I was going to the audio shop with the idea of getting the much more expensive Focal Clear MG that I thought sounded drab compared to the Ananda's. The Ananda's gave me chills when I listened to music, which is something I can say not many headphones do for me. I'm glad I bought the Ananda's based on what my ears hear and not based on science because to my ears these sure as hell sound good. When it comes to headphones and music gear, best advice is trust what you hear. Music is just so subjective and a matter of preferences in the end. Price means nothing.
Trust what you hear ? So all these golden ears people hearing differences between cables and DAC are reliable to you? Never trust your ears fully, or confirmation bias will get to you. (and you wallet)
its not always about measurments so your comments about it being a floored headphone is meaningless the headphone ananda sounds amazing , measurements mean nothing most of the time .
Beyond the good answers given, we need to determine if distortion is rising linearity or non-linearity. If for example I add 10 dB to the level, does distortion go up 10 dB or 20? And in what region. With three data points (levels), you can extrapolate and figure out for example whether your EQ is producing more distortion than it should. It also separates superb headphones from the rest in their ability to accept these levels and produce little distortion.
@@AudioScienceReview thanks for the comment! given your statement, doesn't this mean headphone construction needs to be as small as possible compared to driver area, as well as little to no acoustic impedance in front or behind the driver? given some of the tests it doesn't seem like headphones that match that description seem to measure well, inversely some examples of the opposite measure well.
While I do agree that a worst case "bad seal" scenario must be taken into account, I do believe that the best case "full seal" scenario should also be considered in an analysis. I appreciate that you don't mindlessly default to the best case scenario for analysis, as so many do, but maybe look into including both in your reviews. We don't know which variant is more common, that is to say, we don't know whether it's more common for people to get good or bad seal. So it's only fair to look at both perspectives.
I hear you. As I noted in the written review, I did attempt to improve the seal but it was not possible with the sample I had. Fortunately the deviation was small between 20 and 30 Hz so I don't think it is material to the analysis of the headphone otherwise.
Please could you clarify more in details why you would measure THD at crazy 114 dB? and also why commenting on the 114dB curve and not the more typical 100dB? An SPL of 100dB is really the absolute maximum, everybody that cares about their ears should not listen at these levels. So if I would design a headphone I wouldn't go crazy to minimise the distortion at 114dB, people would never listen to that. It's like designing a car that can go at 300km/h where the speed limit everywhere is 90km/h. The THD at 100dB seems fairly reasonable and in line with many great open planar headphones. I am not a fan of the Ananda, I never listened to them, but your analysis and discussion in particular about the THD seems a very peculiar and unfair way to judge headphones. I am curious, please could you clarify?
It is because he has bad hearing. So his subjective reviews need to be discarded. Additionally if you read his “reviews” with measurements he will make numerous references to his highly flawed measuring methodology. Not only on headphones ( not making sure headphones are sealed properly is lazy and many others have measured these on the same device with great results).
Amir, do you think the distortion helps create the spatiality? I like the Ananda but I'm happier to see objective research / measurements go into understanding how and why there is an affect or a cause. edit- and i struggle to get a good seal as well. When i do, my lower jaw hurts after some time.
I don't think distortion helps. But the messiness in Group Delay may. That indicates multiple sources of reflections and that may create some spatial effects.
Coming from the forum thanks for doing this. Just ordered the smsl sp200 hope this good amp for the heatset. was looking at the ifi zen dac v2 hope i picked right looking for some bass.
I own the Anandas and there's no way that they have "distortion" at 'sane' listening levels. Most of your "distortion" tests were well beyond the volume level of what most people will ever listen to them. Even if there's musical peaks that reach 114dB (the max level you tested, ie: with the worst distortion) they're mostly instantaneous and won't be noticed as "distortions" at all. The Ananda is a fine set of HPs that don't even really need EQing if one has the right chain - ie: discrete Class A or AB instead of IC-based amps that may/will accentuate the Ananda's slight brightness, pushing it over the top into the too bright territory. Happy listening folks.....
I wonder if they fixed most of the problems with the Stealth Edition, it sounded great when I listened to it, actually better than the Arya SE in my opinion.
Not really. You are likely listening to that level and higher without knowing it. I will do a video on this as there is such strong misconception about that. For now, please see this forum post: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/abyss-diana-v2-review-headphone.19291/post-638365
@@AudioScienceReview If I read correctly, you argue that 20Hz at 114 dB is realistic, because the A-weighting reduces 114 to 74 dB and that 74 dB(A) is a safe listening volume according to OSHA. My issue with this argument is that if you were to listen to that Chris Jones track with 30 Hz at 114 dB(Z) the content at 3 kHz would be at 84 dB(A). At 1kHz where the A-weighting is the same it even amounts to 94dB(A) which is *clearly* outside of the green zone. When people listen to music they tend to adjust volume based on where it hurts first. This would be between 3 and 4 kHz and not at 30 Hz. Therefore I would argue that 114 dB is outside the realm of "realistic". IMO you can't recommend $2000 speakers that have 12% THD at 30 Hz at 80dB, but start having reservations when a headphone struggles to produce volume that is subjectively TEN TIMES louder. All you accomplish with the 114-test is wreck headphones. The 990 you tested for example is specd to blow up at 100mW. With 250 Ohm impedance and 96dB/mW sensitivity this means you need 80mW to get 115 dB. Couple dB higher and you quickly pass the .1W threshhold. Keep in mind that the 990 has an underhung motor design. This means max power input is not limited by excursion but instead by the voicecoil burning which makes this type more rugged than most headphones on the market that use overhung motors.
@@GrumpiestKittenNo one is advocating that you listen at 114 dBSPL. That level is used to show whether distortion rise is linear or non-linear. It is the third point in the measurement series (94, 104 and 114) so that you can see the trend. It is also there in case you boost the lows a lot. There, your hearing sensitivity is very low so you will not sense much loudness.
Is all that mesurement and technicalities noticeable when you listening music? 👀 All that is subjetive when you listening with your own ears...since is not an exact science
Amir, was the air gap present for all the tests you ran? I'm sure you're aware already as you mention getting feedback several times, but these headphones, and in fact many Hifiman headphones will measure with elevated bass and severe drop off and other anomalies throughout if you measure them without a proper seal. Measuring headphones and in ears without proper seal is the wrong way to go about it in my opinion. Headphones are designed and tuned with seal in mind and users strive to have a good seal. You could do both, that would be okay. Show with and without a seal and what effect it brings. As this review is right now I think it can be misleading for people unaware of these effects. I hope to see better quality reviews in the future as I think your reviews are very well trusted and respected and I wish they will continue to be that way. No offense taken i hope, I love the work you do. For you potential owners out there I'd urge you to be careful about the bass boosts proposed here as it is not needed at all in most cases. If you have a proper seal you could end up boosting them to distortion thinking you have roll off when in fact you already have full sub bass extension. Be careful with it at least. Be very careful if you have for example iFi's xBass/TrueBass or something similar. Those can boost sub bass anywhere from 6-10dB @ 20 Hz. I've had Hifimans many times and I'm all too familiar with these behaviours.
Yes, this was clearly stated in my review both in the video and written version. And in multiple places including the frequency response graph. The gap persisted due to very large cups and inability for it to seal on its own. The impact was only in 20 to 30 Hz so for sure it was not a significant factor in the review.
@@AudioScienceReview Thank you. I saw your video before I saw anything else. But, how can you be sure the gap did not influence the other measurements? Given the large impact it had on the drivers' frequency response. If the driver became uncontrolled and/or unbalanced, one would think this might have lead to more distortion or other undesirable effects(?), Driver instability causing several dB of bass boost and roll off must have had other effects as well? Even if kind of minor, how minor? How can we be sure it only affected the bass response? That is my point, and worry.
This headphone has very big earcups and it doesn't have swivel so it has inconsistent and messed up fit. Even for real life usage you will face these results. It's representative.
Audeze has mastered their drivers compared to Hifiman. Audeze headphones have some of the lowest distortion and group delay measurements out there. But, yes, the stock tonality is a bit wonky as are all the Audeze's. With a couple EQ filters you can fix it right up though.
@@luckyupyours Yes, but so are many headphones regarding stock FR. After EQ'ing their bass/treble/mids quanitities to a similar level, I can truly value each set for their abilities in soundstage, resolution, imaging, timbre, control etc. Without it I just focus on how one sounds too bright or too dark... I still wish to try Hifiman Arya or He1000v2 despite owning the LCD-X.
@@jim8643 If you don't like bright headphones the Arya might disappoint you. The soundstage might make up for it though. I haven't heard any headphone that soundstages like the Arya
@@luckyupyours That soundstage is what sounds intriguing. I heard the bass is deep & has an interesting subwoofer effect (Joshua Valour described it as omnipresent when he was comparing it with the LCD-X).
@@jim8643 The bass does have an interesting presence which depends on the music. If you listen to more instrumental music the Arya would be a better choice than the X. When comparing the two in stock form, they almost seem to make up for each other's weaknesses (if that makes sense). The Arya lacks punchy bass which the X makes up for and the X lacks accurate soundstage depth which the Arya has. Arya is also much more comfortable without messing around which could be a big deal. Basically, if you listen to EDM or hip hop, the X is a better headphone, if not, go for Arya.
Thanks, you should do more video reviews like this (if you have the time of course). I'm still using your 3 Bands Equalization suggestion for the Sundaras as my standard tuning. Sometimes additionally tweaking here and there.
Something I don’t get and please note i am new to all this literally got in to the hobby this year in june …. You said It measures really badly and has a lot of distortion yet it isn’t bad just not your favorite sound, then you EQd your preference but wouldn’t the diaphragm still act the same, and second given the weirdness of it shouldn’t it just sound bad straight off and no one would rave about it at all? I actually have this headphone, and my lcd 2c and HD660s to me sounds technically amazing (by my subjective impression) but I never turned to the ANANDA and ever thought that sounds wrong. i.e. hd650 vs 660s comparing the 2 makes me think something is wrong with the HD650 (veiled) Coz my take away from this video is that objective measurements therefore doesn’t matter and i wasted me time watching this hehehe I’m really just confuse
Disregard this. Let your ears be the judge. I own both the Ananda and the Arya Stealth - and both are excellent HPs. That "distortion" was at a volume level that most listeners will never listen at (114dB!!!) - therefore making it immaterial. Dynamic driver HPs would have much more distortion than planars at that level (and much lower volume levels), plus, they're not even able to reproduce solid subbass like most planars - you'd be missing whole octaves of music, LOL......
I would really love to see Hifiman Sundara reviewed from since they've got really popular lately given their price cut from 500 to 350. Never eared anyone talk bad about them.
This is off the brand subject. What about the Sennheiser HD700, HD800S and HD820. Would like to see a review on these. I didn’t ask about the HE 1 as it is pretty much unobtanium unless you have unlimited funds or a very friendly dealer! Stay safe mates!😊👍🏻😷
I recently purchased the SR2's. The are a nice , warm leaning dynamic open back that have moderate space / ambience retrieval. Some will find them great others may say they are boring. But I can't imagine anyone saying they are bad... Also note that the Sr's cumulative spectral decay indicates a resonance peak at 8khz that far exceeds anything seen in the Ananda's ,but you wont hear it...
Thanks so much, Amir, for your honesty and objectivity. I find your science-based approach quite refreshing and reassuring. Looking forward to many more reviews in the future!
I have to admit I don't like how the Ananda sounds out of the box. It sounds muddy and unnatural in the vocals while at the same time a bit piercing in the treble. I played around with EQ, and I tried so many EQ profiles from Oratory, Rtings, DIYAH, yours included, but nothing seemed to fix my gripes with the sound. So I ditched the measurements and tried to correct it by ear. The result was this : Filter 1: Low shelve 100 Hz Gain 2 dB Filter 2: Peaking Fc 500 Hz Gain -4 dB Q 0.5 Filter 2: Peaking Fc 12000 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 1 I was really surprised these filters fixed my Issues with the sound - 500Hz 0.5Q ? really? - especially that I am coming from an HD598 which I really like. Either my hearing is all wrong or the acoustic interaction with the ears is very strong that it might sound completely different to different people.
@@AudioScienceReview I think the negativity towards you does not have a real reason behind it but mostly politic style forced disinformation against you to start a narrative ball rolling because you are shaking up the industry in a way many established people a really scared for their lives for.
@@AudioScienceReview and I think more UA-cam videos are your best answer. Because you can escape the typical audio circles and reach a much wider audience of people who are just researching what’s best to buy.
Having the Ananda for quite a while it is one of my least used headphones. I never knew why, because I usually love the 3D effect, one of the reasons I bought a Smyth Realiser A16. But it seems measuring the Ananda with the Smyth Realiser A16 inEars microphones never worked. Maybe because of the magnets so close to the inEar microphones. I measured my HRTF with the Smith Realiser A16 and the Headphone response with the Sennheiser HD800 in the same session. No problem. Did both twice, no chance to get a useful measurement with the Ananda. Recently trying out some cables (just different types of wire, nothing too fancy) for the Ananda and they seem make a difference. So the cable is also maybe not the best. Thank you Amir for doing this! Highly appreciated.
@@SpaceEncounter A friend of mine created a bunch of alternatives using cables he already had at hand and send them to me for testing. So most of them are instantly better than the stock cable. Give me some more time to listen to all of them again. If I am sure I will let you know.
Great work and review as always. I have heard that sometimes harmonic distortions can create pleasing effects, although this is very subjective and I have not tested this myself. What is your take on this? Could they have done this intentionally? Cheers
Amir, my birthday only few weeks from now but what do I see when I wake up? 2 (two) videos!!! Thank you - I will cancel my birthday present then! ;-) Super nice ;-) Btw I chose Sundara over Ananda, especially that I got one for 250
The resonances and distortion characteristics of thin film planers do not surprise, or, really worry me . Back in 90's I owned full panel electrostatic and large ribbon speakers (Martin Logan CLS & Carver Amazing). While exhibiting a lot of non-linear behaviors they still managed to produce exceedingly excellent sound, with detail and ambiance retrieval no cone dynamic speaker could match. The real limitation of thin film transducers is going to be absolute high SPL's as they simply can't match the dynamic range and slam of a conventional moving cone. It is all a matter of what compromises you want to live with.
I love these reviews! Thanks! Just a suggestion, but what about distortion at lower levels, say 85 or 75 dB? I don't usually listen to my music super loud in order to protect my ears and anything over 100 dB is definitely louder than I would probably go. Thank you!
That’s with speakers. We heard loudness different with headphones, Bass can easily reach >100dB and not sound too loud. Also, you are talking RMS (average), not peak. THX standard for instance calls for 105dB peaks from speakers and 115dB from subwoofers.
Nah, they'd measure fine. If there's one thing Hifiman does well its their end game planar headphones (1000 series and susvara). Crinacle measures them up there with the Utopias only to be outclassed by the HE-1: crinacle.com/rankings/headphones/ Maybe the susvara would be even up there with the HE-1
What headphones do you recommend in the $700 price range? It seems like the Elex is better than the Ananda but the driver issues scare me. Do I have to save up to $1k to get a decent upgrade from the $300 range?
@@YoYo-uh3xj i appreciate the work done by amir, but I'm a tube amp, r2r enjoy my music as much as possible kind of listener. Ananda sound great. I have owned many pairs of headphones and ananda are a good deal
So many dislikes... listen up angry Ananda owners, if you enjoy your HP, how does it matter if objective measurements based on a particular target disagrees with your taste? It’s all subjective, grow up and enjoy your hobby
Abyss Phi TC is a abomination in many ways. This Hifiman looks like acceptable for the rare - and seductive - holographic effect, and today the price is dropped almost half. I will wait Amir's measurement of Edition XS to decide witch one I buy (I wish one Senn HD800 series, but in my country costs at last 5 times more then the Sundara).
Gosh, I'm glad I didn't read Amir's review before buying the Hifiman Ananda Stealth edition. I might have been prejudiced against these headphones and that would have been a huge shame. I checked a few pairs in my favourite shop, including the Hifiman XS, before deciding on specific plenary headphones in the $600-1000 range. However, nothing impressed me until I put the Ananda on. In this case, the statement that it is not the frequency measurements that play but the headphones is fully confirmed. In the case of the Ananda, their neutrality, spaciousness and mellow tonality overshadowed the minor shortcomings that came out in Amir’s tests, which I respect. While I agree with Amir that it is not the cables that are expected to play, it is not the technical measurements that we expect to hear. All in all, I don't regret my purchase and anyone who hasn't listened to the Ananda should check for themselves if Ananda suit them or not. I truly recommend to take this opportunity 😊
A lot of people mad about the review. It is just one persons opinion and measurements. You can obviously find other reviewers to also hear their opinions and come to your own conclusions. Think for yourself and don’t worry if 1 person didn’t like the headphone you do.
If you believe there are exact measurements for headphones, that is when you have taken a detour from headphone research. See these references I provided in the thread: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hifiman-ananda-review-headphone.22281/post-740220 You have to learn to interpret measurements and know how others measure headphones. Without it, you will forever be lost when it comes to objective data on headphones.
@@AudioScienceReview ok so yes you measured them with a bad seal which some users may experience but you are ignoring the fact that others can have a good seal. Now measure them properly sealed and compare the results that would be a cool experiment. I don't even like these headphones but you are reviewing them based on worse case scenario. That's not fair to Hifiman and sets a bad precedent that you can just poorly measure a headphone, claim its within tolerance and then not recommend it due to your own measurements.
@@AudioScienceReview tbh i can't tell either if he's just fucking around trolling, or if he legit thinks it's possible to measure sound that accurately
@@AudioScienceReview the fact that you’d never even measured headphones this size tells me you’re inexperienced - serious headphone reviewers have measured several headphone models shaped like this for years
His measurements look a lot like the ones I've seen. His has more squiggles but the curve is essentially the same. I trust Amir's measurements and especially his EQs. www.dropbox.com/s/t4n36v0rxtpd5yv/Hifiman%20Ananda%20%28RME%20ADI-2%29.pdf?dl=0 That's the same headphones, Harman and same DAC.
@@AudioScienceReview Greeting Sir!! Ready for duty!! XD Well, people need to understand when some frequencies are boosted in a headphone the other frequencies suffer they drop out of focus. Maybe its okay for a certain genre. If Ananda has an eq, phase and distortion problem that's too bad. 1000 dollars should give you a perfect headphone for every genre. Now i wonder if minimum phase and linear phase setting on your dac might have something to help with the headphone a bit?
People get so mad when the truth hits them. They are trying to justify their 700 dollar purchase. ASR takes no prisoners. All headphones get measured the same regardless of price. Many youtube reviewers are not even educated or qualified to break down equipment inside and out in a technical way. We all have hearing bias. A true audiophile knows that when you use the right equipment for testing, the measurements don't lie. A audiophile headphone should always play as close as possible to the source material.
Measurements don't lie, but if he/she doesn't know what they are doing or should be measuring, then the measured data is useless. ASR is a classic example of this. Fools who have never listened to high end gear want to believe that their 70 dollar headphone is the best in the world, ASR just happens to align with their belief so they defends it to no end. Topping A50S is "highly recommended" by ASR, but by far the worst headphone amplifier I have ever heard.
@@Hmkls You exactly proved my point! It's the worst headphone amplifier YOU have ever heard. If you read what I said. Everyone has hearing bias. Just because you spent 2000 dollars on a headphone does not make it better than all the other headphones below that price tag. High end is subjective. We can go all the way up to $50,000 dollar headphones. Since you are a sound engineer and have a testing rig for audio frequencies. You have yet to tell me how Amir is wrong!
@@YoYo-uh3xj Nope, you completely missed my point. You claim that Amir should be considered "the authority" in audio equipment measurement, therefore you need to be able to back up that claim of why - objectively - he knows about audio better than everyone else. You should also read properly. I never said that expensive audio equipment sounds better than everything in price points below it, that's just you putting words in my mouth.
Lol “the truth” hits them? To audiophiles the only truth is what they “listen.” I don’t even care how my headphones measure because I have an ability to judge the quality and preference of the sound all by myself, unlike those who can’t until someone gives them “the answer” with some numbers and graph that they don’t even understand.
It’s hilarious to me that he’d never before even measured headphones this size - this is his first! - and people take this measurement seriously like he knows what he’s doing. 🤷🏽♂️
@@davidlong1786 I don’t measure headphones or claim to, sir. But this man admits this is the first time he has ever measured a headphone with this cup size - so yeah, he’s obviously inexperienced measuring headphones, so I don’t trust him the same way I do others who have measured many more headphones than him, and measured many headphones with large cups like these. Clearly, he’s new to the game of measuring headphones and isn’t in the same league as more seasoned headphone reviewers.
@@ar_xiv how does he know the bad seal only affected one side? By visual inspection only or...? If his measurements are not consistent with what more seasoned headphone reviewers produce - who aren’t new to measuring headphones and have clearly far more experience measuring headphones and particularly ones with ear cups like this - then it would be irrational for me to think his measurements, as an outlier, are more correct than others’.
Amir, I don't understand why you keep attacking good companies like Hifiman! They are pioneers of planar headphones and release fantastic products for our enjoyment. I can't believe you would stoop this low. 😤 If you want reference sounding equipment just get studio monitors. Not everyone wants a flat neutral sound. I know many happy Ananda owners, including myself.🥰 You've ruined the resale of these headphones aswell.. ☠️ SHAME ON YOU! 😡😡😡 There's a global pandemic going on, and you're adding fuel to the 🔥 by harming Hifiman. What if Dr Fang Bian quits hifi, and applies his talents elsewhere? He's a chemical engineer!😬
They are NOT a GOOD company. Quality control is junk. They sell headphones in a year or 2 slash them in half. Not worth prices when it first comes out.
Very curious about Edition XS. Maybe they saw your Ananda review and address some of these issues. You should review it Amir!
I was going to the audio shop with the idea of getting the much more expensive Focal Clear MG that I thought sounded drab compared to the Ananda's. The Ananda's gave me chills when I listened to music, which is something I can say not many headphones do for me. I'm glad I bought the Ananda's based on what my ears hear and not based on science because to my ears these sure as hell sound good. When it comes to headphones and music gear, best advice is trust what you hear. Music is just so subjective and a matter of preferences in the end. Price means nothing.
Trust what you hear ?
So all these golden ears people hearing differences between cables and DAC are reliable to you?
Never trust your ears fully, or confirmation bias will get to you. (and you wallet)
its not always about measurments so your comments about it being a floored headphone is meaningless
the headphone ananda sounds amazing , measurements mean nothing most of the time .
not sure what necessitates the high volume tests for THD, especially at unsafe hearing levels. what would these number be indicative of?
EQ headroom.
@@DEALUX who eqs plus or minus maximum safe listening level by 24 or more db
Beyond the good answers given, we need to determine if distortion is rising linearity or non-linearity. If for example I add 10 dB to the level, does distortion go up 10 dB or 20? And in what region. With three data points (levels), you can extrapolate and figure out for example whether your EQ is producing more distortion than it should. It also separates superb headphones from the rest in their ability to accept these levels and produce little distortion.
@@AudioScienceReview thanks for the comment! given your statement, doesn't this mean headphone construction needs to be as small as possible compared to driver area, as well as little to no acoustic impedance in front or behind the driver? given some of the tests it doesn't seem like headphones that match that description seem to measure well, inversely some examples of the opposite measure well.
While I do agree that a worst case "bad seal" scenario must be taken into account, I do believe that the best case "full seal" scenario should also be considered in an analysis. I appreciate that you don't mindlessly default to the best case scenario for analysis, as so many do, but maybe look into including both in your reviews. We don't know which variant is more common, that is to say, we don't know whether it's more common for people to get good or bad seal. So it's only fair to look at both perspectives.
I hear you. As I noted in the written review, I did attempt to improve the seal but it was not possible with the sample I had. Fortunately the deviation was small between 20 and 30 Hz so I don't think it is material to the analysis of the headphone otherwise.
Please could you clarify more in details why you would measure THD at crazy 114 dB? and also why commenting on the 114dB curve and not the more typical 100dB? An SPL of 100dB is really the absolute maximum, everybody that cares about their ears should not listen at these levels. So if I would design a headphone I wouldn't go crazy to minimise the distortion at 114dB, people would never listen to that. It's like designing a car that can go at 300km/h where the speed limit everywhere is 90km/h. The THD at 100dB seems fairly reasonable and in line with many great open planar headphones. I am not a fan of the Ananda, I never listened to them, but your analysis and discussion in particular about the THD seems a very peculiar and unfair way to judge headphones. I am curious, please could you clarify?
It is because he has bad hearing. So his subjective reviews need to be discarded. Additionally if you read his “reviews” with measurements he will make numerous references to his highly flawed measuring methodology. Not only on headphones ( not making sure headphones are sealed properly is lazy and many others have measured these on the same device with great results).
Amir, do you think the distortion helps create the spatiality? I like the Ananda but I'm happier to see objective research / measurements go into understanding how and why there is an affect or a cause.
edit- and i struggle to get a good seal as well. When i do, my lower jaw hurts after some time.
I don't think distortion helps. But the messiness in Group Delay may. That indicates multiple sources of reflections and that may create some spatial effects.
@@AudioScienceReview Thank you
Perhaps this could be re-done with the correct pads. The measurements dont really match other measurements available.
He did used the correct pads.
@@francoisrochette3808 i mean fresh pads, sorry
Thats crazy how these could measure the absolute worst, yet I still enjoy them more than so many other headphones.
Credit to how easy it is to please audiophiles. :)
@@AudioScienceReview correct. Best part is I only spent 500 on my pair.
@@Seiserism lol only? The sound's like a waste to me. I can had a couple of hundred and get the near end game king of headphones.
@@YoYo-uh3xj what headphones were those?
@@YoYo-uh3xj you clearly haven’t heard very many headphones.
Coming from the forum thanks for doing this. Just ordered the smsl sp200 hope this good amp for the heatset. was looking at the ifi zen dac v2 hope i picked right looking for some bass.
I own the Anandas and there's no way that they have "distortion" at 'sane' listening levels. Most of your "distortion" tests were well beyond the volume level of what most people will ever listen to them. Even if there's musical peaks that reach 114dB (the max level you tested, ie: with the worst distortion) they're mostly instantaneous and won't be noticed as "distortions" at all. The Ananda is a fine set of HPs that don't even really need EQing if one has the right chain - ie: discrete Class A or AB instead of IC-based amps that may/will accentuate the Ananda's slight brightness, pushing it over the top into the too bright territory. Happy listening folks.....
Hello, what would you suggest for mixing and mastering?
I wonder if they fixed most of the problems with the Stealth Edition, it sounded great when I listened to it, actually better than the Arya SE in my opinion.
6:20 if you're listening at 94db, you need to get your ears checked...
Not really. You are likely listening to that level and higher without knowing it. I will do a video on this as there is such strong misconception about that. For now, please see this forum post: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/abyss-diana-v2-review-headphone.19291/post-638365
@@AudioScienceReview If I read correctly, you argue that 20Hz at 114 dB is realistic, because the A-weighting reduces 114 to 74 dB and that 74 dB(A) is a safe listening volume according to OSHA.
My issue with this argument is that if you were to listen to that Chris Jones track with 30 Hz at 114 dB(Z) the content at 3 kHz would be at 84 dB(A). At 1kHz where the A-weighting is the same it even amounts to 94dB(A) which is *clearly* outside of the green zone.
When people listen to music they tend to adjust volume based on where it hurts first. This would be between 3 and 4 kHz and not at 30 Hz.
Therefore I would argue that 114 dB is outside the realm of "realistic". IMO you can't recommend $2000 speakers that have 12% THD at 30 Hz at 80dB, but start having reservations when a headphone struggles to produce volume that is subjectively TEN TIMES louder.
All you accomplish with the 114-test is wreck headphones. The 990 you tested for example is specd to blow up at 100mW. With 250 Ohm impedance and 96dB/mW sensitivity this means you need 80mW to get 115 dB. Couple dB higher and you quickly pass the .1W threshhold.
Keep in mind that the 990 has an underhung motor design. This means max power input is not limited by excursion but instead by the voicecoil burning which makes this type more rugged than most headphones on the market that use overhung motors.
@@GrumpiestKittenNo one is advocating that you listen at 114 dBSPL. That level is used to show whether distortion rise is linear or non-linear. It is the third point in the measurement series (94, 104 and 114) so that you can see the trend. It is also there in case you boost the lows a lot. There, your hearing sensitivity is very low so you will not sense much loudness.
What headphone stand is that?
Can't wait to see you're findings on the 4xx, to me is a brilliant hp especially considering the requested price tag.
only because of price tag and I would consider ad700x with that range of money
I really like these for gaming. The enormous soundstage works well with spatial audio.
hey Amir, would you measure Hifiman Sundara since it seems a much popular one from Hifiman ?
just got my Ananda in on Friday. I like em so far.
I didn't, I returned it.
@@GBR9794 i also returned the turd
@@mg00 i returned it because of the lack of dynamics and voltage swing with high impedance headphones.
Is all that mesurement and technicalities noticeable when you listening music?
👀 All that is subjetive when you listening with your own ears...since is not an exact science
so whats the best planar 1k or under? dont say audeze i like clear treble.
Amir,
I liked the way you presented this technical review, nice work. I'm starting to see the value in what you do.
Thanks Eric. It is a new way to look at performance of headphones so folks resist it at first.
Thanks, I was about to buy these headphones, thank you.
Amir, was the air gap present for all the tests you ran? I'm sure you're aware already as you mention getting feedback several times, but these headphones, and in fact many Hifiman headphones will measure with elevated bass and severe drop off and other anomalies throughout if you measure them without a proper seal. Measuring headphones and in ears without proper seal is the wrong way to go about it in my opinion. Headphones are designed and tuned with seal in mind and users strive to have a good seal. You could do both, that would be okay. Show with and without a seal and what effect it brings. As this review is right now I think it can be misleading for people unaware of these effects. I hope to see better quality reviews in the future as I think your reviews are very well trusted and respected and I wish they will continue to be that way. No offense taken i hope, I love the work you do.
For you potential owners out there I'd urge you to be careful about the bass boosts proposed here as it is not needed at all in most cases. If you have a proper seal you could end up boosting them to distortion thinking you have roll off when in fact you already have full sub bass extension. Be careful with it at least. Be very careful if you have for example iFi's xBass/TrueBass or something similar. Those can boost sub bass anywhere from 6-10dB @ 20 Hz. I've had Hifimans many times and I'm all too familiar with these behaviours.
Yes, this was clearly stated in my review both in the video and written version. And in multiple places including the frequency response graph. The gap persisted due to very large cups and inability for it to seal on its own. The impact was only in 20 to 30 Hz so for sure it was not a significant factor in the review.
@@AudioScienceReview Thank you. I saw your video before I saw anything else. But, how can you be sure the gap did not influence the other measurements? Given the large impact it had on the drivers' frequency response. If the driver became uncontrolled and/or unbalanced, one would think this might have lead to more distortion or other undesirable effects(?), Driver instability causing several dB of bass boost and roll off must have had other effects as well? Even if kind of minor, how minor? How can we be sure it only affected the bass response? That is my point, and worry.
This headphone has very big earcups and it doesn't have swivel so it has inconsistent and messed up fit. Even for real life usage you will face these results. It's representative.
You should review the LCD-X. And perhaps try to EQ them because of their weird stock FR.
Audeze has mastered their drivers compared to Hifiman. Audeze headphones have some of the lowest distortion and group delay measurements out there. But, yes, the stock tonality is a bit wonky as are all the Audeze's. With a couple EQ filters you can fix it right up though.
@@luckyupyours Yes, but so are many headphones regarding stock FR. After EQ'ing their bass/treble/mids quanitities to a similar level, I can truly value each set for their abilities in soundstage, resolution, imaging, timbre, control etc. Without it I just focus on how one sounds too bright or too dark...
I still wish to try Hifiman Arya or He1000v2 despite owning the LCD-X.
@@jim8643 If you don't like bright headphones the Arya might disappoint you. The soundstage might make up for it though. I haven't heard any headphone that soundstages like the Arya
@@luckyupyours That soundstage is what sounds intriguing. I heard the bass is deep & has an interesting subwoofer effect (Joshua Valour described it as omnipresent when he was comparing it with the LCD-X).
@@jim8643 The bass does have an interesting presence which depends on the music. If you listen to more instrumental music the Arya would be a better choice than the X. When comparing the two in stock form, they almost seem to make up for each other's weaknesses (if that makes sense). The Arya lacks punchy bass which the X makes up for and the X lacks accurate soundstage depth which the Arya has. Arya is also much more comfortable without messing around which could be a big deal. Basically, if you listen to EDM or hip hop, the X is a better headphone, if not, go for Arya.
Thanks,
you should do more video reviews like this (if you have the time of course).
I'm still using your 3 Bands Equalization suggestion for the Sundaras as my standard tuning. Sometimes additionally tweaking here and there.
Something I don’t get and please note i am new to all this literally got in to the hobby this year in june …. You said It measures really badly and has a lot of distortion yet it isn’t bad just not your favorite sound, then you EQd your preference but wouldn’t the diaphragm still act the same, and second given the weirdness of it shouldn’t it just sound bad straight off and no one would rave about it at all? I actually have this headphone, and my lcd 2c and HD660s to me sounds technically amazing (by my subjective impression) but I never turned to the ANANDA and ever thought that sounds wrong. i.e. hd650 vs 660s comparing the 2 makes me think something is wrong with the HD650 (veiled) Coz my take away from this video is that objective measurements therefore doesn’t matter and i wasted me time watching this hehehe I’m really just confuse
Disregard this. Let your ears be the judge. I own both the Ananda and the Arya Stealth - and both are excellent HPs. That "distortion" was at a volume level that most listeners will never listen at (114dB!!!) - therefore making it immaterial. Dynamic driver HPs would have much more distortion than planars at that level (and much lower volume levels), plus, they're not even able to reproduce solid subbass like most planars - you'd be missing whole octaves of music, LOL......
I would really love to see Hifiman Sundara reviewed from since they've got really popular lately given their price cut from 500 to 350. Never eared anyone talk bad about them.
I have it and the review will very soon!
@@AudioScienceReview Wow! Great! I can't wait! I bought them one week ago, hope it will turn out was a good purchase!
Thanks for your work!
This is off the brand subject. What about the Sennheiser HD700, HD800S and HD820. Would like to see a review on these. I didn’t ask about the HE 1 as it is pretty much unobtanium unless you have unlimited funds or a very friendly dealer! Stay safe mates!😊👍🏻😷
Great video as usual!Are tone winner products in the future?
Can you try to get an ibasso sr2 for review, would love to hear your thoughts and tests.
I recently purchased the SR2's. The are a nice , warm leaning dynamic open back that have moderate space / ambience retrieval. Some will find them great others may say they are boring. But I can't imagine anyone saying they are bad... Also note that the Sr's cumulative spectral decay indicates a resonance peak at 8khz that far exceeds anything seen in the Ananda's ,but you wont hear it...
Thanks so much, Amir, for your honesty and objectivity. I find your science-based approach quite refreshing and reassuring. Looking forward to many more reviews in the future!
I have to admit I don't like how the Ananda sounds out of the box. It sounds muddy and unnatural in the vocals while at the same time a bit piercing in the treble.
I played around with EQ, and I tried so many EQ profiles from Oratory, Rtings, DIYAH, yours included, but nothing seemed to fix my gripes with the sound.
So I ditched the measurements and tried to correct it by ear. The result was this :
Filter 1: Low shelve 100 Hz Gain 2 dB
Filter 2: Peaking Fc 500 Hz Gain -4 dB Q 0.5
Filter 2: Peaking Fc 12000 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 1
I was really surprised these filters fixed my Issues with the sound - 500Hz 0.5Q ? really? - especially that I am coming from an HD598 which I really like. Either my hearing is all wrong or the acoustic interaction with the ears is very strong that it might sound completely different to different people.
I Love your review videos. very much needed.
Ah, thank you so much. There has been a lot of negativity around this review so it is nice to hear comments otherwise.
@@AudioScienceReview I think the negativity towards you does not have a real reason behind it but mostly politic style forced disinformation against you to start a narrative ball rolling because you are shaking up the industry in a way many established people a really scared for their lives for.
@@AudioScienceReview and I think more UA-cam videos are your best answer. Because you can escape the typical audio circles and reach a much wider audience of people who are just researching what’s best to buy.
And please do more snake oil debunking videos. Everybody loves those! /except dishonest people
Having the Ananda for quite a while it is one of my least used headphones. I never knew why, because I usually love the 3D effect, one of the reasons I bought a Smyth Realiser A16. But it seems measuring the Ananda with the Smyth Realiser A16 inEars microphones never worked. Maybe because of the magnets so close to the inEar microphones. I measured my HRTF with the Smith Realiser A16 and the Headphone response with the Sennheiser HD800 in the same session. No problem. Did both twice, no chance to get a useful measurement with the Ananda.
Recently trying out some cables (just different types of wire, nothing too fancy) for the Ananda and they seem make a difference. So the cable is also maybe not the best.
Thank you Amir for doing this! Highly appreciated.
Which cable is it?
@@SpaceEncounter A friend of mine created a bunch of alternatives using cables he already had at hand and send them to me for testing. So most of them are instantly better than the stock cable. Give me some more time to listen to all of them again. If I am sure I will let you know.
tin-horn ear amir with another 115db headphone review...
Great work and review as always. I have heard that sometimes harmonic distortions can create pleasing effects, although this is very subjective and I have not tested this myself. What is your take on this? Could they have done this intentionally? Cheers
Amir, my birthday only few weeks from now but what do I see when I wake up? 2 (two) videos!!! Thank you - I will cancel my birthday present then! ;-) Super nice ;-)
Btw I chose Sundara over Ananda, especially that I got one for 250
Ananda are fantastic my man.
Amir measures metal and objectively recommends classical music.
I need to use that line! :)
@@AudioScienceReview I won't object ;)
v objective, nice. maybe getting the quad ERA-1, what thoughts (if any) do y'all have about that headphone?
I haven't tested it so no thought right now.
The resonances and distortion characteristics of thin film planers do not surprise, or, really worry me . Back in 90's I owned full panel electrostatic and large ribbon speakers (Martin Logan CLS & Carver Amazing). While exhibiting a lot of non-linear behaviors they still managed to produce exceedingly excellent sound, with detail and ambiance retrieval no cone dynamic speaker could match. The real limitation of thin film transducers is going to be absolute high SPL's as they simply can't match the dynamic range and slam of a conventional moving cone. It is all a matter of what compromises you want to live with.
I love these reviews! Thanks! Just a suggestion, but what about distortion at lower levels, say 85 or 75 dB? I don't usually listen to my music super loud in order to protect my ears and anything over 100 dB is definitely louder than I would probably go. Thank you!
That’s with speakers. We heard loudness different with headphones, Bass can easily reach >100dB and not sound too loud.
Also, you are talking RMS (average), not peak. THX standard for instance calls for 105dB peaks from speakers and 115dB from subwoofers.
Someone please get Amir a Susvara. Dr Fang Bian will have a heart attack. 😂😂
Nah, they'd measure fine. If there's one thing Hifiman does well its their end game planar headphones (1000 series and susvara). Crinacle measures them up there with the Utopias only to be outclassed by the HE-1: crinacle.com/rankings/headphones/
Maybe the susvara would be even up there with the HE-1
Someone has. :) I will test it very soon given the hundred requests I have gotten for it! :)
@@AudioScienceReview Awesome! Can't wait!
@@AudioScienceReview that’s great and the sundara
@@AudioScienceReview 😊🤤👍can't wait to see it and can't wait to see Resolve get banned and 35 pages of comments
Thanks Amir! These are too expensive given the drawbacks (albeit I like magic). Maybe it needs better cables?! 😁
Hehe. :)
What headphones do you recommend in the $700 price range? It seems like the Elex is better than the Ananda but the driver issues scare me. Do I have to save up to $1k to get a decent upgrade from the $300 range?
Ananda is fantastic... our ears are much more advanced listening machines than microphones
Please do not base your purchasing decisions on a microphone and some graphs. This has nothing to do with your ears and psychoacoustics/neurology.
@@pascaljean2333 What are you talking about!? Machines can pickup harmonic distortion which human being can't even hear.
@@chamade166 it has everything to do with it. If that is the case. No one would fine tone in a studio by looking at graphs and measurements.
@@YoYo-uh3xj i appreciate the work done by amir, but I'm a tube amp, r2r enjoy my music as much as possible kind of listener. Ananda sound great. I have owned many pairs of headphones and ananda are a good deal
We write Ohm, with a capital O. In honour of Mr Ohm, who invented resistance 🙂
Like your video's btw.
Oh shit ! Before him everything was supraconducting
I don't think he invented resistance lol, resistance was always there we just didn't know it yet or have a name for it.
So many dislikes... listen up angry Ananda owners, if you enjoy your HP, how does it matter if objective measurements based on a particular target disagrees with your taste? It’s all subjective, grow up and enjoy your hobby
You just saved my pocket from a bad investment
Abyss Phi TC is a abomination in many ways. This Hifiman looks like acceptable for the rare - and seductive - holographic effect, and today the price is dropped almost half. I will wait Amir's measurement of Edition XS to decide witch one I buy (I wish one Senn HD800 series, but in my country costs at last 5 times more then the Sundara).
The pads are clearly deformed but here are my measurements. 🙄
Nicely you cut what he said after so he look incompetent.
*grabs popcorn*
i hope with butter
Gosh, I'm glad I didn't read Amir's review before buying the Hifiman Ananda Stealth edition. I might have been prejudiced against these headphones and that would have been a huge shame. I checked a few pairs in my favourite shop, including the Hifiman XS, before deciding on specific plenary headphones in the $600-1000 range. However, nothing impressed me until I put the Ananda on. In this case, the statement that it is not the frequency measurements that play but the headphones is fully confirmed. In the case of the Ananda, their neutrality, spaciousness and mellow tonality overshadowed the minor shortcomings that came out in Amir’s tests, which I respect. While I agree with Amir that it is not the cables that are expected to play, it is not the technical measurements that we expect to hear. All in all, I don't regret my purchase and anyone who hasn't listened to the Ananda should check for themselves if Ananda suit them or not. I truly recommend to take this opportunity 😊
First bad review I’ve seen on these headphones
A lot of people mad about the review. It is just one persons opinion and measurements. You can obviously find other reviewers to also hear their opinions and come to your own conclusions. Think for yourself and don’t worry if 1 person didn’t like the headphone you do.
just get plastic surgery so it seals properly 4Head
jajajajajajajjajajajaja
👀👀
ingleeeee
Hola mis amores
Saludos Martín, viendo este review seguirán siendo recomendables los Ananda o tendrán problemas en el driver cómo propone Amir?
Sounds like you are in tears.
Bruv you clearly measured the headphones wrong as declared by other measurement nerds. Please remeasure them. This isn't science anymore.
If you believe there are exact measurements for headphones, that is when you have taken a detour from headphone research. See these references I provided in the thread: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hifiman-ananda-review-headphone.22281/post-740220
You have to learn to interpret measurements and know how others measure headphones. Without it, you will forever be lost when it comes to objective data on headphones.
@@AudioScienceReview ok so yes you measured them with a bad seal which some users may experience but you are ignoring the fact that others can have a good seal. Now measure them properly sealed and compare the results that would be a cool experiment. I don't even like these headphones but you are reviewing them based on worse case scenario. That's not fair to Hifiman and sets a bad precedent that you can just poorly measure a headphone, claim its within tolerance and then not recommend it due to your own measurements.
@@AudioScienceReview tbh i can't tell either if he's just fucking around trolling, or if he legit thinks it's possible to measure sound that accurately
@@AudioScienceReview the fact that you’d never even measured headphones this size tells me you’re inexperienced - serious headphone reviewers have measured several headphone models shaped like this for years
His measurements look a lot like the ones I've seen. His has more squiggles but the curve is essentially the same. I trust Amir's measurements and especially his EQs.
www.dropbox.com/s/t4n36v0rxtpd5yv/Hifiman%20Ananda%20%28RME%20ADI-2%29.pdf?dl=0
That's the same headphones, Harman and same DAC.
Second Comment lets go!! =D
I hereby deputize you two to defend me from all the people who are about to descend on me saying I am wrong about the Ananda!!!
@@AudioScienceReview Greeting Sir!! Ready for duty!! XD Well, people need to understand when some frequencies are boosted in a headphone the other frequencies suffer they drop out of focus. Maybe its okay for a certain genre. If Ananda has an eq, phase and distortion problem that's too bad. 1000 dollars should give you a perfect headphone for every genre. Now i wonder if minimum phase and linear phase setting on your dac might have something to help with the headphone a bit?
holi
People get so mad when the truth hits them. They are trying to justify their 700 dollar purchase. ASR takes no prisoners. All headphones get measured the same regardless of price. Many youtube reviewers are not even educated or qualified to break down equipment inside and out in a technical way. We all have hearing bias. A true audiophile knows that when you use the right equipment for testing, the measurements don't lie. A audiophile headphone should always play as close as possible to the source material.
Measurements don't lie, but if he/she doesn't know what they are doing or should be measuring, then the measured data is useless. ASR is a classic example of this. Fools who have never listened to high end gear want to believe that their 70 dollar headphone is the best in the world, ASR just happens to align with their belief so they defends it to no end. Topping A50S is "highly recommended" by ASR, but by far the worst headphone amplifier I have ever heard.
@@Hmkls You exactly proved my point! It's the worst headphone amplifier YOU have ever heard. If you read what I said. Everyone has hearing bias. Just because you spent 2000 dollars on a headphone does not make it better than all the other headphones below that price tag. High end is subjective. We can go all the way up to $50,000 dollar headphones. Since you are a sound engineer and have a testing rig for audio frequencies. You have yet to tell me how Amir is wrong!
@@YoYo-uh3xj Nope, you completely missed my point. You claim that Amir should be considered "the authority" in audio equipment measurement, therefore you need to be able to back up that claim of why - objectively - he knows about audio better than everyone else. You should also read properly. I never said that expensive audio equipment sounds better than everything in price points below it, that's just you putting words in my mouth.
Lol “the truth” hits them? To audiophiles the only truth is what they “listen.” I don’t even care how my headphones measure because I have an ability to judge the quality and preference of the sound all by myself, unlike those who can’t until someone gives them “the answer” with some numbers and graph that they don’t even understand.
It’s hilarious to me that he’d never before even measured headphones this size - this is his first! - and people take this measurement seriously like he knows what he’s doing. 🤷🏽♂️
He does know what he is doing unlike yourself.
@@davidlong1786 I don’t measure headphones or claim to, sir. But this man admits this is the first time he has ever measured a headphone with this cup size - so yeah, he’s obviously inexperienced measuring headphones, so I don’t trust him the same way I do others who have measured many more headphones than him, and measured many headphones with large cups like these.
Clearly, he’s new to the game of measuring headphones and isn’t in the same league as more seasoned headphone reviewers.
he said the bad seal was only on one side, but the channels matched well, indicating the bad seal didn't affect the measurement much.
@@ar_xiv how does he know the bad seal only affected one side? By visual inspection only or...? If his measurements are not consistent with what more seasoned headphone reviewers produce - who aren’t new to measuring headphones and have clearly far more experience measuring headphones and particularly ones with ear cups like this - then it would be irrational for me to think his measurements, as an outlier, are more correct than others’.
@@trellusg So? he admitted as such and described the process. I think it still represents what he heard,
Amir, I don't understand why you keep attacking good companies like Hifiman! They are pioneers of planar headphones and release fantastic products for our enjoyment. I can't believe you would stoop this low. 😤
If you want reference sounding equipment just get studio monitors. Not everyone wants a flat neutral sound. I know many happy Ananda owners, including myself.🥰
You've ruined the resale of these headphones aswell.. ☠️
SHAME ON YOU! 😡😡😡 There's a global pandemic going on, and you're adding fuel to the 🔥 by harming Hifiman.
What if Dr Fang Bian quits hifi, and applies his talents elsewhere? He's a chemical engineer!😬
if you dont care about the things amir measures then dont watch his reviews
They are NOT a GOOD company. Quality control is junk. They sell headphones in a year or 2 slash them in half. Not worth prices when it first comes out.
@@YoYo-uh3xj they have really changed, and their customer service is great
It’s a company it’s their job to fix their image and products not yours.
@@MrWizardjr9 It's not up to you to tell others what they should or should not do