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I was hopeful at the start of this video then very soon disappointed lol....maybe a higher end receiver would work for offering the Sonus Faber Lumina II, Sonetto I or Sonetto II sufficient power? Do you have a recommendation for a suitable receiver up to maybe $1,500 USD i'm never sure with Australian hifi prices but $4,000 AUD max? Audio quality is a very high priority for me, voice intelligibility is huge priority, also Dolby Vision is a must for me. I'm considering adding a SVS 3000 Micro Sub to the bookshelf speakers, I'm wanting to use them for a room thats 4m by 3.5m. Its bedroom with bed, cabinets, fridge, microwave, thick carpet, plasterboard walls with one 90/180cm horizontal double glazed window? I'm stuck in bed so my entertainment is Very much a priority and well worth saving for a long time so I can purchase quality Audio Visual gear. Also, do you have a guide to setting up the best possible sound through a PC? Most of my entertainment is via my pc.
Hey Andrew, the RZ50 you mentioned has a pricepoint of almost double of the 8470, at least in Germany. So the compairson is a leatle weak. 1500€ is a lot of money and i had offers of the NAD C399 for just that. I just bought the 8470 for 699€ new+unused, which is a great deal and i think you get a lot for the money. The featurelist is packed and at the moment it's a no brainer if you don't want an A/B.
Did you switch the receiver to 4 ohms in the settings? If so that could be why you were underwhelmed with the sound. Even if your speakers are 4ohms the receiver will automatically adjust to what’s needed by the speakers. Switching it to 4 ohms will basically give you about 40 watts of power with a way higher distortion level.
@@Zimmy_1981 Thanks, simple and sounds great with an amazing sound-stage. All streaming through TV, digital connect to AV receiver (pre HDMI) with turn table and Blu-ray connected. Not to say I don't lust after some of Mr. Robinson's goodies, but it functions well for me.
Something similar here, im using older jbls with Yamaha receiver and never needed dedicated stereo like mine main. Using tube amp for stereo in my Office.
The more I learn about this audiophile hobby, the more I realize how little I know. Everyday there is a different product, video, comment that teaches me and confuses me at the same time. All that said, I appreciate all the learning I get from this channel as I find it to be among the most informative for the audiophile industry.
I had a couple of Onkyo stereo receivers that I was happy with for a short time: the first one broke down at age 4 and the second one at age 3. I decided to change brands, buy an integrated Rotel basics that 12 years later is still working. It was a drastic change in durability and sound quality. Good video Andrew.
I built my 5.4.1 system around the rz50 almost 18 months ago and still don't regret it for a minute. At current prices it still seems like a no-brainer to me. Thanks for another solid review, AR.
Fan cooling and AVR is a great way to improve its sustainable power output. Here’s how you can tell how well it works. Turn on your receiver cold and play some music nice and loud and pay attention to how great it sounds when it’s cool. Many receivers will start to fall apart after about 5 minutes of playing music loud. Fan cooling will give you that same performance you get in the first 1-2 minutes as long as you want. Thermal management of AVRs is generally not great.
The extra channels of an AVR aren't completely wasted when running in stereo. Sure, there's rear plugs, circuitry and some processing capability not being used, but on most AVRs, you do get to utilise those channels' power. To me, using the surround / centre power to get the most out of two channels actually makes AVRs pretty good value per watt. They can just do more, and unless you're really after a ten-tenths hi-fi experience PLUS have the space to dedicate a separate system for music, a good AVR works for me. Just flick it to 2-channel for music.
I bought an Onkyo TX-NR686 7.2 receiver a couple of years ago. Although I have full range rear channel speakers also connected along with two subwoofers, I often run it in two-channel stereo mode. It has a built in MM phono preamplifier and I find it quite good. Overall, it's a great performer even compared to some of my early silver faced Marantz equipment. Onkyo has identified with a market that they already serve well with their surround sound receivers. It's very easy to not connect and use surround speakers.
I have had my TX-NR686 for about 8 years. Rock solid and good enough. Needed the Phono Input also. That made it an easy decision. The 2nd zone is used everyday. 😊
I love your channel and the reviews (from both of you). Updating my knowledge base after being out of the game for a while. Your presentation as well as the more educated comments from your subscribers really has helped me narrow down my path toward a great HT set up with the limitations of only going in-ceiling. Now, I just need a new AVR/Amp/Sub/TV and some Atmos speakers and I'll be all set....
I ended up going with the Sony az5000es on sale and a pair of Klipsch RP-600M II also on sale With cables all for under $2,500. I am Super happy with the setup! I really did need the AVR-like setup to run audio from my Epson LS11000 projector because I only had 2 HDMI inputs! Needless to say I’m going to build on this system down the road utilizing more channels that the AVR provide, adding subs, and living life satisfied with my purchase
I think I've stated this before, but my 2 channel set up in the bedroom is a yamaha rx-v1800 (2008ish). I took my old Boston vr3 towers and put my old jbl e-20's on top of them and turned on bi-amping. Toe'd in the jbl's a bit. For music it sounds so much better then the 5.2.4 klipsch rz50 set up in the basement. No need for a sub. These days you can find the older yamaha's pretty cheap. I have a Boston vrc center on it as well for movies, but rarely put it in that mode. Lower volume sounds magical in comparison.
As a lifelong Onkyo supporter, I appreciate and value your insight and feedback. The RZ 50 is the receiver I’m working towards and your review of that model helped to confirm that decision.
I just got the rz50 few weeks ago. Went on sale for 999. Back up to regular price now. I remember your review for that one couple years ago and pulled the trigger finally. Did the Dirac live set up and it sounds fantastic. Even the infamous Blazing Saddles camp fire fart scene sounded “3D”😂. Thanks for the reviews kind sir.
Here’s my question: why aren’t all integrated amplifiers turn into a stereo receiver? I feel like that would a perfect thing: you get incredible sound quality and proper power, while getting a crazy level of features. I used my Rotel in ever setting imaginable while I had it, and all it was missing for me was streaming directly off of it, HDMI connections for my devices and decent app to control it with. I feel like both those categories should just merge into one device and that’s it. It gives you both of all those worlds. Great review and video. Wonder what were the last minute changes now 😇😏 Hope everyone is having an awesome Sunday!
I hear ya; it seems like it might be easier for some brands to start with their AVR architecture, then remove channels and beef up just the power amp section, resulting in what could be the "perfect" stereo receiver or integrated.
I have the Denon DRA-900H stereo receiver which has plenty of features for a stereo hybrid. This receiver never seems to be mentioned in comparisons. Would like to know your thoughts on the Denon. I have Klipsch RP600II Speakers and a Klipsch 101 sw and sounds great!
I’m still here watching. At 799 I’d save my money and get the RZ50 on sale for two hundred dollars more. My RZ 50 powers my Focal surround beautifully and I can change it to run two channels . I have a big SVS twin port sub for movies but I plug the ports and I use it as 2 channels with a sub . Love Diana Krall on this set up . Again thank you Kristi and Andrew . I just keep ranting about how good the things you guys brought to me because they are just so good ❤👍
I replaced Yamaha RX-A830 (7.2 AV) with a Denon DRA-900H (Network Receiver) earlier this year and have been a happy camper since. It's paired it with KEF Q350 bookshelf and Yamaha Yamaha NS-IC800 - In-Ceiling Speakers
I am - well, WAS, based on the operational shortcomings of their modern AVRs - a rabid Onkyo fan, still running a 100 WPC TX-8555 stereo receiver in our separate two channel system (we were running a TX-SR605 in the downstairs home theater for decades until we recently replaced it with a Denon AVR-X2800...a story for another time), and this thing has been solid as a brick. Really well built with a thick anodized faceplate, a heavy and smooth machined volume knob and a sound that comes off like a good integrated that just happens to have a tuner built in. I almost forgot about the GOLD PLATED RCA connectors, something not seen on products at these prices anymore..... Since this new Onk two channel unit arrived on the scene, I've been keeping an eye on it, and said it would be what we'd replace the 8555 with if it ever dies. Just reading the comments in here, I'm concerned..... What's weird is that they lumped together a "TV" and "Tape" input.....😮
I just replaced my 20 yo Cambridge Audio Azur 540R AVR with the Onkyo TX-RZ50 based on your praise over the years. I'm happy to report that you didn't steer me wrong. I love the RZ50! Most of my listening is music (vinyl, flac), but I also do watch a fair bit of movies and tv shows and all of it sounds amazing. The phono preamp is adequate and the bass management brought the system alive compared to my old receiver. Everything just feels like it was kicked up a notch. Having found it for $950 on Ebay, it's the best deal around I think.
Based on your previous reviews, I’m certain the integra equivalent model will sound the same as this one (it has a few extra connections). I wonder if the pioneer model, not yet released, would sound and perform better considering how unimpressed you were of the pioneer vsx-lx805 vs the onkyo rz-70. As always thanks for your help in giving all of us, listening and watching your channel, solid information which will lead us to purchasing products best suiting our needs
Thanks for the review. Guessing Kristie is gonna say the M1 is the Longhorns compared to this Michigan Onkyo (😢😰). Bummer for Onkyo, but I just found an Onkyo RZ50 for $900 that I added to my home theater set up and was pleasantly surprised at how nice it sounds driving SVS Ultra Bookshelves/surrounds in 7.1.2 setup. In stereo it sounded pretty darn good actually. Sure not as good as my 2 channel music setup but really for someone that would want to run double duty (movies/music) the RZ50 leaves nothing to be desired really. Probably a better buy for 95% of the population.
When I first got into audio all my gear apart from speakers was ONKYO!! I still have a soft spot for this brand...really decent performance at a super affordable price..... what's not to like!!!?
@andrewrobinsonreviews but people have concerns about Onkyo's customer service and product reliability. Everyone I know suggested to get Marantz over Denon and Onkyo.
Being a long in the tooth greybeard, I can certainly remember seeing their fabulous separates and receivers from the mid to later ‘80s at my favorite hi-fi shop, but for whatever reason never owned one of their pieces in my journey down the audio rabbit hole until only about 5 years ago when surround sound FOMO got its hooks in me again. After a couple of rather meh Denon models, the TX NR818 was a joy, and my current RZ740 even more so for the Atmos functionality. One thing that really pissed me off while researching for the switch from the Denon was the FUD around the Onkyo name at the time from the two remaining long lived brick and mortar shops; “we wouldn’t recommend it, they’re going out business, are being bought out, etc.” Geeze, if we wanna get that granular, how often have the P,M and D brands - to name only a few- changed hands over the last several decades, and how deleteriously has that affected their product quality and fan base? Rant off.
So.... for those of us that are let's say music first people, but who have a tv in the same room, what's the 3.1 channel solution that lets us use 2.1 for music and bring in the 3rd (centre) channel for dialogue only when watching TV. Is there such a thing as a 'music first' 2.1 / 3.1 receiver / all in one? right now i have a classic stereo 2 channel amp and speakers combo which is also running a powered sub from a pre out. its great for music but whilst it has e arc, it's useless for movie / tv watching because of the dialogue intelligibility as you so nicely put it. so i also have a soundbar, with its own sub. and a cluttered living room. are there any solutions out there you would recommend?
Interesting review. I would’ve been more curious to see how your Cornwall IV’s sound with this Onkyo product that would’ve had a chance for success. I’m guessing that we all assumed something like this would never work with the Titans so I was not very surprised. Still hoping to see how the Sony ES 3000, 5000, 7000 compare to each other. That said, I grabbed an Onkyo RZ 70 when it was on sale last month(1999) and I’ve been very happy so far with my Heresy IV LCR setup (your recommendation). Keep up the good work!
I have a full 5.4.4 Atmos system and for Daily listening to conserve power i use my Onkyo A9130 paired with a Definitive Technology Dn12 and a pair of Jamo C803 and they absolutely rock the house when needed!
I have an onkyo Pro Logic stero receiver from 1993 or so, Big Black, weighs at least 25Lbs Only thing I had to do to it is replace the main binding posts with modern ones and replace the speaker output relay. Sounds great on everything.
Good info again. I too am a long time Onkyo fan. A $800 2.1 channel stereo amp without room correction seems like a swing and a miss. Onyko's W.R.A.T. power system used to give their budget receivers some good umph too.
Check out the Denon DRA 900H. It does not get a lot of press but its a great unit. I have it and the Marantz S70 setup in my showroom. Clients often prefer the Denon for its lower price. It sounds good! Glad you did this review on the Onkyo. Ill be sticking with the Denon Marantz Yamaha units for stereo receivers.
@@dairatars They like the power of the Denon. And the Denon does everything the Marantz does. Build quality is slightly better on the Marantz. Most people will take the Denon regardless of price.
I thought so too. A good 100+WPC receiver. I coupled this with a pair of Polk es60 and hts10. I am loving the sound. Kept my speaker/sub levels at 0db and sub volume know at 12o clock. Just love those old tone controls. Good punchy bass and clear sound from the class A/B amp
Well done Andrew ! I have the TX-8170 which i purchased hoping it would help my wife navigate inputs easier than my old system by labeling inputs etc.etc. I find the sound was exactly as you found it to be, dull. Have it paired with an older set of efficient Cerwin Vega E-712 which should have been an easy load for the 8170. Bought a Reciever AB switching unit and reinstalled my old Hafler preamp and Adcom amp. Totally night and day difference. I use the Onkyo for tv and dvd duty only now, lol. The Onkyo has no life at low volume and as you found higher volume gets congested. Thanks for reaffirming that my old hearing is still ok !
A fine man to listen to. D'ya know, his most favourable starter turntable is the AT-LP60X. Great choice, I know because I have that turntable and I made a couple of nice little upgrades to it that I think Andy would've liked.
Bullseye! There is much to be learned from these lower fi/budget offerings. Loved this review. You did such a good job on the compare/contrast issues of this receiver. I was surprised by how much content was available to be generated out of delving into the details here. Thanks.
Hi Andrew, I mentioned earlier, the Denon DRA900H receiver, in another video on your channel. Now that I've seen this review, I'd like to ask if you could consider comparing this Onkyo to that Denon, since they are both AV receivers, with very identical features and with a very equal price as well. Thanks.
The thing I appreciate is any manufacturer, as in this case, that includes a FM radio. It’s getting tough to find one and serious tuners are only available used now.
Magnum Dynalab makes stand alone FM tuners. They make the best ones on the planet. Their most popular model is the MD90t. Their tuners were used in broadcast trucks. They were modified so they could hook up equipment to analyze the signal and listen to the signal. Magnum Dynalab is based in Canada and made in Canada. They buy buy back and trade-in their old tuners. They will refurbish and resell them with a one year warranty. Not bad when you consider that they will do that on 40 year old tuners. They also have a flat rate repair program. The MD90T has vacuum tubes in it. The MD90 is the solid state version. They have a bunch of different models to choose from. The MD90T is a couple grand, but a refurbished FT110a is a few hundred.
@@stephenbrockway5899 Good point. It’s notable and rare exception. For the rest of us, Naim Nat01, Linn Kremlin, Leak Troughline and all of the great Kenwood, Sansui and Yamaha tuners are all being kept going now like Cuban cars.
@@HectorHughMunro $500 to $700 for a like new refurbished 40 year old tuner with a 1 year warranty doesn't seem so bad. Both of my stereo systems don't have a tuner. I have been shopping FB marketplace and craigslist for used tuners. Haven't seen anything I want to bring home yet.
@@stephenbrockway5899 The equivalent of Magnum Dynalab in Europe was Revox. If you happen upon a used one for the right price, they’re interesting. It’s what the broadcasters here used to use.
Appreciate all of the information and expert opinion on the equipment mentioned in this video. The one big strike against this video is the title? Reading it poses a question, "Stereo vs Home Theater receivers, which is best?" The home theater side representation would be such a poor choice if you were actually attempting to answer the question that was posed in the title. So the title sucks. But that's all. I do appreciate the niche this product is attempting to fill and based on your video, you've convinced me it's mostly a big miss for Onkyo. I don't know really though because that's not my niche. And there will be some that this fills their niche. I'm mostly music all day every day with a 2 or 3 movies a week. A hi-fi stereo guy using a Marantz AVR with a Marantz amp handling the two big guns up front. Solid performance for 2-channel music and 7.2.2 theater sound. Far from the snooty required for a real audiophile but over budget against a 2 channel AVR. I don't think the Onkyo really offers much of a solution for either hi-fi or home theater. I think it's a good question you pose in the title, but you really didn't come anywhere near the actual argument. But still a solid equipment review. Thanks.
Who is this for? Several years ago, I moved away from my AVR 5.1 setup in favor of a better two-channel experience. Why? I listened to more music than movies. However, my setup has a television and the lack of HDMI connectivity for two-channel systems, forced me to use the optical connections for audio. Had a viable two-channel solution been available back then, this would have been on the list as it would have made the interface more seem less for my daughters to use. I selected the Cambridge Audio CX81. Given your review here, I am “guessing” I would prefer my CX81, which I absolutely love with my Polk R200’s.
My takeaway from this video is that home theater is a minefield. I will stick to my 2-channel Yamaha AS-2200 because it shines in one standard that will never change - good sound. In five years atmos will be dead and a new standard will emerge from the need to resell old movie titles in new in a new way. Long live 2 channel audio!
Hi Andrew - I was surprised, not in a good way. I had high hopes for the Class G topology, but it obviously was not "Beta " tested as rigorously as it should have. Had they allowed you to beta test this receiver, maybe the flaws and imperfections would have been addressed prior to release. But, for $999.00. currently for the RZ-50, why would anyone consider this unit? Thanks as always for an honest and concise review. I fear Kristie's remarks - as should Onkyo!🤣🤣
Marantz M1 + Kef R3 meta here: super accurate and musical combo but it lacks the punch at lower volumes. Movies sounds dull. No articulation, even with the voice option on high. It feels just weird. So I would suggest a 3.1 stereo M2 amp that shines in stereo, can keep up at lower volumes and make movies a bit more easy to understand and involving. Or maybe they can give the M1 a movie setting + room correction to get things right.
@@HeyFixThis thank you, that is the information I was looking for. I want full quality at lower levels. Hard to find! Any suggestion within the field of amp-streamers? I have these Kef’s too.
This review for some reason leaves me feeling conflicted without being confused. Take Aways Wish you elaborated on Class G amplification. Onkyo Connections - A+ Integration of Features and Performance C- Value - C- Comparisons - Seems like You have a Love Hate relationship with Wiim. You make a very compelling case for HT receivers and Marantz. Even though I felt conflicted, I don't disagree with your conclusions. Wondering how Onkyo could, on paper, make such a good product but in practice be out classed by everything else.
I like the retro look and simplified function. But the far superior Marantz Stereo 70 is just $200 more? I would recommend buyers take a hard look at the Marantz Stereo 70 and save just a little longer.
I am stubborn and refuse to get rid of my Class D, DTS Neo:X 9.1 Pioneer Elite SC57 flagship. When the restrictions of upmixing Atmos/DSU to have front wides is lifted I'll upgrade. Long live the front wides!!! Please let us upmix our material to DSU or Neural:X so we can have front wides 100% of the time from mono to Atmos to DTS:X, its my device and I'll upmix whatever I want
Great review!! One question! Seeing that more and more amps include the streaming possibilities, which brand has the best and most stable app to stream the digitalized flac music stored in a computer or Nas in the same network?
Agree 💯 % We now know simply too much about a rooms influence on a systems outcome to neglect room correction in all products including stereo receivers. I’ve heard such good things about the Model M1 but stray away due to its lack of Room Correction. The Model 10 @ 15k without Room Correction or HDMI connectivity. I was like Wha the Wha?? 😳 Give me a solid AVR with quality room correction and my guess is the overall result will best much higher priced stereo products without. Great Video, Thank you 😊
Been having a Blast with my Onkyo SR333, Onkyo C-7030 CD Player plus Bowers & Wilkins 685 S2 Speakers for the past 8 years. Bliss really, effortlessly does 90 db plus if and when the need arises. Amazing Brand! I suppose the Class G amp here needs further fine tuning for the next series.
Please note that with any receiver 2 channel or multi channel, do NOT set the receiver to 4ohms leave it at 6 or 8ohm. If you switch it to 4 ohms you will starve your amp of voltage and your speakers will be starved for power.
Was looking at this as a cheaper alternative to similar Marantz (stereo 70) and Denon units, given that Onkyo promoted it as having “audiophile “ components but it sounds like their marketing department got a little carried away!
I agree with you on the matter of using an AVR as a hybrid system. I have a Denon AVR-X3300W that I use for home theater plus stereo music listening. I don't know, but maybe I'm expecting more than I can realistically get. What I'd like is a home theater system that can be switched to stereo and have a good analog stereo sound and still be able to use bass management. If you ever come across a unit that can manage that please review it and give us your opinion. Keeping in mind that most of us can't afford high end equipment. ps. I like your reviews. Thanks.
Actually bought this receiver last weekend. The European model, so maybe it matters (it has other specs in the manual and even says 2x140W on the sticker at the front). But my experiences are quite different. Coming from a Denon PMA-700AE this is a huge improvement with my KEF Q750s! It has way more control and gives me a more "complete" sound. (Denon had way too boomy bass and lacked a middle) Been using the internal dac for watching some Blu-Rays and an external one for listening CDs. Actually the Onkyo accepted bitstream (and it should when playing DSD from SACDs) from my Panasonic UB420. Dialogs are perfectly clear and also audible at low volumes. It's also very musical with Blu-Rays. Have to test cds yet with the AKM dac, been listening them via an Audiolab MDAC+ and that has also been a joy. So I'm really interested in why our experiences are so opposite...
My first setup was an Onkyo TX-8270 with a pair of KEF Q350s with an SVS SB2000. My current setup is a Marantz Cinema 70 feeding a Crown XLS 1502 powering a pair of KEF R3s (non-meta) with a pair of SVS SB3000s.
How does that sound? I have the Cinema 70 and a pair of older Q 550's. Very similar to the 350's Right now I have a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 50 7G bi amped using the height channel amps. It's a nice clean presentation in my small room. I do run a single sub as well. But I haven't tried the older KEF's yet. I take it you have a larger room and certainly must prefer a louder presentation with the use of the Crown amp. Another thing I am considering is purchasing the Heaven 11 Billie Mk2 for the mains. I find the KEF'S tend to be a little too neutral for my tastes now, same with the MA's actually. Hoping to warm things up a bit with the Billie.
@@boneseyyl1060 It sounds good to me. I’m sure it’s far from perfect. My room is a small room. There aren’t many hifi dealers here so my exposure/experience has been pretty limited. Even my choice of KEF has been based on watching and reading reviews. I do like the idea of a point source which is what drew me to KEF as well. One thing I really like about the Crown amp is the ability to set a high pass filter. I do also have some speakers from DALI. My desk setup is a Pro-ject Maia DS2 connected to my computer via USB powering a pair of DALI Opticon 1 (first gen) speakers. That’s a nice listening experience too.
Not least because of your positive review of the Cinema 40, I bought this Marantz AVR - also in the hope that a device in this price range would also deliver good stereo sound. I was disappointed - in DIRECT mode, the Cinema 40 doesn't come anywhere close to the sound of my ancient stereo amplifier "Onkyo Integra 8870". It lacks pressure and power, especially at the bottom end. When I look at the transformers from the outside, I get an idea of what at least one of the causes could be. Of course, I don't know whether, for example, a RZ50, a Yamaha A6A or an Anthem 540 sound better in pure stereo mode and have enough power for it, but for me my experience now means that only a separation between film/surround sound and pure stereo operation with the devices made for each makes sense. Ergo: AVR only for film sound, stereo amplifier for listening to music in stereo. My dream of ONE device for everything remains a dream.
I think you hit it in the bullseye with your thoughts of using an AVR as basis for a simple stereo system. Like WTF not? Makes perfect sense and I have been in this hobby for, ahem, decades now. Good options for consideration too. Just curious about Rotel and Cambridge Audio options or are they way too expensive to compare? Another great review! Always look forward to these! Cheers from the great white north!
I have two systems: An old Pioneer AVR Elite in the family room which is hooked up to my TV but is great for music too (I keep it on Pure Direct); and for listening only, I have the Marantz Model 40N in the living room. If I didn’t have room for two listening spaces, the AVR works great for both. At some point, I may upgrade the AVR because it is pre-Dolby Atmos.
A Decent AVR is all you need imho the room correction alone does way more for the sound than the stereo receiver can hope to deliver. Also do i spot some nice Debut 3.0's cant wait for that review.
Good review thanks for the info without wasting my time. Which Yamaha AV should I use as a two channel to believe it or not power my poke atrium eight outdoor speakers for inside the house.
There is nothing wrong with either, each has its benefits and for a normal household avrs are easy plug and play. However i have to say going from denon x3800 to yamaha as1200 with a pre amp did blow my mind.
--- At 13:40 - "AVRs are a better way to build a two channel setup".... That's kinda what I'm thinking: I have an Onkyo AV receiver... It's nice.. At 8:45 - In order to hear all the words, I find that a center channel speaker works wonders. So if for nothing else, would recommend a multi-channel setup, if possible.... say 3.1. - I'm finding that I don't hear the surround speakers too much. I hear them just a little. That may be because of room acoustics. Not sure.
9:48 yeah… that is a head scratcher. I heartily agree w your conclusions as I kept asking the same questions up to this point in the review: why not get Onkyo RZ50? or Sony AN1000? Or for a few quid more Marantz Stereo 70s or M1?
It is probably still a bit pricey compared to what else is out there, but did you try it as a preamp? Paired with something like an Emotiva amp, or something totally off the wall like your Mac amp that you have in...
In that it is an accepted fact that NO television comes with a high end audio IF you want to get the most from your theater , SET the TV audio on as low as you can and let the better amp do most of the amplifying. The Onkyo just might do better if the TV (pre-amp) isn't distorting the signal as much.
Good vid. You know, it’s interesting, a lot of the complaints I heard you share about the sound of this unit are the same complaints I had about the TX-NR6050 I bought. My comparatively lower end Yamaha RX-V385 sounds a lot better with my old Pioneer speakers. I bought the Onkyo to get higher bandwidth h HDMI switching (that works great) and to give Atmos a try. But I was so dissatisfied with the sound I went back to my old 5.1 receiver and am a little scared to attempt another upgrade as I’m out the money for this unit until I find a buyer.
I have a TX-8260 powering Klipsch RF-63s without a sub and it sounds great. I used to have a denon dra-297 there and the onkyo sounds a lot cleaner. Only complaint, and it’s a big one, is if you have the onkyo on WiFi (especially worse with 5ghz) and airplay to it, it’s very choppy for first several seconds, whether you change tracks, start a track, seek a track. Only way I got around it was to wire it to one of my routers using an Ethernet cable. I’m curious if you got a chance to test it. I reached out to onkyo support and after failing to resolve it they claimed it was a hardware issue and needs service. A little googling tells me it’s a fairly common issue.
Good morning guys! I’m finding these new “AVR light” receivers interesting. I have the axr100 mostly following your recommendation powering a pair of revel m16, I’m using optical in from the tv and relying on the subwoofer’s built in lpf, I use my tv as a streamer, etc. it would be nice to have a more feature rich option. How do you feel the m1 compares to the axr100, feel free to add in a comment about the marantz stereo line if you think that’s a better option
People who are looking at this one from Onkyo should also look at the Yamaha R-N 1000A . It has almost the same features but way better sounding. I picked mine up for around 1100 dollars so it is in the same price range and way better sounding.
@@Jeremy_Baeyens ah i guess too some. I hate using arc/earc as I always have CEC issues. optical can handle up to 5.1 with no loss so obviously for 2 .1 optical would be plenty.
@andrewrobinsonreviews I'm not too surprised that it held the Titans back. However, I was a little more surprised that it was bested by options both above and below it's price ponit.
@@umrryan The 3100 cannot handle the Titans either, and don't try the Titans on the WiiM, but the Marantz models and RZ50 TOTALLY work on the Titans. Go figure.
What I really want is a really good 3.1 channel receiver with a good phono input and maybe 2 HDMI inputs. My setup doesn't allow for 41.1 nor a 100 connected components.
Would the unintelligibility be more or less a result of the class G amplification? Im from the A/B camp, and would be curious if the comparison would be fair.
I have to admit my ignorance, but I have never heard of class G amplification. It seems that Onkyo, with this product, completely missed the mark. 110 WPC mean nothing if the sound sucks! A lot of competition in the sub $1,000 market and don't be surprised to see the 8470 on sale at close of half the price in the near future. Time will tell.
Sounds like a poor implementation of a Class G amplifier. What are the benefits of Class G other than increased power efficiency? I find it odd that Onkyo chose that class amp for this receiver.
Hey Andrew will we be seeing a possible review from you when it comes to the new klipsch flexus core soundbar 300 with Dirac Live along with the two subwoofers and rear surround speakers
I had a Denon how theater amp I bought in 98 for 650 bones. Paradigm speakers ( studio 40) and Sunfire sub . I have a dedicated tube system now but man that theater amp for two channel listening is still the best system I’ve had .
People sleep on AVRs at their own peril. Just because an AVR may not be "hifi" doesn't mean it can't reproduce sound at hifi-like levels, and some even besting budget hifi gear.
799 is a hefty price point to have trouble with driving bookshelves. I am surprised you didn't test with some sensitive towers like RP-8000f II's. Of course if the 8000's are need to offer redemption for this 8470 I really don't know who it's built for. I am curious if a cheap Sony STR-DH590 could beat the Onkyo ? I am typically under 70db in room, my needs are small but why does my Sansui 2000 rated at 32 watts have NO Issue driving bookshelves ? I am told the older vintage gear have better current, in that they are able to sustain voltage through the impedance variation through the frequencies. I have a hunch that the Denon DRA-335 I bought at a thrift store would have less issues driving decent SPL levels. I guess if there were no dialog clarity issues at low volumes this machine could solve some use case.
@@chrisveltman1795 It's coming along!! Next up is landscaping and painting the privacy wall. RE: the game Honestly, I was surprised that we came out so strong. I half expected Ewers to struggle bus his way through the first half before getting benched for Manning. Any guesses about where Michigan will end up in the AP rankings?
I do enjoy my Marantz NR1510 for movies and music. For $599, it seems to a better buy. But I do like one thing about Onkyo, in my experience they are pretty reliable.
Most of us simply don't have room for two separate systems for movies vs music. I've been using a single does-it-all full-blown AVR from Onkyo for years now. Why bother with anything else? I like my surround sound and Atmos and such as much as my classic 2-channel audio sources and I want one component to handle it all - I already have that with almost nothing to complain about.
@@michaelrossmaessler200 I still use DPL more that I actually use digital surround. Especially for 2-channel video sources (like UA-cam). Every once is a while, I'll forget to switch back to standard stereo for music and it surprises me how much DPL opens up the sound - especially on live recordings.
I'm currently using a old TX-SR313 AVR, but set up as a 2.1 after my centre channel was damaged. I'm looking to upgrade the AVR and had hopes for this Onkyo to be my upgrade as it seemed aimed at me, but I guess not.
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I was hopeful at the start of this video then very soon disappointed lol....maybe a higher end receiver would work for offering the Sonus Faber Lumina II, Sonetto I or Sonetto II sufficient power? Do you have a recommendation for a suitable receiver up to maybe $1,500 USD i'm never sure with Australian hifi prices but $4,000 AUD max? Audio quality is a very high priority for me, voice intelligibility is huge priority, also Dolby Vision is a must for me. I'm considering adding a SVS 3000 Micro Sub to the bookshelf speakers, I'm wanting to use them for a room thats 4m by 3.5m. Its bedroom with bed, cabinets, fridge, microwave, thick carpet, plasterboard walls with one 90/180cm horizontal double glazed window? I'm stuck in bed so my entertainment is Very much a priority and well worth saving for a long time so I can purchase quality Audio Visual gear. Also, do you have a guide to setting up the best possible sound through a PC? Most of my entertainment is via my pc.
Hey Andrew, the RZ50 you mentioned has a pricepoint of almost double of the 8470, at least in Germany. So the compairson is a leatle weak. 1500€ is a lot of money and i had offers of the NAD C399 for just that. I just bought the 8470 for 699€ new+unused, which is a great deal and i think you get a lot for the money. The featurelist is packed and at the moment it's a no brainer if you don't want an A/B.
Did you switch the receiver to 4 ohms in the settings? If so that could be why you were underwhelmed with the sound. Even if your speakers are 4ohms the receiver will automatically adjust to what’s needed by the speakers. Switching it to 4 ohms will basically give you about 40 watts of power with a way higher distortion level.
That's me Robinson. I have a Yamaha AV receiver (class A/B of course), 2 polks and a modest sub and I've been super happy for years.
Love it! Thanks for sharing!
Great system mate
@@Zimmy_1981 Thanks, simple and sounds great with an amazing sound-stage. All streaming through TV, digital connect to AV receiver (pre HDMI) with turn table and Blu-ray connected. Not to say I don't lust after some of Mr. Robinson's goodies, but it functions well for me.
Something similar here, im using older jbls with Yamaha receiver and never needed dedicated stereo like mine main. Using tube amp for stereo in my Office.
Why do guys like you and I still watch these videos? I love this stuff but I really love my Marantz AVR w Heresys and subs.
The more I learn about this audiophile hobby, the more I realize how little I know. Everyday there is a different product, video, comment that teaches me and confuses me at the same time. All that said, I appreciate all the learning I get from this channel as I find it to be among the most informative for the audiophile industry.
Came here to compliment Andrew’s hair. That Keeps stuff is magic.
This is not Onkyo’s first disappointment.
A very honest review.
Thanks and keep on the good work!
I had a couple of Onkyo stereo receivers that I was happy with for a short time: the first one broke down at age 4 and the second one at age 3. I decided to change brands, buy an integrated Rotel basics that 12 years later is still working. It was a drastic change in durability and sound quality. Good video Andrew.
I built my 5.4.1 system around the rz50 almost 18 months ago and still don't regret it for a minute.
At current prices it still seems like a no-brainer to me.
Thanks for another solid review, AR.
Fan cooling and AVR is a great way to improve its sustainable power output. Here’s how you can tell how well it works. Turn on your receiver cold and play some music nice and loud and pay attention to how great it sounds when it’s cool. Many receivers will start to fall apart after about 5 minutes of playing music loud.
Fan cooling will give you that same performance you get in the first 1-2 minutes as long as you want. Thermal management of AVRs is generally not great.
The extra channels of an AVR aren't completely wasted when running in stereo. Sure, there's rear plugs, circuitry and some processing capability not being used, but on most AVRs, you do get to utilise those channels' power. To me, using the surround / centre power to get the most out of two channels actually makes AVRs pretty good value per watt. They can just do more, and unless you're really after a ten-tenths hi-fi experience PLUS have the space to dedicate a separate system for music, a good AVR works for me. Just flick it to 2-channel for music.
I bought an Onkyo TX-NR686 7.2 receiver a couple of years ago. Although I have full range rear channel speakers also connected along with two subwoofers, I often run it in two-channel stereo mode. It has a built in MM phono preamplifier and I find it quite good.
Overall, it's a great performer even compared to some of my early silver faced Marantz equipment. Onkyo has identified with a market that they already serve well with their surround sound receivers. It's very easy to not connect and use surround speakers.
I have had my TX-NR686 for about 8 years. Rock solid and good enough. Needed the Phono Input also. That made it an easy decision. The 2nd zone is used everyday. 😊
I love your channel and the reviews (from both of you). Updating my knowledge base after being out of the game for a while. Your presentation as well as the more educated comments from your subscribers really has helped me narrow down my path toward a great HT set up with the limitations of only going in-ceiling. Now, I just need a new AVR/Amp/Sub/TV and some Atmos speakers and I'll be all set....
I ended up going with the Sony az5000es on sale and a pair of Klipsch RP-600M II also on sale With cables all for under $2,500. I am Super happy with the setup! I really did need the AVR-like setup to run audio from my Epson LS11000 projector because I only had 2 HDMI inputs! Needless to say I’m going to build on this system down the road utilizing more channels that the AVR provide, adding subs, and living life satisfied with my purchase
Love it (and also not surprised 😉)
Happy with my Yamaha rx-v 4a. $240 delivered with 3 year warranty.
I think I've stated this before, but my 2 channel set up in the bedroom is a yamaha rx-v1800 (2008ish). I took my old Boston vr3 towers and put my old jbl e-20's on top of them and turned on bi-amping. Toe'd in the jbl's a bit. For music it sounds so much better then the 5.2.4 klipsch rz50 set up in the basement. No need for a sub. These days you can find the older yamaha's pretty cheap. I have a Boston vrc center on it as well for movies, but rarely put it in that mode. Lower volume sounds magical in comparison.
As a lifelong Onkyo supporter, I appreciate and value your insight and feedback. The RZ 50 is the receiver I’m working towards and your review of that model helped to confirm that decision.
I just got the rz50 few weeks ago. Went on sale for 999. Back up to regular price now. I remember your review for that one couple years ago and pulled the trigger finally. Did the Dirac live set up and it sounds fantastic. Even the infamous Blazing Saddles camp fire fart scene sounded “3D”😂. Thanks for the reviews kind sir.
The RZ50 at $999 is among the best values in all of hifi and home theater. It's great! Thanks for watching!
Here’s my question: why aren’t all integrated amplifiers turn into a stereo receiver? I feel like that would a perfect thing: you get incredible sound quality and proper power, while getting a crazy level of features. I used my Rotel in ever setting imaginable while I had it, and all it was missing for me was streaming directly off of it, HDMI connections for my devices and decent app to control it with. I feel like both those categories should just merge into one device and that’s it. It gives you both of all those worlds.
Great review and video.
Wonder what were the last minute changes now 😇😏
Hope everyone is having an awesome Sunday!
I hear ya; it seems like it might be easier for some brands to start with their AVR architecture, then remove channels and beef up just the power amp section, resulting in what could be the "perfect" stereo receiver or integrated.
I have the Denon DRA-900H stereo receiver which has plenty of features for a stereo hybrid. This receiver never seems to be mentioned in comparisons. Would like to know your thoughts on the Denon. I have Klipsch RP600II Speakers and a Klipsch 101 sw and sounds great!
I’m still here watching. At 799 I’d save my money and get the RZ50 on sale for two hundred dollars more. My RZ 50 powers my Focal surround beautifully and I can change it to run two channels . I have a big SVS twin port sub for movies but I plug the ports and I use it as 2 channels with a sub . Love Diana Krall on this set up . Again thank you Kristi and Andrew . I just keep ranting about how good the things you guys brought to me because they are just so good ❤👍
Appreciate that so much! Thank you!
@marklloyd4153 happy RZ50 owner as well, though mine says pioneer on it.
@@marklloyd4153 thinking of gripping tthat RZ50 myself, hopefully. For what it is, very good buy
I replaced Yamaha RX-A830 (7.2 AV) with a Denon DRA-900H (Network Receiver) earlier this year and have been a happy camper since. It's paired it with KEF Q350 bookshelf and Yamaha Yamaha NS-IC800 - In-Ceiling Speakers
Nice, glad you found a solution that really works for you!
I am - well, WAS, based on the operational shortcomings of their modern AVRs - a rabid Onkyo fan, still running a 100 WPC TX-8555 stereo receiver in our separate two channel system (we were running a TX-SR605 in the downstairs home theater for decades until we recently replaced it with a Denon AVR-X2800...a story for another time), and this thing has been solid as a brick.
Really well built with a thick anodized faceplate, a heavy and smooth machined volume knob and a sound that comes off like a good integrated that just happens to have a tuner built in. I almost forgot about the GOLD PLATED RCA connectors, something not seen on products at these prices anymore.....
Since this new Onk two channel unit arrived on the scene, I've been keeping an eye on it, and said it would be what we'd replace the 8555 with if it ever dies.
Just reading the comments in here, I'm concerned.....
What's weird is that they lumped together a "TV" and "Tape" input.....😮
I just replaced my 20 yo Cambridge Audio Azur 540R AVR with the Onkyo TX-RZ50 based on your praise over the years. I'm happy to report that you didn't steer me wrong. I love the RZ50! Most of my listening is music (vinyl, flac), but I also do watch a fair bit of movies and tv shows and all of it sounds amazing. The phono preamp is adequate and the bass management brought the system alive compared to my old receiver. Everything just feels like it was kicked up a notch. Having found it for $950 on Ebay, it's the best deal around I think.
Based on your previous reviews, I’m certain the integra equivalent model will sound the same as this one (it has a few extra connections).
I wonder if the pioneer model, not yet released, would sound and perform better considering how unimpressed you were of the pioneer vsx-lx805 vs the onkyo rz-70. As always thanks for your help in giving all of us, listening and watching your channel, solid information which will lead us to purchasing products best suiting our needs
Sometimes yes, but some speaker sound just better good stereo amplifier. I like hegel with amphion and revel speaker, its perfect match. Nice video 👍
Hello from up north in Toronto. My “stereo” receiver is an Onkyo RZ-50. Can’t complain, especially the price to performance!
The RZ50 is very difficult to get upset with, given how insanely feature-packed it is and how good it sounds.
Thanks for the review. Guessing Kristie is gonna say the M1 is the Longhorns compared to this Michigan Onkyo (😢😰). Bummer for Onkyo, but I just found an Onkyo RZ50 for $900 that I added to my home theater set up and was pleasantly surprised at how nice it sounds driving SVS Ultra Bookshelves/surrounds in 7.1.2 setup. In stereo it sounded pretty darn good actually. Sure not as good as my 2 channel music setup but really for someone that would want to run double duty (movies/music) the RZ50 leaves nothing to be desired really. Probably a better buy for 95% of the population.
When I first got into audio all my gear apart from speakers was ONKYO!! I still have a soft spot for this brand...really decent performance at a super affordable price..... what's not to like!!!?
I have a long history with Onkyo, too. Great brand, IMHO.
@andrewrobinsonreviews but people have concerns about Onkyo's customer service and product reliability. Everyone I know suggested to get Marantz over Denon and Onkyo.
Being a long in the tooth greybeard, I can certainly remember seeing their fabulous separates and receivers from the mid to later ‘80s at my favorite hi-fi shop, but for whatever reason never owned one of their pieces in my journey down the audio rabbit hole until only about 5 years ago when surround sound FOMO got its hooks in me again. After a couple of rather meh Denon models, the TX NR818 was a joy, and my current RZ740 even more so for the Atmos functionality.
One thing that really pissed me off while researching for the switch from the Denon was the FUD around the Onkyo name at the time from the two remaining long lived brick and mortar shops; “we wouldn’t recommend it, they’re going out business, are being bought out, etc.” Geeze, if we wanna get that granular, how often have the P,M and D brands - to name only a few- changed hands over the last several decades, and how deleteriously has that affected their product quality and fan base?
Rant off.
What a refreshingly brutal but honest review. Very classy to include multiple great options from the same brand
So.... for those of us that are let's say music first people, but who have a tv in the same room, what's the 3.1 channel solution that lets us use 2.1 for music and bring in the 3rd (centre) channel for dialogue only when watching TV. Is there such a thing as a 'music first' 2.1 / 3.1 receiver / all in one? right now i have a classic stereo 2 channel amp and speakers combo which is also running a powered sub from a pre out. its great for music but whilst it has e arc, it's useless for movie / tv watching because of the dialogue intelligibility as you so nicely put it. so i also have a soundbar, with its own sub. and a cluttered living room. are there any solutions out there you would recommend?
Interesting review. I would’ve been more curious to see how your Cornwall IV’s sound with this Onkyo product that would’ve had a chance for success. I’m guessing that we all assumed something like this would never work with the Titans so I was not very surprised. Still hoping to see how the Sony ES 3000, 5000, 7000 compare to each other. That said, I grabbed an Onkyo RZ 70 when it was on sale last month(1999) and I’ve been very happy so far with my Heresy IV LCR setup (your recommendation). Keep up the good work!
Another great review. I'll stick to 2 channels even for movies 😊. It's good enough for me.
I have a full 5.4.4 Atmos system and for Daily listening to conserve power i use my Onkyo A9130 paired with a Definitive Technology Dn12 and a pair of Jamo C803 and they absolutely rock the house when needed!
I have an onkyo Pro Logic stero receiver from 1993 or so, Big Black, weighs at least 25Lbs Only thing I had to do to it is replace the main binding posts with modern ones and replace the speaker output relay. Sounds great on everything.
Good info again. I too am a long time Onkyo fan. A $800 2.1 channel stereo amp without room correction seems like a swing and a miss. Onyko's W.R.A.T. power system used to give their budget receivers some good umph too.
Check out the Denon DRA 900H. It does not get a lot of press but its a great unit. I have it and the Marantz S70 setup in my showroom. Clients often prefer the Denon for its lower price. It sounds good! Glad you did this review on the Onkyo. Ill be sticking with the Denon Marantz Yamaha units for stereo receivers.
@@tritiumglo4699 If the price was disregarded between DRA 900H and S70, would they prefer S70?
@@dairatars They like the power of the Denon. And the Denon does everything the Marantz does. Build quality is slightly better on the Marantz. Most people will take the Denon regardless of price.
I thought so too. A good 100+WPC receiver. I coupled this with a pair of Polk es60 and hts10. I am loving the sound. Kept my speaker/sub levels at 0db and sub volume know at 12o clock. Just love those old tone controls. Good punchy bass and clear sound from the class A/B amp
Well done Andrew ! I have the TX-8170 which i purchased hoping it would help my wife navigate inputs easier than my old system by labeling inputs etc.etc. I find the sound was exactly as you found it to be, dull. Have it paired with an older set of efficient Cerwin Vega E-712 which should have been an easy load for the 8170. Bought a Reciever AB switching unit and reinstalled my old Hafler preamp and Adcom amp. Totally night and day difference. I use the Onkyo for tv and dvd duty only now, lol. The Onkyo has no life at low volume and as you found higher volume gets congested. Thanks for reaffirming that my old hearing is still ok !
A fine man to listen to. D'ya know, his most favourable starter turntable is the AT-LP60X. Great choice, I know because I have that turntable and I made a couple of nice little upgrades to it that I think Andy would've liked.
Bullseye! There is much to be learned from these lower fi/budget offerings. Loved this review. You did such a good job on the compare/contrast issues of this receiver. I was surprised by how much content was available to be generated out of delving into the details here. Thanks.
If using an AVR for two channel stereo, best to get one that has pre-amp outputs so you can add your own power amp later.
Hi Andrew, I mentioned earlier, the Denon DRA900H receiver, in another video on your channel.
Now that I've seen this review, I'd like to ask if you could consider comparing this Onkyo to that Denon, since they are both AV receivers, with very identical features and with a very equal price as well. Thanks.
The thing I appreciate is any manufacturer, as in this case, that includes a FM radio. It’s getting tough to find one and serious tuners are only available used now.
Exactly. There's an FM station in my area I love and I want that capability. I'm probably stuck with an AVR for life... and that's OK.
Magnum Dynalab makes stand alone FM tuners. They make the best ones on the planet. Their most popular model is the MD90t.
Their tuners were used in broadcast trucks. They were modified so they could hook up equipment to analyze the signal and listen to the signal.
Magnum Dynalab is based in Canada and made in Canada. They buy buy back and trade-in their old tuners. They will refurbish and resell them with a one year warranty. Not bad when you consider that they will do that on 40 year old tuners. They also have a flat rate repair program.
The MD90T has vacuum tubes in it. The MD90 is the solid state version. They have a bunch of different models to choose from. The MD90T is a couple grand, but a refurbished FT110a is a few hundred.
@@stephenbrockway5899 Good point. It’s notable and rare exception. For the rest of us, Naim Nat01, Linn Kremlin, Leak Troughline and all of the great Kenwood, Sansui and Yamaha tuners are all being kept going now like Cuban cars.
@@HectorHughMunro $500 to $700 for a like new refurbished 40 year old tuner with a 1 year warranty doesn't seem so bad. Both of my stereo systems don't have a tuner. I have been shopping FB marketplace and craigslist for used tuners. Haven't seen anything I want to bring home yet.
@@stephenbrockway5899 The equivalent of Magnum Dynalab in Europe was Revox. If you happen upon a used one for the right price, they’re interesting. It’s what the broadcasters here used to use.
Appreciate all of the information and expert opinion on the equipment mentioned in this video. The one big strike against this video is the title? Reading it poses a question, "Stereo vs Home Theater receivers, which is best?" The home theater side representation would be such a poor choice if you were actually attempting to answer the question that was posed in the title. So the title sucks. But that's all. I do appreciate the niche this product is attempting to fill and based on your video, you've convinced me it's mostly a big miss for Onkyo. I don't know really though because that's not my niche. And there will be some that this fills their niche. I'm mostly music all day every day with a 2 or 3 movies a week. A hi-fi stereo guy using a Marantz AVR with a Marantz amp handling the two big guns up front. Solid performance for 2-channel music and 7.2.2 theater sound. Far from the snooty required for a real audiophile but over budget against a 2 channel AVR. I don't think the Onkyo really offers much of a solution for either hi-fi or home theater. I think it's a good question you pose in the title, but you really didn't come anywhere near the actual argument. But still a solid equipment review. Thanks.
Happy Sunday Andrew 🎉
Same to you. Thanks for joining us this morning!
Who is this for?
Several years ago, I moved away from my AVR 5.1 setup in favor of a better two-channel experience. Why? I listened to more music than movies. However, my setup has a television and the lack of HDMI connectivity for two-channel systems, forced me to use the optical connections for audio. Had a viable two-channel solution been available back then, this would have been on the list as it would have made the interface more seem less for my daughters to use.
I selected the Cambridge Audio CX81. Given your review here, I am “guessing” I would prefer my CX81, which I absolutely love with my Polk R200’s.
Thanks for the review. This reinforces my decision to go with the Marantz NR1200 that you reviewed a few years ago.
Marantz's stereo receivers are rock-solid and are a go-to recommendation.
Around 1994, I bought an Onkyo double cassette deck. It costed me $222. The best deck I ever had.
My takeaway from this video is that home theater is a minefield. I will stick to my 2-channel Yamaha AS-2200 because it shines in one standard that will never change - good sound. In five years atmos will be dead and a new standard will emerge from the need to resell old movie titles in new in a new way. Long live 2 channel audio!
That’s too bad… I had high hopes for this one… Thanks for the review.
Switching my high hopes to the RZ30 now
Hi Andrew - I was surprised, not in a good way. I had high hopes for the Class G topology, but it obviously was not "Beta " tested as rigorously as it should have. Had they allowed you to beta test this receiver, maybe the flaws and imperfections would have been addressed prior to release.
But, for $999.00. currently for the RZ-50, why would anyone consider this unit?
Thanks as always for an honest and concise review. I fear Kristie's remarks - as should Onkyo!🤣🤣
Marantz M1 + Kef R3 meta here: super accurate and musical combo but it lacks the punch at lower volumes. Movies sounds dull. No articulation, even with the voice option on high. It feels just weird. So I would suggest a 3.1 stereo M2 amp that shines in stereo, can keep up at lower volumes and make movies a bit more easy to understand and involving. Or maybe they can give the M1 a movie setting + room correction to get things right.
@@HeyFixThis thank you, that is the information I was looking for. I want full quality at lower levels. Hard to find! Any suggestion within the field of amp-streamers? I have these Kef’s too.
Love my M1
This review for some reason leaves me feeling conflicted without being confused.
Take Aways
Wish you elaborated on Class G amplification.
Onkyo Connections - A+
Integration of Features and Performance C-
Value - C-
Comparisons - Seems like You have a Love Hate relationship with Wiim.
You make a very compelling case for HT receivers and Marantz.
Even though I felt conflicted, I don't disagree with your conclusions.
Wondering how Onkyo could, on paper, make such a good product but in practice be out classed by everything else.
I like the retro look and simplified function. But the far superior Marantz Stereo 70 is just $200 more? I would recommend buyers take a hard look at the Marantz Stereo 70 and save just a little longer.
Love my AVR, it's the best of both worlds
Thank you for your review, still looking for a good downsizing solution for getting old. Appreciate your reviews.
I am stubborn and refuse to get rid of my Class D, DTS Neo:X 9.1 Pioneer Elite SC57 flagship. When the restrictions of upmixing Atmos/DSU to have front wides is lifted I'll upgrade. Long live the front wides!!! Please let us upmix our material to DSU or Neural:X so we can have front wides 100% of the time from mono to Atmos to DTS:X, its my device and I'll upmix whatever I want
Great review!! One question! Seeing that more and more amps include the streaming possibilities, which brand has the best and most stable app to stream the digitalized flac music stored in a computer or Nas in the same network?
He's going to say! Wiim
Agree 💯 %
We now know simply too much about a rooms influence on a systems outcome to neglect room correction in all products including stereo receivers.
I’ve heard such good things about the Model M1 but stray away due to its lack of Room Correction.
The Model 10 @ 15k without Room Correction or HDMI connectivity. I was like Wha the Wha?? 😳
Give me a solid AVR with quality room correction and my guess is the overall result will best much higher priced stereo products without.
Great Video,
Thank you 😊
Been having a Blast with my Onkyo SR333, Onkyo C-7030 CD Player plus Bowers & Wilkins 685 S2 Speakers for the past 8 years. Bliss really, effortlessly does 90 db plus if and when the need arises. Amazing Brand! I suppose the Class G amp here needs further fine tuning for the next series.
Please note that with any receiver 2 channel or multi channel, do NOT set the receiver to 4ohms leave it at 6 or 8ohm. If you switch it to 4 ohms you will starve your amp of voltage and your speakers will be starved for power.
"Even though, I think we both know I'm right." 😆. I'm walking into next week with this as my mantra!
Was looking at this as a cheaper alternative to similar Marantz (stereo 70) and Denon units, given that Onkyo promoted it as having “audiophile “ components but it sounds like their marketing department got a little carried away!
I agree with you on the matter of using an AVR as a hybrid system. I have a Denon AVR-X3300W that I use for home theater plus stereo music listening. I don't know, but maybe I'm expecting more than I can realistically get. What I'd like is a home theater system that can be switched to stereo and have a good analog stereo sound and still be able to use bass management. If you ever come across a unit that can manage that please review it and give us your opinion. Keeping in mind that most of us can't afford high end equipment. ps. I like your reviews. Thanks.
Actually bought this receiver last weekend. The European model, so maybe it matters (it has other specs in the manual and even says 2x140W on the sticker at the front). But my experiences are quite different. Coming from a Denon PMA-700AE this is a huge improvement with my KEF Q750s! It has way more control and gives me a more "complete" sound. (Denon had way too boomy bass and lacked a middle) Been using the internal dac for watching some Blu-Rays and an external one for listening CDs. Actually the Onkyo accepted bitstream (and it should when playing DSD from SACDs) from my Panasonic UB420. Dialogs are perfectly clear and also audible at low volumes. It's also very musical with Blu-Rays. Have to test cds yet with the AKM dac, been listening them via an Audiolab MDAC+ and that has also been a joy. So I'm really interested in why our experiences are so opposite...
I love this channel when you guys do video where the products are on the "obtainium" products
My first setup was an Onkyo TX-8270 with a pair of KEF Q350s with an SVS SB2000. My current setup is a Marantz Cinema 70 feeding a Crown XLS 1502 powering a pair of KEF R3s (non-meta) with a pair of SVS SB3000s.
How does that sound? I have the Cinema 70 and a pair of older Q 550's. Very similar to the 350's Right now I have a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 50 7G bi amped using the height channel amps. It's a nice clean presentation in my small room. I do run a single sub as well. But I haven't tried the older KEF's yet.
I take it you have a larger room and certainly must prefer a louder presentation with the use of the Crown amp. Another thing I am considering is purchasing the Heaven 11 Billie Mk2 for the mains. I find the KEF'S tend to be a little too neutral for my tastes now, same with the MA's actually. Hoping to warm things up a bit with the Billie.
@@boneseyyl1060 It sounds good to me. I’m sure it’s far from perfect. My room is a small room. There aren’t many hifi dealers here so my exposure/experience has been pretty limited. Even my choice of KEF has been based on watching and reading reviews. I do like the idea of a point source which is what drew me to KEF as well. One thing I really like about the Crown amp is the ability to set a high pass filter. I do also have some speakers from DALI. My desk setup is a Pro-ject Maia DS2 connected to my computer via USB powering a pair of DALI Opticon 1 (first gen) speakers. That’s a nice listening experience too.
Not least because of your positive review of the Cinema 40, I bought this Marantz AVR - also in the hope that a device in this price range would also deliver good stereo sound. I was disappointed - in DIRECT mode, the Cinema 40 doesn't come anywhere close to the sound of my ancient stereo amplifier "Onkyo Integra 8870". It lacks pressure and power, especially at the bottom end. When I look at the transformers from the outside, I get an idea of what at least one of the causes could be.
Of course, I don't know whether, for example, a RZ50, a Yamaha A6A or an Anthem 540 sound better in pure stereo mode and have enough power for it, but for me my experience now means that only a separation between film/surround sound and pure stereo operation with the devices made for each makes sense. Ergo: AVR only for film sound, stereo amplifier for listening to music in stereo. My dream of ONE device for everything remains a dream.
I think you hit it in the bullseye with your thoughts of using an AVR as basis for a simple stereo system. Like WTF not? Makes perfect sense and I have been in this hobby for, ahem, decades now. Good options for consideration too. Just curious about Rotel and Cambridge Audio options or are they way too expensive to compare? Another great review! Always look forward to these! Cheers from the great white north!
Flagging this for Friday's Unplugged.
Cool! And it's Ian from Eastern Canada if my name doesn't show up.
I have two systems: An old Pioneer AVR Elite in the family room which is hooked up to my TV but is great for music too (I keep it on Pure Direct); and for listening only, I have the Marantz Model 40N in the living room. If I didn’t have room for two listening spaces, the AVR works great for both. At some point, I may upgrade the AVR because it is pre-Dolby Atmos.
A Decent AVR is all you need imho the room correction alone does way more for the sound than the stereo receiver can hope to deliver. Also do i spot some nice Debut 3.0's cant wait for that review.
Good review thanks for the info without wasting my time. Which Yamaha AV should I use as a two channel to believe it or not power my poke atrium eight outdoor speakers for inside the house.
There is nothing wrong with either, each has its benefits and for a normal household avrs are easy plug and play. However i have to say going from denon x3800 to yamaha as1200 with a pre amp did blow my mind.
--- At 13:40 - "AVRs are a better way to build a two channel setup".... That's kinda what I'm thinking:
I have an Onkyo AV receiver... It's nice.. At 8:45 - In order to hear all the words, I find that a center channel speaker works wonders. So if for nothing else, would recommend a multi-channel setup, if possible.... say 3.1.
- I'm finding that I don't hear the surround speakers too much. I hear them just a little. That may be because of room acoustics. Not sure.
9:48 yeah… that is a head scratcher. I heartily agree w your conclusions as I kept asking the same questions up to this point in the review:
why not get Onkyo RZ50? or Sony AN1000? Or for a few quid more Marantz Stereo 70s or M1?
It is probably still a bit pricey compared to what else is out there, but did you try it as a preamp? Paired with something like an Emotiva amp, or something totally off the wall like your Mac amp that you have in...
In that it is an accepted fact that NO television comes with a high end audio IF you want to get the most from your theater , SET the TV audio on as low as you can and let the better amp do most of the amplifying.
The Onkyo just might do better if the TV (pre-amp) isn't distorting the signal as much.
Good vid. You know, it’s interesting, a lot of the complaints I heard you share about the sound of this unit are the same complaints I had about the TX-NR6050 I bought. My comparatively lower end Yamaha RX-V385 sounds a lot better with my old Pioneer speakers. I bought the Onkyo to get higher bandwidth h HDMI switching (that works great) and to give Atmos a try. But I was so dissatisfied with the sound I went back to my old 5.1 receiver and am a little scared to attempt another upgrade as I’m out the money for this unit until I find a buyer.
I’ve got an amstrad bush and crown and sharp stack system mind blowing hifi lol and I’m really happy 😅
God Bless anyone that goes down that rabbit hole .
I have a TX-8260 powering Klipsch RF-63s without a sub and it sounds great. I used to have a denon dra-297 there and the onkyo sounds a lot cleaner.
Only complaint, and it’s a big one, is if you have the onkyo on WiFi (especially worse with 5ghz) and airplay to it, it’s very choppy for first several seconds, whether you change tracks, start a track, seek a track. Only way I got around it was to wire it to one of my routers using an Ethernet cable. I’m curious if you got a chance to test it.
I reached out to onkyo support and after failing to resolve it they claimed it was a hardware issue and needs service. A little googling tells me it’s a fairly common issue.
Good morning guys!
I’m finding these new “AVR light” receivers interesting. I have the axr100 mostly following your recommendation powering a pair of revel m16, I’m using optical in from the tv and relying on the subwoofer’s built in lpf, I use my tv as a streamer, etc. it would be nice to have a more feature rich option. How do you feel the m1 compares to the axr100, feel free to add in a comment about the marantz stereo line if you think that’s a better option
People who are looking at this one from Onkyo should also look at the Yamaha R-N 1000A . It has almost the same features but way better sounding. I picked mine up for around 1100 dollars so it is in the same price range and way better sounding.
Agreed or the Yamaha RN800
@@3184Patrick no HDMI E-ARC on the rn-800 therefore I feel like not the same..
@@Jeremy_Baeyens ah i guess too some. I hate using arc/earc as I always have CEC issues. optical can handle up to 5.1 with no loss so obviously for 2 .1 optical would be plenty.
Good morning friends, I'm looking forward to those comparisons. (In addition to the review)
The comparisons, I think, are thought-provoking.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews It didn't drive Titans well?! 😂
@@umrryan It wasn't my favorite. It did work; it just didn't sound as good as I know those speakers can sound.
@andrewrobinsonreviews I'm not too surprised that it held the Titans back. However, I was a little more surprised that it was bested by options both above and below it's price ponit.
@@umrryan The 3100 cannot handle the Titans either, and don't try the Titans on the WiiM, but the Marantz models and RZ50 TOTALLY work on the Titans. Go figure.
What I really want is a really good 3.1 channel receiver with a good phono input and maybe 2 HDMI inputs. My setup doesn't allow for 41.1 nor a 100 connected components.
Would the unintelligibility be more or less a result of the class G amplification? Im from the A/B camp, and would be curious if the comparison would be fair.
Marantz is a no brainer.
I have to admit my ignorance, but I have never heard of class G amplification. It seems that Onkyo, with this product, completely missed the mark. 110 WPC mean nothing if the sound sucks! A lot of competition in the sub $1,000 market and don't be surprised to see the 8470 on sale at close of half the price in the near future. Time will tell.
I love my big black metal boxes. Soundbar can never match the sheer weight and power of sound of a receiver and speakers.
Sounds like a poor implementation of a Class G amplifier. What are the benefits of Class G other than increased power efficiency? I find it odd that Onkyo chose that class amp for this receiver.
Why don't they just make a 3.1 AVR? A "center channel" helps for vocals and dialog.
Hey Andrew will we be seeing a possible review from you when it comes to the new klipsch flexus core soundbar 300 with Dirac Live along with the two subwoofers and rear surround speakers
Marantz M1 Stereo Amp be better for TV audio as it has more than PCM it has Dolby DIgital Plus and Dialogue Enhancement also Subwoofer Bass Management
I had a Denon how theater amp I bought in 98 for 650 bones. Paradigm speakers ( studio 40) and Sunfire sub . I have a dedicated tube system now but man that theater amp for two channel listening is still the best system I’ve had .
People sleep on AVRs at their own peril. Just because an AVR may not be "hifi" doesn't mean it can't reproduce sound at hifi-like levels, and some even besting budget hifi gear.
799 is a hefty price point to have trouble with driving bookshelves. I am surprised you didn't test with some sensitive towers like RP-8000f II's.
Of course if the 8000's are need to offer redemption for this 8470 I really don't know who it's built for.
I am curious if a cheap Sony STR-DH590 could beat the Onkyo ?
I am typically under 70db in room, my needs are small but why does my Sansui 2000 rated at 32 watts have NO Issue driving bookshelves ? I am told the older vintage gear have better current, in that they are able to sustain voltage through the impedance variation through the frequencies.
I have a hunch that the Denon DRA-335 I bought at a thrift store would have less issues driving decent SPL levels.
I guess if there were no dialog clarity issues at low volumes this machine could solve some use case.
Do you guys plan to review any of the new JBL AV Receivers by any chance?
Running a Cyrus amp & CDi with PMC speakers. Just going to add a decent soundbar for our LG C2 55"
Thinking Sony HTA5000
My team got hooked. Good morning!
They did, indeed. UT had their number for sure yesterday.
I had to sleep in after all the celebrating I did yesterday. 😁Texas really showed out!
@@KristiWright lol. It was a painful game to watch. But we’re still the reigning National Champs!
Your pool looks amazing!
@@chrisveltman1795 It's coming along!! Next up is landscaping and painting the privacy wall.
RE: the game
Honestly, I was surprised that we came out so strong. I half expected Ewers to struggle bus his way through the first half before getting benched for Manning. Any guesses about where Michigan will end up in the AP rankings?
@@KristiWright they’re not a top 25 team right now.
Great Sunday Everyone!!
Happy Sunday to you! Are you out and about today?
@@andrewrobinsonreviews At home, was just finishing the mastering on a song when I got the notification!
I do enjoy my Marantz NR1510 for movies and music. For $599, it seems to a better buy. But I do like one thing about Onkyo, in my experience they are pretty reliable.
Onkyo products have historically been reliable, at least in my experience; this one just missed the mark for me sound-wise.
Most of us simply don't have room for two separate systems for movies vs music. I've been using a single does-it-all full-blown AVR from Onkyo for years now. Why bother with anything else? I like my surround sound and Atmos and such as much as my classic 2-channel audio sources and I want one component to handle it all - I already have that with almost nothing to complain about.
Plus you have ambience recovery when using stereo sources through DPL for music. It makes a difference on some recordings 🙂
@@michaelrossmaessler200 I still use DPL more that I actually use digital surround. Especially for 2-channel video sources (like UA-cam). Every once is a while, I'll forget to switch back to standard stereo for music and it surprises me how much DPL opens up the sound - especially on live recordings.
I'm currently using a old TX-SR313 AVR, but set up as a 2.1 after my centre channel was damaged. I'm looking to upgrade the AVR and had hopes for this Onkyo to be my upgrade as it seemed aimed at me, but I guess not.