So much Information on one video so I'm definitely gonna rewind and listen closely BUT!!! What I did get out of this lesson is that YOUR ONE OF FEW CARPENTERS THAT CARES ABOUT HIS FINAL FINISH LOOK. My hats off to you Dear Sir. Peace and love from Texas.
What an absolute professional. I am an amateur DIY, and I learned what I needed to learn with respect to putting up some pine tongue and groove stuff. But you go beyond and enter into a realm of pure perfection and art. Thanks for this great lesson.
And as a former residential house painter…I would highly recommend not using semi-gloss paint in darks colours! The flatter the paint, the better it looks. And today’s matte paints are high quality, washable, and easy to touch up. :)
Interior I only use Semigloss. If exterior I use semi gloss in a darker tree in house. Semi gloss shows off light so much better and is durable more water resistant.
@@mikewhite9818 ugh..semi-gloss is not nice on interiors. You will see every bit that drywallers did not get perfect. Never for walls and ceilings. Only on trim.
@@empressche333 I use semi gloss on interiors for better light utilization. Sometimes I do have to use two coats to improve paint coverage. The second coat goes a long way to hide imperfections. If one looked real hard some flaws still remain but is over shadowed by huge improvement in light night and day. It is also a tougher paint little less likely to be damaged with scratches and user clean up of spills and marks much improved.
Semi-gloss is for your high lights- doors, casing, base and crown. If you want to put it on an entire wall, I hope they live close to you. Because you'll be doing call backs for a long time.
Great rundown. I actually used nickels to establish the groove (reveal) in shiplap to get the nickel gap look. Boards are horizontal and air-nailed to studs so no inconsistencies. The cost of premilled t&g was double that of rabeted. Used 3/4 pine from a mill, so the wood was VERY consistent. Also got longer lengths custom cut to wall lengths so there are NO butt joints. After painting I wanted the knots to eventually bleed through. This wood was not heavily knotted. But the mill did deliver paint ready boards. I used a sprayed on primer and sprayed the finish in a satin Navahoe White. It came out beautiful. Now, 2 years later the knot bleed thru is a nice homey feature.
Here in Arizona we don't do a lot of shiplap, but when I do, I do like the MDF. However, I usually install AND paint. To me it is easier to sand the whole project, with a cordless sander, after installation. To me it saves a lot of time instead of doing each board by itself. God bless, great video! 🙏🏻👍🏻👊🏻
Spencer, for appearing to be so young you sure seem to have a lot of knowledge about your profession. You should have a Million subscribers, every one that views your content should subscribe. I have learned and been made aware of so much knowledge and information about woodworking and how to do a much better job at my tasks. Much of what you teach us, many others do not know and therefore do not share. God bless you keep up the great work and keep us educated.
My entire career was built off inconsistencies. Tweeking, prying, leveling, planeing, adjusting but mostly cussing, under my breath. And then came MDF. Good product that takes away the tweeking, sanding, adjusting, etc. God forbid this house has a roof leak, AC shut down for days or rising water. Anyway, good video.
@@vidpie I'm just old school. I'm sure that job was way easier using MDF than wood. If you have to sand down MDF more than a piece of paper then something is wrong with the installation because it is consistent in thickness.
I have had an mdf board (bare) sitting in a garage for years. Hot, cold, humid. Still looks brand new. IMO mdf is fine as long as it does not physically contact water.
Great video! I’ve done miles of this stuff in only solid pine and poplar. No finger joints. Your right it’s tricky if you don’t have solid strategies for dealing with it. I think this stuff is fun to do. Because I’ve used this type of material I always use glue. Acts like a liquid shim. If the framing is parallel to the material I’ll glue and screw up strips of 3/4ply 16oc to nail and glue into. On the wider stuff, I’ll true the boards with a track saw and router. The gaps can be inconsistent so I always have spacers cut up. A case for sanding after install, I’ve done rooms with the roughy side out, to then have the customer ask it to be smooth, after filling all the nail holes, a hard pad on a Festool Rotex made really quick work of flattening everything to the point it looked milled. I definitely agree that sanding everything before you put it up is a great guarantee the painter will make you work shine. Using MDF looks really fast compared to my experiences.
Fantastic information. I wouldn’t have even considered using MDF. And your clear and concise instructions comparing and contrasting on the processes is really helping me make my mind up. I’d much rather use T&G nickel gap using MDF eliminating exposed nail holes.
There is a product from Homedepot that is basically ship-lap - BUT - the gap between boards can be TWO different widths, as the overlap is different on each side. Kind-of convenient ( except when you don't notice it, and accidentally have uneven gaps in an occasional place ).
Fantastic and educational video. Also very encouraging to see people who actually CARE about what they are doing. No idea what you charge but I'm sure you're worth every dime.
I agree with the mdf over wood! People give mdf a bad name it’s better then wood in some cases. That’s way flooring doesn’t come in long lengths. I have installed tons of Cedar and Pine tongue and groove on walls and ceilings. it’s so hard to work with cups, twist, cracking, knots falling out and the tongue is not fitting because the woods swelled too much just a nightmare
Hi Spencer, I am aware that a lot of your houses in the USA are temperature control environments. In Australia very few houses are, so to ensure the longevity of the MDF, every time you cut it you should seal it. I normally use a premier-seal one coat, if you don't then down the road you will find the MDF acts as a wick and will pull in any and all humidity, moisture or water it can find. Yes it might take a few years but once it starts to swell there is not stopping it, other than to replace it.
Interesting...I've been scoffed at a lot for doing that to the backs and cut ends of mdf trim, but it doesn't make sense to me to have a sponge sitting there waiting to soak up whatever liquids or vapors are spilled on it. I dunno perhaps for where I live it's a major waste of time
Exactly right about the thicker material hiding old wall stud inconsistency. I redid an old 1,000 sq ft cottage and if I had used 1/2" stuff it would have been wavy unless I put an extra backer behind it. I wanted 8" T&G...started looking at pine, but ended up going with MDF and because the quality of the real wood stuff was picked through, knotted, bent and dinged up. No regrets.
Hi Spencer, I saw those boards needlessly attack you and it was clearly unprovoked. Let me know if you need a witness when you nail those guys in court. 🤣🤣 Another great video.
Great overview. I'm looking to plank my kitchen and family room ceilings. One thing you my have missed... when installing planking that runs parallel to the ceiling joists, you will need nailer strips perpendicular to them to permit a good install. With nickel gap they lock together between the parts nailed to the strips, whereas shiplap will float between the sections nailed to the nailer strips and may warp over time. Another benefit I see is the nickel gap *may* be easier to remove in the event you need to do so. My bathroom sits above one side of my kitchen and should I ever have a pipe leak, it would have to be pulled to get to the underside of that bathroom, so my plan is to use more expensive thin-shank screws in that area and not nail. That way, I can easily remove the sections needed. Question (if you see this)... since you recommend sanding the pre-primed boards before install and I completely agree, is there any advantage to also pre-painting them on smaller installs? I'm only doing a couple ceilings, as mentioned above, and it may be an advantage to pre-paint for me and it would keep the reveal groves in better shape. Paint tends to fill in narrow gaps causing inconsistency.
Ok, first I wanna thank you for being meticulous and doing your job correctly. Too many people out there saying “that’s good enough“. Secondly I want your advice. I’m going to do a small wall and shiplap and hang cast-iron skillet’s on that wall. Do you recommend yellow pine instead of MDF because of the density? Thanks for your videos.
I’m in North Carolina. Never heard tong and grove called nickel gap. It’s cool to see how the same products have different names. Great work and great content. Thanks
Nickel Gap refers to the gap, or reveal, you see. Some have bevels, some are square, but it's t&g anywhere you go. Could be 3/32"gap, 1/4" gap whatever gap you want. I think, but not positive, nickle gap is 1/8".
I have installed solid pine tongue and groove 16 footers and like you say they are almost impossible to install. I've not installed the MDF but I can definitely agree with your assessment that it's much more dimensionally stable. I have ripped down some 1/4"sheets of MDF to make a faux nickel gap in it turns out fairly well when I use a gauge for spacing and I do a slight round over so that the corners aren't snagged or damaged as easily.
T&G Pine ,especially on a vaulted ceiling, is a complete nightmare requiring lots of labor and perseverance. MDF is the way to go. Unfortunately many customers LOVE that wood grain so be prepared to fight the Devil Pine. Ju$t make it worth your while.
On my real wood jobs, I take a scrap 2x and nail ahead of a bow or non locking piece, I use clamps turned backwards to push against the 2x and the t&g to press it in place then nail. Works well with pine/spruce porch ceilings as well. It’s amazing how impossible a piece may seem til you get the clamps out. Goes right in. May cost me an hour over a 250-300sqft area. IMO, totally worth it
We used ship lap in agricultural buildings. It was always fairly green pine. We installed the ship lap with the joint tight. The “nickel gap” look came over time as the wood shrank. But it also gives room for wood movement. This is essentially nullified in mdf
Great video, especially since shiplap is so popular nowadays. As a DIYer and hobby woodworker, I love your videos man. Clear, relevant and valuable information. Also, its clear you take immense pride in your work and it shows in the quality of the result. Keep em coming!
I just got done with a big shiplap job in a basement.. 2 full rooms and a closet all stain grade poplar shiplap. Looks great, Mitered the outside corners but it was a bear. Now wondering if I should have glued! Oops.
Thanks so much Spencer, I do custom woodworking but haven't done shiplap. Of all the videos I've reviewed today, yours is it absolute best primer on the subject. Great Job! I was not aware of Nickel Back, but will certainly choose that for the installation.
Wow I appreciate all the explanation and detail! I will be taking on my first shiplap project in a small half-bath this month. Glad I found this one! You raised a new thing to consider in using a thin plywood which may show imperfections in the wall not being smooth. I may look at a 3/4 tongue and groove now.
I’ve installed several nickel gap “rabbeted” ship lap that has a tongue and grove incorporated set up on it. It’s and MDF product made by Alexandria MDF products.
As a small millwork producer, I love to hear what everybody likes and dislikes! Latest craze for me to run has been flooring that is used as ceiling and wall covering. Full rough face reclaimed barnwood, personally not my cup of tea but I make what the client wants. I can explain snipe in a video much better than a description typed out. Spencer, do you have a custom producer near you or just getting it from the big yards? I only ask because it seems like the small custom guys are disappearing all over the place.
Wow! Thanks tons for sharing your experience and knowledge. You’re saving me a lot of headache. Just doing a 11’ X 6’ bathroom so small job but I was just about to buy shiplap. I’ve done a ceiling in tongue n groove and it turned out great. Wife was telling me shiplap for this project so I was thinking it would be just as easy. Nope! Your explanations are eye openers! Thanks again! 👍💪
Excellent information. You clearly helped me to decide on the MDF nickel gap for the install I am preparing for. A 10’ x14’ wall installation (possibly ceiling as well) with a horizontal install over studs in a below-ground location. The basement CMU walls have been coated for water proofing, bonded closed cell insulation over the CMU and then studs abutting the insulation board, with anchored bottom plate to concrete and top plate anchored to overhead floor joists.
Our nickel gap in the Detroit market is all shiplap style, I haven't seen any here that is T&G. I definitely see the advantage of the T&G type, now I wish we had it here!
I glue and face nailed my shiplap. the trick to not seeing nail holes is overfilling them and sanding it flush. The brad nail mushrooms the surface of the board so I glue sandpaper to a piece of board and use that to sand it flush. It looks perfect after paint but is a lot of work. thanks for the vid.
I'm with you. The holes can totally disappear with the right prep and technique, but I don't expect most carpenters to go to the extent you and I do to make that happen. If using a spackle I think that since it's water based it will raise the grain of the wood fibers and require more sanding. i like to put a little oil primer in the nail holes to seal the wood before filling them.
I’ve been a carpenter/ contractor for 38 years that specialized in foundation and framing, I’m now kinda retired an I just wanted to say I was kinda like you meaning you set yourself apart from everyone else by doing quality work and you will always get quality jobs. Great video brother! Also unfortunately I’m from california, it actually was a beautiful state and where the moneys at but not so much anymore.
I noticed that the greatest singular denominator to grow an already popular UA-cam channel is "frequency of uploads". If Spencer were to upload several videos per week he would most likely explode in subscribers. The bonus for him would be a handsome UA-cam income. Especially given the genre he belongs to/family friendly.
I always try to find MDF for the same reason but it's hit and miss who carries it around me. The one big issue I have is with damage done in transport. So many places use open flatbed trucks to deliver and will deliver when it's raining. Rain + straps + MDF + water based primer = mess. Have to be very demanding with the supplier to pack and deliver it appropriately. Learned the hard way doing a fireplace bump out similar to that (except horizontal install) and had to basically skim coat the entire thing after a clean up sanding.
Agreed on the damage during delivery. Often see a stack of 16 foot trim turned into 8 footers by running the tip of the forks down the side. See a lot of difference in the quality of the MDF also....some is crumbly junk while other is much better (often denser)....also as in the video, the surface finish varies.
We are doing a remodel on a small house, and after your video, we will likely do MDF T & G Nickel Gap for the ceiling. We have areas in the ceiling where we need to butt the raw ends of the MDF boards. What are your tips for getting a nice job of butting the board ends? Or do you have a video on that?
so watching you install vertically, what are you nailing to? Since many joints are in between studs. Are you just pinning the board till the glue dries?
In eastern NC its almost always rabbited shiplap made from primed finger jointed pine. T&G i see mostly is clear finish pine or stained and installed in ceilings. Haven't seen either in an MDF yet but get a healthy dose of it in bigger crown and closet build ins. DB
One thing you didn't mention is that MDF is dimensionally stable but wood must be acklimated before it is installed. I made this mistake with some tongue and groove knotty pine that I installed on the ceiling of bedroom at my beachfront cottage, Three weeks later I was sitting on the couch and heard POP! POP! POP! as the wood literally blew off. I pulled the nails and reinstalled the knotty pine as before. It had gained 1" in width over the 12' width of the bedroom.
@@cruzmissileoutdoors I do blocking every 4 feet and I run a 2x4 piece vertically between the framing so there is at least 1.5 inches behind the blocking to run wires. If a plumber needs to drill a few extra holes or I need to remove one or two of the blocks to run pipes vertically it isn’t a big deal and isn’t much extra work.
@@screaminpotato yes, placing them on edge gives space for electrical. Unless the wall is over 10ft, I don't place perlin blocking. The 2 areas I run blocking is where cabinets will go so that cabinet guys don't have to fish for wall studs. I'll do 2x6 blocking for both lower and upper cabinets. What's lumber prices like in your area, we are still paying $13 for 2x4-16
There is one way to avoid the surface nails with ship lap. Put it on upside down,, or inside out,,, seriously. Ship lap is an exterior cladding. It was rare to see it used on interior walls back in the day. The counter drainage direction of the rabbit sheds water, the single line of nails allows for expansion and you can "tweek" the course to make up for variations in elevation. On the interior you don't have to worry about water so rabbit orientation is no longer a problem. Reversing the rabbit let's you blind nail and when its all said and done your customer cant tell the difference (depending on the milling profile of the rabbits). Just saying. It's unconventional but if you can't have face nails and you don't have the option of t & g available or you have to mill the material yourself (with a good table saw, L-fence, dado stack and trim router you can make up a lot of ship lap in a hurry. T & G really requires a shapper and expensive tooling to get the job done. Although I have made it with a heavy duty 3hp router table set up) it's an out of the box idea taboo that the purists' will howl over, buts its only interior eye candy any way. Give it a shot. Call it French cleat interior cladding or something if you have too. 99.99999% of the people that see it won't have a clue.
How do you possibly have enough time between working and making these videos? Dot get me wrong, the videos are great, and you are very knowledgeable about carpentry! Thank you very much for the videos. There's just not enough time in a day for things that need to be done for me, much less, making a video. So, thanks much for the videos!
I had no idea that nickel gap existed. Honestly, the appearance looks so much like shiplap that I wouldn't know the difference (installed). I wouldn't use either as I hate the look, unless it's in an out building (barn, shed). It brings down the look of a home, unless you are living in a barn or shed.
As a painter I am curious if you ever pre-sand wood baseboard and casing stock prior to installing trim. Woods such as pine, cedar, fir, and spruce develop 'mill glaze' as the milling blades melt the dried sap within the wood leaving an impervious coating when the wood and sap cool. Coatings don't soak through the glaze, and they tend not to adhere to it well. As an example, cedar shakes are renowned for peeling due to mill glaze unless sanded completely or allowed to significantly weather before painting or staining. To produce a high quality product I have to; thoroughly sand the installed trim, clean it, prime it, fill holes, sand again, clean again, caulk gaps, and finally paint it with at least 2 finish coats. A carpenter who knocks a couple steps off my laborious schedule would never want for cold beer at quitting time on Fridays! Thanks
Man, I'm a little bit about the overkill but I use adhesive behind both at any time regardless of backing. I believe the one job I did vertical Poplar T&G nailed to sheeted plywood walls I still used adhesive 😂
I could see using the boards as an accent wall, but they went a little crazy with it everywhere. Two questions. 1) Do you miter outside corners and 2) why were all your butt joints lined up on the ceiling? Great job btw, I am an admirer of your talent.
Damn! I'm glad I watched your video! I'm thinking about doing a ship lap with stained wood but I might have to re-think everything after watching this. Thank you for sharing!
Great video, thank you. Do you put the baseboards and trim on after the installation? Is the trim installed on top of the nickel gap or ate they butted up to one another? Thanks in Advance.
Love your videos. Keep up the good work. Glad to see you finally stepped up to a chop saw hood. They work great for keeping the house, and your lungs, just that much more dust free.
I’m doing an install with nickel gap on an interior gable ceiling. Would it be a bad idea to use staples to secure the boards? Is it ok to do the install and then paint the ceiling? Thanks again for the video. Very helpful!
On a tounge and groove application, you really do not nail through the tounge, but slightly above the tounge ,down at a 45 degree angle , catching the back side edge. It helps to pre drill for the nailing process!
I hadn't heard the term "Nickel Gap". We did use a bit of T&G when we built Mom & Dad's house. So, yes, hidden fasteners. A couple of walls were made with T&G natural wood, pine in my room, cedar in my brother's room. I don't believe, however, there was sheet rock behind the wood. I think it was just bare wood on the 2x4 studs. Vertical wainscoting in the dining room, and unfortunately I don't remember how it was applied. I'll have to look to see whether there is a step down or not.
Spencer I have a question about the snipe,and another on horizontal joints. Can you hide the snipe behind crown and baseboard (God bless the caulker😬),and can you use a half lap on end to end seams? We use soft maple for faceframes,and typical snipe is 3-5 inches from both ends. We build 3-4 islands per year with ship-lap,gloss black is a nightmare to hide nails behind. Another fantastic tutorial! I hope it falls out of style from a pure viewer's perspective. Sleek can turn shabby in a short amount of time lol.
A lot of this product was installed on ceilings, so nowhere to hide the snipe aside from cutting it off. This MDF moves a ton. So I avoid any scarf joints and long runs. On long runs I incorporate another piece of trim or beam running perpendicular to break up the expansion and contraction.
Hopefully you are still checking this video. Any suggestions on a wholesaler for 3/4inch MDF T/G Nickel Gap for the ceilings in a 2500sqFt home. Google, Lowe’s, HD have all failed me thus far, crazy how hard it is to buy this stuff without insider connections.
Fantastic video!!! I bought Nickle Gap by chance specifically because I liked the true tongue and groove. Your video showed I made the right choice. Putting it on the ceiling between beams in an architectural ceiling is not going to be a problem. But there are gables on the ceiling ends. Normally you start at the bottom and work up. On a gable end, that seems like it would be hard to do using Nickle gap because of the tongue and groove. Do you have to start at the top and work down instead? Thanks!
Just found your video. Thanks for a good explanation of these two products. I've come across product called nickel gap that is shiplap, not tongue in groove. I installed a tongue in groove ceiling (cedar) on an enclosed porch and I preferred it because except for the last board that was face nailed, no nails were visible. I have been considering shiplap for a future project, but now I think I will go with the tongue in groove nickel gap if I can find it. I still prefer not to see or have to fill nail holes.
The owner before me installed natural pine tongue & groove carsiding. It looks nice, but I'm having a lot of trouble finding replacement panels. Hancock Lumber is only wholesale. Their IL distributor, Menard, is trying to get some but they can't just order it for some reason. It doesn't match up well with what they carry in stock.
Great video. Will be doing this next spring once we finish moving in. My question is none of the large box stores seem to know what this is and can't get it for me. I live in northern virginia, do you know of any manufacturers that ship this product? thanks
Id rather have the nickel gap in T n G.Went to HD this morning and they have listed nickel gap but with the rabbet groove which I don't want. This is what Im seeing. I'll try the lumber yard.
I did nickel-gap at my church in "foyer" a couple years ago, first time. Last week did a 13'w×9'ht, both Menard's supplies. Just side job handyman type Diy/er , job switching
I hate the way they put the shoulder on the front of the Nickel Gap. It leaves a visible crack along with the gap. If they would eliminate the shoulder on the front of the tongue and use the shoulder on the back for the spacing it would do away with the crack. That is one advantage of the shiplap. The crack is not visible, only the gap like it is supposed to.
agreed! why not have both! shiplap in the front, nickel gap in the back. i don't see the point in the shoulder at the front and means you can't 'fudge' your gaps
Great video. Really explain everything about shiplap. I am going to install a16F ×7 1/4".on the bedroom wall.The wall is 8F H. 16F W. Its nikcle lab and MDF.I am planning to start putting them from top the wall to the bottom. Do you have any suggestions 🤔 Is it the right way to put it? Thank you.
When installing shiplap or nicklegap horizontally on a wall that requires joints in it do you stagger the joints? It looks like you installed them with all the joints at the same length. Is there a proper way or is it personal preference.
Great video, but, i would like to know what size nails you are using? I will be installing tongue and groove horizontally over 80 year old wall wood. thanks again for the great video.
So much Information on one video so I'm definitely gonna rewind and listen closely BUT!!! What I did get out of this lesson is that YOUR ONE OF FEW CARPENTERS THAT CARES ABOUT HIS FINAL FINISH LOOK. My hats off to you Dear Sir. Peace and love from Texas.
What an absolute professional. I am an amateur DIY, and I learned what I needed to learn with respect to putting up some pine tongue and groove stuff. But you go beyond and enter into a realm of pure perfection and art. Thanks for this great lesson.
And as a former residential house painter…I would highly recommend not using semi-gloss paint in darks colours! The flatter the paint, the better it looks. And today’s matte paints are high quality, washable, and easy to touch up. :)
Interior I only use Semigloss. If exterior I use semi gloss in a darker tree in house. Semi gloss shows off light so much better and is durable more water resistant.
@@mikewhite9818 ugh..semi-gloss is not nice on interiors. You will see every bit that drywallers did not get perfect. Never for walls and ceilings. Only on trim.
@@empressche333 I use semi gloss on interiors for better light utilization. Sometimes I do have to use two coats to improve paint coverage. The second coat goes a long way to hide imperfections. If one looked real hard some flaws still remain but is over shadowed by huge improvement in light night and day. It is also a tougher paint little less likely to be damaged with scratches and user clean up of spills and marks much improved.
Semi-gloss is for your high lights- doors, casing, base and crown. If you want to put it on an entire wall, I hope they live close to you. Because you'll be doing call backs for a long time.
Great rundown. I actually used nickels to establish the groove (reveal) in shiplap to get the nickel gap look. Boards are horizontal and air-nailed to studs so no inconsistencies. The cost of premilled t&g was double that of rabeted. Used 3/4 pine from a mill, so the wood was VERY consistent. Also got longer lengths custom cut to wall lengths so there are NO butt joints. After painting I wanted the knots to eventually bleed through. This wood was not heavily knotted. But the mill did deliver paint ready boards. I used a sprayed on primer and sprayed the finish in a satin Navahoe White. It came out beautiful. Now, 2 years later the knot bleed thru is a nice homey feature.
Apply varnish to knot before painting to limit bleed thru
@@RJ-sr5dv I actually wanted the knot bleed thru. Took a couple of years but looks really nice now.
Here in Arizona we don't do a lot of shiplap, but when I do, I do like the MDF. However, I usually install AND paint. To me it is easier to sand the whole project, with a cordless sander, after installation. To me it saves a lot of time instead of doing each board by itself. God bless, great video! 🙏🏻👍🏻👊🏻
Take a drink every time he drops the board demonstration.
Spencer, for appearing to be so young you sure seem to have a lot of knowledge about your profession. You should have a Million subscribers, every one that views your content should subscribe. I have learned and been made aware of so much knowledge and information about woodworking and how to do a much better job at my tasks. Much of what you teach us, many others do not know and therefore do not share. God bless you keep up the great work and keep us educated.
My entire career was built off inconsistencies. Tweeking, prying, leveling, planeing, adjusting but mostly cussing, under my breath. And
then came MDF. Good product that takes away the tweeking, sanding, adjusting, etc.
God forbid this house has a roof leak, AC shut down for days or rising water.
Anyway, good video.
Are you saying you approve of MDF for this application, but sanding it is a mistake?
@@vidpie I'm just old school. I'm sure that job was way easier using MDF than wood. If you have to sand down MDF more than a piece of paper then something is wrong with the installation because it is consistent in thickness.
I have had an mdf board (bare) sitting in a garage for years. Hot, cold, humid. Still looks brand new. IMO mdf is fine as long as it does not physically contact water.
@@Faruk651lol. You mean like a kitchen or bathroom where it's most popular to put shiplap?
Great video! I’ve done miles of this stuff in only solid pine and poplar. No finger joints. Your right it’s tricky if you don’t have solid strategies for dealing with it. I think this stuff is fun to do. Because I’ve used this type of material I always use glue. Acts like a liquid shim. If the framing is parallel to the material I’ll glue and screw up strips of 3/4ply 16oc to nail and glue into. On the wider stuff, I’ll true the boards with a track saw and router. The gaps can be inconsistent so I always have spacers cut up. A case for sanding after install, I’ve done rooms with the roughy side out, to then have the customer ask it to be smooth, after filling all the nail holes, a hard pad on a Festool Rotex made really quick work of flattening everything to the point it looked milled. I definitely agree that sanding everything before you put it up is a great guarantee the painter will make you work shine. Using MDF looks really fast compared to my experiences.
Fantastic information. I wouldn’t have even considered using MDF.
And your clear and concise instructions comparing and contrasting on the processes is really helping me make my mind up.
I’d much rather use T&G nickel gap using MDF eliminating exposed nail holes.
There is a product from Homedepot that is basically ship-lap - BUT - the gap between boards can be TWO different widths, as the overlap is different on each side. Kind-of convenient ( except when you don't notice it, and accidentally have uneven gaps in an occasional place ).
Fantastic and educational video. Also very encouraging to see people who actually CARE about what they are doing. No idea what you charge but I'm sure you're worth every dime.
Every nickel*
I agree with the mdf over wood!
People give mdf a bad name it’s better then wood in some cases. That’s way flooring doesn’t come in long lengths.
I have installed tons of Cedar and Pine tongue and groove on walls and ceilings.
it’s so hard to work with cups, twist, cracking, knots falling out and the tongue is not fitting because the woods swelled too much just a nightmare
Hi Spencer, I am aware that a lot of your houses in the USA are temperature control environments. In Australia very few houses are, so to ensure the longevity of the MDF, every time you cut it you should seal it. I normally use a premier-seal one coat, if you don't then down the road you will find the MDF acts as a wick and will pull in any and all humidity, moisture or water it can find. Yes it might take a few years but once it starts to swell there is not stopping it, other than to replace it.
Interesting...I've been scoffed at a lot for doing that to the backs and cut ends of mdf trim, but it doesn't make sense to me to have a sponge sitting there waiting to soak up whatever liquids or vapors are spilled on it. I dunno perhaps for where I live it's a major waste of time
Exactly right about the thicker material hiding old wall stud inconsistency. I redid an old 1,000 sq ft cottage and if I had used 1/2" stuff it would have been wavy unless I put an extra backer behind it. I wanted 8" T&G...started looking at pine, but ended up going with MDF and because the quality of the real wood stuff was picked through, knotted, bent and dinged up. No regrets.
Hi Spencer, I saw those boards needlessly attack you and it was clearly unprovoked. Let me know if you need a witness when you nail those guys in court. 🤣🤣 Another great video.
I’m a witness too! Nail those guys to the wall!!! 😀
😂😂😂😂😂
Great overview. I'm looking to plank my kitchen and family room ceilings. One thing you my have missed... when installing planking that runs parallel to the ceiling joists, you will need nailer strips perpendicular to them to permit a good install. With nickel gap they lock together between the parts nailed to the strips, whereas shiplap will float between the sections nailed to the nailer strips and may warp over time.
Another benefit I see is the nickel gap *may* be easier to remove in the event you need to do so. My bathroom sits above one side of my kitchen and should I ever have a pipe leak, it would have to be pulled to get to the underside of that bathroom, so my plan is to use more expensive thin-shank screws in that area and not nail. That way, I can easily remove the sections needed.
Question (if you see this)... since you recommend sanding the pre-primed boards before install and I completely agree, is there any advantage to also pre-painting them on smaller installs? I'm only doing a couple ceilings, as mentioned above, and it may be an advantage to pre-paint for me and it would keep the reveal groves in better shape. Paint tends to fill in narrow gaps causing inconsistency.
Ok, first I wanna thank you for being meticulous and doing your job correctly. Too many people out there saying “that’s good enough“.
Secondly I want your advice. I’m going to do a small wall and shiplap and hang cast-iron skillet’s on that wall. Do you recommend yellow pine instead of MDF because of the density? Thanks for your videos.
MDF will work just fine and paint up better. Pine you will see the grain through the paint.
I’m in North Carolina. Never heard tong and grove called nickel gap. It’s cool to see how the same products have different names.
Great work and great content.
Thanks
Nickel Gap refers to the gap, or reveal, you see. Some have bevels, some are square, but it's t&g anywhere you go. Could be 3/32"gap, 1/4" gap whatever gap you want. I think, but not positive, nickle gap is 1/8".
I have installed solid pine tongue and groove 16 footers and like you say they are almost impossible to install. I've not installed the MDF but I can definitely agree with your assessment that it's much more dimensionally stable. I have ripped down some 1/4"sheets of MDF to make a faux nickel gap in it turns out fairly well when I use a gauge for spacing and I do a slight round over so that the corners aren't snagged or damaged as easily.
T&G Pine ,especially on a vaulted ceiling, is a complete nightmare requiring lots of labor and perseverance. MDF is the way to go. Unfortunately many customers LOVE that wood grain so be prepared to fight the Devil Pine. Ju$t make it worth your while.
On my real wood jobs, I take a scrap 2x and nail ahead of a bow or non locking piece, I use clamps turned backwards to push against the 2x and the t&g to press it in place then nail. Works well with pine/spruce porch ceilings as well. It’s amazing how impossible a piece may seem til you get the clamps out. Goes right in. May cost me an hour over a 250-300sqft area. IMO, totally worth it
great style. easy to watch. no drama. no performance. good info.
We used ship lap in agricultural buildings. It was always fairly green pine. We installed the ship lap with the joint tight. The “nickel gap” look came over time as the wood shrank. But it also gives room for wood movement.
This is essentially nullified in mdf
Same here put it up wet and tight, drys out perfect.
Both are better than Nickelback
Nickelback is better at being annoying 😒
Most under rated band ever
People complain about Nickelback because they haven’t heard of Dimetop
🤣🤣🤣
🤣😂🤣
Great video, especially since shiplap is so popular nowadays. As a DIYer and hobby woodworker, I love your videos man. Clear, relevant and valuable information. Also, its clear you take immense pride in your work and it shows in the quality of the result. Keep em coming!
I work as a grader in a sawmill making these boards out of spf. We much prefer to make 116&wp4 pattern, but penny gap or nickelgap are the next best!
You’re a good man Spencer, giving all that consideration for the painters.
Great explanation. I've seen some guys use actual nickels to space 1x's during installation...you know who you are.
I just got done with a big shiplap job in a basement.. 2 full rooms and a closet all stain grade poplar shiplap. Looks great, Mitered the outside corners but it was a bear. Now wondering if I should have glued! Oops.
Yep
Thanks so much Spencer, I do custom woodworking but haven't done shiplap. Of all the videos I've reviewed today, yours is it absolute best primer on the subject. Great Job! I was not aware of Nickel Back, but will certainly choose that for the installation.
Wow I appreciate all the explanation and detail! I will be taking on my first shiplap project in a small half-bath this month. Glad I found this one! You raised a new thing to consider in using a thin plywood which may show imperfections in the wall not being smooth. I may look at a 3/4 tongue and groove now.
I’ve installed several nickel gap “rabbeted” ship lap that has a tongue and grove incorporated set up on it. It’s and MDF product made by Alexandria MDF products.
As a small millwork producer, I love to hear what everybody likes and dislikes! Latest craze for me to run has been flooring that is used as ceiling and wall covering. Full rough face reclaimed barnwood, personally not my cup of tea but I make what the client wants. I can explain snipe in a video much better than a description typed out.
Spencer, do you have a custom producer near you or just getting it from the big yards? I only ask because it seems like the small custom guys are disappearing all over the place.
My wholesaler is koetter woodworking. They will also custom produce whatever I need…for a price. Lol
Very informative, Spencer. And a good demo of your quick reflexes there toward the beginning of the vid!
Great video, I learned a lot, thank you. Thinking about doing this in my house and think I like the nickel gap look better. MDF is the way to go!
Wow! Thanks tons for sharing your experience and knowledge. You’re saving me a lot of headache. Just doing a 11’ X 6’ bathroom so small job but I was just about to buy shiplap. I’ve done a ceiling in tongue n groove and it turned out great. Wife was telling me shiplap for this project so I was thinking it would be just as easy. Nope! Your explanations are eye openers! Thanks again! 👍💪
Excellent information. You clearly helped me to decide on the MDF nickel gap for the install I am preparing for. A 10’ x14’ wall installation (possibly ceiling as well) with a horizontal install over studs in a below-ground location. The basement CMU walls have been coated for water proofing, bonded closed cell insulation over the CMU and then studs abutting the insulation board, with anchored bottom plate to concrete and top plate anchored to overhead floor joists.
How did it go?
How did you attach to the CMU?
Hopefully you back prime your mdf as its really susceptible to moisture common to cold basements as well as a final coat on all surfaces.
Awesome vid! Curious on how you address inside and outside corners particularly with horizontally installed nickel gap. Thanks again
Thanks for a great explanation and insights on this product and installation , love following your channel , have learned tons so far
Thanks Spencer! Your videos are always a must see!
Our nickel gap in the Detroit market is all shiplap style, I haven't seen any here that is T&G. I definitely see the advantage of the T&G type, now I wish we had it here!
Menards sells it.
I glue and face nailed my shiplap. the trick to not seeing nail holes is overfilling them and sanding it flush. The brad nail mushrooms the surface of the board so I glue sandpaper to a piece of board and use that to sand it flush. It looks perfect after paint but is a lot of work. thanks for the vid.
I'm with you. The holes can totally disappear with the right prep and technique, but I don't expect most carpenters to go to the extent you and I do to make that happen.
If using a spackle I think that since it's water based it will raise the grain of the wood fibers and require more sanding. i like to put a little oil primer in the nail holes to seal the wood before filling them.
Great video. Thanks for looking out for painters. You are as professional as it gets. Continued success.
Good to know! Would love to see the final product painted and all … 👍🏼
I’ve been a carpenter/ contractor for 38 years that specialized in foundation and framing, I’m now kinda retired an I just wanted to say I was kinda like you meaning you set yourself apart from everyone else by doing quality work and you will always get quality jobs. Great video brother! Also unfortunately I’m from california, it actually was a beautiful state and where the moneys at but not so much anymore.
Love this guys videos probably my favorite guy to watch on you tube and his van set up is off the hook!
I noticed that the greatest singular denominator to grow an already popular UA-cam channel is "frequency of uploads". If Spencer were to upload several videos per week he would most likely explode in subscribers. The bonus for him would be a handsome UA-cam income. Especially given the genre he belongs to/family friendly.
One video a week has been my sweet spot. To much content and it’s more than the loyal subscriber base will reasonably consume in a week.
I always try to find MDF for the same reason but it's hit and miss who carries it around me. The one big issue I have is with damage done in transport. So many places use open flatbed trucks to deliver and will deliver when it's raining. Rain + straps + MDF + water based primer = mess. Have to be very demanding with the supplier to pack and deliver it appropriately. Learned the hard way doing a fireplace bump out similar to that (except horizontal install) and had to basically skim coat the entire thing after a clean up sanding.
Agreed on the damage during delivery. Often see a stack of 16 foot trim turned into 8 footers by running the tip of the forks down the side.
See a lot of difference in the quality of the MDF also....some is crumbly junk while other is much better (often denser)....also as in the video, the surface finish varies.
Great instruction. One of the best explanatory videos I've watched. Thank you.
We are doing a remodel on a small house, and after your video, we will likely do MDF T & G Nickel Gap for the ceiling. We have areas in the ceiling where we need to butt the raw ends of the MDF boards. What are your tips for getting a nice job of butting the board ends? Or do you have a video on that?
so watching you install vertically, what are you nailing to? Since many joints are in between studs. Are you just pinning the board till the glue dries?
In eastern NC its almost always rabbited shiplap made from primed finger jointed pine. T&G i see mostly is clear finish pine or stained and installed in ceilings. Haven't seen either in an MDF yet but get a healthy dose of it in bigger crown and closet build ins. DB
One thing you didn't mention is that MDF is dimensionally stable but wood must be acklimated before it is installed. I made this mistake with some tongue and groove knotty pine that I installed on the ceiling of bedroom at my beachfront cottage, Three weeks later I was sitting on the couch and heard POP! POP! POP! as the wood literally blew off. I pulled the nails and reinstalled the knotty pine as before. It had gained 1" in width over the 12' width of the bedroom.
Super interesting anecdote, many thanks
In a perfect world (new build of course) the framers put in horizontal blocks so you have something to nail into when running vertical boards.
Then plumbers and electricians will hate you for all those horizontal blocking
@@cruzmissileoutdoors I do blocking every 4 feet and I run a 2x4 piece vertically between the framing so there is at least 1.5 inches behind the blocking to run wires. If a plumber needs to drill a few extra holes or I need to remove one or two of the blocks to run pipes vertically it isn’t a big deal and isn’t much extra work.
@@screaminpotato yes, placing them on edge gives space for electrical. Unless the wall is over 10ft, I don't place perlin blocking. The 2 areas I run blocking is where cabinets will go so that cabinet guys don't have to fish for wall studs. I'll do 2x6 blocking for both lower and upper cabinets.
What's lumber prices like in your area, we are still paying $13 for 2x4-16
There is one way to avoid the surface nails with ship lap. Put
it on upside down,, or inside out,,, seriously. Ship lap is an exterior cladding. It was rare to see it used on interior walls back in the day. The counter drainage direction of the rabbit sheds water, the single line of nails allows for expansion and you can "tweek" the course to make up for variations in elevation. On the interior you don't have to worry about water so rabbit orientation is no longer a problem. Reversing the rabbit let's you blind nail and when its all said and done your customer cant tell the difference (depending on the milling profile of the rabbits). Just saying. It's unconventional but if you can't have face nails and you don't have the option of t & g available or you have to mill the material yourself (with a good table saw, L-fence, dado stack and trim router you can make up a lot of ship lap in a hurry. T & G really requires a shapper and expensive tooling to get the job done. Although I have made it with a heavy duty 3hp router table set up) it's an out of the box idea taboo that the purists' will howl over, buts its only interior eye candy any way. Give it a shot. Call it French cleat interior cladding or something if you have too. 99.99999% of the people that see it won't have a clue.
Can we assume the same considerations for exterior finishes? Is one better for weatherproofing?
Best shiplap video on youtube
Most folks doing "shiplap" don't even know what a rabbet joint is and their just butting 2 boards together with a small gap
I like that dust cover for the saw.
How do you possibly have enough time between working and making these videos? Dot get me wrong, the videos are great, and you are very knowledgeable about carpentry! Thank you very much for the videos. There's just not enough time in a day for things that need to be done for me, much less, making a video. So, thanks much for the videos!
It's not easy. Thankfully now I have a great video editor.
I run lots of exterior stained porch ceilings. The strength of tongue and groove is way better in every way. It’ll stay exactly how you install it
I had no idea that nickel gap existed. Honestly, the appearance looks so much like shiplap that I wouldn't know the difference (installed). I wouldn't use either as I hate the look, unless it's in an out building (barn, shed). It brings down the look of a home, unless you are living in a barn or shed.
As a painter I am curious if you ever pre-sand wood baseboard and casing stock prior to installing trim. Woods such as pine, cedar, fir, and spruce develop 'mill glaze' as the milling blades melt the dried sap within the wood leaving an impervious coating when the wood and sap cool. Coatings don't soak through the glaze, and they tend not to adhere to it well. As an example, cedar shakes are renowned for peeling due to mill glaze unless sanded completely or allowed to significantly weather before painting or staining. To produce a high quality product I have to; thoroughly sand the installed trim, clean it, prime it, fill holes, sand again, clean again, caulk gaps, and finally paint it with at least 2 finish coats. A carpenter who knocks a couple steps off my laborious schedule would never want for cold beer at quitting time on Fridays! Thanks
Nice job mate, I think that’s the most I’ve seen you drop stuff in one video! Lol. And not one snigger, any bloopers??
Very informative! Your patience with those boards was outstanding. I would've been cursing every time one fell 😅
Your clients are lucky to have you.
your "Nickel gap" reminds me a lot of the old "Dutch-lap" siding that used to be used on buildings in the midWest.
Man, I'm a little bit about the overkill but I use adhesive behind both at any time regardless of backing. I believe the one job I did vertical Poplar T&G nailed to sheeted plywood walls I still used adhesive 😂
I could see using the boards as an accent wall, but they went a little crazy with it everywhere. Two questions. 1) Do you miter outside corners and 2) why were all your butt joints lined up on the ceiling? Great job btw, I am an admirer of your talent.
Great video. Very informative. I've only done one project thus far using ship lap (MDF), but you gave me great information on both options. Thank you!
Damn! I'm glad I watched your video! I'm thinking about doing a ship lap with stained wood but I might have to re-think everything after watching this. Thank you for sharing!
So much knowledge for someone your age. Thank you for sharing it with us.
Great video, thank you. Do you put the baseboards and trim on after the installation? Is the trim installed on top of the nickel gap or ate they butted up to one another? Thanks in Advance.
Look at this photograph... everytime I do it makes me laugh... and what the hell was on Bobby's head?
Well we all just wannabe big rock stars
And live in hill top houses driving 15 cars
Tons of things in this video that I didn't think about. Thanks for the info!
Love your videos. Keep up the good work. Glad to see you finally stepped up to a chop saw hood. They work great for keeping the house, and your lungs, just that much more dust free.
Thoroughly enjoyed this video, keep up the great work 👍
I’m doing an install with nickel gap on an interior gable ceiling. Would it be a bad idea to use staples to secure the boards? Is it ok to do the install and then paint the ceiling? Thanks again for the video. Very helpful!
On a tounge and groove application, you really do not nail through the tounge, but slightly above the tounge ,down at a 45 degree angle , catching the back side edge. It helps to pre drill for the nailing process!
No need to pre drill when using a power nailer!
I'm currently doing T&G pine and when i buy it I go thru the rack and pick the best pieces out
👋 spencer
Thanks for all your teaching
Love your tool review
Very honest 👍
I hadn't heard the term "Nickel Gap". We did use a bit of T&G when we built Mom & Dad's house. So, yes, hidden fasteners. A couple of walls were made with T&G natural wood, pine in my room, cedar in my brother's room.
I don't believe, however, there was sheet rock behind the wood. I think it was just bare wood on the 2x4 studs. Vertical wainscoting in the dining room, and unfortunately I don't remember how it was applied. I'll have to look to see whether there is a step down or not.
Spencer I have a question about the snipe,and another on horizontal joints.
Can you hide the snipe behind crown and baseboard (God bless the caulker😬),and can you use a half lap on end to end seams?
We use soft maple for faceframes,and typical snipe is 3-5 inches from both ends.
We build 3-4 islands per year with ship-lap,gloss black is a nightmare to hide nails behind.
Another fantastic tutorial!
I hope it falls out of style from a pure viewer's perspective.
Sleek can turn shabby in a short amount of time lol.
A lot of this product was installed on ceilings, so nowhere to hide the snipe aside from cutting it off.
This MDF moves a ton. So I avoid any scarf joints and long runs. On long runs I incorporate another piece of trim or beam running perpendicular to break up the expansion and contraction.
Hopefully you are still checking this video. Any suggestions on a wholesaler for 3/4inch MDF T/G Nickel Gap for the ceilings in a 2500sqFt home. Google, Lowe’s, HD have all failed me thus far, crazy how hard it is to buy this stuff without insider connections.
My wholesaler is Koetter Woodworking. They may have a retailer near you.
I remodeled my bathroom and used shiplap around the new tub surround instead of drywall. Saved me a bunch if time and looks great
Fantastic video!!! I bought Nickle Gap by chance specifically because I liked the true tongue and groove. Your video showed I made the right choice. Putting it on the ceiling between beams in an architectural ceiling is not going to be a problem. But there are gables on the ceiling ends. Normally you start at the bottom and work up. On a gable end, that seems like it would be hard to do using Nickle gap because of the tongue and groove. Do you have to start at the top and work down instead? Thanks!
Great info. Any thoughts for exterior siding installation. Vertical and horizontal. Thanks for the video.
Just found your video. Thanks for a good explanation of these two products. I've come across product called nickel gap that is shiplap, not tongue in groove. I installed a tongue in groove ceiling (cedar) on an enclosed porch and I preferred it because except for the last board that was face nailed, no nails were visible. I have been considering shiplap for a future project, but now I think I will go with the tongue in groove nickel gap if I can find it. I still prefer not to see or have to fill nail holes.
The owner before me installed natural pine tongue & groove carsiding. It looks nice, but I'm having a lot of trouble finding replacement panels. Hancock Lumber is only wholesale. Their IL distributor, Menard, is trying to get some but they can't just order it for some reason. It doesn't match up well with what they carry in stock.
Great video. Will be doing this next spring once we finish moving in. My question is none of the large box stores seem to know what this is and can't get it for me. I live in northern virginia, do you know of any manufacturers that ship this product? thanks
Id rather have the nickel gap in T n G.Went to HD this morning and they have listed nickel gap but with the rabbet groove which I don't want. This is what Im seeing. I'll try the lumber yard.
I did nickel-gap at my church in "foyer" a couple years ago, first time. Last week did a 13'w×9'ht, both Menard's supplies. Just side job handyman type Diy/er , job switching
...would it be easier to paint pin stripes on the wall?
I hate the way they put the shoulder on the front of the Nickel Gap. It leaves a visible crack along with the gap. If they would eliminate the shoulder on the front of the tongue and use the shoulder on the back for the spacing it would do away with the crack. That is one advantage of the shiplap. The crack is not visible, only the gap like it is supposed to.
agreed! why not have both! shiplap in the front, nickel gap in the back. i don't see the point in the shoulder at the front and means you can't 'fudge' your gaps
Great video. Really explain everything about shiplap. I am going to install a16F ×7 1/4".on the bedroom wall.The wall is 8F H. 16F W. Its nikcle lab and MDF.I am planning to start putting them from top the wall to the bottom. Do you have any suggestions 🤔 Is it the right way to put it? Thank you.
When installing shiplap or nicklegap horizontally on a wall that requires joints in it do you stagger the joints? It looks like you installed them with all the joints at the same length. Is there a proper way or is it personal preference.
Thanks for the great information! I had no idea there was a difference between the two.
Love the tool time description of the sanding tool…. Good tips tho.
Spencer, have you ever used the Windsor One products? Wondering how straight and uncupped their 16' lengths are.
I've never used it personally.
Love your videos man and I really dug your list of books...was surprised you have read the Enneagram. Anyway I ordered Margins. Thanks for the videos.
Great video, but, i would like to know what size nails you are using? I will be installing tongue and groove horizontally over 80 year old wall wood. thanks again for the great video.