Have you ever bought a car? If so, you had to do business with someone with whom your fundamental interests were misaligned. How did you go about doing this? Even if that car checked every one of your boxes, I doubt that you pursued the sale with unabashed enthusiasm, as this would be a stupid strategy. Dating isn't much different. The best way to negotiate a good deal for yourself is to approach the discussion from a place of indifference. I'll discuss more in this episode. Orion is a licensed psychologist in the state of California. Podcast available of Spotify, Instagram, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts and others. See the "About" tab for more information on donations and consultations. Website: oriontarabanpsyd.com
A twisty but clear (and hilarious) analogy defending the ethics of displaying initial indifference in matters of the heart, same as shopping for a car. Clinical psychologist + retired thespian is quite an unusual background -- but, it sure works in these modern parables you preach so well here, Dr. Taraban.
I'm not sure about this analogy. I've always known what cars I wanted to buy and I always get them at the best price. No place locally had a 2017 Abarth 124 Spider (in black with red interior) and I had to order one from out of State because I couldn't find one locally (I even got it below MSRP). The 2023 Ford Maverick I custom ordered on the Ford website with the interior color scheme I wanted. I got them both at a fair price based on standard MSRP. I am happy with both of them. I got exactly what I wanted and at the price I wanted, but I can't say the same thing about the women in my life because you can't really customize a woman.
There are a few. Just not the brand new ones. Either buy one so messed up that no one wants it. Buy it for literal pennies on the dollar and fix it up so you don't carry a car note. Or buy exactly what you want at the lowest point in its depreciation typically 7-10 years old and then maintain it religiously. Minimal car note and you get exactly what you want. As opposed to the first option where you take what your cheapest yet repairable quality option is. For example my daily is a 2005 Mercedes-benz C320 4matic that was a repo with structural suspension damage and lack of maintenance. Bought if for $1200 and helped the seller swing a motor in his mini truck. Then I put in some hard work and had to buy a few thousand dollars in parts. Now I drive a decent yet not new car for around half of what it's worth and I have no car payment.
My 2007 Honda Fit is parked in my building garage, low mileage.. (I am single stay-at-home no drama self sufficient lady).. yep, the car analogy works for me. 🧐
This is WHY relationships were always more genuine and fun when I was a younger person. It wasn't a business transaction - it was just sharing ideas and having fun. Then you become an adult and everything changes to, "How much money do you make and how much money can I get in the divorce..."
I love the car analogy. Here’s how it usually goes looking for a car for men. And yes I’m trying to be light about it because this is real experiences men go through. Women share yours as well -odometer ripped out ( body count will never be disclosed ) -Ferrari price tag on a Honda ( high expectations ) -can see the dents and torn up interior ( emotional damage from chads one night stands ) -seems to be bonding and fixes all over ( makeup ) -test drive ok. Pulls out of parking lot and engine falls out ( dates goes ok to find out true character later ) -what you thought was a fine clutch and it’s burnt out ( finds out she’s on anti depressants and other forms of copium ) -starter is fine. Then months later starter goes bad unless you finesse it ( gives you sex then starts using it to bargain with ) -taking it to the shop a month later ( arguments ensue ) -one year later engine is destroyed and car is totaled because car said it was bored ( women has your baby. You find out it’s not yours. Then she divorces you taking half the house. Pay child support for a kid that’s not yours as you signed the birth certificate. Pay alimony. Pay lawyer fees. See the kid twice a week ) -you show up early from work and car is gone and later find traces some other guy was in your car( woman is flirting with guys on social media. Could be exs as well. Meets up with the guy from work ) I’ve yet to find a used car where the deal was so great I told the salesman I want it
You want a one owner uses car. Or better yet, a new one straight from the factory. Better yet, you can buy several new ones, all types of models, if you have the resources.
@@bonevolt "Be the best car you can be and you will have plenty of people looking for you" This is false, button-down-shirt , blue pilled dating advice. Simply not reality, especially in the west.
This is one of the profoundest lessons taught by Dr T. Wanting HER does not take you any closer to your goal. It’s getting her to want YOU that does. This is why you must be very very sparing when complimenting a woman. Do it only if the overall effect is for it to shine a better light on YOU. On a side note I remember Rush Limbaugh used to say (half jokingly), “the purpose of callers is to make the HOST (himself) shine”.
I guess this is why marriage is so problematic. The problem with marriage is that it makes it almost impossible for the husband to negotiate because marriage is a one-sided legal contract, e.g. the wife can take the money, house and kids on divorce. Wives don't need to negotiate. Imagine, trying to negotiate a car purchase where you as the buyer have no leverage because the courts will always support the seller! The buyer (i.e. the husband) will continually get screwed over.
The “Bard” of Psychology😂🎉! Respect man! I really can’t imagine what it takes to break this down and make it palatable and universally applicable, all at once.
You present so well I was laughing at my own ineptitude in dating. I have actually scared myself out of even trying. But compare it to a transaction involving money I have to spend, a different ballpark. I watch money closer than who I let into my life before..not anymore, but that is sad. Not ready for dating but don't have to scare myself out of it.
Negotiations sometimes + conversations always + exploratory discussions that can encompass both peoples individual goals as well as team goals no matter how unorthodox, unlikely or irregular
I think analogy works but the solution not so much, the hard to get approach doesn’t work unless you are actually hard to get, using the car dealer as the gatekeeper for one getting a car. The car dealer is VERY experienced determining who has the MEANs to afford a vehicle vs. the ones who don’t. Your advice implies that if you have more confidence anyone can get the car they want. What about if you have 3k in your pocket but you want a brand new car worth 20k, no amount of pretending is going to change the fact that you do not have 20k in your pocket. You have two choices wait and save up until you have the funds fir the car you want, or buy the car you can afford. In dating terms the issue isn’t the psychology of the dealer its that supply demand criteria has shifted in the dating market place, the value of the buyer spending power has dropped as the average value of the vehicle has increased. You also don’t consider utility, the utility of a good is in its use. What happens when the vehicle becomes a luxury item that because of its price reduces its utility. A car may be useful but only in comparison to its use. If a car costs more than the buyer can make it has no real utility to that buyer. Even more disturbing is the buyer that can afford the more expensive cars. He will have his pick of the litter he will test drive each car and probably settle on a couple of cars because he has the money but alas he too will have a daily dependable car, the utility of those cars to him will plummet to almost zero. So the value of a car has increased and the spending power is reduced and the individual utility of each car is dropping dramatically. Ultimately its a destructive market bc only so many can buy new expensive cars. And only one person can have use of so many cars. What future awaits the cars that sit on the market at unaffordable prices and the buyers that cannot get a vehicle. Feels like the making of a dystopian society to me 🤦♂️. In simple terms, the value that men brings to the table is less, and the value of a women has increased, bc of the changing dynamics of our society. But the actual utility of a relationship is disappearing. It’s becoming a societal issue, is this the makings of a good and healthy society. Just seems like at the end of the day you are left with a lot of unhappy people both men and women .
Hi Orion! "... If you're wanting them more, then the best they can do is to give you what you want - that is not an attractive offer to most people, because people want to get what they want." I believe this ties to your different video about the Adoring-Adored. It kinda sounds that your premise is that only one person in a relationship can get what they want. As in, one side compromises and one doesn't. This doesn't seem like a balanced union where both sides are fulfilling their desires/expectations - how can such a relationship function, if it can exist at all? Thanks.
Having worked in moto / auto sales & been very successful - it is nothing like dating. I do not have to prove the the car that I am 'enough' to own it, drive it, maintain it and keep it running. PS as a car sales guy, I drove a 20 year old truck that I pulled out of a field, for 800.00 - I rebuilt the motor, new tranny, new brakes, new wheels & tires - 2K total. I had it for 10 years. The depreciation of a new car vs dating is an apt analogy though.
Tremendously insightful analysis. From this viewpoint sexual escalation is simply a form of negotiation. What is your response to my light touch on your elbow? The touch on the elbow is an offer. Her response is acceptance or a counter-offer. Also, the idea that making people want you is doing them a favor, because people only want to get things that they want is excellent. So, playing hard to get makes them happier when they get you in the end.
'Don't be stupid!' This is wonderful. I want it for a sound bite on a button I press when I recognize I'm tip-toing towards dumb, unproductive, and useless waters. I immediately shouted out to no one; 'Aye. Aye, Captain, Sir!'
When you buy a car but didn't realize the seatbelt chokes you, the blind spots are a liability, you can't seem to park, parallel or otherwise without getting back in and correcting after you thought you parked, and gas seems to be evaporating at miraculous rates. And you're stuck with it unless you crash because depreciation
Everybody wants what they want... but they act like there's something wrong with YOU for wanting what YOU want, regardless of what it is. So you have to pretend (lie) like you either want something else entirely or like you want nothing at all. THEN they sit there and act like they can't understand WHY nobody is "honest" about what they want. It's all backwards.
The other part of this similitude is that men have a longer time period to negotiate but the same can’t be said of women. The majority of men are looking for a female’s fertility when they are considering long-term relationships in which they will provide her with stability and security. Women’s fertility windows are different than men’s… It’s in each party’s best interest to negotiate when they each have the most leverage
I had a car I loved, a Honda Accord station wagon. I called it the stretch honda. My last relationship it broke beyond logical repairs or means to do so. I have 1 kid, he had 3. He had Parkinsons and didn't drive and we needed transportation for his appointments and a car that fit 6 people. I was a waitress,he was about to lose his job in IT for the GSA at SAIC. Both our names on a Kia Sedona pre-owned mini Van, that I couldn't afford when he decided to quit paying for.. and somehow a repossession in my name only. Buying this car was the worst relationship ever and I miss my old one but I don't want my grand marquis to get jealous. It's kinda old but with the panther platform and capacity of pulling a tiny camper, it's a chariot pulled by cats
Interesting and I'm sure you're right about people in general. But I'm just not built that way, my emotions are wired differently. Honestly. Whether someone likes me (romantically, socially, personally, professionally), influences my feeling towards them a great deal. I don't really 'get' the psychology of these negotiations. Can anyone relate? In a 'negotiation' I usually present what I'm willing to 'pay', evaluate what the other side is willing to 'provide' and that's it. I communicate that I'm making a decent offer in good faith (to be romantic partner, friend, collaborator, whatever), that I expect the same from them, and that I'm willing to be a good partner if treated well and willing to walk away otherwise. It doesn't work every time but I seem to be doing okay without this other psychological dimension that I just don't seem to comprehend. Maybe it's because I'm an only child and my parents and the people they allowed me to interact with treated me with reason and fairness when I was growing up? Can anyone relate?
Car shopping is my least favorite experience in life and this largely explained why. I hate sales. This is why I work in IT. You want something to happen correctly? Code it correctly. There's no gray area.
The problem with this advise is that after the purchase day you will not see dealer you lied to. In relationship you would be facing person you lied to every day
Then don't lie. At no point did Dr. Orion say you should lie about who you are. Simply keep yourself somewhat of a mystery initially to create interest, and always have surprising aspects about you that you reveal occasionally.
So can i lease one legally, trade it in down the road, have one for the weekend / good weather another to do mucky jobs in. And one to drive me home drunk?
A car is really used for the purpose to get from point A to point B . It might be that a Ferrari will make you arrive to your destination a little more faster but not safer .
This reminds me of my experience in highschool. I was crazy about one girl, and put all my effort there. She didn't want me (out of my league TBH). Roughly half of the other girls (very small school) that I didn't give attention to, I found out at various points were interested in me. Man I was stupid.
Like renting a car. Put a lot of miles on it, drive it fast and hard and don’t worry about the dents you put in it. It’s just going back to the lot for the next driver.
Many times I don't even know what I want. But I experienced it in life several times, that God always knows better what I want. Sometimes I just accept what God seems to offer me, and it turns out to be the best. Of course it is not always easy to know, what comes from God, and what not, and sometimes it takes time, but after I realise it, I just go all in. I know that God always wants to make me happy, even if something comes with difficulties. Many times I don't understand why things happen, only later. I just try to be in line with God's will. If I don't get something, I am sure, that there is a reason for that. So I move forward.
Dating nowadays looks more like roaming around on a scrapyard. The good cars seem not to be available. I'm always told that they are already reserved and prepayment is done. But if you come back several weeks later they are still hanging around with even more miles. But still not for sale. Who understands that???
Seems like you're saying playing the game of hard to get will work in your benefit. Like if you have good credit and an income that can manage the car payments, and the salesman sells their car to a client that can see the financial contract to its close, it's a win win. Why do you have to act uninterested in something that you obviously want, potentially giving time for another buyer to purchase the vehicle, and why does the salesman need to notice that you are interested and willing, so they see this as their window to capitalize and "price you out of the option." Causing the client to be unable to make the purchase and the salesman not making a sale. Wouldn't both parties being mature enough to express their wants and needs be a better sales practice? Like if the client wants the car they may be inclined to buy more options, like leather seats or a higher quality paint job, that won't completely price them out of the purchase, and the salesman gets their kick from the higher commission earned.
I believe expressing wants and needs require vulnerability. And most people are scared of being vulnerable because being exposed means you could get abused by the other party.
it comes down to people (mostly women) thinking they will get another similar opportunity and foolishly thinking that a relationship, so long as it is a long term one offers the same rewards no matter who it maybe with. obviously they find out that this simply is the case, relationships with better suited people are far better 9/10 times than with people who are not and we’re simply the ones who managed to “negotiate” their way into a relationship
Hi PsycHacks. I have a question about this observation: "People do not want what wants them" This part of your logic doesn't hold up many many times, and this sentence is literally the foundation of your logical conclusions.... In fact so many people want people who want (i.e. "are compatible with") them.
I usually agree with you, but this time I don't... A car doesn't have feelings and doesn't need to like you back. What you are suggesting is playing games. Men have played games with me.. I saw it and walked away every time....
Sure, but the negotiation isn't between the buyer and the car, it is between the buyer and the seller, so it isn't a perfect analogy. In reality, the person being approached for a relationship is also assessing the suitability of the "buyer", and is rarely absolutely transparent either. It is always a negotiation to some degree.
@@DanielClementYoga in his analogy the negotiation is not with the car. It is with the seller of the car. In dating the car is the relationship that the seller is offering for sale.
Games are not deceptive, if you both know that you are playing a game. Games are fun, if you both know that it's a game. The fun is not in who wins or loses. The fun is in the play. At the end of a well played game, both players are winners. If you end up in bed, it doesn't mean that anyone has lost.
I think you're reacting emotionally which caused you to miss the point. Try watching again without bringing your past negative experiences into your understanding of his points.
@@MartialistKS No, it's just that the analogy doesn't work from a female point of view. Maybe women should do it but it's a gross idea to neg the person you have love for. It's emotional abuse. It's not a good foundation at all.
This entirely unromantic approach is interesting. So the intention of this strategy is to create a more powerful position for you, so that you can act and negotiate on matters from a higher status? And also can feel more secure that your future partner is more likely going to stick around and put up with your difficult sides and general difficult aspects in the relationship, because they wanted you? Kinda precaution against divorce/breakups. Makes sense strategically. However I wonder: Where is your/one's own "wanting“ in the dynamic? Is your strategy to stay indifferent about the other party externally and internally? If you do find your prospective partner attractive, do you recommend suppressing or hiding it? Or do you see space for developing your own wanting and showing it a little more after a certain time in the dating process? If they wanted and chose you, without anything coming from you, this would create a one-sided dynamic. Then your counterpart has to "pursue you hard and persuade you" into the relationship with them in this strategy? I also wonder about the gender dynamics this would create, if men acted this indifferent way, were in the position of the "adored" and had to get pursued for a relationship by the woman they date?
I'm thinking the over-exaggerated example serves to explain to people what desperation looks like (a VERY unattractive trait, especially to women) and kind of what to do instead. Dr. Orion didn't explain it specifically but I'm thinking once you have the proverbial car, you're free to relax and enjoy it and show it all the love and affection you want. What do you think?
@@Vladimyrful I think it’s best to keep a balance. When it comes to dating, displaying "desperation“ or "indifference“ are polar opposites and would be shifting from one extreme to the other. For my aforementioned (and other) reasons, I don’t see "indifference“ in the dating process as beneficial. I can’t assess how Dr. Orion meant it, and unless he clarifies his notion, we can only wonder. To me, it came across like not showing interest or attraction but letting your counterpart pursue and persuade you into a relationship. And this would have diverse repercussions and also disrupt gender dynamics, if men acted that way and were the indifferent parties. Only starting to display interest and attraction AFTER one has embarked on a relationship would be utterly unromantic and strange, especially coming from men.
@@KatharinaKaschka Indifference sounds like "I want you, but if you don't want me, then it's fine." I want a rolls Royce, but I can live just fine without it.
@@genericname7020 That does not work if you want a lasting, meaningful relationship. In a sense, this behaviour becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy which is then by virtue of confirmation bias viewed as "undeniable" evidence.
I acted just like the loser in the dealership. I thought being forthcoming, not playing game, saying what's really in my mind would make me trustworthy and carry me further. . . not so
I get your fundamental point, but I think the hyperbolic presentation (while sometimes being accurate for a desperate person) of the car buying metaphor might not be consistently applicable to lots of people. I do tend to assume indifference in general. After all, I simply don't know the overwhelming majority of women on the planet, so it's impossible for me to know if they check any of my boxes, let alone all of them. So inherently, most women will be of no value, so it's fair to assume indifference. However, your presentation of "the muscle car that checks all my boxes" implies a decent amount of vetting, which takes time... Possibly a lot of time if you are doing proper vetting. It takes time to know if you have sustained social chemistry, physical chemistry, compatible values, compatible life paths, etc. If one has spent the time to verify all that and they still assume indifference, I would say the indifference is false. At a certain point, strong interest has to be clear in order to be authentic, as a lot of the "negotiation" has already been done. I think where the aspect of a "continued negotiation" becomes very valuable is that people need to maintain the value they put forth and re-evaluate what is going on so they can ensure they are still on the same page and moving positively forward. I would think about this more like a landscaping contract. Are the landscapers continuously providing the service that was previously negotiated? Is the customer keeping up with service payments? Does the customer require more services because they've updated their property? If all these things are being positively negotiated through the years, you have a working relationship. However, if these things are not being sufficiently met, you now have a reason to fall back on assumed indifference. Remember, at one point this landscaping business was just one of several from which you chose and you are free to respectfully look for another. And you're not doing it out of nowhere because you "always" assume indifference, you have reasons which you've addressed. Similarly, all women start as someone you didn't know, so you assume indifference at the start. They earn your interest and you should show it at appropriate amounts at appropriate times. But if your negotiated "contract" standards aren't being maintained or significantly change over time, then you have a right to reassume indifference because, after all, there are plenty of fish in the sea.
The modern dating market is so bad it's like going to a job interview and shopping for a used vehicle combined! - The WORST dating/relationship/marriage landscape I've seen in modern history!
i do not want to make assumptions, but does the channel have a bias towards being single? any future content about the positives of a well sustained marriage? i also acknowledge some content pertains to the reflection of a majority, but what about minority situations? a weak example is knowing what an average intelligence person wants (because its the majority) vs. things intelligent people want. building the world around/for/because of mediocrity.
Where have all the good cars gone?" Where have all the good men gone?" The different is that to get a good car men or women have to pay for the car. Women looking for a good men is quite different because normally men are the providers.
I'm open to dating but I don't want someone with a lot of miles on them. Because I don't have alot of miles on me. The guy has to be a freak BDSM and Goth, I need to start going to more Vampire , Goth events
I’d argue you should imagine it like renting your car to eventually sell it. Having an experienced driver is generally good, however he may drive recklessly
These videos are so strange to me. They're about the laws of attraction, but the interactions described lack the organic qualities of a naturally formed relationship. It's a lot more than a transaction, a lot more than the adrenaline of attraction.
No. This doesn't work with me. And BTW, from who's perspective - the man or the woman? You are talking about an individual who's in the position of power to pick and choose. Most men aren't in that position.
And it is demeaning comparing women and men to buying cars or paychecks or whatever, but I am sure they get loads of hits. I like this man’s how to deal in life videos. These cursor ones seem to be for sex starved men who have a low opinion of women
he has made videos for women and/or touched on a few things that women can do. so you are not fully correct. is this channel made by a guy for men MOSTLY? yes, but not 100%
@@Ensource yes a few things but mostly it is a thread of anti woman rants. And honestly comparison to buying a car.?His general videos are very helpful but I think he must get a ton of hits w these lame women are from Venus men are from mars type of thing. Whatever. I just had no idea there were that many angry sex starved men. If you are having women trouble check your attitude at door. It comes across loud and clear. That’s all a man needs to know about women
Red pill work well with modern women wanting "better and better men", at the cost of lesser and lesser relationships. The more formidable (by superficials standards) a man is for a woman, the more forgettable (also by superficial standards) she will be for him. Princes marry the princesses, but they will still fuck the village girls as long they don't have to commit. Modern women choose to become "the best men's" sex toy over being an ordinary man's lover. That's how much status became more important than love, for "feminist" women. "That's just a place for men complaining about women". Even if it was. That's good enough. That would be one place, where males can complain about females with freedom, while females can complain as much they want about males. Women get value by complaining, men lose value by complaining. That's how sexist the world is against men now in the ouest. Male spaces are threatened cy censorship everywhere, while female space have all freedom to spreed hate speech against men. Even if this youtube channel was "a damn male space", you don't know what it's like to not be able to have your own gender space anywhere, because your gender as been branded as evil by "feminists". Anyone that would be able to make a male space, where men are treated with empathy and compassion, as human beings capable of suffering, would be acting for more gender equality. You blame him for what ? To give to men, what women have the monopoly ? "My gender" space ? May be for once, you got educated about men's experience of life, instead of teaching without being learning yourself. May be, you are one of those women talking all year long about what it's feel to be a woman, but never listening men about what's it's like to be them. May be, i am just doing speculation like you. In a society that don't care about your suffering, why should you not be bitter ? It's not being bad, but not being cared about that make you bitter. A woman know what's it like to not being able to trust those around her. A man know what's it like to have no one around him. While women ask "where are the good men ? Do they knows i exist ?", men ask "where are everyone else ? Do humanity knows i exist ?". Male loneliness, is about having no choice, not even a bad one. If you are on the ground as a woman, a man will pick you up and try to date you. If you are on the ground as a man, no women would look at you, and no one will pick you up ever.
Have you ever bought a car? If so, you had to do business with someone with whom your fundamental interests were misaligned. How did you go about doing this? Even if that car checked every one of your boxes, I doubt that you pursued the sale with unabashed enthusiasm, as this would be a stupid strategy. Dating isn't much different. The best way to negotiate a good deal for yourself is to approach the discussion from a place of indifference. I'll discuss more in this episode.
Orion is a licensed psychologist in the state of California.
Podcast available of Spotify, Instagram, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts and others.
See the "About" tab for more information on donations and consultations.
Website: oriontarabanpsyd.com
A twisty but clear (and hilarious) analogy defending the ethics of displaying initial indifference in matters of the heart, same as shopping for a car. Clinical psychologist + retired thespian is quite an unusual background -- but, it sure works in these modern parables you preach so well here, Dr. Taraban.
I'm not sure about this analogy. I've always known what cars I wanted to buy and I always get them at the best price. No place locally had a 2017 Abarth 124 Spider (in black with red interior) and I had to order one from out of State because I couldn't find one locally (I even got it below MSRP). The 2023 Ford Maverick I custom ordered on the Ford website with the interior color scheme I wanted. I got them both at a fair price based on standard MSRP. I am happy with both of them. I got exactly what I wanted and at the price I wanted, but I can't say the same thing about the women in my life because you can't really customize a woman.
"Where have all the good cars gone?" - True story these days
Junk Yard
😂😂
There are a few. Just not the brand new ones. Either buy one so messed up that no one wants it. Buy it for literal pennies on the dollar and fix it up so you don't carry a car note. Or buy exactly what you want at the lowest point in its depreciation typically 7-10 years old and then maintain it religiously. Minimal car note and you get exactly what you want. As opposed to the first option where you take what your cheapest yet repairable quality option is. For example my daily is a 2005 Mercedes-benz C320 4matic that was a repo with structural suspension damage and lack of maintenance. Bought if for $1200 and helped the seller swing a motor in his mini truck. Then I put in some hard work and had to buy a few thousand dollars in parts. Now I drive a decent yet not new car for around half of what it's worth and I have no car payment.
PS: don't buy a brand new car unless it is exactly what you want and you know you can afford it. If not then buy used for sure.
My 2007 Honda Fit is parked in my building garage, low mileage.. (I am single stay-at-home no drama self sufficient lady).. yep, the car analogy works for me. 🧐
This is WHY relationships were always more genuine and fun when I was a younger person. It wasn't a business transaction - it was just sharing ideas and having fun. Then you become an adult and everything changes to, "How much money do you make and how much money can I get in the divorce..."
I love the car analogy. Here’s how it usually goes looking for a car for men. And yes I’m trying to be light about it because this is real experiences men go through. Women share yours as well
-odometer ripped out ( body count will never be disclosed )
-Ferrari price tag on a Honda ( high expectations )
-can see the dents and torn up interior ( emotional damage from chads one night stands )
-seems to be bonding and fixes all over ( makeup )
-test drive ok. Pulls out of parking lot and engine falls out ( dates goes ok to find out true character later )
-what you thought was a fine clutch and it’s burnt out ( finds out she’s on anti depressants and other forms of copium )
-starter is fine. Then months later starter goes bad unless you finesse it ( gives you sex then starts using it to bargain with )
-taking it to the shop a month later ( arguments ensue )
-one year later engine is destroyed and car is totaled because car said it was bored ( women has your baby. You find out it’s not yours. Then she divorces you taking half the house. Pay child support for a kid that’s not yours as you signed the birth certificate. Pay alimony. Pay lawyer fees. See the kid twice a week )
-you show up early from work and car is gone and later find traces some other guy was in your car( woman is flirting with guys on social media. Could be exs as well. Meets up with the guy from work )
I’ve yet to find a used car where the deal was so great I told the salesman I want it
You want a one owner uses car. Or better yet, a new one straight from the factory. Better yet, you can buy several new ones, all types of models, if you have the resources.
@@bonevolt I'm an antique. I'd be happy just to get an oil change every couple of months.
@@bonevolt "Be the best car you can be and you will have plenty of people looking for you" This is false, button-down-shirt , blue pilled dating advice. Simply not reality, especially in the west.
Very entertaining comment.
I'm finding great cars all the time, but they are always already sold to someone else.
This is one of the profoundest lessons taught by Dr T. Wanting HER does not take you any closer to your goal. It’s getting her to want YOU that does. This is why you must be very very sparing when complimenting a woman. Do it only if the overall effect is for it to shine a better light on YOU. On a side note I remember Rush Limbaugh used to say (half jokingly), “the purpose of callers is to make the HOST (himself) shine”.
This episode teaches an invaluable lesson in regards to the dating scene, if you actually pay attention to it.
Dude you crack me up I don't know if it's your acting background but your inflection is amazing and hysterical
😂
Create opportunities for people to get what they want. Dang man. Great stuff
I really like how you describe relationships, I’ve never heard anyone talk about it like you do
The "where have all the good cars gone???" bit had me dying!
I guess this is why marriage is so problematic. The problem with marriage is that it makes it almost impossible for the husband to negotiate because marriage is a one-sided legal contract, e.g. the wife can take the money, house and kids on divorce. Wives don't need to negotiate. Imagine, trying to negotiate a car purchase where you as the buyer have no leverage because the courts will always support the seller! The buyer (i.e. the husband) will continually get screwed over.
Now I understand why I'm so hesitant about car ownership.
The “Bard” of Psychology😂🎉! Respect man! I really can’t imagine what it takes to break this down and make it palatable and universally applicable, all at once.
You present so well I was laughing at my own ineptitude in dating. I have actually scared myself out of even trying. But compare it to a transaction involving money I have to spend, a different ballpark. I watch money closer than who I let into my life before..not anymore, but that is sad. Not ready for dating but don't have to scare myself out of it.
I'm kinda the same in that once i realize how the game works i decided it's not worth playing it. I wasn't scared, just didn't like the rules.
Cheapskate....hopefully your money will take care of you in Old age
Negotiations sometimes + conversations always + exploratory discussions that can encompass both peoples individual goals as well as team goals no matter how unorthodox, unlikely or irregular
I think analogy works but the solution not so much, the hard to get approach doesn’t work unless you are actually hard to get, using the car dealer as the gatekeeper for one getting a car. The car dealer is VERY experienced determining who has the MEANs to afford a vehicle vs. the ones who don’t. Your advice implies that if you have more confidence anyone can get the car they want. What about if you have 3k in your pocket but you want a brand new car worth 20k, no amount of pretending is going to change the fact that you do not have 20k in your pocket. You have two choices wait and save up until you have the funds fir the car you want, or buy the car you can afford. In dating terms the issue isn’t the psychology of the dealer its that supply demand criteria has shifted in the dating market place, the value of the buyer spending power has dropped as the average value of the vehicle has increased. You also don’t consider utility, the utility of a good is in its use. What happens when the vehicle becomes a luxury item that because of its price reduces its utility. A car may be useful but only in comparison to its use. If a car costs more than the buyer can make it has no real utility to that buyer. Even more disturbing is the buyer that can afford the more expensive cars. He will have his pick of the litter he will test drive each car and probably settle on a couple of cars because he has the money but alas he too will have a daily dependable car, the utility of those cars to him will plummet to almost zero.
So the value of a car has increased and the spending power is reduced and the individual utility of each car is dropping dramatically.
Ultimately its a destructive market bc only so many can buy new expensive cars. And only one person can have use of so many cars. What future awaits the cars that sit on the market at unaffordable prices and the buyers that cannot get a vehicle. Feels like the making of a dystopian society to me 🤦♂️.
In simple terms, the value that men brings to the table is less, and the value of a women has increased, bc of the changing dynamics of our society. But the actual utility of a relationship is disappearing. It’s becoming a societal issue, is this the makings of a good and healthy society. Just seems like at the end of the day you are left with a
lot of unhappy people both men and women .
Well said and so spot on....everyone loses...
Hi Orion!
"... If you're wanting them more, then the best they can do is to give you what you want - that is not an attractive offer to most people, because people want to get what they want."
I believe this ties to your different video about the Adoring-Adored. It kinda sounds that your premise is that only one person in a relationship can get what they want. As in, one side compromises and one doesn't. This doesn't seem like a balanced union where both sides are fulfilling their desires/expectations - how can such a relationship function, if it can exist at all? Thanks.
Having worked in moto / auto sales & been very successful - it is nothing like dating. I do not have to prove the the car that I am 'enough' to own it, drive it, maintain it and keep it running. PS as a car sales guy, I drove a 20 year old truck that I pulled out of a field, for 800.00 - I rebuilt the motor, new tranny, new brakes, new wheels & tires - 2K total. I had it for 10 years.
The depreciation of a new car vs dating is an apt analogy though.
Tremendously insightful analysis. From this viewpoint sexual escalation is simply a form of negotiation. What is your response to my light touch on your elbow? The touch on the elbow is an offer. Her response is acceptance or a counter-offer. Also, the idea that making people want you is doing them a favor, because people only want to get things that they want is excellent. So, playing hard to get makes them happier when they get you in the end.
Great summary
Playing hard to get is playing a game, therfore you don't get got.
Thanks
'Don't be stupid!' This is wonderful. I want it for a sound bite on a button I press when I recognize I'm tip-toing towards dumb, unproductive, and useless waters. I immediately shouted out to no one; 'Aye. Aye, Captain, Sir!'
The only difference is that cars are more reliable.
As a late mechanic's daughter, I can report that reliability is quite dependent on regular maintenence.
When you buy a car but didn't realize the seatbelt chokes you, the blind spots are a liability, you can't seem to park, parallel or otherwise without getting back in and correcting after you thought you parked, and gas seems to be evaporating at miraculous rates. And you're stuck with it unless you crash because depreciation
seems profoundly deep, on many levels; really enjoyed this video
Never underestimate the power of a good poker face!
Everybody wants what they want... but they act like there's something wrong with YOU for wanting what YOU want, regardless of what it is. So you have to pretend (lie) like you either want something else entirely or like you want nothing at all. THEN they sit there and act like they can't understand WHY nobody is "honest" about what they want. It's all backwards.
The other part of this similitude is that men have a longer time period to negotiate but the same can’t be said of women.
The majority of men are looking for a female’s fertility when they are considering long-term relationships in which they will provide her with stability and security. Women’s fertility windows are different than men’s…
It’s in each party’s best interest to negotiate when they each have the most leverage
this is a good point, which in retrospect actually puts the balance of power on the man’s side
@@David-ej1psnot quite & not always.
This guy is a genius
Great video. It aligns with my multiple decades of life experience.
As a former car salesman, I have to agree with the psychology here.
I had a car I loved, a Honda Accord station wagon. I called it the stretch honda. My last relationship it broke beyond logical repairs or means to do so. I have 1 kid, he had 3. He had Parkinsons and didn't drive and we needed transportation for his appointments and a car that fit 6 people. I was a waitress,he was about to lose his job in IT for the GSA at SAIC. Both our names on a Kia Sedona pre-owned mini Van, that I couldn't afford when he decided to quit paying for.. and somehow a repossession in my name only. Buying this car was the worst relationship ever and I miss my old one but I don't want my grand marquis to get jealous. It's kinda old but with the panther platform and capacity of pulling a tiny camper, it's a chariot pulled by cats
Extremely analytical Orion 👍
Interesting and I'm sure you're right about people in general. But I'm just not built that way, my emotions are wired differently. Honestly. Whether someone likes me (romantically, socially, personally, professionally), influences my feeling towards them a great deal. I don't really 'get' the psychology of these negotiations. Can anyone relate? In a 'negotiation' I usually present what I'm willing to 'pay', evaluate what the other side is willing to 'provide' and that's it. I communicate that I'm making a decent offer in good faith (to be romantic partner, friend, collaborator, whatever), that I expect the same from them, and that I'm willing to be a good partner if treated well and willing to walk away otherwise. It doesn't work every time but I seem to be doing okay without this other psychological dimension that I just don't seem to comprehend. Maybe it's because I'm an only child and my parents and the people they allowed me to interact with treated me with reason and fairness when I was growing up? Can anyone relate?
I really needed to hear this. Thanks dr O' Ryan
Owning a used " car " requires knowledge that the seat has conformed to many behinds, and will never ' form-fit to yours.
Car shopping is my least favorite experience in life and this largely explained why.
I hate sales. This is why I work in IT. You want something to happen correctly? Code it correctly. There's no gray area.
The problem with this advise is that after the purchase day you will not see dealer you lied to.
In relationship you would be facing person you lied to every day
Then don't lie. At no point did Dr. Orion say you should lie about who you are. Simply keep yourself somewhat of a mystery initially to create interest, and always have surprising aspects about you that you reveal occasionally.
So can i lease one legally, trade it in down the road, have one for the weekend / good weather another to do mucky jobs in. And one to drive me home drunk?
A car is really used for the purpose to get from point A to point B . It might be that a Ferrari will make you arrive to your destination a little more faster but not safer .
One of my favorites on UA-cam!
This reminds me of my experience in highschool. I was crazy about one girl, and put all my effort there. She didn't want me (out of my league TBH). Roughly half of the other girls (very small school) that I didn't give attention to, I found out at various points were interested in me. Man I was stupid.
We all were at one point or another and still will be.
Drinking game proposal: have a shot every time Orion says *"want".* :)
Thanks will be trying this soon. I get it and I understand it.
I want a Lamborghini for the cost of a bike lol
yup pretty much 😂😂
Damn! You really know your science
Like renting a car. Put a lot of miles on it, drive it fast and hard and don’t worry about the dents you put in it. It’s just going back to the lot for the next driver.
Many times I don't even know what I want.
But I experienced it in life several times, that God always knows better what I want. Sometimes I just accept what God seems to offer me, and it turns out to be the best.
Of course it is not always easy to know, what comes from God, and what not, and sometimes it takes time, but after I realise it, I just go all in. I know that God always wants to make me happy, even if something comes with difficulties.
Many times I don't understand why things happen, only later. I just try to be in line with God's will.
If I don't get something, I am sure, that there is a reason for that. So I move forward.
Dating nowadays looks more like roaming around on a scrapyard. The good cars seem not to be available. I'm always told that they are already reserved and prepayment is done. But if you come back several weeks later they are still hanging around with even more miles. But still not for sale. Who understands that???
I grew up in the country and the metaphor is buy the cow or milk the cow?
Seems like you're saying playing the game of hard to get will work in your benefit. Like if you have good credit and an income that can manage the car payments, and the salesman sells their car to a client that can see the financial contract to its close, it's a win win. Why do you have to act uninterested in something that you obviously want, potentially giving time for another buyer to purchase the vehicle, and why does the salesman need to notice that you are interested and willing, so they see this as their window to capitalize and "price you out of the option." Causing the client to be unable to make the purchase and the salesman not making a sale. Wouldn't both parties being mature enough to express their wants and needs be a better sales practice? Like if the client wants the car they may be inclined to buy more options, like leather seats or a higher quality paint job, that won't completely price them out of the purchase, and the salesman gets their kick from the higher commission earned.
I believe expressing wants and needs require vulnerability. And most people are scared of being vulnerable because being exposed means you could get abused by the other party.
it comes down to people (mostly women) thinking they will get another similar opportunity and foolishly thinking that a relationship, so long as it is a long term one offers the same rewards no matter who it maybe with. obviously they find out that this simply is the case, relationships with better suited people are far better 9/10 times than with people who are not and we’re simply the ones who managed to “negotiate” their way into a relationship
this would be a good analogy if the averaged used cars had 20+ previous owners.
Most important part of the car analogy: why buy a used car with 250k+ miles on it at all?
In what specific order do you recommend watching Dr. T.'s videos?
"I would define do the same to you" 😀 good one! You have great content anyway!
This is so true.
Hi PsycHacks. I have a question about this observation: "People do not want what wants them"
This part of your logic doesn't hold up many many times, and this sentence is literally the foundation of your logical conclusions....
In fact so many people want people who want (i.e. "are compatible with") them.
This was a fantastic analogy.
I usually agree with you, but this time I don't... A car doesn't have feelings and doesn't need to like you back. What you are suggesting is playing games. Men have played games with me.. I saw it and walked away every time....
Sure, but the negotiation isn't between the buyer and the car, it is between the buyer and the seller, so it isn't a perfect analogy. In reality, the person being approached for a relationship is also assessing the suitability of the "buyer", and is rarely absolutely transparent either. It is always a negotiation to some degree.
@@DanielClementYoga in his analogy the negotiation is not with the car. It is with the seller of the car. In dating the car is the relationship that the seller is offering for sale.
Games are not deceptive, if you both know that you are playing a game. Games are fun, if you both know that it's a game. The fun is not in who wins or loses. The fun is in the play. At the end of a well played game, both players are winners. If you end up in bed, it doesn't mean that anyone has lost.
I think you're reacting emotionally which caused you to miss the point. Try watching again without bringing your past negative experiences into your understanding of his points.
@@MartialistKS No, it's just that the analogy doesn't work from a female point of view.
Maybe women should do it but it's a gross idea to neg the person you have love for. It's emotional abuse. It's not a good foundation at all.
Wow, I think you just made my brain explode
Well put.
The video just seemed like about the issue with axiously attached people :)
This entirely unromantic approach is interesting. So the intention of this strategy is to create a more powerful position for you, so that you can act and negotiate on matters from a higher status? And also can feel more secure that your future partner is more likely going to stick around and put up with your difficult sides and general difficult aspects in the relationship, because they wanted you? Kinda precaution against divorce/breakups. Makes sense strategically. However I wonder: Where is your/one's own "wanting“ in the dynamic? Is your strategy to stay indifferent about the other party externally and internally? If you do find your prospective partner attractive, do you recommend suppressing or hiding it? Or do you see space for developing your own wanting and showing it a little more after a certain time in the dating process? If they wanted and chose you, without anything coming from you, this would create a one-sided dynamic. Then your counterpart has to "pursue you hard and persuade you" into the relationship with them in this strategy? I also wonder about the gender dynamics this would create, if men acted this indifferent way, were in the position of the "adored" and had to get pursued for a relationship by the woman they date?
I'm thinking the over-exaggerated example serves to explain to people what desperation looks like (a VERY unattractive trait, especially to women) and kind of what to do instead. Dr. Orion didn't explain it specifically but I'm thinking once you have the proverbial car, you're free to relax and enjoy it and show it all the love and affection you want. What do you think?
@@Vladimyrful I think it’s best to keep a balance. When it comes to dating, displaying "desperation“ or "indifference“ are polar opposites and would be shifting from one extreme to the other. For my aforementioned (and other) reasons, I don’t see "indifference“ in the dating process as beneficial. I can’t assess how Dr. Orion meant it, and unless he clarifies his notion, we can only wonder. To me, it came across like not showing interest or attraction but letting your counterpart pursue and persuade you into a relationship. And this would have diverse repercussions and also disrupt gender dynamics, if men acted that way and were the indifferent parties. Only starting to display interest and attraction AFTER one has embarked on a relationship would be utterly unromantic and strange, especially coming from men.
@@KatharinaKaschka Indifference sounds like "I want you, but if you don't want me, then it's fine." I want a rolls Royce, but I can live just fine without it.
@@genericname7020 That does not work if you want a lasting, meaningful relationship. In a sense, this behaviour becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy which is then by virtue of confirmation bias viewed as "undeniable" evidence.
The ideal situation is to marry the woman you like and love/adore your mistress.
The Art of The Deal
Sales people are crazy these days. 100k miles, but priced like it's brand new just because many want (and get) a free test drive
I acted just like the loser in the dealership. I thought being forthcoming, not playing game, saying what's really in my mind would make me trustworthy and carry me further. . . not so
Game changer
I subscribed doc
dating is like buying a car, for women. dating is like a broken car, for men
Lol!!!
Maybe even a public transport vehicle, everyone has been inside it and you hope not stand inside a mess that someone has left inside.
I get your fundamental point, but I think the hyperbolic presentation (while sometimes being accurate for a desperate person) of the car buying metaphor might not be consistently applicable to lots of people.
I do tend to assume indifference in general. After all, I simply don't know the overwhelming majority of women on the planet, so it's impossible for me to know if they check any of my boxes, let alone all of them. So inherently, most women will be of no value, so it's fair to assume indifference.
However, your presentation of "the muscle car that checks all my boxes" implies a decent amount of vetting, which takes time... Possibly a lot of time if you are doing proper vetting. It takes time to know if you have sustained social chemistry, physical chemistry, compatible values, compatible life paths, etc. If one has spent the time to verify all that and they still assume indifference, I would say the indifference is false. At a certain point, strong interest has to be clear in order to be authentic, as a lot of the "negotiation" has already been done.
I think where the aspect of a "continued negotiation" becomes very valuable is that people need to maintain the value they put forth and re-evaluate what is going on so they can ensure they are still on the same page and moving positively forward. I would think about this more like a landscaping contract. Are the landscapers continuously providing the service that was previously negotiated? Is the customer keeping up with service payments? Does the customer require more services because they've updated their property? If all these things are being positively negotiated through the years, you have a working relationship. However, if these things are not being sufficiently met, you now have a reason to fall back on assumed indifference. Remember, at one point this landscaping business was just one of several from which you chose and you are free to respectfully look for another. And you're not doing it out of nowhere because you "always" assume indifference, you have reasons which you've addressed.
Similarly, all women start as someone you didn't know, so you assume indifference at the start. They earn your interest and you should show it at appropriate amounts at appropriate times. But if your negotiated "contract" standards aren't being maintained or significantly change over time, then you have a right to reassume indifference because, after all, there are plenty of fish in the sea.
Where is all this coming? The father and Uncle I never had thanks a million.
Smart ❤
Oh boy, this analogy could've gone wrong really fast, specially when you didn't like the color.
I don't want playing mind games, mind games are bulshit
The modern dating market is so bad it's like going to a job interview and shopping for a used vehicle combined! - The WORST dating/relationship/marriage landscape I've seen in modern history!
True as fuck , i learned that the hard way
i do not want to make assumptions, but does the channel have a bias towards being single? any future content about the positives of a well sustained marriage?
i also acknowledge some content pertains to the reflection of a majority, but what about minority situations? a weak example is knowing what an average intelligence person wants (because its the majority) vs. things intelligent people want. building the world around/for/because of mediocrity.
Dating is more like choosing from the least worse shit box.
This is assuming someone has an abundance mindset and they have a other options available.
Ok I undestand his point, but where is the nice and beautiful love story we´ve been told about meeting a romantic partner?
Where have all the good cars gone?"
Where have all the good men gone?"
The different is that to get a good car men or women have to pay for the car.
Women looking for a good men is quite different because normally men are the providers.
Desire cannot be negotiated.
Where were you in 1992
Have you thought of also doing acting? Joining an agency near where you are located? You have potential :D
👍
I'm open to dating but I don't want someone with a lot of miles on them. Because I don't have alot of miles on me. The guy has to be a freak BDSM and Goth, I need to start going to more Vampire , Goth events
You may discover that a used Mercedes is more valuable than a new Chevy. And you may discover that a used Mercedes is looking for a low mileage owner.
@@brookvalley907 Nonsense. You wouldn't say this if it was the other way around.
@@joyandpeacefullaughter5307 agreed…
I’d argue you should imagine it like renting your car to eventually sell it. Having an experienced driver is generally good, however he may drive recklessly
What exactly is the cost you're talking about?
If you mean commitment, then yeah you have misaligned incentives
These videos are so strange to me. They're about the laws of attraction, but the interactions described lack the organic qualities of a naturally formed relationship. It's a lot more than a transaction, a lot more than the adrenaline of attraction.
why do you look like an Oblivion character model
But the car wants you?
I’ll take an UBER thanks😂
Except that you are always buying a used, poorly repaired car for a price of new Bentley.
Women are like electric cars, very expensive to get, but worth very little in a short time
Man woman drama 😂
No. This doesn't work with me. And BTW, from who's perspective - the man or the woman?
You are talking about an individual who's in the position of power to pick and choose. Most men aren't in that position.
I think these relationship videos are just a forum for men to complain about women. Disappointing a little.
And it is demeaning comparing women and men to buying cars or paychecks or whatever, but I am sure they get loads of hits. I like this man’s how to deal in life videos. These cursor ones seem to be for sex starved men who have a low opinion of women
he has made videos for women and/or touched on a few things that women can do. so you are not fully correct. is this channel made by a guy for men MOSTLY? yes, but not 100%
@@Ensource yes a few things but mostly it is a thread of anti woman rants. And honestly comparison to buying a car.?His general videos are very helpful but I think he must get a ton of hits w these lame women are from Venus men are from mars type of thing. Whatever. I just had no idea there were that many angry sex starved men. If you are having women trouble check your attitude at door. It comes across loud and clear. That’s all a man needs to know about women
Car salesman are probably the least honest ppl. They lie by omission or outright. Not a great analogy. They have a bad rep for a reason
Red pill work well with modern women wanting "better and better men", at the cost of lesser and lesser relationships. The more formidable (by superficials standards) a man is for a woman, the more forgettable (also by superficial standards) she will be for him. Princes marry the princesses, but they will still fuck the village girls as long they don't have to commit. Modern women choose to become "the best men's" sex toy over being an ordinary man's lover. That's how much status became more important than love, for "feminist" women.
"That's just a place for men complaining about women". Even if it was. That's good enough. That would be one place, where males can complain about females with freedom, while females can complain as much they want about males. Women get value by complaining, men lose value by complaining. That's how sexist the world is against men now in the ouest.
Male spaces are threatened cy censorship everywhere, while female space have all freedom to spreed hate speech against men.
Even if this youtube channel was "a damn male space", you don't know what it's like to not be able to have your own gender space anywhere, because your gender as been branded as evil by "feminists".
Anyone that would be able to make a male space, where men are treated with empathy and compassion, as human beings capable of suffering, would be acting for more gender equality.
You blame him for what ? To give to men, what women have the monopoly ? "My gender" space ?
May be for once, you got educated about men's experience of life, instead of teaching without being learning yourself.
May be, you are one of those women talking all year long about what it's feel to be a woman, but never listening men about what's it's like to be them.
May be, i am just doing speculation like you.
In a society that don't care about your suffering, why should you not be bitter ? It's not being bad, but not being cared about that make you bitter. A woman know what's it like to not being able to trust those around her. A man know what's it like to have no one around him. While women ask "where are the good men ? Do they knows i exist ?", men ask "where are everyone else ? Do humanity knows i exist ?".
Male loneliness, is about having no choice, not even a bad one. If you are on the ground as a woman, a man will pick you up and try to date you. If you are on the ground as a man, no women would look at you, and no one will pick you up ever.
Here's the problem with your scenario; dating is a zero sum game. You're not the only person in the dealership who desperately wants that car.