@@jaranarmThis is one problem with Wilt, everything was personal and about him. Notice he isn't worried about working with Arizin to get Arizin his shots in Arizin's comfort zone, or about team goals when criticized, he is worried about Wilt. The other problem is that Russell really was that good. Wilt v. everyone else wins over 80% of his playoff series (a better percentage than Michael Jordan), Russell and the Celtics just have his number (and, to be fair, everyone else's as well). I don't buy the idea that the other Celtics carried Russell, they won with great defense and bad offense. So Cousy in particular, and all the other high scoring, low efficiency types (Heinsohn, Havlicek, etc.) weren't creating great offense. Now they did have other good defenders (Sharman and Lotscutoff early, Sanders, KC Jones, and Havlicek later) but that isn't what most people are talking about when they talk about how loaded the Celtics were, they are talking about how many offensive threats they had ignoring that most of those players were inefficient chuckers at that end (other than Sharman, Sam Jones, and Bailey Howell).
But sure, let's talk about your point. In the 88-89 season, Tex Winter and Jackson were in the team, but there was no triangle offense in place yet. We saw the triangle offense in the 89-90 season when Jackson was head coach and it was only fully instituted in the 90-91 season. Pippen and Grant were nothing but role players in 1989. Cartwright being called an All star veteran is not untrue, but still funny. The dude was an all star in his rookie season and didn't come close to being an all star again in the 6 seasons before he joined the Bulls. Craig Hodges was mostly a playoff choker, but his 1989 run wasn't bad and was by far his best on the Bulls. With all that being said, of course it's an organization effort to get the team past any round, but that was still an immense carry job by Jordan. That team was never supposed to beat the Cavs in the first place. There were lots of talent in several teams during the 90s. Trying to paint Jordan as some very fortunate dude and everyone else as underdogs is hilarious. If someone has to carry a team in multiple occasions, then the team is not THAT good to begin with. In the 90s you didn't need stacked rosters to reach the finals. That's true. It was an Era with a lot more teams and more balanced, with multiple teams having Hofers, but almost no team having 3+ Hofers like in previous decades. That doesn't mean the Era was weak. It would have been weak if Jordan was playing in a team filled with Hofers while no other team had more than 1. 1998 was not even close to being one of the most watered down years. It was literally a year with a ton of great squads at the top(Bulls, the best Pacers team I've ever watched, the Heat, Sonics, Lakers, Spurs and also the best Jazz team I've watched). All of them fighting for the ring. That Lakers team had Eddie Jones, a young Kobe, Nick van Exel, Campbell, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher and Horry. Imo, the deepest team in the league. Without Pippen, the Bulls don't beat the Pacers, that's true. When did Jordan win anything without playing with the most talented personnel? In 1997 and 1998. Both supporting casts severely underperformed in the playoffs, mainly in 1997. He still carried them to a ring. Despite having great teams in 1992 and 1993, the Bulls still lose both rings if Jordan hadn't put up some all time great performances. . If Jordan only dominates on defense, they Bulls lose. If he doesn't carry the team scoring wise, they lose. Plain and simple. The Bulls were constructed in a way and Jordan did what he was supposed to do and asked to do. With a different roster, let's say, with another great scorer besides him, I doubt he would have taken the amount of shots he did. But he didn't play with another great scorer or someone who demanded double teams. I don't see why a guard like Jordan would also focus only on defense when he was the best defensive SG in the league while putting up 30+ points per game. Pippen never ran the offense, what the hell are you on about? Nor he was the defensive anchor of that team. And no, Pippen didn't guard the best players either.@@jaranarm
@jaranarm are you @lazeruss by any chances lol
I am not, although I knew of him. I have never spoken to him either. He was around on the internet long before me or Wilt Chamberlain Archive were.
@@jaranarmThis is one problem with Wilt, everything was personal and about him. Notice he isn't worried about working with Arizin to get Arizin his shots in Arizin's comfort zone, or about team goals when criticized, he is worried about Wilt.
The other problem is that Russell really was that good. Wilt v. everyone else wins over 80% of his playoff series (a better percentage than Michael Jordan), Russell and the Celtics just have his number (and, to be fair, everyone else's as well). I don't buy the idea that the other Celtics carried Russell, they won with great defense and bad offense. So Cousy in particular, and all the other high scoring, low efficiency types (Heinsohn, Havlicek, etc.) weren't creating great offense. Now they did have other good defenders (Sharman and Lotscutoff early, Sanders, KC Jones, and Havlicek later) but that isn't what most people are talking about when they talk about how loaded the Celtics were, they are talking about how many offensive threats they had ignoring that most of those players were inefficient chuckers at that end (other than Sharman, Sam Jones, and Bailey Howell).
But sure, let's talk about your point. In the 88-89 season, Tex Winter and Jackson were in the team, but there was no triangle offense in place yet. We saw the triangle offense in the 89-90 season when Jackson was head coach and it was only fully instituted in the 90-91 season. Pippen and Grant were nothing but role players in 1989. Cartwright being called an All star veteran is not untrue, but still funny. The dude was an all star in his rookie season and didn't come close to being an all star again in the 6 seasons before he joined the Bulls. Craig Hodges was mostly a playoff choker, but his 1989 run wasn't bad and was by far his best on the Bulls. With all that being said, of course it's an organization effort to get the team past any round, but that was still an immense carry job by Jordan. That team was never supposed to beat the Cavs in the first place. There were lots of talent in several teams during the 90s. Trying to paint Jordan as some very fortunate dude and everyone else as underdogs is hilarious. If someone has to carry a team in multiple occasions, then the team is not THAT good to begin with. In the 90s you didn't need stacked rosters to reach the finals. That's true. It was an Era with a lot more teams and more balanced, with multiple teams having Hofers, but almost no team having 3+ Hofers like in previous decades. That doesn't mean the Era was weak. It would have been weak if Jordan was playing in a team filled with Hofers while no other team had more than 1. 1998 was not even close to being one of the most watered down years. It was literally a year with a ton of great squads at the top(Bulls, the best Pacers team I've ever watched, the Heat, Sonics, Lakers, Spurs and also the best Jazz team I've watched). All of them fighting for the ring. That Lakers team had Eddie Jones, a young Kobe, Nick van Exel, Campbell, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher and Horry. Imo, the deepest team in the league. Without Pippen, the Bulls don't beat the Pacers, that's true. When did Jordan win anything without playing with the most talented personnel? In 1997 and 1998. Both supporting casts severely underperformed in the playoffs, mainly in 1997. He still carried them to a ring. Despite having great teams in 1992 and 1993, the Bulls still lose both rings if Jordan hadn't put up some all time great performances. . If Jordan only dominates on defense, they Bulls lose. If he doesn't carry the team scoring wise, they lose. Plain and simple. The Bulls were constructed in a way and Jordan did what he was supposed to do and asked to do. With a different roster, let's say, with another great scorer besides him, I doubt he would have taken the amount of shots he did. But he didn't play with another great scorer or someone who demanded double teams. I don't see why a guard like Jordan would also focus only on defense when he was the best defensive SG in the league while putting up 30+ points per game. Pippen never ran the offense, what the hell are you on about? Nor he was the defensive anchor of that team. And no, Pippen didn't guard the best players either.@@jaranarm