Why Zeon Lost !
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- Опубліковано 14 сер 2024
- In this Video we will take a look at why Zeon Lost the One Year War. We will go over the pivotal battles that Zeon had to win to win the conflict.
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![5 Reasons Why Zeon Lost The One Year War [Remastered]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eJU8_1_vmDM/mqdefault.jpg)
The original Gundam series is very much a WWII allegory. With Zeon being a German/Japanese stand in. And The Earth Federation taking the spot of The US/Soviet union. Ultimately like in the real world conflict. The difference in access to resources made the difference.
Honestly it’s precisely this that I always get super uncomfortable whenever people try to label Zeon as “the true good guys.” Zeon is basically just Nazi Germany with the main difference being that you rarely have a focus on why the soldiers of Zeon are fighting. Sometimes it’s because they want freedom or want to just punch it to the feds, but there are also a lot of strong hints that there are racist, supremacist ideologies that Zeon fights for. I mean, it’s really clear that’s why Patricide Zabi is fighting but you see a lot of Nazi rally imagery and I wish we had more Gundam anime that talk about the fact that war may have been necessary to stop genocide and the true horror of normal people becoming so cold and uncaring about the deaths of the lessers, of in Gundam terms, “those who’s souls are weighed down by gravity.” Initially Zeon may have held legitimacy in its attempts to break free of a corrupt government, but they eventually evolved into a force hellbent on mass murder and genocide in the name of a holly war that had to be stopped.
@@skeetskeet7041 There are no "good guys" factions in Gundam, neither in the original nor in any spin off series. The Earth federation for example was just as bad if not worse then Zeon. Atleast Zeon had the moral justification of throwing off the slavery that the federation put it and other space colonies under (wich ofcourse went out of the window the moment they decided to gas an entire space colony and use it as a strategic weapon against the federation).
The Racial supremacy undertones where also very strong inside the federation. I mean they saw spacenoids as second or third rate citizens at best who didnt deserve the same rights as given to those who where born on earth. Also the titans where a direct result of this anti spacenoid sentiment despite the fact that most colonies did not side with Zeon during the OYW. Yet the titans would gas entire colonies to "keep the peace" and no one batted an eye. So these themes again, are not Zeon exclusive. (Infact outside of ghireen building up a cult of personality around him like a good aspiring dictator there where no other Zabi family mambers in Zeon that preached their racial supremacy)
As in reality there are good and bad people on both sides and as these things usually turn out the good people are on the lower rungs of the decision making ladder, while the higher top brass mostly being corrupt powermongers that couldnt give less of a f. about anything but their own bottomline or ideas.
That is why gundam is a great anti-war series.
@@riptors9777 never said there were, I said people (as in fans) would make that argument. My point about cake and eating it too is that fundamentally, when a cause for war is embedded with the sense of superiority and takes center stage as far as motives are concerned, you lose pretty much all rights to any validity or moral defense. By the time the one year war starts Zeon is no longer fighting for independence but thanks to Ghiren it’s fighting for supremacy. His speeches and the reaction they cause draw a direct parallel to nazi germany’s eugenics speeches and while this is great for building up an enemy faction that must be taken down at all costs in order to stop horrible things from happening, it poisons the well for any humanity you try to draw. Take Ramba Ral. Fan favorite but during the origin stories they kind of realized that while making the Zabi family more overtly supremacist-nazi archetypes, that would in thrn make Ral a high-ranking officer fighting for a genocidal cause so they re-worked his character to be resistant to the new zeon way of functioning, hateful towards the Zabis for killing his dad/ruining his reputation, and even was given a scene where he refuses to partake in gassing a colony. Ral in origin is a pretty loose take on “the good nazi” archetype, the german soldier who lived with nobility and strength but refused to commit to the horrors that he later realizes his country has committed. This kind of came as a result of people not wanting to believe the Nazis knew what they were doing and to excuse away civilians supporting things like the camps and executions by saying “everyone was tricked.” But gundam doesn’t really do that. Instead it kind of ignores the whole aspect of zeon being a supremacist state fighting for eugenics. In the OG Ral seems to be a kind man sure, but he’s also fighting for a cause that would see most people on earth be murdered. The tragedy of that party and how they rose to power wasn’t the soldiers fighting for freedom, or the noble warriors who were otherwise good people, it’s that the overwhelming majority of those who fought did so knowingly and willingly. Of course Gundam lore is different, but my criticism is that it should at least try to address these things if it draws so heavily from irl events and peoples. Making “war is bad” themes while humanizing those fighting for eugenics by ignoring said eugenics loses a lot of punch and when brought back up, kind of justifies the whole war. Obviously I don’t think war is a good thing and we all should pull a McGillis, but the ESFS like the Allies, while brutal and certainly beyond questionable in their methods (just ask france how they feel about Churchill) they were justified. A war of defense is much easier to justify than offense and a war against a genocidal faction where the soldiers willingly commit to the cause will always be justified. This isn’t to excuse war crimes, those aren’t excusable even in the name if defeating an objective evil, but it’s important to understand why soldiers are fighting and the true reason “war is evil” in these situations. To try and make it out that the average Zeon soldier was fighting for freedom and was just as good as any other person is kind of just, wrong. The horror was that like the nazis, they fought for supremacy. They knew what they were doing. And like the nazis, they were still humans. Humans who we desperately tried to turn into unfeeling monsters so we wouldn’t think others were capable of the things that they did. At the end of the day, they were human, and others are too. And that’s the danger, de-humanizing the enemy to make it ok in your mind to ignore the steps needed to prevent further war and a rebirth of the ideologies that will lead to another war. But again, Gundam never really addresses this. It’s the one problem I have and it’s rooted in the obsession with having an anti-war theme. Of all things Gundam Wing Endless Waltz has a more realistic outlook of “peace is an ideal worth striving for, but you must also be prepared to defend that ideal when others threaten your safety, liberty, and life.” I genuinely don’t care about labeling either the Feddies or the Siegs as “more right or more wrong,” both are terrible, this is more to point out a glaring issue that often gets so readily glossed over thanks to the show itself starting these themes then never really touching up on them other than to complete an aesthetic (soace nazis look cool so lets give them the speeches and motives just to finish the set.) I live gundam and always will, but I genuinely think this deserve more exploration and would have loved to see a series deep dive into Zeon forces that truly show off the mind games their nation played with them and how the radicalization of young soldiers progressed in a war for genetic supremacy. Maybe have it follow an old officer like Ral who’s tasked with a younger squad who’s far more zealous than he is and his steadily growing discomfort with the rhetoric they’ve learned until they come face to face with Feddie forces and the boys refuse to have their minds changed and still fight even if there is no reason to at the time because they’ve bought into the narrative.
@@skeetskeet7041 Okay first of: Zeons goal was never to murder the entire population of earth, that is absolute nonsense. Nor was Zeon as a whole ever of that opinion.
Second: As i said before, Ghireen was the ONLY one in his family who used "spacenoids superior" nazi speech and faced HEAVY resistance from every other member of his family including his father who actually did compare him to hitler and after murdering his father, was in turn killed by kycillia.
Thing is: Ghiren had build himselfe such a powerbase that he could no longer be disposed of that easaly or removed from the position of supreme leader.
Kycillia could only get rid of him after he admitted that he had basically killed the supreme leader and father.
Asside from that Zeons occupation of earth was like any other military Occupation in history. There where no big stories of massacres or other warcrimes against the civilian populace of earth, no concentration camps or industrialized murder like they happened under nazi germany...
So while Ghiren and his followers can be compared to nazis, the rest of Zeon hardly ever acted like them.
As to ramba ral:
Really? It makes you uncomfortable that he wasnt a genocidal racist douchebag? Why? Because it makes you feel uncomfortable to humanize the antagonists in the show? To show that at the end of the day soldiers are soldiers and not either heros or monsters?
Ral was not a follower of Ghiren, he was under Dozels command. And Dozel was not concerned with any Superiority nonsense, he was solely concerned with winning the War for his country, just like the soldiers under him.
And might i remind you: The common soldier of Zeon was lied to as to the gassing of the colony. It was a Top secret fact only known to the higher echelon that the entire populace of that colony was gassed. The only other people who knew where the pilots who actually gassed the colony and they where promoted and forced to remain silent of become part of the MIA statistic.
So while it is reasonable to assume that every Zeon soldier knew about the colony drop, it is also reasonable to assume that the common zeon soldier had no idea about the fact that the populace of that colony was gassed beforehand.
As to the origin:
A: Its not canon to the main story line.. its its own thing
and B: its bad writing on Rals part. After everything the Zabis did to his family, to him personally, and commiting to the warcrimes of attacking neutral colonies and dropping an entire colony on earth (even here he was not informed about the fact that toxin gas was used to outright kill the populace of the colony, he saw the usage of a colony as a strategic weapon as a warcrime) he STILL ends up fighting for Zeon? Yeah no... at that point it would have made more sense for him to either defect or turn neutral and piss off to some other colony not involved yet in the war.
@@skeetskeet7041 Do you get super uncomfortable when you see Nike shoes and Apple phones, they are made by slave labour. No? Wow well at least you are tackling the big problems like how people react to a cartoon.
I think your breakdown of each major battle in the OYW does a good job of explaining why Zeon lost those battles but not why they lost the war. There were underlying issues you could have talked about to better explain why they lost. Zeon devoted far too many resources to high spec, one off MA and MS, much like the Nazis did. You could have made the comparison between the GM and Gelgoog representing the Sherman and the Tiger. While a Gelgoog was far superior to a single GM, a GM was never alone. The Gelgoog should have been prioritised earlier in the war as by the time it rolled out it only had a handful of veterans to pilot it. Zeon's main force in its final battle were made up of trainees. Whereas the EFF had rewarded a lot of its aces with GM Commands, Sniper II's, etc. Simple upgrades to the GM vs an entirely new machine.
You have a great foundation to grow and your delivery of information is effective and engaging. I am excited to see your next upload!
To be honest I'd compare the Gelgoog more to the Panther than the Tiger, both WERE supposed to replace the aging Zakus/Panzer III and IVs respectively but by the point any could be made in any large number it was too little too late.
@@kabob0077 The panzer 3 was put out of comission far before the panther showed up, and the panzer 4 was still in full production till the end of the war. The nazis mainly tried to come up with wunderwaffen because they did not have the manpower to crew massive amounts of fighting vehicles anymore. Yes you could produce 4 panzer 4s for the cost of a single tiger or so.. but where do you take the tank crews for those 4 panzer 4s?
So the nazis decision to invest into more capable but overly expensive weapons was understandable.. if ultimately futile.
Also in my eyes: Dom = Panther, Gelgoog = Tiger tank XD
They didnt have a plot armor as thick as the feddies
I like how you make your content detailed while also being easy to digest for casual viewers! I'm definitely subscribing.
1. Letting Revil escape
2. Wasting tremendous amounts of resources on Wunderwaffen that could be destroyed by feddy grunt MS armed with beam spray guns
3. Having a gazillion different MS wich all require different spare parts to keep operational instead of concentrating on a few key chassis with interchangable parts
4. Implementing the United Maintenance plan when it was allready to late
5. Corruption and infighting not only inbetween different parts of the army but in the Zabi family itselfe
6. Letting char back into the military by Kycillia even though his involvement in Garmas death was more then just a bit sus
7. Not finishing off the Federated forces in space
8. Engaging in ground warfare instead of besieging earth and cutting it off from space
9. Horribly underprepared for planetary warfare and completly neglecting air superiority (their jetfighters where garbage) allowing the Federation to transport men and material allmost unhindered all over earth per planes.
10. Wasting so many of their Key pilots hunting down the white base wich in overall terms had very little influence on the war itselfe. The impact it had was mostly because zeon kept throwing so much resources at hunting it down. Leaving the rest of the federation free to develope their own MS in peace and execute all sorts of other operations while Zeons eyes where glued to the trojan horse.
Extra:
11 Not giving Ramba Ral the Doms he was suposed to receive (Seriously, check out the ghireens greed strategy games, if you give Ral the Doms like Dozel wanted and overrule Mquve he single handedly destroys the gundam and captures the white base, saving the lives of dozens of Zeon Aces)
so in short... mquve and poor planni g for a long fight
I disagree on the ral fromt. The black stars needed time to get use to the doms and unquie style needed to fully use them switching suits like that is a bad idea. As hunters would tell you, you are hunting a man eating lion and you go in without your preference gun. Good luck.
Now if the black stars and ral had teamed up, the gouf and the doms all at their best. Yes, white base likely falls.
@@TheWarshire You can disagree, but that is what literally happens in the ghireens greed games if you give Ral the Doms he was promised. Mind you it is not made clear when he receives the Doms in the game since events can take several turns till they play out, so he might have had ample time to get used to the Dom. With the Doms, Ramba and his unit take down the White base and the Gundam. Also Ramba was a MUCH better pilot then the black tri stars who mostly relied on their teamwork and werent that good on their own while Ramba was a legid one man army, who only got beaten because the gundam was a much more powerfull machine then the Gouf.
@riptors9777 You forgot that Zeon wouldn't able to mass produce the Big Zam.
@@kendonl.taylor5111 Thats covered with the wunderwaffen they kept on churning out. Even the Neue Ziel was basically a project started under old Zeon, and the Zeong too even though they barely managed to get it functional in time for the last battle. Considering how long it takes modern militaries to design and produce entirely new weapon systems i dont want to know how much money, material and manpower was invested into every single one of these mobile armors wich in the end where all one shotted (except for the big zam i guess) by "simple" mobile suits equipped with beam rifles.
Had they focused on the gelgoog instead of wasting so much on mobile armors and rolled that machine out even a month prior they could have survived the OYW
M'Quve: - Is born and given Command -
Char: - Exists -
Earth Federation: GG Mate.
M'Quve's logistical skill was immense, and generally logistics win wars. If Zeon had used the United Maintenance plan he was proposing even before the war from the beginning rather than adopting it in the 11th hour (And even then only partly) they would have done far better.
@@DIEGhostfish Zeon's logistics were very bad though. Their MS development was all over the place because their early victories lulled them into a false sense of security. They cut corners on their grunts and lavished their aces with one custom build after another in a blatant case of "monster of the week" syndrome, M'Quve's own Gyan being the poster child for this. Didn't help that they were getting screwed on mass production of ace-proven suits by the war profiteers at Luna 2 who didn't want them to crush the Federation too early or they'd lose out on those lucrative GM contracts. They only let Zeon catch up when they were on the back foot.
@@luminusprime Brcause they didn't listen to him. Andnthey didn't really cut corners on grunts either
0:42 Even by then Zeon had stagnated and been reduced to attritional warfare it could not sustain. Odessa was just a nail.
I really hope your channel grows this stuff is great
Thank you. That means a lot.
You did name some major battles, but there's a few other reasons.
1: An even more major one then all of these: General Revil escaping. Revil getting out of Zeon's hands, giving his speech to revitalize the Feds' morale and also coming back with the idea of producing Mobile Suits is, ultimately, what caused Zeon's effort to be doomed before it really began.
2: For Odessa, it was important to note that Zeon thought they had an ace in the hole: General Elran, a traitor to the Feds, was supposed to leak intel on the Federation's movements to help Zeon win. Unfortunately for Zeon, Amuro found Elran out, and he was promptly defused.
3: Speaking of Odessa, ya boi M'Quve was a big factor there, as part of the mining he was doing was illegal(and on Kycillia's behalf). Thus, when ol' Ramba Ral asked for some of those brand-new Doms, M'Quve feigned their destruction(and passed them to the Black Tri-Stars) and left Ramba with NOTHING. This ended up costing Zeon one of their premier aces and a chance at victory: sources say that, had Ral gotten his Doms, he'd have stomped Amuro and sank the White Base.
4: Basically everything Kycillia Zabi did. She's the reason why Char Aznable was in Zeon's military...despite knowing who he actually is(this came back to bite her in a big way). She put her faith in the abovementioned M'Quve, Zeon's reverse Midas who ruins everything he touches. And, in assassinating Gihren(even if he DID have it coming), she caused several officers loyal to him to back out of the final battle, thus costing Zeon the battle and the war.
5: Reckless spending on stupid shit like crappy Mobile Armors and other such dead-ends, and overall poor management of resources in general, leading to their supply lines being, for lack of a better term, completely fucked, to the point that even the United Maintenance Plan couldn't save them(like the Googs, it was too little too late).
Agreed but also to add onto the first point it is believed that the Zabi’s intentionally engineered Revil’s escape because if this was going to become a long and protracted war then it was all the more necessary for Zeon to invade the Earth. Zeon’s resources are only 1/30 of the Federation’s And if the war would’ve been dragged out Zeon would’ve Been under the boot of attrition so this made it paramount for them to invade the earth so that they can be able to use whatever resources they need to keep fighting this is why the Antarctic Treaty played really well for them because even though NBC’s were banned This made mobile suit combat the norm so they already had a good tactical advantage over the federation and it was like that for the majority of the war until the Gundam was deployed in September of that year.
You forgot Zeon couldn't mass produce the Big Zam.
@@kendonl.taylor5111 Counts under 5. Zeon spent a lot of money on a lot of garbage, but the Big Zam was a real winner.
M'quve was via later books explained to be a Logistical Genius. He probably did more to help Zeon win the war than he did to lose them battles. Because Logistics were Zeon's biggest weakness.
@@DIEGhostfish It explains so much about Zeon losing if M'Quve was part of that branch. EVERYthing he touched turned to shit.
Because Amuro resorted to witchcraft.
The war is just a backdrop for the plot
I think Mcquve did Zeon dirty lmao
Tactically absolutely, strategically probably. But Logistically? No, he was a logistical genius and Logistics usually win wars.
@@DIEGhostfish Sure, logistically zeon didn't have anywhere near the man or material needed for a long war. Hence when they beat them back to earth they decided dropping a whole damn space station on them was a good idea (Whilst killing their own people? Wtf moment.) And not nuking their asses, radiation would have spread and largely destroyed the habitat of earth for centuries to come. The federation threat would have been dealt with. But no, no zeon or rather the diabolically stupid zabi family decided to invade the earth feds on the ground for plot reasons. I can't watch UC, I've got a welt on my head from all the face palms where the plot just gets rail roaded to this stupid outcome that favours the federation.
I could go on and on as many other stupid plot devices, like how the federation not only didn't possess mobile suit tech but were significantly behind in it's development and they somehow managed to make the OG gundam? A pro-type weapons system that absolutely shat all over the Zaku and many of its successors? Get fukkked.
@@DIEGhostfish It still surprises me that there was something M'Quve didn't suck at...:p
Its a simple answer to why the Zeons lost, Amuro Ray
Plot.
Is Zeon alien? They use primitive projectiles like Rocket,machine gun while Earthlings are using death rays faster than Zeon. In starcraft, protoss use Beam weapons while Terrans use primitive projectiles like Missile,machine gun and rocket. But in gundam, it is opposite.
No, the people of Zeon are humans who’ve moved to an artificial colony in space. They do have beam weaponry, namely mega particle cannons on their warships and mobile armors, but because of dr minovsky’s defection, the same researcher who would help create the earth federation’s mobile suit sided beam weapons, it wasn’t until very late in the war with the gelgoog that Zeon finally miniaturized the technology and developed a beam rifle small and efficient enough for mass production.
@@niconicokms1424 At the mid stages they did manage to fit slower charging water cooled beam weapons on amphibious suits.
Why Zeon lost:
Char: “I never betrayed anyone in my life 😎”
Why Zeon lost? its simple because of the Zabi family! and all the poor choices.
Char Aznable Biography (Origin, 0079, CDA, Zeta, CCA and Unicorn) please
Two different continuities there.
Zeon lost because they didn’t have Jesus Yamato. Simple as that.
Because the plot demanded it. Zeon consistently did stupid shit whilst the earth federation made jumps and leaps in a technology they not only didn't have at the time but were behind in. Because selling figurines of Gundam mobile suits was it's focus in the 80's and still is today. There, summarised it.
You say that like it's unrealistic for an entire planet's resources and capabilities to outstrip those of a handful of habitats.
Zeon was the Japan to the Federation's Allies. Once it failed to topple the Earth Federation in the outset, there really was only one outcome to the war.
to sumerize zeon lost because char and m'cuve
They just have no plot armour.
Because Revil(who got away), Kycillia(who trusted in M'Quve and let Char in) and poor resource management.
The federation focused on unified models of mobile suits. In turn, Zeon invested in all the crazy projects he could. All Zeon projects were expensive and single, they could not be put on the production line. There is an obvious parallel with the Wehrmacht, where there were expensive tanks that had advantages in battle, but they could not be on all sectors of the front at the same time.
thanks for the gundam content 💙💛
The Tiger has a bit of a black legend. It's become a meme that it was somehow too expensive and helped Germany lose the war, but in reality, for the 1715 Tigers lost in combat, they knocked out over 10,000 enemy tanks and another 12,000 anti-tank guns and artillery pieces. They had a lot of steel in them, but not 6 tanks and 8 artillery pieces worth. Building Tigers didn't stop the Germans from also building cheaper StuGs and Pzr4s, and their most effective crews could be put in something that maximized their survivability, whereas Soviet tank crews tended to be low quality because the T-34 had such awful crew survivability.
Likewise, watching the MSG anime gives one the impression that Zeon's special projects were extremely effective and always did huge amounts of damage to the Federation before Amuro stepped in to deal with them. Dozle Zabi's Big Zam and Lalah Sune's Elmeth honestly seem like they would've decimated the whole Federation fleet between the two of them if Amuro hadn't been there to take them on.
Imagine, for example, if they hadn't invested in building the Elmeth. The most powerful newtype of the entire war would've ended up getting left on the table or, at best, stuck in a Rick Dom or Gelgoog, rather than being used to her full potential.
Good stuff need more good gundam countent on youtube
Neo Zeon Wars (UC 0088 - 0096).
Because they signed the stupid Antarctica Treaty and decided to fight the Feds in a conventional war.
If you live in a (relatively) small orbital habitat that can be taken out by a single MS with atomics, signing the Antarctic Treaty is less "stupid" and more "necessary for long-term survival."
Killing zeon zum deikun sealed their fate to fall.
Because the Principality of Zeon? Lost their Plot Armor when they messed with Char Aznable aka Casval Rem Deikun. The Zabi family were responsible for his parents death.
Hey cool stuff!
the only true reason why Zeon lost was they F with the wrong dude, Char.
@zeondidnothingwrong
Ain't gonna get more hype around the channel if you have 5 month droughts
Don't get discouraged
Because one op British wasn't enough.
Doesn't Odessa also have GM's?
It cause the didnt mass produce the big zam
I feel sad for Kycilia :((
Zeon never lost...it took them 60 years and three wars to prove that they were right all along.
Drunk spacenoid
Isn't that just what Russia's doing now tho?