Thanks to Zven for coming on Hotline League last week, it was a banger episode. I'd check it out if you missed. We'll be back tonight with Raz on at 7 PM Pacific! Don't miss it!
if they did, it would gain a much bigger following. League of legends still get new players even tho a lot of vets are leaving. As long as its a competition it would get eyes and its a video game to boot. who doesn't want to make money off of video games.
Nah, you could get 5 kids in a given high school to competitively knit if you streamed it. Finding so many coaches for high school LoL is going to be all but impossible. There are few high school football coaches who don't think they're good enough for big name D1 schools if they're just given a chance. That dream keeps the flow of passionate coaches coming into high school. What does a LoL high school coach aspire to? They can someday coach a good club team at college for $100 per season? High school isn't the parh, because there will be no one to teach them how to get better.
I think there is some improvement for LCS this year starting with the broadcast. Even if the games aren’t as good as LCK/LPL/G2, I’m still watching the broadcast again with all the new segments.
Even just streaming it live on the lcs UA-cam channel would be great. I don't really twitch, but I was more than happy to watch it here earlier this year during the "2 week" break
Talent should come somewhere and I do understand that orgs should show support for Tier 2s But these talents can only be found if NA actually has a healthy Solo Queue environment and rewards people for climbing the ladder so start fixing and making Solo Queue attractive for upcoming players to actually climb and try
Part of making solo queue healthy is having a healthy Tier 2. That ends up being the path for NA talent to be scouted, developed and promoted in Tier 1 instead of the current environment where orgs overspend on imports and occasionally guess on domestic talent.
That's absolutely right. With that in mind, with the limited Tier 2 slots and players don't feel discouraged, how about small tourneys or something grand like the EU Masters
One of the biggest problems imo is that teams like dignitas would rather get a player past their prime like Zven instead of developing a rookie talent and possibly getting another yeon, apa, busio, jojopyun
Zven maybe past his prime when we are talking about mechanics but he is still one of the best and most experienced in game leaders in LCS. Bringing in a highly mechanical Rookie wouldn´t have solved Dignitas' problems imo. The addition of Licorice and Zven might do wonders.
The reason the tier two circuit in europe performs quite well is because of national pride especially in france and spain. Perhaps the solution for tier 2 would be to create tournaments or teams representing states. I feel that s how lower tiers sports get populare.
I've said it before and ill say it again, Riot Games / LCS brand needs to make a scholarship program for Highschool (doesn't exist yet) and Collegiate leagues as prize pool. Get the parents engaged. imagine getting a scholarship for college by winning a league tournament. Or piggybacking off the pro team skin profit sharing, do one of those for the prize pool money for the HS / Collegiate leagues. Current players would LITERALLY be investing into the future of the game and esport.
The sad thing is the fans have been saying this for years. LCS has not been at all good in terms of worlds since the old sneaky group broke off. that was the last time a single NA team has made it to even just the final brackets. than you all started allowing korean players to come over and retire with millions of dollars contracts all the while the league continued to plummet and plummet into basically a shadow of its former self. i cant say its everyones fault tbf a lot of people have 0 control over this and there are some people that we have brought over that has actually done work in the LCS but 99% of them have just failed and than people wonder hmm should we bring another one? no bring in actual NA talent and maybe just maybe NA can actually do literally anything in worlds and maybe just maybe can push out of knockouts
I think a scary perspective for NA if G2 perform very well this year is that europe becomes attractive again. In the last 3 4 years a lot of strong eu players went to NA like bwipo inspired Hansama Perks Nisqy etc... but if G2 become again the uncontested best western region a lot of players woud reconsider moving like LCK challenger or woulld even perhaps try to come back into the circuit.
I think the one of the biggest problems that Academy had before it fell apart was that we had a bunch of T2 players just sitting in academy getting paid LCS minimum all cozy. There wasn't really any incentive to try and get into the LCS, we even heard stories of pros who'd rather stay in academy than play on a "bottom" LCS team to prove themselves. I think for the future, aspiring pros should try to join other regions (aka ERLs or Brazil, or we even hear stories like Gryffin who went to Korea and joined T1s tier 3 team) to try and prove themselves. NA feels like it's probably doomed if you wanna be pro so you gotta make it where you can now if you truly want to be a pro player.
To me, the LCS continues to get a bit more boring every year. Teams keep importing players and it doesn't feel like I'm even rooting for my region when some of our teams have so many players from other regions. With T2 dead in NA, and the path to pro being so infeasible, we'll have no more home grown players. We wont actually be NA in the future, just a home for other region's extra players. I've watched LCS since season 2, but I cant really see myself being interested in an NA league where most of the players aren't North Americans.
its been like that for a while. its difficult when current imports care about LCS more than native pros themselves. corejj and impact are trying hard to improve NA culture.
I would love LCS to merge with LLA and CBLOL, maybe not whole leagues but only playoffs. I know there is like academic league in NA but what if riot could create "regional leagues" as tier 2 but not every state as one region but combine some into west, east, north, south
NA t2 has been on a downhill trend yet still produced 2 players who shit on FNC, this just shows how much potential NA players actually have and the potential we actually could have shown
A) Cubby has done a great job this year. 💪 B) Where is LCS going to get their required 2 NA players? I'm not even talking about fielding 3 or 4 NA players to gain an NA indentiy for fans to connect to. Without any Tier 2 system, there's going to be a widening skill gap for those 2 NA players and the rest of the import roster. It feels like the NA players that are in LCS right now will be on perpetual rotation until the end of the LCS, because they're the only players that can be trusted not to be complete liabilities. .
Yesssssss let my hot take make the rounds! Push my agenda! I will continue to call in and try to get people hearing about and talking about these issues until Riot decides they're going to enforce NA orgs to do better and make the region better. Ty Travis!
Thanatos is coming to NA is not crazy on a personal level. He has a much higher chance of making worlds in NA than staying in LCK. I'm sure Jack or any top org owner will say that to any import.
I feel like this is all a combination of everyone in the scene. Everyone tries to compare themselves to LCK or LPL and its just different over there, which everyone acknowledges. So why does everyone try to copy something that has a different culture/logistics than us? You can not copy another region or real sports and think you will have the same results. People not seeing that is why I believe NA region is scrambling with so many different changes. Just did not have the correct people in charge from the beginning.
The problem with challenger teams. Thats where the pros go to retired. Zion spartan was in there for years and bunch more. Taking up spots and slowing progress.
A minor league system requires some veterans who know what it takes to mentor the new guys coming up. They're not taking up space if they're mentoring. Sometimes you also just need some warm bodies that don't suck. You can't develop promising new players if they're stuck with 3 incompetent players that always put them behind or rely on them to carry every game.
7:25 Exactly this. Instead of trying to save costs by divesting from tier 2 like dumbasses, why don't they save costs by not importing random foreign players for millions who have like a 50% chance of not even making worlds? We spent so much on Perkz and SwordArt for what exactly?
It feels like the conversation is overly focused on the existing failing system. America has popular LoL players but they are on Twitch and UA-cam not on teams. The way to advertise to players is through the way players absorb the game.
The biggest threat to the LCS is two teams leaving right before the split. It's the lack of money and viewers, not lack of NA talent. Zven knows he is an import too right???
I feel like someone stops becoming an import when they get their citizenship. People outside of the US and Canada don't understand that our countries are made up of multiple people. Not just a single group. It's wayyy different than EU, in Sweden or germany you might have minorities. But the main group of people there are still the majority. The highest group of people in America is obviously white, but it's only like 50% of the population. NA is two countries of immigrants
Esports is too much of a "win now" thing instead of a developmental thing. Traditional sports are always picking up young players and letting them sit and learn for 1-2 years. LCS wants to import and win right away to make investors happy.
I didn’t care about any of the tier 2 play in the LCS BECAUSE THERE WERE A LOT BOTS AND AI CLIMBING NA SOLO QUEUE…. I actually stopped watching the LCS BECAUSE OF AI and bots…
Hard for me to be hyped for amateur when the na pro players themselves do not take the game as seriously as koreans or china. Say what you want about the culture hyping them up in lck -- they actually deserve it.
It's actually so heinous that the only time the pros take the ladder seriously is when they're teamless or their job is in serious jeopardy. It's a joke and it's why a lot of the ppl i know, myself included, can't get behind these players. I want to root for na, but there's nothing to root for
Not sure if it's just me, but feels like this channel has become more and more jaded and negative over the years. Travis feels more negative and jaded himself, and I just miss when his content wasn't borderline "negativebait" titles and clips of people complaining, or leading questions to talk about how doomed everything is. Every format is terrible, everything Riot does is awful, all the schedule changes suck, LCS changing to best of 3 is so bad, and so on and so on. All people want to talk about these days is just how terrible things are, and ya know, when that's all you tell your fans, they start to believe it even in the times it's not true.
Lcs is over no one wants to see this loser of a region play ever again nor do the people play the game , the pros killed the NA scene just like soccer .trah lazy no sacrifice citizens compared to other counties where the struggle is real the Koreans study the code and talk to coders NA so behind
why the fuck are you blaming the pros? you really think its the pros thats keep lpl or lck alive? behind faker is an organization that loves and supports him like the goat he is. Joe Marsh let Faker co own the biggest organization in esports. thats how much they care about faker. its not up to the pros to create a sustainable ecosystem shit fuck.
whats sad is north america has the best basketball players the best football players the best baseball players but we have the worst league players i think they just need to play more like our real pros does scrims dont work with practice casue u get lucky beat the opponent then u play them for real and like we got this then u get stompped like uhh what happen well guys we didnt play for 2 days cause solo que useless??? lebron plays by him self every day so did jordan how did they become so great PUTTING IN EXTRA WORK
Thanks to Zven for coming on Hotline League last week, it was a banger episode. I'd check it out if you missed.
We'll be back tonight with Raz on at 7 PM Pacific! Don't miss it!
Only way to save Lcs is to import hot cn and kr fan girls
🙏🙏🙏
genius right here
Actually yes
It requires u look like rekkles or hans sam
@@khalid5652 skinny nerds?
Seeing Zven say how Yeon and Appa won worlds then had to take a second after he realized how crazy of a statement it is was hilarious
He realized he was leaking the script and was afraid for his life
Putting league in high schools would require american high schoolers to care about league...
A wild Hypiyotech appears 😮
YOU WATCH LOL CONTENT?????!!!!!
if they did, it would gain a much bigger following. League of legends still get new players even tho a lot of vets are leaving. As long as its a competition it would get eyes and its a video game to boot. who doesn't want to make money off of video games.
Nah, you could get 5 kids in a given high school to competitively knit if you streamed it.
Finding so many coaches for high school LoL is going to be all but impossible.
There are few high school football coaches who don't think they're good enough for big name D1 schools if they're just given a chance. That dream keeps the flow of passionate coaches coming into high school.
What does a LoL high school coach aspire to? They can someday coach a good club team at college for $100 per season?
High school isn't the parh, because there will be no one to teach them how to get better.
Yes it starts with clubs from passionate league players in school. Need to advertise to them
Everything Cubby says is spot on
True on what Cubby is spittin
Watching LCK challengers since 2022 it's insane how Thanatos did not end up on a main roster
God cubby is so right
I'd like to hear more about Tier 2
I think there is some improvement for LCS this year starting with the broadcast. Even if the games aren’t as good as LCK/LPL/G2, I’m still watching the broadcast again with all the new segments.
Even just streaming it live on the lcs UA-cam channel would be great. I don't really twitch, but I was more than happy to watch it here earlier this year during the "2 week" break
Talent should come somewhere and I do understand that orgs should show support for Tier 2s
But these talents can only be found if NA actually has a healthy Solo Queue environment and rewards people for climbing the ladder so start fixing and making Solo Queue attractive for upcoming players to actually climb and try
Part of making solo queue healthy is having a healthy Tier 2. That ends up being the path for NA talent to be scouted, developed and promoted in Tier 1 instead of the current environment where orgs overspend on imports and occasionally guess on domestic talent.
That's absolutely right. With that in mind, with the limited Tier 2 slots and players don't feel discouraged, how about small tourneys or something grand like the EU Masters
One of the biggest problems imo is that teams like dignitas would rather get a player past their prime like Zven instead of developing a rookie talent and possibly getting another yeon, apa, busio, jojopyun
Zven maybe past his prime when we are talking about mechanics but he is still one of the best and most experienced in game leaders in LCS. Bringing in a highly mechanical Rookie wouldn´t have solved Dignitas' problems imo. The addition of Licorice and Zven might do wonders.
The reason the tier two circuit in europe performs quite well is because of national pride especially in france and spain. Perhaps the solution for tier 2 would be to create tournaments or teams representing states. I feel that s how lower tiers sports get populare.
i reported all the booba bots i will be emailing you my invoice thank you Travis Gafford inc
I need those for engagement
@@TravisGaffordlol
booba is life bot or not
I wish things would change
I've said it before and ill say it again, Riot Games / LCS brand needs to make a scholarship program for Highschool (doesn't exist yet) and Collegiate leagues as prize pool.
Get the parents engaged. imagine getting a scholarship for college by winning a league tournament.
Or piggybacking off the pro team skin profit sharing, do one of those for the prize pool money for the HS / Collegiate leagues. Current players would LITERALLY be investing into the future of the game and esport.
The sad thing is the fans have been saying this for years. LCS has not been at all good in terms of worlds since the old sneaky group broke off. that was the last time a single NA team has made it to even just the final brackets. than you all started allowing korean players to come over and retire with millions of dollars contracts all the while the league continued to plummet and plummet into basically a shadow of its former self. i cant say its everyones fault tbf a lot of people have 0 control over this and there are some people that we have brought over that has actually done work in the LCS but 99% of them have just failed and than people wonder hmm should we bring another one? no bring in actual NA talent and maybe just maybe NA can actually do literally anything in worlds and maybe just maybe can push out of knockouts
Should we limit the amount of imports in a LCS team to 1 or even 0 to make so LCS can care and dump money into tier 2?
I think a scary perspective for NA if G2 perform very well this year is that europe becomes attractive again. In the last 3 4 years a lot of strong eu players went to NA like bwipo inspired Hansama Perks Nisqy etc... but if G2 become again the uncontested best western region a lot of players woud reconsider moving like LCK challenger or woulld even perhaps try to come back into the circuit.
I think the one of the biggest problems that Academy had before it fell apart was that we had a bunch of T2 players just sitting in academy getting paid LCS minimum all cozy. There wasn't really any incentive to try and get into the LCS, we even heard stories of pros who'd rather stay in academy than play on a "bottom" LCS team to prove themselves. I think for the future, aspiring pros should try to join other regions (aka ERLs or Brazil, or we even hear stories like Gryffin who went to Korea and joined T1s tier 3 team) to try and prove themselves. NA feels like it's probably doomed if you wanna be pro so you gotta make it where you can now if you truly want to be a pro player.
To me, the LCS continues to get a bit more boring every year. Teams keep importing players and it doesn't feel like I'm even rooting for my region when some of our teams have so many players from other regions.
With T2 dead in NA, and the path to pro being so infeasible, we'll have no more home grown players. We wont actually be NA in the future, just a home for other region's extra players. I've watched LCS since season 2, but I cant really see myself being interested in an NA league where most of the players aren't North Americans.
its been like that for a while. its difficult when current imports care about LCS more than native pros themselves. corejj and impact are trying hard to improve NA culture.
I would love LCS to merge with LLA and CBLOL, maybe not whole leagues but only playoffs.
I know there is like academic league in NA but what if riot could create "regional leagues" as tier 2 but not every state as one region but combine some into west, east, north, south
NA t2 has been on a downhill trend yet still produced 2 players who shit on FNC, this just shows how much potential NA players actually have and the potential we actually could have shown
Beating dogshit dardos LA FORMULA FNC doesn't make Yeon and yAPA good unless u think the present FNC is godlike.😂😂😂😂
Fandoms are just so different in China/Korea compared to the west.
esports culture is just more legit there.
We really are still in the aftermath of the PlayVS deal and it feels like shit.
A) Cubby has done a great job this year. 💪
B) Where is LCS going to get their required 2 NA players? I'm not even talking about fielding 3 or 4 NA players to gain an NA indentiy for fans to connect to. Without any Tier 2 system, there's going to be a widening skill gap for those 2 NA players and the rest of the import roster. It feels like the NA players that are in LCS right now will be on perpetual rotation until the end of the LCS, because they're the only players that can be trusted not to be complete liabilities. .
"Yeon and APA won worl....Woaw..."
Yesssssss let my hot take make the rounds! Push my agenda! I will continue to call in and try to get people hearing about and talking about these issues until Riot decides they're going to enforce NA orgs to do better and make the region better. Ty Travis!
Thanatos is coming to NA is not crazy on a personal level. He has a much higher chance of making worlds in NA than staying in LCK. I'm sure Jack or any top org owner will say that to any import.
but thanatos is good enough to jump on any team if they give him a chance. its crazy that he didnt get one. same with berserker.
@@vang-toulee8351 "it's crazy that he didn't get one" bro that's why he came to NA
I feel like this is all a combination of everyone in the scene. Everyone tries to compare themselves to LCK or LPL and its just different over there, which everyone acknowledges. So why does everyone try to copy something that has a different culture/logistics than us? You can not copy another region or real sports and think you will have the same results. People not seeing that is why I believe NA region is scrambling with so many different changes. Just did not have the correct people in charge from the beginning.
The problem with challenger teams. Thats where the pros go to retired. Zion spartan was in there for years and bunch more. Taking up spots and slowing progress.
A minor league system requires some veterans who know what it takes to mentor the new guys coming up. They're not taking up space if they're mentoring.
Sometimes you also just need some warm bodies that don't suck. You can't develop promising new players if they're stuck with 3 incompetent players that always put them behind or rely on them to carry every game.
7:25 Exactly this. Instead of trying to save costs by divesting from tier 2 like dumbasses, why don't they save costs by not importing random foreign players for millions who have like a 50% chance of not even making worlds? We spent so much on Perkz and SwordArt for what exactly?
It feels like the conversation is overly focused on the existing failing system. America has popular LoL players but they are on Twitch and UA-cam not on teams. The way to advertise to players is through the way players absorb the game.
esports will fail to thrive in NA, because most of NA doesnt take esports seriously. As a result, they will have a hard time gaining an audience.
When I clicked this I thought his biggest worry about LCS would be unemployment.
Bro HH gotta change his name if he's gonna play in Berlin or he's about to get Quickshotted 💀
The biggest threat to the LCS is two teams leaving right before the split. It's the lack of money and viewers, not lack of NA talent. Zven knows he is an import too right???
I feel like someone stops becoming an import when they get their citizenship. People outside of the US and Canada don't understand that our countries are made up of multiple people. Not just a single group. It's wayyy different than EU, in Sweden or germany you might have minorities.
But the main group of people there are still the majority. The highest group of people in America is obviously white, but it's only like 50% of the population. NA is two countries of immigrants
Esports is too much of a "win now" thing instead of a developmental thing. Traditional sports are always picking up young players and letting them sit and learn for 1-2 years. LCS wants to import and win right away to make investors happy.
The lack of awareness of an overpaid import who massively underperformed throwing imports under the bus
I didn’t care about any of the tier 2 play in the LCS BECAUSE THERE WERE A LOT BOTS AND AI CLIMBING NA SOLO QUEUE…. I actually stopped watching the LCS BECAUSE OF AI and bots…
Too many based comments in one video
NA is dead just accept it
Hard for me to be hyped for amateur when the na pro players themselves do not take the game as seriously as koreans or china. Say what you want about the culture hyping them up in lck -- they actually deserve it.
It's actually so heinous that the only time the pros take the ladder seriously is when they're teamless or their job is in serious jeopardy. It's a joke and it's why a lot of the ppl i know, myself included, can't get behind these players. I want to root for na, but there's nothing to root for
This is the same person who struggled to find a team but has the biggest ego possible. People hate on Bwipo but Zven is just as obnoxious.
Not sure if it's just me, but feels like this channel has become more and more jaded and negative over the years. Travis feels more negative and jaded himself, and I just miss when his content wasn't borderline "negativebait" titles and clips of people complaining, or leading questions to talk about how doomed everything is.
Every format is terrible, everything Riot does is awful, all the schedule changes suck, LCS changing to best of 3 is so bad, and so on and so on. All people want to talk about these days is just how terrible things are, and ya know, when that's all you tell your fans, they start to believe it even in the times it's not true.
Lcs is over no one wants to see this loser of a region play ever again nor do the people play the game , the pros killed the NA scene just like soccer .trah lazy no sacrifice citizens compared to other counties where the struggle is real the Koreans study the code and talk to coders NA so behind
why the fuck are you blaming the pros? you really think its the pros thats keep lpl or lck alive? behind faker is an organization that loves and supports him like the goat he is. Joe Marsh let Faker co own the biggest organization in esports. thats how much they care about faker. its not up to the pros to create a sustainable ecosystem shit fuck.
Yeon and Apa won worlds..??
IS ZVEN LEAKING SCRIPTS?
whats sad is north america has the best basketball players the best football players the best baseball players but we have the worst league players i think they just need to play more like our real pros does scrims dont work with practice casue u get lucky beat the opponent then u play them for real and like we got this then u get stompped like uhh what happen well guys we didnt play for 2 days cause solo que useless??? lebron plays by him self every day so did jordan how did they become so great PUTTING IN EXTRA WORK