Thank you! I am not sure how to make more views happen but i appreciate the sentiment…… maybe my thumbnails need work? Haha. Will keeep churning away….
@@secretsauceofstorycraft A channel with book reviews has to take on all the clickbait videos. Then there is the almighty algorithm, which has to "like" the content. In the long run, however, quality prevails and always finds its audience. Channels like yours contribute a lot to making people want to read (again), and I think that's great.
Your thoughts on first contact make me think of historical examples such as colonialism and civil rights. Science fiction works as a metaphor to our human condition. Excellent video. Look forward to more.
Of all the Science Fiction Alliance's responses to The Sparrow, I like yours most. The combination of all the responses convinced me it's one I can skip. But your vid asked some great questions, and answered them with some great alternative reads. Double bonus points for mentioning Embassytown again! Everyone should read it.
What a great video. Have thought all of these and still ponder all of these. First contact is my favorite trope. So the thoughts go on..... Will we ever face the situation????
This was a very interesting video. Exploring such ideas can lead to so many conclusions. I just finished the Three Body Problem and it dealt with your scenario in a different way. Have you read it? It was a pretty good book and I'm about 50 pages into the dark forest now. I've thought about this topic a little and imagined the resources it would take to create and sustain interstellar travel. This would bring up what would make a species use so many resources to acquire it. The three body problem is not a scenario we ever want to deal with. Thanks for the great video
Yes i have read three body, but i need to get into dark forest! I almost put three body in this vid but i thought it might be too spoilery… thanks for watching!
Thank for your interesting discussion of the issues involved in first contact. You may want to check Chad Oliver. He was an anthropology professor who wrote SF back in the ‘50s and ‘60s. His work has been called “anthropological SF”, most of it dealing with first contact and clashes between cultures. Beautifully written, contemplative and often elegiac-well worth looking into.
Thank you so much for your video and your thoughts! You are really thorough and clear in everything you say. I’ve been holding my breath all along (literally to the end) and had so many cool ideas as it went along. ^^ I’m not really a big reader/chatter as I don’t have the emotional energy/discipline right now, although one day, I’m keeping hope! Here’s ideas I’ve started while watching (you’ve talked about everything in your video as I was writing, although I kept it for fun and to compare our thoughts) : That’s a really interesting idea! If I wanted to communicate with ants that live in my room’s ant house, I would study ants as much as possible and try to create complex messages with simple understandable elements in their house. Basically guide them to more peace, resources and potential mutations/changes that can lead them to even better understanding. Probably guide them with food, house engineering and other fun stuff. I think it is inevitable, if I had an infinite amount of time and they’ve never really evolved after millions of years, I’d be tempted to help these ants, although always in this indirect way, until they’re ready to understand me fully, that is. They’d probably suspect something is going on, however as long as they’re not going over the “scared” edge they’ll just keep accepting the irresistible help without asking too many questions. I’d ideally practice in a controlled environment before helping though. Maybe super smart aliens think the same? It’d probably be out of loneliness or curiosity though, as I can’t really understand any other reason to do this.
Fun and insightful. I like how u made it personal… thank you! This made my friday night 🤩 And dont worry you dont have to be a big reader- its just fun to think about stuff and have discussions
Very thoughtful appraisal of the concept, I was reminded of the movie The Day the Earth Stood Still ( the old one). How fear causes us to misinterpret first contact and effects our reactions.
This is a fascinating analysis of a complex and central subject in SF. The way you split up the chapters really helps with processing all the nuances of the topics, and I love that you go in depth by referencing examples in a wide variety of books. Feel free to ignore my one criticism, but the way many pictures and clips are so frequently edited into this video is jarring and distracting to me. You're a very engaging and evocative speaker so I end up scrolling down to the comments so that I can focus on your voice, and I wish I didn't have to. I appreciate your content regardless!
I thank you for your kind words- even the criticisms help me to get better. Thanks for taking the time. Havent decided what I will do next but I am thinking…
This seems right up my alley! Btw thanks for recommending Qualityland. I’m currently reading it, and loving every page! Your recs are always top notch!
Science Fiction Alliance : Smaller logo. More Whitney/Matt. Great content. First Contact: No one ever mentions The Andromeda Strain by Michael Crichton which turned "the invasion" on it's head.
It depends on the individual. And it depends on what you call selfish. Good actions may carry some elements of selfishness, but that doesn't turn them into bad actions. Like I said: they're good action, as in beneficial for all parties involved. I'm not here speaking about governments, although it would be wrong to assume that all of them from past, present and future would necessarily seek the first contact with evil intentions. I'm speaking about individuals. So what I can do is speak for myself: first contact means knowing other living beings, how they are, how their world is like and what they know about the universe. Provided they are interested in sharing all of this, of course. And then using this knowledge for the benefit of humanity in case it would be beneficial at all. It could be useless, but that doesn't render the contact useless. At least we gave it a shot. It would be worse to not even try something that could be great for mankind. But, as we know, these decision would probably be made collectively. From both sides. Considering these circunstances, it's not impossible to be done ethically. Which does not mean that in real life they would be made ethically. Therefore, I don't see first contact as a bad thing by itself, even if there are elements of selfishness. Aliens could be interested in our knowledge too. And if we want them to share, we should be willing to share too. The only bad outcome would come, of course, from the evil doers. If there are evil parties involved, as in trying to take away something from the other and give nothing back, that could mean the end of one of the species. So bare in mind that totally selfish interest is not just bad, since it involves harm: it's more stupid than any human can be. Like stupid as having an IQ equivalent to zero.
I saw an interview of the author, Mary Doria Russell, who said she wrote this book at a time that Columbus was receiving such flack about his contact with the people of the Americas. She also said there is a sequel, CHILDREN OF GOD, which presents the point of view of the peoples contacted. The interview was interesting.
I read a little of the plot (CHEATER!) and I don't know if I'm going to read this, but I appreciate your valiant attempt to trick me into reading Intergalactic Gimp Suit (the lesser known alternative title). Thanks for the video!
@Secret Sauce of Storycraft I will, I will. All these scifi book channels have really stoked the fire for me. How many books did I read when I was a kid? I don't like to brag, but I had zero friends. So, ALL the books.
I just saw Michael's video and commented that you two needed to do a video discussion about it. He said you had considered it. I think it would really be interesting to get a perspective on your views and the way they might differ.
Almost the entire SFA did a sparrow inspired vid today- mike and i almost did a dicussion video because we had such a good conversation when we chatted about it- but it gets into lots of opinions and probably isnt very PC… 😆
Interesting topic. What about the diseases that we have that they may never have been exposed to. How many indigenous people were infected and dies from diseases that those who came were immune to? Or vice versa.
After your video I came across a first contact novel by Jack McDevitt Village in the Sky. Interesting premise they don't just encounter 1 first contact but multiples. A little slow in the beginning mostly because these characters have been in other books and it took me a while to care about them.
Ive been meaning to get into jack mcdevitt although ive heard talent of war is his best….. i own moonfall. But i will have to go through more of his backlist. I wonder if I should start with some of the earlier books in the series?? Will do some research!
@@secretsauceofstorycraft This was part of the Alex Benedict series, and I wish I had read some of the earlier ones first. McDevitt assumed people would have knowledge of the main characters and it took me quite a while to get a sense of who they were as people.
This book had a great effect on me. I went to Jesuit prep school and University. I read this book not long after it came out, when I was fresh out of college. It's one of those rare books that I intentionally avoid re-reading, because I don't want the cynic I've become ruin the experience of the first read. It's an example of how your receptiveness to a book can be impacted by your worldview and experience. Looking back, I can see how one of the author's themes may be the inherent selfishness of the evangelizing spirit, for which they paid dearly.
Great vid I have not read this but do have it ans was told it very good first contact novel, Alan Dean Foster Nor crystal tears it belongs to a big series but was to can be read as stand alone
I enjoyed your video, but there's one topic no one seem to ever mention, viruses and germs in general. If they created such havoc in our own planet in the past, same spices to same spices, or close to it, as race is real no matter what libs tell you, I can't stress enough how devastating it could be on an interplanetary level. Yeah, I know, positivity is my strength 😅
I actually agree with you- i cant think of a book that addresses that- but i guess the plot of a alien plague wiping out humanity makes for a poor plot?? Do you know of any?
@@secretsauceofstorycraft Not really, other than War of the Worlds I don't seem to remember any other sci-fi tale addressing the issue, and in my youth, I'm 45, I read tons of sci-fi, from the '50s to contemporary. Anyhow, as you mentioned it might simply be because it wouldn't make for an interesting enough plot, killing characters before even developing them, and I totally understand if that's the case. I mean, I can think of different ways of incorporating the subject, but it would make for a rather "scientific sci-fi" story that could get boring pretty fast, so yes, I guess that is probably why it's basically unheard of. Covenant (Alien) touched it though, with the black spores infecting the crew, but that was David's doing, so not exactly the same. What I actually really find strange, is the lack of the subject in mainstream science, as it seems scientists always find a million excuses for the lack of alien contact, except this one, which is possibly the most probable if aliens are truly observing us from their 🛸.. Edit: oh, and thanks for replying 👍🏻🖤
your channel needs more views. I like your videos which often have an interesting, slightly different approach than the usual book reviews.
Thank you! I am not sure how to make more views happen but i appreciate the sentiment…… maybe my thumbnails need work? Haha. Will keeep churning away….
@@secretsauceofstorycraft A channel with book reviews has to take on all the clickbait videos. Then there is the almighty algorithm, which has to "like" the content. In the long run, however, quality prevails and always finds its audience. Channels like yours contribute a lot to making people want to read (again), and I think that's great.
Your thoughts on first contact make me think of historical examples such as colonialism and civil rights. Science fiction works as a metaphor to our human condition. Excellent video. Look forward to more.
Thank you! I agree about these books being a metaphor for colonialism and civil rights and so many more! Its what i love about scifi!
Great video!
Thanks!
What an interesting perspective. Great video.
Thanks girl!
Very well done! It's interesting how first concact has become such a philosophical issue!
Thank u! I think so too!! Are you by chance the author of automaton?
@@secretsauceofstorycraft I am!
Of all the Science Fiction Alliance's responses to The Sparrow, I like yours most. The combination of all the responses convinced me it's one I can skip. But your vid asked some great questions, and answered them with some great alternative reads. Double bonus points for mentioning Embassytown again! Everyone should read it.
Aww thats so kind! And yes embassytown should b required reading!
First contact is my favourite trope and these kind of questions are some of the reasons. Thank you for an interesting video!
You are welcome! Thanks for watching
What a great video. Have thought all of these and still ponder all of these. First contact is my favorite trope. So the thoughts go on.....
Will we ever face the situation????
I hope so, but its a fun discussion either way!
This was a very interesting video. Exploring such ideas can lead to so many conclusions. I just finished the Three Body Problem and it dealt with your scenario in a different way. Have you read it? It was a pretty good book and I'm about 50 pages into the dark forest now. I've thought about this topic a little and imagined the resources it would take to create and sustain interstellar travel. This would bring up what would make a species use so many resources to acquire it. The three body problem is not a scenario we ever want to deal with. Thanks for the great video
Yes i have read three body, but i need to get into dark forest! I almost put three body in this vid but i thought it might be too spoilery… thanks for watching!
Thank for your interesting discussion of the issues involved in first contact. You may want to check Chad Oliver. He was an anthropology professor who wrote SF back in the ‘50s and ‘60s. His work has been called “anthropological SF”, most of it dealing with first contact and clashes between cultures. Beautifully written, contemplative and often elegiac-well worth looking into.
Hmm 🧐 never heard of him. I will check it out thanks!!
Thank you so much for your video and your thoughts! You are really thorough and clear in everything you say. I’ve been holding my breath all along (literally to the end) and had so many cool ideas as it went along. ^^
I’m not really a big reader/chatter as I don’t have the emotional energy/discipline right now, although one day, I’m keeping hope!
Here’s ideas I’ve started while watching (you’ve talked about everything in your video as I was writing, although I kept it for fun and to compare our thoughts) :
That’s a really interesting idea! If I wanted to communicate with ants that live in my room’s ant house, I would study ants as much as possible and try to create complex messages with simple understandable elements in their house. Basically guide them to more peace, resources and potential mutations/changes that can lead them to even better understanding. Probably guide them with food, house engineering and other fun stuff. I think it is inevitable, if I had an infinite amount of time and they’ve never really evolved after millions of years, I’d be tempted to help these ants, although always in this indirect way, until they’re ready to understand me fully, that is. They’d probably suspect something is going on, however as long as they’re not going over the “scared” edge they’ll just keep accepting the irresistible help without asking too many questions. I’d ideally practice in a controlled environment before helping though. Maybe super smart aliens think the same? It’d probably be out of loneliness or curiosity though, as I can’t really understand any other reason to do this.
Fun and insightful. I like how u made it personal… thank you! This made my friday night 🤩 And dont worry you dont have to be a big reader- its just fun to think about stuff and have discussions
Very thoughtful appraisal of the concept, I was reminded of the movie The Day the Earth Stood Still ( the old one). How fear causes us to misinterpret first contact and effects our reactions.
I will have to watch it- they recently redid it didnt they??
@@secretsauceofstorycraft The original was late 50s early 60s I believe the remake was the early 2000s but I could be wrong
This is a fascinating analysis of a complex and central subject in SF. The way you split up the chapters really helps with processing all the nuances of the topics, and I love that you go in depth by referencing examples in a wide variety of books. Feel free to ignore my one criticism, but the way many pictures and clips are so frequently edited into this video is jarring and distracting to me. You're a very engaging and evocative speaker so I end up scrolling down to the comments so that I can focus on your voice, and I wish I didn't have to. I appreciate your content regardless!
I thank you for your kind words- even the criticisms help me to get better. Thanks for taking the time. Havent decided what I will do next but I am thinking…
This seems right up my alley! Btw thanks for recommending Qualityland. I’m currently reading it, and loving every page! Your recs are always top notch!
Oh yay!!! That book needs more love!
@@secretsauceofstorycraft yes!! I hope book 2 gets a translation too. I can’t get enough of this book.
@@ancv65 🤗hi. If you like Marc-Uwe Kling's books, read his Kangaroo Chronicles to tide you over. Greetings from Berlin, Andy
@@amatsubuu4262 thanks for the suggestion!
Such a thought provoking video👍
Science Fiction Alliance : Smaller logo. More Whitney/Matt. Great content.
First Contact:
No one ever mentions The Andromeda Strain by Michael Crichton which turned "the invasion" on it's head.
Coincidentally matt and i did a vid together but i havent edited it yet… but soon!!!
It depends on the individual. And it depends on what you call selfish. Good actions may carry some elements of selfishness, but that doesn't turn them into bad actions. Like I said: they're good action, as in beneficial for all parties involved.
I'm not here speaking about governments, although it would be wrong to assume that all of them from past, present and future would necessarily seek the first contact with evil intentions.
I'm speaking about individuals. So what I can do is speak for myself: first contact means knowing other living beings, how they are, how their world is like and what they know about the universe. Provided they are interested in sharing all of this, of course. And then using this knowledge for the benefit of humanity in case it would be beneficial at all. It could be useless, but that doesn't render the contact useless. At least we gave it a shot. It would be worse to not even try something that could be great for mankind.
But, as we know, these decision would probably be made collectively. From both sides. Considering these circunstances, it's not impossible to be done ethically. Which does not mean that in real life they would be made ethically.
Therefore, I don't see first contact as a bad thing by itself, even if there are elements of selfishness. Aliens could be interested in our knowledge too. And if we want them to share, we should be willing to share too.
The only bad outcome would come, of course, from the evil doers. If there are evil parties involved, as in trying to take away something from the other and give nothing back, that could mean the end of one of the species.
So bare in mind that totally selfish interest is not just bad, since it involves harm: it's more stupid than any human can be. Like stupid as having an IQ equivalent to zero.
Very interesting to see how each of you in the SF Alliance handles this.
Agreed! Its been fun
I saw an interview of the author, Mary Doria Russell, who said she wrote this book at a time that Columbus was receiving such flack about his contact with the people of the Americas. She also said there is a sequel, CHILDREN OF GOD, which presents the point of view of the peoples contacted. The interview was interesting.
I read a little of the plot (CHEATER!) and I don't know if I'm going to read this, but I appreciate your valiant attempt to trick me into reading Intergalactic Gimp Suit (the lesser known alternative title). Thanks for the video!
Hahaha😝! No tricks I swear…. But there are other books in the video you could read instead 😎
@Secret Sauce of Storycraft I will, I will. All these scifi book channels have really stoked the fire for me. How many books did I read when I was a kid? I don't like to brag, but I had zero friends. So, ALL the books.
@@Cmdtheartist best quote: “ALL the books!” 😎 i still dont have that many friends- its hard to make friends, eap when you wanna talk about scifi!
Lets figure it out when or if it happens and get on with better things to worry about.
Fair!
I just saw Michael's video and commented that you two needed to do a video discussion about it. He said you had considered it. I think it would really be interesting to get a perspective on your views and the way they might differ.
Almost the entire SFA did a sparrow inspired vid today- mike and i almost did a dicussion video because we had such a good conversation when we chatted about it- but it gets into lots of opinions and probably isnt very PC… 😆
Interesting topic. What about the diseases that we have that they may never have been exposed to. How many indigenous people were infected and dies from diseases that those who came were immune to? Or vice versa.
I agree!! It would b interesting to have first contact then lots of people get sick from plague aliens carry (or vice versa!)
That is part of the story in Sparrow
After your video I came across a first contact novel by Jack McDevitt Village in the Sky. Interesting premise they don't just encounter 1 first contact but multiples. A little slow in the beginning mostly because these characters have been in other books and it took me a while to care about them.
Ive been meaning to get into jack mcdevitt although ive heard talent of war is his best….. i own moonfall. But i will have to go through more of his backlist. I wonder if I should start with some of the earlier books in the series?? Will do some research!
@@secretsauceofstorycraft This was part of the Alex Benedict series, and I wish I had read some of the earlier ones first. McDevitt assumed people would have knowledge of the main characters and it took me quite a while to get a sense of who they were as people.
12:42 What is that scene/picture from? I’d like that as a print.
It is from a site i get b roll from… its not from a show or video game sadly. If u want i can try to find link…
This book had a great effect on me. I went to Jesuit prep school and University. I read this book not long after it came out, when I was fresh out of college. It's one of those rare books that I intentionally avoid re-reading, because I don't want the cynic I've become ruin the experience of the first read. It's an example of how your receptiveness to a book can be impacted by your worldview and experience. Looking back, I can see how one of the author's themes may be the inherent selfishness of the evangelizing spirit, for which they paid dearly.
Haha 😂 i enjoy your candid admission- i also have fav books that I intentionally dont want to reread in case I dont love it as much…..
Great vid I have not read this but do have it ans was told it very good first contact novel, Alan Dean Foster Nor crystal tears it belongs to a big series but was to can be read as stand alone
Have read the follow up on the sparrow ?
No but I plan to next week!!
I enjoyed your video, but there's one topic no one seem to ever mention, viruses and germs in general. If they created such havoc in our own planet in the past, same spices to same spices, or close to it, as race is real no matter what libs tell you, I can't stress enough how devastating it could be on an interplanetary level. Yeah, I know, positivity is my strength 😅
I actually agree with you- i cant think of a book that addresses that- but i guess the plot of a alien plague wiping out humanity makes for a poor plot?? Do you know of any?
@@secretsauceofstorycraft Not really, other than War of the Worlds I don't seem to remember any other sci-fi tale addressing the issue, and in my youth, I'm 45, I read tons of sci-fi, from the '50s to contemporary. Anyhow, as you mentioned it might simply be because it wouldn't make for an interesting enough plot, killing characters before even developing them, and I totally understand if that's the case. I mean, I can think of different ways of incorporating the subject, but it would make for a rather "scientific sci-fi" story that could get boring pretty fast, so yes, I guess that is probably why it's basically unheard of. Covenant (Alien) touched it though, with the black spores infecting the crew, but that was David's doing, so not exactly the same. What I actually really find strange, is the lack of the subject in mainstream science, as it seems scientists always find a million excuses for the lack of alien contact, except this one, which is possibly the most probable if aliens are truly observing us from their 🛸..
Edit: oh, and thanks for replying 👍🏻🖤
Dude, it's the dark forest. Keep your head down! (Three Body Problem outro song) ua-cam.com/video/TVvTSJGGsis/v-deo.html
Love this!!! Listened to it at work- thank you
Dawn sounds like an allegory for colonialism
💯% it is! And so much more
What!?
You didn't do: The Mote in God's Eye !?!?!
Shame on you!
Yeah, it can be accused of being sexist but it has one of the best alien species.
Havent read it yet!! Will fix it soon tho!!