I do love the way this canto ends, with the economy and mystery of Pia's words and image of a gem. So interesting to know that Dante himself was in the battle in 1289 - thank you for mentioning it as it is not in the notes I have. (I've decided it is time for me to re-read " Rendezvous with Rama" and have ordered a copy. I was sad to hear that your opportunity to meet Sir Clarke was taken from you. I do remember my own sadness on hearing about his death - something about this engineer's writing was so very inspiring!)
What a gorgeous day when you recorded this. I have had a strange week and only got back to Dante on Sunday. I found myself wondering why is Virgil so grumpy here so I was glad you unpicked it a bit. I couldn't quite spot in my version where Dante offers to pray for Buonconte.
Virgil is grumpy also because he’s so out of his depth in Purgatorio, and he keeps making mistake after mistake, many more than in Inferno. Dante’s promise to pray for these souls, as a generous offer, comes as soon as he meets them (vv. 58 to 62). L.A. weather is hard to beat! It’s the reason why Hitchcock decided to move to L.A. with his wife.
I had no idea Dante saw battle. I just looked up Battle of Campaldino (just the Wiki page). According to the page, he was only 24 at the time. I really like this Canto, and the way it ends, as well. The language here really sets the tone for the rest of Purgatorio. It may just be the way I am reading it, with the translation I have, but there does seem to be a more mature sentiment, even when he is playing with words.
Hi Pae! So are you saying Dante the poet might have actually been growing and maturing himself while writing the DC? You know, I think I’ve always felt that in the back of my mind but never fully rationalized. I think you’re spot on. That would give the autobiographical element even more strength.
@@tomlabooks3263 That is what I had originally thought, and still lean in that direction. However, knowing the complexity of the DC, I also wouldn't be surprised if the change in tone may be a comment on how one matures in a religious setting. Dante, no longer being in hell, he is closer to a peace that comes with maturity in such a setting. It would sure be nice to have an interview with him to find these things out haha😅
@@attention5638 😂 Arthur C. Clarke would answer, with his trademark smirk: “Nothing’s impossible.” Who knows what A.I. will bring us... and maybe sooner than what we think.
Is it also summer in Purgatory, Tom?!? Love the shirt, and the discussion, as always. I have always found this section the most powerful part of the Comedy, and your videos are helping me appreciate new aspects to it. Best, Jack
Haha well let’s say that spring of 1300 was a warm spring. Thanks for your comment and yes! Let’s make booktube more colorful with our cheerful shirts 😂
Have to say the lack of woman's voice jars to my modern ear (although of course I understand why..). I simply love Virgil scolding Dante at the start ..makes him very real to me , sounds very authentic ...and I love the wisdom behind his words ...written for the distraction of social media !! And the scene at the end of the storm was very powerful ...I was out on the moors yesterday at it was so like that when the clouds came down ..
This is an interesting follow-up from the indolent in the previous canto. Here everything is sped up, which seems to compound the threat of distraction--in fact the souls stop singing to say "ohhh" when they are distracted by Dante's shadow. I'm even more struck that Dante and Virgil keep moving while the souls are pleading for them to be remembered when he gets back to the world. I can see that Dante's forward progress is supposed to indicate steadfastness in contrast with the distraction of the souls, but emotionally it felt very cold of him not to stop and listen intently. I can't help but conjure an image of Dante and Virgil similar to the campy 1960's TV Batman with Batman and Robin climbing up a building with various people poking their heads out of windows to speak to them. Still, it's beautiful to be in a place where there's more kindness and thoughtfulness.
Hahah 😂 Someone has to draw that for us, it would be priceless art. Yes I also love the sound effect here - the choir song crashing into a “ohhh” like an ocean wave.
Good day, Tom. Repentance and forgiveness. Makes me think of a Borges story about Abel meeting with Cain and having forgotten that he'd been murdered by him. I completely missed that not since Francesca had another feminine voice spoken to Dante. And both died by violence. Francesca, for me, is desire, while Pia is matrimonial, where desire leads to when sincere. Pia loves her husband despite that he had her killed. And in the back of his mind, Dante may be thinking of Beatrice, whose desire and love is a mystery to us, but not to Dante, since he wasn't her chosen one. I think consciously or unconsciously, when women speak from this moment on, are kind of stations of the cross for Dante. Reminders of what or whom were never meant to be his.
That’s a cool angle - the women as stations of the cross for Dante. He held them in great admiration and respect, maybe even more than men when it came to being helpful for someone’s spiritual growth. I don’t remember that Borges story, I’ll need to look it up because it sounds so intriguing.
"Those who repent go to Heaven..." Those who died by _violence_ without Last Rites ... Chanting the _Miserere,_ ahh! A lot of people in this canto. "Humility," yes, indeed. Bonconte, et. al
I just looked up Pia, and found that Donizetti wrote an opera about her. Now to try to track down that one!
That’s wonderful - something else I didn’t know. I’ll do some research, too! Thank you 🙏🏻
I do love the way this canto ends, with the economy and mystery of Pia's words and image of a gem.
So interesting to know that Dante himself was in the battle in 1289 - thank you for mentioning it as it is not in the notes I have.
(I've decided it is time for me to re-read " Rendezvous with Rama" and have ordered a copy. I was sad to hear that your opportunity to meet Sir Clarke was taken from you. I do remember my own sadness on hearing about his death - something about this engineer's writing was so very inspiring!)
Another great discussion. As I noted in the last canto, I'm really enjoying the language used.
Thank you John. It really feels so different from Inferno’s language, doesn’t it?
What a gorgeous day when you recorded this. I have had a strange week and only got back to Dante on Sunday.
I found myself wondering why is Virgil so grumpy here so I was glad you unpicked it a bit.
I couldn't quite spot in my version where Dante offers to pray for Buonconte.
Virgil is grumpy also because he’s so out of his depth in Purgatorio, and he keeps making mistake after mistake, many more than in Inferno.
Dante’s promise to pray for these souls, as a generous offer, comes as soon as he meets them (vv. 58 to 62).
L.A. weather is hard to beat! It’s the reason why Hitchcock decided to move to L.A. with his wife.
@@tomlabooks3263 ah I was looking for something specific to Buonconte.
@@scallydandlingaboutthebooks Understand. I don’t think he says anything specific.
He’s very generous to women. He puts them on the good side. ☺️
Yes, the souls in Purgatory are so caring. It’s a great contrast from those in Inferno.
I am still reading Canto 5 of Purgatorio and wanted to get some more information about the third spirit. It is very helpful~~ Thank you so much.
I had no idea Dante saw battle. I just looked up Battle of Campaldino (just the Wiki page). According to the page, he was only 24 at the time. I really like this Canto, and the way it ends, as well. The language here really sets the tone for the rest of Purgatorio. It may just be the way I am reading it, with the translation I have, but there does seem to be a more mature sentiment, even when he is playing with words.
Hi Pae! So are you saying Dante the poet might have actually been growing and maturing himself while writing the DC? You know, I think I’ve always felt that in the back of my mind but never fully rationalized. I think you’re spot on. That would give the autobiographical element even more strength.
@@tomlabooks3263 That is what I had originally thought, and still lean in that direction. However, knowing the complexity of the DC, I also wouldn't be surprised if the change in tone may be a comment on how one matures in a religious setting. Dante, no longer being in hell, he is closer to a peace that comes with maturity in such a setting. It would sure be nice to have an interview with him to find these things out haha😅
@@attention5638 😂 Arthur C. Clarke would answer, with his trademark smirk: “Nothing’s impossible.” Who knows what A.I. will bring us... and maybe sooner than what we think.
@@tomlabooks3263 Haha Yes! Well, now I am counting on it 😂
Is it also summer in Purgatory, Tom?!? Love the shirt, and the discussion, as always.
I have always found this section the most powerful part of the Comedy, and your videos are helping me appreciate new aspects to it.
Best, Jack
Haha well let’s say that spring of 1300 was a warm spring. Thanks for your comment and yes! Let’s make booktube more colorful with our cheerful shirts 😂
Have to say the lack of woman's voice jars to my modern ear (although of course I understand why..). I simply love Virgil scolding Dante at the start ..makes him very real to me , sounds very authentic ...and I love the wisdom behind his words ...written for the distraction of social media !! And the scene at the end of the storm was very powerful ...I was out on the moors yesterday at it was so like that when the clouds came down ..
I like your reference to media distraction here.
Again, thank you Tomas!
This is an interesting follow-up from the indolent in the previous canto. Here everything is sped up, which seems to compound the threat of distraction--in fact the souls stop singing to say "ohhh" when they are distracted by Dante's shadow. I'm even more struck that Dante and Virgil keep moving while the souls are pleading for them to be remembered when he gets back to the world. I can see that Dante's forward progress is supposed to indicate steadfastness in contrast with the distraction of the souls, but emotionally it felt very cold of him not to stop and listen intently. I can't help but conjure an image of Dante and Virgil similar to the campy 1960's TV Batman with Batman and Robin climbing up a building with various people poking their heads out of windows to speak to them. Still, it's beautiful to be in a place where there's more kindness and thoughtfulness.
Hahah 😂 Someone has to draw that for us, it would be priceless art. Yes I also love the sound effect here - the choir song crashing into a “ohhh” like an ocean wave.
Love the B & R image here.
Good day, Tom. Repentance and forgiveness. Makes me think of a Borges story about Abel meeting with Cain and having forgotten that he'd been murdered by him.
I completely missed that not since Francesca had another feminine voice spoken to Dante. And both died by violence. Francesca, for me, is desire, while Pia is matrimonial, where desire leads to when sincere. Pia loves her husband despite that he had her killed. And in the back of his mind, Dante may be thinking of Beatrice, whose desire and love is a mystery to us, but not to Dante, since he wasn't her chosen one. I think consciously or unconsciously, when women speak from this moment on, are kind of stations of the cross for Dante. Reminders of what or whom were never meant to be his.
That’s a cool angle - the women as stations of the cross for Dante. He held them in great admiration and respect, maybe even more than men when it came to being helpful for someone’s spiritual growth. I don’t remember that Borges story, I’ll need to look it up because it sounds so intriguing.
@@tomlabooks3263 Good day Tom. I thought I posted a link to the Borges story. It's called "Legend." and it's a half page long, but memorable.
I love Fano !
"Those who repent go to Heaven..." Those who died by _violence_ without Last Rites ... Chanting the _Miserere,_ ahh! A lot of people in this canto. "Humility," yes, indeed. Bonconte, et. al
I really love the musicality of this canto.
i rather liked meeting so few women in inferno! by the way i love your shirt tom but can't make out are those birds or bananas in white???
😆😁 They are in fact bananas! One of my favorite shirts.
@@tomlabooks3263 cool! going bananas...😀🤣