That tweet promoted a lot of "healthy" discussion on twitter and reddit. You can sift through both if you'd like Twitter: x.com/KarQGames/status/1864980190746546524 Reddit: redd.it/1h85i07
@@aleksadjordjevic6353 Thats stupid since role lock is mainly an issue in lower elo, most higher elo players can flex much better. Bad team comps wasnt as a big of an issue in higher elos as people understood that you needed to be able to flex if you wanted to win ontop of the fact that higher elo has a much better understanding of a wide range of characters unlike low elo players.
The game should introduce the "looking for group" feature that Overwatch 1 had. That way, you can form a team and find people with a similar mentality. For OW1, i just stuck with the LFG to atleast have some control over how we play.
@@zeninvites3209 Oh yeah who could forget such wonderful Overwatch LFG group names like "LGBT don't deserve rights" and "N word lynch mob" /s there's a reason why that feature was removed
The NetEase Developers themselves have stated that IF they were to add some sort of restriction to hero select, it would be in the form of MAX 3. Where you can have a maximum of 3 heroes from any role on your team. The reason they stated was they don't want to limit the potential Team-Up bonuses in the future when they add more characters.
IMO they should make it Max 3, minimum 1 to prevent things like pure GOATs and the like. That way each role is present in each match even if it's just one.
Gonna be mashing those DPS as fast as possible to lock it in, and never change. I feel like that's how it'll go, and you'll still have people forced into roles they don't want to play, and will either throw or just be bad at them because your hearts not in it.
It’s just the community that really wants to play team shooters that don’t wanna play as a team. That’s the real issue, crazy how inherently toxic on who these types of games attract.
@@canineatnight6026 log in and kill stuff in the sense that they want to play death match. They don’t want to coordinate dives, ultimates, or play objectives and help their teammates. They play like it’s a solo game. You know what I meant.
@@ralecgos3631 ya but killing stuff is fun, sure they don't realize they could be killing more things if they were to work with their supports and tank but, I don't think they need roleque, not in quickly atleast, maybe a max of 4 of each class in comp, because I have found success in 1 tank 3 dps and 2 support, but I feel like 2 support is always nectary, I guess it depends on how good your support is though
4:27 your math is not quite correct. The answer is 28 team comps. Because order doesn’t matter (two tanks + four dps is the same as four dps + two tanks) this is a combination with replacement problem. You used the formula for permutations with replacement. 28 is much different from 729
Tbh this can be better tho it is dependent on the spwed of your pc and network connection. Why? Cuz everyone is gona slam their tables trying to lock any dps before anybody else then select what characters they actually want
@@ZarelidT Cant tell how many times I told them that cuz I was baffled when I saw a full dmg team. And one at one point switched to tank while I switched to support. They told me that "OBVIOUSLY WE ALREADY HAAVE A TANK, F-ING IDIOT". And at the end of the match I was salty as shit but I was the one that was shit when the whole match that guy had only 6-7 kills as star lord. Like all the matches are like this almost, I get cursed for having an idea how this game works.
More like I would like the ability to occasionally play DPS if I feel like it. I played the game for like 4 hours yesterday and only got to pick DPS one time, I had to fill for tank and support in every match. And I was excited because I was doing pretty good and we were winning, but then one of our tanks randomly swapped to Squirrel Girl and suddenly I had no space to get anything done and the enemy DPS were tearing apart our supports. It continued until I bit the bullet and swapped to tank, and we brought it back slightly but it was too late. Oh, and let me tell you, I do not appreciate being the only tank or only support on a team. Which I often am. Especially tank, I could just go play OW2 for that where the role is balanced around being solo. Role queue in Overwatch didn't make me stop playing tank and support, it just enabled me to play DPS when I'm in the mood to.
@@SureBub Takes like this are why I wish more games were FFA or 1v1. I know most of the people I'm switching for are selfish and don't care like you. However it's not very fun playing a character I want to play if we're just losing. I'd rather win and if someone has to be responsible then it's going to be me.
@ for sure lol i was the pssy that switched to supp day 1 but after i realized i can just instalock DPS and one way or another one of yall is gonna switch to supp its cool with me. Hence why they need role queue 🤓
The biggest issue is that Tanks in Rivals are very different to play from dps or support, whereas if you are a dps player then all the supports play the same way as a dps, but the play style or shooting style of tanks is very different in Rivals, I have a hard time playing tank in Rivals but I fill dps or support easily.
what ive said is; They have "preferred role" in the Factions system already, so why make players choose their preferred roles for when they queue competitive. Then, the matchmaker tries to put 2 of each role on each team, but dont lock them to the role. This way it suggests and sets up roles for players, while allowing the agency to switch if/when needed.
then people will just lie to get faster queues unless you mean the game tries to match the team with players on all roles but if it cant it finds a random game anyways to not increase queue times? also you would still be able to switch roles midgame? thats what you mean right
How would that work if there’s no role lock? If you tell the system that you prefer support, what’s stopping that system from preventing 2 people from installing-locking support when you load into a match?
@@starsnoireartI genuinely dont understand your question but ima try to answer it, if the match maker attempts to make teams based on preference but doesn’t lock you into it you can still enjoy the freedom of swapping and making crazy comps. But the likelihood of getting a more balanced team comp is raised dramatically. Obviously without a complete lock there will never be a guarantee but I personally think forcing good comps shouldn’t be the answer for this game considering its current balance philosophy. Unlike overwatch, rivals seems to be leaning towards the mire casual audience not hyper competitive like overwatch. With its crazy op team ups and characters it’s not supposed to be a structured environment. However, if they want to make the ranked made more enjoyable and fair they should at least encourage players to flex iff dps by adding more support and tank characters with different play styles. Instead if forcing players to fit into a certain mold that higher level players consider to be ideal
The cynic in me thinks that people would simply abuse the system by selecting "sup pref" then instalocking dps, which would just kinda negate the whole system
I don't want role queue. I feel like it'd work better with a role mandate, not locking anyone into a role but mandating that one of each role must be filled to complete a team.
That's locking people into a role. If QP is any indication like 80-90% of people queue to DPS. What happens when all the DPS slots get instantly filled? It's a very bad first note to start any match off with to have leavers or people fighting and begging to be DPS, and then being mad if they have to flex or RQ.
I think min 1 is good but I would be more in favor of max 3 because if it's min 1 it would be difficult to swap off solo tank for example if needed unless your ally already went tank
but the whole point of role lock is for there to be a 1 person on each role, also if you limit it to 3 then conflicts is gonna start, i think just limiting it to min 1 is perfect because it doesnt limit too much
they need to make tanks more fun and engaging to play. Right now theres to much dmg in the game. DPS and supports do crazy dmg and tanks becomes miserable if you have to solo tank
Lowering damage across the board for dps and support would definitely help, though its more likely the reason there is so much damage is because its balanced around there being 2 tanks to soak up some hits. As restricting as role queue is, if you think about what problems are solved if the teams are 2/2/2 then it makes a lot of sense.
I agree but also it’s very conscious design choice because while all that is true potentially ( or it could be early meta), I think that it’s very much designed to make dps feel strong again something that apparently overwatch is lacking ( idk I don’t play much). It might take some getting used too
broooooooo i was solo tanking with thor into iron man, scarlett and cloak i wanted to die lmaoo im just looking at my hp being shredded and trying to fly around hoping for hp and shield health we lost lmaoo it suuuucckkkeeddd
@@sircracksman3517I'm not sure dropping damage this early is the move. I've read online that players are already finding success with GOATS and I fear dropping damage will just make GOATS the standard team comp. That would be miserable
Yes this. The reason overwatch got this issue is because they introduced role lock by the time it died. They stop making content and it left those other roles in the dust.
No there doesn’t. OW had less heroes than this when RQ went live and the community still loved it. We need more tanks and healers for sure but not because of RQ.
@@starsnoireart In fairness, balance was still not good and they did not focus on who is cause the real problems. Still doe, people are more incline to play DPS because their the only class that has more options then the other classes.
possible yes to role lock, hard no to role queue. i remember hearing that the devs don't want the roles to feel rigid, and to have characters that blur the lines and for compositions to require different amounts of each role, so i guess we'll see how well they do with that. tbh, i actually haven't found in my experience that two tanks are better than one, but i also haven't dove into comp yet.
@@vietnamesejesus9378 Role queue would mean picking your role(s) before you start queueing, and the game matches you up with other players in order to guarantee a predefined team comp. (see: 2-2-2 in OW) Role lock means that you queue up with everyone but roles can be "locked out" of being selected. eg. if they did a "limit 3" role lock, selecting 3 DPS characters would make selecting a 4th impossible. or if they did a "1 hero of each role" role lock, a team with 3 DPS 2 support would force the last player to select tank. Role lock would mean the queue time problem wouldn't exist, and you would get the flexibility of being able to swap between roles mid-game. but it could also cause people to get mad and possibly leave/throw if they don't lock the role they wanted.
In Role Queue, the ratio of heroes per role in the hero roster is very important to reduce queue times. A major lack of Tank & Support heroes compared to DPS heroes is a big reason DPS had the longest queue times by far in OW1 (there was 8 Tanks, 17 DPS, 7 Supports).
i really hope you stick with this game. You've been a blessing at teaching us Overwatch and many of us would definitely want to learn about Marvel heroes through your content. Cheers and thanks.
I agree. All I’m asking for is a Max 3, Min 1 type of role lock. Don’t necessarily need a full 2-2-2 role queue, just something to ease the burden of constantly being the only player to pick one of the other two roles. I did it for 3 years of Overwatch. I ain’t doing it for more than a couple weeks in another hero shooter.
This isn't even an Overwatch or Marvel Rivals issue, nobody wants to play tank in any game and it always has the least amount of players due to needing a certain masochist mentality.
Not really you just have to trust your support if you're the others or trust you're team to deal enough damage if you're the support. I won a couple of ranked games with me being the only one who was willing to support but if you play someone like dagger or luna and focus on healing mostly you can do it
from my 50 hours in the game thats not true, if you have 1 tank then that means you are gonna have more of other roles meaning more damage, 1 support isnt that big of an issue in my opinion also there is so many support players, people instalock support on ranked
No, they just need more characters in the other roles that’d make more people want to play as them. The majority of characters right now are attackers, we just need more tanks and support that are appealing and that’s it. Otherwise in the future you could potentially lose out on team bonuses and also matches will take longer to queue if you can’t find a certain role, and it will also limit what you can pick at respawn if you’re locked into a role.
Has nothing to do with the amount of characters in said role. The reality is no one wants to play tank or healer. No matter the game from overwatch to world of Warcraft. DPS is just known to be more “fun”. The problem is most people think DPS is the only way to play fast paced and deal the most damage and get the most kills so they can win MVP and feel like they did something. It’s just a mindset thing even though support and tanks deal more damage and are the reason most people win games.
The math you have is dramatically incorrect, the 3 roles on a team of 6 do not have 729 combinations, there are only 28. 6 players with each player having 3 options would be 3^6 if order mattered, but it doesn't. 2 Vanguards 2 Duelists 2 Tacts is the same as 2 Tacts 2 Vanguards 2 Duelists in game, but would be considered 2 different combinations according to your math. The answer is actually 28, arrived to either by 5 minutes of writing down the combinations or (3+6-1)Choose(3-1)=8!/(6!2!)=28
It’s not too bad on Thor, as long as I have a strat like Jeff or mantis to actually keep the heals on me. What tank do you play that makes it difficult?
@@mushroomduck1345 Fellow tank main here. Venom is miserable with only 1 healer or 1.5 healers (one inexperienced healer). Ill dive in, fish for a kill, swing out to the back line again to refresh and if Im lucky one of the hopefully two healers will fill me back up. If not Im either stuck there spamming the heal command to get their attention, or running around like a headless chicken to try and find a weak healing drop or run all the way back to spawn. Solo tanks are SQUISHY. The amount of damage coming out is designed for 2 tanks for sure. If more than 2-3 people are focusing a tank at any time they will die for sure without strong healing focus
Strongly disagree. I play tank a lot, and honestly, one good tank can make up for a lot. I play solo tank pretty decently especially at the start when i was climbing ranks, and I’ve never had an issue creating space and doing my job. The real issue isn’t the number of DPS but the skill of most DPS players. A lot of lower-elo DPS players in MR still don’t understand their role. They think their damage numbers matter, but it really doesnt. You can have 15k damage with only 8 kills and still be playing poorly if you’re not focusing healers. Damage without impact is meaningless but the loss has very little to do with being one tank. Look at games like valorant for example, you can easly win a game with 1 duelist instead of 2, same goes for overwatch even though it is more hero based
@winterwinter6558 I'm for open q but a big flaw is that let's say ur a good dps but ur team already has 2-3 dps so u have to flex but ur not a good tank or support so that already makes ur team wayyy weaker. If u play in the higher ranks that makes it even worse because people are going to really know how to play their role so a weak link is a big problem. I think for a healthy high ranks is to have at least soft role lock
Lets not make this game an overwatch clone. I remember ow1 ranked matchmaking. Ive had my fair share of 5 dps and me the solo support game or 2 tanks, 3 dps, and me support. As a support main, i just accept it. Let the playerbase specific to marvel rivals lend their voice to the direction of the game. Cause while your points are fine for balancing, are they fair for fun? Will they generate revenue from the casual playbase who wants to auto lock spiderman and bully widow? I don't think 2 2 2 is even needed in this game because dps is very strong. Similar to launch ow1. Just give it time, let the meta define itself and then see if it's a problem
I'd honestly be curious to see how effective role preference over role lock is. The system I'm suggesting is only for comp, or at the very least, not for the first X games in Quick Play so new players don't get punished. - When you queue, you select a role you'd prefer to play (you won't be locked into the role) - This is purely so the matchmaker can get at least 1 player of each role for a team - So people don't try to game the system and prefer a role with the shortest queue time (with the intent to not play that role), if you play a role different than the one you queued for 2 consecutive games, the system will automatically prefer your role for the next game only - The system will warn you one game ahead of time if you're about to be auto-preferred - If a player is a repeatable offender, make the punishment more severe over time (such as timeouts from comp) Idk, maybe my system sucks. I find it as a good middle ground for pro-lock and anti-lock, but I am unsure as to if it's the best solution...
What I don’t get is how a preferred role system is supposed to work when there is no role-queue and people are free to insta-lock any character they want when they load up the game? Even if I tell the system that I prefer to play Strategist, without a built-in limitation like RQ what’s stopping 2 randoms from insta-locking supports as soon as the lobby loads? Either you either create a system where people are fully / partially guaranteed to play the role they prefer, or you aren’t doing anything at all.
I always like protect the president comps where you just buff and peel for one single hyper-carry dps. 3 Strategist 2 Vanguard, 1 Duelist would probably work with a Hela.
I think a soft role limit would fit better. Don't make queue times worse by splitting up the players by role, have roles lock out when 3-4 players have already locked in said role. If people leave because they couldn't lock in Duelist fast enough, give them a time out from queueing, weed out the weak
Roll limit might be the best compromise Ive seen going around, max 3 of a role allows for more team comps while not gutting the teams ability to sustain itself through lack of a damage sponge or recovery.
That would slowly hurt the player base and kill the game. Also, weeding out the weak as in paying customers? Try saying that to investors. I agree with Johnah.
TIME OUTS ARE NEVER A GOOD IDEA💯HORRIBLE GAME DESIGN TO GIVE SOMEBODY A 30 MINUTE BAN JUST BECAUSE U QUIT OUT OF SOMETHING THAT ISNT EVEN A RANKED MODE💔💔💔(SPEAKING FROM 2K EXPERIENCE)
@@ZNemerald No wonder Overwatch is doing amazing right after adding Role quece? I love to sit 20 mins for one match because of this stupid Role quece system, yeah this totally didn't slowly hurt the playerbase and kill the game, Kinda Ironic don't you think so.
Guys let me just say this 80% of the people who insta lock DPS are flat out trash who don’t know how team base game works. If you want to win and deal more damage than any DPS, choose mantis snow or Adam and Thor, venom and magneto. Not only will you dictate how much games you can possibly win but you’ll be MVP or have the most kills trust me tanks and healers are what win games. As of rn I’m top 8% in comp and my squad runs goats against DPS squads or one DPS because sustain plus damage is crazy on these characters. Let that seek in if people want to instalock DPS be the bigger person or just play DPS and make them lose lmaooo
@ Goats is a line comprised of three tanks and three supports. The goal is to be unkillable and slowly advance the game. It’s kinda toxic, but in a game where supports actually deal tons of damage if you have people who can’t hit their shots or your running into lineups comprised of DPS you can steam roll any comp with goats. The line up you’ll run mostly is Thor,Dr.Strange,venom/magneto Supports mantis,Snow,Adam/cloak and dagger.
3 max is a nice idea but if they dont change how picking characters work. Someone who sucks on tank and support can be locked out of dps and forced to pick something they suck at. Compared to 1 minimum you can always play the role you actually want.
They’ve already patched the game. Dr.Strange killing his own team to feed his ult is ridiculous and not an intended use. Things like that shouldn’t exist
@@SSJAlterI think you misunderstood me. I'm not talking about him killing the other team. There used to be a strategy where Dr. Strange would send his own team off the map, he would gain ult charge for all the kills and have 100% ult right as the match started. With no patching, things like this would run wild
There shouldn’t be role lock so soon but there should be a role limit, like a maximum of 3 per role Edit: there could also be a system where you lock in a role before the game begins like in ow and then get placed in a game where there are at least 1 of each role and the enemy is mirrored. So like one game it might be 132 vs 132 Then the next game it’s 213 vs 213 Etc. I hope I explained it well enough 😅
I'm pretty open minded. As you said, the playerbase is still figuring out the game so I think it's a matter of 'see where it goes' I'm a low-rank player so my opinion doesn't matter much competitively, but I like an idea I've been hearing of a role limit rather than a lock. i.e upper limit of 3 on any given role. While it still leaves the issue of 2 vanguard / 3 duelist, i think it mitigates the issue of too many duelists and choosing between strategist/vanguard is a more even choice because duelist isn't a factor
I wish they can balance the game so that most team compositions are competitive. Maybe add passive healing of some sort to alleviate the need of 2 healers. One idea could be to add something similar to what overwatch has right now with kingmaker mode where if one role is solo they get some buffs. That way you will probably get at least one tank and healer without forcing it since they know they will be buffed and a 1-1-4 could be competitive.
nah passive healing will be very bad it will cause dps to be all over the place as they can just heal out of nowhere, theres gonna be no frontlines because everyone will be spread out also the value of supports will drop because alot of people will think that "we have passive healing so im not going support" this can also end up in less support players also kingmaker wont work its just bad btw im on your side, i want this game to be open queue but min 1 open queue isnt bad for ranked
If we end up in the scenario where the standard comp becomes 1 tank, 1 support and the rest DPS then in the name of balance the devs will need to either A: Nerf damage across the board or B: Hyper buff the tanks and supports to keep up with the damage coming in If they dont implement role queue then the former is the most likely but that comes with the consequence of DPS characters taking longer to kill as well. Its a complicated issue and going either way has its pros and cons. I certainly dont think Id enjoy a future solo tanking as Venom and be deleted from full HP and optimal overshield use + healing because 2 DPS turned around and sneezed
Shouldnt*** I much rather be with teammates that are able to adapt and swap as the game goes on. Sometimes when i see my team needs help with a push ill go venom just for that one push and then ill go back to support. Its fun to be able to change as the game goes on and youre not as restricted
@@jose-gregor4645 not true, tanking is fun in this game but dps is just "more" fun and you cant change that, dps will be always more fun ( im a tank player btw) also tanking has massively improved, solo tanking against a 2 2 2 feels so much better than playing tank in ow2
@@merokrl then go grind ranked and solo tank....I am sorry but u cant tell me it will be fun cuz u will get obliterated and outsustained 9/10 fights in an even skilled math (it is not a game problem it is a role problem)
I personally think we should have a role que system as a mainly tank some support player. The games where I’m the only tank or only support are straight up unplayable. And don’t get me started on the games where I have 5 dps on my team and am forced to pick between heals or a frontline. Role Que isn’t what made overwatch bad can we stop pretending it is? Overwatches downfall was due to poor balance decisions and the switch to a 5v5 format. As someone who has time to play 2 or 3 games at best after work i would like those games to be balanced at the very least.
I see it as this: There will always be games that you lose in any multiplayer game. So for me, I think open queue is better for this game primarily because of 1) how its balanced and 2) the identity of the game. \ Yes games where you want to play duelist and you load up to see 5 other players lock the role is frustrating, but I don't see how thats any different from someone locking a bad match up in OW or when someone is just straight up bad on your team. Atleast with marvel rivals, I can switch to a role (despite not wanting to intiially play that role) and I could have a greater chance of winning compared to lets say playing DPS on OW and getting a bad tank. Yea I might lose the game with a 0/5/1 comp, but atleast I know there is still power in my hands to change the outcome of the game.
Exactly. Since Marvel Rivals has less difference between the roles than Overwatch, it allows for more skill expression rather than you win or lose because of a passive that someone has (e.g. tanks in OW2 having DR on headshots, less ult charge gained from shooting them, armor, etc.). Also, it is a good thing that there is no static passive health regeneration.
I severely hope the devs see this. Your ideas of improving the game are spot on. As a tank main, sometimes it just feels pointless like we solely rely on support characters so there should definitely be characters from say Spider-Man’s world that they could pull from and make them a healer and have team up abilities.
Frankly minimum 1 is the best idea purely because of teammups. Teammups are the elephant in the room when it comes to getting players to run comps. Another thing we are missing is yes more A-List tanks and supports to get more players interested cause as of now people are playing for that fantasy of being that hero.
I would agree specifically for supports / strategists. Loki has a pretty big draw but he also is one of the least beginner friendly character in the game due to his ult. Rocket Raccoon is a fairly well loved character but certainly not an A-Lister, and everyone agrees that it's weird for him to be a strategist anyway. I don't think this is the problem for tanks tho? I mean Magneto and Captain America certainly are A-List. Thor and Dr Strange are also super popular Avengers. But if your favorite character is Cap or Magneto, and you are playing that character with 4-5 dps behind you, then you don't get to enjoy it. Instead you get to experience your favorite character getting the living shit kicked out of them with almost nothing you can do to stop it.
Role Queue helps causals more than they think. In Overwatch, when you get players that one trick. the majority of the time it is because they are good at that character and that characters mechanics speaks to them. OW's IP is not dictating character choices. THAT IS NOT WHAT IS GONNA HAPPEN IN MARVEL RIVALS. You will 100% get casuals who queue up as spider-man. Simply because that is fucking spiderman. It does not matter how good they are. They will queue up as wolverine. It doesnt matter how good the character is. It doesnt matter how good the player is. Fuck team synergy. I am playing goddamn spiderman! People will one-trick for reasons completely unrelated to the game. And you cant even blame them. For super marvel fans, why wouldnt they play their stan characters? OW does not have this issue.
nah it applies for overwatch aswell, you dont realize how many people just 1 trick rein or genji because they watched one cinematic about them also you would be suprised how many casual people get really angry about not being able to find a game for 10+ minutes, most casual players have jobs meaning they cannot afford to waste their time too much, the ranked tryhards in these type of games are mostly streamers, esports players, or teens who are still at school.
Role Queue doesn't work so well when the team up feature exists and there are some team ups that require 2 of a single role selecting specific characters. There's also the divide per role of someone who mains melee vs someone who mains ranged characters. I've had games in gold as tank for attack Yggdrasil with a 1-3-2, but I had to switch to Punisher to turret in spawn to open space for the first push. In this case to capture first point and go on to win the game, a 0-4-2 was the ideal comp.
You have to find a way to stop players from all picking dps. limit 3 wont work as it becomes a role race to dps, making slower dps throw game on tank and heal. Role has to be a thing even if you split the mode from open one one side and role on the other. That way player that dont want to wait on que and play QP and risk having bad teams or go role que and maybe wait a little bit and have better games.
eeerrrmmm actusually when we ignore repetition the number of teamcomps is actually 28. Using a method that's often called "stars and bars" we arrange the 6 team comp slots as stars and roles as bars as e.g. "**|**|**" means 2-2-2 teamcomp. By moving the bars around we seperate the 6 team members into 3 different roles. In order to solve the problem, we just need to reorder the stars and bars by choosing the spots for the 3-1 bars out of the 6+3−1 total spots, Thus there are (6+3-1)C(3-1) = 8C2 = 28 team comps
Agreed, especially on the eventually and Competitive only. So far I've only had 1 match (today in fact) where we lost because nobody wanted to go healer. I'm usually the person to suck it up and go tank or healer depending on what is needed cause I was too slow and we already have 3-4 DPS but this time it was a funny moment where I picked my DPS early and the team filled out as 3 tanks and 3 DPS. We lost hard, like not even a contest just a stomp and yet nobody changed to healer or even mentioned it in chat. I didn't change cause I was just fascinated and determined that this time I shouldn't have to be the one to cave. But nobody did, they all seemingly either didn't notice, care or expected somebody would eventually switch. It was weird.
Role limit would be 1000% better. Because at the end of the day role queue doesnt fix the actual problem we’re just gonna be stuck with longer queue times bc people will only queue for duelist. It should be that you get in a lobby and can only have three of each role MAX. That will force people to be comfortable with vanguard and strategist characters as back ups just in case they dont get duelist. Also no role queue for qp, qp should remain a godless, lawless wasteland
@@lawfulgoodnun1646 Or…you could avoid the dps players (the largest portion of the player base) complaining about long queues by just implementing role limit. It forces them to learn a new role like you said but keeps queues low.
MR *needs* role queue, right now ranked is barely playable. If we get it for season 1 that'd be ideal. *Nobody opens the game and queues up to play a role they don't like.* Some people are totally ok with flexing, most aren't.
I think the game should stray away from the OW path and do its own thing. Clearly it's a lot of fun for a lot of people who missed the unhinged era of OW, and the two don't need to necessarily compete. If I personally lose the option, in comp, to swap off a role to enable a team ability or bolster an era we're lacking, then I'm no longer interesting in the game. Then it's just a race for balance vs. the game that's already been around for 8.5 years. Why do that.
the 6v6 hero shooter with the same gamemodes and classes and game systems literally cannot stray far away from overwatch. it is so heavily inspired that it is genuinely not possible.
@@jonah-b7kJust because something is inspired by something doesn't mean they have to copy it completely. Also Overwatch copied it's game modes from TF2. Since you want to talk about copying.
Why did they go for a 3 roles game set-up? When OW launched, we had tanks/healers/offensive dps and defensive dps. I hope they stay away from copying OW and remain their own game.
1. The defense/offense roles were useless and only gave people another reason to flame their teammates, a la "you're playing mei on attack; why are you throwing?" 2. Teams consisting of tanks, healers, and dps predates overwatch
Overall, I disagree with the concept of "role queue" because I think it's a lazy approach to meta balancing. A lot of people compare this game to Overwatch (which is fair), but they forget why role queue was added in the first place - certain metas became too strong, and most of them revolved around tanks. One of Overwatch’s biggest issues was that you didn’t really need DPS since tanks could double as DPS with way more health. Add 1-3 healers to that, and you had an unbreakable comp. Most Overwatch players agree the GOATS meta was awful, but I don’t see that happening here, and I’ll explain why. First, I’ve noticed tanks in this game aren’t as strong as Overwatch tanks. They feel more balanced and are clearly designed to create space instead of dishing out massive damage. In Overwatch, tanks would often have the highest damage in the game. As a tank main, I’d regularly get gold or silver in damage. In this game, however, DPS actually feel like DPS, which makes a huge difference. Second, I think the abundance of dive-focused agents will prevent the healer problem that plagued Overwatch. In OW, certain healers became nearly impossible to kill due to tank guarding. In MR, with the addition of so many more dive agents compared to OW, like characters such as "Spiderman" and "Iron Fist," it’s much easier to take down supports and get out fast. The best way for these dive agents to be countered is by fast-acting DPS, something tanks simply can’t do as well in Marvel Rivals compared to Overwatch. That said, we’re definitely going to see strong metas - we already are - but I just don’t think role queue is the solution. It feels like a lazy cop-out. One of the best parts of Overwatch was the creativity of team comps and plays. Marvel Rivals is already nudging us toward specific metas and comps with the synergy of team-up abilities. Some of these are super strong (like the Hela, Thor, Loki combo) and will definitely shape the way we play. Role queue would kill the creativity that makes team-building so fun, which is a core part of hero shooters (whether people realize it or not). Now, I’m not saying there shouldn’t be any control over wild metas, because if things get too out of hand, it can ruin the game. I’d be okay with a system that limits the number of tanks or healers per team, but I don’t think it should be tied to the queue. For example, maybe you can’t have more than 3 tanks at once, or maybe certain characters like Doctor Strange count as “extra strong” and limit how many other tanks you can have with him. This is just a rough idea, but it would allow for flexibility and creativity while still keeping things balanced. I also think it’s important to add more vanguards and strategists like you said but to also diversify them. For example, a strategist doesn’t have to be a healer - they could help the team in other ways with utility or CC. This would naturally delay any kind of meta-lock like we saw in Overwatch. I also wanted to comment on a point you made about players "ego locking" roles or being forced to play roles they aren't good at and now it throws games. I think that argument is weak and a lot of this is only really seen in low elos. Most gamers understand the 20-20-60 rule (20% of games you’re guaranteed to win, 20% you’re guaranteed to lose, and 60% are winnable if you play well). No matter what game you’re playing - Valorant, Overwatch, Marvel Rivals, League of Legends - you will have bad teammates sometimes. It’s inevitable. What separates good players from the rest is adaptability. If you want to rank up, you can’t just hard lock one role (shit a GM tank that cant hit shots or player other aspects of the game like properly heal, to me is a bad player no matter what the ranks say). The best way to improve is to have a main role (and 2-3 characters you’re really good at within that role) but also have at least one pick in every other role so you can flex when needed. Role queue actually removes that element of skill. It’s a lot less impressive to see a GM support player than a GM DPS player for example. Long story short, there are better ways to balance metas than to just throw in a role queue. It’s lazy, it kills creativity, and it comes with its own set of problems. Let’s not forget that role queue was one of the main reasons Overwatch died. It caused long queue times and completely killed the creativity that made the game so fun. Yes, some things in this game will need balance changes and maybe even reworks, but role queue isn’t the answer.
The game is overwatch. 6v6 hero shooter. payload. ultimates. it is literally an overwatch-like, and that's fine, but it was very obviously the main inspiration for this game. it is why so many overwatch players are playing it.
@@jonah-b7k he means by the differences not in the general style of the game meaning he doesnt want role queue or 5v5 added to marvel rivals, he wants the game to stay as a team shooter, at this point in ow2 the game is so individual based than ow1 that its turning into a team deathmatch rather than a team game at this point
The 3^6=729 possible compositions isn't correct, it's a gross overestimate. What is assumed is the order of the roles matters (player 1 chooses healer and player 3 chooses dps being different from the vice-versa). The correct number is (7 choose 2) = 21, which is much closer to the correctly calculated 10 possibilites for the case in which every role must have a representative.
It is inherently a competitive game. however people really only ever use the character they like. So you could be playing in competitive and be the only Tank with one healer and 4 dps. this is a terrible team comp. Not to mention role que could help in other ways. 5v5 shouldn't have role que but a 6v6 should. %v5 shouldn't cause you can never have balance there, instead of 2 of each role one would end up being only one of that type. Meanwhile 6v6 allows for 2 of each role which is a balanced team comp. Edit: I love playing the tank tbh especially doctor strange. He has one of the most powerful self combos in the game. He has the best Ult combos in the game...portal. He can portal a scarlet witch bomb onto the enemy.
@@The_Jragon it is when some people want do that including me. Maybe I tried out tank and I'm not having fun so I want to swap to support. If I'm role queued as a tank, I would have to leave the game to do that.
Biggest problem is that this early into the games life people dont care about winning they care about being their favorite character lol, as the meta develops and more characters of each role are release the problem will solve itself no need to choke the games freedom of choice before its an actual issue
it'll stay exactly like that. The people that are now saying "fuck you, I'll do what I want even if it means the other 5 of you will have a miserable game" will continue to do so
I think that for competitive play, yes it needs a role queue. But for QP and casual gamemodes no. This game is a massive worldwide IP that everyone of all ages loves. Thus it has a very diverse group of players of all ages from across the world. Appealing to specifically the competitive players ends up killing the fun for the casual players like what happened for Overwatch when QP role queues were added and the infamous 30 minute queue times happened.
this is why MARVEL RIVALS SHOULD NEVERRRRRRRRRRRR EVERRRRRRRRRRRRR LISTEN TO X OVERWATCH PLAYERS. THEY FKED UP OVERWATCH BECAUSE OF THEIR BIITCHING AND STUPID IDEAS RIVALS SHOULD ONLY LISTEN TO CS GO PLAYERS. NO FKINGG ROLE LOCK. NO PLAYER DIVIDED. marvel rivals devs. neverrr everrr listen to those failed overwatch players NEVERRR or your game will go down just like overwatch
This game is ruined for me by having no role lock. It reminds me why I quit OW1 I have been the “better” man my entire gaming career. Always taking the roles the team never wanted so we could actually have a good game. Probably why I’m a support main now. But I was forced to play support almost every game in OW1. I’ve finally given in to the dark side and said fuck it with Marvels Rivals. I play whatever I want always and if no one will switch I guess the game ends quickly at least. I wish they’d lock roles but do a role preferred system like League. You select which roles you’d like in order from most to least and the matchmaker tries to find you a game while balancing queue time vs roles needed. If you end up on your least favorite role you’re guaranteed your favorite for the next match. It’s a nice mix of both. Keep your ranks for roles separate.
karq, I want to clarify something about your thoughts on this. When talking cons of role lock, you mention queue times. This would only be a problem if it were queue locked like overwatch, which is what I first thought you implied. But then you mentioned a min 1 role lock, which cannot be implemented as a queue lock; everyone would still queue in to a game without choosing a role. A queue lock-less role lock would not make queue times any worse, but would still keep that pressure to be the one who flexes, I dont think that fixes any issues really with the current state.
I think light role q with preference category like people answer they prefer vanguard but have a willingness to play some support or dps and vise versa then role q just makes sure that atleast one person of each preference is on a team that way it's still open to switch ups where they need a specific hero on dps or support and the best person at the hero icon tank they can swap roles
No. Overwatch is dumb because of role lock. If u want to win u play the role. I dont want your preeching about stable this and that. This way its more fun and actually 3 dps 1 vanguard seems to be a bigger meta.
I do want role lock! I don’t mind playing tank or heals but my god I’m not gonna do it for bronze players so they can run up and whiff every shot when I could just swap hela and kill everything my self. When we have good dps though I enjoy the team aspect of everything, but idk why they didn’t implement unranked matches to separate the people who can aim from those who can’t.
I respect your points but I do not agree. your pro/cons list is made based on the assumption that 2-2-2 is statically better than 6 duelist or any other comp win rate wise. that is just a balancing problem and MR does not have to follow OW.
I think they should keep it mostly as is what they can do is have players pick a preferred role: If you mainly play tank, you can choose tank as your preferred role, but still be able to pick any character. Now obviously, people will lie for faster queue times, so simply make it that you can only choose a preferred role if it is more than 50% of your played games.
I don’t know If it’s somehow possible, But I suggest every Player can choose whether they want to play Competive in a role Lock Environment or not. Players choosing the Role Lock get on a Team with the people who chose in role Lock as Well. While the others who opted out of Role Lock get matched together as well. Now matchmaking can be Locked Team vs. Locked Team, Not Locked vs. Locked or Not Locked vs. Not Locked. Everybody can choose what they would rather want and accept the different Q times.
I think Marvel Rivals is waiting to see if they can get away with the players solving the problem for them. Valorant has made it so that people will pick the smokes role out of the desire to win most of the time, and maybe that will be the case here as well, as people are still getting used to the novelty of the game and all the heroes. Once that’s done I think people will be more interested in winning. But then again valorant not allowing switching in the middle of the match may be what pressured people to picking smokes because it’d essentially be unwinable.
I feel like they need to make team-ups more impactful and synergizes with the three roles well and not just something that only the DPS and some tanks can enjoy, so that you're encouraged to form a good team comp.
I agree with the team up part and do think that it will solve/mitigate the problem to a dgree. I also do think that not having a tank in a competitive format is kinda bad could be something that can be interesting, IMO support is the most important role there is as long as a team comp has supports I think it's a viable team comp but not in a similar skill bracket cause how is a DPS/support supposed to do their work if 2 snipers are staring right at them with meaty shields in front to protect them, for context I was a ramattra enjoyer back in my ow2 days but here no tank has picked my interest, I was looking forward to playing as thor but turns out he is underwhelming as a solo tank, secondly most of my comp matches I have to switch to tank, I personally find the dps catagory in rivals way more fun and mechanically less challenging(for example: iron fist), that's why didn't play dps in overwatch cause I find it way more mechanical challenging but I never got the chance to play it no one and I mean NO ONE decides to play tank off the bat not even SUPPORTS everyone is DPS. So yes while while it is less fun this way I think If both team doesn't have a tank then it's a completely different story and an interesting at that which I would love to see in a pro match.
No role queue means you can have both all-rounder and situational picks and combine them for a lot of different strategies. Maybe there should be a requirement for at least one character of each role and/or a limit to the picks in competitive, but I like this freedom. After all, this is what forced certain picks in OW to have to be changed quite significantly, or be in need for that, when it turned from a 6v6 to a 5v5.
What if instead of enforcing 2-2-2 or Min 1 for each, they just matched the roles of the teams? Both teams may have 1 tank and 5 dps, but it would technically be fair. In matches without heals, you would have to use cover. Some heroes would be very weak or strong in different situations. With team-ups in the game, players are already incentivized to play a variety of heroes rather than main a single hero, and this would also reward flexibility. Would also minimize queue times. Of course, the downside is that if a role is very underrepresented, you may rarely see tanks or healers.
The interesting thing to see will be the way the dev will balance the game/ new hero kits, etc. The funniest part of playing overwatch for me has been getting mechanically/ strategically better or the outplay ability. I feel that brings a lot of fun to the game, and promotes dedicating time and effort to learning different hero kits/ strats. It become demoralizing when you loose to something perceived as/ actually unfair or less skill intensive. Games looks fun, definitely be playing a lot more. Appreciate you starting up this channel!
Game is fun as-is...for now. Definitely once metas and character knowledge starts to solidify, the thing that low rank players are gonna remember the most is how inconsistent match quality is, with half their games having balanced comps and the other half being straight throwing in the spawn room with hero selection. Classic Overwatch was unplayable in metal ranks prior to role queue because all the bad people who fought over who got to play the cool sniper or the cool ninja fell down to those ranks and while a lot of people got mad and quit after role queue, those were the players OW really needed to go elsewhere anyway, and I can't imagine how many players left OW on account of poor quality matches up until that point. On that note, also glad to not see "GIVE ME 'X' OR I THROW" in spawn like what was so prevalent in early OW but the flipside is definitely everybody wants to play their favorite comic book hero even if that hero is functionally useless and MMR hopefully sends those players down to a rank where they can enjoy their awful melee hero and neither be constantly frustrated due to lack of performance nor continue to frustrate teammates because they're not swapping off whatever useless hero makes them think of happier times while essentially functioning as an empty player slot. NetEase has a lot to learn, but the catch this time is there's already a how-to guide readily available that they're well aware of but choosing to not look at, at least that we're aware of. I will say this though: you mentioned that people remember the high highs of winning with an inefficient comp, but I decided to be that guy who was solo tanking with 3 duelists to just throw up my hands and go 4th duelist. It was the pick. It won the game. Tables turned, victory secured, History Captured...and then I thought it was weird that I couldn't remember a single instance in all my years of Overwatch where that happened, or if it happened, that I couldn't recall it at all. All I remember was how bad it was all the time, with the good games being good, the bad games being bad, and the games in the middle all generally also being bad because you had to babysit grown adults and massage their egos so they'd play, or you'd have a good thing going and then somebody would get mad and throw. The ratio of bad to good was so high that the good was drowned out, and drowned out so notably that role queue making the ratio change for the better was far more visible than any good game I might've had prior. Maybe not everybody else's experience, but worth thinking about.
I thought about it long and hard and my suggestion is if you're lacking of one of these rolls you get a buff of certain kind example like you have the healing buff without supports or if you have no DPS you have more damage and if you have no tanks you have more HP something like that. Because I do not want the same solution I want more variety and more creativity.
For competitive/ranked mode, yeah why not? For "normal" mode, it's a no from me. I just want to have some fun, I don't care about coordinating tactics with random players, I don't care whether I win or lose the match. Just let me play the characters I want
In my experience in the Asia servers, I am getting matched in rooms where we get fewer DPS mains, and it's a huge problem sometimes. I don't main a role as I can flex, but that just means I'm not the best at any role. It's hard to excel as my comfort pick, Namor, when my other DPS team mate is Scarlet Witch, then we get like, Venom, Luna, Jeff, and Adam Warlock to fill the team out. I suppose the positive is that there's less DPS mains, but without DPS mains, we can't contest anything lmao.
Literally I feel all role queue would add is just miserable waiting times for specific classes, which breaks up one of the biggest strengths imo of its very quick gameplay loop. Queueing up for a next match literally just takes a second, but role queues could massively make it more tedious to get into a game just because you want to play punisher. It's a big sore point that made me not like overwatch 2.
I would also be fine if they added a main role at an off-roll if they were to do roll queue I just don't want marvel rivals to have to compromise on the open queue so that way it can just be like overwatch was. Ex you can flex main role dps off role tank
role limit at best but the issue would come in for needing this in theory when we get that one new hero that suddenly shifts a meta into removing a need for X role and causing a major balance issue overall. that is the one thing I can see that would want the role lock to exist.
That tweet promoted a lot of "healthy" discussion on twitter and reddit. You can sift through both if you'd like
Twitter:
x.com/KarQGames/status/1864980190746546524
Reddit:
redd.it/1h85i07
No. It really really shouldn’t have role lock.
role lock from plat and above not now and not before that rank
@@aleksadjordjevic6353 Thats stupid since role lock is mainly an issue in lower elo, most higher elo players can flex much better. Bad team comps wasnt as a big of an issue in higher elos as people understood that you needed to be able to flex if you wanted to win ontop of the fact that higher elo has a much better understanding of a wide range of characters unlike low elo players.
The game should introduce the "looking for group" feature that Overwatch 1 had. That way, you can form a team and find people with a similar mentality. For OW1, i just stuck with the LFG to atleast have some control over how we play.
@@zeninvites3209 Oh yeah who could forget such wonderful Overwatch LFG group names like "LGBT don't deserve rights" and "N word lynch mob" /s there's a reason why that feature was removed
The NetEase Developers themselves have stated that IF they were to add some sort of restriction to hero select, it would be in the form of MAX 3.
Where you can have a maximum of 3 heroes from any role on your team.
The reason they stated was they don't want to limit the potential Team-Up bonuses in the future when they add more characters.
personally I think max of 4
@@saat14095 thats far too many, might as well not have a max at that point
IMO they should make it Max 3, minimum 1 to prevent things like pure GOATs and the like. That way each role is present in each match even if it's just one.
@@lefthandrule638 no minimum...
Gonna be mashing those DPS as fast as possible to lock it in, and never change. I feel like that's how it'll go, and you'll still have people forced into roles they don't want to play, and will either throw or just be bad at them because your hearts not in it.
It’s just the community that really wants to play team shooters that don’t wanna play as a team. That’s the real issue, crazy how inherently toxic on who these types of games attract.
Yep
My brother and I call them the "Call of Duty" players. They want to log in and kill stuff. They don't want to coordinate.
how ironic...
@@canineatnight6026 log in and kill stuff in the sense that they want to play death match. They don’t want to coordinate dives, ultimates, or play objectives and help their teammates. They play like it’s a solo game. You know what I meant.
@@ralecgos3631 ya but killing stuff is fun, sure they don't realize they could be killing more things if they were to work with their supports and tank but, I don't think they need roleque, not in quickly atleast, maybe a max of 4 of each class in comp, because I have found success in 1 tank 3 dps and 2 support, but I feel like 2 support is always nectary, I guess it depends on how good your support is though
4:27 your math is not quite correct. The answer is 28 team comps. Because order doesn’t matter (two tanks + four dps is the same as four dps + two tanks) this is a combination with replacement problem. You used the formula for permutations with replacement. 28 is much different from 729
this is y this video is stupid
thank you bro, i was gonan say this
@@omegawaffles7348 how does this make the video stupid?
@@AbdullahAlharbi-rr5xq un accurate info. thats why dummy
swapping even 1 of the characters will make a completely different team composition what are you not understanding
Role limit at most
Tbh this can be better tho it is dependent on the spwed of your pc and network connection. Why? Cuz everyone is gona slam their tables trying to lock any dps before anybody else then select what characters they actually want
It’s the team shooter community NOT wanting to play like a team. It’s bs how the community doesn’t play like a TEAM.
@sebastianbelu1417then people have to learn to flex. Some games you’ll load in slower some games you won’t. But you can’t just stick to one main
@@paulakroy2635 exactly, all good players can play at least one hero outside there usual role… and they don’t mind flexing
@@ZarelidT Cant tell how many times I told them that cuz I was baffled when I saw a full dmg team. And one at one point switched to tank while I switched to support. They told me that "OBVIOUSLY WE ALREADY HAAVE A TANK, F-ING IDIOT". And at the end of the match I was salty as shit but I was the one that was shit when the whole match that guy had only 6-7 kills as star lord. Like all the matches are like this almost, I get cursed for having an idea how this game works.
dps players just want the game to assign them babysitters
More like I would like the ability to occasionally play DPS if I feel like it. I played the game for like 4 hours yesterday and only got to pick DPS one time, I had to fill for tank and support in every match. And I was excited because I was doing pretty good and we were winning, but then one of our tanks randomly swapped to Squirrel Girl and suddenly I had no space to get anything done and the enemy DPS were tearing apart our supports. It continued until I bit the bullet and swapped to tank, and we brought it back slightly but it was too late.
Oh, and let me tell you, I do not appreciate being the only tank or only support on a team. Which I often am. Especially tank, I could just go play OW2 for that where the role is balanced around being solo.
Role queue in Overwatch didn't make me stop playing tank and support, it just enabled me to play DPS when I'm in the mood to.
@@Zakon673u didnt have to fill u just the pssy who actually switched lol. When i just instalock and wait for ppl like u to switch and heal me
@@SureBub Takes like this are why I wish more games were FFA or 1v1. I know most of the people I'm switching for are selfish and don't care like you. However it's not very fun playing a character I want to play if we're just losing. I'd rather win and if someone has to be responsible then it's going to be me.
@ for sure lol i was the pssy that switched to supp day 1 but after i realized i can just instalock DPS and one way or another one of yall is gonna switch to supp its cool with me. Hence why they need role queue 🤓
@@SureBub that's cool. Just don't play ranked if you're not gonna be a team player.
The biggest issue is that Tanks in Rivals are very different to play from dps or support, whereas if you are a dps player then all the supports play the same way as a dps, but the play style or shooting style of tanks is very different in Rivals, I have a hard time playing tank in Rivals but I fill dps or support easily.
that’s called skill issue
what ive said is;
They have "preferred role" in the Factions system already, so why make players choose their preferred roles for when they queue competitive. Then, the matchmaker tries to put 2 of each role on each team, but dont lock them to the role.
This way it suggests and sets up roles for players, while allowing the agency to switch if/when needed.
then people will just lie to get faster queues
unless you mean the game tries to match the team with players on all roles but if it cant it finds a random game anyways to not increase queue times? also you would still be able to switch roles midgame?
thats what you mean right
How would that work if there’s no role lock? If you tell the system that you prefer support, what’s stopping that system from preventing 2 people from installing-locking support when you load into a match?
@@starsnoireartI genuinely dont understand your question but ima try to answer it, if the match maker attempts to make teams based on preference but doesn’t lock you into it you can still enjoy the freedom of swapping and making crazy comps. But the likelihood of getting a more balanced team comp is raised dramatically. Obviously without a complete lock there will never be a guarantee but I personally think forcing good comps shouldn’t be the answer for this game considering its current balance philosophy. Unlike overwatch, rivals seems to be leaning towards the mire casual audience not hyper competitive like overwatch. With its crazy op team ups and characters it’s not supposed to be a structured environment. However, if they want to make the ranked made more enjoyable and fair they should at least encourage players to flex iff dps by adding more support and tank characters with different play styles. Instead if forcing players to fit into a certain mold that higher level players consider to be ideal
@@merokrlswitching roles mid game is part of the game
The cynic in me thinks that people would simply abuse the system by selecting "sup pref" then instalocking dps, which would just kinda negate the whole system
1 healer 5 dps is so fun. I love getting run down while 0 of my teammates lack the brain power to adjust their hero picks.
I don't want role queue. I feel like it'd work better with a role mandate, not locking anyone into a role but mandating that one of each role must be filled to complete a team.
That's locking people into a role. If QP is any indication like 80-90% of people queue to DPS. What happens when all the DPS slots get instantly filled?
It's a very bad first note to start any match off with to have leavers or people fighting and begging to be DPS, and then being mad if they have to flex or RQ.
That'll lock a lot of people with bad/subpar connections out of roles.
I think min 1 is good but I would be more in favor of max 3 because if it's min 1 it would be difficult to swap off solo tank for example if needed unless your ally already went tank
but the whole point of role lock is for there to be a 1 person on each role, also if you limit it to 3 then conflicts is gonna start, i think just limiting it to min 1 is perfect because it doesnt limit too much
they need to make tanks more fun and engaging to play. Right now theres to much dmg in the game. DPS and supports do crazy dmg and tanks becomes miserable if you have to solo tank
Lowering damage across the board for dps and support would definitely help, though its more likely the reason there is so much damage is because its balanced around there being 2 tanks to soak up some hits. As restricting as role queue is, if you think about what problems are solved if the teams are 2/2/2 then it makes a lot of sense.
I agree but also it’s very conscious design choice because while all that is true potentially ( or it could be early meta), I think that it’s very much designed to make dps feel strong again something that apparently overwatch is lacking ( idk I don’t play much). It might take some getting used too
broooooooo i was solo tanking with thor into iron man, scarlett and cloak i wanted to die lmaoo im just looking at my hp being shredded and trying to fly around hoping for hp and shield health we lost lmaoo it suuuucckkkeeddd
@@sircracksman3517I'm not sure dropping damage this early is the move. I've read online that players are already finding success with GOATS and I fear dropping damage will just make GOATS the standard team comp. That would be miserable
Rivals mythbusters PLEASE. You’re the mythbuster king🙇🏻♂️
I have wanted for any hero shooters for having a minimum of 1 each role. I have wanted this in overwatch and really like to see this in rivals.
Can we not make this game go down the route of overwatch
There needs to be way more tanks and healers before we even think about having this conversation.
Yes this. The reason overwatch got this issue is because they introduced role lock by the time it died. They stop making content and it left those other roles in the dust.
No there doesn’t. OW had less heroes than this when RQ went live and the community still loved it. We need more tanks and healers for sure but not because of RQ.
@@starsnoireart In fairness, balance was still not good and they did not focus on who is cause the real problems. Still doe, people are more incline to play DPS because their the only class that has more options then the other classes.
what would more do really if you dont want to play tank you arent going to want to play tank no matter how many there are
@@mochoman312games2 There needs to be more FUN tanks to play and more FUN support to play. They all just feel like ass compared to dps.
possible yes to role lock, hard no to role queue. i remember hearing that the devs don't want the roles to feel rigid, and to have characters that blur the lines and for compositions to require different amounts of each role, so i guess we'll see how well they do with that. tbh, i actually haven't found in my experience that two tanks are better than one, but i also haven't dove into comp yet.
Agreed, No role queue but role lock is fine. I don't want Overwatch queue times ever again.
Can you explain the difference between role queue vs role lock? I honestly thought they were the same for the longest time
@@vietnamesejesus9378 Role queue would mean picking your role(s) before you start queueing, and the game matches you up with other players in order to guarantee a predefined team comp. (see: 2-2-2 in OW)
Role lock means that you queue up with everyone but roles can be "locked out" of being selected. eg. if they did a "limit 3" role lock, selecting 3 DPS characters would make selecting a 4th impossible. or if they did a "1 hero of each role" role lock, a team with 3 DPS 2 support would force the last player to select tank.
Role lock would mean the queue time problem wouldn't exist, and you would get the flexibility of being able to swap between roles mid-game. but it could also cause people to get mad and possibly leave/throw if they don't lock the role they wanted.
@@TheWayOfTheWott oohhhhh ok thx
Preferred queue > role lock.
In Role Queue, the ratio of heroes per role in the hero roster is very important to reduce queue times. A major lack of Tank & Support heroes compared to DPS heroes is a big reason DPS had the longest queue times by far in OW1 (there was 8 Tanks, 17 DPS, 7 Supports).
i really hope you stick with this game. You've been a blessing at teaching us Overwatch and many of us would definitely want to learn about Marvel heroes through your content. Cheers and thanks.
I agree. All I’m asking for is a Max 3, Min 1 type of role lock. Don’t necessarily need a full 2-2-2 role queue, just something to ease the burden of constantly being the only player to pick one of the other two roles.
I did it for 3 years of Overwatch. I ain’t doing it for more than a couple weeks in another hero shooter.
I like the team up additions for non role queue, I think it'd make things better.
No, this game just needs more (interesting) tank heroes. It's literally the same problem Overwatch had: Twice as many DPS characters than tanks
This isn't even an Overwatch or Marvel Rivals issue, nobody wants to play tank in any game and it always has the least amount of players due to needing a certain masochist mentality.
@@WindReiter10I find it more werid in rivals how people seem to like support more than tank because tank has far far more popular heroes
*sigh* no. players will trend towards dps no matter what. just add role lock it's a much better experience.
Role lock would remove the creativity of the game and make it feel so much more of an "esports" game.@@jonah-b7k
@@paulakroy2635 the support's are more fun than the tanks
1 tank can be fine in matches, but anytime it's 1 support vs 2 you auto lose the game. From my 12 hours of experience so far in the game.
12 hours? From a professional standpoint you don't even have a standard 40 hour limit yet. Let that bih breath
I mean you don’t auto lose but very much requires a hybrid character to work. Mainly Wolverine, ironfist seem to have an easier time
@@paulakroy2635 i second him, its an autolose in my 40 hours so far
Not really you just have to trust your support if you're the others or trust you're team to deal enough damage if you're the support. I won a couple of ranked games with me being the only one who was willing to support but if you play someone like dagger or luna and focus on healing mostly you can do it
from my 50 hours in the game thats not true, if you have 1 tank then that means you are gonna have more of other roles meaning more damage, 1 support isnt that big of an issue in my opinion
also there is so many support players, people instalock support on ranked
No, they just need more characters in the other roles that’d make more people want to play as them. The majority of characters right now are attackers, we just need more tanks and support that are appealing and that’s it. Otherwise in the future you could potentially lose out on team bonuses and also matches will take longer to queue if you can’t find a certain role, and it will also limit what you can pick at respawn if you’re locked into a role.
We need more vanguard and Strategists
Has nothing to do with the amount of characters in said role. The reality is no one wants to play tank or healer. No matter the game from overwatch to world of Warcraft. DPS is just known to be more “fun”. The problem is most people think DPS is the only way to play fast paced and deal the most damage and get the most kills so they can win MVP and feel like they did something. It’s just a mindset thing even though support and tanks deal more damage and are the reason most people win games.
The math you have is dramatically incorrect, the 3 roles on a team of 6 do not have 729 combinations, there are only 28. 6 players with each player having 3 options would be 3^6 if order mattered, but it doesn't. 2 Vanguards 2 Duelists 2 Tacts is the same as 2 Tacts 2 Vanguards 2 Duelists in game, but would be considered 2 different combinations according to your math.
The answer is actually 28, arrived to either by 5 minutes of writing down the combinations or (3+6-1)Choose(3-1)=8!/(6!2!)=28
I think a max 3 role limit would be really nice
As a tank main its very painful playing ranked with 1 tank 2 strategist and 3 dps…
It’s not too bad on Thor, as long as I have a strat like Jeff or mantis to actually keep the heals on me. What tank do you play that makes it difficult?
@@mushroomduck1345 Fellow tank main here. Venom is miserable with only 1 healer or 1.5 healers (one inexperienced healer). Ill dive in, fish for a kill, swing out to the back line again to refresh and if Im lucky one of the hopefully two healers will fill me back up. If not Im either stuck there spamming the heal command to get their attention, or running around like a headless chicken to try and find a weak healing drop or run all the way back to spawn.
Solo tanks are SQUISHY. The amount of damage coming out is designed for 2 tanks for sure. If more than 2-3 people are focusing a tank at any time they will die for sure without strong healing focus
Strongly disagree. I play tank a lot, and honestly, one good tank can make up for a lot. I play solo tank pretty decently especially at the start when i was climbing ranks, and I’ve never had an issue creating space and doing my job. The real issue isn’t the number of DPS but the skill of most DPS players. A lot of lower-elo DPS players in MR still don’t understand their role. They think their damage numbers matter, but it really doesnt. You can have 15k damage with only 8 kills and still be playing poorly if you’re not focusing healers. Damage without impact is meaningless but the loss has very little to do with being one tank. Look at games like valorant for example, you can easly win a game with 1 duelist instead of 2, same goes for overwatch even though it is more hero based
@winterwinter6558 I'm for open q but a big flaw is that let's say ur a good dps but ur team already has 2-3 dps so u have to flex but ur not a good tank or support so that already makes ur team wayyy weaker. If u play in the higher ranks that makes it even worse because people are going to really know how to play their role so a weak link is a big problem. I think for a healthy high ranks is to have at least soft role lock
It gets used to. Very much requires more team cordination
Lets not make this game an overwatch clone. I remember ow1 ranked matchmaking. Ive had my fair share of 5 dps and me the solo support game or 2 tanks, 3 dps, and me support. As a support main, i just accept it. Let the playerbase specific to marvel rivals lend their voice to the direction of the game. Cause while your points are fine for balancing, are they fair for fun? Will they generate revenue from the casual playbase who wants to auto lock spiderman and bully widow? I don't think 2 2 2 is even needed in this game because dps is very strong. Similar to launch ow1. Just give it time, let the meta define itself and then see if it's a problem
I don't see why there shouldn't be a role queue for ranked and nothing else. It's the competitive gamemode anyway.
If they want me to play tank, put in Rogue and make her a Vanguard. I will be a tank main!
I'd honestly be curious to see how effective role preference over role lock is. The system I'm suggesting is only for comp, or at the very least, not for the first X games in Quick Play so new players don't get punished.
- When you queue, you select a role you'd prefer to play (you won't be locked into the role)
- This is purely so the matchmaker can get at least 1 player of each role for a team
- So people don't try to game the system and prefer a role with the shortest queue time (with the intent to not play that role), if you play a role different than the one you queued for 2 consecutive games, the system will automatically prefer your role for the next game only
- The system will warn you one game ahead of time if you're about to be auto-preferred
- If a player is a repeatable offender, make the punishment more severe over time (such as timeouts from comp)
Idk, maybe my system sucks. I find it as a good middle ground for pro-lock and anti-lock, but I am unsure as to if it's the best solution...
What I don’t get is how a preferred role system is supposed to work when there is no role-queue and people are free to insta-lock any character they want when they load up the game?
Even if I tell the system that I prefer to play Strategist, without a built-in limitation like RQ what’s stopping 2 randoms from insta-locking supports as soon as the lobby loads?
Either you either create a system where people are fully / partially guaranteed to play the role they prefer, or you aren’t doing anything at all.
I always like protect the president comps where you just buff and peel for one single hyper-carry dps. 3 Strategist 2 Vanguard, 1 Duelist would probably work with a Hela.
I think a soft role limit would fit better. Don't make queue times worse by splitting up the players by role, have roles lock out when 3-4 players have already locked in said role. If people leave because they couldn't lock in Duelist fast enough, give them a time out from queueing, weed out the weak
Roll limit might be the best compromise Ive seen going around, max 3 of a role allows for more team comps while not gutting the teams ability to sustain itself through lack of a damage sponge or recovery.
or you could just add role queue
That would slowly hurt the player base and kill the game. Also, weeding out the weak as in paying customers? Try saying that to investors. I agree with Johnah.
TIME OUTS ARE NEVER A GOOD IDEA💯HORRIBLE GAME DESIGN TO GIVE SOMEBODY A 30 MINUTE BAN JUST BECAUSE U QUIT OUT OF SOMETHING THAT ISNT EVEN A RANKED MODE💔💔💔(SPEAKING FROM 2K EXPERIENCE)
@@ZNemerald No wonder Overwatch is doing amazing right after adding Role quece? I love to sit 20 mins for one match because of this stupid Role quece system, yeah this totally didn't slowly hurt the playerbase and kill the game, Kinda Ironic don't you think so.
There are only 28 ways to pick three nonnegative integers that sum to 6, not 729. So, there are only 28 (no minimum) role combinations.
Guys let me just say this 80% of the people who insta lock DPS are flat out trash who don’t know how team base game works. If you want to win and deal more damage than any DPS, choose mantis snow or Adam and Thor, venom and magneto. Not only will you dictate how much games you can possibly win but you’ll be MVP or have the most kills trust me tanks and healers are what win games. As of rn I’m top 8% in comp and my squad runs goats against DPS squads or one DPS because sustain plus damage is crazy on these characters. Let that seek in if people want to instalock DPS be the bigger person or just play DPS and make them lose lmaooo
What’s goats in rivals?
@ Goats is a line comprised of three tanks and three supports. The goal is to be unkillable and slowly advance the game. It’s kinda toxic, but in a game where supports actually deal tons of damage if you have people who can’t hit their shots or your running into lineups comprised of DPS you can steam roll any comp with goats.
The line up you’ll run mostly is Thor,Dr.Strange,venom/magneto
Supports mantis,Snow,Adam/cloak and dagger.
3 max is a nice idea but if they dont change how picking characters work. Someone who sucks on tank and support can be locked out of dps and forced to pick something they suck at. Compared to 1 minimum you can always play the role you actually want.
I hope they literally never patch the game. I wanna see what an esport would look like with just pure player driven tech exploration.
That's a statement for sure
remember GOATS?
They’ve already patched the game. Dr.Strange killing his own team to feed his ult is ridiculous and not an intended use. Things like that shouldn’t exist
@@andrewwilson9123 bro be like: 🤓 (but fr, who cares it almost never works unless your team is mentally afk lmfao)
@@SSJAlterI think you misunderstood me. I'm not talking about him killing the other team. There used to be a strategy where Dr. Strange would send his own team off the map, he would gain ult charge for all the kills and have 100% ult right as the match started. With no patching, things like this would run wild
There shouldn’t be role lock so soon but there should be a role limit, like a maximum of 3 per role
Edit: there could also be a system where you lock in a role before the game begins like in ow and then get placed in a game where there are at least 1 of each role and the enemy is mirrored.
So like one game it might be
132 vs 132
Then the next game it’s
213 vs 213
Etc.
I hope I explained it well enough 😅
I'm pretty open minded. As you said, the playerbase is still figuring out the game so I think it's a matter of 'see where it goes'
I'm a low-rank player so my opinion doesn't matter much competitively, but I like an idea I've been hearing of a role limit rather than a lock. i.e upper limit of 3 on any given role. While it still leaves the issue of 2 vanguard / 3 duelist, i think it mitigates the issue of too many duelists and choosing between strategist/vanguard is a more even choice because duelist isn't a factor
"I'll eat a sock if they don't need 1 of each role in the future"
GOATs?
I wish they can balance the game so that most team compositions are competitive.
Maybe add passive healing of some sort to alleviate the need of 2 healers.
One idea could be to add something similar to what overwatch has right now with kingmaker mode where if one role is solo they get some buffs.
That way you will probably get at least one tank and healer without forcing it since they know they will be buffed and a 1-1-4 could be competitive.
1, 1 , 4 was competive in ow1 right before role queue.
nah passive healing will be very bad
it will cause dps to be all over the place as they can just heal out of nowhere, theres gonna be no frontlines because everyone will be spread out also the value of supports will drop because alot of people will think that "we have passive healing so im not going support" this can also end up in less support players
also kingmaker wont work its just bad
btw im on your side, i want this game to be open queue but min 1 open queue isnt bad for ranked
If we end up in the scenario where the standard comp becomes 1 tank, 1 support and the rest DPS then in the name of balance the devs will need to either
A: Nerf damage across the board or
B: Hyper buff the tanks and supports to keep up with the damage coming in
If they dont implement role queue then the former is the most likely but that comes with the consequence of DPS characters taking longer to kill as well. Its a complicated issue and going either way has its pros and cons. I certainly dont think Id enjoy a future solo tanking as Venom and be deleted from full HP and optimal overshield use + healing because 2 DPS turned around and sneezed
Shouldnt*** I much rather be with teammates that are able to adapt and swap as the game goes on. Sometimes when i see my team needs help with a push ill go venom just for that one push and then ill go back to support. Its fun to be able to change as the game goes on and youre not as restricted
That will not happen often... Or at all but it was a nice ideal
@@jose-gregor4645 and you will also not be getting 5 dps every game
@@merokrl yes but the point is that anything unbalanced for the tank player will feel like hell.... that is problem with the tank role
@@jose-gregor4645 not true, tanking is fun in this game but dps is just "more" fun and you cant change that, dps will be always more fun ( im a tank player btw)
also tanking has massively improved, solo tanking against a 2 2 2 feels so much better than playing tank in ow2
@@merokrl then go grind ranked and solo tank....I am sorry but u cant tell me it will be fun cuz u will get obliterated and outsustained 9/10 fights in an even skilled math (it is not a game problem it is a role problem)
I personally think we should have a role que system as a mainly tank some support player. The games where I’m the only tank or only support are straight up unplayable. And don’t get me started on the games where I have 5 dps on my team and am forced to pick between heals or a frontline. Role Que isn’t what made overwatch bad can we stop pretending it is? Overwatches downfall was due to poor balance decisions and the switch to a 5v5 format. As someone who has time to play 2 or 3 games at best after work i would like those games to be balanced at the very least.
I see it as this:
There will always be games that you lose in any multiplayer game. So for me, I think open queue is better for this game primarily because of 1) how its balanced and 2) the identity of the game. \
Yes games where you want to play duelist and you load up to see 5 other players lock the role is frustrating, but I don't see how thats any different from someone locking a bad match up in OW or when someone is just straight up bad on your team.
Atleast with marvel rivals, I can switch to a role (despite not wanting to intiially play that role) and I could have a greater chance of winning compared to lets say playing DPS on OW and getting a bad tank. Yea I might lose the game with a 0/5/1 comp, but atleast I know there is still power in my hands to change the outcome of the game.
Exactly. Since Marvel Rivals has less difference between the roles than Overwatch, it allows for more skill expression rather than you win or lose because of a passive that someone has (e.g. tanks in OW2 having DR on headshots, less ult charge gained from shooting them, armor, etc.). Also, it is a good thing that there is no static passive health regeneration.
Switched to Tank and there's no supports. ye bud you're going have a bad time.
yes but not everyone willing to do exactly that
let say 5 dps, you could only choose a healer or a tank
@ if you’re not willing to do that and you say you want to win the game, and still queue dps with 5 other players, you deserve to lose.
I severely hope the devs see this. Your ideas of improving the game are spot on. As a tank main, sometimes it just feels pointless like we solely rely on support characters so there should definitely be characters from say Spider-Man’s world that they could pull from and make them a healer and have team up abilities.
Frankly minimum 1 is the best idea purely because of teammups. Teammups are the elephant in the room when it comes to getting players to run comps. Another thing we are missing is yes more A-List tanks and supports to get more players interested cause as of now people are playing for that fantasy of being that hero.
I would agree specifically for supports / strategists. Loki has a pretty big draw but he also is one of the least beginner friendly character in the game due to his ult. Rocket Raccoon is a fairly well loved character but certainly not an A-Lister, and everyone agrees that it's weird for him to be a strategist anyway.
I don't think this is the problem for tanks tho? I mean Magneto and Captain America certainly are A-List. Thor and Dr Strange are also super popular Avengers.
But if your favorite character is Cap or Magneto, and you are playing that character with 4-5 dps behind you, then you don't get to enjoy it. Instead you get to experience your favorite character getting the living shit kicked out of them with almost nothing you can do to stop it.
I don’t know if it was just me starting with Smite but I prefer tanking, it’s actually just more fun for me than DPS
Role Queue helps causals more than they think. In Overwatch, when you get players that one trick. the majority of the time it is because they are good at that character and that characters mechanics speaks to them. OW's IP is not dictating character choices.
THAT IS NOT WHAT IS GONNA HAPPEN IN MARVEL RIVALS.
You will 100% get casuals who queue up as spider-man. Simply because that is fucking spiderman. It does not matter how good they are. They will queue up as wolverine. It doesnt matter how good the character is. It doesnt matter how good the player is. Fuck team synergy. I am playing goddamn spiderman! People will one-trick for reasons completely unrelated to the game.
And you cant even blame them. For super marvel fans, why wouldnt they play their stan characters? OW does not have this issue.
nah it applies for overwatch aswell, you dont realize how many people just 1 trick rein or genji because they watched one cinematic about them
also you would be suprised how many casual people get really angry about not being able to find a game for 10+ minutes, most casual players have jobs meaning they cannot afford to waste their time too much, the ranked tryhards in these type of games are mostly streamers, esports players, or teens who are still at school.
Go play ow is not same game
Role Queue doesn't work so well when the team up feature exists and there are some team ups that require 2 of a single role selecting specific characters. There's also the divide per role of someone who mains melee vs someone who mains ranged characters. I've had games in gold as tank for attack Yggdrasil with a 1-3-2, but I had to switch to Punisher to turret in spawn to open space for the first push. In this case to capture first point and go on to win the game, a 0-4-2 was the ideal comp.
Kids, return this guy to OW2
Nah
You have to find a way to stop players from all picking dps. limit 3 wont work as it becomes a role race to dps, making slower dps throw game on tank and heal. Role has to be a thing even if you split the mode from open one one side and role on the other. That way player that dont want to wait on que and play QP and risk having bad teams or go role que and maybe wait a little bit and have better games.
eeerrrmmm actusually when we ignore repetition the number of teamcomps is actually 28. Using a method that's often called "stars and bars" we arrange the 6 team comp slots as stars and roles as bars as e.g. "**|**|**" means 2-2-2 teamcomp. By moving the bars around we seperate the 6 team members into 3 different roles. In order to solve the problem, we just need to reorder the stars and bars by choosing the spots for the 3-1 bars out of the 6+3−1 total spots, Thus there are (6+3-1)C(3-1) = 8C2 = 28 team comps
10 is right though!
Agreed, especially on the eventually and Competitive only.
So far I've only had 1 match (today in fact) where we lost because nobody wanted to go healer. I'm usually the person to suck it up and go tank or healer depending on what is needed cause I was too slow and we already have 3-4 DPS but this time it was a funny moment where I picked my DPS early and the team filled out as 3 tanks and 3 DPS. We lost hard, like not even a contest just a stomp and yet nobody changed to healer or even mentioned it in chat. I didn't change cause I was just fascinated and determined that this time I shouldn't have to be the one to cave. But nobody did, they all seemingly either didn't notice, care or expected somebody would eventually switch. It was weird.
Role limit would be 1000% better. Because at the end of the day role queue doesnt fix the actual problem we’re just gonna be stuck with longer queue times bc people will only queue for duelist. It should be that you get in a lobby and can only have three of each role MAX. That will force people to be comfortable with vanguard and strategist characters as back ups just in case they dont get duelist.
Also no role queue for qp, qp should remain a godless, lawless wasteland
don't no about 1000% better. BUT I think instead of going the minimum of 1 role they should go a maximum of 4(not 3)... I think 3 is too much.
Long que times are only for the googoo gaga dps players. Learn a different role and you wont have a que time
@@lawfulgoodnun1646 That's just punishing players for wanting to play a character or style they like.
@@lawfulgoodnun1646 Or…you could avoid the dps players (the largest portion of the player base) complaining about long queues by just implementing role limit. It forces them to learn a new role like you said but keeps queues low.
MR *needs* role queue, right now ranked is barely playable. If we get it for season 1 that'd be ideal.
*Nobody opens the game and queues up to play a role they don't like.* Some people are totally ok with flexing, most aren't.
I think the game should stray away from the OW path and do its own thing. Clearly it's a lot of fun for a lot of people who missed the unhinged era of OW, and the two don't need to necessarily compete. If I personally lose the option, in comp, to swap off a role to enable a team ability or bolster an era we're lacking, then I'm no longer interesting in the game. Then it's just a race for balance vs. the game that's already been around for 8.5 years. Why do that.
the 6v6 hero shooter with the same gamemodes and classes and game systems literally cannot stray far away from overwatch. it is so heavily inspired that it is genuinely not possible.
You won't lose anything, they wouldn't add role queue without leaving open queue there as well
@@jonah-b7kexactly these comments are so dumb
@@jonah-b7kJust because something is inspired by something doesn't mean they have to copy it completely. Also Overwatch copied it's game modes from TF2. Since you want to talk about copying.
1 of each as a limit is ok but yall forgot about the human factors here. Not everybody can play a role solo while helping their team
Con: overwatch
That’s enough argument
Bruh, you should do a video about the disconnecting bug. Devs are doing radio silence on this 😢
Why did they go for a 3 roles game set-up?
When OW launched, we had tanks/healers/offensive dps and defensive dps.
I hope they stay away from copying OW and remain their own game.
1. The defense/offense roles were useless and only gave people another reason to flame their teammates, a la "you're playing mei on attack; why are you throwing?"
2. Teams consisting of tanks, healers, and dps predates overwatch
Maybe if they had a que for both would solve this problem. You did a great job articulating your point. Nice work.
Overall, I disagree with the concept of "role queue" because I think it's a lazy approach to meta balancing. A lot of people compare this game to Overwatch (which is fair), but they forget why role queue was added in the first place - certain metas became too strong, and most of them revolved around tanks. One of Overwatch’s biggest issues was that you didn’t really need DPS since tanks could double as DPS with way more health. Add 1-3 healers to that, and you had an unbreakable comp.
Most Overwatch players agree the GOATS meta was awful, but I don’t see that happening here, and I’ll explain why.
First, I’ve noticed tanks in this game aren’t as strong as Overwatch tanks. They feel more balanced and are clearly designed to create space instead of dishing out massive damage. In Overwatch, tanks would often have the highest damage in the game. As a tank main, I’d regularly get gold or silver in damage. In this game, however, DPS actually feel like DPS, which makes a huge difference.
Second, I think the abundance of dive-focused agents will prevent the healer problem that plagued Overwatch. In OW, certain healers became nearly impossible to kill due to tank guarding. In MR, with the addition of so many more dive agents compared to OW, like characters such as "Spiderman" and "Iron Fist," it’s much easier to take down supports and get out fast. The best way for these dive agents to be countered is by fast-acting DPS, something tanks simply can’t do as well in Marvel Rivals compared to Overwatch.
That said, we’re definitely going to see strong metas - we already are - but I just don’t think role queue is the solution. It feels like a lazy cop-out. One of the best parts of Overwatch was the creativity of team comps and plays. Marvel Rivals is already nudging us toward specific metas and comps with the synergy of team-up abilities. Some of these are super strong (like the Hela, Thor, Loki combo) and will definitely shape the way we play. Role queue would kill the creativity that makes team-building so fun, which is a core part of hero shooters (whether people realize it or not).
Now, I’m not saying there shouldn’t be any control over wild metas, because if things get too out of hand, it can ruin the game. I’d be okay with a system that limits the number of tanks or healers per team, but I don’t think it should be tied to the queue. For example, maybe you can’t have more than 3 tanks at once, or maybe certain characters like Doctor Strange count as “extra strong” and limit how many other tanks you can have with him. This is just a rough idea, but it would allow for flexibility and creativity while still keeping things balanced.
I also think it’s important to add more vanguards and strategists like you said but to also diversify them. For example, a strategist doesn’t have to be a healer - they could help the team in other ways with utility or CC. This would naturally delay any kind of meta-lock like we saw in Overwatch.
I also wanted to comment on a point you made about players "ego locking" roles or being forced to play roles they aren't good at and now it throws games. I think that argument is weak and a lot of this is only really seen in low elos. Most gamers understand the 20-20-60 rule (20% of games you’re guaranteed to win, 20% you’re guaranteed to lose, and 60% are winnable if you play well). No matter what game you’re playing - Valorant, Overwatch, Marvel Rivals, League of Legends - you will have bad teammates sometimes. It’s inevitable. What separates good players from the rest is adaptability. If you want to rank up, you can’t just hard lock one role (shit a GM tank that cant hit shots or player other aspects of the game like properly heal, to me is a bad player no matter what the ranks say). The best way to improve is to have a main role (and 2-3 characters you’re really good at within that role) but also have at least one pick in every other role so you can flex when needed. Role queue actually removes that element of skill. It’s a lot less impressive to see a GM support player than a GM DPS player for example.
Long story short, there are better ways to balance metas than to just throw in a role queue. It’s lazy, it kills creativity, and it comes with its own set of problems. Let’s not forget that role queue was one of the main reasons Overwatch died. It caused long queue times and completely killed the creativity that made the game so fun. Yes, some things in this game will need balance changes and maybe even reworks, but role queue isn’t the answer.
Great video but no. Rivals should not have role queue or role lock, although a role limit would be fine. (Max # of a role)
What I’m afraid about is overwatch players complaining and slowly turning this game into overwatch
The game is overwatch. 6v6 hero shooter. payload. ultimates. it is literally an overwatch-like, and that's fine, but it was very obviously the main inspiration for this game. it is why so many overwatch players are playing it.
@@jonah-b7k he means by the differences not in the general style of the game meaning he doesnt want role queue or 5v5 added to marvel rivals,
he wants the game to stay as a team shooter, at this point in ow2 the game is so individual based than ow1 that its turning into a team deathmatch rather than a team game at this point
The 3^6=729 possible compositions isn't correct, it's a gross overestimate. What is assumed is the order of the roles matters (player 1 chooses healer and player 3 chooses dps being different from the vice-versa). The correct number is (7 choose 2) = 21, which is much closer to the correctly calculated 10 possibilites for the case in which every role must have a representative.
Bro what? Where did you get 7 and 2 from?
It is inherently a competitive game. however people really only ever use the character they like. So you could be playing in competitive and be the only Tank with one healer and 4 dps. this is a terrible team comp. Not to mention role que could help in other ways. 5v5 shouldn't have role que but a 6v6 should. %v5 shouldn't cause you can never have balance there, instead of 2 of each role one would end up being only one of that type. Meanwhile 6v6 allows for 2 of each role which is a balanced team comp.
Edit: I love playing the tank tbh especially doctor strange. He has one of the most powerful self combos in the game. He has the best Ult combos in the game...portal. He can portal a scarlet witch bomb onto the enemy.
What if I want to switch roles mid match
@dillydraws Why? Cause a what if with no substance isn't a good argument.
@@The_Jragon it is when some people want do that including me. Maybe I tried out tank and I'm not having fun so I want to swap to support. If I'm role queued as a tank, I would have to leave the game to do that.
@@The_JragonThere's nothing wrong with his question. And you didn't even bother to answer it.
@@dillydraws Then why role as tank in the first place? If you do not like the tank role in general, why role into it?
Biggest problem is that this early into the games life people dont care about winning they care about being their favorite character lol, as the meta develops and more characters of each role are release the problem will solve itself
no need to choke the games freedom of choice before its an actual issue
it'll stay exactly like that. The people that are now saying "fuck you, I'll do what I want even if it means the other 5 of you will have a miserable game" will continue to do so
I think that for competitive play, yes it needs a role queue. But for QP and casual gamemodes no. This game is a massive worldwide IP that everyone of all ages loves. Thus it has a very diverse group of players of all ages from across the world. Appealing to specifically the competitive players ends up killing the fun for the casual players like what happened for Overwatch when QP role queues were added and the infamous 30 minute queue times happened.
Nah, max 3, min 1, role lock would be terrible for how chaotic the game is
People really are forgetting how miserable it felt checking profiles and noticing you had 4 mercy mains on the same team… I agree with the role queue.
this is why MARVEL RIVALS SHOULD NEVERRRRRRRRRRRR EVERRRRRRRRRRRRR
LISTEN TO X OVERWATCH PLAYERS.
THEY FKED UP OVERWATCH BECAUSE OF THEIR BIITCHING AND STUPID IDEAS
RIVALS SHOULD ONLY LISTEN TO CS GO PLAYERS.
NO FKINGG ROLE LOCK. NO PLAYER DIVIDED.
marvel rivals devs. neverrr everrr listen to those failed overwatch players NEVERRR
or your game will go down just like overwatch
Nah man, go chill out.
Yea no…. Play overwatch if you want role lock.
This game is ruined for me by having no role lock. It reminds me why I quit OW1 I have been the “better” man my entire gaming career. Always taking the roles the team never wanted so we could actually have a good game. Probably why I’m a support main now.
But I was forced to play support almost every game in OW1. I’ve finally given in to the dark side and said fuck it with Marvels Rivals. I play whatever I want always and if no one will switch I guess the game ends quickly at least.
I wish they’d lock roles but do a role preferred system like League. You select which roles you’d like in order from most to least and the matchmaker tries to find you a game while balancing queue time vs roles needed. If you end up on your least favorite role you’re guaranteed your favorite for the next match. It’s a nice mix of both. Keep your ranks for roles separate.
Ow creators are allergic to fun, if you want role queue go play the other game
karq, I want to clarify something about your thoughts on this. When talking cons of role lock, you mention queue times. This would only be a problem if it were queue locked like overwatch, which is what I first thought you implied. But then you mentioned a min 1 role lock, which cannot be implemented as a queue lock; everyone would still queue in to a game without choosing a role. A queue lock-less role lock would not make queue times any worse, but would still keep that pressure to be the one who flexes, I dont think that fixes any issues really with the current state.
Time to see how many people commented before actually watching the video.
The minimum 1 idea is gold and I pray they add this
No. I want to be Hawkeye every single match and will cry a river if I am restricted.
you can still play hawkeye if there's role lock.
Also ur pregnant for playing that character
@@KittiesRCoolmost out of pocket insult I’ve ever witnessed in a Karq video comment section 😭
@@KittiesRCool and what character do you play?
I think light role q with preference category like people answer they prefer vanguard but have a willingness to play some support or dps and vise versa then role q just makes sure that atleast one person of each preference is on a team that way it's still open to switch ups where they need a specific hero on dps or support and the best person at the hero icon tank they can swap roles
No. Overwatch is dumb because of role lock. If u want to win u play the role. I dont want your preeching about stable this and that. This way its more fun and actually 3 dps 1 vanguard seems to be a bigger meta.
I do want role lock! I don’t mind playing tank or heals but my god I’m not gonna do it for bronze players so they can run up and whiff every shot when I could just swap hela and kill everything my self. When we have good dps though I enjoy the team aspect of everything, but idk why they didn’t implement unranked matches to separate the people who can aim from those who can’t.
I respect your points but I do not agree. your pro/cons list is made based on the assumption that 2-2-2 is statically better than 6 duelist or any other comp win rate wise. that is just a balancing problem and MR does not have to follow OW.
ok run 6 duels in comp i want to see it please
Did you not watch the part where he says minimum 1? Explicitly the opposite of saying he wants 2-2-2?
I think they should keep it mostly as is
what they can do is have players pick a preferred role: If you mainly play tank, you can choose tank as your preferred role, but still be able to pick any character. Now obviously, people will lie for faster queue times, so simply make it that you can only choose a preferred role if it is more than 50% of your played games.
No. It really really shouldn’t have role lock. Boooooo!
I don’t know If it’s somehow possible, But I suggest every Player can choose whether they want to play Competive in a role Lock Environment or not.
Players choosing the Role Lock get on a Team with the people who chose in role Lock as Well. While the others who opted out of Role Lock get matched together as well. Now matchmaking can be Locked Team vs. Locked Team, Not Locked vs. Locked or Not Locked vs. Not Locked.
Everybody can choose what they would rather want and accept the different Q times.
I think Marvel Rivals is waiting to see if they can get away with the players solving the problem for them. Valorant has made it so that people will pick the smokes role out of the desire to win most of the time, and maybe that will be the case here as well, as people are still getting used to the novelty of the game and all the heroes. Once that’s done I think people will be more interested in winning. But then again valorant not allowing switching in the middle of the match may be what pressured people to picking smokes because it’d essentially be unwinable.
so u answered ur own question 💀💀 they gonna play whatever
I feel like they need to make team-ups more impactful and synergizes with the three roles well and not just something that only the DPS and some tanks can enjoy, so that you're encouraged to form a good team comp.
I agree with the team up part and do think that it will solve/mitigate the problem to a dgree. I also do think that not having a tank in a competitive format is kinda bad could be something that can be interesting, IMO support is the most important role there is as long as a team comp has supports I think it's a viable team comp but not in a similar skill bracket cause how is a DPS/support supposed to do their work if 2 snipers are staring right at them with meaty shields in front to protect them, for context I was a ramattra enjoyer back in my ow2 days but here no tank has picked my interest, I was looking forward to playing as thor but turns out he is underwhelming as a solo tank, secondly most of my comp matches I have to switch to tank, I personally find the dps catagory in rivals way more fun and mechanically less challenging(for example: iron fist), that's why didn't play dps in overwatch cause I find it way more mechanical challenging but I never got the chance to play it no one and I mean NO ONE decides to play tank off the bat not even SUPPORTS everyone is DPS. So yes while while it is less fun this way I think If both team doesn't have a tank then it's a completely different story and an interesting at that which I would love to see in a pro match.
No role queue means you can have both all-rounder and situational picks and combine them for a lot of different strategies. Maybe there should be a requirement for at least one character of each role and/or a limit to the picks in competitive, but I like this freedom. After all, this is what forced certain picks in OW to have to be changed quite significantly, or be in need for that, when it turned from a 6v6 to a 5v5.
What if instead of enforcing 2-2-2 or Min 1 for each, they just matched the roles of the teams? Both teams may have 1 tank and 5 dps, but it would technically be fair. In matches without heals, you would have to use cover. Some heroes would be very weak or strong in different situations. With team-ups in the game, players are already incentivized to play a variety of heroes rather than main a single hero, and this would also reward flexibility. Would also minimize queue times. Of course, the downside is that if a role is very underrepresented, you may rarely see tanks or healers.
The interesting thing to see will be the way the dev will balance the game/ new hero kits, etc. The funniest part of playing overwatch for me has been getting mechanically/ strategically better or the outplay ability. I feel that brings a lot of fun to the game, and promotes dedicating time and effort to learning different hero kits/ strats. It become demoralizing when you loose to something perceived as/ actually unfair or less skill intensive. Games looks fun, definitely be playing a lot more. Appreciate you starting up this channel!
My thoughts is that role queue/limits should exist, but only for placement matches and lower ranks.
Game is fun as-is...for now. Definitely once metas and character knowledge starts to solidify, the thing that low rank players are gonna remember the most is how inconsistent match quality is, with half their games having balanced comps and the other half being straight throwing in the spawn room with hero selection. Classic Overwatch was unplayable in metal ranks prior to role queue because all the bad people who fought over who got to play the cool sniper or the cool ninja fell down to those ranks and while a lot of people got mad and quit after role queue, those were the players OW really needed to go elsewhere anyway, and I can't imagine how many players left OW on account of poor quality matches up until that point.
On that note, also glad to not see "GIVE ME 'X' OR I THROW" in spawn like what was so prevalent in early OW but the flipside is definitely everybody wants to play their favorite comic book hero even if that hero is functionally useless and MMR hopefully sends those players down to a rank where they can enjoy their awful melee hero and neither be constantly frustrated due to lack of performance nor continue to frustrate teammates because they're not swapping off whatever useless hero makes them think of happier times while essentially functioning as an empty player slot. NetEase has a lot to learn, but the catch this time is there's already a how-to guide readily available that they're well aware of but choosing to not look at, at least that we're aware of.
I will say this though: you mentioned that people remember the high highs of winning with an inefficient comp, but I decided to be that guy who was solo tanking with 3 duelists to just throw up my hands and go 4th duelist. It was the pick. It won the game. Tables turned, victory secured, History Captured...and then I thought it was weird that I couldn't remember a single instance in all my years of Overwatch where that happened, or if it happened, that I couldn't recall it at all. All I remember was how bad it was all the time, with the good games being good, the bad games being bad, and the games in the middle all generally also being bad because you had to babysit grown adults and massage their egos so they'd play, or you'd have a good thing going and then somebody would get mad and throw. The ratio of bad to good was so high that the good was drowned out, and drowned out so notably that role queue making the ratio change for the better was far more visible than any good game I might've had prior. Maybe not everybody else's experience, but worth thinking about.
I thought about it long and hard and my suggestion is if you're lacking of one of these rolls you get a buff of certain kind example like you have the healing buff without supports or if you have no DPS you have more damage and if you have no tanks you have more HP something like that.
Because I do not want the same solution I want more variety and more creativity.
For competitive/ranked mode, yeah why not?
For "normal" mode, it's a no from me. I just want to have some fun, I don't care about coordinating tactics with random players, I don't care whether I win or lose the match. Just let me play the characters I want
In my experience in the Asia servers, I am getting matched in rooms where we get fewer DPS mains, and it's a huge problem sometimes. I don't main a role as I can flex, but that just means I'm not the best at any role. It's hard to excel as my comfort pick, Namor, when my other DPS team mate is Scarlet Witch, then we get like, Venom, Luna, Jeff, and Adam Warlock to fill the team out.
I suppose the positive is that there's less DPS mains, but without DPS mains, we can't contest anything lmao.
Solid points. I really agree that it needs some form of role limits, but not right now. come back to i in about 6 months. Everybody is still learning.
Literally I feel all role queue would add is just miserable waiting times for specific classes, which breaks up one of the biggest strengths imo of its very quick gameplay loop. Queueing up for a next match literally just takes a second, but role queues could massively make it more tedious to get into a game just because you want to play punisher. It's a big sore point that made me not like overwatch 2.
I would also be fine if they added a main role at an off-roll if they were to do roll queue I just don't want marvel rivals to have to compromise on the open queue so that way it can just be like overwatch was. Ex you can flex main role dps off role tank
role limit at best but the issue would come in for needing this in theory when we get that one new hero that suddenly shifts a meta into removing a need for X role and causing a major balance issue overall. that is the one thing I can see that would want the role lock to exist.