Thank you Jimmy. I have an older vehicle that has a distributor also. And you explained everything in a very easy to understand fashion. I hope your channel becomes much larger and much more popular you are very good.
Any GM folk out there that want to do this, 1996 up obs gm/Chevy OBD2 this does not apply. Spark timing is determined by the crank position sensor on the 96 up. Distributor position is set with a scan tool, cmp offset to 0 +-5 I think. This only prevents cross fire. You can turn the distributor all you want and the timing mark won't change, just that it might start firing the wrong cylinder... On these, if you have no reason to suspect it was moved, do not touch it unless you have an appropriate scan tool that can read this cmp offset value. If the cmp offset reads beyond 10 it will trigger a CEL, so you know if the check engine light isn't lit, the distributor is likely close to within spec.
Thanks for the info. I had an old Hyundai accent and the mechanic used to do this timing check and he explained to me this test for several times but never understood exactly how it works, but now I do
A lot of people with those kinds of trucks like to advance the timing as things age. I found that set at about 5 degrees advanced, i get the most power and responsiveness
@@1RoadGarage it's a common thing to do with tbi GM's. The timing curve was super conservative and it can really wake up there engine, the gotcha is the accuracy of the timing mark on the balancer as they are known to walk over time. Start with 2 and listen for detonation. Don't go beyond 4 degrees. I would encourage you try this. Also check fuel pressure if you haven't already. 13.5 psi IMO is the minimum but I think the book says 11-13.
Older vehicle and newer fuel create a situation where factory spec timing ends up being a hair retarded, so advanced a hair (1 to maybe 5•) is better, BUT that’s an optimum obtainable only on pre ECU/computer control, built to run on pre-RM (research method) gasoline - when gasoline octane was actually much different, and timing was 100% mechanical function. Modern computer controlled engines will self adjust to factory until you’re completely too far out for its correction, causing your car to run like a scrap heap. Back then it was a tune up, now it’s just replacing a few parts until it wears out completely. This is a great channel for learning those parts replacements but if you have a classic that really has to be “tuned”, better learn how because it’s a dying art.
Disconnect wire is behind the plastic cover on the firewall on older models,it will pop a code in the computer that you should check for and clear when finished and yes they like a little advance,2-4 degrees can make a noticeable difference
You are correct. For most V8's, they are timed by #1. I grew up with a fleet of International fuel trucks. The 304 & 345 were timed from the #8 cylinder. Also, forget the 404 International timing sequence, pretending it is an old Chevy or Chrysler, set the rotor to driver side #1 and lace the wires 18436572. Never had a problem. NOTE: International 404: Put timing light on passenger side #1.
Mine set at 4 degrees advanced in my 89 chevy truck and runs perfect getting 21 on the highway and 16 in the city but that's with 4300 feet above sea level
Sometimes it's a good idea to recheck the timing the next day, or week or so, just to make sure it's still set after any adjustments are made. Just takes a minute, or two.
It is never nesssisary to play with ignition timing to get a before OR AFTER top dead centre because video maker just showed everyone that the computor will change timing degrees whenever it chooses to do so ! This means that computor will do whatever automanufacture has designed it to do advance or retard the engine timing to whatever it desires it to be regardless of mechanical setting!
When you shorted the 2-pin connector, what is the function of those two pins ? Can you do it without shorting those two pins ? Doesn't it eventually give you a net difference? It may take a bit of trial and error to get it right ? I'm just worry if I short the wrong connector, I may end up with a huge consequence. thanks.
my GM's were like yours . then i noticed my 2 Nissan's dist. rotors were so wide it would never be early or late . just hate the way they wear tho. Great intro - can only guess the effort - Aloha bro & soon to be fiance . lol
I want to get a timing light and do it this way, but yesterday I was installing a new distributor, and after putting the new one in, it would start then stumble and die, so I knew the timing was off. Here's how I did it on my GMC 4.3 TBI without a timing light: Turned balancer so it was lining up with timing mark on TDC on cylinder 1. Verified that the rotor was pointing at the #1 plug wire socket contact on distributor. loosened distributor hold down bolt. On a 1992, the hold down bracket allows the distributor to be rotated any amount left or right. I knew it wasn't right where it was set at, so I rotated it by the tiniest amount, and cranked it, repeating until it would fire up and keep running. Then after it was running, adjusting the distributor position until it would idle fine. THEN, took it for a drive. I found when it was right at TDC, it would idle OK, but on acceleration, there was some noise in the engine I didn't like, and it would shift hard. I ended up having to advance the timing to find the sweet spot where it idled fine and also sounded good accelerating. This also made the shifts smoother. If heard on older vehicles, the gear that runs the distributor can have a little wear on it, as well as the timing chain may be a little stretched, and this is why the timing needs to be advanced.
Gave you thumbs up Jimmy but the reality is that spark plugs fire at BTDC (before top dead center). You set your baseline timing to zero but as soon as you hook up that computer wire, it is firing at 4 to 25 degrees BTDC depending on load, engine RPM and fuel octane. That is the main reason why racing engines need high octane gas, so that they can run 30+ BTDC advance. The higher octane gas burns slower so it takes more spark advance to burn it before the piston goes past TDC. Any non-modifeid OBD II car (96 and up) has a knock sensor that will retard timing when it detects knock (detonation). So, normally, 97 octane is plenty for everyday driving, but if you hear an occasional knock or you are going to be towing a heavy load over mountains for example, you might want to go up in gas octane. People who use higher octane in their vehicles than what the manufacture specifies are wasting their money the majority amount of the time because the computer will not exceed is factory set timing to accommodate higher octane gas. People who race spec motor classes at local tracks will occasionally cheat by adding 87 octane to the track required racing fuel. 87 is more volatile and actually has more energy per volume. It's actually not very complicated but it can be counter intuitive. For you race car guys ready to jump me for not talking about how compression plays a part also....I'm trying not to confuse the issue for the novices so hold your fire.
@@1RoadGarage I try to be helpful. The comment could have easily been 3x as long but not trying to force feed esoteric info that a novice may not need to know.
I was under the impression that the ecu did the timing anyways. You could turn that thing 5° either was and it will run the same. As long as the rotor isn't crossing to the wrong plug and it starts, the computer does the rest
It just has to be at 0 degrees as a point of reference. Once you reconnect that timing wire, the ecu will self adjust the parameters it has. You have to make sure the harmonic damper is in good condition to take that reading as correct.
I never used a crow foot wrench in my life set timing hundreds of times on various vehicles u just have to be very skilled u gotta be a level 100 wrench master you'll get there one day padwan just keep practicing since am up am up north now just bustin ya balls kid your all set I was touched by your timing intro keep it up.
This method is theoretically good and correct, but practically in an engine like this after 30 years and more the markings on the poly are no longer accurate, therefore aiming at 0 degrees with the wire disconnected will not cause the engine to be correctly oriented.
To jump on this fact, 1996 up obs gm/Chevy is an example of this. Spark timing is determined by the crank position sensor. Distributor position is set with a scan tool, cmp offset to 0 +-5 I think. This only prevents cross fire. You can turn the distributor all you want and the timing mark won't change, just that it might start firing the wrong cylinder... On these cars, if you have no reason to suspect it was moved, do not touch it unless you have an appropriate scan tool that can read this value.
That's what I thought too. The distributor on late 90's Vortec engines does still effect how your engine performs. The problem is that you need a dealer level machine to get it right. Thankfully my mechanic has one and i didn't have to pay stealership prices!
What do you mean you don’t have to set timing cause computer let you know? I have 2003 GMC sonoma sls and it won’t start. Anyone know if the distributor timing has anything to do With it?
@@passion4vintage559 your timing would have to be significantly way off for it not to start. A crank no start issue can be dozens of different issues that require troubleshooting. If the engine is running and the timing is off at a certain value it will throw an engine code. You can manually set your timing yourself but a scan tool to get the timing set in within tighter specifications.
1996 up obs gm/Chevy obd 2. Spark timing is determined by the crank position sensor. Distributor position is set with a scan tool, cmp offset to 0 +-5 I think. This only prevents cross fire. You can turn the distributor all you want and the timing mark won't change, just that it might start firing the wrong cylinder... On these, if you have no reason to suspect it was moved, do not touch it unless you have an appropriate scan tool that can read this value.
Thank you Jimmy. I have an older vehicle that has a distributor also. And you explained everything in a very easy to understand fashion. I hope your channel becomes much larger and much more popular you are very good.
Thanks!!
Very clear. I wayched 6 bideos, and finally yours told me where to put mark that matches up with factory mark for top dead center. Thanks
Any GM folk out there that want to do this, 1996 up obs gm/Chevy OBD2 this does not apply. Spark timing is determined by the crank position sensor on the 96 up. Distributor position is set with a scan tool, cmp offset to 0 +-5 I think. This only prevents cross fire. You can turn the distributor all you want and the timing mark won't change, just that it might start firing the wrong cylinder... On these, if you have no reason to suspect it was moved, do not touch it unless you have an appropriate scan tool that can read this cmp offset value. If the cmp offset reads beyond 10 it will trigger a CEL, so you know if the check engine light isn't lit, the distributor is likely close to within spec.
96 up vortec is so much better than TBI
I've got a 99 suburban reading advance of 25 at 1000rpm. It runs but im terrified 😨
Today's video has an appropriate level of enthusiasm, LOL. Another great video!
Thanks for the info. I had an old Hyundai accent and the mechanic used to do this timing check and he explained to me this test for several times but never understood exactly how it works, but now I do
A lot of people with those kinds of trucks like to advance the timing as things age. I found that set at about 5 degrees advanced, i get the most power and responsiveness
Interesting. I'm a noob when it comes to timing but I'll look into that...
@@1RoadGarage it's a common thing to do with tbi GM's. The timing curve was super conservative and it can really wake up there engine, the gotcha is the accuracy of the timing mark on the balancer as they are known to walk over time. Start with 2 and listen for detonation. Don't go beyond 4 degrees. I would encourage you try this. Also check fuel pressure if you haven't already. 13.5 psi IMO is the minimum but I think the book says 11-13.
I start with 6 degrees btdc on stock engines. If the engine senses knock it backs it off 4 degrees at a time, right? That's what I heard 20 years ago.
Older vehicle and newer fuel create a situation where factory spec timing ends up being a hair retarded, so advanced a hair (1 to maybe 5•) is better, BUT that’s an optimum obtainable only on pre ECU/computer control, built to run on pre-RM (research method) gasoline - when gasoline octane was actually much different, and timing was 100% mechanical function. Modern computer controlled engines will self adjust to factory until you’re completely too far out for its correction, causing your car to run like a scrap heap. Back then it was a tune up, now it’s just replacing a few parts until it wears out completely. This is a great channel for learning those parts replacements but if you have a classic that really has to be “tuned”, better learn how because it’s a dying art.
Disconnect wire is behind the plastic cover on the firewall on older models,it will pop a code in the computer that you should check for and clear when finished and yes they like a little advance,2-4 degrees can make a noticeable difference
LOLOLOL LOVE THE INTRO !!!!!!!!!!!! That was sooo good..
You are correct. For most V8's, they are timed by #1.
I grew up with a fleet of International fuel trucks. The 304 & 345 were timed from the #8 cylinder. Also, forget the 404 International timing sequence, pretending it is an old Chevy or Chrysler, set the rotor to driver side #1 and lace the wires 18436572. Never had a problem. NOTE: International 404: Put timing light on passenger side #1.
Mine set at 4 degrees advanced in my 89 chevy truck and runs perfect getting 21 on the highway and 16 in the city but that's with 4300 feet above sea level
Dear Mr. J
Tell us what you think after you adjust the timing and test it on ROAD.
Is it done ? Is it different?
Sometimes it's a good idea to recheck the timing the next day, or week or so, just to make sure it's still set after any adjustments are made.
Just takes a minute, or two.
It is never nesssisary to play with ignition timing to get a before OR AFTER top dead centre because video maker just showed everyone that the computor will change timing degrees whenever it chooses to do so ! This means that computor will do whatever automanufacture has designed it to do advance or retard the engine timing to whatever it desires it to be regardless of mechanical setting!
😊😊😊...Thanks a bunch...😊😊
When you shorted the 2-pin connector, what is the function of those two pins ? Can you do it without shorting those two pins ? Doesn't it eventually give you a net difference? It may take a bit of trial and error to get it right ? I'm just worry if I short the wrong connector, I may end up with a huge consequence. thanks.
my GM's were like yours . then i noticed my 2 Nissan's dist. rotors were so wide it would never be early or late . just hate the way they wear tho. Great intro - can only guess the effort - Aloha bro & soon to be fiance . lol
I hope one day I can find a partner and be as happy as Jim and his wife 💯 great video !
Harimis Hari_mis what’re you trying to say? I don’t speak bomb wire.
I want to get a timing light and do it this way, but yesterday I was installing a new distributor, and after putting the new one in, it would start then stumble and die, so I knew the timing was off. Here's how I did it on my GMC 4.3 TBI without a timing light:
Turned balancer so it was lining up with timing mark on TDC on cylinder 1. Verified that the rotor was pointing at the #1 plug wire socket contact on distributor. loosened distributor hold down bolt. On a 1992, the hold down bracket allows the distributor to be rotated any amount left or right. I knew it wasn't right where it was set at, so I rotated it by the tiniest amount, and cranked it, repeating until it would fire up and keep running. Then after it was running, adjusting the distributor position until it would idle fine. THEN, took it for a drive. I found when it was right at TDC, it would idle OK, but on acceleration, there was some noise in the engine I didn't like, and it would shift hard. I ended up having to advance the timing to find the sweet spot where it idled fine and also sounded good accelerating. This also made the shifts smoother.
If heard on older vehicles, the gear that runs the distributor can have a little wear on it, as well as the timing chain may be a little stretched, and this is why the timing needs to be advanced.
Great instructional video. How did you know the timing was advance 2°?
you can do it with a regular 9/16s wrench i have right against valve cover. just done it today
Lol... great intro. Great video as always.
Haha, glad you liked it!!
Very helpful , thanks .
Love your videos bro!
Gave you thumbs up Jimmy but the reality is that spark plugs fire at BTDC (before top dead center). You set your baseline timing to zero but as soon as you hook up that computer wire, it is firing at 4 to 25 degrees BTDC depending on load, engine RPM and fuel octane. That is the main reason why racing engines need high octane gas, so that they can run 30+ BTDC advance. The higher octane gas burns slower so it takes more spark advance to burn it before the piston goes past TDC. Any non-modifeid OBD II car (96 and up) has a knock sensor that will retard timing when it detects knock (detonation).
So, normally, 97 octane is plenty for everyday driving, but if you hear an occasional knock or you are going to be towing a heavy load over mountains for example, you might want to go up in gas octane.
People who use higher octane in their vehicles than what the manufacture specifies are wasting their money the majority amount of the time because the computer will not exceed is factory set timing to accommodate higher octane gas.
People who race spec motor classes at local tracks will occasionally cheat by adding 87 octane to the track required racing fuel. 87 is more volatile and actually has more energy per volume. It's actually not very complicated but it can be counter intuitive.
For you race car guys ready to jump me for not talking about how compression plays a part also....I'm trying not to confuse the issue for the novices so hold your fire.
Great information! Thank you for taking the time to write it!
@@1RoadGarage I try to be helpful. The comment could have easily been 3x as long but not trying to force feed esoteric info that a novice may not need to know.
Jimmy, you need one of your own 1ROAD shirts for filming! ;)
Is it the same process for a fuel injected model? I have a 97 gmc yukon with the 5.7 but with fuel injection
gotta love variable valve timing + Chevron 91 octane = Best MPG
I was under the impression that the ecu did the timing anyways. You could turn that thing 5° either was and it will run the same. As long as the rotor isn't crossing to the wrong plug and it starts, the computer does the rest
It just has to be at 0 degrees as a point of reference. Once you reconnect that timing wire, the ecu will self adjust the parameters it has. You have to make sure the harmonic damper is in good condition to take that reading as correct.
Thanks Jimmy great advice👍🚗
Nice 1 Jimmy..
Thumbs up brother!
Thx Jimmy!
Had a question. When I get mine on 0.idle little erratic. So it's jumping up 0 to almost 4 and back to 0..why is this??? I dle up and down. Thanks
Jimmy strike again 😂 nice intro man .
What degree did you have the timing gun on?
I never used a crow foot wrench in my life set timing hundreds of times on various vehicles u just have to be very skilled u gotta be a level 100 wrench master you'll get there one day padwan just keep practicing since am up am up north now just bustin ya balls kid your all set I was touched by your timing intro keep it up.
Great tips
So useful
👌👌
I have a 99 Gmc suburban with a cap an rotor is this how I do it as well???
Jimmy is like an over protective parent with his cars. If anything is off by even a bit with his cars he’ll immediately do something to fix it
You got that right!
Im the same way.. thats called great maintenance. if everyone was this way, they would find that there vehicles would last alot longer than most.
It’s like watching Bill Nye for cars.
Oh my gosh so true!
LMFAO, NO SHIT.
I got caught lacking. Timing wire got caught up by the alternator lol. Luckily i got the HF 1yr warranty lol
How do I bring the engine up to temp if it's a crate engine just set the harmonic balancer to 0° and let it run ?
This method is theoretically good and correct, but practically in an engine like this after 30 years and more the markings on the poly are no longer accurate, therefore aiming at 0 degrees with the wire disconnected will not cause the engine to be correctly oriented.
SOME vehicles that have distributors you CAN"T adjust the timing FYI
So what is the purpose for.The distributor moving back and fourth?
Well most distributors you can adjust but somewon't allow you to make adjustment until you jump the pin near the ecu
To jump on this fact, 1996 up obs gm/Chevy is an example of this. Spark timing is determined by the crank position sensor. Distributor position is set with a scan tool, cmp offset to 0 +-5 I think. This only prevents cross fire. You can turn the distributor all you want and the timing mark won't change, just that it might start firing the wrong cylinder... On these cars, if you have no reason to suspect it was moved, do not touch it unless you have an appropriate scan tool that can read this value.
What if there's no distributor?
You don't have to worry about timing then as if something was wrong the computer will detect it.
Isn’t 96 5.7 vortec distributer timing different
And for those of you who have push rods, tighten those rockers every so often.
With ethanol in fuel 2° of advance is a good thing. Better power more economy
Marriage proposal failed 😂😂
Yep, been there. Lol.
I'm the first viewer and person watching this video right now:)
I don't have to check my timing because the computer will let me know on my 97 GMC.
That's what I thought too. The distributor on late 90's Vortec engines does still effect how your engine performs. The problem is that you need a dealer level machine to get it right. Thankfully my mechanic has one and i didn't have to pay stealership prices!
What do you mean you don’t have to set timing cause computer let you know? I have 2003 GMC sonoma sls and it won’t start. Anyone know if the distributor timing has anything to do
With it?
@@passion4vintage559 your timing would have to be significantly way off for it not to start. A crank no start issue can be dozens of different issues that require troubleshooting. If the engine is running and the timing is off at a certain value it will throw an engine code. You can manually set your timing yourself but a scan tool to get the timing set in within tighter specifications.
My truck has a double timing chain and can't get off.
This video is only applicable if you drive an antique.
Just curious, anyone know when it changed from mechanical to computer advance timing?
Late 90s
Yeah, about late 90s, but depends on the make and engine.
1996 up obs gm/Chevy obd 2. Spark timing is determined by the crank position sensor. Distributor position is set with a scan tool, cmp offset to 0 +-5 I think. This only prevents cross fire. You can turn the distributor all you want and the timing mark won't change, just that it might start firing the wrong cylinder... On these, if you have no reason to suspect it was moved, do not touch it unless you have an appropriate scan tool that can read this value.
Wanted to know about the timing light, not your personal life.
Nice try bud! Lol... she's got ur number
I am highly offended that the term retarded is used in describing a vehicles timing. Almost as bad as slave/master cylinder.
🇴🇲💕
"Distributes spark engergy".... ? Really? Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy.....
Thank you but just a little too animated