That's part of the glitch of the Discovery misinterpretation of Klingons. Klingons got the cloaking technology from the Romulans so they can have a better advantage against their common enemy of the Federation. No doubt that Romulan misinformation twisted Klingon perceptions of their own honor code, over and over, on top of defeat at the weak hands of the Federation made them "adjust" their sense of honor to accept the Romulan gift of cloaking technology. Discovery-era Klingons would be above such tactics at that point... pre-TOS Klingons.
@@jasonskeans3327 The exact way the Romulans did it, yes, but when the cloaking device was used by Klingons and who it came from, that can be traced in canon. Discovery writers are the ones trying to rewrite Klingons entirely, not the fans.
I remember a Voyager episode where Janeway was near death and some creepy creature posing as her father tried to get her give up and go into the afterlife but was really trying to eat her soul or something. I don't consider myself a bad person but I don't look forward to meeting afterlife creatures.
Joke's on him, Janeway has no soul. But can you imagine Janeway in Gre'thor? Janeway: *marches up to Molor* Hey, douchebag, you're sitting in my chair.
This episode sounds familiar, and i only remember watching parts of it, so i can't remember what the name of it was, or which season it was in, i'm pretty sure it was before season 5 though.
The one thing I really remember from B'lanas "visit" was Tuvok praising the Bathleth and then flourishes it. "An elegant weapon, for a more civilized time" Ahurm.. the... Bathleth that is..
The weird thing is that Be'lanna's mother was never actually really dead. At the end of the episode she said something about seeing her when she got home.
I might be misremembering here, but wasn't there a later episode where another Klingon says that the only way for a Klingon to remain with the honored dead was to be remembered by the living through continuing, traditions and rituals? If so then could, one be expelled from Sto'Vo'Kor after all who knew them died? Or if their family was entirely wiped out in a mass explosion, or plague, or something? And what happens in the case of a last of the Mohican type situation? < Side note; I have to wonder how many generations could possibly remember* everyone who came before? *within ritual procedure
I remember worf saying that they killed their gods.... it's very Klingon. I wonder if the story of the first klingon is more a mythical take on the creation of the modern klingon personality of combat & honor?. 🖖
Will you cover the conflicting death rituals of the Klingons? One is the "look at the eyes, scream to sky, dispose of the body" And the other is "guard corpse from predators"
i've generally presumed that "guard corpse" one is older, and perhaps only stays around as a way to ensure that there is a corpse to gather round and scream over, preventing having an enemy despoil the body before the screaming rite can be performed. (remember, the screaming rite is supposed to be a warning that an honorable warrior is entering the afterlife. it makes sense that until said rite is done, klingons would perceive the body and soul would remain linked, and dishonor done to the corpse would reflect on the soul's destination.. and only after the rite is performed that the body becomes nothing but a shell.)
My take is that Klingons aren't particular about how the body is disposed of so long as it is done with respect. Allowing the body to be torn apart by predators or spoiled by enemies would not be respectful.
Now i want to see you do a full klingon playthrough of STO, since we'll be visiting Gre'thor. I really liked that episode in Voyager, as it explained a lot about Klingon religion, something we didn't get in DS9 or TNG, well, not to that extent. Though one must wonder, if Belana's mother got sent to Gre'thor for Belana's refusal to accept her heritage, what happened to Alexander's mother? Or for that matter, what will happen to Worf? Since, that voyager episode established that, no matter how good or honorable your life (and death) was, if your kid sucked at being a Klingon, then you were likely screwed as well.
I can tell you this. Her mother told her she would see her again when she got home or to StoVollKor so she didn't actually die in 2376 but had died by 2378
There is a descent chance that the STO mythology of Gre'thor gets expanded in some time. I mainly suspect that due to the choice of voice actor that Molor and J'mpok are linked.
Interestingly to me, the Klingon afterlife is more similar to, if less diverse than, the Greek one, and the honor system is more of a greek (esp. Spartin)/viking hybrid.
If it was up to me when imagining Gre'thor, the ship of the dead would be a palatial yacht where the dishonorable Klingon is served hand and food by the most obnoxiously obsequious servants imaginable. No opportunity for honor. No opportunity to ever experience a challenge again. A life devoid of conflict where their every need is attended to. For Klingons who believe in duty and honor and fail to live up to it, it would be a horrible fate.
But not for Klingons who don't really believe in traditional values and therefore didn't live up to them. I guess they could be perfectly fine with their eternal fate.
Alternatively, when the gods were slain there were none left to ferry the souls of the dishonored dead to Grethor and someone needed to take charge of the Barge lest Sto-vo-kor be overrun by the dishonored. Over time the notion of the cursed existence could have superseded that of the vital role. This would be predicated on the idea that both Grethor and Sto-vo-kor existed prior to the deaths of the Klingon's gods.
I remember the TOS episode Day of the Dove, where Kirk says to Kang "Go to the devil" (Because you can't say hell on 60's television. At least not a lot) To which Kang says its a silly human superstition the Klingons don't have. I mean, that's kind of right, sure Grethor looks like hell on the surface even if there's a bit more to it than that. Continuity preserved? Although given how Klingons were depicted in the original series, that means a lot of them ended up in Grethor given their less then honorable ways back then.
i don't know why but for a moment there I had a flashing thought of what a channel like this would do with the rather bonkers Nature of Gi Joe Lore. Maybe Kaheless reborn just reminded me of Serpentor there for a moment.
I love Klingons. This reminded me of the Voyager episode I forgot about. I know there was a Black Fleet of pirates irl, but the Trek version was pretty cool. I have an audiobook on cd that mentions it. I bought it in the late 90s. I think there were some books that mentioned it too, and I do love that bit of world lore, that an offshoot of Klingon mythology that could have easily started with mythology about where drowned sailors went when they died, and it just carried over to space. In STar Trek Online, I made a house that was primarily a space fairing house that had, within the house, gave little lip service to Sto'Vo'Kor but expected for those who died honorably to go to the Black Fleet. I'd made up some head canon about the Black Fleet as well, but I no longer remember what is head canon and what was mentioned in any books or episodes etc. I just think the idea sounds much more mysterious and haunting that alien Valhalla (says the guy with the Tiwaz rune icon) but still in the spirit of Klingins.
In the original Star Trek Apollo showed up, but like the other Olympian Gods, revealed to be an alien. Was it ever established if these aliens took on the appearance of the Greek Gods, or if they based the Gods & stories on the aliens?
would you be able to do a video on the day to day life or a star ship captain, first officer, and chief of security. Like what a typical day for them would be like
There were multiple species of sentient beings on the Klingon Homeworld. One was the Fek'Lar. They were vicious and powerful in battle so strong it took several strong Klingons to take just one and they were legion, breeding as fast as the Klingons. But the Klingons we know today were much [less] flexible in their "honor" and [these ancient Klingons] were not above developing better weapons and tactics and strategies to fight a truly superior foe. The Klingons defeated the Fek'Lar pushing them back further and further until the Fek'Lar were rendered extinct. Songs are sung of the Fek'Lar to remind the Klingons to respect powerful foes or the Fek'Lar will not respect you.
@@williamlloyd3769 They wouldn't based on their prohibition against Genetic Engineering aside from medical purposes. Creating a species for the sole purpose of fighting another would come under, biological weapons and directly against Federation law.
Now curious. I heard it said the Feklhiri have their own warships in STO that can attack you in game. If that is truly an extradimensional abode, then are those Klingons trapped there really the souls of the dishonored..or is there something else going on there?
They always had ships to attack the Klingons in missions, and I believe with the DISCO stuff that was added Feds, Roms, and Jem'Hadar can now fight their ships too. As a player, you can also helm a selection of Fek'hiri ships.
I'll be honest, I consider the Q Gods. Whatever their path to becoming what they are was, they can now manipulate time, energy, matter, and space however they see fit. They live forever and are esstinally unkillable. Meets the common definition of a God(s) to me.
The Klingon Creation myth is told properly in the Deep Space Nine episode “You are Cordially Invited” it’s the first time Star Trek does a Klingon Wedding
What happens to those who leap overboard into the water? Do they suffer an eternity of being feasted upon, or get devoured into nothingness? If it's devoured into nothingness, that'd be a preferable fate to eternal torment.
Some mythology remarks: - Stovokor sounds like Vahalla. Given that every Klingon except the TOS era ones had a certain "Viking Raider" vibe, that seems fitting. - Grethor meanwhile has elements of Hellheim (dishonored dead). It is not a particulary cold place, however Even the number of syllabies (Val-hal-la/So-vo-kor; Hel-heim/Gre'thor) matches. - The "River of the dead" is a pretty common concept and by far not limited to the Styx: Gjöll, Hubur, the Sanzu and Vaitarna Rivers Even Ra travels on a boat through the underworld, while spending the whole night dead - it is possible that there needs to be someone to deal with the dead, so Kotar took up the role after killing the gods. "Someone has to do it and I caused the issue after all." Nothing binding him but his honor? Sounds pretty Klingon to me :) - that there is the Symbol of the Klingon empire - normal or inverted - when it is based on Kahles sword is not a contradiction. Remember that this hell is personalized: Nymphs that know the voices of your loved ones (or at least can create illusions you mistake for said voices). Personalized torture. That sort of thing. So it is possible the symbol only appears (or rather is seen by visitors) because people kinda...expect it to the be there. - In STO, the Fek'iri invasion: Originally it was strongly indicated that those were fake Fek'iri created by the Iconians, based on the Klingons myths. - Also in STO, the whole Dominion/Hurq Storyline indicates that theFek'iri and Hur'q have a much more mundane origin
I hope you do other alien mythologies that are known instead of just Klingon mythology. I like that you started with the Klingons but it would be cool if you did not just the Klingons but Bajorans, Asari, Ferangi, and hell why not the obscure like the Nietzscheans. Idk food for thought?
I'm curious how Deep Space 9 would have done this. I remember reading that one of the episode DS9 didnt get to do by bgg its end was have Worf meet his father, Mogh, in Grathor or Stovakor and i THINK on a planet. It may be in a trivia section of Memory Alpha but it would have lent weight to the extraterrestrial vs higher plane discussion.
It could also be that the appearance of the afterlife is subjective to the imagination and perspective of the individual going there, so everything will look _as horrible as immaginable_ (or as awesome as possible in the other place) to each individual, while the broad strokes remain the same (the door is here, the temple there, etc.).
I know they've done good things with the "honorable" post STIII version of the Klingons, but I preferred it when Romulans were the ones obsessed with duty and honor and the Klingons were brutal authoritarians. It made both of them more interesting IMO.
I always felt that it showed that "Honour" is variable, that it's subjective, and that it needs to be acknowledged when dealing with different cultures.
Some died "honorably" even though they were traitors before the Duras sisters were exposed by Picard. The last honorable Duras was probably the one who was killed by Archer at the edge of the expanse.
The funny thing is, I actually uses Gre'Thor in real life. Like when I'm playing a game and found a hacker, I just type "Go burn in Gre'thor, you dishonarble cheater. True men and women fights with out cheating!". It might sounds stupid but...
The piece of dialogue when B’Elanna asked a similar question (something like “aren’t we already dead?”), was Kortar saying “there are some things worse than death” and leaving it at that.
If a person can be honoured in death, does that not somewhat take value from their actions in life if they can be like a murderer or something but then they have family that brings them honour, then that just breaks the system
As stated in the video it sounds like the honor quest is only applicable if you lead a mostly honorable life only to have something unfortunate happen right at the end (like say being killed in an ambush or something).
I like to believe that anyone who lives and fights like a Klingon and who believes in their mythology/religion would be welcome in Sto'vo'kor and possibly be doomed to Grethor if they died dishonorably. This mostly comes from my own experience in Star Trek Online. When a KDF (Klingon Defense Force) player arrives on the Barge of the Dead to stop the Fek'Ihri horde, Jurlek, the former captain of their ship (whom the player has killed), says he isn't surprised to see them, regardless of their race (I was a Ferasan). So, chances are that your species doesn't matter. If you believe the Klingon religion, you are bound to end up in the Klingon afterlife.
@@jannegrey Personally, Age of Discovery has been nothing but pain. I don't like it one bit, and I hate how they're trying to make J'ula a protagonist after spending so much time building her up as a hate sink.
I am not really a religious sort, not like you would find in any other house of worship around the world. I believe we were out here merely to experience life, which doubles as the meaning of life. This also means that I lean more toward fate than "god", or "gods". See, I believe everything happens the way it does because it can happen no other way. You can't go back and change anything, not even your thoughts. The way I see it is, because you can't see what happens with your other choices, you simply never had any other choices. So no matter what you do, or not do, or what happens to you, or not happens to you, it could have happened no other way. What does that mean? That means the only option left is to accept whatever may come and be happy with it, no matter what. Experience it. What happens to that experience when you die? Who knows. Not me. And there is no point in speculating on that either. If it is nothing then that is it, your experience is over and your Earthly remains are recycled. If there is a God, or Gods then there is still no point in speculating, because we cannot know a divine will, we just simply wouldn't be able to comprehend it, and thinking you might be able to comprehend might be considered an arrogant act in the eyes of a divine being, so again, no point in even trying.
What if each and god has his/her daily schedule, and ultimately their very fate, observed, stamped and approved. For those choosing unwisely, their ultimate punishment is already in place and waiting for their arrival. Needing no godly presence to be nearby at all.
Shouldn't Klingon Hell be like, just endless pillows and the only thing to eat is salad or something like that?
And dead or almost dead gak
The rivers flow with root beer and all the donuts you can eat.
Klingon Hell is actually just regular Heaven. It's a very efficient system.
With yoga and anger management classes every day with your camomile tea for breakfast.
And Irving Berlin playing in the background at all times
"BuT tHe ClOaKiNg DeViCe Is FiNe"
Hear that, T'Kuvma?!
That's part of the glitch of the Discovery misinterpretation of Klingons. Klingons got the cloaking technology from the Romulans so they can have a better advantage against their common enemy of the Federation. No doubt that Romulan misinformation twisted Klingon perceptions of their own honor code, over and over, on top of defeat at the weak hands of the Federation made them "adjust" their sense of honor to accept the Romulan gift of cloaking technology. Discovery-era Klingons would be above such tactics at that point... pre-TOS Klingons.
@@That80sGuy1972 Huh?
@@That80sGuy1972 that was only ever a fan theory
@@jasonskeans3327 The exact way the Romulans did it, yes, but when the cloaking device was used by Klingons and who it came from, that can be traced in canon. Discovery writers are the ones trying to rewrite Klingons entirely, not the fans.
@@That80sGuy1972 you are very wrong there is not a shred of evidence from cannon that supports you in any way
By GRE'THOR's hammer, what a savings!
I remember a Voyager episode where Janeway was near death and some creepy creature posing as her father tried to get her give up and go into the afterlife but was really trying to eat her soul or something. I don't consider myself a bad person but I don't look forward to meeting afterlife creatures.
Joke's on him, Janeway has no soul. But can you imagine Janeway in Gre'thor?
Janeway: *marches up to Molor* Hey, douchebag, you're sitting in my chair.
This episode sounds familiar, and i only remember watching parts of it, so i can't remember what the name of it was, or which season it was in, i'm pretty sure it was before season 5 though.
@@kevinramsey417 That is one hundred percent what what would happen.
@@kevinramsey417 and wants coffee..now
@@carlh-thehermitwithwi-fi679 "If only grandpa Hale could see me now"
The one thing I really remember from B'lanas "visit" was Tuvok praising the Bathleth and then flourishes it. "An elegant weapon, for a more civilized time" Ahurm.. the... Bathleth that is..
“Glory to you... and your houuuussee...”
I can hear this
Wow, Kevin Conway (the actor who played Kahless in TNG) passed away a year ago. I'm sure he went to Sto'vo'kor.
The weird thing is that Be'lanna's mother was never actually really dead. At the end of the episode she said something about seeing her when she got home.
This is why you don't volunteer to try one of Neelix's dishes first. Bad trip.
True, thats how understood it too after watching the show so many times.
I might be misremembering here, but wasn't there a later episode where another Klingon says that the only way for a Klingon to remain with the honored dead was to be remembered by the living through continuing, traditions and rituals? If so then could, one be expelled from Sto'Vo'Kor after all who knew them died? Or if their family was entirely wiped out in a mass explosion, or plague, or something?
And what happens in the case of a last of the Mohican type situation?
< Side note; I have to wonder how many generations could possibly remember* everyone who came before?
*within ritual procedure
@@CieJe.Alexander That's why they tell so many stories. So they will always be remembered
“Charon and the Styx” sounds like a great band name
80s hair bands to the rescue 🤘
Well, we already have Styx
"It's way more metal" - Rick
Wow
Just wow.
This guy, right here.
Turning the Klingons into Space Vikings was one of the best ideas the TNG-era writers had.
I remember worf saying that they killed their gods.... it's very Klingon. I wonder if the story of the first klingon is more a mythical take on the creation of the modern klingon personality of combat & honor?. 🖖
This was very fun. I love mythology of all kinds
Will you cover the conflicting death rituals of the Klingons?
One is the "look at the eyes, scream to sky, dispose of the body"
And the other is "guard corpse from predators"
i've generally presumed that "guard corpse" one is older, and perhaps only stays around as a way to ensure that there is a corpse to gather round and scream over, preventing having an enemy despoil the body before the screaming rite can be performed. (remember, the screaming rite is supposed to be a warning that an honorable warrior is entering the afterlife. it makes sense that until said rite is done, klingons would perceive the body and soul would remain linked, and dishonor done to the corpse would reflect on the soul's destination.. and only after the rite is performed that the body becomes nothing but a shell.)
My take is that Klingons aren't particular about how the body is disposed of so long as it is done with respect. Allowing the body to be torn apart by predators or spoiled by enemies would not be respectful.
Upload so fresh it's still 480p.
Or it’s UA-cam’s new quality selector changing it lol
Now i want to see you do a full klingon playthrough of STO, since we'll be visiting Gre'thor. I really liked that episode in Voyager, as it explained a lot about Klingon religion, something we didn't get in DS9 or TNG, well, not to that extent.
Though one must wonder, if Belana's mother got sent to Gre'thor for Belana's refusal to accept her heritage, what happened to Alexander's mother? Or for that matter, what will happen to Worf? Since, that voyager episode established that, no matter how good or honorable your life (and death) was, if your kid sucked at being a Klingon, then you were likely screwed as well.
I can tell you this. Her mother told her she would see her again when she got home or to StoVollKor so she didn't actually die in 2376 but had died by 2378
There is a descent chance that the STO mythology of Gre'thor gets expanded in some time. I mainly suspect that due to the choice of voice actor that Molor and J'mpok are linked.
Definitely, though not in the upcoming season. We're getting more Lukari vs Tzenkethi now that the Discovery Klingon stuff is finally over.
Yeah man, I always think "he's so metal" when a Certifiably Ingame notification hits. 😆
Great video, Rick. Keep 'em coming.
Interestingly to me, the Klingon afterlife is more similar to, if less diverse than, the Greek one, and the honor system is more of a greek (esp. Spartin)/viking hybrid.
nothing like watching a video on (klingon) hell before that weekend. nice work.
If it was up to me when imagining Gre'thor, the ship of the dead would be a palatial yacht where the dishonorable Klingon is served hand and food by the most obnoxiously obsequious servants imaginable. No opportunity for honor. No opportunity to ever experience a challenge again. A life devoid of conflict where their every need is attended to. For Klingons who believe in duty and honor and fail to live up to it, it would be a horrible fate.
But not for Klingons who don't really believe in traditional values and therefore didn't live up to them. I guess they could be perfectly fine with their eternal fate.
@@LeoTheDarkAngel Those Klingons end up in Ferengi hell.
@@MonCappy That sounds surprisngly accurate. Thank you for this insight.
5:54 This was more clear, pre-revamp. Originally, the damned were all tasked with rowing the boat.
I’m suprised nobody tried doing some dumb a sci-fi test of measuring all of a persons being in death or something
Thing is, they did, I forget most of the details but supposedly the subjects all became almost imperceptibly lighter at the moment of death.
@@Rammstein0963. That experiment was flawed and has been disproved but it's wrongly become "common knowledge" that you get lighter when you die.
Its the "21 grams Experiment".
Actually quite an interesting experiment, if ultimately flawed.
I meant more with all the crazy tech they have in ST, though yeah those were pretty bizarre experiments
I always thought the Klingon Myths of their former gods was hint they were originally a genetically modified/engineered slave race.
I’d just like it on the record that Klingon metaphysics is, by definition, “metal”, its just varying degrees of it.
Klingon Hell is surprisingly tame.
Thats why it's punishment.
*satisfied meme guy*
When you catch an upload within 15 mins going live.
This is a great start to the klingon culture
Gre'thor:
Otherwise known as, "The Permanent Home Of The House Of Duras"
day 1 of asking for CI to cover the STO bridges
Alternatively, when the gods were slain there were none left to ferry the souls of the dishonored dead to Grethor and someone needed to take charge of the Barge lest Sto-vo-kor be overrun by the dishonored. Over time the notion of the cursed existence could have superseded that of the vital role. This would be predicated on the idea that both Grethor and Sto-vo-kor existed prior to the deaths of the Klingon's gods.
I remember the TOS episode Day of the Dove, where Kirk says to Kang "Go to the devil" (Because you can't say hell on 60's television. At least not a lot) To which Kang says its a silly human superstition the Klingons don't have. I mean, that's kind of right, sure Grethor looks like hell on the surface even if there's a bit more to it than that. Continuity preserved?
Although given how Klingons were depicted in the original series, that means a lot of them ended up in Grethor given their less then honorable ways back then.
Different frameworks for the meaning of honor.
sfdebris did a video on it ua-cam.com/video/rnWOHVOVgFQ/v-deo.html
I always love the delivery of your sign-offs 😆
i don't know why but for a moment there I had a flashing thought of what a channel like this would do with the rather bonkers Nature of Gi Joe Lore.
Maybe Kaheless reborn just reminded me of Serpentor there for a moment.
Great series, be looking forward to the rest of them.
I love Klingons. This reminded me of the Voyager episode I forgot about. I know there was a Black Fleet of pirates irl, but the Trek version was pretty cool. I have an audiobook on cd that mentions it. I bought it in the late 90s. I think there were some books that mentioned it too, and I do love that bit of world lore, that an offshoot of Klingon mythology that could have easily started with mythology about where drowned sailors went when they died, and it just carried over to space. In STar Trek Online, I made a house that was primarily a space fairing house that had, within the house, gave little lip service to Sto'Vo'Kor but expected for those who died honorably to go to the Black Fleet. I'd made up some head canon about the Black Fleet as well, but I no longer remember what is head canon and what was mentioned in any books or episodes etc. I just think the idea sounds much more mysterious and haunting that alien Valhalla (says the guy with the Tiwaz rune icon) but still in the spirit of Klingins.
The things presented in Barge of the Dead was a great way to world expand for Star Trek.
In the original Star Trek Apollo showed up, but like the other Olympian Gods, revealed to be an alien. Was it ever established if these aliens took on the appearance of the Greek Gods, or if they based the Gods & stories on the aliens?
That’s a damn interesting question. 🤔
would you be able to do a video on the day to day life or a star ship captain, first officer, and chief of security. Like what a typical day for them would be like
There were multiple species of sentient beings on the Klingon Homeworld. One was the Fek'Lar. They were vicious and powerful in battle so strong it took several strong Klingons to take just one and they were legion, breeding as fast as the Klingons. But the Klingons we know today were much [less] flexible in their "honor" and [these ancient Klingons] were not above developing better weapons and tactics and strategies to fight a truly superior foe.
The Klingons defeated the Fek'Lar pushing them back further and further until the Fek'Lar were rendered extinct. Songs are sung of the Fek'Lar to remind the Klingons to respect powerful foes or the Fek'Lar will not respect you.
Seems Federation should do them a favor and recreate the Fek’Lar.
@@williamlloyd3769
They wouldn't based on their prohibition against Genetic Engineering aside from medical purposes. Creating a species for the sole purpose of fighting another would come under, biological weapons and directly against Federation law.
ooo. will we get a stop-vo-kor video too??
1:41 Sadly that episode REALLY bungled the writing.
Day 5 of asking certifiably Ingame to cover the Borg assimilation process
Hang in there 💪🏽
I've asked him countless times to do a cultural index video on the Betazoids he is a fair bit useless
I hope he does someday this idea.
@@ozsdcontentcreator1068 Lol. It's his channel, he's not your personal genie.
Please read my comment?
Now curious.
I heard it said the Feklhiri have their own warships in STO that can attack you in game.
If that is truly an extradimensional abode, then are those Klingons trapped there really the souls of the dishonored..or is there something else going on there?
They always had ships to attack the Klingons in missions, and I believe with the DISCO stuff that was added Feds, Roms, and Jem'Hadar can now fight their ships too.
As a player, you can also helm a selection of Fek'hiri ships.
Keep watching the sto videos... it’s coming this season
Glory to you...and your channel.
I'll be honest, I consider the Q Gods. Whatever their path to becoming what they are was, they can now manipulate time, energy, matter, and space however they see fit. They live forever and are esstinally unkillable. Meets the common definition of a God(s) to me.
Outstanding!
kilka dni temu grałem w tę misję w ST Online, świetna jest
The Klingon Creation myth is told properly in the Deep Space Nine episode “You are Cordially Invited” it’s the first time Star Trek does a Klingon Wedding
What happens to those who leap overboard into the water? Do they suffer an eternity of being feasted upon, or get devoured into nothingness? If it's devoured into nothingness, that'd be a preferable fate to eternal torment.
Some mythology remarks:
- Stovokor sounds like Vahalla. Given that every Klingon except the TOS era ones had a certain "Viking Raider" vibe, that seems fitting.
- Grethor meanwhile has elements of Hellheim (dishonored dead). It is not a particulary cold place, however
Even the number of syllabies (Val-hal-la/So-vo-kor; Hel-heim/Gre'thor) matches.
- The "River of the dead" is a pretty common concept and by far not limited to the Styx: Gjöll, Hubur, the Sanzu and Vaitarna Rivers
Even Ra travels on a boat through the underworld, while spending the whole night dead
- it is possible that there needs to be someone to deal with the dead, so Kotar took up the role after killing the gods. "Someone has to do it and I caused the issue after all." Nothing binding him but his honor? Sounds pretty Klingon to me :)
- that there is the Symbol of the Klingon empire - normal or inverted - when it is based on Kahles sword is not a contradiction. Remember that this hell is personalized: Nymphs that know the voices of your loved ones (or at least can create illusions you mistake for said voices). Personalized torture. That sort of thing.
So it is possible the symbol only appears (or rather is seen by visitors) because people kinda...expect it to the be there.
- In STO, the Fek'iri invasion: Originally it was strongly indicated that those were fake Fek'iri created by the Iconians, based on the Klingons myths.
- Also in STO, the whole Dominion/Hurq Storyline indicates that theFek'iri and Hur'q have a much more mundane origin
Do you have a video on how Starfleet ships survive bearing near Suns without anydamage or affect on how it travels?
We need a tricorder that measures the strength of someone's soul via clamping on a subject's ear.
Under soul see; Pah'
And yes the do need that.
All Dogs go to Stov’olkor
Funny you posted this, just finished that mission in sto. XD
I hope you do other alien mythologies that are known instead of just Klingon mythology. I like that you started with the Klingons but it would be cool if you did not just the Klingons but Bajorans, Asari, Ferangi, and hell why not the obscure like the Nietzscheans. Idk food for thought?
Did like this look into Klingon culture. Interesting and Different.
I'm trying to find something like this about the sarcophagus ship from Discovery. Like an origins video
I'm curious how Deep Space 9 would have done this.
I remember reading that one of the episode DS9 didnt get to do by bgg its end was have Worf meet his father, Mogh, in Grathor or Stovakor and i THINK on a planet. It may be in a trivia section of Memory Alpha but it would have lent weight to the extraterrestrial vs higher plane discussion.
A hell of a video
It could also be that the appearance of the afterlife is subjective to the imagination and perspective of the individual going there, so everything will look _as horrible as immaginable_ (or as awesome as possible in the other place) to each individual, while the broad strokes remain the same (the door is here, the temple there, etc.).
I know they've done good things with the "honorable" post STIII version of the Klingons, but I preferred it when Romulans were the ones obsessed with duty and honor and the Klingons were brutal authoritarians. It made both of them more interesting IMO.
I always felt that it showed that "Honour" is variable, that it's subjective, and that it needs to be acknowledged when dealing with different cultures.
Sto Vo Kor needs a video, true, but who remembers Qui'Tu?
6:50 What they didn't mention was what Kotor killed the gods with.... Dildos... With many many Dildos... apparently.
2:55 interesting theological discussion, would the durass family go to grethor because they're traitors even though most died in battle?
Some died "honorably" even though they were traitors before the Duras sisters were exposed by Picard. The last honorable Duras was probably the one who was killed by Archer at the edge of the expanse.
Gre'Thor Thun'Brg.....is a really fierce warrior. But she fighting for the Gre'thor good.....
Ugh.
So Chancellor Gorkon from Undiscovered Country went to Klingon hell. He was assassinated.
That cloaking device hate.
That cleave ram thing is the least believable thing in this video.
This my favorite one how do I bookmark this?
You can add it to your playlist.
Glory to you and your video
Ah yes that one episode where Janeway went to Klingon hell! 😂😂😂
So is more or less Greek and Roman mitology mixed with northern myth
Lowly pattahk! No true warrior would trip on a rock! Warriors crush rocks under their mighty heels! Qapla!!!
How about the Klingon that was killed by Quark on DS9? Dying at the hands of a scrawny Ferengi is most dishonorable.
what does god need with a starship?
The funny thing is, I actually uses Gre'Thor in real life. Like when I'm playing a game and found a hacker, I just type "Go burn in Gre'thor, you dishonarble cheater. True men and women fights with out cheating!". It might sounds stupid but...
Soooo, Gorkon is in Gre'thor? He was assassinated without a chance to defend himself.
If the Kos'Karii eats the dead... How does it work? Like there's dead and then there's super dead?
There's a big difference between all dead, and mostly dead.
The piece of dialogue when B’Elanna asked a similar question (something like “aren’t we already dead?”), was Kortar saying “there are some things worse than death” and leaving it at that.
Like a Klingon version of Shao Khan,cool
More please
Saw it pop, clicked as fast as I could so...
ZEROTH
Yet how come they never showed what Sto-Vo-Kor is like?
Never badger a Bajoran while bathing.
I like how all the religions in Star Trek are unequivocally entirely made up
It's probably not Klingon Blood, since we know Klingons have pink blood. (ST:6)
Interesting, I wonder if the Vulcans and Romulans have an afterlife belief?
Yes, Tovak mentioned it in season 2 of Voyager that vulcans do.
Vulcan religion and spirituality were touched on in Star Trek III: The Search For Spock.
A "Barge of the Dead" Production.
day 2 of asking CI to cover STO bridges
If a person can be honoured in death, does that not somewhat take value from their actions in life if they can be like a murderer or something but then they have family that brings them honour, then that just breaks the system
As stated in the video it sounds like the honor quest is only applicable if you lead a mostly honorable life only to have something unfortunate happen right at the end (like say being killed in an ambush or something).
day 3 of asking CI to cover STO bridges
Is it possible for a Klingon to have a normal death that is neither especially honorable or dishonorable?
Normal sounds dishonourable.
Do only Klingons go to the klingon afterlife or anyone tha follows their belief?
I like to believe that anyone who lives and fights like a Klingon and who believes in their mythology/religion would be welcome in Sto'vo'kor and possibly be doomed to Grethor if they died dishonorably.
This mostly comes from my own experience in Star Trek Online. When a KDF (Klingon Defense Force) player arrives on the Barge of the Dead to stop the Fek'Ihri horde, Jurlek, the former captain of their ship (whom the player has killed), says he isn't surprised to see them, regardless of their race (I was a Ferasan). So, chances are that your species doesn't matter. If you believe the Klingon religion, you are bound to end up in the Klingon afterlife.
I am dyin to know where children end up. It really feels 50/50 whether babies who sadly pass away end up in hell or not with these guys.
I'm sure Kahless takes their little souls straight to Sto-Vo-Kor.
Are we going to see it in STO series?
And in Greek Mythologies many gods were simply psycho-pumps rather than gods of death.
He'll probably move on to Discovery after the Gamma Quadrant arc, so it's likely.
@@BlueSatoshi Thanks - I can't wait - though I'm not a big fan of Discovery - though I only saw 1st season, so I can't judge it whole.
@@jannegrey Personally, Age of Discovery has been nothing but pain. I don't like it one bit, and I hate how they're trying to make J'ula a protagonist after spending so much time building her up as a hate sink.
Like the Vorlons in Babylon 5
Don’t you think the Progenitors look like the founders
From what I remember, the Progenitor we see in TNG is played by the same actress as the leader of the Founders.
The Ancient Humanoid on TNG and the Female Changeling on DS9 were played by the same actress.
Any technology advanced enough is indistinguishable from magic ... or god
- Arthur C. Clarke
I am not really a religious sort, not like you would find in any other house of worship around the world. I believe we were out here merely to experience life, which doubles as the meaning of life. This also means that I lean more toward fate than "god", or "gods". See, I believe everything happens the way it does because it can happen no other way. You can't go back and change anything, not even your thoughts. The way I see it is, because you can't see what happens with your other choices, you simply never had any other choices. So no matter what you do, or not do, or what happens to you, or not happens to you, it could have happened no other way. What does that mean? That means the only option left is to accept whatever may come and be happy with it, no matter what. Experience it. What happens to that experience when you die? Who knows. Not me. And there is no point in speculating on that either. If it is nothing then that is it, your experience is over and your Earthly remains are recycled. If there is a God, or Gods then there is still no point in speculating, because we cannot know a divine will, we just simply wouldn't be able to comprehend it, and thinking you might be able to comprehend might be considered an arrogant act in the eyes of a divine being, so again, no point in even trying.
What if each and god has his/her daily schedule, and ultimately their very fate, observed, stamped and approved. For those choosing unwisely, their ultimate punishment is already in place and waiting for their arrival. Needing no godly presence to be nearby at all.
Sounds like Star Trek Online is trying to tap into Warhammer 40,000.