Midwest express from a passenger perspective was the best. 2 across wide seats in the whole cabin, fresh hot meals on actual plates and silverware included, and the best damn chocolate chip cookies ever. Flew that airline many times, but all good things come to an end and the airline was absorbed. I remember the crash and remember seeing the smoke from the fire. Tragic and terrible day in Milwaukee.
You’re describing the cabin configuration of every commercial aircraft in America during the sixties and seventies..that all ended after privatization was introduced and profits took priority over passenger comfort. Sadly.
Lived in Milwaukee at the time of this crash, Labor Day Weekend. Was on Howell Avenue near the airport when this occurred. We were being redirected at the time, landed in the forest preserve across from Mitchell Field. All you could see was heavy smoke in the air , very sad!
I was 17 and bicycling on Howell Ave at the time. There is a small cemetery directly west of the crash site ( maybe 200 yds away) I heard all the commotion and immediately turned into the cemetery. As I rode toward the back of it on the main trail I suddenly stopped. There at the beginning of the woods ( site of crash) were four or five priests walking single file into that side of the woods. All dressed in black carrying bibles and what looked like last rites stuff. I recognized one of them . He was the pastor of my church. I don’t know what possessed me to yell out his name. Father Acker I yelled.He paused for a moment nodded and continued into the woods. That image has never left me.
As a retired commercial A&P mechanic who’s worked international line maintenance it’s hard to describe the feeling you alone are responsible for the airworthiness release of the aircraft when you sign it off. Only 1 signature goes in the flight log book and you are responsible for everything Unlike cars you can’t just pull off to the side of the road. I’ve signed off aircraft multiple times in Rome and Paris that I put my wife on who came to visit me while I provided station relief (free vacation for her). There are no second chances, there are no cutting corners, you do the job right or find another line of work. I knew guys like working in the hanger doing overhauls or the shop who wanted no part of being responsible for the release of the aircraft. The thought of this happening is always in the back of your mind.
I was an Air Force crew chief. In 1981 my Acct an F-4D did not return. It crashed in the mountains of northern Spain. I was the last person to talk and joke around with the crew prior to launch. It was my preflight. It was months before the wreckage was recovered. It was finally determined through the wreckage and testimony of wingman to be pilot error and heavy clouds that caused the accident. Those two months were horrific with a million things running through my mind as to what I my have missed or done wrong. It's a terrible feeling to this day . I still visualize our conversations and strapping them in their seats to this day. I hope this is not something you had to live with yourself . Your post is very accurate.
@@jsimps7 Thank God I was never called before the FAA on any discrepancy. I know of mechanics who 6 months later were called in after a logbook entry on something they did. Working in Europe on station relief I noticed a first aid kit was installed in the cockpit in place of the required medical kit. Medical kits had a green cross and locked in the cockpit, first aid had a Red Cross and were in the passenger compartment for the flight attendants. Seeing this as part of my inspection I replaced the kit. In the log book I entered replaced first aid kit with medical kit. 6 months later the poor fellow who mistakenly replaced the kit with the wrong one was called in. No action was taken as it was caught at the next flight but had I missed it and subsequently went on that way could have resulted in fines and had there been a incident where a medical kit was needed those fines can become suspensions of license whatever the FAA deems necessary. So as line maintenance you need to be on your toes or something so incidental can come back and bite you in the ass. I cannot even imagine releasing a flight to have it crash. That’s pretty much any mechanics nightmare and having to endure that nightmare until the investigation is over had to be gut wrenching not to mention the possibility your actions could have cost people their lives might have had me on medication. It’s an incredible responsibility and you better be sure of your skills when your name in the last one in the book and one of the first the FAA is coming after. I am glad it was nothing you did because the guilt would hang over me forever. But that had to be 2 months of sleeplessness for you.
When you sign off your signing that the Jet is airworthy. A big responsibility for you keeping the crew, passengers, and people on the ground safe. My Dad was an Aeronatical Engineer, same responsibilities to the passengers, crew, public on the ground.
My brother, a retired American mechanic, says something similar. He said he has to get it right. The pilot can't pull over to the side of the road at 30,000ft.
I was at the scene 10 minutes after it happened. Just as the plane was ready to rotate the tower saw a puff of smoke from its right engine and hit the scramble alarm button. They watched it climb then bank right then roll and go down right next to the tree line on west side of the south approach. It hit on the edge of the woods tree line and the wings and nose went into the trees. Me and one of the police officers at the scene were looking around the crash area for anyone thrown into the trees. The strangest thing we saw was there were some seats thrown from the impact area. One pair of seats had the back missing and a sheet was thrown over it by the time we arrived, but one pair of men’s legs facing one direction and the women’s legs were facing the other direction when they should of been the same direction. The cockpit control panel and nose was separated from the main cabin and tail was separated from the cabin, everything was burnt, structure gone from the floor up, passengers still in seats but burnt to death. The copilot burnt hands were still holding the flight control. Sad day I also remember at the time right after the crash they said if the right engine had failed they should of banked left but went right which made it worse
My neighbor's son was the cameraman who was the first one to film it after it happened, still on fire. Steve. He doesn't talk about it. Ever.. It really left a big emotional scar on him.
I knew the San Diego police officer who was first on scene to the “1978 PSA crash about 2 miles south of the airport, on final, when it collided with a Cessna. No survivors. He told me about that incident. The police were able to keep a good deal of info out of the press. One of those stories I wish I never heard.
Midwest Express was a luxury airline at regular prices. It is sadly missed. This crash reminds us how dangerous takeoffs and landings can be, with such little time to react and so little altitude available for troubleshooting and reacting.
I have a wide scar on my shin to this day. I remember opening up my car door that afternoon and accidently hitting my shin so hard that it cut into my lower leg, which then started bleeding. I lived on the east side of Madison near the Dane County airport, where this flight originated from. As I was sitting in my car tending to my wound the news of the crash came over the radio. Every time I look at the scar on my shin I think about that afternoon. A lady who lived across the street from a friend of mine on Madison's west side was on that flight.
Late Summer 1985 was a bad time for air travel. There was Delta Flight 191 on Aug 2, JAL Flight 123 on Aug 12, and this Midwest Express Flight 105 on Sept 6.
I joined the 440th Airlift Wing Civil Engineering Squadron, based at Mitchell IAP, 300 East College Avenue, in May 1990. I heard that our base's firefighters were the first EMS people on scene after the crash. I was stationed in Italy, in the Army at the time of the crash, so I didn't even hear about it until I returned home in Jan. 1987.
I remember when this happened and, at the time, I heard the crash was attributed to a bird strike. Interesting to hear the actual causes so many years later. What you did not mention was that several executives from Kimberly Clark Corp., owners of the airline at the time, were on the flight and was a significant loss to the company. After this their policy changed so that multiple execs could not take the same flight. I flew Midwest Express from MKE to PHL frequently in the late 80s and 90s, and I was very sad when it was sold. A very civilized flying experience.
Now that you mention the policy change, I remember that as well. I flew ME a few times a year, mostly to PHL and LAX. It really was a civilized experience. Forgot to mention in my post, that in addition to the excellent meals and CC cookie, was the complimentary champagne on the flight. You felt like a big deal even if you were just a workaday person.
You heard? You heard wrong and don't believe half of the gossip about any airline crash. A sleeve spacer in the right engine detached, which caused a severe explosion. Metal parts detaching from engines can cause catastrophic engine explosions. But bird strikes only damage turbine blades and almost always only cause total or partial power loss in an engine. Bird strikes have never caused a huge engine explosion that I know of. I should know as a pilot that has flown lots of aircraft types.
@@markr.1984 Champ, it was clear in her post that what she heard was not true, and, later, she found out the true cause. Champ, why don’t you brush up on your English skills. 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏿♂️🤦🏻♂️
I remember this well. I was southbound on Howell Ave, turning right onto College Avenue, so was at the corner, just east of this. I had just moved back from Kansas City, so was a little more noise aware of airport. I heard the jet, something sounded off (grew up with planes/fly guys) and then the impact. Wasn't sure what I heard or what happened initially. Then to learn it was the jet crashing...so sad...all souls lost. The ultimate cause of the crash could have been avoided for a multitude of reasons and plenty of blame to go around. Nothing changes this sad event...but things learned and industry changes occurred because of it....saving many lives forward. Midwest Express actually began as Kimberly-Clarks private fleet, then became Midwest Express a public passenger airline around 1984. So the crash in 1985, many thought the airline was done for, but they overcame and continued on...likely because of their service and direct flights. I flew them many times....wonderful hometown service, direct flights. They were my go-to airline above all others. Gladly paid a few more bucks for the direct flights, service and seating. And I flew them many times after 1985. Midwest fought off a takeover bid by TranAir in 2007. But Midwest had already made a downward financial mistake when they moved to the MD 80s and changed the seating configuration from the 2x2 (which was a big selling point) and went with 2x3 so then not so much different than other airlines..the beginning of the end. Midwest was acquired by Republic Airway holdings in 2009, and Midwest ceased operations in 2010 when absorbed into Frontier. There had been plans in the works to bring Midwest Express back...but between logistic issues with Elite Airways, financing etc...and then covid which tanked the industry...just hasn't happened yet. And more airlines out of Milwaukee have started direct flights to destinations....maybe to stop Midwest comeback.
My initial thoughts were to lower the nose to gain airspeed and apply left rudder to counteract the adverse yaw. Then begin to assess what's going on the then return to the airport.
I flew on them quite a bit in the late 80’s early 90’s. I worked in West Michigan and we flew them from Muskegon to Milwaukee and then on to other destinations. Loved the first class service and wine on board for everyone!
Flew a lot of hours as a passenger on Midwest Express\Airlines jets and Skyway Air Turbo props. It was a tremendous asset for the people of Wisconsin. Not doing the Air Tran merger was a mistake, Air Tran eventually merged with Southwest. Selling out to Northwest was a disaster. I remember this crash, just horrible.
Not sure if I have commented previously in this video. One of my friends was on this aircraft in Madison when it was delayed because of a problem with the right engine which was blamed on a malfunctioning right engine warning light. After arriving in Milwaukee and before the flight took of to Atlanta, it was yet again announced that a malfunctioning right engine warning light was delaying take off. My friend became concerned that the same time issue (malfunctioning right engine warning light) was yet again delaying take off so he got off the plane and rented a car and drove home to Cleveland where he was greeted by a sobbing wife who had been told her husband had died in the crash. The bottom line is that the right engine was about to disintegrate on take off and the problem should have been figured out in Madison or Milwaukee and it wasn't. The pilot, Dan Martin was blamed for the crash. It wasn't his fault. It was the engine and those who at least TWICE missed opportunities to discover and ground the plane. I have shared this information with Milwaukee media; the Martin family and the FAA but as of yet, as far as I know, no new investigation has commenced.
I understand that the engine failed, but the pilots failed to recognize the failure, even though they shouldn't have been entirely surprised. Neither pilot made the call outs for an engine failure, neither commanded max thrust. The cowlings for the right engine were intact at impact so it wasn't a catastrophic uncontained engine failure. No checklist was performed, the pilots did nothing as the aircraft swung from a heading of 194 degree's to 260 degree's in 8 seconds. You couldn't demonstrate worse pilot performance in a engine failure if you tried. I can't even blame ME's training because neither pilot followed the established procedures to handle an engine out. Personally, I think Dan Martin was promoted too early.
@@bmoulas The engine was failing in Madison. It should have never taken off from MADISON let alone MILWAUKEE. The people who are responsible for recognizing and fixing and/or grounding the plane missed or failed to take significant action. The pilots and passengers who flew from Madison were just as much at risk of crashing as the new pilots and passengers in Milwaukee. Bottom line is a PASSENGER...who is still alive and well today...my friend...was the only one who realized (surmised/figured) that there was a BIG enough PROBLEM to get off the plane. If he was smart enough to understand SOMETHING MUST be wrong with the plane as a passenger...then SOMEONE who knew something was amiss (the right engine light) in Madison and SOMEONE in Milwaukee who also recognized that the NEW right engine light was warning (allegedly) that something was amiss... should have said let's take a deeper dive into this. I mean...many of us are old enough to remember driving a car (from the 70s or 80s) with the red engine light warning that the engine is too hot or something else. If we kept driving the radiator would overheat due to a fluid leak or the transmission would burn up because of a transmission fluid leak or the engine fails because of an oil leak. Warning lights mean WARNING WILL ROBINSON! FIX ME OR ELSE. Two different warning lights were indicating a problem and in both cases the LIGHT was replaced (apparently) and not the actual PROBLEM was not diagnosed when there were two opportunities to do so. If you rent a car in Milwaukee with engine or tire troubles which are known or should be known based on maintenance records and during your car's malfunction you end up crashing into other cars because of missed or ignored dangers...you can't put the blame on the driver who assumes the mode of transportation he/she has been given is GOOD TO GO. The plane which catastrophically disintegrated on that day was not GOOD TO GO and two maintenance crews tragically in two cities failed to recognize that the 'malfunctioning' right engine lights were operating PERFECTLY. My biggest question and the most important remaining question my friend is WHY isn't there a mention in the 75 page report about the right engine warning light indicator in Madison or Milwaukee? We can piss on the graves of those pilots til the end of time but it still doesn't explain why the engine light issues at two airports within ONE HOUR don't make even a cameo appearance in the report; newspapers or television. The payout to the victims is LESS when pilot error is charged rather than plane maintenance or design flaw or...as was happening a lot in the 1980s... engines were being sent to factories to be 'refurbished' and 60 Minutes (or a similar program) determined through investigation that some engines were skimmed over or not checked at all. Midwest Flight 105s' plane/engine had gone through that process at one point. Until the last surviving passenger of Flight 105 is interviewed...the dead cry out from the grave. I hear and see them in my nightmares.
@@brotherbuckeyedoug ".you can't put the blame on the driver who assumes the mode of transportation he/she has been given is GOOD TO GO. " But if a tire blew and they didn't apply brakes, as a good driver would, and then travelled 3/4's of a mile before hitting something, would that still be the fault of the anyone but the driver? These planes are meant to be flown on one engine. And the pilots are trained to fly on one engine, and trained to fly if one fails at any point during a flight including takeoff. So the failing engine, no matter why it failed, required they follow their training. They did not and a lot of people paid the price. If teh engine had just randomly failed, and they crashed, who would you blame then?
Plain loss of lift and asymmetrical thrust caused pitch down, bank and dive. Same with the DC 10 in Chicago. Plane is capable of two engine flight. Less asymmetry with rear engine than under mounts
@@bayouflier6641 they could have got the Dc-10 in the air quite easily. Much harder to actually get it down in that condition. They were lucky that the accident happened in May and not August. Might have lost more people on the ground instead.
My heart to all those who lost their lives to fatal plane problems. My deepest gratitude that information gathered each time brings change and makes it safer. In this lives r never lost in vane.
I was there that day I had been out flying in a Cessna 152 and had landed and tied down the plane not far from 19 R at Mitchell Aero. That's where I learned to fly I have hundreds of hours out of that airport, it's a great airport to fly out of Panther Aero flying club is still there.
I believe “Crazy TV” Lenny Mattioli’s Wife “Paula” was on this Flight…Paula Mattioli had her Vehicle Serviced at our Repair Shop…We were Saddened by her Death….
Great video especially the crash sequence, but during the roll and the take off, I notice the right aileron up. This would definitely would have caused a roll to the right. Was this part of the crash or just a small little snafu. Just curious.
I get where you're coming from, as a long time airline employee just keep in mind there was likely another 20K flights that landed safely that day. The odds are crazy low compared to driving or any other form of transportation. The way people are driving more often now with their heads in their phones and speeding like mad, sometimes I wonder how I get home from a long drive. Now there's prob more like 25K-30K flights per day just in the US.
@@vanlifeonthego6684 Yes. But at least in a car you don't fall out of the sky for 30,000 feet in some cases watching the ground or a dark ocean and your death getting closer and closer by the second!
www.baaa-acro.com/sites/default/files/2020-04/N100ME.pdf Gross Incompetence of the flight crew plus gross incompetence of FAA oversight of the airline.
Fight or flight response. Some people react by taking action, others just freeze. It's a difficult thing to test for in simulator - the pilot is expecting an emergency and know it's not life threatening, so can respond calmly. But when a real emergency happens they can't.
I am a (private) pilot and always wondered about this. But it is not true that you lose your mind. I had one real emergency. The training really does kick in.
Could you do American Airlines Flight 587. (Plane crash in Queens) there’s been a bunch of dispute on how the crash events went down exactly. But the official report states that the plane pitched forward, before it went into a tailspin, some accounts say otherwise
@@brianarbenz1329 I was paying attention to the WHOLE video. Nobody directed anything towards YOU. I am a retired CPA of 30 yrs so I have a CRITICAL MIND and observe many things at once (multi-tasking). I also had a commercial pilots license and was 5 hrs from getting my CFI 40 yrs ago so aviation interests me very much. And now for the past 7 yrs have done a DEEP DIVE into our government and history of the founding of this country and now know the difference between "United States of America" and "United States." I observe EVERYTHING and still see the true meaning of ANY video.
I saw complacency. High time pilots, just another day at the office. But this day was going to be different, and unfortunately catastrophic. Personally, as a sim pilot and former student pilot IRL, I think it's healthy to have a little anxiety in the cockpit. It keeps you on the edge, just enough. You have to always be mentally prepared for something to go wrong. For me it's just a healthy way of doing a potentially dangerous job. It's sad that the event didn't have to turn out the way it did.
The old school mentality..expect and prepare mentally for every take-off to have an engine failure and every landing to be a go-around. Then the ‘surprise’ factor doesn’t lose any of the literal split seconds it takes to go from saveable to unrecoverable.
We walked into the woods couple months later after the crash, phone couple pieces of the plane yet real little pieces of metal and it still smelled like jet fuel with a big hole in the ground just south of the airport
Frustrating . I am retired now after 47 years flying USAF, plus Part 121, 135, 125, and Part 91 corporate operations. I lost some friends and vowed to never get complacent in the cockpit. As the training got better, we learned from the mistakes of others . I learned to not assume that the pilot sitting next to me was focused on the job at hand. If I was the PF, I briefed the takeoff and what was expected if we had an emergency before and after V1. If I was the PNF, I expected the PF to brief me on the same. Sure, it became mundane but it assured both us that we were on the same page.
Flew Mid - West Express many times and always spoke to the pilots - They were not very young Men , they were seasoned professionals ! Orlando to Milwaukee at least one of the pilots walked The entire fuselage and checked out the windows - We joked with them about that and they were Very nice , always said they liked to check their aircraft in cruise flight - How cool is that ! Comfortable and fast - Great cookies and great looking female flight attendants ! Score -
I truly believe that NO ONE who lives in the southern area of Milwaukee will EVER FORGET that terrible day!! I'm so very sorry for lives lost on that plane. Was a very HOT and HUMID day...that day and the day after...sunshine.....the makings of a beautiful day and then this TRAGEDY.
I lived in Oak Creek at the time, you could see the smoke from the accident there. They didn't get far south of College Avenue before the crash. I'll never forget that day.
I grew up on 6th and Layton and remember this well. I was 9 and was playing outside with my neighbor when the accident happened. I can still remember all the emergency personnel racing past our house heading to the scene.
@@danjacobsen7645 not at the scene, the crash site borders the airport and the Cudahy Nature Preserve, but there may be one in the airport itself. Been a few years since I’ve flown. The interesting thing about this accident was that there was a dead deer among the carnage; apparently it was grazing when the accident happened and it was killed in the aftermath.
@@danjacobsen7645not that I’ve seen. Me and my sister walked through the preserve hoping to find the area. Need to go back after the leaves fall. Too hard to determine where you’re at amongst the trees. You can still see where the crash happened from the street because the tree line is different. Unfortunately, couldn’t reach it from outside of the forest due to it being airport land and no trespassing. If I ever find a memorial, I’ll post it here.
I too remember this, my brother & I were leaving to go bow hunting and drove right pass the crash site on college avenue! Sad day! We were told that the exe wife of the owner of American tv & appliances ( crazy tv lenny?) was on that flight! Not sure if that was proven to be true!
If it’s true that ME had a subpar training program as the video suggests, then you cannot expect any pilot to do that which they haven’t been properly trained for.
Very little is acknowledged that the right engine threw a turbine wheel on take off roll that was later found on the left side of the runway. When the wheel departed the engine it went through the rear fuselage or tail , taking out some vital control cables . It may have also impacted the left engine. This is why the plane dived at the ground inverted in 20 seconds. Pilots ( even single engine ) were given a chance to fly this type of jet in a simulator, given an engine failure and not one was able to duplicate the crash scenario.
The original report was not the final findings. Additional investigation overturned the original possible cause but took many months later as aviation experts reexamined data. It was not easy to convince the NTSB that their report had made assumptions that did not account for other expert analysis.
Our marketing group lost a young employee on that flight. He was returning from Milwaukee to our Asheville office by way of Atlanta. He was just starting his career and was travelling to the different field offices for training. Very sad time for everyone having just met him.
38-year-old Mohammed Ali al-Khowyter 7,674 flying hour, He had flown numerous aircraft such as Douglas DC-3, DC-4, McDonnell Douglas DC-9, Boeing 707, and 737. old and experienced enough right ?
Still live near the crash site my dad was 3 and he went to school near by as it was next to the ER where my grandma (his mom) worked the field was 2 blocks away my grandma walked out of the building to grab her id from her car. She looked up and saw the aircraft and knew something was wrong she saw as it went down and called on her radio “I’m going to need all the fucking back up we got” before running to the site her co worker went next store and got my dad and her son who was friends with him when they got to his house they played outside my dad couldn’t stop looking into the sky seeing the flames 9 hours latter my grandma came back and broke down and said “there was no hope it’s all fucked up” she pulled a piece of metal rapped around a dear’s antler out of her back pocket every year on my birthday 9-6-2008 she brings it out. She flew 2 times after both with me on US airways.
I covered this crash when I worked in television. The destruction of the plane was so complete. very little could be recognized as parts of an aircraft. Similarly, the bodies of passengers and crew were burned beyond recognition.
It's sad that the captain asked the co-pilot for instrument readings and got no response, no information that might have helped. Maybe the co-pilot was terror-stricken or in shock.
i dont know what the silent cockpit thing is..my backseat driving tells me the pilot should have flown the plane straight and got control before attempting any return maneuvers.. its so sad when this happens but when we get out of bed in the morning there are no guarantees we will return.
Back in the days of jump in your seat and go fly. Quite likely no discussion about failures at takeoff, CRM and being prepared for the worst with a plan to recover. This is one I do not remember then again it was back before the internet and had a choice of 3 channels! 2 which were unwatchable🙄👴🏻
Don't forget that the investigation found that the FAA POI that approved the silent cockpit approach was incompetent and was approving something that was in violation of FAA rules. She was having others do her work because of her incompetence. I hope with modern simulators that pilots are getting training on engine failures and somatogravic illusion at all stages of flight. The fact that a former fighter jet pilot didn't communicate at all is very strange.
So sad. Looks like poor mechanics. My condolences to all who lost a loved one. My guess is that the airline went out of biz. I saw the smoke from the P.S.A. # 182 crash in San Diego, CA in Sept. of 1978. That airline and other parties all made critical errors. The airline went out of biz. USAir took its place. Again -- it shows just how vulnerable all travelers are. Mistakes cost lives -- period! * Peace & Love, Cav . *
History does repeat itself. Inadequate training. I personally never care to fly on these DC-9's. I'm glad that was the only MD aircraft in the fleet. The rest were Boeing and Lockheed.
You're right about it being not much time, but one pilot wasn't responding at all to the emergency and the other chose the wrong inputs. Ultimately they both responded in ways that made it worse, so they still share responsibility with the mechanical failure, because with the correct response they could have survived.
Midwest Express just started when they got this accident, and was reasonable successful in the 25 years afterwards, popular and no other accidents. Nowadays with social media a new small airline which crashes an old 2nd hand jet due to mechanical failure and insufficently trained pilots would be boycotted and grounded immediately.
Can you do a simulation of the russian plane that had a suspected intoxicated pilot flying they crew got disoriented, started fighting in the cabin and it went on about 20 minutes. It finally crashed in Perm, Russia.
Omg! You had so much incorrect on this. 1st the background traffic noise is not from MKE. It’s from some other airport. And you had it take off the wrong runway. It took off to the west and crashed in a salvage yard not south.
Midwest express from a passenger perspective was the best. 2 across wide seats in the whole cabin, fresh hot meals on actual plates and silverware included, and the best damn chocolate chip cookies ever. Flew that airline many times, but all good things come to an end and the airline was absorbed. I remember the crash and remember seeing the smoke from the fire. Tragic and terrible day in Milwaukee.
Can confirm. I flew many, many miles on MidEx.
Midwest was the best. Flew MKE --> PHX all the time. Staff and service were A+.
Agree 100%.
die in my room en I have , 0:31 0:31 0:31 0:31
You’re describing the cabin configuration of every commercial aircraft in America during the sixties and seventies..that all ended after privatization was introduced and profits took priority over passenger comfort.
Sadly.
Lived in Milwaukee at the time of this crash, Labor Day Weekend. Was on Howell Avenue near the airport when this occurred. We were being redirected at the time, landed in the forest preserve across from Mitchell Field. All you could see was heavy smoke in the air , very sad!
I was 17 and bicycling on Howell Ave at the time. There is a small cemetery directly west of the crash site ( maybe 200 yds away) I heard all the commotion and immediately turned into the cemetery. As I rode toward the back of it on the main trail I suddenly stopped. There at the beginning of the woods ( site of crash) were four or five priests
walking single file into that side of the woods. All dressed in black carrying bibles and what looked like last rites stuff.
I recognized one of them . He was the pastor of my church.
I don’t know what possessed me to yell out his name. Father Acker I yelled.He paused for a moment nodded and continued into the woods. That image has never left me.
As a retired commercial A&P mechanic who’s worked international line maintenance it’s hard to describe the feeling you alone are responsible for the airworthiness release of the aircraft when you sign it off. Only 1 signature goes in the flight log book and you are responsible for everything Unlike cars you can’t just pull off to the side of the road. I’ve signed off aircraft multiple times in Rome and Paris that I put my wife on who came to visit me while I provided station relief (free vacation for her). There are no second chances, there are no cutting corners, you do the job right or find another line of work. I knew guys like working in the hanger doing overhauls or the shop who wanted no part of being responsible for the release of the aircraft. The thought of this happening is always in the back of your mind.
I was an Air Force crew chief. In 1981 my Acct an F-4D did not return. It crashed in the mountains of northern Spain. I was the last person to talk and joke around with the crew prior to launch. It was my preflight. It was months before the wreckage was recovered. It was finally determined through the wreckage and testimony of wingman to be pilot error and heavy clouds that caused the accident. Those two months were horrific with a million things running through my mind as to what I my have missed or done wrong. It's a terrible feeling to this day . I still visualize our conversations and strapping them in their seats to this day. I hope this is not something you had to live with yourself . Your post is very accurate.
@@jsimps7 Thank God I was never called before the FAA on any discrepancy. I know of mechanics who 6 months later were called in after a logbook entry on something they did. Working in Europe on station relief I noticed a first aid kit was installed in the cockpit in place of the required medical kit. Medical kits had a green cross and locked in the cockpit, first aid had a Red Cross and were in the passenger compartment for the flight attendants. Seeing this as part of my inspection I replaced the kit. In the log book I entered replaced first aid kit with medical kit. 6 months later the poor fellow who mistakenly replaced the kit with the wrong one was called in. No action was taken as it was caught at the next flight but had I missed it and subsequently went on that way could have resulted in fines and had there been a incident where a medical kit was needed those fines can become suspensions of license whatever the FAA deems necessary. So as line maintenance you need to be on your toes or something so incidental can come back and bite you in the ass. I cannot even imagine releasing a flight to have it crash. That’s pretty much any mechanics nightmare and having to endure that nightmare until the investigation is over had to be gut wrenching not to mention the possibility your actions could have cost people their lives might have had me on medication. It’s an incredible responsibility and you better be sure of your skills when your name in the last one in the book and one of the first the FAA is coming after. I am glad it was nothing you did because the guilt would hang over me forever.
But that had to be 2 months of sleeplessness for you.
@@jsimps7 🙏😢.
When you sign off your signing that the Jet is airworthy. A big responsibility for you keeping the crew, passengers, and people on the ground safe. My Dad was an Aeronatical Engineer, same responsibilities to the passengers, crew, public on the ground.
My brother, a retired American mechanic, says something similar. He said he has to get it right. The pilot can't pull over to the side of the road at 30,000ft.
I was at the scene 10 minutes after it happened. Just as the plane was ready to rotate the tower saw a puff of smoke from its right engine and hit the scramble alarm button. They watched it climb then bank right then roll and go down right next to the tree line on west side of the south approach. It hit on the edge of the woods tree line and the wings and nose went into the trees. Me and one of the police officers at the scene were looking around the crash area for anyone thrown into the trees. The strangest thing we saw was there were some seats thrown from the impact area. One pair of seats had the back missing and a sheet was thrown over it by the time we arrived, but one pair of men’s legs facing one direction and the women’s legs were facing the other direction when they should of been the same direction.
The cockpit control panel and nose was separated from the main cabin and tail was separated from the cabin, everything was burnt, structure gone from the floor up, passengers still in seats but burnt to death. The copilot burnt hands were still holding the flight control. Sad day
I also remember at the time right after the crash they said if the right engine had failed they should of banked left but went right which made it worse
Thanks for sharing what you witnessed!
They burned of course, but you do not survive an impact like that. horrible way to go in any case.
My neighbor's son was the cameraman who was the first one to film it after it happened, still on fire. Steve. He doesn't talk about it. Ever.. It really left a big emotional scar on him.
I knew the San Diego police officer who was first on scene to the “1978 PSA crash about 2 miles south of the airport, on final, when it collided with a Cessna. No survivors. He told me about that incident. The police were able to keep a good deal of info out of the press. One of those stories I wish I never heard.
Never never if possible turn in the direction of the dead engine.
One of the flight stewardesses used to come to our house and hang out with my sister & her sister. I went to school with her, very sad story.
I was only 18 when this happened. The video really explains alot. Flew Midwest Express at least a dozen times after the crash, never with a worry.
I live under the approach to 19R. The scenery in whichever sim was used to create this is astonishingly accurate!
It is Satelite imagery. Don't be "astonished."
Loved flying Midwest Express. Best Care In The Air.
And Those Warm Chocolate Cookies.
@@kenb8859 and the wine
Midwest Express was a luxury airline at regular prices. It is sadly missed. This crash reminds us how dangerous takeoffs and landings can be, with such little time to react and so little altitude available for troubleshooting and reacting.
I have a wide scar on my shin to this day. I remember opening up my car door that afternoon and accidently hitting my shin so hard that it cut into my lower leg, which then started bleeding. I lived on the east side of Madison near the Dane County airport, where this flight originated from. As I was sitting in my car tending to my wound the news of the crash came over the radio. Every time I look at the scar on my shin I think about that afternoon. A lady who lived across the street from a friend of mine on Madison's west side was on that flight.
Late Summer 1985 was a bad time for air travel. There was Delta Flight 191 on Aug 2, JAL Flight 123 on Aug 12, and this Midwest Express Flight 105 on Sept 6.
Manchester Air Disaster too, Aug 22 1985.
I joined the 440th Airlift Wing Civil Engineering Squadron, based at Mitchell IAP, 300 East College Avenue, in May 1990. I heard that our base's firefighters were the first EMS people on scene after the crash. I was stationed in Italy, in the Army at the time of the crash, so I didn't even hear about it until I returned home in Jan. 1987.
I was driving down college avenue, saw the whole thing. Shook me to the core. Ended up working at the airport 5 years later. What a day.
Did u see the fire ball, or too far away ?
Unfortunately YES.. One of the EMT's was a friend of mine, he was sick for days.@@PInk77W1
I LIVE IN MILWAUKEE
Wow, what was it like? I live in mke
@@chadrat39 terrible.
I remember when this happened and, at the time, I heard the crash was attributed to a bird strike. Interesting to hear the actual causes so many years later. What you did not mention was that several executives from Kimberly Clark Corp., owners of the airline at the time, were on the flight and was a significant loss to the company. After this their policy changed so that multiple execs could not take the same flight. I flew Midwest Express from MKE to PHL frequently in the late 80s and 90s, and I was very sad when it was sold. A very civilized flying experience.
Now that you mention the policy change, I remember that as well. I flew ME a few times a year, mostly to PHL and LAX. It really was a civilized experience. Forgot to mention in my post, that in addition to the excellent meals and CC cookie, was the complimentary champagne on the flight. You felt like a big deal even if you were just a workaday person.
You heard? You heard wrong and don't believe half of the gossip about any airline crash. A sleeve spacer in the right engine detached, which caused a severe explosion. Metal parts detaching from engines can cause catastrophic engine explosions. But bird strikes only damage turbine blades and almost always only cause total or partial power loss in an engine. Bird strikes have never caused a huge engine explosion that I know of. I should know as a pilot that has flown lots of aircraft types.
@@markr.1984 Champ, it was clear in her post that what she heard was not true, and, later, she found out the true cause.
Champ, why don’t you brush up on your English skills.
🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏿♂️🤦🏻♂️
I remember this well. I was southbound on Howell Ave, turning right onto College Avenue, so was at the corner, just east of this. I had just moved back from Kansas City, so was a little more noise aware of airport. I heard the jet, something sounded off (grew up with planes/fly guys) and then the impact. Wasn't sure what I heard or what happened initially. Then to learn it was the jet crashing...so sad...all souls lost.
The ultimate cause of the crash could have been avoided for a multitude of reasons and plenty of blame to go around. Nothing changes this sad event...but things learned and industry changes occurred because of it....saving many lives forward.
Midwest Express actually began as Kimberly-Clarks private fleet, then became Midwest Express a public passenger airline around 1984. So the crash in 1985, many thought the airline was done for, but they overcame and continued on...likely because of their service and direct flights. I flew them many times....wonderful hometown service, direct flights. They were my go-to airline above all others. Gladly paid a few more bucks for the direct flights, service and seating. And I flew them many times after 1985.
Midwest fought off a takeover bid by TranAir in 2007. But Midwest had already made a downward financial mistake when they moved to the MD 80s and changed the seating configuration from the 2x2 (which was a big selling point) and went with 2x3 so then not so much different than other airlines..the beginning of the end. Midwest was acquired by Republic Airway holdings in 2009, and Midwest ceased operations in 2010 when absorbed into Frontier.
There had been plans in the works to bring Midwest Express back...but between logistic issues with Elite Airways, financing etc...and then covid which tanked the industry...just hasn't happened yet. And more airlines out of Milwaukee have started direct flights to destinations....maybe to stop Midwest comeback.
Now that i've been watching a ton of avation crash videos, I don't want to fly on planes anymore.
Same
Still the safest way to travel.
@georgeforall thats what they say, but if I never fly, I probably won't die in a plane crash.
Flying is safer than driving, champs. That’s a *fact.*
But, if appearing to be a weasel makes you feel better, by all means, do it.
Don’t make fun of people having the fear of flying - cause if you do -that makes you the weasel 😂
My initial thoughts were to lower the nose to gain airspeed and apply left rudder to counteract the adverse yaw. Then begin to assess what's going on the then return to the airport.
This guy 😂
Some seem to prefer panic and suicide maneuver instead (kidding). Sometimes the situation is overwhelming and time insufficient .
Yes. They say first fly the plane
So little time, make the wrong decision and there's no time to correct it.
@@kelleychilton2524 Response needs to be instinctual, like swatting at a fly that's coming towards your face.
I flew on them quite a bit in the late 80’s early 90’s. I worked in West Michigan and we flew them from Muskegon to Milwaukee and then on to other destinations. Loved the first class service and wine on board for everyone!
would rather have competent pilots than wine........try and pay attention clown
Flew a lot of hours as a passenger on Midwest Express\Airlines jets and Skyway Air Turbo props. It was a tremendous asset for the people of Wisconsin. Not doing the Air Tran merger was a mistake, Air Tran eventually merged with Southwest. Selling out to Northwest was a disaster. I remember this crash, just horrible.
Not sure if I have commented previously in this video. One of my friends was on this aircraft in Madison when it was delayed because of a problem with the right engine which was blamed on a malfunctioning right engine warning light. After arriving in Milwaukee and before the flight took of to Atlanta, it was yet again announced that a malfunctioning right engine warning light was delaying take off. My friend became concerned that the same time issue (malfunctioning right engine warning light) was yet again delaying take off so he got off the plane and rented a car and drove home to Cleveland where he was greeted by a sobbing wife who had been told her husband had died in the crash. The bottom line is that the right engine was about to disintegrate on take off and the problem should have been figured out in Madison or Milwaukee and it wasn't. The pilot, Dan Martin was blamed for the crash. It wasn't his fault. It was the engine and those who at least TWICE missed opportunities to discover and ground the plane. I have shared this information with Milwaukee media; the Martin family and the FAA but as of yet, as far as I know, no new investigation has commenced.
I understand that the engine failed, but the pilots failed to recognize the failure, even though they shouldn't have been entirely surprised. Neither pilot made the call outs for an engine failure, neither commanded max thrust. The cowlings for the right engine were intact at impact so it wasn't a catastrophic uncontained engine failure. No checklist was performed, the pilots did nothing as the aircraft swung from a heading of 194 degree's to 260 degree's in 8 seconds. You couldn't demonstrate worse pilot performance in a engine failure if you tried. I can't even blame ME's training because neither pilot followed the established procedures to handle an engine out. Personally, I think Dan Martin was promoted too early.
@@bmoulas The engine was failing in Madison. It should have never taken off from MADISON let alone MILWAUKEE. The people who are responsible for recognizing and fixing and/or grounding the plane missed or failed to take significant action. The pilots and passengers who flew from Madison were just as much at risk of crashing as the new pilots and passengers in Milwaukee.
Bottom line is a PASSENGER...who is still alive and well today...my friend...was the only one who realized (surmised/figured) that there was a BIG enough PROBLEM to get off the plane. If he was smart enough to understand SOMETHING MUST be wrong with the plane as a passenger...then SOMEONE who knew something was amiss (the right engine light) in Madison and SOMEONE in Milwaukee who also recognized that the NEW right engine light was warning (allegedly) that something was amiss... should have said let's take a deeper dive into this. I mean...many of us are old enough to remember driving a car (from the 70s or 80s) with the red engine light warning that the engine is too hot or something else. If we kept driving the radiator would overheat due to a fluid leak or the transmission would burn up because of a transmission fluid leak or the engine fails because of an oil leak.
Warning lights mean WARNING WILL ROBINSON! FIX ME OR ELSE. Two different warning lights were indicating a problem and in both cases the LIGHT was replaced (apparently) and not the actual PROBLEM was not diagnosed when there were two opportunities to do so.
If you rent a car in Milwaukee with engine or tire troubles which are known or should be known based on maintenance records and during your car's malfunction you end up crashing into other cars because of missed or ignored dangers...you can't put the blame on the driver who assumes the mode of transportation he/she has been given is GOOD TO GO. The plane which catastrophically disintegrated on that day was not GOOD TO GO and two maintenance crews tragically in two cities failed to recognize that the 'malfunctioning' right engine lights were operating PERFECTLY.
My biggest question and the most important remaining question my friend is WHY isn't there a mention in the 75 page report about the right engine warning light indicator in Madison or Milwaukee?
We can piss on the graves of those pilots til the end of time but it still doesn't explain why the engine light issues at two airports within ONE HOUR don't make even a cameo appearance in the report; newspapers or television.
The payout to the victims is LESS when pilot error is charged rather than plane maintenance or design flaw or...as was happening a lot in the 1980s... engines were being sent to factories to be 'refurbished' and 60 Minutes (or a similar program) determined through investigation that some engines were skimmed over or not checked at all. Midwest Flight 105s' plane/engine had gone through that process at one point.
Until the last surviving passenger of Flight 105 is interviewed...the dead cry out from the grave. I hear and see them in my nightmares.
@@brotherbuckeyedoug ".you can't put the blame on the driver who assumes the mode of transportation he/she has been given is GOOD TO GO. "
But if a tire blew and they didn't apply brakes, as a good driver would, and then travelled 3/4's of a mile before hitting something, would that still be the fault of the anyone but the driver?
These planes are meant to be flown on one engine. And the pilots are trained to fly on one engine, and trained to fly if one fails at any point during a flight including takeoff.
So the failing engine, no matter why it failed, required they follow their training. They did not and a lot of people paid the price.
If teh engine had just randomly failed, and they crashed, who would you blame then?
Holy Cripes.
I worked in the flight kitchen at MKE. The cookies are Pillsbury chocolate chip from the same tubes you can buy in any grocery store.
Oh dear.
I flew out of Milwaukee the next day and we went over the spot...just a big black spot.
Midwest Express was Kimberly Clark’s corporate fleet operated as an airline.
Plain loss of lift and asymmetrical thrust caused pitch down, bank and dive. Same with the DC 10 in Chicago. Plane is capable of two engine flight. Less asymmetry with rear engine than under mounts
@@bayouflier6641 they could have got the Dc-10 in the air quite easily. Much harder to actually get it down in that condition. They were lucky that the accident happened in May and not August. Might have lost more people on the ground instead.
My heart to all those who lost their lives to fatal plane problems. My deepest gratitude that information gathered each time brings change and makes it safer. In this lives r never lost in vane.
I been living in milwaukee for over 20 years and I didn't know about this tragic event.
Very sad, great graphics, the smoke belching out the back of the aircraft reminded me of a 1974 Vega we owned.
I live right across the street from this crash
Everyone died when no one should have.
I was there that day I had been out flying in a Cessna 152 and had landed and tied down the plane not far from 19 R at Mitchell Aero. That's where I learned to fly I have hundreds of hours out of that airport, it's a great airport to fly out of Panther Aero flying club is still there.
I believe “Crazy TV” Lenny Mattioli’s Wife “Paula” was on this Flight…Paula Mattioli had her Vehicle Serviced at our Repair Shop…We were Saddened by her Death….
You are correct! I lived in MKE at that time.
So tragic. It was a great airline. I worked for them for two years in Philadelphia.
Great video especially the crash sequence, but during the roll and the take off, I notice the right aileron up. This would definitely would have caused a roll to the right. Was this part of the crash or just a small little snafu. Just curious.
I have got to stop watching these posts or I may never fly anywhere ever again.
Same here.. i have panic attacks every time I fly already, and yet I keep watching these crash videos.
I get where you're coming from, as a long time airline employee just keep in mind there was likely another 20K flights that landed safely that day. The odds are crazy low compared to driving or any other form of transportation. The way people are driving more often now with their heads in their phones and speeding like mad, sometimes I wonder how I get home from a long drive. Now there's prob more like 25K-30K flights per day just in the US.
@@vanlifeonthego6684 Yes. But at least in a car you don't fall out of the sky for 30,000 feet in some cases watching the ground or a dark ocean and your death getting closer and closer by the second!
This was the 80’s, thats practically the Wild West compared to what we have now
That impact scene was brutal, great video as always!❤
Thanks!
www.baaa-acro.com/sites/default/files/2020-04/N100ME.pdf Gross Incompetence of the flight crew plus gross incompetence of FAA oversight of the airline.
So sad!!
Thanks Mauricio PC
Fight or flight response.
Some people react by taking action, others just freeze.
It's a difficult thing to test for in simulator - the pilot is expecting an emergency and know it's not life threatening, so can respond calmly. But when a real emergency happens they can't.
I am a (private) pilot and always wondered about this. But it is not true that you lose your mind. I had one real emergency. The training really does kick in.
The DC-9, along with its later Mad Dog MD-80 variants, were among the best Douglas ever built. It’s the DC-10 that was the nail in their coffin
Could you do American Airlines Flight 587. (Plane crash in Queens) there’s been a bunch of dispute on how the crash events went down exactly. But the official report states that the plane pitched forward, before it went into a tailspin, some accounts say otherwise
the captains hands were still clutched to the control wheel.
I love how you state "United States of America" instead of just United States. Keep up the good work.
Gee, I hadn't noticed that. Perhaps because I was too busy paying attention to the true meaning of this video.
@@brianarbenz1329 you were paying attention to the comments because you wanted to be offended.
@@echohotel4963 ?
My whole point -- which I clearly said -- was that I was _not_ paying attention to comments.
@@brianarbenz1329 I was paying attention to the WHOLE video. Nobody directed anything towards YOU. I am a retired CPA of 30 yrs so I have a CRITICAL MIND and observe many things at once (multi-tasking). I also had a commercial pilots license and was 5 hrs from getting my CFI 40 yrs ago so aviation interests me very much. And now for the past 7 yrs have done a DEEP DIVE into our government and history of the founding of this country and now know the difference between "United States of America" and "United States."
I observe EVERYTHING and still see the true meaning of ANY video.
I saw complacency. High time pilots, just another day at the office. But this day was going to be different, and unfortunately catastrophic. Personally, as a sim pilot and former student pilot IRL, I think it's healthy to have a little anxiety in the cockpit. It keeps you on the edge, just enough. You have to always be mentally prepared for something to go wrong. For me it's just a healthy way of doing a potentially dangerous job. It's sad that the event didn't have to turn out the way it did.
The old school mentality..expect and prepare mentally for every take-off to have an engine failure and every landing to be a go-around. Then the ‘surprise’ factor doesn’t lose any of the literal split seconds it takes to go from saveable to unrecoverable.
There's something a bit special, about the way you shoot these videos', well done!
I ❤ flying for Midwest Airlines.
To one of my dearest friends in the whole world....... your friend Chris
I was flying home from my last day of army training when this happened
We walked into the woods couple months later after the crash, phone couple pieces of the plane yet real little pieces of metal and it still smelled like jet fuel with a big hole in the ground just south of the airport
Frustrating . I am retired now after 47 years flying USAF, plus Part 121, 135, 125, and Part 91 corporate operations. I lost some friends and vowed to never get complacent in the cockpit. As the training got better, we learned from the mistakes of others . I learned to not assume that the pilot sitting next to me was focused on the job at hand. If I was the PF, I briefed the takeoff and what was expected if we had an emergency before and after V1. If I was the PNF, I expected the PF to brief me on the same. Sure, it became mundane but it assured both us that we were on the same page.
Are you saying you would do the required briefings?
Flew Mid - West Express many times and always spoke to the pilots - They were not very young
Men , they were seasoned professionals ! Orlando to Milwaukee at least one of the pilots walked
The entire fuselage and checked out the windows - We joked with them about that and they were
Very nice , always said they liked to check their aircraft in cruise flight - How cool is that !
Comfortable and fast - Great cookies and great looking female flight attendants ! Score -
Ahhhh, the 70's and 80's. I remember it well. It's why flying is so much safer today.
Nicely done! I thought I’d seen all the contributors to everything aviation but this is a new first to me!
Hittn that sub button!👍🇨🇦
Thanks Jim!
Is there anyway to get information about the flight crew before I buy a ticket???
"You pays yo money, you takes yo chances"
Isn’t that the truth! My Dad always told me that. He was a very wise man. Thank you. And Happy New Year 🎉
@@dawndare3949 Indeed! Happy New Year to you as well!! 🎉🥳
That’s why I don’t fly. I want to know who I’m entrusting my life to.
ur fine as long as not getting the crew like flight 163
I truly believe that NO ONE who lives in the southern area of Milwaukee will EVER FORGET that terrible day!! I'm so very sorry for lives lost on that plane. Was a very HOT and HUMID day...that day and the day after...sunshine.....the makings of a beautiful day and then this TRAGEDY.
I lived in Oak Creek at the time, you could see the smoke from the accident there. They didn't get far south of College Avenue before the crash. I'll never forget that day.
I grew up on 6th and Layton and remember this well. I was 9 and was playing outside with my neighbor when the accident happened. I can still remember all the emergency personnel racing past our house heading to the scene.
Is there any kind of memorial at the scene?
@@danjacobsen7645 not at the scene, the crash site borders the airport and the Cudahy Nature Preserve, but there may be one in the airport itself. Been a few years since I’ve flown. The interesting thing about this accident was that there was a dead deer among the carnage; apparently it was grazing when the accident happened and it was killed in the aftermath.
@@danjacobsen7645not that I’ve seen. Me and my sister walked through the preserve hoping to find the area. Need to go back after the leaves fall. Too hard to determine where you’re at amongst the trees. You can still see where the crash happened from the street because the tree line is different. Unfortunately, couldn’t reach it from outside of the forest due to it being airport land and no trespassing. If I ever find a memorial, I’ll post it here.
I just subscribed!👌
Welcome!
This happened in 1985!
One of the flight attendants on that flight was a high school classmate of my former wife.
McConnell Must Have Been Out Of Town When Douglas Made That Engine
Only 27 passengers ?
That plane is practically empty ?
Regardless…there was loss of life
I too remember this, my brother & I were leaving to go bow hunting and drove right pass the crash site on college avenue! Sad day! We were told that the exe wife of the owner of American tv & appliances ( crazy tv lenny?) was on that flight! Not sure if that was proven to be true!
I was going down Howell that day.
If it’s true that ME had a subpar training program as the video suggests, then you cannot expect any pilot to do that which they haven’t been properly trained for.
Very little is acknowledged that the right engine threw a turbine wheel on take off roll that was later found on the left side of the runway. When the wheel departed the engine it went through the rear fuselage or tail , taking out some vital control cables . It may have also impacted the left engine. This is why the plane dived at the ground inverted in 20 seconds. Pilots ( even single engine ) were given a chance to fly this type of jet in a simulator, given an engine failure and not one was able to duplicate the crash scenario.
Read the NTSB report and get back to us on all of that.......
Yeah that's not true. Please read the report instead of making stuff up online.
The original report was not the final findings. Additional investigation overturned the original possible cause but took many months later as aviation experts reexamined data. It was not easy to convince the NTSB that their report had made assumptions that did not account for other expert analysis.
Our marketing group lost a young employee on that flight. He was returning from Milwaukee to our Asheville office by way of Atlanta. He was just starting his career and was travelling to the different field offices for training. Very sad time for everyone having just met him.
What Flight Simulator is this.???
GIVE ME AN OLD EXPERIENCED PILOT PLEASE
38-year-old Mohammed Ali al-Khowyter 7,674 flying hour, He had flown numerous aircraft such as Douglas DC-3, DC-4, McDonnell Douglas DC-9, Boeing 707, and 737. old and experienced enough right ?
No more trump!!!
Hun what does Trump have to do with a plane crashing? Trump 2024!! @@gregtennessee8249
Not no more your going woke now
@@hksp I believe his case was pilot suicide.
I watched a cargo plane takeoff awhile back with an engine smoking. I don't think the safety standards are too high
I live down the street. I never knew this happen3d. Where did it crash? I stay on Ryan rd
In the Cudahy Nature Preserve on College. You can see the tree line is different if you are driving west up College from Pennsylvania Ave.
I’ve taken off and landed on that runway at Billy Mitchell Field.
Still live near the crash site my dad was 3 and he went to school near by as it was next to the ER where my grandma (his mom) worked the field was 2 blocks away my grandma walked out of the building to grab her id from her car. She looked up and saw the aircraft and knew something was wrong she saw as it went down and called on her radio “I’m going to need all the fucking back up we got” before running to the site her co worker went next store and got my dad and her son who was friends with him when they got to his house they played outside my dad couldn’t stop looking into the sky seeing the flames 9 hours latter my grandma came back and broke down and said “there was no hope it’s all fucked up” she pulled a piece of metal rapped around a dear’s antler out of her back pocket every year on my birthday 9-6-2008 she brings it out. She flew 2 times after both with me on US airways.
Inadequate training for sure! Every airline does V1 cuts in the sim so recognizing and controlling an eng out should not be a big deal.
The video at 4:22 shows smoke coming out of the left engine ??? But it was the right engine that failed
I covered this crash when I worked in television. The destruction of the plane was so complete. very little could be recognized as parts of an aircraft. Similarly, the bodies of passengers and crew were burned beyond recognition.
Thanks, Jimmy Breslin
Surely training makes you chk engine thrust after loss of power on TO... Why did they turn into the dead engine, and can the 9 fly on one engine?
It's sad that the captain asked the co-pilot for instrument readings and got no response, no information that might have helped. Maybe the co-pilot was terror-stricken or in shock.
i dont know what the silent cockpit thing is..my backseat driving tells me the pilot should have flown the plane straight and got control before attempting any return maneuvers.. its so sad when this happens but when we get out of bed in the morning there are no guarantees we will return.
Back in the days of jump in your seat and go fly. Quite likely no discussion about failures at takeoff, CRM and being prepared for the worst with a plan to recover. This is one I do not remember then again it was back before the internet and had a choice of 3 channels! 2 which were unwatchable🙄👴🏻
48K + flights ?! Wow.
Don't forget that the investigation found that the FAA POI that approved the silent cockpit approach was incompetent and was approving something that was in violation of FAA rules. She was having others do her work because of her incompetence.
I hope with modern simulators that pilots are getting training on engine failures and somatogravic illusion at all stages of flight.
The fact that a former fighter jet pilot didn't communicate at all is very strange.
Are fighter jet pilots especially experienced at communicating with their nonexistent co-pilots?
What program did you use for your Air crash videos? X-Plane 12?
Love you, Amy. 💔
Sorry, but Midwest Express never landed in Madison
It did that day, and then flew to Milwaukee fir the next leg if the trip.
Were the tickets refunded?
Regardless of experience, you never know how a pilot will react to a real emergency.
A good friend of mine died on this plane
In EMS I have notime to watch. What happened?
Didn’t even know about this crash that occurred in my state
Flew it many times before it disappeared 😊
They were the best and their puddle jumper Skyways!
So sad. Looks like poor mechanics. My condolences to all who lost a loved one. My guess is that the airline went out of biz. I saw the smoke from the P.S.A. # 182 crash in San Diego, CA in Sept. of 1978. That airline and other parties all made critical errors. The airline went out of biz. USAir took its place. Again -- it shows just how vulnerable all travelers are. Mistakes cost lives -- period! * Peace & Love, Cav . *
History does repeat itself. Inadequate training. I personally never care to fly on these DC-9's. I'm glad that was the only MD aircraft in the fleet. The rest were Boeing and Lockheed.
Crazy unexplained. I flew 80s and 717 for yx.
Nice simulation.
Thanks!
20 seconds is not enough time to do anything, I don't think the pilots can be blamed here.
You're right about it being not much time, but one pilot wasn't responding at all to the emergency and the other chose the wrong inputs. Ultimately they both responded in ways that made it worse, so they still share responsibility with the mechanical failure, because with the correct response they could have survived.
Except for the little crash thing......
A trajedy and mere seconds to react RIP
Midwest Express just started when they got this accident, and was reasonable successful in the 25 years afterwards, popular and no other accidents. Nowadays with social media a new small airline which crashes an old 2nd hand jet due to mechanical failure and insufficently trained pilots would be boycotted and grounded immediately.
I am very sorry to see this happening. May the Lord bless all those who were affected by this tragic incident. And the families. In Jesus Name.
these simulators look real
Can you do a simulation of the russian plane that had a suspected intoxicated pilot flying they crew got disoriented, started fighting in the cabin and it went on about 20 minutes. It finally crashed in Perm, Russia.
I have an old video of it in Spanish but I'm planning on doing a more updated one in the near future in English.
Omg! You had so much incorrect on this. 1st the background traffic noise is not from MKE. It’s from some other airport. And you had it take off the wrong runway. It took off to the west and crashed in a salvage yard not south.
It crashed in the outskirts of the Cudahy Nature Preserve. The salvage yard up the street.
So many pilots panic,or make idiotic decisions costing lives it is enough to make one refrain from flying.