Michael Jordan's trainer destroyed Lebron in GOAT debate!
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- Опубліковано 17 лип 2023
- Tim Grover speaks about who is the greatest player of all time! Unsurprisingly picks Michael Jordan over Lebron James.
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Goat debate ended in 2011.
what happened then?
@@sasakalak4681 LBJ crashed and burned under pressure
@@ghidorahthetruealpha6198 found it, thank you
Ended in 2011?wow!that's why bron champion in 2012,and 2013,finalist in13,14,15,champion again in 2016,finalist again in 17,in 18,wow grandfa bron champion and finalist,2020 champion again in Lakers,put grandfa bron on other team it makes them ring,,Jordan put on other team no playoffs,got 2 points on 39minutes,is that ur goat?the goat debate ended in wizard where fake goat Jordan played😂
@@ghidorahthetruealpha6198 burn under pressure,8 straight finals in the time of Kobe,Shaq,wade,Duncan,Carter,all the stars of his generation,khawi,Chris Paul,harden,Durant,curry,until now dominates,but MJ 2points only in 39 mins in wizard with no playoffs,harden ur idol joining superteam until now no rings,,derrick rose,Damian Lillard,Anthony,and so many,haters of grandfa bron ache in there heart😂,psst this is now 2024 not 2016 where grandfa bron demolish the 73-9record of the warriors,please haters ,I know u never forget that memory ha ha ha,,what makes haters cry the all-time leading scorer of grandfa bron,jealous guy by John Lennon ,I dedicate that song for grandfa haters like u ha ha ha
Whoever says himself is the GOAT is not the real GOAT. Period.
mj literally called himself black jesus
Agreed - Jordan is miles above LeBron. I think Kobe probably better than LeBron as well.
He is kangaroo not goat
Muhammad Ali said he was the Greatest Of All Time
@@muds112316-6 speaks for it self against Kobe
It's insane that we live in a world where Jordan's legacy needs to be defended and debated. Insane.
You are right
Jordan's Finals record was a perfect 6 -0 with no game 7's and 2 3peats. LBJ's record is 4 wins 6 losses, 2 sweeps, 3 Teams...It's absolutely insane that this debate keeps coming up.
agreed
Ikr, LeBron’s arrogance is a towering inferno, relentless and salient, consuming the parched forests of modesty with the fury of his self-praised greatness. Amidst the smoky ruins left in its rampage, the tender buds of humbleness find no oasis. Instead, they wither, succumbing to the choking haze of his inflated self-importance.
When one utters the term "GOAT", it should be a serenade composed in honor of countless heroes whose sweat, passion, and unyielding spirits have carved an enduring legacy. Yet, LeBron’s solo performance rattles this harmonious symphony, transforming it into a harsh soliloquy, a narcissistic aria bellowed from the summit of his self-built pedestal. His words, dripping with hubris, tarnish the golden canvas of history, casting long shadows over the tales of many greats who have danced the dance of champions.
Too true
LBJ “we came back from 3-1”
MJ “you were down 3-1 lol”
MJ would probably ask Lebron... So what is it like to play a game 7 in the finals? I've never let it get that far.
@@kingdarryl7592 he'd also ask, so what's it like facing the best team oat, I never had tk go against something like that.
@@josiahbayley5615 - you do realize Jordans finals opponents primarily had more wins than the teams Lebron faced. You do know that right???
Well played 🎤
It's funny because that debate is going on only in the USA. All around the world, everybody would say MJ without thinking...
When he called himself the goat, that was one of the most cringe moments in sport history
yeah... i remember my reaction, it was second hand embarr\assment and lemon face
So you don’t think Jordan believes he’s the GOAT…… you’re outta you’re mind. You have to have that mentality to even be considered he’s the GOAT.
@@stephano.vargasyou can believe it, but to say it like you really are should be a crime. Jordan never called himself the goat, people and players would say it for him. Big difference. 🤦♂️🤷♂️
@@stephano.vargasa king never needs to tell his subjects he’s the king they already know
You must not have watched Muhammad Ali, Roy Jones Jr., Tyson, Mayweather, or anyone with extreme confidence. Shaq’s said he’s the greatest big man ever. Others have said it. Get out of your feelings. You didn’t like him before this so anything he says is probably cringe to you. LeBron is the new GOAT. Nuff said.
“If you’re good at something, you’ll tell them. If you’re great at something, they’ll tell you.”
-Walter Payton
Perfectly well said by Walter Payton, Derrick
TB12 never called himself the goat but everyone knows that he is.
" I am the greatest" know who said that and is the greatest of all time.
@@nikhilharidas87 WHO ?????????
@@nikhilharidas87 yeah, but Ali didn’t need a superteam or flop to help him win in the ring like LeBronze lol.
I watched MJ play when i was younger and when the bulls were down by 1, or 2 with 10 seconds left. You knew Jordan was getting the ball and was going to win the game. Every kid was trying his moves on the neighborhood courts and had the shoes on too. Such an awesome time!
exactly no one pratcies lebrons moves. people used to say kobe or jordan when they shot and i not even that old im 30 and i used to practice jordan moves and kobe i grew up with both kobe and lebron i even think kobe is better then lebron lebron to me is like under top 10
That’s not true. Did you forget about Kerr, JP hitting them shots?
genuinely agree on ds
💯 we would watch the games on our old school "big screen" TV (those rear-projection ones which were like 3ft wide from back to front and heavy as hell btw). I remember being so awe struck watching MJ play and wishing I could do the moves and then after the game we'd go outside and spend the next few days trying to replicate his moves while we were wearing Jordans. Such great memories from growing up in the 90s..
@tedwilliams185 yup and people forget that kyrie hit that shot that won lebron that title in Cleveland
How is that the greatest team ever assembled when it took 7 games to win the series?
And they were down 3-1...
He's saying Golden State was the greatest team assembled with 82+ wins and Curry.... Whatever.. I would take the 86 Celtics over any other
Greatest team assembled ever was the team that went 72-10 in the regular season that end up winning the NBA championship and never allowed a game 7 in the Finals. That’s the 95-96 Chicago Bulls. They went to win more two straight NBA Finals. Golden State warriors went 73-9(New NBA regular season record ) but lost in the Finals in 7 games. End of discussion.
Thank you
There is no debate, there is nothing to destroy! MJ is the GOAT
I’d take wilt over mike any day of the week. I don’t think its close who would be more dominant today. With todays technology and training/nutrition, as well as how the rules today would be much better for wilt than the rules in his era were, Wilt would be an unstoppable force of nature.
@@GarkimyerWilt is a good candidate, and a way better choice than Lebron. Wilt's problem is he did not use his teammates well. He focused too much on individual scoring earlier in his career.
@@Garkimyer ditto for MJ
agreed
YES. All day, every day and forever! 💯👍🏾
All I know is that when I see MJ’s highlights I get goosebumps and when I see Lebron’s I feel nothing. MJ is the 🐐 no question. 23 forever 🏀
easy and simple,
and everyone's experience
very good point 👍
cuz u dont hoop
@@ArmyofDrag343 not anymore because I hooped so much I destroyed my knees. Appreciate you thinking you knew me tho.
@@ArmyofDrag343 clearly you dont if you think LeBron is better. He's not even top 10, let alone AT THE TOP lmao
@OC.TINYYY how is a pass first player with the most points off all time not even top 10 to you? Just say that out loud to see how ridiculous it is
DAMN!!!!!! OK, THE ONE STAT THAT STANDS OUT TO ME IS, (THE 10 SCORING TITLES, WITH 7 OF THEM BEING CONSECUTIVE) WOW!!! NOBODY HAS EVEN COME CLOSE TO THAT!!!!!!
Watching MJ play was watching art in motion. Not just his dunks, but the way he moved with the ball was BEAUTIFUL!
lebron will never be the goat with his turnovers and 6 finals losses
Very true. You don’t get the name “Air” for nothing…. But If you could pick any player in history in their prime to be on your team, you’d be foolish not to pick Wilt over anyone else.
@@champspecWilt lacked killer instinct. That's why he doesn't have 10 rings. He was a nice guy and admitted it in a documentary. He felt sorry for the other players.
EXACTLY! Jordan had dexterity, grace and agility when he moved. When you watch Lebron he is a bull in a china shop. Now that's okay for a big man, but Jordan would completely outplay James and run circles around him.
Oprah said poetry in motion. What ever we call it, it was in motion
I really appreciate Lebron for what he did for Cleveland. In fact he's my idol, but I do believe Michael Jordan is the GOAT. The fear factor, the playstyle, the acrobatics, the hang time, the killer instinct, the charisma, physical attributes. He's like a prophet of basketball, chosen by the basketball gods to play just perfectly.
He is the GOAT period
Very well said.
Finally a Lebron fan who has done his homework!
I'm a Jordan fan and know he's the goat but I appreciate all he has done for the sport of the NBA I see too many flaws in his game to rank him higher than the top 7. I don't care about points because this league today is made for scoring it's a scoring friendly league. It's like taking cars in the 70's and putting them up against today's cars. I think kobe is very unappreciated and too many people forget about the monster he was.
I am talking about LeBron being ranked no higher than 7
And that stands for Going. On. Another. Team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't know how a real man could watch Leflop throwing himself across the court when he isn't touched. Crying into his hands complaining about a no call on a foul. And carrying the ball around without dribbling.
A lot of the younger generations unfortunately won't ever understand how widely known Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls were in the 90s and early 2000s. Jordan, Pippen and Rodman were house hold names, regardless of whether you followed NBA or not. Michael was on the news quite a bit. Lebron and his multiple teams have never had that impact globally.
MJ rocked NBA, he shook the world, no matter what anyone say... MJ will forever be the GOAT
emotional how? Magic and Bird save the NBA, but Jordan put the NBA on the world map. Jordan made money for the NBA domestically and globally. Isaiah Thomas former head of the NBA players union said it best because of Jordan players are still making money even after they have retired. Michael Jordan playing on the dream team opened up global sports markets for the other countries to view American basketball. That’s money for the NBA and tv networks. Because of him it became easier for the NBA to broker deals to get global basketball talent in the US. Without Jordan Nike is not the global business that it became. Without Jordan players don’t get the lucrative contracts like Lebron, Kobe, Durant and Curry get. Michael Jordan was the poster child of endorsements during his playing years. All the money Jordan generated for the NBA his playing contract was peanuts. Hell look at the NBA 75 year list. Who is number one? Jordan! Please tell me other than surpassing the shooting records due to longevity and moving from team to team looking to win championship rings, what has Leflop done for the NBA? I don’t see no two three peats in his career totals. Do you? That’s reality not emotion.
Thank you i am not much Knowledgable about Basketball but everyone knows who MJ is he was a larger then Life Character man even as a child i knew who he was and Basketball was not even like Avaibel to watch back then haha this debates are crazy XD MJ stays the Goat till someone like him comes back@@fidelnenas8390
With barley any social media
Tell that to the guy he never beat in the playoffs. His dad Larry Joe Bird.
@@fidelnenas8390 Don't be alarmed, but Magic and Bird were "WORLD" renowned when Jordan was still in college. He took shoes global, not the NBA. People all over the world knew about the "SHOWTIME" Lakers. Fact check it.
MJ was never down 3-1 in a series, so that's why he's the GOAT
Plus the comeback was lucky or fixed.
@godloves9163 facts! Green serving a suspension game in the middle of the finals like wtf?! He plays that game, cavs lose Bron ends up with 3 rings
Jordan wouldn't allow that being down 3-1 in finals knock it off
dumbest comment ever
MJ never faced a great team in finalsM@@meechryles7072
His Airness! . No debate needed.
I always knew that MJ is the goat. But I never thought that he holds this unbelievable record. The only player 4times regular season MVP, Defensive player of the year, all Nba 1st team and finals MVP. All at the same time. 4x. Insane.
Greatness doesn’t have to tell people how great they are. Actions speak louder than words.
Other people do that for you😊
@@raymondgarland5598 lol…. That’s why you’ll remain a nobody
Lol we’re so indoctrinated into being docile betas it’s actually funny sometimes… a lil sad but funny… you need to have value you be humble my boy… when you have power and status you can do and say what you like… being humble is for poor people… who in gods green earth do you think you are telling someone who’s achieved more than you how too feel and act 😂😂 get your accolades up
@@jaysandi88 a Lion doesn’t concern himself with the opinion of sheep boy. 😂
@@erikj345 lol you people need to stop quoting shit that you think makes you sound cool… you’ll wreck your brain… calm your tits with the quotables
I've seen so many times when Lebron himself or his teammate loses the ball, he would get frustrated and just slowly walk back, or even take an early exit when he's losing. That act alone makes him not GOAT worthy. If it was MJ, he would die trying to get the ball back, he would fight till the very end and refuse to lose. He always gave it his all.
That's why I coined the name Lebum many years ago.
Kobe too. Lebron would not die on the court to try and win, Jordan and Kobe would. MJ #1 Kobe #2, Leflop maybe top 10. Game on the line ask any player who they would want taking the final shot, in their prime, Lelost would MAYBE be in the top 20 or top 30. MJ, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Dr. J, Nowitski, Miller, Robinson, Duncan, Thomas, Kareem, west, russel, nash, wade, curry, durant, Iverson, paul, stockton, pierce, etc....
@@atyt11why Tf would you die for a game?? You people need reality
@@sacamentoboband that’s why you’re probably a bum
@@jaysandi88 I guess you've never heard of the literary tool known as hyperbole...
I am 43 years old so I lived through the highlight of the Jordan era when basketball was the world to me. I hated Jordan because he was so good and did not let any other teams win. But there's no question that he is the best player ever and always will be
There is a big problem with Jordan that, I believe, triggers this whole debate;
He made it look easy.
I watched Jordan in real time from my teens to my early 30s. James simply cannot compare.
FACTS
We live in a era when losing 6 finals make you a GOAT, but winning 6 finals makes you a plumber.
Ooooh snap!
Plumbers keep society running and protect the health of the entire nation; TF does a basketball player do?
don't forget it took the Bulls 6 games to win those too; not 7.
@@musicpatron1693 To me, that is the #2 reason why MJ's titles are so impressive. That feat won't happen again. I don't think any other team will 3-peat without a game 7 for a very long time, especially not do it twice.
LBJ in his unabashed speech of making his big comeback win never mentioned that they ejected Dremond Green for two of those games, only the Warriors best defender
I watched that 3-1 comeback, it was absolutely the worst cheating by the officials I’ve ever witnessed in an NBA series!
I think Michael Jordan shouldn't be compared to any body, He is the best the ever did it. No one had ever did it like Michael, I am 53 years old and I haven't seen no body do the things that Jordan did in the court.
Jordan is the GOAT of all sports!
@@dennissanchez5171not boxing, MMA, or kickboxing Mr. "All sports"
lmao
NBA rigged his titles
agree on you mate
As a Lebron James fan, I can honestly say that Michael Jordan is the greatest player of all time
Thank you for being honest
Based on what?
Respect.
Somebody with some sense!
@@williamalexander9485based on 6 championships
Jordan also never asked to play with better players. He helped his team be play better. Also, f they lost the game to a controversial referee call, he didn't blame the ref, he blamed himself for leaving it in the ref's hands.
He whined for the bulls to get Pippen, Harper etc. Grant and Rodman lol.
The way we came back in that fashion...
Horrible officiating and the pressuring the league to suspend Draymond!
“He who praises himself deserves no praise at all”.
- idk who said it, it just feels right 😂
That's biblical and it was JESUS CHRIST WHO SAID IT,
Matthew 23:12 KJV: And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
michael jordan calls himself black jesus lol
@Medi0cre He isn't "BLACK JESUS" THERE'S ONLY ONE AND HE DIED ON CROSS, 1,991 YEARS AGO FOR OUR SINS, HE IS THE ULTIMATE "BLACK HEBREW ISREALITE" THE KING 🤴🏾 OF "Black Hebrew Isrealites" like myself and Michael Jordan! MJ is just a man WHOM GOD THROUGH THE MAN CHRIST JESUS BLESSED TO PLAY BASKETBALL 🏀 like no one else, only Kobe Bryant comes the very closest to what we've seen from him!
But people who agree with this quote will back down immediately if this applied to certain someone who's name starts with a 'T' and ends with a 'RUMP'
@@Medi0creno he doesn’t, his fans made that name up.
Watching MJ playing was pure magic! He was, is and will be the goat forever!
only reason i watched basketball was Jordan otherwise i just don't care for it
I mostly agree but as we all know records are meant to be broken but I don't see any current players that have that MJ or Kobe factor. Kobe is the only player to come close to MJ status and as much as I think LeBron is a great player he's just not in my Top 5. I think his GOAT status is safe for a very long time.... Considering the NBA is just getting easier to score I don't see how you could ever overcome his status... I hope I never do but I'm not one to say never....
LBJ also has magic, he can make 4-5 steps and still the referees will not see anything
@@bimbkin2830yea it sux now
dude really did not acknowledge kyries contribution to the cleveland championship
Having watch the regular seasons when Magic, Ewing, Stockton, Thomas, Bird, Abdul-Jabbar, Wilkins, Malone, O'Neil... and many more, the spectacle, the emotion, the gameplay. It is the golden era of the NBA... and shinning brightest was MJ, making the impossible possible. He has been the best player ever period. He could play all positions, offensive and defensive. Never gave up, had amazing ball control, and was lethal from mid range with a shot almost impossible to block. Did not matter what was your team this man made you an instant fan. Made you play basketball in a different way, loving the game. Humble, hard working... a role model.
Its not just 6 rings to 4... Its 2 three peats and never losing in the finals to zero. And so much more. After Kobe, i stopped looking for the "next Michael Jordan." There will never be another...kobe was the closest thing
Agreed.
Right, so all the years Jordan didnt make it to the finals actually helped his legacy. Losing in the first round is better than losing in the finals.
@@keist7 once jordan made it to the top... He was never de-throwned. Lebron cant say that. Lebron has no 3-peats. Jordan would have probably gotten injured going for 4 in a row as golden state showed how repeated deep playoff runs wears on an athletes body...
@@keist7 the reason jordan is so great is partially because of his loses to detriot. Detroit took jordan to another level. Btw...Nobody compares how someone lost in goat debates... They are measured by how they win...
@@keist7 also never losing in the finals beats repeatedly losing in the finals everyday...
Michael Jordan wasn't only the greatest basketball player of all time, he might even have been the greatest athelete of all time. He was just that dominating and competitive.
Ain't no "might even" about it.
Americans 😂😂
@@wisdomenake242 Try to stay cool over there. I hear there's a _whopping_ 90° "heat wave" spreading across the continent. Lol. Buncha' European p*ssies.
Tom Brady has something to say about that #7
The greatest athlete is Bo Jackson.
This one time when I was in my 20’s I played hallway basketball against my 8,6 and 10 year old nephews 3 against one. I was 6ft 4 and they were about 3-4 ft. I was focused. The beating that day will be remembered in history. 60 to 0. With over 30 steals, 100 rebounds, and 30 conservative dunks. I knew I did something special. I knew I was the goat..
😂
But you never won against Bird.
@@jogendron6320 i see what you did there, but bird got swept by a guy before bird swept him back.
That's why Bird is the Goat... Hands down.. his best teammate is Kevin Mchale who averaged 15-18 points a game. Last in steals last in assists, medium at rebounds.
Jordan had pippen who was the 2nd best player in the league... Magic had Kareem top 3 basketball players of all time and James Worthy. Hands down Bird made the NBA and Jordan was 12-23 head to head and 0-8 in the playoffs vs Bird. If Bird wasn't in the league Jordan would of had 3 more championships...
GOAT Bird or Jordan
#2 Bird or Jordan
3. Magic
4.Kareem
5.Kobe
6. Shaq
7. Hakeem the dream
8. Chamberlain, Tim Duncan,Celtic Bill Russell or maybe LeBron, maybe...
LeBron is lucky to be in the Top 8 at best maybe #10 or #11 in reality
9. Wil
2016 Was a Rigged Finals and The World knew that.
Older Kobe looked great against Prime Lebron, and he's considered a slightly lesser Jordan. So really, LBJ's gotta get past Kobe before he can assail MJ.
The disrespect to Kobe is insane. Absolutely agree with your comment.
@@Getloose360 media manipulated....the PLAYERS said he was he was the best in the league for year including Lebron.....places like China wheres there's no ESPN you see who the citizens choose without the bias propaganda ....they hype Lebrick
dirk,gianns,joker,kwaia,steph,kd....ALL went thru the "GOAT'S" PRIME???🤔
Lol the hate lbj is real
Thats not a great point. Lots of players look great against each other. When discussing the goat its about the whole volume of work and impact on the game both on and and off the court and Lebron has bigger one than Kobe that's a fact. Jordan has all those things bigger than both of them.
Lebron dominated kobe their entire careers statistically and heads up... Kobe wasnt even the best player on his own team half his career, Shaq was.
The simple fact that Jordan Era defense was aggressive and people can beat the crap out of you .unlike today and he still did what he did is wild to me.
Truth
Why do people like calling fouling defense. But when you play in real life y’all call every foul and flop
I think people romanticize the "beat up" defense, when that was mainly the bad boy era Pistons. We shouldn't forget that at Jordan's height, he was given so many phantom fouls in his favour. Also, the illegal defense rules, where it was difficult to double team, gave guys like Mike a real advantage against a single defender.
thats the fact
you are absolutely correct sir
@@KFRoss1 that's also a very good point that I did not consider .thanks for teaching me something new.
This is not a controversial question at all. It's Jordan hands down. No question.
Also, Jordan put a hard pause on the dynasties of his time. When he came into the league the Lakers, Celtics, and later the Pistons were the heavy hitters. Jordan helped end that dominance. The Bulls three-peat then he retires and the Rockets emerge with two straight in his absence. MJ returns and they three-peat again while denying the Jazz from a potential dynasty. He retires again and then we see league dominance from the Spurs and Lakers. You can see how one player’s absence or presence set the course of an entire era.
The only reason MJ was regular season MVP only five times instead of seven times, was because it started to get dreary having MJ get all these awards on his own. 1993 and 1998 Barkley and Malone were awarded season MVP. Michael took it personally and answered with finals MVP and winning the Championship in both cases, while Barkley and Malone were way behind their performances compared to their regular season.
Yeah similar things have happened in other sports. People get tired of seeing someone on top so if there is someone who even comes into the same ball park they ride that wave to try and break the cycle.
Preach 💯
Like giving Embiid the MVP last year because they didn't want Jokic to win a 3rd straight even though he deserved it more than Embiid.@@ShawnS14
@@sweetdreamangell07 absolutely. Disgusting
Pretty sure MJ should have 3 more MVPs think Magic won one too that was his(1989) , although LeBron and think Kobe should of had 2 more as well.
Forget all the stats, just look at the way MJ moved, his style. He helped change the way basketball looked.
And that's why the league is soft af now. The only way they could manufacture another mj was by making it easier to score. Everything is a foul now. If you look at LeBron, he's throwing himself on the ground and getting free throws, which he sucks at as well
If LeBron played in the league with MJ we wouldn't even be talking about him.
It's not a debate to me. It's Jordan, and it's not even close. The Queen's fans can keep hollering all they want. Anytime a man got to beg for respect, that should tell him that he needs to stop trying to convince people of something most people will never except.
In an 11 year stretch between 1987-1998 MJ won 9 scoring titles and was 9 time first team defensive selection. Won 6 of each retired and came back and awarded 3 of each again. Throw in a bunch of rings, MVPs, FMVPs, and a DPOY. That is by far the most dominant stretch of basketball in NBA history.
10 scoring titles*
@@pennyscifen4388 it was 9 in 11 years. He retired for 1 year came back and only played 15 games the next year and didn't qualify for a scoring title.
In a washed league
@@eduardoeliascanela7588it couldn't have been too washed because LeBron had to run to Miami to beat the last remaining members of that era
My how Lebron fans forget that old man Duncan an ginobli waxed lebrons ass over an over.
The 90s era was much better than todays era. The warriors wouldn’t have any rings if they played back in the day.
Adam silver even said they hadda change the rules to make it easier to score for guys like steph curry.
Pippen would make Lebron look dumb, bc pippen practices again Jordan’s post moves, an Lebron ain’t even CLOSE to being as good in the post as Jordan.
Lebrick has most turnovers in NBA history
An example of how important mj was for the NBA, in the 90s without social networks in all parts of the world, every child and every adult knew who Michael Jordan was, even if they didn't like Basketball, that's unmatched, I say it knowingly, I'm from Argentina
I forgot who was ruling the country of Jordan at the time, but they invited him to their country just to talk!!! Truly, he was world famous!
So true. Jordan is the goat here in Philippines as well.
😅
Jordan is the goat in Serbia... and noone can dispute the popularity, the level of basketball and the numbers of good basketball players per capita coming from Serbia... and still mj rulez as the goat if you ask me
Argentina.... aammm.... I know another GOAT who was born in Argentina and currently plays in Miami....
i remember jordan being poisoned im his hotel and still playing the game. i also remember lebron quitting because of leg cramps. a warrior vs a complete pansie.
Yep you refer to game 5 of 98 nba finals agaist the jazz
Jordan or Wilt.
Lebron isn't even invited to the presentation ceremony !
To me Mike is the Goat not just because of his stats but because of how he played the game it was like watching poetry
Exactly, and Lebron lowers his shoulder, drives his defender back (like and nfl lineman), puts up an ugly shot, and then cries foul.
You said it man. LeBron's like watching a bull in a China closet. Jordan was a motherfuking panther
Exactly 💯
Exactly
100% agree. MJ - basketball art. LJ - just basketball.
MJ's style was simply outstanding. This flow in the movements... unmatched. With LeBron, I always have the impression that every move is pumped full of testosterone, and he has to show everyone what kind of stallion he is
Peacock vs Eagle
Well put. I feel like Lebron has lacked this classiness in the game, instead always trying to show and prove your tough while with Jordan it just came naturally. He could soar like an eagle with class but at the same time he could be killin you like a dog but very so subtly.
Goat doesn't say he is a goat. Lebron is so insecure. He has to say he is the goat. Pathetic
Your comment tells me you haven't followed Bron's career at all. MJ may have the better style in general, but LeBron from a career standup, LeBron is unbelievably well rounded. MJ was a much more polished shooter and 1 on 1 defender, LeBron relies more on driving the basketball, but is above and beyond a better passer than Jordan. Jordan thrived on ISO ball and wanted to beat you by himself. LeBron a pass first player who thrives in orchestrating the offense to make the right and smart play in his mind and get his entire team involved, which sometimes has been his downfall.
Stallions don't flop
Tim Grover is absolutely correct 💯.
Michael Jordan's the undisputed
G. O. A. T.
THIS POINT IS NOT EVEN DEBATABLE.
His mouth said one thing, but his body language said another. He himself did not believe in what he was saying.
Greatness is consistency. Wining year after year after year no matter what adjustments the opponents make.
Climbing the mountain is hard, staying there year in year out is even harder. MJ is the GOAT. Not even debatable.
I see what you did there :)
Exactly. He knew he was talking crazy…He felt stupid after he said it too because the people around him didn’t seem to agree with him 😂
So than bill russells the goat? He won like 10 straight rings
@@himmothy111 lol he’s never in the goat debate because he isn’t lol it’s not only about rings go look at his highlights and then come back and tell me if he’s the goat🤣🤣🤣
@@budgonstopCANELO according to this comment staying at the top is what makes MJ the goat… Russell stood at the top for longer
Most stats favor MJ, but you really don't need that if you watched them both play their whole careers. Michael was just a master of the art of basketball.
I think that's it...many of us have witnessed both careers, whereas the young heads have only seen LBJ, it doesn't help that MJ's footage looks so grainy and dated.
So you watch both players and think geez… Jordan is soooooo much better than Lebron?
Lol ayt
@@jaysandi88 Or you could just check the stats. Jordan IS soooo much better than Lebron, by a longshot.
@@youtubeisassho8834 nah… Jordan has better accomplishments…. Lebron has more points… a better scoring percentage… more rebounds… more rpg… more assists… more apg…compare the people Mike beat to the 10 scoring titles then do the same for Lebron… then check the points generated per game between the 2… playoffs and regular season… then check the competition… then come back and tell me if you still think Mike is the GOAT
@@jaysandi88 "More points" is accumulative and means little. Jordan actually beat Lebron to all major scoring milestones. Jordan has a better season and post season scoring average and a bevy of scoring records. Meanwhile, Lebron shoots just 37% from beyond 10'. Get back to me when you know how stats work.
imo it comes down to this. who are you picking to represent you in a one-on-one if your life literally depended on the outcome? your player loses you die.
Mj
Lebron “You did something special “ forgets his team did a lot too ! SMH
Growing up watching MJ. MJ always made it look like it was easy to him. Lebron always seemed like he was struggling.
and always looking for the foul in his favour. MJ just frigging gets the buckets anyway. For those of us who are old enough we know the Chicago teams back then weren't great as individuals other than MJ: Pip was good but lack the killer mentality, Longley was pretty average to be honest, BJ Armstrong/ Kerr were alright, Grant was a good power forward, I love Rodman but he was a loose cannon. But it was MJ who dragged everyone along on the court. that mental toughness. that competitiveness. and back when the game was a whole lot more physical. not calling foul for breathing at someone...
Exactly, MJ play like a magician, LBJ like a plumber.
@@lostinvedabulls had one of the best teams in the league without mj. Thats why they almost made the finals in their first year without him
@@himmothy111but they don’t win without him😂
Remind me of early days when he keeps flopping … do you see the legends doing that?
Mind you all of MJ's accolades and accomplishments are accumulated within 12 - 13 seasons of his career. Now if MJ played as long as LeBron has so far, can you imagine how insanely crazy his stats would be?
@@Johnnnnie I beg to differ, it's true with the aging of the players but even with that a new team could have been assemble and with MJ's influence of who he wanted in that team after all it will be Jordan who was going to mold and shape it into a super team. And I strongly think that the aging players could have gone for another championship or two.
@@Johnnnniehe retired IN HIS PRIME then retired again and came back like 4 years later and was averaging like 24-25 ppg n his team was in playoff until he got hurt n they dropped back to the bittom of the east. if he wanted to he wouldve never retired n stayed in nba shape
But he didn’t
yep....and MJ had one 50 greatest teammate ...and one 75 greatest teammate Scottie Pippen & dennis Rodman and one Allstar Scottie Pippen Lebron has played with 4 75 greatest Dwade, Melo, AD, and Shaq..and 44 allstars do the math...its not even close
@@Johnnnnieif you take the games he missed in his prime and just put his average in there he’d be the all time leading scorer lol. Just saying
Bron makes it all about himself. It’s a team game. He act like he can play 1v5 like Kobe
MJ also took time off to pursue golf and baseball. Only a goat has that ability. How many times did MJ lose a championship series???
During the period from 1970 to 1986, as the NBA expanded from 8 to 23 teams, no team managed to achieve consecutive championship victories. Winning a championship alone is an arduous task, but defending the title and accomplishing a repeat victory is even more challenging, mainly due to other teams closely studying your strategies to take you down. However, in 1988, the Showtime Lakers broke the pattern and became the first team to successfully repeat as champions since the league's expansion. This feat was followed by the 1990 Bad Boy Pistons, and in 1992, the Bulls also achieved a repeat championship win. The next year, in 1993, they pursued the elusive three-peat and remarkably, led by Michael Jordan, they secured three consecutive championships. Michael Jordan's accomplishments were extraordinary, as both Magic and Isiah could not replicate his success. Even during his initial retirement, many already considered him the Greatest of All Time (GOAT). However, he made a sensational comeback and added three more championship rings to his collection, consecutively! Let's emphasize the difficulty of REPEATING: Michael Jordan not only led his team to a historic three-peat but achieved the legendary and incredibly rare REPEAT THREE-PEAT.
Such an achievement is unparalleled, and only those with two(2) three(3)-peats should be worthy of wearing the number #23, making Michael Jordan undoubtedly the greatest basketball player ever-THE BEST THERE EVER WAS AND THE BEST THERE EVER WILL BE.
Edit:
2 other insane stats of the Jordan-led bulls
- Bulls never lost 3 in a row in their championship winning seasons
- Bulls never lost a playoff series to a team that was equally or lower seeded than them. HE ALWAYS WIN WHEN EXPECTED TO WIN, NO UPSETS
Lot's of people are making great points here about Jordan being the GOAT, but your points about two three-peats IMO is the best argument of all. One 3-peat is a mind blowing accomplishment. A 2nd 3-peat sounds like a fantasy. Yet he did it; with one team to boot. I don't understand how anyone can even debate this.
@@mauricethompson1765 They try to diminish MJ's winnings, like he faced an old pistons team when he beat them, like MJ faced plumbers in the finals or MJ played in the weakest era of basketball, even to the point that MJ had HUGE help from teammates and coaches when he joined the Bulls and he was carried by those " help ".
It just make me sick how low those Lebron fans and supporters would go just so their " king " can even be in the conversation with MJ, sad really. Truth is, as a MJ fan, we dont need to drag any of his competitions to the mud like Lebron fans do, MJ did everything on the court and proved to the world what he is capable of and people who watched both player play with more than 2 brain cell can tell who is the better player.
Well said!!!!
@@mauricethompson1765bringing a Championship to every Franchise you play for Lebron did that against 20+ All Stars. To win one Championship is really hard but to do it with 3 different Organizations has NEVER been done before. Then for a pass first player he sits alone at number 1 with the most points. He will mostly likely retire in the Top 5 in almost every category. 40k pts, 10k rbs, 10k ast 5k stls etc!
@@kaylonromeyeah he joined another superstar
The way defense was played back in the MJ era was rough as hell. Cinderellas play the game today. Everyone today wanted to play like Mike. Remember that
MJ played in an era when you had to bust your ass to make that basket. Defenders were allowed to get in your face and make you work for it. Modern NBA hands out defensive fouls like candy at a parade, if a defender so much as looks at you cross-eyed you get to step up the line for your easy 2 points.
Imagine LeBron vs Laimbeer, McDyess or Olujawan...yes he could gave handled it but it sure would have slowed him down a lot.
In the nineties, a snail like Dončić would have scored 8 ppg.
Soft. I could use more colorful language but SOFT is the best adjective I can use in a single word. I can't watch this nonsense these days where carries are so blatant that they are encouraged into the youth watching bullshit. Travels not being called on pretty much every play. It's pathetic.
If lebron played in the 90s, he would retire at age 30 😅
Jordan was unguardable and could create his own shot off the dribble at will. He also led the league in scoring many times without needing to rely on the three point line. He was a relentless killer on the court who would let you know that he was going to score 50 points on you and ended up scoring 50 points. People respect Lebron's game, but the feared Jordans. To those who say that era was wek, I encourage you to watch some highlight videos of 90s physical basketball...witness the NBA and how it was played while you were in your crib.
Bron just needs to fade away into obscurity
People forget that MJ was killing from day one as a rookie leading the league in scoring. Not to mention the first player to win defensive player of the year and mvp with a scoring title. 🐐 enough said
But it took Magic and Bird to teach him that individual performance doesn't win titles. Teamwork wins titles. When Michael dropped 60 on Boston in the playoffs and he still lost, he finally started getting the picture.
LeBron was killing from day one straight outta HS
@@PeezyRich it's not how you start, but it's how you finish.
@@PeezyRich And yet failed to even take the Cavs to the PLAYOFF for 2 straight years while Jordan at least take to Bulls to the playoffs every season he is in the Bulls.
Jordan went to college , took seasons off to play baseball , and still did what he did minus those seasons .🐐
THIS EXACTLY. Plus a broken foot in 86 i believe. So that's 5+ seasons he missed where he could've put up more numbers.
Yup, plus the 3 years off before returning in 2001-2002 and 2002-2003 seasons. @@SuperSalad7
Kyrie Irving brought that Championship to Cleveland!! Kyrie wasn’t thinking about giving that ball to Lebron AND LEBRON WASN’T LOOKING FOR THAT BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!
The fact that people pass over Kobe & Duncan is nuts....5 championships on 1 team... Jordan 6 in one team. Bill Russell 11 in one team....Magic 5 chips one team...
Im gonna be honest, I completely lost interest in basketball when Jordan retired. And to be even more honest, my loss of interest started when he left the Bulls, but he was still my guy so I held on until he called it quits. He's an inspiration both on the court and off.
You are old we get it.
@@vuksgitau You are a jack-ass, we get it.
@@vuksgitau 48yrs this month and can run circles around you.
To be fair, the NBA was still an excellent league after MJ left. There were still a ton of superstars and amazing teams. Shaq and Kobe on the Lakers, KG in Minnesota, Duncan and Robinson in San Antonio, J-Kidd and K-Mart in New Jersey, AI in Philly, Dirk and Nash in Dallas, T-Mac in Orlando, Stockton and Malone in Utah, and Billups and Big Ben in Detroit. The early 2010s was when it all started to fade.
I watched Mj, Kobe and Lebron all these decades. Anyone who says Lebron is the new GOAT simply do not understand basketball. I am not even sure if Lebron would win a chip if MJ plays in this era. He doesn‘t need 20 years to win 6. That‘s how great he is. If MJ and Lebron played in the same team, Lebron would be like Mj‘s modern Pippen.
the last 5 MVPs are non US players, this would have been unthinkable un Jordan's era, and this means that his ear was weaker, which is logical, because he influenced a lot of kids all over the world.
Bro you are smoking something if you don’t think lebron on the bulls place of Jordan he would have won 6 rings no problem lol
Most never beaten Bird and the other teams he beat in the Finals were Trash compared to Spurs Warriors even that Mavs team! Cmon
Ok bro 100% you put lebron on those bulls teams in place of Jordan he’s winning all 6 no problem best coach in the league best rebounder best defender come on bro who’s stopping a guy bigger and stronger and probably faster than Jordan and is a way better passer let me see how many of those 6 Jordan wins if pippen gets hurt in the 2nd round it’s a team sport Jordan was getting waxed by the Celtics and pistons till they got that team assembled
@@KingN82602No they weren’t. Phoenix was great. So was the Blazers and those Utah teams. The Pacers and the Knicks were great too. Both teams probably would have won a chip if Jordan wasn’t in the way.
One of the most important things that's never mentioned about MJ when he was winning titles, is he was NEVER even in a game 7 in the Finals. He wouldn't allow it. Once he had you, he put you Away. No other NBA great can say that. That's 6 NBA Finals that he Never got to a game 7. All over in 6 games or less
Michael Jordan is in fact the greatest professional BasketBall of all time. Dennis Rodman is in fact number 1 best power forward of all time. Dennis Rodman was a great ball handler and great passer and great rebounder and great defender..
I think time periods are relevant here as well. A solid, and arguably more dominant, stretch of MJs career came before things like social media and widely used internet. People all over the world knew him anyway and stopped what they were doing to catch the game live on tv on the one channel it was on. He was a worldwide household name simply by word of mouth, and was solely based on his talent. There was no social media to focus on his material assets like cars, jewelry, or what outrageous outfit he was wearing to the game. He earned his attention on the court, during the game.
Your last sentence is actually a sound argument.
I think time periods are irrelevant because there are to many intangible factors to consider. Like how the game was played, who was in it at the time, medical advancement and recovery time. The factors can continue forever. Impact and accomplishments are two factors that can span across time. How much did they accomplish and in their respective eras how much impact did they have on the game. This guy highlighted it perfectly. Culturally Michael Jordan is still the Goat and based off of accomplishments he still reigns supreme. Bill Russel argument for accomplishment is strong but his cultural impact will never outshine Jordan.
Jordan played in a weaker era, where all the non US kids he influenced all over the world were not yet winning 5 straight MVPs.
@@mirak63no one thinks that
@@mirak63Tell me you weren’t around or old enough to have watched basketball in the 80s and 90s without telling me.
Even Rich Paul rolled his eyes and shook his head when Lebron made that statement.
I thought I was tripping 🤣🤣🤣.
no one else n the room said a word when u said that
The best player ever, is probably the best player on the team that three-peated twice. I'm from KC and back to back chips are 20 years to come by in the NFL. Doesn't happen often in the NBA either. Three-peats are unheard of. Jordan came back and won a second just for fun. Not a debate.
It isn't really controversial. Only media and social media personalities force it. Because every legitimate survey out there has MJ as the best ever by an overwhelming margin. Even among current and past NBA players - AND IT AIN'T EVEN CLOSE. It's just that the people behind the Lebron narrative are really loud and obnoxious hence this seems like a legit debate.
I'm 41 yo in 2023
I grew up in the 80s & 90s
In an era with no social media
Yet MJJ's aura spread to my side of the world (Ghana, West Africa). Watched him on TV in the Olympic Games at Barcelona 92 and in Space Jam on Cartoon Network. MJ & Messi have so many things in common (freak of nature and attraction of unforced affection). LBJ is just like CR7 (self-indulgent dudes who crown themselves and forcibly project themselves on people's perceptions)
People underestimate the fact than MJ is 10 times max scorer a 3 times steal leader. This is priceless
Winning from 3-1 deficit made James the best??? Jordan never put his team in a 3-1 deficit so ????
This gives me shivers. Michael Jordan was superhuman. MVP for the season, MVP for the playoff finals, scoring leader for the season, scoring leader for the playoffs AND 1st teal Defensive Player--it's only been done 4 times in the history of the NBA by these men: Jordan, Jordan, Jordan, Jordan. Case closed.
I say MJ 100%…not only because of stats and ships…but look at how long he’s been retired and people are still buying his shoes and jerseys…that tells u how much of an impact he made on sports and how many people were brought to basketball either as players or fans because of him…
Buying his shoes doesn't make him a better player. I totally agree on Jordan being the goat but that was from what he did on the coart.
People really need to go back and watch MJ highlights and pay attention to the other team bench, and look at them being amazingly shocked at MJ talent
Jordan- A. Never went to a game 7 in the finals, B. Has seven of the top ten playoff series scoring averages of all time, singlehandedly (crazy) Lebron Kobe don't have one C. Won 6 championships D. 9 time 1st defense, an NBA record E. 10 scoring titles, a record ..... it's Jordan and it is not remotely close.
I remember watching MJ play when I was growing up. All I remember saying in my head was, “Are most of his opponents dumb or something.” He would make just about everyone look silly. LeBron is skilled and strong, but I cannot say the same for him.
"When you good at something, you'll tell everybody... when you are great at something, they will tell you." The real goat has never said he is the goat and that is Mike, no question about it and it is not even close. Lebron can thank whoever that he plays in todays era. Because I don't think he would have played that long in the physical era of Jordan, ranking up these cumulative numbers everybody is praising him for. I also think he would have lost the joy playing very quickly, because of the competetiveness back then. It was almost a battlefield out there and you had to be ready to get physically injured driving to the basket.
Michael Jeffrey Jordan is the undisputed G.O.A.T. of basketball. Lebron is not even in the same stratosphere.
i think you’re right however if you say that than basketball ended in 1998
Lebron James is not even in the top 10 greatest all time.
@@sealedindictment Not really. There are a lot of great players. Lebron is a great player. He's just not close to MJ.
@@carmelotansengco4605 exactly! so if the best player in basketball history “ended” his career in 1998 figuratively basketball ended
we haven’t seen a player like him since (his caliber of greatness) and most likely never will (excluding the carbon copy Kobe)
@@sealedindictment KOBE NEVER AFRAID TO GUARD BEST WINGS OR GUARDS. UNLIKE MJ WHO HIDE BEHIND PIPPEN DEFENSE. MY FAV QUOTE VS CROATIA : '' ME AND SCOTTIE DECIDED TO GUARD KUKOC '' !! U DERANGED WHY U DIDNT STOP HIM ALONE IF U R GREAT
Younger people see Jordan like I saw Jim Brown when I grew up in the Walter Payton, Barry Sanders eras. My old man said Jim Brown was better, but he was before my time, so I instinctively pick other running backs from my era and later eras like Adrian Peterson.
I think cases could be made for a whole slew of candidates; Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Kobe. Even Kobe or Bird. What is funny is MJ is not buying into any of it. He has never tooted his own horn like that.
We literally define excellence by his name.
MJ will always be the Michael Jordan of basketball.
Lamelo Ball is a better player than Mike. Stop playing.
@@corderomartin7959 no you stop 😂😂😂
Remember when lebron called his foot doctor “the lebron James of foot doctors”? My god, that was so pathetic. 😆
@@corderomartin7959 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
💀
@parkermudsen1063 right!??! 🤣
He's so cringe.
This is not even a debate Michael Jordan is not only the GOAT he is also the most recognized athlete of all time and what a mentality, he just had to win, what he did for Basketball and the NBA speaks for itself, he took it to heights it had never been before and let’s face it if he hadn’t retired could the Bulls have won 8 in a row?
Lol LBJ credited himself for the Cavs winning in 3-1 when Kyrie saves them with a dagger 3.
to come back from 3-1 u had to be down 3-1. how u down 3-1 when u say lebron > curry, kyrie > klay, love > draymond. what a joke lol
His airyness was goooood. He jumped hiiiiiiii with his airyness.
Leflop is the most delusional player in the nba.... Ever
That's one of the greatest Lines I've ever heard.
@@rustyshackelford4022 ONLY DELUSIONAL ARE DERANGED PPL WHO PRAISE BRADLEY BEAL.
He didn't even believe that bullshit he was saying 😂😂
@@wildinjun7686 YEP CAUSE HE KNOWS KOBE IS BETTER THAN BRON AND MJ BUT ALSO KNOWS WILT CHAMBERLAIN IS GOD
MICHAEL JORDAN IS THE PERFECT BLEND OF EVERY ATTRIBUTE YOU APPLY TO THE GREATEST FROM EACH GENERATION
HE IS NOT EVEN TIOPP 3000 IN BLOCKS REBOUNDS OR DIMES. GUY LIKE JOKIC 50X MORE VALUABLE THAN JORDAN BRADLEY BEAL FOR THE TEAM
@@PIP...33 Lmaooooo
How’s that Michael Jordan school for kids doing
@@PIP...33😅what bradley beal have you smoked?
And the perfect storm
Jordan is the only NBA Defensive Player of the Year recipient to have also won the scoring title in the same season, when he also became the only player to win the award while averaging over 30 points per game (35.0)
If Michael have chance to play our generation his moves always be in top 1 on top 10 highlights
MJ accomplished all that during the chin check era. Imagine if he had today's softer league rules back then?