D'Onofrio is perfect casting but Duncan never got enough credit for the work he put into his body for that movie. He switched to power lifting for his portrayal. The scenes where he lifted Affleck, he did that! Fun fact: John Rhys-Davies played Kingpin in a TV movie! Trial of the Incredible Hulk. Rex Smith was Daredevil.
I can admit that even though I knew Kingpin was a white character traditionally, kid me cared so little about race-swapping, or just race in general, that I just saw an awesome portrayal of an interesting character by an amazing actor.
My favourite kingpin moment was that time that Ultimate Spiderman had enough and beat the _hell_ out of him, and threatened to rip him and his empire apart if things went any further. Kingpin replied "I've bought all image rights, copyrights, and trademarks relating to spiderman. Every act of heroism you perform only makes me richer. Anytime someone you've saved buys spider merch to show their support of you, I'm the only one who benefits from it." Well, it was something like that.
24:50 This was from the aftermath of an issue of Secret Wars 2 where the Beyonder turned a high-rise building into gold. Kingpin's men worked with some G-men to seal off that part of the city and keep the event a secret, because of the fear that so much gold suddenly appearing would destroy the world's economy. Fisk got his share, and the remainder was sunk into the Mariana trench.
Vacation Kingpin from the Hawkeye show really tickled me. There's something about the most powerful man in NYC wearing a floral print Hawaiian shirt with a white fedora that has that certain je ne c'est quoi
I've wondered this myself, I think the switch when people started complaining about representation online was around 2015/16 when BuzzFeed made that video about man spreading, I dont think that was the catalyst but it was around that time. The awful internet era of commentary channels complaining about "radical feminism" it just went downhill from there I also think that was the time when an older generation started to use smartphones and Facebook which I dont think helped
Watch some interviews of Vincent D'Onofrio out of character, or indeed watch his other movies (Full Metal Jacket springs to mind, as does Adventures in Babysitting where he (kind of) plays Thor!), and you'll see just how fucking brilliant an actor he really is. For a start, that voice he does as Kingpin is totally put on; his normal speaking voice is much higher, almost boyish.
Wislon Fisk is like a Hippopotamus, you may think they're just fat and not really physically built, but no.... under that surface is barely any fat and all freakin' muscle, hell Hippos have so little fat they can't Float, and they chase boats by bouncing off the riverbed o_o
The think identity politics were not as hot button issue at the time of these earlier castings. Yes, there is (and probably always has been) a subsector of the internet that makes a big deal if the race/gender of characters they care about are changed. However, I think most people don't care as long as the new portrayal looks cool and embodies the nature of the character. Michael Clark Duncan Kingpin, Jason Momoa Aquaman, Tilda Swinton Ancient One, Samuel L. Jackson Nick Fury, most people are fine with those casting choices. I think it helped a lot that the original characters originally being white men was mentioned briefly as a fun fact, not as a major talking point for diversity points. (At least from what I saw)
I'm not the end all be all but I'm pretty sure Marvel drew the new Nick Fury and he looked very very similar to Sam Jackson and when his lawyers (or whoever) brought it up to him and wanted to do something about it he said "nah mutha fucka. We gettin fuckin paid." Edit for clarity. Nick Fury looked like Jackson in the comics before Jackson played Fury in the movies.
Commented too soon, Younger Toguro is my favorite Large and In-Charge character. His power is super strength and a healing factor, but he is more terrifying than 90% of villains today.
The race/gender swapping thing doesn’t bother me unless it becomes a weird form of exploitative marketing. I don’t really care if you swap characters around like that. Sometimes it makes movies more interesting. But when it’s sold as a marketing point like “look how in-touch with society us corporate Hollywood shills are!” That’s when I get annoyed, because it’s almost like reverse-racism. I don’t know, maybe I’m reading too much into it.
Seeing as you lads never asked the question: _Would _*_you_*_ gas up Michael Clark Duncan for playing a classically white portrayed character? Look at the man. _*_I certainly would not. That man can play whatever role he chooses._*
John Rhys Davis played Kingpin in _The Trial of the Incredible Hulk,_ (tv movie- 1989) a "backdoor pilot" for _Daredevil_ show. It wasn't very good. That's something that annoys me about my generation. We like to pretend that our old shows were better than what we get today. They really weren't. We were just kids at the time and didn't know better.
Kingpin in my opinion is spider mans best villen because hes just a man with power spider man cant just beat him up he has to bring his crimes to light and get him arrested but due to his connections its almost impossible which makes spider man question his very purpose as spider man. Many times he gets low enough to consider killing him and haveing to make a willing decision to houner his uncles memory and the idea of spider man
This is the first time I have heard of Echo getting a show. I have disney+ and don't bother to turn off the push notifications. How did they so badly advertise this?
In all fairness, with the Nick Fury/Samuel L. Jackson casting, there was already a precedent for black Nick Fury, based ON the likeness of Jackson, in the Ultimate Marvel Universe, so comic readers at that point may have already been somewhat accustomed or at least familiarized with that change, thus lessening the impact on THOSE watchers.
Michael Clarke Duncan is the best live action Kingpin with D'Onofrio the second best. John Rhys-Davies was good for The Trial of the Incredible Hulk TV movie.
It was gamegate when people realized how much money there was to be made crying about sjw or later, woke stuff. when crying about any alterations to characters involving gender or race came up. i mean obviously it started to build up a little before that but GG made it HUGE business.
I'd say that it was around 2014-2019 when the anti-SJW Era happened when these weirdos started cropping up. And a lot of this was linked with the Atheist Era of UA-cam in the early years when you had all these channels debating about and criticizing religion. Since there's only so many times you can say "the world's older than 6K years" before people start getting bored, they moved over to criticising feminism, specifically hounding the likes of Anita Sarkeesian who was criticizing the portrayal of women in video games. Gamergate happened in 2014 when some dickhead got dumped by his girlfriend, Zoe Quinn who was a video game developer, who then recruited redditors and 4chan users to hound them (Quinn uses they/them pronouns), resulting in doxxing, rape threats and death threats. They tried to hide behind claims of being "concerned about unethical practices in video game reviews" but it was all bullshit.
MCD was the only good thing about the Daredevil movie. He was so physically intimidating. There was however one other live action Kingpin. John Rhese Davies (yes Gimli) was the first in the Hulk TV series
I feel the Race swapping thing became an issue once they started pumping out a lot of big budget movies that were bad. The Live-action Disney remakes have been poorly received as far as I know, I never watched them. But the first thing we learned about The Little Mermaid is that a Black woman was cast as Ariel. The outrage videos online conflate the poor writing and lack of care in their casting with "The Liberal Agenda." Shawshank Redemption, in contrast, made Red, an Irish redhead, Black but no one seemed to care because the movie was good. Maybe 2010-11 was the turning point, we got The Lightning Thief, The Karate Kid, and The Last Airbender.
Hmmm, now that you mention it. The example of the Last Airbender did get the race criticisms in as further proof that little care was made to understand the source material. So I wonder if you got a point that people started looking for race swaps as a hint that the movie might just be a straight cash grab with little care made to actually make a good movie.
Im nearly 50 now, a lot of the race swaps made me uncomfortable, mostly as I grew up with the comics...it took me telling myself that this MCU, is one of the multiverses, so things can be different, my fanboy nearly walked me out of Daredevil when i saw Fisk.
People complaining about race swapping has always been a thing it was just more racist before with white people instead of playing as a character that just so happens to be white now, they would be white playing as a character that isnt white. But now its been 2 sides of the same coin complaining about the same thing but saying the other side is doing it wrong.
D'Onofrio is perfect casting but Duncan never got enough credit for the work he put into his body for that movie. He switched to power lifting for his portrayal. The scenes where he lifted Affleck, he did that! Fun fact: John Rhys-Davies played Kingpin in a TV movie! Trial of the Incredible Hulk. Rex Smith was Daredevil.
I can admit that even though I knew Kingpin was a white character traditionally, kid me cared so little about race-swapping, or just race in general, that I just saw an awesome portrayal of an interesting character by an amazing actor.
@@seanbordenkircher7854 Duncan had that booming voice. Classic. Nice guy, from what I could tell.
My favourite kingpin moment was that time that Ultimate Spiderman had enough and beat the _hell_ out of him, and threatened to rip him and his empire apart if things went any further.
Kingpin replied "I've bought all image rights, copyrights, and trademarks relating to spiderman. Every act of heroism you perform only makes me richer. Anytime someone you've saved buys spider merch to show their support of you, I'm the only one who benefits from it."
Well, it was something like that.
Actually kingpin had him tied to a chair and beat his ass, not spidey's best day
@@asdasasdas3476 i knew i wasn't remembering it correctly, thanks
24:50 This was from the aftermath of an issue of Secret Wars 2 where the Beyonder turned a high-rise building into gold. Kingpin's men worked with some G-men to seal off that part of the city and keep the event a secret, because of the fear that so much gold suddenly appearing would destroy the world's economy. Fisk got his share, and the remainder was sunk into the Mariana trench.
Fisk is married to Typhoid Mary now in the comics. But this means that he was defending mutants, unlike most of the world.
He’s probably the most absurd comic character and I like it
It still baffles me how the alien in the first Men in Black also plays The Kingpin, what a range he has!
and Lawrence (Gomer Pyle) in Full Metal Jacket
You answered your own question. Twitter wasn't around for the first daredevil. That's it.
Vacation Kingpin from the Hawkeye show really tickled me. There's something about the most powerful man in NYC wearing a floral print Hawaiian shirt with a white fedora that has that certain je ne c'est quoi
People forget the only known organic webber was the Toby Maguire version, the rest make a chemical version thats used through webshooters
You do know that Spider-man 2099 has had organic webbing since his first appearance in 1994
I've wondered this myself, I think the switch when people started complaining about representation online was around 2015/16 when BuzzFeed made that video about man spreading, I dont think that was the catalyst but it was around that time. The awful internet era of commentary channels complaining about "radical feminism" it just went downhill from there
I also think that was the time when an older generation started to use smartphones and Facebook which I dont think helped
Appreciate you playing that banger at the end
08:30 In answer to your question, Gamergate is when it really kicked off for those types to start getting real traction.
I say the point that people were "concerned" about race swapping was around the Gamergate era and 2016.
Spiffy jacket I dig it
Watch some interviews of Vincent D'Onofrio out of character, or indeed watch his other movies (Full Metal Jacket springs to mind, as does Adventures in Babysitting where he (kind of) plays Thor!), and you'll see just how fucking brilliant an actor he really is. For a start, that voice he does as Kingpin is totally put on; his normal speaking voice is much higher, almost boyish.
Wislon Fisk is like a Hippopotamus, you may think they're just fat and not really physically built, but no.... under that surface is barely any fat and all freakin' muscle, hell Hippos have so little fat they can't Float, and they chase boats by bouncing off the riverbed o_o
They're faster than you'd think on land, too.
@@eldorados_lost_searcherI know learning that, really assured me of the fact that they're the most dangerous animal in Africa...
The think identity politics were not as hot button issue at the time of these earlier castings. Yes, there is (and probably always has been) a subsector of the internet that makes a big deal if the race/gender of characters they care about are changed. However, I think most people don't care as long as the new portrayal looks cool and embodies the nature of the character. Michael Clark Duncan Kingpin, Jason Momoa Aquaman, Tilda Swinton Ancient One, Samuel L. Jackson Nick Fury, most people are fine with those casting choices. I think it helped a lot that the original characters originally being white men was mentioned briefly as a fun fact, not as a major talking point for diversity points. (At least from what I saw)
I'm not the end all be all but I'm pretty sure Marvel drew the new Nick Fury and he looked very very similar to Sam Jackson and when his lawyers (or whoever) brought it up to him and wanted to do something about it he said "nah mutha fucka. We gettin fuckin paid."
Edit for clarity. Nick Fury looked like Jackson in the comics before Jackson played Fury in the movies.
I laughed my head off the first time i saw kingpin in spiderverse. Id only seen the afleck movie version. That mountain of a man was awesome
I'm STILL getting adverts on UA-cam for _Loki_ Season 2! Every time I see one, I get annoyed that Disney/Marvel aren't promoting _Echo..._
It's not about the money, Spiderman. It's about the Mets.
Commented too soon, Younger Toguro is my favorite Large and In-Charge character. His power is super strength and a healing factor, but he is more terrifying than 90% of villains today.
The Sam Jackson nick fury existed before Sam Jackson played nick fury he is the son of the original
The race/gender swapping thing doesn’t bother me unless it becomes a weird form of exploitative marketing. I don’t really care if you swap characters around like that. Sometimes it makes movies more interesting. But when it’s sold as a marketing point like “look how in-touch with society us corporate Hollywood shills are!” That’s when I get annoyed, because it’s almost like reverse-racism. I don’t know, maybe I’m reading too much into it.
I actually really enjoyed echo hopefully it gets a season 2
People cared about the first Daredevil's Kingpin casting... Until they saw him act.
Kingpin is a fun villain
I Love this channel.
Seeing as you lads never asked the question: _Would _*_you_*_ gas up Michael Clark Duncan for playing a classically white portrayed character? Look at the man. _*_I certainly would not. That man can play whatever role he chooses._*
For me, race swapping is perfectly viable. If done correctly. Duncan and Jackson are two prime examples.
WTH i didn't know Echo was a thing till it was mentioned here well i know what I'm going to watch next.
John Rhys Davis played Kingpin in _The Trial of the Incredible Hulk,_ (tv movie- 1989) a "backdoor pilot" for _Daredevil_ show.
It wasn't very good.
That's something that annoys me about my generation. We like to pretend that our old shows were better than what we get today. They really weren't. We were just kids at the time and didn't know better.
Kingpin uses conqueror Haki
'VANESSA.'
Kingpin in my opinion is spider mans best villen because hes just a man with power spider man cant just beat him up he has to bring his crimes to light and get him arrested but due to his connections its almost impossible which makes spider man question his very purpose as spider man. Many times he gets low enough to consider killing him and haveing to make a willing decision to houner his uncles memory and the idea of spider man
This is the first time I have heard of Echo getting a show. I have disney+ and don't bother to turn off the push notifications. How did they so badly advertise this?
In all fairness, with the Nick Fury/Samuel L. Jackson casting, there was already a precedent for black Nick Fury, based ON the likeness of Jackson, in the Ultimate Marvel Universe, so comic readers at that point may have already been somewhat accustomed or at least familiarized with that change, thus lessening the impact on THOSE watchers.
I now want Nick Cave in the MCU. Let's make Dr Strange goth.
Michael Clarke Duncan is the best live action Kingpin with D'Onofrio the second best. John Rhys-Davies was good for The Trial of the Incredible Hulk TV movie.
Private Pile is scary
7:23 is it social media like twitter I’m not calling it x
I call it twittex for greater mockery.
For me i think its around 2009-2014 thats the start .
Then 2016 is when its all changed
It was gamegate when people realized how much money there was to be made crying about sjw or later, woke stuff. when crying about any alterations to characters involving gender or race came up. i mean obviously it started to build up a little before that but GG made it HUGE business.
Face off 2: nic cage and sam l Jackson
I'd say that it was around 2014-2019 when the anti-SJW Era happened when these weirdos started cropping up. And a lot of this was linked with the Atheist Era of UA-cam in the early years when you had all these channels debating about and criticizing religion. Since there's only so many times you can say "the world's older than 6K years" before people start getting bored, they moved over to criticising feminism, specifically hounding the likes of Anita Sarkeesian who was criticizing the portrayal of women in video games.
Gamergate happened in 2014 when some dickhead got dumped by his girlfriend, Zoe Quinn who was a video game developer, who then recruited redditors and 4chan users to hound them (Quinn uses they/them pronouns), resulting in doxxing, rape threats and death threats. They tried to hide behind claims of being "concerned about unethical practices in video game reviews" but it was all bullshit.
MCD was the only good thing about the Daredevil movie. He was so physically intimidating. There was however one other live action Kingpin. John Rhese Davies (yes Gimli) was the first in the Hulk TV series
I feel the Race swapping thing became an issue once they started pumping out a lot of big budget movies that were bad. The Live-action Disney remakes have been poorly received as far as I know, I never watched them. But the first thing we learned about The Little Mermaid is that a Black woman was cast as Ariel. The outrage videos online conflate the poor writing and lack of care in their casting with "The Liberal Agenda." Shawshank Redemption, in contrast, made Red, an Irish redhead, Black but no one seemed to care because the movie was good. Maybe 2010-11 was the turning point, we got The Lightning Thief, The Karate Kid, and The Last Airbender.
Hmmm, now that you mention it. The example of the Last Airbender did get the race criticisms in as further proof that little care was made to understand the source material. So I wonder if you got a point that people started looking for race swaps as a hint that the movie might just be a straight cash grab with little care made to actually make a good movie.
Im nearly 50 now, a lot of the race swaps made me uncomfortable, mostly as I grew up with the comics...it took me telling myself that this MCU, is one of the multiverses, so things can be different, my fanboy nearly walked me out of Daredevil when i saw Fisk.
I’m not a big fan of the character echo just haven’t read enough of her. Is the series good to watch it sounds good but marvel has been hit or miss?
Nobody cares about race swapping as long as the character is embodied and respected. Ffs it’s literally called ACTING
First View, woooo!
People complaining about race swapping has always been a thing it was just more racist before with white people instead of playing as a character that just so happens to be white now, they would be white playing as a character that isnt white. But now its been 2 sides of the same coin complaining about the same thing but saying the other side is doing it wrong.
You've reminded me of the stories of when DC comics first introduced John Stuart as Green Lantern. There was a lot of vitriol about it apparently.