Does the sport of Motocross die if there are $25,000 MSRP bikes?? - Gypsy Tales
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- This podcast ticks all the boxes for me... Kris Keefer is a renowned motorcycle test rider and has decades of time in the game. He started his career as a racer, then gear model, OEM test rider and now rules the online space when it comes to the testing of dirt bikes. He has a loyal fan base who over the years has been given some top notch advice on all things dirt bikes and it was a pleasure to sit down for a few hours and talk moto!
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I've said this 100 times. This sport went from a working class "good ole boy" throwing his bikes in the back of the truck and go racing, to a spoon fed homeschooled privileged upper class sport. Every year you are literally pricing 1000s of people out of new bikes. Stop building these "factory stock" bikes and just give us a stock bike, I'll throw mods on as I can afford them.
Your exacting correct so expensive for a weekend warrior daughter and I were having a blast then just too expensive and ridiculous bike cost ! Now have reached 11k for a woods bike I quit the sport simply too expensive, moved on the bigger better more fun things.
Well said Sir.... Well said and that's a fuckin fact. Alpine star the nerve of these mother Fulkerson, boots 700 fn bucks, ect.,ect, ect!!!!!!
100% true. Less than 25% of ppl buying MX bikes ..whether 2-stroke or the modern 4-strokes (that are amazing ) race at any level.
@@KTMr-sw7iz there's always the trail type bikes which are very good.
@@Davido50 had them all
For 20k the damn bike better come with full medical insurance
Yes. It will destroy the sport. The current pricing on bikes is already dropping people like flies. Look at the numbers in amateur motocross across the ranks. Less tracks. Less riders. Costs soaring. Then factor in the corporate greed and see ya
Dude really out here campaigning for $30k dirt bikes in 2022 wtf even is this show any more?!?
Kris Keefer is fake news as far as I'm concerned - Mike Sleeter
Yeah that’s a pretty stupid idea.
He's saying we need both, like make a regular kx450 and then why not have say kx450 Premium or whatever with better wheels, suspension whatever ya know.
Look at cars, they have a base model and a high end model.
We absolutely do not. Ping was right. This is insane. We need CHEAP race bikes-two strokes-that kids can run on the national level or even through a support class at pro rounds to actually grow the sport. Meanwhile this dude is casually spitballing to the entire industry it’d be cool if we had 450’s that cost nearly TRIPLE what they do??? FOH 🤡🤡🤡
You have one guy here that's completely out of touch and the other one who seems like a grifter. As far as I know he has no engineering background or any other educational attainment that would qualify him to be a "tester" It's just his opinion and you can find a bunch of other people with different opinions
I bought my 04 yz450 for 1900. I put 1500 more into it. That's about all I'm willing to spend. This sport used to be for everyone. I would love a new bike but 10k is already insane.
It's a serious commitment for sure! My '21 Raptor 700R-SE sport quad was near $12k out the door. U can't even find em at dealers they so popular so less then msrp is pipe dream.
You can't even find new '23 YZ450Fs at dealers right now so figure more like $11500 out the door easy
10k out the door for a GasGas MC250 2t
04 yz450 is a weapon in the right hands. Leaps and bounds above 90s bikes.
@@Davido50 or go 3 years older and save yourself literally 7 grand. Brand new isn't necessary
Keep stock bikes affordable so more people can ride. The sport is small enough. Any smaller and the sport is gone and so would this podcast.
I’m out when the 25k bikes show up. About done now. Sport won’t hold up to it.
I am on 2006 RM250 not upgrading to a new bike as long as the old one runs
I'm out when 17000 bikes show up
@@redneckracing556 I’m still on my 2007 RM 250. At one point I bought a new CRF250, and I completely missed my RM. Nothing like them.
I think the idea is to offer still a stock model and a premium tuned machine. People buy 100k Ducatis because they can. Doesn't mean they are gonna best a stock r1 at the track. There are people out there with money. Always will be. Gotta figure the guy who buys the 25k bike was already gonna spend the extra 15k on bike "upgrades" anyway
I really hate saying this but motocross is dead. Most folks I grew up riding with have quit just due to the cost of everything. Local tracks are shutting down every year. This really sucks to see..
But gncc and hair scramble is growing. Ironman had over 2500 bikes this year and around 1000 atvs.
25k for a DIRT BIKE??!?!? NO..NO..NO..NO..NO..NO..NO AND FCK NO..The greed in this country is just getting way out of hand. For manufacturer to even think they can charge that much for a dirt bike is a slap in the face..its not a V4 Ducati or a V4 Aprilia that has electronically adjustable suspension traction control and 200 hp and is street legal it's a FCKN DIRT BIKE!
Already the sport is too expensive for the age range of people who should be involved. I'm 29 and just now could probably afford to buy a new bike and race. It's too late though at this age.
I agree with the sentiment, but your not to old. I’m in my mid 30’s and I am loving racing more now than I ever have.
Bought my first bike at 29 (96 rm250), 8 years later I'm racing for fun in the 30+ C group and just bought a 23 crf450r!
You’re absolutely right but the sport survives on a limb thanks to guys like us now that we can finally live our dream of buying the bikes and owning the trucks to take them an hour away to play shit you can finally race and keep you local track alive if they haven’t killed you by building it for asshole rich kids who started racing at 4 and half years old lol
Don’t need a new bike get near any yz250 just go race bruh! Get after it! 👊
@@TheFreerider1987 same, been riding my whole life didn’t race much in 20s, 33 now enjoying racing more than ever and I just broke my pelvis,back and hip(sacrum) but guess what that’s what happens when you go fast and I’m going to be back in no time! 👊💪
Bike prices have been too high for years now....and now your talking bout 25k in the future...NO F-ING WAY...
Not the base bike, a limited edition basically factory bike for the pros who aren't on factory teams.
10K Is Hurting The Sport 25k ? May Do It In
Silly idea, but there are gulllible people out there with more money than sense who would think they look cool with one sitting in their shed.
As someone who just got into moto at 23 solely because of money preventing me previously, this is not the way to go. We need 3500 msrp two strokes again and cheaper bikes all around. Do you guys not realize how hard it is to get new people into a sport that requires you to spend 10k+ for a brand new bike? The sports dying cause theres no new riders and anytime i try to talk to my buddies about getting bikes the number one factor that stops them is simply the PRICE. The sport will only continue to die the more expensive and niche it becomes.
I agree, but that will never happen. 2 strokes are a headache to produce because for government regulations. Also to manufacture a 4k bike it would be so neutered compared to the 8k+ bikes most people would just choose to spend the extra money. Look at Apple, they cut their smaller cheaper phone because it didn't sell well compared to the more expensive bigger phone.
@@jeffgayzose8129 true but thats why i say moto will only continue to die cause it will only become harder to get into
@@chaos_chesti6579 moto has always been expensive to get into. It really depends on the economy and how much expendable money the average person has to spend. The more money the more people in the sport, the less money the less people in the sport.
Saw a theory on a message board that Suzuki is actually playing the long game to become the #1 manufacturer for entry level budget bikes.
Good theyre smart as fuck for that. The rest will
Die as time goes on
Suzuki rocks. Love there new RMZ250. Sold out everywhere in Upper Midwest A
Makes logical corporate sense. There is that niche that needs filled.
almost bought a rmz250 2018 the dealer had listed for $5k but when i called they said it was sold and tried to sell me like an $8k 2021 or something idk. maybe they never even had the 2018
That’s nonsense. Suzuki will probably pull out of motocross in 5 years.
I think it will have a negative affect. I have made the decision years ago that used market is the only way I can stay involved in this sport. This is supposed to be grassroots. I am Hoping the manufacturers realize what market they are missing.
But I will just keep buying and fixing used bikes til something changes.
Cant even afford a used bike or any medical care when i get hurt. Had to give it up entirely. So far out of reach and price range its not even worth trying anymore.
I'm trying to get into the sport but it's hard when abused early 2000s 125s cost 5kAUD
25k for a bike or buy a car. One has a purpose the other is a toy. Bikes are 10k stock right now and that’s insane.
People willing pay 20-30k for a sxs. The 25k bike is clearly not for your amateur racer, it's for the am pro and pro guys who would already be putting that much or more into their stock bikes.
If you want a $25,000 bike just use the aftermarket to build your own. It's part of the fun of having these bikes to pick and choose what you want on it.
Catering to the rich while pricing out the average riders.
We want to grow the sport of dirt bikes yeah, why are we selling $25k dirt bikes? Ridiculous
The sport will go on but it will be a shell of itself. Easy solution allowed 250 2 strokes to race 250 4 strokes in the lights class 2strokes are cheaper especially to race & maintain which would benefit normies. Because riding dirt bikes has gone down when you go to the dunes or your local track compared to the 90s & early 2000s
Money will move to the used market even more.
A 30 thousand dollar bike, thats ridiculous!!! for someone that is just racing local races! Ya doesn't make sense!!
He’s saying is an extra option on top of the normal stock bikes, not replacing it.
Yet the industry wonders why ratings are down and bike sales are dead.
my dad said his 2000 cr250 in 1999 was 5k out the door. now he can almost get that back in Cali. crazy times
Adjusted for inflation is $8600 so there’s something I guess
For real. Older 2 strokes are still pricey here in socal.
This guy needs to take his money and make a giant fuck the motocross community sign.
I love dirt bikes been in a sport forever but I am having trouble buying $3000 used bikes. Everything so expensive food, gas ,cars ,insurance , there's no way I am going to have some giant monthly payment for a 25,000 Dirtbike that I'm riding maybe once a month are you kidding me you're dreaming. I know I'm old but I could buy a brand new bike in the 70s with my paper route money.
This is why I still have my 1997 YZ285 ( big bore kit in 2011 ) can’t afford $10,000. Gas ⛽️ in Washington state is $4.50 / gallon and living paycheck to paycheck. FJB !
Bikes are too expensive as is. New KTM’s after tax 13k that is rediculous. I will keep riding my 09 yz250 until I can’t find fuel for it anymore if the prices continue to climb I would walk away
I believe it was in 1989 that Motocross Action magazine ran an article that basically tried to reassure people that the 250cc 2-stroke motocross bikes breaking the $3,000 mark wasn't the end of the world. >.
Lmao well that was the truth..but pricing is well at top end of feasible for 80% riders. 10k minimum for modern new 450F MX bike at least!!
I remember when the 89 CR250 broke the $3,500 barrier and people were stroking out. I need to put that into an inflation calculator to see where that puts us today.
So I just put it in and it would be a little over 8,400 today..
@@Davido50 Who the fuk has 10k for a bike? Inflation hasnt reached my fuking wages yet! I make 25k a year killing myself building patios and other stonework. Thats half my yearly salary. Id have to live on the street and sell my car to have a bike to ride......
New bike prices are very, very expensive now ..& def @top of price pt ! *Possibly already too much. A niche bike for $20k is fine for small prod run..but generally prices are too expensive* .
yes, it will hurt blue collar riders, trustafarians not so much.
2024 new class 250,new riders 350, 450 pro class. For Supercross & Motocross KTM is all in a testing AkA following the money
A lot of complaints about increasing prices, as if its the bike industry alone is gouging people. EVERYTHING is going up in price. Buy-in to any motor sport is nuts. Heck, any hobby will cost ya $10k to get really established. Want a new truck? Thats a small mortgage. Im not defending it, but its more of a global economic issue.
People complain about prices but I guarantee you if there was a cheaper option no one would buy it. Everyone would make fun of the guy on the cheap bike
Exactly, happened with Apple. They no longer have the iPhone mini everyone said they wanted because it didn't sell. Yamaha sells a $4500 230cc bike that they haven't updated in years because nobody buys them.
better bring back the two-smokes..
My last new bike was a 1990 KTM 250..$3700.
It doesn’t matter. Tracks are shutting down in droves, or turning into fully private “training facilities”, so the sport will kill itself before bikes reach those price levels.
Normal riders would never buy a $25,000 dirt bike. Who would even want one?
A mate of mine bought a 2021 500EXC-F a year ago and it cost him AU$19k. He put another thousand into it straight away on suspension work. That's a lot of money for a dirtbike.
19K should include customized suspension settings based on weight and skill level.
@@rockman4699 I agree but unfortunately it doesn't. Almost no one I know has been able to buy a bike and have the suspension right for them straight off the showroom floor.
I want a 23 ktm 300xc so bad but can’t see spending 11k on a dirtbike. I miss the days of bikes being $7500
Theyre selling for 14.5k lol
What a year and you might be able to find a low hour bike for 8-9k from a rich guy who bought one and never rode it.
I bought a brand new 2024 yz250x for $7600
$25k TA' LOCO! HAHAH
this is why we need to go back to 2strokes, make all the class cc for cc, 250 or 450 irrespective if its 2T or 4T that way it will be competitive to race 2Ts again
💯
They do that in Australia and still, the 4 stroke is superior in both classes
@@janniksims5740 there’s no mainstream 450cc modern 2t on the market, closest thing would be a BRC500 kit that atleast one rider proved was faster in his hands around a track compared to his 450 4T lap time, but all this will be irrelevant in a few years as EV bikes will beat both 2t and 4t and be cheaper to maintain
@@gregducati999 but there are state of the art 250 two strokes and still the fast guys ride 250 fourstrokes. The 500 is draining your energy way faster than any 450 would, getting one quick lap out of it, is not the problem but getting 30 minute Motos out of it and not getting fucked by the power is on a whole nother page.
So in 2001 a KX250 was $5,999 and now the KX450 is $9,599 and i don't know what difference inflation makes but the new bikes are much, much better now days. So in the grand scheme of things, bikes are still very affordable especially when you consider how much bike you get now. Edit; $5,999 in 2001 inflated to now is $9,600.
The title says 30k….
Real wages have either fallen for most people or remained relatively flat since 2001. Moreover, people have more claims against their incomes now that they did in 2001 as well - so for many finding the money for these types of sports / pastimes is a lot more difficult now than it was in the past. Wages are not keeping pace with the price of products - and were it not for credit / payment plans demand for motorcycles would be far worse. it has never been cheap to get into - but it's really starting to get out of reach for too many now.
Using an inflation calculator is useless as well simply because technology and people's tastes, and preferences are not stable / fixed over time.
@@tdunster2011 I mean I'm not sure how true your statement about wages staying the same is. Your point is valid but I wonder if it's a little exaggerated by saying wages have dropped. You can make 20 bucks an hr at an entree level mowing grass haha. Walmart has gone up 8 bucks an hr since 2001 which is almost 50%
Inflation Calculator - 2001 - $5,999 - 2023 - $10,139. And add pressure on wages such as no raises and it costs more than that.
Be nice if we can have a stock air-cooled class for kids.
It's called the 50 shaft drive 4-6 class lol
If the big manufacturers continue digging this hole, they will eventually fall into it. Because STOCK electric bikes will appear that will outperform non-electric bikes. and those 20k bikes they wanna sell us will end up in a museum. 😂
Electric bikes are gonna cost more than gas bikes and won't be ideal for most people
@@jeffgayzose8129 They will at first, but then the price comes down... Just like computers... Just like mobile phones.
I have 41 bikes and I love them all from 1977 xt to my 2017 Crf 450 and everything under the Sun it’s a love of the sport
Mx is huge in the states, it’s the pinnacle for riders. The states is one of the only country’s that has stock youth classes.
The sport is pricing out almost everyone, In the Uk autos and 65’s are £4K and 4.8k.
Both then get £1k suspension, upto £3k engine tunes, £1k clutches, 1k on bigger swing arm, bigger wheels on auto, then clamps, throttles exhausts etc
Every kid gets 2 bikes a year at least.
For me to get my lad on 2 competitive 65’s for 2023 my bill is pretty much £20k before we even turn a wheel next year.
That’s not far of what a lot of adults earn a year
“Comes with a rekluse clutch” I’m not sure how many people would want that along with their A kit forks 😂
I sell my bikes with low hours, rekluse clutch and upgraded suspension…. And it sells within a week every time for top dollar
Not an auto rekluse they make normal clutches too.
@Duke Bonde I build them and lose money when selling…. 😂. They sell quickly though. Gotta buy KTM/ Husky if you want top resale value though
Needs much more to justify $15k+ price!
@@MXJEFF94 depends on area /demand
If bikes go any higher you’ll cut the pool of riders in half nationwide. Myself and my kids will just quit riding. I’m not paying that for a dirt bike. The sport has already become a wealthy and privileged only crowd. You won’t see the “I grew up with nothing but reached my dream” story in motocross. The immediate fix would be rules that eliminate using any part that isn’t readily available to the public. Stop with the factory only parts and $100k race bikes. $5k for a KTM 50SX is outright stupid, especially since they are complete junk, and keeps a lot of parents from getting their kids into the sport.
My 03 kx is worth more know then what I originally paid, it has gotten out of hand, I used to by used bikes for $250-$500 in the 90s
Comedy moment at @07.47
I cracked up, even make Jason a bit awkward. haha
100% it'll kill the sport . . . When ktm is selling two stroke motocross bikes, even though yes they've updated them but are still nowhere near as technologically advanced as a 4 stroke. . . Ktm are selling them for $18000 nzd. That's a f*ckin joke and they're getting greedy
I sold my FE450 this autumn, because I use to change to a new bike every 3-4 year. But I kind of regret selling it, since it was still in good condition and a new te300 has gotten much more expensive here in Sweden.
Yes! I like the HRC works bike. Now, take it a step further. Titanium everywhere. Save us a few lbs. And have everything tuned to work in harmony like Keefer was saying about the engine and ecu. Custom gear ratios. Give us everything. And have it made to order like the varg. Already setup. Idk. I probably couldn't or wouldn't get one, but it'd be nice to have the option!
I bought a 21.5 Husqvarna fc450 rockstar edition for $11.500, never even rode the bike before I dropped it at my suspension guy shop. Swapped out the WP crap for a KYB SSS spring conversion and revalved everything for a (155 lbs rider) including the shock. Tossed in a Rekluse radius cx auto clutch and put on a titanium header. Honestly it's the best bike I've ever ridden by a long shot. Was it worth the money, I'd have too say yes... No sense dying the richest fucker in the graveyard ! 🤘🏼
My 60 YO riding friend got a 17 crf450x.
The ignition/ecu map change he made was just to make go from teleporter/rip-yer-arms-out to sane.
In 2017 I purchased a new YZ250F for $9100 AUD. Went to the bike shop earlier in the week to look at the 2023 model and it was like 15k rrp. That’s some hectic inflation.
The sports dead with 10,000$+ motorcycles… 30,000$ dirt bikes finally kills the sport
I'd be keen if you could buy a bare bones bike.
Spec what you do and don't want.
I.e I don't want the suspension, wheels, triples, exhaust......what ever.
No f'n way would I buy a $25K dirt bike that will be rebuilt or thrown away in a couple of years at most (if you actually ride it). Hard pass. They are killing the sport with high prices and ridiculous maintenance intervals. Its basic economics, the higher the price, the lower the demand. If you ride a lot you can kill even a trail bike, that you maintain, in a couple of years. Look up the price of rebuilding a four stroke motor, suspension, brakes, chain/sprocket, etc. They aren't worth rebuilding when they are smoked.
Of course the prices of bike are going to kill the sport. Used to be anyone could go and get a bike. When a bike is the price of a new car . I bought my first bike for $1500 and it was a little over a year old. I could buy 10 of those bikes now for the price of a new bike these days. My Ktm I have now was probably close to $12,000 new. Getting absolutely ridiculous
You used to be able to get in the sport for about 5k...3500.00 for decent used bike, 500.00 to rebuild, repair where needed, and 1000.00 for gear. Try that now...good luck. Used bikes 6k, so may as well look at brand new, so yep, now you need 12k to get rolling. Way out too much, and keeps sport from growing, in my opinion. Hope we don't price ourselves out...greatest sport on earth💯
It’s the market where you’re at. Tons of 2019-2021 for 4k-5.6k around me.
@@Yyytttbbbddddooo where do you live? Looking at 2005 to 2010 bikes that are beat for that price level in OH. Damn, maybe I need to just move..lol💯😆
@@unstoppableplayz6948 North East Arkansas.
The irony in these whining comments about bikes being too expensive is comical!
Explain the irony
@@Dashriprock4 @Jeff Williams everyone laughs about Suzuki. So people joke about the cheapest bike but complain that bikes are to expensive. You can't expect upgrades if you don't pay for them. Want a cheap bike? Go and buy the one that's the same since 2013(?).
@@Tim_236 you are correct.
2023s What im excited about is they're still gas baby! ⛽️
25k bikes off the floor is ridiculous. Most people who d0 this full time came from veryy humble backgrounds. No way they could afford it. Cant afford it now
$10K motocross bikes killed modern motocross. No one that I know can afford to race anymore. For $5000 you can buy a vintage bike from whatever era that you want, race it with cheaper entry fees, cheaper maintenance, better tracks, safer tracks and ton's more fun racing. You have to be rich or crazy to race a modern bike.
27k factory edition four-stroke vs 9 year old YZ125 = YZ still more fun, better handling and more reliable
I've got a baddy 21 250sxf! 50rwhp
i race bikes , they went so expencive that ducati is now having the best bike by far at the cost of 30k euro . now other brands stopped making 1000 cc sportsbikes so yes it will kill the market
"Give me a factory bike that's insane" coming from the guy that says "No one can handle a 450". Seems a little odd.
I've seen garage doors ripped off SWAT style for $2000 bikes
Every day of the week id buy a new 2013 250f brand new for 10k then any new bike on the market today... the cost of running and riding new bikes has gone through the roof.. its getting so ridiculous
Id rather just scoop a 2004 sx125 for $1500 off Craigslist and call it a day lmao
Gypsy tales is on a rampage of bad takes this year bro.
Bro thinks we need to get rid of outdoor motocross
And they should be making $25,000 models for all of us that can’t afford a stock bike
Come on man. Bikes are already way to expensive. How about complete factory bikes for 25 or less
🆘 The tight jean gen is about to feel some real pain starting Q3 of 2023. First thing to go is the toys. Prices bout to drop……….💰
I think it needs to do like old NASCAR. Had IROC all cars were the same, took skill to win.
IROC wasn't old NASCAR but a much smaller series with drivers from different disciplines of motor racing competing in spec cars randomly assigned each race. Think NASCAR was the Winston Cup Racing series back then.
If you sell a 25k bike the money would or should be in concierge service. All things tuned to you by a mechanic at a track.
I don't think a side by side should be over 25k let alone a mx bike be anywhere near 25k...
The prices are getting out of hand. Add all the fees and taxes have limited so many people from getting in to the sport. Snowmobile prices are getting even crazier.
Companies need to bring back 2 strokes. 4 strokes are great but have become way too expensive.
Motocross is for slappin ass and being a blue collar hero. Who needs cone valves and gold wheels?
10 years ago you could buy a two year old truck a brand new motocross bike a brand new snowmobile and an enclosed trailer for under 30 grand now I can’t buy a two-year-old truck because I still make the same money I did 10 years ago
And then pay a factory rider 10k for first place...gtf outa here.
Newsflash nothing in this world is getting cheaper. gotta make more bread folks. Value of the dollar is trashed spend em if yagottem
New factory turbo snowmobiles start at 20K and you only get maybe 6 months of riding a year, the side by side market is way way beond that even before people spend tons on add ons, people will buy a 25K bike, maybe not in huge numbers but they will sell
That's my point exactly. Not to mention the people who would by these 25k+ bikes either have a lot of money or are pros who would have spend that customizing their stock bike.
So long as the only bikes that expensive are the factory editions.
Electric will take over! I'm just the messenger
I’m buying a 2023 XCF 350 in 2028! Let’s gooo
I just got a 2022 yz450f like a month ago and financing it the total loan was $11700. Unreal. 15 years ago it was $6000
how much was the down payment on that beast
My kids are doing bmx instead of moto because of this.
To put into perspective, a yz250f is like 8500-9k. A mt09 .... 650 more cc, only costs 9400. Mt07, 450 more cc, only 7400. Why spend more for something most people can only use on the weekends when you can have something you can commute and still have fun every day... 11k, that's almost a brand new 600cc Supersport. The difference in tech and quality, research and development between these comparisons, insane
You're clearly uneducated on dirt bikes and there purpose
I’m into motards but it’s so insane to me that the big boy ones cost more than most 4 cylinder litre bikes
I thought dirt bikes were meant to be cheaper lol
For the Love of God : please say “ husk Varna “ or “ hoos Varna “ 🤣🤣
If someone made a 25k bike, it doesn't mean all bikes would be 25k..
It sure will, the price right now is too high and that is why bike sales are dropping year after year.
short answer yes. a bike i can only play with in the dirt isnt worth more than all 3 of my cars combined lol
to me the sport will be better if everyone ride bikes off the shelfs instead factory stuff. that way it will be up to rider and bike brands
If only there was a crf250rwe or a kx250sr