Will Super Long Oars Achieve Super Speedy Rowing?
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Welcome to another episode of Trailmakers! Today I want to try to improve upon my previous rowing vehicle to see how much faster longer oars can propel my boat!
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About Trailmakers:
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"Unrealistically"... big ships with many oars were powered by *rows* of slaves at each oar, the oars were longer than some trees.
how were the oars even made
@@beaclaster by the indomitable human spirit
@@beaclasteror they just use bigger trees
@@imnotabearr ...kids today... LMAO
technically even rowboat oars are longer then some trees.
When you hopped into the air, you reminded me of a movie I watched 😂. I won't spoil anything.
But its name is " Battleship "
I don’t care if drifting a boat it unrealistic it’s cool
What if you made almost like a waterwheel system with the oars as propulsion? would be cool if that worked
i think the reason it isn’t working as well is because of the backward motion pushing you back but if you had a waterwheel design it would be constant forward motion
Alternate the oars rowing to smooth the sine wave of your velocity. Your lowest speed at the beginning of the vid was 52 kph and at peak was 80kph. From lowest speed to peak is 28kph. The RMS of that would be 19.79kph. Adding that to the 52kph, your speed is effectively 71.79kph.
You were pretty close to an accidental ornithopter a few times there
His brain doing science is like my PC running satisfactory on full graphics.
Speaking of Satisfactory, I wish he would bring his series back.
@@Nar3ik25 That'd be great
@@Nar3ik25maybe when 1.0 comes out, might even inspire axolot to release Scrap Mechanic 1.0 (chapter 2).
Slow?
Staisfactory on full graphics is like putting gasoline in yojr computer
1. popping out of the water is caused due the ores going too deep into the water and pushing more downwards instead of back. (reduce the angle of them going into the water)
2. the jitteriness/ shakiness of the boat is due to combined weight of the ores being to high compared to the weight of the boat boat. (have 3 different cycles of timings for the ores rotations)
3. speed is proportional to the length of the ores up until it surpasses the length of the boat. (swap out the keel of the boat for just making it longer)( a keel is designed to to prevent barrel rolling)
1: he did, 2: he cant, the timing was already causing colliding of the oars, 3: there is a complexity limit that was causing him to make compromises, that being one of them
1. he didn't do it enough
2. yes he can there's plenty of room
3. most of the complexity comes from having too many ores. which he reduced and has plenty of complexity left
@@iceboundglaceon No he couldn't reduce the angle of the ore anymore, it was by the end at the minimum the game allowed
@@GummieI You can also get the same result by raising the oar attachment point higher, giving him a greater angle range to play with again to dial it in better.
@GummieI he also has complexity limit too so that's not a problem
Today, Scrapman tries a new devolution strat, where each iteration is hilariously ŵorse.
It's pretty satisfying when he makes a video about a comment you made in the previous video. :D
Thanks for reading the comments Scrap!
Nice! Always fun when that happens (not that it’s ever happened to me)
Scrapman you can have sepperate speed on rotating servos (and a lot other things) by just connecting a logic gate to it. They have a OUTPUT SETTING which basically let's you control speed.
This isn't true for all blocks. For example, logic output can only control the _angle_ of a servo or a hinge, _not_ the speed, but logic _will_ control the thrust of an engine based on the logic's output value. In other words, a servo set to 0.50 speed will always rotate at 0.50 speed, regardless of logic signals, but an engine receiving a signal of 0.50 (half throttle) can be pushed to 1.00 (full throttle) with additional logic signals
I really wish the devs _would_ allow all variables to be controlled by logic blocks (ex: servo angle _and_ speed), but that's unfortunately not how they work at the moment
@@Loop_Kat Thank you for clarifying, I was struggling with my own logic-based creations for a bit and wondering why decimals values didn't change the outcome.
@@vladimirputin3426 No problem, glad it helped. It's one of those weird things in Trailmakers where it doesn't seem to make a difference due to blocks having a max output cap of 1.00 or -1.00, but the actual logic signals _do_ all add and subtract from each other, so it's important to always double check your logic to make sure one signal isn't overriding another (unless you want it to)
Another interesting quirk is that, since logic blocks send their desired output value regardless of how big/small their _input_ signal is, you can actually override signals really easily by setting the input signal you want to override to a smaller decimal value. For example, if a logic block is receiving a signal of 0.01 and outputting a value of 1.00, it can be turned negative with an additional signal value of just -0.02 to output a signal of -1.00. This isn't always necessary, but sometimes it's easier to work with these smaller values instead of using a full 1.00 or -1.00 input signal and having to add a whole extra logic block just to negate it
The mechanism between the oars wasn't a perfect four bar mechanism because the pivots were offset, that could have created some of the glitchiness
plus adding suspension (between the oars) migth dump vibrations that break the order of the rows
@@DavidRamirez-lq2co Maybe, but that's suspension on hinges on servos which is an entire cocktail of physics emulation disaster Trailmakers will see to that it breaks for no justifiable reason. The kind of breaking where you get launched at reality breaking speed when you try to use it. I could be done, but there's just a lot going on there that I doubt the game will be happy with.
@@steeljawX i mean it is not happy allready, no harm on trying it out
@ 12:01 I'm reminded of when you guest starred on one of the developer streams and were judging creations. That moment he said that every time you release a video of their game there's always a group of developers huddled around a UA-cam screen watching in horror.
UA-camr-induced dev trauma made here today. 😂😂😂
17:40 omg, somebody must have just handed in their two weeks notice.
17:07 Sometimes when you move or delete parts, steering hinges resets their values for some reason and you have to set them again (0 strength might have reset to 100)
Day 26 of asking scrapman to play space engineer
I'd love to see a series on this, but its a much harder game to get into. Its not like trail makers, where you can just slap parts together.
Yeah but maybe he can play With kan
It "flings" after you added the connections between the oar tips, I believe because the length between them changes as you row.
You basically made a frame, and only allows movement that you get because there is no diagonal bracing, and video game physics.
IDEA: this is weird, but trailmakers physics and mechanics may make it fun - underwater PLANE dogfighting. Love your vids, gentle hugs
Next time try to make is sequential. Like to have a continuous propulsion.
I used to do crew, and one of the main thing is to always be in sync, the weight going forward from the oars and the people moving makes the boat stutter forward, instead of moving consistently and slowly decelerating each stroke
Lake a paddlewheel?
I can't post the link, but there have been multiple studies that prove rowing in sync is the most efficient. This is a regularly discussed topic in the rowing world.
@@justincarter7954I know there are experts discussing really anything in the world but just the thought that everyday someone goes to something like reddit and makes a post like "why this specific way of sequential rowing is better than being in sync" and it gets hundreds of comments for hours is so funny to me lol
@@bbittercoffee haha yeah in this case I think it's because there's a somewhat popular sport based around it, Imagine the craze if a soccer player discovered a better way to kick a football
Love you scrap!
P.s. maybe spaceship evolution?
Day 4 of asking, Dear Scrapman, I have an idea.
The challenge would be to go as fast as possible in either kp/h or time from corner to corner of the grid map with a set power core limit like maybe 50 or 100. I think this would be an interesting challenge due to the need to balance aero, acceleration and the power limit.
I had commented something similar to this on an earlier video, how fast can you go for a limited amount of power cores. Kind of like an efficiency challenge
scrap man has many videos where he goes corner to corner, though idk if he had a power core limit
Actually a good idea! Unlike that “flying tanks” guy lmao
@@RisingWanabe I mean, how many power cores is the Jet Engine? Because he can break the sound barrier with just 3 of those
My two cents:
1. Longer and heavier boat
2. No linking of the oar ends
3. Sequential rowing from back to front
4. Add control of the oar blade's angle of attack
5. Make the boat 5 wide, for more stability and less collisions
6. Heighten or add counter angle servo to get only the oar blades into the water or lessen the entry angle closer to 1°
7. Try adding hydrofoil wings for added stability and reduced contact points on the surface
8. Block out the bad drag on the servos by adding aerodynamic pillars in front with a slim block towards the servos that fills the aerodynamic void
9. The single servos could be too weak for that length of oar, look into other means of rotation
Make It like a centipede and time the rows separately
smart
He'd probably have to use parts without collision to avoid clank
Apparently this is worse, said the rowing experts
Hey, Scrap! Would you do another Q&A? And if so, when would that be?
I already have a question ready... 🤔
Office tour?
may be u should rotate the oars horizontal when they are lifting up from the water and coming back. i think the oars are pushing the air when they are coming back and that's the main reason for sudden speed loss and this unstable motion
That's true, however adding servos to rotate the oars will not just further complicate the logic but also the complexity, great idea, just too expensive
I’m glad there’s a part 2 to this, it was an interesting video.
As a rower I have mixed feelings
Try to make them move alternating withouth colizions, you have 22 of those mechanisms, or more, 11 on left 11 on right, just raise the even pair of mechanism by 2 blocks, 1,3,5,7,9 and 11 at height 0 and 2,4,6,8, 10 +2 blocks
The G-forces aboard would be crazy.
170kph in about 2 seconds!
Shorten the oars then add and extra oar block above and below the oars, that should help.
Day 161 of asking scrapman to test how fast emp is in trailmakers
You should bring it underwater.. kinda like the prehistoric Anomalocaris.. That'd be awesome
Looks like a milipede stick bug
Also pin this comment NOW
Or else 😐
The servos were too fast, inertia of the very long heavy oars was breaking them.
12:05 i cant stop laughing
Scrapman Have you ever heard the definition of Insanity?😅
He actually responded to the comment
Scrapman the whole video: make it longer?
Use the same mechanism to make a flying boat plane?
Is it just me who wants to see a water walker now?
Make a trebuchet with the power couplers
You could say, that's what she said.
It looks like a bug walking on water
What about a rowing race?
A big pirate ship pls ?
They are to deep r2-d2
This is going to sound like an odd suggestion, but a good while ago you made a walker (three actually) in a Scrap Mechanic speed build video. I was thinking that using a mechanism like that might work better than having servos that snap back and forth.. It would have a smoother motion and might be less glitchy due to only needing one powered part for rotation.
I’m only one minute into the video and I’m yelling at the screen. YOU ARE NOT INCREASING THE RPM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why didn't you play with the timing as well?
The first video you only messed with timing and adding oars. This time you're only messing with length and and reducing.
I think you should make a bigger boat. Add buoyancy, increase the angle the oars are in the water, make the boat longer, and stagger the oar timing. Lots of variables to play around with
Multiplayer Monday Idea: Remember that old Scrap Mechanic bacteria mod? What if you used vacuum pumps to keep a consistent source of bacteria, then do a demolition derby type challenge to see who’s vehicle can survive longest.
Also, would love to see multiplayer survival gameplay, or maybe multiplayer crashlander/skyblock. Could lead to some interesting scenarios/challenges.
Your speed was jumping down violently. Have you not realised? The oars. They swing backwards in water propelling you forward, but they then swing in the air, propelling you backwards. You dont need to be propelled backwards, do you? Decrease their number, two is fine really. And then the solution is easy. Ill keep it to myself, you can figure it out.
To change speeds between forwards and backwards, could you use logic gates for the input? If I understand how logic works here, setting the forwards one at 1.0 and the backwards one at -0.5, should make the return trip half speed.
Timing it for continuous application might be a nightmare, though...
17 min ago
I was thinking about using two survo's for forward and backward. Quick forward, slow backwards. (Maybe also for up and down.) And when they are acting on the same time, u will get your wanted slow ramp up of speed.. 🤔😁
I hate stabilizers... Instead of identifying and solving the real issue, you just add a stabilizer to mask the problem which prevents you from reaching an optimal design
Please try to avoid using stabilizers!!!
You could flip the vertical servos 180 degrees and have the wedges face forward for better airflow and just have those servos turn the other direction instead. Power couplings probably would've been a smoother solution to link the oars together for stability too. Any chance you could cover the oars themselves with aerodynamics block? Could also try downward thrusters that trigger when you're not on water.
Faster not always better, you need to sync up with the rithm of the jumping of the buoyancy.
And don't push them too far down, because not just more drag for speed, but also more lift out from the water.
If you raise the long ones higher you can put shorter ones under them and stagger them with different speeds.
The higher ones the longer ones are moving slower, and the bottom shorter ones can move faster, maybe with flat connectors if it can handle the shorter ones.
For the different speeds you could build something like a half ladder so every mechanism has a self of it's own.
So hard to leave a short comment worth reading and still explaining the concept without expecting you mind reading so I gave up on the sort part :D
I don't have the game so I don't know if it works, just based the suggestions on what I saw, but I hope it helps if it still worth another video :)
When "stroking" 😂 automatically, the oars seem to be causing a counterforce when they regain contact with the water, effectively slowing the craft between strokes. With the original craft, if the oars went in a circular or rotary motion, it would probably increase effective thrust. Or you could make each successive set of servos be delayed slightly behind the ones in front, that would also probably increase stability, think sinusoid.
I think you may have missed some of the parallelogram servos, and some of them werent set to 0% strength. Also, you vehicle isnt accumulating speed. That can be fixed, just find out why its not accumulating speed. Its clear to me, but i trust you can do it
16:54 so the keel is in the middle of your boat, which is sitting above the water and not actually doing anything. I'd recommend doing some smaller keels on the back ends of your pontoons (made of hull blocks) using some tailfins, you might even get a nice hydrofoil effect (which isn't unrealistic for competitive rowboating, they come pretty high out of the water)
17:40 a bit of a long shot and I doubt it would've solved anything, but it's worth mentioning that when duplicating or moving items, they sometimes lose the properties you set. In this case, I reckon the hinges between the ends of the oars were reset back to 100% strength. This would prevent them from rotating due to the torque from the hinges keeping the structure square. Just something to keep in mind for future crafts!
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There's a type of boat racing in India called "snake boat racing" . I don't know much about it but I'm sure there's alot of inspiration you could get for this from it.
Pls like the comment so scrapman would see this if you guys also think this is something he should check out.
You're bouncing out of the water because the back and forth motion is too strong, which causes you to jump. You really need to have the oars moving forward much slower, otherwise it simply will not go smooth. Maybe try this in Scrap Mechanic and try to make actual realistic oar motion.
Tipp: If you line up the paddles with 0.01scc deceleration/delay, each paddle is 0.01scc more than the previous one. then you should be able to maintain your speed.
For every Action, there's a Reaction. when the Rudders FLING forward, they also take a lot of energy out of the system, and because they are connected (duh) the "push" the boat backwards.
Hey SrapMan, can you try making a plane where it has two propeller engines in the middle of each wing that can rotate up and down to gelp with pitch and maybe even vtol ability 🤷♂️ like the osprey but .or eplane like and wings on both sides of the egnines...
I feel it would work smoother if you made the oars move back whil they moved down, and forward while they moved up, rather that down, back, up, forward, in sequence. Down and back at the same time, then up and forward at the same time.
I feel like putting the oar strokes out of phase of each other would have solved many issues, although admittedly, it would be difficult with comically large oars like that
I've seen flapping motions with some of my builds or builds on the workshop cause a creation to fly when it wasn't designed to. They work surprisingly smoothly. Maybe we can use this to our advantage to make a fish that swims in the air.
Keep the oar length but find a lighter material for the shafts. As the weight of the oars aproaches or excedes the weight of the hull this "glitchiness" will get worse. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. As the mass of the oars swing forward the hull will be thrown backwards with equal force. So by reducing oar weight or increasing hull weight the recoil will reduce.
So you're trying to stabilize a boat on water which is practically impossible. It's on the surface and it will always be more prone to the effects of minor changes. The best way to stabilize it would also increase your drag force, which is to have an underwater tail. You trying to stabilize on the water without increasing your surface area on the water to create counter points of force means you're going to get flung by the resistance the oars face in the water. Using the water as a kind of stabilizer via underwater tail stabilizer would keep you relatively at the same altitude and direction or at least it'll make it so your boat would want to. Like your keel is fine, but it's just there for weight. Putting an actual kind of aileron and a flap kind of cross tail both near the front and the back to help guide both ends of the boat would both create a lot of drag, but also keep you in the water a lot better.
If you're fighting against the water and you're losing, you might as well use the water itself to help you in your battle.
I’d like to see you explore a different mechanism, I was thinking of a motor on the bottom and a vertical slit on the top. So the paddle is vertical and the oar travels in a circle with the bottom 1/2 to a 1/3rd in the water. Very similar to the stroke of a steam engine.
A bomber vs tanks (or anti-air) could be cool. The bomber would likely have to be fairly slow and not roll or pitch too quickly, so that the tanks stand a chance of hitting it.
Hey Scrap! This video gave me an idea for a new challenge!!!! Try and make a creation that runs on top of the water!! No thrusters just servos and paddling!!
Not finished with the video yet, but I'm curious why no hydrofoil to the keel? It would have provided some forward stability as well as possibly limiting the tendency to erupt out of the water.
Did you think about stacking oars, hight wise? Additionally, when you have the oars bound together, the farther out you have them bound, the greater the tork. So if you bring the binding closer to the boat the less strain they will experience so the less likely they will be to break.
Maker Challenge Make a Boat with Oars and get over 200 speed You can't use any engines at all only Servos and Bouyancy and No glitches.
Day 71 of asking scrapman to battle with flying tanks in trailmakers. Please Scrapman, it's my birthday today so please.
Can you try building one that uses Sycopated Rowing? Hopefully the staggered thrust will result in a higher top speed?..
Keep up the great content 😃👍
my first response would be the most stupid...
Raise the oars... mount them 2 or 3 blocks HIGHER to offset the this way they will be able to pull out of the water
Okay, from what I can see, the resistance from the ores going forward is negatively affecting your speed/stability. If you could turn ores to be more aerodynamic while they return to the front, it might help a lot.
you dont have the mass to keep you in the water. You basacally launching our ship out of the water. Also you timings are wrong. The timings entering the water and exeting the water changes when you speed goes up.
what if instead of long oars, you made it just the paddles on the side that turn to move and then spin (to prevent moving backwards) , return to their starting position and do that again like
ll - l] - \\ - == . it would be slower but i'm just curious
the times it flied made me kinda think of a bird 🤔
I wonder how well you could actually row through the air when building towards that.
would kinda just need to rotate the oars by 90degrees when getting them to the front to have them kinda act as wing pieces while having less air resistance in the direction of travel.
You could get the oars moving faster I think if you put them on a hinge and pushed them with a piston. Also, the longer you are the more stable it should be, your weight distribution seemed off...
Maybe use hover pads and have the body be a thin scaffold, as well as adding multi Directional stabilizers and making it very heavy. This way the hover pads will keep it at a predictable distance above the water at all times.
I would have tried:
**Gimbal jets set to negative thrust, activated by an altitude sensor set to
I think having the oar's at rest position being in the middle is not helping any, you should try to make their default position forward and up. that way the oar's will only stop in the forward up and back down positions. also you are on the right track making the back of the boat extra long for stability but you need to do the same to the front.
It feels like you need a slower movement to put it back into the first position. The stroke seems fine, but when you lift it up and put it back it's janky and throwing the ship around.
The Problem is That your boat isn't Wide Enough to counter The Tork of your Ores length a Sail and Mast would help
if angle and sink are an issue try setting up two rotors, one angled to rotate at 5 degrees then the other rotating in the opposite direction at 6-7
degrees don't know what the math would be on the true angle with the second rotor being attached to the first doing so would add some weight to the boat, you could also dry adding more floats too widen the base and build a deeper keel, doing so should help to stabilize the jumping around as its increased weight would give it more stability. another option may be to weight the hull so that it sits just below the waters surface and the oars instead raise into the air and row at a Zero Angle parallelly to the waters surface, although balancing the front and back may prove difficult as if its too far forward it will dive and lose speed to drag, and too far back and it will keep jumping out of the water
Kinda sad he didn't try power coupler oars. Not because I think they'd be good, just because I want to see what would happen lol.
The oar pivot point is too close to the water raise the oars about 8 blocks higher.
Alternate the oars so that they are gitting the water in sequence not all at the same time. Which will help with stability and overall speed.
You're making it harder on yourself to make the adjustments you need to.
This gives me an idea for an multi-player episode where you try to build a vehicle that'll launch itself out of the water and then glide. And the objective is to see which creation can glide the furthest after launching out of the water.
Imagine going to 170 and back to 0 over and over again irl. That's not a measure of speed, it's a measure of vomit potential.
You should try to get the oars move like millipedelegs. In that way you always have some oars in the water at all times🤔😜 greatings from sweden🙋♂️
Try making an ‘L’ shape oar (rather than an ‘I’ shape). This way its easier to control the depth and you can ensure the oar is raised high enough to be out of the water when it is doing the back paddling action.
maybe, make the ship longer and separate more the oars so you dont need to connect them? that would avoid it from kicking you back as hard as it does now and would make it over all more stable, also maybe cycle them so some oars always accelerating you forward allowing it to have a consistent speed
12:00 everything can be solved with logic. I’m in pain, pls, logic helps a lot, u can change angles in the different directions and speed.
08:34 The same thing is happening to my ornicopter the servos are sometimes out of sync so I need to respawn until it's fine enough to fly
It's from length if something on servo is longer It's more probably to go out of sync
Sorry for my english :/
If you control the servos with a logic gate you can set the output of the logic gate to 0.5 which would make the speed of the servo 50%