It's so cool to see that this is process optimisation 1:1 how it occurs in the real world. Really nice watching you figure out the different levels of bottle necks while getting down to efficiency details like item time spent on bus. I really enjoyed this episode :) (edit: so far, only on minute 19)
the next update is supposed to add space platforms, so that means you will be able to use the entirety of the dyson sphere, so you might as well build it entirely now unless you wanna make a whole nother series
The Saving test is actually something different then you thought. It has nothing to do with "Ram" but the actual safefile. So your DSP save is 700MB big. The reason they have that there is to ensure saving is done as quick as possible so something like in Oxygen not included doesn't happen. Because lategame it gets stuck for a few seconds trying to save. (On top of that to reduce file size since a few backups of a multigig savefile is really bad... You want it as small as possible)
The consumption rate of matrices for research depends on the research. Each research costs a specific total number of hashes, and a specific total number of matrices. A lab will produce X hashes/second, and it will consume matrices at X/total number of hashes * total number of that matrix. If, for example, a research needed 1000 hashes to complete, and 100 science cubes, a lab producing 100 hashes/second would consume 10 cubes/second
Francis, in regards to losing footage et cetera: Get a separate computer for recording, so that your primary computer is only used for the game at hand. It doesn't even need to be especially powerful, either, though you'll want as large a storage device as you can fit in it for a decent price.
@@lappr0 Cheaty. Like modding in an instant sphere that collects all the power and then some. (Edit: it may even be easier than that, just editing the save file to say they're getting that much power.)
"We're using 10s of thousands of splitters. And only a fraction of that number for splitters. So splitters are definitely a lot more performance hungry than splitters." Are you sure your computer is the only thing dealing with performance issues from this abomination? :)
With regards to sorter-based "splitters"/bus: ... this is why pros still deep into late game use the yellow/green/blue sorters. This allows to split traffic in a more balanced way.
I feel like DSP needs to add a post-game research that lets you build a new planet, though I realize that's probably not possible with the game engine. A higher tier building to make those photons would be nice though, something collected from the Dark Swarm would make a lot of sense.
If you have the hydrogen byproduct as your main hydrogen line and the side load the hydrogen from the import tower. That way it will always use the byproduct hydrogen first and supplement as needed with the imported hydrogen
That was how I run it first and the system clogged. The fire ice arrived last and got clogged somehow which is why I added the crates. Will have to see how the new builds shake out.
Blue giants only having 3 planets is why it often worth considering using your highest luminosity 5 planet system instead. More expensive, but does let you get more power in total out of one sphere. (Multi layers to make up for the smaller size).
In theory that sounds good but I'm trying to imagine anyone spending 2.4 TW of power 3 times over is crazy hard. Never mind 5 times over. Unless they are spending most of the power on site directly in which case you need a lot less power. I figure 1 TW should be more than enough for the vast majority.
@@FrancisJohnYT True~ It's very much a "heres how to get a bigger silly number" if people were running it on super computers trying to max out white science. There is/was one genuine use for larger systems though, it didn't use more ray recivers on the extra planets, but instead made science, in efforts to minimise the amount of ships warping around by making black-box-ish solar systems. I do want to say the ships warping around are a lot less heavy on the CPU then when I last played though~
In Factorio, the speed of science consumption is dependent on what is being researched. I think that's also true in DSP. You might need to look at the science screen to see how fast it processes hashes for any particular science One idea with the proliferate (assuming you can find the space) is to feed each of the different belts of proliferate from a different output on the ILS. Finally, you might be able to trim the 'start' edge of the pizza slice down by relocating some of the smelters (iron, copper and such) up the wedge to live alongside the artificial suns.
IIRC, items on belts will not enter IPLs when the IPL has what is requested. I.e when you set the IPL to 10k hydrogen, and it has those 10k hydrogen, then may still back up. To prevent this, you can top up the hydrogen belt from the graphene by sideloading it from the IPL, that will make sure, that the graphene hydrogen is ALWAYS used up first, and only empty belt spots will be sideloaded from the IPL with extra hydrogen. Hope that makes sense ;-)
I tried the side loading thing and the system still backed up 😕 so that is why I switched to the box system. I think the backup was exclusive to boot up because the hydrogen arrived way before the fire ice. Will have to see when we stamp down multiple copies.
@@FrancisJohnYT Mhhh, I guess thats because there is quite some buffer on the belts to fill up the graphene, i.e. if the hydrogen doesn't get consumed soon enough you still need the extra boxes. Makes sense :)
Ok, power is a non-issue for you. But, fyi, the dark fog lab and the regular matrix lab have the same hash-production rate, so you are "wasting" power on the shiny self-evolution labs. They are really great for cube production, though! In my experience, you should collect produced hydrogen from fire-ice, raw oil and critical photons in two separate places for red science and casimir crystals. Then use pile-sorters to add lacking hydrogen from your ILS-towers onto either line. It will probably be fine the way you solved it, but being above the limit set in the ILS-inventory also stops in-flow from belts. So, you "only" have the time from the ILS requesting a batch of hydrogen until it actually arrives, to empty your back-logged storage. When the new hydrogen arrives, it again puts inventory above the limit and also blocks inflow from backlog-storage. If you want an easy fix to stay below 10 blocks width of your black-box-pizza-slice, you could utilize the polar part of your slice where you have your artificial stars to accomodate most of the labs, critical photons and some of the mini-particle-colliders. Also: I'm slightly miffed that you did not include either save-file or blueprint!
We are full end game tech so carrying basic labs feels like a wasted slot. The hydrogen will stop when it hits the limit but it will not request more until the storage box is empty. The tower empties via a single belt stacked 4 high, the boxes fill it via a single belt stacked 4 high 😁 hope I explained that ok. Will have a save game file up soon just need to tweak this a tiny bit first.
if your pc keep crashing in dyson. and some app stop responding. and you have a 13 or 14 gen intel cpu. that might be the cause. they were eating themself until a major bios update release last end of summer. (youtube search Thor Intel for hes short video on the subjet)
You can connect belts to storage units when they aren't on ground level, but it's gotta be the same level as the bottom of that storage unit. It looked like the belt was slightly too high. This doesn't work on liquid tanks which I find annoying.
Curious if you would get some frames back if you disable drops from the fog you don't need (e.g. soil pile). Might knock down a bit of that combat system if you only leave on the small number of drops you really care about.
Will give it a go, but gains should be minor as drops disappear after a small period. According to the stats page the factory and Dyson spheres are the big drain.
Try disabling "C States" in the BIOS- The DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION is what I got when my Ryzen 5950x failed... NB: WARNING: ITS DEGENERATIVE! mine went from "stuff happens" to "It crashes immediately" over the course of a year. AND: Disabling C-States isn't a fix- its just a test for that specific issue.
Computing the vein utilitisation percentage you need to effectively reach infinite resources (asumming all resources go into vein utilisation research) sounds like a fun maths puzzle, but I'm not sure it'd actually be infinite, just larger than any reasonable amount (like, thousands of hours to accomplish without lag). It would be cool to see how much research you need to one-shot a hive, however.
If you don't ever research anything other than veins utilization, and you don't spend resources on anything but research, resources are actually infinite. The cost of science goes up linearly, but the resource gain from a single level of veins utilization goes up exponentially. You quickly hit a point where doing one research adds more effective resources to patches you are mining than it cost to research.
Francis, a tip for hydrogen. Instead of buffering it in boxes (or tanks) feed the belt from the oil/fire ice directly into the casimir crystals. Top that belt up with hydrogen from gas giants. Feed that from the ILS either by feeding the belt from the side or (better) using a pile sorter to stack the belt to 4 high. Nice use of pile sorters to substitute for splitters. Your frames will love you.
updating to windows 11 as you did should fix that problem, it's a known issue that on windows 10 when connecting on certain machines to certain networks it will randomly give a blue screen with the stop code DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION. I've had the same problem myself, there is likely a good reason why, but I've just gone with the, updating to 11 fixes it approach
So u stoped building the dyson sphere? U wanne leave it unfinished? Hmm dont know about it. Just for ocd purpose could u try with Just a few solar sail Canons to finish the dyson sphere please?
Francis you should take the solar sails that are not attached to the Dyson sphere into account because the amount of energy is not only the dyson sphere but also the free sails so you actually have 7.5 TW minus the amount of energy from the unattached sails
You can just stop proliferating the sail launchers. Why would you not just feed the hydrogen byproduct directly into the consumers and have tower output sideload onto it? You can load boxes up high with sorters. But only if its the exact same hight. Sadly it only fills the boxes up high not low. I tried that for a buffer system for high amount of foundation and solar sails. ua-cam.com/video/N4J8RBhwcfQ/v-deo.html What is that one sorter doing there? Unless im mistakes an AMF lasts exactly 50 seconds no? 144MW and 7200MJ
What an absolutely wnk game. If I had bought it I'd be suing for a refund. You get anywhere close to completing the game, the no computer on the planet could ever run it. It's a scam.
För frame of reference here, Francis could have completed the game ages ago. He's purposely going out of his way to make a mega base and the largest Dyson sphere possible which even required us scouring for seeds. As someone who's played the game myself, you can easily beat it without encountering performance problems. But Franic here is going above and beyond what most players ever would build by orders of magnitude.
@@echodot759 Indeed! Well said, and I'd pay money to see Nilaus load this save and have his brain melt over the complexity of Francis' Blackbox builds!
Francis please send this save to the devs. The kind of data they could glean from something like this for optimization purposes can't be understated.
It's so cool to see that this is process optimisation 1:1 how it occurs in the real world. Really nice watching you figure out the different levels of bottle necks while getting down to efficiency details like item time spent on bus. I really enjoyed this episode :) (edit: so far, only on minute 19)
If only there was this much room for error in the real world
the next update is supposed to add space platforms, so that means you will be able to use the entirety of the dyson sphere, so you might as well build it entirely now unless you wanna make a whole nother series
When the update expected to drop? I would delay my next playthrough for it.
Hydrogen stacks to 20/slot in storage, or (IIRC) 600 per small box. Fluid storage holds 10K per storage, and should fit in the same space.
Your spreadsheets and data analysis are disasters, and I can't stop watching.
The Saving test is actually something different then you thought.
It has nothing to do with "Ram" but the actual safefile.
So your DSP save is 700MB big.
The reason they have that there is to ensure saving is done as quick as possible so something like in Oxygen not included doesn't happen.
Because lategame it gets stuck for a few seconds trying to save.
(On top of that to reduce file size since a few backups of a multigig savefile is really bad... You want it as small as possible)
Really nice video Francis. I enjoyed the part were you found out what was wrong in your blackbox design. Ty for amazing content 😊
The consumption rate of matrices for research depends on the research. Each research costs a specific total number of hashes, and a specific total number of matrices. A lab will produce X hashes/second, and it will consume matrices at X/total number of hashes * total number of that matrix.
If, for example, a research needed 1000 hashes to complete, and 100 science cubes, a lab producing 100 hashes/second would consume 10 cubes/second
Francis, in regards to losing footage et cetera: Get a separate computer for recording, so that your primary computer is only used for the game at hand. It doesn't even need to be especially powerful, either, though you'll want as large a storage device as you can fit in it for a decent price.
The stars in Galaxy view with petawatt generation are made with various shenanigans, just so you know. Others will know the details of how it's done.
Do you mean like cheaty shenanigans or like glitchy shenanigans?
@@lappr0 Cheaty. Like modding in an instant sphere that collects all the power and then some. (Edit: it may even be easier than that, just editing the save file to say they're getting that much power.)
"We're using 10s of thousands of splitters. And only a fraction of that number for splitters. So splitters are definitely a lot more performance hungry than splitters."
Are you sure your computer is the only thing dealing with performance issues from this abomination? :)
My brain may be a bit sore from the black box designs. They are great when they work but they hurt to design.
"300 science black block builds per Hellraiser"
As a person who likes to invent unit measures, I'm proud of this sentence.
With regards to sorter-based "splitters"/bus: ... this is why pros still deep into late game use the yellow/green/blue sorters. This allows to split traffic in a more balanced way.
there's something mesmerizing watching the belts move in the opposite direction as their arrows
Submit your save to the devs (if they'll accept it) :)
Maybe they can fix any performance issues you're having.
I feel like DSP needs to add a post-game research that lets you build a new planet, though I realize that's probably not possible with the game engine. A higher tier building to make those photons would be nice though, something collected from the Dark Swarm would make a lot of sense.
Well I think we have enough landfill to make that planet.
If you have the hydrogen byproduct as your main hydrogen line and the side load the hydrogen from the import tower. That way it will always use the byproduct hydrogen first and supplement as needed with the imported hydrogen
That was how I run it first and the system clogged. The fire ice arrived last and got clogged somehow which is why I added the crates. Will have to see how the new builds shake out.
Blue giants only having 3 planets is why it often worth considering using your highest luminosity 5 planet system instead. More expensive, but does let you get more power in total out of one sphere. (Multi layers to make up for the smaller size).
In theory that sounds good but I'm trying to imagine anyone spending 2.4 TW of power 3 times over is crazy hard. Never mind 5 times over. Unless they are spending most of the power on site directly in which case you need a lot less power. I figure 1 TW should be more than enough for the vast majority.
@@FrancisJohnYT True~ It's very much a "heres how to get a bigger silly number" if people were running it on super computers trying to max out white science.
There is/was one genuine use for larger systems though, it didn't use more ray recivers on the extra planets, but instead made science, in efforts to minimise the amount of ships warping around by making black-box-ish solar systems.
I do want to say the ships warping around are a lot less heavy on the CPU then when I last played though~
13:05 All you have to do is unleash your inner factorio spaghetti spirit. Let it loose....
still want to see whole star covered by sphere
The petawatts guy is playing on a datacenter 😂
That can't be real right! Would need several supercomputers strapped together along with a nuclear power plant to make it work.
10:55 are my eyes deceiving me, or is the conveyor belt animations going backwards?
Pretty sure the 'backwards' animation is just simulating moving 'forwards' faster than the eye can track, just like helicopter blades.
@@r3dp9 If it was faster than your eyes could track, it would be a blur, the apparent backward motion is because of frame rate.
In Factorio, the speed of science consumption is dependent on what is being researched. I think that's also true in DSP. You might need to look at the science screen to see how fast it processes hashes for any particular science
One idea with the proliferate (assuming you can find the space) is to feed each of the different belts of proliferate from a different output on the ILS.
Finally, you might be able to trim the 'start' edge of the pizza slice down by relocating some of the smelters (iron, copper and such) up the wedge to live alongside the artificial suns.
Ohhh if we moved the photon Splitters above the line it would save space and be a quick refit.
Still got a missing output inserter/sorter on that assembler that didn't have the input one.
IIRC, items on belts will not enter IPLs when the IPL has what is requested. I.e when you set the IPL to 10k hydrogen, and it has those 10k hydrogen, then may still back up. To prevent this, you can top up the hydrogen belt from the graphene by sideloading it from the IPL, that will make sure, that the graphene hydrogen is ALWAYS used up first, and only empty belt spots will be sideloaded from the IPL with extra hydrogen.
Hope that makes sense ;-)
I tried the side loading thing and the system still backed up 😕 so that is why I switched to the box system. I think the backup was exclusive to boot up because the hydrogen arrived way before the fire ice. Will have to see when we stamp down multiple copies.
@@FrancisJohnYT Mhhh, I guess thats because there is quite some buffer on the belts to fill up the graphene, i.e. if the hydrogen doesn't get consumed soon enough you still need the extra boxes. Makes sense :)
Store the hydrogen in liquid tanks. Much more efficient
holy energy!
Ok, power is a non-issue for you. But, fyi, the dark fog lab and the regular matrix lab have the same hash-production rate, so you are "wasting" power on the shiny self-evolution labs. They are really great for cube production, though!
In my experience, you should collect produced hydrogen from fire-ice, raw oil and critical photons in two separate places for red science and casimir crystals. Then use pile-sorters to add lacking hydrogen from your ILS-towers onto either line. It will probably be fine the way you solved it, but being above the limit set in the ILS-inventory also stops in-flow from belts. So, you "only" have the time from the ILS requesting a batch of hydrogen until it actually arrives, to empty your back-logged storage. When the new hydrogen arrives, it again puts inventory above the limit and also blocks inflow from backlog-storage.
If you want an easy fix to stay below 10 blocks width of your black-box-pizza-slice, you could utilize the polar part of your slice where you have your artificial stars to accomodate most of the labs, critical photons and some of the mini-particle-colliders. Also: I'm slightly miffed that you did not include either save-file or blueprint!
We are full end game tech so carrying basic labs feels like a wasted slot. The hydrogen will stop when it hits the limit but it will not request more until the storage box is empty. The tower empties via a single belt stacked 4 high, the boxes fill it via a single belt stacked 4 high 😁 hope I explained that ok. Will have a save game file up soon just need to tweak this a tiny bit first.
if your pc keep crashing in dyson. and some app stop responding. and you have a 13 or 14 gen intel cpu. that might be the cause. they were eating themself until a major bios update release last end of summer. (youtube search Thor Intel for hes short video on the subjet)
He is using a an AMD Ryzen 9 5900X, fortunately avoiding the intel issue. You can find his computer specs in the channel info
You can connect belts to storage units when they aren't on ground level, but it's gotta be the same level as the bottom of that storage unit. It looked like the belt was slightly too high. This doesn't work on liquid tanks which I find annoying.
Curious if you would get some frames back if you disable drops from the fog you don't need (e.g. soil pile). Might knock down a bit of that combat system if you only leave on the small number of drops you really care about.
Will give it a go, but gains should be minor as drops disappear after a small period. According to the stats page the factory and Dyson spheres are the big drain.
37:28 Cameo! I'm 2nd behind FJ small universe...........
Try disabling "C States" in the BIOS- The DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION is what I got when my Ryzen 5950x failed... NB: WARNING: ITS DEGENERATIVE! mine went from "stuff happens" to "It crashes immediately" over the course of a year. AND: Disabling C-States isn't a fix- its just a test for that specific issue.
Computing the vein utilitisation percentage you need to effectively reach infinite resources (asumming all resources go into vein utilisation research) sounds like a fun maths puzzle, but I'm not sure it'd actually be infinite, just larger than any reasonable amount (like, thousands of hours to accomplish without lag). It would be cool to see how much research you need to one-shot a hive, however.
If you don't ever research anything other than veins utilization, and you don't spend resources on anything but research, resources are actually infinite. The cost of science goes up linearly, but the resource gain from a single level of veins utilization goes up exponentially. You quickly hit a point where doing one research adds more effective resources to patches you are mining than it cost to research.
Would be cool to see you do an optimised run with all your new blue prints and lessons learned
Ah a new one for when I get home after work. =)
Francis, a tip for hydrogen.
Instead of buffering it in boxes (or tanks) feed the belt from the oil/fire ice directly into the casimir crystals. Top that belt up with hydrogen from gas giants. Feed that from the ILS either by feeding the belt from the side or (better) using a pile sorter to stack the belt to 4 high.
Nice use of pile sorters to substitute for splitters. Your frames will love you.
your so good man
I wonder if there's a mod that makes the sails connect as soon as they're launched (teleport) to avoid the performance hit.
Anyone know?
updating to windows 11 as you did should fix that problem, it's a known issue that on windows 10 when connecting on certain machines to certain networks it will randomly give a blue screen with the stop code DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION. I've had the same problem myself, there is likely a good reason why, but I've just gone with the, updating to 11 fixes it approach
Or rather than wiping your whole system, just remove and install your graphics and network(wifi and ethernet) drivers
So u stoped building the dyson sphere? U wanne leave it unfinished? Hmm dont know about it. Just for ocd purpose could u try with Just a few solar sail Canons to finish the dyson sphere please?
27:20 Oh... so many good designs were lost to reflexive 'x' + Shift...
Francis, have you made the Dark Fog fuel yet?
Francis you should take the solar sails that are not attached to the Dyson sphere into account because the amount of energy is not only the dyson sphere but also the free sails so you actually have 7.5 TW minus the amount of energy from the unattached sails
I don't think it can be called schadenfreude if you're also enjoying your own suffering and misery you put yourself in.
is your save file as big as the game itself yet?
Those hydrogen waste products really cause an itch under my nails, I want to adjust it, find a better more satisfying solution.
See my comment above.
Essentially: waste hydrogen used up first, topped up with gas giant hydrogen.
I’m a freak for hydrogen-neutral builds.
Pointless comment
You can just stop proliferating the sail launchers.
Why would you not just feed the hydrogen byproduct directly into the consumers
and have tower output sideload onto it?
You can load boxes up high with sorters.
But only if its the exact same hight.
Sadly it only fills the boxes up high not low.
I tried that for a buffer system for high amount of foundation and solar sails.
ua-cam.com/video/N4J8RBhwcfQ/v-deo.html
What is that one sorter doing there?
Unless im mistakes an AMF lasts exactly 50 seconds no?
144MW and 7200MJ
Ahh, an i9 overclocked does wonders... You should try it ;)
(Remember to get a good cooling solution...)
What an absolutely wnk game. If I had bought it I'd be suing for a refund. You get anywhere close to completing the game, the no computer on the planet could ever run it. It's a scam.
För frame of reference here, Francis could have completed the game ages ago. He's purposely going out of his way to make a mega base and the largest Dyson sphere possible which even required us scouring for seeds.
As someone who's played the game myself, you can easily beat it without encountering performance problems. But Franic here is going above and beyond what most players ever would build by orders of magnitude.
@@echodot759 Indeed! Well said, and I'd pay money to see Nilaus load this save and have his brain melt over the complexity of Francis' Blackbox builds!