASS, and the save for the concentration is AGAINST YOUR SAVE DC! That can be a save as high as TWENTY. Every single time you start your turn. And this storm covers a FORTY FOOT RADIUS! Forty! That's bigger than MOST creature's walking speed AND that's not accounting for the fact of difficult terrain! Sleet Storm is damn near overpowered. Everyone should get that spell. Even if you NEVER face mages somehow, there are SO many benefits and pretty much NO down sides for the caster. DMs, you can use this too.
it may not be too far out of the box but ive found myself using lightning bolt just as much as fireball. i just think its neat. also i did take enlarge reduce and randomly decided "hey i want our fighter to be big so they can do more damage and cause its cool" and then randomly found out it prevented them from being swallowed by the monster they were fighting
Counterspell is one of those few spells in 5e where I will straight up raise an eybrow if a caster who has it in their spell list doesn't take it. That's how ridiculously strong it is. Like for example if you can just say "nope" when someone is casting a fireball at your party it's likely that you just prevented a tpk with a single reaction and it's just a third level spell. Now ofc if your DM never uses spellcasters and all their enemies just run at you to hit you then it's bit useless.
even then, you pay one one known spell to always have a countermeasure against ANY spell. If you are the only magic user ever, you are a god anyway. The moment that someone shows even a hint of magic like yours, you can completely shut it down. You are a partial antimagic zone.
@@yargolocus4853 only downside to having counterspell in campaigns with low enemy casters is taking up a spell known/prepared when you could have something else a majority of the time. As a wizard, having counterspell always taking up one of my 11-12 spells prepared and never casting it kinda sucks
In addition to that, I think there is a strange, meta approach to choosing spells for a lot of people. The world/setting/system of D&D is not one where every spellcaster wields unique magics and spells. It's one thing to roll Arcana to identify a spell as it is cast (because it's heat of the moment) - but overall if you have studied magic, is it really that hard to at least read about and roughly remember all the spells in D&D even if they are beyond your ability to actually use? If not, I'm glad there are healing spells as surely no one could ever become a doctor in this land. The point is - especially things like Counterspell are known among spellcasters and it's obvious to anyone with an INT score over 10 that it's very useful. Any character with a semblance of sanity who goes into danger, expecting enemy spellcasters, would learn it because they aren't suicidal and they (probably) like their friends/party. The same goes for spells like Fireball - we aren't the only ones in awe of how powerful and effective it is at what it does. If your character is smart, choosing effective spells IS roleplaying. Imagine going to war and one person in your unit decides to use a longbow instead of an assault rifle because he thinks it's cooler (has actually historically happened). Obviously, TTRPGs are games, but I think an appropriate reaction from others who are risking their lives with you is not unexpected? However many players treat it as power gamers not caring about roleplaying. It's also one of the reasons why games should be balanced - so that choices don't conflict like this.
Just don't get TPK'd by a Fireball, though? Either your DM is throwing too high level casters at your low level party or all the players in it just suck at the game.
@@CrashSable I mean when everyone fails there save and the dm roll 40 damage that's alot of damage even to a fifth lvl party. That could lead to a tpk if the parties been worn down a bit
I played in a one-shot that involved myconids and tortles working together. Late into the game, one of us figured out that the DM was running us through the original Super Mario Bros.
This problem is a symptom of the poverty of the D&D magic system. When spells always do the same thing, some of them clearly become more useful and thus optimal. Since D&D is a game and most people like succeeding, forgoing the best spells is not usually an option.
That's why I'm very much in favor of allowing cleverness with spells. Sure, Grease SAYS it makes grease on the ground, but a precise enough caster should be able to slick up a table, or a chair or something. Require an additional check if they want to target something specific, and make the DC higher if they're trying to grease someone's bow string or something of that sort. Don't just give it to them for free, otherwise you're going to say something you very much regret later. Like Knock can undo knots in ropes. Next thing you know Knock is the most overpowered spell in the game and you're just ruining the entire world by undoing all the knots. If you give them the opportunity to use the weird spells, people will think of very interesting things to do with those spells. Illusory script can be very handy in forging papers, and in theory you shouldn't have any issues creating a picture, maybe if you do a dex or intelligence check depending on the circumstance. Boom, instant tool to find someone you're searching for faster. I've seen loads of people use magic mouth as a portable alarm spell. There's lots of spells in the game where if you just give the players a bit more freedom, they'll actually use them more. Like a ring of silence that just casts the silence spell once a day, or a key that will cast arcane lock on any lock you touch it to, but only one lock at a time, maybe it has charges or some kind of other limit. Making magic items is a really good way to get players to pursue different spells, go on quests to collect specific ingredients, maybe befriend particular NPCs if said NPC has special access to a skill or resource that could perpetuate this. Don't give them unlimited magic items, make ALL of these rather expensive, but allow them to work towards such things.
@@haku8135 this. I've had the most fun when playing when as a player I'm allowed to do clever or obscure things with spells, or at least try. It kind of kills the benefit of playing a caster if you are hamstringed constantly by restrictive rulings, or even rulings that go expressly against the spell text, it kills any reason to pick even medium-popularity spells and leads to everyone playing the same way, which leads to bad games imo
Self fulfilling prophecy and waste of spell slots. To ready a spell you must cast it, thus consuming the spell slot for it, and then maintain concentration on it (which can be broken if you are struck for damage before the triggering effect). Since Tasha's Hideous Laughter requires concentration, you immediately drop your previous casting, the trigger is met (they stopped laughing), and you then immediately cast the spell again.
@@HeroGuy3 Yeah. Additionally, you can only hold a readied spell for one turn, then it is lost. Very edge case usage for readying any spell that isn't a cantrip due to the high potential cost.
@@JohnHegner If you don't finish casting THL the second time, why would it take up concentration? You don't have to focus on maintaining a spell that doesn't exist yet.
Many underrated spell COULD be cool. But unless the DM houserule something special, by RAW the mechanic of those spell fail at accomplishing what the fantasy of the spell should do: Find trap: - Context: I stop my party from entering the hall, this is too easy guys, let me cast a spell to make sure nothing fishy is happening: My personal fantasy: sweet I'll see a glowing aura where the trap are and I'll save my party In reality: nope no trap in this hall (because the weak floor that will collapse is not a trap, it's a environmental hazard Witch Bolt: My personal fantasy: Cool I'll be a Dark Sith Lord from Star War shooting lightning from my finger tips, bringing my foe kneeling at my feets In reality: Cool I'm a Dark Sith Lord shooting lightning from my finger, annoying the target making him move away from me then he can come back to punch me in the face True Strike: JUST SWING YOUR SWORD TWICE it will be better 99.9999% of the time (yes some rare corner case, might make True strike worth using, for that particular situation where: - you cannot hide - you need the next swing to count - you can safely wait next turn and won't loose concentration - you have no other concentration spell going etc...
And its not only that that is a problem with Find Trap: It only detects that a trap is there within the range, it doesnt tell you where it is, it doesnt even tell you what exactly it is. It just tells you "Yeah, you might get hurt by this or that" not how it works or anything
Magic Mouth, the spell that can solve almost any situation. pick up a rock and just scream into it. Make activation prerequisit after demand. Are you hunted in a case? Toss a rock behind you that screams when the pursuer passes it. The persuer will probably jump as reaction giving you a chanse to get away. If your hunted by guards, have stones prepared that shouts orders or false information ("company HALT", or "he went left!") With imagination it just opens up so many posibilities. P.S I want to make a character that spends a year or so just filling a wall with magic mouths that sings a thousand voice ensamble at midwinter or something like that. P.P.S A real mad genious casts Tashas Hideous Laughter on herself after evoking her plan.
I really like the idea of a wizard literally building their own wizard's tower. All you really need is Mold Earth, Wall of Stone and time. Sure, the wall of stone spell specifies that the shapes have to be simple but the tower would be structually sound and functional.
Too bad you'll never have a good foundation. Mold Earth only moves loose earth, and Wall of Stone needs to touch stone, so unless you're stumbling across a perfectly good basement by itself you're just going to make a tower that falls over after a few years.
When the caster is using a spell in an interesting way often time the dm asks them for an arcana check or a knowledge that corresponds to the kind of casting they do. Nature for druids religion for clerics etc.
My kobold bard took zero damaging spells. He's adventuring so that he can create a story to please a bored Ancient Gold Dragon that his clan worships. He knows minor illusion (to recreate things he's seen to draw them better) and uses Prestidigitation (as an eraser for paints and inks.) So far at level 3 he has Find Familiar, Healing Word, Feather Fall, Sleep, Bless, and Invisibility. Buffs the party and can help here and there with getting people up or saving them from a fall. Bless on his party members since he doesn't take part in combat other than the odd rock from his sling.
"Do complex things with their illusions" Cue my Kobold Sorcerrer: Sootscale The Smartest one! Master of Illusions and flame, scorcher of villages and burninator of dumb kobold chieftain who said Sootscale was useless. Who fights using minor illusion to make a 5 by 5 foot crate, hide inside of the illusion and casts fireballs that cannot be counterspelled due to enemies being unable to see him cast spells
Brilliant. I try to play my Kenku Artificer Artillerist this way. Like we had a standoff and this guy was being threatening, so I had my dude hold the action of using Mage Hand to basically yeet this guy's rapier away from him if he ever reached for it. According to the DM, it was one of the most creative uses of Mage Hand he'd seen.
@@TheJarric no due to the nature of the spell. if you are unaffected by it, it is translucent. I would assume the caster would know the illusion is not real, but that does bring up the question that does the caster have t make a save or check against his own DC as per RAW?
Jim and Pruitt you guys have guided my transition from novice to avid player to DM, I love your videos and the intros remind me of my dad, never change much love
One thing you have to remember, many spells have changed over the years between editions! I have been playing since AD&D 1E, and confuse different editions of some spells! A lot of the underrated are better learned by scroll or trade versus the spells you learn as you level up. Back in AD&D, illusions spells were great but now they are a lot weaker. I played a lot of Gnome Illusionists in the 20+ years of playing AD&D.
I don't even know why Mold Earth is underrated; it's, like, my favorite cantrip and is ideal for any sort of prankster-y or dubiously aligned character, or anyone who just wants a way to dig underground for a hide-out or treasure-hunting.
My party's favourite spells for cantrips are: firebolt and minor illusion. First level: mage armour, magic missile, longstrider and thunderwave. Second Level: Invisibility and scorching ray.
I spent about two weeks upon reaching level 3 trying to decide what my arcane trickster's third magic spell should be. Finally I landed on the alternative text for Illusory Script and found that I could target someone to get their signature and seal on some innocuous exchange and then pass off the note to other characters for my nefarious gains. Things like having some guard sign and seal a paper acknowledging receipt of some supplies while the alternative message is for the release of my comrades and to everyone except that one guard it appears that way. Until you get into a major location where every document is scrutinized with detect magic you're golden but for your backwater fort you should be able to get away with a lot.
The problem with modifying spells, such as Grease, is that before long you'll have a long list of modified spells and good luck with that. That's how campaigns die; too many house rules.
One of the most underrated spells has gotta be Legend Lore. It’s the spell that really allows a DM to just talk about their world to their players about they (the players) stuff they care about. If a player plans on using this spell, they may want to let the DM know ahead of time just so they don’t get caught off guard
part of the issue is there's some spells that are statistically too good to pass up like shield, absorb elements, counterspell, and a couple of others.
Like the Cleric and Guidance and Resistance IMO. Cantrips that just make rolls better. You could technically abuse the shit out of both at every change you get. A d4 ain't nothing
@@wabschall yeah. I find it funny WotC says stuff like, "don't make any must take spells when homebrewing them" when they've got like 7 before 2nd level lol
@@williamweide2956 I could live with it if it's just fireball or lightning bolt because they are that iconic, but shield/absorb elements being that good for first level spells makes them must takes. Just too good in any combat situation for the cost of them
i think its less of a spell problem and more of a spell slot problem you only get a max of 4 spell slots in a level which means to most people theres no reason to pick and use any spell thats not useful all the time
I love the back and forth between these two. I have a problem personally my DMs do tend to go combat and exploration heavy with very minimal role playing. Is there a way I as a player can encourage more role playing. Is it literally as easy as saying “I want to go do this thing” and having the party go along with that.
The best suggestion I can give is to tell your dm, "Hey, I want to do more roleplaying, I'd like to have meaningful interactions with npc's outside of shopping, and I'd like to have time where our characters can interact with each other, where we as players can roleplay together." but outside of that it's effectively up to your dm as to whether or not you can roleplay with npc's, and up to the other players if you can roleplay with them. You can provide every opportunity for your character to start chatting with other people. The only way for people to know what you're wanting and thinking is to tell them. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that jazz.
Fireball is definitely one of my favorite spells, but that’s not even for raw strength. My favorite spell, though, is Chaos Bolt easily. Good damage, exclusive to my favorite class, fun mechanics, just generally great. I also love charm spells like Suggestion, Command, and Charm Person just because it’s simply fun to use
Hey I do admit that a lot of players use damage based spells a lot in games, although I once tried to break the mold of the norm once by playing a warlock who had no physical spells that do damage. it was so fun using spells such as mage hand and unseen servant to steal goods from a bandit camp and there weapons before my party set off the alarm as I snuck off into the shadows unharmed, made a great game of DND, but in the end of it all I was outclassed by the damage dealing powerhouse paladin and the buffs given to him by the bard.
Choosing a spell depends on the experience of the DM and the player. If they are new they tend to look at the game in a "simpler" dungeon crawler way (usually). As they get more experience the players and the DM will start to add roleplay and other non-combat spells become more powerful. For example even the sleep spell in 5e requires game knowledge to work, while fireball/shield/mage armour are simpler to use effectively making the player feel powerful. This is important to make every player feel relevant. If the party barbarian just dealt 40dmg in 1 round and the mage wastes a spell slot and fails charm person it feels pretty bad.
Enthrall is such a good spell that it seams like no one uses, you can lock down a dangerous enemy or distract someone for so long with it if you need to.
The Evocation school of magic has more spells, over all the casting classes, than almost all of the schools of magic. The 3 schools with the fewest number of spells are Divination, Necromancy, and Illusion. It's so bad that you usually can't have those kinds of spells as the bulk of the spells your character knows when they choose to specialize in those schools of magic. Underrated spells? Try underrated schools of magic. I get it, D&D started as a set of mods for existing wargames at the time, it's why combat-oriented spells have be so preferential in each edition, so much so that their bulk is greater than basically all the other schools of magic, but I think its time to try and even out the total spells each school has to make things more versatile and interesting, and ultimately fun. Taking the schools of Illusion, Necromancy, and Divination and searching for their spells combined nets you the same number of pages you'll get searching for Evocation spells by itself on D&D Beyond (I know, I've done it a few times for verification). When the 3 shortest spell lists for schools of magic are almost as much as the largest spell list then its time to stop making more of that school of magic until things are a bit more even. I tried starting a discussion on that on D&D Beyond's forums, here: www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/wizard/35333-why-do-the-spells-show-more-preference-for-certain Also, because you mentioned an "underwater campaign", I am working on a "drowned world" type setting, pretty much everywhere you look it's basically an endless sea around everywhere (the only patches of dry land are these islands being thrown around in the ocean currents within mystic bubbles)
I am watching to see if "Calm Emotions" is mentioned. It is very situational but can be very clutch when needed. I take it on every cleric I play. I have ended large threats by suppressing charmed and frightened conditions.
Currently I am playing a duet campaign with my gf and I decided to play a wizard who only uses conjuration spells and it's been super fun. He's a pacifist who just buff's his allies and I can't wait to get ahold of proper summoning. It's been fun using different spells I don't normally use
Assuming you can manage the multitasking, I imagine you'd have a great deal of fun with 3.x/Pathfinder's conjuration wizards- my last one seldom made an attack himself, but had summoned creatures support his allies while he used CC magic.
Thank you so much! You gave me a wonderful idea for my home game! One of my players is a wild sorc who has worn out his powers by forcing out wild surges during a large scale battle (over 300 fighters, Candlekeep was under attack by an Illithid mind controlled army). He's currently looking for another wild sorc to find how to get his powers back. I'm going to start having him roll a d20 every now and then. If he rolls like 17-20, i'll give him a few spells to use, but they'll be rolled for randomly by me ahead of time. This is going to be fun!
I think one of the big fallacies of 5E is that spells a lot of times just do 1 thing. They do damage, or they do a specific effect. And homebrewing is sometimes looked down on. So you have your grease example, or in general you don't have as many spells which maybe do less damage but have a really useful side effect. I feel like 5E dumbed things down to where you basically have damage spells, or things which do non-damaging things for the most part.
That's actually not true. There are a number of spells that actually do multiple things. But people forget about those extra effects for the most damage they can do. Look at several of the cantrips for example. Firebolt burns things which is great for combining with oil flasks or setting off signals. Chill touch reduces healing. Frost bolt reduces movement. And there are others but you tend to see people take only a couple. Or consider certain non-damage cantrips as must have's when for the most part they are convenience spells. You can find things at other levels but one that comes heavily to mind for me that I personally like to take that I see others ignore is Ice Storm. It does Aoe Damage plus an area control affect of making an area harder to cross by requiring checks. Force Cage is another higher level spell that does multiple things. yes it can do damage but it's also a strong spell for removing enemies from the battlefield that you can't banish or the like within certain size restrictions. And you can find a bunch more.
As a player I love that spell. People are less likely to steal from you if they think your stuff isn't magical and your carrying around fancy props or showy heirloom items that aren't worth nearly as much and probably aren't very good for using in actual battle.
@@Quandry1 One of the players in my current game picked up a fancy sword in a crypt while the party's spell caster had Detect Magic running. He just wanted a sword, and figured 'why not?'. No one realised it was magical until it started glowing in the presence of undead. Up till that point they'd been considering just selling it down the road. The looks of confusion and shock on my player's faces has kept me warm on cold nights ever since.
Shape water is completely underrated! I love using that spell. I played a Warlock that focused mostly on cantrips such as utility spells. I managed to break a DMs campaign simply on that alone as in his words were that his campaign is very "realistic".
Infestation as your main damaging cantrip to keep in theme with the trash wizard aesthetic? Damn right Infestation as your main damaging cantrip. Killed a vampire with that shit. Nearly killed him by "throwing the book at him" but he counterspelled my catapult and as a result got killed in a much more embarassing way.
@@ashmit8268 As far as I recall it couldn't reach it's resting place in time so it died. It was basically under compulsion by a Lich to invade this town so it was way far away from it's home.
The really cool way to fix this through world building is that everyone who is familiar with magic will know about these most "op" spells. Thus fire resistance becomes the most common, people hunting spellcasters will carry with themselves something to break invisibility etc.
This makes a lot of sense. If you look at medieval history, there is a *lot* of designing armour to protect against highly specific types of weapon that became popular at certain points. And many weapon innovations were specific counter measures to weapons or tactics. If we can do that with mundane things, you bet we're going to at least try to do it with spells. In world-building, we really have to remember that while we're looking at the world from the perspective of people in a totally different reality, the people in the world are looking at it from a local and relatively extremely expert perspective.
Something I always tell new players is that they don't need to optimize their characters. D&D's default difficulty is balanced in a way that doesn't assume optimized characters. So for that reason, they should choose whichever options which seem fun to play. Of course for some people, having the most powerful options is what is most fun for them; that's great, too.
Man I tell you I've been trying to get out of the Eldritch Blast + Hex box with my Warlock but every time I try it ends up a disaster. Phantasmal Force burned one of my two spell slots to do a D6 of damage once to one guy & then the enemy saw through the illusion on Round two. I've literally never seen any enemy fail their save against Toll the Dead, I cast it four times in a session (Once on a wolf for god's sake) & my target saved all four times. I tried Hold Person on a dude & got "Well turns out that's a DOPPLEGANGER so it is a MONSTROSITY so the spell fizzles." I pretty much always end up just shrugging & trying to think of more inventive ways to describe casting EB.
Mending is an amazing cantrip. I just want to take it , mage hand, minor illusion, and prestidigitation. And then I'm out of cantrips and dont have an attack cantrip and i have to ditch one
@@shadowgear7032 I solved the 'lack of attack cantrip' problem by carrying a crossbow. My debate is always between Minor Illusion, Mage Hand, and either Light or Dancing Lights.
I take a lot of crap for taking and defending witchbolt. For making Warlocks without EB and for taking Poison Spray because of people's perceptions and things they've read in "guides" about how things have to be done to the point they can't see another way or picture anything in ways they can't perceive as optimal.
What I've learned over time watching DnD discussion videos is that it seems like most tables and many players are just the fucking worst and ruin it for everyone else for a myriad of reasons; normally for self-fellating and ego stroking reasons or because they're playing a co-op game as if it was competitive. I'm so glad I've been fortunate enough for my tables to all be enjoyable and full of people who understand the spirit of the game. Only person that's even close is we have a semi-power gamer but I'm thankful for that because he's DM often and I like the challenge he tries to give us (i.e. the fight wasn't good enough if one of us didn't almost die or had to make a death save). If you can't find a good group I can't recommend playing the game, you're wasting your time and suffering toxicity to not have fun in a game.
I feel like politics has turned into "shoot the bastard and cover it up later" enough in real life that fireball is not a useless spell in a game about intrigue, but it certainly can only be taken by a much higher level character than in a more traditional D&D game.
I have a party rn which consists of a rogue, a wizard, a Bard, a ranger and a fighter. Their hobby between dungeons is pulling heists. They have mostly non damaging spells and I love seeing what they do with them!
Our DM allows a pretty loose interpretation of lesser used spells when we choose to cast them, simply because it lends more flavor to encounters. Sometimes it works against us...
Enhance Ability is so much better than Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, etc! you don't need to have 5 or 6 spells anymore, you have just one, which fits all!
Ratings are generally how often will this spell be the silver bullet to overcome the challenge at hand? Any spell can be the right spell some times, the higher rated ones are more useful more often. Also, some spells like grease have changed a lot over the editions, it used to be applicable to weapons, and I think it used to be flammable as well. it certainly used to be a lot more OP in previous editions.
Wizards in 3.5 were infamous for having a spell to solve every situation. Concentration and a genrally weaker spells mean that mentality isn't the same in 5e.
@@skyblade7438 There are certainly fewer tools in the toolbox, and not so many unbelievably powerful/useful spells. but the same mentality can still apply. some spells are more useful in more circumstances than others. all game/setting/dm dependent of course ymmv
I consider a homebrew in which bards, clerics, druids, paladin, ranger, sorcerers and warlocks can not choose their spells, but either roll them or get those that fit their patron/god/origin. Wizards would get a random spellbook at first level but then can prepare as they see fit. I wonder how that would shake things up. Perhaps testing the water with a oneshoot that uses that rule.
You've done a video on thieve's guilds and evil organizations, any chance you guys could do a video on other guilds and good/neutral organizations? I'm specifically looking for information and inspiration on building a magic academy.
My wizard stole the spellbook of one of her teachers and ran off with it. Every level she would reread the pages to try and make sense of them and every level she would learn how to cast two of them. This gave her a very utility centric spell list because they were spells a teacher would know in case one of the students had an accident that lead to the teacher needing to cast a spell to get them out. This lead my wizard to trying to figure out how to use jump to kill goblins since she didn't know scorching ray.
Thanks for including Mold Earth. I've been running a researched version of the spell that allowed my wizard to use ice instead of dirt in the Frostmaiden campaign. The fun never stops. Until you foul up your initiative, get frostrayed by a yeti and fumble your deathsave twice.
I would think that if they didn't want the spell Grease to be flammable, they'd state that it's a non-flammable, slick fluid. Implying that the name is a metaphor and not an explicit description. Also, while based on 3rd ed, the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games allow the Grease spell to be ignited with Fireball, I think it's supposed to do that.
In the constant train of you guys publishing videos about my current D&D journey, I'm going to be playing a wizard for the first time this Sunday. Keep up those divinations! Also, I cannot possibly express how useful I found enhance ability with my cleric, from the first time I got access to it, all the way through having level 5 spells to cast.
"I'll take random spells" says the mage who dies at level one because he doesn't have mage armor. I wish the same spells wouldn't always be picked but there are too many low level ones that seem tied to the balance of the game.
@@anthonynorman7545 It depends. Let's weight those 3AC against Kobolds and say your wizard has a dex of 14. Without mage armor, 4 out of 7 attacks hit you. With mage armor, it's 3 out of 7. It's nice, but not nearly good enough to be essential - and frankly, casting mage armor and firing cantrips each round is really boring to me. I'd rather have my wizard hide and use dancing lights and minor illusions to make the enemy waste their actions or use spells that don't actively attack anyone to keep my position hidden.
@@AlexBermannThat's a 14% reduction, which is a huge deal in tier 1 where a hit can be death. Yes, the importance of your personal boredom. How could I forget to factor that into the cost-benefit analysis? That assumes you're frequently able to hide and your DM is receptive to illusion spells and that enemies will attack a non-combatant.
@@anthonynorman7545 This sarcasm is uncalled for. Anyhow, if you want to assume that GM has a more adversial relationship with the players, then those 3AC won‘t save you anyway. It wouldn‘t be unreasonable to include 3 CR1 combat encounters in an adventuring day for a level 1 party. Enter the bugbear - a CR1 encounter. The bugbear has a +6 in Stealth and if they attack you in the first round of combat, they do 1d6+9 damage - enough to take you down. And the attack has advantage. Bugbears even are smart enough to kill the mage first. If you want to minimalize risk, start as a paladin and multiclass into wizard at level 2. wear plate armor and a shield. Be a variant human, set your 14 in strength and take heavy armor master. Now, you have an armor class of 20 and 4 damage reduction against most weapons. Also, this grants access to shield master which gives +2 to Reflex saves and the same effect as evasion. Oh, and you have 4 additional hit points. Mage armor is a good spell. However, there is no „must take“ option as optimizing your character is only secondary to playing the character you actually want to play - and I‘d rather play a wizard who was really fun to play and felt unique for two sessions and died in the third than being bored for 20 levels.
"Fire ball is completely useless in a game about court intrigue and backstabbing" sounds like some prity bold talk from someone within fireball range
"Fighters and Barbarians are useless in court intrigue campaigns"
Talking a lot of shit for a guy within *crusading* distance
@@kaseybennett7415 Hope you've got a high insight score or you're just going to end up sacking Byzantium for the benefit of the Venetians.
caladoor nah man fireball is like having a nuke. A fireball stops someone with considerable force and political protection from attacking you. Imagine if Ned stalk had a wizard with one casting of fireball against Jamie when they fought in kings landing.
@@dittmar104 Jaime charged a dragon to protect Cersei. I'm pretty sure he'd charge Ned and his fireball wizard if it would curtail Ned's inCestigation of their activities.
Whether Ned dies or Jaimie fries, fireball is still useless, the result is the same Stark/Lannister War just like Baelish and Varys(?) wanted.
Gunboat diplomacy and M.A.D scenarios based on fireball could be interesting though...
In my current game, my kobold sorceror took "Mold Earth" because... he's a kobold.
Not long into the campaign, the party decided to take a pirate ship UPRIVER, through shallow rapids, to escape a Giantish invasion fleet.
The keel of the ship was about to be destroyed, the ship running aground, the party forced to retreat overland.
So the kobold sorc wonders, "If I stand at the prow, can I use Move Earth on the mud and silt at the bottom, carving a trench where the keel can fit?"
That, I decided, was gonna be a helluva thing. I made him roll Acrobatics checks during the skill challenge to smoothly match the movement and speed of the ship.
He gets high roll after high roll. He starts going into, basically, an Earthbending dance, casting in one smooth motion after another. When the ship is changing direction, he sees it and adjusts the angle.
Afterward, there is a 5' wide trench wending its way up the riverbed. The deeper, calmer part of the river lies ahead, and they have a coastal pirate vessel sailing upriver into the heart of Droaam.
It was a helluva thing.
Great story. I actually love that spell. Used it to make graves, make a pit to camp in a windy wasteland, made combat obscurement and barricades. Pretty good stuff. I still want to change the direction of a stream or river once.
"Lonely Magic Mouth" works on so many levels
Jacob Trost I think I found my new Grindr headline lol.
I have uses for this as well lol
My favorite underrated spell is probably "Speak With Animals"
They payoff isn't always _That_ great, but it's fun to see the spark in a DM's eyes when they ask theirself "hmm what _does_ the villain's horse think of him?" or "why _is_ the bear attacking the party?"
Bribe the squirrles for info
As a DM, I would be glad for the ooportunity to get to roleplay animals. It's absurd and fun, and a really cool way to get some information to the players.
"What does the fox say!?"
It's all fun and games until your the DM who is expected to give every Animal the Party meets a name and personality.
My dm decided all our horses are communists and make our druid cry.
With spell selection, I like to build towards a theme. A Storm Sorcerer who takes spells that control wind and do lightning, thunder, and cold damage. An Undying Warlock that leans _hard_ on a vampirism theme with spells like Spider Climb, Gaseous Form, Charm Person, Polymorph, and, yes, Vampiric Touch. A Necromancer who works as an undertaker, who has a squad of skeletons carry caskets, casts Gentle Repose to keep the deceased from being animated and Arcane Lock to seal their casket, and buries it in moments with Mold Earth.
Whether the spells are stellar is irrelevant. The point is being on-brand.
Bluecho4 you’ve got the right idea
100% This is how I prefer to play. I consider my background when I'm a starting level character. "Why do I know this spell?" is a good question. The only wizard I played that started with more than 1 offensive spell was from a military background.
Exactly. My thunder/teleport themed bard and my acid/poison themed wizard sacrifice a bit of *DAMAGE* but playing them is amazing and comes naturally due to themes.
100%. Many say fire>cold damage. I say Warhammer Ice Maiden ftw. Plus if my niece wants to play Elsa who am I to be douche and tell her it's unoptimized?
@@JayfroC this is actually a good idea on many levels. If only because you are eligible to use your Unarmored Defence for AC in wild shape.
To be fair, mentioning Eldritch Blast as one of the best spells is unfair. It's a class feature hidden as a cantrip.
It's a whole class. The only reason warlock is halfway viable is EB. (Yeah warlock is cancer)
@@CaptainDCap I play a GOO warlock and havent used EB yet :P But its more of a rp character. I have a tentacle staff (reskinned shillelagh from Tome) that he uses.
@@WaffleRaven Nobody's telling you you can't have fun playing any type of character. Doesn't take away the fact that warlock is objectively worse without EB.
To be honest, the entire class is a mess.
@@CaptainDCap I agree with you on that Warlock is a little messed up I wouldn't call it cancer or a broken mess, but with how it works I don't think EB is what makes the class viable or holds the warlock together, it's just a favourable crutch over other attack cantrips because the class can invest resources into it to make it stronger than the other options.
personally from my point of view after playing a warlock and running a campaign with a warlock and some talking with the Player/DM about the class usual end up with reworking the invocations with either affecting a different attack cantrip or being more universally applied for variety, the other solution is give the warlock more chances to use spells, the solutions I got to see and use in the games I've played was instead of ending up with 4 slots by 17th level you end up with 8 slots, just look at when you level and when you get slots and add additional slots half way between when the class actually gets them, the other solution was have your 4 total spell slots by the time you start getting mystic Arcanum your slots are 1st level - 1 slot, 3rd level - 2 slots, 6th level - 3 slots, 9th level - 4 slots, you get out of the "I cast Eldritch blast" territory much quicker you have more options to do stuff and you still don't compete spell slot wise with other classes.
but yeah, EB is kinda just an average cantrip that a warlock can empower and customise but I don't think it shuts down other cantrip choices, or is the reason anyone should pick warlock, the class has plenty more to offer in so many other ways than a 4d10 damage, with 4 chances to miss cantrip.
@@CaptainDCap They aren't objectively worse. They can actually function extremely well without it despite the perception and skewed reasoning people use in favor of EB. There are builds that can function entirely without EB to the level of EB if not better. The easiest and most common one can actually still be ranged if you wish and overall uses less invocations than an EB heavy build and can do more damage than EB does when built right as well as being filled out with all the vital stuff to reach a potential full potency at a lower level. This is true for a couple of different Pact of the Blade Builds and associated invocations/feats.
People also falsely equate the way it attacks to be better. Which it actually isn't. The evocations improve it But that's only when you ignore certain things about other cantrips and why you might use them and extra properties most other cantrips start with already. Then you realize that your actually having to use a class function to empower it as a choice which actually bothers some people and they think certain class features should apply to all cantrips and not just EB (primarily the charisma modifier adding damage to all of them instead). It gets even worse when you realize that to actually make it better you have to use some questionable tactics about applying those class effects for some cheese effects to attempt to make it better.
There is also the fact that there are sage advices out there that people latch onto religiously that are bent to purposely work in favor of EB despite the fact that there are other sage advices put out that would work against certain effects being used the way they are for EB on any other spell like EB (Scorching Ray and it's like only being able to apply it's stat modifier to one ray but EB gets to apply it to all of it's rays despite the fact that the two spells function the same except for how they scale their attacks and the number that they start out with. Which could be attributed solely to the fact that Scorching ray is a level 2 spell and EB a cantrip but this also applies to any other class features and stuff modifying how the ray works where they can't be used on multiple rays for other spells by the older rulings but they can be used on multiple rays for EB for some EB cheese.
A large part of this problem is the fact that the number of spells known for a lot of classes are pretty low. It's a lot more managable if you are playing wizard/ priest/ druid but all the other classes have to make some pretty hard choices.
giving "domain" spells is the best fix for this problem, instead of just an expanded list of spells.
@@averymalone2164 I give my players their expanded spell list as "domain" spells so they can have more layers.
That's why I usually pick the most optimal spells. It's about resources. Even for a Wizard. Not every campaign offers enough scrolls, gold or time to scribe spells into one's spellbook. So, one had to prioritize.
However, I believe it's how it's supposed to be.
Yeah, I agree, there has to be a choice that's made. I'm sure most of us learned pretty young that games become a lot less fun when you turn on the god mode cheats ^_^ And it's not like it's all black and white, there is some room for choice and customisation even when you are picking some of the more optimal spells aswell. It just all comes down to how your playgroup handles or homebrews them.
But that's also why I think it's kind of pointless to argue against a system like Treantmonk's spell rating system (whom i'm admidditly a big fan of) like WEB DM did in the video, because that's where you completely ignore the fact that all his video's operate on a purely RAW-basis. Because that's the most standard baseline everyone who plays this game can get to. He also clearly states that if your group chooses to handle things diffrent then what's wtitten in the books then that's completely fine, and has a ton of solid homebrew ideas himself, but there is always use in knowing what spells function the best in the game and which might need some homebrewing.
@@bacchus8081 Web DM explicitly complimented Chris and acknowledged the nuance of his discussions. They called out the people who read the rankings and spout them as law, especially without the nuance people like Treant
Ways that my wizard used Mold Earth, making it his signature spell:
1. Uproot a tree to make it fall on someone
2. Uproot a stretch of forest over the course of several minutes for the lumber
3. Sweep the floor of a tavern
4. While preparing for a town to be sieged, create a chokepoint just beyond the gate
5. Prepare the Mold Earth action for when a captain's horse would plant its feet on the ground
6. Move the dirt from beneath someone chasing him creating a -5ft gap followed by a +5ft mound
7. Tunnel under the winds of a vortex
8. Bury the BBEG's teleportation circle
9. Uproot a stretch of forest so we can take our cart into undeveloped lands
10. Wedge a door shut
You convinced me.
Remember, it works on stone too
It's cool, but it's heavily dependent on your DM. The best effects all require LOOSE earth, and your DM gets to decide what that means.
@@expressionamidstcacophony390 Yeah I feel like a lot of people are thinking you can just dig up any terrain you want.
Most terrain would be unneffected by Mold earth since its compact and hard. Loose earth would be like a recently filled in grave or a landslide. MAYBE the very topmost layer of soil could be considered loose earth, but anything more than an inch or two down would become hard.
I certainly have no idea how you could interprete the spell to being able to uproot a tree since the dirt you excavate has no force too it and just travels along the ground.
@@TheGoondas87 50% of the above ideas are impossible, but the other 50% are excellent
In 3.5, grease specifically noted any solid surface, the ground, or an item, so its understandable people will want to use it that way if they're coming out of 3.5 into 5e
On the subject of Grease's exact wording: that's why (some) spells get low ratings. If your DM is gonna let you do a bunch of things with it that the spell doesn't actually say you can do, then of course it's better. But you can't rate assuming DM leniency, because that will vary from DM to DM. You have to go by what the spell actually says you can do.
I once DM'd a party that never figured out the wizard's 'Summon Banana Peels' spell was just Grease because they were so stuck on 'grease = oil' in their heads. It helped that I was explicit the bananas evaporated after the spell's duration ended or left the effected area, clearly marking them as magic bananas.
Grease is a good spell raw though, I'm surprised it is considered underrated.
@@Eversca Yeah, I'm not actually sure I've seen anyone call Grease *bad*, but it was the one they brought up early on.
@Colin Deal Several spells are also under rated because they don't have direct affects on enemies or they don't deal damage, or certain types of damage in certain instances. So they are discounted because that idea that doing damage measures a big part of a spells worth. That's broken down somewhat in the last couple of years but it's still a very big problem. Grease falls under this because it affects an area but it's not guaranteed to affect an enemy and it doesn't do damage. But it can potentially restrict or affect things like enemy movement or positioning when you do use it since it's more of a low level area control spell rather than a direct damage spell.
@@Vespuchian I like that bit of flavoring for the spell.
I think one reason players tend to not take these underrated spells is because bards, warlocks, and sorcerers (and to some extent wizards) don't have the flexibility that clerics and druids do. Clerics and druids can choose their spells daily, but your warlock is stuck with their same spells until the next time they level up. Because of this, these casters that can't quickly change their spells will choose the spells they know will work and are effective in many situations, which most people relate to combat. The warlock WILL take hex because it's always good in combat, even if other first level spells are more interesting.
Agree. Except I didn't take Hex because concentration is dumb and I'd rather use it on other spells.
Yeah I agree, and I find it strange that these classes get the ability to change spells Willy nilly. I understand it from a fluff standpoint but from a balancing standpoint, these classes are already drastically considered the most op classes. And I don't see why a sorcerer can't change their spells after a long rest, it's strange considering their magic is for the most part a manifestation of their will. Warlocks are also essentially a cleric but they don't worship their patron like a cleric does their deity but makes a pact/sketchy deal with them, everything else is for the most part the same.
One game I'm playing, I'm a warlock who's day job is archaeology. They're an academic who accidentally fell into a pact with their patron. So as a level 6 Warlock, the only spells they have which do damage are Eldritch Blast and Armour of Agathys. The rest are all things like Detect Magic, Identify, Magic Circle, Dispel Magic, Major Image, Levitate. Cantrips are things like Guidance, Mending, Mold Earth.
In the 4 session played with this character none of the spells has felt like a dud pick. Not all have been used (yet) but all were potentially applicable depending on what plans we went with as a party. I'm also roleplaying that my character doesn't get to choose their invocations, either; their patron does. My patron being a muse of history and knowledge, all my invocations are related to the uncovering and discovering of things; Devil's Sight (delve into the dark), Eldritch Sight (find hidden magicks), and Eyes of the Rune Keeper (scribe lost knowledge). No Agonizing Blast, no Hexes.
As a DM, I homebrew any spell or cantrip which is almost forced upon a class as being automatically assigned at level 1 without using a known spell slot.
So druids get Druidcraft, Wizards get Prestidigitation, Warlocks get Eldritch Blast and Hex, Bards get Vicious Mockery, Rangers get Hunter's Mark, etc.
@@charliescheirmann2926 in our campaign we allow sorcerers to change spells during down time, which helps with stagnation between level ups. Long rest was discussed but we felt they would need more time to play with their magic in order to know it.
Everyone always yells at me for taking the 'Friends' cantrip. They tell me it's useless because the target becomes hostile after it ends. What they failed to realize is you can use 'Disguise Self' to appear like anyone else, then use 'Friends' to: gather information, barter, intimate, lie, whatever you want. Then just get out before/when the spell ends and dispel your 'Disguise Self' spell. Now the target is hostile towards who you used to be, but can't find them. This is great when you want to create distractions by making NPCs hostile to one another by looking like one of them, then creating said scenario.
While I did not choose it as one of my free spells, I actively sought out "Enlarge/Reduce" to counter the most dangerous of D&D bosses...
The Dreaded Lock/Door.
I have also expressed interest to my DM about most of the spells you named in this video.
Magic Mouth: Cast it on a stone and if my character needs to separate from the group for a number of days, it would then be triggered to say, "Meet me at..." and then a location. The specifics of days and location would vary upon story relevancy.
You guys have the best openings of any UA-cam channel, not just D&D channels.
Thank you!
Oh man, talking about crashing the medieval economy with magic made me think of a cranky innkeeper talking trash to adventurers about "oh, you need a place to sleep now? What's the matter, can't cast your tiny hut tonight?"
Bruh I could made an entire campaign revolving around certain spells becoming impossible to cast, and how the party investigates to find the root cause of the problem.
Eric I'm going to have my NPC tavern owners and stuff sass the party like this now.
Speaking of Jack Vance, the spell "Imprisonment" is almost word for word "The Spell of Forlorn Encystment." In one of The Dying Earth Books, the main character (I hesitate to call him the protagonist) messes up the spell and DOES INDEED cause a whole bunch of people previously imprisoned to appear on the surface.
Ah, Cudgel. The clearest case of why proper enunciation is important.
Feather Fall is a must have spell for me, I might never have to actually use it, but you'll be glad you had it the one time you did need it.
Leivve it’s like car insurance. You hope to never have to use it but you are so glad you have it when you get into an accident (DM tries to TPK by a large fall).
@@bagamer13 I am of the belief that if you give yourself a spell you can't think of how to use it, having the spell will teach you how to use it.
I ended an adventure a session or two early with feather fall. DM had a temple quarantined under a magic barrier. We were going to have to fight our way through the surrounding forest and through the temple to a specific room. But we knew the guy that controlled the barrier, and the room had a hole in the roof. So we climbed on top of the barrier, dropped through it, then feather falled directly to our destination
Like that chick in AvP says: "I'd rather have one and not need it, than need it and not have one"
But you will only use it if the DM decides to TPK your party. In which case he should already know you have Featherfall and should choose a different path to TPK.
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve seen Tasha’s Hideous Laughter be the reason an Arcane Tricker annihilated someone. Grease (as written) saved our party against a Stone Giant. And we’ve NEVER overlooked Mold Earth. Ray of Sickness is a battlefield changer, as the Poisoned condition can be BRUTAL.
I watched one player all but own an enemy Warlock just at level 3 because the villain couldn’t save against the Poisoned condition.
I was matched with Mage Hand
Thanks a lot for the advice guys
I choose my spell according to thematics, 'does it make sense for my spellcaster to have this spell' ... Like a storm sorcerer, I know fireball is a great spell, but it just didn't feel thematic for him. Lightning bolt did, just like cone of cold and Sleet storm, I admit, he also learned counterspell but that was to hinder our own pyromantic wizard from setting flame to the ship we where on .. AGAIN.
Youre fireball is a giant explosion of lightning and thunder. There you go. Its make believe, just flavor
@@dominicl5862 Depends on the DM, really. But in general I agree, to some extent.
Don't blame the pyro it is their responsibility to ignite everything that is flammable and create consequences for everyone.
My biggest pet peeve with spells is people thinking you can just plane shift anywhere whenever you want. Normally you would only be able to go to the material plane plus a very small and limited selection of other planes. Gotta check those material components yo!
I found this out when my friend told me his party was stuck in the Shadowfell, but the DM didn't really check the material components of other spells, so it was just to keep their story on the rails he laid out
Overlooking an arcane focus as a starting gear option is startling...
30:30 When I was looking over how to fix the Ranger class in addition to the Revised Ranger in Unearthed Arcana, I put two effects into a level 2 feature I call "Hunter's Strike". First, Rangers learn Hunter's Mark or Zephyr strike, and this does not count against their known spells.
Second, the damage die of both of these spells are increased up by one at Ranger levels 5, 11 and 17 (like cantrips). This makes them scale up and be closer to rogue sneak attack or paladin smite in damage. Lastly, as a major bonus to all of the paladin's smite spells and Zephyr Strike... they last for the full duration, even after landing a hit, but they only have their effect on one attack on their turn.
Imprisonment is one of my favorite spells but I throw special consideration for Psychic Scream. Nothing raises the stakes of a web of intrigue quite like 10 NPC's heads exploding at once.
I've played alot of illusion based spell casters for quite a while, and know the pain and also joy that comes from such an undertaking very well. When I first started playing 5th edition I thought that illusions were alot worse than in previous editions, I was used to more powerful spells. However, in 5th edition, creatures get NO saving through to disbelieve an illusion. They have to either physically interact with the object OR spend an action to make an investigation check to determine if the illusion is real or not. Essentially this mean that they automatically believe the illusion is real. That being said, a dragon just appearing in a dungeon will raise some eyebrows, but if an illusion makes sense in the situation, there is rarely ever a reason a character NPC or PC should investigate immediately.
My DM made a pair of gnomes (under some appearance changing spell) throw down an "item" and a lich appeared in front of me. These gnomes were made to look like hybrid warforged/animal creatures, and they were even missing limbs. I immediatelly look at the Lich, go "oh, for real?" and step through it as it "gestured angrily"
He didnt get pissy or anything, we all laughed as my bard just stretched his arms and spun around inside the illusion to prove it was fake. I later grabbed the Deck of Illusions from the corpse. But I kinda felt bad for immediatelly disregarding the illusion. Was I a bit too hasty?
@@IHateNumbersOnNames definitely not. Makes total sense to me
I absolutely love the combo of prestidigitation, control flames, shape water and mold earth.
Not sure how wide or deep a mine shafts is, control flames doubles the brightness of a torch.
Being chased by someone with a wagon down a dirty road?
Mold earth some five feet wide and deep pot holes in the road.
In the middle of the ocean and spot pirates, use shape water to make five foot cubed icebergs.
Mold Earth allows you to excavate loose earth though. Regular terrain isnt loose soil, its hard and compact. And a traveled road MOST certainly isnt loose, thats about as hard and compact as it gets.
"Dream" is only a must-have for PC casters if they know their DM is a fan of Beholders...
Rankerquat that’s mildly terrifying to think of 😂😂 because if the beholder dreams of itself....
Holy crap, that is an amazing strategy.
Somebody please explain this. i need to know, i just got Dream spell scroll
@@ziglaus Beholders warp reality with their dreams. In fact, the way Beholders reproduce is by dreaming of another Beholder in such detail that the dream comes to life.
do ya want weird extra dangerous beholder subspecies cuz thats how you get weird beholder subspecies.
wrt Mold Earth
The Sorcerer in my game spent a day helping local farmers prepare their fields in spring
It resulted in an impromptu festival because farmers getting time off
Sounds like a neat idea for a Folk Hero spellcaster. They got their slight fame because they used their magic to till an entire village's fields. An especially ingratiating act, if the farmers couldn't sow their crops otherwise that year for whatever reason, so the spellcaster basically saved the community.
@Cpl Soletrain That is brilliant and you deserve accolades.
For warlocks I really like the idea that the DM makes all decisions about what spells they get, and while the character can petition their patron for certain spells (AKA the player can tell the DM what spells they want, and the DM will oblige most of the time), how much of what they want the character gets is determined by how pleased the patron is with their service. Seems like a good way to address the complaint y'all had in another episode about the source of a warlock's magic not having enough meaning.
The enlarge reduce joke was funny as shit, loved the episode.
This reminds me of my pacifist caster, I avoided damaging spells and fighting altogether but when push came to shove I use spells to drain stat scores (ray of enfeeblement and the like) to disable enemies rather than killing them. In the long run I think one merc I had defeated became obsessed with why I let them live....and started stalking my character....still not sure if that was a good move in the long run.
Sleet Storm is underrated - I feel this spell gets overlooked all the time because it doesn't deal damage.
Third spell level also has so many iconic choices, it's hard for sleet storm to compete. You're really making some hard choices when you reach 5th level.
Sleet Storm is every wizard's NIGHTMARE!
Oh god if you're fighting a SQUAD OF WIZARDS, and you cast sleet storm in the middle of them, they may as well just go the fuck home. FUCK THAT, i'm not rolling concentration just because i'm STANDING. Visibility is shit in the storm, there's god damned ice everywhere, it's a bad time all around.
Then you throw a fucking fireball into it, nobody can counterspell unless they role a fucking perception check because it's HEAVILY obscured, if you fail your dex save when your turn starts you SLIP AND FALL ON YOUR ASS, and the save for the concentration is AGAINST YOUR SAVE DC! That can be a save as high as TWENTY. Every single time you start your turn. And this storm covers a FORTY FOOT RADIUS! Forty! That's bigger than MOST creature's walking speed AND that's not accounting for the fact of difficult terrain!
Sleet Storm is damn near overpowered. Everyone should get that spell. Even if you NEVER face mages somehow, there are SO many benefits and pretty much NO down sides for the caster.
DMs, you can use this too.
it may not be too far out of the box but ive found myself using lightning bolt just as much as fireball. i just think its neat. also i did take enlarge reduce and randomly decided "hey i want our fighter to be big so they can do more damage and cause its cool" and then randomly found out it prevented them from being swallowed by the monster they were fighting
Counterspell is one of those few spells in 5e where I will straight up raise an eybrow if a caster who has it in their spell list doesn't take it. That's how ridiculously strong it is. Like for example if you can just say "nope" when someone is casting a fireball at your party it's likely that you just prevented a tpk with a single reaction and it's just a third level spell.
Now ofc if your DM never uses spellcasters and all their enemies just run at you to hit you then it's bit useless.
even then, you pay one one known spell to always have a countermeasure against ANY spell. If you are the only magic user ever, you are a god anyway. The moment that someone shows even a hint of magic like yours, you can completely shut it down. You are a partial antimagic zone.
@@yargolocus4853 only downside to having counterspell in campaigns with low enemy casters is taking up a spell known/prepared when you could have something else a majority of the time. As a wizard, having counterspell always taking up one of my 11-12 spells prepared and never casting it kinda sucks
In addition to that, I think there is a strange, meta approach to choosing spells for a lot of people. The world/setting/system of D&D is not one where every spellcaster wields unique magics and spells. It's one thing to roll Arcana to identify a spell as it is cast (because it's heat of the moment) - but overall if you have studied magic, is it really that hard to at least read about and roughly remember all the spells in D&D even if they are beyond your ability to actually use? If not, I'm glad there are healing spells as surely no one could ever become a doctor in this land.
The point is - especially things like Counterspell are known among spellcasters and it's obvious to anyone with an INT score over 10 that it's very useful. Any character with a semblance of sanity who goes into danger, expecting enemy spellcasters, would learn it because they aren't suicidal and they (probably) like their friends/party. The same goes for spells like Fireball - we aren't the only ones in awe of how powerful and effective it is at what it does. If your character is smart, choosing effective spells IS roleplaying.
Imagine going to war and one person in your unit decides to use a longbow instead of an assault rifle because he thinks it's cooler (has actually historically happened). Obviously, TTRPGs are games, but I think an appropriate reaction from others who are risking their lives with you is not unexpected? However many players treat it as power gamers not caring about roleplaying. It's also one of the reasons why games should be balanced - so that choices don't conflict like this.
Just don't get TPK'd by a Fireball, though? Either your DM is throwing too high level casters at your low level party or all the players in it just suck at the game.
@@CrashSable I mean when everyone fails there save and the dm roll 40 damage that's alot of damage even to a fifth lvl party. That could lead to a tpk if the parties been worn down a bit
21:05 "Anything that's important to a player, should be important to a DM" Little nuggets just nonchalantly dropped.
What about one on under appreciated monsters? Myconids come to mind
^^^^THIS^^^^
I played in a one-shot that involved myconids and tortles working together. Late into the game, one of us figured out that the DM was running us through the original Super Mario Bros.
@@godsamongmen8003 thats awesome
I love Myconids
There are definitely monsters I don't remember because I don't use them or see them used
This problem is a symptom of the poverty of the D&D magic system. When spells always do the same thing, some of them clearly become more useful and thus optimal. Since D&D is a game and most people like succeeding, forgoing the best spells is not usually an option.
That's why I'm very much in favor of allowing cleverness with spells. Sure, Grease SAYS it makes grease on the ground, but a precise enough caster should be able to slick up a table, or a chair or something. Require an additional check if they want to target something specific, and make the DC higher if they're trying to grease someone's bow string or something of that sort. Don't just give it to them for free, otherwise you're going to say something you very much regret later. Like Knock can undo knots in ropes. Next thing you know Knock is the most overpowered spell in the game and you're just ruining the entire world by undoing all the knots.
If you give them the opportunity to use the weird spells, people will think of very interesting things to do with those spells. Illusory script can be very handy in forging papers, and in theory you shouldn't have any issues creating a picture, maybe if you do a dex or intelligence check depending on the circumstance. Boom, instant tool to find someone you're searching for faster. I've seen loads of people use magic mouth as a portable alarm spell.
There's lots of spells in the game where if you just give the players a bit more freedom, they'll actually use them more. Like a ring of silence that just casts the silence spell once a day, or a key that will cast arcane lock on any lock you touch it to, but only one lock at a time, maybe it has charges or some kind of other limit. Making magic items is a really good way to get players to pursue different spells, go on quests to collect specific ingredients, maybe befriend particular NPCs if said NPC has special access to a skill or resource that could perpetuate this. Don't give them unlimited magic items, make ALL of these rather expensive, but allow them to work towards such things.
@@haku8135 this. I've had the most fun when playing when as a player I'm allowed to do clever or obscure things with spells, or at least try. It kind of kills the benefit of playing a caster if you are hamstringed constantly by restrictive rulings, or even rulings that go expressly against the spell text, it kills any reason to pick even medium-popularity spells and leads to everyone playing the same way, which leads to bad games imo
Tasha's Hideous Laughter is great. My Bard made the habit of " I hold my action to cast THL if they stop laughing"
Self fulfilling prophecy and waste of spell slots.
To ready a spell you must cast it, thus consuming the spell slot for it, and then maintain concentration on it (which can be broken if you are struck for damage before the triggering effect).
Since Tasha's Hideous Laughter requires concentration, you immediately drop your previous casting, the trigger is met (they stopped laughing), and you then immediately cast the spell again.
Oh so that's why readying a spell consumes the spell slot
@@HeroGuy3 Yeah. Additionally, you can only hold a readied spell for one turn, then it is lost. Very edge case usage for readying any spell that isn't a cantrip due to the high potential cost.
@@JohnHegner If you don't finish casting THL the second time, why would it take up concentration? You don't have to focus on maintaining a spell that doesn't exist yet.
@@Klespyrian you focus on holding the magical energy to CAST it. It would also require Concentration to hold a Fireball.
Many underrated spell COULD be cool. But unless the DM houserule something special, by RAW the mechanic of those spell fail at accomplishing what the fantasy of the spell should do:
Find trap:
- Context: I stop my party from entering the hall, this is too easy guys, let me cast a spell to make sure nothing fishy is happening:
My personal fantasy: sweet I'll see a glowing aura where the trap are and I'll save my party
In reality: nope no trap in this hall (because the weak floor that will collapse is not a trap, it's a environmental hazard
Witch Bolt:
My personal fantasy: Cool I'll be a Dark Sith Lord from Star War shooting lightning from my finger tips, bringing my foe kneeling at my feets
In reality: Cool I'm a Dark Sith Lord shooting lightning from my finger, annoying the target making him move away from me then he can come back to punch me in the face
True Strike:
JUST SWING YOUR SWORD TWICE it will be better 99.9999% of the time (yes some rare corner case, might make True strike worth using, for that particular situation where:
- you cannot hide
- you need the next swing to count
- you can safely wait next turn and won't loose concentration
- you have no other concentration spell going
etc...
And its not only that that is a problem with Find Trap: It only detects that a trap is there within the range, it doesnt tell you where it is, it doesnt even tell you what exactly it is. It just tells you "Yeah, you might get hurt by this or that" not how it works or anything
@@FighterFrodo so true.
I feel like there's a trap in this room.
Find trap: yes...or the hall...
Such words of wisdom. I don’t really care what someone said online, I want to cast the spell anyway.
Magic Mouth, the spell that can solve almost any situation.
pick up a rock and just scream into it. Make activation prerequisit after demand. Are you hunted in a case? Toss a rock behind you that screams when the pursuer passes it. The persuer will probably jump as reaction giving you a chanse to get away.
If your hunted by guards, have stones prepared that shouts orders or false information ("company HALT", or "he went left!")
With imagination it just opens up so many posibilities.
P.S
I want to make a character that spends a year or so just filling a wall with magic mouths that sings a thousand voice ensamble at midwinter or something like that.
P.P.S
A real mad genious casts Tashas Hideous Laughter on herself after evoking her plan.
I really like the idea of a wizard literally building their own wizard's tower. All you really need is Mold Earth, Wall of Stone and time. Sure, the wall of stone spell specifies that the shapes have to be simple but the tower would be structually sound and functional.
concentration would disagree
@@orionar2461 if you maintain concentration for the entire spell duration, then the stone walls become permanent nonmagical stone.
Too bad you'll never have a good foundation. Mold Earth only moves loose earth, and Wall of Stone needs to touch stone, so unless you're stumbling across a perfectly good basement by itself you're just going to make a tower that falls over after a few years.
As someone who knows how buildings are constructed. No. Just No.
When the caster is using a spell in an interesting way often time the dm asks them for an arcana check or a knowledge that corresponds to the kind of casting they do. Nature for druids religion for clerics etc.
My kobold bard took zero damaging spells. He's adventuring so that he can create a story to please a bored Ancient Gold Dragon that his clan worships. He knows minor illusion (to recreate things he's seen to draw them better) and uses Prestidigitation (as an eraser for paints and inks.) So far at level 3 he has Find Familiar, Healing Word, Feather Fall, Sleep, Bless, and Invisibility. Buffs the party and can help here and there with getting people up or saving them from a fall. Bless on his party members since he doesn't take part in combat other than the odd rock from his sling.
Same here. No damaging except vicious mockery. It's fun and engaging. The only damaging spell I might take would be Heat Metal, but that is the line.
@@LazyVideosGAME Heat Metal?
You mean "Detect Piercings"
@@patheronaetherson2860 good lord! "Detect Piercings"! I'm terrified of someone who has gotten... bold with their piercing locations
"Do complex things with their illusions"
Cue my Kobold Sorcerrer: Sootscale The Smartest one! Master of Illusions and flame, scorcher of villages and burninator of dumb kobold chieftain who said Sootscale was useless.
Who fights using minor illusion to make a 5 by 5 foot crate, hide inside of the illusion and casts fireballs that cannot be counterspelled due to enemies being unable to see him cast spells
Brilliant. I try to play my Kenku Artificer Artillerist this way. Like we had a standoff and this guy was being threatening, so I had my dude hold the action of using Mage Hand to basically yeet this guy's rapier away from him if he ever reached for it. According to the DM, it was one of the most creative uses of Mage Hand he'd seen.
rogue/sorcerer with illusion, invisible assassin, or he's a mime who beats things with an invisible rapier
woudnt that make him blind too
@@TheJarric no due to the nature of the spell. if you are unaffected by it, it is translucent. I would assume the caster would know the illusion is not real, but that does bring up the question that does the caster have t make a save or check against his own DC as per RAW?
Something that I notice gets overlooked about Imprisonment is that it's one of the requirements for lichdom to trap souls in a phylactery.
Jim and Pruitt you guys have guided my transition from novice to avid player to DM, I love your videos and the intros remind me of my dad, never change much love
Thank you!
One thing you have to remember, many spells have changed over the years between editions! I have been playing since AD&D 1E, and confuse different editions of some spells! A lot of the underrated are better learned by scroll or trade versus the spells you learn as you level up.
Back in AD&D, illusions spells were great but now they are a lot weaker. I played a lot of Gnome Illusionists in the 20+ years of playing AD&D.
Scrolls make many of the underrated spells just fine. Something you keep in your pocket for that day when it actually does rain zombies.
I don't even know why Mold Earth is underrated; it's, like, my favorite cantrip and is ideal for any sort of prankster-y or dubiously aligned character, or anyone who just wants a way to dig underground for a hide-out or treasure-hunting.
Reminder: Grease in AD&D through 3.5E could be cast on an object, including things held by enemies.
yeah but sadly in 5e it aint good like that no more
"If you're playing a hunter.." me thinks Jim has been playing classic WoW maybe?
Hunter is a ranger subclass tho
@@minivergur u right. My shame is unbearable
The ranger should be called Hunter be real. It's only bot called hunter cuz 1e
DndDom is linked to Castr, but for Spellcasters who like control the combat. Linked to Order Domain Clerics.
My party's favourite spells for cantrips are: firebolt and minor illusion. First level: mage armour, magic missile, longstrider and thunderwave. Second Level: Invisibility and scorching ray.
I spent about two weeks upon reaching level 3 trying to decide what my arcane trickster's third magic spell should be. Finally I landed on the alternative text for Illusory Script and found that I could target someone to get their signature and seal on some innocuous exchange and then pass off the note to other characters for my nefarious gains. Things like having some guard sign and seal a paper acknowledging receipt of some supplies while the alternative message is for the release of my comrades and to everyone except that one guard it appears that way. Until you get into a major location where every document is scrutinized with detect magic you're golden but for your backwater fort you should be able to get away with a lot.
Web DM: *show extensive knowledge on D&D spells and magic in general*
Me, a Barbarian player: "What's a spell slot?"
It's that thing you can give those weak little mages when you get smashy.
(If you go unearthed arcana of course)
The problem with modifying spells, such as Grease, is that before long you'll have a long list of modified spells and good luck with that. That's how campaigns die; too many house rules.
One of the most underrated spells has gotta be Legend Lore. It’s the spell that really allows a DM to just talk about their world to their players about they (the players) stuff they care about. If a player plans on using this spell, they may want to let the DM know ahead of time just so they don’t get caught off guard
Makes side quests for magic items
Jim: "It doesn't matter what someone online says."
Preach Brother!!
part of the issue is there's some spells that are statistically too good to pass up like shield, absorb elements, counterspell, and a couple of others.
Like the Cleric and Guidance and Resistance IMO. Cantrips that just make rolls better. You could technically abuse the shit out of both at every change you get. A d4 ain't nothing
@@wabschall yeah. I find it funny WotC says stuff like, "don't make any must take spells when homebrewing them" when they've got like 7 before 2nd level lol
And they even admitted they made fireball op because it is "an iconic spell)
@@williamweide2956 I could live with it if it's just fireball or lightning bolt because they are that iconic, but shield/absorb elements being that good for first level spells makes them must takes. Just too good in any combat situation for the cost of them
i think its less of a spell problem and more of a spell slot problem you only get a max of 4 spell slots in a level which means to most people theres no reason to pick and use any spell thats not useful all the time
I love the back and forth between these two. I have a problem personally my DMs do tend to go combat and exploration heavy with very minimal role playing. Is there a way I as a player can encourage more role playing. Is it literally as easy as saying “I want to go do this thing” and having the party go along with that.
The best suggestion I can give is to tell your dm, "Hey, I want to do more roleplaying, I'd like to have meaningful interactions with npc's outside of shopping, and I'd like to have time where our characters can interact with each other, where we as players can roleplay together." but outside of that it's effectively up to your dm as to whether or not you can roleplay with npc's, and up to the other players if you can roleplay with them. You can provide every opportunity for your character to start chatting with other people.
The only way for people to know what you're wanting and thinking is to tell them. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that jazz.
Yep, what Jeremiah said.
Fireball is definitely one of my favorite spells, but that’s not even for raw strength. My favorite spell, though, is Chaos Bolt easily. Good damage, exclusive to my favorite class, fun mechanics, just generally great. I also love charm spells like Suggestion, Command, and Charm Person just because it’s simply fun to use
Hey I do admit that a lot of players use damage based spells a lot in games, although I once tried to break the mold of the norm once by playing a warlock who had no physical spells that do damage. it was so fun using spells such as mage hand and unseen servant to steal goods from a bandit camp and there weapons before my party set off the alarm as I snuck off into the shadows unharmed, made a great game of DND, but in the end of it all I was outclassed by the damage dealing powerhouse paladin and the buffs given to him by the bard.
Choosing a spell depends on the experience of the DM and the player. If they are new they tend to look at the game in a "simpler" dungeon crawler way (usually). As they get more experience the players and the DM will start to add roleplay and other non-combat spells become more powerful.
For example even the sleep spell in 5e requires game knowledge to work, while fireball/shield/mage armour are simpler to use effectively making the player feel powerful.
This is important to make every player feel relevant. If the party barbarian just dealt 40dmg in 1 round and the mage wastes a spell slot and fails charm person it feels pretty bad.
Enthrall is such a good spell that it seams like no one uses, you can lock down a dangerous enemy or distract someone for so long with it if you need to.
The Evocation school of magic has more spells, over all the casting classes, than almost all of the schools of magic. The 3 schools with the fewest number of spells are Divination, Necromancy, and Illusion. It's so bad that you usually can't have those kinds of spells as the bulk of the spells your character knows when they choose to specialize in those schools of magic. Underrated spells? Try underrated schools of magic. I get it, D&D started as a set of mods for existing wargames at the time, it's why combat-oriented spells have be so preferential in each edition, so much so that their bulk is greater than basically all the other schools of magic, but I think its time to try and even out the total spells each school has to make things more versatile and interesting, and ultimately fun. Taking the schools of Illusion, Necromancy, and Divination and searching for their spells combined nets you the same number of pages you'll get searching for Evocation spells by itself on D&D Beyond (I know, I've done it a few times for verification). When the 3 shortest spell lists for schools of magic are almost as much as the largest spell list then its time to stop making more of that school of magic until things are a bit more even.
I tried starting a discussion on that on D&D Beyond's forums, here: www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/wizard/35333-why-do-the-spells-show-more-preference-for-certain
Also, because you mentioned an "underwater campaign", I am working on a "drowned world" type setting, pretty much everywhere you look it's basically an endless sea around everywhere (the only patches of dry land are these islands being thrown around in the ocean currents within mystic bubbles)
I am watching to see if "Calm Emotions" is mentioned. It is very situational but can be very clutch when needed. I take it on every cleric I play. I have ended large threats by suppressing charmed and frightened conditions.
Currently I am playing a duet campaign with my gf and I decided to play a wizard who only uses conjuration spells and it's been super fun. He's a pacifist who just buff's his allies and I can't wait to get ahold of proper summoning. It's been fun using different spells I don't normally use
Assuming you can manage the multitasking, I imagine you'd have a great deal of fun with 3.x/Pathfinder's conjuration wizards- my last one seldom made an attack himself, but had summoned creatures support his allies while he used CC magic.
Thank you so much! You gave me a wonderful idea for my home game! One of my players is a wild sorc who has worn out his powers by forcing out wild surges during a large scale battle (over 300 fighters, Candlekeep was under attack by an Illithid mind controlled army). He's currently looking for another wild sorc to find how to get his powers back. I'm going to start having him roll a d20 every now and then. If he rolls like 17-20, i'll give him a few spells to use, but they'll be rolled for randomly by me ahead of time. This is going to be fun!
I think one of the big fallacies of 5E is that spells a lot of times just do 1 thing. They do damage, or they do a specific effect. And homebrewing is sometimes looked down on. So you have your grease example, or in general you don't have as many spells which maybe do less damage but have a really useful side effect. I feel like 5E dumbed things down to where you basically have damage spells, or things which do non-damaging things for the most part.
That's actually not true. There are a number of spells that actually do multiple things. But people forget about those extra effects for the most damage they can do. Look at several of the cantrips for example. Firebolt burns things which is great for combining with oil flasks or setting off signals. Chill touch reduces healing. Frost bolt reduces movement. And there are others but you tend to see people take only a couple. Or consider certain non-damage cantrips as must have's when for the most part they are convenience spells.
You can find things at other levels but one that comes heavily to mind for me that I personally like to take that I see others ignore is Ice Storm. It does Aoe Damage plus an area control affect of making an area harder to cross by requiring checks. Force Cage is another higher level spell that does multiple things. yes it can do damage but it's also a strong spell for removing enemies from the battlefield that you can't banish or the like within certain size restrictions. And you can find a bunch more.
I’m so glad there are others who value having spells simply because we want to have that spell, rather than just because they’re optimal.
As a DM, I like Nystul's Magic Aura. Lots of laughs to be had when the players don't realise they've just picked up a magic item.
As a player I love that spell. People are less likely to steal from you if they think your stuff isn't magical and your carrying around fancy props or showy heirloom items that aren't worth nearly as much and probably aren't very good for using in actual battle.
@@Quandry1 One of the players in my current game picked up a fancy sword in a crypt while the party's spell caster had Detect Magic running. He just wanted a sword, and figured 'why not?'. No one realised it was magical until it started glowing in the presence of undead. Up till that point they'd been considering just selling it down the road. The looks of confusion and shock on my player's faces has kept me warm on cold nights ever since.
@@JC_R8MEOW That look keeps my DM heart alive, I know it well.
Shape water is completely underrated! I love using that spell.
I played a Warlock that focused mostly on cantrips such as utility spells. I managed to break a DMs campaign simply on that alone as in his words were that his campaign is very "realistic".
Infestation as your main damaging cantrip to keep in theme with the trash wizard aesthetic? Damn right Infestation as your main damaging cantrip. Killed a vampire with that shit. Nearly killed him by "throwing the book at him" but he counterspelled my catapult and as a result got killed in a much more embarassing way.
How exactly did you kill a vampire that way? They have Misty Escape.
@@ashmit8268 As far as I recall it couldn't reach it's resting place in time so it died. It was basically under compulsion by a Lich to invade this town so it was way far away from it's home.
It was also a modified statblock (hence why it had spellcasting) so I don't know exactly how the DM was running it.
The really cool way to fix this through world building is that everyone who is familiar with magic will know about these most "op" spells. Thus fire resistance becomes the most common, people hunting spellcasters will carry with themselves something to break invisibility etc.
This makes a lot of sense.
If you look at medieval history, there is a *lot* of designing armour to protect against highly specific types of weapon that became popular at certain points. And many weapon innovations were specific counter measures to weapons or tactics.
If we can do that with mundane things, you bet we're going to at least try to do it with spells.
In world-building, we really have to remember that while we're looking at the world from the perspective of people in a totally different reality, the people in the world are looking at it from a local and relatively extremely expert perspective.
Something I always tell new players is that they don't need to optimize their characters. D&D's default difficulty is balanced in a way that doesn't assume optimized characters. So for that reason, they should choose whichever options which seem fun to play. Of course for some people, having the most powerful options is what is most fun for them; that's great, too.
"Witch bolt is bad"
Tell that to my divination wizard with a 20 in the bank casting it at 9th level
Lonely magic mouth eh?
Man I tell you I've been trying to get out of the Eldritch Blast + Hex box with my Warlock but every time I try it ends up a disaster. Phantasmal Force burned one of my two spell slots to do a D6 of damage once to one guy & then the enemy saw through the illusion on Round two. I've literally never seen any enemy fail their save against Toll the Dead, I cast it four times in a session (Once on a wolf for god's sake) & my target saved all four times. I tried Hold Person on a dude & got "Well turns out that's a DOPPLEGANGER so it is a MONSTROSITY so the spell fizzles." I pretty much always end up just shrugging & trying to think of more inventive ways to describe casting EB.
I got a lot of crap for taking Mending. I laughed and used it on everything broken.
Who laughed at you for taking Mending? I'm often cursing the lack of cantrip slots because there isn't a good reason to NOT have Mending.
Mending is an amazing cantrip. I just want to take it , mage hand, minor illusion, and prestidigitation. And then I'm out of cantrips and dont have an attack cantrip and i have to ditch one
@@shadowgear7032 I solved the 'lack of attack cantrip' problem by carrying a crossbow. My debate is always between Minor Illusion, Mage Hand, and either Light or Dancing Lights.
I take a lot of crap for taking and defending witchbolt. For making Warlocks without EB and for taking Poison Spray because of people's perceptions and things they've read in "guides" about how things have to be done to the point they can't see another way or picture anything in ways they can't perceive as optimal.
@@Vespuchian That's a solid choice early on, but once the damage cantrips start to scale that single crossbow attack becomes pretty inferior
What I've learned over time watching DnD discussion videos is that it seems like most tables and many players are just the fucking worst and ruin it for everyone else for a myriad of reasons; normally for self-fellating and ego stroking reasons or because they're playing a co-op game as if it was competitive. I'm so glad I've been fortunate enough for my tables to all be enjoyable and full of people who understand the spirit of the game. Only person that's even close is we have a semi-power gamer but I'm thankful for that because he's DM often and I like the challenge he tries to give us (i.e. the fight wasn't good enough if one of us didn't almost die or had to make a death save).
If you can't find a good group I can't recommend playing the game, you're wasting your time and suffering toxicity to not have fun in a game.
I feel like politics has turned into "shoot the bastard and cover it up later" enough in real life that fireball is not a useless spell in a game about intrigue, but it certainly can only be taken by a much higher level character than in a more traditional D&D game.
I think politicians in D&D are a lot less corrupt than ones IRL, considering they have clerics and paladins to fear.
I have a party rn which consists of a rogue, a wizard, a Bard, a ranger and a fighter. Their hobby between dungeons is pulling heists. They have mostly non damaging spells and I love seeing what they do with them!
Our DM allows a pretty loose interpretation of lesser used spells when we choose to cast them, simply because it lends more flavor to encounters. Sometimes it works against us...
Enhance Ability is so much better than Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, etc! you don't need to have 5 or 6 spells anymore, you have just one, which fits all!
Ratings are generally how often will this spell be the silver bullet to overcome the challenge at hand? Any spell can be the right spell some times, the higher rated ones are more useful more often. Also, some spells like grease have changed a lot over the editions, it used to be applicable to weapons, and I think it used to be flammable as well. it certainly used to be a lot more OP in previous editions.
Wizards in 3.5 were infamous for having a spell to solve every situation. Concentration and a genrally weaker spells mean that mentality isn't the same in 5e.
@@skyblade7438 There are certainly fewer tools in the toolbox, and not so many unbelievably powerful/useful spells. but the same mentality can still apply. some spells are more useful in more circumstances than others. all game/setting/dm dependent of course ymmv
13:00 I guess all that fat and grease comes from "The Fifth Elephant", buried deep underneath Uberwald.
Dee and Dee Dum is the third tweedle brother.
Thank you for the laugh.
:)
I consider a homebrew in which bards, clerics, druids, paladin, ranger, sorcerers and warlocks can not choose their spells, but either roll them or get those that fit their patron/god/origin. Wizards would get a random spellbook at first level but then can prepare as they see fit. I wonder how that would shake things up. Perhaps testing the water with a oneshoot that uses that rule.
You've done a video on thieve's guilds and evil organizations, any chance you guys could do a video on other guilds and good/neutral organizations? I'm specifically looking for information and inspiration on building a magic academy.
My wizard stole the spellbook of one of her teachers and ran off with it. Every level she would reread the pages to try and make sense of them and every level she would learn how to cast two of them. This gave her a very utility centric spell list because they were spells a teacher would know in case one of the students had an accident that lead to the teacher needing to cast a spell to get them out. This lead my wizard to trying to figure out how to use jump to kill goblins since she didn't know scorching ray.
To be fair most Dm's pick the same kind of spells that most the players do. The DM's got to mix it up too.
I really like the lack of ads. It really adds to my appreciation of your content.
Oooooh I would love to see a video on "The Showmanship of GMing"!
Thanks for including Mold Earth. I've been running a researched version of the spell that allowed my wizard to use ice instead of dirt in the Frostmaiden campaign. The fun never stops. Until you foul up your initiative, get frostrayed by a yeti and fumble your deathsave twice.
Something that i don't feel is used enough: Sequester. 7th level spell, perfect for a puzzle.
Perfect for cryogenically freezing a badass warrior in a tomb (DM's side of things)
I would think that if they didn't want the spell Grease to be flammable, they'd state that it's a non-flammable, slick fluid. Implying that the name is a metaphor and not an explicit description. Also, while based on 3rd ed, the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games allow the Grease spell to be ignited with Fireball, I think it's supposed to do that.
That imprisonments spell is straight out of Vance. I read dying earth on your guys recommendation and I got a real kick out of it
In the constant train of you guys publishing videos about my current D&D journey, I'm going to be playing a wizard for the first time this Sunday.
Keep up those divinations!
Also, I cannot possibly express how useful I found enhance ability with my cleric, from the first time I got access to it, all the way through having level 5 spells to cast.
"I'll take random spells" says the mage who dies at level one because he doesn't have mage armor. I wish the same spells wouldn't always be picked but there are too many low level ones that seem tied to the balance of the game.
My perspective on wizards, especially at low level, is that you have failed if you need AC. Also, mage armor doesn't increase AC by that much.
@@AlexBermann yes, with 2 spellslots a level 1 wizard should never get hit.
+3 AC isn't much?
@@anthonynorman7545 It depends. Let's weight those 3AC against Kobolds and say your wizard has a dex of 14.
Without mage armor, 4 out of 7 attacks hit you. With mage armor, it's 3 out of 7.
It's nice, but not nearly good enough to be essential - and frankly, casting mage armor and firing cantrips each round is really boring to me.
I'd rather have my wizard hide and use dancing lights and minor illusions to make the enemy waste their actions or use spells that don't actively attack anyone to keep my position hidden.
@@AlexBermannThat's a 14% reduction, which is a huge deal in tier 1 where a hit can be death.
Yes, the importance of your personal boredom. How could I forget to factor that into the cost-benefit analysis?
That assumes you're frequently able to hide and your DM is receptive to illusion spells and that enemies will attack a non-combatant.
@@anthonynorman7545 This sarcasm is uncalled for. Anyhow, if you want to assume that GM has a more adversial relationship with the players, then those 3AC won‘t save you anyway.
It wouldn‘t be unreasonable to include 3 CR1 combat encounters in an adventuring day for a level 1 party. Enter the bugbear - a CR1 encounter. The bugbear has a +6 in Stealth and if they attack you in the first round of combat, they do 1d6+9 damage - enough to take you down. And the attack has advantage. Bugbears even are smart enough to kill the mage first.
If you want to minimalize risk, start as a paladin and multiclass into wizard at level 2. wear plate armor and a shield. Be a variant human, set your 14 in strength and take heavy armor master. Now, you have an armor class of 20 and 4 damage reduction against most weapons. Also, this grants access to shield master which gives +2 to Reflex saves and the same effect as evasion. Oh, and you have 4 additional hit points.
Mage armor is a good spell. However, there is no „must take“ option as optimizing your character is only secondary to playing the character you actually want to play - and I‘d rather play a wizard who was really fun to play and felt unique for two sessions and died in the third than being bored for 20 levels.
If you have to stop a riot, it's probably better to use Calm Emotions than Fireball or Stinking Cloud.
Matters how big the riot is!