ralfy review 739 Extras - How does peat get into whisky ?
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- Опубліковано 13 сер 2018
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This is a wonderful session with you Ralfy ,thanks for sharing your knowledge . Cheers!
Terrific extra Ralfy! I enjoyed your on location explanation of peat a few years ago and it was after that video I tried my first peated whisky and found it to be delightful. Take care, Ossie
I'd like to see distillers trying all sorts of stuff for kilning. I remember Ralfy once floating the idea of using agave (just like with mezcal)! Pulteney could try a kilning run of old boat beams/planks (maybe deconstructed piers), that'd be a truly maritime malt 😉
. . . a Tazmanian distillery used sheep dung, and it worked !
Ah, Tasmania, where SWA has no reach ;)
Most informative indeed! Bravo! Even with the ‘senior moments’ Ralfy lol! Cheers from South Africa 🇿🇦😊🥃!
Wow, that was a big juicy chunk of knowledge that Ralfy just presented, thanks!
Thanks Ralphy!
At the moment I'm particularly enjoying the not overly subtle peatiness in Springbank 10yr. Just a lovely dram that I've also won over to a friend who is a little newer to Scotch single malts.
Great choice, Caleb!
I pour myself a glass of whisky before opening up a UA-cam Ralfy Review. It seems to enhance the experience. Very interesting stuff.
I really enjoyed that video. Hello from Nova Scotia Canada.
Makes me want to try adding a few drops of peated whiskey into some non peated on the shelf to see what they’re like!
Yayyyy my malt mention! :D
The Irish seem to be offering a few choices using peated casks, such as Dunvilles Three Crowns Peated.
. . . gives a softer peat-presence in a gentler style of whisky without dominating or undermining existing flavour-range !
Hi Ralfy, thoroughly enjoyed the review as always. Thank you. Just a wee correction; there should be an "s" in Does.
Who would have thought a a block of dirt would taste and small so good
Soil, dirt, earth, peat whatever you want to call it is incredibly complex chalk-full of all kinds of fungi, microbes, yeast, insects, decay . . . on and on . . .
Glenfiddich also did a whisky matured in peated casks a few years ago. I think it was called something like Caoran Reserve.
. . . . they did, it was not popular with 'fiddich fans.
I've heard there's one on more way; Some malting factories create peated malt just by adding some kind of smoke-extract-liquid to the barley. Not really traditional way that one...
Haha i had a taste of peat water from a stream when i was on Islay.. People thought i was nuts.. but i had to do it.!! So i did and it was nothing like i tought it was.
Just brown water..
Greets from Holland.!
. . . you checked it out, quite right too !
"Incidentally, as smokiness is only imparted by phenols released when the peat is burned, we can safely put that old claim that peaty water helps to make a whisky smoky to bed. If that were the case, every cup of tea on Islay would smell like Lapsang Souchong." ;)
Source: scotchwhisky.com/magazine/features/9293/phenol-fables-peat-s-secrets-uncovered/
Laphroaig Souchong ?
The mention of creosote in connection with scotch reminded me of something. H.L. Mencken, possibly the most famous American non-fiction writer of the early 20th century, once wrote about his father's reaction to trying scotch whisky: "...Scotch whiskey did not come upon the American market until the early nineties. (My father, trying his first shot of it in 1894, carried on in a violent manner, and died, four years later, believing that it was made by quack saloonkeepers in their cellars, of creosote and sweet spirits of nitre.)" So not really a fan of scotch, was the elder Mencken, whom in other Mencken writings is described as a regular drinker of rye whisky, which makes sense, since H.L. Mencken was born in, and grew up in, the state of Maryland, once famous for its rye whisky.
. . . Interesting stuff !
I`m a malt mate, yeah!
Often, brown water that is in contact with rich organics (peat, leaves, humus, etc), for time, it will turn brown. Much of that are organic acids - often fulvic and humic acids. Hence the tannic/acidic flavor. It's common around the world - anywhere water spends time in heavily organic materials - swamps, springs, slow streams, etc. I would wonder about the pH of the acidic water and it's influence in extracting (or not) flavors from the malted barley, etc.
The water goes through a thorough filtration process before it is used by the distillery.
I always thought distilleries use treated purified water - that it was a myth the local water is just tapped from the stream, spring, well etc.
They should do a ltd. Edition run of Pipe Cleaner Whisky.. ? Made whilst rinsing the bottling pipes.
Just watched a bunch of your videos over the years, you look the best in this one. Getting younger by the years?
Are distillery's pipes cleaned pre/post every barrel of single cast whisky?
. . . no, only if neccessary due to flavour variances.
Mmm... creosote. Oh, for bygone days. And I thought it was hard enough relating to folks the joy of tastes like bandaids and iodine. :-)
Charlie, before I put my specs on I mis-read this as 'tastes like bastards and eileen'...!!!!
@@snacklofter if I had a distillery, that is EXACTLY what my scotch would taste like!
Here's a malt mention for you Ralfy. "Hello malty Einstein-Rosen bridges".
Very interesting video as usual ! Cheers!
. . . malt-mentions need to have several words beginning with "m" like malty musclemaking malsters !
ralfydotcom that's what happens when i don't read the notice :/
Once again very interesting. Any plans to review the Ardmore 20? This one has been matured in ex islay casks.
. . . no plans for now.
So where is the actual vatting of different casks taking place? At the bottling plant before filling when they run a batch of Glenfarclas 30yo, distillery sends them casks to be emptied? Is there any quality controls taking place? Someone perhaps sipping from the first bottles, yep this tastes like GF30. Do they rinse the lines and pipes with water or with the next product to be bottled. We at the chemical plant always rinse with next product. Sorry much questions.
. . . always rinse with clean water, thoroughly.
. . . keeps the pipes fresh.
Malt-Mate Check In---August 14, 2018-----9:14pm CST----------I peated my Infinity bottle tonite w/a splash from two different bottles-----Laphroaig & Ardbeg,,,,, Also added a 10th single malt to the bottle from Jura........... Delicious hobby IN MODERATION of course.... :) SLAINTE!
. . . customin' the malt-moments !
Hey Ralfy, any high/medium/low hopes for the new Old Pulteney range of 12, 15 and 18 years old? Is this just marketing for decreasing the age 2 and 3 years respectively?
. . . I await some tasting opportunities with interest !
Time for some more obscure malts... Mannochmore, Glenlossie, Inchgower....?
+Balmenach, imperial, miltonduff
when do we get a tour around the Bothy?
. . . quite possibly on the 10th Anniversary of ralfydotcom !
Lol
Fascinating as always Ralfy! I always thought that Satan put it there. Now I know better.
There is an intereting article by journalist and blogger "DrinkHacker", David Cover. It's a pitty he does not bring sources and also a pitty that he lends some credence to peated water nonsense, nevertheless, he raises the very important point that ppm (or as he prefers to say Pppm - Phenol parts per million) levels quoted on the bottle or in marketing literature have no meaning unless they tell you at what point in the whisky making processs they actually measured the phenol content. I always asumed that most distilleries measured the ppm at the mashing stage to see how peaty the malted barley mash was. I know that Laphroaig and Kilchoman do this. However, acording to David Cover, by the the time it gets to bottling that 35-40 Laphroaig ppm has gone down to (according to him), AROUND 10 ppm. There are however some distilleries, notively from William Grant, who measure ppm levels just before bottling and others straight after the distillation stage ad before filling in casks. They will show far lower ppms yet actually contain more phenols. For instance, the Aisla Bay 1.2 is stated as 22 Pppm but that's at bottling stage. At mashing stage it could have been 50-70 ppm ?
drinkhacker.com/2017/10/08/peat-phenols-and-ppm-why-scotch-tastes-smoky/
Great contributions, Reb, thank you very much! To make things even more complicated, there are different methods for measuring Pppm levels. The article mentions HPL chromatography, but I read elsewhere that colorimetric methods are also common, yet deliver substantially different results (Pppm numbers).
For me it boils down to this: Human beings want numbers, so they are provided with numbers and marketing benefits from that effect.
It´s also about status: Wow, can you believe it, I had that 310 ppm Octomore last night...!
Cheers,
the Doc (my short name according to Roy)
MF&R. Thank you so much for your comment. Could you point me in the direction of some recommended articles on this subject please? I never studied chemisty at school but with my love of whisky, I am finding it increasingly necessary in order to understand the subjects of water sources and pH levels, the science of flavours, copper insteaction and most importantly, how wood influences the flavour of teh whisky during maturation....
Hi Reb, My pleasure! My knowledge stems from whisky books mainly. I have a small collection of those, nothing spectacular (to be mentioned in that context: Whiskies Galore: A Tour of Scotland's Island Distilleries, and Peat Smoke and Spirit).
I fully understand your need, but as a PhD chemist I can assure you that the complexity of the "system" is too high to really control and understand it. Scientifically spoken the number of variables is too vast to really allow for controllable experiments. Keep in mind that we have natural components (maily barley and oak) in the mix and as such they screw up the results (reproducibility). To make it worse, there are some weird statements floating around. Erik Wait mentioned recently that at Ardbeg they said that the peatiness of their water would be very important for the flavour. BS! And last but not least the most important "fluctuating variable" is: The human being...!
Just think about perception of aromas and flavours. Oh my!
Slàinte mhòr, the Doc
Yup, read all of them. Here are my reviews of the books.
rebmordechaireviews.blogspot.com/2018/01/i-thought-id-write-some-briefreviews-of.html
I also tried to read a technical book titled "The Science and Commerce of Whisky" but found it a bit hard going with all the chemical formulas and very frustrating that he skips over the influence on sherry soaked into the cask as a major flavour component of Sherry bombs like Dalmore and Glendronach. I did enjoy his analysis of all the different components in Oak that influence flavours. Le Chayim!
Hi Reb, try this one: www.whisky-news.com/En/reports/Peat_phenol_ppm.pdf
You said that peat can be found all over the world. I live in a swampy area of the US. Is the compressed decomposed marsh grasses considered peat?
. . . in acidic conditions and given enough time, possibly !
Ralfy: A lot of old-time moonshiners "sprouted" their corn before mashing and fermenting. I am surprised some American distillery doesn't do this. A combination of peat and wood smoke is interesting, I would love to try such a whisky.
. . . don't be surprised, it's all about yield and profits with distillers. moonshines knew how to add more flavour through enzymic sprouting activity which also kicked off fermentation as the sugars attracted wild yeasts !
A lot of distilling knowledge in them thar hills!
I often wonder how each grain's own malt would taste. ie whisky from 100% malted rye, wheat, corn... I happen to know that malted rye is delicious in bread, I've made it myself. I have a bottle of older Lot 40 "made with malted rye". can't wait to try it.
I do believe there is a 100% malted rye distilled in the US, not completely sure though. While we are at it, how would a typical bourbon mashbill of 75% malted corn, 13% malted ryeand 12 % malted barley smell and taste?
How would it be if it was peated or dried with wood smoke or a combination thereof? The possibilities are endless. Gosh, I want so bad to be a distiller and brewer. However, I am just an old country lawyer in Arkansas.
It could be very good (or not) but it might not legally be bourbon. But you're the lawyer, what do I know ;-)
Ralfy, are there whiskies made from roasted malt, like dark beers? I've made and roasted my own rye malt and it becomes amazingly aromatic from roasting!
. . . yes, Balvenie did some, but it costs more and yield is less !
For those who are interested there has been scientific research into the chemical differences between peat from different geographical locations and how this could affect whisky: cdn-pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jf803556y
The conclusion is that they could be distinguished chemically, therefore there could be differences in the peated whisky depending on where the peat is from!
Remember how you made that Peated Cigar?
Do you have a good method for making Peat Incense Sticks?
Hi Ralfy. Interesting vlog on peat. I would be interested to know your thoughts on how coastal (salty/briney) notes get into whisky. Is it just through the air where barrels are kept near the coast? Also. I sometimes struggle to distinguish between peat and coastal influence (Bowmore/Highland Park). Would appreciate your thoughts Ralfy. Cheers
. . . it's an odd one that ! there is more than thre atmosphere at work and it's hard to understand, high-altutude distilleries like Benrinnes also have some matitime notes. Pulteney and Springbank are two obvious examples.
If you don't know then I doubt many out there do know. I am fond of coastal flavours so would love to find out. I wonder if the likes of Pulteney, Scapa, Oban etc. explain this on their tours. I am a fan of the Benrinnes Flora and Fauna bottle, dont remember the maritime aspect but maybe that is why I liked it. I guess this one is for us to ponder about for now. Cheers Ralfy.
Theres a bourbon called Jeffersons Aged at Sea which is stored on a boat during maturation. It claims to obtain maritime flavours due to this process. I haven't tried it...too pricey for the risk.
Ohhhhh, to get a taste from that “OVERPEATED” Laphroiag cask 😍😍😍😍😍
Just buy a 10yo cask strength batch of Laphroaig. Or get yourself some ileach cask strength. If your pockets are a little deeper check ardbeg supernova. These are in my opinion the most heavily peated whiskies to be found on planet earth :D
Dram of Clynelish 14 at the moment
Ralfy, thoughts (blend marks :-) ) on 'Big Peat', 'Peat Monster' or 'Smokehead' blends...?
Would have to be malt marks, those are not blends, they are blended malts. That is: no grain in them.
It's confusing after they stoped using the term "vat" for the all malt blendings.
. . . decent but generally 'younger' tasting in cask influence/roundness.
I noticed that the United States wasn't mentioned as a place where peat is found (which I know doesn't mean the exclusion was on purpose). The thing about American peat is that because of US environmental protection legislation harvesting peat in the US is illegal. That's likely why American craft distilleries making use of peated malt just import the stuff from Scotland.
. . . harvesting peat in the U.S. illegal ? . . . sponsored laws bought by power Companies. The 'environment protection' mantra is just an distraction. The U.S. is well supplied with peat bogs, but not as much as Canada.
yet for gardening I buy 3 cu.ft. bags of sweet peatmoss for $10.
The moss is different than the underlying peat, no? Could also be imported from a country than doesn't have the same laws, like Canada.
No, it's the actual peat, in dry powder form. I'll check where it's from, out of curiosity.
RALFY...Are your reviews rated on an absolute scale or does the cost affect your rating?
. . . I simply rate as I find the experience, within some cost-constraints.
Ralfy, have you ever tried Danish whisky? "Stauning" is a very popular Danish whisky and Diageo has recently invested about 10 mio pounds in the company. Have you ever heard about Stauning?
. . . yes, but what in the UK is generally expensive and non-age statement stuff.
Does peaty water make the malt more * mineraly * though, @RalfyDotCom?
Minerals being ions (salt) will not pass the stills, so mineraliy can only come from subsequent (after distillation) sources (mainly casks).
Greetings to Hongkong!
Thank you 感谢您的信息！
. . . more the grain minerality that counts rather than the water, but water 'flavour' will affect spirits as does ph balance.
Thank you Ralfy! What do you mean with "ph balance"? Be precise, I´m a PhD chemist... :-)
Am I wrong to think that peated water tastes like peat and peated whisky tastes like peat smoke ?
. . . peat has virtually no flavour, it's the peat smoke that expresses peatiness 99%
Technically very true. But as "peated" is implicitly always presumed to mean "peat smoky", this distinction is not made by any distillery (marketing department) I would know of. In this way it's misguiding.
Likewise, looking at it from the smoky flavor point of view, not all of the phenol/creosol compounds that produce a smoky, ashy... taste come from peat smoke but also charred casks and some even develop during fermentation. :-)
Could you do a review on Shackleton blended malt scotch whisky British Antarctic expeditiin
. . . if it had an age statement !
Creosote contains phenol! Here we go...
So where do I get my hands on peat bricks to burn so I can make my house smell delicious? Because I would totally be up for that!
. . . look for your local peat bog and dig up a shovel or two.
Thanks for the info Ralfy. You are aware you sound like you're in an echo pit right? :)
. . . it's the stone walls of the bothy !
Malt Mention: "Marvelous Mechanical Malty Mouth-organs" Bagpuss 1970's Kids TV x
. . . now on the M-mention List, thanks !
Ralfy......can you do a review of your top ten highest rated single malts?
😏👌
imagine cold smoking salmon using peat,,erckkk i dont think it would be a good taste
Would whoever took Ralfy's Ralfy.com sign please give it back.
. . . it fell off for this vlog !
What is a "malt mention"? You say it in every episode, but I have no idea what that is lol. Are people from other UA-cam channels mentioning you and you're thanking them?
Us Malt Mates can think of Malt Mentions in the comments. Something like, "Hello Malty Meshuggah Metalheads!" And Ralfy chooses which of these he'll use to start the episodes!
Ah, ok thanks
. . . Evan answers . . . and he's spot on !
I think he deserves a Malt Mention, if/when he suggests one :)
Hello Malty Rolling Stoners...
i guess peat is to whisky what hops is to beer