🔌 This week’s Unplugged with the Elac speakers bit.ly/4dk0ERA or amzn.to/3Xu8qSW! Check the description for all the rest! 🔌Questions about the new Elac Debut? Watch the full review here ua-cam.com/video/B3JKqEBf91w/v-deo.html 😀If you enjoyed this video, please hit the 👍 Like button! Watch every UNPLUGGED here bit.ly/43NnDkT 🙏Please stay on topic & be respectful. ⬆Channel Policies and FTC Disclosures are available in the description box above.
Why haven’t you accepted Danny Richie’s invitation to visit his facility and evaluate his work on our behalf, whether it’s his open baffle designs as well as the crossover upgrades. Don’t be like Gene Della Salla at Audioholics and wimp out with lame excuses. Danny’s upgrades are all about crossover parts quality as well as ensuring driver integration and smooth response
@@stephenyoud6125 If the "invitation" I believe you are referencing is the one he made in that ridiculous video that he and Ron put out suggesting that before he sent out his product for review, you needed to come to his facility to be trained on how to listen to and evaluate his/any product respectfully, that wasn't an invitation; that was nothing more than a man set out to belittle other reviewers. Even if we were to take his invitation as genuine, why would we travel to a facility (on our own dime, no less) to review his product rather than review it in our space like every other product from any other brand? Would you accept such a requirement from another brand, or would you see it as an attempt to influence the review or reviewer? Rather than ask us why we haven't accepted an "invitation," why not ask yourself what makes his product different from any other. Why shouldn't his product be reviewed in the reviewer's space where it will have the opportunity to be tested and compared to its peers and be treated no differently than any other product, especially since he claims to have superior products or offers a fix for? I can tell you that if Elac had told us we had to come wherever they are to listen and review their product, there's no way we would have said yes. And I have a feeling if that had been the requirement, the audience would not have seen it as a gracious invitation to "visit" their facility. To be clear, this is our policy regardless of the brand or product. From our perspective, "reviews" that take place off-site and are controlled by the manufacturer aren't really reviews but rather advertisements for a product. I take no issue with anyone who feels differently, brands that do them, or reviewers that participate in those scenarios. We simply don't do them, and if we ever did, there would be no confusion that it was any but a sponsored project and not a "review." I really hope this helps explain our position.
Please do include comments on speakers or Amps that you found not to work or had issues. Even if its a quality control or firmware requirement cause, its still very important to know about in case your viewers were considering buying them. Even if its tacked on the end of these Unplugged videos as Unhonourable mentions.
Thank you Andrew and Kristi; after my $10k (cumulatively over 15yrs) Frankenstein system of carefully selected audiophile separates finally gave up the ghost in 2019, I started looking for replacement. In my research, I was Blown Away by how much the state of the art had improved since the 1990's! After Your review and recommendation, I purchased the Kanto Tuk, with stands, and a sub for less than $2k!!! Tuk sound much more resolving, revealing, spacious, with shockingly cleaner detail than my old system did, for less than $2k! Best speaker purchase I've ever made! I liked the Tuk so well that I've purchased a second pair for my other home.
If crossover components and cone material does not matter then why do speakers sound diffrent? I have upgraded the crossover in my speakers myself just by replaceing the same vaule compenents with better quality ones and now the speaker sounds better. Quality of parts do make a difference. Try building a pair DIY speaker kits, one set with stock parts and the other with upgraded parts and listen for yourself. Or buy a set of comercial speakers and do the same.
This is mistake so your loudspeakers will sound different. No more as it was designed. Each capacitor has equivalent serial resistance. If you replace electrolytic capacitor with high esr to film one with low esr you shall also correct resistors. Only resistors and inductors can be swap for same values but better quality without measurements and desig work.
The components inside a speaker are in fact very important to many of us. The 'who cares" attitude is short sighted for such a channel. I'm an engineer and I know for a fact that many of todays mass market products (even well engineered ones) are shipped to market with known manufacturing tradeoffs (cost, supply chain, etc). Some components inevitably fall short in performance or durability. E.g. Cars (lackluster tires, suspension, audio system, etc. on a new luxury car). In many cases, upgrading certain components can have a HUGE impact and improve performance and longevity on an otherwise well designed product. It's not always as simple as simply buying another product instead. Also, many people actually enjoy the process of upgrading and customizing.
I spent many years designing crossovers for high end 3 way transmission line speakers , even though I tried to be budget conscious these would regularly cost £200 /300 per side.... and that was making compromises. So its easy to see why a 3k commercial speaker just cant have a decent crossover, those of us that have experimented with crossovers foy years realise its what makes or breaks a speaker.. drive units are actually not that expensive... its the crossovers. Wrong Audience though Andrew.
Jeez dude. You have some hate against DIY. The hobby is different things for different people. If someone wants to replace cheap capacitors, and inductors in a speaker let them.
I have a pair of Stradivari Amorat floorstanders, current cost is around £12500 in the UK. Imagine my surprise when I found they contained a pair of cheap VIFA tweeters costing around £40-£50 for the pair and the thing is, I knew the higher frequencies were not as good as they should be. After a bit of research I found a pair of new scanspeak illuminators costing 10x the price of the original. They needed to be soldered in but were perfect in terms of size and specification. These have transformed my listening experience. You can talk abouy diy speakers but dont think that just because you buy expensive speakers you are getting expensive parts. As I now know, many contain cheap parts that can be improved upon.
I think you guys are missing the point with crossovers. you can tune it like a EQ as you like the sound. Some are good at it, and some are less good at it. But with the cheap parts you are just getting that, and not all the clarity or should I say all the noise that is there. The majority are probably not aware of it, but you wont understand it if you don't know what to listen for. All in all we are not talking about things that everybody will notice, but it is there and when you have discovered it you might rather have that and opt to use EQ on your stereo instead if you want some extra extra something. Don't get me wrong, I have had speakers that are tuned like this, and have slite distortion and such, but they still sound fun and really good than cheaper alternatives. None the less after hours of listening there is always something more relaxing with a good crossover that has the least amount of stored energy and so on. So seeing the crossover can immediately tell us who do care how that speaker will sound on certain aspects of the entire soundstage.
There's another way to look at this. Think about people who buy cars. Some people buy a car and think of it as simple transportation. Some people buy really nice cars and enjoy really nice transportation. Then there's people who buy a car, maybe even a really nice, expensive, and fast car and immediately pop the hood and start and swapping or adding parts. There are countless companies out there who have been selling aftermarket performance products for years.... Nobody considers that strange. Nobody says that companies that sell hot rod car parts are tricking people into thinking their cars are no good. To me it's the same thing. I don't understand the difference.
GR is basically saying many popular speakers are flawed out of the box and people are buying inferior products and basically getting ripped off, unless of course, you buy and install their upgrade kits. This is the impression I got from their videos almost immediately.
Very tough one to swallow, parts are critical! I can tell you after many ,many crossovers upgrades, is night and day difference. Manufactures cuts a lot a costs in parts, maybe you have a very speaker design and potential and the upgrade will take it to the next level.
Ive compared countless parts and capasitors and there is 0 difference if values are the same. Just use cheap poly caps and you are fine. Cant get any better.
Yes Andrew, don’t spend $200 on Modifying a $ 400 speaker, but I there are two examples of successful companies using really cheap parts that Compromise Sound. The two standouts in this category are magnapan and Klipsch. Both use poor Quality crossover parts, and both lack attention to proper bracing for economical reasons. I have modified both the speakers brands for friends that have made a worthwhile improvement. Now, for reference, I have built many loudspeakers. A few were terrible when I started the rest, pretty good to great, but I did come across a pair of Vandersteen fives that I could not improve on.
I got here from the GR Research video. I kind of think it like this. You buy a car you can afford and after a while you would like a little more performance out of it. Same with speakers. There is a lot of fun actually getting in there and working on something yourself. I don’t begrudge anyone for trying something out and getting a little experience with it and possibly learning something in the process.
Upgrading or tinkering if you want to is fine, but GR is sorta coming from the viewpoint some speakers are flawed and only sound good once those flaws are corrected by installing their kits.
if he showed adequate testing before and after then sure ppl would be able to trust it’s more than just free advertising and arrogance. changing a value of a component changes design which changes sounds and it ga easily go either way could sound worse. like his magic cable he has placebo testing things for you. talks down to scientific thinkers by a associating us w flat earth ers which is great evident of his manipulative insecure scammer confirmation biased ways
If you want to tweak and expirement, there is nothing wrong with that - I get into that myself. You just have to be aware of two things: 1) It can easily be a rabbit hole that goes deep, fast. This means you can start spending a lot of money and that can influence, subconsciously, your opinion as to if the tweaks have made improvements. Some people don't mind this as they love to tweak and experiment. There is nothing wrong with that. 2) Marketing hype can influence people into thinking more about what components and engineering went into a speaker (or any component) vs the sonic profile it will have when you listen to it in your space. And that is the point of this video. You should be open minded and buying what sounds good to you, which mitigates the need to tweak to begin with.
Of course parts matter. If they didn't, no manufacturer would bother including high quality components. Every speaker is made to a price point and some manufacturers put that money into making the speaker enclosure attractive, while others put it into the drivers and crossovers. Which do you think performs better?
My holiday speakers: Buchardt A500SE. Active, wireless, go down to 25 Hz, easy to set up & adapt to room acoustics, plenty loud if needed and not too big to transport. Took them to multiple airbnbs and that showed me how much room acoustics differ from room to room.
If I’m spending more than $400 on a pair of speakers I want to know what’s inside of them and that I’m getting my moneys worth. If you don’t care about what’s inside the speaker, find a different hobby
Realistically, the price you set as standard, i think is a little bit low for us to expect better components, but if i go for more than $999 on a pair.. Well, i definitely care!
Moneys worth is if they look good in my environment, and I enjoy the sound. I could care less inside of the speaker that I don't see, sounds like this hobby might not be for you.
Just google for pics then. I think most people wouldn’t care what’s inside a $400 pair of speakers. Just trust that the sound signature of the speaker is as intended by said company. I’ve had $2000 speakers and currently have $30k speakers and I was never intrigued as to what’s inside. I like the sound and the looks and that’s all that matters. I’ve seen my father go down the rabbit hole with tinkering with crossover parts. All a waste of money. Though I am talking about 30 years ago so maybe we have more knowledge of what works and what doesn’t now
Wow - this video really blew up. Danny responded as have others that are throwing their hat into the ring. I think that people are responding to this video too literally. I'm sure none of us would be happy with a crossover comprised of a paper clip and a buffalo nickle, but your point is valid that the real issue is if the sound is what you want to hear and you can go down a rabbit hole of "tweaking" you speakers (or anything in the audio chain) and then you subjectively decide if the tweaking has improved anything and if there was an ROI on it. The problem with this rabbit hole is that it goes deep fast. First it is new crossovers, then tweeter swaps, then better speaker cable, then speaker cable stands, then premium connectors, etc. Where does it end? To your point, buy something that sounds great to you; whether the tweeter is silk or diamond is irrelevant if it sounds right to you.
If you like to tinker, tinker! If you like DIY, do it! If you don't care about what's inside, but the sound alone, Don't care. Don't let anyone tell you how to hobby. You see, it isn't always the upgrade worth having. Like the Linton's or the 600m mk2. If I understood Andrew right here, you might be dragged into a change that really isn't as good as promised, and you're several hundred bucks short. However, you are free to do whatever you want in this hobby.
Cone materials matter : Crossovers matter : Number of drivers matter : just make sure you know how to make it all work together to achieve the sound your looking for. *Diaphragms have a sound signature *Crossover parts/ topology have a sound signature *Driver count / enclosure / layout have a sound signature Then it comes to the designer to get the sound voicing they are looking to accomplish by combining all the variables.
Thank you Andrew and Kristi for all of your hard work. I currently run a 2.1 setup with a Denon X3700 with Polk R600 and a SVS SB-3000. I enjoy my speakers and cannot replace them even if I wanted to. They are grandfathered in (WAF) to our space. If I replace the X3700 with the Marantz M1, would the R600 sound/perform significantly better? Our listening is 70/30 movies/music. Also, please try to review the Denon Home Amp. I, and I’m sure many of your viewers, would love to hear your comparison to the M1. Thank you for your insight.
If you use the X3700's room correction, there's a chance the M1 would sound very different and may lead you to believe it's not as good, or that your speakers sound "different" through it (the M1) versus the Denon. If you don't use Audyssey for room correction, the M1 might sound more controlled and authoritative. But you will give up room correction and that could be the difference maker if you're used to your speakers being better tailored to your room. Thanks for your support!
I can see both of your views. I'm not going to buy someone's upgrade kit for my Sony sscs5's, but if I thought that a pair of speakers sounded natural enough, but just needs a bit more refining and is in a good enough cabinet. Then upgrading crossover makes sense. Modded Honda Civic or buy a new car?? People do both. Both are right.
A lot of high end speaker companies have what is called a mass loaded speaker. They use sand or concrete and put something heavy on the top. I'm a fan of that design and I make my speaker cabinets tops and bottoms 3" thick and multi layered. My whole cabinet is multi layered.75 MDF flexible industrial adhesive and I cover that with solid hardwood 75" thick. And they are like knocking on concrete . The best portable Bluetooth speaker I have ever heard is a full range 3 way with 2" 4" aluminum reference mids #2 1" titanium tweeters and a 5.5 subwoofer that has 9mm x max with a 8 " passive radiator on the back that goes down to 35 hz. , it's solid oak with the baffle wrapped in leather. I wanted a speaker I could take with me that was full range and sounds beautiful with separation and sound stage and I couldn't find anything that just wasn't a bass box so I designed and built it.
There is something wrong to think speaker designers are “gods” and their designs can not be improved ! Some people just like to improve any product they buy and get great enjoyment to make improvements. If you don’t have a technical mind and can’t figure out things you shouldn’t look down on people who can !
13 years ago I bought a Sony budget home theater system. The sound wasn't bad and the speakers just held it's own. Then, in 2022 I bought a NAD 701 receiver and connected the Sony SS MSP3000 speakers to it and oh my goodness the sound that came out of those speakers were so good.
If we're vacationing somewhere by car, we take the Beosound A5 or as my partner calls it, "the lunchbox." Really like that it connects to both Bluetooth and wifi and it's super easy to carry to the backyard.
So this is kinda why i remember Andrew Jones became famous. This was during the bit of hubub in the early 2010s where rare earth minerals skyrocketed in price and Andrew had moved over to Pioneer Consumer and he made the best speaker he could with the affordable materials he had on hand. Ceramic magnets instead of neodymium and the like. The home theatre speakers ended up winning awards left and right. And that is when he kinda became the champion for high quality audio not needing to cost an arm and a leg.
The simple fact is, if you have the basic skills, you can EASILY take a budget speaker with good drivers and a solid cabinet, spend a LITTLE money on better electronics, and make it OUTPERFORM a much more expensive retail bought and assembled speaker, WITHOUT the massive retail MARK-UP for the parts and labor. And this is NOT unique to audio. The same is true for building your own computer, doing your own home improvements, maintaining your own car... So, whenever I hear someone suggest this is not a worthwhile endeavor, and instead you should just "buy better, buy right", I ALSO hear "A fool and his money..." following right behind in rebuttal.
Just starting the "look of the speaker" part, if looks weren't an issue, speakers would definitely sound better at a given price point. Everything is a tradeoff. If an aesthetic improvement costs $20 to implement, you've just increased the MSRP by $100. Which do you do for a certain price point? Make it look better or use better quality parts that aren't obvious in a picture or showroom? Which sells more speakers?
I always say speakers are very very subjective!! Cost doesnt mean a speaker will be good or not, you expect more from higher end and more costly speakers
I agree and disagree with you. Disagreement: parts do matter and driver differences is all marketing. Good example on the parts front are the Purifi midranges and woofers. These are high excursion, low distortion drivers as in higher excursion with lower distortion than previous drivers have been. These are expensive drivers and I think there are applications where these drivers can make a big difference (like 2-way bookshelf designs). Are they a game changer? No. Drivers like these can simplify the crossover by operating over a bigger frequency range or playing lower into the bass area than other similarly sized drivers. At the end of the day, these drivers are one more option a designer may have, depending on the price point he or she is designing to. I will grant you this, most speaker driver development has been restricted to refinements of well known driver topologies. I don’t see any particular one as necessarily better, more as options for a designer. Where I totally agree is that no one should get caught up on parts, be they drivers or crossover parts. As an audiophile, your concern should be how well whatever is in your speaker has been implemented. And you judge that with your ears. I also agree that upgrades are questionable. You may be unhappy with your speakers, but you may not know why and certainly not how to fix it. The easiest path is either to just live with your speakers or buy a new pair more pleasing to your ears. Instead of parts/materials, audiophiles should focus on basic design configurations, not in terms of sound, but in terms of whether it will work in your listening room. Open baffle speakers are a good example of this. They can sound great, but they need to be out in the room. If you don’t have the space or the SAF to get them out into the room, they won’t work for you because they simply will not sound good placed close to the wall. Rear ported speaker can offer enhanced bass performance due to the bass reinforcement from the back wall, but you need some placement flexibility to find the position where the bass works best in your room. The point is that some designs will work better in your room than others and you need to understand what those designs are. This is overlooked FAR too often.
Thank you for this episode, it was really needed for some to hear. One of my favorite speaker lines is the NHT super line original designed by Ken Kantor. Silk dome tweeter and a paper cone woofer. The whole line sounds great. All be it basic cabinet finish, still looks good. For the price I don't care what parts NHT used or what crossovers they use, I love the sound and performance. That's after owning speakers from Energy, SVS, definitive technology, and yamaha NS 690ii. I'm not a speaker designer and i dont care to pretend be one. Thank you guys for doing what you do!
This episode is a fantastic episode! The "What do you want from us" rhetorical remark from Kristi was suitable for most any situation, except maybe going through the drive-thru of a fast-food restaurant! And I whole-heartedly agree with Andrew about who cares what is inside the box! If you are questioning that then I advise you to build your own speakers and join a speaker -building website or group. I shall quit while I am still civil before my '70s upbringing comes into play...
Bought a pair of Dynaudio Special 40s last year...best speakers I've ever owned! I only listen to LPs, and these speakers are perfectly designed to reproduce that beautiful vinyl warmth. They're driven by a Yamaha AS-1200 amp...great show, by the way. Always enjoy your content.
Kevlar is a specifiic formulation of a generall classification of para aramid polymer fibers patented by Dupont . In other words aramid is a type of plastic.. Aramid fiber has an excellent tensile strength to mass ratio due to its long chained molecular structure .
What makes a good box speaker? It's not a difficult formula. A stout, well braced non resonant box w/ rounded edges. Drivers w/ smooth responses that roll off gently and have little stored energy. Tweeters closely spaced to mid woof to maintain vertical phase alignment. Crossover w/ quality poly caps and air coil inductors and quality resisters designed to blend drivers properly and maintain phase. And no damn ferrous metal anywhere in the signal chain. Paint it w/ truck be liner and sell affordably or wrap in exotic veneer and sell for serious money. but it will sound good.
One of the most enjoyable audiophile episodes I’ve seen till now on YT. As an ELAC debut 6.2 floorstanders, my entire setup (and the room playing a major part) sounds better than most rooms I’ve heard at audio shows.
The tweaked discussion resonated with me because it’s something I like to do. But not to brand new speakers. It’s fun to tweak used budget speakers that you can find on Marketplace for pennys on the dollar. Some mad men on the internet swapped out a tweeter and rebuilt a crossover and then open sources the whole entire thing. Like conversion of the Pioneer BS22 to the Philharmonic Audio Affordable Accuracy Monitor. When you’ve bought the speakers for $20-$40 what’s about $60-$70 in parts? When you’re only in it for sub $150, are you really going to find something new at that price point to best what you’ve modified? Maybe. Maybe not. Either way, it’s not a lot of money at risk. But it is all relative.
for travel, Cambridge Sound (a Henry Kloss company) had a suitcase with L & R satellites, a woofer built into the suitcase (which became its cabinet) with space for a small cassette deck or portable CD player. it was affordable and excellent.
I do think you have that right, Andrew. 500 to 1200, across a number audio products. And probably because that price tier is very competetive, just a bump above entry level and at a place - particularly, where consumers do have expectations about what their money should get them...realistically or not. I actually it's a good place to start.
Andrew, Your comments about Elac speakers, and budget speaker construction made me smile from ear-to-ear! I had a pair of ENERGY 3 speakers (mid-80s vintage) that simply out performed MANY of my friend's more "bespoke" bookshelf speakers (above 80 hz). Their components lasted about 25 years before having issues. A great (!) investment of mere $250/pair. Thanks for your channel and both of your perspectives.
LOL, good video Andrew/Kristi. With old ears & damaged hearing, my audio perceptions of different DACs, amps, speakers, hi-rez music, etc are very limited, let alone being able to detect an audio improvement of a more expensive capacitor or a resistor over cheaper brands. But I do subscribe to a popular DIY channel for the entertainment and educational elements. On the other hand, HT dialog clarity is very important to me and I will spend $ in search of improved vocals.
I can see both sides here - you get what you pay for, and some speakers are incredible value for the money. But not all speakers are designed well or have the same performance to cost ratio at a particular price point. I've had many speaker/amp/preamp/integrated/source combinations over the years, and have had some disappointments. I prefer to build my own, from kit (CSS, GR research, Curt Campbell), knowing what I am getting for the money, and putting in the sweat equity to avoid that disappointment.
Andrew Jones is known by me because Pioneer, Elac, and now MoFi tell the public that he designed them. Why did they do that? I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if he made doing so a requisite for taking the job. Also, I would love to hear Jones' opinion about crossover and speaker materials mattering and his take on making speakers to a price point.
Just wanted to say..... I really appreciate that you put up images for us to see. Adds to my enjoyment seeing the visual that goes with the name. Thank You 😁🙏
When Polk released there Turbine woofer it was hailed as a break through!! Only JVC made the same type woofer 50 years ago, if audio has moved forward, speakers are still on the starting line ..
I don't think anything is wrong with upgrading X-overs to improve speakers especially if you really like them. GR Research should be jumping in on this video being they do lots of improvement upgrades to owners loved speakers and there are many who love the improvements. I agree somewhat with Andrew that if one loves the sound of the stock speakers and they have crap for electronics then don't mess with it. But sometimes selling and upgrading to higher cost new speakers do not always provide much more of an improvement. I had a listening opportunity listening to over $100 rig consisting of Borresen loud speakers driven by Aavik front end. Well they did sound very good but other than aesthetics no freaking way would I pay for a system like that for that kind of money even if I had the budget in that range! Bear in mind this was in a brick and mortar high end store thus maybe in the right room the sound could be more appreciated. On another listening opportunity I listen to a 20 year old pair of Polk towers driven by a refurbished 1970 Yamaha 2 channel receiver and loved them! The owner was all about speaker placement and room treatments so I think that is the key.
I know what is in my speakers because I built and designed and built them and I like them to look like a piece of furniture. I think Andrew Jones is well known because he does interviews and most designers are interverts. My opinion on cones is that I like a paper blend. I paper sounds natural and the blends are lighter and faster. Aluminum and other compounds ring more when they break up. I don't like polypropylene, I think it sounds like Tupperware.
Materials used in speakers definitely have a sound signature of their own. Now I will have to say that paper still has a following most notably look at the Wilson audio speakers and also Steynem speakers, and they are totally state of the art and preferable by good amount of homeowners and also reviewers that have them in their homes that has to be saying something. as a matter of fact, my speakers are the Wilson audio MAXX V ‘s now I’ll have to stay there many speakers out there that they I could easily live with that use of course different materials. I love Planars and electoral statics. Everything is a balancing act and of course personal preferences.
People like Andrew Jones and Peter Comeau are 'famous', not only because they are good designers, but also because they are charismatic representatives for their brand.
Regarding inefficient budget speakers, I would add that typically budget speakers are smaller bookshelf type speakers, in part to save on cabinet costs. More difficult to get outstanding efficiency from a small two-way, regardless of the price point.
Thanks! Mike at Magic here asking for ur help, I currently have a Wilsenton R8 stereo tube amp that I LOVE, and really want to incorporate that into my surround sound system by using preouts on my receiver, the question is, what receiver do u recommend? I initially was going to go with the Marantz cinema 50 as it would do everything I need it to do and looks gorgeous and can therefore stay on top of the cabinet with the wilsenton, but adding on Dirac takes an already fairly expensive reciever and makes it almost too much for me. the wilsenton only has 35 watts, but their tube watts which always seem to be way louder powering the Klipsch RP8-ll tower speakers with a JL Audio dominion 8inch sub rounding out the stereo components. For the surround speakers it's Klipsch Reference Center, rear, surround and most likely 1 or 2 sets of Kilpsch in ceiling speakers Atmos speakers. Is the Cinema 50 plus Dirac my best bet or would I get similar enough results with the Onkyo 50, only having to buy the bass control, and put it in the cabinet as opposed to on the cabinet? Or is there something else u recommend entirely? Other than the Stereo complication everything else is pretty simple, 1 Arc HDMI to the big screen, 1 PS4 to the Receiver all streaming handled by Apple TV 4K and 1 analog connection direct to the Stereo for heavy music listening or just streamed via Apple thru Receiver for more casual listening, really appreciate all ur reviews and reading this super long message.
The Cinema 50 is a great AVR, no doubt, but I understand, paying $2500 plus upwards of an additional $500-$700 for DIRAC is asking a lot. The RZ50 from Onkyo is an absolute workhorse and a great AVR that is very comparable to the Marantz (maybe not as sexy looking, but performance-wise, up there). That said, the RZ50 uses Onkyo's older amplifier architecture, whereas the new RZ70 does not and IS better than the 50. However, the RZ70 costs more than the Cinema 50 but not as much as the Cinema 50 with DIRAC. But here's the good news. The RZ70 is going to get a baby brother here soon, the RZ30. The RZ30 will retail for, I think, less than $1500 new and should go on sale or start shipping soon. The RZ70 is better, but you may be just fine with the 30. We're supposedly getting one sent to us soon, but I don't know when our review will hit the channel, but if you can wait, that review will happen. If you don't want to wait, based on what I know of the RZ50 and RZ70, I'm going to take a chance and say the RZ30 will be pretty good too. Best part is, all the Onkyo AVRs have DIRAC already, you would have to pay for the subwoofer add-on, but maybe you can get by without it 🤷♂️ Also, if you shop Pioneer Elite or Integra you will find variants of the Onkyo line there and maybe some deals.
I care about what’s inside of a speaker. You can spend 5-10 grand on speakers and have poor cheap crossover parts inside. I prefer some quality. I can hear a difference in parts and cables.
If you care about quality parts and you prefer quality, why would you buy speakers built like that in the first place? So if you can hear the difference in cables can you prove that in a double blinds test reliably and consistently over time? Because you need to, to be able to claim you actually hear the differences in cables. I also hope you kept copious and well organized notes so you can write a paper to be reviewed by peers so they can try and repeat your abilities with someone else. Since, as I'm sure you will know, no human, as of this date, has ever, reliably and consistently detected differences in cables. Congratulations! You are a super-human. OR you just have what we all have, confirmation bias. Good luck.
Great episode & I agree 100% about people just wanting to pick apart a product out of context. On that note... It seems that a lot of people are misinformed about these speakers & where they fit into the overall Elac speaker range. During the video when Kristi was talking about past Elac speakers you reviewed, the photo you showed was the Debut Reference 2.0 which is one tier above & $300 more the new entry Debut 3.0. It seems that a lot of people think these are the only speaker Elac makes. They have 4 speaker lines in their "Home" or budget range & 6 speaker lines in their "Premium" range. The home range retail prices top out @ $1199 for a pair of bookshelf's & $1199 each for the floorstand. The premium range tops out @ $3499 for the pair of bookshelf's & $42,999.00 for the Concentro floorstand......... Context really matters!!
Andrew Jones is known for maximizing what a design can do, no matter what the budget for development of a speaker is. When it comes to electronics Schiit heads in a similar direction.
I know it's not much of a field given spacing, but the Level is technically capable of playing in stereo. So that saves a little space in this speculative suitcase.
I've had some fun in the speaker rebuilding arena. It is its own hobby, but it's not a cost-effective hobby. However, modding is an accessible hobby, where so much tech in the electronics arena requires considerable skill. Also, most of the changes to a speaker are reversible. It's best to play with older speakers, where who cares, but modding a new speaker is definitely a head scratcher.
Many cannot build a nice cabinet, but can upgrade parts or slopes in crossovers, add bracing, better insulation, add a damping layer, reglue boxes (yes, some companies do this poorly), and it makes sense to start with a modern speaker with fresh drivers… I have fixed a lot of old speakers and also completely rebuilt two pair with new drivers, x-overs, and all - the rebuild can be fantastic… Many of the recent modern retro style speakers prove that people want classic design and current drivers and parts
@@ganck1147 I get it and can’t argue if it sounds good who cares about what kind of parts are used in the crossover. But you know that kind of talk is blasphemy among audiophiles!😂
I have to go part way and agree with Danny on this one. Part way in that you don't need to spend $250-$500 on upgrades to hear the improvements. A $50 investment in better parts for a 2 way speaker like this can help a lot! Why don't the company's just do it and sell them for $75 more and really impress the hell out of everyone? Oh that's right, nobody would upgrade to the $1,200 speakers.
@@johnloupis9344 Personally I’d rather see the manufacturers invest the money in making the cabinets more inert versus upgrading crossover components. I definitely hear cabinet issues long before capacitor type!
Well, since you asked “what do you want from us“, here’s my question. The interior architecture of the new Onkyo RZ 70 is completely different in appearance from the RZ 50. I’m wondering if you have any knowledge if this was designed by a new group of peopleto fight the overheating and HDMI issues that Onkyos have had for a while? I’ve been hoping for better quality and higher dependability for a while and I’m wondering if this is the first step? Thanks!
The RZ70 was designed by a new team at Klipsch/Onkyo and is an all-new design for Onkyo, whereas the RZ50 had some carry-over from the previous teams or generations.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews Thanks Andrew! Have you heard any feedback or gotten any information about whether the new design is more dependable, more effective, or generally better to make it worth the nearly 3K msrp?
Not to state the obvious, but Andrew Jones is the rare engineer who is also a natural born salesman. That's the difference. He goes out and sells whatever he designs. He likes taking to people and he likes talking about his metier. Not your typical engineer. ;)
The brofest with Andrew Jones comes down to one word… PRESENTATION. Andrew Jones gives the best presentations by far of any other audio designer. If you’ve never been to one of his presentations then do yourself a favor. Then you’ll understand. By the way, he’s a twin. Most people don’t know that about him.
LOL on the crossover parts, but here's the kicker they matter... Try it yourself, I have. A sand cast resistor on a tweeter is an easy part to change out. The irony is it makes a huge sonic difference. Had a pair of bookshelf polk speakers back in the day and the crossover was the size of the binding post. Never understood why it sounded horrid till I saw that. Of course it was probably the mix of parts and probably didn't measure well either. Still I have a high end diy speaker and didn't think it mattered either till I change a resistor on the tweeter. Just one resistor opened it up sonically in a way I'll never forget. So I moved on and replaced some capacitors on the woofer. Here is the thing I didn't hear a change there and went from clarity caps to mundorfs (expensive change). It didn't make much if any difference to me. So it depends on the network and what is changed. The reality is that everyone builds to a price point. No one has great parts at an amazing price. It just doesn't happen. I have a set of 15k speakers that still have sand cast resistors. They also have steel core inductors as well which hold a magnetic charge. I'm not saying boutique parts make all the difference in the world, but they do matter. The issue is you get to the point of diminishing returns very quick. Maybe one of these days I'll rebuild my bookshelf speaker with junk crossovers and put it up so people can hear the difference.
While parts and overall construction matters, the point is that when the sound is great or what someone desires, then what does it actually matter? If you change parts in your speakers I hope you like them more but that difference doesn't equal better for all. The same applies to cables and measurements
The reason is definitely that he has built low cost, high cost and middle cost speakers that performed well. He also hustles at all the trade shows, and talks to people, and does have good promotion. If he wasn’t good, and prolific, one would know him
@@andrewrobinsonreviews Speaking of Goldenear, I don't recall seeing you review one of their products yet. I have always been intrigued by them. Do you have any contacts with Goldenear regarding review product? I have been eyeballing the ForceField 30 subs for future upgrades when I recover from my recent Paradigm and Emotiva upgrade.
The waveguide on the tweeter for the Elac 3.0s is not as big and deep as the Arendals but I think that type of waveguide is something we will see more of from speaker designers. It just gives so much better off axis performance. I'm a bit turned off by the vertical jewelry on the Elac tweeter waveguide but if Kristi likes it, I love it lol
Andrew, did ever came across Pearl Acoustics Sibelius speakers? Maybe u are able to review them in the future… Harley Lovegrove seems to be a nice guy and will send you a pair 😉
@@txerapng Life is good! Speaking of the moon, did you see the harvest moon / partial eclipse on Tuesday? I've never seen the moon look so bright and clear. Glad you're well!!
@@KristiWright I haven't seen the moon this week, but some great things have happened to me, that I have not still processed completely, i am really excited. Heard the TV is up in the backyard, its getting closer to finished isn't it?
@@txerapng That's awesome!! Yes, the TV is up. We have some outdoor furniture arriving today. I think the pool is officially done. All that's left is a polish of the tiles to clean them up. The team is doing a second coat of concrete on the privacy wall, so we don't see the cinder blocks. Up next: painting the wall, landscaping and more outdoor furnishings. There's also plans for outdoor audio but it may be a while before that happens.
Based on the title, I know exactly what's inside my speakers. I built two pairs based on the Parts-Express house brand, Dayton Audio. Anyone else heard of D.B. Keele, a speaker designer from way back? My Electro Voice horns were designed by him.
Great video! I really agree with your train of thought in "KEEPING S#!T IN PERSPECTIVE" and "ARE HIFI MANUFACTURERS OUT TO RIP YOU OFF?", I think that people went from a _cork sniffing_ mentality to a _cork snorting_ addiction
People are coming for the look of these? Damn, to me they look sleek and very nice to be honest, kind of a mesh between old school design and this futuristic hifi look we are getting more and more nowadays.
That’s been a ‘thing’ with Andrew Jones speakers. The irony of the Pioneer run (which I still own) is they are super budget speakers but the bookshelves are borderline 4 ohm nominal and the entire range have somewhat middling sensitivity. They really need a powerful amp and that’s kind of an oxymoron as this is a budget product that you would expect to be powered by a budget (low cost) amp.
This was a great and fun video! Based on The review and the follow-up, I am probably going to purchase a pair of these! By the way, Andrew, my next speaker after the Elacs, will be a speaker with a crossover made of paper cups! 😅
It isn't always "Of course they gonna use the cheapest parts!" Buchardt has used fancy parts for their crossover of the S400 MKII. Andrew Jones uses the cheap yellow and white components for his MoFi speakers.
Andrew & Kristi you are one of those UA-camrs that make me look forward to next ”episode” Awesome! 👍🏼 I would be super duper happy if you could answer this question. I have a high end dedicated home theater. But for my budget tv/2ch system. Which one would YOU choose, Elac Debut 3.0 B6.3 or Klipsch RP-600m ii? Ignore any price difference. I like a dynamic sound with clear dialog. But as i said, which one would you choose? Happy weekend./From Sweden🇸🇪😊
The more dynamic and contrasty of the two speakers, that is, the sensation of greater bass with perhaps "higher" highs is going to be the Klipsch. Will it be more intelligible, that I can't say for certain. The better all-round speaker that is likely to be more agreeable or neutral, that's the ELAC all the way.
I do have a crush on AJ. However, I don't like guys, but I've had 2 of his designs. Seriously speaking, he's a nice guy who answers when you have a question. For real.
Youre not gonna get all the efficiency out of those elacs with a wimm amp unless you mono block somehow. I tried the elac unifi ub52 2.0s with a yahama as801 and it didnt work for me.
I have the Carina's and the RZ50 won't run them. They're quite a bit harder to drive than the debut's. It's fine for movies, but stereo listening forget it. I invested in the OSD Nero HTA7200 and 🤌 Magnefiique!
For the record, I do like my Unifi Reference speakers; and yes, they are crammed against the wall. That said, I’m using them with an AV receiver. Their lack of personality is a great match for all the DSP modes Yamaha can throw. Yes, I do use the AVR’s pre-outs for a separate amp for them.
Suitcase question is easy for me, a pair of Morel Biggie Powered Bluetooth speakers with battery power that would be super useful on an island. These speakers sound fantastic from their 7"×7"×4.5" profile. Best of all, a pair is only $600.
Let me preface this by saying, I love you guys and I'm just playing devils advocate when I say this... When you say "who cares" what the crossover parts are, understand that is an important factor for some people. Some people don't mind spending extra for quality parts even if the return on sound is negligable/incremental. I think this much like how you guys enjoy expensive/quality furniture and probably don't mind spending thousands on say a stone/concrete media console, when a Ikea piece would hold up your equipment just as well. FYI, Id spend the thousands on the nicer piece too, if I had the means :)
I think the point of the "who cares" comment is that these are the base or entry line of passive speaker Elac makes in their "Home" or budget speaker range. @ $450 / pair you're going to spend the same or close to it on the replacement premium parts, plus your time to replace them, & then hope you don't screw something up along the way..... Just move up the the DB Reference or Unifi or Unifi Reference. If those aren't good enough then move up their "Premium" speakers like the Corina, Solano 2.0, Vela 2.0 or Concentro, that top out @ $43K for the floorstand speaker.
@@robinsonmac You understood my point regarding the ELAC Debut 3.0 and its price point. Most speakers getting modded aren't of the thousand-dollar or more variety; it's the budget stuff. For example, a pair of Klipsch 600M MKIIs retail for $649/pair, and a popular crossover kit that "fixes" their response sells for $369, which you have to void your warranty and install yourself. Regardless, the 600M MKIIs are "worth" $649, yet some enthusiasts are now spending $1018 on the same speakers. With a budget of $1,000 for a pair of speakers, one could likely look for a better speaker with a response that is more to their liking or neutral and does not need to be modified.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews Thanks for the response. I think maybe people are trying or looking to get the sound of a higher priced speaker for a perceived bargain by upgrading? Like thinking why buy speaker "****" for $1200 when I can buy the Debut 3.0 for $450 upgrade the crossover for $375 & I saved $375. Which in their mind is the ultimate perceived speaker value....... Also, thanks for the Monitor Audio Bronze 100 comparison! The Urban Grey color of the 100's are $450 right now.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews What I also think could be happening is people who had $649 and got 600Ms initially, a year or two later get upgrade-itis and rather than having to spend $1100 (on top of the $649 they spent a couple years back) for a slightly better offering, look at upgrading for $369 as a more financially responsible way to get improved sound out of what you already have and scratch the upgrade itch. Sometimes people don't have the money to get exactly what they want at that moment, so they buy the best they can afford and later down the road, when they have a few extra bucks, they want to improve their sound without breaking the bank. Having options is always a good thing, and if boutique companies want to give hi-fi enthusiast more options to get better sound, I say "why not?!"
🔌 This week’s Unplugged with the Elac speakers bit.ly/4dk0ERA or amzn.to/3Xu8qSW! Check the description for all the rest!
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Why haven’t you accepted Danny Richie’s invitation to visit his facility and evaluate his work on our behalf, whether it’s his open baffle designs as well as the crossover upgrades. Don’t be like Gene Della Salla at Audioholics and wimp out with lame excuses. Danny’s upgrades are all about crossover parts quality as well as ensuring driver integration and smooth response
@@stephenyoud6125 If the "invitation" I believe you are referencing is the one he made in that ridiculous video that he and Ron put out suggesting that before he sent out his product for review, you needed to come to his facility to be trained on how to listen to and evaluate his/any product respectfully, that wasn't an invitation; that was nothing more than a man set out to belittle other reviewers.
Even if we were to take his invitation as genuine, why would we travel to a facility (on our own dime, no less) to review his product rather than review it in our space like every other product from any other brand? Would you accept such a requirement from another brand, or would you see it as an attempt to influence the review or reviewer? Rather than ask us why we haven't accepted an "invitation," why not ask yourself what makes his product different from any other. Why shouldn't his product be reviewed in the reviewer's space where it will have the opportunity to be tested and compared to its peers and be treated no differently than any other product, especially since he claims to have superior products or offers a fix for? I can tell you that if Elac had told us we had to come wherever they are to listen and review their product, there's no way we would have said yes. And I have a feeling if that had been the requirement, the audience would not have seen it as a gracious invitation to "visit" their facility.
To be clear, this is our policy regardless of the brand or product. From our perspective, "reviews" that take place off-site and are controlled by the manufacturer aren't really reviews but rather advertisements for a product. I take no issue with anyone who feels differently, brands that do them, or reviewers that participate in those scenarios. We simply don't do them, and if we ever did, there would be no confusion that it was any but a sponsored project and not a "review." I really hope this helps explain our position.
Please do include comments on speakers or Amps that you found not to work or had issues. Even if its a quality control or firmware requirement cause, its still very important to know about in case your viewers were considering buying them. Even if its tacked on the end of these Unplugged videos as Unhonourable mentions.
"Provided the app works"... LMFAO! Yeah, I have about $10,000 worth of Sonos kit - and that's exactly how I'm feeling at the moment.
Thank you Andrew and Kristi; after my $10k (cumulatively over 15yrs) Frankenstein system of carefully selected audiophile separates finally gave up the ghost in 2019, I started looking for replacement. In my research, I was Blown Away by how much the state of the art had improved since the 1990's! After Your review and recommendation, I purchased the Kanto Tuk, with stands, and a sub for less than $2k!!! Tuk sound much more resolving, revealing, spacious, with shockingly cleaner detail than my old system did, for less than $2k! Best speaker purchase I've ever made! I liked the Tuk so well that I've purchased a second pair for my other home.
If crossover components and cone material does not matter then why do speakers sound diffrent?
I have upgraded the crossover in my speakers myself just by replaceing the same vaule compenents with better quality ones and now the speaker sounds better. Quality of parts do make a difference.
Try building a pair DIY speaker kits, one set with stock parts and the other with upgraded parts and listen for yourself. Or buy a set of comercial speakers and do the same.
This is mistake so your loudspeakers will sound different. No more as it was designed. Each capacitor has equivalent serial resistance. If you replace electrolytic capacitor with high esr to film one with low esr you shall also correct resistors. Only resistors and inductors can be swap for same values but better quality without measurements and desig work.
If you have to ask why speakers sound different maybe you should find out why. Def not bcouse cables and high end crossover components.
The components inside a speaker are in fact very important to many of us. The 'who cares" attitude is short sighted for such a channel. I'm an engineer and I know for a fact that many of todays mass market products (even well engineered ones) are shipped to market with known manufacturing tradeoffs (cost, supply chain, etc). Some components inevitably fall short in performance or durability. E.g. Cars (lackluster tires, suspension, audio system, etc. on a new luxury car). In many cases, upgrading certain components can have a HUGE impact and improve performance and longevity on an otherwise well designed product. It's not always as simple as simply buying another product instead. Also, many people actually enjoy the process of upgrading and customizing.
I spent many years designing crossovers for high end 3 way transmission line speakers , even though I tried to be budget conscious these would regularly cost £200 /300 per side.... and that was making compromises. So its easy to see why a 3k commercial speaker just cant have a decent crossover, those of us that have experimented with crossovers foy years realise its what makes or breaks a speaker.. drive units are actually not that expensive... its the crossovers. Wrong Audience though Andrew.
At the end of the day, parts matter, if you put crappy tires on a Porsche, you’re not gonna be happy
So you're saying if I put Pirelli P zeros on a Camry, that Porsche better watch out because of the upmarket component I just added. 😂
If they all use the cheapest parts then they use them at all levels. So choosing the next level up doesn’t really solve the problem.
Jeez dude. You have some hate against DIY. The hobby is different things for different people. If someone wants to replace cheap capacitors, and inductors in a speaker let them.
He does let them, he just not convinced it’s worth it
So does not tube rolling matter??? Your thought process seems rather narrow minded.
I have a pair of Stradivari Amorat floorstanders, current cost is around £12500 in the UK. Imagine my surprise when I found they contained a pair of cheap VIFA tweeters costing around £40-£50 for the pair and the thing is, I knew the higher frequencies were not as good as they should be. After a bit of research I found a pair of new scanspeak illuminators costing 10x the price of the original. They needed to be soldered in but were perfect in terms of size and specification. These have transformed my listening experience. You can talk abouy diy speakers but dont think that just because you buy expensive speakers you are getting expensive parts. As I now know, many contain cheap parts that can be improved upon.
I think you guys are missing the point with crossovers. you can tune it like a EQ as you like the sound. Some are good at it, and some are less good at it. But with the cheap parts you are just getting that, and not all the clarity or should I say all the noise that is there. The majority are probably not aware of it, but you wont understand it if you don't know what to listen for. All in all we are not talking about things that everybody will notice, but it is there and when you have discovered it you might rather have that and opt to use EQ on your stereo instead if you want some extra extra something.
Don't get me wrong, I have had speakers that are tuned like this, and have slite distortion and such, but they still sound fun and really good than cheaper alternatives. None the less after hours of listening there is always something more relaxing with a good crossover that has the least amount of stored energy and so on. So seeing the crossover can immediately tell us who do care how that speaker will sound on certain aspects of the entire soundstage.
There's another way to look at this. Think about people who buy cars. Some people buy a car and think of it as simple transportation. Some people buy really nice cars and enjoy really nice transportation. Then there's people who buy a car, maybe even a really nice, expensive, and fast car and immediately pop the hood and start and swapping or adding parts. There are countless companies out there who have been selling aftermarket performance products for years.... Nobody considers that strange. Nobody says that companies that sell hot rod car parts are tricking people into thinking their cars are no good. To me it's the same thing. I don't understand the difference.
GR is basically saying many popular speakers are flawed out of the box and people are buying inferior products and basically getting ripped off, unless of course, you buy and install their upgrade kits. This is the impression I got from their videos almost immediately.
Very tough one to swallow, parts are critical! I can tell you after many ,many crossovers upgrades, is night and day difference. Manufactures cuts a lot a costs in parts, maybe you have a very speaker design and potential and the upgrade will take it to the next level.
Ive compared countless parts and capasitors and there is 0 difference if values are the same. Just use cheap poly caps and you are fine. Cant get any better.
Yes Andrew, don’t spend $200 on Modifying a $ 400 speaker, but I there are two examples of successful companies using really cheap parts that Compromise Sound. The two standouts in this category are magnapan and Klipsch. Both use poor Quality crossover parts, and both lack attention to proper bracing for economical reasons.
I have modified both the speakers brands for friends that have made a worthwhile improvement. Now, for reference, I have built many loudspeakers. A few were terrible when I started the rest, pretty good to great, but I did come across a pair of Vandersteen fives that I could not improve on.
I got here from the GR Research video. I kind of think it like this. You buy a car you can afford and after a while you would like a little more performance out of it. Same with speakers. There is a lot of fun actually getting in there and working on something yourself. I don’t begrudge anyone for trying something out and getting a little experience with it and possibly learning something in the process.
Upgrading or tinkering if you want to is fine, but GR is sorta coming from the viewpoint some speakers are flawed and only sound good once those flaws are corrected by installing their kits.
if he showed adequate testing before and after then sure ppl would be able to trust it’s more than just free advertising and arrogance. changing a value of a component changes design which changes sounds and it ga easily go either way could sound worse. like his magic cable he has placebo testing things for you. talks down to scientific thinkers by a associating us w flat earth ers which is great evident of his manipulative insecure scammer confirmation biased ways
If you want to tweak and expirement, there is nothing wrong with that - I get into that myself. You just have to be aware of two things: 1) It can easily be a rabbit hole that goes deep, fast. This means you can start spending a lot of money and that can influence, subconsciously, your opinion as to if the tweaks have made improvements. Some people don't mind this as they love to tweak and experiment. There is nothing wrong with that. 2) Marketing hype can influence people into thinking more about what components and engineering went into a speaker (or any component) vs the sonic profile it will have when you listen to it in your space. And that is the point of this video. You should be open minded and buying what sounds good to you, which mitigates the need to tweak to begin with.
Of course parts matter. If they didn't, no manufacturer would bother including high quality components. Every speaker is made to a price point and some manufacturers put that money into making the speaker enclosure attractive, while others put it into the drivers and crossovers. Which do you think performs better?
My holiday speakers: Buchardt A500SE. Active, wireless, go down to 25 Hz, easy to set up & adapt to room acoustics, plenty loud if needed and not too big to transport. Took them to multiple airbnbs and that showed me how much room acoustics differ from room to room.
If I’m spending more than $400 on a pair of speakers I want to know what’s inside of them and that I’m getting my moneys worth. If you don’t care about what’s inside the speaker, find a different hobby
Realistically, the price you set as standard, i think is a little bit low for us to expect better components, but if i go for more than $999 on a pair.. Well, i definitely care!
Moneys worth is if they look good in my environment, and I enjoy the sound. I could care less inside of the speaker that I don't see, sounds like this hobby might not be for you.
Just google for pics then. I think most people wouldn’t care what’s inside a $400 pair of speakers.
Just trust that the sound signature of the speaker is as intended by said company. I’ve had $2000 speakers and currently have $30k speakers and I was never intrigued as to what’s inside. I like the sound and the looks and that’s all that matters. I’ve seen my father go down the rabbit hole with tinkering with crossover parts. All a waste of money. Though I am talking about 30 years ago so maybe we have more knowledge of what works and what doesn’t now
Wow - this video really blew up. Danny responded as have others that are throwing their hat into the ring. I think that people are responding to this video too literally. I'm sure none of us would be happy with a crossover comprised of a paper clip and a buffalo nickle, but your point is valid that the real issue is if the sound is what you want to hear and you can go down a rabbit hole of "tweaking" you speakers (or anything in the audio chain) and then you subjectively decide if the tweaking has improved anything and if there was an ROI on it. The problem with this rabbit hole is that it goes deep fast. First it is new crossovers, then tweeter swaps, then better speaker cable, then speaker cable stands, then premium connectors, etc. Where does it end? To your point, buy something that sounds great to you; whether the tweeter is silk or diamond is irrelevant if it sounds right to you.
Andrew’s rants are so hilarious, the crossover one made me laugh so hard 😂
I'll be the first to invest in a startup that creates the first papercup crossover!
If you like to tinker, tinker! If you like DIY, do it! If you don't care about what's inside, but the sound alone, Don't care. Don't let anyone tell you how to hobby. You see, it isn't always the upgrade worth having. Like the Linton's or the 600m mk2. If I understood Andrew right here, you might be dragged into a change that really isn't as good as promised, and you're several hundred bucks short. However, you are free to do whatever you want in this hobby.
Cone materials matter : Crossovers matter : Number of drivers matter : just make sure you know how to make it all work together to achieve the sound your looking for.
*Diaphragms have a sound signature
*Crossover parts/ topology have a sound signature
*Driver count / enclosure / layout have a sound signature
Then it comes to the designer to get the sound voicing they are looking to accomplish by combining all the variables.
Thank you Andrew and Kristi for all of your hard work. I currently run a 2.1 setup with a Denon X3700 with Polk R600 and a SVS SB-3000. I enjoy my speakers and cannot replace them even if I wanted to. They are grandfathered in (WAF) to our space. If I replace the X3700 with the Marantz M1, would the R600 sound/perform significantly better? Our listening is 70/30 movies/music. Also, please try to review the Denon Home Amp. I, and I’m sure many of your viewers, would love to hear your comparison to the M1. Thank you for your insight.
If you use the X3700's room correction, there's a chance the M1 would sound very different and may lead you to believe it's not as good, or that your speakers sound "different" through it (the M1) versus the Denon. If you don't use Audyssey for room correction, the M1 might sound more controlled and authoritative. But you will give up room correction and that could be the difference maker if you're used to your speakers being better tailored to your room. Thanks for your support!
Guys, both Andrew and Danny are both correct. You can either judge a speaker on it's merits, or chose to upgrade it. Pretty simple.
100%
Andrew doesn’t care what’s inside, Danny does. It’s his livelihood. Audio Science will prove your speaker is good or not.
I can see both of your views. I'm not going to buy someone's upgrade kit for my Sony sscs5's, but if I thought that a pair of speakers sounded natural enough, but just needs a bit more refining and is in a good enough cabinet. Then upgrading crossover makes sense.
Modded Honda Civic or buy a new car?? People do both. Both are right.
A lot of high end speaker companies have what is called a mass loaded speaker. They use sand or concrete and put something heavy on the top. I'm a fan of that design and I make my speaker cabinets tops and bottoms 3" thick and multi layered. My whole cabinet is multi layered.75 MDF flexible industrial adhesive and I cover that with solid hardwood 75" thick. And they are like knocking on concrete . The best portable Bluetooth speaker I have ever heard is a full range 3 way with 2" 4" aluminum reference mids #2 1" titanium tweeters and a 5.5 subwoofer that has 9mm x max with a 8 " passive radiator on the back that goes down to 35 hz. , it's solid oak with the baffle wrapped in leather. I wanted a speaker I could take with me that was full range and sounds beautiful with separation and sound stage and I couldn't find anything that just wasn't a bass box so I designed and built it.
There is something wrong to think speaker designers are “gods” and their designs can not be improved ! Some people just like to improve any product they buy and get great enjoyment to make improvements. If you don’t have a technical mind and can’t figure out things you shouldn’t look down on people who can !
13 years ago I bought a Sony budget home theater system. The sound wasn't bad and the speakers just held it's own. Then, in 2022 I bought a NAD 701 receiver and connected the Sony SS MSP3000 speakers to it and oh my goodness the sound that came out of those speakers were so good.
If we're vacationing somewhere by car, we take the Beosound A5 or as my partner calls it, "the lunchbox." Really like that it connects to both Bluetooth and wifi and it's super easy to carry to the backyard.
We call our A5 the lunchbox, too!
People try to pick apart products they've never heard in an attempt to justify the money they spent on something else.
So this is kinda why i remember Andrew Jones became famous. This was during the bit of hubub in the early 2010s where rare earth minerals skyrocketed in price and Andrew had moved over to Pioneer Consumer and he made the best speaker he could with the affordable materials he had on hand. Ceramic magnets instead of neodymium and the like. The home theatre speakers ended up winning awards left and right. And that is when he kinda became the champion for high quality audio not needing to cost an arm and a leg.
The simple fact is, if you have the basic skills, you can EASILY take a budget speaker with good drivers and a solid cabinet, spend a LITTLE money on better electronics, and make it OUTPERFORM a much more expensive retail bought and assembled speaker, WITHOUT the massive retail MARK-UP for the parts and labor.
And this is NOT unique to audio. The same is true for building your own computer, doing your own home improvements, maintaining your own car...
So, whenever I hear someone suggest this is not a worthwhile endeavor, and instead you should just "buy better, buy right", I ALSO hear "A fool and his money..." following right behind in rebuttal.
Just starting the "look of the speaker" part, if looks weren't an issue, speakers would definitely sound better at a given price point. Everything is a tradeoff. If an aesthetic improvement costs $20 to implement, you've just increased the MSRP by $100. Which do you do for a certain price point? Make it look better or use better quality parts that aren't obvious in a picture or showroom? Which sells more speakers?
I always say speakers are very very subjective!! Cost doesnt mean a speaker will be good or not, you expect more from higher end and more costly speakers
I agree and disagree with you. Disagreement: parts do matter and driver differences is all marketing. Good example on the parts front are the Purifi midranges and woofers. These are high excursion, low distortion drivers as in higher excursion with lower distortion than previous drivers have been. These are expensive drivers and I think there are applications where these drivers can make a big difference (like 2-way bookshelf designs). Are they a game changer? No. Drivers like these can simplify the crossover by operating over a bigger frequency range or playing lower into the bass area than other similarly sized drivers. At the end of the day, these drivers are one more option a designer may have, depending on the price point he or she is designing to. I will grant you this, most speaker driver development has been restricted to refinements of well known driver topologies. I don’t see any particular one as necessarily better, more as options for a designer.
Where I totally agree is that no one should get caught up on parts, be they drivers or crossover parts. As an audiophile, your concern should be how well whatever is in your speaker has been implemented. And you judge that with your ears. I also agree that upgrades are questionable. You may be unhappy with your speakers, but you may not know why and certainly not how to fix it. The easiest path is either to just live with your speakers or buy a new pair more pleasing to your ears.
Instead of parts/materials, audiophiles should focus on basic design configurations, not in terms of sound, but in terms of whether it will work in your listening room. Open baffle speakers are a good example of this. They can sound great, but they need to be out in the room. If you don’t have the space or the SAF to get them out into the room, they won’t work for you because they simply will not sound good placed close to the wall. Rear ported speaker can offer enhanced bass performance due to the bass reinforcement from the back wall, but you need some placement flexibility to find the position where the bass works best in your room. The point is that some designs will work better in your room than others and you need to understand what those designs are. This is overlooked FAR too often.
Thank you for this episode, it was really needed for some to hear. One of my favorite speaker lines is the NHT super line original designed by Ken Kantor. Silk dome tweeter and a paper cone woofer. The whole line sounds great. All be it basic cabinet finish, still looks good. For the price I don't care what parts NHT used or what crossovers they use, I love the sound and performance. That's after owning speakers from Energy, SVS, definitive technology, and yamaha NS 690ii. I'm not a speaker designer and i dont care to pretend be one. Thank you guys for doing what you do!
This episode is a fantastic episode! The "What do you want from us" rhetorical remark from Kristi was suitable for most any situation, except maybe going through the drive-thru of a fast-food restaurant! And I whole-heartedly agree with Andrew about who cares what is inside the box! If you are questioning that then I advise you to build your own speakers and join a speaker -building website or group. I shall quit while I am still civil before my '70s upbringing comes into play...
Yes, epic. lol
Bought a pair of Dynaudio Special 40s last year...best speakers I've ever owned! I only listen to LPs, and these speakers are perfectly designed to reproduce that beautiful vinyl warmth. They're driven by a Yamaha AS-1200 amp...great show, by the way. Always enjoy your content.
Kevlar is a specifiic formulation of a generall classification of para aramid polymer fibers patented by Dupont . In other words aramid is a type of plastic.. Aramid fiber has an excellent tensile strength to mass ratio due to its long chained molecular structure .
I like ur brain space
I don't know why, but Kristi is always on point. I agree 100 percent with her comments on the ELAC speakers.
What makes a good box speaker? It's not a difficult formula. A stout, well braced non resonant box w/ rounded edges. Drivers w/ smooth responses that roll off gently and have little stored energy. Tweeters closely spaced to mid woof to maintain vertical phase alignment. Crossover w/ quality poly caps and air coil inductors and quality resisters designed to blend drivers properly and maintain phase. And no damn ferrous metal anywhere in the signal chain. Paint it w/ truck be liner and sell affordably or wrap in exotic veneer and sell for serious money. but it will sound good.
One of the most enjoyable audiophile episodes I’ve seen till now on YT. As an ELAC debut 6.2 floorstanders, my entire setup (and the room playing a major part) sounds better than most rooms I’ve heard at audio shows.
The tweaked discussion resonated with me because it’s something I like to do.
But not to brand new speakers. It’s fun to tweak used budget speakers that you can find on Marketplace for pennys on the dollar. Some mad men on the internet swapped out a tweeter and rebuilt a crossover and then open sources the whole entire thing. Like conversion of the Pioneer BS22 to the Philharmonic Audio Affordable Accuracy Monitor. When you’ve bought the speakers for $20-$40 what’s about $60-$70 in parts? When you’re only in it for sub $150, are you really going to find something new at that price point to best what you’ve modified? Maybe. Maybe not. Either way, it’s not a lot of money at risk.
But it is all relative.
for travel, Cambridge Sound (a Henry Kloss company) had a suitcase with L & R satellites, a woofer built into the suitcase (which became its cabinet) with space for a small cassette deck or portable CD player. it was affordable and excellent.
I do think you have that right, Andrew. 500 to 1200, across a number audio products. And probably because that price tier is very competetive, just a bump above entry level and at a place - particularly, where consumers do have expectations about what their money should get them...realistically or not. I actually it's a good place to start.
Andrew,
Your comments about Elac speakers, and budget speaker construction made me smile from ear-to-ear!
I had a pair of ENERGY 3 speakers (mid-80s vintage) that simply out performed MANY of my friend's more "bespoke" bookshelf speakers (above 80 hz). Their components lasted about 25 years before having issues. A great (!) investment of mere $250/pair.
Thanks for your channel and both of your perspectives.
LOL, good video Andrew/Kristi. With old ears & damaged hearing, my audio perceptions of different DACs, amps, speakers, hi-rez music, etc are very limited, let alone being able to detect an audio improvement of a more expensive capacitor or a resistor over cheaper brands. But I do subscribe to a popular DIY channel for the entertainment and educational elements. On the other hand, HT dialog clarity is very important to me and I will spend $ in search of improved vocals.
There is room for everyone. Appreciate you watching.
Bazooka Gum Wrapper! (mic drop).... Love it!
Here's my Friday thought, buy the speaker with the sound you like and be happy.
He's a genius.☝
I can see both sides here - you get what you pay for, and some speakers are incredible value for the money. But not all speakers are designed well or have the same performance to cost ratio at a particular price point. I've had many speaker/amp/preamp/integrated/source combinations over the years, and have had some disappointments. I prefer to build my own, from kit (CSS, GR research, Curt Campbell), knowing what I am getting for the money, and putting in the sweat equity to avoid that disappointment.
Just build an open baffle no inside parts 😊
Thanks!
Thank you for your generosity and support!
Andrew Jones is known by me because Pioneer, Elac, and now MoFi tell the public that he designed them. Why did they do that? I don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if he made doing so a requisite for taking the job. Also, I would love to hear Jones' opinion about crossover and speaker materials mattering and his take on making speakers to a price point.
Just wanted to say..... I really appreciate that you put up images for us to see. Adds to my enjoyment seeing the visual that goes with the name. Thank You 😁🙏
When Polk released there Turbine woofer it was hailed as a break through!! Only JVC made the same type woofer 50 years ago, if audio has moved forward, speakers are still on the starting line ..
I don't think anything is wrong with upgrading X-overs to improve speakers especially if you really like them. GR Research should be jumping in on this video being they do lots of improvement upgrades to owners loved speakers and there are many who love the improvements. I agree somewhat with Andrew that if one loves the sound of the stock speakers and they have crap for electronics then don't mess with it. But sometimes selling and upgrading to higher cost new speakers do not always provide much more of an improvement. I had a listening opportunity listening to over $100 rig consisting of Borresen loud speakers driven by Aavik front end. Well they did sound very good but other than aesthetics no freaking way would I pay for a system like that for that kind of money even if I had the budget in that range! Bear in mind this was in a brick and mortar high end store thus maybe in the right room the sound could be more appreciated. On another listening opportunity I listen to a 20 year old pair of Polk towers driven by a refurbished 1970 Yamaha 2 channel receiver and loved them! The owner was all about speaker placement and room treatments so I think that is the key.
Thing is, are crossover composts the best place to upgrade.
I know what is in my speakers because I built and designed and built them and I like them to look like a piece of furniture. I think Andrew Jones is well known because he does interviews and most designers are interverts. My opinion on cones is that I like a paper blend. I paper sounds natural and the blends are lighter and faster. Aluminum and other compounds ring more when they break up. I don't like polypropylene, I think it sounds like Tupperware.
Materials used in speakers definitely have a sound signature of their own. Now I will have to say that paper still has a following most notably look at the Wilson audio speakers and also Steynem speakers, and they are totally state of the art and preferable by good amount of homeowners and also reviewers that have them in their homes that has to be saying something. as a matter of fact, my speakers are the Wilson audio MAXX V ‘s now I’ll have to stay there many speakers out there that they I could easily live with that use of course different materials. I love Planars and electoral statics. Everything is a balancing act and of course personal preferences.
People like Andrew Jones and Peter Comeau are 'famous', not only because they are good designers, but also because they are charismatic representatives for their brand.
That is very true, and that can make a difference. Appreciate you watching!
There is a fairly big diy speaker community so often people are looking for a good starting place that they can upgrade as they can afford to
Loved the 'paper cup crossover' rant. So true.
Regarding inefficient budget speakers, I would add that typically budget speakers are smaller bookshelf type speakers, in part to save on cabinet costs. More difficult to get outstanding efficiency from a small two-way, regardless of the price point.
Thanks! Mike at Magic here asking for ur help, I currently have a Wilsenton R8 stereo tube amp that I LOVE, and really want to incorporate that into my surround sound system by using preouts on my receiver, the question is, what receiver do u recommend? I initially was going to go with the Marantz cinema 50 as it would do everything I need it to do and looks gorgeous and can therefore stay on top of the cabinet with the wilsenton, but adding on Dirac takes an already fairly expensive reciever and makes it almost too much for me. the wilsenton only has 35 watts, but their tube watts which always seem to be way louder powering the Klipsch RP8-ll tower speakers with a JL Audio dominion 8inch sub rounding out the stereo components. For the surround speakers it's Klipsch Reference Center, rear, surround and most likely 1 or 2 sets of Kilpsch in ceiling speakers Atmos speakers. Is the Cinema 50 plus Dirac my best bet or would I get similar enough results with the Onkyo 50, only having to buy the bass control, and put it in the cabinet as opposed to on the cabinet? Or is there something else u recommend entirely? Other than the Stereo complication everything else is pretty simple, 1 Arc HDMI to the big screen, 1 PS4 to the Receiver all streaming handled by Apple TV 4K and 1 analog connection direct to the Stereo for heavy music listening or just streamed via Apple thru Receiver for more casual listening, really appreciate all ur reviews and reading this super long message.
The Cinema 50 is a great AVR, no doubt, but I understand, paying $2500 plus upwards of an additional $500-$700 for DIRAC is asking a lot. The RZ50 from Onkyo is an absolute workhorse and a great AVR that is very comparable to the Marantz (maybe not as sexy looking, but performance-wise, up there). That said, the RZ50 uses Onkyo's older amplifier architecture, whereas the new RZ70 does not and IS better than the 50. However, the RZ70 costs more than the Cinema 50 but not as much as the Cinema 50 with DIRAC. But here's the good news. The RZ70 is going to get a baby brother here soon, the RZ30. The RZ30 will retail for, I think, less than $1500 new and should go on sale or start shipping soon. The RZ70 is better, but you may be just fine with the 30. We're supposedly getting one sent to us soon, but I don't know when our review will hit the channel, but if you can wait, that review will happen. If you don't want to wait, based on what I know of the RZ50 and RZ70, I'm going to take a chance and say the RZ30 will be pretty good too. Best part is, all the Onkyo AVRs have DIRAC already, you would have to pay for the subwoofer add-on, but maybe you can get by without it 🤷♂️ Also, if you shop Pioneer Elite or Integra you will find variants of the Onkyo line there and maybe some deals.
I care about what’s inside of a speaker. You can spend 5-10 grand on speakers and have poor cheap crossover parts inside. I prefer some quality. I can hear a difference in parts and cables.
If you care about quality parts and you prefer quality, why would you buy speakers built like that in the first place? So if you can hear the difference in cables can you prove that in a double blinds test reliably and consistently over time? Because you need to, to be able to claim you actually hear the differences in cables. I also hope you kept copious and well organized notes so you can write a paper to be reviewed by peers so they can try and repeat your abilities with someone else. Since, as I'm sure you will know, no human, as of this date, has ever, reliably and consistently detected differences in cables. Congratulations! You are a super-human. OR you just have what we all have, confirmation bias. Good luck.
Great episode & I agree 100% about people just wanting to pick apart a product out of context. On that note... It seems that a lot of people are misinformed about these speakers & where they fit into the overall Elac speaker range. During the video when Kristi was talking about past Elac speakers you reviewed, the photo you showed was the Debut Reference 2.0 which is one tier above & $300 more the new entry Debut 3.0. It seems that a lot of people think these are the only speaker Elac makes. They have 4 speaker lines in their "Home" or budget range & 6 speaker lines in their "Premium" range. The home range retail prices top out @ $1199 for a pair of bookshelf's & $1199 each for the floorstand. The premium range tops out @ $3499 for the pair of bookshelf's & $42,999.00 for the Concentro floorstand......... Context really matters!!
Andrew Jones is known for maximizing what a design can do, no matter what the budget for development of a speaker is. When it comes to electronics Schiit heads in a similar direction.
I know it's not much of a field given spacing, but the Level is technically capable of playing in stereo. So that saves a little space in this speculative suitcase.
I've had some fun in the speaker rebuilding arena. It is its own hobby, but it's not a cost-effective hobby. However, modding is an accessible hobby, where so much tech in the electronics arena requires considerable skill. Also, most of the changes to a speaker are reversible. It's best to play with older speakers, where who cares, but modding a new speaker is definitely a head scratcher.
Many cannot build a nice cabinet, but can upgrade parts or slopes in crossovers, add bracing, better insulation, add a damping layer, reglue boxes (yes, some companies do this poorly), and it makes sense to start with a modern speaker with fresh drivers…
I have fixed a lot of old speakers and also completely rebuilt two pair with new drivers, x-overs, and all - the rebuild can be fantastic…
Many of the recent modern retro style speakers prove that people want classic design and current drivers and parts
OMG, you and Danny at GR Research would not see eye to eye with each other on crossover theories!!😂
I do agree with Andrew’s analogy on cars compared to speakers…
@@ganck1147
I get it and can’t argue if it sounds good who cares about what kind of parts are used in the crossover. But you know that kind of talk is blasphemy among audiophiles!😂
I have to go part way and agree with Danny on this one. Part way in that you don't need to spend $250-$500 on upgrades to hear the improvements. A $50 investment in better parts for a 2 way speaker like this can help a lot! Why don't the company's just do it and sell them for $75 more and really impress the hell out of everyone? Oh that's right, nobody would upgrade to the $1,200 speakers.
@@johnloupis9344
Personally I’d rather see the manufacturers invest the money in making the cabinets more inert versus upgrading crossover components.
I definitely hear cabinet issues long before capacitor type!
@@johnloupis9344
Lol, ya pretty much!
Well, since you asked “what do you want from us“, here’s my question. The interior architecture of the new Onkyo RZ 70 is completely different in appearance from the RZ 50. I’m wondering if you have any knowledge if this was designed by a new group of peopleto fight the overheating and HDMI issues that Onkyos have had for a while? I’ve been hoping for better quality and higher dependability for a while and I’m wondering if this is the first step? Thanks!
The RZ70 was designed by a new team at Klipsch/Onkyo and is an all-new design for Onkyo, whereas the RZ50 had some carry-over from the previous teams or generations.
@@andrewrobinsonreviewsThe RZ30 from the new regime as well ?
@@andrewrobinsonreviews Thanks Andrew! Have you heard any feedback or gotten any information about whether the new design is more dependable, more effective, or generally better to make it worth the nearly 3K msrp?
@@fonkenful I believe so, yes.
I love my bone stock Forte Fours. I'm sure there is a kit provider who would pick them apart, but I like them.
Not to state the obvious, but Andrew Jones is the rare engineer who is also a natural born salesman. That's the difference. He goes out and sells whatever he designs. He likes taking to people and he likes talking about his metier. Not your typical engineer. ;)
Doesn’t really seem like an engineer
@@sweeler3216 Exactly my point.
The best part of Friday's! Thank you for my lunch break viewing pleasure!
So glad you could join us!
Paul Klipsch was also a famous designer, there is also Dave Wilson and, Andy Payor and quite a few others.
Famous to those of us who nerd out on this stuff but not to most listeners or even average knowledge reviewers.
The brofest with Andrew Jones comes down to one word… PRESENTATION. Andrew Jones gives the best presentations by far of any other audio designer. If you’ve never been to one of his presentations then do yourself a favor. Then you’ll understand. By the way, he’s a twin. Most people don’t know that about him.
LOL on the crossover parts, but here's the kicker they matter... Try it yourself, I have. A sand cast resistor on a tweeter is an easy part to change out. The irony is it makes a huge sonic difference. Had a pair of bookshelf polk speakers back in the day and the crossover was the size of the binding post. Never understood why it sounded horrid till I saw that. Of course it was probably the mix of parts and probably didn't measure well either. Still I have a high end diy speaker and didn't think it mattered either till I change a resistor on the tweeter. Just one resistor opened it up sonically in a way I'll never forget. So I moved on and replaced some capacitors on the woofer. Here is the thing I didn't hear a change there and went from clarity caps to mundorfs (expensive change). It didn't make much if any difference to me. So it depends on the network and what is changed.
The reality is that everyone builds to a price point. No one has great parts at an amazing price. It just doesn't happen. I have a set of 15k speakers that still have sand cast resistors. They also have steel core inductors as well which hold a magnetic charge. I'm not saying boutique parts make all the difference in the world, but they do matter. The issue is you get to the point of diminishing returns very quick. Maybe one of these days I'll rebuild my bookshelf speaker with junk crossovers and put it up so people can hear the difference.
While parts and overall construction matters, the point is that when the sound is great or what someone desires, then what does it actually matter? If you change parts in your speakers I hope you like them more but that difference doesn't equal better for all. The same applies to cables and measurements
@@Powerpickle68 sort of what I was saying by the law of diminishing returns. It's not that they don't make a difference though because they do.
The reason is definitely that he has built low cost, high cost and middle cost speakers that performed well. He also hustles at all the trade shows, and talks to people, and does have good promotion. If he wasn’t good, and prolific, one would know him
Sandy Gross can't be overlooked as a designer. Polk, Def Tech and Goldenear. 😘
Totally agree! Sandy is a legend.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews Speaking of Goldenear, I don't recall seeing you review one of their products yet. I have always been intrigued by them. Do you have any contacts with Goldenear regarding review product? I have been eyeballing the ForceField 30 subs for future upgrades when I recover from my recent Paradigm and Emotiva upgrade.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews Would it be possible to see a Goldenear speaker review in the future?
The waveguide on the tweeter for the Elac 3.0s is not as big and deep as the Arendals but I think that type of waveguide is something we will see more of from speaker designers. It just gives so much better off axis performance. I'm a bit turned off by the vertical jewelry on the Elac tweeter waveguide but if Kristi likes it, I love it lol
Andrew, did ever came across Pearl Acoustics Sibelius speakers? Maybe u are able to review them in the future… Harley Lovegrove seems to be a nice guy and will send you a pair 😉
Another great episode!! Hey everyone!
Hello!
@@KristiWright Hey Kristi!! How is everything? MIssed you in the comments! I am over the moon this week!
@@txerapng Life is good! Speaking of the moon, did you see the harvest moon / partial eclipse on Tuesday? I've never seen the moon look so bright and clear.
Glad you're well!!
@@KristiWright I haven't seen the moon this week, but some great things have happened to me, that I have not still processed completely, i am really excited. Heard the TV is up in the backyard, its getting closer to finished isn't it?
@@txerapng That's awesome!!
Yes, the TV is up. We have some outdoor furniture arriving today. I think the pool is officially done. All that's left is a polish of the tiles to clean them up. The team is doing a second coat of concrete on the privacy wall, so we don't see the cinder blocks. Up next: painting the wall, landscaping and more outdoor furnishings. There's also plans for outdoor audio but it may be a while before that happens.
Welcome back Kristi
Thank you!
Danke!
Thank you so much for all your support!
Based on the title, I know exactly what's inside my speakers. I built two pairs based on the Parts-Express house brand, Dayton Audio. Anyone else heard of D.B. Keele, a speaker designer from way back? My Electro Voice horns were designed by him.
Great video! I really agree with your train of thought in "KEEPING S#!T IN PERSPECTIVE" and "ARE HIFI MANUFACTURERS OUT TO RIP YOU OFF?", I think that people went from a _cork sniffing_ mentality to a _cork snorting_ addiction
People are coming for the look of these? Damn, to me they look sleek and very nice to be honest, kind of a mesh between old school design and this futuristic hifi look we are getting more and more nowadays.
Good video and head to head comparisons……what is your take on the Kanto YU 5.25 speaker vs this ELAC?
The Kanto speakers are fantastic. We didn't listen to them side by side, so I can't say with 100% certainty whether the YUs will perform as well.
That’s been a ‘thing’ with Andrew Jones speakers. The irony of the Pioneer run (which I still own) is they are super budget speakers but the bookshelves are borderline 4 ohm nominal and the entire range have somewhat middling sensitivity. They really need a powerful amp and that’s kind of an oxymoron as this is a budget product that you would expect to be powered by a budget (low cost) amp.
This was a great and fun video! Based on The review and the follow-up, I am probably going to purchase a pair of these! By the way, Andrew, my next speaker after the Elacs, will be a speaker with a crossover made of paper cups! 😅
How about Dennis Murphy now building Philharmonic speakers?
It isn't always "Of course they gonna use the cheapest parts!" Buchardt has used fancy parts for their crossover of the S400 MKII. Andrew Jones uses the cheap yellow and white components for his MoFi speakers.
Slightly off the price point, but.. Which would you choose: MartinLogan vs. Magnepan + a sub, and why is it ML? ^^
Andrew & Kristi you are one of those UA-camrs that make me look forward to next ”episode” Awesome! 👍🏼 I would be super duper happy if you could answer this question. I have a high end dedicated home theater. But for my budget tv/2ch system. Which one would YOU choose, Elac Debut 3.0 B6.3 or Klipsch RP-600m ii? Ignore any price difference. I like a dynamic sound with clear dialog. But as i said, which one would you choose? Happy weekend./From Sweden🇸🇪😊
The more dynamic and contrasty of the two speakers, that is, the sensation of greater bass with perhaps "higher" highs is going to be the Klipsch. Will it be more intelligible, that I can't say for certain. The better all-round speaker that is likely to be more agreeable or neutral, that's the ELAC all the way.
I do have a crush on AJ. However, I don't like guys, but I've had 2 of his designs. Seriously speaking, he's a nice guy who answers when you have a question. For real.
always remember that there are great deals on second hand kit. don't need to buy new
Please, please take up GR research offer and go and visit him and listen to his equipment, let's find out if he is full of bullshit or a genius?
Great episode:) I got wharfedale diamond 230 floor standing. Spend £300 on sale in UK brand new. And love them. They sound so but so nice.
Youre not gonna get all the efficiency out of those elacs with a wimm amp unless you mono block somehow. I tried the elac unifi ub52 2.0s with a yahama as801 and it didnt work for me.
I have the Carina's and the RZ50 won't run them. They're quite a bit harder to drive than the debut's. It's fine for movies, but stereo listening forget it. I invested in the OSD Nero HTA7200 and 🤌 Magnefiique!
For the record, I do like my Unifi Reference speakers; and yes, they are crammed against the wall. That said, I’m using them with an AV receiver. Their lack of personality is a great match for all the DSP modes Yamaha can throw. Yes, I do use the AVR’s pre-outs for a separate amp for them.
Suitcase question is easy for me, a pair of Morel Biggie Powered Bluetooth speakers with battery power that would be super useful on an island. These speakers sound fantastic from their 7"×7"×4.5" profile. Best of all, a pair is only $600.
Let me preface this by saying, I love you guys and I'm just playing devils advocate when I say this... When you say "who cares" what the crossover parts are, understand that is an important factor for some people. Some people don't mind spending extra for quality parts even if the return on sound is negligable/incremental. I think this much like how you guys enjoy expensive/quality furniture and probably don't mind spending thousands on say a stone/concrete media console, when a Ikea piece would hold up your equipment just as well. FYI, Id spend the thousands on the nicer piece too, if I had the means :)
I think the point of the "who cares" comment is that these are the base or entry line of passive speaker Elac makes in their "Home" or budget speaker range. @ $450 / pair you're going to spend the same or close to it on the replacement premium parts, plus your time to replace them, & then hope you don't screw something up along the way..... Just move up the the DB Reference or Unifi or Unifi Reference. If those aren't good enough then move up their "Premium" speakers like the Corina, Solano 2.0, Vela 2.0 or Concentro, that top out @ $43K for the floorstand speaker.
@@robinsonmac You understood my point regarding the ELAC Debut 3.0 and its price point. Most speakers getting modded aren't of the thousand-dollar or more variety; it's the budget stuff. For example, a pair of Klipsch 600M MKIIs retail for $649/pair, and a popular crossover kit that "fixes" their response sells for $369, which you have to void your warranty and install yourself. Regardless, the 600M MKIIs are "worth" $649, yet some enthusiasts are now spending $1018 on the same speakers. With a budget of $1,000 for a pair of speakers, one could likely look for a better speaker with a response that is more to their liking or neutral and does not need to be modified.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews Thanks for the response. I think maybe people are trying or looking to get the sound of a higher priced speaker for a perceived bargain by upgrading? Like thinking why buy speaker "****" for $1200 when I can buy the Debut 3.0 for $450 upgrade the crossover for $375 & I saved $375. Which in their mind is the ultimate perceived speaker value....... Also, thanks for the Monitor Audio Bronze 100 comparison! The Urban Grey color of the 100's are $450 right now.
@@robinsonmac Thats a valid point.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews What I also think could be happening is people who had $649 and got 600Ms initially, a year or two later get upgrade-itis and rather than having to spend $1100 (on top of the $649 they spent a couple years back) for a slightly better offering, look at upgrading for $369 as a more financially responsible way to get improved sound out of what you already have and scratch the upgrade itch. Sometimes people don't have the money to get exactly what they want at that moment, so they buy the best they can afford and later down the road, when they have a few extra bucks, they want to improve their sound without breaking the bank. Having options is always a good thing, and if boutique companies want to give hi-fi enthusiast more options to get better sound, I say "why not?!"