AOS 4th Edition Stormcast First Impressions - The Stormkeep LIVE #33
Вставка
- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
- The gang discuss their initial thoughts on Stormcast in 4th edition now that Games Workshop has released the points, the regiment rules, and all the warscrolls.
The Stormkeep Discord: / discord
Support us on Patreon: / thestormkeep or join on UA-cam: / @thestormkeep
Timestamps
48:50 - Liberators
52:53 - Vanquishers
56:30 - Vindictors
59:40 - Celestant Prime
1:05:58 - Gardus Steel Soul
1:09:55 - Knight Arcanum
1:13:43 - Knight Draconis
1:16:40 - Knight Judicator
1:20:00 - Knight Questor
1:22:50 - Knight Relictor
1:26:10 - Knight Vexillor
1:31:58 - Lord Aquilor
1:36:05 - Lord Celestant
1:39:08 - Lord Celestant on Dracoth
1:41:10 - Quick rule talk on Quicksilver Draught
1:44:55 - Bastian Carthalos
1:51:50 - Lord Imeratant
1:58:18 - Lord Relictor
1:58:31 - Lord Veritant
2:00:02 - Neave and her Companions
2:00:30 - Vandus Hammerhand
2:01:33 - Yndrasta
2:03:55 - Drakesworn Templar
2:06:43 - Karazai
2:08:16 - Krondys
2:09:28 - Lord Celestant on Stardrake
2:11:32 - Aetherwings
2:13:05 -Annihilators
2:14:39 - Gryph-hounds
2:15:25 - Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers
2:17:10 - Dracoth Concussors/Fulminators/Desolators/Tempestors
2:21:12 - Praetors
2:22:47 - Prosecutors
2:24:28 - Stormdrake Guard
2:26:26 - Stormstrike Chariot
2:27:53 - Vanguard Hunters
2:28:20 - Vanguard Pallidors w/ Javelins
2:29:26 - Vanguard Pallidors w/ Handaxes
2:31:40 - Vanguard Raptors w/ Hurricane Crossbows
2:32:24 - Vanguard Raptors w/ Longstrikes
2:36:33 - Vigilors
2:39:38 - Questor Soulsworn
2:41:12 - Lord Vigilant on Gryph Stalker
2:42:59 - Lord Terminos
2:43:35 - Reclusians
2:44:13 - Ionus Cryptborn
2:46:37 - Battletome Supplement (Legends June 1 2025) - Ігри
I feel sorry for owners of other armies who don’t have a Stormkeep. You guys are awesome. Thank you 🙏🏼
It would be so cool if there was a show like ours for every faction!
Agreed, I wish I could find an OBR equivalent for these guys.
Legit the main reason why I prefer stormcast over other armies ❤
Thanks for the overview! Just getting into AoS with this edition and this was super nice to get a handle on whats up!
48:50 Liberators
52:53 Vanquishers
56:30 Vindictors
59:40 Celestant Prime
1:05:58 Gardus Steel Soul
1:09:55 Knight Arcanum
1:13:43 Knight Draconis
1:16:40 Knight Judicator
1:20:00 Knight Questor
1:22:50 Knight Relictor
1:26:10 Knight Vexillor
1:31:58 Lord Aquilor
1:36:05 Lord Celestant
1:39:08 Lord Celestant on Dracoth
1:41:10 Quick rule talk on Quicksilver Draught
1:44:55 Bastian Carthalos
1:51:50 Lord Imeratant
1:58:18 Lord Relictor
1:58:31 Lord Veritant
2:00:02 Neave and her Companions
2:00:30 Vandus Hammerhand
2:01:33 Yndrasta
2:03:55 Drakesworn Templar
2:06:43 Karazai
2:08:16 Krondys
2:09:28 Lord Celestant on Stardrake
2:11:32 Aetherwings
2:13:05 Annihilators
2:14:39 Gryph-hounds
2:15:25 Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers
2:17:10 Dracoth Concussors/Fulminators/Desolators/Tempestors
2:21:12 Praetors
2:22:47 Prosecutors
2:24:28 Stormdrake Guard
2:26:26 Stormstrike Chariot
2:27:53 Vanguard Hunters
2:28:20 Vanguard Pallidors w/ Javelins
2:29:26 Vanguard Pallidors w/ Handaxes
2:31:40 Vanguard Raptors w/ Hurricane Crossbows
2:32:24 Vanguard Raptors w/ Longstrikes
2:36:33 Vigilors
2:39:38 Questor Soulsworn
2:41:12 Lord Vigilant on Gryph Stalker
2:42:59 Lord Terminos
2:43:35 Reclusians
2:44:13 Ionus Cryptborn
Not doing legends cause I ain’t buying models I won’t be using in less than a year lol
Thanks again for the video! Time to do my job ig
Thanks for the timestamps, you saved me some time!
@@TheStormkeepyou guys really need to pin this.
@@Darwingreen5 I added those timestamps to the description
I usually go back and add timestamps once the stream is done processing on UA-cam, but snowyball76 beat me to it this time!
Thanks, guys! Appreciate your perspectives. Really helps bring my own thoughts together.
Loving it. I started following last year and it’s been fun listening to you guys. Keep up the good work.
Ionus shooting is superstrong. The turn he shoots and puts something on fire he also gets to pop the damage ability, and its ANY shooting phase.
Yup, it's very good!
yeah, I'm on Knight Arcanum boat myself. Tauralon may be the second coming of Sigmar, but by the time I find and paint one he'll be squatted for good
Thank you for helping clarify some of the confusing parts
Great video.
The Evocators having 2 control is clearly a mistake. I have a feeling a lot of the legends rule units will get points hikes to be unplayable. It feels like both halves of SCE were written by different people that didn't share notes...
Also re-reading so many of the legends abilities, I'm sure more will get "Once per turn (army)" added on to all the really strong abilities to prevent stacking in an army~
Stormkeep: Liberators must be cheaper than vanquishers to be good.
GW: proceed to increase vanquishers' cost.
Stormkeep: :O
@@ArmaGGon wouldn't be the first time haha
You glossed over the fact that the Sacrosanct Battle Formation only brings back a model that died this turn. On your turn. You can't just willy-nilly bring back a model each turn whenever your unit is not full. Essentially it only kicks in if you lose guys to out-of-sequence damage like Covering Fire, or on the clapback from melee (which you don't want to happen, on your turn you want to charge and wipe or at least neuter the thing you are charging, especially with your Fights First dracolines).
It is significantly weaker and more corner case situational than you seem to believe from what you said on stream.
That's a very good point, we had not noticed that!
A note about the retreat + teleport for Vanguard units - the 5.3 'Rule of One' rule says that a unit cannot use more than one CORE ability per phase. The teleport is a CORE ability, as is the retreat move. So you couldn't retreat out of combat and then teleport.
Vanguard Wing is used by the player, not the unit!
@@TheStormkeep Could you please explain that further?
@@DazeAoS If an ability is not on a warscroll, and does not specify who uses the ability, then the ability is used by the player.
Each unit can use one CORE ability per phase. Since the unit is not using Vanguard Wing they can still use a CORE ability like Move or Retreat
@@TheStormkeep awesome that’s good to know! Love your content btw many thanks for all the good work👌
Also I missed that you actually cover this a bit at 26:00. Appreciate the replies and learning all the same
Great job as always, im super pumped with soo many awesome warscrolls and Im glad that I didnt sell my sacrosanct chamber units. Lets go, for Sigmar❤
@@warka19 Glad you liked the show!
@@TheStormkeep I always do, your discord channel is the best source of knowledge about our faction.
Thanks for the video. One question, what u see better for a Ionus and dragons list. The army of renow or a normal detachment? Thanks a lot!
@@ivansanchez1328 I think a regular Stormcast army will be more competitive, but if you want to spam dragons then the Skywing is there for you :)
QQ where in the core rules can I find the rules that prevents followup fights which would prevent e.g. a Knight Questor or the Lord Terminos from popping the Quicksilver Draught and then point on Soulsworn or Reclusians from fighting immediately, and then fight with my first real unit (my turn)?
@@Peter.B.S after this stream we did some reading into it further, and we found out this interaction does work... but only if specific conditions are met. Check the StormFAQ channel on our discord server for details!
Are Dracothian Guard worth taking as a unit of 2? Or do you just have to reinforce them? Because I know Stormdrakes are pricy, but amy reinforced Dracothian Guard are even more expensive.
Seraphon!! I beg you 😂
1:08:20 : what is that "classic 12 inch drop, hope to get a double and then move up" ?
Do you have a place where you share list ideas, or have any plans to do list videos, i could do with some inspiration.
We will have some sample lists included with our Faction Pack Review, but we are going to wait until the Battletome is released before we do a full list building video
If you want to talk about lists right now then feel free to jump into the server - people are cooking up all sorts of tasty lists in there :)
Which units would u play with krondys? Also, is it worth it to play 4 stormdrakes and if so what would u pair with them?
Lance or swords for a reinforced unit of stormdrakes?
@@aaravbasantani7774 Lances!
4x Stormdrakes are playable, but very expensive, so if you don't play them carefully they can die too quickly and cost you the game.
I would pair Krondys with units that have a lot of attacks but relatively low Rend, like Crossbow Judicators
alr thx
I’m hosting a small two day tournament this weekend, and I’d booked the date pretty long ago so we weren’t sure if we would be using AoS 3 or AoS 4. And now I need to really quickly make a Stormcasts list! 😅
At least the gargant players who only get their rules the day before have like 5 choices, we have about 60😊
It's a good problem to have!
On the Fulmanators specifically I don’t know if you guys noticed they went from five attacks to three attacks. That’s a significant downgrade and damage.
Yes, it is a huge downgrade. Despite that reduction, they still deal good damage when charging!
What I took is Desolators vs chaff or bubbles of enemies. Fulminators to run down enemies , Concussors for mortals
I think I missed something, where does the 3D6 charge from from with Lord-Imperatant?
Imperatant gives you a D3 move after coming in from reserves, and you get a "3 dice drop lowest" charge with Gavriel
@@TheStormkeep Thank you so much for explaining! First time Stormcast here - will have the Dominion Half + Skaventide half to start my collection with so trying to make sense of it all.
@@myabi There's a lot to learn, we've got a deep bench! Hopefully our upcoming videos like the Faction Pack Review will help
Where do you find the point cost for the units that are valid for just one year?
Theyre in the same place as the points for our regular units!
You guys know more than me so im sure theres an explanation. I appreciate you say its likely to be errata'd anyway. But does the Lord Imperatent ability definitely stack and not trigger the Rule of One. If not, could you explain why?
The Lord-Imperatant is the unit using the ability, and it does not say Once Per Battle (Army), so each Lord-Imperatant can use Guided By Lightning once per battle.
Guys palladors with javelin shoot on enemy when they charged, not when they got charged!:)
@@tizianomerello6530 yup we noticed that after the stream, seems like we misread it initially
@@TheStormkeep anyway they seems very strong, you move, shoot, charge and after charge you shoot again😀
Guys, we need a list building video. This is edition is wild right now.
List building for Stormcast feels pretty rough right now. Probably worse than it has ever been!
The also game feels incredibly imbalanced right now, and it seems like there is going to be an errata/update to resolve things soon.
The bigger problem is that the Battletome is coming in September (probably) and it will throw everything out the window. Our list videos are a lot so it doesn't seem worth the time when the video will only be relevant for a month :/
We will definitely make a list video after the battletome is released!
I think we will discuss index list building with our next livestream in August
@@TheStormkeep I makes total sense. I understand the pain and couldn't agree more. There is a lot of balance issues for sure. Gloomspite Gitz is crazy right now. A 20 man squig herd throws 80+ attacks with 3+ 3+ 1R 1D on the charge for around the points of a reinforced Vindictor squad.
Everyone turn down your speakers at 1:38:00. Jack shows up
How are multiple Lord-Imperatants using their Guide By Lightning in the same turn? Does that not conflict with rule 5.3 The Rules of One?
Oh I see, its not a passive I guess. That'll be FAQ'd for sure.
@@randykeeling1916 It will probably get errata'd... but maybe not!
32 :34 : what is that trick about redeploy ?
Tier list video! Go...
Working on it ;)
Which unit in SCE shuts of wards entirely? My friend plays Troggs, no correlation of course haha
Knight-Relictors can reduce wards by 1, and the Lord-Castellant can disable them entirely
Perfect, thanks!
Thanks for this. I feel that Legends seems to be our main / core units, and the fraction pack is just supplementary stuff. Haha. E.g Army consists of 80% legends, but mix in Longstrikes. This kinda of sucks, cuz it feeds into the theory that GW just buffs these units, sucker competitive players in to buy models (clear old stock) that will be obsolete in a year... Hence the solution will be to enjoy the game casually, wait a year for the "new" SCE to emerge, or just switch fractions ....
Our initial impressions were that the Legends stuff is core to the army, but after crunching the numbers it feels more like a sidegrade. Stormcast are definitely playable and strong without any Legends units.
The main thing Legends offers is more options for Regiments with heroes like Gavriel and Astreia. Hopefully when they move those units to Legends they will also lighten up some list building restrictions for the rest of the army.
There is absolutely zero chance using multiple lord imperatants to give a unit multiple d3 moves is intended. If someone tried to play it that way against me I think I'd just giggle. If I was a TO I would 100% not allow it.
Funnily enough though I'm not sure it is actually all that overpowered. It's so many points.
It certainly doesn't seem like something that is intended, but maybe it is!
@TheStormkeep it'd almost be a shame if it gets errata'd out. Seems like about the only way to use Scions of the Storm offensively in a semi-reliable way. I'd happily pay the points to launch that tactical nuke in a casual game. Stack it with Gardus and Thunderhead Host and there's potential for it to be hilariously OTT
@@cameronR1992 I would prefer if it was D6" move but only once per battle (army). Having to stack two Imperatants feels wrong
Great review thanks !
Two remarks : you view every "good" unit as somewhat overcosted, and the few "great/amazing" ones as perfectly costed ^^
I dont recall you guys ever being that biased, so I wonder if its not just that everything is slightly more expensive in the game, or maybe comparing to the legends stuff is what gives you this slightly pessimistic perspective.
Also, "like" every third word makes for a very hard listening experience, and at times makes it even outright unpleasant 😢 maybe its because im not a native english speaker though and im not used to "real life" american english, but iv seen other people complain on that topic.
@@plazma5343 sometimes the cost of a unit can completely determine their viability! Units that are difficult to use AND expensive tend to perform poorly even if they have powerful attacks/effects
I really love the Tauralon but I honestly hope it's not mandatory. I can't justify spending ebay prices on a model I only get to play for 1 year.
It's the easiest way to get a 5+ Ward, but it's still expensive and there are other ways to get 5+ Wards. Not a "must-have"
@@TheStormkeep yeah for sure, i actually found one for sale but knowing i can only play it 1 year still feels weird
3 units of Prosecutors, 420 points
Bastian Carthlos, 270 points
Move then 12" after all units are deployed to control area.
Alpha-Strike them if you are going first. Kill the important support heroes of the enemy.
When they die you can bring back 2 out of 3 models. Good deal.
What would you do to bring back the models back?
@@weekendwargamers He means reviving one unit with Heavens Sent. It rounds up, so units of 3 come back as a unit of 2. Still, I don't think Prosecutors are the best value for that ability.
@@toferkrz946 Got it, thanks for that. Makes sense. It's not bad they can get 5+ ward when charging in, last a couple of turns, maybe?
2:33 : "Honor Guard" ? what is this ?
It's the seasonal special rule found in the Generals Handbook. After deployment you can pick a unit in your general's regiment and give them a special bonus
When u make the tier pls do it with the non legends unit. Thanks and good video :)
Thank you!
When we release our Stormcast Index Review there will be a tier list with all our units, and a tier list without the Legends units being considered.
The strike-first sidebar is too weird, it doesn't actually explicitly say you cant "share" it at all. I think its just trying to talk about using paired fighting to override debuffs. It also doesn't then say how such abilities do interact with it. So when then does a strike-first immediate attack after unit fight, do I get my +1 hit or whatever or not. What are the "constraints"?
Yeah it's worded poorly. "Constraints" is not a defined term. Needs some cleaning up
What if vigilors had shoot in combat, at a minimum? 🤔
Vigilors just look fine to me, they have a 3+ save now like all our other dudes which they didn't in 3rd. I even like them in 10s, that's 42 attacks half of which will probably be hittings on 2s. Its actually really efficient combined damage and they're still tanky. They're like Judis with slightly less ranged, for a buff, and much better melee. Like they can actually kill secondary targets in melee.
How do you actually manage to talk for so long without getting a sore throat in your extra deep shadvoice xD
awesome content as always.
Warhammer is just incredibly interesting!
I do have a bit of a sore throat this morning, though :P
No underworlds…?
All Underworlds units are now Legends, and not legal for matched play
They will get warscrolls next week you can use for casual play
I'm gonna comment on this repeated use of "If you're using legends" throughout. No one 'isnt' going to be using the legends stuff, it's official rules and theres nothing in the book preventing their use as well as there being nothing that says they need a special case to include them in all forms of play. If you 'arent using legends' you're willfully ignoring like a solid 40% of our official ruleset for no reason. People will stop using them when their rules go away next summer.
tl;dr people have no choice when it comes to their use until next summer. Theres a lot of powerful combos there that if you ignore, you lose, and if you choose not to play against someone using them, well, you lose again.
Half the rules on a 2+ or a 3+ is so fucking stupid I dont think I have the start of a reasonnable explanation.
Have these game designers EVER play a good game before ?
I know I already ranted on that very subject, but in depht look in the new profiles makes it even worse somehow :
THIS IS A DESIGN DECISION ?!
First impressions - negative
They took a nerf bat to the army and beat it mercilessly
(Btw, apparently there was a line because SCE wasn't the only one, imo)
I think skilled players will absolutely mathhammer out 5-0 lists but this is primarily due to said high skill
In general, I nominally agree with Jack that it is mid
I differ in that I think it is just below absolute middle, rather than slightly above ("upper half")
Let's see what happens when the battletome comes out in a few months
So far, this is a repeat of what happened with 10th 40k, imo (and that is not a compliment)
@@cmleibenguth Almost every army has been nerfed (except Lumineth and Kruleboyz...) and they've been nerfed more significantly than Stormcast
When it all shakes out, I think Stormcast look pretty good!
We'll see.
Until then (some tournament results and some more games), based on what I've seen (and that includes more than the order faction packs released today), I disagree emphatically. Some armies were nerfed (like SCE), some were changed (not really nerfed, just different), and others are virtually the same (no nerf or meaningful change). Kruleboyz and Ogors have had meaningful changes, and the former is the only army I can say that has been "buffed" since previous edition (but that's a low threshold given how bad they were before)
Depending on how different (and in what way if different) the Battletome is from the faction pack for SCE, the problems with SCE will be exacerbated in a year when the Legends go away.
You might be underestimating the value of those stats. 3+ save base, weapons on 3+/3+/1… that’s gold. Minuses to hit are gonna murder the game, SCE can take it more than most. And the roster is wide enough to have a tool for everything. Which is not the case for many armies.
@@TheStormkeep I wish Stormcast got the generalist, we can do everything well design its supposed to have, that Lumineth actually has. If the Stormcast range was too big like everyone was so quick to say when they announced the squatting then why does the index without the supplement feel so much like half an army.
@@cmleibenguth I really think the impression of how much better Kruleboyz are is vastly overestimated. The scrolls are the same, the shooting is heavily nerfed. They got an allegiance ability now, that compensates their points going way up.
At 2:26:26 they say that lances on Stormdrakes are better. Why are they better? They have only 1 more rend on the charge, otherwise the damage is the same and in the second round of combat without charge they significantly fall off.