The Religion of Anti-Racism: A Conversation with John McWhorter
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
- In this episode of the podcast, Sam Harris speaks with John McWhorter about his new book “Woke Racism: How a New Religion has Betrayed Black America.” They discuss how the “social justice” narrative of the Left has become a religion, how this new faith has taken over institutions, and what to do about it.
Released: October 27, 2021
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![Cancel Culture and Wokeness [engl.]](/img/n.gif)
I was reading the Amazon reviews of his books. It's funny because a lot of the negative reviews thought he was either too biased for the Left, or too biased for the Right. You know you're doing something right when you're able to piss off both of the political tribes.
😆
Welcome to centrism
Or you’re very wrong
Yeah. You are Trump.
@Joe Green ..not a middle ground fallacy when both tribes (both sides of the aisle) have lost their freaking minds. I do try to think a little harder than your average person, and I don't just pick a side on an issue based on primitive, base-of-the-brain, tribal affiliation.
I've been called a "liberal [PERJORATIVE]" by people on the right, and a "Right-wing [PEJORATIVE]" by people on the Left. I'm tired of people like you trying to pressure us sane, moderate people into picking a side in this culture war.
So I ordered the book. It came today and I finished reading it already. McWhorter is a hell of a writer. Very eye opening material, but not dry. There is a certain down to earth and 'reasonable' quality to his writing. Not stuffy, not arrogant, no artificial barriers to entry, never felt like I was out of my league reading it. Warm, humorous, and the kind of precision you would expect from a writer with a background like his.
This "Anti-Racism" thing has regressed race relations several decades.
Yep. We'll be a long time digging ourselves out from underneath this one.
@Mike Kane
Joe Rogan was talking about something called an ESG on his podcast. Basically, an ESG is a score for "environmental, social, and governance". So that means cutting carbon, having diverse boards, and I'm not sure what the "governance" section of it is... but I bet it's problematic. No doubt, the "governance" meter is Left-leaning.
The contention was that Social Justice being adopted by nearly every company in the USA is not just simple following of trends, but there's actually a very specific financial perk to it.
There are ETFs that are for top ESG companies... so if companies make it into the top 100 ESG companies, the top 100 ESG ETFs are now obligated to hold a certain amount of their stock. This semi-artificially raises the stock price, therefore giving the company a larger credit limit to put more on their credit accounts.
It doesn't stop there though. Making it into an ESG ETF I would argue isn't as beneficial to a company as being dropped by an ESG ETF is costly. Not only does their stock fall and credit shrink, but the company's reason for being dropped is likely to be paired with some kind of PC infraction... which is likely to go viral and lower their stock even more.
Furthermore, Networks are being rated on their advertisers as well. If you are non-ESG, and you want to advertise on MSNBC, get lost. MSNBC values their ESG status, and NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU PAY, they will not run your ad. Conversely, if you are an ESG business, the last thing you want to do is advertise on an non-ESG network because that will lower your ESG score (and likely prevent you from qualifying for ESG Networks... which is of course ALL of the good ones except FOX)
This is why companies who would prefer not be political or relate themselves to social justice are suddenly making preachy commercials employing POC's almost exclusively. That's why shows like the Bachelor are like 50% Black. That's why the News networks are uncritically pushing "Innocence Project" lies and never platform the opposition. This is these companies clamoring for a position in ESG ETFs... and once they are there, it's a matter of sunk costs, they damn well don't want to LOSE their place in the ETF. And since the top companies in the world are usually very careful with their ESG score, that means, any company that wants to associate with them had better be ESG themselves.
It's kind of like a secret cult of wokeness in which nobody is truly in charge. You didn't necessarily sign up for the club, but you CERTAINLY don't want to lose your membership if you have stockholders.
You mean when races weren't allowed to inter-marry in certain U.S. states? Hmmm
@@runthenumbers9698 Joe "the moon landing was PROBABLY real" Rogan? Joe "how did the Russians figure out how to rig a light bulb inside their own space capsule" Rogan?
I am stunned by the irony of how anti-racism is probably more likely to proliferate racism than quell it. How people don't see that is shocking.
I currently go to a 4 year University in Southern California and everything Sam and John talked about is 100% true. My professors for certain classes don't even talk about the course material; they go off tangent and dedicate entire lectures to LGBTQIA+ social issues; which is fine but a college course on law and juvenile delinquency has very little to nothing to do with LGBTQIA+ movements. We constantly talk about ideas for the defunding of police, and the abolishment of prisons, yes a liberal view is to completely abolish prison, my professor dedicated an entire lecture to it and showed us a scholarly article on it, it's insane. I had to write a report on this article as well and say which points I agreed on and which points I disagreed on.
I have to tell all my classmates my preferred pronouns, He/him, that I am heterosexual and cis-gendered which, prior to this semester, I had no idea what any of these terms meant or why I had to learn them. That's just the tip of the iceberg I haven't even gotten to the "all men have toxic masculinity traits" discussions and the "all women are oppressed by men, all men are oppressors" discussions we have. The "white privilege" discussions are bangers too. My professors are extremely left liberals and force all this down our throats. These professors have PHD's and are highly respected. Sam and John hit the nail on the head with this one the Religion of Anti-Racism is 100% real I live it everyday I go to campus and attend class. Love you Sam
I hear these stories and I keep thinking "surely this can't be true". I was last in a Uni in 2015 and I encountered none of this stuff, but I recall panic around wokism was huge back then too. Is it worse now? Is it just Southern California? I'd love it if there were some numbers on this stuff out there.
Thomas Sowell said it best about academia. "The main utility of a Harvard degree is never again having to be impressed by a Harvard degree"
To be fair, you said a university in Southern California, so I could have guessed. If you went to a Christian college, I'm betting they would have heavily conservative-leaning lessons and opinions on certain subjects. Not justifying either side, just saying you can't/shouldn't be surprised that schools well known to be liberal have liberal leanings, and schools known to be conservative have those leanings.
If you are smart, you will know that there isn't a school that provides an education completely free from opinion, especially when it comes to social sciences and politics/law. The best that you can do is try to recognize that your teachers will have their own biases and beliefs, and take that into account when trying to filter/utilize the information being presented. For instance, I had a Constitutional Law professor who believed whole-heartedly that security trumps freedom at every turn, so I had to take that into account when taking in the info she presented, and filter out her opinion, and add my own perspective (freedom usually trumps security). I bring her up because, although every teacher is going to have their own beliefs that likely seep into the lesson plan, and I'm tolerant of that (just human behavior), I do have a problem when their opinions are used to justify grading people down because they disagree. She was REALLY bad about that, which I think is the only time that opinions in the lesson plan becomes a problem. I had other teachers who had differing opinions than I, but as long as I could back up my opinion, they didn't grade me down for disagreeing; she would grade me down for disagreeing, which was made all the more obvious because I was able to use case law to provide precedent and back up my opinion, but she would disregard that and say that I "didn't learn the lesson".
In other words, I don't have a problem with teachers having opinions, or those cropping up in lesson plans, but I do have a problem with someone punishing students who disagree with bad grades and negatively impacting academic/career opportunities because they can't tolerate differing opinions. Again, I had plenty of teachers with whom I disagreed, but most didn't let that impact the grade. Granted, I graduated 3 years ago, and perhaps there has been a monumental shift since then, but again, I don't think anyone should be shocked that teachers have viewpoints of their own, and that they can effect how they present information in class.
Sam Harris is also a liberal, just to a lesser degree
The FBI data on hate speech and hate crimes show right wing white supremacy groups making up the vast majority of these racial incidents. These have also steadily risen since the election of Obama. Also, several studies show racial discrimination in pre text police stops, home value, call backs on job interviews, environmental exposure and interest rates. I never experienced these issues when I was at university. Neither have my friends in academia. But ppl don’t demand stats and data from JMW. The other blk academics who have decades of research in this field get ignored in favor of a blk man who tells ppl what they want to hear
You should really post this entire episode. Most of the best arguments and quotes were made towards the end, after the cutoff point. I want to share this on social media but don't want everyone to miss out on the best parts.
The podcast isn't free. If you want your friends to listen, they can ask for a free subscription
@@TheKredden they won’t get one 👍
@@TheKredden asked twice, never happens
@@liamwinter4512 strange, no? I'm a poor student who would love the brain food, so to speak, but all my requests have been ignored. But Sam says 100% of requests are granted
I got a free subscription back in the day. But Sam isn't giving those out anymore. To be fair, it is Covid and I imagine a lot of his income is based on speaking engagements. Hopefully, he will revert back to the old model. He always used to say "I never want money to be the reason people can't listen to the podcast." This seems to be an inelegant solution to those problems. Personally, I think he should release full episodes but with advertising so he doesn't have to rely on the subscription-based model. However, he probably doesn't want his opinion to be swayed by monetary incentives which I can understand.
Eric Hoffer captured this phenomenon in his "The True Believer" and "The Passionate State of Mind." McWhorter's book is so timely.
Thank you, John. Thanks to Sam too for having him on.
So glad to be a supporter .
Nice tribute! Or if your real name, good for your parents!
Thomas Sowell conclusively demonstrated all of this and more 20+ years ago with examples from races and cultures from all across the world and history.
Sam, while he is still alive, invite him on.
@@ts8206 I think Thomas Sowell voted for Trump so don't count on him wanting to talk to him.
Sowell is a Trumper who makes ad nauseum excuses for an illiterate demagogue who now rules a political party with the iron grip of Il Duce. Sowell had some interesting ideas a long time ago but has let his disdain of the political left erode his integrity. Chris Hedges still has a backbone however.
@@porscheoscar You may be surprised to hear that some people prefer facts to your slogans.
40 years ago
@@porscheoscar You shouldn't make up claims to make yourself feel better. TS is a Conservative, not a Trumpite.
"Human attempts to construct moral order are always precarious: If righteousness too often leads to self-righteousness, the demand for justice can lead to one guillotine or another." ~Susan Neiman
"But the greatest menace to our civilization today is the conflict between giant organized systems of self-righteousness - each system only too delighted to find that the other is wicked - each only too glad that the sins give it the pretext for still deeper hatred and animosity." ~Herbert Butterfield
“The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior 'righteous indignation' - this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats.” - A. Huxley
Yes, bur you must remember that Butterfield was talking about Communism and Fascism. He would not have had any difficulty seeing today that only the Left is truly a threat to freedom.
@@davethebrahman9870 it’s good to know that that the prospect of Trump dismantling democracy and bringing autocratic rule in the style of Putin is no threat. Let’s rather be afraid that the poor will be given opportunities and good healthcare. As long as we label the left as communist and avoid labelling the right as fascist we can all feel comfortable, while the earth slowly becomes less and less habitable in the safe hands of the anti science republicans.
@@dmere123ify Jesus. I've heard about people like you, seen the shrieks in footage etc. But this is my first time actually seeing someone spout the delusions confidently. Trump was going to install himself as eternal dictator, Xi style huh? Fuck me. What a terrifying alternate reality you must live in lol. If only Trump was even half as conservative as you imagined him to be, perhaps we wouldn't have such a bloated bureaucracy. Don't worry champion, you'll get your Utopia soon. You'll wish you didn't when it arrives, obviously, but it's coming.
Only one side of politics is salivating at the prospect of jailing, "re-educating", sequestering, or otherwise physically penalising their political opponents.
@@anthonyreed480 I suppose Trump didn’t appoint family members to positions had no qualification for other than being family members. I suppose Trump didn’t claim that if he lost the election it would be because it was stolen from him and that he didn’t work to have the election results overturned even after the courts had examined all the available evidence and found no reason to doubt the election outcome.
If you can defend Trump while making nonsensical statements about those who seek to make America and the world a better place, I’m pretty sure we can both agree we don’t share much common ground.
It’s interesting that your haven’t heard anyone present ideas that conflict with your own before. Doesn’t that suggest you should consider going outside of your echo chamber occasionally. It is possible that you may not already know all truth, and by listening to the ideas of others with different perspectives you might occasionally learn something new.
So it's great that John has a column in the Times. What I really would appreciate is if they opened up his column for readers' comments just like for most other opinion writers. I think that would demonstrate a great support for his ideas. His voice is what many readers have been waiting for.
John's essay tearing rap music a new asshole is one of the best things I ever read.
Where is that?
@@matthewrichmond4139 normally its located around the lower end of the bûtt crack
@@myselftik where is it abnormally?
Post link
The article is called 'How Hip Hop Holds Blacks Back'
Literally one of the most important and genuine intellectuals in the West. Keep it up John!
You know, at some point you have to wonder if the anti-racists just have a different definition of the word "racist" than everyone else. When talking about the reporter who said the elite school was an example of racism, John assumed she meant the teachers were subtly racist. But you could also assume she meant the way American schools are funded and the lack of affordable child care and tutoring makes it harder for black parents to give their kids the same educational opportunities as wealthier white and asian parents. And this feels like a racial injustice to her. Terms like "systemic racism" are thrown around and it seems like no one agrees on what they mean. I've heard that an institution can be systemically racist without a single person in that institution having a racial prejudice. I've also heard that systemic racism in the police force means that all cops are racist. Everyone is talking past each other and we end up thinking the other side is crazy or evil or grifting.
It reminds me of the transgender debate. You have one side that claims the word "gender" has nothing to do with biology. That it refers to how someone identifies and portrays themselves and the way they act out social roles. You have another side that claims "gender" is inseparable from biology and that trying to change one's gender is denying reality. That asking you to refer to them as a different gender is asking you to participate in their delusion. It sounds to me like these two sides are just using the word in a different way and refuse to meet each other in the meaning. Maybe the discourse would be better if we just refused to use these contested words altogether.
Great point that I think about a lot
They care about political power and would use whatever tactic worked to get what they want. It happens to be anti-racism.
@@sheriffbigdog9671 I just don't think that's accurate. It's too simplistic to think an entire group just wants political power to have political power. The same argument is given about pro life people "just wanting to control women's bodies". It's more likely the case that "they" have the same motivations for exercising political power as you or I do. They see something wrong with the current state of things and want to change it for the sake of making it better.
Yes, you're right the woke left thinks that anywhere you see blacks failing, you have racism. This is wrong in the example of racial disparities in education you mentioned. You assume that all black people are poor and all white people are rich. When you compare educational outcomes, whites, Asians, and Latinos outperform blacks even when you control for income. What's more, African immigrants outperform African Americans on measures of income and education. This points to cultural differences that the woke left does not acknowledge. And its the cultural differences that need to be talked about if we are going to see the achievement gap shrink.
Power + Privilege = Racism, per the Woke Dictionary. Kendi says that in order to be anti-racist, you need to be racist towards racists, until equity is achieved, per Herbert Marcuse's argument that you cannot tolerate intolerance (ie: never allow the Klan to march in Skokie, censor "hate speech", etc).
First; Love John McWhorter. Second; His only saving grace with places like the New York Times is that he is vehemently anti-Trump. Otherwise, no job for you sir.
I once said at my dinner table on the subject of ‘wokeness’. “You know it’s usually not the minorities themselves that are offended by those jokes. It’s usually white academic types that get offended for them.”
I think a long talk about collectivism vs individualism is long overdue in academia and the rest of the culture. I’d love to see you have a chat with Yaron Brook, Sam! Would be very enlightening.
Agreed, striking the right balance is crucial
Sam doesn't have discussions with people he disagrees with.
It seems like that debate has been happening for a long time in academia and they've come down solidly on the side of collectivism.
@@taylorlibby7642 unfortunately.. but the rest of the culture needs involved in that debate. People need to speak up and demand rational leadership. Rough stuff
@@bradbecker8982 Agreed
Am I the only one who find John McWhorter hilarious. I found myself laughing out loud at last 3 times throughout this conversation.
He doesn't take himself too seriously, my maxim is, never trust anyone without a sense of humor!
John McWhorter needs to be way more famous than he is
He doesn’t fit the narrative of the propagandists so his voice has been sidelined.
@@TheLifeOnHigh So why isn't McWhorter on Fox more often, then?
He was on Bill Maher's show in May. Hopefully he will be back and on others that will get him some recognition.
He's actually getting some traction in the mainstream.
Thank you Sam. Your book waking up has opened my eyes from delusional thinking. 🙏🇨🇦
I’ll give you a like there Jason
Thomas Sowell sarcastically referred to this woke mentality as "Cosmic Justice" as liberals "fighting on the side of the angels." His words...
Sowell, being himself a black man, is like a wet dream for the disingenuously virtue signalling right wing bigots. Read Chomsky.
@@jamescarr4662 I actually have and he has nothing intelligent to say about the matter, nor has he ever had the stones to debate with Sowell. Chomsky's ideas are so old at this point, that he has managed to see his own ideas contradicted, even in the minor contributions that he made in linguistics. You should really find someone else's name to drop Jimmy boy...
Love John McWhorter. I always enjoy listening to sensible intellectuals discuss the topic. Makes me feel like the world hasn't gone completely insane haha
I couldn't agree more. After listening I had.. hope.
Yes, very much so. Shows that there truly is an old guard in academia that may still be sane and have a semblance of courage
He is not saying anything new
Ahhh two lovely and refreshing voices of reason. x
Zealots, Apologists, Inquisitors, even witch-hunts! Its what I’d call “the mother-load of bad ideas” 🤣😭😭
Really is a religion. The way people have responded to Dave Chapelle is exactly how muslims react when someone draws their prophet.
Or Christian fundamentalist Church Ladies...
This is going to get interesting. Can't wait to listen.
I can listen to this everyday! This is amazing
John McWhorter is a national intellectual treasure, truly.
I can sum this up in a sentence I bet. Anti-racism doesn’t exist, it is just racism. There I did it.
I wrote a paper explaining why Toni Morrison's novel, Beloved, is poorly written. I did this in the 1990's while earning a degree in English. Not only did the professor agree with me and give the paper an A, she suggested that Morrison's being black and female had a lot to do with her getting published. I'm glad I earned the degree back then.
Completely BS! You are such a BS artist
@@TheNas45 Nope, no BS. Toni Morrison really is a horrible writer. Most of her worst writing habits she picked up from studying the work of William Faulkner, who she wrote her masters thesis on. My professor did genuinely agree with me that Morrison's craft deficiencies and stylistic clumsiness make for painful reading. As for Morrison's writing awards, these are granted for social/political reasons, and they never factor into the academic assessment of an author's work.
I love the sound of John's voice.
Any link to that Ibram Kendi define racism thing they talk about 33:36?
Presumably it's this clip;
ua-cam.com/video/UC8WgVfjJ5I/v-deo.html
@@nicobruin8618 No it's a different clip at an Aspen seminar, where someone asks him what racism actually is. He says racism involves people being racist and doing racist things (etc etc). He can't even define it without using the word in his definitions, which is unacceptable for someone claiming to be a leading authority, and being paid millions to speak.
@@cowpercoles1194 Do you have a link for that?
@@stefanpieper3757 Here it is, timer marker when the start opening up the floor for questions at about 33:42. ua-cam.com/video/TzuOlyyQlug/v-deo.html
I have found Ibram X. Kendi's definition of racism at timestamp 34:31 in the video "How to be an Antiracist" on the UA-cam channel "The Aspen Institute".
Sam, I remember how you used to have people on your podcast with different ideological perspectives than your own. Why not invite someone and have a discussion? It seems like you've gone over this topic multiple times, but with guests who share the same opinions. It's beginning to sound like an echo chamber at this point. Get someone on here who will actually engage with you.
In the case of CRT, he probably does, but none of them will talk to him. Esp. people like Kendi and DiAngelo -- they never give interviews unless it's pre-planned, and structured to promote their side of things.
@@cowpercoles1194 Has DiAngelo ever participated in one debate? I don't think so...
@@markeggins890 No, only speaking engagements where she does all the talking -- and getting paid about $10,000, plus expenses. 😀
I think Harris realizes that the ultra left woke bunch really cannot be talked to rationally. I think this is why John refers to ‘wokeness’ as a religion. Ever try to talk rationally with someone that is very religious?
Ooooo excited for this one. Thanks Sam!
It's not just anti-racism, it's the cultures of virtue-signaling and tolerance-signaling
The whole agenda revolves around feeling disempowered if you are black, and treating black skin like it's a mental handicap if you are white. The idea, for example, that Voter ID is racist because they think black people are too stupid to know where a DMV is or sign their name and get an ID? That kind of thinking that a person can do something because their skin is darker, is racist.
So the main problem the -racism, the racism is fine but the real problem are people thar dosnt tolerante racisme
I hope that one day middle eastren countries become atheists and we live in peace 😭 but i do not think that will happen cause it is so ez for a president to trick his ppl into thinking he is right , cause islam teaches u how to to be stupid and not to think logically , im a saudi guy trapped in saudi arabia 🤦🏻😭i can not get married cause i do not want my kids to live here or be muslims , and i can not leave saudi arabia cause i love my family 🤧
@Phoenix thank u man
@@rorymercury4519 Check out Jean-Paul Sartre He advocated that there is no inherent meaning to life other what we give it. Choose your meaning whether it be family in S.A. or leaving to seek something else, then pursue that meaning
@@alexfloate2420 🌹💖i will
Unfortunately, even atheists aren't immune to delusions and magical thinking.
Finally a Sam Harris podcast that isn’t about panpsychism or simulation theory.
Or about tyrannical Trump
Finally leftist bashing
LOL. "Yeah, discussions about the meaning of life, the nature of reality, the mysteries of the Universe...so BORING. Give me some anti-anti-racism leftist bashing!"
I like this episode, it's important, but yeesh -- you people might do well to expand your palette of interests.
@@mikerobinson7206
Atheists lives are meaningless. More cortisol? More serotonin? It doesn’t matter because it’s only MATTER.
@@gabrielsyme4180 Do you think human emotions, passion, enjoyment all fly out the window the moment you become an atheist? Like, when they ride a rollercoaster, do you think atheists are just these passive automatons who are like "well I can't enjoy this rollercoaster, because I'm only matter". Or if they fall in love "I can't enjoy this love, because I'm only matter".
No? Well, then you have an answer to your question. We have passions, and emotions, and interests, just like any other human being. We can therefore find meaning and value in the work we do making the world a better place, because it is part of our shared human nature. Ironically, your life becomes even less meaningful if God were to exist, because you know then you'd probably get an infinite number of lives, or life after death. So what does one life on Earth matter? To an atheist, everything. To a theist, its not that critical.
How disconnected do you have to be to make a statement like John McWhorter. "People are doing pretty darn well and that is certainly the case on race for just about everybody in this country over the last 5 decades". What metric is he looking at to make such a bold claim? I thought this was going to be a conversation that went over actual data rather than two people shooting the shit and giving anecdotal life experiences for why they're right on the topic. This conversation is honestly embarrassing and goes against everything Sam was seemingly in favor of. Sam is seriously now at a place where he believes or at least won't give push back on the notion that being a White man in America is actually a disadvantage on job obtainability to being Black all else equal? Are you fucking serious? Show us the evidence not just gossip about an imaginary issue. We already know Black sounding names on resume's get fewer call backs for example.
John gives a dumb and trivial example that perhaps Black people don't want to play the Bassoon. You know what? Perhaps he's right, but the problem is that society isn't setup in such a fashion that we can know even near certainty that is actually the case. Does anyone truly believe that the average Black kid in America has the resources and the necessary culture to even take up an interest in such a thing?
Sam's take as it pertains to an issue starting with past racism doesn't mean that it is continued today due to racism was also hot garbage. This man seriously used disparities in wealth which is one of the BEST arguments for showcasing the issue at hand. We already know that on average people tend to stay within the socio economic bracket they were raised in. Wealth disparities in this country and undoubtedly due to racism in this nation so it's not surprising that you find Black folks on the lower end of the bracket. Sam has become such an embarrassment over these last few years it's disturbing. From hiding his podcasts behind a paywall now to escape scrutiny from those who don't want to line his pockets but want to engage with his work while claiming it's to sustain it. To now circle jerking the same 5 black people who agree with his stance. How does this do anything for the growth of him or his audience? Can he not send an email and get a prominent Black professor who disagrees with him to talk about these racial issues? It's embarrassing that Sam is so disconnected from his fellow Americans who may be a different shade that he thinks John McWhorter, Coleman Hughes, and the few other Black people he has on his podcast to just agree with him on topics are accurate representations of what Black America thinks or is going through. This man spent years debating Theists and you're telling me he can't debate people who disagree with him on an important topic like racial struggles which has major ramifications in all our lives just as well?
If you're a fan of Sam Harris over the years as I was/am, you should be asking yourself why he isn't talking to people who disagree on this topic.
In this conversation I found myself a little lost. And I'm not exactly sure why. It appears that I broadly agree with some of what is said at least in regards to the narrowness of using one framework to inform you world view however I felt the conversation lacking in substance. In so far as that John should be providing #1 Alternatives, #2 Evidence with facts, #3 Addressing the best version of the counter parties claims, #4 Using a convincing example (something about a Bassonist?), #5 Glossing over the elephant in the room. To me what I want out of these conversations is to be able to put forth productive conversations in my life. If I were to debate someone who holds the view opposite of sam and john, I'd get blown outta the water if I tried to use these as talking points. Also Pepe wins!
@@Terrranfear For more info, I suggest reading McWhorter's book. He gives many of the specific examples you're looking for. The reason they don't in this talk, is more for the sake of brevity. Here he just highlights the main points he's making. The Bassoonist example is meant to be an exaggerated example of the kind of specious claims made in CRT and DEI. It's an example of using a "god of the gaps" fallacy to automatically attribute racism to a situation that is probably has another cause. In academia, there have been thousands upon thousands of such complaints by CRT professors, watered down versions of which get parroted by media pundits, activists and corporate "inclusivity" HR consultants all the time. I think he doesn't give the details because frankly, they're ubiquitous, and I think he thinks most people know what he's talking about.
I just googled one, which claims that the reason for inequities in representation in classical orchestras is simply discrimination, and no other reason, from the Washington Post: www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/that-sound-youre-hearing-is-classical-musics-long-overdue-reckoning-with-racism/2020/07/15/1b883e76-c49c-11ea-b037-f9711f89ee46_story.html
Here's another fun one. Did you know liking Beethoven makes you r*cist? www.vox.com/switched-on-pop/21437085/beethoven-5th-symphony-elitist-classism-switched-on-pop
Yes, this is really a thing.
Here's another: www.newsweek.com/coca-cola-facing-backlash-says-less-white-learning-plan-was-about-workplace-inclusion-1570875.
And another: www.newsweek.com/disney-corp-asks-employees-complete-white-privilege-checklist-pivot-away-white-dominant-1589775
And finally, the black historian hired to fact-check the 1619 project wrote in the Atlantic that everything in that paper was false, and said that the NYT ignored her protestations. McWhorter debated her, but because she's afraid to go against the narrative, she did a lot of hedging and downplaying the poor quality of the article: ua-cam.com/video/Nm6EGgil1_A/v-deo.html
You really need to stop repeating those black sounding name studies. They are around 10-15 years old now and american culture is so hyper focused on enforcing diversity that is almost without question true that white sounding names would be disadvantaged now. Again, we need more up to date studies because you are repeating decade or longer old talking points.
There was a study in the UK in 2017 which showed people with Muslim sounding names were around 3 times less likely to get a job interview. This woke vs anti-woke, left vs right stuff is a red herring and dangerous whilst collective narcissism is still afflicting the USA. Why aren't people talking about that, I wonder.
*_Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity._*
~ Martin Luther King, Jr.
I had more to say,.. but *SKYNET,..* oops,.. I meant *UA-cam,* deletes them immediately,.. without any attempt whatsoever to explain why they object to quotes from Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, and Eric Hoffer. Apparently, I can't stop their BS,.. but at least I can point it out!!
I see no reason to trust anyone who acts with this amount of incomprehensible arbitrariness. It really sucks!! Ten years ago no one would have believed how censorious the social media companies would become, and for such little cause or reason??!
when one of these delightful woke people start selling themselves as slaves in Libya to redeem our sins then i'll start taking them seriously
It's a good thing his hard work has been noticed. The new York times needs someone with common sense as it's new voice not some overly emotional attention seeker. I look forward to his contrabutions.
lol his grifting has been noticed. Dozens of blk academics and intellectuals actually researched and put out respected fact based books on racism. This clown used straw men and antidotes because he was too lazy to research a real topic. I guess some ppl don’t care if blk ppl have merit
@@jausti2 what are you doing here? Why are you listening to reasonable rational people and you're a complete religious zealot? Are you woke people even human?
@@stud6414two reasons. To laugh at Sam Harris’s racism. There’s a pod that keeps track of it and I like to get a temperature of his foolishness. Second is to observe the bizarre commentary of ppl who have clearly never read a book about race in America pretend to know what they are talking about. It’s like reading the kid who failed science class talk about global warming. Also I get to see how racist ppl code their racism. This place is like bizarro world to anyone who actually takes the time to inform themselves on the subject. How about you? Big into studying racism in America? What’s your favorite books?
@@jausti2 "This clown used straw men and antidotes because he was too lazy to research a real topic."
Oh thank god he used antidotes. Might have gotten poisoned otherwise.
@@stud6414 It's best to ignore Joseph Austin he's obviously another attention-seeking overly-emotional individual who thinks the world should be as he wants it to be rather than what it is. The easiest counted to people like him is to ask one simple question if we did everything your asking would all the problems be solved and if not why not. The simple answer is no because they are not focusing on the cause of issues/ actual solutions to actual problems, for example dividing the community rather than unifying it. Hence why I did not reply to him.
"betrayed black america"? what about betraying white america? not a concern at all? ok, yea you guys are so much better and outside of this cult. that's why you, sam, wanted people to disassociate from stefan molyneux for talking to jared taylor
The reason interview exposed me to John. Simply put, he is excellent.
Thanks John! Can’t wait for your Tucker segment!
In my search for honest clarity over agreement, Sam Harris and John McWhorter are national treasures.
Two of the most articulate, level-headed thinkers of our time.
These guys have the same misplaced righteousness that they are accusing the "woke" of which I guess is anyone who thinks racism still exists today. Ironically McWhorter is especially smug since unlike most African Americans he has "seen through the facade and chosen not to be a victim".
@@thisaccountkillsfascists3802 lol. Dude JMW is a race pimp that offers straw men and broad generalizations instead of research and data. Most blk ppl look at the American right as the biggest players of the victim card. Lol at most blk ppl accepting the victim role. I can tell you haven’t read anything of substance and no very little about blk Americans. Why are speaking on a subject you haven’t taken the time to educate yourself about? Please go and read some books and stop saying such stupid shit
@@jausti2 Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? You seem to be agreeing with me in the beginning lol. That most black people want to be victims is not my view, I was stating what McWhorter likely thinks.
@@thisaccountkillsfascists3802 I agree with your characterization of them. The bullshit assumption about most blk ppl wanting to be victims is some racist bullshit that is a slap in the face to me, my family and millions of blk ppl. Our story in this country is one of resilience in the face of unprecedented odds. Anti mask, Q Anoners and the 70 million Trump supporters who think an election was stolen want to be victims. We can clearly see them create circumstances in order to play victim. JMW is a race pimp that repeats racist rhetoric that lacks evidence in order to cater to an audience
@@jausti2 Ah well I am in full agreement with you then at least haha. The victim charge from the right is projection like most of their slander. Hence why white people always seem to be under attack according to Fox News.
"Color blindness is not the prescription, so how do we get beyond the politics of identity?"
Only the blind lead the blind. The ones who truly wants to see will see...
To me, this is a misuse of the word 'religion.' I think a religion must have a supernatural/magical component. Without this, it is merely an ideology. And being mistaken or uninformed (both possible in ideology) is not the same as magical thinking.
How is thinking that all white peoples are racist by birthright, can’t help it nor magically thinking when you cannot observe what is going through there head and why they do the things they do? Another thing to consider is the claim that the average person cannot really understand racism but certain people have special revealed knowledge that allows them to see and point out racism, sexism, phobias in society and other people so their view is superior. thats what prophets are in religions (special revealed knowledge; judgments for the people they are “sent” to prophesy to)
They also claim that coming to different conclusions basically means that the other person is disingenuous, evil and the people who disagree must be reformed, by THEIR means. This is all magical thinking.
@@p.1014 You are exaggerating woke ideology into religion.
@@aaron2709 can you describe the part that is an exaggeration? I’d be happy to clarify or to correct myself
Just read the book. Definitely worth the time. His sanity on race issues is refreshing.
100 points for using the word “bloviation”
It's wonderful listening to 2 men discuss topics in such a way that the shared intent to pursue that which is true, useful, and dare I say "progressive" in the truest meaning of the word is seamlessly evident. I much prefer this operation to argumentative debates because there is a sense of development and new intellectual landings by the end. Rad.
Yeah. These people and fundamentalist Christians are the same. Both trying to “save” everyone. Definition of irony.
Key word is “fundamentalist”…applies to “fundamentalists” of all stripes…including atheists who think they know it all
@@eyesee9715 Yes, or fundamentalist anti woke type of people as well.
Per capita, among professional musicians, Black Bassoonist are more common than you one would assume.
^_^ Most criminally unnoticed comment of the day.
i wish my coworkers listened to this
I'm pretty tired of American politics, is there a better country I can emigrate to?
If you type "Ibram x Kendi can't define racism" into the YT search, that incident doesn't come up - it's just a bunch of "positive" videos, interviews, &circle-jerks.
Right. In those discussions he fails miserably to define racism or any term for that matter because doing so constructs the net that he would never be able to volley over.
Out of curiosity do ppl who dislike Kendi have the desire to read the works of other blk academics who study racism? Like those with actual academic credibility? Also, I’m not a Kendi fan but I’m curious how someone can spot his flaws and not the baseless conflating that JMW does? Kendi isn’t looked highly upon among ppl in this field but good lord JMW is just parroting some harmful dishonest trash.
@@jausti2 ah the praxis and the theory snobs have some infighting, makes sense to me.
@@trystdodge6177 not any more than any other disciplines. Do ppl realize that obsessing with Kendi without having the same desire to absorb the knowledge of reputable scholars comes off extremely disingenuous? Like how can ppl call Kendi a fraud when they support JMW and are only using the issue of racism in America for internet fodder? It’s kind of disturbing
@@jausti2 do you think.my aunt and sister are going to read scholarly writings? Maybe but probably not, they read this garbage and now see the world through an activist lens. They are the norm in this regard.
This is the way it's playing out and it's been possible thanks to social media 🙌.
Expressing your views on racism and inequality have been kept in silence for far too long. 😕
Not true....because if that was true, why are there still millions of black slaves in Africa and the Middle East, Why do women still not have basic rights in Africa and the non-western world. Why is there still FGM of girls, and girls still being sold into marriage?
Since the internet and social media, many cultures around the world have become MORE oppressive, for example, the Islamic world is becoming more conservative, like forcing women to wear hijab by law. Just saying you dont believe in Allah is enough to get you killed in Islamic countries.
To answer the question, "why is radical extremist black views becoming normalized" Its simple, because it has been pushed by mostly white liberals and the liberal media. Democrats are exploiting the black cause, as well as other social justice causes like feminism and LGBT rights for political reasons and to stay in power. Its also a great way for "victimized" groups to make money, or get special privileges.
I dont know how you can say "racism has been kept quiet for too long" Black people have been complaining in the media since the 1960's. Black activists turn up to any incident involving a black person to complain about racism, even when no racism was involved. The liberal media and Hollywood has presented blacks as victims of racism since the 1960's. Racism does exist, but its not the reason for the plight of African Americans today. African Americans can do any job in the US, they have much more rights, freedoms and privileges than most of the world. This is why the world's refugees and immigrants are fleeing black/brown countries to get to western countries like the US.
In other words, social justice has become a scam and is being exploited for political reasons.
@@tubester4567 I agree about the middle east and Africa but we have to set the example here for the rest of the world to follow.
You're just stuck in WHATABOUTISM.
Cool just actually saw him on Bill Maher for certain must buy his book now.
My god, how many quaaludes did Sam Harris take before this interview? Thought I was listening on 0.25x speed
I must live in a vacuum... From the beginning these two are talking about "them", and what "they" are doing, and the only clue I have about who is being referred to are some "hyper-woke leftists" and apparently we all should know who they are. They are so prominent that they have inspired this book and I guess other podcasts, but I have somehow managed to avoid them without trying so that I have no idea who "they" are. Maybe it's because I'm not on Facebook?
@@darrennelson5310 oh yes... I've been off FB for a year, but I've never been on Twitter. I don't get why anyone is.
Aside from Kendi and DiAngelo, most major colleges have professors (starting in Multicultural Studies and Women's Studies) with radical agendas, who have very gradually manipulated, propagandized, and bullied their way into forcing their beliefs onto the other professors. The more extreme professors have their roots in black nationalist movements (Nation of Islam, Black Panthers, etc) and radical 80s feminists (Andrea Dworkin, etc). The current Woke movement was started by black power professors, who were also radical feminists. At the same time these groups advanced their ideologies, many moderate or conservative professors aged out of the universities (dying or retiring) until only liberal or extremely liberal professors remained, and there was no one countering their narrative.
For the past 25 years, the universities have been taken over by extreme left radicals, who have been indoctrinating students. Enough of them are true believers now that they are trying to spread the religion throughout society, and it's having a negative ripple effect now. Imagine if Jerry Falwell successfully infiltrated universities with Christian fundamentalists, who smuggled their beliefs into science class for 30 years, while lying, backstabbing or bullying people who stood in their way.
The Woke are post-Marxist (they believe there needs to be a revolution of oppressed people against the oppressors and their "system"), utopian (once they tear down everything, there won't be any barriers preventing the utopia from spontaneously happening--with them in charge of course), and ethno-nationalist (people are not individuals, but are defined by their identity groups: black, white, straight, gay, trans, etc).
They also believe the ends justify the means, so lying, gaslighting, using Orwellian newspeak or doublespeak, or loaded language, is ok. For example, they say "diversity" means including people from a wide variety of backgrounds when in public. Then they implement a policy that means hiring different people *except white straight men*, who are scapegoated as the oppressor class and need not apply. By this logic, running a small business with only black employees, is more "diverse" than having a mix of black and white employees. When interrogated about being r*cist, they lie that they're just doing the traditional definition. They rationalize this as being ok because it's for the holy cause of anti-racism, and they can do no wrong.
The overwhelming amount of "white" professors who push critical race theory and other ultra left progressive ideas are Jewish. But no one wants to talk about that. Read the book "culture of critique" to learn more.
@@AleXoEx0 Hasn't it spread throughout the universities, and since the majority of white people are not Jewish, it would stand to reason that that there are more pro-CRT professors who are not Jewish. There are a lot of Jewish people who are conservatives because of their religious beliefs (like say, Ben Shapiro), so I'm not sure why you'd stereotype them as all being radicals.
@@cowpercoles1194 If you look at the representative rate of Jewish people who are professors you will see it's in the 1000% region of over representation.
Even before World War One….usa has favored imigrants from what they called Nordic and Borealic background (Germany and Russia),…and less so Italy Ireland and Poland (but they were welcomed to cus they are Europeans.Because also Americans also held a strong anti catholic sentiment…wich was based largely on German and Russian anti catholic sentiment and because Catholics were partially responsible for racism in Europe..Also the region located between Germany and Russia….wich was brutalized by German and Russian imperialism….they became fiercely ethnocentric…(Jews included becase zionism is an offshoot of that ethnocentric mentality
9:00 unfortunately, I agree w/John here: *"you can't **_reason_** someone out of beliefs they weren't **_reasoned_** into.*
This was brilliant. Wish the whole discussion had been posted.
Wokenism?! You're welcome and I'm sorry.
good 1 ;)
Sam, you “unfollowed” Dave Rubin? Really? Isn’t that a bit petty? It’s Dave Rubin, for God’s sake. He’s cuddly.
Thanks Sam!
"They" are not a unified front. They disagree with each other as much as with people like Sam, and in my experience many can absolutely be reasoned with if you try to take their concerns seriously
Oh yes. This will play on my evening commute 😀
Wish there was a way for this phenomenal value to be fully available so it can be spread across the world and make as much of an impact as possible, still totally understand the need to generate cash flow because we all need it.
I think Mr. McWhorter is an intelligent, interesting man who makes a lot of valid points. However, I also feel that his obsessive focus on this one issue has resulted in some blind spots.
Or rather, making accusations about obsessiveness reveals a blind spot. John McWhorter has a podcast about linguists (Didn't you hear?) and most of his work concerns that field. The book released just months ago was "Nine Nasty Words." Rather than psychologizing McWhorter, which is fallacious, you ought to address the points you think are not valid. What are his blind spots?
please enumerate these blind spots
I think you're an intelligent, interesting man who makes a lot of valid points. However, I do think that your obsessive focus on this one issue has resulted in some blind spots. Apparently this is totally legitimate way to have a conversation.
Such as?
What are these blind spots?
"As 1968 began to ebb into 1969, however, and as "anticlimax" began to become a real word in my lexicon, another term began to obtrude itself. People began to intone the words "The Personal is The Political." At the instant I first heard this deadly expression, I knew as one does from the utterance of any sinister bullshit that it was - cliché is arguably forgiven here - very bad news. From now on it would be enough to be a member of a sex or gender, or epidermal subdivision, or even erotic "preference," to qualify as a revolutionary. In order to begin a speech or ask a question from the floor, all that would be necessary by way of preface would be the words: "Speaking as a..." The could follow any self-loving description. I will have to say this much for the old "hard" Left: we earned our claim to speak and intervene by right of experience and sacrifice and work. It would never have done for any of us to stand up and say that our sex or sexuality pr pigmentation or disability were qualifications in themselves. There are many ways of dating the moment when The Left lost - or I would prefer to say, discarded its moral advantage, but this was the first time that I was to see the sellout conducted so cheaply." - Christopher Hitchens.
But yet Sam will continue to advocate for politicians that want to push CRT in public schools and other institutions. Sad.
U see Sam this is why Jordan Peterson told U on debate that people need religion because morals are strong will not reason he told ya but you assumed people can quote be moral without moral welp look where we are absent of god
I agree. And after the debate against William Lane Craig, that he still just dismisses it, is quite telling. I mean, he doesn't even give the slightest pause!
Dr McWhorter is one of the few public ‘intellectuals’ who is actually an intellectual.
What's your criterion for intellectualism? I have an idea what your answer is, but ill let you speak for yourself.
@@spacetoast7783 That’s very kind of you. An intellectual is one who subordinates his or her beliefs to logical analysis rather than forming them on the authority of others.
@@davethebrahman9870 So how have you figured out that McWhorter does this and that most other academics don't do this?
@@spacetoast7783 By listening and reflecting. What method do you use?
@@davethebrahman9870 That's what I thought you'd say. True intellectuals are people who you agree with.
*point of privilege* I do actually know a bassoonist who is black and she's incredibly talented
Thank you for sharing bro!
Another great podcast sam, but please focus more on fascism and the slow moving coup here in the states. Or even, more on far right extremism. We get the critiques of the left - there are plenty. But you’re criticism of the right seems less prevalent which is concerning.
It's not good when there's separate water fountains, it's not good when there's anti-racism.
No matter what, there's always friction in a place where there's different races.
Just ship them back to their natural habitat and live separately as nature intended.
Everybody's happy, there's peace in the world, happy end.
@Phoenix "Society growing up" is a brain-washed type of thinking. Means nothing.
Thinking that mankind can "grow up" from the way nature made them is childish.
A human, as well as any other animal on this planet, prefers living among their own kind.
That is the natural norm.
Everything that is not natural must be enforced in order for things not go back to their natural state.
Never in the human history has there been such pressure to cohabitate with foreigners, unless it was by done the conquering army, and to willfully promote it is insanity.
Europeans need not grow up but rather wake up before they find themselves demographically replaced in the only place they've got to call home.
@Phoenix The fact there are races is proof enough of them evolving separately. You wouldn't have distinct races now if they all continuously interbred.
33:37 When Sam invokes God, shit's serious. "Oh my . . . God . . . "
I'm eleven minutes into this conversation where two guys decry the "religion of anti racism," but I haven't heard a single piece of evidence. They're saying things like "these people can't be reasoned with" and they keep explaining how this " religion" is the biggest scourge we face, but neither of them has provided a single example to prove their argument about "these people." So who are the religious ones, exactly?
Well JMW isn’t white but you are correct. Funny that this audience applauds a lazy argument by a blk man because it tells them what they want to here. Meanwhile well researched studies by blk academics will be disputed or ignored by the same crowd. So telling
@@jausti2 I didn't know he wasn't white, I'm editing accordingly. Thanks.
@@jausti2 I used to be impressed by Harris, and his work in the area of meditation has been incredibly helpful for me. But I eventually realized that he is incredibly out of touch on most major issues he addresses (racism, foreign policy, the socioeconomic and political factors that activate Muslim extremism, etc.).
@@christheghostwriter his true colors have been showing for years. I have every one of his books. Now I’m embarrassed that the exist in my library
@@jausti2 he's an out of touch trust fund baby
Amazing that Sam feels conversation is the only tool we have on the topic of racism, because he is in the minority. But, on covid vaccines, he won't talk to Bret because he finds the idea so objectionable, which is the same criticism, people who practice the religion of anti-racism have of Sam. The same people who thought anti-racist protests at the height of a pandemic was good for our health.
Bret offered to have the conversation privately too, so Sam's position really doesn't make sense.
Agreed. "Making sense" made less sense to me when Sam refused to have that discussion. Whether you agree with Sam or Brett, it is was a missed opportunity for a valuable conversation where there is an overlap of listeners to both podcasts. David from Rebel Wisdom did the best possible job dealing with Brett IMO.
@@marcusowen7944 David Fuller is too far out of his depth and a bad-faith actor masquerading as a good-faith actor.
@@sheriffbigdog9671 I get this sense too. Feels like I've seen glimpses of the real thing and it's not what I'd want to be around.
@@groundedtruth1358 I will admit that my tolerance for bad faith is so low that I regard Sam as a liar, so I don't want to give the impression that Fuller is uniquely bad compared to others. Compared to other journalists, Fuller is probably about as good as it gets.
The last podcast was so long ago that the book finally come out.
I can't wait for the next video: The Religion of Calling Everything a Religion.
Naw, just this.
ha ha...very 'post' or 'meta' joke as Norm McDonald would have said...
Exaxtly
"The grotesque edifice of moral confusion..."
@ about 34:00 minutes: It is infuriating me, and most of the people I interact with. The insanity of our culture right now has brought me to tears when I am alone reading articles or listening to news. I'm a senior citizen and never in my life did I think I'd spend the last decades of my life watching freedom, rationality, and compassion disintegrate in front of my eyes. So much of what is happening is hurting the most vulnerable among us (children), and I shudder to think what effect this will have on them in the decades to come. My heart aches for my own grandson's who are just starting out in the world...2 white grandsons. Yes. I am infuriated, more than I can say. I became a voluntaryist about 10 years ago, because I believe government is the root of all evil and in many ways it created the conditions for this and it continues to feed into and support the unhinged religion of wokeism. There is no election that is going to cure this. America is irrational, and till we fix that, we can't fix issues that call for calm, rational and logical thought. Mike Huemer spells it out here very nicely....this is a few years ago, and he could see American was heading down a very scary road: ua-cam.com/video/4JYL5VUe5NQ/v-deo.html
"It's a fuck you to the standards of argumentation." Amazing statement that captures exactly today's catechism of belief of misrepresentation of other's points.
So glad to hear tokenism finally being brought up its a shame that its an observation now and not a prediction
Ther people who predicted it were called racist.
Lol at him being the token for racists online. Ppl who never read books on racism written by actual blk scholars on the issue will read him and others while ignoring the hundreds. But that’s not racism at all lol
@@jausti2 Reading someone's writings because of his race. That doesn't sound racist at all.
@@TempestTossedWaters no it isn’t. I do it all the time in order to gain perspective lol. It’s the blessing of diversity. Dude you being upset by doing that says sooooo much about you lol.
@@jausti2 It could also be that you're not a mind-reader and are way off-base about pretty much everytging because you think you possess such a power. I have never understood why people on the extreme left think they have mind-reading superpowers. It's a common part of keyboard warrior culture that whatever you can come up with as the thoughts and motivations of random people online, that they must be true. Who has taught you that's an acceptable way to think?
Reading someone's book because of their race is not a good thing. You are treating an individual based on their race. That's a big no.
Two years ago Trump moved the Bureau of Land Management from DC to Colorado. The move affected a lot of people. Some retired and others quit. Guess which group was disproportionately affected? Disparate affect is not race neutral. I am sure Trump did not decide to directly target Black folks, but that group was disproportionately affected. Is it wokeism or anti-racism to say, "hey, that's not right"!
Apologies if I miss understand the title, as I haven't watched the video yet, but it is OK to be against racism (and other forms of bigotry), right?
you're one of those people who thinks antifa "just means against fascism", aren't you?
No, the upvoters of this video don't think it's OK to be against racism. Edit: why do I say this? Because I've scrolled through the comment section and it's a f'n 💩show.
Don't be racist, but also don't automatically treat blacks like victims and whites like privileged oppressors.
And don't accuse someone of being a bigot because they have something critical to say of a minority/social justice movement or action.
Everyone is allowed to criticize everyone, and everyone is allowed to talk without being silenced, that's equality.
@@50-50_Grind dumb take. Being against racism is fine. What the woke crowd and people like Kendi have done is hijack terms like "antiracist" and their idea of anti racism is just racism in the opposite direction in an attempt to even things out. You have to be such a drone to fall for this stuff. More racism is not anti racism no matter what semantic games you play.
@@paperfart3988 Since when is bigotry a race? A lot of people don't know Karl Popper's paradox of tolerance, it goes like this: _"The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, _*_its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant_*_ (racists, fascists, you name it)."_ In other words: there is a limit to the tolerance of left leaning people. Racists sometimes call it hypocrisy or racism towards racists, and that's their dumb take due to ignorance or because they're acting in bad faith.
So can we call racisme a religión also ?
While I believe that much of the left is very unreasonable in regards to being serious about the facts of the matter, I strongly agree with the general proposals of BLM with regards to police reform.
"The proposal unveiled Tuesday would ban the use of "predictive policing," facial recognition technologies and drones. The use of ankle monitors, smartphone applications and any other tool used to track location would also be prohibited. The measure would end civil asset forfeiture, abolish mandatory minimum sentencing laws, end life sentences, repeal federal laws that criminalize border entry and decriminalize drug offenses.
The proposal would also require development of a plan "to close all federal prisons and immigration detention centers."
The measure seeks to incentivize localities to remove school resource officers, armed security, metal detectors and other surveillance equipment from schools."
The above is a summary of legislation proposed by BLM activists. Some of this seems very reasonable. Some of it seems very crazy.
Which general proposals are you referring to, specifically?
There were months of riots in Portland, and left wing DA, Mike Schmidt, released 503 of 550 arrested rioters. Imagine if a DA in Washington DC released 600 of the 650 arrested Capitol Rioters? Reasonable people want standards applied the same, and media to cover things the same... the Capitol Riot is still in the headlines, but BLM rioters trashing a Ronald McDonald Charity House in Chicago in August and terrorizing dying children didn't make the national news. The meme "Let's Go Brandon" is just as much making fun of how much the media blatantly lies and spins things, as it is an insult to Biden. I'd been saying since BEFORE TRUMP that all the lies and propaganda and woke garbage would lead to things like Trump, but nobody would listen. So many 'intellectuals' on the left ignore science if it doesn't support their delusions, and ignore any counter arguments, and ignore any chance to have empathy. I've always been a big supporter of people like Sam who just breaks it down, and isn't on "team red" or "team blue".
@@mattturner5429 Main two ideas that I think are important:
1. Over-policing. There are far too many police in some parts of the US, largely because our emergency system treats them as the default to be sent in for any emergency. They are not trained adequately to handle many of the situations. They often are not a helpful presence, leading to escalations in countless cases.
There were many proposals about more community based social support programs and emergency services to be funded instead that better suit the needs of specific communities.
2. Police accountability. There are many cases of abuse and unnecessary use of violence from police that have gone unpunished. Police need to be held accountable to the same laws they enforce.
Are the adults running the country yet, Sam?
Well played.
It's refreshing to hear a different take on this subject.
Mcwhorter and Glenn Loury have dozens of youtubes on this topic.
@@cragjones1799 Thanks for filling me in. I have his book on the way.
Wow. $100 year. Sam is going for pure monetization. Quite disappointing.
“ Racism of the gaps” Sam! You know that Sam, John know that, bu we got a be politicly correct and “keep driving in the wrong way”!
John McWhorter really wants Sam Harris to tell em about the gun line.
Lol and I had just finished listening to the first conversation with John
As a religion, it cannot be promoted by any government-related entity to avoid violating religious freedom.
We probably have to remove all the references to things like "In God we trust" on our money then.
@@libertyprime9307 indeed
I am disappointed at how shallow this conversation is. John and Sam are both brilliant and could have really got into the nuance but i feel like they are only targeting the twitter mobs and internet "journalism". Wasted opportunity
John’s a total idiot, sam seems to have a blind spot to clowns and charlatans ie jordan peterson
Morality clauses have become a blanketed defamation of my character. I have no rights. I'm being discriminated against for being intelligent & there are no laws that protect for that. I got denied dental & medical services bcz I have different vernacular. I am being slandered & murdered, very slowly. I am not allowed to defend myself!
42 yr old white male: who cares about them, right? Everyone else has protections & rights but not the likes of me! Will you help? If so how?
I have no money for lawyers either. Also, antisocial media oppresses me & has for the past 6 yrs.
McWhorter yearns for 2010? 2005 for me.
Was he big in 2010?
@@opensprings Im not sure
1910 for me. When Europe was still whole.
@@AleXoEx0 yes
How wrong was Sam Harris about his belief about just getting the Covid shots without uestioning its consequencs. I watched him backtrack on his stance and it was embarrassing. Lost all respect for him and am here for John McWhorter.