Destiny Content Vault: The Beginning of the End | Myelin Games
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Myelin Moaning Minute on the Destiny Content Vault, watch Paul's and Aztecross's video, linked below.
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Destiny Content Vault: The Beginning of the End | Myelin Games
• Destiny Content Vault:...
I feel like Bungie made a conscious decision about three years ago that they didn't need to worry about getting new players and that their existing player base made them too big to fail.
SkillUp made some comments like this in his review of Tennocon 2018, that AAA games felt too big to fail, and that many companies view bigger offices and hiring more people guaranteed success, when in reality it produced factory assembly lines and SAFE design, when games should really be about ambition and trying to new things and wowwing players.
@@RedShadowOfSaturnRemedy studios is a good example of an ambitious studio with tenure
@SuperRONDALE They are, that's true. And like, Remedy is great. I wouldn't call them a powerhouse studio, but they make reliably good games. Even Control, which didn't hit with everyone, was really solid, and did more than just be "female Max Payne" or "here's another Alan Wake," even though it's related in universe.
Their games are very good. 👍
Smells like 2008
@@SuperRONDALEAnd yet, their games don’t sell all that well.
The content vault is what broke me. not right away but much later. when I was telling a friend what happened to cayde 6 and all we could do was watch youtube videos. I'm still floored by how poorly bungie has treated the story of their game.
That mission and cutscene is in the game right now you can go play it.
They don’t care about the story, they care about money and squeezing as much of it out of their player base as they can. As soon as the game stops making them money you best believe they’ll be dropping it.
@@vismortis but you can't play ANY of the story around it. A "destiny story PowerPoint mission" doesn't count
@@vismortis it took years to get it back and it was such a stop gap solution it barely helps
@@vismortisawesome. There’s a mission in which you are introduced to a character and he also dies in that same mission. That doesn’t really do much for a new player. The reason that it sucked when cayde died is because we loved him. We spent missions and strikes and cutscenes and adventures with him. What I’m saying is that if they didn’t delete 80% of the game and 98% of cayde, then new player could have developed a relationship with him and felt something when he died. When I watched cayde die I decided I wasn’t stopping until uldren was dead. Well that’s the other thing isn’t it. New players would play that and ask why Crow killed Caude and why he is just chilling at the tower now, but all of that isn’t in the game now. None of crows development or causes story is in the game for new players to experience. Who even are these characters to them? Nobody
I stopped playing when they vaulted early destiny 2 content. I'm not okay with taking content I paid money for and locking away. Fucking ridiculous
My buddy started a new account (long story) and I’ve been knocking out all of the PvE stuff for him since he’s predominantly a PvP player. This experience has taught me two things:
1. D2, in its current state, is one of the most unwelcoming games I’ve EVER played. Lack of materials, no in-game tutorial on build crafting, lack of decently rolled armor, garbage weapons, etc. makes this game a grind. I’m a long-time Destiny veteran and it’s only through experience and skill that I’ve been able to get through the Legendary campaigns. If I was a true “New Light” I would’ve been discouraged right out of this game a long time ago!
2. The story, from a New Light’s perspective, is unbelievably confusing! You have all of these quest nodes pulling you in a bunch of different directions. It’s not even clear where you should begin from a pragmatic standpoint (e.g. what will net you the best loot and customization features first). The DCV has absolutely ruined the new player experience and killed the nostalgia for the veteran player.
Been saying this ever since the content vault happened. I used to sherpa my friends. On-boarding should have been a bigger focus before the game went FTP.
I'm not sure if it's good idea for him to invest time into the game, if he doesn't like PVE then there's not much reason to play D2, PVP certainly isn't this game's strong suit, I would argue it's one of the worst PVP in any relevant first/third person shooter.
Yep! I just logged in for the first time in 3 seasons, and I hate it more then I stopped playing.
I started during the extended portion of Arrivals, just before the DCV. While it is much, much worse now, it was terrible BEFORE the vaulting. Red War & Curse were so bland and lacked any cohesion with each other, the game world or what came after.
This has always been a Bungie problem overall. The DCV decision and eventual half-backpedaling just made all the starting, story, and progression issues more obvious.
I agree with everything except the legendary campaign. The legendary campaign wasnt meant for new lights. It was meant to challenge current players
I started playing Destiny after it became free and found it pretty good! So good I decided to buy some expansions that were on sale. One month later, they started the Vault and simply removed the content I literally payed for, and (because of life and all) didn't even get the real chance to play. I stoped playing Destiny immediatelly.
The red war campaign is 100% crucial for the new light experience, it’s criminal to cut it out
I still feel like a static commemorative edition would be nice just have a disc or two for that specific era... Vanilla collection! 😎
Removing content people paid for is criminal, period. I don't recommend the game to my friends for that reason alone. I'm still here, but I'm not going to encourage a bad precedent for the entire games industry.
@@CreideikiRox idk I’m ok with losing curse of Osiris
@@RicardoLopez-oe8hp so do i my fellow guardian
@@RicardoLopez-oe8hpFair enough but taking away the warmind was a crime.
Escalation protocol and the sleeper quest were very fun
We also paid for these different raids and different campaigns
We paid for a license on a platform... for however long bungie decides we can play it... the many paged end user agreements written by lawyers for lawyers. It's sad. Laws should be passed where any digital content paid for is accessible indefinitely forever.
hence why bungie used the words "vaulted" not "deleted"... it gave us all the illusion that they may return some day
I don't play D2, but this idea being borrowed from Disney sounds like such a scam
So true Myelin and Byf are a major reason so many of us have been invested in the story of Destiny over the last 10 years.
Iirc, tower and gear inspection load times were actually faster for nearly a year after Beyond Light, but went right back to being painfully long when the 30th Anniversary update came out
I agree with what someone said earlier. They should have allowed EVERYTHING to remain but allowed us to install/uninstall what we want across all platforms so that we can have all of the content in which we paid for but will also each person to play what they want. It just feels like they don't want to maintain all of that content because they don't have the staff to maintain nor update those locations. I would be completely okay if they took them away to update them and release them for free but not release "new" paid content that's just reskins or parts of content that we paid for already (i.e. Witch Queen Expansion with parts of Mars or Season of the Deep with parts of Titan).
Ha ha I just said this nearly same thing. I agree I think that's why they took em out to was they didn't want to have to service them. I've been saying for few seasons now that I wish they'd take a season off from making new guns and such and just reprise some of our most beloved content. What I'd give to run my brother thru Whisper if the worm or focus loot by running the Menegrie. I'm still mad at myself for never trying the older strikes when they were GM's.
I do wonder about what the actual plausibility is of making this possibility, like obviously it would be a massive win to be able to package the content in individual download packs and be able to chop and change between what content you do and don’t have downloaded at a time. But I imagine the technical limitation or more likely the manpower issue is what’s really stopping the devs from working on this feature. Not to mention we get a swift kick in the nuts having armor ornaments from previous season passes dished out years later and upcharged massively when they were available for 10$ as part of a pass. Just sucks all around.
The destiny content vault was the main reason I stopped playing the game for a few years. I eventually came back once they said they'd never vault any more content we paid for, and then left for good when they again started vaulting things we paid for. Haven't touched the game since and probably never will again
I dont understand when they content vaulted stuff. I mean ESO Online is massive and you can start from the very beginning and do everything and the game is 10 years old. There are a lot of games out there that are massive and live service and nothing is content vaulted. Bungie has issues!
Destiny 2 wasn’t built to last, it was made under activision. In which case they had a contract that they’d release a new Destiny game every 3 years. D2 is WAY PAST ITS LIFESPAN. We seriously need a Destiny 3 that is built to last
Elder Scrolls Online Online
@@TheCocomungesyep should have ended in shadowkeep
@@TheCocomungesa d3 is not going to save the game or the community from bungie I’m afraid, Sod’s Law can possibly happen.
Same with WoW. Older expansions get "sunset" the sense that they arent current content anymore, but its all still in the game!!! The game is massive but they dont take things away from people that have bought it. They understand at least this concept *you dont bite the hand that feeds you, the community is the ones that pay your bills*
My wife and I started in season of the undying. It was overwhelming in an absolutely fantastic way. There was so much content to do and explore and the community was so helpful and welcoming. Things like outbreak perfected and whisper of the worm were amazing and now they are gone for good. Honestly we have been playing less and less. Bungie has gone HARD on FOMO and every little thing we miss kills are desire to play all the more. FOMO works when your player base is young kids with unlimited free time but it dies the minute your player base have lives.
Given the exotic rotator, we'll likely see Zero Hour return to give us a craftable Outbreak, also letting us maybe get red border Bygones and other Gambit themed weapons. Dunno about Whisper, I doubt they'd make it craftable, but who knows.
The DCV is the biggest Snake Oil I’ve personally encountered in gaming.
All they had to do was keep Red War and they wouldn't have nuked the player onboarding process. Though, the game itself had so many issues that turned people off; I'll never forget my Mass Effect loving wife going through Red War, CoO, Warmind, and Forsaken only to say F-This and never go back when she bought some gear from Xur and couldn't afford the infusion costs to bring them with her through the various stories. The frikken economy killed her drive to play beyond the story campaigns. So, who knows?
I think you nailed it, and AND this has caused them to squeeze their dedicated players, corroding their base and failing to pull in new players
yup, no new classes or anything just a few new guns you can craft and new locations. strand is the most boring shit i have ever experienced for an expansion and I played cataclysm wow expac every day for the entire thing.
Not only did they take out the main core content, they also resell it to people constantly - see the vex themed eververse sets that are not $60 for all 3
After the EGS 'free' legacy collection, I've been playing with a few new light players, and have helped them find their feet in the game. It's been a shoddy nightmare, not just the quests, or the terrible tutorials, or speedrunning Guardian ranks to access basic armor mods, but in terms of explaining the plot in the first place.
I have a document with a script attached just for the basic narrative explanation, and it's over 30 pages long of just dot pointed sentences.
Narrative onboarding is key to acquiring and retaining new players, and right now, D2 has constructed a narrative sea urchin land mine, where reading into the early game plot is a black hole of 'this was sunset' or 'its in a lore video'. No other game I've played has taken this approach, and I think Bungie is finding out why now.
I started playing with my Dad (79) because we've been looking for something we can play together that has a lot of content. and in the first day it looked good. So we got all the stuff for the game. We had no idea that the content it still advertises isn't playable let alone had we any idea that platforming was the gate keepr to almost evedrything in this game. So we spent a lot of money on a game that... isn't great.
Quantity over quality created this mindset of bungies. The most freeing thing was stopping playing this game and realizing hiw many amazing games i passed over to continue dragging myself through the mud in destiny.
Just like they could have run D1 and all it's content on a separate server and just kept it secure, and maintained, they could have done a D2 Legacy Server, with all the vaulted content on some kind of subscription model for access (especially if you knew the money generated was going into maintaining that content) that can be added to as more content gets vaulted. But what do I know? I am not a dev, a coder, a network engineer or anything. The New Light Experience could have bridged both legacy and current if handled properly.
That’s actually a really good idea cause Ik I miss the leviathan raids and the 2 raid lairs.
No way am I paying a subscription for access to old content I already paid for. Its an interesting idea maybe for people who didn't get to play any of it.
This is an interesting concept. I imagine one difficult thing that's different about keeping D1 online, though, (beyond the server costs and maintenance and what not) is what to do about people's armor and weapons and other gear as D2 continues. So even if we assume they could take a snapshot of D2 from right before Beyond Light and host all of that content on a server, what weapons and armor do I have when I log into it? Is it a snapshot of what I had then? If I didn't have some Forsaken exotic but get that exotic in the main D2 .exe, does that carry over into D2 Legacy? What about sparrows, shaders, armor, etc. I have no idea about dev, but I imagine this would be difficult to deal with.
Destiny's gameplay is great and the setting/story was great. When you remove chunks of one, the other can only keep general interest afloat for so long. I feel for new lights who get tossed in and might have fun with the gunplay and mechanics of certain activities, but are potentially forever blind to what characters and enemies were influential. It's sad to think about how Cayde-6's return for Final Shape is expected to carry a lot of weight, but every ounce of it will be missed for anyone who started playing after the content vault. 😢
This is not a new problem. Managing content for a live service has been a known issue since (at least) Ultima Online in 1997. It's just that people refuse to learn from the past and keep making the same mistakes.
The fact that there's all this momentous stuff happening in the game right now, but if you're a new player you have no way to catch up on that story (except watching old UA-cam videos or reading the timeline in game) is pretty tragic.
Here's a relevant milestone that deserves to be discussed. The Second Dream quest in Warframe turned 8 years old this past December. That makes it older than Destiny 2. It's still in Warframe, fully replayable, and still blowing the minds of newbies encountering it. I know, because I'm seeing more new people every day reaching it and being completely shocked and thrilled and HOOKED by what it does, both from a story perspective and a gameplay system perspective.
NOTHING in Destiny, across the entire franchise, has the type of emotional gravitas and staying power that you can tell a newbie "yo, can't wait till you reach THIS moment...I won't spoil it, but man oh man, that's gonna just kill you, lemme know when you get there." Not a single thing. Yet, one of the biggest questions a new Warframe player will get is "have you done Second Dream yet."
That should tell you ALL you need to know about how irreversible the damage has been via the content vault. I don't want to hear anymore "tech issue" excuses. The content they've released since the vaulting has mostly been duds. It has NOT been worth what they've done to this game pulling up tracks as they travel down them, just so they can fart out "more" seasonal bullcrap...which has, unfortunately, carried some of the biggest story beats...only to dump them into the Timeline when the seasons get removed.
Bungie has learned literally nothing across this game's life, and frankly, the game suffering should entirely be expected. I can't wait until more people dive off this sinking ship.
I really wish I could experience what you are describing in Warframe. I played a bit years ago, but every time I try to play again, I'm so lost on what to do. IIRC, I am stuck in a grindy quest from when I originally played that requires going to a planet I don't have access to yet. I have to collect some do-dads off of a planet I can access, but when I do a mission that gives the highest drop chance, I come away with like 3 of the 20 something I need.
Had some guys from a Destiny discord server try to get me back into Warframe, but they wouldn't help me figure out how to jump through that hoop, so I quit playing again.
@@DUKEzors Well, the game now has full cross play, so regardless of what platform you're on, you have lots more people to help. I'm willing to accompany you personally if you're up for it, but for now, I'll see if I can offer a bit of insight...
As for the story progression, the game has actually gone through a bunch of changes on that front VERY recently.
1) They've restructured which quests are considered "main," so some of the more frustrating quests, like "collecting do-dads" ones, are mostly optional and can be done any other time.
2) To that end, they've removed Mastery Rank as a prerequisite from main story quests, which means you don't have to grind mindlessly just to unlock the next quest step.
3) They've significantly reduced the menial tasks to complete the Junctions between planets, making your trip around the star chart WAY faster and only held back by your actual power.
4) To that end, the rewards from completing those Junctions have been improved to get you more things you'll need to progress
5) There's a there's a doohickey at the top of the screen while in your Orbiter called the Tenno Guide, which if clicked on usually sends you to the next major quest or objective you should be working on.
That's not to say there isn't any grinding to progress, this type of game, there obviously is. However, it's a lot more optional and only some remains in the actual main line of quests.
As I said, I'd be happy to explain more and guru if you're up to giving it another try. Especially if you haven't hit the major quest milestones and breakthroughs, which typically make the whole experience worth the time.
This is quite comparable to the Heavensward first expansion of FFXIV, people come into the base game and often find the story under-engaging in that part , it is not as well paced or thematic, but for those that listen to the over and over given advice to : wait until Heavensward,it gets better.
And then they do and most keep going, rare is the person I hear being unimpressed after delving into the first expansion.
Destiny and FFXIV are about the same age, but the reason why destiny has largely failed, while FFXIV has had success after success, and made mostly well received improvements every time is down to honestly I feel superior design philosophy.
There are three people of whom the names come up when talking about the game, Game Director Naoki "Yoshi-P" Yoshida , the Musical director Masayoshi Soken, and Natsuko Ishikawa , narrative lead who has been responsible and the brains behind some of the greatest stories and side quests in FFXIV.
In particular from the beginning Yoshi-P has had a vision of what FFXIV should be, to the point where he looked at the failure that the game was in the beginning before realm reborn and said that they needed to burn it to ground and make it anew in the remade version A Realm Reborn .
He did this because he recognized the game could not be salvaged as it was , which is the opposite of what Destiny's lead developers such as Luke Smith and now Joe Blackburn have done time and time again .
Destiny has never known stability of any kind and never had a consistent vision, and the inability to pick a lane , is it a borderlands style looter shooter or a MMORPG with a FPS aesthetic? , and insisting on the flawed middle ground that is live service gaming, is why despite being probably the longest lived of all Live service games it is going to end up on the ash heap of gaming history and Bungie consumed by Sony.
@@RichterfanReborn89Actually, for most new players, ARR's content without knowing about the later expansions is fine. It's what I've heard from most casual players experiencing final fantasy for the first time, sans dialogue. It doesn't make it any less of a slog to get through, but it's more comparable to a lot of mmo's at the time ARR was made.
As a person who played ARR during Heavensward's release, the base game being quaint made the onboarding of the game a lot easier. More than I can say for any of Destiny's base games.
It's wild how much Destiny has actually tried to copy Warframe in many aspects, yet ended up doing it worse.
I just want the stuff i paid for back, man!
So you can never play it? I mean, I get it. We paid for it. But I could never get anyone to do any of the old raids with me and those planets were mostly just neglected.
You and 95% of the playerbase didn't do any of that content other than maybe once a year.
But also we couldn't have had a 1tb game. Ok, it wouldn't be 1tb but it would, by now, have been what, north of 500gb?
@@Real28Look at the % of players who have completed a GrandMaster Nightfall. Should we just remove GMs from the game?
@@Real28i was literally going to say this. like be fr, you’re NOT going back to play on mercury if it was still in the game.
@@quietisonlineYou might not, but a new player who doesn’t want to watch hours of content to understand the story may play it. Why couldn’t we have download options like Call of Duty does? If you just want Zombies, you can download only Zombies.
@@quietisonlineI would def go on mars though. Loved escalation protocol.
There is a disconnect between the DCV & the seasonal model.
You have the design direction of D2 being in a "single, evolving world", yet that notion was more true for D1 than it ever was for D2:
In D1, at least the older Strikes for example got updated alongside expansion releases. In D2, so far only Lake of Shadows & Arms Dealer got updated, & that was just recently for Lightfall.
There's still plenty of narratively neglected content, like Cayde or Rasputin still being alive across multiple Vanguard Ops, or the game talking about "House of Devils" while the Fallen are still wearing D2 vanilla's "House of Dusk" colors, or old lingering scannables in the Tower with our Ghost talking about Eva Levante as if we haven't seen her since Red War, etc.
Then you have weird anomalies like Cayde's monument in the Tower, which plays dialog of NPCs paying respect to Cayde, as a reward for reaching certain Guardian Ranks, which is a system implemented as a guideline for new players, so the point of that is mismatched anyway.
& at some point, you had free content, where Cayde was still alive, & free content where the game acknowledges that Cayde's dead, & then the Forsaken campaign,, where Cayde dies.
The narrative access points in regards to the timeline of the story is so inconsistent for new players; & that worsened with the decision to have the seasons effectively tell stories that flow from annual expansion to annual expansion, on a content model that leaves by the launch of the next expansion. So now you got annual story gaps by design.
Another reason why that's bad is because of the different paywall tiers: If the most recent development of a storyline is cheaper than a previous point of that storyline, because of it being in an expansion, then you're unfortunately signaling misaligned purchase priorities to the new players.
The "New Light" tutorial was also never meant for new players; it was meant to invoke nostalgia for D1 veterans about the Cosmodrome.
But the newer content that Bungie's successful in cranking out, are mostly variants of the same thing now. They are new initially, yes, but then multiple variants are added, & by the end you're just as burned out on them, as with the old Strikes. I'd rather have different Battlegrounds for example, than multiple variants of the same Battleground; they're mostly just environmentally different.
Which is ironic because that's the design philosophy the PVP & Gambit needs: more of the same thing but with different environment, aka maps.
On top of that, those seasonal contents have their dialog updated on a weekly cadence while the story unfolds, while older PvE content are still stuck in time.
Because of that, D2 instead has "multiple, isolated worlds".
To solve the problem?
D2 needs a transformative tutorial, that gets changed & updated every time there's a major story development, or gameplay updates.
Then, the game needs to invest in refreshing older content in between periods of new contents.
The content has been neither designed from the ground up, nor from top down. It's from TOP UP. That's why it's not newbie-friendly. Because of this, the game is an eternal construction site.
Imo it would be fine if they continue vaulting, as long as: 1) the content's been free for longer than it was paywalled. 2) It's not just outdated in gameplay, but also narratively the oldest content; vault content from the back, not from the front, by the end of the release year. Let it shine for a couple of years.
DCV was a cost saving measure. It was never about users or file sizes. Bungie decided there was content they could stop supporting to save money. Combine this with the fact that they did an upgrade to the engine that required assets to be remade and Bungie simply identified things they could delete and get away with. It was never a vault because it wasn't content that was taken out. It was content that was never created after the engine rework.
Mostly true, except the old content being incompatible for extremely minor engine changes (which what was changed doesn't even qualify to be considered an engine change) was such a huge lie people gobbled up. It's still perpetually passed along to this day the notion that we had major engine changes, which is completely false.
@@chrisborges7344are you a bungie employee?
@@chrisborges7344 Can you prove that the removal of content because of the engine update is a lie?
I understood the reasoning behind the removal because of the engine update, but no word on any of it returning anytime soon.
Maybe the reason Bungie hasn't said anything is because they probably don't have anything worthy to say, especially after the layoffs back in October.
It’s fundamentally the same engine though, is it not? So why would it entail any of that, rather than just being easier and more cost-effective to just leave it in?
Surely they didn’t rebuild parts of the leviathan for Season of the Haunted, and Titan for Season of the Deep, just to take them back out again?
@@GetGwapThisYearyou answered your own question they did parts not the entire thing.
6:30 if buying isnt owning, piracy isnt theft. People have been saying this in the case of ubisoft and i think it applies here pretty well.
They should have done it like the master chief collection. Make it so u install what u want but it has a file size cap enforced so u choose what u do/don’t want to have access to and their engine doesn’t go over that limit.
Then in game it just greys out the things u haven’t got installed.
Ideally anyway.
I get their engine lighting doesn’t work with old stuff ect so they’d have to remake everything to work but that is kinda what they promised it was gonna be anyway.
doesnt matter if the lighting or whatever doesnt work. literally all they had to do was let us install it in its released state before they removed it from servers. but what it really is, is that they deleted all their shit they had saved for it and now they cant. then activision considered the work they did for it their property so they had to get rid of all the shit up until their split. everything since then is still in the game.
they didnt want to pay to be able to keep it and so they take it from the people that bought it. i hope their next game fails
@kunjunction1 now that they are under sony they will def fail and I'll be happy they ran a great franchise into the ground and pissed on it all because of greed
@@TheDude8008S Why would they definitely fail under Sony? As someone who doesn’t like Sony cause I think they r incredibly anti consumer with their practises aka exclusives and the fact they also were a huge reason why crossplay in games wasn’t a thing for absolutely ages. I can see the value in the things they make. Bungie have always been the downfall of Bungie EXCEPT ONE TIME when activision stepped in and rebooted Destiny 1 and got Marty Odonneled fired (lead composer) and Jason Jones (lead writer) so mad that he resigned, both of which were a huge part of making halo so great. Bungie staff themselves have said lightfall was all Bungie upper managements fault, none of them so far had any issues with Sony.
Taken King saved the franchise and ever since then it was going down hill except for Witch Queen (don’t even get me started on forsaken and why I think it’s overated asf).
I just want the Almighty mission back!
What brought me to D2 was the story. The Destiny Content Vault broke that and quite frankly, the only reason I hang around is that I want to see how the story ends.
Same here. I have been playing Destiny since the month D1 released, and despite the state of the game ,I was enraptured by the story and the mythos of the world. That all changed since the release of Lightfall. That coupled with the implementation of the DCV killed my motivation to play this game. I am just waiting to buy and play the Final Shape so that I can at least have closure
Same, I just need closure in this story. If they don't reverse all their stupid decisions with DCV, this game literally will be dead.
I’m wondering how many of us Old Lights(Red War vet here) are sticking around solely to see how this ends. And then how many of us will drop this game the minute we find out.
As a former Destiny 2 player I have thoughts on this as the "Content Vault" and "sunsetting" systems were the two big red flags that made me drop the game. I dropped D2 after the announcement of the content vault for the simple reasons that I had already lived through a game doing the "disposable content" model and I had already put more time into a game that had firmly committed to NOT throwing out it's old content.
The first game is the MMORPG Guild Wars 2. As a long time fan of the Guild Wars series I was there from the pre-order early access. During the early days of the game it was unclear what form new content would take for the game as the devs were noncommittal to the idea of traditional expansions. For the first year and a half of the game's life they released what is known as "Living World" updates where a new piece of content would be added to the game for around a month then be replaced with another piece of Living World content a month or so latter. While the quality of these updates got better and better as time went on the story immediately suffered as just not being able to play for that stretch of time meant you missed out, never mind new players joining up late. After the first "Season" of the Living World they changed future updates to be permanent replayable additions to the game, but the absence of season 1 which introduced many mainstay characters to the story was a serious stumbling block for new players for years afterwards.
TLDR: Guild Wars 2's "Living World Season 1" was unsustainable FOMO and left a huge hole in the story for nearly a decade after its release.
The second game is Warframe, a game often compared to Destiny throughout both game's lives. For my part both games are great in their own ways but, in this at least, Warframe is superior as not only has it continuously added new content atop its now decade deep reserves, but has continuously updated numerous aspects of the game. Improved graphics, reworks to older equipment and game modes, all the while maintaining a file size that is a fraction of Destiny 2 even with the Destiny Content Vault continuously severing huge swaths of it's file size. It was genuinely refreshing to return to Warframe and experience all the new content that was added while I was mainly playing Destiny 2 in comparison to the increasingly steep Light Level grind and FOMO of seasonal activities and season pass rewards.
TLDR: Warframe proves it's not impossible to maintain a long term Live Service game with all of its content and features and not even requiring a dedicated hard drive for it.
Nailed it. Im one of the many vets whose left and returned to FF14. The difference in content philosophy is night and day. Everything in FF14 other than holiday events is evergreen, meaning it's there for players to pick right back up and continue where they left off. No fomo. No pressure. I'm honestly sad I left after beating Endwalkers comapign and dedicating my time to Destiny 2 fulltime with Witch Queens release. D2 fomo design is what kept me coming back, and now I know to never let it happen again. I'll finish the fight and the story of Destiny 2 by watching Esoterrik playthrough s and listening to Myelin lore vids while enjoying playing Dawntrail. Cheaper both price and time wise.
I like your framing: I'm not falling for FOMO design again. This was what burned me out, in the end-- knowing it was all going to go away.
But You Have To Pay A Subscription To Play It. If You Don't You Can't Play.
@@whitetiger0739 D2 ain't truly free if you want to experience a fully working game. With annual expacs, seasonal BPs, and Dungeon DLC, it comes out to more than the $15 a month for the true mmo
Yeah Bungie even hired behavioral psychologists in the past to help them design a reward system that would make players come back to play every single week.
All the dmg Bungie did to the game, community should unite, cancel FS preorders and on release day play some other game. Let the player count be zero on June 4. Let's play other games for a month or two.
I can guarantee that by September the Eververse store will accept Bright Dust on every single purchase, Forsaken will return and bugs will be fixed.
@@whitetiger0739 And what, pray tell, are seasons in Destiny 2? They are just subscriptions, but slightly repackaged. Hell, you don't even get to keep enjoying them after paying for them. I get the reticence to pay yet another subscription fee, especially with lots of other media turning to the model, but D2 has effectively been doing subscriptions for a long time.
ive never thought before that they should have done a "Destiny 3" but looking at this now it would have been a great way to start fresh with new content and let new players still play through the previous games content to catch up on story
Been saying it since Beyond Light. The looming monster at the door was clear when they basically admitted that Destiny 2 was never meant to be developed like this. It can only be stretched so thin before it begins to tear. D3 is necessary for this franchise’s survival.
Bungie wouldn't have needed a DCV if they simply "closed" D2 at Shadowkeep and release everything since Beyond Light as a separate game - yeah, a proper Destiny 3 - even if the base game barely had any upgrades other than just new content. I will die on that hill forever.
100% my thought process as well. I mean who would have thought when you sign a contract to make 3 games that would span 10 years, then maybe the fundamental design of your game was that it wasn’t meant to last 6 years and was expected to have the same shelf life as the previous game of 3 years (conveniently a year before they were forced to vault)
Why has it taken this long for D2 content creators to talk about how BAD vaulting content was. I feel like most of us were screaming this from the mountain top when it happened and we were ignored. The fact people believed anything Bungie was saying about the reasons behind the vault is sad to me.
Ikr I still remember the amount of bungie Shilling that happened during that era of the game. If only we truly thought about the long term of the game…
This , every content creator was selling the DCV and most of my friends and me were saying that the DCV was shit.
@@Grassdia Funny thing - People were talking about how the game would turn out exactly as it is right now when vaulting was introduced. Numerous people were saying it but they were drowned out by the massive yt channels that were shilling for bungie.
One of the things that was pretty annoying to me is they said originally that seasons would be around for a year before being removed but what they meant was the year of the expansion. It would also be easier to sell people on it if they actually got to keep a season for a whole year vs the last season of an expansion which you only get while it's the current season then the new expansion drops and it gets deleted.
Just reading that is convoluted I didn’t even finish the comment.
Bungie have not been knowing what to do with Destiny since destiny 1 development.
It wasn't so much the vaulted content as the full AAA price expansions that turned my friends off. Then, having to buy partially vaulted content was a stick in the eye.
More like a knife instead of a stick, if you ask me.
You know what I want back? The amazing story missions what happened to daily story missions? What if we brought back all the past campaigns threw something similar?
A little note in case ya’ll forgot, destiny 2 beyond light and all things ahead was supposed to be destiny 3, now destiny 2 is destiny 3 just with the number 2 still there, all the original content from d2 (that matters at the very least) is gone. It seems like bungie didn’t want the players to stay with d2 in case d3 flopped, so they shredded most of the content from d2 and replaced it with content that was supposed to be for d3. It’s a manipulative tactic, ensuring we had nowhere to fall back to we either played the garbage they released, or quit the game, and they made the game live service to utilize fomo to ensure we wouldn’t quit or at the very least it would be difficult for us to quit.
I'm no developer but my solution would be to have the latest version of destiny be the trimmed down current seasons, campaign & core modes that are actively worked on. But along with current stuff have previous seasons, campaigns, raids, or years be individually purchasable and downloadable at a cheaper price. All that older content doesn't have to be in active rotations, just be accessible to solos and parties. Also, I would make it extremely clear to new players in some sort of menu the order the content released.
My friend bought me beyond light, I even enjoyed the game a bit, but after I found out about vaulting, I asked him to never buy me anything from bungie again, dropped the game, and went to go play Warframe because it does everything better.
I think another aspect people forget about for the DCV is the load times. It would literally take 5 minutes+ to load into an area of the game. Strike Playlist were spent watching your ship nearly as long as the strike was. My friends and I would literally go make sandwiches between areas and come back to still be waiting. After the dcv we joked that we'd be losing weight due to the reduction in sandwiches.
We're still fat.
Yoo 😂
I've been playing Destiny since year one and I've never seen load times long enough to go to the kitchen and make anything. I think you were just high...or full of shit.
That was mostly because before series x and ps5 all console were on slow ass HDD before going to SSD's, because as soon as i played the PC version versus ps4pro the loading times were really quick and that was even up untill forsakken before any vaulting
The argument that no one played the old content, so its okay for it to be removed, isn't very valid to me. There wasn't a Legendary Campaign option back then. If you wanted to replay anything, you had to DELETE YOUR CHARACTER. So of course no one was playing it.
I was lucky that Persona 5 came out after I decided to finally quit Destiny after the sunsetting and stasis (which ruined pve and pvp for me respectively).
After that was bouncing around other rpgs and finally during the pandemic tried FFXIV.
It’s amazing that year 1 content is still there for you to play. They even go back in and make qol changes for it to go smoother. I know about the ‘free until X’ meme, but it really helps in this case.
I really don’t know why developers just lean into milking their players instead of taking care of them for the long term once you have them.
An example was I wasn’t playing ffxiv for 6 months but never cancelled my sub. And I was buying cosmetics once they were on sale.
The rub comes when we're paying for "old content" multiple times. I mean Bungie brings entire raids back like Crota's End to keep the player base occupied. Now I've paid for it twice. A few mechanics changes does not a new raid make. The "new" content has been drying up for years, which just adds to the fatigue of veteran players. I had no idea how bad Bungie was fumbling the ball with new players, but again, mismanaged.
I think they have finally realised that the +1 delivery of story and content is unsustainable, and this is evident in their move to supplemental 'episodes' with side stories. The trouble is, unlike other games like FF14, SWTOR etc. there is no base story to branch from in the current version of Destiny 2. If you weren't there, you just missed out. New players will always feel like they have immediately missed something, unless they have some whole new baseline in Final Shape that provides a story base and skeleton for game fundamentals for which new players to jump in. The stain of having stuff removed will never be washed away for veteran players. This problem is never going to be fixed in Destiny '2' unless the Final Shape turns out to be basically an entirely new base game. Even if that were to occur (which I doubt), they should really consider a name change anyway, purely to correct the branding that many outsiders will never touch in its current state.
I still don't understand why they couldn't have made the old stuff to be an option to download and install certain expansions. That way if i wanted all the content on my hard drive at once that's my decision if it takes all my available space and totals 600GB. Call of duty does this now to where if i don't want the campaign but do want warzone and multiplayer i can uninstall the campaign only to save space. Of course it'd be nearly impossible to matchmake 6 player activity like sun dial but at least we'd still have the content we paid for and could still play the older campaigns like Red War and saving Saint 14. Personally i'd just like to have the option. Just give me back Whisper and outbreak exotic missions and the old raids and I'd be happy, maybe throw few those old strikes in there too. I'd love to be able to go run Hollowed Lair, Garden world, Savathun's Song i miss those old strikes and really kicking myself in the arse for not trying them when they were Grandmaster's.
Not being able to have the game accept new players to play the story and progression of the game from the beginning IS a major reason the game is dying.
FFXIV allows you to experience the entire game. I went back and played it for the first time a couple years back. I would have NEVER bothered if they had a content vault.
If I could make a 4th character and experience the destiny 2 story from the beginning with new incentives or just to play it I probably would. I can’t do that.
There is one comment that everyone uses that really bugs me about the solution to dcv.
"I'm not a developer" working in IT Support for near 20 years and I've learnt this one fact.
There is always a technical solution but it's down to only 2 things to stop the solutionbeing implemented.
1, skill level of staff.
2, how much money the company is willing to spend on the solution.
The solution is always there but without skill level then no matter how much money you throw at it, the people can't get it done.
Similar, if the devs are skilled and can do it but the company won't spend the money then it won't get fixed.
It is as simple as that.
I think you miss one of the biggest issues with the DCV. Namely, the entire narrative was built on a lie. Bungie claimed they didn’t have the resources to make new content for Destiny and maintain the old at the same time. In reality, they were actively stripping developers and resources away from Destiny and moving them to Marathon and their other projects. Only half the studio is working on Destiny at this point, and the current team is still smaller than the team that worked on Shadowkeep, and this is after over three years of heavy hiring for Destiny specifically and them ‘rebuilding’ various teams. The DCV was the beginning of the end because it was when Destiny stopped being their focus and the game turned into a minimum viable product that only existed to serve as a cash cow to finance Bungie’s executives dreams of becoming a major publisher.
The DCV was ALWAYS about old consoles. They can't afford to drop PS4/Xbox One in favor of the current gen exclusively.
I love how they said they'd return the vaulted stuff upgraded, but when it came back it was available for a limited time in limited quantity at an extra charge. That was the point where they lost me as a preorder customer and dedicated player. Where they lost me completely was when the layoffs happened, because that confirmed everything I had been suspecting. Mind you I'd been playing since launch.
I will never ever buy a Bungee game, ever. Because of their obstinate decision not to release Destiny 3, they deleted the game I paid good money for (full price at release, full price on all extensions until the one where Cade died). F--- you and your greed Bungie!
When Bungie decided to start vaulting old paid content, it was the nail of death for me. If I pay for a content then it's not my job to play it just right there and then. Maybe I am burnt out and want to return in a few years. Can't do that. So then what am I paying or playing the game for? Since Bungie won't respect my money and my time, why should I respect their game? I won't, and so I have not played Destiny 2 in years and plan to never play it again.
I am a sofrare developer myself and while i can somewhat understand their technical reasoning, I know there could've been a bunch of better ways to do it. You do not have to store all the relevant data to the server, they could've made it modular and fragment it. They could have also made it so that the game has optional downloadable files with all the old content that players could then download, play, experience and remove if they felt like their game folder was becoming too large. Sure it was economical and from a maintainability perspective cheapest this way but cheapest does not always translate to best in quality.
It's been a long time, but go back and watch pathway out of Darkness which was the first true look at Destiny. The studio knew at the time they were going to be adding to and growing their game (if it was profitable) for years to come. But as we learned from the court filings this was always a lie, Bungie knew they were going to make a game make DLC then drop the game to start all over and they planed on doing that three times. Fast Forward Destiny 2 has existed far longer then it was ever expected to, from the original conception The Final Shape is supposed to be the last DLC for Destiny 3. From the start Destiny was never meant to grown and expanded, it was meant to be dropped when it's development life spawn was reached and a new game was sold in its place.
Content vaulting is a product of the game that always intend to be disposable but Bungie never have the money needed to replace the game they had so instead of disposing of their game all at once they have to dispose of it piece by piece by piece.
Y'all took this long to see the play. I enjoy Vog and D2 destroyed everything I had worked towards and enjoyed and gutted I left when the ever verse arrived. After that point they killed cayde took my weapons destroyed the tower Gary was a joke. I went back to playing snap and 21.
It is 100% too little too late for Destiny. The brand name is poison to anyone that hasn't already been invested, there have just been way too many controversies over the past decade. The vast majority of people I know who did play D2 at launch refuse to touch it anymore. Even when Witch Queen and such was available for free on Epic, the damage had already been done and nobody I knew was interested anymore.
they fucked up when they vaulted content instead of just making d3. could have literally been the new light bs. keep d2 so new players and old can still play and catch up. but make everything transferrable so the veterans can do all the new stuff on d3. i left for a year and cant really jump in without getting lightfall, but i dont feel like paying them money after all the layoffs.
Filter out all the crappy campaign missions where Rohan died etc and give us back all our strikes, maps etc. The ritual activities should never have had things vaulted cos they’re the replayability of the game
They should bring back the time warp on mercury and use that to go back and "fix" issues in the past. This way, the content vault is opened, people can choose which adventures or story missions they wanna try, and it could be a new farm finder for the community
That would be all well and good but don't forget mercury no longer exists.
@ImperialGuardsman2 IMO they should:
1) Have Osiris on Neptune, messing around with strand. While gathering a better understanding of it, he becomes one with strand, thanks to exposure to the veil in his post-guardian state.
2) Using strand, he will see that the threads of strand are like the threads of time. They have always been there, and up until the witness appeared, always continued on.
3) Osiris becomes a "Time Tangle" and we thread grab him into the past. The whole season is us going from time period to time period, the events of destiny 1 all the way back to destiny 2 current time.
4) In the past, we time skip to a period when Mercury is still present, and we bring back the 1 man capable of rebuilding a time warp machine because he has done nothing but study them...and Osiris.
BROTHER FUCKING VANCE!
Yeah, the second they announced they'd be removing content from the game, content you can have paid for, that was when I was done with Bungie.
I think the key is in the fact that Live Service Games unlike MMOs such as WoW and FFXIV are made with an I guess you could say expiry date in mind and well D2 is way past said Expiry Date. Like Bungie no doubt were fully aware of this at the end of Shadowkeep being left with 3 choices the DCV, Destiny 3 or a Destiny MMO and took what they deemed the safest option of well the DCV not wanting to risk a repeat of D2's launch with a D3 or face the extreme costs, time and risks associated with making an MMO.
DCV is the reason I am not buying Final shape. Just scummy what bungo did, cant support them anymore.
Makes me glad people have finally stopped worshipping Bungie and destiny 2 like a cult 😂
I'm glad people have decided to talk about the dcv now. I've been complaining about it for years but it seemed like I was always rebuttled with "but look at the QoL improvements! “ like which ones? Ones that should be BOG standard but took wayyyy too long didn't really add much? Faster load in the tower? Lighting? Most areas I go to now have lighting bugs. And as for the storage thing, make it optional. If you've the space for ALL of d2, here's the pack for it. But yes yes it takes development time and blah blah. That apparently not even 3.6 billion can take care of a game anymore. I think it is too little too late. I feel like unless they start blowing us away with into the light, and then with tfs, ppl will play tfs then delete destiny for good. With no want for a 3quel. One way of blowing us away is restoring to the best of their ability the old areas imo. And not like season of deep, where we got titan back, technically. No I mean actually back. Redo old adventures and missions so that new players get the story understood and vets can enjoy old content again. D1 is great in this regard because any and all missions are available when YOU want to play them.
it was getting too disney marvel for me anyways. lots of awful stories. game is totally full of addicted fps shooters now.
What i dont get about the content vault is why do MMOs that have been out for decades not have issues with all their content but destiny 2 did?
I had this exact issue with a friend of mine. I was speaking about the game and he asked about getting into it and I started trying to explain all the things you would need to know in the storyline so he wouldn't be confused and he decided to just not even bother since he would never actually get to play all of these experiences
dude am just getting into destiny 2 this fucking suck the too much content excuse is a new one for me, like what other game has this problem? like old ass 10 year old online games with a bunch of content what other game does this?. the only one having this "issue" is density 2 i don't get it. on top of that seasons which continue the story kinda, from what I've seen goes away too? do they give a f about new players at all? are they even thinking about what will the new player experience look like? am playing new light rn, lost af, then i will play lightfall, lost af(story wise) then the final shape too, like i wont have any connection with the story since i missed it all even tho am playing the game rn, like wtf dude lmaoo
They’re actually just a scummy fomo based company. Shit is fucking disgusting. They remove shit on purpose to force people to buy their new slop since there’s nothing to do
Considering there's games that have the option to download extra content, like textures, extra story, etc, there's no excuse for the DCV regarding memory. Bungie could easily add all past expansions in a drop down menu on steam for what you want and don't want installed.
Seriously there have been multiple people anywhere from how you so videos like yourself all the way to V-tubers like SmugAlana for example I was watching a while back the Destiny State of the Game and they all as well as multitude of people asking the same thing not involved with D2.
"How is this legal?"
I am not sure they have that in the ToS or not, (seriously I ask any gamer out there that takes the time to read that) but that is still a good question.
How's about publishing as OFFLINE CONTENT (and on an AS IS basis) all the D2 Legacy campaigns and stuff? A freebie for those who already 'own' (as in paid for) it, and at a discount price for a 'collectors edition' for those who never played it?
Elder Scrolls Online is a good example of how to do it properly.
All they had to do was make Destiny 3. Literally wasn’t hard
The content vault is a strange precedent, because other media companies have added and removed media, like music streaming or movies. The issue is that you can find that content elsewhere. If a game company - that owns the product they sell you to _use_ - removes that content, you can't get it anywhere else. This is almost like a solution for corporations to deal with piracy, ie put your content behind a lock of using the medium of something like a game to access certain content that would otherwise not work, or exist, without the game and servers to run it. Imagine the only way to watch movies is to load up a software from a corporation that breaks the media, or does not work, unless you use it in the software, using it's own proprietary code. That would be awful. But that's essentially what Bungie did.
You paid for the service to let you play the game, and agreed to let Bungie take that away at anytime, and you can't pirate or hack that. I'm honestly surprised more corporations haven't done this, already. On the other hand, I guess it also shows that this can lead to bad profit margins, as if your product is only available in one place and you remove access, people will no longer want to buy/support that product on that platform. Seems like Bungie shot themselves in the foot.
The Comparison with the Movies on Netflix is a poor comparison because netflix is a distirbutor and not a creator in that sense. If a movie is gone from Netflix I can probably watch it in other streaming services or buy it digitally or as a DVD/Blueray out there somewhere.
It would be similiar to a game being not anymore on GOG but then you can buy it at steam, epic store (lol) or a physical copy from Game Stop etc..
When Bungie removes its own expansions they are *gone*. Forever vanished from the face of the earth.
I bought the Forsaken bundle without Forsaken…lol
What I would give to replay red war again.
Paul Tassi loves double dipping and all it does is make me eye roll
Destiny 2 is burning up, meanwhile Warframe is launching on iPhone.
I don't know why but this sent me
It's crazy is I paid for that content and they deleted it
As soon as Bungie started making such drastic changes to the core systems of game play (how classes work) but even more so, how materials work, what materials were available and the like, we were NEVER seeing that old content again. The idea that any of that stuff would somehow be updated to work with the new systems was just a pipe dream. Both from a basic technical point of view and mechanical (the maps, enemies, actual POINT of doing the activities there were designed with certain way of playing in mind) it just doesn't make sense that they would ever put the manpower into trying to change all of it where there are things that just wouldn't work balance wise, etc. Sure you could argue technically new lights could have been put on a track to just not have the new stuff until they played through to new, but that would force them out of the current game and would not solve the issue of taking the veterans back to that content with the state of the game and how things function now. I think a solution could have been found and thing planned for from the beginning, but it seems like Bungie came up with the vault to try to solve a problem they were having - but then later had other problems they needed to solve (how to keep the game play fresh and dynamic) and the solutions were not compatible with each other.
I just want the Red War campaign back 😢
Add sunsetting weapons. Never cool
What came close to getting this long time veteran to quit was when Bungie took things away and then turned around and said earn it again. My specific example was getting Dreaming City armor and then cleaning each piece with Transcendent Blessings. Some that I did were more difficult than others. Gear got "partially" sunset when the 2.0 versions came back around. Would not have been that big a deal if able to break down old gear and apply blessings to new ones. Nope.... Just do what you did again. Another example...... spend tons of resources on a Tribute Hall/shooting gallery. Oh .... gone. Had a good friend ask maybe a month ago about getting into "Destiny 2." Had to break it down that able to play small fraction of things for free but it is quite expensive if intend to play newer things. Maybe if Bungie left a single stripped down campaign which would lead from start to current day, story would not be so fragmented and confusing.
Call me old fashioned but, but if I purchase a product, I want to keep it.
I LOVE replaying old games. I still play halo, Bioshock, dark souls, Jedi Knight, and the old X-wing games. I regularly replay games, and when I can’t go relive the games I like, it saddens me deeply… this situation hurts particularly because Destiny is my favorite shooter fantasy. Games are an art. Games are an experience! We deserve to be able to go back and experience those moments again.
This is why i still play destiny 1.
I think the amount of people making excuses for Bungie taking away the expansions WE paid for is what really frustrates me. Sorry but deleting paid content isn't justifiable.
At this point, I just want the game I paid for ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
the fact they brought back those SHITTY vex leaf covered weapons instead of black armory or ANYTHING else that's been good was a pea brained idea. bungie is trash dev, lazy, and just overall NOT GOOD. they have talent, and can make good stuff. they just dont.
It's funny how only destiny people can defend this garbage of losing hundreds of dollars in paid for dlc with such lame excuses like it takes so much space... Like fucking extra drives don't exist... Even worst when it's a UA-camr making all that easy money just for uploading videos of a game. 😆 Meanwhile I can't think of many games deleting so much content for the same lame reasons.. ff14 has the entire base game, story, dungeons, and so on all there.
You nailed it. I’m ready for a Destiny 3 hard reset, or just moving on. I’m a complete adult to this game and damn straight I would pay a subscription service if that gave me steady, quality content, but Bungie is seemingly kinda driving this jump ship into the ground. Oh well…I’ll still listen to DCP. Keep up the great content, Y’all🤘🤓
I just got a friend of mine into Destiny. I paid for half of her expansions and her girlfriend paid for the other half and I can tell you without literally 3 people walking her through everything she needed to get and everything she needed to know it would have been impossible for her to get into this game as a new player. The DCV has ruined Destiny's ability to grow
%100 - that was the dagger for me. Big time player here and I eventually quit. Tried to come backc twice, but it didn't work for me, it's not the game, it's the business model for me, and I'll never be ok with a game that doesn't respect my time.
I think Bungie is on a Destiny 2 fatigue and are not at all hyped about this game anymore. They have not fixed stability issues, loading issues, new content, vault space until before TFS, and people are leaving in droves due to the next expansion being delayed with no new content. I’m still around to do the basics but it’s getting repetitive and that’s something I dread in Destiny.
sunsetting and this content vault was the final nail in the coffin for me. The story and the lore is really fun and expansive, yet bungie made the conscious decision to make it even harder to experience it than it already was. Stopped playing after Season of Dawn and still dont regret that decision
these moaning minutes have become my favorite stuff on your channel. very refreshing to hear you as you are
Nah it is reversable damage as in just clean up your game and use that dern timeline to let players access old content. What needs fixing is the entire new player "onboarding". Signed a new player.
They embraced disposable content. Content in Destiny for the past few years (and maybe since the beginning, depending how cynical you're being) consists of new places to shoot enemies in. The focus went completely on creating more and more disposable content instead of adding depth to the game, and as a result, we ended up with a game that is very much showing its age to us veteran players. It was also a capitulation and acceptance of having a mediocre story. No self-respecting narrative would extrude its first half so thoroughly from itself.
The onboarding issue is personally the biggest issue with the DCV. Me as a player who got into destiny 2 in season of opulence just wants to be able to get a new player in. Cuz the story of destiny is incredible. I still to this day almost wish the game could’ve just been a single player/coop experience with the focus being the story. Not a live service.
Imagine putting out a live service game on a dogshit engine, vaulting content, never bringing it back, and then wondering why your playerbase is dying