I really wanted to see what you guys thought about this topic, and Prometheus in general. Personally, I think it's a shame Ridley thought the main complaint about Prometheus was the lack of Aliens when clearly that wasn't the case.
+TheShadowInTheMask not so much dumb down as give them eye candy to talk about while the more Sophisticated viewers focus on the real story with David.
I don't know, the xenomorph indirectly were interesting. I stress indirectly because its basically the perfect killer; however the story, characters, symbolism, and themes around it were interesting. Religious undertones of deamons in the prequel movies (judging the movie poster with the Dante-esque stone relief)? And might very well be a future Frankenstein's monster if what Ridley said was true in an interview? Haven't seen Alien: Covenant yet. Maybe it isn't a good Alien movie either? As with Alien and Aliens, as a successful film it hinged on the directing, interesting xenomorph stuff, and cast (between the tension filled/tired truckers and highly charismatic/memorable marines). Alien 3 and Alien 4 were faulted for not having one or two of those three reasons. Prometheus had Micheal Fassbender though... but he alone couldn't carry Prometheus and it's probably the same with Alien: Covenant? I don't know... still secretly hoping its good after having lowered the bar a bit, seeing it on the 19th.
Yeah, ever since I saw Alien back in the 80s I wanted to know more about the Space Jockey and the engineers... The Xenos add the horror piece, but I want explanations on who the engineers are/were.
I personally think Prometheus should have been the first in a trilogy, Prometheus to set up the new characters and such, the second to show how the aliens were made, ins and outs, with Shau, and the third to link the universes
I really wished he wld hve stayed on the path of Prometheus & kept the title "Paradise" as a 1 word movie heading. The engineers are a brlliantly new idea in dark sci fi that, with ridley's vision wld hve made 4 sme very nice looking movies. Prometheus 2me from the 1st day i saw it became 1 of my fav movies of all time... Like Inception, think while U watch it and conclude what u want until a sequal would've came out. Oh well, money and hollywood makes the movies (literally & figuratively)
I feel like the xenomorph was forced into covenant. it didn't do much to further the story in the film. it just makes a small appearance. it was not intimidating at all. the neomorphs were fresh. but they could of made a much better film if they stuck with the Prometheus storyline more. we could of had a philosophical discussion with Shaw, David and the engineers about creation and why they wanted to kill us. some things could of went down providing action. but now because of some bitching fans, we are stuck with an inconsistent mess of a film ( by the way I still enjoyed covenant, but it was messy)
Came here to type pretty much the same thing. I'm very disappointed in the direction it took, but it's not a 'bad' movie, but the sequel had potential for more depth and went the opposite direction. Also, I'm salty about Shaw's death, I think I liked her character even more than Ripley.
Her death doesn't even make sense. David said he loved her. So why did he experiment on her? Had so much more potential and her end felt like a copp out
I like to agree with a theory that David used Shaw's reproductive system to create and mutate xeno eggs (or at least their earliest form). That would explain why he bothered to cut her open and would at least give some meaning to her death.
Seriously, they didn't even explain it, unless that was another unfortunate cut like those in Prometheus. If he found out she still carried the infection and this was his way of extending her life, I could understand, David probably has a few short circuits after his ordeal. I just have the bitter taste of disappointment.
Itttt was definitely with the fanboys screaming to Fox Studios about not enough Xeno evenothough we got the Murals, Trilobite, Deacon etc and the LOST writing is what torpedoed it. Now we have the generic monster mash that is Covenant; No unsolved mysteries, no real surprises, no birds..., no animals...nothing.
Prometheus was profound and resonated with many because it asked questions that many of us would like answered in real life. The Engineers could've been scarier than the xenos because of their disdain for us. Instead they get wiped out by a single robot from earth??? That ending doesn't do them justice. Same with Shaw, after her incredible journey. She dies at the hands of David before meeting the Engineers? Really?? pfft Now David a robot we know everything about, is at the heart of the story line. Ridley missed a trick here. These movies could've been classics, instead he listened to the people that are better off watching Fast 8 and went for more of everything we've already had. Xeno tail slowly through the legs, Xeno blown out the airlock into space. Very disappointing he didnt stick to his guns.
I can't say I'm surprised with the outcome of this movie seeing as the backlash Prometheus got. It seems as though the little fanboys got into Ridleys head. Ridley had his own unique storyline planned for Prometheus and had an idea where he wanted it to go about the engineer home world and learning about them but they bitched and cried because they didn't get their "chestburster" and "xenomorphs" because their brain was too small to comprehend good storytelling. I feel sorry for the true fans of Prometheus who have been let down because of fanboy casuals who probably never even seen the first alien movie. I thought covenant was okay for the first hour of the movie then just stared to decline, special effects were great , but I did not like what they did with Shaw's character either . Prometheus was better , fuck the cancerous fanboys.
I say it's both parties faults. Scott's and fans. The original script for Prometheus was perfect and it gave more information but Scott went somewhere else with it and it kind of came up short to we expected. The fans, my god, just want to see xenomorphs and no story. The story was getting to the xenomorphs and how they came to be but the fans wanted to see them right away. It's just bad from both sides.
You really know nothing about Alien. First, the basis was to scare us with Xenomorphy sexuality, akk rape, birth and all that. Now to aliens in movies, they are evolving. Now you might want to use some comics to defend yourself. But they werent created by Scott or James Cameron, so not quiet canon.
G:D Jones crackpot videos yes! such a shame. The Prologue was so interesting.. watching David aboard the derelict ship hovering over the engineers on their home planet..... there could have been so much more....
I would prefer to have Covenant focus on the "engineers" and their race than rather the Xenomorphs. They seem more of an interesting race than the Xenomorphs that are basically violent creatures by nature.
IKR... But... At least we know they are a super intelligent and advanced race but stupid enough to get annihilated by a robot built by us, an inferior race created by them... That was just plain ridiculous.
But JohnnyZenith even if thats true they are still a super ancient advanced race with 0 defense mechanisms. Unidentified ships being able to just fly-in with no air space clearance and dropping mass destruction weapons is a bit silly, it felt like a scene from a kids movie. If they all had to die it could be done in a more realistic way
It's absolutely the fans fault. Ridley seemed to have a vision on how he wanted the storyline to be and the fans forced him to put aliens in the next film. He listened and now once again he's getting backlash. Alien fans, don't blame no one but yourselves. I still enjoyed the film even tho I was looking forward to Shaw and David looking for the engineers and alien origins. Hopefully awakening and the rest of the films can be how he envisioned it but since covenant released, he's gonna have to rework around his plans and hopefully the fans will stay quiet this time and actually wait for the answers. It's a prequel story for a reason, answers come film by film.
Its not the fans fault that Alien Covenant was so badly written. We (the fans) are not at fault that Ridley couldn't find a reasonable way to introduce the Xenomorph into the movie. Being disappointed by a film and voicing that disappointment does not mean we are responsible for the sequel being worse
TwinSnakes89 It is the fans fault. He already had a plan on how the story was supposed to go. The aliens weren't even supposed to appear in this film and he had to scrap the original plan and written down a totally new one. This changes the entire plan of the whole Prometheus franchise cause he tried to cater to the fans. This also means the other films scripts were probably rewritten to fit in with covenant and pleasing the fans and he probably had to rush through covenant because he was also in the middle of writing the other scripts. This is 100% fans fault.
I agree with you to a certain extent. Ridley did specifically say that Prometheus was a prequel to the original Alien (1979) and that it would eventually connect. I think what happened is, Ridley wanted to bring the xenomorph in the last film of the trilogy so he could focus on the mythology of the engineers with Prometheus and Covenant but because of the negative response (Immature) and the consequent pressure from Fox to put the Aliens in Covenant and have the word "Alien" in the title to be more marketable, Ridley was like "fuck it, I'll do whatever you want" and now what we get is Covenant, a "flawed" steaming pile of shit.
Asking for Xenomorphs does not excuse terrible writing. His overall vision didn't have to change, he and the writing staff changed it. The way the Xeno was introduced and the 'origins' they have given it is so poor that only Ridley can be blamed for. Alien was a film about truckers in space coming across the alien cargo of a derelict ship, its a simple premise. These 'prequels' are so convoluted that its hard to fit ANY of what we have got into the Alien canon without plot holes aplenty, I honestly expect Ridley to retcon what we know of the first Alien film just to shoehorn these prequels in because based on how Covenant ended I have no idea how it could connect to the film film.
The fans response to Prometheus definately changed the direction of Alien Covenant and I agree it was for the worse. Alien Covenant is on a par with Alien 3 in my book. I really hope Scott gets back to the premise of Prometheus but I think the francise maybe damaged beyond repair.
I wanted to know more about the Engineers, so I'm disappointed. I found much of Prometheus more spine-chilling than Alien: Covenant, though the latter is great as a horror/action movie. Perhaps the DVD of Alien: Covenant will be more satisfying than the movie, but in the meantime at least I'll be going back to Prometheus (interesting that Ridley mentioned Quatermass and the Pit in his commentary - that was sci-fi at a very high level, albeit restricted - though not that much - by the primitive special effects of BBC TV c.1959. I'd love to see a remake directed by the great man).
He can't win. Everyone bitched about Prometheus when it was released and wanted the xeno now he's done that they're bitching about wanting the engineer story line back. I remember the sheer volume of hate towards Prometheus when it came out, now looking around certain youtube vids on it the same people claim it to be a flawed masterpiece.
Anthony O'Neill blame Fox, they haven't had a clue what to do with this franchise since Aliens. Alien 3, Alien R, AVPs all have had a history of troubled production, the franchise has been shit for for over 20 years
Covenant was a massive improvement on Prometheus, which was a incoherent mess. I have no objection the the ideas in Prometheus, apart from the reservation that they were a bit fatuous and obvious. the real problem is none of the ideas were presented with any gravity nor were the characters or events suitably affected by them. The ideas were gaffer taped on in a few strips of uninteresting dialogue , had no emotional impact and may as well have not been there. The characters and events in Prometheus were so disjointed and inconsistent there is no way any substantial concept could have any emotional meaning to the viewer. In my view Scott has made the correct call with covenant - stop touching on quasi religious, spiritual themes unless the vehicle they are travelling in is sufficient to give them any impact. In fact, there is now an opening for a quasi religious theme - David is now a well established character and could form a platform for some interesting exploration of the nature and moral perspectives of a hypothetical AI. That exploration could be achieved through unfolding events rather than in exposition dialogue
@@tiefighter3445 Yes, 'an improvement' - I'm not saying Covenant is a good film. Imho, only the first third is worth watching (up to meeting David). The last half on the film is tedious trash, but not as incoherent or pretentious as Prometheus .
*Prometheus on movie release -* "This movie is hot garbage. So much for science?! Who acts like this in that situation? There's no Xenomorph despite the backhanded teased!? The writing and directing of this movie was lousy, it was so all over the place it wasn't even satisfying as its own movie. David (Micheal Fassbender) was the only saving grace for this film... then for some odd reason gets merced hard by the Engineer... for reasons." *Years later* "You know what, Prometheus wasn't half bad, a sort of diamond in the rough. All those poorly written 'WTF' moments could mostly be written off as poor editing with scenes critical to the movie being taken out or they weren't acting rational... they were acting human. Micheal Fassbender was amazing in the film. Engineers were always fascinating to me... who cares about some 'mindless monsters.' This is expanding the 'Alien' franchise." *Alien: Covenant on movie release -* "Oh geeze! Fans lambasting Ridley Scott, forcing a grown adult to cave in to their demands. FANS RUIN EVERYTHING! A movie that caters to no one. Lazy and forced with xenomorphs. Where are my engineers, I was ALWAYS interested in them... ever since Alien..." *Years later* "Honestly that was a good Alien/Aliens film, at least better than Alien 3." (One day we'll enjoy movies for what they are) EDIT: Alien 3, not Aliens 3... doh!
Ridley Scott said he was wrong about the beast being cooked, he never specifically said he thought Prometheus was a mistake. That was just Manipulation of words.
same why did people hate it other then the fact they didn't get their aliens chasing people through hallways . I have never been a fan of the ailen moives Prometheus was why I got into the series . honestly it and event horizon are my favorite sci fi space horrors
They are not in it?!? WTF? I haven't seen it yet. I'm waiting since years to know what happens next when they left to the engineers homeplanet. Should i boycott the movie? My biggest fear is that it's just another franchise reboot.
I did as well. Sure it had flaws, but no movie is perfect. In my opinion it's right up there with Aliens, District 9, and Event Horizon as one the best sci-fi films.
I liked more Prometheus than Covenant. Despite all the script flaws, Prometheus at least felt focus in what Ridley Scott had as a vision. Covenant, on the other hand, felt like it wasn't even sure what exactly it was: A new Alien movie? A Prometheus sequel? A god Complex A.I Story? A dumb popcorn creature movie? In the end none of the directions felt right fulfilled, because there was no clear focus.
Prometheus was fucking perfect!!! something tells me, covenant wont be as impactful. movie goers, now a days, want to be spoon fed everything! movies like these are meant to raise questions and start conversations
also I hope we get to see more about the engineers, let's remember Ridley Scott's said that he wanted to tell a broader story in terms of the relationship between creators and creation, that was sort of portrayed in Prometheus and sort of sacrificed in Covenant in order to make Aliens the main topic of the movie.
As a fan of the franchise, I can definitely say that the lack of a xenomorph is not what dissapointed me about Prometheus. Any "fan" who says that was their issue with the movie is an idiot.
He changed the idea in the interview "David made the Alien", yet in Prometheus there was the images on the walls. So it's a mix up, we all wanted more backstory from the Engineers, which then lead to the Alien films.
Promethius wasn't bad.IMO..And I could have dealt with all the things that got left unanswered If The next film would have addressed some of those things.There is always a slow part to most stories. He should have just stuck with his original idea. I cant believe he ignored so much with this film.
I don't understand why people were bitching about Prometheus. It was asking some of the deepest questions out there, I've never seen a sci-fi that focused on these topics. Prometheus 2 would have finally answered the questions, but no, the fucking fanboys just want their Xenos
Most of the complaints about covenant that I remember reading was a lack of xenomorphs. I thought the lack of character depth was the biggest issue with Prometheus. I thought they would combine Prometheus and Alien in future movies. Have deeper characters that don't make stupid decisions next movie.
I think Prometheus, as it was originally supposed to be, was ruined by the poor response to the Alien Versus Predator series. Fox tried to distance the films by insisting the specific xenomorph references be removed from Prometheus. It's still a good film, just not everything it was intended. Producers often ruin artistic vision in favor of marketability.
I wasn't frustrated with prometheus because it didn't have any xenomorphs in it. I was frustrated because it was going to explain who and what the space jokey was, but fell a bit short when it came to answers. Same thing with covenant.
Scott really needs to finish the story that started with Prometheus!! That is a gold mine and from where I stand, the people who didn't like it fall into two categories. 1) people who don't like the idea of intelligent design (God or god, doesn't matter). 2) people who need things spoon fed to them in movies.
Damnit hybrid I haven't been able to watch any of your videos cause covenant isn't out here yet and you keep posting them!! I'm gonna have to go back binge.
I was under the impression that Alien: Awakening was going to follow more of what David and Shaw were doing between Covenant and Prometheus? Which would answer some questions a lot of people have including yourself in this video.
I've seen Covenant twice now & I'm sad to say I'm still dissatisfied. I wanted 'Paradise Lost', but instead I got 'The Force Awakens'. A real shame. I absolutely love Prometheus. For me Alien & Aliens are perfect, they were enough. What I was interested in though was this whole new story, focussing on the origin of the Space Jockey etc. Looks like yet another case of money over substance. How many more times are we going to get, "Here's this new crew, stumble across this foreign life form, jump scare, scream, blood, scream, learn what we already know...then blast it out of the F n air lock. Can't wait for the next 3.
What Ridley forgot to mention is that people also highly complained about nearly everything else in Prometheus. At least he took a complaint about xenomorphs and we got a better sequel.
I personally thought Prometheus was really boring, but you've already gone down the path, so you've got to commit, not drop it and handwave it away in a halfassed fashion. You made your bed and you have to lie in it. I thought that because of such a huge disconnect from Prometheus, and the disregard it held for the established Alien universe, it was a pointless movie and it was a total slap in the face to anyone who actually was a fan of Prometheus.
I completely agree with everything you say, Nick. I was hoping too, that maybe in Covenant, or a future sequel/prequel, we would find out more of the mural in Prometheus. Not the Xenomorph one, but the one that had a God like Engineer, literally forcing a Bird like creature resembling some sort of Phoenix or Icarus being down at his feet. It reminded me of David discussing The Gates of Valhalla, as this is where the Gods, are winged warriors. Like the Valkyrie. I'd love to know more about this story. And if they were the Engineers God's.
3:29 (...continuation of David's and Elizabeth Shaw's story) Wasn't it announced that Alan Dean Foster would be writing a novel designed to convey this story precisely? That is, a narrative that tells what happened in those intervening 10 years between the two movies, with all that belongs to it? If you look on Amazon under books, I believe it's being billed as "Alien: Covenant 2", but perhaps this is a stub for something they decided, in the end, not to do? Or is it just awaiting an actual title? LOL, that's It, "I Awaited Our Arrival"!
the reason Prometheus is still one of my fav movies is because it leaves alot of questions. it makes u wanting to see what happens next. atleast in my case. other than the impressive visuals and sounds. its my fav demo bluray to show off my home theater set up to friends and fam. but back to the subject, yea i really wished there would have been a direct sequel to Prometheus. the actual "aliens" (xeno) wasnt needed as it clearly is a prequel. im still gona see covenant this weekend for sure
You are correct, the bottom line is that many people wanted to see Shaw in Alien Covenant and, for what it was shown, David used and killed her. This is a new trend I guess for Hollywood as a whole, producing movies with no happy endings anymore. Even Disney changed its rhetoric... The Killing of Shaw was the only thing that was disappointing. The question that stays is: Will Goodness or Evil prevail after Alien Covenant? Will David succeed in his bloody mission? According to a recent interview, Ridley Scott mentioned his plans towards a War of the Worlds... Let's wait and see
Look, we all know things have been changed from the original idea/arc of the storyline from Alien but at this point its the closest we are ever going to get and at least Ridley is trying to bring us something that comes as close as he reasonably can. We can either accept and appreciate it for what its is, understanding that the original ideas are not his property to be used letter for letter or we can bitch and complain and be negative.
Prometheus is one of the deepest philosophical movies I have ever seen - it has 4-5 layers of understanding. It's one of my favourite movies. They should have continued on that path.
Fan response killed the sequel. Prometheus has flaws but a proper Prometheus sequel could have opened the story line. Instead we get more of the same nonsense. Expanding on the engineers would have worked. I personally liked The attempt made to expand the story. Don't worry 10 years from now we'll get a prequel to Prometheus and everyone will hate it. History repeats. Scott was right the beast is dead. The surprise is gone. You can't make it terrifying again. You can and should expand the storyline. Oh and how can Shaw survive Prometheus knowing what David did to her husband and blindly trust him again. More nonsense.
Covenant appears to have shorted the intellectual fan-base in lieu of making sure mouth-breathers with a low attention span would pay money to be stimulated without having to think too much. The engineers were the only thing I was looking forward to exploring in this new movie, but instead we got a shallow rehash of Alien. There should have been so much more discovery and wonder in this film, but instead the characters do not even seem surprised or grateful to be on a habitable alien world with evidence of a previous civilization.
I'd like to know what was the original direction Ridley Scot was going to take Alien: Covenant in? I have to say I was disturbed and disappointed how Alien: Covenant ended.
It took me 2 mins into my drive home to realized alien Covenant did answer 0 question from Prometheus. Being a someone who loved Prometheus, I think Alien Covenant is a slap in the face to Prometheus fans.
Of course that was by no means the major complaint - what sucked the most was that the movie 1) offered no pay-off, asking hundreds of questions and answering none of them, 2) everyone was retarded, included the Engineer, 3) no conversation between humans and their creators, 3) an octopus, a zombie, laughable prosthetics instead of an actual old man, 4) what is the goo?, 5) why is alien sculpture on the walls if aliens don't exist yet?, 6) if they were SOOO advanced they created the human race, then how the fuck did they die? And the list goes on and on and on. Oh, and CLIMBING AFTER AN ABORTION. Yeah, that one takes the cake.
Fuck, you got me. I truly am to blame here. Give me a cross to carry and a few lashes so that I don't single-handedly screw up the entire Avatar universe next time round.
Prometheus blew me away , it was new and had bold challenging ideas , I have seen Covenant it's a good film but just didn't challenge my mind as much , plus I felt Shaw really needed more in the story as with the engineers
I think it was based on what Scott said about complaints that Prometheus wasn't Alien enough. I personally believe that the majority of people who saw Prometheus had issues with the stupid things some of the characters did and also the lack of answers by the end of the movie, beyond that I think people enjoyed Prometheus for the most part and most wanted to see Shaw and David's journey to the Engineer planet. Based on all the spoiler reviews it seems like we didn't really get the Prometheus sequel we wanted. #ThisIsNotTheSequelWeWereLookingFor
I wasn't a fan of Prometheus but honestly they could have found a way to incorporate the Engineers into Alien Covenant, fans wanted the creatures yes but not at the cost of disregarding all of the set up in Prometheus.
Ridley Scott obviously didn't hear the fans asking wtf about the unanswered questions about Prometheus, and all the fan theories of what would happen with shaw, and the engineers. Instead it is effectively wiped away and forgotten about. Gutted, ruined a great subject into same old, same old story.
It's an absolute shame. The best artists tell stories as they envision them, while in the end Ridley Scott felt the need to reject his vision and pander to audiences. It fucking sucks. The man couldn't just tell the story he had in his mind, he had to bend to the will of executives and audiences. If an artist creates something that mainstream audiences are in disagreement with, they're doing something groundbreaking nowadays.
I haven't seen Covenant yet but I was a bit disappointed to hear Ridley bend his vision to fit someone else's. First fans complained that Prometheus was too different and now they're complaining because Covenant is more of the same. Honestly, this is a battle that he can't win and I would prefer he just do whatever he wants. I loved Prometheus and would have been perfectly happy with a film that followed in its footsteps. I don't need to see the Alien to enjoy these films but I'll wait until the film opens here in the U.S. this weekend before making a final judgement.
Totally agree wt you brother. Loved the way Ridley went down wt Prometheus and craved for the next movie where David and Shaw would get some answers so from that point of view I was a little disappointed,felt that Ridley had to make a compromise somehow because the reaction Prometheus got and a compromise is never really good but who knows,we'll see what the future holds for us.
I think it did. Covenant seemed to rush through all the strands from Prometheus. Shaw, the engineers, the xenomorph origin. All really rushed through in an unsatisfying manner.
Clearly the fan reaction changed everything, even down the the mural on the wall showing the neomorph, face huggers etc. It was originally intended (I believe) as fan service. That mural used images from the old original design by Geiger which was intended for the structure on LV426 that was never filmed. Now, with Covenant, people are understandably taking such things literally and again understandably are confused. I believe however, Prometheus was where the Alien connection was to end, and the series grow into its own thing. While I enjoyed Covenant, Scott should have stuck to his guns and followed his original vision. People don't know what they want until you give it to them.
Covenant sets up it was David who created the Xenomorphs. To be honenst it is still the Engineers who did it. According to Prometheus did they create the black goo and made the first version of the Xenomorph. David did just improve it and made his own thing on the design of the Xeno. :D
I definitely wanted more of the Engineers. We've all seen the Xenomorphs, face-huggers, and chest-bursters for almost 40 years now. The ideas in Prometheus were great, I just wanted a little less ambiguity, and for some of the characters motivations to be hashed out more.
Surprised by Scott's acquiescing to the xenomorph cult as he usually does what he wants. He had an opportunity to do something big with the search for the "Engineers" home world, along the lines of the book sequel to Greg Bear's "Forge of God." But, hey, if destroying a franchise is your thing, John Logan is certainly the one for the job!
I would much prefer if only the neomorph appear in Covenant as a protomorph and just remove the xenomorph entirely. That is so we can see the evolution of how the xenomorph actually came to be step by step from a deacon to a xenomorph, each step being a single movie and less confusing or rushed.
there was a lot of unanswered questions in Prometheus but I like what the film was about, it wasn't really about the xenomorphs it was it's own thing just set in the same universe. making it about the origins of the xenomorphs is a instructing idea but I thought this new film series was going to be more than just a Xenomorph origin story.
Perhaps it would have been better if we had two separate films - a sequel to Prometheus where we get some (but not all) answers, and a dedicated prequel to Alien. Like the way the Xenomorph can create hybrids, in making Prometheus Ridley Scott took original Alien film fans and from them mutated a new life form - Prometheus fans! It was pretty inevitable that one film would never please the original base and the new.
Totally agree with you. I was really looking forward to Alien Covenant continuing in Prometheus steps, asking deep questions and looking for a deeper meaning behind the original movies. Instead, covenant feels a little bit crooked to create action with some of the character/story development bending to accomodate for the xenomorph scenes which didnt need to be there... Would prefer Ridleys original vision
I wasn't mad about there "being no xenos" in Prometheus. I was mad because it was a confusing mess of a plot and NOW it makes no sense in how did the eggs get on the ship in ALIEN if what happened in Covenant is canon.
If Scott or the studio think that the poor response to Prometheus was that it "wasn't enough like Alien(s) and needed more Xenomorphs" then they weren't actually listening to the fans. I was super hyped for Prometheus... and visually and conceptually it was amazing... but the story, pacing and editing just had some glaring issues. It had a lot of potential, but just fell a little flat. Trying to make "Aliens 2.0" might be great and I hope Alien: Covenant is good but I actually really wanted more of Prometheus... despite being disappointed by it.
What if the crashed ship from the original alien movie and the engineers in that ship would probably answer the question on why humans are made, wants to destroy and also some backstory? It would probably link the movies from the original and prequels. Plus david hates the engineers and maybe he hunts down those last living engineers
How the hell did alien covenant distance itself from prometheus? It's basically just a re-skin of prometheus it felt like I was watching the exact same movie
Reading some of the comments. It's funny seeing complaints of bad writing from people who can barely mumble the language. (judging by their writing skills)
It's got nothing to do with monies. It was more a question of how it's possible to judge what is bad writing without the knowledge to realise that their own writing is barely legible.
As an Alien fan i wasn't concerned too much of not seeing the xenomorph I was more of amazed how badly the script for Prometheus was written. I mean, it has so many plotholes and nonsense in it that I think is the main reason why Covenant at least to me feels even with xeno disappointing as well.
Just got out of seeing Covenant. I would have liked 2 things: more engineer focused storyline and also the makeup on the engineers in the flashback wasn't very good. They just look more like pasty humans with no hair and interesting nose formations. 2: More of a behind the scenes look of the tinkering david took/did to "perfect" his creation(s) as well as a more psychological explanation as to why he feels the xenos are his end goal. There was a bit of exposition but almost not enough as the horror aspect of the crew getting annihilated took center stage. Overall this was a great movie. It kept me tense throughout (not as always scared/tense as Alien, but still damn good). It still leaves many questions unanswered. The cast did an amazing job.
Can someone explain to how shaw put David back together when she only took davids head in a bag to the new ship to fly away? What did she give birth to davids new body?
I've gone from asking questions about the lore/mythos to asking myself why I don't care about the alien franchise after covenant. Like another youtuber said: "it was not David bombing the engineers it was Ridley bombing all the evidence of Prometheus" Ridley listened to teen-fanboys with shit taste. I love grand sci-fi movies and everything looked like it was setting up something grand with Prometheus, but even Ridley said he was "wrong" about Promotheus but he def. wasn't. This could have been Ridley's starwars and he dropped the ball he stopped believing in himself, it's a damn shame. Now we are back to chasing bugs on a spaceship.. which is fun but nothing really memorable tbh. I really liked Prometheus alot even with it's flaws.. RIP Alien franchise
I actually liked Prometheus. I liked how it was about telling the story of the Space Jockey's (Engineers), and focus on just the xenomorphs. It was more about the actual universe, reality of the setting which Aliens took place in. I was hoping covenent would give more clues on the Engineers. . I also think that they could have blended both Engineers and aliens. I know why Ridly did what he had to do, but same time it shows me to some degree how shallow and simple minded people are. They just wanted the horrific xenomorphs.
To me Ridley Scott missed the point. People wanted the Aliens in the Prometheus set up. They didn't want him to scrap existing characters so we could get Ripley 2.0. The two aren't mutually exclusive since the Alien is just a monster irrespective of our characters.
Alien Covenant is an awesome film and i was very satisfied with how it answered the questions i had left from Prometheus, a very brave and shocking ending to Dr. Elizabeth Shaws journey.
I was surprised how covenant was developing. Before apperenty this was supposed to be moved further away from aliens into something new like engineers and more.
A lot of the beef people have had that I've read has to do with them not liking the crew. They felt that scientists and astronauts would be smarter and that the crew in Prometheus consistently made ridiculous decisions. I personally was very intrigued by the engineers and the way David nuked their little city (even if those creatures don't look exactly like the ones we see in Prometheus) means Ridley Scott is bored of them or unable to add on to their writing (because let's be honest writing a sentient alien species from the ground up is challenging work). I saw Alien Covenant today and really like it. I feel that David carried the film and it's only as interesting as it is because of his character and the way we can compare him to Walter.
It's a disgrace to Prometheus! I loved the idea in Prometheus like who created us? Why did they hate and want to destroy us? These questions are not answered in Alien: Covenant which is a cliche thriller movie. Covenant has the dumbest crew in the universe I think. They land on a new planet without helmets and protection. Of course, naturally some of them get infected. No story whatsoever! Only Aliens killing the crew members. I feel like they just ruined a great material created in Prometheus. Please note that Prometheus has been rated 7 on IMDB in 5 years while the rating of Alien: Covenant is 7 in 2 days, which says a lot about the movie itself. Its rating is going down every day. Sorry Ridley Scott but seems like you have been working with wrong people.
If Alien Covenant was ruined by Prometheus, it's on Ridley Scott's head. The amount of science, character believability, continuity rules, and just basic laws of our universe that are discarded, broken, ignored, & cast into an unbelievable pit in both films instead of having been worked out by the scriptwriters or at least by the director in consultation is fucking shameful. Both films tacitly rely on premises that cannot exist in their universe. And this will be most true when the series hooks back up with Ripley, whose ship, by the laws of Special Relativity which govern the universe, should have been through its meeting with the Alien Menace looooong ago.
I would have preferred a sequel directly connecting to Prometheus which continued on david/shaws journey abit more , however Covenant is pleasing the fans that wanted more of the xenomorph and the fans of prometheus at the same time. That saying I absolutely loved covenant , cant wait for Awakening.
I agree with you, I would prefer a continuation of Prometheus. But can it be possible that Ridley Scott lauched part 3 of the story to answer that complain bout lack of xenomorphs in the movie? I think he will focus on part 2 now, more like a continuation of Prometheus. I just don't know if it's a movie centered on David and Dr.Shaw or something else. It seems that the 4th movie will start abord the Covenant with David and all those colonists and embryos. What do you think?
Hi Hybrid Network, I have not watched the video yet b/c i have not seen Convenant yet however i did want to let you know my thoughts about prometheus, My thinking is that Ridley Scott cow towing to all of his fans wanting this series of movies to be about aliens and not the engineers/space jockey is what ruined the series for myself and really put Ridley in a bad place in my heart im afraid.
I really wanted to see what you guys thought about this topic, and Prometheus in general. Personally, I think it's a shame Ridley thought the main complaint about Prometheus was the lack of Aliens when clearly that wasn't the case.
Hybrid Network Movie was too thought provoking, had to dumb it down for the normies lol
+TheShadowInTheMask not so much dumb down as give them eye candy to talk about while the more Sophisticated viewers focus on the real story with David.
Hybrid Network sin duda influye, es una pena que que hoy día todo sea moldeado para maximizar ganancias...
It's extremely disappointing that Shaw and Engineers are on the cutting board because of poor decisions made with Prometheus.
Hybrid Network gotta get away from those basic fascists asking for simplicity all the time
All I wanted was more of the Engineers and thier story. I didn't want to see mindless creatures running around killing everything ...
Same here, Cant believe they released it like this.
Agreed!
I don't know, the xenomorph indirectly were interesting. I stress indirectly because its basically the perfect killer; however the story, characters, symbolism, and themes around it were interesting.
Religious undertones of deamons in the prequel movies (judging the movie poster with the Dante-esque stone relief)? And might very well be a future Frankenstein's monster if what Ridley said was true in an interview? Haven't seen Alien: Covenant yet. Maybe it isn't a good Alien movie either? As with Alien and Aliens, as a successful film it hinged on the directing, interesting xenomorph stuff, and cast (between the tension filled/tired truckers and highly charismatic/memorable marines). Alien 3 and Alien 4 were faulted for not having one or two of those three reasons. Prometheus had Micheal Fassbender though... but he alone couldn't carry Prometheus and it's probably the same with Alien: Covenant?
I don't know... still secretly hoping its good after having lowered the bar a bit, seeing it on the 19th.
Yeah, ever since I saw Alien back in the 80s I wanted to know more about the Space Jockey and the engineers... The Xenos add the horror piece, but I want explanations on who the engineers are/were.
My thoughts exactly! Mindless aliens V's the engineers, no contest! Engineer's story all the way ! the alien should be a side show now.
I personally think Prometheus should have been the first in a trilogy, Prometheus to set up the new characters and such, the second to show how the aliens were made, ins and outs, with Shau, and the third to link the universes
Prometheus is more like a prologue, and Alien Covenant is Act 1 of a 3 act story.
British Australia that's exactly what's happening. Lol
AngryGoats555 no it isn't actually, but ok
British Australia so what exactly is happening? It's just gonna stop? Care to explain to me then what Awakening is?
British Australia it is a Trilogy.
I really wished he wld hve stayed on the path of Prometheus & kept the title "Paradise" as a 1 word movie heading. The engineers are a brlliantly new idea in dark sci fi that, with ridley's vision wld hve made 4 sme very nice looking movies. Prometheus 2me from the 1st day i saw it became 1 of my fav movies of all time... Like Inception, think while U watch it and conclude what u want until a sequal would've came out. Oh well, money and hollywood makes the movies (literally & figuratively)
I feel like the xenomorph was forced into covenant. it didn't do much to further the story in the film. it just makes a small appearance. it was not intimidating at all. the neomorphs were fresh. but they could of made a much better film if they stuck with the Prometheus storyline more. we could of had a philosophical discussion with Shaw, David and the engineers about creation and why they wanted to kill us. some things could of went down providing action. but now because of some bitching fans, we are stuck with an inconsistent mess of a film ( by the way I still enjoyed covenant, but it was messy)
Came here to type pretty much the same thing. I'm very disappointed in the direction it took, but it's not a 'bad' movie, but the sequel had potential for more depth and went the opposite direction. Also, I'm salty about Shaw's death, I think I liked her character even more than Ripley.
Her death doesn't even make sense. David said he loved her. So why did he experiment on her? Had so much more potential and her end felt like a copp out
I would have prefered Shaw teamed up with Daniels to hunt down David or whatever and stop him but oops looks like there both dead now.
I like to agree with a theory that David used Shaw's reproductive system to create and mutate xeno eggs (or at least their earliest form). That would explain why he bothered to cut her open and would at least give some meaning to her death.
Seriously, they didn't even explain it, unless that was another unfortunate cut like those in Prometheus. If he found out she still carried the infection and this was his way of extending her life, I could understand, David probably has a few short circuits after his ordeal. I just have the bitter taste of disappointment.
Itttt was definitely with the fanboys screaming to Fox Studios about not enough Xeno evenothough we got the Murals, Trilobite, Deacon etc and the LOST writing is what torpedoed it. Now we have the generic monster mash that is Covenant; No unsolved mysteries, no real surprises, no birds..., no animals...nothing.
Prometheus was profound and resonated with many because it asked questions that many of us would like answered in real life. The Engineers could've been scarier than the xenos because of their disdain for us. Instead they get wiped out by a single robot from earth??? That ending doesn't do them justice. Same with Shaw, after her incredible journey. She dies at the hands of David before meeting the Engineers? Really?? pfft
Now David a robot we know everything about, is at the heart of the story line.
Ridley missed a trick here. These movies could've been classics, instead he listened to the people that are better off watching Fast 8 and went for more of everything we've already had. Xeno tail slowly through the legs, Xeno blown out the airlock into space.
Very disappointing he didnt stick to his guns.
I can't say I'm surprised with the outcome of this movie seeing as the backlash Prometheus got. It seems as though the little fanboys got into Ridleys head. Ridley had his own unique storyline planned for Prometheus and had an idea where he wanted it to go about the engineer home world and learning about them but they bitched and cried because they didn't get their "chestburster" and "xenomorphs" because their brain was too small to comprehend good storytelling. I feel sorry for the true fans of Prometheus who have been let down because of fanboy casuals who probably never even seen the first alien movie. I thought covenant was okay for the first hour of the movie then just stared to decline, special effects were great , but I did not like what they did with Shaw's character either . Prometheus was better , fuck the cancerous fanboys.
I say it's both parties faults. Scott's and fans. The original script for Prometheus was perfect and it gave more information but Scott went somewhere else with it and it kind of came up short to we expected. The fans, my god, just want to see xenomorphs and no story. The story was getting to the xenomorphs and how they came to be but the fans wanted to see them right away. It's just bad from both sides.
skatetard101 I'd say more the fault of the writer of "lost" for Prometheus's direction. But I get where you're coming from.
You really know nothing about Alien. First, the basis was to scare us with Xenomorphy sexuality, akk rape, birth and all that. Now to aliens in movies, they are evolving. Now you might want to use some comics to defend yourself. But they werent created by Scott or James Cameron, so not quiet canon.
I liked Prometheus I wanted to see more of Shaw and David meeting the engineers. sadly only got a glimpse of that in covenant 😕
G:D Jones crackpot videos yes! such a shame. The Prologue was so interesting.. watching David aboard the derelict ship hovering over the engineers on their home planet..... there could have been so much more....
mannysaurus19 agreed
I would prefer to have Covenant focus on the "engineers" and their race than rather the Xenomorphs. They seem more of an interesting race than the Xenomorphs that are basically violent creatures by nature.
4+ hours of film.....still know next to nothing about the Engineers.
IKR... But... At least we know they are a super intelligent and advanced race but stupid enough to get annihilated by a robot built by us, an inferior race created by them... That was just plain ridiculous.
Well said D-One.
Oh and of course.. they live in a Stone made temple thing.. lol Even we have churches made of bricks and concrete ;D
That was not the Engineer race. They don't even look the same. They have normal human like eyes for a start.
But JohnnyZenith even if thats true they are still a super ancient advanced race with 0 defense mechanisms. Unidentified ships being able to just fly-in with no air space clearance and dropping mass destruction weapons is a bit silly, it felt like a scene from a kids movie. If they all had to die it could be done in a more realistic way
Covenant would have been better if the xenomorph stuff was cut
I agree, I wanted to see more Neomorph
more engineers please
Exactly.
Neomorph or Engineers would have been pretty good. Or hell, even the deacon that was shown at the end of Prometheus that was just... forgotten about.
I wanted more engineers not aliens they could have brought them in at a later movie
It's absolutely the fans fault. Ridley seemed to have a vision on how he wanted the storyline to be and the fans forced him to put aliens in the next film. He listened and now once again he's getting backlash. Alien fans, don't blame no one but yourselves. I still enjoyed the film even tho I was looking forward to Shaw and David looking for the engineers and alien origins. Hopefully awakening and the rest of the films can be how he envisioned it but since covenant released, he's gonna have to rework around his plans and hopefully the fans will stay quiet this time and actually wait for the answers. It's a prequel story for a reason, answers come film by film.
AutisticWhale 2 I agree
Its not the fans fault that Alien Covenant was so badly written. We (the fans) are not at fault that Ridley couldn't find a reasonable way to introduce the Xenomorph into the movie. Being disappointed by a film and voicing that disappointment does not mean we are responsible for the sequel being worse
TwinSnakes89 It is the fans fault. He already had a plan on how the story was supposed to go. The aliens weren't even supposed to appear in this film and he had to scrap the original plan and written down a totally new one. This changes the entire plan of the whole Prometheus franchise cause he tried to cater to the fans. This also means the other films scripts were probably rewritten to fit in with covenant and pleasing the fans and he probably had to rush through covenant because he was also in the middle of writing the other scripts. This is 100% fans fault.
I agree with you to a certain extent. Ridley did specifically say that Prometheus was a prequel to the original Alien (1979) and that it would eventually connect. I think what happened is, Ridley wanted to bring the xenomorph in the last film of the trilogy so he could focus on the mythology of the engineers with Prometheus and Covenant but because of the negative response (Immature) and the consequent pressure from Fox to put the Aliens in Covenant and have the word "Alien" in the title to be more marketable, Ridley was like "fuck it, I'll do whatever you want" and now what we get is Covenant, a "flawed" steaming pile of shit.
Asking for Xenomorphs does not excuse terrible writing. His overall vision didn't have to change, he and the writing staff changed it. The way the Xeno was introduced and the 'origins' they have given it is so poor that only Ridley can be blamed for. Alien was a film about truckers in space coming across the alien cargo of a derelict ship, its a simple premise. These 'prequels' are so convoluted that its hard to fit ANY of what we have got into the Alien canon without plot holes aplenty, I honestly expect Ridley to retcon what we know of the first Alien film just to shoehorn these prequels in because based on how Covenant ended I have no idea how it could connect to the film film.
The fans response to Prometheus definately changed the direction of Alien Covenant and I agree it was for the worse. Alien Covenant is on a par with Alien 3 in my book.
I really hope Scott gets back to the premise of Prometheus but I think the francise maybe damaged beyond repair.
I wanted to know more about the Engineers, so I'm disappointed. I found much of Prometheus more spine-chilling than Alien: Covenant, though the latter is great as a horror/action movie. Perhaps the DVD of Alien: Covenant will be more satisfying than the movie, but in the meantime at least I'll be going back to Prometheus (interesting that Ridley mentioned Quatermass and the Pit in his commentary - that was sci-fi at a very high level, albeit restricted - though not that much - by the primitive special effects of BBC TV c.1959. I'd love to see a remake directed by the great man).
He can't win. Everyone bitched about Prometheus when it was released and wanted the xeno now he's done that they're bitching about wanting the engineer story line back. I remember the sheer volume of hate towards Prometheus when it came out, now looking around certain youtube vids on it the same people claim it to be a flawed masterpiece.
Anthony O'Neill blame Fox, they haven't had a clue what to do with this franchise since Aliens. Alien 3, Alien R, AVPs all have had a history of troubled production, the franchise has been shit for for over 20 years
It's cuz his movies suck!Pretty simple.
Renaissance Men Yeah Blade Runner, Alien, Gladiator, The Martian and the directors cut of Kingdom of Heaven are all shit aren't they
Renaissance Men what an awful opinion.
Everyone who hated it before (me included) hates it more now because it's awful.
Also blame Ridley for stating that Prometheus was an Alien film
Covenant was a massive improvement on Prometheus, which was a incoherent mess. I have no objection the the ideas in Prometheus, apart from the reservation that they were a bit fatuous and obvious. the real problem is none of the ideas were presented with any gravity nor were the characters or events suitably affected by them. The ideas were gaffer taped on in a few strips of uninteresting dialogue , had no emotional impact and may as well have not been there. The characters and events in Prometheus were so disjointed and inconsistent there is no way any substantial concept could have any emotional meaning to the viewer. In my view Scott has made the correct call with covenant - stop touching on quasi religious, spiritual themes unless the vehicle they are travelling in is sufficient to give them any impact. In fact, there is now an opening for a quasi religious theme - David is now a well established character and could form a platform for some interesting exploration of the nature and moral perspectives of a hypothetical AI. That exploration could be achieved through unfolding events rather than in exposition dialogue
covenant was an improvement you say? 😂
@@tiefighter3445 Yes, 'an improvement' - I'm not saying Covenant is a good film. Imho, only the first third is worth watching (up to meeting David). The last half on the film is tedious trash, but not as incoherent or pretentious as Prometheus .
Im going to see covenant tommorow, i do not accept prometheus as canon so im ignoring it
*Prometheus on movie release -* "This movie is hot garbage. So much for science?! Who acts like this in that situation? There's no Xenomorph despite the backhanded teased!? The writing and directing of this movie was lousy, it was so all over the place it wasn't even satisfying as its own movie. David (Micheal Fassbender) was the only saving grace for this film... then for some odd reason gets merced hard by the Engineer... for reasons."
*Years later*
"You know what, Prometheus wasn't half bad, a sort of diamond in the rough. All those poorly written 'WTF' moments could mostly be written off as poor editing with scenes critical to the movie being taken out or they weren't acting rational... they were acting human. Micheal Fassbender was amazing in the film. Engineers were always fascinating to me... who cares about some 'mindless monsters.' This is expanding the 'Alien' franchise."
*Alien: Covenant on movie release -* "Oh geeze! Fans lambasting Ridley Scott, forcing a grown adult to cave in to their demands. FANS RUIN EVERYTHING! A movie that caters to no one. Lazy and forced with xenomorphs. Where are my engineers, I was ALWAYS interested in them... ever since Alien..."
*Years later*
"Honestly that was a good Alien/Aliens film, at least better than Alien 3."
(One day we'll enjoy movies for what they are)
EDIT: Alien 3, not Aliens 3... doh!
Khorneflakes My thoughts exactly.
Lol
Ridley Scott said he was wrong about the beast being cooked, he never specifically said he thought Prometheus was a mistake. That was just Manipulation of words.
I loved prometheus
same why did people hate it other then the fact they didn't get their aliens chasing people through hallways . I have never been a fan of the ailen moives Prometheus was why I got into the series . honestly it and event horizon are my favorite sci fi space horrors
They are not in it?!? WTF? I haven't seen it yet. I'm waiting since years to know what happens next when they left to the engineers homeplanet. Should i boycott the movie? My biggest fear is that it's just another franchise reboot.
Do we get to know at least why he boms them?!? Damn the prologue got me hyped about david, shawn and the engenieers...
David creates a type of Alien. There could be multiple types, some old some new!
I did as well. Sure it had flaws, but no movie is perfect. In my opinion it's right up there with Aliens, District 9, and Event Horizon as one the best sci-fi films.
I liked more Prometheus than Covenant. Despite all the script flaws, Prometheus at least felt focus in what Ridley Scott had as a vision. Covenant, on the other hand, felt like it wasn't even sure what exactly it was: A new Alien movie? A Prometheus sequel? A god Complex A.I Story? A dumb popcorn creature movie? In the end none of the directions felt right fulfilled, because there was no clear focus.
Prometheus was great and the engineers are awesome.
Prometheus was fucking perfect!!! something tells me, covenant wont be as impactful. movie goers, now a days, want to be spoon fed everything! movies like these are meant to raise questions and start conversations
also I hope we get to see more about the engineers, let's remember Ridley Scott's said that he wanted to tell a broader story in terms of the relationship between creators and creation, that was sort of portrayed in Prometheus and sort of sacrificed in Covenant in order to make Aliens the main topic of the movie.
As a fan of the franchise, I can definitely say that the lack of a xenomorph is not what dissapointed me about Prometheus. Any "fan" who says that was their issue with the movie is an idiot.
+M Pixel they're an idiot because they have a different opinion to you? (FYI I am not one of the people who moaned about the lack of xenomorphs)
No, they'd be an idiot for having an idiotic opinion.
+M Pixel do you understand the word 'opinion'?
Agree
Sounds like midiclorians.
He changed the idea in the interview "David made the Alien", yet in Prometheus there was the images on the walls. So it's a mix up, we all wanted more backstory from the Engineers, which then lead to the Alien films.
Promethius wasn't bad.IMO..And I could have dealt with all the things that got left unanswered If The next film would have addressed some of those things.There is always a slow part to most stories. He should have just stuck with his original idea. I cant believe he ignored so much with this film.
I don't understand why people were bitching about Prometheus. It was asking some of the deepest questions out there, I've never seen a sci-fi that focused on these topics. Prometheus 2 would have finally answered the questions, but no, the fucking fanboys just want their Xenos
Most of the complaints about covenant that I remember reading was a lack of xenomorphs. I thought the lack of character depth was the biggest issue with Prometheus. I thought they would combine Prometheus and Alien in future movies. Have deeper characters that don't make stupid decisions next movie.
I think Prometheus, as it was originally supposed to be, was ruined by the poor response to the Alien Versus Predator series. Fox tried to distance the films by insisting the specific xenomorph references be removed from Prometheus. It's still a good film, just not everything it was intended. Producers often ruin artistic vision in favor of marketability.
I wasn't frustrated with prometheus because it didn't have any xenomorphs in it. I was frustrated because it was going to explain who and what the space jokey was, but fell a bit short when it came to answers. Same thing with covenant.
Scott is probably like ''WHEN THE FUCK ARE ANY OF YOU HAPPY!!!!"
Scott really needs to finish the story that started with Prometheus!! That is a gold mine and from where I stand, the people who didn't like it fall into two categories. 1) people who don't like the idea of intelligent design (God or god, doesn't matter).
2) people who need things spoon fed to them in movies.
Damnit hybrid I haven't been able to watch any of your videos cause covenant isn't out here yet and you keep posting them!! I'm gonna have to go back binge.
I was under the impression that Alien: Awakening was going to follow more of what David and Shaw were doing between Covenant and Prometheus? Which would answer some questions a lot of people have including yourself in this video.
I've seen Covenant twice now & I'm sad to say I'm still dissatisfied. I wanted 'Paradise Lost', but instead I got 'The Force Awakens'. A real shame. I absolutely love Prometheus. For me Alien & Aliens are perfect, they were enough. What I was interested in though was this whole new story, focussing on the origin of the Space Jockey etc. Looks like yet another case of money over substance. How many more times are we going to get, "Here's this new crew, stumble across this foreign life form, jump scare, scream, blood, scream, learn what we already know...then blast it out of the F n air lock. Can't wait for the next 3.
What Ridley forgot to mention is that people also highly complained about nearly everything else in Prometheus. At least he took a complaint about xenomorphs and we got a better sequel.
I personally thought Prometheus was really boring, but you've already gone down the path, so you've got to commit, not drop it and handwave it away in a halfassed fashion. You made your bed and you have to lie in it. I thought that because of such a huge disconnect from Prometheus, and the disregard it held for the established Alien universe, it was a pointless movie and it was a total slap in the face to anyone who actually was a fan of Prometheus.
I completely agree with everything you say, Nick. I was hoping too, that maybe in Covenant, or a future sequel/prequel, we would find out more of the mural in Prometheus. Not the Xenomorph one, but the one that had a God like Engineer, literally forcing a Bird like creature resembling some sort of Phoenix or Icarus being down at his feet. It reminded me of David discussing The Gates of Valhalla, as this is where the Gods, are winged warriors. Like the Valkyrie. I'd love to know more about this story. And if they were the Engineers God's.
3:29 (...continuation of David's and Elizabeth Shaw's story) Wasn't it announced that Alan Dean Foster would be writing a novel designed to convey this story precisely? That is, a narrative that tells what happened in those intervening 10 years between the two movies, with all that belongs to it? If you look on Amazon under books, I believe it's being billed as "Alien: Covenant 2", but perhaps this is a stub for something they decided, in the end, not to do? Or is it just awaiting an actual title?
LOL, that's It, "I Awaited Our Arrival"!
Engineers ruined the Space Jockey
The only thing i liked about Covenant was the Neomorph. It looks like it can come out from wherever it wants, and that's TERRIFYING
the reason Prometheus is still one of my fav movies is because it leaves alot of questions. it makes u wanting to see what happens next. atleast in my case. other than the impressive visuals and sounds. its my fav demo bluray to show off my home theater set up to friends and fam. but back to the subject, yea i really wished there would have been a direct sequel to Prometheus. the actual "aliens" (xeno) wasnt needed as it clearly is a prequel. im still gona see covenant this weekend for sure
You are correct, the bottom line is that many people wanted to see Shaw in Alien Covenant and, for what it was shown, David used and killed her. This is a new trend I guess for Hollywood as a whole, producing movies with no happy endings anymore. Even Disney changed its rhetoric... The Killing of Shaw was the only thing that was disappointing. The question that stays is: Will Goodness or Evil prevail after Alien Covenant? Will David succeed in his bloody mission? According to a recent interview, Ridley Scott mentioned his plans towards a War of the Worlds... Let's wait and see
Look, we all know things have been changed from the original idea/arc of the storyline from Alien but at this point its the closest we are ever going to get and at least Ridley is trying to bring us something that comes as close as he reasonably can. We can either accept and appreciate it for what its is, understanding that the original ideas are not his property to be used letter for letter or we can bitch and complain and be negative.
Prometheus is one of the deepest philosophical movies I have ever seen - it has 4-5 layers of understanding. It's one of my favourite movies. They should have continued on that path.
Fan response killed the sequel. Prometheus has flaws but a proper Prometheus sequel could have opened the story line. Instead we get more of the same nonsense. Expanding on the engineers would have worked. I personally liked The attempt made to expand the story. Don't worry 10 years from now we'll get a prequel to Prometheus and everyone will hate it. History repeats. Scott was right the beast is dead. The surprise is gone. You can't make it terrifying again. You can and should expand the storyline. Oh and how can Shaw survive Prometheus knowing what David did to her husband and blindly trust him again. More nonsense.
Short answer: yes. Long answer: fuck yes.
I'm honestly tired of seeing the same xenos. The engineers were fresh and intriguing.
This is the right answer.
Covenant appears to have shorted the intellectual fan-base in lieu of making sure mouth-breathers with a low attention span would pay money to be stimulated without having to think too much. The engineers were the only thing I was looking forward to exploring in this new movie, but instead we got a shallow rehash of Alien. There should have been so much more discovery and wonder in this film, but instead the characters do not even seem surprised or grateful to be on a habitable alien world with evidence of a previous civilization.
I'd like to know what was the original direction Ridley Scot was going to take Alien: Covenant in? I have to say I was disturbed and disappointed how Alien: Covenant ended.
It took me 2 mins into my drive home to realized alien Covenant did answer 0 question from Prometheus. Being a someone who loved Prometheus, I think Alien Covenant is a slap in the face to Prometheus fans.
Of course that was by no means the major complaint - what sucked the most was that the movie 1) offered no pay-off, asking hundreds of questions and answering none of them, 2) everyone was retarded, included the Engineer, 3) no conversation between humans and their creators, 3) an octopus, a zombie, laughable prosthetics instead of an actual old man, 4) what is the goo?, 5) why is alien sculpture on the walls if aliens don't exist yet?, 6) if they were SOOO advanced they created the human race, then how the fuck did they die? And the list goes on and on and on. Oh, and CLIMBING AFTER AN ABORTION. Yeah, that one takes the cake.
Fuck, you got me. I truly am to blame here. Give me a cross to carry and a few lashes so that I don't single-handedly screw up the entire Avatar universe next time round.
TrAp1O2 what you said.
Prometheus blew me away , it was new and had bold challenging ideas , I have seen Covenant it's a good film but just didn't challenge my mind as much , plus I felt Shaw really needed more in the story as with the engineers
I think it was based on what Scott said about complaints that Prometheus wasn't Alien enough. I personally believe that the majority of people who saw Prometheus had issues with the stupid things some of the characters did and also the lack of answers by the end of the movie, beyond that I think people enjoyed Prometheus for the most part and most wanted to see Shaw and David's journey to the Engineer planet. Based on all the spoiler reviews it seems like we didn't really get the Prometheus sequel we wanted. #ThisIsNotTheSequelWeWereLookingFor
Im a big fan of the alien saga and i loved prometheus, i've seen it more than 20 times, so i expect something like it.
I wasn't a fan of Prometheus but honestly they could have found a way to incorporate the Engineers into Alien Covenant, fans wanted the creatures yes but not at the cost of disregarding all of the set up in Prometheus.
Ridley Scott obviously didn't hear the fans asking wtf about the unanswered questions about Prometheus, and all the fan theories of what would happen with shaw, and the engineers. Instead it is effectively wiped away and forgotten about. Gutted, ruined a great subject into same old, same old story.
It's an absolute shame. The best artists tell stories as they envision them, while in the end Ridley Scott felt the need to reject his vision and pander to audiences. It fucking sucks. The man couldn't just tell the story he had in his mind, he had to bend to the will of executives and audiences. If an artist creates something that mainstream audiences are in disagreement with, they're doing something groundbreaking nowadays.
Prometheus introduced David, who for better and worse is the backbone of the Alien franchise now.
I haven't seen Covenant yet but I was a bit disappointed to hear Ridley bend his vision to fit someone else's. First fans complained that Prometheus was too different and now they're complaining because Covenant is more of the same. Honestly, this is a battle that he can't win and I would prefer he just do whatever he wants. I loved Prometheus and would have been perfectly happy with a film that followed in its footsteps. I don't need to see the Alien to enjoy these films but I'll wait until the film opens here in the U.S. this weekend before making a final judgement.
Totally agree wt you brother. Loved the way Ridley went down wt Prometheus and craved for the next movie where David and Shaw would get some answers so from that point of view I was a little disappointed,felt that Ridley had to make a compromise somehow because the reaction Prometheus got and a compromise is never really good but who knows,we'll see what the future holds for us.
I think it did. Covenant seemed to rush through all the strands from Prometheus. Shaw, the engineers, the xenomorph origin. All really rushed through in an unsatisfying manner.
Wanted a follow up in the direction of Prometheus that didn't emphasize the xenomorphs in the storyline
Clearly the fan reaction changed everything, even down the the mural on the wall showing the neomorph, face huggers etc. It was originally intended (I believe) as fan service. That mural used images from the old original design by Geiger which was intended for the structure on LV426 that was never filmed. Now, with Covenant, people are understandably taking such things literally and again understandably are confused. I believe however, Prometheus was where the Alien connection was to end, and the series grow into its own thing.
While I enjoyed Covenant, Scott should have stuck to his guns and followed his original vision. People don't know what they want until you give it to them.
Prometheus was brill. Covenant... wtf !?
Covenant sets up it was David who created the Xenomorphs. To be honenst it is still the Engineers who did it. According to Prometheus did they create the black goo and made the first version of the Xenomorph. David did just improve it and made his own thing on the design of the Xeno. :D
So the fandom outcry of Prometheus not having an Alien fucked up what the real sequel to it was going to be?! God damn social media...
It's like the magic tricks: you tell how it works and the magic is gone.
At the end Prometheus expanded the Alien universe, Covenant made it collapse.
I definitely wanted more of the Engineers. We've all seen the Xenomorphs, face-huggers, and chest-bursters for almost 40 years now. The ideas in Prometheus were great, I just wanted a little less ambiguity, and for some of the characters motivations to be hashed out more.
Surprised by Scott's acquiescing to the xenomorph cult as he usually does what he wants. He had an opportunity to do something big with the search for the "Engineers" home world, along the lines of the book sequel to Greg Bear's "Forge of God." But, hey, if destroying a franchise is your thing, John Logan is certainly the one for the job!
I would much prefer if only the neomorph appear in Covenant as a protomorph and just remove the xenomorph entirely. That is so we can see the evolution of how the xenomorph actually came to be step by step from a deacon to a xenomorph, each step being a single movie and less confusing or rushed.
there was a lot of unanswered questions in Prometheus but I like what the film was about, it wasn't really about the xenomorphs it was it's own thing just set in the same universe. making it about the origins of the xenomorphs is a instructing idea but I thought this new film series was going to be more than just a Xenomorph origin story.
Perhaps it would have been better if we had two separate films - a sequel to Prometheus where we get some (but not all) answers, and a dedicated prequel to Alien. Like the way the Xenomorph can create hybrids, in making Prometheus Ridley Scott took original Alien film fans and from them mutated a new life form - Prometheus fans! It was pretty inevitable that one film would never please the original base and the new.
Totally agree with you. I was really looking forward to Alien Covenant continuing in Prometheus steps, asking deep questions and looking for a deeper meaning behind the original movies. Instead, covenant feels a little bit crooked to create action with some of the character/story development bending to accomodate for the xenomorph scenes which didnt need to be there... Would prefer Ridleys original vision
I wasn't mad about there "being no xenos" in Prometheus. I was mad because it was a confusing mess of a plot and NOW it makes no sense in how did the eggs get on the ship in ALIEN if what happened in Covenant is canon.
If Scott or the studio think that the poor response to Prometheus was that it "wasn't enough like Alien(s) and needed more Xenomorphs" then they weren't actually listening to the fans.
I was super hyped for Prometheus... and visually and conceptually it was amazing... but the story, pacing and editing just had some glaring issues. It had a lot of potential, but just fell a little flat. Trying to make "Aliens 2.0" might be great and I hope Alien: Covenant is good but I actually really wanted more of Prometheus... despite being disappointed by it.
What if the crashed ship from the original alien movie and the engineers in that ship would probably answer the question on why humans are made, wants to destroy and also some backstory? It would probably link the movies from the original and prequels. Plus david hates the engineers and maybe he hunts down those last living engineers
the prequel series was intended to lead into the first alien movie, so there had to be xenomorphs eventually.
How the hell did alien covenant distance itself from prometheus? It's basically just a re-skin of prometheus it felt like I was watching the exact same movie
Reading some of the comments. It's funny seeing complaints of bad writing from people who can barely mumble the language. (judging by their writing skills)
C.B Black big difference between fans commenter and a writing who gets paid million for writing.
It's got nothing to do with monies. It was more a question of how it's possible to judge what is bad writing without the knowledge to realise that their own writing is barely legible.
As an Alien fan i wasn't concerned too much of not seeing the xenomorph I was more of amazed how badly the script for Prometheus was written. I mean, it has so many plotholes and nonsense in it that I think is the main reason why Covenant at least to me feels even with xeno disappointing as well.
Just got out of seeing Covenant. I would have liked 2 things: more engineer focused storyline and also the makeup on the engineers in the flashback wasn't very good. They just look more like pasty humans with no hair and interesting nose formations. 2: More of a behind the scenes look of the tinkering david took/did to "perfect" his creation(s) as well as a more psychological explanation as to why he feels the xenos are his end goal. There was a bit of exposition but almost not enough as the horror aspect of the crew getting annihilated took center stage. Overall this was a great movie. It kept me tense throughout (not as always scared/tense as Alien, but still damn good). It still leaves many questions unanswered. The cast did an amazing job.
Can someone explain to how shaw put David back together when she only took davids head in a bag to the new ship to fly away? What did she give birth to davids new body?
I've gone from asking questions about the lore/mythos to asking myself why I don't care about the alien franchise after covenant. Like another youtuber said: "it was not David bombing the engineers it was Ridley bombing all the evidence of Prometheus" Ridley listened to teen-fanboys with shit taste. I love grand sci-fi movies and everything looked like it was setting up something grand with Prometheus, but even Ridley said he was "wrong" about Promotheus but he def. wasn't. This could have been Ridley's starwars and he dropped the ball he stopped believing in himself, it's a damn shame. Now we are back to chasing bugs on a spaceship.. which is fun but nothing really memorable tbh. I really liked Prometheus alot even with it's flaws.. RIP Alien franchise
I actually liked Prometheus. I liked how it was about telling the story of the Space Jockey's (Engineers), and focus on just the xenomorphs. It was more about the actual universe, reality of the setting which Aliens took place in. I was hoping covenent would give more clues on the Engineers. . I also think that they could have blended both Engineers and aliens. I know why Ridly did what he had to do, but same time it shows me to some degree how shallow and simple minded people are. They just wanted the horrific xenomorphs.
To me Ridley Scott missed the point. People wanted the Aliens in the Prometheus set up. They didn't want him to scrap existing characters so we could get Ripley 2.0. The two aren't mutually exclusive since the Alien is just a monster irrespective of our characters.
Alien Covenant is an awesome film and i was very satisfied with how it answered the questions i had left from Prometheus, a very brave and shocking ending to Dr. Elizabeth Shaws journey.
I was surprised how covenant was developing. Before apperenty this was supposed to be moved further away from aliens into something new like engineers and more.
A lot of the beef people have had that I've read has to do with them not liking the crew. They felt that scientists and astronauts would be smarter and that the crew in Prometheus consistently made ridiculous decisions. I personally was very intrigued by the engineers and the way David nuked their little city (even if those creatures don't look exactly like the ones we see in Prometheus) means Ridley Scott is bored of them or unable to add on to their writing (because let's be honest writing a sentient alien species from the ground up is challenging work).
I saw Alien Covenant today and really like it. I feel that David carried the film and it's only as interesting as it is because of his character and the way we can compare him to Walter.
It's a disgrace to Prometheus! I loved the idea in Prometheus like who created us? Why did they hate and want to destroy us? These questions are not answered in Alien: Covenant which is a cliche thriller movie.
Covenant has the dumbest crew in the universe I think. They land on a new planet without helmets and protection. Of course, naturally some of them get infected. No story whatsoever! Only Aliens killing the crew members. I feel like they just ruined a great material created in Prometheus. Please note that Prometheus has been rated 7 on IMDB in 5 years while the rating of Alien: Covenant is 7 in 2 days, which says a lot about the movie itself. Its rating is going down every day. Sorry Ridley Scott but seems like you have been working with wrong people.
If Alien Covenant was ruined by Prometheus, it's on Ridley Scott's head. The amount of science, character believability, continuity rules, and just basic laws of our universe that are discarded, broken, ignored, & cast into an unbelievable pit in both films instead of having been worked out by the scriptwriters or at least by the director in consultation is fucking shameful. Both films tacitly rely on premises that cannot exist in their universe. And this will be most true when the series hooks back up with Ripley, whose ship, by the laws of Special Relativity which govern the universe, should have been through its meeting with the Alien Menace looooong ago.
I really wish Ridley would make a Direcrors Cut. Those deleted scenes really added to the movie. O.O
Alien Covenant was ruined by indecisive "fans".
I would have preferred a sequel directly connecting to Prometheus which continued on david/shaws journey abit more , however Covenant is pleasing the fans that wanted more of the xenomorph and the fans of prometheus at the same time. That saying I absolutely loved covenant , cant wait for Awakening.
I agree with you, I would prefer a continuation of Prometheus. But can it be possible that Ridley Scott lauched part 3 of the story to answer that complain bout lack of xenomorphs in the movie? I think he will focus on part 2 now, more like a continuation of Prometheus. I just don't know if it's a movie centered on David and Dr.Shaw or something else.
It seems that the 4th movie will start abord the Covenant with David and all those colonists and embryos. What do you think?
Hi Hybrid Network, I have not watched the video yet b/c i have not seen Convenant yet however i did want to let you know my thoughts about prometheus, My thinking is that Ridley Scott cow towing to all of his fans wanting this series of movies to be about aliens and not the engineers/space jockey is what ruined the series for myself and really put Ridley in a bad place in my heart im afraid.