Bc u can easily traverse any obstacle if you really want to tunnel. To other killers tunnel can be much more costly on time, so its not a very viable idea Tbh, in my experience, good nurses dont tunnel as much as they dont need it😂@@ssee5287
@@ssee5287 Most people who hard tunnel play solely to win. So they will use every perk, addon and playstyle to secure a win. Since Nurse is the strongest killer and not as reliant on maps, can avoid bodyblocks, eat through anti tunnel perks etc. they will obviously use her just to give them the last bit of advantage they could possibly get. It also doesn't need much skill to play a Nurse with meta perks and addons since you can ignore a ton of basic game mechanics, arguably making it even easier and less punishing regarding mistakes.
yeah no fr they pretty much did exactly what otz was suggesting. It’s not basekit but as a perk it functions the same way unbreakable and dead hard so. It will scare some killers into not hard tunneling because people can mess with hooks
No they need to completely make it impossible to tunnel it's legit insanely trash this game is slugging and camping and tunneling a trash comp and horror game it failed in both ways @jinxysaberk
This is the type of thing people would say "doesnt fit" or is "too complicated" but then years down the line be "I cant beleieve there was a time without this"
Same argument could be made against Bloodlust, Window blocks, Gen kick limit, basekit Borrowed Time, Anti-Facecamp, etc which all seem unintuitive at first, but all serve for the balance and health of the game
Just have the entity block the hook if you try to hook a survivor the third time on the same target before 4 or 5 total hooks have been met. Ez PZ. until the 4 or 5 hook there can be no kills and final hook. The killers are locked playing the entity's game too after all.
@@notOtzdarva strangely enough, i think hard-tunneling is actively detrimental for most killers because it makes killer blindly chase one survivor. it is also the type of tunneling that is most vulnerable to all survivor perks which includes perks like Decisive strike, Off the record, Made for this with OTR, and Exhaustion perks such as Lithe and Dead hard. The type of tunneling that is most problematic is #1 type of tunneling because it ignores all those perks. this is where you pick 2 survivor and alternative chase survivor 1/2 until survivor 1 and 2 dies. there is no incentive for killer to go after survivor 3/4 because it is waste of time. This also prominent strategy with perks like Nowhere to hide or BBQ which locate survivors for the killer to tunnel them off death hook. While this can be countered by 4 distortions, it is also impractical for soloq to counter it.
My favourite part about this is that if by some stroke of _seriously_ bad luck the killer hooks the same guy three times in a row without meaning to do that - this doesn't punish him in any way. The only way to _actually_ be *punished* by this mechanic is to ACTIVELY WANT TO tunnel out the survivor, because now it's harder to do that, but if you're just playing the game then it doesn't matter - you hooked thrice and you have three hooks, the game goes on the same way for you as it would've gone normally, which is awesome
That’s how I feel about decisive. An old friend of mine once complained to me about decisive, and with the perk at that time my response was “it’s only active for a minute after they’re unhooked. I’m relieved when people have decisive strike, because there aren’t many situations I actually want to hook a survivor that quickly.” I’m here to have fun and want others to have that opportunity too. I want to work for my plays! They thought the perk was active for 3 minutes, so they did change their mind.
Interestingly, in the DbD Board Game, Survivors cannot be eliminated from the game. Instead, the Killer wins when they score enough Sacrifice progress. Additionally, the Killer gains one bonus Sacrifice progress the first time each Survivor is caught. This means, hooking all Survivors once each is equivalent to hooking one Survivor SEVEN TIMES.
@@neferov Tl;dr, the first time a Survivor is hooked in the board game, the Killer gets an extra sacrifice progress. Longer explanation: the Killer needs 8 sacrifice progress to win, and gets 1 sacrifice progress for every Survivor that is hooked at the end of their turn (the Killer always goes last). Due to the rules of the game, if a Survivor is hooked for the first time, the Killer gets an instant sacrifice progress, and since the Killer moves last no one can rescue the Survivor before they get a sacrifice progress, giving the Killer 2 progress for one Survivor. Personal opinion: the board game is much better than the video game, play it (even if you prefer the video game, the board game is still worth playing).
@@neferov When you're hooking the one survivor, you still get the first hook bonus once, so 2 on the first hook and then another 6 hooks on the same survivor for a total of 1+6=7
For me one of the most problematic thing in this game is that, the devs wants the killers to not hook the same survivors over and over again, but the killer is not rewarded for playing well, comiting to chases, loses 2 or 3 gens on the start, at this point the killer will tunnel because there's no way hooking the other 3 survivors will give him a kill, most likely he will lose fast, while behaviour tries to nerf some killer's strategy without incentive to hook the 4 survivors, tunnel will only grow stronger
Exactly they want survs to always have a fun time but are ok when a killer loses 3 gens on the first chase, make deadlock base kit make gens take longer
@@doomslayer8025 I would like to have basekit something like every time you hook a different survivor the generator with the most progress is blocked by 12 second, a grim brace and deadlock like effect
I think another thing that could help promote multi hook gameplay is taking the old BBQ and Chili effect and making it basekit. Each time you hook a fresh survivor you gain a stackable Bloodpoint bonus. So even if you don't inherently win you would gain a lot more bloodpoints for playing in a way that is widely considered more fun and helps the grind for everyone, both new and old players. It would tell new players "oh, I should go for multiple people so I can level up faster" while old players gain more points to work towards their prestige 100s or add-on collection.
Thats actually a great idea, playing on bloodpoints reward. Most hard tunnelers are players with no sense of empathy, greed is a great option. They have fun by gaining more bps, survivor have fun while playing a game thats actually fun @otzdarva, whatcha think
if hard tunneling still regularly leads to 4Ks and getting 4 fresh hooks then I don't see why people would stop hard tunneling even with the bp incentive.
Bloodpoint incentives ARE NOT a good solution to balance issues. People want to win more then get points and bbq did not do anything to prevent tunneling as in a 3v1 you still hook the other people and get the points anyways since you will most likely win.
For me, the biggest thing is a lack reward for going after multiple survivors. You win by killing, and with how fast a game can go many times ensuring someone dies quickly makes the most sense. We take away camping, 3-genning, and then tunneling, well then incentivize the killer to go after everyone. A 30 second basekit corrupt so 2-3 gens aren't lost right after first chase, basekit old BBQ granting you bonus BP for hooking each person, basekit dying light that goes away when someone dies. Ideally we would rebalance to be like the board game, the killer can win from sacrificing enough, meaning the killer more likely wins by hooking each survivor a couple times even if many don't die. The entity feeds off of suffering anyways so it could make sense. Meaning you have to balance for the killer being able to on average win 6-8 chases for 6-8 hooks instead of winning 3-4 chases for 2 kills.
A basekit BBQ BP bonus would be neat, but having just the rewards for not tunneling is not enough. Like, we already have perks that give massive advantage for hooking unique survivors, and people still tunnel even with them. We probably need both the carrot and the stick
@@bohdanpyzh2712 Basekit BBQ could maybe only work on NON-HOOKED survivor. Talking abour incentive to make "fresh" hook instead of punishing is WAY better!
Best advice is git gud. Use Windows of opportunity. Off the record, DS,etc. Just be a general nuisance to invest time catching. Can't remember the last time I got tunneled.
Maybe I’m mistaken, but doesn’t it actually benefit killers AND survivors if a match is not finished quickly? It gives more opportunities to chase, kick gens, attack survivors more, crush any active totems, etc?
Honestly with they coding for the game? I highly doubt they could implement this without breaking the game for months lmao. Would be nice tho. (just thinking about the recent gen issue with someone dc'ing due to 2v8 has me in shivers)
Patch tunneling? Theres literally no reason thats the whole point of the game is killing survivors sure its mean but your a freaking MONSTER EVIL KILLER not a freaking angel
Hey Otz, I don't dislike the idea, but i think a better solution would be this: When a killer hooks a survivor 3 times, their game automatically gets uninstalled, his IP is posted in the DBD forums and they are put in an FBI watchlist. Let me know what you think!
@@DanCampbellGuitarNo you're missing the point. Without bridges to keep engineers busy they will all quit and stop making other fancy types of road. All that will be left is normal roads.
@@Ashy_Slashy3don’t matter it still applies to this video. The reality is that otz can’t resist sharing his opinion and wants to be heard. Like a little lap dog
one thing i'd love to see to help avoid tunneling on the killer side is a mini BBQ when you hook a survivor because theres been times where soft tunneling feels like hard tunneling because the survivor is just having an awful game where they keep running into me, yes i get it skill issue, but most of the time im only doing it because i have no real information of where the better, unrelated survivors are, if the mini BBQ could tell me where the survivor with the least hook stages were i would have something to work with and it would help with spreading out hooks. for example dwaight gets hooked > i go look for someone, i dont see anyone > dwaight is unhooked > i go find person who unhooked dwaight because i cant find anyone, i find dwaight > proceed to work with what im given, repeated till dead. you could argue i could just ignore them but like... the literal objective is to kill people and if they are having a bad game where i can only find them it sucks for both sides, with the mini BBQ highlighting the survivor for a short duration (5sec? 10sec?) with the LEAST hook stages i would have more reason to go "tunnel" someone else cause i wont be roaming around in the dark
Yeah, or at least add something to the killer ui that shows who has not be hooked for the first 4 hooks and then once all are hooked it repeats itself 2 more times till everyone is dead. Or just give us the damn survivor hook state numbering for killer as well, there is no benefit to killer other than the ones that want to spread hooks or can't be bothered to keep track of who they need for pain res, etc. (P.S. I know the devs think giving killer this will incentivize tunneling but if the killer is gonna tunnel someone they WILL REMEMBER unless all survivors are the same survivor with the same skin).
Yeah this is the situation I find myself "tunneling" most often. I feel bad, but I'm bad at information gathering and unless I have 4 aura reading perks, I just cannot reasonably find other survivors in a good timeframe. I always ran BBQ when it gave blood points specifically because it let me chase someone else across the map and not have the opportunity to tunnel. I found that style of play much more fun, but now BBQ is kind of worthless I just can't justify running it. Having a mini BBQ as basekit would honestly just be a massive quality of life change, at this point.
5 or 10 is more than mini. Real bbq is 4, 6 with lethal. Friends to the end is sorta similar in regards to obsession. Free aura read would be a bit strong. The 2 strongest sets of K perks are slowdown and aura.
Also as I killer main I'd love to have more incentive to get as many hooks as possible rather then to get a kill. There were multiple times I wanted to avoid tunneling and ended up with 8 hooks and no kills just for the game and survivors to call me a loser. Until that changes tunneling is just good business.
@@edward222100 Nah, not even remotely close to the truth. Tunnelling requires zero skill. You're pretty well guaranteed a 4k by resorting to it. Games are far more enjoyable when both sides play with skill. This usually means a game ending in 20-25k+ BP for survivors and 30-35k+ for killer.
There's actually one more type of tunneling. So powerful even BHVR removed it entirely. Bubba used to have different masks and he'd tunnel certain people
Myers never ‘tunnelled’ laurie in the movies, hence why all 3 of his perks are based around not going after the obsession till last xD But nemesis tunnelling stars is fair
I like the idea in general, it will make the game healthier but imo it doesnt tackle the real issue: Tunneling is almost always targeted at the weak link. That's the reason it works. When its a decent player being tunneled, the game usually gets to a winnable 1v3. The issue only rises when its impossible to win because a nurse hard tunneled the baby leon. And especially in solo queue, i cant imagine people taking a burden for a leon who's chase time is 10 seconds.
As a solo queue player, I would totally take a burden for a baby Leon, or any baby survivor. But also as a solo queue player who isn't good at looping (except the 5% time where I am) I just know that if the others are a SWF group, I know none of them would take a burden. Half the time they leave you to die on first stage anyway lol 💀
so then perhaps, people should get better at the game instead of devs introducing mechanics to help new players have more chances at winning, and, at the same time, buffing SWFs
@@maxthmin Then what is the point of playing, if you can get matched with someone who can't handle being tunnelled? Might as well put a concede button in the game so that the rest don't waste their time.
I feel there is a fourth kind of tunneling not mentioned: The "Practically Involuntary" tunneling. When a survivor just essentially throws themselves at the killer over and over, especially when it's intentional (like for suicidal body blocks and/or extra stuns or the like). I do realize that's not really *The Killer* doing the tunneling in that case but half the time the after game chat still loves to shout about like it was! 😅
I think it's still part of the Soft Tunneling one. As it was described as the killer not really wanting to tunnel but circumstances have led to that being the case like the recently unhooked survivor was caught again either by chance or they run into you.
Yes I don't think this qualifies as tunneling at all but I see it all the time while playing as both killer and survivor, and they will always play the victim card and blame the killer for so-called tunneling no matter they fed themselves to the killer.
If you look at the clip with the Adam at the start that’s exactly what was happening. Adam got taken off the hook and had no anti tunnel perks to save himself and he ran into the biggest dead zone on the whole map where there’s nothing so he made it as easy as possible for the killer to tunnel him out. You have to position yourself or go to the right area on the map and make it difficult so the killer will most likely drop chase
There have been cases of survivors not using their basekit bt to run away but instead to tank a hit for the injured rescuer. This is the dumbest thing a survivor can because the rescued survivor is closer to death and now can not use dead hard because of their dumb play. And survivors have screamed at killers for capitalizing on when survivors make this mistake they don’t realize they made themselves the optimal target.
Need to give the killer an actual incentive to spread hooks evenly to compensate. Faster action speeds for killer, slower repair speeds, etc. Let it start small and gradually build to be insane if he’s at 8 hooks no kills. Let it feel *fun* to spread hooks. But yes, I love the idea. I wouldn’t mind seeing a yellow hook timer bar for survivors hooked back to back times, to indicate to his team that he has more time on the hook, and you should do gens for a while before going for the rescue.
@@WittingStudios No, no slowdown anymore. It only makes one side feel more sluggish. As a killer, its not fun if the survivors are just slow. Its much better to shred pallets or get a small haste for some time
I once faced an oni that downed someone, stay in front of the hook, wait in front of the hook for the survivor to unhook themself with the anti facecamping, wait for the endurance to run out, then repeat. i had off the record AND decisiv strike, and it did absolutly nothing, it just delayed my death, but did not prevent the tunneling at all. Was not fun.
I bet the other three escaped though. That’s a huge time commitment on the killer’s part. Not fun for you, but if your teammates know what’s happening, then it’s basically a guaranteed escape for them. If the killer does this, it’s almost a guaranteed loss for him.
@@ImmaculateOtter nope, not even close. While I stayed Alive I did 3 gens, but I got tunneled second... And my team didn't do anything... Ahhh the joy of solo q.
@@ImmaculateOtter not everyone have a team, and so, we play with the monkeys we Can have ... Suite litteraly. To excuse them it was midwich so hard to find gens, but still. In solo q, this issue might be even worse than swf
Imo, if you're going to suggest ways to get rid of every viable strategy killer has, (camping, slugging and tunneling) you should also suggest buffs or incentives for getting hooks on different survivors. Especially when at the higher levels (comp) tunneling is required in the vast majority of scenarios.
I agree with this as a survivor main who plays killer every now and then. Unless I'm playing crazy good players I win almost every game as killer with not a lot of effort as it's pretty easy to tunnel and slug rn. More like it's the 'meta' as they say. Used to be a killer main btw for any weirdos that want to cry. I play trapper and huntress
Nah, Otz' new core fanbase is primarily survivor-sided. That has been happening for at least a year and a half; if he promotes something that would benefit killers, he'll most likely lose some subs
I 100% agree, although I did not go into detail in this video for the sake of brevity. Some changes that could come with this system: nerf to toolboxes, nerf to Reassurance/Camaraderie (slight rework at least), etc.
Exactly, instead of slightly nerfing killer with this proposal (and weaker killers even more) give an incentive for killer to go for fresh hooks. BP increase or base kit 5-10% pain res (that's actually a really small buff), something that would encourage a fresh hook.
No. Killer is handicapped enough already. If you have to resort to slugging, camping, or tunnelling and believe they are viable or even "good" strategies, you likely have little skill as killer. Killer really isn't that difficult to play save for a few with more complicated or complex abilities.
Hey Otz, i dont know if you will see this comment or not, but your concept has fortunately/unfortunately made it into the game, instead of it being a feature, it is now a perk.
Yeah... I'd argue that it is unfortunate that this became a perk. The devs seem to love balance the game with perks that you have to buy first and level up and make it harder for newer players to have.
This games idea of a win needs to change. When the average match is me downing a survivor and two or three gens pop soon after I don’t even feel like playing anymore.
I agree. I tell my friends that when the devs announced the hidden MMR (which is fine), but telling people the condition of what dictates the hidden MMR, ruined how people played the game. I feel like there isn’t as much craziness in matches since people are just trying to escape or kill 3 survivors asap, instead of trying to min max the pip system.
@@razorthewolf18 I kinda like it, if I'm being honest. I'm not good at the game on either side, but as a killer I just play to lose. I hook everybody twice and let them all escape so my MMR doesn't go up and I can keep enjoying myself. My only problem with the MMR system is that it catapults you into higher MMR SO fast if you do well and that ruins the game for me. I'm not a sweatlord that wants to shave 20 years off my lifespan from the stress of high level lobbies so this works for me.
@@SaveMeXenu agreed, new player here and the difficulty because of mmr is so inconsistent. I either go against survivors that essentially feel like bots or I go against survivors that feel like they have 1000s of hours, the latter being for quite a few games where I get absolutely steamrolled. it's so rare that I get a group that is a fun challenge but one I feel I still have a chance of winning. The system feels so flawed, it's like I'm hardly ever matched into my actual skill bracket.
The thing is, you need to tunnel to counter this, and Otz is trying to get rid of the only strategy that works against gen rushing. He always does this
I love how Otz said "I'm done with the game that doesn't take on account proposals of balance" and here we are, this man is still helping, proposing and being creative with this game. THANK YOU OTZ! you are amazing.
As I said at the end of the video, this is just a fun proposal mostly aimed at the community/viewers for discussion. I have zero expectations that they'll make any change like this!
@@notOtzdarva What do you think about a feature where killers get increased movement speed against SWF? 1% against a party of 2, 2% against a party of 3, 3% against a party of 4?
I really like that it disables in endgame, so the killer can at least secure a kill, as always you demonstrate your care for the community, we love you too!
@@notOtzdarvait’s also so much easier on the survivors to accept you were sacrificed for the others to escape when the killer just had a rough game. It happens, and at this point you survived until the game was practically over anyway.
I'm so glad otz feels this way about tunneling. There are lots of ppl who think we should just accept tunneling. The faster we get over it, then the more fun we'll have. The thing is, we should not accept unhealthy mechanics. I play killer, and I regularly lose because I don't tunnel. It feels like complete dog water to lose because I didn't get someone out the game fast enough.
I play killer and I never tunnel anyone but I usually win, it just depends on the survivors and the killer u use, or the perks, there are a lot of variables that can change how a match goes extremely, I can say tunneling is not always needed to win a game, not even 50% of games require tunneling to win normally
@@yeraafthis EXACTLY idk why so many killers don’t understand this game is VERYYY rng sided. If you’re getting stomped on killer most of the time it’s not just the survivors out to get you but also the map. Killer mains would have more fun if they just accepted this fact
yeah there are definitely those matches where i hooked 4 different survivors 1 time each when the last gen pops. then as they are all teabagging at the exit gates im cursing myself for not tunnelling.
@@chasef6840imagine saying the map is out to get…tunnel when necessary not when you’re angry or being mean….if after a chase that lasted just 30 seconds and 2 gens are 99’ed at 3 gens left and Mach survivor has been hooked once then pls lemme tunnel cause if I don’t I get bragged at gate or literally have to sweep survivors of the map to prevent them from holding the game
I really like the idea of making the gaming more mid-late focused and not making the outcome so often decided in tge first couple minutes, which you touched briefly on but would seriously be a huge improvement for both winning and losing side.
@@afm369 yeah, one player who has at least one hook state can now be moried if you go out of your way to hook all 4 survivors, encouraging that playstyle while slightly disincentivizing tunnel one person out of the game.
I like the idea when it comes to turbo tunneling Nurses and Blights, but I don't like the idea because it could also impact weaker killers in certain scenarios. Picture a Freddy that hooked a Dwight two times, and who tried to chase someone else but had to abandon chase once or twice because of failed mindgames or main buildings and now there's one gen left. He patrols the gens and sees the injured Dwight on one of them. Now the only chance to turn the game around (a quick chase and getting rid of 1/4 of the team) is actually nonexistant and he might as well give up completely. Chasing someone else doesn't make sense at this point and if he commits to chasing Dwight he'll have another second hook stage to eat through. Even if this mechanic doesn't work when all gens are powered his team can just wait for him to get hooked before popping the final gen and maybe even allowing a 4-man-out.
by then the killer already lost the game... the pity 1 kill just isn't fair to the Dwight at all just because the killer couldn't manage to down even 1 of the other 3 players...
@@natjam0205 Yeah, but I'm talking about the weak killers here. It's not that hard to loop a Myers or Freddy for quite a while. At this point you could just as well argue that the killer already lost the game by chosing to not play a stronger killer
I also have a suggestion. Against genrush. Instead of noed, if several generators are started and there is no hook, the survivors going to be followed by AI like zombies for a short time and you can add nurses for the pyramidhead, werewolfs for Dracula, rocketlauncher for nemesis, demodogs for demogorgon, facehuggers for alien, It would look very cool.
Anti camp doesn't work most of the time when killer can just be outside the range to proxy camping. And 2nd, what's gen rush? Ya saying like everyone bringing good toolbox with bnb to rush it. What should survivors do when others are getting chased then? Since at high mmr every minutes is important so people trying to play more efficiently. Yet there's many cases where solo Q team takes forever to do a single gen while they are busy doing totems and chests. Which killer sure loves those cuz they slow the game down passively for them. There's a difference between gen rushing and players play effectively
I rarely play killer, but whenever I come across and downing the same person I just chased and hooked, I tend to just leave them there to check gens to give them a chance to come back, because I know how much of a pain in the ass it is to get tunneled off hook or just mere minutes after being unhooked. And half the time I still come out on top and get a 2-3k and sometimes a 4k.
"soft tunneling" is not tunneling. If you call it tunneling any time someone is hooked twice in a row, no matter the time or events in between, you're gonna be more pissed at the game.
There is also blamed tunnelling : when the survivor sees your playing a killer they don't like and immediately just gives up and follows you everywhere and won't go away and insists you kill them and you finally do so they go away and everyone else in the game thinks you hard tunnelled 😂
I had an idea: What if gen times were just a little bit longer and every survivor starts the match with a buff that makes them do generators faster as well. They lose this buff on their first hook. This simply makes it so if you decide to tunnel someone you have three survivors running around who can do generators really quickly and you Will simply lose on time. But if you spread it out You eliminate this buff and can actually turn those gen times against them. Theoretically you could also make it so that each survivor gets a minor stack for every other survivor that hasn't been hooked. This would make it so even hooking two survivors would make it better on yourself as killer.
1:04 i usually catch myself soft tunneling quite often as a killer that it's gotten to a point where i just slug. Mainly to give that survivor a chance to play a bit longer and I don't really think it's fair to punish someone who just got off a hook. So usually i will try to just slug that person and find someone else but that's just me. Also the fact that most survivors will cry about anything and call it tunneling so i just watch myself when i hook players so I won't hear the crybaby false accusations.
this is honestly the best suggestion i’ve heard in awhile. not only does it force the killer to “hook” multiple people, but it denies killers who slug to tunnel. it is not uncommon for me to take a down for a survivor being hard tunneled out, only to be left on the ground, and then the killer gets the kill and a hook on me. this mechanic would deny that to the killer, because not only would i not have to take that down and be useless on the ground for the next several minutes, but i could just take burden and force the hook state onto me instead of the tunneled survivor for a total of 1 additional hook state rather than 2 + a kill. wonderful idea.
This is genuinely the best solution I've heard. It's very much in line with the 3 gen and anti-camp mechanics, where it only triggers in the most egregious examples.
I came up with this idea myself too! I called it “center of attention” and it was a way to make players with no hooks take a hook state if a killer is hard tunneling. I hope BHVR can implement something like your idea.
@@Aventurine-v2q Any scenario where the anticamp feature is triggered for the survivor. The current anticamp does very little to deter. BHVR should ensure the person being camped doesnt die if they actually want to discourage it. If the hook state freezes and gens speed up, all the gens get done and that person will be able to unhook themselves and run right out, as it should be.
purposefully wait till the first hook stage is about to be done, then use the anticamp bar. if you keep waiting till the last second, it gives the other survivors more time to do the gens
@@chubbswab proxy camping is a thing. Also this wouldn't really solve Bubba's kit for tunneling. As he can easily chainsaw both the unhooker and the hooked person twice through their borrowed time, then just hook the unhooker first before he re-hooks the other person to bypass Otz's idea.
Otz the real answer to every one of these issues is to SIMPLY MAKE A RANKED QUEUE AND A CASUAL QUEUE! YOU, Otz have the power to speak to devs as a frog whisperer, please mention this idea
I think a fair compromise would be to get rid of the unhook notification for the killer just like in 2v8 mode. Currently there are two ways to tell if a survivor was unhooked, the big loud bubble notification and the hud, get rid of the bubble notification, but keep the hook/unhooked status of survivors on the hud. When a killer leaves the hook to go find someone else and then gets a huge loud notification saying “HEY! I’M OVER HERE!” Of course they’re going to go back to hook, but if unhooks were silent and they had to pay attention to the hud, a lot of the times they may not notice if they are on the trail of someone else. This wouldn’t exactly help hard/purposeful tunneling I guess, but it would help soft tunneling a lot.
Exactly this, killers should be able to pay attention to the statuses of each survivor. We already should to check who’s injured or healed, who’s affected by killer powers or not, and even if someone becomes broken when someone heals or they’re unhooked. It’s a huge part of the game.
I really like this idea! I like how you themed it into the game, burden is a pretty good name for it. I just feel a prompt is probably a bit awkward, yet the most seamless I suppose!!
Burden deactivates after the 2nd gen is completed. I played a trapper game today, I had a really lucky spawn on Skull Merchant map variant. I placed a trap and found an AFK SURV, gold on my eyes. I down the surv and I have NO TIME to hook her on a scourge, that the first gen pops and I don't use the pain resonance stack. Ok they had good perks. She got saved, and bodyblocked me on a thight space with off the records. I hit her lose the track of the other surv (I wasn't near the hook, this took me around 30 seconds), and decide to "tunnel her". I hit her after she pallet camped shack and another really good jungle jim pallet and then try to hook her, 1 pain res stack is gone, but another gen is completed. I try to intercept the 3rd gen from popping but that's usless they complete it in my face. I injure a surv then go back to the hook, I'm down at 2 gens and I have only 2 hook stages so I have to tunnel out to have any chance of winning, and that's what I do, the surv LITTERALLY gave up and stood still under the hook, so I down her hook her and I'm litterally at 1 gen already, if Burden was a thing, I would've lost that game due to HEAVY gen rush, 10 total perks of gen speed + 4 purple tool boxes. Game lasted around 4 mins and 35 seconds for all 5 gens to be completed. And this is why my initial mindset was NOT to tunnel but play as my usual mixed hooks then kill atleast after the 6th hook stage. Burden needs to be balanced around gen speed, and gens should take a bit more if Burden is implemented.
Let me get this straight: you're at 1 gen & 3 hooks while survivors are AFK or killing themselves under hooks, and therefore hard tunneling shouldn't be prevented? 1. Skill issue. 2. If, for the sake of argument, we say it's not a skill issue, that killer needs buffs. It has nothing to do with hard tunneling. A gen speed penalty for taking burden would be counterproductive as that just gives killers another incentive to hard tunnel.
it fixes nothing. I think that the first survivor should get "burden" from all other 3 survivors potentially resulting in 6 hooks to kill the first survivor who is being tunneled. THAT will deter this. Having to hook someone 4 times is barely a blip for the hard tunnelers. It's still killing someone 4-8 hook stages early. Allowing the tunneled survivor to get 3 extra hook states WILL deter this because it will require the killer to stay way too close to the hook for them to stop the gens. They also need to lower the anti-camp required time and distance. I have been getting camped a lot where the killer stands JUST far enough away to make sure I don't get to get off the hook, and the timer is paused if another survivor is near, which means he can come closer again. it's basically only useful against the assholes who don't know how it works yet.
@@JathTech what? Did you read what they said? They're saying that tunneling is still too easy for killers even with Otz's suggestion. People who enjoy hard tunneling aren't gonna stop tunneling unless you motivate them lol
Killers should have some type of base kit mechanic that extends the game every hook stage. A few ideas I have which would obviously need to be workshopped would be a base kit gen regression per hook state, allowing the killer to have a little more breathing room. Let's be honest the reason people tunnel to get 3 out is because 3v1 is much less stressful. The current state of the game practically encourages tunneling at a high level. Another idea would be the entity blocking unhook for 10-15 seconds after hooking so that immediate resets dont happen. The killer should feel like pressure is taken off the game every time they hook someone the same way getting someone put of the game is for tunneling to truly address the issue in my humble opinion. One thing is for sure, It doesn't feel good to get tunneled or tunnel.
While I actually like this idea I would also rather address tunnelling the other way round. If we continue this trend of giving survivors a million second chances, playing killer feels like it’s becoming more and more restrictive although this idea overall isn’t bad by any means. I’d much rather have a change to gen speeds so that tunnelling doesn’t feel as NECESSARY to win matches sometimes. While this doesn’t fix the people that tunnel out of spite if u didn’t feel like u needed to do it then the vast majority of players would be doing it way less often
This is cool and all, except people will still tunnel even if gens took 10 minutes AND it's not really a "second chance" if your basically downed before even getting that chance.
@@ChamplooMusashi Yeah, 2+ years ago... Since then survivors also got basekit BT, increased hook stages to 70s meaning more time on gens, countless perks to counter tunneling and ESPECIALLY camping, the anti-camp mechanic, countless perks to lower the charges of gens, the gen kick limit, and a nerf to EVERY single gen regression perk in the game. Meanwhile the nerf to gen times were from 80s to 90s. And mind you, toolboxes remain untouched since then so you can still choose to bring an item that let's you do gens in 40 seconds alone, and completely replenish and reuse the toolbox.
@@ChamplooMusashi Im so sorry, I apologize for not liking that survivors can finish a gen in 25 seconds as soon as a match starts. You know what thats on me, BHVR should speed that up to 15 seconds.
@@D-Doc-C youre saying that like killers never got buffs. What about the basekit killer buff and basekit surv nerf? Hit attacks cooldown was reduced, speedboost on hits was shortened for survivors. Sloppy butcher buff, all medkits were killed, healing generally took a big L with nerfs of COH, self care, botany, etc. Among that, gens were made 10seconds longer and now gen tapping doesnt exist (8-kick mechanic doesnt lose you games, so this mechanic buffed killers while removing 3gen situations that went on long. You can still 3 gen, just not for long). Hooks respawn, which now means no deadzones anymore. Its also not anti camp, its anti FACEcamp. Killers can still proxy or just camp from distance with hatchets/chainsaw/anything basically. They removed the "if i stand here ur dead", not camping generally. Choosing to bring an item for gens means that sure, the first gen flies, but then you have no item for the trial. No healing, no sabos, no auras, no hatch, nothing. And youre talking about a perk that requires you to: empty an item > run to a locker > hide for a while. Its wasted time. Theres a reason its not meta. Its not just "when i open my eyes this toolbox is full again". Thats a perk slot. And a single pain res stack shits on your toolbox. And nerf doesnt mean dead. The gen regression nerfs did nothing. Pain res was crazy OP and is still meta. Pop is still meta. Ruin was buffed. And they buffed grim. Which is now meta. Youre purposely closing your eyes at all buffs and then focus on killer nerfs. Why?
Most of the time I Tunnel because survivors make me do it. Either they force me to hit them because they body block and maybe have DS or OTR, or they rescue near me and either rescuer hides or goes to a strong part of the map and expects me to waste time instead of just going for the easier down
If someone bodyblocks in the open, just walk around them. If someone bodyblocks in a tight space hit them. Typically, if a survivor is willing to take a hit after being unhooked, that is a clear confirmation to being tunelled and you are in the right for hooking them
@@matthenley3886Sometimes that's the *only* down. If I run into the unhooked and the saviour is nowhere to be found, I'm not going to leave and look for them unless I'm already ahead (and that has also backfired, so it's not a certainty).
@@D-Doc-C its hard to walk around a bodyblock. unless youre playing like trickster, huntress, or gunslinger i dont really see a way to effectively avoid a good bodyblock. good survivors can become brick walls
It won't work. Let's say I tunnel the 1st player and the 2nd player takes on the 1st hook stage, I continue to tunnel the first player because he can be easily killed due to the fact that he is an easy target and the fact that I hook him 4 times instead of 3 times means nothing because the survivors they still have to take it off the hook, which means that someone won’t be repairing the generators. At the same time, having killed the first player, I now have a 2nd player with ALREADY one hook stage, which makes him an excellent target for continuing tunneling. On the other hand, the same story as with "Off the Record" and "DS" immediately after the hook starts clowning with the killer. Now such a survivor will be able to withstand 2 hits and then jump off with the help of "DS" and after that, after another hit, the killer will not can pick it up and hook it because it activates this mechanic. And what should I do with it now? He sat down in front of me to repair the generator. What im need to do now?
I think the core problem of the whole Tunneling, proxy camping, and slugging debate is just that survivors are way too fast at doing things. I'll preface this by sating I'm still fairly new and I'm limited to the free killers & the free killer perks. Tunneling: it really feels like if a survivor isn't dead at 2-3 gens then you better hope that you have a good 3 gen set up or NOED or else your lucky to get even a 1 or 2 k. I usually don't single 1 person and instead ping pong between 2 but according to survivors that still tunneling. Proxy Camping: even though I have sloppy butcher survivors can just get unhooked and heal back to full in seconds, so going back to the hook either after they unhook or to delay an unhook will help slow the reset, get a trade, or really just ensure that at least half the team isn't just cranking out generators. Slugging: when a survivor can literally touch a hook for a second and sabotage it through me hitting them I'm just gonna leave the survivor I was carrying on the ground. Cause even though it's still not a hook it still provides the general pressure of a hook in that they need to be picked up. Also when you have those clicky survivors baiting a pickup helps to catch them out. All these ensure that at least half of the survivors aren't doing gens which at the end of the day is what wins or losses games. So I think the solution isn't to buff survivors like you suggested or to nerf survivors but to give the killer some incentive to hook everyone once as a basekit. For instance they could implement a sort of demoralization token system where for each time a unique survivor is first hooked you get blanket game slowdown so that at 4 first hooks gen speed, sabotage, and healing are quartered to mimic being down a survivor. Second hook gives a token only if all survivors are first hooked and never if they go into stage 2. Cap it at half speed for gens etc at all 8 stacks to mimic being down 2 survivors. After a survivor is killed lose 4 tokens. Of course other perks would need to change to account for the additional slowdown but with a system like that the killer would need to go out of their way to get all the tokens but wouldn't auto lose the game. It also doesn't completely invalidate camping, tunneling, slugging as it only takes 3 hooks instead of 4 but gives less incentive to do so as other slowdown would be weaker. It also plays into the lore of the trials being a way to harvest negative emotion for the entity, and it helps lessen the whole pay to win feeling of the killer perks.
The issue is that there’s good a good reason for the tunneling, I find that every match without corrupt intervention I lose two gens in one chase even if the chase is normally short but you have to waste a perk slot and not only that but the perk itself was nerfed so that after the first down it goes away, even if that survivor somehow manages to get off either through pallet save, sabotaging hooks, or flash lighting. So when people start rushing gens I need to start rushing kills no matter the cost because it’s the only counter to the fast gens. If people want more chases tell them to post on dbd forms that there needs to be other side objectives or another perk slot for killers.
The only minor modification I’d make to this mechanic is that any survivor can take burden while the tunneled survivor is on second hook, rather than it being a proximity thing. Otherwise, I think it’s possible that people wouldn’t want to go for the unhook because they’d feel like they’re obligated to take a potential hook stage. It would also make for interesting strategizing for organized survivors on who is going to take the burden
Well I think the problem with that is a lot of survs will farm their soloq teammates with unhooking in the killers face and not taking hits or trying to bodyblock, thus effectively helping the killer tunnel with the early unhook. The person going for the unhook should def be responsible for the burden so they'll unhook more responsibly imo.
I think it's fair. If no one on the team wants to take a single hook stage for your teammate then they all deserve to lose. After all playing as survivor should require teamwork and some selfless plays.
@@GloomySpooks There's already basekit BT and anticamp, though. It's pretty hard to unhook irresponsibly anymore. If the killer is proxying and specifically decides to go after the person who got unhooked, sure, the person on the hook could get tunneled, but that is exactly what this mechanic seeks to prevent, and in that situation the survivors have no choice but to unhook anyway.
I love the idea but I see 2 problems here. First is mori will become way more valuable and killer wanting to tunnel could still do it anyway (2 hooks then kill) the burden would not affect it. Second is that the burden should deactivate after a certain number of gens are done because at some points when a game goes bad early and you get loop for 3-4 gens (skill issue or not) you would like to play the rest of the game 3v1. These are the main problems I see, feel free to tell me your opinion. ❤
I'd actually propose something else: normal hook for stage one, stage two as well, stage 3 they get caged randomly on the map since they're being tunneled and full health when rescued. That would completely discourage the killer from tunneling the same survivor, regardless of their level of gameplay. You wouldn't have to worry about the perks or the killer. If you wanna tunnel, you get the Adrenaline Punishment. It's very fixable and the mechanic is already there.
The main issue is just the incomparable advantage of turning a 1v4 into a 1v3. I think that's where something needs to change. For example, every time someone dies, the Gen speed could be improved permanently. That way the difference between a 1v4 and 1v3 isn't as huge as it currently is and killers don't feel like if they don't hard tunnel, the gens just fly too fast. Obviously this would have to come with a compensation buff for killers like increased Gen timers in general, but at that point it's just numbers changes.
I think that a small change that would be nice is if the emblem system was tweeked so that devout soley awarded points related to unique survivors hooks, hooking a different survivor than the last and hook interactions--not kills (except pig traps). At 8 hooks with no dead survivors would result in iridescent or high gold but tunneling or having a survivor go into second stage would decrease points, resulting in a lower grade and less bloodpoints. If someone playing for 8 hooks would accidentally hook the same person twice or have someone get to second stage, the 4 remaining death hooks would give enough points for iridescent, but if you were deliberately tunneling/camping you would get nothing or bronze. Maybe for the chaser emblem you would get points for your next hit being on a different survivor and for malicious you'd get a big bonus of points for having a survivor off hook healed as opposed to decreasing points as it does currently. Additionally, while all of these healthier styles of gameplay award much for bloodpoints, camping/tunneling would result in less, i.e. first hook on survivor equals bunch of points, they get tunneled and put back on hook equals very little bloodpoints, tunneled again and killed equals no bloodpoints. While these changes will make getting merciless killer easier, and possible without killing, it would incentive the average game to be more fun orientated. Plus I was always under the assumtion that the lore was about the thrill of the hunt as opposed to the act of killing anyways, so merciless killer with all alive still works in my books. This would be a positive reinforcement of the most fun way to play, because if the community was to realize that to win in an asymmetrical game, you don't need the other side to loose would greatly help the health of game. Of course this doesn't fix the problem, but I think this kind of positive reinforcement could help create a healthier game state. TLDR: Change the emblem system so that tunneling/camping results in not enough to pip and less bloodpoints, and give more bloodpoints and pips to playing the game for 8 hooks no kills, making that the new killer win condition.
Then you have to balance the game around that. I get the idea, but 12-hooking can be very hard against really good survivors. Most people want to win, so saying they get less points now means the ones who want to win play the same, and those who focus on points lose more. I am all for making hooks apart of the killer's win condition, but then that requires 6-8 hooks meaning 6-8 chases won to be the average for killers compared to 2 kills which could be like 3-4 chases.
@@KingsNerdCave I definitely agree 12 hooks is hard against good survivors, but then shouldn't it be? Devisive victory against a strong team should be hard. That's why I suggest the win condition be 8 hook interactions, because winning 8 chases in a match for a merciless killer, the highest pip award, should be at least somewhat challenging, but still a realistic goal that incentivizes fun. Focuses on the kills results in 2 kills in 6 or less hooks and that typically isn't fun for either side and not very skilled. You do make a good point with the points though, maybe instead of giving less points you get a large bonus for 8 hook interactions with none dead/one dead. Whatever the end result it needs to be significant enough that people would prefer to go out of the way to play like this though. I don't know, I feel that this overall plays into kills being the metric of a killer win and the mentality of "to win the other side must lose". Because the best way to ensure 4 kills is to tunnel the weakest link out then use that pressure to get someone else then slug for the 4k. However, with 8 hook interactions where you are incentivized to go after someone different than the last, your better off looking for other survivors and getting into chases than you are sitting at the hook waiting for 70 seconds.
I think this is a great idea but if this "Burden" disables automatically after hooking another survivor once, it doesn't prevent the killer from just hooking one survivor and then tunneling the previous survivor again, and 4 hooks just becoming the new norm for hard tunnelers. I think a way this could be buffed would be: if another survivor is hooked after burden is set, start a 60s timer that will disable burden, or until the player that placed the burden is hooked, whichever happens first. This would give more leeway for that survivor to recover and make the placing of burden more tactical, since you'd probably either want to hide who placed burden or make a survivor that's very good at chases have it.
That nerfs killer too much to a point where people will begin intentionally getting hooked in that state. You’re right that it will increase hard tunnelling to 4 hooks but unfortunately this is probably the best solution. There will always be people that abuse the most meta part of any game and right now it’s not that tunnelling is so rewarding that’s the problem, it’s more in my opinion that the incentive and reward for spreading hooks, barring a few perks, is just too weak.
This could be golden for solo queue, but likely abusable by good SWF teams by making deliberately forcing you to tunnel one good chase-oriented person who will be all over your face after he is on two hook stages. Im suprised you didn't mention that aspect in the video...
@@DeathstarsEG I missed that, my bad, but the question still stands for SWFs, you are correct. This has been long overdue, SWFs are too powerful, they should really be getting some sort of debuff to gen speed or the like. Check who is in SWF in the lobby and apply it to them, leaving the random solo queue players untouched.
This seems like a non-concern. Survivor teams can already try to get you to chase the strongest survivor. If you decide you want to tunnel that person, though, you're basically throwing. That would not change at all with this new system. It would of course be an even worse idea to hard tunnel a survivor whether it's the strongest or weakest one, but that is the entire point of this mechanic.
@MagicNash89 I disagree most swfs aren't these P100 gods that are going to be looping you the entire game. They are usually just two friends wanting to have fun with each other and in my experience tend to be pretty mediocre when it comes to gameplay, I guarantee you get a lot more swfs as killer than you think you do. Your game should never directly punish people for wanting to play with their friends, it's just not smart in the long run.
@@notstarboard well i mean if you want to lose the game you can always just ignore the bodyblocker right? No one is forcing you, you just lose because you have a person blocking you for 80s and longer. You are definitely high or just dont get the game
Here's my fix. When endurance runs out, whether by time or taking a hit off hook, if the killer is in chase with the unhooked survivor, the survivor gains 10% haste with hidden scratchmarks/blood for 5 seconds and the killer receives a 5% hinder UNLESS it's due to the two survivors staying together within x meters so they can't exploit it. If using your idea, I'd make Burden a perk. "If you are hooked 3 consecutive times, your hook progress stays at 2nd stage for your third hook, gain 5% haste and instant heal of one health state once unhooked"
Yeah man 15 seconds of immunity and 3 teammates to take a protection hit for you definitely aren't enough lol, if definitely isn't a skill issue, it's the devs' fault bro!
Survivors are OP AF, Tunneling is part of the game, if you don't like it, make fixing gens take longer than a couple of seconds. Also if the survivors are stupid enough to unhook in front of me, I can tunnel if I choose to. Don't cry, it's your own doing... PS If I'm tunneling, do gens, stop hanging around me like a bunch of headless chickens doing jack shit, pretending you're noob 3 or Ayrun or whoever. Stop crying. Zero sympathy.
So, we need to stop hard tunnelling in order to avoid making the game unfun for Survivors. That's fair enough. I mean, let's forget perks like Reassurance and just transfer hook states instead. But what about avoiding an unfun game for Killers? What's the suggestion for gens popping back-to-back or flashlight/sabo teams? Do we make Deadlock base-kit with the perk extending its timer? How about putting a cap on the number of times a gen can be touched? If the cumulative touching of a gen reaches 8 then the gen cannot be repaired any further with glowing barbed wire added as a visual effect. Perhaps we should add a meter that fills up if other Survivors get too close to a Killer carrying a Survivor? Upon activation the carried Survivor will be auto hooked. Maybe increasing gen repair time some more so that the Killer doesn't have to leave their current focus in a hurry? Afterall, this is a game with 2 sides to cater to, right?
I was playing both yesterday and both sides have so many miserable things to go against. And its like the more the stuff they add the more miserable the game gets. Case in point the new flashlight perks, chem trap, the newest map, and dracula is so unfun to go against he has so much in his kit, its insane.
@@knightsaber3155 But it is to some degree. Otz asked for opinions. And my opinion is that the game has 2 opposing sides, each with their own annoyances and dislikes; much like the reply above you pointed out. So, if you only focus on improving things for 1 side then you will undoubtedly make it a horrible experience for the other. Otz made his suggestion with no counter-balancing suggestion. How many vids do you see on YT suggesting ways to make the game less of a sweat for Killers? I play both sides and something that worked well in 2v8 mode was hooked Survivors teleporting across the map if the Killer got too close. I feel this would work better than an unhook meter, and they can also add that the Killer does not get an unhook noise notification from the hook respawn location. That way Survivors get a safe hook rescues and more time to heal safely. And the Killer is free to chase and kill who they want without losing track of hook states.
@@jondoe-du2fr There were killers abusing the teleport mechanics too. When people were going for unhooks the killer entered into the area forcing the teleport and basically forcing a trade except without actually trading. And not knowing where the hook is doesn't matter when maps are so small, so many killers have mobility and the hook is always directly opposite wherever the killer is. On another note the game is just unbalanceable by it's nature as asymmetrical. There's no state that can be reached will satisfy killers that want to 4k every game and survivors that all want to escape. They're just too different.
@@anth9845 I agree with absolutely everything you said. No matter what's done, there will be ways to manipulate it (by either the Killer or Survivors). DbD is an 8 year old game that was designed in such a way that the premise for both Killers and Survivors cannot be adapted much more. Tunnelling is, and always will be, a part of the game. Same with gen rushing, and SWFs being harder to face than solo-q players. Suggesting ways to perfect DbD now is futile.
As a killer I'd still tunnel the same person (probably because they are easiest to down) and now I get a free hook state on a survivor that might be better in chases. This doesn't seem to really do much to stop tunneling, if anything it might promote it.
That's why I'd rather have shared hooks. Once 8 hooks are reached, then sacrificing will happen. 8 hook games every time before kills happen. Yes, I'm a Killer main. But killer has been so brain-dead easy these days. Slugging everyone is even easier
I think this would encourage slugging tho. If you are againt multiple flashlight users and unable to pick up for hooking, your best bet for pressure is to slug everyone and then start putting people on hooks. (Sluggers do this nowadays as well, but having to wait for 8 hook stages makes it more viable strat.) Also not everyone is as good at playing killer as you orbplay S-tier killers that make the game too easy, i play both killer and survivor and most of the time i struggle to get 6 hook stages. (yeah skill issue ez get good noob)
1) Soft Tunneling
2) Deliberately Tunneling
3) Hard Tunneling
4) Demogorgon/Xenomorph Tunneling
🥁 *ba-dum tiss*
@@JakeobE woosh
@@JakeobEthey tunnel under the ground you clown
Was gonna say, "I don't normally see demogorgons tunnel" but then I got the joke...
@@Soapromancer that's true, you don't see demo's tunnels until he uses them
I can't believe we're seriously considering putting thousands of Nemesis players out of their jobs.
Well, they're built to mutate so they'll find a way
Intellectual comment right here.
S.T.A.R.S…
Tunneling STARS members should be the only exception
Those poor zombies are going to get the brunt of their rage.
I love how as soon as "hard tunneling" appears, nurse footage is shown lmao
exactly
But every time I play as Nurse I don’t tunnel 😢
Someone explain to me why is nurse mains r always tunneling when nurse is literally the strongest killer in dbd ?
Bc u can easily traverse any obstacle if you really want to tunnel. To other killers tunnel can be much more costly on time, so its not a very viable idea
Tbh, in my experience, good nurses dont tunnel as much as they dont need it😂@@ssee5287
@@ssee5287 Most people who hard tunnel play solely to win. So they will use every perk, addon and playstyle to secure a win. Since Nurse is the strongest killer and not as reliant on maps, can avoid bodyblocks, eat through anti tunnel perks etc. they will obviously use her just to give them the last bit of advantage they could possibly get.
It also doesn't need much skill to play a Nurse with meta perks and addons since you can ignore a ton of basic game mechanics, arguably making it even easier and less punishing regarding mistakes.
Hard to believe we got a survivor perk that will actually function like this to some degree.
yeah no fr they pretty much did exactly what otz was suggesting. It’s not basekit but as a perk it functions the same way unbreakable and dead hard so. It will scare some killers into not hard tunneling because people can mess with hooks
No they need to completely make it impossible to tunnel it's legit insanely trash this game is slugging and camping and tunneling a trash comp and horror game it failed in both ways @jinxysaberk
@@Ahki_AbuBakrif u dont like it dont play it🙃
So because a bunch of babies have big baby syndrome i should stop playing a game?
@cindin3802
@@cindin3802It makes sense not to play it but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a problem and a good game is bogged down by these problems
This is the type of thing people would say "doesnt fit" or is "too complicated" but then years down the line be "I cant beleieve there was a time without this"
Same argument could be made against Bloodlust, Window blocks, Gen kick limit, basekit Borrowed Time, Anti-Facecamp, etc which all seem unintuitive at first, but all serve for the balance and health of the game
Just have the entity block the hook if you try to hook a survivor the third time on the same target before 4 or 5 total hooks have been met. Ez PZ. until the 4 or 5 hook there can be no kills and final hook. The killers are locked playing the entity's game too after all.
And you end up with first hooked survivor purposefully bodyblocking you, screwing your other chases
Gen rushing needs a nerf then too
@@D-Doc-C I think that would mess with the refular gameplay flow too much, which is one of the things otz was trying to avoid.
Shoutout to every Dracula player using bat to teleport back to the hook and hellfiring to hit the unhooker and the hooked
You can't hit both 100%
@@lXl_SkyNet_lXlYou absolutely can, just like with Pyramid head
@@D-Doc-C never seen that happen
@@lXl_SkyNet_lXl It happened to me in basement in my first match against Drácula, 10/10 experience
@@lXl_SkyNet_lXljust because you’ve never seen it doesnt mean it doesnt happen 😂
Hi otz, I'm here to judge the video before even looking at it. and complain.
chad
NOOOO, DONT DO IT
I respect the hustle.
Based and Trapper pilled.
@@notOtzdarva strangely enough, i think hard-tunneling is actively detrimental for most killers because it makes killer blindly chase one survivor. it is also the type of tunneling that is most vulnerable to all survivor perks which includes perks like Decisive strike, Off the record, Made for this with OTR, and Exhaustion perks such as Lithe and Dead hard. The type of tunneling that is most problematic is #1 type of tunneling because it ignores all those perks. this is where you pick 2 survivor and alternative chase survivor 1/2 until survivor 1 and 2 dies. there is no incentive for killer to go after survivor 3/4 because it is waste of time. This also prominent strategy with perks like Nowhere to hide or BBQ which locate survivors for the killer to tunnel them off death hook. While this can be countered by 4 distortions, it is also impractical for soloq to counter it.
My favourite part about this is that if by some stroke of _seriously_ bad luck the killer hooks the same guy three times in a row without meaning to do that - this doesn't punish him in any way. The only way to _actually_ be *punished* by this mechanic is to ACTIVELY WANT TO tunnel out the survivor, because now it's harder to do that, but if you're just playing the game then it doesn't matter - you hooked thrice and you have three hooks, the game goes on the same way for you as it would've gone normally, which is awesome
Really good point actually
My favorite part about youtube comments is them just disappearing for no apparent reason.
@@apocalypseapbro same
That’s how I feel about decisive. An old friend of mine once complained to me about decisive, and with the perk at that time my response was “it’s only active for a minute after they’re unhooked. I’m relieved when people have decisive strike, because there aren’t many situations I actually want to hook a survivor that quickly.” I’m here to have fun and want others to have that opportunity too. I want to work for my plays! They thought the perk was active for 3 minutes, so they did change their mind.
Interestingly, in the DbD Board Game, Survivors cannot be eliminated from the game. Instead, the Killer wins when they score enough Sacrifice progress.
Additionally, the Killer gains one bonus Sacrifice progress the first time each Survivor is caught.
This means, hooking all Survivors once each is equivalent to hooking one Survivor SEVEN TIMES.
great addition to this conversation, interesting to see they technically have the answer already in a different version of their game
Isn't it 8 times?
@@neferov Tl;dr, the first time a Survivor is hooked in the board game, the Killer gets an extra sacrifice progress.
Longer explanation: the Killer needs 8 sacrifice progress to win, and gets 1 sacrifice progress for every Survivor that is hooked at the end of their turn (the Killer always goes last). Due to the rules of the game, if a Survivor is hooked for the first time, the Killer gets an instant sacrifice progress, and since the Killer moves last no one can rescue the Survivor before they get a sacrifice progress, giving the Killer 2 progress for one Survivor.
Personal opinion: the board game is much better than the video game, play it (even if you prefer the video game, the board game is still worth playing).
@@ethanp3510 sounds fun, no friends to play with though
Still 8 times. 4 hooks + 4 first hook bonus
@@neferov When you're hooking the one survivor, you still get the first hook bonus once, so 2 on the first hook and then another 6 hooks on the same survivor for a total of 1+6=7
For me one of the most problematic thing in this game is that, the devs wants the killers to not hook the same survivors over and over again, but the killer is not rewarded for playing well, comiting to chases, loses 2 or 3 gens on the start, at this point the killer will tunnel because there's no way hooking the other 3 survivors will give him a kill, most likely he will lose fast, while behaviour tries to nerf some killer's strategy without incentive to hook the 4 survivors, tunnel will only grow stronger
Exactly they want survs to always have a fun time but are ok when a killer loses 3 gens on the first chase, make deadlock base kit make gens take longer
@@doomslayer8025 I would like to have basekit something like every time you hook a different survivor the generator with the most progress is blocked by 12 second, a grim brace and deadlock like effect
Yeh like it makes no sense. Why care about not tunnelling when it don’t reward you
@@evangingerson1271 because the surv handbook says rules for me but not for thee
This was the best comment I've seen so far.
I think another thing that could help promote multi hook gameplay is taking the old BBQ and Chili effect and making it basekit. Each time you hook a fresh survivor you gain a stackable Bloodpoint bonus. So even if you don't inherently win you would gain a lot more bloodpoints for playing in a way that is widely considered more fun and helps the grind for everyone, both new and old players. It would tell new players "oh, I should go for multiple people so I can level up faster" while old players gain more points to work towards their prestige 100s or add-on collection.
Thats actually a great idea, playing on bloodpoints reward. Most hard tunnelers are players with no sense of empathy, greed is a great option. They have fun by gaining more bps, survivor have fun while playing a game thats actually fun
@otzdarva, whatcha think
@@Byron_Smart Kids these days have the attention span of a goldfish.
if hard tunneling still regularly leads to 4Ks and getting 4 fresh hooks then I don't see why people would stop hard tunneling even with the bp incentive.
@@afm369 It could turn off as soon as you get your first kill.
Bloodpoint incentives ARE NOT a good solution to balance issues. People want to win more then get points and bbq did not do anything to prevent tunneling as in a 3v1 you still hook the other people and get the points anyways since you will most likely win.
They called him a madman
For me, the biggest thing is a lack reward for going after multiple survivors. You win by killing, and with how fast a game can go many times ensuring someone dies quickly makes the most sense. We take away camping, 3-genning, and then tunneling, well then incentivize the killer to go after everyone. A 30 second basekit corrupt so 2-3 gens aren't lost right after first chase, basekit old BBQ granting you bonus BP for hooking each person, basekit dying light that goes away when someone dies.
Ideally we would rebalance to be like the board game, the killer can win from sacrificing enough, meaning the killer more likely wins by hooking each survivor a couple times even if many don't die. The entity feeds off of suffering anyways so it could make sense. Meaning you have to balance for the killer being able to on average win 6-8 chases for 6-8 hooks instead of winning 3-4 chases for 2 kills.
A basekit BBQ BP bonus would be neat, but having just the rewards for not tunneling is not enough. Like, we already have perks that give massive advantage for hooking unique survivors, and people still tunnel even with them. We probably need both the carrot and the stick
@@bohdanpyzh2712 Basekit BBQ could maybe only work on NON-HOOKED survivor. Talking abour incentive to make "fresh" hook instead of punishing is WAY better!
Best advice is git gud. Use Windows of opportunity. Off the record, DS,etc. Just be a general nuisance to invest time catching. Can't remember the last time I got tunneled.
@@NinjapowerMSdifference is your teammates might not be good so if they get tunnelled it will also ruin the experience for you.
Maybe I’m mistaken, but doesn’t it actually benefit killers AND survivors if a match is not finished quickly? It gives more opportunities to chase, kick gens, attack survivors more, crush any active totems, etc?
If it’s a good idea, Behaviour will probably ignore it
Not probably, for sure they will :)
Fog whisperer is just a title at this point.
Yeah, definitely
Honestly with they coding for the game? I highly doubt they could implement this without breaking the game for months lmao. Would be nice tho.
(just thinking about the recent gen issue with someone dc'ing due to 2v8 has me in shivers)
Patch tunneling? Theres literally no reason thats the whole point of the game is killing survivors sure its mean but your a freaking MONSTER EVIL KILLER not a freaking angel
@@XhristianGaminX it’s a game. Games should be balanced and fun. Tunneling is neither balanced or fun.
Hey Otz, I don't dislike the idea, but i think a better solution would be this: When a killer hooks a survivor 3 times, their game automatically gets uninstalled, his IP is posted in the DBD forums and they are put in an FBI watchlist. Let me know what you think!
They would have no players anymore.
I think its a joke dude@@evangingerson1271
Losing makes you this evil gah damn it’s only a video game lol
Love that idea.
@@mcahtme2977You might not have noticed but this is a joke.
I appreciate that Otz is still making suggestions despite feeling it was pointless earlier. Thank you for your time.
The clear solution to fix tunneling is to remove bridges. Without bridges there are no tunnels. 🧠 📈
Unless there’s a hill or mountain that the tunnel is going through. Yes I had to be the guy to say it.
10/10 meme love it...wait what about mountain pass tunnels? no bridges, tho sometimes they do span two mountain tunnels
@@DanCampbellGuitarNo you're missing the point. Without bridges to keep engineers busy they will all quit and stop making other fancy types of road. All that will be left is normal roads.
Who would want to be an engineer if you can't build bridges?
Otz: Am not gonna suggest anything for the devs anymore
Also Otz:
I'm pretty sure that was for perks and add-ons?
@@Ashy_Slashy3don’t matter it still applies to this video. The reality is that otz can’t resist sharing his opinion and wants to be heard. Like a little lap dog
@@BreezyBulldog I disagree
@@BreezyBulldog “The dbd UA-camr who makes videos on opinions posts his opinions on dbd” do you know how ridiculous that sounds
2/10 ragebait @@BreezyBulldog
one thing i'd love to see to help avoid tunneling on the killer side is a mini BBQ when you hook a survivor because theres been times where soft tunneling feels like hard tunneling because the survivor is just having an awful game where they keep running into me, yes i get it skill issue, but most of the time im only doing it because i have no real information of where the better, unrelated survivors are, if the mini BBQ could tell me where the survivor with the least hook stages were i would have something to work with and it would help with spreading out hooks.
for example dwaight gets hooked > i go look for someone, i dont see anyone > dwaight is unhooked > i go find person who unhooked dwaight because i cant find anyone, i find dwaight > proceed to work with what im given, repeated till dead.
you could argue i could just ignore them but like... the literal objective is to kill people and if they are having a bad game where i can only find them it sucks for both sides, with the mini BBQ highlighting the survivor for a short duration (5sec? 10sec?) with the LEAST hook stages i would have more reason to go "tunnel" someone else cause i wont be roaming around in the dark
Yeah, or at least add something to the killer ui that shows who has not be hooked for the first 4 hooks and then once all are hooked it repeats itself 2 more times till everyone is dead. Or just give us the damn survivor hook state numbering for killer as well, there is no benefit to killer other than the ones that want to spread hooks or can't be bothered to keep track of who they need for pain res, etc. (P.S. I know the devs think giving killer this will incentivize tunneling but if the killer is gonna tunnel someone they WILL REMEMBER unless all survivors are the same survivor with the same skin).
Yeah this is the situation I find myself "tunneling" most often. I feel bad, but I'm bad at information gathering and unless I have 4 aura reading perks, I just cannot reasonably find other survivors in a good timeframe. I always ran BBQ when it gave blood points specifically because it let me chase someone else across the map and not have the opportunity to tunnel. I found that style of play much more fun, but now BBQ is kind of worthless I just can't justify running it. Having a mini BBQ as basekit would honestly just be a massive quality of life change, at this point.
how about using Darkness revealed?
@@angrygamer4120 Killers will grab a notepad if they really want to tunnel
5 or 10 is more than mini. Real bbq is 4, 6 with lethal. Friends to the end is sorta similar in regards to obsession. Free aura read would be a bit strong. The 2 strongest sets of K perks are slowdown and aura.
Also as I killer main I'd love to have more incentive to get as many hooks as possible rather then to get a kill. There were multiple times I wanted to avoid tunneling and ended up with 8 hooks and no kills just for the game and survivors to call me a loser. Until that changes tunneling is just good business.
And also a testament to bad skill by tunnelling people out.
@@KalculatedRisk people that say "bad skill" just dont want people to play the way that doesnt benefit them
@@edward222100 Nah, not even remotely close to the truth. Tunnelling requires zero skill. You're pretty well guaranteed a 4k by resorting to it. Games are far more enjoyable when both sides play with skill. This usually means a game ending in 20-25k+ BP for survivors and 30-35k+ for killer.
@@KalculatedRisk so why do you care if one side is playing with 0 skill??
@@edward222100 If you still can't answer that question yourself, then you're likely part of the problem.
You forgot about the last type of tunneling, lore accurate tunneling. When you tunnel like Laurie as myers or Stars members as nemesis.
Or you tunnel as Xenomorph.
There's actually one more type of tunneling. So powerful even BHVR removed it entirely. Bubba used to have different masks and he'd tunnel certain people
@@sandwich4763or Demogorgon
Myers never ‘tunnelled’ laurie in the movies, hence why all 3 of his perks are based around not going after the obsession till last xD
But nemesis tunnelling stars is fair
Can't forget Mastermind going after CHRRRIIISSS!!!
I like the idea in general, it will make the game healthier but imo it doesnt tackle the real issue:
Tunneling is almost always targeted at the weak link. That's the reason it works. When its a decent player being tunneled, the game usually gets to a winnable 1v3. The issue only rises when its impossible to win because a nurse hard tunneled the baby leon.
And especially in solo queue, i cant imagine people taking a burden for a leon who's chase time is 10 seconds.
As a solo queue player, I would totally take a burden for a baby Leon, or any baby survivor. But also as a solo queue player who isn't good at looping (except the 5% time where I am) I just know that if the others are a SWF group, I know none of them would take a burden. Half the time they leave you to die on first stage anyway lol 💀
so then perhaps, people should get better at the game instead of devs introducing mechanics to help new players have more chances at winning, and, at the same time, buffing SWFs
game needs a proper ranked mode cause there will always be a weak link when queue times are only 30 seconds long
@@maxthmin Then what is the point of playing, if you can get matched with someone who can't handle being tunnelled?
Might as well put a concede button in the game so that the rest don't waste their time.
@@imasterline Which is exactly why sbmm is good (in a way, it's still flawed in other ways)
Have not seen a idea I like this much since the trial warmup. I look forward to seeing it added in 7 years
🤣😆👍
THEY DID IT THEY ACTUALLY LISTENED
Seems like a great idea to add to a licensed DLC perk…
And then nerf a couple weeks later after the initial dlc sales 😂
BRO this is the worst possible scenario please no.
Supernatural chapter, survivor perk. “Crossroad Deal” your soul for theirs
@@BlackJack-mw4ik Dude, dont jinx it please
@@notOtzdarvaWELL WELL WELL
I feel there is a fourth kind of tunneling not mentioned: The "Practically Involuntary" tunneling. When a survivor just essentially throws themselves at the killer over and over, especially when it's intentional (like for suicidal body blocks and/or extra stuns or the like). I do realize that's not really *The Killer* doing the tunneling in that case but half the time the after game chat still loves to shout about like it was! 😅
I think it's still part of the Soft Tunneling one. As it was described as the killer not really wanting to tunnel but circumstances have led to that being the case like the recently unhooked survivor was caught again either by chance or they run into you.
Yes I don't think this qualifies as tunneling at all but I see it all the time while playing as both killer and survivor, and they will always play the victim card and blame the killer for so-called tunneling no matter they fed themselves to the killer.
@@scribdeath7621 Oh I don't think it qualifies either. But yeah, the survivors don't always see it that way lol
If you look at the clip with the Adam at the start that’s exactly what was happening. Adam got taken off the hook and had no anti tunnel perks to save himself and he ran into the biggest dead zone on the whole map where there’s nothing so he made it as easy as possible for the killer to tunnel him out. You have to position yourself or go to the right area on the map and make it difficult so the killer will most likely drop chase
There have been cases of survivors not using their basekit bt to run away but instead to tank a hit for the injured rescuer.
This is the dumbest thing a survivor can because the rescued survivor is closer to death and now can not use dead hard because of their dumb play.
And survivors have screamed at killers for capitalizing on when survivors make this mistake they don’t realize they made themselves the optimal target.
Need to give the killer an actual incentive to spread hooks evenly to compensate. Faster action speeds for killer, slower repair speeds, etc. Let it start small and gradually build to be insane if he’s at 8 hooks no kills. Let it feel *fun* to spread hooks.
But yes, I love the idea. I wouldn’t mind seeing a yellow hook timer bar for survivors hooked back to back times, to indicate to his team that he has more time on the hook, and you should do gens for a while before going for the rescue.
@@WittingStudios No, no slowdown anymore. It only makes one side feel more sluggish. As a killer, its not fun if the survivors are just slow. Its much better to shred pallets or get a small haste for some time
Otz made a perk
I once faced an oni that downed someone, stay in front of the hook, wait in front of the hook for the survivor to unhook themself with the anti facecamping, wait for the endurance to run out, then repeat. i had off the record AND decisiv strike, and it did absolutly nothing, it just delayed my death, but did not prevent the tunneling at all. Was not fun.
I bet the other three escaped though. That’s a huge time commitment on the killer’s part. Not fun for you, but if your teammates know what’s happening, then it’s basically a guaranteed escape for them. If the killer does this, it’s almost a guaranteed loss for him.
@@ImmaculateOtter until you play solo queue and you see all 3 survivors hovering the hook doing nothing lmao
@@ImmaculateOtter nope, not even close. While I stayed Alive I did 3 gens, but I got tunneled second... And my team didn't do anything... Ahhh the joy of solo q.
@ImmaculateOtter so its fine that killers do this
@@ImmaculateOtter not everyone have a team, and so, we play with the monkeys we Can have ... Suite litteraly.
To excuse them it was midwich so hard to find gens, but still. In solo q, this issue might be even worse than swf
damn, he really predicted the new survivor perk
predicted? i think it exists Because of him
Imo, if you're going to suggest ways to get rid of every viable strategy killer has, (camping, slugging and tunneling) you should also suggest buffs or incentives for getting hooks on different survivors. Especially when at the higher levels (comp) tunneling is required in the vast majority of scenarios.
I agree with this as a survivor main who plays killer every now and then. Unless I'm playing crazy good players I win almost every game as killer with not a lot of effort as it's pretty easy to tunnel and slug rn. More like it's the 'meta' as they say. Used to be a killer main btw for any weirdos that want to cry. I play trapper and huntress
Nah, Otz' new core fanbase is primarily survivor-sided. That has been happening for at least a year and a half; if he promotes something that would benefit killers, he'll most likely lose some subs
I 100% agree, although I did not go into detail in this video for the sake of brevity. Some changes that could come with this system: nerf to toolboxes, nerf to Reassurance/Camaraderie (slight rework at least), etc.
Exactly, instead of slightly nerfing killer with this proposal (and weaker killers even more) give an incentive for killer to go for fresh hooks. BP increase or base kit 5-10% pain res (that's actually a really small buff), something that would encourage a fresh hook.
No. Killer is handicapped enough already. If you have to resort to slugging, camping, or tunnelling and believe they are viable or even "good" strategies, you likely have little skill as killer. Killer really isn't that difficult to play save for a few with more complicated or complex abilities.
Hey Otz, i dont know if you will see this comment or not, but your concept has fortunately/unfortunately made it into the game, instead of it being a feature, it is now a perk.
Yeah... I'd argue that it is unfortunate that this became a perk. The devs seem to love balance the game with perks that you have to buy first and level up and make it harder for newer players to have.
Your burden mechanic idea is awesome! I hope developers will take it consideration ^^
This games idea of a win needs to change. When the average match is me downing a survivor and two or three gens pop soon after I don’t even feel like playing anymore.
I agree. I tell my friends that when the devs announced the hidden MMR (which is fine), but telling people the condition of what dictates the hidden MMR, ruined how people played the game. I feel like there isn’t as much craziness in matches since people are just trying to escape or kill 3 survivors asap, instead of trying to min max the pip system.
@@razorthewolf18 I kinda like it, if I'm being honest. I'm not good at the game on either side, but as a killer I just play to lose. I hook everybody twice and let them all escape so my MMR doesn't go up and I can keep enjoying myself. My only problem with the MMR system is that it catapults you into higher MMR SO fast if you do well and that ruins the game for me. I'm not a sweatlord that wants to shave 20 years off my lifespan from the stress of high level lobbies so this works for me.
@@razorthewolf18 yea I agree
@@SaveMeXenu agreed, new player here and the difficulty because of mmr is so inconsistent. I either go against survivors that essentially feel like bots or I go against survivors that feel like they have 1000s of hours, the latter being for quite a few games where I get absolutely steamrolled. it's so rare that I get a group that is a fun challenge but one I feel I still have a chance of winning. The system feels so flawed, it's like I'm hardly ever matched into my actual skill bracket.
The thing is, you need to tunnel to counter this, and Otz is trying to get rid of the only strategy that works against gen rushing. He always does this
I love how Otz said "I'm done with the game that doesn't take on account proposals of balance" and here we are, this man is still helping, proposing and being creative with this game. THANK YOU OTZ! you are amazing.
As I said at the end of the video, this is just a fun proposal mostly aimed at the community/viewers for discussion. I have zero expectations that they'll make any change like this!
@@notOtzdarva What do you think about a feature where killers get increased movement speed against SWF? 1% against a party of 2, 2% against a party of 3, 3% against a party of 4?
@@xHannibal horrible is a fitting word
@@ENTITY_BK very fitting
@@xHannibal what? they're already faster.
I really like that it disables in endgame, so the killer can at least secure a kill, as always you demonstrate your care for the community, we love you too!
Yeah if you've struggled to get a few hooks by the endgame, you obviously don't need to be punished even more.
@@notOtzdarvait’s also so much easier on the survivors to accept you were sacrificed for the others to escape when the killer just had a rough game. It happens, and at this point you survived until the game was practically over anyway.
I do like that Otz recognizes there are different kinds of tunneling and there needs to be a system that recognizes the extreme sides of tunneling
Alien and Demogorgon have some pretty extreme tunnels imo
I'm so glad otz feels this way about tunneling. There are lots of ppl who think we should just accept tunneling. The faster we get over it, then the more fun we'll have.
The thing is, we should not accept unhealthy mechanics. I play killer, and I regularly lose because I don't tunnel. It feels like complete dog water to lose because I didn't get someone out the game fast enough.
I play killer and I never tunnel anyone but I usually win, it just depends on the survivors and the killer u use, or the perks, there are a lot of variables that can change how a match goes extremely, I can say tunneling is not always needed to win a game, not even 50% of games require tunneling to win normally
@yeraaf it is when you're playing Pig and Onryo against p100 swf
@@yeraafthis EXACTLY idk why so many killers don’t understand this game is VERYYY rng sided. If you’re getting stomped on killer most of the time it’s not just the survivors out to get you but also the map. Killer mains would have more fun if they just accepted this fact
yeah there are definitely those matches where i hooked 4 different survivors 1 time each when the last gen pops. then as they are all teabagging at the exit gates im cursing myself for not tunnelling.
@@chasef6840imagine saying the map is out to get…tunnel when necessary not when you’re angry or being mean….if after a chase that lasted just 30 seconds and 2 gens are 99’ed at 3 gens left and Mach survivor has been hooked once then pls lemme tunnel cause if I don’t I get bragged at gate or literally have to sweep survivors of the map to prevent them from holding the game
OTZ IS THE BLUEPRINT OF DBD CONFIRMED
came back to say, you did it otz
5:20 Well well well...
I really like the idea of making the gaming more mid-late focused and not making the outcome so often decided in tge first couple minutes, which you touched briefly on but would seriously be a huge improvement for both winning and losing side.
This proposal with the addition of some benefit for hooking all 4 survivors (one guaranteed mori?) would really help diminish tunnelling
Exactly, there has to be a win win condition on this
Not good enough. Most won’t care.
people who hard tunnel right from the start don't give a fuck about some mori. the benefit would need to be gameplay-related for them to care.
@@afm369 yeah, one player who has at least one hook state can now be moried if you go out of your way to hook all 4 survivors, encouraging that playstyle while slightly disincentivizing tunnel one person out of the game.
@@gungfry7728 ahh. idk if the community would like that but I certainly would
Who returned here after seeing the new 'Shoulder the Burden' perk? Otz is an oracle!
Remove hooks from the game. That way tunneling can't happen (duh).
(This is a joke I'm not stupid.)
Susge are you sure about that?
Thought you were serious and talking about how they did hooks in 2v8
Or that's actually a great idea! Remove hooks and replace them with the 2v8 entity claws!! I loved those so much.
@@dandantsm6560 it would drastically change the game tho. That’s why I had to add “as a joke” in my comment.
I think 2v8 mode accidentally proved that hooking sucks
I like the idea when it comes to turbo tunneling Nurses and Blights, but I don't like the idea because it could also impact weaker killers in certain scenarios. Picture a Freddy that hooked a Dwight two times, and who tried to chase someone else but had to abandon chase once or twice because of failed mindgames or main buildings and now there's one gen left. He patrols the gens and sees the injured Dwight on one of them. Now the only chance to turn the game around (a quick chase and getting rid of 1/4 of the team) is actually nonexistant and he might as well give up completely. Chasing someone else doesn't make sense at this point and if he commits to chasing Dwight he'll have another second hook stage to eat through. Even if this mechanic doesn't work when all gens are powered his team can just wait for him to get hooked before popping the final gen and maybe even allowing a 4-man-out.
They just need to buff all the weak killers so they can also be competitive.
by then the killer already lost the game... the pity 1 kill just isn't fair to the Dwight at all just because the killer couldn't manage to down even 1 of the other 3 players...
@@natjam0205 Yeah, but I'm talking about the weak killers here. It's not that hard to loop a Myers or Freddy for quite a while. At this point you could just as well argue that the killer already lost the game by chosing to not play a stronger killer
@@scribdeath7621 agree. dont balance around the strongest killers, buff the weaker ones or nerf the strong ones and THEN balance.
but this dont affect end game lol
They even called the perk “shoulder the burden” XD well done otz
You're actually so broken
This aged well it’s not a basekit mechanic but the burden thing essentially got added with the new survivor in the new ptb as a perk
4:51 What a glorious proposal. That's it, Otz is my president.
I also have a suggestion. Against genrush. Instead of noed, if several generators are started and there is no hook, the survivors going to be followed by AI like zombies for a short time and you can add nurses for the pyramidhead, werewolfs for Dracula, rocketlauncher for nemesis, demodogs for demogorgon, facehuggers for alien, It would look very cool.
Survivors will cry about this
@@NyX060 but no noed and new anticamp system
@@NyX060 or maybe their hits are just debuff players like slow them down, no vision, can't use perks for certain period of time.
Anti camp doesn't work most of the time when killer can just be outside the range to proxy camping. And 2nd, what's gen rush? Ya saying like everyone bringing good toolbox with bnb to rush it. What should survivors do when others are getting chased then? Since at high mmr every minutes is important so people trying to play more efficiently. Yet there's many cases where solo Q team takes forever to do a single gen while they are busy doing totems and chests. Which killer sure loves those cuz they slow the game down passively for them. There's a difference between gen rushing and players play effectively
@@HyangWon how many player at high mmr? Like 12%?
coming back to this video just to say that u have magical powers and behaviour just made a survivor with a perk based on the burden mechanic
It's even called "shoulder the burden"
Can't believe that this Idea is now official
I rarely play killer, but whenever I come across and downing the same person I just chased and hooked, I tend to just leave them there to check gens to give them a chance to come back, because I know how much of a pain in the ass it is to get tunneled off hook or just mere minutes after being unhooked. And half the time I still come out on top and get a 2-3k and sometimes a 4k.
"soft tunneling" is not tunneling. If you call it tunneling any time someone is hooked twice in a row, no matter the time or events in between, you're gonna be more pissed at the game.
There is also blamed tunnelling : when the survivor sees your playing a killer they don't like and immediately just gives up and follows you everywhere and won't go away and insists you kill them and you finally do so they go away and everyone else in the game thinks you hard tunnelled 😂
I had an idea: What if gen times were just a little bit longer and every survivor starts the match with a buff that makes them do generators faster as well. They lose this buff on their first hook. This simply makes it so if you decide to tunnel someone you have three survivors running around who can do generators really quickly and you Will simply lose on time. But if you spread it out You eliminate this buff and can actually turn those gen times against them. Theoretically you could also make it so that each survivor gets a minor stack for every other survivor that hasn't been hooked. This would make it so even hooking two survivors would make it better on yourself as killer.
I like your ambition Otz, but at this point I think that bhvr should just make the game about hooks. Chasing after those kills is a major problem.
1:04 i usually catch myself soft tunneling quite often as a killer that it's gotten to a point where i just slug. Mainly to give that survivor a chance to play a bit longer and I don't really think it's fair to punish someone who just got off a hook. So usually i will try to just slug that person and find someone else but that's just me. Also the fact that most survivors will cry about anything and call it tunneling so i just watch myself when i hook players so I won't hear the crybaby false accusations.
You just gave Bhvr a great idea for a new perk to sell
this is honestly the best suggestion i’ve heard in awhile. not only does it force the killer to “hook” multiple people, but it denies killers who slug to tunnel. it is not uncommon for me to take a down for a survivor being hard tunneled out, only to be left on the ground, and then the killer gets the kill and a hook on me. this mechanic would deny that to the killer, because not only would i not have to take that down and be useless on the ground for the next several minutes, but i could just take burden and force the hook state onto me instead of the tunneled survivor for a total of 1 additional hook state rather than 2 + a kill. wonderful idea.
This is genuinely the best solution I've heard. It's very much in line with the 3 gen and anti-camp mechanics, where it only triggers in the most egregious examples.
well well well.... what have we here
Well, that burden mechanic is now in PTB, what are the Otz ?
I came up with this idea myself too! I called it “center of attention” and it was a way to make players with no hooks take a hook state if a killer is hard tunneling. I hope BHVR can implement something like your idea.
I like the idea, but Killers will then just avoid it by camping stage two and make the unhook impossible until the survivor dies to the hook timer
and be there for 140s? Thats pretty much all gens. 90s for 1 gen, 3 survivors = 3 gens and the remaining 50s 2 survivors can double up on one
U can force a trade tho with just 1 healthy person unless ur like camping with an instadown
In this scenario the timer should freeze and gen speeds should go up by 25%. They need to do something so oppressive killers wont even consider it.
@@Brian-o9s in what scenario?
@@Aventurine-v2q Any scenario where the anticamp feature is triggered for the survivor. The current anticamp does very little to deter. BHVR should ensure the person being camped doesnt die if they actually want to discourage it. If the hook state freezes and gens speed up, all the gens get done and that person will be able to unhook themselves and run right out, as it should be.
8:00 wouldnt this motivate to camp till second stage, then let them unhook and tunnel them, since it wouldnt enable the burdein?
purposefully wait till the first hook stage is about to be done, then use the anticamp bar. if you keep waiting till the last second, it gives the other survivors more time to do the gens
@@chubbswab proxy camping is a thing. Also this wouldn't really solve Bubba's kit for tunneling. As he can easily chainsaw both the unhooker and the hooked person twice through their borrowed time, then just hook the unhooker first before he re-hooks the other person to bypass Otz's idea.
Yeah it would, but we have the anti-camping system and perks like reassurance for situations like this! - Only issue is basement I suppose.
@@notOtzdarva not everyone is running the anti-tunnel perks. So really most of the time killer will still get what he wants out of it
In casual gameplay anyway. Obviously if all four survivors are great at the game it doesn’t matter anyway. Which I’m not great 😂😂.
Coming here after the PTB announcement, how does it feel to predict the future Otz?
Otz the real answer to every one of these issues is to SIMPLY MAKE A RANKED QUEUE AND A CASUAL QUEUE! YOU, Otz have the power to speak to devs as a frog whisperer, please mention this idea
showing chucky while explaining what tunneling is, completely accidental
I think a fair compromise would be to get rid of the unhook notification for the killer just like in 2v8 mode. Currently there are two ways to tell if a survivor was unhooked, the big loud bubble notification and the hud, get rid of the bubble notification, but keep the hook/unhooked status of survivors on the hud. When a killer leaves the hook to go find someone else and then gets a huge loud notification saying “HEY! I’M OVER HERE!” Of course they’re going to go back to hook, but if unhooks were silent and they had to pay attention to the hud, a lot of the times they may not notice if they are on the trail of someone else. This wouldn’t exactly help hard/purposeful tunneling I guess, but it would help soft tunneling a lot.
Exactly this, killers should be able to pay attention to the statuses of each survivor. We already should to check who’s injured or healed, who’s affected by killer powers or not, and even if someone becomes broken when someone heals or they’re unhooked. It’s a huge part of the game.
I really like this idea! I like how you themed it into the game, burden is a pretty good name for it.
I just feel a prompt is probably a bit awkward, yet the most seamless I suppose!!
I like relieve burden better personally, but it’s longer which I think they try to avoid. I’m just a bit pedantic.
Burden deactivates after the 2nd gen is completed. I played a trapper game today, I had a really lucky spawn on Skull Merchant map variant. I placed a trap and found an AFK SURV, gold on my eyes. I down the surv and I have NO TIME to hook her on a scourge, that the first gen pops and I don't use the pain resonance stack. Ok they had good perks. She got saved, and bodyblocked me on a thight space with off the records. I hit her lose the track of the other surv (I wasn't near the hook, this took me around 30 seconds), and decide to "tunnel her". I hit her after she pallet camped shack and another really good jungle jim pallet and then try to hook her, 1 pain res stack is gone, but another gen is completed. I try to intercept the 3rd gen from popping but that's usless they complete it in my face. I injure a surv then go back to the hook, I'm down at 2 gens and I have only 2 hook stages so I have to tunnel out to have any chance of winning, and that's what I do, the surv LITTERALLY gave up and stood still under the hook, so I down her hook her and I'm litterally at 1 gen already, if Burden was a thing, I would've lost that game due to HEAVY gen rush, 10 total perks of gen speed + 4 purple tool boxes. Game lasted around 4 mins and 35 seconds for all 5 gens to be completed. And this is why my initial mindset was NOT to tunnel but play as my usual mixed hooks then kill atleast after the 6th hook stage.
Burden needs to be balanced around gen speed, and gens should take a bit more if Burden is implemented.
Let me get this straight: you're at 1 gen & 3 hooks while survivors are AFK or killing themselves under hooks, and therefore hard tunneling shouldn't be prevented? 1. Skill issue. 2. If, for the sake of argument, we say it's not a skill issue, that killer needs buffs. It has nothing to do with hard tunneling. A gen speed penalty for taking burden would be counterproductive as that just gives killers another incentive to hard tunnel.
it fixes nothing. I think that the first survivor should get "burden" from all other 3 survivors potentially resulting in 6 hooks to kill the first survivor who is being tunneled. THAT will deter this. Having to hook someone 4 times is barely a blip for the hard tunnelers. It's still killing someone 4-8 hook stages early. Allowing the tunneled survivor to get 3 extra hook states WILL deter this because it will require the killer to stay way too close to the hook for them to stop the gens.
They also need to lower the anti-camp required time and distance. I have been getting camped a lot where the killer stands JUST far enough away to make sure I don't get to get off the hook, and the timer is paused if another survivor is near, which means he can come closer again. it's basically only useful against the assholes who don't know how it works yet.
@@MichaeLPeterSSClips ooooorrr.... just don't tunnel.... ?
@@JathTech what? Did you read what they said? They're saying that tunneling is still too easy for killers even with Otz's suggestion. People who enjoy hard tunneling aren't gonna stop tunneling unless you motivate them lol
@@araccoonstolemyradiator I agree, hence my suggestion to blind the bastards.
Hmm I think this is shortsighted, the killer will just use the worst player to farm hooks on the rest of the team
@@bedeyoung4843 it only works once, and someone getting one hook without them personally being chased is much better than a 1v3.
Killers should have some type of base kit mechanic that extends the game every hook stage. A few ideas I have which would obviously need to be workshopped would be a base kit gen regression per hook state, allowing the killer to have a little more breathing room. Let's be honest the reason people tunnel to get 3 out is because 3v1 is much less stressful. The current state of the game practically encourages tunneling at a high level. Another idea would be the entity blocking unhook for 10-15 seconds after hooking so that immediate resets dont happen. The killer should feel like pressure is taken off the game every time they hook someone the same way getting someone put of the game is for tunneling to truly address the issue in my humble opinion. One thing is for sure, It doesn't feel good to get tunneled or tunnel.
THEY JUST ADDED THIS AS A NEW PERK WHAT
While I actually like this idea I would also rather address tunnelling the other way round. If we continue this trend of giving survivors a million second chances, playing killer feels like it’s becoming more and more restrictive although this idea overall isn’t bad by any means. I’d much rather have a change to gen speeds so that tunnelling doesn’t feel as NECESSARY to win matches sometimes. While this doesn’t fix the people that tunnel out of spite if u didn’t feel like u needed to do it then the vast majority of players would be doing it way less often
This is cool and all, except people will still tunnel even if gens took 10 minutes AND it's not really a "second chance" if your basically downed before even getting that chance.
how easy do you need it, gen speeds were already nerfed
@@ChamplooMusashi Yeah, 2+ years ago... Since then survivors also got basekit BT, increased hook stages to 70s meaning more time on gens, countless perks to counter tunneling and ESPECIALLY camping, the anti-camp mechanic, countless perks to lower the charges of gens, the gen kick limit, and a nerf to EVERY single gen regression perk in the game.
Meanwhile the nerf to gen times were from 80s to 90s. And mind you, toolboxes remain untouched since then so you can still choose to bring an item that let's you do gens in 40 seconds alone, and completely replenish and reuse the toolbox.
@@ChamplooMusashi Im so sorry, I apologize for not liking that survivors can finish a gen in 25 seconds as soon as a match starts. You know what thats on me, BHVR should speed that up to 15 seconds.
@@D-Doc-C youre saying that like killers never got buffs. What about the basekit killer buff and basekit surv nerf? Hit attacks cooldown was reduced, speedboost on hits was shortened for survivors. Sloppy butcher buff, all medkits were killed, healing generally took a big L with nerfs of COH, self care, botany, etc. Among that, gens were made 10seconds longer and now gen tapping doesnt exist (8-kick mechanic doesnt lose you games, so this mechanic buffed killers while removing 3gen situations that went on long. You can still 3 gen, just not for long). Hooks respawn, which now means no deadzones anymore.
Its also not anti camp, its anti FACEcamp. Killers can still proxy or just camp from distance with hatchets/chainsaw/anything basically. They removed the "if i stand here ur dead", not camping generally.
Choosing to bring an item for gens means that sure, the first gen flies, but then you have no item for the trial. No healing, no sabos, no auras, no hatch, nothing. And youre talking about a perk that requires you to: empty an item > run to a locker > hide for a while. Its wasted time. Theres a reason its not meta. Its not just "when i open my eyes this toolbox is full again". Thats a perk slot. And a single pain res stack shits on your toolbox.
And nerf doesnt mean dead. The gen regression nerfs did nothing. Pain res was crazy OP and is still meta. Pop is still meta. Ruin was buffed. And they buffed grim. Which is now meta. Youre purposely closing your eyes at all buffs and then focus on killer nerfs. Why?
Most of the time I Tunnel because survivors make me do it. Either they force me to hit them because they body block and maybe have DS or OTR, or they rescue near me and either rescuer hides or goes to a strong part of the map and expects me to waste time instead of just going for the easier down
They didn’t really make you do it, you’re just choosing the easier down.
That's option 1 in his list. You aren't actively trying to tunnel, you're tunneling out of convenience or things uncontrolled by you.
If someone bodyblocks in the open, just walk around them. If someone bodyblocks in a tight space hit them. Typically, if a survivor is willing to take a hit after being unhooked, that is a clear confirmation to being tunelled and you are in the right for hooking them
@@matthenley3886Sometimes that's the *only* down. If I run into the unhooked and the saviour is nowhere to be found, I'm not going to leave and look for them unless I'm already ahead (and that has also backfired, so it's not a certainty).
@@D-Doc-C its hard to walk around a bodyblock. unless youre playing like trickster, huntress, or gunslinger i dont really see a way to effectively avoid a good bodyblock. good survivors can become brick walls
It won't work. Let's say I tunnel the 1st player and the 2nd player takes on the 1st hook stage, I continue to tunnel the first player because he can be easily killed due to the fact that he is an easy target and the fact that I hook him 4 times instead of 3 times means nothing because the survivors they still have to take it off the hook, which means that someone won’t be repairing the generators. At the same time, having killed the first player, I now have a 2nd player with ALREADY one hook stage, which makes him an excellent target for continuing tunneling.
On the other hand, the same story as with "Off the Record" and "DS" immediately after the hook starts clowning with the killer. Now such a survivor will be able to withstand 2 hits and then jump off with the help of "DS" and after that, after another hit, the killer will not can pick it up and hook it because it activates this mechanic. And what should I do with it now? He sat down in front of me to repair the generator. What im need to do now?
I think the core problem of the whole Tunneling, proxy camping, and slugging debate is just that survivors are way too fast at doing things. I'll preface this by sating I'm still fairly new and I'm limited to the free killers & the free killer perks.
Tunneling: it really feels like if a survivor isn't dead at 2-3 gens then you better hope that you have a good 3 gen set up or NOED or else your lucky to get even a 1 or 2 k. I usually don't single 1 person and instead ping pong between 2 but according to survivors that still tunneling.
Proxy Camping: even though I have sloppy butcher survivors can just get unhooked and heal back to full in seconds, so going back to the hook either after they unhook or to delay an unhook will help slow the reset, get a trade, or really just ensure that at least half the team isn't just cranking out generators.
Slugging: when a survivor can literally touch a hook for a second and sabotage it through me hitting them I'm just gonna leave the survivor I was carrying on the ground. Cause even though it's still not a hook it still provides the general pressure of a hook in that they need to be picked up. Also when you have those clicky survivors baiting a pickup helps to catch them out.
All these ensure that at least half of the survivors aren't doing gens which at the end of the day is what wins or losses games. So I think the solution isn't to buff survivors like you suggested or to nerf survivors but to give the killer some incentive to hook everyone once as a basekit. For instance they could implement a sort of demoralization token system where for each time a unique survivor is first hooked you get blanket game slowdown so that at 4 first hooks gen speed, sabotage, and healing are quartered to mimic being down a survivor. Second hook gives a token only if all survivors are first hooked and never if they go into stage 2. Cap it at half speed for gens etc at all 8 stacks to mimic being down 2 survivors. After a survivor is killed lose 4 tokens.
Of course other perks would need to change to account for the additional slowdown but with a system like that the killer would need to go out of their way to get all the tokens but wouldn't auto lose the game. It also doesn't completely invalidate camping, tunneling, slugging as it only takes 3 hooks instead of 4 but gives less incentive to do so as other slowdown would be weaker.
It also plays into the lore of the trials being a way to harvest negative emotion for the entity, and it helps lessen the whole pay to win feeling of the killer perks.
The issue is that there’s good a good reason for the tunneling, I find that every match without corrupt intervention I lose two gens in one chase even if the chase is normally short but you have to waste a perk slot and not only that but the perk itself was nerfed so that after the first down it goes away, even if that survivor somehow manages to get off either through pallet save, sabotaging hooks, or flash lighting.
So when people start rushing gens I need to start rushing kills no matter the cost because it’s the only counter to the fast gens. If people want more chases tell them to post on dbd forms that there needs to be other side objectives or another perk slot for killers.
The only minor modification I’d make to this mechanic is that any survivor can take burden while the tunneled survivor is on second hook, rather than it being a proximity thing.
Otherwise, I think it’s possible that people wouldn’t want to go for the unhook because they’d feel like they’re obligated to take a potential hook stage. It would also make for interesting strategizing for organized survivors on who is going to take the burden
Well I think the problem with that is a lot of survs will farm their soloq teammates with unhooking in the killers face and not taking hits or trying to bodyblock, thus effectively helping the killer tunnel with the early unhook. The person going for the unhook should def be responsible for the burden so they'll unhook more responsibly imo.
I think it's fair. If no one on the team wants to take a single hook stage for your teammate then they all deserve to lose. After all playing as survivor should require teamwork and some selfless plays.
@@GloomySpooks There's already basekit BT and anticamp, though. It's pretty hard to unhook irresponsibly anymore. If the killer is proxying and specifically decides to go after the person who got unhooked, sure, the person on the hook could get tunneled, but that is exactly what this mechanic seeks to prevent, and in that situation the survivors have no choice but to unhook anyway.
I love the idea but I see 2 problems here.
First is mori will become way more valuable and killer wanting to tunnel could still do it anyway (2 hooks then kill) the burden would not affect it.
Second is that the burden should deactivate after a certain number of gens are done because at some points when a game goes bad early and you get loop for 3-4 gens (skill issue or not) you would like to play the rest of the game 3v1.
These are the main problems I see, feel free to tell me your opinion. ❤
I think the best solution for part 1 would be to just make it so you can’t mori a survivor whose burden is being taken.
This seems like the most ideal workaround i've heard for tunneling. I'd love to hear some more hypothetical fixes to problems in dbd
I'd actually propose something else: normal hook for stage one, stage two as well, stage 3 they get caged randomly on the map since they're being tunneled and full health when rescued.
That would completely discourage the killer from tunneling the same survivor, regardless of their level of gameplay.
You wouldn't have to worry about the perks or the killer. If you wanna tunnel, you get the Adrenaline Punishment.
It's very fixable and the mechanic is already there.
The main issue is just the incomparable advantage of turning a 1v4 into a 1v3. I think that's where something needs to change. For example, every time someone dies, the Gen speed could be improved permanently. That way the difference between a 1v4 and 1v3 isn't as huge as it currently is and killers don't feel like if they don't hard tunnel, the gens just fly too fast.
Obviously this would have to come with a compensation buff for killers like increased Gen timers in general, but at that point it's just numbers changes.
Is this a joke? You want Even more speed to Gens?
Shut up Survivor scum
I think that a small change that would be nice is if the emblem system was tweeked so that devout soley awarded points related to unique survivors hooks, hooking a different survivor than the last and hook interactions--not kills (except pig traps). At 8 hooks with no dead survivors would result in iridescent or high gold but tunneling or having a survivor go into second stage would decrease points, resulting in a lower grade and less bloodpoints. If someone playing for 8 hooks would accidentally hook the same person twice or have someone get to second stage, the 4 remaining death hooks would give enough points for iridescent, but if you were deliberately tunneling/camping you would get nothing or bronze. Maybe for the chaser emblem you would get points for your next hit being on a different survivor and for malicious you'd get a big bonus of points for having a survivor off hook healed as opposed to decreasing points as it does currently. Additionally, while all of these healthier styles of gameplay award much for bloodpoints, camping/tunneling would result in less, i.e. first hook on survivor equals bunch of points, they get tunneled and put back on hook equals very little bloodpoints, tunneled again and killed equals no bloodpoints. While these changes will make getting merciless killer easier, and possible without killing, it would incentive the average game to be more fun orientated. Plus I was always under the assumtion that the lore was about the thrill of the hunt as opposed to the act of killing anyways, so merciless killer with all alive still works in my books.
This would be a positive reinforcement of the most fun way to play, because if the community was to realize that to win in an asymmetrical game, you don't need the other side to loose would greatly help the health of game. Of course this doesn't fix the problem, but I think this kind of positive reinforcement could help create a healthier game state.
TLDR: Change the emblem system so that tunneling/camping results in not enough to pip and less bloodpoints, and give more bloodpoints and pips to playing the game for 8 hooks no kills, making that the new killer win condition.
Then you have to balance the game around that. I get the idea, but 12-hooking can be very hard against really good survivors. Most people want to win, so saying they get less points now means the ones who want to win play the same, and those who focus on points lose more. I am all for making hooks apart of the killer's win condition, but then that requires 6-8 hooks meaning 6-8 chases won to be the average for killers compared to 2 kills which could be like 3-4 chases.
@@KingsNerdCave I definitely agree 12 hooks is hard against good survivors, but then shouldn't it be? Devisive victory against a strong team should be hard. That's why I suggest the win condition be 8 hook interactions, because winning 8 chases in a match for a merciless killer, the highest pip award, should be at least somewhat challenging, but still a realistic goal that incentivizes fun. Focuses on the kills results in 2 kills in 6 or less hooks and that typically isn't fun for either side and not very skilled.
You do make a good point with the points though, maybe instead of giving less points you get a large bonus for 8 hook interactions with none dead/one dead. Whatever the end result it needs to be significant enough that people would prefer to go out of the way to play like this though.
I don't know, I feel that this overall plays into kills being the metric of a killer win and the mentality of "to win the other side must lose". Because the best way to ensure 4 kills is to tunnel the weakest link out then use that pressure to get someone else then slug for the 4k. However, with 8 hook interactions where you are incentivized to go after someone different than the last, your better off looking for other survivors and getting into chases than you are sitting at the hook waiting for 70 seconds.
Otzdarva leading DBD as usual
I think this is a great idea but if this "Burden" disables automatically after hooking another survivor once, it doesn't prevent the killer from just hooking one survivor and then tunneling the previous survivor again, and 4 hooks just becoming the new norm for hard tunnelers. I think a way this could be buffed would be: if another survivor is hooked after burden is set, start a 60s timer that will disable burden, or until the player that placed the burden is hooked, whichever happens first.
This would give more leeway for that survivor to recover and make the placing of burden more tactical, since you'd probably either want to hide who placed burden or make a survivor that's very good at chases have it.
That nerfs killer too much to a point where people will begin intentionally getting hooked in that state. You’re right that it will increase hard tunnelling to 4 hooks but unfortunately this is probably the best solution. There will always be people that abuse the most meta part of any game and right now it’s not that tunnelling is so rewarding that’s the problem, it’s more in my opinion that the incentive and reward for spreading hooks, barring a few perks, is just too weak.
This could be golden for solo queue, but likely abusable by good SWF teams by making deliberately forcing you to tunnel one good chase-oriented person who will be all over your face after he is on two hook stages. Im suprised you didn't mention that aspect in the video...
he mentioned it all right, he said it can be turned off for tournaments! LOL proving this idea is dog water. Its 100% abusable by swf's.
@@DeathstarsEG Another example of why we cant have nice things
@@DeathstarsEG I missed that, my bad, but the question still stands for SWFs, you are correct. This has been long overdue, SWFs are too powerful, they should really be getting some sort of debuff to gen speed or the like. Check who is in SWF in the lobby and apply it to them, leaving the random solo queue players untouched.
This seems like a non-concern. Survivor teams can already try to get you to chase the strongest survivor. If you decide you want to tunnel that person, though, you're basically throwing. That would not change at all with this new system. It would of course be an even worse idea to hard tunnel a survivor whether it's the strongest or weakest one, but that is the entire point of this mechanic.
@MagicNash89 I disagree most swfs aren't these P100 gods that are going to be looping you the entire game. They are usually just two friends wanting to have fun with each other and in my experience tend to be pretty mediocre when it comes to gameplay, I guarantee you get a lot more swfs as killer than you think you do. Your game should never directly punish people for wanting to play with their friends, it's just not smart in the long run.
You're not gonna believe this
I also wanted to mention I like the idea otz and I enjoy your content :)
Pretty cool they made a perk based off this idea
I seriously want to know if he already knew about the new perk, they designed this perk just now, or if it was just some big coincidence.
Even the names are similar. BHVR definitely took inspiration it seems
Ok sounds good,but what about the survivors who force u to tunnel abusing perks like otr,ds,dh,etc they get one more life for free with this
No one forces the killer to do anything. Bodyblocking and/or playing aggressively =/= forcing someone to tunnel.
@@notstarboard if think that u clearly arent a high mmr player
@@notstarboard well i mean if you want to lose the game you can always just ignore the bodyblocker right? No one is forcing you, you just lose because you have a person blocking you for 80s and longer. You are definitely high or just dont get the game
Sounds fine with me.
@@notstarboarddude....you making no sense tbh.....you gotta be high or smth....
Here's my fix. When endurance runs out, whether by time or taking a hit off hook, if the killer is in chase with the unhooked survivor, the survivor gains 10% haste with hidden scratchmarks/blood for 5 seconds and the killer receives a 5% hinder UNLESS it's due to the two survivors staying together within x meters so they can't exploit it.
If using your idea, I'd make Burden a perk. "If you are hooked 3 consecutive times, your hook progress stays at 2nd stage for your third hook, gain 5% haste and instant heal of one health state once unhooked"
Yeah man 15 seconds of immunity and 3 teammates to take a protection hit for you definitely aren't enough lol, if definitely isn't a skill issue, it's the devs' fault bro!
Survivors are OP AF, Tunneling is part of the game, if you don't like it, make fixing gens take longer than a couple of seconds. Also if the survivors are stupid enough to unhook in front of me, I can tunnel if I choose to. Don't cry, it's your own doing...
PS If I'm tunneling, do gens, stop hanging around me like a bunch of headless chickens doing jack shit, pretending you're noob 3 or Ayrun or whoever. Stop crying. Zero sympathy.
So, we need to stop hard tunnelling in order to avoid making the game unfun for Survivors. That's fair enough. I mean, let's forget perks like Reassurance and just transfer hook states instead. But what about avoiding an unfun game for Killers? What's the suggestion for gens popping back-to-back or flashlight/sabo teams? Do we make Deadlock base-kit with the perk extending its timer? How about putting a cap on the number of times a gen can be touched? If the cumulative touching of a gen reaches 8 then the gen cannot be repaired any further with glowing barbed wire added as a visual effect. Perhaps we should add a meter that fills up if other Survivors get too close to a Killer carrying a Survivor? Upon activation the carried Survivor will be auto hooked. Maybe increasing gen repair time some more so that the Killer doesn't have to leave their current focus in a hurry? Afterall, this is a game with 2 sides to cater to, right?
I was playing both yesterday and both sides have so many miserable things to go against. And its like the more the stuff they add the more miserable the game gets. Case in point the new flashlight perks, chem trap, the newest map, and dracula is so unfun to go against he has so much in his kit, its insane.
That's not what the video is about, though. it's just focused on Tunneling and a suggestion on how to stop it.
@@knightsaber3155 But it is to some degree. Otz asked for opinions. And my opinion is that the game has 2 opposing sides, each with their own annoyances and dislikes; much like the reply above you pointed out. So, if you only focus on improving things for 1 side then you will undoubtedly make it a horrible experience for the other. Otz made his suggestion with no counter-balancing suggestion. How many vids do you see on YT suggesting ways to make the game less of a sweat for Killers? I play both sides and something that worked well in 2v8 mode was hooked Survivors teleporting across the map if the Killer got too close. I feel this would work better than an unhook meter, and they can also add that the Killer does not get an unhook noise notification from the hook respawn location. That way Survivors get a safe hook rescues and more time to heal safely. And the Killer is free to chase and kill who they want without losing track of hook states.
@@jondoe-du2fr There were killers abusing the teleport mechanics too. When people were going for unhooks the killer entered into the area forcing the teleport and basically forcing a trade except without actually trading. And not knowing where the hook is doesn't matter when maps are so small, so many killers have mobility and the hook is always directly opposite wherever the killer is. On another note the game is just unbalanceable by it's nature as asymmetrical. There's no state that can be reached will satisfy killers that want to 4k every game and survivors that all want to escape. They're just too different.
@@anth9845 I agree with absolutely everything you said. No matter what's done, there will be ways to manipulate it (by either the Killer or Survivors). DbD is an 8 year old game that was designed in such a way that the premise for both Killers and Survivors cannot be adapted much more. Tunnelling is, and always will be, a part of the game. Same with gen rushing, and SWFs being harder to face than solo-q players. Suggesting ways to perfect DbD now is futile.
As a killer I'd still tunnel the same person (probably because they are easiest to down) and now I get a free hook state on a survivor that might be better in chases. This doesn't seem to really do much to stop tunneling, if anything it might promote it.
That's why I'd rather have shared hooks. Once 8 hooks are reached, then sacrificing will happen. 8 hook games every time before kills happen. Yes, I'm a Killer main. But killer has been so brain-dead easy these days.
Slugging everyone is even easier
I think this would encourage slugging tho. If you are againt multiple flashlight users and unable to pick up for hooking, your best bet for pressure is to slug everyone and then start putting people on hooks. (Sluggers do this nowadays as well, but having to wait for 8 hook stages makes it more viable strat.)
Also not everyone is as good at playing killer as you orbplay S-tier killers that make the game too easy, i play both killer and survivor and most of the time i struggle to get 6 hook stages. (yeah skill issue ez get good noob)
Maybe allow to take burden 2nd time if killer goes for 3rd sequent hook on same survivor
Cool idea, love that you're sharing with the community!
I want a cheese steak sub and a pepsi
thats actually beautiful and so brave of you to say
Fuck no. I cannot believe you would share such a controversial opinion. You have been cancelled accordingly and the military will be here at dawn.