I really wish Items/Addons for both sides were either disabled or randomized too. Not really a chaotic mode if every lobby has the same item and top tier add ons
they DID say that the next version will have changes and the current one was just swooped in since so many people wanted it back. So im looking forward to your suggestions making it into 2.0 :)
i love chaos shuffle, i normally always use perk roulette. I would love if this could be a thing for anyone that desires in normal gamemodes as well. like an option in a loadout or something
God I wanted a build in randomizer for the load out for years at this point. They already have the stuff to do this, I don't see how adding one more button somewhere next to the perks is so hard for BHVR
For sure. And adding a really good incentive for it, like 500% bonus BP for randomising your loadout? That would be SO healthy. It would give people more of an incentive to try something new and avoid the meta.
If people are frustrated about getting bad perks ( as killer or survivor) then they shouldn’t play that mode. Do you have any right to complain when you know what you’re signing up for?
Depends you can get mad if like you get something like Territorial 4 games in a row. So far my favorite this go around was Dramaturgy with No Mither I just laughed though.
exactly, why would you even care about things like balance in a mode where its literally randomised. You can just switch over and run a sweaty build in normal queue if you are genuinely upset at your luck
@@illitaret8780 once again I’d say it depends once in while yeah sure, if you on one of those awful stretches where it’s happening every game getting frustrated or mad is reasonable provided you don’t start sending out death threats or something.
@@illitaret8780 If you get tunneled/camped at a similar rate to that of getting a bad build in chaos shuffle ( and those things frustrate you) then yes I’d 100% agree.
That's the issue with DBD's design, in a nutshell. Getting tunneled, in terms of the entire game, isn't necessarily the end of the world - while the killer is focusing on you, your teammates are free to pursue objectives. But getting tunneled is rarely fun for the chosen victim, and if you die you get fuck all for it, even if your teammates manage to escape. Something about that needs to change. Tunneling isn't an issue, that's just how the game is meant to work. But getting tunneled and dying shouldn't make the player feel like they just got fuck all of their time invested.
I feel like another part of the reason people are so sweaty is because of the rank emblems and the MMR still being a thing in the mode, seeing as the only mode to NOT include the ranking system was 2v8 it just confuses me how BHVR wants to make modes like this for people to have fun, but still keep the system that alot of sweaty or comp dbd players care about in the modes, leading to people trying alot harder because they care alot more about their MMR than most players
@@romanlaton3921 because they want to brag about being red ranks and they want to brag and add Iri Rank Survivor/Killer to their video/stream titles like it still means something. Which to me makes about as much sense as adding #1 ranked or high mmr ranked like those are things you can see in game. You can't see your MMR anywhere and the only people who can see a leaderboard are people on pc and then it only takes in to account pc players so it's not even true.
I get why people bring cycle their frustrations onto the next players. You get one tough game and you assume the next one will be the same. Saying that, if you want less sweaty games, play less sweaty. I've been playing super casual, trying to get value out of my perks and often letting survivors escape and my games have been super relaxed. If you stop caring about ranking up then the overall game is much less sweaty
dbd is the only game I'm aware of where by design 1 'team' must win most matches, and said team gets frustrated if their winrate falls from 90% to 80%. I disliked Chaos Shuffle the first time around and haven't touched it this time since there isn't a tome, I'm just glad the queue times for normal dbd didn't get fucked
@@Them-e6t since dbd is an assymetrical game, to an extent yeah it should be more skewed to killers killing a bit more often to the kill rate that behaviour themseleves created, otherwise it wouldn't be a power role and people probably wouldnt be playing killer if 1 or 2 kills was the norm for killer. Survivor is also more balanced around individual escape rates than team ones
The best decision I made when playing killer is I stopped playing to win. Obviously I will still try but after going through my “sweaty phase” where I used to tunnel and get triggered from survivors tbagging at the gate deep down I started to get burnt out. Now i mainly meme and try to interact with survivors by giving them a head nod when i get stunned at a pallet as an example and try to have fun and if I win cool and if i don’t then gg go next.
Same, watched a video about how to have fun again where it said "say it with me now - FUCK THE GENS". Really made me care less if they get finished. Also, nod at the survivors that escape (if you go to the exit gate at all). Chasing them out the door is just more frustrating. Also, a killer "win" is now getting any kills - forget 4k. That's makes killer a lot more fun for me at least
It's a good idea, but I imagine people would bounce if they lost that round anyway. If your goal is to maximize your BPs during the 3x modifier, you sure as hell aren't gonna want to go again vs a strong killer/strong group of survivors.
Yeah I was bringing cakes and no items but having 4 matches in a row where the killer tunneled someone out at 5 gens im bringing map offerings and op items every game I guess.
@@YoshiiniteAs Scott said though it’s a feedback loop, a killer can choose not to tunnel and then get gen-rushed because no gen-slowdown. If you want to win, which it’s a pvp game so most people do, both sides have to play sweaty to counter each-other or risk playing casually and getting stomped on.
@@directorhail4881 If you're playing casually you shouldn't care about getting stomped, honestly. Why does it matter? if you play casually you're not expecting to win to begin with.
@@Yoshiinite You just sounded one-sided. You can literally apply the same concept to killer. “Survivors keep gen-rushing me so I guess I’ll tunnel since I have no gen defence, they don’t really give me much of a choice.” Scott already explained this in the video.
@@directorhail4881 I play killer in this mode and i don't give a crap if i win or lose, it is what it is, as long as i keep walking out with like 100-150k bloodpoints i'm happy
@@The-Doctor6969 Indeed. I didn't even know people were bitching about it until I saw the title of scott's video. I thought this mode was universally loved. I think killer mains specifically don't like it because they don't have their guaranteed pain res, corrupt, etc.
i think dbd players suck for constantly complaining that people are better at the game than them. if certain strategies are unfun to go against, then it's on bhvr to rework it to be more fun, instead of complaining that someone is using it and "being sweaty."
@@MrNigel117 This. Humans as a collective are fairly predictable in how they will react to certain things. Many humans play to win and anyone else having fun be damned. It’s up to a game designer to design the game in such a way where the winning strategy doesn’t turn the game into a bore fest for one or more players. In this case it’s up to BHVR to remove tunnelling and proxy camping as forms of slowdown while also not having the game balanced around having slow down perks.
Yeah I've noticed way more slugging and tunnelling compared to normal. When I've played killer though it's been a lot easier compared to normal as well.
The tunneling is crazy in CS, I get chased for nearly 2-3 minutes per game because killers refuse to give up on the one person they find. Then I see my solo Q teammates aren't touching gens. As soon as they down me, they shake their head and hump me and proxy camp for that 1 single kill, sometimes even at the cost of the other 3 escaping. It just makes Solo Q more miserable than it already is.
This is how I feel about survivors going crazy with the BNP and toolboxes In CS smh. I agree with the tunneling though. I played with my friends last night and I probably got tunneled every other game
I kept having survivors tbag and try to farm in chaos shuffle after 1 failed chase. It was cute the first time but now it makes me feel bored because I just wanna play normally.
stuff like this makes me wonder, "how many things will killer and survivors have basekit at the end of DBD's lifespan", because at some point you can guarantee therell be some form of basekit anti-tunnel outside of BT, and some form of anti genrush for killer
It's sad cos I've been duoing with my gf and we've just been running an okay medkit and an okay flashlight every game, and we've noticed a lot of our games will have the other two randoms equipping flashlights as well (I assume because flashlights are just fun to use and theres no guarantee of lightborn), so I haven't really been seeing the BNPs and syringes so it was really confusing to us why in more than half our games the killer hard tunneled someone out. I've just been using the flashlight to get saves on the person getting tunneled but it isn't enough most of the time. What you said makes sense, I can see why it might be an issue for killers to play normally, but damn I wish I could get just a few more games where I could chill instead of getting tunneled or watching my girlfriend get tunneled. It's so sad
it seems like a lack of responsibility whenever people go online and give anecdotes about survs/killers online. there's this endless cycle of the game makes killers do this which makes survs do this which makes killers do this- just don't be a shitty player and move on. I've also been duoing with a beamer and a medkit, and when I tell you, the tunneling is insane. But I dont go to my next match and bully the next killer. so idk reading ur message was really nice bc someone wasn't blaming someone else for once, but it's also sad that these types of players will always be at the whim of "but killer/survivor HARD so I have to tunnel/bully" ur playing chaos shuffle in an rng game losing is fine
Normal DBD, the survivors are dead. Events/Bloodrush. Im playing 1 of my 720+ 8th year cakes to "have fun" with the survivors. Play natural, hook em all twice, then farm/meme. Unless the survivors are very experienced, giving me a chance to test myself. Then yea il play naturally the entire trial. Yesterday, i downed all 4 survivors (Huntress) and allowed them to reset... Winning isnt everything. Winning isnt always fun. Also, killing everybody before mid game means you dont get many points! So it isnt even worth it!
Good for you, want a cookie? Some people play to win, it's what's fun for them and some play to mess around like run a meme build and don't really care about the BP
My guy your MMR isn't high them, I can't recall when was the last time my lobby didn't had 3 ds/otr/unbreakable, people with nasty medkits and toolboxes, midtier somewhat competent survivors, with no toolboxes or perks, take around 50 secs to pop a gen, good luck having a chase in less than 50 secs, that simply not happen unless u are playing with S tier killers
@Borr77 why would high mmr run crap perks like DS and Unbreakable everygame? If what your saying is true and it's "every game". Wouldn't you learn to not tunnle or leave a survivor on the ground? Why would you down the unhooked survivor to use Unbreakable to begin with???? Sounds counter productive you think?
Hmm. I follow your logic, but most killers are bringing the nastiest iri add-ons and feeling confident about tunnelling - so can’t say that survivor games have felt “easy” in this mode. Not in solo queue anyway.
Tbf most killers Iri add ons are garbage with very few exceptions. I have a better game playing with green/yellow add ons that I do with most of the killers Iri's.
My guy gens take about 50 secs to pop with somewhat mid tier competent survivors, now good luck trying to make a chase last less then that, unless u playing S tier killers
Yeah Scott covers this pretty well. It's survivor sided if killers play fair like Scott tries to. However in a true play to win style, killers have no incentive to do this because they know there is only a very tiny chance they will actually have any anti tunnel protection. So they trade their lack of slowdown for their ability to guarantee tunnel outs. As Scott said 'it's balanced but in the worst way possible'. Balance indeed does not equal fun.
I've been loving Chaos Shuffle as Huntress. In 99% of my games, I can usually keep up pretty well just by getting everyone to death hook first. I haven't noticed any super sweaty gameplay yet, either. I guess I'm just lucky. One thing I have definitely noticed is the abundance of syringes from the survivor side.
Honestly I don’t think it’s people trying to be sweaty, rather just bringing strong items and addons to give them some level of certainty amongst all the randomness.
Probably because you're good at survivor and bad at killer. I'm pretty good at both and I can tell you I play no perk bubba a lot and it's way way easier than playing as survivor perkless against a hardcore tunneler.
4 vs 16. also, i feel like survivor perk strengths are always downplayed for stupid reasons compared to killer perks. sure, slowdown is strong but it's limited. stealth and exhaustion perks are not limited at all.
I disagree as survivor tunnels are fun... I can 3-5 gen killer if they try to tunnel I can use skill and winning mind games and use map knowledge... if they want they loss the game... slow down makes macro game more important which is boring for survivor bc killer just goes to Gen by Gen a chase when someone is catch off position... prefer that they tunnel and win coin flip or condition player into downs but people don't want to think and make micro game more important
Those things should just be intrinsic rather than perks. If you're in a situation where survivors or killers "need" a particular type of perk in order to function properly... then that's a situation where those things need to just become baseline.
Was excited to try the mode, wasn't playing the first time around, and just about had it ruined for me. First three games I brought party streamers, and ended up tunneled out all 3 of those games immediately. Stuck with it, just with personal offerings instead, and it's been pretty dope. Really sucks people gotta play that way though.
1:24 well, you see, Dead by Daylight is like hockey: If the Rangers give the Islanders are hard time, that's obviously a problem for the Blue Jackets. How dare the Blue Jackets let the Islanders do what they did to the Rangers in _their_ game?!
In my experience with this mode out of 50 games 26 of them I was tunneled and slugged, same with my duo out of those 26 matches 10 of them I was humped on the ground by the killer... and my teammates just hide, refuse to unhook and refuse to do gens....
My teammates would sometimes get grabbed off gens by a killler with terror radius😭 and every second match I get to second hook stage with everyone alive. Solo que is just ridiculous most of the time. A lot of them don't care much about you when you're not their real life friend. A slug got picked up (wasn't hooked yet) at the cost of me getting to second hook stage...priorities
is it? i mean, i got a bunch of syringes or stuff like that, but didnt notice much difference other than that and it didnt help those people much anyway
For me personally ive been getting for the most part baby killers and when i play killer im up against bad survivors to the point where its not even fun feels like theres no mmr for me
@@Lazurikittie i noticed zero difference except i was having way more variety due to random perks. Genuinely refreshing after endless lobbies where you either run same boring meta or have to sweat bc you're guaranteed to be outperked.
It’s definitely obviously survivor sided. Just because of how much a killers perk matters. Wether or not you personally noticed a difference is irrelevant to the fact of the matter. You could just be bad lol (no offense) or your teammates are. I didn’t notice a difference when I tunneled survivors but I wouldn’t say that tunneling had no effect. When I brought syringes and bnps I only noticed a difference of my teammates were good. If they were then the match was super easy but if they sucked then it felt like a waste.
Honestly, the problem with chaos shuffle is the fundamental design of dbd; perks and items affect matches way more than they arguably should. I could bet that most people feel as if the perks carry more so than player skill or killer choice.
Ehmm i have won almost every match as a Killer but one time when i played slinger on Haddonfield i got Lethal, corrupt, pain res and noed so 😂 As a survivor, i barely escaped. So it depends. But the cicle is endless. As you say. Gens fly, survivors bm and Killers put the frustration on the next survivors the game afterwards. Or Survivors do the same when they had a bad game aswell. Just like normal DbD. 2v8 was barely any sweat at all. Just chaos. Says it all. Fuck normal DbD. After 2v8, 1v4 with any modifier got boring.
@@The-Doctor6969shit was mad boring . Either you died instantly or escaped without seeing a killer . As killer you couldn’t play as 80% of the roster and the ones you could had their power kneecaped .
2v8 had significant loading queue times as well. And my servers crashed so often I started getting DC penalties. When I sent in a help desk ticket with footage of the servers crashing they didn't care. I stopped trying and stuck to normal cause frick the server crashes.
Because it was game breaking beside the normal boring 1v4. With more Killers, variety of classes and more fun gameplay for survivors it will be hella fun. It was a reason why normal que times were fucked. Because many wanted to play 2v8 instead. But its just my opinion. I like the chaos around it and the fact you are not alone as a Killer. Que times were horrible but during the 400% extra bp for survivors. I only had to wait max 6-8 min. It was worth it. But it needs polishing and such for sure. I loved it and prefer that over normal DbD. Normal DbD is getting stale with only meta perks and such.
jokes on you scott i play demo with agitation only anyways so i'm really just feeling the pain of lacking agitation with less dead hards and DS bodyblocking
I've had the complete opposite experience. Choas shuffle is actually pretty chill. The teams are uncoordinated and make a lot of mistakes at loops compared to normal matchmaking. Not having to deal with DS, dead hard, or exhaustion perks constantly is hugely beneficial for focusing 2-3 ppl early.
The "Cycle of Sweat" is not about taking it out on the next players in my opinion. For most people if you lose, you will try harder to win the next game. Especially for those that play a couple of matches or an hour or two, you don't want every result or 99% of the matches to be losing. You state you don't care about winning that much... yet try to win. The main difference between you and normal people is simply experience + how long your sessions last. Most people don't mind losing a game here and there, sweating or chilling more among gamers usually just a response to their results: Win more = Chill out/Try out new things and Lose more = Sweat more. In the end people simply try to win. Whether it is the general game or a game mode like this that it what it comes down to. Once you win a couple you chill out a bit more or trying something new, because losing doesn't feel as bad if you won some matches that is just human nature. It is easier to shrug off a loss after a win and I think the frustration people have is more with their own performance than the opponents they face (though we might still blame the other side, because if they chilled more the game wouldn't be as hard and therefore our performance can be less optimal for a fun time). As a killer I also find it hard to judge whether survivors are playing chill or not, because if they do great, but if they are not... if I played too chill at the start I will lose if they are any good, even sweaty plays don't matter as much if they start happening after 3 gens are done. Yet if as a killer you sweat hard at the start and get a good start... survivors will feel the need to sweat, because that is how they can come back and win. It feeds into itself as you indicate, start out chill lose 3 games... and the sweat level is increased.
It’s kinda funny. I get 1 or maybe 2 slow down every match as killer. Lol. Survivor I bring a syringe or bnp because there are so many perks that rely on synergy with other perks I often get just trash perks. So to compensate I’ll bring something to help.
If anecdotes are on the table, I find that my success rate with stealth killers often increases in special modes. Chaos shuffle has been incredible for Wraith, Ghostie, and Michael.
I think another is issue is that Killer's don't really have many funny perks, or funny combinations that make you laugh like survivors do, ex: Survivors getting No Mither+Self Care. Killers just get bland boring perks that have no funny factor, like what am I supposed to do with something like Thwack, Play with your food, Cruel Limits, and Territorial Imperative. It's just kind of boring for killers.
I think a good thing to add would be bloodpoint incentives to not tunnel survivors out the game. for example, you hook sable, and you get a bonus 200 for hookin a new survivor instead of just chasing out someone out the game.
I think the driving force behind the cycle is fear that the next game is going to be as unfun as the last one so the perks are like an insurance policy. That's how my train of thought has worked personally experiencing it and then realizing that they make every game easier not just the would-be frustrating ones.
definitely experienced more than a few survivors bringing map offerings and cranking gens like crazy in this mode, haven't touched it since day 1 and my games have been much more chill lol
Honestly it needs a weight system where the game should always give you a perk related to gens. Now this doesn't mean you are getting a slowdown perk merely that you are getting a perk that revolves around the survivors single goal in the game. Gens.
Speaking of killers getting "payback" on survivors that didn't do anything, I was facing a Clown the other day where we randomly got backwater swamp as the map, and he hardcore tunneled and camped me at the start. When asked why in the end-game chat, his argument was that it's a hard map to see scratch marks on, and for that reason he camped and tunneled from the beginning. Neither me or my friends brought any meta builds or map offerings, he just wanted us to suffer because of RNG.
I haven't been able to play chaos shuffle either time it's been added, but I adore the concept and it's made me really sad to see how much people hate it
In the few games I've done as a survivor (like 10), I got between 1 and 3 perks that I didn't know the effects. Also, most of the time, other survivors seemed allergic to doing gens. On the other hand, a good portion of killers were tunneling more. So it didn't feel that much sweatier but mainly mediocre and unfun. Maybe I was just unlucky. It feels like the concept is really cool and fun until the people don't know their perks.
as someone who plays killer, I've noticed that survivors actually try to loop and mindgame more than on regular game mode. Maybe it's because they don't have all the 2nd chance perks to rely on or maybe it's just cus of the bp bonus, who knows
I had a legion facecamp and tunnel a Feng at the beginning of the match. We ended up all escaping other than the Feng and in the post game chat the Legion said he was facecamped and tunneled the previous match so he needed to do it to another survivor. That mindset is so fucking weird.
my experience with chaos shuffle is quite the opposite,because i feel in most games survivors manage to get so many gens done with very bad chases in my killer games and in my survivor games killers play for the win just like you mention. And the worst part must be every syringe bnp and other strong survivor and killer add-ons in most games
I've been playing some of both sides, and I've found it generally easier overall. But when I play killer, I almost exclusively play Pig. I think she's actually WAY better in this game mode, since her power is just entirely slowdown. The main difficulty with playing her in the normal game is dealing with long chases, mostly due to second chance perks. Without that in play on every survivor, I can get downs so much more quickly, which then gives the much-needed slowdown.
Base corrupt intervention for this mode might answer a lot of this, or maybe it's time to add it to the base game in general and slightly nerf corrupt so that equipping it just gets you the full effect of corrupt now?
the one that frustrates me the most is when you load in with 2 no mithers and the killer gets decent perks ( scenario had a nemi with pain res ) proxy camping the first no mither down at 5 gens like its a 5k tournament neither side seems to realise that there comes a point where u know ur going to win and you can calm down on the stomping your giving the other side so that everyone can have an enjoyable game
Honestly it's just conditioning. I keep catching myself telling myself to chill tf out. I'm going too hard on the survs and there's no reason to when everyone is just trying to vibe.
2:32 I've been suggesting my Unforeseen Devotion of Furtive Friends build for a long time now, and it's a blanket build, it works across the roster. "The game is balanced around the killer having slowdown perks," I cautiously disagree slowdown perks are a necessity; healing times were nerfed, base gen kicks got buffed and stopping regression got nerfed. Those changes were more than a quiet impact, freeing up perk slot viability. Run a week with _Unforeseen - Dark Devotion - Furtive Chase - FTTE_ it's a bonkers build. Willing to bet you'll wind up wanting to make a video covering it and the quiet Undetectable meta
I always thought that it would be fine to give the killer 5 perks in this mode and just make 1 a guaranteed slowdown, while the others stay completely randomized
4:20 it was worse in lights out when survivors actually had perks while no killers did. having each gen start at 5% and every survivor repairing 20% faster are definitely perks no matter how you slice it, and people still wanted to argue that it was killer sided when survivors had all the advantage. this game mode is only killer sided if they slug and tunnel, but the same can be said for literally any game mode. it was so much worse in lights out, but even then i cant blame it on that because in the first round of chaos shuffle, it was more relaxed on both sides by a country mile. it just feels like the community doesnt want to meme or chill anymore. survivors have to do all 5 gens in 4 minutes or else they will feel like they wasted their time; or killers have to slug and tunnel or else they wont get a 4k (because a 3k isnt good enough). these two game modes are just exposing the bad mechanics of the game tenfold; no slowdown means killers have to play scummy to feel like they won
It's interesting how these alternate modes tend to reveal or highlight flaws in the base game. For example, when you talk about sweat... my first thought is, why in the world would anyone consider playing to win to be a bad thing? Why is it better/more fun to *not* play to win? When the killer is outnumbered four to one, the optimal play is of course going to be to kill off your opponents. Each survivor taken out of the game dramatically lessens the ability of the remaining players to progress and escape - less players to sneak in and work on generators, less players available to try and blind or intercept a survivor being taken to a hook, etc. But if you're the player being tunneled and killed off ASAP, it friggin sucks! When you get hooked for the final time or mori'd or whatever, you'd just left there with your dick in your hand and nothing to do but either spectate or leave. So that breeds toxicity in the survivor players - it feels personal to them (even though, unless you've become known for being a twat, it isn't) so they take it out on killers in all of their games... all the t-bagging shit. Same too for killers - you're just some rando killer and they're BMing like that and it just keeps happening? You start assuming it's just how survivor players behave so you take it out on them. I don't know what they can do to address how lopsided that equation is - the need for the killer to actually kill the survivors, but it being so unfun to be tunneled and killed as a survivor - but it's obviously a major design problem. I think that if people are getting salty over other people playing to win, you have a serious issue that you really need to think about and figure out a solution to. Playing to win shouldn't be seen as something bad or negative. Chaos shuffle shows that giving survivors anti-tunnel perks is maybe not the best way to solve this issue, because it does nothing to address the underlying issue - maybe survivors need something intrinsic to them with limited use/charges to protect themselves from being tunneled? And maybe killers with difficulty chasing without slowdown also need some kind of intrinsic way to help with that?
I was so excited for the mode because I expected it to be way less sweaty, but every killer I played against tunneled and every survivor brought the best medkits and the best toolboxes possible. I feel like items or at least the addons should have been randomized too
I play spirit and it’s so much fun I don’t play to win I just play for chases cause chases are fun 90% of the time I’ve got em all death hook no tunneling at 2 gens then I let ‘em go cause it’s a special event with 3x bp and it’s not that deep
Their are really only three reasons why the game mode is sweaty, first one you are still allowed to bring in map offerings second reason you can still bring any item and add ons into your match a survivor and killer are allowed to still bring their best stuff whats stopping them, third reason survivors and killers just suck that the players rely way to much on their perks to carry them.
Does anyone have ideas for what could be a "Basekit method of slowdown" that awards the killer for playing in a fun way? Imagine that this method needs to be effective enough that they could still reliably win if every slowdown perk in the game were removed as a form of trade. The other key to this is: It would ideally be something that is still fun and interactive for survivors. So it couldn't just be Giga Pain Resonance and require someone to spend 3 minutes on one generator while his team trades hooks.
This is more of a widespread issue for DBD as a whole. While you can use certain builds and they can be effective in their niche use cases, nothing beats the universal effectiveness of slowdown and information. So, I guess my main question would be: Do you think the basekit slowdown for killer should be buffed? They've made many changes to how killers without perks can apply meaningful slowdown, but even then, the time cost to potential benefit of kicking a Gen without any perks often leaves killers in a poor spot where slowdown CAN be applied, but often isn't good enough at base to be a good idea. As you said, survivors have the benefit when it comes to a perk and time economy, and the best thing you can do to level the playing field is to get one survivor out of the game as fast as possible. Though, as I think we all know, that's not a healthy style of gameplay, so what's another way to decrease reliance on slowdown perks and tunneling? Make slowdown at base much more effective. Though, how well you could balance that in relation to slowdown perks, I'm not sure.
All this talk about sweats in Chaos Shuffle and then there's me who has to literally throw games as killer not to 4k at 5 gens consistently. On a real note, I'm not sure if I understand with the statement that survivor is easier than killer. You need top tier coordination and looping skills on top of best of the best items (this includes brown medkits too). If you lack even 1 of them, killer already has an upper hand because they have addons and their powers don't rely on perks more often than not. Usually in soloQ survivors will lack 2 or even all of these criteria to be good as a team and just eat dirt. I do admit, swfs once again spit into the equation but it doesn't change the base game's balance of swf > killer > soloq
Idk how I feel about it being survivor sided. I’ve gone against survivors that do gens quickly but that’s about it. What I’ve noticed the more and more I play is that if u remove each sides meta perks the players are absolute dog water. As a killer I’d be 2king without tunneling and playing on autopilot in the normal mode. In Chaos Shuffle, autopilot, no tunneling or camping, random perks, no addons, effortless 4k. It’s not that I’m insanely cracked, it’s just that the other side relays too heavily on perks
It’s been mostly fine for me on both sides but i have noticed an increase in hard tunneling when okay survivor. It’s fine but just what i’ve personally noticed
I have generally been having great time with chaos shuffle the lack of quad slowdown makes doing gens less annoying but I'm running into so many survivors who just farm unhooks in front of the killer and expecting not to get tunneled it and yell at the killer for tunneling me even tho they farm me. 😭
Another factor could be that most new players or people who play for fun are playing the normal game mode. Only the people who have played so much dbd that the idea of randomized perks seems fun are the people queuing up for this game mode
My first game last night, there was a sweat god blight who might as well have seen through walls and found me and the other players in like 2 seconds each time he got a hook and we lost in like 5 minutes, but the next two games after were fun meme games and the ghostface and I had a basement party and it was funny, I like chaos shuffle
I played two games yesterday, both as killer, anmd ended up with two kills and two escapes, which I feel is the preferred result, isn´t it? Because both games were challenging but really fun. My first game was as hag in rpd which I´ve completely forgot which perks I had, but the second one is really interesting because I managed to get a completely stealth build as pig on badham, with monitor, dark devotion and game afoot. Definetly didn´t use it as well as I could but I did get some cheeky hits from the stealth. The last perk was Undone which I know is really good slowdown but I tbh I didn´t remember what it did with just the icon until very late in the game so I took very little advantage of it. Fun matches overall tho.
I really like chaos shuffle, i wish it would give 1 slowdown/gen stall guaranteed, then it would feel better. Maybe it could also guarantee that 2 exhaustion perks are given to the survivor side and then like the 2 other survivors get perks with cooldowns? Idk juat something to make it random, but a little more balanced.
I really wish Items/Addons for both sides were either disabled or randomized too. Not really a chaotic mode if every lobby has the same item and top tier add ons
they DID say that the next version will have changes and the current one was just swooped in since so many people wanted it back. So im looking forward to your suggestions making it into 2.0 :)
100% needs to have zero items/addons
Yeah, and tbh they should just disable map offerings for this mode. Could still use cakes tho :D
Everything should be randomised except for characters and skins imo even offerings lmao
@@mitchszdisable map offerings, but leave cakes, I hope they don't just disable all offerings
Chaos Shuffle needs a nice long shower then doesn't he
A nice shower with the bros let’s all shower together! 🎉
I fuck with this comment heavy
i love chaos shuffle, i normally always use perk roulette. I would love if this could be a thing for anyone that desires in normal gamemodes as well. like an option in a loadout or something
God I wanted a build in randomizer for the load out for years at this point. They already have the stuff to do this, I don't see how adding one more button somewhere next to the perks is so hard for BHVR
For sure. And adding a really good incentive for it, like 500% bonus BP for randomising your loadout? That would be SO healthy. It would give people more of an incentive to try something new and avoid the meta.
If people are frustrated about getting bad perks ( as killer or survivor) then they shouldn’t play that mode. Do you have any right to complain when you know what you’re signing up for?
Depends you can get mad if like you get something like Territorial 4 games in a row.
So far my favorite this go around was Dramaturgy with No Mither I just laughed though.
If people are frustrated about getting tunneled and camped, then they shouldn’t play dbd.
exactly, why would you even care about things like balance in a mode where its literally randomised. You can just switch over and run a sweaty build in normal queue if you are genuinely upset at your luck
@@illitaret8780 once again I’d say it depends once in while yeah sure, if you on one of those awful stretches where it’s happening every game getting frustrated or mad is reasonable provided you don’t start sending out death threats or something.
@@illitaret8780 If you get tunneled/camped at a similar rate to that of getting a bad build in chaos shuffle ( and those things frustrate you) then yes I’d 100% agree.
4/5 games for me personally is literally just:
-spawn in
-get found by killer
-get hooked
-get tunnel'd
-repeat next game
Pretty much same here. I'd just add another one for myself: get to the second hook stage with all 3 of my teammates still alive, every second match.
That's the issue with DBD's design, in a nutshell. Getting tunneled, in terms of the entire game, isn't necessarily the end of the world - while the killer is focusing on you, your teammates are free to pursue objectives. But getting tunneled is rarely fun for the chosen victim, and if you die you get fuck all for it, even if your teammates manage to escape.
Something about that needs to change. Tunneling isn't an issue, that's just how the game is meant to work. But getting tunneled and dying shouldn't make the player feel like they just got fuck all of their time invested.
try not getting hooked with better looping
Same, I don't understand why scott say it's survivor sided, I definitly see killer winning more often
I feel like another part of the reason people are so sweaty is because of the rank emblems and the MMR still being a thing in the mode, seeing as the only mode to NOT include the ranking system was 2v8 it just confuses me how BHVR wants to make modes like this for people to have fun, but still keep the system that alot of sweaty or comp dbd players care about in the modes, leading to people trying alot harder because they care alot more about their MMR than most players
I mean the rank means literally nothing now so idk why people would care about it so much
@@romanlaton3921 because they want to brag about being red ranks and they want to brag and add Iri Rank Survivor/Killer to their video/stream titles like it still means something. Which to me makes about as much sense as adding #1 ranked or high mmr ranked like those are things you can see in game. You can't see your MMR anywhere and the only people who can see a leaderboard are people on pc and then it only takes in to account pc players so it's not even true.
@@romanlaton3921 right its not like alot of people, I just mean for like the one small group of sweats lmao
Actually mmr works on 2v8 !!! According to otz and hens333 it was effecting matchmaking but you wouldn’t gain or lose it in this mode
@@veladanjbakht140 ohhhh alright alright
Dead by Daylight: The only game where winning 90% of your matches is normal.
A blight player gets a 1000 wins streak and nobody bats an eye...
But I just want the hatch AND EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS
I get why people bring cycle their frustrations onto the next players. You get one tough game and you assume the next one will be the same.
Saying that, if you want less sweaty games, play less sweaty. I've been playing super casual, trying to get value out of my perks and often letting survivors escape and my games have been super relaxed. If you stop caring about ranking up then the overall game is much less sweaty
dbd is the only game I'm aware of where by design 1 'team' must win most matches, and said team gets frustrated if their winrate falls from 90% to 80%. I disliked Chaos Shuffle the first time around and haven't touched it this time since there isn't a tome, I'm just glad the queue times for normal dbd didn't get fucked
Dead by Daylight is a joke. It is normal to win 90% of your matches? It should always be 50/50.
@@Them-e6t since dbd is an assymetrical game, to an extent yeah it should be more skewed to killers killing a bit more often to the kill rate that behaviour themseleves created, otherwise it wouldn't be a power role and people probably wouldnt be playing killer if 1 or 2 kills was the norm for killer. Survivor is also more balanced around individual escape rates than team ones
The best decision I made when playing killer is I stopped playing to win. Obviously I will still try but after going through my “sweaty phase” where I used to tunnel and get triggered from survivors tbagging at the gate deep down I started to get burnt out. Now i mainly meme and try to interact with survivors by giving them a head nod when i get stunned at a pallet as an example and try to have fun and if I win cool and if i don’t then gg go next.
Same, watched a video about how to have fun again where it said "say it with me now - FUCK THE GENS". Really made me care less if they get finished.
Also, nod at the survivors that escape (if you go to the exit gate at all). Chasing them out the door is just more frustrating.
Also, a killer "win" is now getting any kills - forget 4k.
That's makes killer a lot more fun for me at least
they need to take out items for survivor and add on for killer
the amount of hard tunneling, slugging nurses is really insane
1:44 this is why we need a rematch option in this game
It's a good idea, but I imagine people would bounce if they lost that round anyway. If your goal is to maximize your BPs during the 3x modifier, you sure as hell aren't gonna want to go again vs a strong killer/strong group of survivors.
@@dc8836 thats why is optional u rematch only if ppl want(killer and survs) want to
Yeah I was bringing cakes and no items but having 4 matches in a row where the killer tunneled someone out at 5 gens im bringing map offerings and op items every game I guess.
At this point killers are forcing us to ngl lol
@@YoshiiniteAs Scott said though it’s a feedback loop, a killer can choose not to tunnel and then get gen-rushed because no gen-slowdown. If you want to win, which it’s a pvp game so most people do, both sides have to play sweaty to counter each-other or risk playing casually and getting stomped on.
@@directorhail4881 If you're playing casually you shouldn't care about getting stomped, honestly. Why does it matter? if you play casually you're not expecting to win to begin with.
@@Yoshiinite You just sounded one-sided. You can literally apply the same concept to killer. “Survivors keep gen-rushing me so I guess I’ll tunnel since I have no gen defence, they don’t really give me much of a choice.” Scott already explained this in the video.
@@directorhail4881 I play killer in this mode and i don't give a crap if i win or lose, it is what it is, as long as i keep walking out with like 100-150k bloodpoints i'm happy
I think it’s time we generalize that dbd players suck for making a fun game mode so competitive and sweaty
Finally. I love this mode can't stand people bitching about it :(
@@The-Doctor6969 Indeed. I didn't even know people were bitching about it until I saw the title of scott's video. I thought this mode was universally loved. I think killer mains specifically don't like it because they don't have their guaranteed pain res, corrupt, etc.
i think dbd players suck for constantly complaining that people are better at the game than them. if certain strategies are unfun to go against, then it's on bhvr to rework it to be more fun, instead of complaining that someone is using it and "being sweaty."
@@MrNigel117 This. Humans as a collective are fairly predictable in how they will react to certain things. Many humans play to win and anyone else having fun be damned. It’s up to a game designer to design the game in such a way where the winning strategy doesn’t turn the game into a bore fest for one or more players.
In this case it’s up to BHVR to remove tunnelling and proxy camping as forms of slowdown while also not having the game balanced around having slow down perks.
You are playing a PvP game, those are inherently competitive.
i mean, the problem started when people took dbd like a comp game
Yeah I've noticed way more slugging and tunnelling compared to normal.
When I've played killer though it's been a lot easier compared to normal as well.
It's because there's no MMR I believe. May be wrong but it feels that way. Either way it's extremely fun.
I've always told myself that no matter how tilting a match is, I should never, EVER take it out on the next group of survivors.
You are a good person
Disagree. If I’m tilted I’m playing quad hex Demogorgon or Pinhead (with box solve time add ons(
Same.
Chaos mode keeps reaffirming players that 75% of perks are garbage.
The tunneling is crazy in CS, I get chased for nearly 2-3 minutes per game because killers refuse to give up on the one person they find. Then I see my solo Q teammates aren't touching gens. As soon as they down me, they shake their head and hump me and proxy camp for that 1 single kill, sometimes even at the cost of the other 3 escaping. It just makes Solo Q more miserable than it already is.
When they're trippling on a gen I off myself. Could've done THREE gens during my long ah chase but noooo
This is how I feel about survivors going crazy with the BNP and toolboxes In CS smh. I agree with the tunneling though. I played with my friends last night and I probably got tunneled every other game
I just wish the game as a whole was less balanced around slowdown, and that the game rewarded spreading hooks more
I kept having survivors tbag and try to farm in chaos shuffle after 1 failed chase. It was cute the first time but now it makes me feel bored because I just wanna play normally.
I was in a Solo Queue Chaos Shuffle against a Pig that slugged the entire match, no hooks, until we bled out.
P100?
I played against a Wesker with knock out. Fun
stuff like this makes me wonder, "how many things will killer and survivors have basekit at the end of DBD's lifespan", because at some point you can guarantee therell be some form of basekit anti-tunnel outside of BT, and some form of anti genrush for killer
Base kit Deadlock 🙏
It's sad cos I've been duoing with my gf and we've just been running an okay medkit and an okay flashlight every game, and we've noticed a lot of our games will have the other two randoms equipping flashlights as well (I assume because flashlights are just fun to use and theres no guarantee of lightborn), so I haven't really been seeing the BNPs and syringes so it was really confusing to us why in more than half our games the killer hard tunneled someone out. I've just been using the flashlight to get saves on the person getting tunneled but it isn't enough most of the time. What you said makes sense, I can see why it might be an issue for killers to play normally, but damn I wish I could get just a few more games where I could chill instead of getting tunneled or watching my girlfriend get tunneled. It's so sad
it seems like a lack of responsibility whenever people go online and give anecdotes about survs/killers online. there's this endless cycle of the game makes killers do this which makes survs do this which makes killers do this- just don't be a shitty player and move on. I've also been duoing with a beamer and a medkit, and when I tell you, the tunneling is insane. But I dont go to my next match and bully the next killer. so idk reading ur message was really nice bc someone wasn't blaming someone else for once, but it's also sad that these types of players will always be at the whim of "but killer/survivor HARD so I have to tunnel/bully" ur playing chaos shuffle in an rng game losing is fine
@@The-Doctor6969 based as hell comment, i felt that
Normal DBD, the survivors are dead. Events/Bloodrush. Im playing 1 of my 720+ 8th year cakes to "have fun" with the survivors. Play natural, hook em all twice, then farm/meme. Unless the survivors are very experienced, giving me a chance to test myself. Then yea il play naturally the entire trial.
Yesterday, i downed all 4 survivors (Huntress) and allowed them to reset...
Winning isnt everything. Winning isnt always fun. Also, killing everybody before mid game means you dont get many points! So it isnt even worth it!
Good for you, want a cookie? Some people play to win, it's what's fun for them and some play to mess around like run a meme build and don't really care about the BP
@ardaoguzhan8181 Whats the point of your comment?
@@ardaoguzhan8181 Whats the point of your comment?
My guy your MMR isn't high them, I can't recall when was the last time my lobby didn't had 3 ds/otr/unbreakable, people with nasty medkits and toolboxes, midtier somewhat competent survivors, with no toolboxes or perks, take around 50 secs to pop a gen, good luck having a chase in less than 50 secs, that simply not happen unless u are playing with S tier killers
@Borr77 why would high mmr run crap perks like DS and Unbreakable everygame?
If what your saying is true and it's "every game". Wouldn't you learn to not tunnle or leave a survivor on the ground? Why would you down the unhooked survivor to use Unbreakable to begin with???? Sounds counter productive you think?
Hmm. I follow your logic, but most killers are bringing the nastiest iri add-ons and feeling confident about tunnelling - so can’t say that survivor games have felt “easy” in this mode. Not in solo queue anyway.
Tbf most killers Iri add ons are garbage with very few exceptions. I have a better game playing with green/yellow add ons that I do with most of the killers Iri's.
@@dezignatedkiller1359 yeah, just an easier phrase. The most OP add-ons you might say instead.
My guy gens take about 50 secs to pop with somewhat mid tier competent survivors, now good luck trying to make a chase last less then that, unless u playing S tier killers
yeah again it depends how you play. its been extremely hard for me because i try to not tunnel but someone playing equally sweaty evens it back out
Yeah Scott covers this pretty well. It's survivor sided if killers play fair like Scott tries to. However in a true play to win style, killers have no incentive to do this because they know there is only a very tiny chance they will actually have any anti tunnel protection. So they trade their lack of slowdown for their ability to guarantee tunnel outs. As Scott said 'it's balanced but in the worst way possible'. Balance indeed does not equal fun.
I've been loving Chaos Shuffle as Huntress. In 99% of my games, I can usually keep up pretty well just by getting everyone to death hook first. I haven't noticed any super sweaty gameplay yet, either. I guess I'm just lucky.
One thing I have definitely noticed is the abundance of syringes from the survivor side.
Scott chasing the Alucard with one hand under his chin so lackadaisical is the funniest shit to me 😂
Honestly I don’t think it’s people trying to be sweaty, rather just bringing strong items and addons to give them some level of certainty amongst all the randomness.
Its a fact killers tunnel more in chaos shuffle . Bringing a medkit with a needle is just a attempt to counter that .
I never feel disadvantaged with no perks while playing survivor, and ALWAYS feel disadvantaged while playing no perks on killer!
Probably because you're good at survivor and bad at killer.
I'm pretty good at both and I can tell you I play no perk bubba a lot and it's way way easier than playing as survivor perkless against a hardcore tunneler.
4 vs 16. also, i feel like survivor perk strengths are always downplayed for stupid reasons compared to killer perks. sure, slowdown is strong but it's limited. stealth and exhaustion perks are not limited at all.
Each surv needs one random anti-tunnel and killer needs at least 1 random slowdown. May not be perfect but would play better
Basekit Unbreakable in Modifiers/Modes would be a god send as well, not in regular DBD, but in limited time modifiers and modes yeah
I disagree as survivor tunnels are fun... I can 3-5 gen killer if they try to tunnel I can use skill and winning mind games and use map knowledge... if they want they loss the game... slow down makes macro game more important which is boring for survivor bc killer just goes to Gen by Gen a chase when someone is catch off position... prefer that they tunnel and win coin flip or condition player into downs but people don't want to think and make micro game more important
@@Yoshiinitebase kit unbreakable but killers get base kit pain res or pop
Those things should just be intrinsic rather than perks. If you're in a situation where survivors or killers "need" a particular type of perk in order to function properly... then that's a situation where those things need to just become baseline.
I’m so glad I wasn’t the only one that’s been feeling this. It wasn’t nearly as sweaty as last year imo.
Was excited to try the mode, wasn't playing the first time around, and just about had it ruined for me. First three games I brought party streamers, and ended up tunneled out all 3 of those games immediately. Stuck with it, just with personal offerings instead, and it's been pretty dope. Really sucks people gotta play that way though.
1:24 well, you see, Dead by Daylight is like hockey: If the Rangers give the Islanders are hard time, that's obviously a problem for the Blue Jackets. How dare the Blue Jackets let the Islanders do what they did to the Rangers in _their_ game?!
In my experience with this mode out of 50 games 26 of them I was tunneled and slugged, same with my duo out of those 26 matches 10 of them I was humped on the ground by the killer... and my teammates just hide, refuse to unhook and refuse to do gens....
My teammates would sometimes get grabbed off gens by a killler with terror radius😭 and every second match I get to second hook stage with everyone alive. Solo que is just ridiculous most of the time. A lot of them don't care much about you when you're not their real life friend. A slug got picked up (wasn't hooked yet) at the cost of me getting to second hook stage...priorities
is it?
i mean, i got a bunch of syringes or stuff like that, but didnt notice much difference other than that and it didnt help those people much anyway
I stopped playing it pretty quickly because 90% of the games had killers hardcore tunneling, camping, and slugging
For me personally ive been getting for the most part baby killers and when i play killer im up against bad survivors to the point where its not even fun feels like theres no mmr for me
@@Lazurikittie i noticed zero difference except i was having way more variety due to random perks. Genuinely refreshing after endless lobbies where you either run same boring meta or have to sweat bc you're guaranteed to be outperked.
It’s definitely obviously survivor sided. Just because of how much a killers perk matters. Wether or not you personally noticed a difference is irrelevant to the fact of the matter. You could just be bad lol (no offense) or your teammates are. I didn’t notice a difference when I tunneled survivors but I wouldn’t say that tunneling had no effect. When I brought syringes and bnps I only noticed a difference of my teammates were good. If they were then the match was super easy but if they sucked then it felt like a waste.
Honestly, the problem with chaos shuffle is the fundamental design of dbd; perks and items affect matches way more than they arguably should. I could bet that most people feel as if the perks carry more so than player skill or killer choice.
Ehmm i have won almost every match as a Killer but one time when i played slinger on Haddonfield i got Lethal, corrupt, pain res and noed so 😂 As a survivor, i barely escaped. So it depends. But the cicle is endless. As you say. Gens fly, survivors bm and Killers put the frustration on the next survivors the game afterwards. Or Survivors do the same when they had a bad game aswell. Just like normal DbD. 2v8 was barely any sweat at all. Just chaos. Says it all. Fuck normal DbD. After 2v8, 1v4 with any modifier got boring.
Man I do not get the hype for 2v8 I absolutely hated it
@@The-Doctor6969shit was mad boring . Either you died instantly or escaped without seeing a killer . As killer you couldn’t play as 80% of the roster and the ones you could had their power kneecaped .
2v8 had significant loading queue times as well. And my servers crashed so often I started getting DC penalties. When I sent in a help desk ticket with footage of the servers crashing they didn't care. I stopped trying and stuck to normal cause frick the server crashes.
Because it was game breaking beside the normal boring 1v4. With more Killers, variety of classes and more fun gameplay for survivors it will be hella fun. It was a reason why normal que times were fucked. Because many wanted to play 2v8 instead. But its just my opinion. I like the chaos around it and the fact you are not alone as a Killer. Que times were horrible but during the 400% extra bp for survivors. I only had to wait max 6-8 min. It was worth it. But it needs polishing and such for sure. I loved it and prefer that over normal DbD. Normal DbD is getting stale with only meta perks and such.
@@JonteNitak that has nothing to do w 2v8 and everything to do w the class system, the actual 2v8 mode is ass
Scott actually growing his beard lets goooooo
jokes on you scott i play demo with agitation only anyways so i'm really just feeling the pain of lacking agitation with less dead hards and DS bodyblocking
I've had the complete opposite experience. Choas shuffle is actually pretty chill. The teams are uncoordinated and make a lot of mistakes at loops compared to normal matchmaking. Not having to deal with DS, dead hard, or exhaustion perks constantly is hugely beneficial for focusing 2-3 ppl early.
The "Cycle of Sweat" is not about taking it out on the next players in my opinion. For most people if you lose, you will try harder to win the next game. Especially for those that play a couple of matches or an hour or two, you don't want every result or 99% of the matches to be losing.
You state you don't care about winning that much... yet try to win. The main difference between you and normal people is simply experience + how long your sessions last. Most people don't mind losing a game here and there, sweating or chilling more among gamers usually just a response to their results: Win more = Chill out/Try out new things and Lose more = Sweat more. In the end people simply try to win.
Whether it is the general game or a game mode like this that it what it comes down to. Once you win a couple you chill out a bit more or trying something new, because losing doesn't feel as bad if you won some matches that is just human nature. It is easier to shrug off a loss after a win and I think the frustration people have is more with their own performance than the opponents they face (though we might still blame the other side, because if they chilled more the game wouldn't be as hard and therefore our performance can be less optimal for a fun time).
As a killer I also find it hard to judge whether survivors are playing chill or not, because if they do great, but if they are not... if I played too chill at the start I will lose if they are any good, even sweaty plays don't matter as much if they start happening after 3 gens are done. Yet if as a killer you sweat hard at the start and get a good start... survivors will feel the need to sweat, because that is how they can come back and win. It feeds into itself as you indicate, start out chill lose 3 games... and the sweat level is increased.
If only people just played for the chase and wouldn’t care about the number at the end
It’s kinda funny. I get 1 or maybe 2 slow down every match as killer. Lol. Survivor I bring a syringe or bnp because there are so many perks that rely on synergy with other perks I often get just trash perks. So to compensate I’ll bring something to help.
Neil Tyson would be proud of your explanation time Scott
I'm glad I'm not the only one who recognized how sweaty it is
Tbh I’ve seen more people either DCing or just going afk until they die while I played killer
If anecdotes are on the table, I find that my success rate with stealth killers often increases in special modes. Chaos shuffle has been incredible for Wraith, Ghostie, and Michael.
Love the background footage vs Farmer John's Alucard. I haven't played CS as killer yet and frankly, I don't really want to after watching this.
I think another is issue is that Killer's don't really have many funny perks, or funny combinations that make you laugh like survivors do, ex: Survivors getting No Mither+Self Care. Killers just get bland boring perks that have no funny factor, like what am I supposed to do with something like Thwack, Play with your food, Cruel Limits, and Territorial Imperative. It's just kind of boring for killers.
thwack is sick
Hex Two Can Play, Spirit Fury, and Hubris are all pretty funny imo
@@MagicMonkey96 I actually got all 3 of these randomized onto a loadout when the T1 bug was in lol.
ok Scott said it. For those wondering in the forums why killers are so tunnel heavy in this mode, go to 3:15 in the video and you get your answer.
I love the fact that survivors usually don't have exhaustion perks. No get out of chase free cards.
I think a good thing to add would be bloodpoint incentives to not tunnel survivors out the game. for example, you hook sable, and you get a bonus 200 for hookin a new survivor instead of just chasing out someone out the game.
I think the driving force behind the cycle is fear that the next game is going to be as unfun as the last one so the perks are like an insurance policy. That's how my train of thought has worked personally experiencing it and then realizing that they make every game easier not just the would-be frustrating ones.
It always was. I just put tombstone piece on Myers to help even the field.
Killer winrates in this game are pretty insane.
definitely experienced more than a few survivors bringing map offerings and cranking gens like crazy in this mode, haven't touched it since day 1 and my games have been much more chill lol
Honestly it needs a weight system where the game should always give you a perk related to gens. Now this doesn't mean you are getting a slowdown perk merely that you are getting a perk that revolves around the survivors single goal in the game. Gens.
Speaking of killers getting "payback" on survivors that didn't do anything, I was facing a Clown the other day where we randomly got backwater swamp as the map, and he hardcore tunneled and camped me at the start. When asked why in the end-game chat, his argument was that it's a hard map to see scratch marks on, and for that reason he camped and tunneled from the beginning.
Neither me or my friends brought any meta builds or map offerings, he just wanted us to suffer because of RNG.
I haven't been able to play chaos shuffle either time it's been added, but I adore the concept and it's made me really sad to see how much people hate it
In the few games I've done as a survivor (like 10), I got between 1 and 3 perks that I didn't know the effects. Also, most of the time, other survivors seemed allergic to doing gens. On the other hand, a good portion of killers were tunneling more. So it didn't feel that much sweatier but mainly mediocre and unfun. Maybe I was just unlucky. It feels like the concept is really cool and fun until the people don't know their perks.
“Ive gotten maybe 2 slowdown perks” meanwhile quietkills first game he gets painres deadlock eruption
as someone who plays killer, I've noticed that survivors actually try to loop and mindgame more than on regular game mode. Maybe it's because they don't have all the 2nd chance perks to rely on or maybe it's just cus of the bp bonus, who knows
I had a legion facecamp and tunnel a Feng at the beginning of the match. We ended up all escaping other than the Feng and in the post game chat the Legion said he was facecamped and tunneled the previous match so he needed to do it to another survivor.
That mindset is so fucking weird.
my experience with chaos shuffle is quite the opposite,because i feel in most games survivors manage to get so many gens done with very bad chases in my killer games and in my survivor games killers play for the win just like you mention. And the worst part must be every syringe bnp and other strong survivor and killer add-ons in most games
Killers experience pain equivalent to solo queue and decide to mount an arms race. says a lot, don't you think
I’ll be trying out chaos shuffle for the first time tonight after work
I rolled Insidious and stood outside the gas haven garage since the last 2 survs were on the last gen inside and jumpscared an Elodie :3
I've been playing some of both sides, and I've found it generally easier overall. But when I play killer, I almost exclusively play Pig. I think she's actually WAY better in this game mode, since her power is just entirely slowdown. The main difficulty with playing her in the normal game is dealing with long chases, mostly due to second chance perks. Without that in play on every survivor, I can get downs so much more quickly, which then gives the much-needed slowdown.
Base corrupt intervention for this mode might answer a lot of this, or maybe it's time to add it to the base game in general and slightly nerf corrupt so that equipping it just gets you the full effect of corrupt now?
I said this in the DBD forums long ago when they gave out BT for free. Didn't happen probably because you know Blight and Nurse the usual BS!
Hey scott have you played the new hero Sohei in for honor he is really unique and fun, can you try him out and show off his gimmick?
the one that frustrates me the most is when you load in with 2 no mithers and the killer gets decent perks ( scenario had a nemi with pain res ) proxy camping the first no mither down at 5 gens like its a 5k tournament neither side seems to realise that there comes a point where u know ur going to win and you can calm down on the stomping your giving the other side so that everyone can have an enjoyable game
Honestly it's just conditioning. I keep catching myself telling myself to chill tf out. I'm going too hard on the survs and there's no reason to when everyone is just trying to vibe.
Me over here about to detroy everyone with Sadeko “Hooks what are those?”
In the OCE region, it has mostly been pretty casual thank god. Some of the most fun I have had in DBD for a while.
2:32 I've been suggesting my Unforeseen Devotion of Furtive Friends build for a long time now, and it's a blanket build, it works across the roster. "The game is balanced around the killer having slowdown perks," I cautiously disagree slowdown perks are a necessity; healing times were nerfed, base gen kicks got buffed and stopping regression got nerfed. Those changes were more than a quiet impact, freeing up perk slot viability. Run a week with _Unforeseen - Dark Devotion - Furtive Chase - FTTE_ it's a bonkers build. Willing to bet you'll wind up wanting to make a video covering it and the quiet Undetectable meta
So far for me this mode hasn't been sweaty at all, but i can definitely tell this mode is survivor sided and thats coming from a survivor main
Ah yes, the elusive *perpetual engine machine*
I always thought that it would be fine to give the killer 5 perks in this mode and just make 1 a guaranteed slowdown, while the others stay completely randomized
4:20 it was worse in lights out when survivors actually had perks while no killers did. having each gen start at 5% and every survivor repairing 20% faster are definitely perks no matter how you slice it, and people still wanted to argue that it was killer sided when survivors had all the advantage. this game mode is only killer sided if they slug and tunnel, but the same can be said for literally any game mode. it was so much worse in lights out, but even then i cant blame it on that because in the first round of chaos shuffle, it was more relaxed on both sides by a country mile. it just feels like the community doesnt want to meme or chill anymore. survivors have to do all 5 gens in 4 minutes or else they will feel like they wasted their time; or killers have to slug and tunnel or else they wont get a 4k (because a 3k isnt good enough). these two game modes are just exposing the bad mechanics of the game tenfold; no slowdown means killers have to play scummy to feel like they won
It's interesting how these alternate modes tend to reveal or highlight flaws in the base game. For example, when you talk about sweat... my first thought is, why in the world would anyone consider playing to win to be a bad thing? Why is it better/more fun to *not* play to win? When the killer is outnumbered four to one, the optimal play is of course going to be to kill off your opponents. Each survivor taken out of the game dramatically lessens the ability of the remaining players to progress and escape - less players to sneak in and work on generators, less players available to try and blind or intercept a survivor being taken to a hook, etc.
But if you're the player being tunneled and killed off ASAP, it friggin sucks! When you get hooked for the final time or mori'd or whatever, you'd just left there with your dick in your hand and nothing to do but either spectate or leave. So that breeds toxicity in the survivor players - it feels personal to them (even though, unless you've become known for being a twat, it isn't) so they take it out on killers in all of their games... all the t-bagging shit. Same too for killers - you're just some rando killer and they're BMing like that and it just keeps happening? You start assuming it's just how survivor players behave so you take it out on them.
I don't know what they can do to address how lopsided that equation is - the need for the killer to actually kill the survivors, but it being so unfun to be tunneled and killed as a survivor - but it's obviously a major design problem. I think that if people are getting salty over other people playing to win, you have a serious issue that you really need to think about and figure out a solution to. Playing to win shouldn't be seen as something bad or negative. Chaos shuffle shows that giving survivors anti-tunnel perks is maybe not the best way to solve this issue, because it does nothing to address the underlying issue - maybe survivors need something intrinsic to them with limited use/charges to protect themselves from being tunneled? And maybe killers with difficulty chasing without slowdown also need some kind of intrinsic way to help with that?
I was so excited for the mode because I expected it to be way less sweaty, but every killer I played against tunneled and every survivor brought the best medkits and the best toolboxes possible. I feel like items or at least the addons should have been randomized too
I play spirit and it’s so much fun I don’t play to win I just play for chases cause chases are fun 90% of the time I’ve got em all death hook no tunneling at 2 gens then I let ‘em go cause it’s a special event with 3x bp and it’s not that deep
Not me playing 25 matches of survivor and not getting an exhaustion perk a single time.
This time everyone is sweatier than last time no idea why
Oh no your 99% win rate!
(I have like a 4% win rate with 3K hours, I'm ass)
Their are really only three reasons why the game mode is sweaty, first one you are still allowed to bring in map offerings second reason you can still bring any item and add ons into your match a survivor and killer are allowed to still bring their best stuff whats stopping them, third reason survivors and killers just suck that the players rely way to much on their perks to carry them.
Does anyone have ideas for what could be a "Basekit method of slowdown" that awards the killer for playing in a fun way? Imagine that this method needs to be effective enough that they could still reliably win if every slowdown perk in the game were removed as a form of trade. The other key to this is: It would ideally be something that is still fun and interactive for survivors. So it couldn't just be Giga Pain Resonance and require someone to spend 3 minutes on one generator while his team trades hooks.
This is more of a widespread issue for DBD as a whole. While you can use certain builds and they can be effective in their niche use cases, nothing beats the universal effectiveness of slowdown and information. So, I guess my main question would be: Do you think the basekit slowdown for killer should be buffed? They've made many changes to how killers without perks can apply meaningful slowdown, but even then, the time cost to potential benefit of kicking a Gen without any perks often leaves killers in a poor spot where slowdown CAN be applied, but often isn't good enough at base to be a good idea.
As you said, survivors have the benefit when it comes to a perk and time economy, and the best thing you can do to level the playing field is to get one survivor out of the game as fast as possible. Though, as I think we all know, that's not a healthy style of gameplay, so what's another way to decrease reliance on slowdown perks and tunneling? Make slowdown at base much more effective. Though, how well you could balance that in relation to slowdown perks, I'm not sure.
All this talk about sweats in Chaos Shuffle and then there's me who has to literally throw games as killer not to 4k at 5 gens consistently.
On a real note, I'm not sure if I understand with the statement that survivor is easier than killer. You need top tier coordination and looping skills on top of best of the best items (this includes brown medkits too). If you lack even 1 of them, killer already has an upper hand because they have addons and their powers don't rely on perks more often than not. Usually in soloQ survivors will lack 2 or even all of these criteria to be good as a team and just eat dirt. I do admit, swfs once again spit into the equation but it doesn't change the base game's balance of swf > killer > soloq
Idk how I feel about it being survivor sided. I’ve gone against survivors that do gens quickly but that’s about it. What I’ve noticed the more and more I play is that if u remove each sides meta perks the players are absolute dog water. As a killer I’d be 2king without tunneling and playing on autopilot in the normal mode. In Chaos Shuffle, autopilot, no tunneling or camping, random perks, no addons, effortless 4k. It’s not that I’m insanely cracked, it’s just that the other side relays too heavily on perks
It’s been mostly fine for me on both sides but i have noticed an increase in hard tunneling when okay survivor. It’s fine but just what i’ve personally noticed
I started the cycle. I’m sorry Scott. I just HAD to get my archive achievement.
I have generally been having great time with chaos shuffle the lack of quad slowdown makes doing gens less annoying but I'm running into so many survivors who just farm unhooks in front of the killer and expecting not to get tunneled it and yell at the killer for tunneling me even tho they farm me. 😭
Another factor could be that most new players or people who play for fun are playing the normal game mode. Only the people who have played so much dbd that the idea of randomized perks seems fun are the people queuing up for this game mode
had a myers tunnel and ebony mori everyone except a meg who crawled to the edge of the map and bled out lol
My first game last night, there was a sweat god blight who might as well have seen through walls and found me and the other players in like 2 seconds each time he got a hook and we lost in like 5 minutes, but the next two games after were fun meme games and the ghostface and I had a basement party and it was funny, I like chaos shuffle
I played two games yesterday, both as killer, anmd ended up with two kills and two escapes, which I feel is the preferred result, isn´t it? Because both games were challenging but really fun. My first game was as hag in rpd which I´ve completely forgot which perks I had, but the second one is really interesting because I managed to get a completely stealth build as pig on badham, with monitor, dark devotion and game afoot. Definetly didn´t use it as well as I could but I did get some cheeky hits from the stealth. The last perk was Undone which I know is really good slowdown but I tbh I didn´t remember what it did with just the icon until very late in the game so I took very little advantage of it. Fun matches overall tho.
I really like chaos shuffle, i wish it would give 1 slowdown/gen stall guaranteed, then it would feel better.
Maybe it could also guarantee that 2 exhaustion perks are given to the survivor side and then like the 2 other survivors get perks with cooldowns? Idk juat something to make it random, but a little more balanced.