Do you guys agree with our conclusions on the powers and significance of the wizard's staffs? Or do you believe that they had some other purpose? As always subtitles are available and feedback is welcome!
I'm very much in agreement with your assessment of the Wizards Staffs. I always considered them to be a tool that allowed them to more easily concentrate and perform their magic. Another great video GeekZone.
I‘d rather suspect, that Gandalf got his new staff after his death from Valinor, but as Saruman lost their trust (and also didn‘t die) he wouldn‘t get a new one
I always took Gandalf's breaking of Saruman's staff as a symbolic act, like stripping the king of his crown. The person remains the same, but the symbol of h is office is taken away. Like maybe cutting the beard off a dwarf. A humiliation even if there is no literal physical effect.
I took it more as a show of power. that Gandolf the white was now more powerful. like how Sauron shattered Gandolfs staff right after he was boasting that no light can beat the dark and his power was greater.
@@walley2637 i dont believe saruman ever broke his staff. I believe in the book gandalfs staff broke destroying the bridge against the balrog. I also dont recall the witch king destroying gandalfs staff. Without the ring of fire as gandalf the white his only real challenge would be sauron as he is a maia himself and regarded as the strongest. With the ring of fire im sure he would give sauron a run for his money.
@@GeekZoneMT I DONT agree... When Saruman is asked to hand over the keys of Orthanc with the promise that he might get it back later, he goes on a rant: "...Later!...Yes, when you also have the Keys of Barad-dûr itself, I suppose; and the crowns of seven kings, and the RODS OF THE FIVE WIZARDS, and have purchased yourself a pair of boots many sizes larger than those that you wear now. A modest plan..." This suggest that the staff itself gives (or boosts) power similar fashion to the rings of power.
@@Quickfeet-MC probably but he held on to it even before he smoked we’ve gotta give the man props for that (although I’m sure it helped that he’s an angelic being)
I was about to write something similar. I was thinking that since they, Istari, are powered down Maiar they may need the staff to help reach greater power. Or another possibility has to deal with why they are not allowed to use all there power and came to middle earth as feeble old men... to keep the collateral damage low. The Valar learned during the War of Wrath that in order to remove and defeat great evil, Melkor, they had to cause enormous damage to middle earth. So much that Beleriand was ruined and sank. Now Sauron is believed to have been almost if not slightly more powerful then Melkor at the end of the 1st age. Melkor being made weak from using so much power during the first age through his various deeds. That perhaps the Valar knew they couldn't allow that level of intervention again. For though the elves time was over it was now the time of the second born, Man, and man needed these lands since the effected area would have been the home to all of the Edain. By having the staves perhaps the wizards could direct the magic better so that they could literally point it at a specific spot to control the magic. I don't know just a quick thought I had.
@@dlodortyjobs5618 I admire that thought process... Seems very reasonable to me. Very perceptive. I wonder exactly what sped through Tolkien's mind, stoped, turned, replayed, corrected, continued in but a snap of the fingers. Most of us do that to some extent but few use it intentionally in scenarios. I am cursed with a lot of imagery in day breaking but never cared to hold a pen and paper in the process. That's work! And never ending. I think maybe you do too. Take up a pen because I think you might be on to something. Do you think Tolkien looks down on us and wonders why we sit around doing this or was it planned out too?
@@dlodortyjobs5618 Personally feel like the staves were merely ceremonial in nature. Gandalf the Grey broke his staff ln the bridge, but could still use his powers to defeat the Balrog, and as the White, he rarely used his staff as a conduit. Even Saruman's staff being broken was more of a ceremonial gesture, of him being replaced and cast out.
@@metatron6262 Agreed. Since the Valar basically customized the power level of the Istari, it would make no sense to give them a staff to compensate for any power they do not naturally have.
@@metatron6262 I DONT agree... When Saruman is asked to hand over the keys of Orthanc with the promise that he might get it back later, he goes on a rant: "...Later!...Yes, when you also have the Keys of Barad-dûr itself, I suppose; and the crowns of seven kings, and the RODS OF THE FIVE WIZARDS, and have purchased yourself a pair of boots many sizes larger than those that you wear now. A modest plan..." This suggest that the staff itself gives (or boosts) power similar fashion to the rings of power.
I'd like to think the staves were a bit like having a cannon versus having a bomb. A cannon can focus the power of the shot to a general direction while a bomb pushes its force in all directions.
My feeling is that the staff was both tool and symbol. As a tool it was a focusing device, a way of shaping the wizard's innate power to achieve an effect, whereas as a symbol it showed his status as an Istari. It's possible that the staff was also a safety device imposed on the wizards. Their mission was to inspire and guide the free peoples in opposing a returning Sauron, they were not to dominate or match power with power (except in extremis). It may be that Manwe, being aware of the risks of them falling away from their mission, linked their arts to their staves so that if one of them did go astray the head of the order could strip them much of their power at a stroke, rather than have them become a new enemy.
It was definitely a tool given to them from the valar. They already had their powers to begin with. They don’t need staffs to use magic, and they can just make another if they want. It’s clearly a tool.
@@666strutter she did. The staffs were symbolic, nothing more. I think Gandalf actually used his hand to scare off the nazgul with light, not the staff like in the movies.
@@Speculativedude more than anything, to help them walk as they are quite old. Gandalf was only as active as he was due to wearing a ring of power which increased his vitality. You could argue they also represent their rank, and could serve as a conductor for their innate power to conjure magic. But the staff needs the wizard, not the other way around... in terms of magic.
I think the deeper source of the staff is that it is much like the One Ring is to Sauron - a personal extension. They could 'store' their own essence to be drawn at a later date. While their own bodies created and stored this 'essence' it had a limited reservoir. By, dumping 'essence' into the staff when there was no need, the staff built up a 'charge of essence'. Then when a dire moment came, the Wizard would have access to far more magic than would be normal, making them far more powerful than they were normally. It probably took a long time to charge these staves with 'essence' and thus when Gandalf destroyed Saruman's staff, Gandalf knew it would be a long time before he could craft one again and charge it. Because we only see one new staff in the books and it seems to be made in Lothlorien we can assume that they could only be made there. We must remember that Galadriel was a student and friend of the unbridled Maiar Melian and she may well be the one that understands how these devices are built. It is also possible that she has an artifact that can empower them in the form of the Phial which contained the Light of the Two Trees in the form of Eärendil. We know for certain that Gandalf the White got his replacement staff in Lothlorien. The movies get a lot of this wrong so the books are the only thing can be considered. It is possible that Saruman had a spare that was not as powerful as his original one. We also need to consider that some magics may require a staff and some do not.
07:10 We also have an example of a Wizard killing a freaking Balrog without his staff. Rather more impressive than the other examples. Idk why anyone would think they were helpless without one.
I like to think that the wizards could create staffs from any type of branch or rod by imbuing them with their own magic. And I agree with your point that the staffs either focus the magic or make it easier to use.
A question, Saruman say: “Yes, when you also have the Keys of Barad-dûr itself, I suppose; and the crowns of seven kings, and the rods of the Five Wizards, and have purchased yourself a pair of boots many sizes larger than those that you wear now.” Would that not also show that the staffs contains some power, If not physically than symbolic... or what do you guys think it would mean if Gandalf held the five rods of the wizards ?
I've always considered the staff as powerless in itself, simply a device through which a wizard could focus or channel his power. Push too much power through it, as on the bridge in Moria, and you'll destroy it! I always felt that a wizard could channel his might through other devices, such as glamdring, as he did when he destroyed the Balrogs sword. Quote "From out of the shadow a red sword leaped flaming. Glamdring glittered white in answer. There was a ringing clash and a stab of white fire. The Balrog fell back and its sword flew up in molten fragments. The wizard swayed on the bridge, stepped back a pace, and then again stood still." To me, in that scene, it was made clear that Gandalf channelled his might through his sword.
Staves of wizards are specially crafted enchanted tools that are focal points of a wizard's power. They are created by using previously enchanted materials that are created over time to become personally attuned Focus devices of the creator. The wizard then places many of his spells within the staff that enable the wizard to release them at will quickly and efficiently as desired. Wands can also be used in the very same way. The Staves become devices that hold enchantments, spells etc much like a Wizard's spell book. The Enchanted Staff allows the Wizard to use it as a focus to release the spells contained within at will. Also, the spells contained within also enable the wizard to cast those spells at a greatly reduced fatigue cost as the energy and power used comes from the power of the staff and in place of the stamina of the wizard. If you want to know more please look into the Role Playing Game designed back in 1977-1983 known as Chivalry & Sorcery 1st and 2nd editions. This game explains all of this. Also, the game was designed around Middle Earth and Tolkien's world as the background. ua-cam.com/video/vyBgKarU5yg/v-deo.html
Having an Elven Ring of Power that granted hin resistance against the Balrog's dark fire, and a magic Elven artifact sword definitely helped. And it was still basically a draw, as they both died at the end of the battle. The Balrog being KO'd first only matters in games and combat sports.
Tbh if he needs a staff to beat one he wouldn't be worthy of his role. If an Elf (Glorfindel) can kill one at the cost of his life there isn't really a reason that he should fail to do so at the same cost. Staff or no staff sword or no sword, his taking it down and his return were necessary for symbolic reasons.
Well in the movie he clearly infuses the sword with magic before he strikes at the balrog. And on the other hand, he uses physical force in various situations ranging from slaying orcs to bonking hobbits in the flowerbed outside an open window many times. Magic might be the nuclear option against nosy gardeners.
My impression from the books and especially visuals in the films was that the staffs may not have been necessary for the wizard's magic, but could still have unrelated powers of their own. Gandalf's ability to light the tip of his staff is similar to the vial of captured light Frodo was given by Galadriel. It's possible that, if Sauruman knew Galadriel had a whole new staff made for Gandalf that he feared the additional abilities such a thing could have, moreso than he feared the old staff from Valinor that Gandalf had during his imprisonment.
@@RomanHistoryFan476AD It is BOTH! the Balrog itself is man shaped but about twice as big, but there is a great aura of shadow and flame surrounding it, what can expand and contract. Literally ALL of the artworks had it wrong... Most of them just painted a big scary devil shaped monster... lack of imagination.
Interesting how Gandalf kept track of his staff for thousands of years, but in the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings movies, he lost it about every movie in a half.
The use of wands, rods and staves by magic users has a long tradition in Europe. Different woods were thought to enhance and empower specific abilities (as in the Harry Potter wands). My belief is that the wizard staves enhanced and focused their powers or were channels for that power. However, since the Istari were all Maiar and had powers that simply came from their natures, then the staves could be thought of as symbols or props. The Istari got their powers from their very nature, and not from outside sources and not from learned spells or magic, just as was true for the Valar. So . . . it's hard to say, and it may be that it's simply from Tolkein's unclear thought and creativity that it was supposed to be a mystery of the Istari, not something to be clearly understood.
I suspect Saruman's second staff might have literally just been an intimidating-looking bit of wood. He was a hollow shell compared to what he was before.
It might have been a psyop. Shorelines didn’t know his staff was broken, so showing up with what looks like a staff would cause them to associate him with the now more powerful Gandalf
The Wizard’s staff always kind of reminded me of what a wand might mean to a wizard or witch in Harry Potter. Maybe it’s a stretch, but hear me out. These are probably considered extremely important tools for the 5 wizards sent on their quest... not just for the obviously long journeys they would be taking, but they contained the orbs/artifacts which harnessed their unworldly powers, and possessed/enabled the powers to be used in Middle Earth...provided to them from Valar upon their quest to Middle Earth. The staff is basically a part of them, more than any sword could be. I have always been under the impression that the staffs could cast spells, be used for innumerable uses like light, fire, defense, offense, weather, etc. It’s hands-down a Wizard’s best weapon, their lifeline, their gift/weapon for being sent to Middle Earth. Without them, they still had powers obviously, but probably not as grounded or harnessed. Grima Wormtongue had to have known this from his dealings with Saruman, and is why he specifically mentions Gandalf’s staff as being a problem. Without it, a wizard can’t be nearly as effective, hone their skills, or project as much influence - as we see toward the end with Saruman. This also gives context to just how big of a deal it was when Saruman’s staff was shattered by Gandalf. It was Gandalf’s way of saying “you’re done now, Saruman...it’s over. You failed, and don’t deserve the powers bestowed upon you.” They can build new staffs, yes, but I feel once Saruman lost favor and turned evil, the power he’d be able to wield through that new staff would not be nearly as effective - that’s just speculation though. Almost as if they had to be granted permission by the Valar to retain their power. I love the background music to these videos as well, it’s eerie, and works perfectly.
I always saw the staff as a focus myself, no power in itself, but a excellent conduit for the wizards power. Funny enough that could also work for the Potter wands, maybe some are just better conductors for certain people then others, but the book implies the wands have some form of consciousness that decides if it likes the wizard or not. Personally I think Gandalf did more then break Saruman's staff, we just cant see the other things he did. Sometimes its best to leave things to the imagination, that way both interpretations are correct:)
Interesting video. :) I quite like and agree with your analysis of the wizards' staffs. I always assumed the wizards' staffs in relation to their magic was more or less like you said: it does a lot to help them amplify and channel their magic, but they aren't wholly dependent on it for their power, and I like the idea that it compliments the humble forms that the wizards were clothed in for their mission to Middle-Earth. Another thought occurred to me when watching this vid: perhaps part of the reason why the wizards needed their staffs to help with some of their powers during their time in Middle-Earth whereas I haven't really heard anything about Maiar in the First Age requiring such artefacts when they travelled to Middle-Earth, is because the decline of old magical forces in Middle-Earth during the Second and onwards Ages meant that in those later Ages Maiar in Middle-Earth would have needed something more to channel their otherworldly (Valinor-tied) magic abilities.
Recall that the Istari are all Maiar, acting as emissaries - that they were not to fight the power of Sauron with force, or to so act as an angel except in direst need, or to seek worship through their own glory and power. To achieve this end, they were incarnated in a process different than how Maia normally take form. The Maiar had ability to take physical form, and power to change this form at will (though there appears to be a mana/emotional cost involved to do this) and destruction of one's form was a permanent power loss (the Balrog possibly changes form a couple times during the fight, Sauron lost his ability to appear fair when he was destroyed with the Numenorean fleet, Sauron transferred a lot of his remaining energy into the Ring (thus making him uniquely vulnerable if he were separated from it...)). In all of the cases of Maiar changing form in the Silmarillion, they do so at no loss to their "self" - their memories all remained intact. The Istari were unique - voluntarily giving up most of their abilities - and many of their memories for this mission. Tolkien writes in Unfinished Tales:"Their emissaries were forbidden to reveal themselves in forms of majesty, or to seek to rule the wills of Men and Elves by open display of power, but coming in shapes weak and humble were bidden to advise and persuade Men and Elves to good ....Strange indeed though this may seem, the Istari, being clad in bodies of Middle-earth, might even as Men and Elves fall away from their purposes. and do evil, forgetting the good in the search for power to effect it. ... For it is said indeed that being embodied the Istari had needs to learn much anew by slow experience, and though they knew whence they came the memory of the Blessed Realm was to them a vision from afar off, for which (so long as they remained true to their mission) they yearned exceedingly. Thus by enduring of free will the pangs of exile and the deceits of Sauron they might redress the evils of that time." Let us look first at whether a wizard *needed* his staff. After falling into the abyss with the balrog, Gandalf keeps up the fight for 10 days before finally killing the balrog. This indicates that the two Maiar were approximately evenly matched through the entire fight - otherwise it would have been over one way or another a lot sooner. Most people or armies unfortunate enough to encounter a balrog rarely got to encounter anything else. Remember that this balrog had single-handedly *wiped out* (except for the few that ran away) the entire dwarf nation at Khazad-dum. Gandalf solo countered this level of force for 10 days straight, with no staff (but obviously plenty of magic was involved due to the length of fight); therefore the staff - while it may make focusing his power easier, doesn't seem to hamper his ability much by its loss. We could assume, then, that the other Istari, could do magic just fine without their staffs - but as part of their mission, they were not supposed to do it in front of other people. The staff is also a symbol of authority from the Valar - a permission to do magic - like a police officer's badge on public display. Every use of magic in the books *in front of other people* used the staff - both as a focusing tool, and as symbol of authority. Saruman never took Gandalf's staff in the books - one reason being was that it would exceed his authority to do so. He could ask Gandalf to surrender it (and Gandalf the White does exactly this - he asks Saruman politely for his staff as a symbol of goodwill). When Gandalf shatters the staff of Saruman, he does so with the enhanced authority from Eru (who has taken over the Valar's now-failed Istari project (Alatar and Pallando are MIA, Radagast is lost in his hobbies, Saruman is rogue, and Gandalf is dead) and altered Gandalf's power levels and mission parameters). He very publicly removes Saruman's authority to act. There is debate if "casting him from the order" changed his nature as well, possibly removing his ability to use any of his innate power. When Saruman is killed in the Shire: "For a moment [the gray mist] wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing." This indicates that the spirit of Curunir was in Saruman still, and I would posit that he could have still done magic without his staff, but even in his fallen state he still yearned for the West and even in his long fall never broke the restraint of using magic once his authority to do so had been taken. Or it could be that Gandalf sealed him away when he shattered his staff and cast him from the order.
One thing I'd add, artefacts in Middle Earth are imbued with the spirit of their creator (Silmarils/Feanor, The Ring/Sauron, Sam's rope from Lorien, Eol's dark sword, etc). So even if a staff is relatively inert, it would likely have some element of spirit or consciousness. So Gandalf's first staff would perhaps have something of a craftsman of valinor in it - potent but otherworldly, where his second staff would be imbued with the spirit of Lorien, giving Gandalf the White a deeper connection to Middle Earth. But yeah, both a tool and a badge of rank.
I think that Saruman placed Gandalf on Orthanc with his staff because of how arrogant and cocky he was. After all, even when he had lost his armies and Orthanc, he was bitter and refused to stop, as he made clear to Gandalf and the Hobbits when they encountered each other on their way back to the Shire. When he later attacked the Shire and was defeated, he insulted Grima and this pissed him off which led to his death. Saruman's arrogance led to his downfall. He did not believe that Gandalf could escape from Orthanc, and also may have hoped to convert him to his cause, perhaps by making him see his industrial works in making the Uruk-hai, and by making escape hopeless.
Good summation. For comparison: does a sword have any intrinsic power? No. Does it amplify the power of the person wielding it? Yes. The same applies to a staff. In the movies, it seems to work a bit like a capacitor. It charges up from Gandalf himself, and runs out periodically. But the power does not derive originally from the staff.
I like the idea that the staffs of the Istari were imbued with some of the power of their owners, but not a lot of it. We can easily infer that if a staff was broken or taken away, the wizard could replace it with another which would be endowed with suitable energies in a process known only to those who did it. This would take some, but not much, time. We were never told what a Hobbit (for example) might have been able to do with a wizard's staff. Probably nothing, or so little that it would not matter. Some mysteries must remain to keep us interested.
I read somewhere staffs were also a safety measure in case you miss cast a destructive spell, if you use a staff, the staff will explode instead of your hand.
The background music, "White Palace" from the Hollow Knight soundtrack--I was just listening to this piece not 30 minutes ago! Wanted to pop in to say that was a nice choice, and if you haven't tried the game it is also very beautiful. On the staffs, what you describe feels right. Something to focus their power through but also with symbolic power. The wizards never really seemed to be so definite in how they wielded power, using foresight, social manipulation, inspiration or anything else as much as any obvious magic.
I suspect they or the istari alone could each have a rod or staff like a mystical signature weapon for anyone else it is a piece of wood but in Gandalfs hands it is a wizards staff and magical weapon, there is a line from suruman saying Gandalf wanted the rods of the 5 wizards.
@@GeekZoneMT well Gandalf got his second one from galadriel if memory serves along with his white robes, two towers I believe, I think they can but they didn't as far as we know, I believe it's a focusing device
Remember when Gandalf lost his battle against Saruman who'd picked up both staffs spinning Gandalf around by his face? It was as if they were being used to accomplish different tasks. One used to spin Gandalf and the other to levitate him in that awkward position.
The greatest power in Gandalf striking the bridge was like drawing a circle in Wicca. He delineated a magical boundary that could not be broached. Wasn't so much that he broke the bridge as he just drew a line and said "You shall not pass." What destroyed the staff was that it had to overcome the will of the Balrog itself. Everything is a battle of wills
It seems they WANT a staff, and will almost always USE the staff when they have it, but they don't absolutely NEED it. Does that mean it helps them in some way by being an external focus? It seems when they don't use a staff it makes them more 'spent' afterwards, so perhaps they have to use less internal magical energy to cast a spell when using the staff? Maybe also makes casting the spell faster? As for Saruman letting Gandalf keep his staff, it may have just been the author needing to have Gandalf keep it and didn't want to write in a whole scene of him getting it back somehow, so he just kind of threw it in so the story could proceed without an ugly mechanic getting in the way.
Also, gandalf's appearance was heavily modeled on the imagery of Odin in disguise as a wandering old man where he had concealed Gungnir as his walking stick. This helps lend credence to the analysis that the staffs were crafted with either Valinorian or Noldorin expertise to imbue them with hidden powers, even if not as the direct purpose as a weapon.
The reference of: "his voice the only weapon he had left" has a good meaning as one of the wizard's powers of magic was "Words of Power" some old powerful spells that if spoken could rend and tear or empower items or people around them. I feel this has a place in how all the wizards at that time had the power to influence the people of Middle-earth. But at times of great danger could also be used as a weapon of unimaginable damage as none could know of such raw power of words. And we have seen how words alone can cause such damage and beauty in Tolkien's works.
For gaming purposes, I allow a Wizard to place up to 1/2 of his Casting Pts into an object (staff, ring, etc), thereby doubling the embedded CP. If the item is broken...*ouch*. Sauron exceeded the 1/2 CP limit by a darn sight when he forged the Ruling Ring; we see what happened when it was destroyed..... Love your vids; well researched, beautifully presented!
Each and every wizard's staff contained a crystal. Crystals have been known for ages in the occult community to have the ability to store a wealth of energy. It can be drawn from them, and it can be replenished. The staff provided a channel through which their power travelled, and the crystal provided a point at which it could be gathered and honed to a very, very fine point. The reason this is necessary is because the world around us is an absolute cacophony of energies- each being and object with its own unique signature. Some are lesser, some are greater. So the wizard's power, if used merely through his extremities alone, would have had to contend mightily with all these other energies, and might easily be drowned out among them, producing little to no effect. The staff and crystal, however, made it possible to put an awful lot of raw force behind that power, thus allowing it to punch through the massive resistance of the other energies present and make itself heard amongst the chaos so to speak. Very much like using a bullhorn to make yourself heard above a crowd.
yeah i think you nailed it at the end there, they are just a status thing like a crown or scepter. they may have had a bonus of helping them get use to being in the body of a man, let alone an old one, helping them to walk and in the same way, helping them to use their magic, though i cant imagine they would not be able to use their magic (or walk) without them.... they are Maiar after all. Also if they held power, Saruman would have one, or any of the other Maiar.
Having enjoyed your videos for quite a while, I must say, I like the current Attenborough voice, but the previous narrators accent was made for Middle-earth lore and I do hope you'll make a return. Even if just for special videos.
Remember when Saruman said something about Gandalf hoping to acclaim all five wizards' staffs alongside the keys of Barad-dúr and the crowns of the seven (dwarven?) kings? It seems they are somewhat precious even if a wizard could craft a new one
Geek zone why did Saruman leave behind in Orthanc such Valuable treasures in the closet of Orthanc? Does this show that he plan to return there? And what were the plans of Saruman did he plan to try to come back and try to take over the world? or did he want to do as much damage as possible? and could he not destroy such valuable items?
@@goncaloferreira6429 Yes, because in Unfinished Tales it spoke about Saruman discovering the Cirdan giving the ring of fire to Gandalf and it added to Saruman's jealousy of Gandalf. Then again he didn't take Gandalf's staff either. Maybe is some way Saruman wasn't capable?
Totally agree with your points. I think it helps to view them as any tool or weapon, in a way. Many of your arguments could be made about a hammer or sword as well. The finer the craft and the material, the better it can fully convey the power and skill of its wielder. Just like Aragorn no doubt could throw a mean punch, his weapon amplifies and concentrates his strength. The staff's effect may or may not be in proportion to other tools, but the idea is still the same.
I'm a little torn on this subject. I fully admit that the greater beings in Tolken's lore could embew ordinary objects with powers. There's a part of me too that wants to believe that (at least in Gandalf's case) the wizard's staff was for deceptive advantage. Making everyone believe there is a source of power where there is not and hiding the real source of power is a theme Tolken uses with Gandalf a few times. I might be imagining it but I still like to think it.
Grima panicking over them not taking his staff definitely proves that it's a powerful tool why they need it idk maybe it helps anchor them to middle earth
I always thought it was clear the staffs enhanced and/or focused a wizard's powers but weren't essential to the wizard having them. Breaking a wizard's staff would limit his abilities until such time as he could get a new one, which I would think would require someone with powers to create.
Maybe they were like the Ring, but only a little. Probably though, I think they were mostly a prop; something to make the Maiar look less godlike and more human. Still seems like a dangerous precedent for others to see the big hero being a magic user and not think that is what it takes to win, especially with all the elves around.
I think Saruman didn't confiscate Gandalf's staff at Orthanc because Saruman was probably sure he was stronger than Gandalf but also that he would join him.
I dunno; I always assumed Saruman had taken it, but a wizard and his staff are not so easily separated. Saruman of course knew that, so probably kept track of it, somehow. So Gandalf didn't 'summon' his staff until it was time to leave. I agree the staff was like a lens; but had (a) limitation(s), why else would Gandalf cast the ray of light by hand? Comments? Great video in a great series. :)
I always understood it to be like a badge of office, like how if a policeman has his badge ripped off while apprehending someone, he doesn't lose any authority since the badge is merely symbolic (e.g. Gandalf lost his staff on Khazad-dum but still took down the Balrog, or needed to have his staff when freeing Theoden the way an officer needs to present a warrant). But if his superior takes the badge away from him due to misconduct, he is no longer allowed to exercise his powers to enforce the law - He'll still have the skills he learned, but no longer has the right to use them as freely.
I figured it was like a governor on an engine. Since he isn't supposed to be full Maia when he's in Middle Earth the staff is the only way he can use his abilities. And it only allows some of his abilities to be used and without it he can't do anything.
I don't know as they're amplifiers so much as a convenient focus. I feel its quite possible that Wormtongue believed that they were more because he'd seen Saruman use his staff as a focus.
I agree with almost everything, especially the part about the staffs being conduits and focusing-artifacts but not absolutely necessary for a wizard to wield his magic. I don't know though that they were necessary either as physical props due to their great age. Yes, they were clothed in the bodies of old men and were nowhere near the power of their old Maiar selves, but Gandalf showed remarkable physical stamina in the books. He was able to lift a strongly built young man like Faramir out of the funeral pyre Denethor had made, he was able to ride for hours and days at a time, and most of all he was able to battle a Balrog for days and to overcome it without his staff. Although he may have claimed it was a prop for his great age (as he did at Edoras when confronting the bewitched Theoden King), I don't think it was actually necessary for that reason more for focusing his power in order overcome Saruman's magic.
I totally agree, I never really saw the wizard's staffs as a magic artifact but rather a symbol and a vocal point for the Wizards to use said magic. If the Staffs/Rods had power in of themselves, others would come to wish to possess them, we could see this happening in the case of the Blue Wizards and their rumored death, would Sauron not want to possess their rods to increase his power, but seeing that these rods are merely a vocal point and symbol of one's power, Sauron had he actually killed the Blue Wizards would have kept them in Barad Dur as a prize and display of victory over the Wizards. Could you imagine the Mouth of Sauron (or Mordu for those who actually know his "name") coming out of the Black Gate with one of the Blue Wizard's staffs? I for one think that it would have been awesome, without question it could have made the situation look even more dire for the West, especially Gandalf who would sense who the staff belonged to, and to see it twisted by Sauron for his purpose.
My theory is that the staffs are basically binding contracts and also catalysts, representations of the agreement the Istari made with the Vallar, not to use their Devine powers beyond a certain point. And when using magic without them it’s more difficult for the wizards to use their powers without risking breaking the rule they needed to follow.
I personally believe, that the staffs were powerless. The sole reason for that being the fact that Saruman didn’t take Gandalf’s staff. It is common knowledge that Saruman was jealous of Gandalf ever since they arrived in Middle Earth. This jealousy was many times amplified by two events. First when Gandalf was given Narya, the ring of fire, and thus recognized as the greatest of the Istari by Kirden. And the second event was when Galadriel requested Gandalf to lead the white order. Gandalf was the only one of the Istari that Saruman considered his equal so I think there is no way he’d let him keep his stuff if it had any power whatsoever. The only power I think it had was symbolic. People of Middle Earth could recognize one of the order just by looking at it and that’s why it also struck fear in any who were facing it.
Why are balrogs believed to be these massive creatures, when men are remembering for slaying them. Are we overstating the power of the Balrogs? Did humans and elfs kill them by hitting their toes? If any man or elf went against the movie adaptation of the balrog this would simply not be possible.
Given that Tolkien was a devout catholic, I think that the wizard's staff is also a reference to the bishop's staff. Like the Istari, the staff is a famous symbol for representing their rank and many official duties during Mass are done while holding the staff (not because of some inherent properties of the wood but, again, as a symbol of their title).
Interesting point about Sauruman not taking Gandalf's staff in the book. Because in the movie he does take it during their fight. Just an interesting divergent point.
A magnifying glass doesn't create light, but in bending and focusing light, in can magnify one's ability to see... or to start fires. It seems clear that a wizard's staff is both a powerful tool and his symbol of office, so I definitely agree that in breaking Saruman's staff, he was symbolically removing him from the order. I can't remember if Saruman has a new staff when he shows up at the end in the Shire. If not, maybe staffs require the craft of elves to create?
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Galandriel give Gandolf his new staff when he returned in two towers. Could it be they can't make their own but can only be given by a "staff maker". If a wizard can just make a new one then couldn't Gamdolf just grab a piece of wood long enough or is there some ritual/spell than need to be done in crafting a new staff? I dont know much about the extended lore of Middle Earth, nor about the books. Ive just started reading fellowship so my knowledge is limited.
I believe Gandalf was rejuvenated by the valar after his fight with the balrog and upon the realizing that their chief wizard was in league with the old enemy they gave their most faithful servant the power to assume the position. And the staff was remade with him. The staffs are conduits for their power and I don’t think they can be made in middle earth as they are a gift of valar
Staffs are possibly a combination of the mentioned uses: spell focus, symbol of authority, & practical tool to lean upon. The staffs might have had some spells cast upon them directly, to enhance their usefulness & sturdiness, but weren't inherently magical. I suspect Saruman not taking Gandalf's staff was a combination of arrogance, accommodation to placate Gandalf, & perhaps some spells set upon the imprisonment area that were designed to weaken Gandalf's magic (the latter being my conjecture.)
I think the reason Saruman didn't take Gandalf's staff was because trying to do so would have lead to a real fight between the two. Much like the fight between Gandalf and the Balrog, it would have taken a great toll on Saruman to win that fight and he simply couldn't afford the time and effort to do so. Also I agree that his goals with capturing Gandalf were to recruit him at best and delay him at worst. Had it not been for Gwihir, Saruman may have been able to keep Gandalf sequestered long enough to force him to cooperate if only to keep the ring out of Sauran's hands.
The power of a Wizard's staff is presumably located at its apex, as the song says 'A wizard's staff has a knob on the end'. (Shameless Discworld reference.)
Previous dude went to university or something, so current dude is acting as narrator -- I'm not entirely sure if it's a temporary or permanent arrangement tho 🤔
You you realize you just said that their staffs act like most fantasy staffs as I focusing point for power which I called before you even started the video but I still love you
I've always been of the mind that the staff is a vessel where they put their true divine power since they are basically demigods or Angels trapped in Old Men bodies to act as a guide in the fight against Sauron they have to constantly pull their punches and the staff regulates that power and and without it they may unleash their full power or lose it all together
In The Two Towers, Gandalf needed his staff to break the curse on King Theoden. Can you talk about how wizards can do physical combats in LOTR? and have high physical endurance?
Do you guys agree with our conclusions on the powers and significance of the wizard's staffs? Or do you believe that they had some other purpose? As always subtitles are available and feedback is welcome!
Yes I agree
I concur good sir
I'm very much in agreement with your assessment of the Wizards Staffs. I always considered them to be a tool that allowed them to more easily concentrate and perform their magic. Another great video GeekZone.
i kinda like these videos a little more when you narrate the video. But otherwise, great video.
I‘d rather suspect, that Gandalf got his new staff after his death from Valinor, but as Saruman lost their trust (and also didn‘t die) he wouldn‘t get a new one
I always took Gandalf's breaking of Saruman's staff as a symbolic act, like stripping the king of his crown. The person remains the same, but the symbol of h is office is taken away. Like maybe cutting the beard off a dwarf. A humiliation even if there is no literal physical effect.
Yeah agreed
I totally agree! To me, it's like breaking the sword of an enemy General when that General surrenders...
I took it more as a show of power. that Gandolf the white was now more powerful. like how Sauron shattered Gandolfs staff right after he was boasting that no light can beat the dark and his power was greater.
@@walley2637 i dont believe saruman ever broke his staff. I believe in the book gandalfs staff broke destroying the bridge against the balrog. I also dont recall the witch king destroying gandalfs staff. Without the ring of fire as gandalf the white his only real challenge would be sauron as he is a maia himself and regarded as the strongest. With the ring of fire im sure he would give sauron a run for his money.
@@GeekZoneMT I DONT agree...
When Saruman is asked to hand over the keys of Orthanc with the promise that he might get it back later, he goes on a rant:
"...Later!...Yes, when you also have the Keys of Barad-dûr itself, I suppose; and the crowns of seven kings, and the RODS OF THE FIVE WIZARDS, and have purchased yourself a pair of boots many sizes larger than those that you wear now. A modest plan..."
This suggest that the staff itself gives (or boosts) power similar fashion to the rings of power.
The most impressive thing is keeping track of a staff for 10,000 years
I’d have misplaced it in 10 minutes
@@Saber23 Gandalf would have probably misplaced that stick if it wasn’t his pipe holder and lighter
@@Quickfeet-MC probably but he held on to it even before he smoked we’ve gotta give the man props for that (although I’m sure it helped that he’s an angelic being)
Daily drivers are easy to keep track of. I've held onto things my grandpa and dad owned before me.
The Istari came on Middle Earth after the first defeat of Sauron around 3000 years before LOTR
Very powerful conduits to compensate for their diminished powers once they left Valinor.
I was about to write something similar. I was thinking that since they, Istari, are powered down Maiar they may need the staff to help reach greater power. Or another possibility has to deal with why they are not allowed to use all there power and came to middle earth as feeble old men... to keep the collateral damage low. The Valar learned during the War of Wrath that in order to remove and defeat great evil, Melkor, they had to cause enormous damage to middle earth. So much that Beleriand was ruined and sank. Now Sauron is believed to have been almost if not slightly more powerful then Melkor at the end of the 1st age. Melkor being made weak from using so much power during the first age through his various deeds. That perhaps the Valar knew they couldn't allow that level of intervention again. For though the elves time was over it was now the time of the second born, Man, and man needed these lands since the effected area would have been the home to all of the Edain. By having the staves perhaps the wizards could direct the magic better so that they could literally point it at a specific spot to control the magic. I don't know just a quick thought I had.
@@dlodortyjobs5618 I admire that thought process... Seems very reasonable to me. Very perceptive. I wonder exactly what sped through Tolkien's mind, stoped, turned, replayed, corrected, continued in but a snap of the fingers. Most of us do that to some extent but few use it intentionally in scenarios. I am cursed with a lot of imagery in day breaking but never cared to hold a pen and paper in the process. That's work! And never ending. I think maybe you do too. Take up a pen because I think you might be on to something. Do you think Tolkien looks down on us and wonders why we sit around doing this or was it planned out too?
@@dlodortyjobs5618 Personally feel like the staves were merely ceremonial in nature. Gandalf the Grey broke his staff ln the bridge, but could still use his powers to defeat the Balrog, and as the White, he rarely used his staff as a conduit.
Even Saruman's staff being broken was more of a ceremonial gesture, of him being replaced and cast out.
@@metatron6262 Agreed. Since the Valar basically customized the power level of the Istari, it would make no sense to give them a staff to compensate for any power they do not naturally have.
@@metatron6262 I DONT agree...
When Saruman is asked to hand over the keys of Orthanc with the promise that he might get it back later, he goes on a rant:
"...Later!...Yes, when you also have the Keys of Barad-dûr itself, I suppose; and the crowns of seven kings, and the RODS OF THE FIVE WIZARDS, and have purchased yourself a pair of boots many sizes larger than those that you wear now. A modest plan..."
This suggest that the staff itself gives (or boosts) power similar fashion to the rings of power.
I'd like to think the staves were a bit like having a cannon versus having a bomb. A cannon can focus the power of the shot to a general direction while a bomb pushes its force in all directions.
This
I like that analogy
My feeling is that the staff was both tool and symbol. As a tool it was a focusing device, a way of shaping the wizard's innate power to achieve an effect, whereas as a symbol it showed his status as an Istari.
It's possible that the staff was also a safety device imposed on the wizards. Their mission was to inspire and guide the free peoples in opposing a returning Sauron, they were not to dominate or match power with power (except in extremis). It may be that Manwe, being aware of the risks of them falling away from their mission, linked their arts to their staves so that if one of them did go astray the head of the order could strip them much of their power at a stroke, rather than have them become a new enemy.
Oh I like this explanation. Draws from deeper lore and it has a very Tolkien-esque notion to it.
It was definitely a tool given to them from the valar. They already had their powers to begin with. They don’t need staffs to use magic, and they can just make another if they want. It’s clearly a tool.
Didn't Galandriel make Gandolfs second staff when he returned as Gamdolf the white?
@@666strutter she did.
The staffs were symbolic, nothing more.
I think Gandalf actually used his hand to scare off the nazgul with light, not the staff like in the movies.
I get what you are saying, but my question would be, a tool to do what? What would their function be?
@@Speculativedude
more than anything, to help them walk as they are quite old.
Gandalf was only as active as he was due to wearing a ring of power which increased his vitality.
You could argue they also represent their rank, and could serve as a conductor for their innate power to conjure magic.
But the staff needs the wizard, not the other way around... in terms of magic.
A tool of a fook
“A wizards staff has a knob on the end” Discworld folk song.
What I came here to say. Good old Nanny Ogg.
😆
I’m a wizaaaaaaard!!!!
I think the deeper source of the staff is that it is much like the One Ring is to Sauron - a personal extension. They could 'store' their own essence to be drawn at a later date. While their own bodies created and stored this 'essence' it had a limited reservoir. By, dumping 'essence' into the staff when there was no need, the staff built up a 'charge of essence'. Then when a dire moment came, the Wizard would have access to far more magic than would be normal, making them far more powerful than they were normally. It probably took a long time to charge these staves with 'essence' and thus when Gandalf destroyed Saruman's staff, Gandalf knew it would be a long time before he could craft one again and charge it.
Because we only see one new staff in the books and it seems to be made in Lothlorien we can assume that they could only be made there. We must remember that Galadriel was a student and friend of the unbridled Maiar Melian and she may well be the one that understands how these devices are built. It is also possible that she has an artifact that can empower them in the form of the Phial which contained the Light of the Two Trees in the form of Eärendil. We know for certain that Gandalf the White got his replacement staff in Lothlorien.
The movies get a lot of this wrong so the books are the only thing can be considered. It is possible that Saruman had a spare that was not as powerful as his original one.
We also need to consider that some magics may require a staff and some do not.
07:10 We also have an example of a Wizard killing a freaking Balrog without his staff. Rather more impressive than the other examples. Idk why anyone would think they were helpless without one.
I like to think that the wizards could create staffs from any type of branch or rod by imbuing them with their own magic. And I agree with your point that the staffs either focus the magic or make it easier to use.
Like the way Sauron imbued the ring? Interesting parallel. 🤔
A question, Saruman say: “Yes, when you also have the Keys of Barad-dûr itself, I suppose; and the crowns of seven kings, and the rods of the Five Wizards, and have purchased yourself a pair of boots many sizes larger than those that you wear now.”
Would that not also show that the staffs contains some power, If not physically than symbolic... or what do you guys think it would mean if Gandalf held the five rods of the wizards ?
The true power in clearly in large boots, no staff could possible compare.
That sounds so suggestive. "Gandalf holds the five rods of the wizards" like come on guys
Suggesting to possess the five wizard staves is just him saying that the person would have to have dominion over the wizards.
@@xenxander that's kinky brah
what kind of power would the key to barad dur posses if not a symbolic one
I've always considered the staff as powerless in itself, simply a device through which a wizard could focus or channel his power. Push too much power through it, as on the bridge in Moria, and you'll destroy it! I always felt that a wizard could channel his might through other devices, such as glamdring, as he did when he destroyed the Balrogs sword. Quote "From out of the shadow a red sword leaped flaming.
Glamdring glittered white in answer.
There was a ringing clash and a stab of white fire. The Balrog fell back and its sword flew up in molten fragments. The wizard swayed on the bridge, stepped back a pace, and then again stood still."
To me, in that scene, it was made clear that Gandalf channelled his might through his sword.
Staves of wizards are specially crafted enchanted tools that are focal points of a wizard's power. They are created by using previously enchanted materials that are created over time to become personally attuned Focus devices of the creator. The wizard then places many of his spells within the staff that enable the wizard to release them at will quickly and efficiently as desired. Wands can also be used in the very same way. The Staves become devices that hold enchantments, spells etc much like a Wizard's spell book. The Enchanted Staff allows the Wizard to use it as a focus to release the spells contained within at will. Also, the spells contained within also enable the wizard to cast those spells at a greatly reduced fatigue cost as the energy and power used comes from the power of the staff and in place of the stamina of the wizard. If you want to know more please look into the Role Playing Game designed back in 1977-1983 known as Chivalry & Sorcery 1st and 2nd editions. This game explains all of this. Also, the game was designed around Middle Earth and Tolkien's world as the background. ua-cam.com/video/vyBgKarU5yg/v-deo.html
I mean, Gandalf somehow defeated the balrog after shattering his staff.
Good observation!
Having an Elven Ring of Power that granted hin resistance against the Balrog's dark fire, and a magic Elven artifact sword definitely helped. And it was still basically a draw, as they both died at the end of the battle. The Balrog being KO'd first only matters in games and combat sports.
Tbh if he needs a staff to beat one he wouldn't be worthy of his role. If an Elf
(Glorfindel) can kill one at the cost of his life there isn't really a reason that he should fail to do so at the same cost. Staff or no staff sword or no sword, his taking it down and his return were necessary for symbolic reasons.
Well in the movie he clearly infuses the sword with magic before he strikes at the balrog. And on the other hand, he uses physical force in various situations ranging from slaying orcs to bonking hobbits in the flowerbed outside an open window many times. Magic might be the nuclear option against nosy gardeners.
I always thought Gandalf defeated the Balrog using his Maiar powers, not his wizard powers.
My impression from the books and especially visuals in the films was that the staffs may not have been necessary for the wizard's magic, but could still have unrelated powers of their own. Gandalf's ability to light the tip of his staff is similar to the vial of captured light Frodo was given by Galadriel. It's possible that, if Sauruman knew Galadriel had a whole new staff made for Gandalf that he feared the additional abilities such a thing could have, moreso than he feared the old staff from Valinor that Gandalf had during his imprisonment.
Been noticing lots of different Balrog sizes in different works of art.
Yeah in the Book the size of the Balrog was never given Cleary, sometimes it is big as a great man sometimes it dwarfed men with ease.
@@RomanHistoryFan476AD It is BOTH! the Balrog itself is man shaped but about twice as big, but there is a great aura of shadow and flame surrounding it, what can expand and contract.
Literally ALL of the artworks had it wrong... Most of them just painted a big scary devil shaped monster... lack of imagination.
@@meleardil would be a great way to portray a character in writing.
I dunno, but "I cannot allow you before Theoden King so armed, Gandalf Greyhame. By order of "ick" "Grima Wormtounge"....
Interesting how Gandalf kept track of his staff for thousands of years, but in the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings movies, he lost it about every movie in a half.
You know every pimp's got to have a cane or staff
Lol
If Gandalf was a pimp, I wonder what his bitches would look like.
Same about Saramon or Radagast.
Ostentatious robes and funky hat too.
The use of wands, rods and staves by magic users has a long tradition in Europe. Different woods were thought to enhance and empower specific abilities (as in the Harry Potter wands). My belief is that the wizard staves enhanced and focused their powers or were channels for that power. However, since the Istari were all Maiar and had powers that simply came from their natures, then the staves could be thought of as symbols or props. The Istari got their powers from their very nature, and not from outside sources and not from learned spells or magic, just as was true for the Valar. So . . . it's hard to say, and it may be that it's simply from Tolkein's unclear thought and creativity that it was supposed to be a mystery of the Istari, not something to be clearly understood.
I suspect Saruman's second staff might have literally just been an intimidating-looking bit of wood. He was a hollow shell compared to what he was before.
Also he wasn't going to get a staff of mallorn blessed by Galadriel or anything either.
It might have been a psyop. Shorelines didn’t know his staff was broken, so showing up with what looks like a staff would cause them to associate him with the now more powerful Gandalf
Shirelings... typing on phone
The Wizard’s staff always kind of reminded me of what a wand might mean to a wizard or witch in Harry Potter. Maybe it’s a stretch, but hear me out. These are probably considered extremely important tools for the 5 wizards sent on their quest... not just for the obviously long journeys they would be taking, but they contained the orbs/artifacts which harnessed their unworldly powers, and possessed/enabled the powers to be used in Middle Earth...provided to them from Valar upon their quest to Middle Earth. The staff is basically a part of them, more than any sword could be.
I have always been under the impression that the staffs could cast spells, be used for innumerable uses like light, fire, defense, offense, weather, etc. It’s hands-down a Wizard’s best weapon, their lifeline, their gift/weapon for being sent to Middle Earth. Without them, they still had powers obviously, but probably not as grounded or harnessed.
Grima Wormtongue had to have known this from his dealings with Saruman, and is why he specifically mentions Gandalf’s staff as being a problem. Without it, a wizard can’t be nearly as effective, hone their skills, or project as much influence -
as we see toward the end with Saruman.
This also gives context to just how big of a deal it was when Saruman’s staff was shattered by Gandalf. It was Gandalf’s way of saying “you’re done now, Saruman...it’s over. You failed, and don’t deserve the powers bestowed upon you.”
They can build new staffs, yes, but I feel once Saruman lost favor and turned evil, the power he’d be able to wield through that new staff would not be nearly as effective - that’s just speculation though. Almost as if they had to be granted permission by the Valar to retain their power.
I love the background music to these videos as well, it’s eerie, and works perfectly.
I always saw the staff as a focus myself, no power in itself, but a excellent conduit for the wizards power. Funny enough that could also work for the Potter wands, maybe some are just better conductors for certain people then others, but the book implies the wands have some form of consciousness that decides if it likes the wizard or not. Personally I think Gandalf did more then break Saruman's staff, we just cant see the other things he did. Sometimes its best to leave things to the imagination, that way both interpretations are correct:)
"Saruman kinda forgot about the wizard staff..."
Interesting video. :) I quite like and agree with your analysis of the wizards' staffs. I always assumed the wizards' staffs in relation to their magic was more or less like you said: it does a lot to help them amplify and channel their magic, but they aren't wholly dependent on it for their power, and I like the idea that it compliments the humble forms that the wizards were clothed in for their mission to Middle-Earth. Another thought occurred to me when watching this vid: perhaps part of the reason why the wizards needed their staffs to help with some of their powers during their time in Middle-Earth whereas I haven't really heard anything about Maiar in the First Age requiring such artefacts when they travelled to Middle-Earth, is because the decline of old magical forces in Middle-Earth during the Second and onwards Ages meant that in those later Ages Maiar in Middle-Earth would have needed something more to channel their otherworldly (Valinor-tied) magic abilities.
I've read all of the novels several times and I feel you've hit the nail on the head
Recall that the Istari are all Maiar, acting as emissaries - that they were not to fight the power of Sauron with force, or to so act as an angel except in direst need, or to seek worship through their own glory and power. To achieve this end, they were incarnated in a process different than how Maia normally take form. The Maiar had ability to take physical form, and power to change this form at will (though there appears to be a mana/emotional cost involved to do this) and destruction of one's form was a permanent power loss (the Balrog possibly changes form a couple times during the fight, Sauron lost his ability to appear fair when he was destroyed with the Numenorean fleet, Sauron transferred a lot of his remaining energy into the Ring (thus making him uniquely vulnerable if he were separated from it...)). In all of the cases of Maiar changing form in the Silmarillion, they do so at no loss to their "self" - their memories all remained intact. The Istari were unique - voluntarily giving up most of their abilities - and many of their memories for this mission. Tolkien writes in Unfinished Tales:"Their emissaries were forbidden to reveal themselves in forms of majesty, or to seek to rule the wills of Men and Elves by open display of power, but coming in shapes weak and humble were bidden to advise and persuade Men and Elves to good ....Strange indeed though this may seem, the Istari, being clad in bodies of Middle-earth, might even as Men and Elves fall away from their purposes. and do evil, forgetting the good in the search for power to effect it.
... For it is said indeed that being embodied the Istari had needs to learn much anew by slow experience, and though they knew whence they came the memory of the Blessed Realm was to them a vision from afar off, for which (so long as they remained true to their mission) they yearned exceedingly. Thus by enduring of free will the pangs of exile and the deceits of Sauron they might redress the evils of that time."
Let us look first at whether a wizard *needed* his staff. After falling into the abyss with the balrog, Gandalf keeps up the fight for 10 days before finally killing the balrog. This indicates that the two Maiar were approximately evenly matched through the entire fight - otherwise it would have been over one way or another a lot sooner. Most people or armies unfortunate enough to encounter a balrog rarely got to encounter anything else. Remember that this balrog had single-handedly *wiped out* (except for the few that ran away) the entire dwarf nation at Khazad-dum. Gandalf solo countered this level of force for 10 days straight, with no staff (but obviously plenty of magic was involved due to the length of fight); therefore the staff - while it may make focusing his power easier, doesn't seem to hamper his ability much by its loss.
We could assume, then, that the other Istari, could do magic just fine without their staffs - but as part of their mission, they were not supposed to do it in front of other people. The staff is also a symbol of authority from the Valar - a permission to do magic - like a police officer's badge on public display. Every use of magic in the books *in front of other people* used the staff - both as a focusing tool, and as symbol of authority. Saruman never took Gandalf's staff in the books - one reason being was that it would exceed his authority to do so. He could ask Gandalf to surrender it (and Gandalf the White does exactly this - he asks Saruman politely for his staff as a symbol of goodwill). When Gandalf shatters the staff of Saruman, he does so with the enhanced authority from Eru (who has taken over the Valar's now-failed Istari project (Alatar and Pallando are MIA, Radagast is lost in his hobbies, Saruman is rogue, and Gandalf is dead) and altered Gandalf's power levels and mission parameters). He very publicly removes Saruman's authority to act. There is debate if "casting him from the order" changed his nature as well, possibly removing his ability to use any of his innate power.
When Saruman is killed in the Shire: "For a moment [the gray mist] wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing." This indicates that the spirit of Curunir was in Saruman still, and I would posit that he could have still done magic without his staff, but even in his fallen state he still yearned for the West and even in his long fall never broke the restraint of using magic once his authority to do so had been taken. Or it could be that Gandalf sealed him away when he shattered his staff and cast him from the order.
One thing I'd add, artefacts in Middle Earth are imbued with the spirit of their creator (Silmarils/Feanor, The Ring/Sauron, Sam's rope from Lorien, Eol's dark sword, etc). So even if a staff is relatively inert, it would likely have some element of spirit or consciousness. So Gandalf's first staff would perhaps have something of a craftsman of valinor in it - potent but otherworldly, where his second staff would be imbued with the spirit of Lorien, giving Gandalf the White a deeper connection to Middle Earth. But yeah, both a tool and a badge of rank.
I think that Saruman placed Gandalf on Orthanc with his staff because of how arrogant and cocky he was. After all, even when he had lost his armies and Orthanc, he was bitter and refused to stop, as he made clear to Gandalf and the Hobbits when they encountered each other on their way back to the Shire. When he later attacked the Shire and was defeated, he insulted Grima and this pissed him off which led to his death. Saruman's arrogance led to his downfall. He did not believe that Gandalf could escape from Orthanc, and also may have hoped to convert him to his cause, perhaps by making him see his industrial works in making the Uruk-hai, and by making escape hopeless.
Good summation. For comparison: does a sword have any intrinsic power? No. Does it amplify the power of the person wielding it? Yes. The same applies to a staff.
In the movies, it seems to work a bit like a capacitor. It charges up from Gandalf himself, and runs out periodically. But the power does not derive originally from the staff.
gandalf had the legendary skill: converting herbs to smoke.
@Anatoli Smorrin Stop lol
I too have that power. Does that mean I’m an Istar?
@Anatoli Smorrin the best chronic in middle earth
I like the idea that the staffs of the Istari were imbued with some of the power of their owners,
but not a lot of it. We can easily infer that if a staff was broken or taken away,
the wizard could replace it with another which would be endowed with suitable energies
in a process known only to those who did it. This would take some, but not much, time.
We were never told what a Hobbit (for example) might have been able to do with a wizard's staff.
Probably nothing, or so little that it would not matter.
Some mysteries must remain to keep us interested.
This is it! I love it!
You are Geek the Great!
Gandalf lost his staff in Dol Gul Dor when he tried to fight Sauron. The staff he lost when fighting the Balrog, was Radagast the Brown’s.
I read somewhere staffs were also a safety measure in case you miss cast a destructive spell, if you use a staff, the staff will explode instead of your hand.
The background music, "White Palace" from the Hollow Knight soundtrack--I was just listening to this piece not 30 minutes ago! Wanted to pop in to say that was a nice choice, and if you haven't tried the game it is also very beautiful.
On the staffs, what you describe feels right. Something to focus their power through but also with symbolic power. The wizards never really seemed to be so definite in how they wielded power, using foresight, social manipulation, inspiration or anything else as much as any obvious magic.
I suspect they or the istari alone could each have a rod or staff like a mystical signature weapon for anyone else it is a piece of wood but in Gandalfs hands it is a wizards staff and magical weapon, there is a line from suruman saying Gandalf wanted the rods of the 5 wizards.
Yeah but did they craft their own staffs?
@@GeekZoneMT well Gandalf got his second one from galadriel if memory serves along with his white robes, two towers I believe, I think they can but they didn't as far as we know, I believe it's a focusing device
Saruman just took another staff from his staff locker.
Remember when Gandalf lost his battle against Saruman who'd picked up both staffs spinning Gandalf around by his face?
It was as if they were being used to accomplish different tasks. One used to spin Gandalf and the other to levitate him in that awkward position.
Right good point!
It's truely amazing, the lore of the Tolkien Universe. Such mystery, both represented in struggle, poetry, and just pure magnificent
Nanny Ogg (singing): Oh, a Wizard's staff has a knob on the end...
I challenge al of you to a drinking game - take a shot every time you hear “staff”😎
You chose to drink alcohol, you chose... poorly
Excellent videos. Keep them coming. With love from Malta.
I've always imagined that wizards could make new staffs after one was lost or broken. The act of making a staff would bind it to the wizard.
The staff's power is determined by how much depth it can go inside the cave 😏🙈
The greatest power in Gandalf striking the bridge was like drawing a circle in Wicca. He delineated a magical boundary that could not be broached. Wasn't so much that he broke the bridge as he just drew a line and said "You shall not pass." What destroyed the staff was that it had to overcome the will of the Balrog itself. Everything is a battle of wills
True it might even have been the power of the will of the Balrog that destroyed the bridge, much like it caused the doorway to collapse earlier.
It seems they WANT a staff, and will almost always USE the staff when they have it, but they don't absolutely NEED it. Does that mean it helps them in some way by being an external focus? It seems when they don't use a staff it makes them more 'spent' afterwards, so perhaps they have to use less internal magical energy to cast a spell when using the staff? Maybe also makes casting the spell faster?
As for Saruman letting Gandalf keep his staff, it may have just been the author needing to have Gandalf keep it and didn't want to write in a whole scene of him getting it back somehow, so he just kind of threw it in so the story could proceed without an ugly mechanic getting in the way.
Greatest LOTR lore channel ever!!
I enjoy your videos, thanks for the lore
Also, gandalf's appearance was heavily modeled on the imagery of Odin in disguise as a wandering old man where he had concealed Gungnir as his walking stick. This helps lend credence to the analysis that the staffs were crafted with either Valinorian or Noldorin expertise to imbue them with hidden powers, even if not as the direct purpose as a weapon.
Amplifiers and focusers for the Wizards inner powers, but the staffs have some inate power of their own too
The reference of: "his voice the only weapon he had left" has a good meaning as one of the wizard's powers of magic was "Words of Power" some old powerful spells that if spoken could rend and tear or empower items or people around them. I feel this has a place in how all the wizards at that time had the power to influence the people of Middle-earth. But at times of great danger could also be used as a weapon of unimaginable damage as none could know of such raw power of words. And we have seen how words alone can cause such damage and beauty in Tolkien's works.
For gaming purposes, I allow a Wizard to place up to 1/2 of his Casting Pts into an object (staff, ring, etc), thereby doubling the embedded CP. If the item is broken...*ouch*. Sauron exceeded the 1/2 CP limit by a darn sight when he forged the Ruling Ring; we see what happened when it was destroyed.....
Love your vids; well researched, beautifully presented!
A staff is like a wand
Each and every wizard's staff contained a crystal.
Crystals have been known for ages in the occult community to have the ability to store a wealth of energy. It can be drawn from them, and it can be replenished.
The staff provided a channel through which their power travelled, and the crystal provided a point at which it could be gathered and honed to a very, very fine point.
The reason this is necessary is because the world around us is an absolute cacophony of energies- each being and object with its own unique signature. Some are lesser, some are greater.
So the wizard's power, if used merely through his extremities alone, would have had to contend mightily with all these other energies, and might easily be drowned out among them, producing little to no effect.
The staff and crystal, however, made it possible to put an awful lot of raw force behind that power, thus allowing it to punch through the massive resistance of the other energies present and make itself heard amongst the chaos so to speak.
Very much like using a bullhorn to make yourself heard above a crowd.
yeah i think you nailed it at the end there, they are just a status thing like a crown or scepter. they may have had a bonus of helping them get use to being in the body of a man, let alone an old one, helping them to walk and in the same way, helping them to use their magic, though i cant imagine they would not be able to use their magic (or walk) without them.... they are Maiar after all. Also if they held power, Saruman would have one, or any of the other Maiar.
Having enjoyed your videos for quite a while, I must say, I like the current Attenborough voice, but the previous narrators accent was made for Middle-earth lore and I do hope you'll make a return. Even if just for special videos.
Remember when Saruman said something about Gandalf hoping to acclaim all five wizards' staffs alongside the keys of Barad-dúr and the crowns of the seven (dwarven?) kings? It seems they are somewhat precious even if a wizard could craft a new one
Geek zone why did Saruman leave behind in Orthanc such Valuable treasures in the closet of Orthanc? Does this show that he plan to return there? And what were the plans of Saruman did he plan to try to come back and try to take over the world? or did he want to do as much damage as possible? and could he not destroy such valuable items?
It does not beg the question. It raises the question.
I always wondered why Saruman didn't take Gandalf's Elven Ring.
a good question.
@@goncaloferreira6429 Yes, because in Unfinished Tales it spoke about Saruman discovering the Cirdan giving the ring of fire to Gandalf and it added to Saruman's jealousy of Gandalf. Then again he didn't take Gandalf's staff either. Maybe is some way Saruman wasn't capable?
Totally agree with your points. I think it helps to view them as any tool or weapon, in a way. Many of your arguments could be made about a hammer or sword as well. The finer the craft and the material, the better it can fully convey the power and skill of its wielder. Just like Aragorn no doubt could throw a mean punch, his weapon amplifies and concentrates his strength. The staff's effect may or may not be in proportion to other tools, but the idea is still the same.
I'm a little torn on this subject. I fully admit that the greater beings in Tolken's lore could embew ordinary objects with powers. There's a part of me too that wants to believe that (at least in Gandalf's case) the wizard's staff was for deceptive advantage. Making everyone believe there is a source of power where there is not and hiding the real source of power is a theme Tolken uses with Gandalf a few times. I might be imagining it but I still like to think it.
Like how a wizard arrives perscisely when he means to! It's all part of their wisdom
Grima panicking over them not taking his staff definitely proves that it's a powerful tool why they need it idk maybe it helps anchor them to middle earth
Simple Saruman left Gandalf with his staff because he knew Gandalf had no mana left. Especially with the massive debuffs, Saruman inflicted upon him.
Boom!!! I kind down your comment door as soon as I saw to upload!!! Yessss more lord of the Rings
Thanks man 👊
Ive been away for a while. New narrator? Colab? What have i missed?!
I'm busy with studies for now, so I'm outsourcing the narration :)
@@GeekZoneMT ah thats fair. Happy to hear another one of your lore videos
I always thought it was clear the staffs enhanced and/or focused a wizard's powers but weren't essential to the wizard having them. Breaking a wizard's staff would limit his abilities until such time as he could get a new one, which I would think would require someone with powers to create.
Maybe they were like the Ring, but only a little. Probably though, I think they were mostly a prop; something to make the Maiar look less godlike and more human. Still seems like a dangerous precedent for others to see the big hero being a magic user and not think that is what it takes to win, especially with all the elves around.
I think Saruman didn't confiscate Gandalf's staff at Orthanc because Saruman was probably sure he was stronger than Gandalf but also that he would join him.
exactly what he said
I dunno; I always assumed Saruman had taken it, but a wizard and his staff are not so easily separated. Saruman of course knew that, so probably kept track of it, somehow. So Gandalf didn't 'summon' his staff until it was time to leave.
I agree the staff was like a lens; but had (a) limitation(s), why else would Gandalf cast the ray of light by hand? Comments?
Great video in a great series. :)
For the first few minutes of this video I was expecting VaatiVidya to pop up and talk about Rom the Vacuous Spider.
I always understood it to be like a badge of office, like how if a policeman has his badge ripped off while apprehending someone, he doesn't lose any authority since the badge is merely symbolic (e.g. Gandalf lost his staff on Khazad-dum but still took down the Balrog, or needed to have his staff when freeing Theoden the way an officer needs to present a warrant). But if his superior takes the badge away from him due to misconduct, he is no longer allowed to exercise his powers to enforce the law - He'll still have the skills he learned, but no longer has the right to use them as freely.
Excellent video. I’m glad you didn’t do like so many other channels and try and voice act and narrate the characters.
Gandalf fought and defeated the Balrog without his staff. I agree they were conduits to focus the magic but not crucial.
A wizard has a staff with a knob on the end of it
I figured it was like a governor on an engine. Since he isn't supposed to be full Maia when he's in Middle Earth the staff is the only way he can use his abilities. And it only allows some of his abilities to be used and without it he can't do anything.
I don't know as they're amplifiers so much as a convenient focus. I feel its quite possible that Wormtongue believed that they were more because he'd seen Saruman use his staff as a focus.
I agree with almost everything, especially the part about the staffs being conduits and focusing-artifacts but not absolutely necessary for a wizard to wield his magic.
I don't know though that they were necessary either as physical props due to their great age. Yes, they were clothed in the bodies of old men and were nowhere near the power of their old Maiar selves, but Gandalf showed remarkable physical stamina in the books. He was able to lift a strongly built young man like Faramir out of the funeral pyre Denethor had made, he was able to ride for hours and days at a time, and most of all he was able to battle a Balrog for days and to overcome it without his staff. Although he may have claimed it was a prop for his great age (as he did at Edoras when confronting the bewitched Theoden King), I don't think it was actually necessary for that reason more for focusing his power in order overcome Saruman's magic.
I totally agree, I never really saw the wizard's staffs as a magic artifact but rather a symbol and a vocal point for the Wizards to use said magic. If the Staffs/Rods had power in of themselves, others would come to wish to possess them, we could see this happening in the case of the Blue Wizards and their rumored death, would Sauron not want to possess their rods to increase his power, but seeing that these rods are merely a vocal point and symbol of one's power, Sauron had he actually killed the Blue Wizards would have kept them in Barad Dur as a prize and display of victory over the Wizards. Could you imagine the Mouth of Sauron (or Mordu for those who actually know his "name") coming out of the Black Gate with one of the Blue Wizard's staffs? I for one think that it would have been awesome, without question it could have made the situation look even more dire for the West, especially Gandalf who would sense who the staff belonged to, and to see it twisted by Sauron for his purpose.
My theory is that the staffs are basically binding contracts and also catalysts, representations of the agreement the Istari made with the Vallar, not to use their Devine powers beyond a certain point. And when using magic without them it’s more difficult for the wizards to use their powers without risking breaking the rule they needed to follow.
I personally believe, that the staffs were powerless. The sole reason for that being the fact that Saruman didn’t take Gandalf’s staff. It is common knowledge that Saruman was jealous of Gandalf ever since they arrived in Middle Earth. This jealousy was many times amplified by two events. First when Gandalf was given Narya, the ring of fire, and thus recognized as the greatest of the Istari by Kirden. And the second event was when Galadriel requested Gandalf to lead the white order. Gandalf was the only one of the Istari that Saruman considered his equal so I think there is no way he’d let him keep his stuff if it had any power whatsoever. The only power I think it had was symbolic. People of Middle Earth could recognize one of the order just by looking at it and that’s why it also struck fear in any who were facing it.
Amazing artwork
Why are balrogs believed to be these massive creatures, when men are remembering for slaying them. Are we overstating the power of the Balrogs? Did humans and elfs kill them by hitting their toes? If any man or elf went against the movie adaptation of the balrog this would simply not be possible.
Given that Tolkien was a devout catholic, I think that the wizard's staff is also a reference to the bishop's staff.
Like the Istari, the staff is a famous symbol for representing their rank and many official duties during Mass are done while holding the staff (not because of some inherent properties of the wood but, again, as a symbol of their title).
Agreed on focus
Interesting point about Sauruman not taking Gandalf's staff in the book. Because in the movie he does take it during their fight. Just an interesting divergent point.
A magnifying glass doesn't create light, but in bending and focusing light, in can magnify one's ability to see... or to start fires.
It seems clear that a wizard's staff is both a powerful tool and his symbol of office, so I definitely agree that in breaking Saruman's staff, he was symbolically removing him from the order.
I can't remember if Saruman has a new staff when he shows up at the end in the Shire. If not, maybe staffs require the craft of elves to create?
Thank you, love your channel.
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Galandriel give Gandolf his new staff when he returned in two towers. Could it be they can't make their own but can only be given by a "staff maker". If a wizard can just make a new one then couldn't Gamdolf just grab a piece of wood long enough or is there some ritual/spell than need to be done in crafting a new staff?
I dont know much about the extended lore of Middle Earth, nor about the books. Ive just started reading fellowship so my knowledge is limited.
I believe Gandalf was rejuvenated by the valar after his fight with the balrog and upon the realizing that their chief wizard was in league with the old enemy they gave their most faithful servant the power to assume the position. And the staff was remade with him. The staffs are conduits for their power and I don’t think they can be made in middle earth as they are a gift of valar
Good theory but according to lore Gandalf’s new staff was given to him by Galadriel after he went to lothlorien when he was revived
Staffs are possibly a combination of the mentioned uses: spell focus, symbol of authority, & practical tool to lean upon. The staffs might have had some spells cast upon them directly, to enhance their usefulness & sturdiness, but weren't inherently magical. I suspect Saruman not taking Gandalf's staff was a combination of arrogance, accommodation to placate Gandalf, & perhaps some spells set upon the imprisonment area that were designed to weaken Gandalf's magic (the latter being my conjecture.)
8:34 Lol I heard that as "week-old men" at first
I think the reason Saruman didn't take Gandalf's staff was because trying to do so would have lead to a real fight between the two. Much like the fight between Gandalf and the Balrog, it would have taken a great toll on Saruman to win that fight and he simply couldn't afford the time and effort to do so. Also I agree that his goals with capturing Gandalf were to recruit him at best and delay him at worst. Had it not been for Gwihir, Saruman may have been able to keep Gandalf sequestered long enough to force him to cooperate if only to keep the ring out of Sauran's hands.
The power of a Wizard's staff is presumably located at its apex, as the song says 'A wizard's staff has a knob on the end'.
(Shameless Discworld reference.)
Haven't watched this channel in a hot minute... Anyone care to explain why this guy's voice is a LOT deeper than I remember it being?
Previous dude went to university or something, so current dude is acting as narrator -- I'm not entirely sure if it's a temporary or permanent arrangement tho 🤔
I suggest you to make a summary of lord of the rings book or maybe just the parts which were not cover in movies
You you realize you just said that their staffs act like most fantasy staffs as I focusing point for power which I called before you even started the video but I still love you
I've always been of the mind that the staff is a vessel where they put their true divine power since they are basically demigods or Angels trapped in Old Men bodies to act as a guide in the fight against Sauron they have to constantly pull their punches and the staff regulates that power and and without it they may unleash their full power or lose it all together
I didn’t realise that Saruman hadn’t confiscated Gandalf’s staff whilst he was imprisoned at the top of Orthanc!
Thanks guys
In The Two Towers, Gandalf needed his staff to break the curse on King Theoden.
Can you talk about how wizards can do physical combats in LOTR? and have high physical endurance?