Andrew, excellent vid....HOWEVER, I respectfully believe you made an error at 4:00 where you are orienting the map to magnetic north. IF you are using the compass that you ALREADY compensated for declination with earlier in the video and you aligned that compass to the edge of the map and put "red in the shed," your map orientation would be in error by the magnitude (8 deg) of the earlier compass declination adjustment and you would have to subtract 8 degrees to cancel out the compensated heading. IF you are orienting the map with a different compass with NO adjustable declination, your instructions would be absolutely correct. To avoid confusion for those that didn't understand why you would have to subtract 8 degrees, the acronym "L-A-R-S," Left, Add, Right, Subtract will help. If you are LEFT of the Mississippi River, the approximate location of the Agonic Line (zero compensation) you ADD compensation, right of the Mississippi, you SUBTRACT declination. To cancel out the compensation Andrew set the compass at (+8 deg), he would have to SUBTRACT 8 degrees to make the compass neutral or non-compensated.
I came here exactly to search the answer for my question which I wonder is never covered in the lessons and tutorials. the question is how do I know if compass has already been adjusted before? What I adjusted it wrongly before and then realized it later and I don't remember the precise value or even the direction of adjustment? How do I fix this situation?
Funny - I have been teaching this to the scouts for years and thought I was the only one that talked about True North at the north pole being "where Santa lives". Nice video!
good two part series. orienteering is helpful not just to navigation but also to search/rescue should it be needed. communicating two bearings relative to landforms/landmarks is invaluable to reduce time to search and rescue arrival. also, in areas where landforms/landmarks are not so prevalent, forested/unforested areas can serve as backup (not as precise usually) since they're also shown on most topo maps.
Thanks for Your reply Andrew. My reference to a map adjusted for declination, means moving the map and compass together, to allow for local declination.
compass declination seems to be always confusing as it's usually explained. But always when you get a clear night (north of the Equator) you can pointing your compass at Polaris, the North Star, put N at it and then where ever your needle is pointing that's where you set your declination. (I don't think I explained this any better. My real tip is: learn as many ways to check and double check and triple check and then play with them often. Then when you're stressed and starting to get lost you'll be able to find two ways that agree so you can, maybe just for a while, dismiss the one way that doesn't. Getting lost is when what you see doesn't fit your concept of what you see. 'I think I know where I am, but that mountain range shouldn't be over there....' A great way to practice this is with a hiking partner look for situations where you can confuse each other, but not at the same time. I was once looking at downtown Los Angeles and a friend, who was confused was convinced it wasn't. He actually started to make me doubt something I can identify instantly for 30 years. That brief moment was like watching the compass needle spin around. But no. We all get lost. The real skill we want is not how to keep from getting lost but 1. how to realize and accept it, or at least the possibility and 2. get unlost. Multiple ways to sort out your position, direction of travel, etc.
Have they stopped putting magnetic declination on topography maps? There's tons of old maps with outdate declination, but current 2022 is hard to find.
Because of the coming micronova, declination is moving much farther, and much faster and so declination information is likely incorrect My up-to-date declination is 30 degrees, 15 degrees off from the official declination for my area. but there is still a way to recalibrate magnetic declination using the shadow of sticks recording the path of the sun---rotation of the earth has not yet changed. First stick will show East. Mark it with a sharp stick pushed in. After a few minutes you can mark sun shadow travel where the shadow has moved - Push another stick in to mark West. Lay a straight stick from the E mark to the W mark. Geographic north or True North is 90 degrees from the E-W line. With your compass pointing toward True North, note how far off your compass is now. That is your true up-to-date declination. More on micronova in my 2nd book, Surviving the Micronova: This Train Is on the Tracks is available now.
Hey Andrew, is it necessary to correct a compass for magnetic deviation, if the map has been oriented for the same deviation ? Seems like it would induce an error equal to the deviation, if the correction is done twice ?
I don't know why a map would be adjusted for deviation, as the map would be technically outdated within a few days of it being published (the earth's magnetic field moves slightly everyday, although it would take years for that movement to be captured on on our of field compasses). But I suppose that IF you had an adjusted map, so that the map's "North" equals your compasses "North," both of which are "Magnetic North," then you would not always want to adjust your compass.
Are you really sponsored or do you own that company because Colorado has an eastern declination but you have magnetic north set to the west of true north on your compass and that's wrong ...
One should remember that a magnetic bearing taken on a map that has been correctly oriented, doesn't need to be adjusted for magnetic declination. It's already accounted for by the position of the map. But if the map bearing was taken, referenced to the grid lines, and not mag north, the compass bearing will still need to be adjusted for mag. declination. Even if the map was correctly oriented to geographic (true ) north.
Hi Andrew and SD. Thanks for posting such an informative video, but I'd respectfully suggest using the following link to determine the correct declination adjustment www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag-web/#declination
Great link if you're using old maps, like USGS topos from the 1960's. But I think most people are using more updated maps (e.g. CalTopo or NG-TI) and the change in declination since publishing will probably be within the margin of error of the compass.
The link is just a tool and a free resource. Use it. Don't use it. Whatevs. How fast/slowly the declination changes over time depends on how far you are from the north and magnetic pole and the level of precision required by the user. In the Cascades, I can use terrain association and there's little need to use my compass. In one of our local wilderness that has zero prominent terrain features, a higher level of precision and implementing other land nav skills becomes more important. The 1960s map example is a bit disingenuous. The speed in which the poles are shifting is moving exponentially and will continue to do so. The declination printed on a 10 year old map here in the NW would be incorrect today. At any rate, I enjoy your content and meant no offense.
All agreed. You clearly know what you're talking about, and just offering some additional nuance, I get it. I was thinking of the 1960's because I have some USGS quads from that era, of Wenatchee NF interestingly, and declination is shown as 22 deg. I think it's more like 14 or 15 deg there now.
TrailBum, the website you reference is not very user-friendly. Here's a better one: magnetic-declination dot com. One click on the Google map shows you your correct declination anywhere in the world.
Another great thing about Caltopo - when you create a map using their website, the current correct declination is automatically printed onto the map. No worries about using a 20-year-old map that might be out of date.
What a shame...Totally skipped the relationship between declination and orienting the map, as so many videos do. Relying on the adjustable declination is not an option for everyone...
But it's really no different. Instead of boxing the needle ("red in the shed") you simply keep the needle east or west (or in line with) N on the bezel. For example, if you live in Colorado, the needle will be 8 degrees east of N. At that point your compass directional arrows are pointing true north.
Getting a decent compass with adjustable declination, such as the excellent Suunto M3 shown in this video, is only about $10 more then a cheapo baseplate compass. It makes your navigation life so much easier. If you are really a cheapskate and can't even manage this, then dry in your local declamation with sharpie pen on the dial of your compass. Either way, you can measure all the bearings to true north. This is the more modern and Easier way to use a compass. If you do this, you do not ever have to bother orienting the map before you take a bearing.
Troy, that is actually a very good question. Suunto Is the only compass manufacture I know of that has ever used these.They are for precisely marking locations on your map with a pen or pencil, such as a trailhead, campsite, etc. Truth be told, this is prolly not a very useful feature for most people, because is easy enough to draw on the map without using the template. As of a couple of years ago, I'm pretty sure that Suunto removed the square and circle from the baseplate.
You mean how to orient you map with a non-adjustable compass? It's only slightly different than how it's done with an adjustable compass. Line up the compass meridian lines with the map grid system (or a map margin) and then rotate everything (at least the map and compass, and your body if you're new to this) until the magnetic needle is appropriately east or west (or in line with) of North on the bezel. For example, if you live in Colorado, your needle should be about 8 degrees east/right of N.
Well, that's a pretty harsh comment. If you have a non-adjustable base plate compass, then just draw in your local declination with a sharpie pen on your compass baseplate. Then you can do exactly what Andrew has described in this video. Or, don't be a cheapskate and just go spend an extra 10 bucks and get a quality compass like the Suunto M3 with adjustable declination. =^) There are plenty of UA-cam videos that show the old school method of using a non-adjustable compass. Andrew is showing the modern way to use a compass, and if you have a quality compass with adjustable declination, what he shows here is entirely correct.
Andrew explained declination plainly so even the novice can easily understand. Red in the shed is also very helpful to remember.
Andrew, excellent vid....HOWEVER, I respectfully believe you made an error at 4:00 where you are orienting the map to magnetic north. IF you are using the compass that you ALREADY compensated for declination with earlier in the video and you aligned that compass to the edge of the map and put "red in the shed," your map orientation would be in error by the magnitude (8 deg) of the earlier compass declination adjustment and you would have to subtract 8 degrees to cancel out the compensated heading. IF you are orienting the map with a different compass with NO adjustable declination, your instructions would be absolutely correct. To avoid confusion for those that didn't understand why you would have to subtract 8 degrees, the acronym "L-A-R-S," Left, Add, Right, Subtract will help. If you are LEFT of the Mississippi River, the approximate location of the Agonic Line (zero compensation) you ADD compensation, right of the Mississippi, you SUBTRACT declination. To cancel out the compensation Andrew set the compass at (+8 deg), he would have to SUBTRACT 8 degrees to make the compass neutral or non-compensated.
I came here exactly to search the answer for my question which I wonder is never covered in the lessons and tutorials. the question is how do I know if compass has already been adjusted before? What I adjusted it wrongly before and then realized it later and I don't remember the precise value or even the direction of adjustment? How do I fix this situation?
Oh my God somebody can finally put words to what is going on with navigation
Funny - I have been teaching this to the scouts for years and thought I was the only one that talked about True North at the north pole being "where Santa lives". Nice video!
It was quite good.
I love that comment they are out in the clouds 🤣🤣. Nature throwing a curve ball🤣. Good video ☺️
Excellent video. Looking forward to the other parts.
good two part series.
orienteering is helpful not just to navigation but also to search/rescue should it be needed. communicating two bearings relative to landforms/landmarks is invaluable to reduce time to search and rescue arrival. also, in areas where landforms/landmarks are not so prevalent, forested/unforested areas can serve as backup (not as precise usually) since they're also shown on most topo maps.
Thanks for Your reply Andrew. My reference to a map adjusted for declination, means moving the map and compass together, to allow for local declination.
compass declination seems to be always confusing as it's usually explained. But always when you get a clear night (north of the Equator) you can pointing your compass at Polaris, the North Star, put N at it and then where ever your needle is pointing that's where you set your declination. (I don't think I explained this any better. My real tip is: learn as many ways to check and double check and triple check and then play with them often. Then when you're stressed and starting to get lost you'll be able to find two ways that agree so you can, maybe just for a while, dismiss the one way that doesn't.
Getting lost is when what you see doesn't fit your concept of what you see. 'I think I know where I am, but that mountain range shouldn't be over there....'
A great way to practice this is with a hiking partner look for situations where you can confuse each other, but not at the same time. I was once looking at downtown Los Angeles and a friend, who was confused was convinced it wasn't. He actually started to make me doubt something I can identify instantly for 30 years. That brief moment was like watching the compass needle spin around. But no. We all get lost. The real skill we want is not how to keep from getting lost but 1. how to realize and accept it, or at least the possibility and 2. get unlost. Multiple ways to sort out your position, direction of travel, etc.
Well explained. I'll get an adjustable compass. Thanks. Auswalker
Have they stopped putting magnetic declination on topography maps? There's tons of old maps with outdate declination, but current 2022 is hard to find.
Because of the coming micronova, declination is moving much farther, and much faster and so declination information is likely incorrect My up-to-date declination is 30 degrees, 15 degrees off from the official declination for my area. but there is still a way to recalibrate magnetic declination using the shadow of sticks recording the path of the sun---rotation of the earth has not yet changed. First stick will show East. Mark it with a sharp stick pushed in. After a few minutes you can mark sun shadow travel where the shadow has moved - Push another stick in to mark West. Lay a straight stick from the E mark to the W mark. Geographic north or True North is 90 degrees from the E-W line. With your compass pointing toward True North, note how far off your compass is now. That is your true up-to-date declination. More on micronova in my 2nd book, Surviving the Micronova: This Train Is on the Tracks is available now.
I have 2 different topo maps an neither one have the declination on it??
Hey Andrew, is it necessary to correct a compass for magnetic deviation, if the map has been oriented for the same deviation ? Seems like it would induce an error equal to the deviation, if the correction is done twice ?
I don't know why a map would be adjusted for deviation, as the map would be technically outdated within a few days of it being published (the earth's magnetic field moves slightly everyday, although it would take years for that movement to be captured on on our of field compasses). But I suppose that IF you had an adjusted map, so that the map's "North" equals your compasses "North," both of which are "Magnetic North," then you would not always want to adjust your compass.
awesome!
Thanks for this so vital instruction.
Are you really sponsored or do you own that company because Colorado has an eastern declination but you have magnetic north set to the west of true north on your compass and that's wrong ...
One should remember that a magnetic bearing taken on a map that has been correctly oriented, doesn't need to be adjusted for magnetic declination. It's already accounted for by the position of the map. But if the map bearing was taken, referenced to the grid lines, and not mag north, the compass bearing will still need to be adjusted for mag. declination. Even if the map was correctly oriented to geographic (true ) north.
LARS. Left add, right subtract.
what about the black needle, what is that?
Ray Low: Its for measuring angles / steepness (of slopes, etc).
@@paganphil100 your respond came 3 years latter which is truly amazing!!! 😅😂🤣
@@raylow304 : I've only just seen the video....better late than never :-)
North is really south, seen it in videos
Hi Andrew and SD. Thanks for posting such an informative video, but I'd respectfully suggest using the following link to determine the correct declination adjustment www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag-web/#declination
Great link if you're using old maps, like USGS topos from the 1960's. But I think most people are using more updated maps (e.g. CalTopo or NG-TI) and the change in declination since publishing will probably be within the margin of error of the compass.
The link is just a tool and a free resource. Use it. Don't use it. Whatevs.
How fast/slowly the declination changes over time depends on how far you are from the north and magnetic pole and the level of precision required by the user. In the Cascades, I can use terrain association and there's little need to use my compass. In one of our local wilderness that has zero prominent terrain features, a higher level of precision and implementing other land nav skills becomes more important.
The 1960s map example is a bit disingenuous. The speed in which the poles are shifting is moving exponentially and will continue to do so. The declination printed on a 10 year old map here in the NW would be incorrect today.
At any rate, I enjoy your content and meant no offense.
All agreed. You clearly know what you're talking about, and just offering some additional nuance, I get it.
I was thinking of the 1960's because I have some USGS quads from that era, of Wenatchee NF interestingly, and declination is shown as 22 deg. I think it's more like 14 or 15 deg there now.
TrailBum, the website you reference is not very user-friendly. Here's a better one: magnetic-declination dot com. One click on the Google map shows you your correct declination anywhere in the world.
Another great thing about Caltopo - when you create a map using their website, the current correct declination is automatically printed onto the map. No worries about using a 20-year-old map that might be out of date.
What a shame...Totally skipped the relationship between declination and orienting the map, as so many videos do. Relying on the adjustable declination is not an option for everyone...
But it's really no different. Instead of boxing the needle ("red in the shed") you simply keep the needle east or west (or in line with) N on the bezel. For example, if you live in Colorado, the needle will be 8 degrees east of N. At that point your compass directional arrows are pointing true north.
Getting a decent compass with adjustable declination, such as the excellent Suunto M3 shown in this video, is only about $10 more then a cheapo baseplate compass. It makes your navigation life so much easier. If you are really a cheapskate and can't even manage this, then dry in your local declamation with sharpie pen on the dial of your compass. Either way, you can measure all the bearings to true north. This is the more modern and Easier way to use a compass. If you do this, you do not ever have to bother orienting the map before you take a bearing.
I'd be so lost following you
maybe one of the dumber questions for you but I have wondered what the triangle and circle cut outs are for on some compasses.
Troy, that is actually a very good question. Suunto Is the only compass manufacture I know of that has ever used these.They are for precisely marking locations on your map with a pen or pencil, such as a trailhead, campsite, etc.
Truth be told, this is prolly not a very useful feature for most people, because is easy enough to draw on the map without using the template. As of a couple of years ago, I'm pretty sure that Suunto removed the square and circle from the baseplate.
thank you for the prompt response. thank you for the great video.
Another worthless video that doesn't show how adjust your map when using a nonadjustable compass.
You mean how to orient you map with a non-adjustable compass? It's only slightly different than how it's done with an adjustable compass. Line up the compass meridian lines with the map grid system (or a map margin) and then rotate everything (at least the map and compass, and your body if you're new to this) until the magnetic needle is appropriately east or west (or in line with) of North on the bezel. For example, if you live in Colorado, your needle should be about 8 degrees east/right of N.
Well, that's a pretty harsh comment. If you have a non-adjustable base plate compass, then just draw in your local declination with a sharpie pen on your compass baseplate. Then you can do exactly what Andrew has described in this video. Or, don't be a cheapskate and just go spend an extra 10 bucks and get a quality compass like the Suunto M3 with adjustable declination. =^)
There are plenty of UA-cam videos that show the old school method of using a non-adjustable compass. Andrew is showing the modern way to use a compass, and if you have a quality compass with adjustable declination, what he shows here is entirely correct.