What order would you put these consorts and why? Let me know below and remember you can also find me at: BUY MY BOOK (Find Your Irish Ancestors Online): amzn.to/3Z2ChnG Website (with 2 FREE DOWNLOADS): www.historycallingofficial.com/ Patreon: www.patreon.com/historycalling Amazon storefront: www.amazon.com/shop/historycalling Instagram: instagram.com/historycalling/
E. of York & C. of Aregaon def. 1 & 2. Anne of C for escaping the marriage and Catherin Parr for her patience, and quick wit. Anne B. failed. Yes, she married up,...BUT she should have realised that Henry's Queen (s)had to be submissive, TO focus on one thing and one thing only - a son..!! Not fly into rage over adultery or jousting accidents or flirt with male court members... giving him an excuse to fall out with her.. knowing Henry this was a no-brainer... separate subject the big what if re the Tudors....Arthur living and successfully producing heirs..??
Your ranking order of the 8 consorts is spot on, although I hate to admit it as poor little Katherine Howard was always my favourite from my early childhood. Don't ask me why, but she was. I always felt an empathy towards her. But yes, she unfortunately must rank bottom of the list for her disastrous queenship. Elizabeth of York, Katherine of Aragon, Katherine Parr and Anne of Cleves all cannot do much wrong as far as I'm concerned. All lovely, gentle, intelligent and dignified women. I never had much time for Anne Boleyn or Jane Seymour as I believe they were both too ambitious at the expense of others. Philip of Spain was cold and heartless towards Mary I, who genuinely loved him. I feel so sorry for her. I believe her pregnancy was a viable one but the foetus died within her around second trimester and wasn't properly expelled until it was the lump of flesh as described by the Ftench ambassador. She needed love and comfort from Philip after this, but he abandoned her leaving her to become deranged, fanatical and utterly depressed. Because of him she lost Calais which was the final nail in her coffin. I know she had so many people burned but I still have much sympathy for her.
God, I got emotional once I realized that Elizabeth of York was #1! It’s so lovely to have her recognized when she endured so much and is so often overshadowed by the consorts and drama that came after her. It’s like the true meaning of that quote, “Quiet women rarely make history.” So good to know her strength has not gone unrecognized by some historians even if the general population tends to gloss her over.
Thank you. She was an excellent consort. It's a tragedy that she died so young. She and Catherine of Aragon might have got along very nicely if they'd just had more of a chance.
I didn't even think of her!!! She was a lovely queen and wife for certain, and all she had been through she really deserved to be put in the throne and acknowledged as her father's heir, even if Henry VII's rule was by right of conquest. Her children loved her and it seems she did well to see to their education, she was fairly hands on for the time except for Arthur.
I don't think anyone else could be above her on the list. She was everything a queen should have been and seeing her getting recognition is satisfying ❤
Elizabeth of York and Katherine of Aragon, for me are way ahead of everyone else. Smart, intelligent, dedicated, resilient, capable....my list of attributes goes on. Thank you for another interesting podcast. 🎉
Let's face it. Only Elizabeth of York and Katherine of Aragon could only be the most logical top 2 of this list. They were both born and raised for the role of Queen; highly educated, pious, good pedigree, beloved by the English people, and performed the role of queen with honour, dignity, grace, and respect. They only differ because Elizabeth's birth record was a little better and was able to provide both the heir and a spare. Other than that, they were also great, loving mothers and adored by their children and maintained solid relationships with their husbands.
I would have been interested in that one too, but sadly this video isn't performing great so I suspect our shared love of ranking videos isn't shared by all :-(
She was certainly the luckiest. I suppose it depends how we judge intelligence. She didn't have the education of someone like Anne Boleyn, but that doesn't mean she wasn't smart of course.
No, Jane was. She had the decency to die right after giving Henry a son. Therefore, not lasting long enough for him to get tired of her and outlive her usefulness.
👏👏 Your decision to include Philip and Elizabeth of York provided more food for thought, HC. I tend to focus more on Henry's wives but the wider view is important to keep in mind. Definitely a fun watch! Thanks, HC. Good woman yourself. Have a great week. 🙏🏼
I too was going between Elizabeth of York and Katharine of Aragon. I have read books on both, and I think I would have liked them both. Katharine almost edges Elizabeth out for me. For all the reasons you gave and she just had grit and spunk (A term here in the South-Alabama.) She never faltered in her defense of their marriage and died with dignity. Both of these women were strong yet humble. I really enjoyed your topic. You’re the best HC! 😊
Thanks Amy. Yes, Catherine was a great consort too and it's a pity to have to judge her on her childbearing record, as it's obviously something she couldn't control. That's the 16th century for you though :-(
I won't quibble with your rankings because I think your reasoning has merit There's really no question that Elizabeth of York was the most successful Tudor queen I would only say in Katherine of Aragon's defense that she had to put up with Henry VIII's temper - arrogance - narcissism and especially infidelity for what appears to be almost the entirety of their marriage - 24 years! Even though it was expected - it had to be a special humiliation for her because she would know that the entire court was aware of it Since there is no evidence that Henry VII behaved in this way - it only became "expected" when Henry VIII started doing it! And YET she remained loyal and still professed love for him even until her death - long after he'd abandoned her Sometimes a person's greatness can only be measured by how often and in what manner they are tested IMHO Catherine exceeded the mark! Great video! Very thought provoking! Thank you!
Oh yes, CoA was great too and there was certainly a moment where I wondered if she should be first. She had a much more difficult husband to deal with than Elizabeth did and Henry really didn't deserve her.
I think your order of arrangements based on their contributions and success is pretty unbiased and objective too. I think I'd put them in that same order. You're spot on.
Thank you. It was tricky sometimes to decide where to put them and course other people will have different opinions on it, but I def. tried to me as objective as I could.
I can't argue with Elizabeth of York, although I always gravitate to Catherine of Aragon; both are amazing to me. I wanted to say thanks for addressing Phillip of Spain briefly - glad to see your perspective on him by including him too... even if staying alive and not being dumped boosted him. As always, a very interesting video!
Thank you. Yeah, I wanted to include Philip partly because he is of course a consort, partly because I don't talk about him that much and partly to throw the guys in my audience a bone in what is otherwise a rather 'girly' video :-)
Elizabeth of York's ranking genuinely made me emotional and happy. Her And Henry Vii rarely get the Love and attention that they deserve, especially considering just how good they were at being English Monarchs. My close runner up though besides her is Catherine of Aragon though. Great video!!!
Thank you dear HC. I enjoyed your video and your ranking. I certainly think it's not an easy task, but you did as always a great job. You are so considerate telling us why you decided like this, although in my opinion you don't need to. I respect your opinion and your view. Love everything about Tudors, so thank you 😊
Thank you so much for the donation Anita. I'm glad you enjoyed the ranking. It was indeed a little tricky to put them in order, especially the middle ones (the top and bottom couple weren't so bad).
Thank you. I always knew I wanted them at the top, but it was tricky for a moment deciding which order to put them in. Catherine was a great Queen too.
Katherine Howard was just, to put it plainly, too young. She was emotionally, psychologically and physically abused by every man who came into her life. The poor girl had no chance whatsoever.
And thank you so much for such a generous donation and such a nice message as well. I hope you enjoy the new video later today. We're heading into the Stuart era for it :-)
You have to admit History Calling if Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard had lived it would definitely been interesting how there lives would be as years progressed. I can imagine Anne Boleyn living in some kind of strict house arrest like Mary queen of Scots and Anne Boleyn health declining. Henry the 8 would probably put her in damp places I bet it would have affected her health. As, for Cathrine Howard she might have remained in the Tower of London thought her mental health would have declined because not long after Henry the 8 died in 1547 and she would have deffo outlived him and would have been out of Tower of London and probably living in some small cottage house in the country side. Anne Boleyn also would follow her in some small cottage house after Henry the 8 died.
@@edithengel2284 oh yeah just a what if unfortunately that is true but deffo would be interesting if Henry the 8 allowed to live what do you think there lives would have been like as the years progressed
@@raumaanking Not very pleasant, I suspect. Incarcerated, solitary, not allowed to marry or have a family. Had they survived Henry, I doubt Mary would have shown them mercy, remembering how Anne in particular had affected her mother.
@@edithengel2284 yeah true in my opinion I think Anne Boleyn would have been under house arrest I do think she probably would have outlived Henry the 8 due to the fact she herself her family the Boleyn’s mostly died in early or late 60s most of them. So, Anne Boleyn probably would have still been alive during Mary the 1 reign. I believe Mary the 1 would have straight away put Anne Boleyn in the Tower of London. However, when the Wyatts Rebellion happens Mary the 1 has some kind of link that might have had Anne Boleyn linked with it to have her daughter Elizabeth on the throne. So on May 19th 1554 Anne Boleyn is to be burnt at the stake the first Protestant while Elizabeth either is in the Tower of London or just got released from her prison. Infact having Anne Boleyn alive could make Elizabeth the 1 even closer to getting executed. As for Cathrine Howard she most likely would have definitely outlived Henry the 8 due to the fact she is young and the Howard’s had even long lives then the Boleyns dying in ages late 60s or early 70s. I think Cathrine Howard would have probably at the start had no problem with Mary the 1. However, a few months when Wyatts Rebellion happened. I believe she would have been searched if Anne of cleves was mentioned of favouriting Elizabeth. I am sure people would mention Cathrine Howard since she did prefer Elizabeth then Mary. Plus they were both related. So since there was no proof of any evidence that she was part of it and she was catholic she would be fine. However, in one of the late years maybe Mary the 1 might have sent Catherine Howard to the tower in her later reign like 1556 or 1557. I doubt Mary the 1 would kill her I guess it would depend on her mood if she were to be killed she would have gotten a simple beheading rather than being burnt like Anne Boleyn at the stake since she was catholic. However, if she was speared by Mary the 1 which is quite likely she would have outlived Anne of cleves making her the women who outlive all Haney the 8 wives. Plus she would be able to see how her stepdaughter/ness Elizabeth the 1 ruled England perhaps she might have some kind of happy ending maybe having her own household in the country by Elizabeth the 1. This is just a scenario what do you think of my scenario?
I haven't watched it yet, but I already know I'm going to love this video 😊 My vote for Catherine Parr: she was extremely smart, enough to be the first woman to publish under he own name in England (although being Queen Consort probably helps with that). But she was also wise enough to not stick her head too high above the parapit, and to know how to diffuse tension/a potential threat from the King. And she helped bring the Tudor princesses back into the fold and line of succession. That all said she also had the benefit of seeing and learning from her predecessors...
I hope you're still speaking to me at the end of this as (much as I love her) I didn't put her at number 1. You make a good point though that she had the advantage of seeing how the other 5 wives did and learning from their experiences.
When this video popped up i was so curious about your criteria. My knee jerk reaction was to think in terms of their personal successes over their entire lives, not just their tenure as consort. This makes much more sense!
@HistoryCalling No worries! Your videos were great while my wife and I were getting our (first) renaissance festival outfits ready. She was Anne of Cleves and I was Henry VIII, hopefully we didn't curse ourselves!
Oh that sounds amazing. I'm sure you both looked great and as long as you've been married more than 6 months, you've beaten Anne and Henry and I'm sure you're not cursed :-)
i agree with Elizabeth being number one. she was an amazing wife, devoted mother, she was an amazing queen and definitely ranks in my top 5 favorite historical figures 💕
Your list was perfect!!!!! I was worrying who was number one. I did a little fist pump and said “YES,” right out loud (a few stares ensued)! Elizabeth of York for the win! I have always admired her. She seemed like a gracious, level-headed woman, and for that sourpuss Henry Tudor to truly seem to love and admire her, she had to be pretty lovely! At first I was sad Anne of C. wasn’t higher, but by the set criteria she was placed properly! GREAT JOB!
My ranking before watching this 1 - Anne Boleyn 2 - Elizabeth of York 3 - Catherine of Aragon 4 - Catherine Parr 5 - Jane Seymour 6 - Philip of Spain 7 - Anne of Cleves 8 - Katherine Howard
@@HistoryCalling we agree on the rankings of number 8, 7 and 6, mostly concerning the adultery and beheadal of Katherine Howard, the short time that Anne of Cleves was queen, as well as the obviously not happy or successful marriage of Philip of Spain. where we differ is mostly our ranking of Anne Boleyn. Let me explain my ranking of Anne Boleyn. From the sources I have read, watched and listened to (you and others) Anne Boleyn was the queen who wanted to be with Henry the most fervently. Yes she was feisty, which back in the day was a no no. But even Catherine of Aragon did not fight as successfully or as sharply. Anne was the one to supplant the - in my opinion - most formidable of Henrys wives. And that makes her the best consort for me. The most successful, not in hindsight, but in deed. A warrior Queen at heart, as evidenced by her nature, her dedication to philanthropy and her constant striving to further the Tudor dynasty. Elizabeth of York and Catherine of Aragon were the best consorts for that time, the most like a Queen should be. But none of them managed to conquer the King. They simply were married. None of which makes them and their successes any less. They were survivors, gentle but strong. I want them to have more recognition for all they did. Jane Seymour and Catherine Parr come after Catherine of Aragon and Elizabeth of York for me. While Jane Seymour was the perfect Queen and gave birth to the next King, she did not reign as long or as well as Catherine Parr or indeed Catherine of Aragon. She died too early to be a big success and Henry did rebuff her attempt to "meddle" with the famous line of "remember Anne Boleyn". Not as successful a Queen as she could have been. More of an actual royal broodmare than those ranked above her (who at least had some impact on the rule of their King). Catherine Parr, while she did not deliver the King any children or indeed have any recorded pregnancies (that I know of) reigned for a very long time, was successful in both influencing Henry and keeping her head when he became suspicious. She survived him. She kept his kingdom safe while he was at war in France. She had a good relationship with his daughters. This makes her a very good consort, had she had children she would have ranked higher. SO: 1 - Anne Boleyn because of her success in rising to the place of consort, her passionate fight for Henry, her piety and philanthropy. Not even counting the fact that her marriage lead to the birth of Elizabeth I. 2 - Elizabeth of York for the length of her marriage, children, success, philanthropy, influence, piety and the fact that she spoiled the King for any other wife 3 - Catherine of Aragon for the length of her marriage, children, influence, belovedness, notable piety and the fight she put up against her divorce 4 - Catherine Parr because of her intellect, long and amiable marriage, mediation skills, the trust Henry placed in her and survival of him 5 - Jane Seymour for the birth of Henrys only male heir to survive until teenhood 6 - Philip of Spain for his lack of interest in anything english 7 - Anne of Cleves for her unsuccessful marriage 8 - Catherine Howard for her adultery, non-accomplishment and beheading 👑👑👑
I agree with your rankings. Well done! I was wondering if you would think about including a section in your newsletter highlighting a different primary source each issue.
Hmm, that's an interesting idea. I suppose the only drawback would be finding a way to show readers the source. Not all of them can be linked to and I can't put photos in the newsletter that would be big enough to read (if it was a letter or something else written). I'll think about it though. Maybe I could tweak the idea a little bit to make it work.
I would LOVE to know what happened to Mary Boleyn. Have you ever done a video on her? Who was she, when did she join H8’s court, when did they break up and why? Do we know how she felt about her sister being made Queen? What happened to her in the end? Did she outlive her brother, sister & all the other relatives of hers H8 killed?
I've watched, and in some cases re-watched, videos on all these people. It is gratifying to have some knowledge by which to participate in ranking the consorts. Your content makes one feel more intelligent, just by watching. Thank you!
Thanks Cindy and I think if you're someone who seeks out educational content on UA-cam and not just cat videos (not that there's anything wrong with cat videos - light entertainment is important too), you're already more intelligent that many others.
Before watching the Video, I would put Elisabeth of York on number 1# She gave her Husband two sons, was beloved by her family and the people (as much as I know) she basically was everything expected of a Wife and Queen back then
Thank you so much for this upload. I really like your channel, because even though I'm an American, l really love your history. My ranking is: Elizabeth the York ( she did all, and more), Anne Boleyn ( she gave to England Elizabeth I ), Ann of Cleves (besides keeping her head in place, she was smart enough not to offend Henry despite all the horrible comments he made about her, and she ended with palaces, allowances, palace's open doors and invitations, and after all that, she was respected as she were the King's sister), Jane Seymour( gave birth to his beloved son), Catherine Parr (was a good Stepmom and united the family), Catherine of Aragon ( I gave her this rank, because she was not a very strong Queen, perhaps because her strong Catholic faith, I think she felt superior, and left all her marital battles to be fought by the Pope and her Spanish cousin), and finally; Catherine Howard ( I feel pity for her for being raised in such dysfunctional family, but she made bad judgements, and at the end was betrayed by everyone).
Thank you for your reply, and I think that even Catherine of Aragon would have fought for her marriage; I think Henry VIII made his mind of divorcing her, even before he met Anne Boleyn.
Another interesting video HC. I do so agree with most of your listings. The only ones I would change would be Philip and Anne of Cleves. Looking forward to next week.
Thanks Vernon. Yes, it's all subjective of course and just a bit of fun. You could certainly make a good argument for switching some of them around :-)
Before hearing your list, here's mine: 8: Catherine Howard (sadly, she has nothing to stand on) 7. Phillip. Bad match for him. It gained him little more power, and weakened him in some ways, possibly hastened Mary's death bc of her constant anxiety. 6. Anne of Cleves, although I believe she tried hard and wasn't as unattractive as made out 5. Ann Boelyn. She's a favorite of mine, but well, what can you say. 4. Catherine of Aragon. Would've been great, but caused the court and her daughter many problems by not playing the game better. 3. Elizabeth of York, near perfect. 2. Catherine Parr helped him ultimately, and managed to survive. 1. Jane Seymour.
This was fun. Your thinking was interesting, and really my only quibble would be the King of Spain. He let poor Mary down so badly, not to speak of Calais, that I would say it drops him to the bottom of the list. I’d have put Seymour above Parr simply because of Edward. Today. As you say, tomorrow I might have different opinions. Thanks for this.
Like I did with the Tudor Monarch rankings video, I'll give my rankings before I listen/before knowing what criteria you used. From best to worst: 1. Katherine of Aragon 2. Elizabeth of York ^ to me, this is the top two and it's not even close, regardless of order 3. Jane Seymour 4. Anne Boleyn 5. Katherine Parr (I debated putting her ahead of Anne but didn't, not because Anne had a child, but because of who Anne's child was) 6. Philip of Spain 7. Anne of Cleves 8. Katherine Howard Looking forward to watching! We had similar but not completely identical rankings in the monarchs video.
My first reaction was to put Phillip last. But after watching the video I can't disagree with the order you placed them in. I agree with your reasoning and thought your choices reflected well thought out reasons. Very enjoyable video ❤
I didn’t try to rank all the spouses, but I chose the same top three in the order you placed them. Unquestionably they did what was expected of them. Elizabeth of York, as mother of a king and two queens, was clearly the best of all.
Yes, it's a pity though that we have to judge them at all on their childbearing record, as it's obviously something they couldn't control. That's the 16th century for you though :-(
Hi HC 👋, I knew as soon as you mentioned Elizabeth of York was in the list I knew she'd be #1. Great video. I've often thought if she'd not died so young, if thungs eould of turned out differently with Henry VIII.
I largely agree with your assessment! One might consider Catherine Howard’s sympathy towards Margaret Pole a charitable act when she sent furs to her while freezing imprisoned in the Tower.
Yes, poor Katherine was a kind hearted soul I think. What Henry (and many of the other men in her life) did to her was shameful, even if I think there came a point when she herself should have known better.
Thanks v much HC 🖤🧡 Love these fun ranking videos. You could go around in circles for ages arguing who should place where but you gave us a nice short and sweet list. Just a bit of fun ☺️ I largely agree with your rankings, very sound and logical reasonings 👏 My own list would be quite similar. No surprise poor Catherine Howard landed in the bottom while Elizabeth of York topped the list. As much as I love Anne Boleyn, I too would've ranked her low enough on the list. Not really a successful or well liked Consort. I half expected Jane Seymour to take the bronze medal as number 3 rather than Catherine Parr as Jane reminds me of Elizabeth of York in ways and I'm sure Henry saw that too.
Thanks Shane. It was tricky to rank the middle ones like Jane and CP. It's all just opinion of course. There are sound arguments for switching them around in the way that you suggest.
I kind of giggled when I saw this title!!!! Before watching, my "most successful" list, as in those that personally made out the best, is going to be Anne of Cleaves, Catherine Parr, Katherine of Aragon, Anne, Jane Seymour, Phillip, and then Katherine Howard. For best Queen/Consort, Katherine of Aragon, Catherine Parr, Anne, Jane Seymour (for male heir and helping to repair the royal family if nothing else), Phillip, Anne of Cleaves, and then Katherine Howard. Phillip gets demerits for kind of using England AND Mary, but the alliance with Spain wasn't a terrible idea at the time and kept the two nations from being at war for sure. And he did somewhat protect the legal heir Elizabeth, SORT OF-so we can argue he had an eye to keeping the succession smooth and civil war free? I remember he and Mary almost married her off to a cousin of his or something, I'm not sure -I half wonder if it didn't happen in case Mary might die and he needed to marry her.
Yes, if we were ranking them by general good fortune and a long life my list would resemble yours, though with Philip higher up. He did indeed protect Elizabeth to a degree. I suppose we'll never know all his motives, but the idea that he was already thinking of marrying her is certainly interesting. Yes, there was a plan at one point to marry her off to a Hapsburg.
@@HistoryCalling I think Phillip might go before Anne Boleyn now that you mention it-he didn't suffer due to his marriage really, I just wasn't sure what he ultimately received for the trouble exactly. Where as Anne benefited and was greatly elevated during her and Henry's courtship and marriage far more than Phillip was, he really didn't have anywhere upwards to go given who he was the son of and what he was already heir to! Same time, he didn't lose anything either-least of all his head!
I agree with your ranking, except that I would place Katherine Howard above Anne of Cleves. Henry did at least fall in love with Katherine, and she gave him happiness for a few months, but he disliked Anne of Cleves from the start; she was never really given the chance to be a consort.
@@HistoryCalling 8. Phillip Of Spain 7. Katherine Howard 6. Anne Of Cleves 5. Catherine Parr. 4. Anne Boleyn 3. Jane Seymour. 2. Catherine Of Aragon 1. Elizabeth Of York
Jane only helped Mary get back into Henry's good graces. She wasn't interested in Elizabeth's well being. Lady Bryan had to write Cromwell for Elizabeth's needs. Catherine Parr treated both Mary and Elizabeth equally. Catherine was also responsible for getting both princesses back in the Line of Succession.
Jane wasn't too bad to Elizabeth actually. The little girl did come to court during Jane's tenure for instance and was present at Prince Edward's christening. I suppose in the immediate wake of Anne Boleyn's death it would have looked odd to be fawning over her daughter though and Mary was a grown up and in more immediate need of assistance given her poor relationship with Henry. By the time Catherine Parr was Queen, Elizabeth was much older and could be written to and write back and Catherine could oversee her education. That wasn't really an option for Jane who was dealing with a toddler living away from court.
@@HistoryCallingHenry had Elizabeth come to court for Edward’s christening as a political move, not because Jane wanted her there. It is no surprise he had Thomas Boleyn bring Elizabeth to that christening, Henry wanted to hurt Anne’s family even after her execution. While Jane favored Mary, she did not favor Elizabeth.
I agree in many ways. My ranking, Elizabeth of York, Catherine of Aragon, Catherine Parr, Jane Seymour, Anne Boleyn, Catherine Howard, Anne of Cleves and last Philip
Ahh, now it's interesting that you put Katherine Howard a couple of spots higher. I think we have slightly different criteria (which is totally fine of course).
I think that the bottom three are the hardest to decide. None of the marriages were succesful, but I would agrue that the marriage of Mary and Philip was the most damaging to England. And that he did not even want to be in England for the most time.
Thank you :-) It's all personal preference of course. You could choose different criteria if you wanted and get a totally different, but equally valid list.
I absolutely agree that Elisabeth of York should be at first place and Catherine of Aragon at second place for all the reasons xou mentioned in the video. I propose Anne of Cleves for the third place because she was kind, intelligent (despite of her lack of education) and had obviously good diplomatic skills Otherwise she wouldn't have managed to get out of the marriage with Henry VIII alive and as a wealthy woman. She had a good relationship with Henry's daughters and was loved and respected by the people. I am quite sure that she would have been a good queen, too, if she had the opportunity. Therefore she is my third place.
Oh if we were just talking about whether these people were lucky, savvy and nice people Anne of Cleves would certainly be higher. She's only this low because I was thinking strictly about how successful they all were at the 'job' of being a consort.
I would agree with your list. The top 3 really stand head and shoulders above the others. Anne of Cleves, Katherine Howard and Jane Seymour hardly had the chance to shine in the role. In some ways even a bit harsh to have them on the list. My favourite of them is Elizabeth of York she seemed to more completely embody the role than did the others. Katherine of Aragon was only ever guilty of not producing a male heir, hardly her fault and Catherine Parr negotiated the turbulent period at the end of Henry’s reign and beginning of Edward’s without suffering any consequences. Given enough time in the role she could have been the best of the group.
I think Jane Seymour could be higher on the list - she had many of the qualities attributed to Catherine of Aragon; she was pious, gentle, shrewd and dedicated. She gained Henry's forgiveness when she upset him and she bravely fought for the rights of Henry's children (Mary and Elizabeth), even though they weren't her own. Then, she bore Henry his only legitimate son. True, that wasn't something she could control and she didn't have a long queenship, but it was undeniably successful... Personally, I would place her in second position, behind Elizabeth of York, but before Catherine of Aragon.
I initially had everyone the same as you other than Catherine of Aragon and Catherine Parr (because Parr outlived Henry/he didn't reject her and for uniting his children). But hearing your reasoning, I was easily swayed to flip them.
@@HistoryCallingI think I agree. And I thought the ranking you presented was logical given the time period. I don’t think I would have ranked them any differently.
I feel like Henry VII had the most loving and respectful relationship with his wife too. I do wonder if their relationship would have been the same if she hadn't been able to provide and living sons though.
Yes, they seem to have really made the best of their arranged match. He's very unusual in that we don't hear of any royal mistresses with him. I wonder too what would have happened if she hadn't produced a boy. It would have been a disaster.
I think much of the reason for their love for one another was that because both their early lives had so much chaos and upheaval, they provided a safe haven for one another and a happy, secure family life.
oooh I love rankings so this ought to be fun! For me the ranking would go, from favourite to least favourite (and this does include personality for me): 1. Katherine of Aragon. I just love this woman and admire her so much: she was a great consort in everything but having a male heir. Her advocacy for female education so she could properly educate Princess Mary made for a generation of more educated women than before (and certain girls and women in Tudor History we praise for their academic accomplishments wouldn’t have done so without Katherine advocating for it). The battle of Flodden was another great moment, and she was not just badass, she was charitable and kind. I could go on for longer lol but youtube probably has a word limit on this and this is only the first place lol. 2. Elizabeth of York. I don’t feel as strongly about her as I do about some others, but I definitely see her as a highly successful consort. 3. Jane Seymour. I think her efforts to reconcile Henry to his daughters were important, and ofc, she had a son. I also don’t dislike her, so personality doesn’t push her down for me. 4. Katherine Parr. I agree w you that she wasn’t expected to have children, which is why she is not lower, and, much as Jane, her efforts of reconciling the family were commendable and successful. She and Jane are interchangeable for me, maybe tomorrow they’ll switch places lol, who knows. 5. Anne of Cleves- complete personality bias here, I just can’t bring myself to put her lower than any of the others. Objectively she’d be lower, but since I’m taking personality into account, she gets bumped up a spot. 6. eeeergh it hets hard now😭 Philip of Spain? I guess😭 I rly hate this man. Objectively, he’d be higher than Anne of Cleves, but I can’t do that w how bad a person he was. 7. Katherine Howard. She was unfortunately a failure as a consort😭 I wish I could put her higher, but all you said in her section is true. Her kindness at times makes me put her just the tiniest bit above last place. 8. Yeah, I’m putting Anne Boleyn last. Not only do I loathe her (atp I’ve stopped learning about her bc the more I do the more I dislike her- even content which is supposed to be pro Anne makes me dislike her-) but so did England. She was highly unpopular and her rise led to the death of many (some of which’s deaths she argued for herself). She was not an innocent agent in the late 1520s and early 1530s, and England was torn apart. Is this solely her fault? Obviously not, Henry was terrible, but so was she, and I consider them a match made south of h*ll (idk what youtube will block out so I’m playing safe lol) because of that. Aight so sorry for this huge rant, but I rly liked the video :) (it took me so long to write I watched it all and had some silent time after lmao)
This is a great video and a fantastic topic for debate with my friends who love history. I feel so bad for Catherine of Aragon. As you say, the 2 areas where she fell flat as queen were not her fault at all
Absolutely. She wouldn't be judged on childbearing in this day and age (and more of her children would probably have lived as well with modern medicine).
Only considering the wives of Henry VIII, I would place Catherine of Aragon to be first because she was groomed to be a monach because her mother was Queen Isabella and father was King Ferdinand of Spain. She was smart, brave and fought as a soldier while Henry was away. He trusted her to be Regent. Second, I would pick Anne of Cleves, who chose to stay in England and be valued as Henry’s “ sister.” She fared better at this than being his wife. Third, I pick Catherine Parr. Being the step-mom for 3 of Henry’s children of varying opinions and beliefs was no easy task. For the time they spent with her, it was unifying. So that’s my take.
I gasp when I see Anne Boleyn in four place 🫣🫣 but it's a very objective list and for a moment I forgot that this was a Tudor's consort list and not only Henry VIII's wifes. Of course Elizabeth would be the number one and Catherine of Aragon have 20 years or so of successful queenship. I think their sons would have lived she definitely would have stayed on her throne. Very entertaining video 🥰 now I'm curious who are your favorite consorts in the whole history of the England/Great Britain/UK
Yes, I think if Catherine's sons had lived (even one of them) she'd have been no. 1. Hmm, I haven't looked at all the consorts since 1066, so I don't think I can properly answer that. I like Caroline of Brunswick though and Prince Philip (Duke of Edinburgh, not King of Spain). Margaret of Anjou is vastly under-rated I think. She was a heck of a fighter and of course I have a soft spot for Elizabeth of York, Catherine of Aragon and Catherine Parr. Anne Boleyn is fascinating, but not a great consort on the whole when compared to all consorts throughout history (though she was one of the most influential in the long term). I don't know enough about the Scots to comment on their Queens and I'm not a fan of Mary, Queen of Scots' husbands.
@@HistoryCalling thank you for you answer:) I really love you vídeo about Margaret of Anjou, she was so fascinating. Right now I don't remember who Caroline was, I will check out. Thank you once again (^^)
Catherine Parr might (arguably) lose half a point for marrying a super-creep after Henry (who was, granted, a super creep as well), but other than that, she and Catherine of Aragon and Elizabeth of York were pretty flawless women in the role, to our knowledge. Give E of Y a point for being in a loving and faithful marriage, but then deduct one for being the mother of a super creep, and we're back where we started.
I suppose we have to say though that Catherine's fourth marriage doesn't count towards her performance as Queen and poor Elizabeth shouldn't be held accountable for her son's actions. Catherine of Aragon was mother to a killer after all and so were Anne Boleyn and Jane Seymour.
@HistoryCalling I agree with you, especially since Elizabeth died when Henry was a boy of 10 and so couldn't advise him otherwise when he was making those terrible decisions.
@@person650 Historians say that Elizabeth of York pretty much hand raised Henry. Even their handwriting was very similar, so that indicates how close they were. She could raise him personally because Henry was the "spare," and Arthur was off learning how to be the next king. By the way, psychologists say that a child's character is formed by the time the child is 5 years old. Arthur died when Henry was almost 11 years old, so Henry's character was formed while he was still in his mother's care.
@@person650 I was being facetious; I would never- well, very seldom- hold a parent accountable for the actions or character of their child. But I never lose a chance to get a shot in on Henry!
Aughh! My knickers are in a twist! I can't decide! There are 2 ways to look at this: Who is MY favorite vs. who was the REGENT'S favorite? My opinion of my favorite Tudor consort is, frankly, no more material than anyone else's, so I prefer to look at the other criteria. So who was the regent's favorite consort? That question can be answered by asking a more important question: With whom did the particular reigning monarch choose to spend eternity beside? The only answers, then, are Elizabeth of York, Henry VII's wife, and Jane Seymour, Henry VIII's third wife. Unfortunately, Jane died before she could establish much of a reputation, and it's unfair to penalize her for that, especially since she died giving Henry the son that he wanted and needed. Jane was dutiful and obedient--qualities extremely valued and important back then. I agree with everything you said about Elizabeth of York, so, for me, the "favorite consort" title is a tie, and it's fortunate that England had both.
I feel like thats the only fair way to actually rank them because they werent working by our modern standards so why should they be judged by them? Obviously our modern senses does help us judge queens like Katherine Howard but in an objective standpoint looking at them as consorts, you can only judge them in their standards
@@agatha6999 Oh, I completely agree. I just find it fascinating how our perspectives have changed since then in what makes a monarch’s spouse “good.” It is crucial to remember when discussing characters in history we don’t forget they lived in their world, not ours, and cannot possibly compare them side-by-side to modern cultural norms. Even looking back only a few decades you realize, “Wow, this was a completely different world.”
@@HistoryCalling I really agree. Overall, like you said, she ticks all the right boxes. Her actions, character, and history still live up to a good ruler’s partner.
I suppose it depends on how you define ‘successful’, I’d be tempted to put Anne of Cleves close to the top, having craftily managed a quiet, reasonably contented life, avoiding being too much scathed by her association with Henry or the general political and social turbulence of the time.
I think I would place Anne of Cleve's last, if only because she did the least Queening. Poor K Howard's tenure was short but it was at least an actual tenure. Other than that, I agree with this ranking.
Seems like a good list. Henry ‘t eighth is an example of why it’s not good to have that much power. His poor wives all experienced joy then rejection until the last. Lack of scandals might be added to your criteria (if you exclude the false charges).
History Calling. The lady on the Tudor podcast made a video on the potential husbands for Elizabeth I. I was thinking, why didn’t they invite YOU ON ?!
@HistoryCalling would you do a ranking yourself of potential consort for Elizabeth. Or who would have been a good choice for Edward or a better choice for Mary.
Always Katherine of Aragon, Spanish princess was a great queen of England, loved by her subjects, and even managed a kingdom and a war while Henry was away. Wish he had known how lucky he was.
What order would you put these consorts and why? Let me know below and remember you can also find me at:
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E. of York & C. of Aregaon def. 1 & 2. Anne of C for escaping the marriage and Catherin Parr for her patience, and quick wit. Anne B. failed. Yes, she married up,...BUT she should have realised that Henry's Queen (s)had to be submissive, TO focus on one thing and one thing only - a son..!! Not fly into rage over adultery or jousting accidents or flirt with male court members... giving him an excuse to fall out with her.. knowing Henry this was a no-brainer...
separate subject the big what if re the Tudors....Arthur living and successfully producing heirs..??
Your ranking order of the 8 consorts is spot on, although I hate to admit it as poor little Katherine Howard was always my favourite from my early childhood. Don't ask me why, but she was. I always felt an empathy towards her. But yes, she unfortunately must rank bottom of the list for her disastrous queenship. Elizabeth of York, Katherine of Aragon, Katherine Parr and Anne of Cleves all cannot do much wrong as far as I'm concerned. All lovely, gentle, intelligent and dignified women. I never had much time for Anne Boleyn or Jane Seymour as I believe they were both too ambitious at the expense of others. Philip of Spain was cold and heartless towards Mary I, who genuinely loved him. I feel so sorry for her. I believe her pregnancy was a viable one but the foetus died within her around second trimester and wasn't properly expelled until it was the lump of flesh as described by the Ftench ambassador. She needed love and comfort from Philip after this, but he abandoned her leaving her to become deranged, fanatical and utterly depressed. Because of him she lost Calais which was the final nail in her coffin. I know she had so many people burned but I still have much sympathy for her.
Your ranking was spot-on! Thank you for an interesting discussion of the consorts.
Way too complicated...they're all a load of
On the criteria you set, I have to concur with you on your list HC, if I was doing a list of Henry's wife's my list would be different.
God, I got emotional once I realized that Elizabeth of York was #1!
It’s so lovely to have her recognized when she endured so much and is so often overshadowed by the consorts and drama that came after her. It’s like the true meaning of that quote, “Quiet women rarely make history.” So good to know her strength has not gone unrecognized by some historians even if the general population tends to gloss her over.
Thank you. She was an excellent consort. It's a tragedy that she died so young. She and Catherine of Aragon might have got along very nicely if they'd just had more of a chance.
Couldn’t have said it better! ♥️♥️♥️
I didn't even think of her!!! She was a lovely queen and wife for certain, and all she had been through she really deserved to be put in the throne and acknowledged as her father's heir, even if Henry VII's rule was by right of conquest.
Her children loved her and it seems she did well to see to their education, she was fairly hands on for the time except for Arthur.
Queen Elizabeth of York is definitely my number 1 Tudor Consort. I visited her and her husband's tomb last year. Magnificent looking.
I don't think anyone else could be above her on the list. She was everything a queen should have been and seeing her getting recognition is satisfying ❤
Elizabeth of York and Katherine of Aragon, for me are way ahead of everyone else. Smart, intelligent, dedicated, resilient, capable....my list of attributes goes on. Thank you for another interesting podcast. 🎉
Thank you. Yes, as I'm sure you know by now, I liked those two the best as well for this kind of ranking.
I absolutely agree!
That's so true!
Let's face it. Only Elizabeth of York and Katherine of Aragon could only be the most logical top 2 of this list. They were both born and raised for the role of Queen; highly educated, pious, good pedigree, beloved by the English people, and performed the role of queen with honour, dignity, grace, and respect. They only differ because Elizabeth's birth record was a little better and was able to provide both the heir and a spare. Other than that, they were also great, loving mothers and adored by their children and maintained solid relationships with their husbands.
I think you're gonna be happy enough with my rankings :-)
@@HistoryCalling Oh good because I'm only halfway through right now 😅
That was very fun. I would like to see a video ranking the queen consorts from throughout the Wars of the Roses.
I support this suggestion 😁!
I would have been interested in that one too, but sadly this video isn't performing great so I suspect our shared love of ranking videos isn't shared by all :-(
Anne of Cleves seemed to be the smartest one
She was certainly the luckiest. I suppose it depends how we judge intelligence. She didn't have the education of someone like Anne Boleyn, but that doesn't mean she wasn't smart of course.
I feel like it was more luck than anything.
I think she had a more pliant disposition than, for example, Anne Boleyn, and that helped her enormously.
Luck, good counsel, the wits to listen to said counsel...I think it all came together
No, Jane was. She had the decency to die right after giving Henry a son. Therefore, not lasting long enough for him to get tired of her and outlive her usefulness.
👏👏 Your decision to include Philip and Elizabeth of York provided more food for thought, HC. I tend to focus more on Henry's wives but the wider view is important to keep in mind. Definitely a fun watch! Thanks, HC. Good woman yourself. Have a great week. 🙏🏼
Thank you. Yes, I wanted something a bit wider than just the six wives and Philip in particular doesn't get considered very often.
@@stephencarrillo5905 It was always going to be Eliza York. Without her, there would have been no genuine Tudorlings!
I too was going between Elizabeth of York and Katharine of Aragon. I have read books on both, and I think I would have liked them both. Katharine almost edges Elizabeth out for me. For all the reasons you gave and she just had grit and spunk (A term here in the South-Alabama.) She never faltered in her defense of their marriage and died with dignity. Both of these women were strong yet humble. I really enjoyed your topic. You’re the best HC! 😊
Thanks Amy. Yes, Catherine was a great consort too and it's a pity to have to judge her on her childbearing record, as it's obviously something she couldn't control. That's the 16th century for you though :-(
When I first heard your choices I did not agree, but listening your reasoning I agree with your choices. Keep up the good work!!
Thank you :-) Will do.
I won't quibble with your rankings because I think your reasoning has merit There's really no question that Elizabeth of York was the most successful Tudor queen I would only say in Katherine of Aragon's defense that she had to put up with Henry VIII's temper - arrogance - narcissism and especially infidelity for what appears to be almost the entirety of their marriage - 24 years! Even though it was expected - it had to be a special humiliation for her because she would know that the entire court was aware of it Since there is no evidence that Henry VII behaved in this way - it only became "expected" when Henry VIII started doing it! And YET she remained loyal and still professed love for him even until her death - long after he'd abandoned her Sometimes a person's greatness can only be measured by how often and in what manner they are tested IMHO Catherine exceeded the mark! Great video! Very thought provoking! Thank you!
Oh yes, CoA was great too and there was certainly a moment where I wondered if she should be first. She had a much more difficult husband to deal with than Elizabeth did and Henry really didn't deserve her.
I think your order of arrangements based on their contributions and success is pretty unbiased and objective too. I think I'd put them in that same order. You're spot on.
Thank you. It was tricky sometimes to decide where to put them and course other people will have different opinions on it, but I def. tried to me as objective as I could.
agree totally with your list's order, especially Elizabeth of York as #1
Thank you. Yes, it's a shame she's so often overshadowed by her daughters-in-law.
I can't argue with Elizabeth of York, although I always gravitate to Catherine of Aragon; both are amazing to me. I wanted to say thanks for addressing Phillip of Spain briefly - glad to see your perspective on him by including him too... even if staying alive and not being dumped boosted him. As always, a very interesting video!
Thank you. Yeah, I wanted to include Philip partly because he is of course a consort, partly because I don't talk about him that much and partly to throw the guys in my audience a bone in what is otherwise a rather 'girly' video :-)
Elizabeth of York's ranking genuinely made me emotional and happy. Her And Henry Vii rarely get the Love and attention that they deserve, especially considering just how good they were at being English Monarchs. My close runner up though besides her is Catherine of Aragon though. Great video!!!
Good and thank you. Yes, she gets overlooked but she was a very good consort.
Losing Elizabeth killed Henry VII. Ill never believe they were not in love and were perfect for each other.
Yes, I think they ended up in love too (which is lovely - no pun intended - for an arranged marriage of that era).
Thank you dear HC. I enjoyed your video and your ranking. I certainly think it's not an easy task, but you did as always a great job. You are so considerate telling us why you decided like this, although in my opinion you don't need to. I respect your opinion and your view. Love everything about Tudors, so thank you 😊
Thank you so much for the donation Anita. I'm glad you enjoyed the ranking. It was indeed a little tricky to put them in order, especially the middle ones (the top and bottom couple weren't so bad).
Honestly, I think I agree with your list in this video. I was very happy with where you placed Catherine of Aragon and Elizabeth of York
Thank you. I always knew I wanted them at the top, but it was tricky for a moment deciding which order to put them in. Catherine was a great Queen too.
Good ranking. It's mighty hard to argue against the logic.
Thank you. :-)
Katherine Howard was just, to put it plainly, too young. She was emotionally, psychologically and physically abused by every man who came into her life. The poor girl had no chance whatsoever.
Really didn't help that no one bothered to explain common sense or remove her from the creepy men.
Yes, she never really stood a chance in that environment. Poor thing. I have great sympathy for her.
Katherine of aragon..she did the job...had the diplomatic relationships across Europe and the fearlessness of her mum!
Yes, it was tough to choose between her and Elizabeth. Both great women.
Thank you so very much for making these videos! The vast amount of work and effort you obviously put into the production is much appreciated ❤❤❤❤
And thank you so much for such a generous donation and such a nice message as well. I hope you enjoy the new video later today. We're heading into the Stuart era for it :-)
You have to admit History Calling if Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard had lived it would definitely been interesting how there lives would be as years progressed. I can imagine Anne Boleyn living in some kind of strict house arrest like Mary queen of Scots and Anne Boleyn health declining. Henry the 8 would probably put her in damp places I bet it would have affected her health. As, for Cathrine Howard she might have remained in the Tower of London thought her mental health would have declined because not long after Henry the 8 died in 1547 and she would have deffo outlived him and would have been out of Tower of London and probably living in some small cottage house in the country side. Anne Boleyn also would follow her in some small cottage house after Henry the 8 died.
Yes, perhaps.
He couldn't allow them to live, it's just not imaginable. Their continued existence would call any subsequent marriages and their issue into question.
@@edithengel2284 oh yeah just a what if unfortunately that is true but deffo would be interesting if Henry the 8 allowed to live what do you think there lives would have been like as the years progressed
@@raumaanking Not very pleasant, I suspect. Incarcerated, solitary, not allowed to marry or have a family. Had they survived Henry, I doubt Mary would have shown them mercy, remembering how Anne in particular had affected her mother.
@@edithengel2284 yeah true in my opinion I think Anne Boleyn would have been under house arrest I do think she probably would have outlived Henry the 8 due to the fact she herself her family the Boleyn’s mostly died in early or late 60s most of them. So, Anne Boleyn probably would have still been alive during Mary the 1 reign. I believe Mary the 1 would have straight away put Anne Boleyn in the Tower of London. However, when the Wyatts Rebellion happens Mary the 1 has some kind of link that might have had Anne Boleyn linked with it to have her daughter Elizabeth on the throne. So on May 19th 1554 Anne Boleyn is to be burnt at the stake the first Protestant while Elizabeth either is in the Tower of London or just got released from her prison. Infact having Anne Boleyn alive could make Elizabeth the 1 even closer to getting executed. As for Cathrine Howard she most likely would have definitely outlived Henry the 8 due to the fact she is young and the Howard’s had even long lives then the Boleyns dying in ages late 60s or early 70s. I think Cathrine Howard would have probably at the start had no problem with Mary the 1. However, a few months when Wyatts Rebellion happened. I believe she would have been searched if Anne of cleves was mentioned of favouriting Elizabeth. I am sure people would mention Cathrine Howard since she did prefer Elizabeth then Mary. Plus they were both related. So since there was no proof of any evidence that she was part of it and she was catholic she would be fine. However, in one of the late years maybe Mary the 1 might have sent Catherine Howard to the tower in her later reign like 1556 or 1557. I doubt Mary the 1 would kill her I guess it would depend on her mood if she were to be killed she would have gotten a simple beheading rather than being burnt like Anne Boleyn at the stake since she was catholic. However, if she was speared by Mary the 1 which is quite likely she would have outlived Anne of cleves making her the women who outlive all Haney the 8 wives. Plus she would be able to see how her stepdaughter/ness Elizabeth the 1 ruled England perhaps she might have some kind of happy ending maybe having her own household in the country by Elizabeth the 1. This is just a scenario what do you think of my scenario?
Your choices and the reasons for them are sound, and the video was very interesting!
Thank you very much :-)
Elizabeth of York is my favorite too ❤
You can always tell true love when a spouse dies and then other follows shortly after ❤
I haven't watched it yet, but I already know I'm going to love this video 😊 My vote for Catherine Parr: she was extremely smart, enough to be the first woman to publish under he own name in England (although being Queen Consort probably helps with that). But she was also wise enough to not stick her head too high above the parapit, and to know how to diffuse tension/a potential threat from the King. And she helped bring the Tudor princesses back into the fold and line of succession. That all said she also had the benefit of seeing and learning from her predecessors...
I hope you're still speaking to me at the end of this as (much as I love her) I didn't put her at number 1. You make a good point though that she had the advantage of seeing how the other 5 wives did and learning from their experiences.
I give Ms. Parr a black mark for not keeping her husband away from young Elizabeth.
Your rankings make perfect sense to me. Very interesting video - thank you, HC!!
When this video popped up i was so curious about your criteria. My knee jerk reaction was to think in terms of their personal successes over their entire lives, not just their tenure as consort. This makes much more sense!
You could certainly do a list looking at their whole lives though. My criteria are fairly arbitrary in some ways.
Great video as always.
Thank you so much for the donation Joe and I'm glad you enjoyed the video :-)
@HistoryCalling No worries! Your videos were great while my wife and I were getting our (first) renaissance festival outfits ready. She was Anne of Cleves and I was Henry VIII, hopefully we didn't curse ourselves!
Oh that sounds amazing. I'm sure you both looked great and as long as you've been married more than 6 months, you've beaten Anne and Henry and I'm sure you're not cursed :-)
@@HistoryCalling haha almost 2 years now!
i agree with Elizabeth being number one. she was an amazing wife, devoted mother, she was an amazing queen and definitely ranks in my top 5 favorite historical figures 💕
Yes, it's so sad that she died so young. She was very successful as consorts go.
Your list was perfect!!!!! I was worrying who was number one. I did a little fist pump and said “YES,” right out loud (a few stares ensued)! Elizabeth of York for the win! I have always admired her. She seemed like a gracious, level-headed woman, and for that sourpuss Henry Tudor to truly seem to love and admire her, she had to be pretty lovely! At first I was sad Anne of C. wasn’t higher, but by the set criteria she was placed properly! GREAT JOB!
My ranking before watching this
1 - Anne Boleyn
2 - Elizabeth of York
3 - Catherine of Aragon
4 - Catherine Parr
5 - Jane Seymour
6 - Philip of Spain
7 - Anne of Cleves
8 - Katherine Howard
Ahh, very interesting. You can let me know what you make of my ranking once you're done. It's a bit different.
@@HistoryCalling we agree on the rankings of number 8, 7 and 6, mostly concerning the adultery and beheadal of Katherine Howard, the short time that Anne of Cleves was queen, as well as the obviously not happy or successful marriage of Philip of Spain. where we differ is mostly our ranking of Anne Boleyn.
Let me explain my ranking of Anne Boleyn. From the sources I have read, watched and listened to (you and others) Anne Boleyn was the queen who wanted to be with Henry the most fervently. Yes she was feisty, which back in the day was a no no. But even Catherine of Aragon did not fight as successfully or as sharply. Anne was the one to supplant the - in my opinion - most formidable of Henrys wives. And that makes her the best consort for me. The most successful, not in hindsight, but in deed. A warrior Queen at heart, as evidenced by her nature, her dedication to philanthropy and her constant striving to further the Tudor dynasty.
Elizabeth of York and Catherine of Aragon were the best consorts for that time, the most like a Queen should be. But none of them managed to conquer the King. They simply were married. None of which makes them and their successes any less. They were survivors, gentle but strong. I want them to have more recognition for all they did.
Jane Seymour and Catherine Parr come after Catherine of Aragon and Elizabeth of York for me. While Jane Seymour was the perfect Queen and gave birth to the next King, she did not reign as long or as well as Catherine Parr or indeed Catherine of Aragon. She died too early to be a big success and Henry did rebuff her attempt to "meddle" with the famous line of "remember Anne Boleyn". Not as successful a Queen as she could have been. More of an actual royal broodmare than those ranked above her (who at least had some impact on the rule of their King).
Catherine Parr, while she did not deliver the King any children or indeed have any recorded pregnancies (that I know of) reigned for a very long time, was successful in both influencing Henry and keeping her head when he became suspicious. She survived him. She kept his kingdom safe while he was at war in France. She had a good relationship with his daughters. This makes her a very good consort, had she had children she would have ranked higher.
SO:
1 - Anne Boleyn because of her success in rising to the place of consort, her passionate fight for Henry, her piety and philanthropy. Not even counting the fact that her marriage lead to the birth of Elizabeth I.
2 - Elizabeth of York for the length of her marriage, children, success, philanthropy, influence, piety and the fact that she spoiled the King for any other wife
3 - Catherine of Aragon for the length of her marriage, children, influence, belovedness, notable piety and the fight she put up against her divorce
4 - Catherine Parr because of her intellect, long and amiable marriage, mediation skills, the trust Henry placed in her and survival of him
5 - Jane Seymour for the birth of Henrys only male heir to survive until teenhood
6 - Philip of Spain for his lack of interest in anything english
7 - Anne of Cleves for her unsuccessful marriage
8 - Catherine Howard for her adultery, non-accomplishment and beheading
👑👑👑
Catherine of Aragon was always my favorite and most respected of the Tudor Queens!
I do like her a lot myself. I seriously considered her for first place.
Outstanding work. Thank you so much.
You're very welcome. Glad you enjoyed it :-)
I agree with your rankings. Well done! I was wondering if you would think about including a section in your newsletter highlighting a different primary source each issue.
Hmm, that's an interesting idea. I suppose the only drawback would be finding a way to show readers the source. Not all of them can be linked to and I can't put photos in the newsletter that would be big enough to read (if it was a letter or something else written). I'll think about it though. Maybe I could tweak the idea a little bit to make it work.
Agreed, well said and convincing. (Interesting to ponder that England's greatest Queens were named "Elizabeth" and "Victoria".)
Yes, poor Anne and the Marys don't get much of a look in :-)
I would LOVE to know what happened to Mary Boleyn. Have you ever done a video on her? Who was she, when did she join H8’s court, when did they break up and why? Do we know how she felt about her sister being made Queen? What happened to her in the end? Did she outlive her brother, sister & all the other relatives of hers H8 killed?
Thank you! I really enjoyed this. And yes I agree with your ranking and reasoning
I've watched, and in some cases re-watched, videos on all these people. It is gratifying to have some knowledge by which to participate in ranking the consorts. Your content makes one feel more intelligent, just by watching. Thank you!
Thanks Cindy and I think if you're someone who seeks out educational content on UA-cam and not just cat videos (not that there's anything wrong with cat videos - light entertainment is important too), you're already more intelligent that many others.
Before watching the Video, I would put Elisabeth of York on number 1#
She gave her Husband two sons, was beloved by her family and the people (as much as I know) she basically was everything expected of a Wife and Queen back then
I think you're going to like my list then :-)
Thank you so much for this upload. I really like your channel, because even though I'm an American, l really love your history. My ranking is: Elizabeth the York ( she did all, and more), Anne Boleyn ( she gave to England Elizabeth I ), Ann of Cleves (besides keeping her head in place, she was smart enough not to offend Henry despite all the horrible comments he made about her, and she ended with palaces, allowances, palace's open doors and invitations, and after all that, she was respected as she were the King's sister), Jane Seymour( gave birth to his beloved son), Catherine Parr (was a good Stepmom and united the family), Catherine of Aragon ( I gave her this rank, because she was not a very strong Queen, perhaps because her strong Catholic faith, I think she felt superior, and left all her marital battles to be fought by the Pope and her Spanish cousin), and finally; Catherine Howard ( I feel pity for her for being raised in such dysfunctional family, but she made bad judgements, and at the end was betrayed by everyone).
Thank you. I'm glad you enjoy the channel and that's an interesting ranking. No Philip though? :-)
Thank you for your reply, and I think that even Catherine of Aragon would have fought for her marriage; I think Henry VIII made his mind of divorcing her, even before he met Anne Boleyn.
Another interesting video HC. I do so agree with most of your listings. The only ones I would change would be Philip and Anne of Cleves. Looking forward to next week.
Thanks Vernon. Yes, it's all subjective of course and just a bit of fun. You could certainly make a good argument for switching some of them around :-)
Before hearing your list, here's mine: 8: Catherine Howard (sadly, she has nothing to stand on) 7. Phillip. Bad match for him. It gained him little more power, and weakened him in some ways, possibly hastened Mary's death bc of her constant anxiety. 6. Anne of Cleves, although I believe she tried hard and wasn't as unattractive as made out 5. Ann Boelyn. She's a favorite of mine, but well, what can you say. 4. Catherine of Aragon. Would've been great, but caused the court and her daughter many problems by not playing the game better. 3. Elizabeth of York, near perfect. 2. Catherine Parr helped him ultimately, and managed to survive. 1. Jane Seymour.
I correctly guessed which consorts would be in the top 3 for you! Most likely because I agree with you given the criteria you listed.
Well done and thank you :-)
Snap! I paused the vid at the start, did a quick ranking, and came out with the same order!
Excellent! I'm glad we're of one mind :-)
Pretty much agree with your choices. Thanks for the great video as usual. Best regards, John.
Thanks John :-)
I like the order you put everyone in. Your readonings make sense.
Thank you :-)
This was fun. Your thinking was interesting, and really my only quibble would be the King of Spain. He let poor Mary down so badly, not to speak of Calais, that I would say it drops him to the bottom of the list. I’d have put Seymour above Parr simply because of Edward. Today. As you say, tomorrow I might have different opinions. Thanks for this.
Thanks!
Thank you very much for the donation Deidre. I'm glad you enjoyed my little ranking exercise :-)
Like I did with the Tudor Monarch rankings video, I'll give my rankings before I listen/before knowing what criteria you used.
From best to worst:
1. Katherine of Aragon
2. Elizabeth of York
^ to me, this is the top two and it's not even close, regardless of order
3. Jane Seymour
4. Anne Boleyn
5. Katherine Parr (I debated putting her ahead of Anne but didn't, not because Anne had a child, but because of who Anne's child was)
6. Philip of Spain
7. Anne of Cleves
8. Katherine Howard
Looking forward to watching! We had similar but not completely identical rankings in the monarchs video.
We're not THAT far off each other actually :-)
I love this video! Thank you! ❤
My first reaction was to put Phillip last. But after watching the video I can't disagree with the order you placed them in. I agree with your reasoning and thought your choices reflected well thought out reasons. Very enjoyable video ❤
Thank you very much :-)
That was fun to watch 😊
I think #1 and #2 are undisputed. The rest can vary according to different criteria, but those two are by far the best Tudor queens.
This was so interesting!
Thank you for this one😊
You're very welcome :-)
Very interesting. Thanks! ❤
Fun fact: Did you know, Women’s boxing first appeared in the Olympics games as a demonstration. Spot in 1904, In St. Louis.
I might have read that actually when I was doing my video on the Olympics, but I'm not sure.
I didn’t try to rank all the spouses, but I chose the same top three in the order you placed them. Unquestionably they did what was expected of them. Elizabeth of York, as mother of a king and two queens, was clearly the best of all.
Yes, it's a pity though that we have to judge them at all on their childbearing record, as it's obviously something they couldn't control. That's the 16th century for you though :-(
Hi HC 👋, I knew as soon as you mentioned Elizabeth of York was in the list I knew she'd be #1. Great video. I've often thought if she'd not died so young, if thungs eould of turned out differently with Henry VIII.
Thanks Holly. Yes, I wonder if he'd had her to raise him longer and advise him during his early reign, how he might have turned out.
Great rankings! I completely agree and I love your videos! ❤
Thank you :-)
I largely agree with your assessment! One might consider Catherine Howard’s sympathy towards Margaret Pole a charitable act when she sent furs to her while freezing imprisoned in the Tower.
Yes, poor Katherine was a kind hearted soul I think. What Henry (and many of the other men in her life) did to her was shameful, even if I think there came a point when she herself should have known better.
Thanks v much HC 🖤🧡
Love these fun ranking videos. You could go around in circles for ages arguing who should place where but you gave us a nice short and sweet list. Just a bit of fun ☺️
I largely agree with your rankings, very sound and logical reasonings 👏
My own list would be quite similar. No surprise poor Catherine Howard landed in the bottom while Elizabeth of York topped the list.
As much as I love Anne Boleyn, I too would've ranked her low enough on the list. Not really a successful or well liked Consort.
I half expected Jane Seymour to take the bronze medal as number 3 rather than Catherine Parr as Jane reminds me of Elizabeth of York in ways and I'm sure Henry saw that too.
Thanks Shane. It was tricky to rank the middle ones like Jane and CP. It's all just opinion of course. There are sound arguments for switching them around in the way that you suggest.
I loved your rankings ❤
Thank you :-)
I kind of giggled when I saw this title!!!! Before watching, my "most successful" list, as in those that personally made out the best, is going to be Anne of Cleaves, Catherine Parr, Katherine of Aragon, Anne, Jane Seymour, Phillip, and then Katherine Howard.
For best Queen/Consort, Katherine of Aragon, Catherine Parr, Anne, Jane Seymour (for male heir and helping to repair the royal family if nothing else), Phillip, Anne of Cleaves, and then Katherine Howard. Phillip gets demerits for kind of using England AND Mary, but the alliance with Spain wasn't a terrible idea at the time and kept the two nations from being at war for sure. And he did somewhat protect the legal heir Elizabeth, SORT OF-so we can argue he had an eye to keeping the succession smooth and civil war free?
I remember he and Mary almost married her off to a cousin of his or something, I'm not sure -I half wonder if it didn't happen in case Mary might die and he needed to marry her.
Yes, if we were ranking them by general good fortune and a long life my list would resemble yours, though with Philip higher up. He did indeed protect Elizabeth to a degree. I suppose we'll never know all his motives, but the idea that he was already thinking of marrying her is certainly interesting. Yes, there was a plan at one point to marry her off to a Hapsburg.
@@HistoryCalling I think Phillip might go before Anne Boleyn now that you mention it-he didn't suffer due to his marriage really, I just wasn't sure what he ultimately received for the trouble exactly. Where as Anne benefited and was greatly elevated during her and Henry's courtship and marriage far more than Phillip was, he really didn't have anywhere upwards to go given who he was the son of and what he was already heir to!
Same time, he didn't lose anything either-least of all his head!
I agree with your ranking, except that I would place Katherine Howard above Anne of Cleves. Henry did at least fall in love with Katherine, and she gave him happiness for a few months, but he disliked Anne of Cleves from the start; she was never really given the chance to be a consort.
Love YOUR VIDEOS
Thank you so much. You can let me know how you'd rank the consorts when you're done. I dunno if people will agree with my ranking.
@@HistoryCalling
8. Phillip Of Spain
7. Katherine Howard
6. Anne Of Cleves
5. Catherine Parr.
4. Anne Boleyn
3. Jane Seymour.
2. Catherine Of Aragon
1. Elizabeth Of York
Ah well. We agreed on the top two. I guess that's the main thing :-)
Job well done with this video 🥰
Thank you :-)
I'd definitely rank the ones who did not perish as successful in regards to certain ones here.
Yes, losing your head is always going to bump you down a list like this unfortunately. :-(
Jane only helped Mary get back into Henry's good graces. She wasn't interested in Elizabeth's well being. Lady Bryan had to write Cromwell for Elizabeth's needs. Catherine Parr treated both Mary and Elizabeth equally. Catherine was also responsible for getting both princesses back in the Line of Succession.
Jane wasn't too bad to Elizabeth actually. The little girl did come to court during Jane's tenure for instance and was present at Prince Edward's christening. I suppose in the immediate wake of Anne Boleyn's death it would have looked odd to be fawning over her daughter though and Mary was a grown up and in more immediate need of assistance given her poor relationship with Henry. By the time Catherine Parr was Queen, Elizabeth was much older and could be written to and write back and Catherine could oversee her education. That wasn't really an option for Jane who was dealing with a toddler living away from court.
@@HistoryCallingHenry had Elizabeth come to court for Edward’s christening as a political move, not because Jane wanted her there. It is no surprise he had Thomas Boleyn bring Elizabeth to that christening, Henry wanted to hurt Anne’s family even after her execution.
While Jane favored Mary, she did not favor Elizabeth.
I agree in many ways. My ranking, Elizabeth of York, Catherine of Aragon, Catherine Parr, Jane Seymour, Anne Boleyn, Catherine Howard, Anne of Cleves and last Philip
Ahh, now it's interesting that you put Katherine Howard a couple of spots higher. I think we have slightly different criteria (which is totally fine of course).
I totally agree with your ranking.
I think that the bottom three are the hardest to decide. None of the marriages were succesful, but I would agrue that the marriage of Mary and Philip was the most damaging to England. And that he did not even want to be in England for the most time.
I actually agree with you the way you have them ranked... Didn't agree at first until you explained why and then it made more sense.
Thank you :-) It's all personal preference of course. You could choose different criteria if you wanted and get a totally different, but equally valid list.
@@HistoryCalling true...
I absolutely agree that Elisabeth of York should be at first place and Catherine of Aragon at second place for all the reasons xou mentioned in the video. I propose Anne of Cleves for the third place because she was kind, intelligent (despite of her lack of education) and had obviously good diplomatic skills Otherwise she wouldn't have managed to get out of the marriage with Henry VIII alive and as a wealthy woman. She had a good relationship with Henry's daughters and was loved and respected by the people. I am quite sure that she would have been a good queen, too, if she had the opportunity. Therefore she is my third place.
Oh if we were just talking about whether these people were lucky, savvy and nice people Anne of Cleves would certainly be higher. She's only this low because I was thinking strictly about how successful they all were at the 'job' of being a consort.
I would agree with your list. The top 3 really stand head and shoulders above the others. Anne of Cleves, Katherine Howard and Jane Seymour hardly had the chance to shine in the role. In some ways even a bit harsh to have them on the list. My favourite of them is Elizabeth of York she seemed to more completely embody the role than did the others. Katherine of Aragon was only ever guilty of not producing a male heir, hardly her fault and Catherine Parr negotiated the turbulent period at the end of Henry’s reign and beginning of Edward’s without suffering any consequences. Given enough time in the role she could have been the best of the group.
I think I agree with your choices. The Tudor dynasty was full of fateful occurences. Truly bewildering at times.🙂
Yes, I'm glad I'm not living in that environment.
I think Jane Seymour could be higher on the list - she had many of the qualities attributed to Catherine of Aragon; she was pious, gentle, shrewd and dedicated. She gained Henry's forgiveness when she upset him and she bravely fought for the rights of Henry's children (Mary and Elizabeth), even though they weren't her own. Then, she bore Henry his only legitimate son. True, that wasn't something she could control and she didn't have a long queenship, but it was undeniably successful... Personally, I would place her in second position, behind Elizabeth of York, but before Catherine of Aragon.
Totally agree about #1 rank
I initially had everyone the same as you other than Catherine of Aragon and Catherine Parr (because Parr outlived Henry/he didn't reject her and for uniting his children). But hearing your reasoning, I was easily swayed to flip them.
Haha, thank you. I do like CP a lot as well of course and I think she was a good Queen too. It was just a matter of degrees.
Great video! I really do agree with you on most of them apart from Katherine of Aragon who I believe should have been first x
It was a tough choice between her and EoY. CoA was excellent too.
Which one’s ranking do you feel you wouldn’t budge on? Nice and light thought-provoking video!
Katherine Howard's I'm afraid, much as I pity her.
@@HistoryCallingI think I agree. And I thought the ranking you presented was logical given the time period. I don’t think I would have ranked them any differently.
I feel like Henry VII had the most loving and respectful relationship with his wife too.
I do wonder if their relationship would have been the same if she hadn't been able to provide and living sons though.
Yes, they seem to have really made the best of their arranged match. He's very unusual in that we don't hear of any royal mistresses with him. I wonder too what would have happened if she hadn't produced a boy. It would have been a disaster.
I think much of the reason for their love for one another was that because both their early lives had so much chaos and upheaval, they provided a safe haven for one another and a happy, secure family life.
I would have ranked the same except switching Parr and Seymour. I immediately went Elizabeth of York for the first and C of A as the second.
Yeah, I found the 'middle ones' the toughest to rank. I always knew who my top and bottom couple would be.
oooh I love rankings so this ought to be fun!
For me the ranking would go, from favourite to least favourite (and this does include personality for me):
1. Katherine of Aragon. I just love this woman and admire her so much: she was a great consort in everything but having a male heir. Her advocacy for female education so she could properly educate Princess Mary made for a generation of more educated women than before (and certain girls and women in Tudor History we praise for their academic accomplishments wouldn’t have done so without Katherine advocating for it). The battle of Flodden was another great moment, and she was not just badass, she was charitable and kind. I could go on for longer lol but youtube probably has a word limit on this and this is only the first place lol.
2. Elizabeth of York. I don’t feel as strongly about her as I do about some others, but I definitely see her as a highly successful consort.
3. Jane Seymour. I think her efforts to reconcile Henry to his daughters were important, and ofc, she had a son. I also don’t dislike her, so personality doesn’t push her down for me.
4. Katherine Parr. I agree w you that she wasn’t expected to have children, which is why she is not lower, and, much as Jane, her efforts of reconciling the family were commendable and successful. She and Jane are interchangeable for me, maybe tomorrow they’ll switch places lol, who knows.
5. Anne of Cleves- complete personality bias here, I just can’t bring myself to put her lower than any of the others. Objectively she’d be lower, but since I’m taking personality into account, she gets bumped up a spot.
6. eeeergh it hets hard now😭 Philip of Spain? I guess😭 I rly hate this man. Objectively, he’d be higher than Anne of Cleves, but I can’t do that w how bad a person he was.
7. Katherine Howard. She was unfortunately a failure as a consort😭 I wish I could put her higher, but all you said in her section is true. Her kindness at times makes me put her just the tiniest bit above last place.
8. Yeah, I’m putting Anne Boleyn last. Not only do I loathe her (atp I’ve stopped learning about her bc the more I do the more I dislike her- even content which is supposed to be pro Anne makes me dislike her-) but so did England. She was highly unpopular and her rise led to the death of many (some of which’s deaths she argued for herself). She was not an innocent agent in the late 1520s and early 1530s, and England was torn apart. Is this solely her fault? Obviously not, Henry was terrible, but so was she, and I consider them a match made south of h*ll (idk what youtube will block out so I’m playing safe lol) because of that.
Aight so sorry for this huge rant, but I rly liked the video :) (it took me so long to write I watched it all and had some silent time after lmao)
Excellent, well thought out ranking. Thank you so much :-)
@@HistoryCalling sorry it took me so long to answer😭 thanks, I do have a lot of thoughts lmao
This is a great video and a fantastic topic for debate with my friends who love history.
I feel so bad for Catherine of Aragon. As you say, the 2 areas where she fell flat as queen were not her fault at all
Absolutely. She wouldn't be judged on childbearing in this day and age (and more of her children would probably have lived as well with modern medicine).
Only considering the wives of Henry VIII, I would place Catherine of Aragon to be first because she was groomed to be a monach because her mother was Queen Isabella and father was King Ferdinand of Spain. She was smart, brave and fought as a soldier while Henry was away. He trusted her to be Regent. Second, I would pick Anne of Cleves, who chose to stay in England and be valued as Henry’s “ sister.” She fared better at this than being his wife. Third, I pick Catherine Parr. Being the step-mom for 3 of Henry’s children of varying opinions and beliefs was no easy task. For the time they spent with her, it was unifying.
So that’s my take.
Catherine Parr and Elizabeth of york ❤❤
I do love CP as well. If it was a popularity contest based just on personality, she'd have been higher.
I gasp when I see Anne Boleyn in four place 🫣🫣 but it's a very objective list and for a moment I forgot that this was a Tudor's consort list and not only Henry VIII's wifes. Of course Elizabeth would be the number one and Catherine of Aragon have 20 years or so of successful queenship. I think their sons would have lived she definitely would have stayed on her throne. Very entertaining video 🥰 now I'm curious who are your favorite consorts in the whole history of the England/Great Britain/UK
Yes, I think if Catherine's sons had lived (even one of them) she'd have been no. 1. Hmm, I haven't looked at all the consorts since 1066, so I don't think I can properly answer that. I like Caroline of Brunswick though and Prince Philip (Duke of Edinburgh, not King of Spain). Margaret of Anjou is vastly under-rated I think. She was a heck of a fighter and of course I have a soft spot for Elizabeth of York, Catherine of Aragon and Catherine Parr. Anne Boleyn is fascinating, but not a great consort on the whole when compared to all consorts throughout history (though she was one of the most influential in the long term). I don't know enough about the Scots to comment on their Queens and I'm not a fan of Mary, Queen of Scots' husbands.
@@HistoryCalling thank you for you answer:) I really love you vídeo about Margaret of Anjou, she was so fascinating. Right now I don't remember who Caroline was, I will check out. Thank you once again (^^)
Elizabeth of York is my favourite, closely followed by Catherine of Aragon.
Catherine Parr might (arguably) lose half a point for marrying a super-creep after Henry (who was, granted, a super creep as well), but other than that, she and Catherine of Aragon and Elizabeth of York were pretty flawless women in the role, to our knowledge. Give E of Y a point for being in a loving and faithful marriage, but then deduct one for being the mother of a super creep, and we're back where we started.
I suppose we have to say though that Catherine's fourth marriage doesn't count towards her performance as Queen and poor Elizabeth shouldn't be held accountable for her son's actions. Catherine of Aragon was mother to a killer after all and so were Anne Boleyn and Jane Seymour.
@@HistoryCalling Great women, whose problems were men. Mostly one man...
@HistoryCalling I agree with you, especially since Elizabeth died when Henry was a boy of 10 and so couldn't advise him otherwise when he was making those terrible decisions.
@@person650 Historians say that Elizabeth of York pretty much hand raised Henry. Even their handwriting was very similar, so that indicates how close they were. She could raise him personally because Henry was the "spare," and Arthur was off learning how to be the next king.
By the way, psychologists say that a child's character is formed by the time the child is 5 years old. Arthur died when Henry was almost 11 years old, so Henry's character was formed while he was still in his mother's care.
@@person650 I was being facetious; I would never- well, very seldom- hold a parent accountable for the actions or character of their child. But I never lose a chance to get a shot in on Henry!
I'm not sure on what order I would pick but your choice makes a lot of sense.
Thank you. You can have fun thinking to yourself about how you'd order them, or even just who your number 1 would be. :-)
Aughh! My knickers are in a twist! I can't decide!
There are 2 ways to look at this: Who is MY favorite vs. who was the REGENT'S favorite? My opinion of my favorite Tudor consort is, frankly, no more material than anyone else's, so I prefer to look at the other criteria.
So who was the regent's favorite consort? That question can be answered by asking a more important question: With whom did the particular reigning monarch choose to spend eternity beside? The only answers, then, are Elizabeth of York, Henry VII's wife, and Jane Seymour, Henry VIII's third wife.
Unfortunately, Jane died before she could establish much of a reputation, and it's unfair to penalize her for that, especially since she died giving Henry the son that he wanted and needed. Jane was dutiful and obedient--qualities extremely valued and important back then.
I agree with everything you said about Elizabeth of York, so, for me, the "favorite consort" title is a tie, and it's fortunate that England had both.
I bet Mary would have been buried next to Philip given the chance though. (I don't think he'd have been so keen).
I have to say I pretty much agree especially for the numbers 1 and 2
Thank you. It was tricky for a moment mind you, deciding who to put at no. 1.
Isn’t it interesting that judging by the standards of the day impacts the order so much?
Yes, absolutely. It would be a different list if we went by today's standards. I feel like my no. 1 pick might retain their place though :-)
I feel like thats the only fair way to actually rank them because they werent working by our modern standards so why should they be judged by them? Obviously our modern senses does help us judge queens like Katherine Howard but in an objective standpoint looking at them as consorts, you can only judge them in their standards
@@agatha6999 Oh, I completely agree. I just find it fascinating how our perspectives have changed since then in what makes a monarch’s spouse “good.” It is crucial to remember when discussing characters in history we don’t forget they lived in their world, not ours, and cannot possibly compare them side-by-side to modern cultural norms. Even looking back only a few decades you realize, “Wow, this was a completely different world.”
@@HistoryCalling I really agree. Overall, like you said, she ticks all the right boxes. Her actions, character, and history still live up to a good ruler’s partner.
I suppose it depends on how you define ‘successful’, I’d be tempted to put Anne of Cleves close to the top, having craftily managed a quiet, reasonably contented life, avoiding being too much scathed by her association with Henry or the general political and social turbulence of the time.
I think I would place Anne of Cleve's last, if only because she did the least Queening. Poor K Howard's tenure was short but it was at least an actual tenure. Other than that, I agree with this ranking.
Yes, I understand what you mean and you could definitely make that argument.
interesting tier list that I generally agree with - lol at your Philip II pics
Thank you. He was tricky to find pictures of. I don't have very many of my own yet.
@@HistoryCalling - he was not a handsome fellow - good luck finding a nice portrait
That's inbreeding for you I guess :-)
@@HistoryCalling - not recommended for sure
Catherine Parr was my favorite because she was the one who convinced Henry VIII to put Mary and Elizabeth back in line for the crown.
Seems like a good list. Henry ‘t eighth is an example of why it’s not good to have that much power. His poor wives all experienced joy then rejection until the last. Lack of scandals might be added to your criteria (if you exclude the false charges).
History Calling. The lady on the Tudor podcast made a video on the potential husbands for Elizabeth I. I was thinking, why didn’t they invite YOU ON ?!
Ah, but I don't do guest spots elsewhere anyway :-)
@HistoryCalling would you do a ranking yourself of potential consort for Elizabeth.
Or who would have been a good choice for Edward or a better choice for Mary.
Always Katherine of Aragon, Spanish princess was a great queen of England, loved by her subjects, and even managed a kingdom and a war while Henry was away. Wish he had known how lucky he was.
Yeah, she was brill. Henry didn't deserve someone as good as her and she didn't deserve someone as bad as Henry.