jokes aside, ds2's still the only game to have true powerstancing. Elden ring only brought back the basic l1 attacks, & left hand attacks altogether are limited to neutral attacks only (no sprint/roll/step/jump attacks). Too many no brainer features like that shouldve been mainstays
The game doubles down on ADP being a little more of a melee stat by also making it give Poise. Edit: I also found out quite recently that Endurance gives a little bit of Poise too.
Yes, I think it is a common misconception. People saw ADP and were like "WTF is this", so it's kind of the "boo man" for those expecting a warmed-up DS1. Playing casters in DS2 is perfectly fine, and you need ATT anyway wich raises AGL (s, estus-speed,...) as well, but people overlook that. And yes, the stat everyone is looking for is AGL. 🙂
I want to become a writer, Dark Souls has been really influential in my life and right now I'm working in a story about a character who, originally, was born as a Dark Souls 2 character. It just so happens that I sent a tale about her to a contest and I won, right now I'm around the 200 pages mark and I have never been so passionate, so in love with an idea of a character, and it all began with a Dark souls 2 run. I'm telling you this because I see you appreciate the game and it has given you so many good things, you're not alone, this game gave me my best character who will, one day, become the protagonist of a novel.
The dark souls games really inspired my writing as well. I’ve only gotten one book published so far, but I’m working on the rest of the series. Keep working on your dreams man
@@sethlowen2303hello , big book enjoyer here. i would find it incredibly interesting and awesome to read someone’s book that is inspired by their experience with dark souls. if it’s not too much of an ask and there is a published work, could you share a name or the like so i and any others could invest our time in your story?
DS really is peak fantasy. It's only natural that a lot of the works the community has done to expand on the lore or tell such personal stories have been equally as compelling. I'm happy you're finding it such a source of inspiration for your writing
Author of DebugManager here, the “Hitbox” tool shown at the beginning of this video. In my opinion, the problem with grabs is not only the little stun animation (which can be removed very easily, it took me 2 minutes to get rid of it globally), it’s that the player gets teleported. Other games don’t do this, they rotate the attacker to the defender of the grab. I feel this would make it feel better.
13:44 I think I know what's going on here, and it's a psychological trick. I'm going to steal this example from an extra credits video, but apparently, during World of Warcraft's development, there was an exp debuff if you play the game for too long. People didn't like this, but instead of changing the mechanic, they changed how it was framed by making the "normal" state now appear as an exp buff, while the former debuff was now framed as the "normal" state. A similar thing is going on with Dark Souls 2 vs 3. Instead of framing the situation as "you lost half of your max HP", they changed nothing about the system, but instead made the half normal and the normal HP "double your HP" because psychologically speaking, people are less frustrated by that for some reason. It doesn't matter if they are both similar; it's that one feels better than the other for silly moneky brain reasons.
They absolutely did change the system. This, imo, is an inaccurate framing of how health works in these two games. In DS3 whatever health you have unembered is your baseline, it's what you start with, it's what you get when you die when embered, which you can only get by consuming embers or beating bosses. I'd wager most players who played through DS3 are probably unembered for most of their playthrough, only popping it for a heal or for extra help in a fight or something. In DS2, what you start with is your baseline, which then gets reduced when you die. You can't really frame the minimum half or your *normal* as your baseline in DS2 because you only reach it after dying 10 times without ever using a human effigy, this is not the same thing at all as DS3's system, where you always have your baseline health minimum as a minimum and then can increase it using an ember.
@jeanmarcmichel5719 You are missing the point that "losing your max HP," psychologically speaking, feels worse than "losing a buff to your health." In Dark Souls 2, your max health is whittled down upon death until you take a human effigy. In Dark Souls 3, instead of framing the embedded state as your "base health" (by showing a grayed-out bar), they instead frame the unembedded state as your "baseline" instead of the debuff like in Dark Souls 2. The specifics are different, there are other things they changed between the systems, but the fact the "embered" state is framed as a buff instead of the "normal" state psychologically feels better.
@@EoteVessels that's not the argument I was countering, yes the framing makes it feel better in DS3 and I agree with that. What I was arguing against was the notion that both systems are essentially the same just framed differently. The specifics make a pretty big difference there.
@@majickman and then you immediately become a human after the first twenty seconds of gameplay when you create your character, and your hp total during that very short intro is not even representative of your actual hp past character creation
8:26 The moment you tell them "just level __" they lose their shit. It happened in Eldenring as well with Vigor since people were getting mad from being two shot by bosses, then when they were told the same thing for the DLC but they still didn't get it
I have my gripes with DS2 (mostly how I cannot evade grab attacks properly and keep falling off the bridge on a way to Chariot) but it is still the only game out of three I replayed more than 3 times (2 in original and 3 in Scholar) like no other in Souls series. Bloodborne might come close second and Elden Ring is its own Elden Beast entirely but DS2 is still the best in mood, tone, colours, even people. DS2 gave us GAVLAN! No other game has Gavlan.
Lol, the best advice i can give for avoiding grab attacks in dark souls 2 is to roll way later than you think you should. People usually get grabbed while in the end of their roll, so if you delay your roll youll find it much easier to avoid attacks. But i love DS2! When compared to its predecessor it isnt as impressive, and its very easy to see that there wasn't much of a "vision" like with the DS1, but it experimented a ton and was quite successful in those experiments! - A password system to play with friends online more consistently - Powerstancing being a beloved mechanic that they sort of released in DS3 with twinblades, Gottards Twinswords, Sister Friedes Scythe, and the Ringed Knight Paired Greatswords and then finally being brought back properly in Elden Ring (Though i think Dark Souls 2's version of allowing you to powerstance different weapon types to be still much better) - An upgrade system for your estus to let you hold more as opposed to kindling - A simpler - more refined upgrade system that allows players to swap out their enchantments on their weapons - Bosses having multiple phases - A guard break mechanic that lets you riposte - Weapons of the same category having unique movesets!!! (why did this have to go away :< ) - Changes to getting boss weapons so you just get the weapon and dont have to rank up a normal weapon to turn it into a boss weapon - Introducing +1, and +2 rings for NG+ - Oh yeah, having actual NG+ content for the player to experience (adding new base game enemies, letting bosses drop new souls) - Bonfire Ascetics letting you NG+ a single bonfire area letting you respawn bosses - Changing jump to Hold O + R3 rather than Hold O + tap O It introduced a ton of mechanics that were kept and loved!
I only play sotfs so the revelation that frigid outskirts and the like were meant to be co-op blew my fucking mind, I mean in hindsight it makes a lot of sense
He also forgot to mention some extra details. They have an increased summoning limit and grant special item drops during coop. Getting summoned to Frigid Outskirts before you get the DLC key is the earliest way to get a Bone Fist.
dark souls 2 has always had a special place in my heart it was the first dark souls game i played and probably the second game i ever took seriously , it was also the only game from 2014 that could work on my super low end laptop at the time and i used to take it with me everywhere even on family trips since i wasnt the kind of person who liked social interactions or going outside too much , the world of dark souls 2 might have been very depressing but to me at that time it was a shining beacon of hope , no matter how many time i died , no matter how many time i got bum rushed by 8 enemies , i could always prevail . even now whenever i feel down or get the feeling of "thats it" i would remember the time beat dark souls 2 on a family trip screaming out the balcony of a hotel room with joy knowing that if i beat that game then i could beat whatever im up against now.
As someone who consistently hits up shrine of Amana in less than 5 hours I can never unsee ds2 as a beautiful flawed maiden of epic proportions absolutely massive, juicy with their own quirks and tricks to learn to make the game truly shine. It has it's issues sometimes it gets nervous and throws to much at you far to quickly, at first you might find them uncomfortable, but given time anyone who decides to dig in deep will be greatly rewarded with a beautiful and grand experience that is entirely self contained to this experience. It's not perfect, but there's nothing else like it.
Found this through your short talking about the movement and how it compares to DS1. Really glad I clicked on the full vid. The intro was way sick! I absolutely loved the camera work! Really nice to see more videos talking about DS2 positively instead of all the rampant negativity. Hopefully the algorithm catches this video and spreads it like wildfire
I do have two (imo, quite important) counterpoints to your point on Adaptability being similar to other Dark Souls games' poorly-explained mechanics. The first being *those other mechanics weren't as immediately impactful and player-facing as rolling i-frames are.* Nobody will really bat an eye when Gravelords fail to happen in NG worlds, and they'll eventually learn to tune out the weird white circles on the ground in DS1 because they really didn't do much of import to the average player. However, *every single player* of DS2 will roll, and will notice some weirdness with it without knowledge of ADP. Those other mechanics are esoteric not only in form, but in function. Adaptability, on the other hand, is extremely important in function, and therefore should NOT be esoteric in form as it currently is. Had the ADP stat been explained better in the menus, then it likely would have raised less eyebrows overall. The other counterpoint is that other Souls games' poorly-explained mechanics are equally valid areas of critique for just that reason, and shouldn't excuse ADP's poor communication, nor the poor communication of all the games' esoteric mechanics. Nonetheless, I do still love DS2, since I feel like it had the most experimentation out of all of the Souls series titles. Just figured I'd add to the conversation a bit, since I believe it's important to still be critical of even games that you love.
The only issue I have with this is that s aren't essential in DS2 UNLESS you try to play it like Dark Souls. At the time people expecting DS1 bounced off this without exploring the other options, back stepping, much better ranged options etc and most importantly, the oversaturated summon system. This argument only stands if s are absolutely essential and they're not.
@@LucDeTruc let me guess, mid 20's, think DS3 was the best before Elden Ring released, never played DS2, did play DS1 OR Demons Souls remake, probably not both, right?
As much as I love Dark Souls 2. I think ADP being tied to i-frames is dumb. And this is as a person who's doing a no ADP level up run right now to see how bad it is. It's certain not as bad as people make it out to be. Most videos of people getting hit come from the fact that they rolled way too early. However still dumb. Having a better roll shouldn't really be a thing. I think keeping the animation speed up with it is fine.
@@shadquirk607 I agree with this. Side stepping and spacing are far better methods of avoiding damage. Dark Souls 2 rolls are a VERY heavy stamina move. You will dodge twice and maybe get two or three hits in before being completely drained of stamina. Side stepping attacks means that you keep regenerating stamina while also avoiding moves. Also Dark Souls 2 has many directional attacks from bosses where the best option is to roll into them to avoid any lingering hitboxes.
I also believe that the Illusory Ring challenge is the definitive way to experience the game. When you can't use Bonfires, or die, all of a sudden Weapon Durability, Lifegems, patiently approaching encounters, the generous Soul Level curve, generous boss attack telegraphs, the slower pace of combat, and the sheer openness of how you can route through the game up to the Shrine of Winter all make perfect sense. Dark Souls 2 is the most consistent, methodical game out of the trilogy. And the fact that the developers put this challenge into this game specifically means they knew what to accentuate out of what the game has to offer.
Getting both rings always seemed like too much for me, but I've done the no bonfire and I completely agree. All the sudden the durability system and the 99 lifegems make so much sense
It's always enjoyable seeing people who really like this game and why, as somebody who came from ds1 and never clicked with it. My main issue was clunkiness. This mostly comes from actions feeling slow and less responsive. Also, I think the movement being in limited directions is still an issue to me even using camera. I play unlocked a lot, and will be trying to move my camera in a different direction. I agree, the repeat bosses are a big isssue in Elden Ring. It's the only major issue I have the game. I sadly was limited in my experience with the multiplayer as not long after starting ds2 I would get horrible horrible ping and my opponents would move maybe once every 30 seconds. Only ever had these issues on ds2. For the general design, it's just a preference but I don't like long boss runs. I played through the game a few months and the boss I struggled with was smelter daemon. The boss run was annoying, which just meant grinding out all the enemies in the area which was very boring. Likewise with the bonefire aesthetic. Redoing an area again afterwards doesn't sound like much fun, and once I'm at an appropriate level for ng+, I'd rather just move on. NG+ changing drops and enemy placement and encounters is very cool. That is the coolest part of DS2, but the bonfire aesthetics isn't interesting to me.
Never really understood the "clunkiness" complaint with DS2. Like, are we just going to forget how jank Demons Souls and DS1 are? Heck even the remake of DeS is kind of clunky imo. To me, it's always seemed like a superfluous claim that only serves to misrepresent the game and turn people away from it. For me, I feel like the rolling and movement system, especially when not locked on, is leagues better in DS2 than the first game.
@@Sinhesthysia DS2 being slow doesn't help it either. As jank as the former two were. DS2's movement is just much more apparent. Nobody likes being slow, moves weird, and still somehow get hit.
@@zurielschubert9410 I mean, saying nobody likes something is just flat out wrong. Because I do happen to like the slow and strategic pace of combat in this game, I think it fixed a lot of the issue that come with the very limited and basic combat system of Souls games, and it's really just not a good argument to say "I don't like DS2 so it's a bad game". Games can be good and you don't have to like them, and games can be bad and still have people who enjoy playing them.
Movement isn't an issue, you struggle with the game and use that as confirmation bias bc you've seen other people complain about it. Adjusting your movement with the camera works exactly the same as the other games and most 3rd person action games like modern Zelda. It's okay to just say it didn't click without making up problems the game doesn't have
14:44 i still think that being penalized for each death sucks in ds2. in ds3, embers feel like a buff to your character, and every subsequent death after losing that buff doesn’t penalize you so much. plus, you get embered after each boss kill which makes it feel more like that extra health was earned. in ds2 you spec into your own health pool only for it to be taken away with each death, and effigies aren’t as common (at least in my current playthrough) as embers are. That being said i’m enjoying the hell out of ds2 rn, videos like these are kinda giving me more fuel to enjoy it
In fact, whenever you see a proper DS2 video showing the actual hitboxes, you'll see that this game has the best hitboxes fromsoft have made until Sekiro and Elden Ring arrived. Most of the time the player's getting hit by those "bad hitboxes" is just a matter of the player rolling too early and the attack landing even if you think it didn't. Grab attacks? Do I have to start with Gaping dragon insta-grabbing you without any animation? The hitbox just magically appears in one of its hands and you get teleported to it. Or maybe I should speak of Nameless King grabbing attack were he just moves his lance and you get teleported to it even when you're 2 feet away? As Babbbs said, in DS2 when you get grabbed an you felt like it didn't connect, it's just a matter of replaying the video in slow motion to see that you really got hit in your foot with low agility and an early roll. The only problem is that the grab animation doesn't initiate until the roll animation finish, which is not inherently a bad thing considering that this game is from PS3 and clunky animations weren't exactly rare in that generation. Domo3000 has a great video just showing random hitboxes of the game and even some comparisons with DS1 and DS3, you'll laugh when you see that DS3's dagger has the hitbox of a club and it's the same for the player and the mobs... The only reason why nobody's complaining on DS3 horrendous hitboxes is because the game's extremely rewarding with rolls, it's almost like they wanted people to roll spam through the entire game so they didn't have to worry about actually setting good hitboxes and designing bosses that aren't just a mindless spam of non-stopping combos. They gave DS3 a Bloodborne's type of gameplay that rewards the aggression but... In a game where you don't really have the meanings to be that aggressive. Yeah, I like to say bad things about DS3 even though I loved the game, but DS3 babysitters are everywhere and they love to attack any other game of the franchise, so I just do the same qjwineqjkwnesñdfasdf
@@mooonlitknights47 Hypotheticals? Everything I said was real, you can watch the video of Domo3000 showing the hitboxes of both games, DS3 hitboxes are way worse than DS2's The only real thing where DS3 is better is in average boss quality, as DS3's bosses are outstanding (will some exceptions though) But for pretty much anything besides boss battles, DS3 is not better, and it is worse in some cases, like exploration and build variety
@@prettyradhandle As I said before, DS3 tries too much to be Bloodborne in that regard while having nothing of Bloodborne's mechanics to actually make the player THAT much aggressive. DS2 is not "lacking" in aggressive playstyle, as you can't be aggressive on Demon's or DS1 either, it's not a mistake, is just that the game is not made for that, and there's not a single enemy in the game that feels like you should be able to move faster. On DS3 in the other hand... You have bosses that are as fast as some Bloodborne bosses while the Ashen One is not near as mobile and agile as the Good Hunter Bosses like Champion Gundyr who feels absurdly aggressive wouldn't be that much of a threat against the hunter, but in DS3 you don't really have that many weapons to attack in those extremely tiny windows of opportunity that Gundyr has on his second phase, the boss renders useless 90% of the builds in the game but Parry and/or light dex weapons. Then again, I didn't say that the Ashen One can't be aggressive, I just said that the game has a Bloodborne-ish design for enemies movement while the Ashen One is not as agile as the hunter, BUT, if you're comparing the Ashen One to the rest of the souls... Yeah, I'd say that he's easily way more agile than those before him, but the Tarnished is better in that aspect.
I have been trying to complete DS2 several times but have gone back to DS3 each time. Now I see it's because I really just have missed these mechanics and have not been understanding the peculiarities of the game. Thanx a lot for this eye-openning video. Hope this time Flume Knight won't be my last boss in the run.
Based, DS2 was not my first game, Demons souls was, I played them in order and really loved them about equally back then. Coming back to them I realized DS2 is the best aged from just how much of a really good ass video game package it is overall. Demons Souls second, then Dark Souls 1 are all so amazing to replay. From just what all is super viable to the classic Iron Keep bridge dragon fight nights especially on the weekends this game just has so damn much. Its very mechanically rich, like one of those 2000's games that you discover stuff decades after still.
One counterpoint to the adaptability thing you mention (which I'm stealing mostly from noah caldwell-gervais) is that there _is_ actually an implicit problem with the adaptability i-frames mechanic, which is that it doesn't translate narratively in a reasonable way, and therefore doesn't make sense from the player's perspective unless they get outside help. Equip load governs roll distance, and adaptability completely separately governs i-frames, but that division doesn't make any sense from a narrative standpoint. It only makes sense when considered explicitly from the perspective of the game designer trying to not make one stat too powerful. Because that division is so unnatural, it makes the mechanic feel vague and makes it hard for the player to understand what they're even doing when they level it up. This is true even when you divorce DS2 from the context of the other souls games (in other words, it's not just an artifact of the game introducing a new mechanic). This is made worse by the fact that i-frames are not really a mechanic, they're an implementation detail. There's no narrative reason why your roll makes you invincible for a short time. In other words, i-frames are not something the player should ever have to be aware of _at all,_ but making adaptability specifically affect i-frames separately from equip load _forces_ the player to learn about that implementation detail if they want to be effective at the game. That being said, I do think DS2 gets a bad rap because it gets over-compared to the other games, so I'm glad to see the DS2 renaissance blossoming lately on youtube :)
I like ds2 sotfs even more than I like elden ring, and I've played thousands of hours of that. My guess is that many people don't like adventure games, they'd rather have a boss rush game.
Ok soo thats a wiiiild opinion. I love Softs, it’s the first souls game I ever played, but Softs better than elden ring? I dont know mannnnn. 😅 I’ll give credit where it’s due though, Dark Souls 2 incorporated so many experimental ideas that were polished in the later games. Power Stancing, special movesets, build variety. Other unique mechanics like the looking glass knight boss invaders, playing on the dlc without owning the dlc, etc. Dark Souls 2 despite having questionable level design choices also had like some really unique mechanics, like the unfreezing of eleum loyce, the activation of the iron tower, and the hidden pressure plates of the sunken city, burning down the windmill in the earthen peak, and the soul golems in Drangleic castle. Without Dark Souls 2 as the stepping stone, many of these things that came after it would not have been possible.
That is a good reason. It's more an adventure than an action game. Ds1 lent more to combat (as well as better feeling combat) so people who weren't too into the adventure aspect could enjoy. Not sure how I'd scale them but there definitely is a fading of the adventure elements. I hope they reverse it in a future game.
Maybe you are the only UA-camr who explains why and how Dark Souls 2, even UA-camrs in my own country (Indonesia) really don't like this game because he can't explain it himself like you, you get new subscribers✌️
My main problem with the game is that every action your character performs ends with a noticeable pause during which you can't do anything. Swing a sword, wait for another 250ms before you can raise the shield up even though the animation's finished. Because of this, often the best approach is to be the number 2 in turn order during combat. You wait for opponent to finish their combo, then do your attack while they're recovering. Whenever you try to be number 1, you get slapped in the face by opponent's counter, even if you reacted in time and pressed the dodge button, then you see the character perform the queued action after it's already too late. The 1st game and 3rd also have this somewhat, but not to this extent, if your weapon isn't inherently slow then you can play very aggressively as number 1. That said i really like the game's world aesthetics and how the story took a brave new turn compared to DS3. In my mind, DS2 develops the world so much better than DS3 did, it's a crime how DS3 just threw most things into the trash bin like it never existed, leaving only minor references.
DS2 is my favourite of the series. Has so much more character and personality than ER. I love how you've tackled the problems it has, as well as tried to recontextualise them. Hitbox section is breath of fresh air, but the shopping cart analogy is spot on. DS2 has a quirky sense of humour that does not connect with most people. Those of us who love it know each other.
"Make sure to put points into ADP early on" The is the most popular and completely irrelevant take ever in DS2... I barely ever level adp past like 10, and never had a problem... In fact my first time ever beating the game I did it with 8 adp
Level ADP is bad advice too. Content creators should tell you to pay attention to agility. 92/99 are the first soft caps, and 99 is equivalent to a DS1 roll. You can get this from leveling attunement too so if you're a caster you don't necessarily want to dump points into ADP immediately. AGL also effects how quickly you use items, switch weapons, and raise shield.
@@timefades27 ok... but what I'm saying is that You don't necessarily need to level adp. It took awhile but I got comfortable with 6 ADP rolls, it's difficult, but you know what I didn't need to level that shit once, instead I got more damage, more health and a versatile functional build. Also yes leveling ADP early, is really fast... but after like lvl 50, you will very rarely be able to level, leaving you with no actual damage or other stats, because you dumped half of them into ADP... And yes you are right, it also scales with Attunement, which is a much MUCH more useful stat.
Balance is about tuning the level of difficulty to whatever is desired. If anything, giving the bosses generous hitboxes like the player is imbalanced, as the bosses already wield much larger, more damaging weapons. The question to ask is, "Is this fun?" Does it provide good visual feedback? And so forth.
I'll say my point, Manual Lock-on aiming is far too revolutionary, that shit needs two tech guys in a lab teaching it as they point it out how the camera works. It would make a nice menu option to discover, but lock-on locks on for a reason. So you don't whiff attacks via manual controls.
Generally the lock on - aiming your attacks doesnt post too much of an issue because a lot of weapons have horizontal attack patterns, however the mechanic really comes into play when you have weapons with thrusting/vertical attack patterns. Then it feels like its a problem with the game because now you are missing attacks while locking on. Personally i love the ability to attack in a seperate direction where im aiming, i love that Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring have the option to disable lock-on auto-aiming your attacks, meaning i can be locked on to the most important enemy while attacking other enemies off-camera. A bit of a seperate rant: Though if Dark Souls 2 has taught me anything, its to not *rely* on the lock-on mechanic. Its a great tool for newer players, or for when you fight enemies 1 on 1, but with larger enemies/bosses or fighting multiple creatures its best to stay not locked on. Too many times i see my friends die because they're fighting multiple enemies but because of lock-on, they're tunnel-visioned on the single enemy.
@coreymeredith4001 The skill curve for lock-on is so odd in that most people I watch try to play these games for the first time will continually forget that they can do it and have a really hard time connecting their attacks. Then they usually start to use it ALL the time and get better but eventually realize how much more you can do without being locked on. I guess it’s kinda like training wheels but not in a condescending way, it can be really helpful for new players and even experienced ones
@@nickoliekeyov746 Yeah i agree completely, it's wierd, but when you master non-locked on combat you have free reign to attack who you want when you want. I was playing some elden ring yesterday with my Str/Fth build and i was trying to snipe enemies using the frenzied flame spell and i could not lock on to the enemy i wanted to in a group, so i just free aimed a fire bomb instead and hit him (that skill came from ds3 pvp)
@@coreymeredith4001 I gotta practice more free aiming projectiles cause I’m still terrible at that lol, haven’t really needed to do it much but I do really like manually aiming with bows and other sniping stuff, I think they’re criminally underutilized in all the games
@@nickoliekeyov746 Manually aiming bows and freeaiming fore bombs are skills you develop in pvp, because locking on makes it super easy for your opponent to know where the firebomb is going to land The classic way to throw a firebomb is to throw it at your feet, because people usually roll towards you when you throw one meaning youll catch them off guard
13:16 This honestly feels like a grift or cope. DS1 movement you needn’t master because it was intuitive. Using the camera for omnidirectional movement is a remedy for the lack of a tool. It may come as a shock, but DS1 you can do both.
DS2 was the last Souls-Game I picked up, mainly because of it's reputation, but to my surprise I really loved it. It just clicked with me almost immediately. For one I love the vibe of the game. It feels more like an adventure through old kingdoms a little as if someone crossed dark Souls with Uncharted and for some reason it really works for me. The NPCs, the way you discover new and visually completely different areas so frequently really made me feels I was on this fantastic adventure. I also adore the build variety. Out of all the games this one encourages you the most to play around with different builds and weapons, mostly because they are just cool, but also by giving you additional levels and many upgrade materials. It also provides the most creativity with powerstancing and funky cool weapon arts. Also levelling and infusing weapons is so much improved from the previous games it's insane. I made heavy use of the wiki and bonfire ascetics to cobble my build together and I had the most fun character building out of any of the games (Elden Ring included) Even though I haven't mastered the movement system at all I like it a lot more than DS1s. The fact that the jump-button in DS2 is actually functionable and does feel good to use makes it wild to me that they went back to the horrible old jump for 2 more games. Regarding the enemies and areas it never bothered me. I like the more methodical and careful approach to getting though an area and lo and behold the game actually gives you the tool you need to do that, like making bows and crossbows actually viable, so that you can pick away some enemies from afar. Am I the only one that actually likes the Hollowing system in DS2? I never used that ring outside of like the first hour of the game. Other than that I just let my health dwindle until i felt it necessary and useful to use an effegy. And at least the effegy-economy was spot on. I always had just enough to comfortably use the effegys to reverse the hollowing effect. When to use them felt like an interesting choice I had to make when to use them most effectively while managing the amount i had left. I like it a lot more than in DS3, because here it is an actual core mechanic, whereas in DS3 it felt tacked on and also made balancing really weird, because embering gives so much HP. The hitboxes are for the most part fair, but it is an unfortunate combination of the Agility mechanic, the way the game handles grab-animations and how it handles staggers (like you'd often not get staggered at all while taking damage which makes people think the damage was unfair in the first place). I am on the fence when it comes to agility. On one hand it can create interesting build choices, on the other I am generally not a fan of locking core player abilities within the progression system. It makes levelling ADP not really a choice, which is kind of the most interesting thing about levelling up and allocating your stats. At the same time the devs compensated for that with giving the player much more souls, designing bosses/enemy's movesets in a way where strafing and outspacing is totally viable and disincentivizing spamming roll because of the insane amount of stamina it eats. Overall eh, but it is time for people to stop complaining, just level it a little and it's fine. So yeah, overall I really love the game and I am happy, that Fromsoft seem to reintroduce some of the ideas from DS2 instead of just dropping all the good ideas from that game.
And you have not even talked about the lore. The characters. The tragedy of lucatiel. Of every poor soul that made its way to drangleic. The game is beautiful and somber. So much has been forgotten. And so much will be forgotten still. What made me fall in love with ds1 was the atmosphere. Just how much is conveyed despite so much being hidden. Ds2 is no where near that. But its a beautiful continuation and it saddens me to no end that ds3 just threw all of it out for a more straightforward but more meta plot. And so much retreading of old ground. Also, I encurage everyone to replay the frigid outskirts with summons. Its genuinely one of my favorite experiences in any fromsoft game.
This was one of the best videos I've ever watched in a while. I could feel the passion you had for DS2 in every second. I wish the video was longer though, I could watch you talk for hours. DS2 is one of my favorite as well and definitely my favorite souls game. Please make a part 2 😭
Only got to play DS2 pvp last year, despite playing it on 360 on release. I really play it as respectfull as possible. Sometimes I get a good match. But others are so sweaty. Like my build is of a hexer for pve and I only use meelee on arena, but sometimes the player is so sweaty (like using a bow on the bridge). Like man, we are on Vanilla, be thankful you had another player to fight. And I lost multiple times to him, only won twice, the last I just left after. Or when I was invaded twice on Belfry Sol and the two jumped on me. I on the other hand let them deal with the enemies when I invade. Like when I was on sl1 and I let this newby heal once because an enemy attacked. I ended it no hit.
PvP is one of the few things this game does best, I'd argue. Definitely experiment with anything and everything, you'd be shocked at just how viable and even fun many options are. Even seemingly worthless spells like "Shockwave" and "Soul Spear Barrage" offer utility that your stronger spells cannot. The opponent keeps dodging your Soul Arrows? Cast Barrage, watch them roll under three of the little pellets and eat the rest. Shockwave, on the other hand, is a wonderful tool to use for inducing panic. It'll pancake people and instantly break through small and some medium shields, and can be free-aimed at your feet to (literally) trip up aggressive players. And that's just base game Sorcery spells. Pyromancy and Hexes offer more, and the DLCs introduce things like Soul Flash. Go wild.
23:20 you can see a lot of this in Elden ring too. Way mor ganks sure but it’s always nice to see someone choose not to heal, emote to signal duel start, and make sure to one v one. My favorite invasion was invading a full lobby and having them stand aside and watch while I dueled one of the fingers. Then a hunter popped up and he watched. When I won then I dueled the hunter and they watched. When I beat him then I dueled the next finger, and I won. Then we repeated this until the host, and winning that felt satisfying. It was like a boss rush and there was so much honor that it just was a blast to complete.
"This game has better level design than the later games if you play it as the developpers intended, it's not artificial difficulty it's a different kind of difficuly that complements this game specifically" It doesn't make for bad difficulty necessarily but "artificial" is very much the word I'd use to describe plenty of levels in DS2. They don't look real, they look like video game levels and the developper's intent (or limitations) are just too obvious. The footage shows Iron Keep as the example. I have plenty of issues with how wasted the interesting Alonne knights are in this short, featureless and badly paced level but let's focus on a single point; the beflry bonfire is in a cavity in the ground that your character cannot climb out of. It makes no sense as to why anybody would build this random hole like this unless you look at it from the developper's perspective : to push you into the multiplayer zone. In the original release, you could climb the ladder then drop down onto the side of the cavity, thus negating the need to go through the multiplayer zone, it was a very silly workaround but hey, it worked. In SOTFS, they added some cage to make that impossible. Again none of this is credible in anyway, it is all transparently the developpers wanting to push you to go a certain way without any attempt to make it look sensical, doublng down in SOTFS. It is just a video-game level. That to me is as artifical as it gets. Difficulty is always artificial in video-games but it's the presentation, the context that makes it feel warranted or not. DS2 so often doesn't bother to hide its challenge under a veneer of believability, as a result, whether something is fun or not depends largely on how much you enjoy the challenge for challenge's sake and not for any other parameter. For that alone, I can't agree that it's better than its successors because even if following the developper's intent results in a technically better level-design (which I don't agree with anyway), I don't think we should play games while considering "what do the devs intend for me to do ?", the world should immerse you and speak for itself. Here's a good example of DS2 : the weird long-armed beasts in the pirate's cove. For one, it's a pirate cove ! The theming of the level isn't a confusing mess like Earthen Peak, you can tell what it is just by looking around, it's not exactly the most creative place you'll ever see but it's well done. For 2, the beasts are always in the dark, there are torches where they aren't, you can intuit that they don't like the light and the human inhabitants clearly know it since they have a switch to turn on the lights which makes all the beasts recoil. But you can also just light a torch in one hand to push them away. All of that is credible. You're not thinking about devs intent while going through it because it's all easy to make sense of. It's cool. It's neat. It's unique. It gives flavor to that level which I'd argue is underrated, I wish DS2 was more like this and less like Iron Keep.
DS2 made me want to know more about the game world. DS1 was dark spectacle and DS3 met expectations, but DS2 was the only one out of the three that made me curious.
Honestly such an underrated video. You did a great job discussing and analyzing all of the arguments people bring up for why they do and don't like the game and you honestly taught me a bunch of stuff I didn't know about the movement mechanics. Also you deserve way more subs dude, great vid
Lota of unneccesary coping. Dark souls 2 is a good game, but its very flawed, and people are right to criticize it, even when its issues exist in the other souls titles. To point number 1: You literally just handwaved the bad hitboxes as the player misunderstanding them. Even if that were the case, its created a frustrating experience, where you can't trust the games visual cues consistently. A mild annoyance during early game 1v1s, a bigger issue during gank squads, and an even bigger frustration in the DLC boss fights. Every game has imperfect hitboxes(this happens in all the games), but the frequency of Dark Souls 2 bad hitboxes, combined with the way hitboxes are drawn makes for a flawed experience. I mean the footage speaks for itself, even if there is a technical explanation, its still not acceptable. 2. ADP is bad because it creates an inconsistent experience. To most players, they don't understand what it does, and as a result, play a vastly more difficult game than the first Demon or Dark souls. When you do figure it out, it creates the opposite issue where it makes most encounters piss easy. The default should have been base Dark souls, because it was already effective, and gives the players more consistent results with their rolls. This isn't the biggest issue imo, but it basically makes balancing content more tricky for Fromsoft than needed. 3. The movement in Dark souls 2 is not as good as the other souls games. I can't explain it fully, but me moving in Demon Souls, and Dark souls felt good. Like I was in control. And the combat animations were snappy, and allowed you to cancel out making it easier for the players to react. I don't think the 8 directional movement is the core issue in Dark souls 2, because you can just lock off and be fine. But the animations themselves and how much time it takes to recover from said animations creates this boggy feeling. Again, not easy to explain, but I just have more fun controlling my player character playing Demon souls or Dark Souls naturally. Zero Lenny made a great video explaining this visually. 4. Human Effigys are not a big criticism people push about the games. If anything, its lifegems. But on the note of human effigys, they are fine, and I agree with you that its more forgiving than it was in Demon Souls. Now I wasn't the biggest fan of it when it was present in Demon Souls(mainly because 50% is rather discouraging), but it is an intentional design decision, to encourage the player to go to human form and be in online play more often than not. So I'm ok with it in the souls games as its been tweaked in 2 and 3. 5. Dark souls isn't an MMO. Some people will play the content in Co-op and its fine. However, a good sizable amount of people will try to challenge themselves to beat the games in single player. The prior games established a reputation of tough but fair. Nothing about the areas scream tough but fair. Just enemy spam before a boss. I would maybe agree if the bosses were more raidy, but they are all pretty on par with the rest of the games design. If this were the case, there should be variations of these runs. One with friends, maybe with better drops or unique enemies. And then a route thats actually fair and meant to be played singleplayer. Try to defend the Sir Alonne bossrun and tell me that encounter(which is a duel of swords) was designed first as a co op boss. 6. On the point of the foggate, here is the thing. If you want to fight a boss, and let's say its a good boss, the game will probably put a couple enemies in your way as a challenge. If you clear them all out, then run to the foggate, great. If you don't first try the boss though, you will have to repeat that experience. Its fine once or twice, but if you were learning a boss, and found yourself dying to them many times, then at some point you are going to start running past the content. Why would I continue the same challenge when I demonstrate mastery once, or repeatedly? Dark souls 2 alleviates this in a clumsy way, by despawning enemies after kiling them numerous times, but thats still several runs where you have to clear enemies. This isn't the worst thing, but it is a big issue with a few areas. Iron Keep is not a fun run for this reason, especially given how the enemies are laid out. Sir Alonne is the other horrible one, where again, I ask is the intention for you to clear out the entire level, or to make a mad dash to the foggate. I just think at the end of the day, removing fog gate invincibility is just creating artificial difficulty and frustration. A better way to handle this would be to give the player invincibility through the foggate after the first time you enter through it without I-frames. Or maybe just create a shortcut so the player can skip right to that battle in these problem areas. 7. Bonfire ascetics are awesome, but most players don't give a shit about new game plus features, considering they drop the game once they are finished. I'm not into the whole(just put 100 hours into it, it gets better). I want to enjoy my first playthrough. Dark Souls 1 was brilliant for me in the first half, that it made the second half tolerable. There was a lot of content and stuff I didn't see, as well as stuff in New Game plus to try to do, but it wasn't neccesary for me to be hooked. For the souls vets, its a great feature, but it doesn't really do anything to make the first run or impression of the game better. That being said, I'd like to see it return because most players would love the opoortunity to refight certain bosses after their first clear(Nameless king or Gael for example would be even more fun if ascetics were availalble, if at least in a New game plus run). Again, I think if you asked most souls vets, they love ascetics and wish they were a staple. Anyway, I yapped too much. It's just staggering how many Dark Souls 2 essays defending the game, fail to focus on the good, and instead fumble the ball by defending obviously flawed game design.
Honestly i feel like DS2 put a lot more emphasis on co-op (even though soul memory made it a pain). But it also fits the story, you trying to become the new monarch. A leader! With subjects and retainers! Not by being ”the chosen undead”! The game even asks ”The next monarch?” Quickly followed by ”Or merely a pawn of fate?” as to hint to the other theme of the game.
I love your view here, but that Diablo 2 comparison feels a bit off. Diablo is designed around the loot system people replay content because there's the chance of a rare drop. The content is also easier, not really geared toward challenge. People don't fight the same bosses because they thought those bosses were fun.
Something something ADP Souls 2: Scholar of the First Gank Edit: Also, at 5:48 that’s not a hitbox issue, that’s a latency issue 11:32 you have s on backsteps in ds1, they’re just incredibly limited, even with the flip ring. Probably something to do with ADP increasing your backstep s too 15:03 Whataboutism is a logical fallacy just FYI 18:13 Whataboutism is a logical fallacy just FYI 18:48 Well, if we're going off that logic then Belfry Gargoyles and Scorpioness Najka are both repeat bosses because they're copied ideas from DS1 as well, making it 86% Overall, a pretty good video, however, I can’t say that I enjoyed it. I also can’t say that I enjoyed DS2 after having played through it six times.
5:48 look up domo3000 for proper comparisons, I was just prioritizing my own footage as often as I could 11:32 no, you do not. you're right that they're limited. limited to literally 0. darkwood ring or not. 15:03 you're using this to dismiss arguments you don't like, if someone argued the opposite you wouldn't care if it was a whataboutism 18:13 this isn't even relevant in either of these timestamps 18:48 that's a STRETCH. I only included old dragonslayer because it was the same model with the same animations. gargoyles and najka are unique assets with wildly different movesets to their DS1 "counterparts". also "copied ideas" means nothing. elden ring has a fight with gargoyles in the name, and you'd be an idiot to argue thats the same as ds1 gargs. also 86% vs. 48%. my point still stands.
19:13 “ds1’s movement is easier to learn, but not as fun to master” ds1 also has backstep iFrames which are great, and also ds1 (and demons) has the most complex movement system besides maybe elden ring (due to jumping) because it has really cool stuff like reverse rolling, barrel rolling, which is super useful in PvE too, and raviolis
No one who ever goes through the AGILITY = IFRAMES argument every mentions how Attunement also increases Agility. Yes, that's how the mage/cleric with a ton of spells/miracles and 3 ADP rolls through your attacks.
@@BabsOfEao ATN doesn't stack Agility as quickly as ADP, but my end game mages always have minimum 99 Agility purely from ATN, so I have no idea what you're on about.
@@NichtDjkfjvzkt Yeah, i'm aware it's not one for one. But my point, again, was that it ALSO builds Agility and eventually gets you there for mage/cleric builds.
@@dj_daem0n completely agree. You level fast enough in DS2 that by the end I almost always am running some form of a battle mage even on a str or dex build, so I almost never actually up my ADP and can roll just fine
Required dump stats that actively hamper the core gameplay experience if you forego them are in fact bad design Removing directional movement is in fact bad design Framing things as punishments or bonuses is in fact an important aspect of game design Tacked on low effort areas are in fact bad design No single problem in a vacuum is a gamebreaker, but lots and lots(and lots) of little things add up to make the game worse
I know you needed the disclaimer at the beginning but I have over 300 hours in dark souls 2 and don't need anyone to tell me it's shit. I just like hearing people say it. I still appreciate your video even though you like it.
Dark Souls 2 is probably the game I've put the most hours into in any of the DS trilogy. It helps that it's longer than 1 and 3, but there's also way more you can do on every playthrough that encourages replayability.
So i will say this, DS2 was my first souls game. I love it. However, i think it is probably the worst souls title. I say this for a few reasons. I find that a lot of the reasons you showed love to this game are not features warrented or wanted in a souls game. I once read someone saying that it's a great game but a bad souls game, and i wholeheartedly agree. For starters, the ADP was full on a bad choice, and i will die on this hill. The frame rates of my character should not take away from my actual character build. As to why anyone would want this, im not sure. In a souls game, a series with renowned difficulty as a main feature, this was an unnecessary added layer. You said at one point that you shouldn't be running to the bosses, as you're missing part of the point. The exploration, the item gathering, etc. I get that and also understand that they included the enemies' respawn limits to help serve the purpose of helping those out. That limit is somewhere between 12-15 if i recall correctly. That is an absolutely asinine amount, man. It should not take that many attempts to fully explore an area, and that gets made all the more annoying when considering the importance of durability and dying. Both of which can cause enemies in the areas to be at different respawn levels, becoming a pain to track. The idea of exploration mixed with available boss runs was handled way better in later titles such as elden ring. This turns most maps into a slow grind fest as you make your way through those insane 12-15 respawns every area to make it to the boss. Unacceptable, in my opinion. This is more of a personal gripe, but i hold some amount of resentment towards any game that requires me to do a new game plus to get the full experience of it. Some games handle it well, such as nier automata, but DS2 is certainly not a great example of it. I do appreciate that it handled letting you see these things early via the asthetic system, but i think the regular souls games handled this better by just adding a bit more lore there instead of whole new interactions and information tidbits which are integral to the understanding of its lore, one of my personal favorite parts of these games. I also wanna comment on how poorly this game handled the series traditions of looping back to old areas. The giant memories felt like a very poor idea to me as a way to pull you back to old areas and was an incredible disappointment considering the beauty of how they were handled in DS1. In the first game, this truly felt like a great show of how connected the world was and still felt like progress where as DS2 made this feel more like an abrupt slow down of pace and only further fueled my issues with its world layout. I blame this partially on the devleopera making teleportation available from the beginning instead of making it an earned reward, but that's another personal gripe. Souls games have always had multiplayer be a seemless part of the world, and i approve of how they handle it. I still think the idea of creating areas for the soul purpose of encouraging multiplayer to be in bad taste. They may be adding nothing completely new, but one day when the servers no longer maintain good player bases this will leave them with poorly performing AI partners who will attempt to fight everything in their path, looping back to my issues with lacking in efficient boss runs. The hollowing mechanic in DS2 is a beautiful example of a concept that is great on paper, horrible in execution. This is a fantastic execution of the idea behind hollowing. Slowly loosing yourself to the curse, and it's really cool.Thiss issu, however, lies in execution. You mentioned the ring of hollowing to help limit thi, and yes, you're absolutely correct that it helps. That does not, however, make it a good way to handle this. Just like the ADP stat, this is another example of DS2 requiring me to divert parts of my build to help handle or adjust its bad design choices. My build should not need to have itself diminished or made less powerful for the sake of maintaining this. The gank fights this game poses can, for a lot of people, be a horrible turn-off. Both the boss versions and the regular ones within areas. SOTFS then proceeded to double down on that philosophy and add more enemies in sneakier places to surprise players. This one depends on player personality, but I'll admit i found this to be a bad choice when considering the previously mentioned issues of no real boss runs, slow area grinds, durability limits being quite serious, etc. I know. I've said a lot of negative here, but i truly do love DS2. It introduced me to a series that has, by no small means, helped shape me a person. It did many great things for the series. I love its additions of powerstancing, i will stare at some of its environments for hours and bask in their majestic views and ambience, the music is some of my personal favorite (looking at you majula theme), and more. None of this is to say i disliked your video. I actually was really happy to see it. It reminds me how different things can catch the attention and both the love and/or ire of an audience. We both love this game for different reasons, but regardless, it matters. Thanks for defending this classic, my dude. Praise the sun and dont you dare go hollow my friend.
Those why-ds2-sucks videos actually inspired me to play ds2 again! It's funny how people don't know how to approach areas methodically and blame the game for something those people failed to learn. These people don't shoot long range enemies. They just run in with their broadsword, triggering every gank point, and rush to the fog wall and get hit... it's quite hilarious. Though I tried doing that in Elden Ring, and the game became a whole lot easier, which made me respect ds2 a bit more. I'm happy to learn that pvp etiquette is a ds2 thing. I'm proud of our community!
My main gripe with SOTFS is the petrified enemies that you need to use fragrant branches of yore on. It is a cool idea but imo there are too many statues and not enough readily available branches for a new player to not get confused and possibly miss out on cool content.
13:02 "this is one of those games" no, this is a buggy mess of a movement system that could have been decent if it weren't for all the bugs such as direction snapping and makin the player hit in the complete opposite direction they aimed randomly
Pretty sure I remember back step iframing that barrel in undead burg just after the Pine resin in ds1 but has been a long time maybe ive miss remembered it
@@unrefinedmorosis5546There are, however it’s an incredibly small window of opportunity. Something like four s. However backsteps on DS1 also have infinite hyper armor meaning you can trivialize a lot of traps by backstepping through them, such as the barrel in Undead Burg or the ball trap in the Asylum
Despite beating the game several times I somehow never noticed the dragon knights bowing, even when I did 1v1 the big knights and they let me pass I somehow ignored it or didn’t notice them or forgot that happened immediately after. That area was one of my least favourite because of all the enemies, but really I’m just super stupid. And those stone knights in heide’s tower, well I just never trusted them and so never settled for fighting that middle guy, always thinking the other two enemies would surround me if I didn’t try and leave quickly
"ADP isnt communicated to new players" Theres a tool, that you showed you using, that allows you to read what stats do. If they used that to then hover over the AGL stat, like you didnt show for whatever reason, they would see it explains that it governs their rolls effectiveness.
Governs roll effectiveness is as helpful as a stat that tells players it governs weapon effectiveness - it should have said that agility adds i-frames to your rolls
@@nickoliekeyov746 Japanese game translated to english, also the average player that wouldnt know what "invincibility frames" are would be more confused, saying it makes roll dodging more effective is a perfectly fine choice, stop being hate biased and finding poor excuses to discredit the game
Just like is said in the video, the soulsborne series is no stranger to leave mechanics unexplained to the player. This can already be a controversial matter, and theres for sure an interesting conversation in regards of how much agency the games give to learn driven by our own commitment. However, in my opinion, and as the video also points out, the difference lies in not making the player aware of the change of a fundamental mechanic of the previous games, while also only making this information accessible either by a tool that most players aren't well aware of, or worse, an external source of information. In hindsight, it's easy to see not only the issue, but what you could have done to understand it in the first place, the problem is the player with no idea of the inner workings of the game, and trust set in their previous knowledge, has no clue to be guided to this realization, but rather to a feeling of frustration. Granted, adaptation is a quality that tends to be very troublesome in gamers, but is understandable to see so many crash in their own expectations in a game that has no means to ease that transition.
@@angrymedic3803Why anyone that has no knowledge about what is the real problem happening would search specifically there? As I said, it's easy to say it when you are coming from the solution, but a player that doesn't even know what it's the problem has absolutely no reason to check in the first place.
same for me bro, and i started with demon's souls ps3 back in the days, played all FS games, i lived the FS evolution, i tried every pvp and ds2 pvp IS THE BEST EXPERIENCE I'VE EVER HAD IN THESE GAMES. (iron keep fight clubs
I really enjoy Dark Souls 2 but these defenses of it are absurd IMO. Any argument to the effect of "that was the intent!" fundamentally misses the point that the intent makes zero difference to the result. On top of that, any argument of what players should and shouldn't be doing in order to enjoy the game is nonsense.
Okay we shouldnt tell the players what they should be doing to enjoy the game. Now we have a player who is playing XCOM and refusing to not only use cover but then he exclusively only takes shots wich got a under 30% chance to hit. The player now calls XCOM the worst game to ever exist and when people point out he plays like a idiot who is setting himself up to lose by refusing to change how he plays he goes and says "I shouldnt be doing that to enjoy the game". Would you take any of this players words seriously or call his IQ to be too low to even understand hypotheticals.
"Any argument of what the players should and shouldn't be doing in order to enjoy the game is nonsense" So, if you have someone playing Battlefield with knife only, they refuse to jump on a vehicle, they refuse to use a firearm, they refuse to use granades, they refuse to use absolutely any tool the game gives them BUT the knife. They found themselves getting killed from 1 mile away everytime they reach open areas, and when people say that they SHOULD be using firearms in their FIRST PERSON SHOOTER, they just say that the game has poor design and the game should be made for people who only wants to use knives and doesn't use any of the 120 different weapons that the devs took years developing just for the people to brutaly ignore them to use the knife. No, every game has a given way for you to play it. You are not intended to play bloodborne with your bare hands, you're not intended to play Sekiro without parrying, you're not intended to play Elden Ring without Torrent, you're not intended to play DS2 rushing everysingle area of the game like a headless chicken. Try any of those options and you're going to get destroyed by the game and you're going to complain about how the game is poorly designed just because you refused to adapt on how the game's intended to be played. If a given area is intended to be played on co-op but you have the option to play it solo, then you HAVE to know that you're taking a high risk because you have a huge handicap from the beginning, the area is supposed to be played with 2-3 players so there will be a proper amount of enemies for those 2-3 players to fight. If you play it solo and get ganked, that's not the game's fault, that's your mistake from trying solo something that's intended to be played in group, if you don't like it, it doesn't mean it's a bad game, it just means that the game is not for you, and that's it
12:15 "you can just move the camera" it doesn't matter if you can turn by moving the camera, having controls that snap the player in an incorrect direction is objectively a flaw that never shod have existed in the first place
Something you don't like is not an objective flaw. Many Games have snap movement (e.g. Zelda BOTW) DS2 is just one of those. Are all those Games objectively flawed?
@@holler_pit5243 if something doesn't work the way it's supposed to, going against all other instances and screwing with the player then it is objectively a flaw and none of your mental gymnastics that would put a 4:th dimensional being to shame will ever change that fact
@@thefastsnake3015 Could you at least provide something to support that a) the movement in DS2 doesn't work or doesn't work like it's supposed to and b) how it's screwing with players before claiming something as fact. Also what is "going against all other instances" supposed to mean?
@@thefastsnake3015 How is that Zelda example bs? If you don't have the game yourself there's plenty of footage online where you can see links movement. And again those are not the only games that have this kind of movement.
Fun fact: DS3 fall damage is calculated as if your have Embered health, whether you are Embered or not. So in essence, for fall damage at least, if you aren't Embered you are at 70% max HP, and you are put at 100% max HP if you use an Ember. It is literally semantics, the games (DeS, DS2, DS3) are designed around different amounts of max HP, and people still complain about it. Soulsborne NG+ loops are a good idea, but as so far implemented, they are not nearly enough of a change to be worthwhile... for the most part, and it's not like it's impossible to make NG+ amazing, Fromsoft just hasn't made the choices that would make NG+ amazing. Perhaps they should look to Nier Automata or the Zero Escape Series NG+ experiences, and while Diablo incentivizes replays and extended playing, grinding isn't a thing everyone enjoys... plus DS2 loot stats are static, there's no surprise of finding an armor piece with a bit more defense or a weapon with a modifier that makes it better for a certain infusion.
I had so much nostalgia for this game. I remember being late to the party with 1 so I made sure to play this one at launch. I never got around to playing the DLC and forgot I bought the SotFS edition. I think its time to give this another go
If you’re a true DS enjoyer, then everything ‘different and quirky’ about this game is a feature to be explored and enjoyed. There are new challenges not offered by the other games. As with the other games though, you will have great success with creative problem solving, patience, composure, and resistance to greed. As stated in the video, when you master an aspect of this game then you will come to love it too.
This is such a bad take. It doesn't make you any less of a "true DS enjoyer" to take issues with the game. Being a fan of something does not mean blindly accepting and enjoying all aspects of something.
@@MarioFromMario Without rewatching the video, I don’t think you’re reading my comment in relation to the message of the video. 9 years of this game for me and I love it more as I learn more with each play through. Everyone is in a different stage of discovery and frustration regarding the games, but those who have played them all and still want challenge and variety will often come back to this game for the reasons I laid out above, and beyond.
The “extra health” argument is a bit bad faith in my opinion when you don’t even consider 1) the state your character starts in at the beginning of the game. 2) the ways in which you can reach that state. And 3) the state most players will naturally lean into. Demon’s Souls and Dark Souls 2 are arguably on similar ground but one major difference is that upon defeating a boss in DeS the game rewards you with returning your character to their beginning state. DS2 doesn’t do this. DS3 has you start out in an unembered form. This is your base state. When you’re embered it’s like you’re going super saiyan. It’s not health you lost upon your first death it’s bonus health that you gained either through using a consumable or defeating a boss. Pretending that the “hollow” states between DS2 and DS3 are one to one is dishonest. I can die to Iudex Gundry a hundred times and nothing happens to my health. Upon one death to the Last Giant or the Pursuer and I’m already at a disadvantage. Also most people will play these games in a “hollow” state but those two states are very different across the games. In DS1 it’s simply a cosmetic change. In three you power down and lose the spiky golden hair and health bonus, only regaining it upon defeating a boss or using an ember for an out of estus heal and In DeS and DS2 you loose a ring slot. All of this to say that DS3 did it best. Also you’ll never convince me that DS2 doesn’t feel infinitely more clunky than the other souls games. Sorry.
Thank you for making such a great video. It's been interesting just to see the view on Dark Souls 2 change. I remember watching Noah-Caldwell Gervais's video on Dark Souls and having my mind open. It's such an interesting series and the second one is just "the bad one" it's more than that. From gameplay to story. Thanks for making this video!
I played through this recently and I was pretty fond of it myself. What I didn't like is alot of the boss fights were kind of a joke with how easy they were. Other issue is the start of the game can be abit frustrating with the amount of enemies thrown at you while only having 1-2 flasks to work with. Aside that the rest of the game was a trip, and I don't get why it gets as much hate as it does.
The issue with Adaptability in my opinion is that it demands player investment. As for Ember vs Hollowing, the player feel is important. When you Ember up it feels like an improvement from the base, whereas each subsequent death lowering your health more and more can feel more demoralizing. Also the ring of binding reducing the health lost can feel like a tax on less skilled players. Repeat bosses, I disagree that the co-op areas feel optional in the same way that the optional bosses from Elden Ring do because they have Souls attached to them. Boss runbacks are an issue because of losing souls and just the issue of wanting to rechallenge the boss as soon as you can. Despawning enemies can also feel bad for players that are farming for a specific item or are trying to get strong enough to face a boss. While there is the CoC, it doesn't really communicate what the effects of joining the covenant are and just says that your journey will be harder. Also more than anything else, Dark Souls II fails to explain how it is different from Dark Souls I. It took me years to find it in myself to enjoy DS2 and there are still parts I'd rather not engage in. These are just my thoughts and while I'd like conversation, I do think it might lead to argument. Cheers.
The problem with Adaptability which everyone just ignores is that virtually every player will end up investing in. At least to a specific point, for a similar amount of i-frames as you'd probably have in Dark 1 or Demon's. Which, at this point, the question becomes... why bother? It is literally just going to pad out your level for PvP, or slow your growth early-game for PvE purposes. People don't like being given choices when one is so clearly the best option- otherwise they walk away feeling punished for choosing what they want rather than what they didn't realize was so vital. Do you wanna level up Intelligence so you can use cooler spells sooner? Or maybe Strength so you can finally make use of that giant axe burning a hole in your box... The correct answer is ADP, idiot. Enjoy having terrible rolls for another few levels.
"Repeat bosses, I disagree that the co-op areas feel optional in the same way that the optional bosses from Elden Ring do because they have Souls attached to them." Many optional bosses in Souls games have souls attached to them. Moonlight Butterfly, Oceiros, and Champion Gundyr are examples deom DS1 and DS3 that are fully optional. "Boss runbacks are an issue because of losing souls and just the issue of wanting to rechallenge the boss as soon as you can." This gets to an idea that friction is bad in games when it isnt. Why should the game allow the player to challenge the boss as soon as possible?
@@rslrandy Point One: Yes you are correct. In fact that is part of my point, those optional bosses feel just as important to the game and their areas are not designed as total gauntlets. Ocieros is a bit of a bad example in this regard as you do have to beat him to unlock one of the endings and in order to reach two late game areas. Point Two: Friction is good. But it is something that has to be balanced with player retention. There is a reason that Elden Ring introduced the Stakes of Marika even with lifting a lot of other design elements from DS2. You don't have to reslog through the area again to rechallenge the boss, but you can't change up spells or spend your runes.
This video was refreshingly analytical and sound while defending DS2, but I disagree with some of the conclusions he draws as they disregard the player’s feelings when playing. Embers feel better than humanity, and even if the hit boxes technically aren’t broken that doesn’t make them feel any more fair
The investment is neglectable. Not only is the cost of leveling up smaller than in other souls titles you also don't have to level adp to finish the game.
A little glazing here for some ds2 features. If i lvl health 10 levels and let's just say it goes up by 200. This mechanic means if i really suck my health only increases by 150 with the hollow ring... Which Limits builds on top or even just 100 without. Vs ds3 where i get 10 levels in health goes up 200 and with the embering i get 260 extra health. So not the same thing. It doesn't matter the labels. Numbers wise one makes my health levels at least 25 percent worthless per level while the other makes my health levels potentially 30 percent more powerful if i use an item. Sounds the same except one my health actually goes up when i level it and the other just makes it hurt a little less when i die per level. Also ADP is nothing like any other feature in the other ds games. It's only a soft lock but even letting fat roll keep same I frames as naked roll because you level adp doesn't feel good either. If i want better frames while rolling i should level up my weight so i can literally be more nimble while heavier. Now i have to choose (technically i don't) between i frames while dodging OR getting the F up and swing my weapon holy F the fat roll takes forever to get up. It's in your face. It doesn't feel good. Never had to know what i frames were in any game cus it's supposed to be seamless. Bro the bossfight difficulty and or run back argument for BA is weird. The bosses just feel like health sponges the whole game. So the difficulty argument is trash. I beat around half the bosses first try because do like 3 moves each. Best fight is smelter and that one feels more like a fight with the camera than a boss. Noone wants the boss attaco to have the same hitboxes as us you're crazy. Thats what makes games feel good. Barely hitting attacks we thought might miss or barely dodging attacks that maybe would have hit us is good game theory. It doesn't feel better because i know i didn't get hit by that giant hot dog hit box. It would feel better if the animation didn't touch me so i didn't take damage. No one should agree with this cus no one has played any other game like that and said it was good. NG+ though is an actual W all the way. Very impressed with the ascetic and NG+ mechanics. Theres more i like but there's plenty of ds2 defenders out there. Trying to debate that these things make sense or make the game better is wild.
I respect your opinion, but dark souls 2 is my least favorite game of all time, and while I wish I can find enjoyment within it, there is far to many things I dislike that keep me from ever going back to that game.
I love when the response is just "Git Gud" when the problems I have with the game are far deeper then that. In fact, I think its on the easier side of what a souls game can be and have beaten the game twice.
I recognize that DS2 is a “worse” game than DS1 and 3. That being said, I still think it’s a masterpiece of its own and I PERSONALLY prefer it to the others
Throughout playing the game for the first time, I realized that the more patient I was the more I got rewarded. I actually was on the covenant that made the enemy despawn mechanic go away the whole time too and I still had a blast. If you treat the bonfires as like a level and the entire dungeon like a world, it makes a lot more sense in terms of how they scaled the game. It's the patience in DS2 that makes the community dislike it so much cause if you rush through everything the game will punish you... hard. Elden ring's dlc is like this too and now it's getting review bombed for being "too hard" and "difficult just for the sake of being difficult." If people leveled up their scadutree blessings they wouldn't have this problem, and if people were to just kill enemies on runbacks and then try out the bosses in DS2, they wouldn't have as many problems. For some of the really insane bosses in the game too, they increased the difficulty and made the runback smaller or non existent (like burnt ivory king or fume knight) with the exception of sir alonne.
The amount of Whataboutisms, bad faith and anecdotal arguments in this video is so exhasperating, the last straw was the repeat bosses argument and I feel my hand being forced here. _Yes_ Elden Ring has repeat bosses, in fact every souls game does to an extent...but you must have been living under a rock if you havent been made aware that EVERYONE CRITIZES THOSE TOO! Hell the repeat bosses is like the most maligned aspect of Elden Ring. Thats why I cant stand DS2 fanboys, they act like pointing out any flaw DS2 shares with the rest of the franchise is some scathing "GOTCHA" as if the rest of the fandom hasn't already acknowledged and accosted those faults ten years ago. _You wanna know why DS2 gets dogged on so much?_ its not any ONE issue, theres no *singular fatal flaw* with the game, DS2's failure is the result of a *_death by a thousand cuts._* a long list of compounding issues that are wildly, disproportionately larger than the amount of elements the game gets RIGHT. And no I dont think DS1 is all that good either, I think the fact anyone could consider it the "Ultimate Video Game of All time" is nothing short of a complete farce, but what it does have that DS2 lacks is a clear and consistent artistic vision (Note: consistent vision is NOT to be mistaken for consistent quality as im sure the conflation stirred within anyone reading this) Yeah you can manually aim your character in any direction you want to walk, you could also manually aim your character in DS1 if you wanted to omnidirectional roll, that doesn't mean 8 directional snap points and cardinal rolling aren't BOTH obsolete garbage. The online etiquette argument is purely anecdotal and has no actual weight, invaders always had means of healing themselves, in DS1 it was humanity to which they could have 99 and it was easy to farm, in DS2 most invaders had warmth which was essentially free regardless of your build if they needed to heal and would often do so taking cover behind enemies, which is factually better balanced than humanity stacking but again, this is all about a purely situational and subjective non-argument in the first place. New Game + Its not all that special, you get some unique interactions yes, Freyja's ambush, the old lords souls, new rings and various other equipment, its neat, but it actually aggravates one of the games worst issues, enemy gank spam scenarios and this time it doesnt have the DLC's conceit of being "Multiplayer Zones". The Lost Sinner is not made better by adding two back up dancers, and the "new enemies" are mostly just buffed up phantoms of standard enemies from the first cycle, its gravelording that you cant TURN OFF. Again, not really all that special. ADP and Human Effigies, I dont have an objective counter point, only that I and a grand majority of the soulsborne audience prefer having no health penalty on death and attributing I-frames to equipment load. I'm just bringing it up to address the point, I think both are "Fine", they are functioning mechanics (Blocking and circle strafing is more efficient than dodging in DS2 anyways) Heres some major sticking points of DS2 criticism the video DIDNT cover, >The comically exaggerated fall damage, >the wet paper durability system >the prolonged vulnerability of player hit stun >the lack of I-frames when interacting with environmental objects, such as the BOSS FOG WALLS, ADP aint fixing that, and NO running out the enemy respawn limit is NOT a good solution to this problem either. >the awful stamina economy that pollutes every action the player takes. >SOUL MEMORY: a counter productive feature designed to negate twinking that was just as easily subverted by meta gaming invaders who were already twinking and only became an intrusive hurdle for co-op players. >The busted status effects, Bleed dealing a single FLAT damage number that NEVER scales making it quickly fall off in relevancy beyond the early game. and then theres poison and toxic, also known as "Toxic" and "SUPER Toxic" -(Kinda like this text wall huh?)- >The laughably impotent and uninspired boss fights, having to wait until the DLC for just a handful of good fights is just kinda sad. >Life Gems disrupting the entire balance of the games difficulty and even rendering the Estus Flask borderline irrelevant in most cases until the end game. >The ugly and pointless filter effect that layers over the intro cutscene to every single boss fight in the game >The borderline absent plot of the games narrative, this is an issue that even carries over into the DLC up until the Crown of the Ivory King, because both prior DLC's have zero NPC interactions that drive the plot forward, I find it hilarious that people think Fume Knight is even comparable to Artorias when he has little to no actual characterization what so ever. I'll stop it there, because honestly the games half baked attempt at a story is probably one of the most offensive faults to me personally, and if anyones immediate response to these added faults is "Well what about-" I'm gonna stop you there and give you the first place Darwin award for *_"Completely Missing the Point"_* Its not even a "You just dont like it because its not like Dark Souls 1" issue, because Fromsoft has released plenty of games since that resemble DS1 EVEN LESS than DS2 and are still universally acclaimed because of their outstanding quality, Bloodborne, Sekiro and Armored Core. I'm sorry if DS2 is your favorite game, and if any of this _hurt your feelings_ but you can acknowledge something is subpar while still finding entertainment out of it, ( I enjoy the Jurassic Park sequals, _we can both have terrible tastes together_ ☮😘) theres no need to blow a games quality out of proportion to justify your enjoyment of the product, ESPECIALLY when you feel the need to try and tear down other works just to prop it up, it just makes you come off as insecure and disingenuous. Newer players would probably be more willing to give DS2 a break if its fanbase were more open and honest about its faults instead blaming everyone else for being close minded
You've missed the entire point of the video. There is no such thing as bad taste. Taste is taste. Video games are subjective. The fact you'd go so far out of your way to look for objective reasons why the game is bad tells me all I need to know. If you don't like it, just don't play it. You don't need to write a comprehensive breakdown to convince someone why they're wrong for liking something. Critique for the developers I understand, but the game came out ten years ago. Whatever advice you have for them they already took and applied to their later games. Why you have this insatiable need for everyone to share your negative opinion, I will never comprehend.
@@BabsOfEao Okay slow your roll there, that statement of "no such thing as bad taste" is not only incorrect thats a take that can be down right problematic. There is ABSOLUTELY bad tastes. Jokes that glorify or make light of serious topics such as bigotry and "R4p3" ARE in bad taste finding enjoyment or entertainment in child/animal abuse is absolutely in bad taste Now did I jump to the most absurd logical extreme of this counter argument over such a trivial topic of video game preferences? maybe, but it does solidify my point. and if you honestly think thats still just a matter of "subjectivity" you got issues only a licensed medical professional would be qualified to treat.
Hey man, really enjoyed this video. You made a ton of great points and the overall structure was organized and flowed well. Great message at the end of the video. Keep it up
28:46 This is absurd, plenty of people love the way that Lies of P treats its ng+ 31:07 You literally have just admitted that there is no reason to argue with you because your bias covers your eyes.
@nihlmorton7809 ADP is only for consumable use speed. Cast speed a completely different thing, governed by attunement. But attunement also increases Agility! Probably where you're mixed up
DS2 is a fine game, but its defenders are insanely annoying. They'll make the worst fucking arguments known to man and will expect normal people to accept it
It always boils down to them making objective statements like "DS2 is the BEST souls game ever and everyone else is 100% FACTUALLY WRONG" but the second they get even the slightest amount of push back with people poking holes in their logic they always cower behind their subjectivity shield "Well thats just my OPINION man, cant you just let people enjoy things? stop being so negative >:("
And it's always "oh, but DS1/DS3/ER aren't perfect either". Ok, we know? How does that make DS2 better? I really enjoyed playing through DS2 but by the end I was so exhausted that I can't see myself playing it again. I don't think it's a bad game, but it does have some terrible mechanics and design choices that should be addressed.
@@sisterofquelaag It *Is* a bad game and that's FINE. This is the problem most people have, we ALL like terrible things they just can't accept that objectively speaking Dark souls 2 is a bloody mess that's indefensible in most aspects of a "Soulsborne" game.
@@jay6113 I'm more of the opinion that it's a bad souls game but an ok game, although that may be because I just feel bad saying it's a bad game lol. But I get it, there's a reason why I've never wanted to play it again while I've played the others multiple times.
While I don't agree on your stand on some things and, to this day, I still feel like DS2 it's my less favorite game on the series, it's always nice to see a video so clearly made out of the passion and love for your connection with the game. I'm so done of the average ensayist or critics thinking that their job is only about focusing only on the flaws of a work instead of the balance with it's strenghts and what makes for a meaningful experience. Also, since we already went past of the DLC release I was curious to hear your thoughts. I doubt that it made ER to go up to your favorite since it doesn't quite offer what you love so bad in DS2, but it's interesting nonetheless.
I love how you dismiss the ADP critique as simple as a Git Gud argument. It's not. ADP is essential in some playstyle especially to new players. And they don't even know that it's essential. And even when they did upgrade it. The changes aren't very apparent. And it doesn't help that its movement are janky. Which connects to the next point. The movement is slow and janky. It limits you to 8 conical directional movement and when you require a precise movement in a fight. Will fck you up. Sometimes your character will randomly turn around 360 degrees. Stopping you in your tracks. Giving chances to your opponents to backstab you. Or just makes you fall. Sometimes you dont attack your front. it turns to the side specifically because of the random turning. You roll slow, plus i frames being inconsistent until certain numbers and your attacks won't even attack where it was supposed to be. The Co-Op areas are bad even with friends. Frigid Outskirt is still frustrating as fck. The Gank Boss Fights aren't even challenging when Solo. And this guy legit thinks the Blue Smelter Demon boss run is not damnable. Even with 2 other friends this boss run is frustrating. Also, the gall of this man to say DS1's demon ruins are bad. When boss run to the Smelter Demon exist. The self jerk off for the "being respectful in PvP" thing is mind boggling. Stuff has existed since Demon's Souls. The balls of this man to say that getting swarmed is good. Unsportsmanlike? You want me to waste so much time killing the same enemies 6x just so that I don't get fcked when reaching the boss? Wtf are you smoking? THE BEST MECHANIC? Holy hell this guy LOVES wasting his time. The boss run to Smelter Demon, to Sir Alonne, to Blue Smelter Demon, Shrine of Amana, King Vendrick, and oh god so, So, SO MUCH MORE. They want you to waste so much time. Killing the same enemies over and over again. Just so that your run to the boss that's not even that good won't be frustrating. All and all, it's just the masochists talking. The slow movement plus the jank makes it the worst when it comes to movement. I feel more natural with DS1 and DeS's movement system. And since it is both janky and slow. The already bad hit boxes gets even more prevalent. So it has all that. Plus bad boss runs and enemies. That is very long and lengthy. Imagine seeing Lost Izalith's boss run and says "Let's make that normal". The gsme is very much not for me. But then these same fckers will say that DS3 is objectively the worst. The moment you tried to make an argument in defense of ADP is already proof enough that you will absolutely forgive all of this game's glaring flaws.
I love this game!!!!!! Basically everything you said about it is how I feel about it myself and it's just so much fun to me. I love it for the same reasons I love Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal. It gives you so much freedom and so much to do, you have way more fun if you play it to fuck around and do what you want rather than just trying to get to the end like so many people do. This extends to a lot of other RPGs too, even in the Pokemon and Souls franchises.
A fellow Dark Souls 2 defender 🫡
Respect
We are rare but we are strong from years of struggle. Don't go hollow.
@@ianwilliams2632bro it's a fucking video game fuck you mean struggle?
🫡
I enjoy Dark Souls II.
@@ianwilliams2632Hell yeah 🫡
None of the other games have 'dual wielding broken kitchen ladles' as a viable build option.
Only rivalled by Skyrim with knife and fork
Elden ring has a million broken builds
@@grinreaper2774 Are they broken raw ladles? nope. Enjoy 50 similar swords lmao (I love Elden Ring but lets be real, AoWs carry variety hard)
jokes aside, ds2's still the only game to have true powerstancing. Elden ring only brought back the basic l1 attacks, & left hand attacks altogether are limited to neutral attacks only (no sprint/roll/step/jump attacks). Too many no brainer features like that shouldve been mainstays
Viable is kind of a stretch
Agility is also affected by attunement so practically a dedicated caster got 1-2 s without investing in a non build stat
Attunment is: Slots, amount of cast per spells, Agility, Fast Cast.
The game doubles down on ADP being a little more of a melee stat by also making it give Poise.
Edit: I also found out quite recently that Endurance gives a little bit of Poise too.
Yes, I think it is a common misconception. People saw ADP and were like "WTF is this", so it's kind of the "boo man" for those expecting a warmed-up DS1.
Playing casters in DS2 is perfectly fine, and you need ATT anyway wich raises AGL (s, estus-speed,...) as well, but people overlook that.
And yes, the stat everyone is looking for is AGL. 🙂
@@BaerndXPthe bogey man*?
5:44 Fun fact: he's getting back handed here. Literally, because there's a hitbox attached to Fume's off hand when he swings it back during this stab
That's not a fun fact clown
Not a fun fact like at all clown
that wasn't intentional design, they accidentally left a hitbox flagged for that move
@@yikes6758yeah definitely not lol, if fume knight can swing those swords, a bitchslap hitbox is completely intentional and warrented
@@kronosthecactus1654 brother, come the fuck on now. be real
I want to become a writer, Dark Souls has been really influential in my life and right now I'm working in a story about a character who, originally, was born as a Dark Souls 2 character. It just so happens that I sent a tale about her to a contest and I won, right now I'm around the 200 pages mark and I have never been so passionate, so in love with an idea of a character, and it all began with a Dark souls 2 run. I'm telling you this because I see you appreciate the game and it has given you so many good things, you're not alone, this game gave me my best character who will, one day, become the protagonist of a novel.
Just curious, what character was it?
@@darkjackl999 a cleric girl, her name is Sigrid and her hair is red
The dark souls games really inspired my writing as well. I’ve only gotten one book published so far, but I’m working on the rest of the series. Keep working on your dreams man
@@sethlowen2303hello , big book enjoyer here. i would find it incredibly interesting and awesome to read someone’s book that is inspired by their experience with dark souls. if it’s not too much of an ask and there is a published work, could you share a name or the like so i and any others could invest our time in your story?
DS really is peak fantasy. It's only natural that a lot of the works the community has done to expand on the lore or tell such personal stories have been equally as compelling. I'm happy you're finding it such a source of inspiration for your writing
Author of DebugManager here, the “Hitbox” tool shown at the beginning of this video. In my opinion, the problem with grabs is not only the little stun animation (which can be removed very easily, it took me 2 minutes to get rid of it globally), it’s that the player gets teleported. Other games don’t do this, they rotate the attacker to the defender of the grab. I feel this would make it feel better.
Radai the real Chad
Othe Dark Souls games do do this though and there's a lot of evidence on UA-cam
Yeah that’s what DS3 does. Imo that game has WAYYY worse hit boxes, but the enemies rotate towards the player like you said.
13:44 I think I know what's going on here, and it's a psychological trick.
I'm going to steal this example from an extra credits video, but apparently, during World of Warcraft's development, there was an exp debuff if you play the game for too long. People didn't like this, but instead of changing the mechanic, they changed how it was framed by making the "normal" state now appear as an exp buff, while the former debuff was now framed as the "normal" state.
A similar thing is going on with Dark Souls 2 vs 3. Instead of framing the situation as "you lost half of your max HP", they changed nothing about the system, but instead made the half normal and the normal HP "double your HP" because psychologically speaking, people are less frustrated by that for some reason. It doesn't matter if they are both similar; it's that one feels better than the other for silly moneky brain reasons.
They absolutely did change the system. This, imo, is an inaccurate framing of how health works in these two games. In DS3 whatever health you have unembered is your baseline, it's what you start with, it's what you get when you die when embered, which you can only get by consuming embers or beating bosses. I'd wager most players who played through DS3 are probably unembered for most of their playthrough, only popping it for a heal or for extra help in a fight or something. In DS2, what you start with is your baseline, which then gets reduced when you die. You can't really frame the minimum half or your *normal* as your baseline in DS2 because you only reach it after dying 10 times without ever using a human effigy, this is not the same thing at all as DS3's system, where you always have your baseline health minimum as a minimum and then can increase it using an ember.
@jeanmarcmichel5719 You are missing the point that "losing your max HP," psychologically speaking, feels worse than "losing a buff to your health."
In Dark Souls 2, your max health is whittled down upon death until you take a human effigy. In Dark Souls 3, instead of framing the embedded state as your "base health" (by showing a grayed-out bar), they instead frame the unembedded state as your "baseline" instead of the debuff like in Dark Souls 2. The specifics are different, there are other things they changed between the systems, but the fact the "embered" state is framed as a buff instead of the "normal" state psychologically feels better.
@@EoteVessels that's not the argument I was countering, yes the framing makes it feel better in DS3 and I agree with that.
What I was arguing against was the notion that both systems are essentially the same just framed differently. The specifics make a pretty big difference there.
@@jeanmarcmichel5719 you do know that you start the game fully hollowed right?
@@majickman and then you immediately become a human after the first twenty seconds of gameplay when you create your character, and your hp total during that very short intro is not even representative of your actual hp past character creation
8:26 The moment you tell them "just level __" they lose their shit.
It happened in Eldenring as well with Vigor since people were getting mad from being two shot by bosses, then when they were told the same thing for the DLC but they still didn't get it
I have my gripes with DS2 (mostly how I cannot evade grab attacks properly and keep falling off the bridge on a way to Chariot) but it is still the only game out of three I replayed more than 3 times (2 in original and 3 in Scholar) like no other in Souls series. Bloodborne might come close second and Elden Ring is its own Elden Beast entirely but DS2 is still the best in mood, tone, colours, even people. DS2 gave us GAVLAN! No other game has Gavlan.
WITH GAVLAN YOU WHEEL
@@darkjackl999 GAVLAN WANTS SOULS! MANY, MANY SOULS!
Lol, the best advice i can give for avoiding grab attacks in dark souls 2 is to roll way later than you think you should. People usually get grabbed while in the end of their roll, so if you delay your roll youll find it much easier to avoid attacks.
But i love DS2! When compared to its predecessor it isnt as impressive, and its very easy to see that there wasn't much of a "vision" like with the DS1, but it experimented a ton and was quite successful in those experiments!
- A password system to play with friends online more consistently
- Powerstancing being a beloved mechanic that they sort of released in DS3 with twinblades, Gottards Twinswords, Sister Friedes Scythe, and the Ringed Knight Paired Greatswords and then finally being brought back properly in Elden Ring (Though i think Dark Souls 2's version of allowing you to powerstance different weapon types to be still much better)
- An upgrade system for your estus to let you hold more as opposed to kindling
- A simpler - more refined upgrade system that allows players to swap out their enchantments on their weapons
- Bosses having multiple phases
- A guard break mechanic that lets you riposte
- Weapons of the same category having unique movesets!!! (why did this have to go away :< )
- Changes to getting boss weapons so you just get the weapon and dont have to rank up a normal weapon to turn it into a boss weapon
- Introducing +1, and +2 rings for NG+
- Oh yeah, having actual NG+ content for the player to experience (adding new base game enemies, letting bosses drop new souls)
- Bonfire Ascetics letting you NG+ a single bonfire area letting you respawn bosses
- Changing jump to Hold O + R3 rather than Hold O + tap O
It introduced a ton of mechanics that were kept and loved!
@@coreymeredith4001 Thank you, I will try delaying dodges vs. grabs.
Gavlan wheel ✅
Gavlan deal ✅
I only play sotfs so the revelation that frigid outskirts and the like were meant to be co-op blew my fucking mind, I mean in hindsight it makes a lot of sense
He also forgot to mention some extra details.
They have an increased summoning limit and grant special item drops during coop. Getting summoned to Frigid Outskirts before you get the DLC key is the earliest way to get a Bone Fist.
@@Domo3000 he's hereeeee
dark souls 2 has always had a special place in my heart it was the first dark souls game i played and probably the second game i ever took seriously , it was also the only game from 2014 that could work on my super low end laptop at the time and i used to take it with me everywhere even on family trips since i wasnt the kind of person who liked social interactions or going outside too much , the world of dark souls 2 might have been very depressing but to me at that time it was a shining beacon of hope , no matter how many time i died , no matter how many time i got bum rushed by 8 enemies , i could always prevail . even now whenever i feel down or get the feeling of "thats it" i would remember the time beat dark souls 2 on a family trip screaming out the balcony of a hotel room with joy knowing that if i beat that game then i could beat whatever im up against now.
I love dark souls 2 for the armors and Fashion souls
Velstadts armor🔥🔥
And the weapons too my god
Rediron twinblade my beloved
Fume Sorceress armour, my beloved
As someone who consistently hits up shrine of Amana in less than 5 hours I can never unsee ds2 as a beautiful flawed maiden of epic proportions absolutely massive, juicy with their own quirks and tricks to learn to make the game truly shine. It has it's issues sometimes it gets nervous and throws to much at you far to quickly, at first you might find them uncomfortable, but given time anyone who decides to dig in deep will be greatly rewarded with a beautiful and grand experience that is entirely self contained to this experience. It's not perfect, but there's nothing else like it.
Found this through your short talking about the movement and how it compares to DS1. Really glad I clicked on the full vid. The intro was way sick! I absolutely loved the camera work! Really nice to see more videos talking about DS2 positively instead of all the rampant negativity. Hopefully the algorithm catches this video and spreads it like wildfire
I do have two (imo, quite important) counterpoints to your point on Adaptability being similar to other Dark Souls games' poorly-explained mechanics.
The first being *those other mechanics weren't as immediately impactful and player-facing as rolling i-frames are.* Nobody will really bat an eye when Gravelords fail to happen in NG worlds, and they'll eventually learn to tune out the weird white circles on the ground in DS1 because they really didn't do much of import to the average player. However, *every single player* of DS2 will roll, and will notice some weirdness with it without knowledge of ADP. Those other mechanics are esoteric not only in form, but in function. Adaptability, on the other hand, is extremely important in function, and therefore should NOT be esoteric in form as it currently is. Had the ADP stat been explained better in the menus, then it likely would have raised less eyebrows overall.
The other counterpoint is that other Souls games' poorly-explained mechanics are equally valid areas of critique for just that reason, and shouldn't excuse ADP's poor communication, nor the poor communication of all the games' esoteric mechanics.
Nonetheless, I do still love DS2, since I feel like it had the most experimentation out of all of the Souls series titles. Just figured I'd add to the conversation a bit, since I believe it's important to still be critical of even games that you love.
The only issue I have with this is that s aren't essential in DS2 UNLESS you try to play it like Dark Souls. At the time people expecting DS1 bounced off this without exploring the other options, back stepping, much better ranged options etc and most importantly, the oversaturated summon system.
This argument only stands if s are absolutely essential and they're not.
@@shadquirk607>the s aren’t essential unless you play Dark Souls 2 like Dark Souls
💀
@@LucDeTruc let me guess, mid 20's, think DS3 was the best before Elden Ring released, never played DS2, did play DS1 OR Demons Souls remake, probably not both, right?
As much as I love Dark Souls 2. I think ADP being tied to i-frames is dumb. And this is as a person who's doing a no ADP level up run right now to see how bad it is.
It's certain not as bad as people make it out to be. Most videos of people getting hit come from the fact that they rolled way too early.
However still dumb. Having a better roll shouldn't really be a thing. I think keeping the animation speed up with it is fine.
@@shadquirk607 I agree with this. Side stepping and spacing are far better methods of avoiding damage. Dark Souls 2 rolls are a VERY heavy stamina move. You will dodge twice and maybe get two or three hits in before being completely drained of stamina. Side stepping attacks means that you keep regenerating stamina while also avoiding moves.
Also Dark Souls 2 has many directional attacks from bosses where the best option is to roll into them to avoid any lingering hitboxes.
I also believe that the Illusory Ring challenge is the definitive way to experience the game. When you can't use Bonfires, or die, all of a sudden Weapon Durability, Lifegems, patiently approaching encounters, the generous Soul Level curve, generous boss attack telegraphs, the slower pace of combat, and the sheer openness of how you can route through the game up to the Shrine of Winter all make perfect sense. Dark Souls 2 is the most consistent, methodical game out of the trilogy. And the fact that the developers put this challenge into this game specifically means they knew what to accentuate out of what the game has to offer.
Getting both rings always seemed like too much for me, but I've done the no bonfire and I completely agree. All the sudden the durability system and the 99 lifegems make so much sense
How? You have to beat the game without dying to even get it.
@@josephbulkin9222 there's two rings, one of them is just a no bonfire challenge. that's the fun one
@@BabsOfEao No bonfire challenge? i don't see the fun in that.
@@josephbulkin9222 doesn’t sound like it but just trust me. ds2 was made for it
It's always enjoyable seeing people who really like this game and why, as somebody who came from ds1 and never clicked with it.
My main issue was clunkiness. This mostly comes from actions feeling slow and less responsive. Also, I think the movement being in limited directions is still an issue to me even using camera. I play unlocked a lot, and will be trying to move my camera in a different direction.
I agree, the repeat bosses are a big isssue in Elden Ring. It's the only major issue I have the game.
I sadly was limited in my experience with the multiplayer as not long after starting ds2 I would get horrible horrible ping and my opponents would move maybe once every 30 seconds. Only ever had these issues on ds2.
For the general design, it's just a preference but I don't like long boss runs. I played through the game a few months and the boss I struggled with was smelter daemon. The boss run was annoying, which just meant grinding out all the enemies in the area which was very boring. Likewise with the bonefire aesthetic. Redoing an area again afterwards doesn't sound like much fun, and once I'm at an appropriate level for ng+, I'd rather just move on. NG+ changing drops and enemy placement and encounters is very cool. That is the coolest part of DS2, but the bonfire aesthetics isn't interesting to me.
Never really understood the "clunkiness" complaint with DS2. Like, are we just going to forget how jank Demons Souls and DS1 are? Heck even the remake of DeS is kind of clunky imo. To me, it's always seemed like a superfluous claim that only serves to misrepresent the game and turn people away from it. For me, I feel like the rolling and movement system, especially when not locked on, is leagues better in DS2 than the first game.
@@Sinhesthysia
DS2 being slow doesn't help it either. As jank as the former two were. DS2's movement is just much more apparent. Nobody likes being slow, moves weird, and still somehow get hit.
@@zurielschubert9410 I mean, saying nobody likes something is just flat out wrong. Because I do happen to like the slow and strategic pace of combat in this game, I think it fixed a lot of the issue that come with the very limited and basic combat system of Souls games, and it's really just not a good argument to say "I don't like DS2 so it's a bad game". Games can be good and you don't have to like them, and games can be bad and still have people who enjoy playing them.
@@Sinhesthysia I'm sorry, I understand that. I know the game is very much not for me. The slowness of the game makes it feel like I am wasting time.
Movement isn't an issue, you struggle with the game and use that as confirmation bias bc you've seen other people complain about it. Adjusting your movement with the camera works exactly the same as the other games and most 3rd person action games like modern Zelda. It's okay to just say it didn't click without making up problems the game doesn't have
14:44 i still think that being penalized for each death sucks in ds2. in ds3, embers feel like a buff to your character, and every subsequent death after losing that buff doesn’t penalize you so much. plus, you get embered after each boss kill which makes it feel more like that extra health was earned. in ds2 you spec into your own health pool only for it to be taken away with each death, and effigies aren’t as common (at least in my current playthrough) as embers are. That being said i’m enjoying the hell out of ds2 rn, videos like these are kinda giving me more fuel to enjoy it
In fact, whenever you see a proper DS2 video showing the actual hitboxes, you'll see that this game has the best hitboxes fromsoft have made until Sekiro and Elden Ring arrived.
Most of the time the player's getting hit by those "bad hitboxes" is just a matter of the player rolling too early and the attack landing even if you think it didn't.
Grab attacks? Do I have to start with Gaping dragon insta-grabbing you without any animation? The hitbox just magically appears in one of its hands and you get teleported to it. Or maybe I should speak of Nameless King grabbing attack were he just moves his lance and you get teleported to it even when you're 2 feet away?
As Babbbs said, in DS2 when you get grabbed an you felt like it didn't connect, it's just a matter of replaying the video in slow motion to see that you really got hit in your foot with low agility and an early roll. The only problem is that the grab animation doesn't initiate until the roll animation finish, which is not inherently a bad thing considering that this game is from PS3 and clunky animations weren't exactly rare in that generation.
Domo3000 has a great video just showing random hitboxes of the game and even some comparisons with DS1 and DS3, you'll laugh when you see that DS3's dagger has the hitbox of a club and it's the same for the player and the mobs... The only reason why nobody's complaining on DS3 horrendous hitboxes is because the game's extremely rewarding with rolls, it's almost like they wanted people to roll spam through the entire game so they didn't have to worry about actually setting good hitboxes and designing bosses that aren't just a mindless spam of non-stopping combos.
They gave DS3 a Bloodborne's type of gameplay that rewards the aggression but... In a game where you don't really have the meanings to be that aggressive.
Yeah, I like to say bad things about DS3 even though I loved the game, but DS3 babysitters are everywhere and they love to attack any other game of the franchise, so I just do the same qjwineqjkwnesñdfasdf
true, ds3 hitboxes of the player r worst for the pvp in comparison with ds2, it's insane.
also Domo channel is just incredible good.
@@AtreyusNinja In practice dks2 is always worse tho. Even in never ever hypotheticals.
you can very well be aggressive in ds3, something i feel is lacking in ds2
@@mooonlitknights47
Hypotheticals? Everything I said was real, you can watch the video of Domo3000 showing the hitboxes of both games, DS3 hitboxes are way worse than DS2's
The only real thing where DS3 is better is in average boss quality, as DS3's bosses are outstanding (will some exceptions though)
But for pretty much anything besides boss battles, DS3 is not better, and it is worse in some cases, like exploration and build variety
@@prettyradhandle
As I said before, DS3 tries too much to be Bloodborne in that regard while having nothing of Bloodborne's mechanics to actually make the player THAT much aggressive.
DS2 is not "lacking" in aggressive playstyle, as you can't be aggressive on Demon's or DS1 either, it's not a mistake, is just that the game is not made for that, and there's not a single enemy in the game that feels like you should be able to move faster.
On DS3 in the other hand... You have bosses that are as fast as some Bloodborne bosses while the Ashen One is not near as mobile and agile as the Good Hunter
Bosses like Champion Gundyr who feels absurdly aggressive wouldn't be that much of a threat against the hunter, but in DS3 you don't really have that many weapons to attack in those extremely tiny windows of opportunity that Gundyr has on his second phase, the boss renders useless 90% of the builds in the game but Parry and/or light dex weapons.
Then again, I didn't say that the Ashen One can't be aggressive, I just said that the game has a Bloodborne-ish design for enemies movement while the Ashen One is not as agile as the hunter, BUT, if you're comparing the Ashen One to the rest of the souls... Yeah, I'd say that he's easily way more agile than those before him, but the Tarnished is better in that aspect.
The quality of this video is remarkable! Sad to see you don’t seem to make more videos like this
Comparing Dark Souls 2 to cat mario is the realest shit i've seen all week
I have been trying to complete DS2 several times but have gone back to DS3 each time. Now I see it's because I really just have missed these mechanics and have not been understanding the peculiarities of the game. Thanx a lot for this eye-openning video. Hope this time Flume Knight won't be my last boss in the run.
Epic video, I really really love Ds2. Not just my favorite souls game, but my favorite game of all time.
hey Aoi ^_^/
@@AtreyusNinja whats up, hows it going?
Friend!
Based!
Based, DS2 was not my first game, Demons souls was, I played them in order and really loved them about equally back then.
Coming back to them I realized DS2 is the best aged from just how much of a really good ass video game package it is overall. Demons Souls second, then Dark Souls 1 are all so amazing to replay.
From just what all is super viable to the classic Iron Keep bridge dragon fight nights especially on the weekends this game just has so damn much.
Its very mechanically rich, like one of those 2000's games that you discover stuff decades after still.
One counterpoint to the adaptability thing you mention (which I'm stealing mostly from noah caldwell-gervais) is that there _is_ actually an implicit problem with the adaptability i-frames mechanic, which is that it doesn't translate narratively in a reasonable way, and therefore doesn't make sense from the player's perspective unless they get outside help.
Equip load governs roll distance, and adaptability completely separately governs i-frames, but that division doesn't make any sense from a narrative standpoint. It only makes sense when considered explicitly from the perspective of the game designer trying to not make one stat too powerful. Because that division is so unnatural, it makes the mechanic feel vague and makes it hard for the player to understand what they're even doing when they level it up. This is true even when you divorce DS2 from the context of the other souls games (in other words, it's not just an artifact of the game introducing a new mechanic).
This is made worse by the fact that i-frames are not really a mechanic, they're an implementation detail. There's no narrative reason why your roll makes you invincible for a short time. In other words, i-frames are not something the player should ever have to be aware of _at all,_ but making adaptability specifically affect i-frames separately from equip load _forces_ the player to learn about that implementation detail if they want to be effective at the game.
That being said, I do think DS2 gets a bad rap because it gets over-compared to the other games, so I'm glad to see the DS2 renaissance blossoming lately on youtube :)
I like ds2 sotfs even more than I like elden ring, and I've played thousands of hours of that. My guess is that many people don't like adventure games, they'd rather have a boss rush game.
Ok soo thats a wiiiild opinion. I love Softs, it’s the first souls game I ever played, but Softs better than elden ring? I dont know mannnnn. 😅
I’ll give credit where it’s due though, Dark Souls 2 incorporated so many experimental ideas that were polished in the later games. Power Stancing, special movesets, build variety. Other unique mechanics like the looking glass knight boss invaders, playing on the dlc without owning the dlc, etc.
Dark Souls 2 despite having questionable level design choices also had like some really unique mechanics, like the unfreezing of eleum loyce, the activation of the iron tower, and the hidden pressure plates of the sunken city, burning down the windmill in the earthen peak, and the soul golems in Drangleic castle.
Without Dark Souls 2 as the stepping stone, many of these things that came after it would not have been possible.
@@dafulegend5905I second this. Putting DS2 over Elden Ring is a willlld take
@@Tater_chip_00 I'm with OP, i like DS2 more than ER for many reasons.
Ds2 is the best souls game
That is a good reason. It's more an adventure than an action game. Ds1 lent more to combat (as well as better feeling combat) so people who weren't too into the adventure aspect could enjoy. Not sure how I'd scale them but there definitely is a fading of the adventure elements. I hope they reverse it in a future game.
Maybe you are the only UA-camr who explains why and how Dark Souls 2, even UA-camrs in my own country (Indonesia) really don't like this game because he can't explain it himself like you, you get new subscribers✌️
My main problem with the game is that every action your character performs ends with a noticeable pause during which you can't do anything. Swing a sword, wait for another 250ms before you can raise the shield up even though the animation's finished. Because of this, often the best approach is to be the number 2 in turn order during combat. You wait for opponent to finish their combo, then do your attack while they're recovering. Whenever you try to be number 1, you get slapped in the face by opponent's counter, even if you reacted in time and pressed the dodge button, then you see the character perform the queued action after it's already too late. The 1st game and 3rd also have this somewhat, but not to this extent, if your weapon isn't inherently slow then you can play very aggressively as number 1.
That said i really like the game's world aesthetics and how the story took a brave new turn compared to DS3. In my mind, DS2 develops the world so much better than DS3 did, it's a crime how DS3 just threw most things into the trash bin like it never existed, leaving only minor references.
learn cancel animation, u don't even know what is a quick roll u casuals
@@AtreyusNinja unintentional tech
AGL effects how quickly you can raise your shield.
Very well done video. Your editing is great, and major brownie points from me for using the 'FATE' soundtrack.
31:29 don't cry bro, it's only dark souls 2.
Just got the plat for this game last week. Definitely a game I love and will always love. Great video.
DS2 is my favourite of the series. Has so much more character and personality than ER. I love how you've tackled the problems it has, as well as tried to recontextualise them. Hitbox section is breath of fresh air, but the shopping cart analogy is spot on. DS2 has a quirky sense of humour that does not connect with most people. Those of us who love it know each other.
"Make sure to put points into ADP early on"
The is the most popular and completely irrelevant take ever in DS2... I barely ever level adp past like 10, and never had a problem... In fact my first time ever beating the game I did it with 8 adp
Level ADP is bad advice too. Content creators should tell you to pay attention to agility. 92/99 are the first soft caps, and 99 is equivalent to a DS1 roll. You can get this from leveling attunement too so if you're a caster you don't necessarily want to dump points into ADP immediately. AGL also effects how quickly you use items, switch weapons, and raise shield.
@@timefades27 ok... but what I'm saying is that You don't necessarily need to level adp. It took awhile but I got comfortable with 6 ADP rolls, it's difficult, but you know what I didn't need to level that shit once, instead I got more damage, more health and a versatile functional build.
Also yes leveling ADP early, is really fast... but after like lvl 50, you will very rarely be able to level, leaving you with no actual damage or other stats, because you dumped half of them into ADP...
And yes you are right, it also scales with Attunement, which is a much MUCH more useful stat.
Fun fact: the falconers at the start during NG+ are supposed to infinitely throw their falcons. But due to an animation bug they only throw them once
Balance is about tuning the level of difficulty to whatever is desired. If anything, giving the bosses generous hitboxes like the player is imbalanced, as the bosses already wield much larger, more damaging weapons.
The question to ask is, "Is this fun?" Does it provide good visual feedback? And so forth.
This was genuinely a wonderful video. I wish it was longer.
I'll say my point, Manual Lock-on aiming is far too revolutionary, that shit needs two tech guys in a lab teaching it as they point it out how the camera works. It would make a nice menu option to discover, but lock-on locks on for a reason. So you don't whiff attacks via manual controls.
Generally the lock on - aiming your attacks doesnt post too much of an issue because a lot of weapons have horizontal attack patterns, however the mechanic really comes into play when you have weapons with thrusting/vertical attack patterns. Then it feels like its a problem with the game because now you are missing attacks while locking on.
Personally i love the ability to attack in a seperate direction where im aiming, i love that Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring have the option to disable lock-on auto-aiming your attacks, meaning i can be locked on to the most important enemy while attacking other enemies off-camera.
A bit of a seperate rant:
Though if Dark Souls 2 has taught me anything, its to not *rely* on the lock-on mechanic. Its a great tool for newer players, or for when you fight enemies 1 on 1, but with larger enemies/bosses or fighting multiple creatures its best to stay not locked on. Too many times i see my friends die because they're fighting multiple enemies but because of lock-on, they're tunnel-visioned on the single enemy.
@coreymeredith4001
The skill curve for lock-on is so odd in that most people I watch try to play these games for the first time will continually forget that they can do it and have a really hard time connecting their attacks. Then they usually start to use it ALL the time and get better but eventually realize how much more you can do without being locked on. I guess it’s kinda like training wheels but not in a condescending way, it can be really helpful for new players and even experienced ones
@@nickoliekeyov746 Yeah i agree completely, it's wierd, but when you master non-locked on combat you have free reign to attack who you want when you want.
I was playing some elden ring yesterday with my Str/Fth build and i was trying to snipe enemies using the frenzied flame spell and i could not lock on to the enemy i wanted to in a group, so i just free aimed a fire bomb instead and hit him (that skill came from ds3 pvp)
@@coreymeredith4001 I gotta practice more free aiming projectiles cause I’m still terrible at that lol, haven’t really needed to do it much but I do really like manually aiming with bows and other sniping stuff, I think they’re criminally underutilized in all the games
@@nickoliekeyov746 Manually aiming bows and freeaiming fore bombs are skills you develop in pvp, because locking on makes it super easy for your opponent to know where the firebomb is going to land
The classic way to throw a firebomb is to throw it at your feet, because people usually roll towards you when you throw one meaning youll catch them off guard
13:16 This honestly feels like a grift or cope. DS1 movement you needn’t master because it was intuitive. Using the camera for omnidirectional movement is a remedy for the lack of a tool. It may come as a shock, but DS1 you can do both.
DS2 was the last Souls-Game I picked up, mainly because of it's reputation, but to my surprise I really loved it. It just clicked with me almost immediately.
For one I love the vibe of the game. It feels more like an adventure through old kingdoms a little as if someone crossed dark Souls with Uncharted and for some reason it really works for me. The NPCs, the way you discover new and visually completely different areas so frequently really made me feels I was on this fantastic adventure.
I also adore the build variety. Out of all the games this one encourages you the most to play around with different builds and weapons, mostly because they are just cool, but also by giving you additional levels and many upgrade materials. It also provides the most creativity with powerstancing and funky cool weapon arts. Also levelling and infusing weapons is so much improved from the previous games it's insane. I made heavy use of the wiki and bonfire ascetics to cobble my build together and I had the most fun character building out of any of the games (Elden Ring included)
Even though I haven't mastered the movement system at all I like it a lot more than DS1s. The fact that the jump-button in DS2 is actually functionable and does feel good to use makes it wild to me that they went back to the horrible old jump for 2 more games.
Regarding the enemies and areas it never bothered me. I like the more methodical and careful approach to getting though an area and lo and behold the game actually gives you the tool you need to do that, like making bows and crossbows actually viable, so that you can pick away some enemies from afar.
Am I the only one that actually likes the Hollowing system in DS2? I never used that ring outside of like the first hour of the game. Other than that I just let my health dwindle until i felt it necessary and useful to use an effegy. And at least the effegy-economy was spot on. I always had just enough to comfortably use the effegys to reverse the hollowing effect. When to use them felt like an interesting choice I had to make when to use them most effectively while managing the amount i had left. I like it a lot more than in DS3, because here it is an actual core mechanic, whereas in DS3 it felt tacked on and also made balancing really weird, because embering gives so much HP.
The hitboxes are for the most part fair, but it is an unfortunate combination of the Agility mechanic, the way the game handles grab-animations and how it handles staggers (like you'd often not get staggered at all while taking damage which makes people think the damage was unfair in the first place).
I am on the fence when it comes to agility. On one hand it can create interesting build choices, on the other I am generally not a fan of locking core player abilities within the progression system. It makes levelling ADP not really a choice, which is kind of the most interesting thing about levelling up and allocating your stats. At the same time the devs compensated for that with giving the player much more souls, designing bosses/enemy's movesets in a way where strafing and outspacing is totally viable and disincentivizing spamming roll because of the insane amount of stamina it eats. Overall eh, but it is time for people to stop complaining, just level it a little and it's fine.
So yeah, overall I really love the game and I am happy, that Fromsoft seem to reintroduce some of the ideas from DS2 instead of just dropping all the good ideas from that game.
They didn't go back to old jump for 2 though, well... bloodborne, but that's it.
DS3 is l3, and elden ring is Sekiro Style.
I hope you're happy to see how many people you've reached with your video. And obviously you're not the only one who loves Dark Souls 2.
And you have not even talked about the lore. The characters. The tragedy of lucatiel. Of every poor soul that made its way to drangleic. The game is beautiful and somber. So much has been forgotten. And so much will be forgotten still.
What made me fall in love with ds1 was the atmosphere. Just how much is conveyed despite so much being hidden. Ds2 is no where near that. But its a beautiful continuation and it saddens me to no end that ds3 just threw all of it out for a more straightforward but more meta plot. And so much retreading of old ground.
Also, I encurage everyone to replay the frigid outskirts with summons. Its genuinely one of my favorite experiences in any fromsoft game.
This was one of the best videos I've ever watched in a while.
I could feel the passion you had for DS2 in every second.
I wish the video was longer though, I could watch you talk for hours.
DS2 is one of my favorite as well and definitely my favorite souls game.
Please make a part 2 😭
Only got to play DS2 pvp last year, despite playing it on 360 on release. I really play it as respectfull as possible. Sometimes I get a good match. But others are so sweaty. Like my build is of a hexer for pve and I only use meelee on arena, but sometimes the player is so sweaty (like using a bow on the bridge). Like man, we are on Vanilla, be thankful you had another player to fight. And I lost multiple times to him, only won twice, the last I just left after. Or when I was invaded twice on Belfry Sol and the two jumped on me.
I on the other hand let them deal with the enemies when I invade. Like when I was on sl1 and I let this newby heal once because an enemy attacked. I ended it no hit.
PvP is one of the few things this game does best, I'd argue. Definitely experiment with anything and everything, you'd be shocked at just how viable and even fun many options are. Even seemingly worthless spells like "Shockwave" and "Soul Spear Barrage" offer utility that your stronger spells cannot. The opponent keeps dodging your Soul Arrows? Cast Barrage, watch them roll under three of the little pellets and eat the rest. Shockwave, on the other hand, is a wonderful tool to use for inducing panic. It'll pancake people and instantly break through small and some medium shields, and can be free-aimed at your feet to (literally) trip up aggressive players.
And that's just base game Sorcery spells. Pyromancy and Hexes offer more, and the DLCs introduce things like Soul Flash. Go wild.
23:20 you can see a lot of this in Elden ring too. Way mor ganks sure but it’s always nice to see someone choose not to heal, emote to signal duel start, and make sure to one v one. My favorite invasion was invading a full lobby and having them stand aside and watch while I dueled one of the fingers. Then a hunter popped up and he watched. When I won then I dueled the hunter and they watched. When I beat him then I dueled the next finger, and I won. Then we repeated this until the host, and winning that felt satisfying. It was like a boss rush and there was so much honor that it just was a blast to complete.
Omg, thanks to this video I finally understood those statues and why the DLCs were mostly desinged the way they were! Thank you very much.
"This game has better level design than the later games if you play it as the developpers intended, it's not artificial difficulty it's a different kind of difficuly that complements this game specifically"
It doesn't make for bad difficulty necessarily but "artificial" is very much the word I'd use to describe plenty of levels in DS2. They don't look real, they look like video game levels and the developper's intent (or limitations) are just too obvious.
The footage shows Iron Keep as the example. I have plenty of issues with how wasted the interesting Alonne knights are in this short, featureless and badly paced level but let's focus on a single point; the beflry bonfire is in a cavity in the ground that your character cannot climb out of. It makes no sense as to why anybody would build this random hole like this unless you look at it from the developper's perspective : to push you into the multiplayer zone. In the original release, you could climb the ladder then drop down onto the side of the cavity, thus negating the need to go through the multiplayer zone, it was a very silly workaround but hey, it worked. In SOTFS, they added some cage to make that impossible. Again none of this is credible in anyway, it is all transparently the developpers wanting to push you to go a certain way without any attempt to make it look sensical, doublng down in SOTFS. It is just a video-game level.
That to me is as artifical as it gets. Difficulty is always artificial in video-games but it's the presentation, the context that makes it feel warranted or not. DS2 so often doesn't bother to hide its challenge under a veneer of believability, as a result, whether something is fun or not depends largely on how much you enjoy the challenge for challenge's sake and not for any other parameter. For that alone, I can't agree that it's better than its successors because even if following the developper's intent results in a technically better level-design (which I don't agree with anyway), I don't think we should play games while considering "what do the devs intend for me to do ?", the world should immerse you and speak for itself.
Here's a good example of DS2 : the weird long-armed beasts in the pirate's cove. For one, it's a pirate cove ! The theming of the level isn't a confusing mess like Earthen Peak, you can tell what it is just by looking around, it's not exactly the most creative place you'll ever see but it's well done. For 2, the beasts are always in the dark, there are torches where they aren't, you can intuit that they don't like the light and the human inhabitants clearly know it since they have a switch to turn on the lights which makes all the beasts recoil. But you can also just light a torch in one hand to push them away. All of that is credible. You're not thinking about devs intent while going through it because it's all easy to make sense of. It's cool. It's neat. It's unique. It gives flavor to that level which I'd argue is underrated, I wish DS2 was more like this and less like Iron Keep.
DS2 made me want to know more about the game world. DS1 was dark spectacle and DS3 met expectations, but DS2 was the only one out of the three that made me curious.
Honestly such an underrated video. You did a great job discussing and analyzing all of the arguments people bring up for why they do and don't like the game and you honestly taught me a bunch of stuff I didn't know about the movement mechanics.
Also you deserve way more subs dude, great vid
Dark souls 2 let's you wear a sallet 10/10
Having s simply determined by equip load is not only more intuitive, but also the trade-offs are more interesting.
Lota of unneccesary coping. Dark souls 2 is a good game, but its very flawed, and people are right to criticize it, even when its issues exist in the other souls titles.
To point number 1: You literally just handwaved the bad hitboxes as the player misunderstanding them. Even if that were the case, its created a frustrating experience, where you can't trust the games visual cues consistently. A mild annoyance during early game 1v1s, a bigger issue during gank squads, and an even bigger frustration in the DLC boss fights. Every game has imperfect hitboxes(this happens in all the games), but the frequency of Dark Souls 2 bad hitboxes, combined with the way hitboxes are drawn makes for a flawed experience. I mean the footage speaks for itself, even if there is a technical explanation, its still not acceptable.
2. ADP is bad because it creates an inconsistent experience. To most players, they don't understand what it does, and as a result, play a vastly more difficult game than the first Demon or Dark souls. When you do figure it out, it creates the opposite issue where it makes most encounters piss easy. The default should have been base Dark souls, because it was already effective, and gives the players more consistent results with their rolls. This isn't the biggest issue imo, but it basically makes balancing content more tricky for Fromsoft than needed.
3. The movement in Dark souls 2 is not as good as the other souls games. I can't explain it fully, but me moving in Demon Souls, and Dark souls felt good. Like I was in control. And the combat animations were snappy, and allowed you to cancel out making it easier for the players to react. I don't think the 8 directional movement is the core issue in Dark souls 2, because you can just lock off and be fine. But the animations themselves and how much time it takes to recover from said animations creates this boggy feeling. Again, not easy to explain, but I just have more fun controlling my player character playing Demon souls or Dark Souls naturally. Zero Lenny made a great video explaining this visually.
4. Human Effigys are not a big criticism people push about the games. If anything, its lifegems. But on the note of human effigys, they are fine, and I agree with you that its more forgiving than it was in Demon Souls. Now I wasn't the biggest fan of it when it was present in Demon Souls(mainly because 50% is rather discouraging), but it is an intentional design decision, to encourage the player to go to human form and be in online play more often than not. So I'm ok with it in the souls games as its been tweaked in 2 and 3.
5. Dark souls isn't an MMO. Some people will play the content in Co-op and its fine. However, a good sizable amount of people will try to challenge themselves to beat the games in single player. The prior games established a reputation of tough but fair. Nothing about the areas scream tough but fair. Just enemy spam before a boss. I would maybe agree if the bosses were more raidy, but they are all pretty on par with the rest of the games design. If this were the case, there should be variations of these runs. One with friends, maybe with better drops or unique enemies. And then a route thats actually fair and meant to be played singleplayer.
Try to defend the Sir Alonne bossrun and tell me that encounter(which is a duel of swords) was designed first as a co op boss.
6. On the point of the foggate, here is the thing. If you want to fight a boss, and let's say its a good boss, the game will probably put a couple enemies in your way as a challenge. If you clear them all out, then run to the foggate, great. If you don't first try the boss though, you will have to repeat that experience. Its fine once or twice, but if you were learning a boss, and found yourself dying to them many times, then at some point you are going to start running past the content. Why would I continue the same challenge when I demonstrate mastery once, or repeatedly? Dark souls 2 alleviates this in a clumsy way, by despawning enemies after kiling them numerous times, but thats still several runs where you have to clear enemies. This isn't the worst thing, but it is a big issue with a few areas. Iron Keep is not a fun run for this reason, especially given how the enemies are laid out. Sir Alonne is the other horrible one, where again, I ask is the intention for you to clear out the entire level, or to make a mad dash to the foggate. I just think at the end of the day, removing fog gate invincibility is just creating artificial difficulty and frustration. A better way to handle this would be to give the player invincibility through the foggate after the first time you enter through it without I-frames. Or maybe just create a shortcut so the player can skip right to that battle in these problem areas.
7. Bonfire ascetics are awesome, but most players don't give a shit about new game plus features, considering they drop the game once they are finished. I'm not into the whole(just put 100 hours into it, it gets better). I want to enjoy my first playthrough. Dark Souls 1 was brilliant for me in the first half, that it made the second half tolerable. There was a lot of content and stuff I didn't see, as well as stuff in New Game plus to try to do, but it wasn't neccesary for me to be hooked. For the souls vets, its a great feature, but it doesn't really do anything to make the first run or impression of the game better. That being said, I'd like to see it return because most players would love the opoortunity to refight certain bosses after their first clear(Nameless king or Gael for example would be even more fun if ascetics were availalble, if at least in a New game plus run). Again, I think if you asked most souls vets, they love ascetics and wish they were a staple.
Anyway, I yapped too much. It's just staggering how many Dark Souls 2 essays defending the game, fail to focus on the good, and instead fumble the ball by defending obviously flawed game design.
Honestly i feel like DS2 put a lot more emphasis on co-op (even though soul memory made it a pain). But it also fits the story, you trying to become the new monarch. A leader! With subjects and retainers! Not by being ”the chosen undead”! The game even asks ”The next monarch?” Quickly followed by ”Or merely a pawn of fate?” as to hint to the other theme of the game.
beautiful video man, alrdy added to my favorite
You are SEVERELY underrated. I can tell from this video alone that you will have great success. Please keep it up!
True
I love your view here, but that Diablo 2 comparison feels a bit off. Diablo is designed around the loot system people replay content because there's the chance of a rare drop. The content is also easier, not really geared toward challenge. People don't fight the same bosses because they thought those bosses were fun.
Ngl I love this game more than ds1
Ds2>ds1
Something something ADP Souls 2: Scholar of the First Gank
Edit: Also, at 5:48 that’s not a hitbox issue, that’s a latency issue
11:32 you have s on backsteps in ds1, they’re just incredibly limited, even with the flip ring.
Probably something to do with ADP increasing your backstep s too
15:03 Whataboutism is a logical fallacy just FYI
18:13 Whataboutism is a logical fallacy just FYI
18:48 Well, if we're going off that logic then Belfry Gargoyles and Scorpioness Najka are both repeat bosses because they're copied ideas from DS1 as well, making it 86%
Overall, a pretty good video, however, I can’t say that I enjoyed it.
I also can’t say that I enjoyed DS2 after having played through it six times.
5:48 look up domo3000 for proper comparisons, I was just prioritizing my own footage as often as I could
11:32 no, you do not. you're right that they're limited. limited to literally 0. darkwood ring or not.
15:03 you're using this to dismiss arguments you don't like, if someone argued the opposite you wouldn't care if it was a whataboutism
18:13 this isn't even relevant in either of these timestamps
18:48 that's a STRETCH. I only included old dragonslayer because it was the same model with the same animations. gargoyles and najka are unique assets with wildly different movesets to their DS1 "counterparts". also "copied ideas" means nothing. elden ring has a fight with gargoyles in the name, and you'd be an idiot to argue thats the same as ds1 gargs. also 86% vs. 48%. my point still stands.
@@BabsOfEao Proof of backstep s: ua-cam.com/video/6kFgyFYQ-e8/v-deo.htmlsi=Gw74uZ-aIamw4ope
@rigorm136 that's not backstep i-frames, that's a latency issue
@@BabsOfEao ua-cam.com/video/iYXKRxBcrik/v-deo.htmlsi=ifPCKDhqVRCWXJGn
@@BabsOfEao not a latency issue, ds1 s have unlimited poise and about 4 frames or invincibility
19:13 “ds1’s movement is easier to learn, but not as fun to master” ds1 also has backstep iFrames which are great, and also ds1 (and demons) has the most complex movement system besides maybe elden ring (due to jumping) because it has really cool stuff like reverse rolling, barrel rolling, which is super useful in PvE too, and raviolis
No one who ever goes through the AGILITY = IFRAMES argument every mentions how Attunement also increases Agility. Yes, that's how the mage/cleric with a ton of spells/miracles and 3 ADP rolls through your attacks.
it's nowhere near the same extent as ADP. high ATN and no ADP does not equal high I-frames.
@@BabsOfEao ATN doesn't stack Agility as quickly as ADP, but my end game mages always have minimum 99 Agility purely from ATN, so I have no idea what you're on about.
@@dj_daem0n if you have like 20 ATN and 20 ADP you would probably have more s than with 40 ATN
@@NichtDjkfjvzkt Yeah, i'm aware it's not one for one. But my point, again, was that it ALSO builds Agility and eventually gets you there for mage/cleric builds.
@@dj_daem0n completely agree. You level fast enough in DS2 that by the end I almost always am running some form of a battle mage even on a str or dex build, so I almost never actually up my ADP and can roll just fine
Last Return To Drangleic, i spent entire days in Drangleic Castle doing the Mirror Squire summon. Great times yesss
Required dump stats that actively hamper the core gameplay experience if you forego them are in fact bad design
Removing directional movement is in fact bad design
Framing things as punishments or bonuses is in fact an important aspect of game design
Tacked on low effort areas are in fact bad design
No single problem in a vacuum is a gamebreaker, but lots and lots(and lots) of little things add up to make the game worse
I know you needed the disclaimer at the beginning but I have over 300 hours in dark souls 2 and don't need anyone to tell me it's shit. I just like hearing people say it. I still appreciate your video even though you like it.
Dark Souls 2 is probably the game I've put the most hours into in any of the DS trilogy. It helps that it's longer than 1 and 3, but there's also way more you can do on every playthrough that encourages replayability.
So i will say this, DS2 was my first souls game. I love it. However, i think it is probably the worst souls title. I say this for a few reasons. I find that a lot of the reasons you showed love to this game are not features warrented or wanted in a souls game. I once read someone saying that it's a great game but a bad souls game, and i wholeheartedly agree.
For starters, the ADP was full on a bad choice, and i will die on this hill. The frame rates of my character should not take away from my actual character build. As to why anyone would want this, im not sure. In a souls game, a series with renowned difficulty as a main feature, this was an unnecessary added layer.
You said at one point that you shouldn't be running to the bosses, as you're missing part of the point. The exploration, the item gathering, etc. I get that and also understand that they included the enemies' respawn limits to help serve the purpose of helping those out. That limit is somewhere between 12-15 if i recall correctly. That is an absolutely asinine amount, man. It should not take that many attempts to fully explore an area, and that gets made all the more annoying when considering the importance of durability and dying. Both of which can cause enemies in the areas to be at different respawn levels, becoming a pain to track. The idea of exploration mixed with available boss runs was handled way better in later titles such as elden ring. This turns most maps into a slow grind fest as you make your way through those insane 12-15 respawns every area to make it to the boss. Unacceptable, in my opinion.
This is more of a personal gripe, but i hold some amount of resentment towards any game that requires me to do a new game plus to get the full experience of it. Some games handle it well, such as nier automata, but DS2 is certainly not a great example of it. I do appreciate that it handled letting you see these things early via the asthetic system, but i think the regular souls games handled this better by just adding a bit more lore there instead of whole new interactions and information tidbits which are integral to the understanding of its lore, one of my personal favorite parts of these games.
I also wanna comment on how poorly this game handled the series traditions of looping back to old areas. The giant memories felt like a very poor idea to me as a way to pull you back to old areas and was an incredible disappointment considering the beauty of how they were handled in DS1. In the first game, this truly felt like a great show of how connected the world was and still felt like progress where as DS2 made this feel more like an abrupt slow down of pace and only further fueled my issues with its world layout. I blame this partially on the devleopera making teleportation available from the beginning instead of making it an earned reward, but that's another personal gripe.
Souls games have always had multiplayer be a seemless part of the world, and i approve of how they handle it. I still think the idea of creating areas for the soul purpose of encouraging multiplayer to be in bad taste. They may be adding nothing completely new, but one day when the servers no longer maintain good player bases this will leave them with poorly performing AI partners who will attempt to fight everything in their path, looping back to my issues with lacking in efficient boss runs.
The hollowing mechanic in DS2 is a beautiful example of a concept that is great on paper, horrible in execution. This is a fantastic execution of the idea behind hollowing. Slowly loosing yourself to the curse, and it's really cool.Thiss issu, however, lies in execution. You mentioned the ring of hollowing to help limit thi, and yes, you're absolutely correct that it helps. That does not, however, make it a good way to handle this. Just like the ADP stat, this is another example of DS2 requiring me to divert parts of my build to help handle or adjust its bad design choices. My build should not need to have itself diminished or made less powerful for the sake of maintaining this.
The gank fights this game poses can, for a lot of people, be a horrible turn-off. Both the boss versions and the regular ones within areas. SOTFS then proceeded to double down on that philosophy and add more enemies in sneakier places to surprise players. This one depends on player personality, but I'll admit i found this to be a bad choice when considering the previously mentioned issues of no real boss runs, slow area grinds, durability limits being quite serious, etc.
I know. I've said a lot of negative here, but i truly do love DS2. It introduced me to a series that has, by no small means, helped shape me a person. It did many great things for the series. I love its additions of powerstancing, i will stare at some of its environments for hours and bask in their majestic views and ambience, the music is some of my personal favorite (looking at you majula theme), and more.
None of this is to say i disliked your video. I actually was really happy to see it. It reminds me how different things can catch the attention and both the love and/or ire of an audience. We both love this game for different reasons, but regardless, it matters. Thanks for defending this classic, my dude.
Praise the sun and dont you dare go hollow my friend.
I love backstep I-frames! It made for really neat mix-ups in pvp
Those why-ds2-sucks videos actually inspired me to play ds2 again!
It's funny how people don't know how to approach areas methodically and blame the game for something those people failed to learn.
These people don't shoot long range enemies. They just run in with their broadsword, triggering every gank point, and rush to the fog wall and get hit... it's quite hilarious. Though I tried doing that in Elden Ring, and the game became a whole lot easier, which made me respect ds2 a bit more.
I'm happy to learn that pvp etiquette is a ds2 thing. I'm proud of our community!
My main gripe with SOTFS is the petrified enemies that you need to use fragrant branches of yore on. It is a cool idea but imo there are too many statues and not enough readily available branches for a new player to not get confused and possibly miss out on cool content.
13:02 "this is one of those games" no, this is a buggy mess of a movement system that could have been decent if it weren't for all the bugs such as direction snapping and makin the player hit in the complete opposite direction they aimed randomly
seems like a skill issue on your part ngl 🤷♂
@@desplanchesstevan1418 yeah, more like dev's skill issue
@@AltFromTheLimbo You need to skill adaptability irl bro
@@marloges nah, i'm not merican or brit
"buggy". you have no idea what you're talk about.
I had more fun in playing dark souls 2 then i did playing dark souls remastered. my only issue is enemy placement in some areas.
Pretty sure I remember back step iframing that barrel in undead burg just after the Pine resin in ds1 but has been a long time maybe ive miss remembered it
There are no i-frames on backsteps in ds1, so it was likely either a bug or you're misremembering.
@@unrefinedmorosis5546There are, however it’s an incredibly small window of opportunity. Something like four s. However backsteps on DS1 also have infinite hyper armor meaning you can trivialize a lot of traps by backstepping through them, such as the barrel in Undead Burg or the ball trap in the Asylum
Despite beating the game several times I somehow never noticed the dragon knights bowing, even when I did 1v1 the big knights and they let me pass I somehow ignored it or didn’t notice them or forgot that happened immediately after. That area was one of my least favourite because of all the enemies, but really I’m just super stupid. And those stone knights in heide’s tower, well I just never trusted them and so never settled for fighting that middle guy, always thinking the other two enemies would surround me if I didn’t try and leave quickly
"ADP isnt communicated to new players" Theres a tool, that you showed you using, that allows you to read what stats do. If they used that to then hover over the AGL stat, like you didnt show for whatever reason, they would see it explains that it governs their rolls effectiveness.
Governs roll effectiveness is as helpful as a stat that tells players it governs weapon effectiveness - it should have said that agility adds i-frames to your rolls
@@nickoliekeyov746 Japanese game translated to english, also the average player that wouldnt know what "invincibility frames" are would be more confused, saying it makes roll dodging more effective is a perfectly fine choice, stop being hate biased and finding poor excuses to discredit the game
Just like is said in the video, the soulsborne series is no stranger to leave mechanics unexplained to the player. This can already be a controversial matter, and theres for sure an interesting conversation in regards of how much agency the games give to learn driven by our own commitment. However, in my opinion, and as the video also points out, the difference lies in not making the player aware of the change of a fundamental mechanic of the previous games, while also only making this information accessible either by a tool that most players aren't well aware of, or worse, an external source of information. In hindsight, it's easy to see not only the issue, but what you could have done to understand it in the first place, the problem is the player with no idea of the inner workings of the game, and trust set in their previous knowledge, has no clue to be guided to this realization, but rather to a feeling of frustration. Granted, adaptation is a quality that tends to be very troublesome in gamers, but is understandable to see so many crash in their own expectations in a game that has no means to ease that transition.
@@henrryeaeaea you open any menu in the game and the bottom of your screen it says "help" with a button prompt.
@@angrymedic3803Why anyone that has no knowledge about what is the real problem happening would search specifically there? As I said, it's easy to say it when you are coming from the solution, but a player that doesn't even know what it's the problem has absolutely no reason to check in the first place.
Getting into DS2 PvP was and is still the height of my FromSoftware experience
same for me bro, and i started with demon's souls ps3 back in the days, played all FS games, i lived the FS evolution, i tried every pvp and ds2 pvp IS THE BEST EXPERIENCE I'VE EVER HAD IN THESE GAMES.
(iron keep fight clubs
I really enjoy Dark Souls 2 but these defenses of it are absurd IMO. Any argument to the effect of "that was the intent!" fundamentally misses the point that the intent makes zero difference to the result. On top of that, any argument of what players should and shouldn't be doing in order to enjoy the game is nonsense.
Okay we shouldnt tell the players what they should be doing to enjoy the game. Now we have a player who is playing XCOM and refusing to not only use cover but then he exclusively only takes shots wich got a under 30% chance to hit. The player now calls XCOM the worst game to ever exist and when people point out he plays like a idiot who is setting himself up to lose by refusing to change how he plays he goes and says "I shouldnt be doing that to enjoy the game". Would you take any of this players words seriously or call his IQ to be too low to even understand hypotheticals.
"Any argument of what the players should and shouldn't be doing in order to enjoy the game is nonsense"
So, if you have someone playing Battlefield with knife only, they refuse to jump on a vehicle, they refuse to use a firearm, they refuse to use granades, they refuse to use absolutely any tool the game gives them BUT the knife. They found themselves getting killed from 1 mile away everytime they reach open areas, and when people say that they SHOULD be using firearms in their FIRST PERSON SHOOTER, they just say that the game has poor design and the game should be made for people who only wants to use knives and doesn't use any of the 120 different weapons that the devs took years developing just for the people to brutaly ignore them to use the knife.
No, every game has a given way for you to play it. You are not intended to play bloodborne with your bare hands, you're not intended to play Sekiro without parrying, you're not intended to play Elden Ring without Torrent, you're not intended to play DS2 rushing everysingle area of the game like a headless chicken.
Try any of those options and you're going to get destroyed by the game and you're going to complain about how the game is poorly designed just because you refused to adapt on how the game's intended to be played.
If a given area is intended to be played on co-op but you have the option to play it solo, then you HAVE to know that you're taking a high risk because you have a huge handicap from the beginning, the area is supposed to be played with 2-3 players so there will be a proper amount of enemies for those 2-3 players to fight.
If you play it solo and get ganked, that's not the game's fault, that's your mistake from trying solo something that's intended to be played in group, if you don't like it, it doesn't mean it's a bad game, it just means that the game is not for you, and that's it
I’m sayin!
7:31 Attunement raises Agility so if youre using magic you dont need to raise Adaptability
12:15 "you can just move the camera" it doesn't matter if you can turn by moving the camera, having controls that snap the player in an incorrect direction is objectively a flaw that never shod have existed in the first place
Something you don't like is not an objective flaw. Many Games have snap movement (e.g. Zelda BOTW) DS2 is just one of those. Are all those Games objectively flawed?
@@holler_pit5243 if something doesn't work the way it's supposed to, going against all other instances and screwing with the player then it is objectively a flaw and none of your mental gymnastics that would put a 4:th dimensional being to shame will ever change that fact
@@holler_pit5243 also, that Zelda example is complete and utter BS and you know it
@@thefastsnake3015 Could you at least provide something to support that a) the movement in DS2 doesn't work or doesn't work like it's supposed to and b) how it's screwing with players before claiming something as fact. Also what is "going against all other instances" supposed to mean?
@@thefastsnake3015 How is that Zelda example bs? If you don't have the game yourself there's plenty of footage online where you can see links movement. And again those are not the only games that have this kind of movement.
The visuals for The Shopping Cart Theory reading?? Peak. PEAK, I SAY! You deserve 10, no, 20 times more subscribers, you're doing great work!
Fun fact: DS3 fall damage is calculated as if your have Embered health, whether you are Embered or not. So in essence, for fall damage at least, if you aren't Embered you are at 70% max HP, and you are put at 100% max HP if you use an Ember. It is literally semantics, the games (DeS, DS2, DS3) are designed around different amounts of max HP, and people still complain about it.
Soulsborne NG+ loops are a good idea, but as so far implemented, they are not nearly enough of a change to be worthwhile... for the most part, and it's not like it's impossible to make NG+ amazing, Fromsoft just hasn't made the choices that would make NG+ amazing.
Perhaps they should look to Nier Automata or the Zero Escape Series NG+ experiences, and while Diablo incentivizes replays and extended playing, grinding isn't a thing everyone enjoys... plus DS2 loot stats are static, there's no surprise of finding an armor piece with a bit more defense or a weapon with a modifier that makes it better for a certain infusion.
I had so much nostalgia for this game. I remember being late to the party with 1 so I made sure to play this one at launch. I never got around to playing the DLC and forgot I bought the SotFS edition. I think its time to give this another go
If you’re a true DS enjoyer, then everything ‘different and quirky’ about this game is a feature to be explored and enjoyed. There are new challenges not offered by the other games. As with the other games though, you will have great success with creative problem solving, patience, composure, and resistance to greed. As stated in the video, when you master an aspect of this game then you will come to love it too.
This is such a bad take. It doesn't make you any less of a "true DS enjoyer" to take issues with the game. Being a fan of something does not mean blindly accepting and enjoying all aspects of something.
@@MarioFromMario Without rewatching the video, I don’t think you’re reading my comment in relation to the message of the video. 9 years of this game for me and I love it more as I learn more with each play through. Everyone is in a different stage of discovery and frustration regarding the games, but those who have played them all and still want challenge and variety will often come back to this game for the reasons I laid out above, and beyond.
Majula theme goes HARD, BRO, congrats on the work!
The “extra health” argument is a bit bad faith in my opinion when you don’t even consider 1) the state your character starts in at the beginning of the game. 2) the ways in which you can reach that state. And 3) the state most players will naturally lean into.
Demon’s Souls and Dark Souls 2 are arguably on similar ground but one major difference is that upon defeating a boss in DeS the game rewards you with returning your character to their beginning state. DS2 doesn’t do this.
DS3 has you start out in an unembered form. This is your base state. When you’re embered it’s like you’re going super saiyan. It’s not health you lost upon your first death it’s bonus health that you gained either through using a consumable or defeating a boss. Pretending that the “hollow” states between DS2 and DS3 are one to one is dishonest. I can die to Iudex Gundry a hundred times and nothing happens to my health. Upon one death to the Last Giant or the Pursuer and I’m already at a disadvantage.
Also most people will play these games in a “hollow” state but those two states are very different across the games. In DS1 it’s simply a cosmetic change. In three you power down and lose the spiky golden hair and health bonus, only regaining it upon defeating a boss or using an ember for an out of estus heal and In DeS and DS2 you loose a ring slot.
All of this to say that DS3 did it best. Also you’ll never convince me that DS2 doesn’t feel infinitely more clunky than the other souls games. Sorry.
tf is wrong with your head lmao
s e m a n t i c
Thank you for making such a great video. It's been interesting just to see the view on Dark Souls 2 change. I remember watching Noah-Caldwell Gervais's video on Dark Souls and having my mind open. It's such an interesting series and the second one is just "the bad one" it's more than that. From gameplay to story.
Thanks for making this video!
5:49 did you actually compare hit boxes to ping in elden ring? Apples and oranges my dude
Whataboutism is a common theme among these DS2 apologists.
Especially when the parallel between the two isn't even there.
Elden ring has those shitty bleed dogs that one shot you therefore dark souls 2 is a good game
I played through this recently and I was pretty fond of it myself. What I didn't like is alot of the boss fights were kind of a joke with how easy they were. Other issue is the start of the game can be abit frustrating with the amount of enemies thrown at you while only having 1-2 flasks to work with. Aside that the rest of the game was a trip, and I don't get why it gets as much hate as it does.
The issue with Adaptability in my opinion is that it demands player investment.
As for Ember vs Hollowing, the player feel is important. When you Ember up it feels like an improvement from the base, whereas each subsequent death lowering your health more and more can feel more demoralizing. Also the ring of binding reducing the health lost can feel like a tax on less skilled players.
Repeat bosses, I disagree that the co-op areas feel optional in the same way that the optional bosses from Elden Ring do because they have Souls attached to them.
Boss runbacks are an issue because of losing souls and just the issue of wanting to rechallenge the boss as soon as you can.
Despawning enemies can also feel bad for players that are farming for a specific item or are trying to get strong enough to face a boss. While there is the CoC, it doesn't really communicate what the effects of joining the covenant are and just says that your journey will be harder.
Also more than anything else, Dark Souls II fails to explain how it is different from Dark Souls I. It took me years to find it in myself to enjoy DS2 and there are still parts I'd rather not engage in. These are just my thoughts and while I'd like conversation, I do think it might lead to argument. Cheers.
The problem with Adaptability which everyone just ignores is that virtually every player will end up investing in. At least to a specific point, for a similar amount of i-frames as you'd probably have in Dark 1 or Demon's.
Which, at this point, the question becomes... why bother? It is literally just going to pad out your level for PvP, or slow your growth early-game for PvE purposes. People don't like being given choices when one is so clearly the best option- otherwise they walk away feeling punished for choosing what they want rather than what they didn't realize was so vital.
Do you wanna level up Intelligence so you can use cooler spells sooner? Or maybe Strength so you can finally make use of that giant axe burning a hole in your box... The correct answer is ADP, idiot. Enjoy having terrible rolls for another few levels.
"Repeat bosses, I disagree that the co-op areas feel optional in the same way that the optional bosses from Elden Ring do because they have Souls attached to them."
Many optional bosses in Souls games have souls attached to them. Moonlight Butterfly, Oceiros, and Champion Gundyr are examples deom DS1 and DS3 that are fully optional.
"Boss runbacks are an issue because of losing souls and just the issue of wanting to rechallenge the boss as soon as you can."
This gets to an idea that friction is bad in games when it isnt. Why should the game allow the player to challenge the boss as soon as possible?
@@rslrandy Point One: Yes you are correct. In fact that is part of my point, those optional bosses feel just as important to the game and their areas are not designed as total gauntlets.
Ocieros is a bit of a bad example in this regard as you do have to beat him to unlock one of the endings and in order to reach two late game areas.
Point Two: Friction is good. But it is something that has to be balanced with player retention. There is a reason that Elden Ring introduced the Stakes of Marika even with lifting a lot of other design elements from DS2. You don't have to reslog through the area again to rechallenge the boss, but you can't change up spells or spend your runes.
This video was refreshingly analytical and sound while defending DS2, but I disagree with some of the conclusions he draws as they disregard the player’s feelings when playing. Embers feel better than humanity, and even if the hit boxes technically aren’t broken that doesn’t make them feel any more fair
The investment is neglectable. Not only is the cost of leveling up smaller than in other souls titles you also don't have to level adp to finish the game.
A little glazing here for some ds2 features. If i lvl health 10 levels and let's just say it goes up by 200. This mechanic means if i really suck my health only increases by 150 with the hollow ring... Which Limits builds on top or even just 100 without. Vs ds3 where i get 10 levels in health goes up 200 and with the embering i get 260 extra health. So not the same thing. It doesn't matter the labels. Numbers wise one makes my health levels at least 25 percent worthless per level while the other makes my health levels potentially 30 percent more powerful if i use an item. Sounds the same except one my health actually goes up when i level it and the other just makes it hurt a little less when i die per level.
Also ADP is nothing like any other feature in the other ds games. It's only a soft lock but even letting fat roll keep same I frames as naked roll because you level adp doesn't feel good either. If i want better frames while rolling i should level up my weight so i can literally be more nimble while heavier. Now i have to choose (technically i don't) between i frames while dodging OR getting the F up and swing my weapon holy F the fat roll takes forever to get up. It's in your face. It doesn't feel good. Never had to know what i frames were in any game cus it's supposed to be seamless.
Bro the bossfight difficulty and or run back argument for BA is weird. The bosses just feel like health sponges the whole game. So the difficulty argument is trash. I beat around half the bosses first try because do like 3 moves each. Best fight is smelter and that one feels more like a fight with the camera than a boss. Noone wants the boss attaco to have the same hitboxes as us you're crazy. Thats what makes games feel good. Barely hitting attacks we thought might miss or barely dodging attacks that maybe would have hit us is good game theory. It doesn't feel better because i know i didn't get hit by that giant hot dog hit box. It would feel better if the animation didn't touch me so i didn't take damage. No one should agree with this cus no one has played any other game like that and said it was good.
NG+ though is an actual W all the way. Very impressed with the ascetic and NG+ mechanics. Theres more i like but there's plenty of ds2 defenders out there. Trying to debate that these things make sense or make the game better is wild.
I respect your opinion, but dark souls 2 is my least favorite game of all time, and while I wish I can find enjoyment within it, there is far to many things I dislike that keep me from ever going back to that game.
Git gud
I love when the response is just "Git Gud" when the problems I have with the game are far deeper then that. In fact, I think its on the easier side of what a souls game can be and have beaten the game twice.
@@sean6253nope actually you are bad at games best souls 2 is the greatest game of all time
I recognize that DS2 is a “worse” game than DS1 and 3. That being said, I still think it’s a masterpiece of its own and I PERSONALLY prefer it to the others
it's not "worse", it's just different
You bought yourself a subscription w that shopping cart gag
Il glad all the dark souls 2 defenders only have like a thousand subscribers. Good to see justice in the world
Throughout playing the game for the first time, I realized that the more patient I was the more I got rewarded. I actually was on the covenant that made the enemy despawn mechanic go away the whole time too and I still had a blast. If you treat the bonfires as like a level and the entire dungeon like a world, it makes a lot more sense in terms of how they scaled the game. It's the patience in DS2 that makes the community dislike it so much cause if you rush through everything the game will punish you... hard. Elden ring's dlc is like this too and now it's getting review bombed for being "too hard" and "difficult just for the sake of being difficult." If people leveled up their scadutree blessings they wouldn't have this problem, and if people were to just kill enemies on runbacks and then try out the bosses in DS2, they wouldn't have as many problems. For some of the really insane bosses in the game too, they increased the difficulty and made the runback smaller or non existent (like burnt ivory king or fume knight) with the exception of sir alonne.
The amount of Whataboutisms, bad faith and anecdotal arguments in this video is so exhasperating, the last straw was the repeat bosses argument and I feel my hand being forced here. _Yes_ Elden Ring has repeat bosses, in fact every souls game does to an extent...but you must have been living under a rock if you havent been made aware that EVERYONE CRITIZES THOSE TOO! Hell the repeat bosses is like the most maligned aspect of Elden Ring. Thats why I cant stand DS2 fanboys, they act like pointing out any flaw DS2 shares with the rest of the franchise is some scathing "GOTCHA" as if the rest of the fandom hasn't already acknowledged and accosted those faults ten years ago.
_You wanna know why DS2 gets dogged on so much?_ its not any ONE issue, theres no *singular fatal flaw* with the game, DS2's failure is the result of a *_death by a thousand cuts._* a long list of compounding issues that are wildly, disproportionately larger than the amount of elements the game gets RIGHT.
And no I dont think DS1 is all that good either, I think the fact anyone could consider it the "Ultimate Video Game of All time" is nothing short of a complete farce, but what it does have that DS2 lacks is a clear and consistent artistic vision (Note: consistent vision is NOT to be mistaken for consistent quality as im sure the conflation stirred within anyone reading this)
Yeah you can manually aim your character in any direction you want to walk, you could also manually aim your character in DS1 if you wanted to omnidirectional roll, that doesn't mean 8 directional snap points and cardinal rolling aren't BOTH obsolete garbage.
The online etiquette argument is purely anecdotal and has no actual weight, invaders always had means of healing themselves, in DS1 it was humanity to which they could have 99 and it was easy to farm, in DS2 most invaders had warmth which was essentially free regardless of your build if they needed to heal and would often do so taking cover behind enemies, which is factually better balanced than humanity stacking but again, this is all about a purely situational and subjective non-argument in the first place.
New Game + Its not all that special, you get some unique interactions yes, Freyja's ambush, the old lords souls, new rings and various other equipment, its neat, but it actually aggravates one of the games worst issues, enemy gank spam scenarios and this time it doesnt have the DLC's conceit of being "Multiplayer Zones". The Lost Sinner is not made better by adding two back up dancers, and the "new enemies" are mostly just buffed up phantoms of standard enemies from the first cycle, its gravelording that you cant TURN OFF. Again, not really all that special.
ADP and Human Effigies, I dont have an objective counter point, only that I and a grand majority of the soulsborne audience prefer having no health penalty on death and attributing I-frames to equipment load. I'm just bringing it up to address the point, I think both are "Fine", they are functioning mechanics (Blocking and circle strafing is more efficient than dodging in DS2 anyways)
Heres some major sticking points of DS2 criticism the video DIDNT cover,
>The comically exaggerated fall damage,
>the wet paper durability system
>the prolonged vulnerability of player hit stun
>the lack of I-frames when interacting with environmental objects, such as the BOSS FOG WALLS, ADP aint fixing that, and NO running out the enemy respawn limit is NOT a good solution to this problem either.
>the awful stamina economy that pollutes every action the player takes.
>SOUL MEMORY: a counter productive feature designed to negate twinking that was just as easily subverted by meta gaming invaders who were already twinking and only became an intrusive hurdle for co-op players.
>The busted status effects, Bleed dealing a single FLAT damage number that NEVER scales making it quickly fall off in relevancy beyond the early game. and then theres poison and toxic, also known as "Toxic" and "SUPER Toxic" -(Kinda like this text wall huh?)-
>The laughably impotent and uninspired boss fights, having to wait until the DLC for just a handful of good fights is just kinda sad.
>Life Gems disrupting the entire balance of the games difficulty and even rendering the Estus Flask borderline irrelevant in most cases until the end game.
>The ugly and pointless filter effect that layers over the intro cutscene to every single boss fight in the game
>The borderline absent plot of the games narrative, this is an issue that even carries over into the DLC up until the Crown of the Ivory King, because both prior DLC's have zero NPC interactions that drive the plot forward, I find it hilarious that people think Fume Knight is even comparable to Artorias when he has little to no actual characterization what so ever.
I'll stop it there, because honestly the games half baked attempt at a story is probably one of the most offensive faults to me personally, and if anyones immediate response to these added faults is "Well what about-" I'm gonna stop you there and give you the first place Darwin award for *_"Completely Missing the Point"_*
Its not even a "You just dont like it because its not like Dark Souls 1" issue, because Fromsoft has released plenty of games since that resemble DS1 EVEN LESS than DS2 and are still universally acclaimed because of their outstanding quality, Bloodborne, Sekiro and Armored Core.
I'm sorry if DS2 is your favorite game, and if any of this _hurt your feelings_ but you can acknowledge something is subpar while still finding entertainment out of it, ( I enjoy the Jurassic Park sequals, _we can both have terrible tastes together_ ☮😘)
theres no need to blow a games quality out of proportion to justify your enjoyment of the product, ESPECIALLY when you feel the need to try and tear down other works just to prop it up, it just makes you come off as insecure and disingenuous. Newer players would probably be more willing to give DS2 a break if its fanbase were more open and honest about its faults instead blaming everyone else for being close minded
You've missed the entire point of the video. There is no such thing as bad taste. Taste is taste. Video games are subjective. The fact you'd go so far out of your way to look for objective reasons why the game is bad tells me all I need to know. If you don't like it, just don't play it. You don't need to write a comprehensive breakdown to convince someone why they're wrong for liking something. Critique for the developers I understand, but the game came out ten years ago. Whatever advice you have for them they already took and applied to their later games. Why you have this insatiable need for everyone to share your negative opinion, I will never comprehend.
@@BabsOfEao
Okay slow your roll there, that statement of "no such thing as bad taste" is not only incorrect thats a take that can be down right problematic.
There is ABSOLUTELY bad tastes.
Jokes that glorify or make light of serious topics such as bigotry and "R4p3" ARE in bad taste
finding enjoyment or entertainment in child/animal abuse is absolutely in bad taste
Now did I jump to the most absurd logical extreme of this counter argument over such a trivial topic of video game preferences? maybe, but it does solidify my point.
and if you honestly think thats still just a matter of "subjectivity"
you got issues only a licensed medical professional would be qualified to treat.
@@sasaki999pro Excuse me. You're comparing Dark Souls 2 to racism and sexual assault. I'm not the one with the issues here pal
@@BabsOfEao And now you're putting words in my mouth, I never compared DS2 to those subjects, I DEBUNKED your statement about "Tastes"
@@sasaki999pro You know what you've done.
Hey man, really enjoyed this video. You made a ton of great points and the overall structure was organized and flowed well. Great message at the end of the video. Keep it up
28:46 This is absurd, plenty of people love the way that Lies of P treats its ng+
31:07 You literally have just admitted that there is no reason to argue with you because your bias covers your eyes.
I know you ain't talking to be about bias rn
@@BabsOfEao ? In what way am I biased?
if you compare a lot more people don`t like it just because plenty of people love it dosen´t mean all
@@NichtDjkfjvzkt i have never seen a single criticism of the ng+ of lies of p. do you have any evidence to substantiate this?
7:40 ADP increases the speed of damn near every animation, including casting. Even as a caster, you would want relatively high ADP
@nihlmorton7809 ADP is only for consumable use speed. Cast speed a completely different thing, governed by attunement. But attunement also increases Agility! Probably where you're mixed up
DS2 is a fine game, but its defenders are insanely annoying. They'll make the worst fucking arguments known to man and will expect normal people to accept it
It always boils down to them making objective statements like "DS2 is the BEST souls game ever and everyone else is 100% FACTUALLY WRONG" but the second they get even the slightest amount of push back with people poking holes in their logic they always cower behind their subjectivity shield
"Well thats just my OPINION man, cant you just let people enjoy things? stop being so negative >:("
And it's always "oh, but DS1/DS3/ER aren't perfect either". Ok, we know? How does that make DS2 better?
I really enjoyed playing through DS2 but by the end I was so exhausted that I can't see myself playing it again. I don't think it's a bad game, but it does have some terrible mechanics and design choices that should be addressed.
@@sisterofquelaag It *Is* a bad game and that's FINE. This is the problem most people have, we ALL like terrible things they just can't accept that objectively speaking Dark souls 2 is a bloody mess that's indefensible in most aspects of a "Soulsborne" game.
@@jay6113 I'm more of the opinion that it's a bad souls game but an ok game, although that may be because I just feel bad saying it's a bad game lol. But I get it, there's a reason why I've never wanted to play it again while I've played the others multiple times.
While I don't agree on your stand on some things and, to this day, I still feel like DS2 it's my less favorite game on the series, it's always nice to see a video so clearly made out of the passion and love for your connection with the game. I'm so done of the average ensayist or critics thinking that their job is only about focusing only on the flaws of a work instead of the balance with it's strenghts and what makes for a meaningful experience.
Also, since we already went past of the DLC release I was curious to hear your thoughts. I doubt that it made ER to go up to your favorite since it doesn't quite offer what you love so bad in DS2, but it's interesting nonetheless.
I love how you dismiss the ADP critique as simple as a Git Gud argument. It's not. ADP is essential in some playstyle especially to new players. And they don't even know that it's essential. And even when they did upgrade it. The changes aren't very apparent. And it doesn't help that its movement are janky. Which connects to the next point.
The movement is slow and janky. It limits you to 8 conical directional movement and when you require a precise movement in a fight. Will fck you up. Sometimes your character will randomly turn around 360 degrees. Stopping you in your tracks. Giving chances to your opponents to backstab you. Or just makes you fall. Sometimes you dont attack your front. it turns to the side specifically because of the random turning. You roll slow, plus i frames being inconsistent until certain numbers and your attacks won't even attack where it was supposed to be.
The Co-Op areas are bad even with friends. Frigid Outskirt is still frustrating as fck. The Gank Boss Fights aren't even challenging when Solo. And this guy legit thinks the Blue Smelter Demon boss run is not damnable. Even with 2 other friends this boss run is frustrating.
Also, the gall of this man to say DS1's demon ruins are bad. When boss run to the Smelter Demon exist.
The self jerk off for the "being respectful in PvP" thing is mind boggling. Stuff has existed since Demon's Souls.
The balls of this man to say that getting swarmed is good. Unsportsmanlike? You want me to waste so much time killing the same enemies 6x just so that I don't get fcked when reaching the boss? Wtf are you smoking? THE BEST MECHANIC? Holy hell this guy LOVES wasting his time. The boss run to Smelter Demon, to Sir Alonne, to Blue Smelter Demon, Shrine of Amana, King Vendrick, and oh god so, So, SO MUCH MORE. They want you to waste so much time. Killing the same enemies over and over again. Just so that your run to the boss that's not even that good won't be frustrating.
All and all, it's just the masochists talking. The slow movement plus the jank makes it the worst when it comes to movement. I feel more natural with DS1 and DeS's movement system. And since it is both janky and slow. The already bad hit boxes gets even more prevalent. So it has all that. Plus bad boss runs and enemies. That is very long and lengthy. Imagine seeing Lost Izalith's boss run and says "Let's make that normal".
The gsme is very much not for me. But then these same fckers will say that DS3 is objectively the worst. The moment you tried to make an argument in defense of ADP is already proof enough that you will absolutely forgive all of this game's glaring flaws.
good writeup and I agree with you
I love this game!!!!!! Basically everything you said about it is how I feel about it myself and it's just so much fun to me. I love it for the same reasons I love Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal. It gives you so much freedom and so much to do, you have way more fun if you play it to fuck around and do what you want rather than just trying to get to the end like so many people do. This extends to a lot of other RPGs too, even in the Pokemon and Souls franchises.