I feel like crix does coke … the spas behavior and hyper talkative up vocal tone and well… of course the back to back bathroom trips and when he comes back from the bathroom he keeps rubbing his nose and mouth moving around
We did another tier list but well after Beta was out and after all the raid testing. So gives a better idea. Even now the rankings on the next one are pretty spot on outside of moving Boomy up more. We'll know more when SP and Warr get fixed and we can go back in and raid test again - ua-cam.com/video/Jni7DBMZfms/v-deo.html&t= Please know that this list is a more broad tier list, and not for one singular phase, or only ICC like the other Tier lists that are on YT. We will be doing Phase by phase ones for you guys soon. We go into detail before Rugs discusses them, but the goal of this is to give you guys a general idea on how your spec vibes in WOTLK. If you don't a rank he sets or you don't see your class up there, please know we love you all and its just a list. Anyway, hope you homies enjoy it. We've got the homie Rugs on here for this Episode and we'll have different guests all from the WOTLK Private Server scene who've been playing this for YEARS joining us on future ones as well. Let's get ready for Wrath of the Lich King. Cheers homies. Rugs Twitch - www.twitch.tv/rugsz Rugs YT - ua-cam.com/channels/Jf_nN8jVwe7YIEzE90jQng.html My Twitch - www.twitch.tv/crixgaming_ My Discord - discord.gg/4jTNaZ48fb My Patreon - www.patreon.com/CrixGaming My Twitter - twitter.com/Crix_Gaming Sarthe Twitch - www.twitch.tv/sarthe Sarthe YT - ua-cam.com/users/Sarthetv
@@joshuah4166 be careful this list scuffed even for general dps. Just Ruggz putting opinion out there and not evening know much about the classes themselves.
@@RJMacReady1 Content Creators in each class/spec have at the very least min maxed their builds and any content creator worthy of of their viewership have posted raid videos and can also be found on raidlogs.
Regarding warriors and Sunwell gear going into Tier 7: When the pre-patch hits, the armor penetration values off ALL Burning Crusade items get nerfed into oblivion. In some cases the values get decreased by over 50%.
there seems to be some misunderstanding going around regarding armor pen but the same goes for haste and spell power as well due to wraths stat changes
They were a meta DPS spec at one point until blizzard decided to funnel 1 spec to be ''the tank spec'' - all of the specs were intended to be both dps and tank specs - in TOC however unholy was king
Enhance High-A-- good call... only really good DK's used to beat me on most fights due to AoE specs.. **also HIGH ACTIVITY is a hallmark of good Shaman play, another good call their. The layers of nuance involved in great Enh Sham play was truly enjoyable in Wrath.
Fuck min/max ppl dont understand that mentality is what is killing the game, just have fun and chalenge yourself doing the best u can with the class u like with ppl that do the same.
Long time Shadow player on private servers; they deserve A tier if you REALLY know how to play them. Even though nothing in game lets you know, and you think it wouldn't be the case, just like with Affliction Warlocks, they can roll over percentage damage increases and Crit buffs on SW:Pain... meaning you can pop a potion of Wild Magic as your pre pot and have that buffed dot for the entire fight (would be ~10% damage increase). You can also cheese a manual refresh on fights like Bite on Blood Queen or Rune of Power on heroic Iron council (right when you move to last boss when lust happens and you use 2nd pot). Seeing if this will be the case on Classic will be a big determining factor and there are a number of fights where this can greatly increase your damage. There is a lot of nuance in Timing perfectly the recasts of Mind Flay/Sear after the last tick and this can net a lot of damage, and it is not worth using a no channeling macro unless you are under 100 ms latency. Going further and interrupting Mind Flay directly after a tick really adds up over the course of a fight. It is also worth noting in most situations in AoE if the targets will live long enough it is worth casting VT on mobs into Mind Sear (very useful to cast when tank is still gathering them up and getting aggro) and this will really increase your AoE output. Long story short, there is a big difference between a Spriest who can do their rotation and keep dots up perfectly and one who masters all the tiny min maxing that can be done. There really isn't a comparison to any of the B tier specs in terms of damage output so it shouldn't be there, and it is like that for the entirety of the expansion.
This list is definitely a bit scuffed. Ele shaman gets C tier because they drop off a bit, but Arms gets A tier when they completely lose their raid spot after Ulduar? Surv also drops off a lot in later wrath, they shouldn't be any higher ranked then Ele. feral got scuffed scripting on private servers, don't think they will be as good in classic wrath. Why would you run Enhance when you could just get another DK? Trueshot Aura and Icy Talons would cover buffs. Eles aren't bad at all, maybe Rugs just haven't played with any good Eles. But I guess the video is also just about his personal opinion. A lot of this list is good still tho.
Pure dmg done tier list like this makes less sense in wrath than in TBC imo, since 10 and 25 man are both the same content. You've gotta take raidwide buffs/debuffs into consideration
Big majority of dps specs are useful enough in wotlk to have at least one spot for them in a 25-man raid. But when talking about stacking... for T7 and T8 content from casters I'd take mainly warlocks, from melee dpses: assa rogues, dks (frost mainly) for T9+ content.. casters i'd say fire mages/affli locks, melee dps: unh/frost DKs, Fury war (if soft capped for ArP), assa rogue still good I think... retri paladin becomes truly amazing with T10 set bonus. But I don't see a point of having more than like 3 of 'top dps' specs as other specs provide crucial buffs to raid even when they are not the biggest pumpers. (Unless in some certain rare fights... Yogg prob for affli locks)
Interesting to see lots of people saying that ret paladins are going to be middle of the pack till tier 10 when they get their set bonus, yet loads of people saying from back in the day it was super strong, almost op. I wonder if its just the difference in min maxing over thr years that gives other classes an edge these days.
I am super late to this video, but I have big worries as a warrior entering wrath. I just have a question for Private server players / predictions from anyone tbh: Will I be turned down because I am a warrior from guilds early on? I know blood frenzy is good, but is it good enough to get me into Naxx / Ulduar? I am praying that the promise of Fury being good later, and blood frenzy are enough to convince people, but I've been told by a few people I'm trolling for playing warrior.. but they're my baby, I really don't wanna drop it.
Honestly bro, if you have decent gear and know fights I have no issues taking even two dps warriors in tier 7. The content is actually a joke even on pserver with 100% buffed health and some damage. The only issue is if you're okay being down by the tanks dps-wise for a while...partially why I went DK over warr on pserver even though I'm a warrior main on TBC.
@@jojunheim1398 Yeah that was my impression. I have heard 2 weird things about Classic community / game in general. 1. Wotlk, least tier 7, even buffed, is very easy. and then 2. Classic community is very stringent about meta, regardless of the difficulty. So it has me worried. I might go Enhance instead.. still debating. Thanks though, that gives me a bit of hope, maybe if I worm my way into a TBX guild they'll keep me around in Naxx onward.
I played a hunter, our meta pumper dps spec flipped at the end if I'm remembering correct (I multi classed back then though so played many classes and the hunter was one of my fav dps ranged classes this expansion). I raid led on the hunter in icc because it was one of the easier classes to do such on using weak auras to manage LL procs. MM got good toward the end but was super gear dependent if i recall (I could be misremembering and that could be the start of cata) I was always in the top couple dps though in raid on the majority of fights single and volley on trash was baller so we could top the meters there too. I loved survival though it was super fun with the traps proccing. I remember flip flopping specs a LOT with the hunter around then. Survival is fun as f though boys. DK's were very good but I found them boring (disclaimer I don't enjoy melee dps). Feral druid tanks were the bomb.com too they can finally aoe tank like champs. Paladin healers were pretty crispy with bacon, and cone of healing piss. Honestly if I remember most classes were really good, it was good times boys you are going to love it. I played a boomkin, they were pretty solid it was a good time for the rotation and mana consumption aoe dps was crispy. You only need 1 boomkin, never never two. However, you will want to level up a druid in your arsenal, all of the druid specs are good this expansion, resto, tanking, and boomy. I can't remember if kitty was decent or not but they really were solid all around. I played resto, feral tank, and boomkin on mine and everything was good. I played it at a mediocre level and pumped on every spec. I'm big big excited, everything was so fun.
Wasn't Light of Dawn added in Cata for holy? If I remeber correctly holy paladins were "focus" heals, mainly focusing on the tank and the other heal was a group heal type like resto druid.
A few thoughts : - I'm glad that someone finally recognizes that Arms warrior is a great pve spec. Not many people realize this but wotlk Arms is really not that far from Fury because it shares the same stats/scaling on endgame gear. And in t7-t8 it's better than fury so it is viable throughout the whole expansion. Very challenging (but fun) spec though, which explains why it is so underrated. - Feral is S-tier no matter the scripting. I played feral on servers where the omen didn't scale well at all and when it's the case, you have other ways to optimize the spec (i.e. crit instead of haste + other techniques like bear form switching) to still make it do insane single-target damage (and AoE burst). The dps ceiling on that spec is just so high no matter how you play it. - Warlock is great, that is for sure, only fire mage can top it at the end. Even demonology can do massive damage even if it is the "spellpower buff spec". You will see them a bit lower in the meters usually though because they are also probably the hardest casters specs to play. - BM hunter, depending on pet damage scaling, is the worst of the 3 hunter specs, but does acceptable damage nonetheless. It is not that far behind the 2 other specs if you optimize it well. - Enhancement can be trash or god-tier depending on spellhance scripting/viability. - Frost dk and assassination rogue definitely tail off at the end of the expansion so I would put them a bit lower on the tier list even if their are god-tier at the beginning. - The fact that so many specs are S or A tier shows why wotlk specs are loved. They really did a good job creating so many spec identities while maintaining the vast majority of them extremely equal and good.
The skill cap for Enh was not as hard as you were saying fyi. the rotation is medium difficulty compared to current server rotations, everyone will be just fine. Enh was the only melee class I found fun during this time.
I love the sound of boomies (birb for lyfe!) getting abig aoe ability but "aoe on 1 min cd" sounds a lot like what we have now, and it basically means we don't have aoe. Sure hurricane is pretty good but the 1 min cd basically means we dont do aoe now, so if in wrath that's also tied toa 1 min cd idk why that's something to be excited about unless it's more bonkers than seed is now.
No man Starfall is your big cd. It's aoe is outrageous. But for constant aoe hurricane has no cd, so no more getting upset when the tank pulls any mob out for no reason.
Each of the druid's damage, healing spells and auto attacks has a chance of causing the caster to enter a clearcasting state. This is ooc ingame description. Why ppl never even read that, lmao?
yeah the only thing thats making me lean towards playing mage over warlock is again im expecting much quicker kill times and mages benefit massively from it, so probably going Mage/DK for my two characters for wrath but all of this is subject to how shit is on the Beta before any final decision is made
As someone who is interested in maining a warrior come WOTLK I cannot help but wonder if a lot of these predictions around their DPS comes from people who play on progressive pservers. Wrath will have final talents in from the start and I wonder if that is the common misconception with these predictions like what happened in TBC.
The final patch of Wotlk, which is 3.3.5, is the sum of all the nerfs warriors got during retail Wotlk. It's literally the worst patch for them. Warriors got nerfed at virtually every patch because they outscaled the nerfs each time. With full ICC bis they outscale once again the final nerf.
@@Sumoboi1 This Servers like Warmane do progress through raid "patches" but they still use the 3.3.5 client, so you get end xpac talents everytime, for every xpac of private servers
“ReTs NoT s TiEr” you’re smoking crack dude I mained ret on wrath launch and was competing for top dmg on a lot of fights in a guild that was getting server firsts all the way through yog 0 lights and into icc doing about the same
They start out super strong, but don't scale as well as a lot of other classes. A lot of this is due to the effect of Armor pen and certain specs coming online like Combat, Fire, and Fury. They are never terrible though at any point and tough to play perfectly. Only Feral has a more difficult rotation imo, excluding all of the nuance of min maxing like we see with something like Afflliction which makes a spec more difficult to play optimally. They are always a welcome addition (especially if you take enhancing totems and you are breaking your 25 into two 10s where you will need a 2nd lust) and if you can play one well you are a super special snowflake.
Not at all. Back in og Wrath(and on wrath pservers more recentlyI was very consistently #1 or in the top 3-5(depending on the fight) through Naxx and Ulduar, its still very competitive in ToGC as well, it doesnt really start to fall off until ICC. And its not like its bad in ICC at all, its just that Warr/UH DK scale super hard in t10 and also obviously get Shadowmorne which most specs just cant compete with. MM and Combat overtake it as well but thats again due to scaling with Armor Pen. But a good enhance can still do very competitive DPS on a number of fights in ICC, although there are also some fights in ICC where enhance wont be close to the top 5 because Warr/DK/Combat with full armor pen and Smorne is just so dominant on those fights(usually fights with cleave).
@@Failz , it is true though. If you are playing with super sweaty groups where everyone is min maxing there isn't a comparison. It makes me really sad to hear as I love Ele, but that's the way it is. Luckily classic will be unbuffed content and a cakewalk compared to the buffed private servers people will be playing on, so you can do whatever you'd like.
Mage was great and Ruggs nailed the assessment. I topped meters back then. Mage v trash was not great back in wotlk, it was fine but nothings to be proud of.
Did this guy even play live wrath or is he going off private server 3.3.5 knowlege. Furry was top 5 in 3.0, 3.1. Top 5 for Naxx not in any order Furry Warrior Feral Druid Assassin Rogue Affliction Lock Unholy DK
Wasn’t Ret bonkers strong at wrath release but then got nerfed hard? So 3.3.5 patch they’re weak until T10. People keep putting them in S tier because they remember how crazy strong they were early but we won’t be getting 3.0 we’re getting 3.3.5
Rugs is talking shit about assasination rogues late. But they outperform combat rogues in ICC. Proven by Warcraft logs and another older measuring tool.
He's talking about algalon and how you need a shadow priest to do big bang i got realm first kill on my prot pally and could literally take every big bang every time by myself no problem at all.
Not really, Arcane is very much part of the meta early on in Wrath, theyre great to have in t7 and I guarantee well see them blasting in t7 in wrath classic.
@@Handcannon77 Exactly, same for survival hunter, they're bis SPEC (no class) on the first raid, naxxramas with the same 1 mechanic per boss that we had on vanilla, then for the other 3/4 of the expansion, T8-9-10 mages go fire. I think people don't really understand how tier list works, arcane is not even at B he's at A the second highest rank, it should be B for me since they only work for the first and most easy raid but it's not my list.
Agree, I raided on frost dk and arcane mage in wotlk. Arcane is so good. I didn’t care for fire play style. I know for part of wotlk it was good but I preferred arcane. Also there’s a thing with dk. In og wrath frost was the tank spec and blood was dps but then they switched it. I remember dpsing as blood and it was pretty sick
Ret B tier while ARMS and fury A tier? Lmao. Everything he said about paladin can be said for warrior as well. Ret and fury are basically the same they both dont start very strong and will find just one raid spot (ret for sure, fury not sure) and then they both scale crazy well with the later phases. Maybe fury is a bit ahead on dps but ret bring just so much utility that fury doesnt. Also, what do you mean keep just one ret in your guild? Lmao. This guy is just hating on ret for no reason.
The differences in how the code of the game works from the original to private servers. Most of the concern is due to how often certain trinkets/abilities might proc or slight variations in the coefficients of how stats scale.
I hate tier lists. Keep in mind basically this entire thing is one guys opinion too. Play whatever you like in WotLK. Everything is kind of close. Just enjoy the game. I mained enhance in Classic, Classic tbc, and plan to in Classic WotLK too. Regardless of how the “scripting” is I’m gonna main enhance because I enjoy it. Everyone else should do the same.
Most common is for all rogues swap tricks with another rogue, 3-4 rogues is totally normal in 25man because they do the most damage its quite rare to not have an assasin rogue not be no1 in t7 content and by at least 10% over the next non rogue. They will normally use tricks on each other then vanish and garrot and rupture. At the end of the fight during execute it can be used on other classes but most don't bother, and the argument is well: why should I give it to a class doing less damage? If you do happen to get an odd number of rogues thats sad times. Btw Ass from rogue is a weird one to place, t7 and much of t8 its the best dps in the game but all rogues swap to combat for t9+ and some the problem is that even in ICC Ass is still the third highest spec in the game, combat being no1, fire mage being no2. So to really put it anything less than S even tho no one will play it is silly. Outside of mages and other rogues in t10 any other class would love to have Ass dps, hey do have worse cleave than combat right from the start tho and even DK and Mage so If you do knock them down to A its only because they do less aoe. But again its top 5 in aoe damage so....
right like as a blood dk that was armor pen capped no one was touching me in dps never had a issue being at the top of the charts in a top 25 guild ......
@@lewiselter5435 lol they don’t know.. same here. no one touched me on meters throughout most of wotlk. i played on tich back in the day too. we had top 50 us guilds back then competing
Pretty sure for warriors it’s about rage generation. Which is what makes leveling a warrior so tough. I didn’t play my warrior much but I know hitting 60, getting hit capped felt so huge. I tried out warriors in retail and never really understood what to do but I felt like I “got it” in classic. I’m sure once warriors get hit, expertise, lots of crit and ArP, they will generate way more rage on top of it. They need to round out so many more stats to get going, more than other classes. Which is why I’m sure it’ll not be till late game that they get going. I’ve talked to some warriors and they said when they start at 3.3.5 or whatever that the scaling is much better early on.
Even getting some hit gear as a warrior really helps once you get close to 60 when some gear with hit actually becomes available… I prefer the pace and playstyle of fury over arms, but it’s rough earlier on when you don’t have any hit and you’re missing your white attacks fairly often… but now that my warrior is in the mid 60’s and has around 10% hit with talents and a crit rating of around 23%, he actually pumps some good dps, especially when the crits are poppin… I love how talents like flurry and impale interact with crit, it’s so much fun to get those crits and see flurry proc, increasing attack speed and making the crits and rage generation come even more rapidly. I’ve always played retail WoW up through Shadowlands, but ever since I started leveling my warrior in TBC Classic I’ve stopped playing retail entirely. I love that even some quest items have gem slots and that there are actually enchants for many of the gear slots… I miss that ability to customize with enchants, gems and even reforging, I can’t wait for Classic Cataclysm. But I’m getting ahead of myself. Dps warriors are definitely gear dependent to a fair degree in Classic, but they’re so much more fun than their retail counterparts, and I’d wager that applies to most classes and specs.
there is a lot of reasons why war sucks early on . First of , lack of really good smacking weapon. You dont get enough crits to get rage (heroic strike glyph grants 15 on crit) , resulting in not being able to spam heroic strike. You have the best out of stat scaling with bonus 20 % str of talents , and you dont have too much of it early, resulting in lesser bonus. You also need a lot of crit for your deep wounds talent to proc your bleeds, but you wont even spec in it early on . And all your damage is physical so you together with feral scale the most out of armor penetration , but unlike feral , you are gated by all these things.
Not all, but a lot, since people want dks in raids early days vs fury warriors. Until tier 9 and 10 come and then people will come scrambling back because warrior is dominating again at that point.
I will add one more thing to why ret takes off so hard in ICC: Tiny Abomination in a Jar. Combined with the set bonus, the trinket's proc rate becomes fucking INSANE. It becomes a sizable portion of your damage and makes you go from super saiyan 2 to super saiyan 3.
Genuine question: does fight length actually impact the dps of affliction locks? I mean, on a buffed boss, you can execute for 25% of the boss fight duration (more or less let's say). On a unbuffed boss, you will still execute for 25% of the boss fight duration? So the %gained from an execute phase will literally be the same. I genuinely don't get it, how can it be affected that much?
@Woods Well, i guess you are just plain wrong. If the bosses hp is double. Then the 25% -> 0% phase will last twice the normal time, yes (and not 50% longer btw, i don't know why you said that). BUT the 100% -> 25% will ALSO last twice the normal time!! So when you average averything, the weight of the execute phase compared to the 100->25 phase is strictly identical with double HP than with normal HP. So what's the deal?
@@arkeez1181 classes with more front loaded dps will just benefit more from a short fight than warlock will. Its not that warlock will do less with a shorter execute, its that other classes will do more.
It's more about the damage profiles. Big CD front loading classes will benefit more from short fights than lock. Just for you to look better on the dps chart the best case is the encounter finishes right before they get their CDs back for another use haha.
But let's face it, no matter how much different private servers make DKs, during the official blizzard WOTLK they were still extremely strong, and I mean EXTREMELY strong for real, their dps was insane no matter what.
Pretty good analysis overall. That said, your knowledge of ele shaman is extremely limited. I can only speak on ICC, and I know this is supposed to be an overall list, but you're argument is that it starts strong and falls off. In ICC it's A tier, only losing to Shadowmournes and bis deathbringer's will+armor pen stacked hunter/rogue on most fights. It crushes both SPriest and Boomkin on ST and only loses to Boomkin for 4+ mob scenarios. There's also never a reason to bring a demo lock over an ele for the totem of wrath buff. Demo DPS is sub-par and their buff doesn't provide spell crit. Mind you, my experience may be anecdotal. It's coming from my memory as an ele main in a top 50 US guild during ICC and going off of my own raid experience and world of logs at the time. The lack of aoe argument is very true, but what boss in ICC really has AOE? There are lots of cleave situations, and ele does very well there.
I've never seen ele sham doing more DPS than Demo lock in T10.. and in most fights boomkins were slightly above ele shams... but hard to say, maybe those ele sham players were just not as good. We will see in wotlk classic.
Sorry but you're ignorant. First thing, your spell crit is irrelevant because of boomkin. Second thing, ele is just straight up the worst caster in ICC especially. Third thing, demo locks will provide at least double the spell power buff that ele will bring. (in icc)
@@Vikzl I'm talking about during wrath, not private servers with different values, proc rates, coefficients, boss hp, etc. But yeah, we'll see how it is in classic.
So first of all there has been a TON of things learned since the game was live. There isn't a version of the game that has been min maxed like this xpac has. I've played Spriest and Ele and there is no point at which the Ele could do more damage. The reason you bring a demo over Ele is the buff that demo brings scales with Spirit; within the first tier it pulls ahead if you are funneling them gear... and this means a big DPS increase for all of your casters. On top of this, a demo that is played well will just flat out do more damage even when stacking Spirit. Your boomie will provide spell crit, so the sad reality is there is no buff they provide that someone more desirable cannot. Trust me, it pains me to say all of this. I really love Ele and have always had a soft spot for it. Plus to make it worse it is SOOO fun to play in Wrath. But that is the reality of the situation. The differences in scripting can't make up the huge disparity that we are seeing, and the SP buff is really the nail in the coffin if you are min maxing. The good news is that on private servers we've been playing on buffed content this whole time... meaning an unbuffed version of the content will be a cakewalk. If you just want to enjoy the game (imagine that) you can play anything you want so long as you cover most of the important buffs and do just fine.
Real list: warrior, mage tier s, the rest of the raidcomp is done to suit raid needs-> mandatory classes 2 rogues, 2 rets, 1 hunter, 1 boomie, 1 feral, 1sp, 1 demo lock, 1udk rest you can fill however you like
These tier list are aaaall over the fucking place xD Every class is on a malfunctioning elevator that cast them up and down by people making these ahahah!
I mean you can have prot warrior as don't bring on the tank list, but we did all wrath content including hardmodes and heroic in actual wrath with a prot warrior main tank...is what it is.
People don't like tier lists. Even tho we're just homies sitting around giving our opinions. *shrugs* I'd suggest skimming through this next one tho. We did another tier list but well after Beta was out and after all the raid testing. So gives a better idea - ua-cam.com/video/Jni7DBMZfms/v-deo.html&t=
I feel like crix does coke … the spas behavior and hyper talkative up vocal tone and well… of course the back to back bathroom trips and when he comes back from the bathroom he keeps rubbing his nose and mouth moving around
Bahahahhaa 😂😂👏🏻👏🏻
My boy sneakin and geeking
That is too funny bc that is def how coke is u go to the bathroom and come back and mouth moving
Lmao chill
@@shockzgaminghd686 I know you see it
We did another tier list but well after Beta was out and after all the raid testing. So gives a better idea. Even now the rankings on the next one are pretty spot on outside of moving Boomy up more. We'll know more when SP and Warr get fixed and we can go back in and raid test again - ua-cam.com/video/Jni7DBMZfms/v-deo.html&t=
Please know that this list is a more broad tier list, and not for one singular phase, or only ICC like the other Tier lists that are on YT. We will be doing Phase by phase ones for you guys soon. We go into detail before Rugs discusses them, but the goal of this is to give you guys a general idea on how your spec vibes in WOTLK. If you don't a rank he sets or you don't see your class up there, please know we love you all and its just a list.
Anyway, hope you homies enjoy it. We've got the homie Rugs on here for this Episode and we'll have different guests all from the WOTLK Private Server scene who've been playing this for YEARS joining us on future ones as well. Let's get ready for Wrath of the Lich King. Cheers homies.
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For me this is useful. I do need a overall rate for all classes. I don’t wanna change my class in every tier.
@@joshuah4166 be careful this list scuffed even for general dps. Just Ruggz putting opinion out there and not evening know much about the classes themselves.
Is it possible to get a list of Content Creators per spec/class, so we can see how they are played at a top level?
This is a very good idea and I will start workin on that list ASAP for you. Very good idea.
@@CrixGuides nice, thanks dude :D
@@CrixGuides would love this list!
That only works if you assume that content creators play their spec at a top level
@@RJMacReady1 Content Creators in each class/spec have at the very least min maxed their builds and any content creator worthy of of their viewership have posted raid videos and can also be found on raidlogs.
Regarding warriors and Sunwell gear going into Tier 7: When the pre-patch hits, the armor penetration values off ALL Burning Crusade items get nerfed into oblivion. In some cases the values get decreased by over 50%.
there seems to be some misunderstanding going around regarding armor pen but the same goes for haste and spell power as well due to wraths stat changes
@1:03:00
I can’t decide: ele shaman or shadow priest for wotlk pve?
Survival Hunter pve/pvp hands down one of the most satisfying classes to play in wotlk
u guys are so wrong about ele, the aoe is actually not that bad, happy to play ele and gonna 100% prove you all wrong.
I know Ele slaps. I've been saying this and been on beta slapping with it. I agree with you.
This is the worst class tier I have seen
I remember Blood DK doing really good dps in my raids back in the day. At least during Ulduar/TOC they were almost always top 3.
They were a meta DPS spec
at one point until blizzard decided to funnel 1 spec to be ''the tank spec'' - all of the specs were intended to be both dps and tank specs - in TOC however unholy was king
Happy to see feral up there even at A rank. I recall topping the dps charts in my ICC groups back in the day and even switching to boomie was nuts
feral dps was so much fun and had high skill ceiling juggling your buffs/bleeds. if you did it right you would shred meters
i mean thats cause 99% of players suckd lol back in og wrath hitting 3k dps in naxx was INSANE lol
hows feral looking now? KEKW
Enhance High-A-- good call... only really good DK's used to beat me on most fights due to AoE specs.. **also HIGH ACTIVITY is a hallmark of good Shaman play, another good call their. The layers of nuance involved in great Enh Sham play was truly enjoyable in Wrath.
Fuck min/max ppl dont understand that mentality is what is killing the game, just have fun and chalenge yourself doing the best u can with the class u like with ppl that do the same.
What is it that affliction warlocks have that makes them good in execution phase? drain soul?
Long time Shadow player on private servers; they deserve A tier if you REALLY know how to play them. Even though nothing in game lets you know, and you think it wouldn't be the case, just like with Affliction Warlocks, they can roll over percentage damage increases and Crit buffs on SW:Pain... meaning you can pop a potion of Wild Magic as your pre pot and have that buffed dot for the entire fight (would be ~10% damage increase). You can also cheese a manual refresh on fights like Bite on Blood Queen or Rune of Power on heroic Iron council (right when you move to last boss when lust happens and you use 2nd pot). Seeing if this will be the case on Classic will be a big determining factor and there are a number of fights where this can greatly increase your damage.
There is a lot of nuance in Timing perfectly the recasts of Mind Flay/Sear after the last tick and this can net a lot of damage, and it is not worth using a no channeling macro unless you are under 100 ms latency. Going further and interrupting Mind Flay directly after a tick really adds up over the course of a fight. It is also worth noting in most situations in AoE if the targets will live long enough it is worth casting VT on mobs into Mind Sear (very useful to cast when tank is still gathering them up and getting aggro) and this will really increase your AoE output. Long story short, there is a big difference between a Spriest who can do their rotation and keep dots up perfectly and one who masters all the tiny min maxing that can be done. There really isn't a comparison to any of the B tier specs in terms of damage output so it shouldn't be there, and it is like that for the entirety of the expansion.
This list is definitely a bit scuffed. Ele shaman gets C tier because they drop off a bit, but Arms gets A tier when they completely lose their raid spot after Ulduar? Surv also drops off a lot in later wrath, they shouldn't be any higher ranked then Ele. feral got scuffed scripting on private servers, don't think they will be as good in classic wrath. Why would you run Enhance when you could just get another DK? Trueshot Aura and Icy Talons would cover buffs. Eles aren't bad at all, maybe Rugs just haven't played with any good Eles. But I guess the video is also just about his personal opinion. A lot of this list is good still tho.
full arp Arms war with Shadowmourne pumps like crazy honestly... almost as good as fury.
Pure dmg done tier list like this makes less sense in wrath than in TBC imo, since 10 and 25 man are both the same content. You've gotta take raidwide buffs/debuffs into consideration
I mained an Ele Shamen all through TBC and cannot wait to respec into enhance come WOTLK
you'll have a blast dude i mained enchance in wrath and it was amazing
Does ele suck in pvp?
So what classes do you even want to bring? Seems like you guys said to only bring 1 of each class. What's ideal raid comp?
their tier list is sus asf remembering back to logs
Big majority of dps specs are useful enough in wotlk to have at least one spot for them in a 25-man raid. But when talking about stacking... for T7 and T8 content from casters I'd take mainly warlocks, from melee dpses: assa rogues, dks (frost mainly)
for T9+ content.. casters i'd say fire mages/affli locks, melee dps: unh/frost DKs, Fury war (if soft capped for ArP), assa rogue still good I think... retri paladin becomes truly amazing with T10 set bonus.
But I don't see a point of having more than like 3 of 'top dps' specs as other specs provide crucial buffs to raid even when they are not the biggest pumpers. (Unless in some certain rare fights... Yogg prob for affli locks)
one of each class, multiple locks,mages,hunters,rogues,dks.
@@Sumoboi1 wish they would have said that instead of saying to only bring 1 after every spec
On saurfang with Tricks, my feral druid would top dps every time. DK Blood tank with hysteria, may have had something to do with it.
Is there a link where I can better understand your tier rankings
@crix another killer video. i may be coming back for WoTLK and now I'm torn between rogue or lock :p
They're both so good homie. Can't go wrong!
@@CrixGuides sounds good man. Glad to see you thriving. Nothing but love 🖤 not sure if you remember me :p what server you on homie
@Grenton thanks Brother! Hope you've been well. All my toons are Ally Bene thus time round
I'm excited for new warlock adventures with my magic doggo! I've missed magic doggo.
So even with 3.3.5 being the planned patch for release is Frost and Unholy dk going to be up there still?
Had to stop watching the video 1:29 seconds in when the guy doesn’t know which class icon is for sub rogue.
Am I a rogue? So why doesn't it matter? This ep is about rugs. Stop being ignorant.
I agree, crix stop doing coke bro 😂😂😂
Interesting to see lots of people saying that ret paladins are going to be middle of the pack till tier 10 when they get their set bonus, yet loads of people saying from back in the day it was super strong, almost op. I wonder if its just the difference in min maxing over thr years that gives other classes an edge these days.
I played ret in wotlk and i was in the top 3 WITHOUT a shadowmourne mind you. It was in icc.
Imo rets aren't that good in pve. In pvp however, they are literal gods.
I’m definitely torn between Feral or Afflock
OMG both are not only very good, but my top two favorite specs are Aff/Feral in terms of fun
Druid probably better because u can go balance or heal when needed
very very nice and well argumented by ppl that at least know something about the expansion, thank you boil
I am super late to this video, but I have big worries as a warrior entering wrath.
I just have a question for Private server players / predictions from anyone tbh: Will I be turned down because I am a warrior from guilds early on? I know blood frenzy is good, but is it good enough to get me into Naxx / Ulduar?
I am praying that the promise of Fury being good later, and blood frenzy are enough to convince people, but I've been told by a few people I'm trolling for playing warrior.. but they're my baby, I really don't wanna drop it.
Honestly bro, if you have decent gear and know fights I have no issues taking even two dps warriors in tier 7. The content is actually a joke even on pserver with 100% buffed health and some damage. The only issue is if you're okay being down by the tanks dps-wise for a while...partially why I went DK over warr on pserver even though I'm a warrior main on TBC.
@@jojunheim1398 Yeah that was my impression. I have heard 2 weird things about Classic community / game in general. 1. Wotlk, least tier 7, even buffed, is very easy. and then 2. Classic community is very stringent about meta, regardless of the difficulty. So it has me worried. I might go Enhance instead.. still debating. Thanks though, that gives me a bit of hope, maybe if I worm my way into a TBX guild they'll keep me around in Naxx onward.
Can we do a pve-p overall? Like both in one list??
I played a hunter, our meta pumper dps spec flipped at the end if I'm remembering correct (I multi classed back then though so played many classes and the hunter was one of my fav dps ranged classes this expansion). I raid led on the hunter in icc because it was one of the easier classes to do such on using weak auras to manage LL procs. MM got good toward the end but was super gear dependent if i recall (I could be misremembering and that could be the start of cata) I was always in the top couple dps though in raid on the majority of fights single and volley on trash was baller so we could top the meters there too. I loved survival though it was super fun with the traps proccing. I remember flip flopping specs a LOT with the hunter around then. Survival is fun as f though boys. DK's were very good but I found them boring (disclaimer I don't enjoy melee dps). Feral druid tanks were the bomb.com too they can finally aoe tank like champs. Paladin healers were pretty crispy with bacon, and cone of healing piss. Honestly if I remember most classes were really good, it was good times boys you are going to love it. I played a boomkin, they were pretty solid it was a good time for the rotation and mana consumption aoe dps was crispy. You only need 1 boomkin, never never two. However, you will want to level up a druid in your arsenal, all of the druid specs are good this expansion, resto, tanking, and boomy. I can't remember if kitty was decent or not but they really were solid all around. I played resto, feral tank, and boomkin on mine and everything was good. I played it at a mediocre level and pumped on every spec. I'm big big excited, everything was so fun.
Wasn't Light of Dawn added in Cata for holy? If I remeber correctly holy paladins were "focus" heals, mainly focusing on the tank and the other heal was a group heal type like resto druid.
A few thoughts :
- I'm glad that someone finally recognizes that Arms warrior is a great pve spec. Not many people realize this but wotlk Arms is really not that far from Fury because it shares the same stats/scaling on endgame gear. And in t7-t8 it's better than fury so it is viable throughout the whole expansion. Very challenging (but fun) spec though, which explains why it is so underrated.
- Feral is S-tier no matter the scripting. I played feral on servers where the omen didn't scale well at all and when it's the case, you have other ways to optimize the spec (i.e. crit instead of haste + other techniques like bear form switching) to still make it do insane single-target damage (and AoE burst). The dps ceiling on that spec is just so high no matter how you play it.
- Warlock is great, that is for sure, only fire mage can top it at the end. Even demonology can do massive damage even if it is the "spellpower buff spec". You will see them a bit lower in the meters usually though because they are also probably the hardest casters specs to play.
- BM hunter, depending on pet damage scaling, is the worst of the 3 hunter specs, but does acceptable damage nonetheless. It is not that far behind the 2 other specs if you optimize it well.
- Enhancement can be trash or god-tier depending on spellhance scripting/viability.
- Frost dk and assassination rogue definitely tail off at the end of the expansion so I would put them a bit lower on the tier list even if their are god-tier at the beginning.
- The fact that so many specs are S or A tier shows why wotlk specs are loved. They really did a good job creating so many spec identities while maintaining the vast majority of them extremely equal and good.
U sure Feral S tier no matter the scripting? KEKW feral c tier on blizz wotlk classic
I miss old survival hunter man cant wait to play it
Nice video !
In regards to the scripting of the hybrid destro/demo spec on warmane : How would scripting affect the spec ?
I think they meant if Destro borrowed some skills from demo/affliction like in Warmane, then it would improve destro.
The skill cap for Enh was not as hard as you were saying fyi. the rotation is medium difficulty compared to current server rotations, everyone will be just fine. Enh was the only melee class I found fun during this time.
It's kinda tough if you're totem twisting though. Just too many damn buttons you have to be pressing.
@@narbwow8168 What totem twisting are you doing in wrath?
Well, I wouldn't trust this list with rugs making it
Lol this tier list is a joke
how so ?
good video brother! looking forward to mroe great podcasts like this, it's perfect to listen to while getting prep done in classic. WRATH HYPE!!
Can speak from lots of experience... YES you will want to bring 2+ boomies. The AoE is absolutely ridiculous and speeds up trash a ton!
I love the sound of boomies (birb for lyfe!) getting abig aoe ability but "aoe on 1 min cd" sounds a lot like what we have now, and it basically means we don't have aoe. Sure hurricane is pretty good but the 1 min cd basically means we dont do aoe now, so if in wrath that's also tied toa 1 min cd idk why that's something to be excited about unless it's more bonkers than seed is now.
No man Starfall is your big cd. It's aoe is outrageous. But for constant aoe hurricane has no cd, so no more getting upset when the tank pulls any mob out for no reason.
Is frost 2h or dual wield in wotlk? Or does it vary by tier?
dual wield
2H possibly for pvp though
@@H-D-D not even close
@@H-D-D Nah, you get double runeforge with DW and your AOE is much better as DW.
i am just sad about ele shaman love the feeling of playing ele but dont want to play a class i have to begg plz let me play ele
I was a feral main in wrath. On the official servers Omen of Clarify only proc'd from basic attacks.
Each of the druid's damage, healing spells and auto attacks has a chance of causing the caster to enter a clearcasting state. This is ooc ingame description. Why ppl never even read that, lmao?
@@jalefar8247 as feral it only proc from basic attacks balance and resto spells proc it
yeah the only thing thats making me lean towards playing mage over warlock is again im expecting much quicker kill times and mages benefit massively from it, so probably going Mage/DK for my two characters for wrath but all of this is subject to how shit is on the Beta before any final decision is made
As someone who is interested in maining a warrior come WOTLK I cannot help but wonder if a lot of these predictions around their DPS comes from people who play on progressive pservers. Wrath will have final talents in from the start and I wonder if that is the common misconception with these predictions like what happened in TBC.
I'm too scared to shit talk Fury. That's why I didn't lol.
I play on a 3.3.5 server and I can tell you from 2+ years of Fury Warrior xp:
Warriors are NOT good until ToC patch. It sucks but its true.
The final patch of Wotlk, which is 3.3.5, is the sum of all the nerfs warriors got during retail Wotlk. It's literally the worst patch for them. Warriors got nerfed at virtually every patch because they outscaled the nerfs each time. With full ICC bis they outscale once again the final nerf.
every pserver is on 3.3.5 though so why would there be a misconception?
@@Sumoboi1 This
Servers like Warmane do progress through raid "patches" but they still use the 3.3.5 client, so you get end xpac talents everytime, for every xpac of private servers
“ReTs NoT s TiEr” you’re smoking crack dude I mained ret on wrath launch and was competing for top dmg on a lot of fights in a guild that was getting server firsts all the way through yog 0 lights and into icc doing about the same
Ayy fool. You on warmane?
Isn't enhancement kinda bottom tier dps in wotlk though?
not sure about T9+... but in T7 i remember seeing enha quite pumping
They start out super strong, but don't scale as well as a lot of other classes. A lot of this is due to the effect of Armor pen and certain specs coming online like Combat, Fire, and Fury. They are never terrible though at any point and tough to play perfectly. Only Feral has a more difficult rotation imo, excluding all of the nuance of min maxing like we see with something like Afflliction which makes a spec more difficult to play optimally. They are always a welcome addition (especially if you take enhancing totems and you are breaking your 25 into two 10s where you will need a 2nd lust) and if you can play one well you are a super special snowflake.
Not at all. Back in og Wrath(and on wrath pservers more recentlyI was very consistently #1 or in the top 3-5(depending on the fight) through Naxx and Ulduar, its still very competitive in ToGC as well, it doesnt really start to fall off until ICC. And its not like its bad in ICC at all, its just that Warr/UH DK scale super hard in t10 and also obviously get Shadowmorne which most specs just cant compete with. MM and Combat overtake it as well but thats again due to scaling with Armor Pen. But a good enhance can still do very competitive DPS on a number of fights in ICC, although there are also some fights in ICC where enhance wont be close to the top 5 because Warr/DK/Combat with full armor pen and Smorne is just so dominant on those fights(usually fights with cleave).
So hard to listen to the ele shaman bit :( rip
don't trust ^^ they have no idea what they r sayin
1. Ele shaman can do crazy good aoe in wrath if you know how to play and I'll just say that rofl.
@@Failz , it is true though. If you are playing with super sweaty groups where everyone is min maxing there isn't a comparison. It makes me really sad to hear as I love Ele, but that's the way it is. Luckily classic will be unbuffed content and a cakewalk compared to the buffed private servers people will be playing on, so you can do whatever you'd like.
rogs top dps on tbc too ppl just cryabout nobuff lol
Do we think they are going to end up allowing faction/race change?
Yeah
In a nut shell Rouges are back to the top baby
Get Some muuuuhahaaahaaa!!!!!
Mage was great and Ruggs nailed the assessment. I topped meters back then. Mage v trash was not great back in wotlk, it was fine but nothings to be proud of.
Same experience from back in the day.
Did this guy even play live wrath or is he going off private server 3.3.5 knowlege. Furry was top 5 in 3.0, 3.1.
Top 5 for Naxx not in any order
Furry Warrior
Feral Druid
Assassin Rogue
Affliction Lock
Unholy DK
I want to know how 1 minute kill times will change this.
Wasn’t Ret bonkers strong at wrath release but then got nerfed hard? So 3.3.5 patch they’re weak until T10. People keep putting them in S tier because they remember how crazy strong they were early but we won’t be getting 3.0 we’re getting 3.3.5
I stopped listening at "Blood DK is a meme spec"
Rugs is talking shit about assasination rogues late. But they outperform combat rogues in ICC. Proven by Warcraft logs and another older measuring tool.
Feral will rise!
hehe, for me, getting ganked by some giant moon chicken with leet magic was a dummer
He's talking about algalon and how you need a shadow priest to do big bang i got realm first kill on my prot pally and could literally take every big bang every time by myself no problem at all.
I wish we had metamorphos on retail...
Exorcism is not Undead/Demon anymore so doesn’t matter for the ret dps.
It always crits against undead and demon.
And 1% extra dmg on them on any dmg
@@autodefenestrate608 truuue
Arcane mage is underrated
*Insert the class you play and is not on S tier* is underrated
Not really, Arcane is very much part of the meta early on in Wrath, theyre great to have in t7 and I guarantee well see them blasting in t7 in wrath classic.
@@Handcannon77 Exactly, same for survival hunter, they're bis SPEC (no class) on the first raid, naxxramas with the same 1 mechanic per boss that we had on vanilla, then for the other 3/4 of the expansion, T8-9-10 mages go fire.
I think people don't really understand how tier list works, arcane is not even at B he's at A the second highest rank, it should be B for me since they only work for the first and most easy raid but it's not my list.
Agree, I raided on frost dk and arcane mage in wotlk. Arcane is so good. I didn’t care for fire play style. I know for part of wotlk it was good but I preferred arcane. Also there’s a thing with dk. In og wrath frost was the tank spec and blood was dps but then they switched it. I remember dpsing as blood and it was pretty sick
warlock is 100% going to be overplayed, some peoeple bring 4 to 6 of them on first week.
What do you mean by scripting?
Sarthe is annoying and gets all his views copying pasting other people's videos and then reacting. Make something original man!
Ret B tier while ARMS and fury A tier? Lmao. Everything he said about paladin can be said for warrior as well. Ret and fury are basically the same they both dont start very strong and will find just one raid spot (ret for sure, fury not sure) and then they both scale crazy well with the later phases. Maybe fury is a bit ahead on dps but ret bring just so much utility that fury doesnt. Also, what do you mean keep just one ret in your guild? Lmao. This guy is just hating on ret for no reason.
Set bonus and the trinket from put
Gor ret
omg...your are dead wrong on like 50% of them
Where are monks?
What does he mean when he's talking about 'scripting'?
The differences in how the code of the game works from the original to private servers. Most of the concern is due to how often certain trinkets/abilities might proc or slight variations in the coefficients of how stats scale.
Hunters are clearly the highest skill cap for pvp in wotlk tho
wrong. its clearly feral druid
Rugz hates ret so bad hahahaa
"i had rank 1 but i didnt played it too much"... rank one with 3 people playing ret on the private server? xDD
@@svetwfz8617 ranking between like 20 ppl hahaha
I hate tier lists. Keep in mind basically this entire thing is one guys opinion too. Play whatever you like in WotLK. Everything is kind of close. Just enjoy the game. I mained enhance in Classic, Classic tbc, and plan to in Classic WotLK too. Regardless of how the “scripting” is I’m gonna main enhance because I enjoy it. Everyone else should do the same.
Most common is for all rogues swap tricks with another rogue, 3-4 rogues is totally normal in 25man because they do the most damage its quite rare to not have an assasin rogue not be no1 in t7 content and by at least 10% over the next non rogue. They will normally use tricks on each other then vanish and garrot and rupture. At the end of the fight during execute it can be used on other classes but most don't bother, and the argument is well: why should I give it to a class doing less damage?
If you do happen to get an odd number of rogues thats sad times.
Btw Ass from rogue is a weird one to place, t7 and much of t8 its the best dps in the game but all rogues swap to combat for t9+ and some the problem is that even in ICC Ass is still the third highest spec in the game, combat being no1, fire mage being no2. So to really put it anything less than S even tho no one will play it is silly. Outside of mages and other rogues in t10 any other class would love to have Ass dps, hey do have worse cleave than combat right from the start tho and even DK and Mage so If you do knock them down to A its only because they do less aoe. But again its top 5 in aoe damage so....
Take a shot everytime rugsz says "like"
Pre-shadowmourne, whatever. Post-shadowmourne, Warrior. Maybe some mages. Maybe. Also diseaseless blood dk is a thing, and you know it.
right like as a blood dk that was armor pen capped no one was touching me in dps never had a issue being at the top of the charts in a top 25 guild ......
@@lewiselter5435 lol they don’t know.. same here. no one touched me on meters throughout most of wotlk. i played on tich back in the day too. we had top 50 us guilds back then competing
Pretty sure for warriors it’s about rage generation. Which is what makes leveling a warrior so tough. I didn’t play my warrior much but I know hitting 60, getting hit capped felt so huge. I tried out warriors in retail and never really understood what to do but I felt like I “got it” in classic.
I’m sure once warriors get hit, expertise, lots of crit and ArP, they will generate way more rage on top of it. They need to round out so many more stats to get going, more than other classes. Which is why I’m sure it’ll not be till late game that they get going. I’ve talked to some warriors and they said when they start at 3.3.5 or whatever that the scaling is much better early on.
Wotlk Leveling warrior is insane tho. you go tank and oneshot everything with revenge, the spell now deals a shit ton of dps and hits a nearby target
Even getting some hit gear as a warrior really helps once you get close to 60 when some gear with hit actually becomes available… I prefer the pace and playstyle of fury over arms, but it’s rough earlier on when you don’t have any hit and you’re missing your white attacks fairly often… but now that my warrior is in the mid 60’s and has around 10% hit with talents and a crit rating of around 23%, he actually pumps some good dps, especially when the crits are poppin… I love how talents like flurry and impale interact with crit, it’s so much fun to get those crits and see flurry proc, increasing attack speed and making the crits and rage generation come even more rapidly. I’ve always played retail WoW up through Shadowlands, but ever since I started leveling my warrior in TBC Classic I’ve stopped playing retail entirely. I love that even some quest items have gem slots and that there are actually enchants for many of the gear slots… I miss that ability to customize with enchants, gems and even reforging, I can’t wait for Classic Cataclysm. But I’m getting ahead of myself. Dps warriors are definitely gear dependent to a fair degree in Classic, but they’re so much more fun than their retail counterparts, and I’d wager that applies to most classes and specs.
there is a lot of reasons why war sucks early on . First of , lack of really good smacking weapon. You dont get enough crits to get rage (heroic strike glyph grants 15 on crit) , resulting in not being able to spam heroic strike. You have the best out of stat scaling with bonus 20 % str of talents , and you dont have too much of it early, resulting in lesser bonus. You also need a lot of crit for your deep wounds talent to proc your bleeds, but you wont even spec in it early on . And all your damage is physical so you together with feral scale the most out of armor penetration , but unlike feral , you are gated by all these things.
i love afflock but im scared im too dumb to play it
I don’t like cryx so I watch on mute. Sarthe is awesome always. His rogue videos in classic were amazing.
Then go watch his channel. We both post the same thing.
@@CrixGuides feel better?
Are you mentally ill?
Every warrior is just going to switch to DK.
Not all, but a lot, since people want dks in raids early days vs fury warriors. Until tier 9 and 10 come and then people will come scrambling back because warrior is dominating again at that point.
I mean you want both in a raid regardless especially 25
I will add one more thing to why ret takes off so hard in ICC: Tiny Abomination in a Jar. Combined with the set bonus, the trinket's proc rate becomes fucking INSANE. It becomes a sizable portion of your damage and makes you go from super saiyan 2 to super saiyan 3.
Bruh, I was thinking about going Ret in WOTLK Classic but now it sounds like they are too dependent on stuff...
love how they are rating classes they dont know details to. waste of time
Genuine question: does fight length actually impact the dps of affliction locks?
I mean, on a buffed boss, you can execute for 25% of the boss fight duration (more or less let's say). On a unbuffed boss, you will still execute for 25% of the boss fight duration? So the %gained from an execute phase will literally be the same.
I genuinely don't get it, how can it be affected that much?
On paper, no. But longer execute phase feels awesome.
@Woods Well, i guess you are just plain wrong.
If the bosses hp is double.
Then the 25% -> 0% phase will last twice the normal time, yes (and not 50% longer btw, i don't know why you said that).
BUT the 100% -> 25% will ALSO last twice the normal time!!
So when you average averything, the weight of the execute phase compared to the 100->25 phase is strictly identical with double HP than with normal HP.
So what's the deal?
@@arkeez1181 classes with more front loaded dps will just benefit more from a short fight than warlock will. Its not that warlock will do less with a shorter execute, its that other classes will do more.
It's more about the damage profiles. Big CD front loading classes will benefit more from short fights than lock.
Just for you to look better on the dps chart the best case is the encounter finishes right before they get their CDs back for another use haha.
I like the hype but I can’t bring myself to watch a 90 minute tier list video
combat does gave some fckn amazing cd's
I remember as Fury in TBC having near 50% Crit in Naxx.
Rogues rise up! Now we got guild leadership exp under our belt thanks to TBC being a fucked meta. Its over for the Warriors the time is nigh!
Lmao 100% true
DK gargoyle is bugged AF on most pservers (hi warmane) and scales way too good. so DK dps values are dodgy at best
But let's face it, no matter how much different private servers make DKs, during the official blizzard WOTLK they were still extremely strong, and I mean EXTREMELY strong for real, their dps was insane no matter what.
Pretty good analysis overall. That said, your knowledge of ele shaman is extremely limited. I can only speak on ICC, and I know this is supposed to be an overall list, but you're argument is that it starts strong and falls off. In ICC it's A tier, only losing to Shadowmournes and bis deathbringer's will+armor pen stacked hunter/rogue on most fights. It crushes both SPriest and Boomkin on ST and only loses to Boomkin for 4+ mob scenarios. There's also never a reason to bring a demo lock over an ele for the totem of wrath buff. Demo DPS is sub-par and their buff doesn't provide spell crit. Mind you, my experience may be anecdotal. It's coming from my memory as an ele main in a top 50 US guild during ICC and going off of my own raid experience and world of logs at the time. The lack of aoe argument is very true, but what boss in ICC really has AOE? There are lots of cleave situations, and ele does very well there.
True story, shaman analysis in this video here falls straight off the cliff.
I've never seen ele sham doing more DPS than Demo lock in T10.. and in most fights boomkins were slightly above ele shams... but hard to say, maybe those ele sham players were just not as good. We will see in wotlk classic.
Sorry but you're ignorant. First thing, your spell crit is irrelevant because of boomkin. Second thing, ele is just straight up the worst caster in ICC especially. Third thing, demo locks will provide at least double the spell power buff that ele will bring. (in icc)
@@Vikzl I'm talking about during wrath, not private servers with different values, proc rates, coefficients, boss hp, etc. But yeah, we'll see how it is in classic.
So first of all there has been a TON of things learned since the game was live. There isn't a version of the game that has been min maxed like this xpac has. I've played Spriest and Ele and there is no point at which the Ele could do more damage. The reason you bring a demo over Ele is the buff that demo brings scales with Spirit; within the first tier it pulls ahead if you are funneling them gear... and this means a big DPS increase for all of your casters. On top of this, a demo that is played well will just flat out do more damage even when stacking Spirit. Your boomie will provide spell crit, so the sad reality is there is no buff they provide that someone more desirable cannot.
Trust me, it pains me to say all of this. I really love Ele and have always had a soft spot for it. Plus to make it worse it is SOOO fun to play in Wrath. But that is the reality of the situation. The differences in scripting can't make up the huge disparity that we are seeing, and the SP buff is really the nail in the coffin if you are min maxing. The good news is that on private servers we've been playing on buffed content this whole time... meaning an unbuffed version of the content will be a cakewalk. If you just want to enjoy the game (imagine that) you can play anything you want so long as you cover most of the important buffs and do just fine.
Real list: warrior, mage tier s, the rest of the raidcomp is done to suit raid needs-> mandatory classes 2 rogues, 2 rets, 1 hunter, 1 boomie, 1 feral, 1sp, 1 demo lock, 1udk rest you can fill however you like
lmfao warriors are trash
These tier list are aaaall over the fucking place xD Every class is on a malfunctioning elevator that cast them up and down by people making these ahahah!
Retri on B, are you drunk? 😅
They are bad at doing damage t7 and t8, not arguing that
until they get 2/5 T10 set bonus.. they are not that great really...
@@Vikzl they get good at TOC with T9 tbh, double DC+2/5 T9 is good as f
Did he just get 2 private server raiders just bs their way into a tier list based off their own guilds players
I mean you can have prot warrior as don't bring on the tank list, but we did all wrath content including hardmodes and heroic in actual wrath with a prot warrior main tank...is what it is.
It's doable.. but why to play prot war if there are prot pally, bdk and feral druids that are just generally better (when speaking about T10).
Why is the like to dislike ratio so close for this video? 819 likes to 634 dislikes :/
People don't like tier lists. Even tho we're just homies sitting around giving our opinions. *shrugs*
I'd suggest skimming through this next one tho. We did another tier list but well after Beta was out and after all the raid testing. So gives a better idea - ua-cam.com/video/Jni7DBMZfms/v-deo.html&t=
frost mage does good dmg they are not meta. I used to raid with frost all the time got a lot of of the fuck you doing that much dmg but it is good
Frost is also one of the most fun specs to play too IMO.
Just make a blood dk job done
Great content, but the heavy use of the filler word 'like' cause my ears to bleed. Valley Girl speak has sadly spread everywhere.
Likeeee reallllllllly. Where's my pumpkin spice latteeeeeeeee
That’s american people nowadays, slaughtering the language 😂
Warriors are top dps just because you dont know how to play them lol
You forgot about the Glyph for Starfall, its a 30 second CD with the glyph.