one interesting thing Ive always loved is when Saruman is killed it says a mist like a man rises from his body and looks west then a wind from the west blows it away. Which represents Saruman’s spirit being rejected by the valar
I always loved that Olorin/Gandalf was considered the wisest of the Maiar, and he was the one who didn't want to go. He was afraid of Sauron, and unsure of his abilities. In the end though, it was his wisdom and tempered nature that allowed him to reject the allure of power, and allowed him to guide the forces of Good to victory. He was the one Istari who completed the quest that they were sent forth to perform. I don't think there will ever be another writer quite like Tolkien.
@@Fingolfin8888 Glorfindel wasn’t sleeping, he briefly passed through the Halls of Mandos and was then “recasted” again, living first for some time in Valinor and then coming back to Middle Earth.
@@Chance-cv6wl It is said that the Blue Wizards did achieve important things in the East, probably weakening the Enemy’s forces that came from there. As we know, it was but for some details that the good side managed to defeat Sauron’s armies in the Pellenor, so it seems that the works of the Blue Wizards were decisive indeed.
Yeah, exatly. We dont know aloz about theyer work in the east. Imaginr way bigger army coming to palenor fields from there, might be game over. Palenor fields was close victory for gandalf and the crew. Also, i dont see reason why everyone thinks radegast failed his duty. Imo he did what he was suposted to do, so zhe theory "gandalf is the only istari who stays true to his duty" is one i realy dont like
Tolkien's Wizards in one line: "It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule.”
Nerds will be nerds I guess... Passive aggressive. Condescending. As witnessed by these replies. You're such brilliant Tolkein lore specialists. And apparently Tolkein level linguists as well. Is that random?
There is and interview with Mckellen and Lee, where they talk about how they played their characters, and what's the approach to playing a character who isn't human. They both show excellent understanding of the differences between Gandalf and Saurman. Ian says he plays Gandalf as mostly human. He accepts his human like form that gets weary and has many of the limitations of a physical body. Lee theorized that Saruman resents his physical form, that such a powerful entity should have to endure mortal limitations and interact with lesser beings. So he decided to play him with a more inhuman air. It was truly perfect casting for Ian to get Gandalf and Christopher (who wanted Gandalf) to be told you'd make a better Saruman. Plus with what we know about the power of the 'Voice of Saruman' I can't think of a better voice for pulling that off.
When it was mentioned that Saruman had special abilities in his voice, I thought, "It was a great choice to cast Christopher Lee in the movies then." Haha
Christopher Lee would've made a great Gandalf, but he absolutely kills it as Saruman. That production must have been blessed because they got the casting so incredibly perfect
A part of the casting choice was because Lee was in or approaching his 80s at that point and couldn't really do as much of the harder stuff Gandalf had to. Hell, there's a behind the scenes clip of him having trouble just climbing a few stairs in what was supposed to be a continuous shot, forcing them to put a cut to Gandalf's face so that they could help him get up the stairs to complete the shot. If the films had been made when he was a younger man, he almost surely would have been Gandalf, since Tolkien personally approved of that as a casting choice.
Who better to play Saruman, than an actor who built his acting career playing a great and noble figure, who gained fame fighting dark armies and evil lords of darkness, but ended up by being the immortal prince of undying darkness himself? Years as the infamous Prince Vlad Dracula were a training ground, to bring Saruman, fallen Maia and lord of evil to the screen.
Lee would've made a great Gandalf, but I think he would have played him as less "human" than Ian did. A bit more high and lordly. Whereas Ian played up Gandalf's humanity
Love how in most fantasy settings, wizards are beings or people who took an interest in magic and stuff, but in Lotr they are straight up basically angels.
Not true, both men and angels/lower-gods/Maiar can get addicted to wisdom. Like a drunkard is addicted to drinking, a wizard is addicted to wisdom. Isn't it Radagast himself mentions that no human wizard can be as special as Mithrandir/Istari are, when they are talking about the rumors of the Necromancer. I think Gandalf the Great even mentions that there are plenty of human and inhuman "conjurors of cheap tricks" out there, not "fakers of cheap tricks" but actual conjurors of weak powers that one must know the trick to doing them.
the fire metaphors in the legendarium are so interesting. on the one hand, fire is associated with light, warmth, and creation. on the other it's associated with terror and destruction. it's associated with Eru (the "secret fire") but also with Sauron. the ring is created and destroyed by fire. the balrog and Gandalf use the opposing sides of fire magic against each other. fire lights the beacons between Gondor and Rohan; but fire also nearly kills Faramir. the great eye is wrapped in flame--but the stars Sam sees in the sky that bring him hope are also great balls of flame. fire is power itself, and it can be good or bad based on who wields it and how they treat it.
One of my favorite things about LotR is how when Tolkien reaches his creative limits (wide limits indeed), he blends them so cleanly with the limits of the reader's own knowledge. The Wizards' abilities are a perfect example of this. They're a shadowy mix of conventional "magic" and spell systems, chemistry, technology, and other "secret crafts" that our world just doesn't have parallels for. What I'm saying is, even though Tolkien can't really go into detail on things like that, which are just beyond our real-world understanding, he blends it so well with a tantalizing air of mystery that it's almost satisfying in itself.
Good point. More mundanely, many writers do something similar when characterizing high-end geniuses, like seeing them through the eyes of more ordinary (but still often smart) characters. That way they don't have to go into detail about the inner workings of those people, which is indeed very hard if you're not a high-end genius yourself.
I imagine that Sauron might have taken a while to realize what the Wizards were, but after the did he probably wondered who they were specifically. When he got ahold of Saruman I imagine he was like "Ah Curumo! It's been a while. You work for me now". He never bothered with Radagast so much, but when Gandalf battled him with his mind, I wonder if he was "OLORIN? REALLY? You dare to face me student of Nienna?" and 10 seconds later he figured out that it was precisely Olorin who had been thwarting his plans all along.
Gandalf's later words about not wanting to yet revealing himself to Sauron directly (by using the Palantír) imply that Sauron wasn't aware that it was Gandalf in particular who "battled" him. This is in accordance with what Galadriel tells Frodo: She can perceive (at least partially) Sauron's intentions, while her own thoughts are hidden from him - all while they are constantly fighting in their minds.
Love your videos man! I used to watch the movies with my grandma before she passed, she loves tolkiens world & watching these videos almost makes me feel closer to her!
I do wish there had been more of a showing of a "good" Saruman, to make his eventual fall actually feel more tragic, but then sources tell us he was bitter, and angry, practically from the beginning, when Cirdan gave Gandalf his ring, and Galadriel sought to give Gandalf leadership of the White Council. He might've been bad even in the east, before we knew anything of his actions, and we don't really get scenes odmf his decency, even if marred by pride. It almost makes me wonder if Aule and Yavanna were actually a happy couple? He created Dwarves, and Yavanna, panicking for what these beings might do with axes, to stoke fires of hearth and forge, asked for Eru to create the Ents to protect her forests. Ayle chose Saruman, and even as he was then, Yavanna feared, and begged they take her Radagast with them. Granted, the Smith had a poor track record; he taught Sauron, and Sauron fell. He taught Feanor (alleged), and Feanor created the Silmarils, which then caused several conflicts, and he refused to part with to literally change the world. His knowledge went to Celebimbor, through Sauron, and we get the Rings of Power, which cause more conflicts. Had he not also made chains to bijd Morgoth, I might question everything he had a hand in, though I know he, at least, is not malevolent. I wonder why such a skilled craftsman couldn't see the obvious flaws in his tool (Saruman), while even his own loving wife seemed concerned every time he made another new thing.
They say opposites attract… idk about that but maybe that was the idea. Maybe his wife is what prevented him from going down a Morgath type path. I mean Alue wanted to create and Melkor wanted to destroy and taint. But maybe Alue could’ve been his own competing evil tyrant if he didn’t have his wife. I wonder what type of power Alue, Sauron, Saruman, the Noldor (or at least Feanor and his side of the Noldor) and the dwarves could’ve accomplished. Like Alue wasn’t as strong as Melkor in the beginning but he could have made his own one ring and possibly stored the power of Saruman and Sauron and some of his own into it to amplify his own power which would be pretty crazy. Idk. That would be an interesting alternative universe. Alue kills Melkor and basically takes the path of sauron but with his disciples.
@@forfun6273 if aule took saurons spot the istari wouldnt exist and it would be a second valar invasion of middle earth, so all in all id be down to read it haha
We are told explicitly in the first two chapters of the Silmarilion, that all the Ainur (no distinction other than "power level" actually sets Valar apart from Maiar) can clothe themselves in forms of their choosing. More importantly to this discussion, they can walk Arda UNCLAD. In this form, even the mightiest of the Noldor can't detect their presence. I think it's likely that Tolkien considered this in creating Radagast, and Iwendil was a master at moving about while remaining almost impossible to detect. Most people infer that Saruman killed Radagast, or had him killed, but I can't find a passage that is even close to definitive on that subject. I think it possible that Radagast decided to do his best to protect his favourite ecosystems and members of them, and he just pieced out and tended to Mirkwood and or Fangorn. He may be visiting Bombadil, they'd probably find it easy to get along, but as fun an image as it is, there isn't a hint of suggestion that he is off with Tom and Goldberry. However, the familiarity that Gandalf, Elrond, and (I think) Glorfindel speak of Bombadil with suggests that Radagast is very likely to know and be known by old Tom.
I think that's what JRR meant by "hue." In one sense (I think) it means appearance as opposed to physical form but I think it also refers to "appearance" (or lack thereof) in the unseen world. Having seen the light of the Trees is what allows the Noldor to perceive the unseen world, but the Einor are native to it and have power over its substance as well as over the material.
I'm a new subscriber, and have spent the last couple of weeks catching up on your previous videos. While I've been reading LOTR for most of my life, you've kinda opened new points of view for me. So thanks for that!
Would also recommend In Deep Geek, he has great content on lotr as well as other fantasy stories, he has a beautiful and soothing voice even more so than NoTR
Saruman, Gandalf and Radagast all have amazing actors portraying them. [i do hope that the two blue wizards will eventually get great theatrical performers one day]
@@bobo577 I agree. One stern focused, The other loud yet quiet in his steps unless the other wakes. I could certainly see this cast, Hamill being the loud voice yet not the actor.. not until when his force is used to showcase the powers of the light and through it, Sauron noticing his lack in providing an foresight of it till that point. And by the time he can infiltrate to find the blue wizards again but to only find empty air.
Wow 13:00-14:50 in this context about the power of the wizards you can really get a feel for the gravity of that moment and appreciate the skill of Tolkien’s writing. Very very cool. Thank you for producing it 👌🏼
As always, these videos are great not just because of the information Nerd of The Rings gives us, but the art that is used to help convey the Information .
In Gnomish, one of Tolkien's early conceptions of an Elven language, the word for "wizard" is curug (and "witch" is curus). An alternative word is thothweg, also translated as "wizard". In The Hobbit, while no mention is made of an Order of Wizards, Gandalf tells Beorn that Radagast is his "cousin". In the Unfinished Tales it is said that the wizards appeared in Middle-earth about 1000, but in The Peoples of Middle-earth a rough note by J.R.R. Tolkien said that the Blue Wizards (Alatar and Pallando, or Morinehtar and Rómestámo) came much earlier in the Second Age. Christopher Tolkien stated that much of the writings about the Istari are rapid jottings and often illegible.
A note on telepathy; it's strongly implied that Elrond and Galadriel also have this ability. There are at least two passages I can remember directly referencing this ability. Each has their own talents in this regard, but there is a common thread in their abilities which ties to an interesting coincidence. It is interesting to note that the only references (as far as I recall) of such extensive telepathic abilities are only in regard to Elrond, Galadriel and Gandalf, the bearers of The Three. It does stand to reason that, given the nature of the Ring of Power, this is an ability the three rings focus and amplify in these three individuals as opposed to them simply possessing telepathy at this level of proficiency. I personally believe this to be the case. Of course, there are a couple of potential issues with this. One specific mentioned instance comes after the One Ring is destroyed. However, it is mentioned that The Three more faded than lost their power all at once. Plus, when the trio are engaging in their "mind speech" at this point, they are all in close proximity. The other potential issue is with Olorin being mentioned as inspiring the dreams and thoughts of the elves in the early days. While this is a form of telepathy, it's not as refined or focused as what is mentioned the trio possessing. So it is possible that there is some innate ability among them that the rings are able to amplify and focus.
That Was such an Amazing Video Matt! I Really enjoyed that! Good to have all the Lore put In a way to Follow it so well and enjoy learning about it! Thanks so much!
Tolkien is more well known for his linguistics rather than his diction, and many readers find his writing dry. Then you read this. "Saruman, your staff is broken.". That, to me, demonstrates the ability for straightforward prose to inspire and evoke fantasy. In a single line, Tolkien indelibly demarcated the wizard archetype: learned ones in tall towers possessed of secret knowledge, with staves to show both their office and their strength, who speak words of power. How absolutely magnificent of an ending for one of the top chapters of the whole six books.
It is quite curious that for all modern high fantasy and D&D owe to Tolkien and his work, his style of magic is so very different from what we are used to now. Specially with D&D we see magic as a science of sorts, a thing to study, to classify, spells to be researched and then applied through formulas, artifacts developed with the precision of machines, schools of magic not unlike our colleges. And yet Tolkien would have none of that and might have even found the idea of it rather comical or even senseless… his magic is a thing of wonder and mystery, a thing of mind and soul. It would seem that for the Istari and the Eldar, the work of their arts and lore (which they emphatically do not refer to as magic), is as an act of the will upon the world, to manifest the ethereal into the physical through a mastery of the spirit, and knowledge of the world seen and unseen, well beyond the understanding of the younger races (readers included). That is why there can be no hard and clear rules, mechanisms and limitations, for such are the ways of the material plane, while their powers exist in another, and to try to understand it in terms more familiar to us is folly, instead one ought to just marvel at it and bask in the beauty of Tolkien’s work, a magic of its own.
Well, magic has always been a thing of wonder and mystery, that is what fascinates us about it and that is the version that magic always have had in traditional folklore. Originally in the old religions in which the idea of it originated it was the power of the gods which mortals could summon and bend to their will. That is exactly what is in Tolkiens world as well. Even the latter thing of common humans wielding exists in Middle-Earth as well. The Istari are just the most powerful ones.
Tolkien states that men used spells and enchaments to create their fortresses and weapons, many of which we see in Lord of the Rings, it seems the setting used to have magic as a study of men but it has fallen, expect for the evil sorcerers of Sauron
Having not read the book before watching the film, Gandalf's conversation with Bilbo in Bag End, set my imagination on fire. Having studied systems of magic, Gandalf's magic felt so wildly adept. Such masterful character building by Tolkien.
I would really like to see you do one of these on Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth. He was always one of my favorite minor characters of the story and I've always felt Jackson's decision to omit him and his Swan Knights from ROTK was a mistake.
While I do love the hard rules of magics that other fantasy worlds have. I also really love how magic is in Tolkien's world. It is very flexible and feels like a projection of one's emotional state combined with their intent to an extent. Least that's just my casual reader perspective.
I think you are absolutely right. The more powerful beings just perceive and alter the world around them, like lesser beings craft objects out of stone or wood. The Valar control and oversee the entire worlds or aspects of it (like Ulmo who's influence is in all the waters of Arda), while beings like elves and Dúnedain have enhanced abilities and can craft "supernatural" objects. The "softness" even goes so far that Galadriel doesn't understand what Sam means by using the word "magic". Doing what lesser mortal would call "supernatural stuff" is just part of her daily life.
New listener to your channel, this is good stuff, thanks man! I’m sure it’s come up on this channel before, but the BBC radio drama does a great job of Gandalf and Saruman’s final interaction. You can get the audio book for the entire LOtR BBC radio drama on audible. Ian Holm plays Frodo, Bill Nighy plays Sam, Michael Horderns command presence as Gandalf is incredible.
This was an awesome round up! I love hearing about the Istari collectively. I’m definitely one of those for whom they’re some of Tolkien’s most interesting characters; Gandalf has to be my all time favorite of Tolkien’s figures!! He was always (and is) my goal for what I wanna be as a grandad 😝
Ive always been hesitant in watching videos on Tolkien's work. I feel like these kinds of videos are usually opinion based and people tend to interpret his work in all manners of ways. You have changed my mind. Your voice work, the dedication to detail, while actually pulling from the source material, and your disarming tone make these videos easy to digest. Subbed! Time to binge.
Learning from this channel that Saruman's greatest power was his voice it just tickles my heart that Christopher Lee (RIP) got to play him. That man could read a Wendy's receipt and send chills down your spine. I had read that he would've much preferred to play Gandalf, but he wasn't physically capable of meeting the physical demands for the role due to his age, but I think they could never have found a better person to play Saruman and I can only imagine how much he contributed on set being such a fan of Tolkien, most notably the stabbing scene that I'm sure everyone watching this video knows about.
My favorites will always be Gandalf and Radagast. One protects the weak, the other one shows the weak their inner strength. I also like the Blue wizards and their quest to help those who had fallen rise again. And Saruman.... the less said the best.
Looking for some late night content while traveling in Asia, and ofc my guy got the content ready for me!!! Perfect timing man - got the notification and watched it the first minute it came out 👍
You left out one of Gandalf's powers, although it may be more attributable to his ring. The power to give courage and heal the spirit. He not only does this with Theoden, but in Gondor during the siege. As Gandalf passes among the men of Gondor, he is able to counter (at least briefly) the effects of Sauron's cloud of blackness.
I am new to the channel, dunno what you do but I can say you are an amazing story teller, and all quotes you read from the books are so well told that gives me goosebumps. very gj
I think another ability (that wasn't mentioned I think) that can be safely counted among Gandalf's powers is the ability to inspire hope and courage. Of course that's not necessarily a supernatural ability, but those things are hard to nail down in the diffuse and ambiguous magic of middle earth. Also I really love that you didn't try and force hard rules on Tolkien's magic, I can't stand it when people try to apply some hard framework to a soft magic system.
I have not heard the names of the blue wizards Alatar and Pallando since I was a teenager (c35 yrs ago) but I have continually used these two names when describing what the two missing Istari were to friends etc. They would give me that 'wtf are you talking about fool', look and I had started to think this was just something I had read in the many Rolemaster/MERP game modules I played with friends and that it was not original lore but something dreamt up to flesh out the world by ICE (Iron Crown Enterprises wrote/published the rolemaster game modules). Delighted to hear the full detail after so many years - all that is forgotten is not lost.
Saraman must have possessed the ability to shape-shift or, more than likely, cast illusions. At the edge of Fangorn Forest, Gimli sees an old bent man leaning on his staff and wrapped in a great cloak. The old man vanished when Gimli roused Legolas & Aragorn. Later, when the three meet Gandalf the White, Gimli asks if the old man was Gandalf. Gandalf denies it was him. Gandalf also tells Gimli that "Saraman could look like me in your eyes, if it suited his purpose with you." Eomer also mentions "phantoms of Saraman" when meeting the three hunters, but this could simply be colorful speech.
Yet another wonderful vid my friend, thanks much! Like most fans, I've always been enamoured by the Istari and am blessed enough to have all of Tolkien's literature (available) on them to peruse. I was disappointed by the childish treatment PJ provided Radagast however, I think he provided astounding depictions of Gandalf and Saruman, courtesy of the trust instilled in the two actors that no others could have bested in such iconic roles. The circumstance and fate of the two "Blue Wizards" is a tantalizing thought. We of course hope to think that in their own way, they prevented Sauron from converting many more of the East to his cause. Whether or not it cost them their 'human' lives, we'll never know but I personally trust they stayed allied to the cause of the just and righteous. :)
I've always wondered were they simply forbidden to use the full powers of the Maiar, or were their powers actually reduced and unavailable to them even if they wanted to use them? And in the same vein, was Gandalf the White simply allowed to use more powers, or was he actually stronger?
Their powers were limited and those they had were intended to be used as part of their role in supporting and encouraging the Free Peoples to resist Sauron. But there are always exceptions, such as when Gandalf faced the balrog. It's never made entirely clear but I believe Eru Ilúvatar restored to Gandalf his full abilities as a Maia but still had him retain the form of an elderly man to remind him what his mission was.
They were limited, in part to keep them on mission (to encourage the Free Peoples, rather than to take on Sauron themselves). Gandalf sacrificed himself to mortal death to save the Quest but was sent back with his power and wisdom enhanced by Eru, in part to offset the harm done by Saruman going astray. Tolkien covers it off in Letter 156.
Their powers were limited by their bodily form and they had to use them with caution and wisdom, you can't just waste all of your mana right away. There were other Maiar, such as the Balrogs, whom you could ask the same question about. After all, Sauron's powers were also limited, otherwise he would not need an army of orcs and trolls. In addition, staying in secrecy was important to fulfill their mission so they couldn't just leave too many clues to the enemy.
@@popularmisconception1 i dont know man, i think maiar powers weregreat, but not as great to hold dominion over the whole continent without an army, not even the greatest of the valar was able to hold dominion over a continent without the greatest army of orcs and dragons and werewolves ever known, and even there, he had to resort to underganded techniques to win, besides, there is also melian, her powers were not veiled, and even if she had great power, she was not really strong enough to protect little more than a single country
The voice of Saruman was one of my favorite chapters in LOTR, you can see how gifted saruman is in speech but uses it to manipulate, its good Gandalf was there to rebuke him
I love the gentle ebb and flow of beings' lives and mistakes. Aule creating dwarfs to be incorruptible but also his Maiar being Sauron and Saruman. The gentle way that Radagast is sent to mind Saruman, because people are right to be wary of new things etc.
Such a phenomenal channel. Been binging your content for the last week or two. Your writing and narration are excellent, the editing flows very smoothly, and the art selection really brings it all to life. I read The Hobbit and LOTR when I was young, but never got into Tolkien's other works, and learning all this expository information, it's just really cool. Makes me wanna read The Silmarillion, which I almost tried years ago. Thanks for all your work.
"I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow!"
Adding to the list: - Lightning spells. In The Hobbit Gandalf is awakened from his sleep by Bilbo and a flash of light and a loud bang later several of them drop dead. Perhaps more lightning magic like he uses against the Nazgul and Balrog? Those battles are described as flashes of lightning and the hobbits find burn marks at the battle side (Weathertop) later. - Fortitude and stamina. Gandalfs battle with the Balrog lasted several days and nights. That includes non-stop fighting and climbing the mountaintop all the way from the lake they fell in (from a great height which would kill a normal person). - Some kind of magic armor? Gandalf never wears armor despite being on several war battlefields. In the Hobbit an arrow gets stuck in his hat, yet he never feels the need to protect his body from stray arrows and is never hit. - Different disarming spells. In addition to Denethor, when Gimli, Aragorn and Legolas mistakenly attack Gandalf in Fangorn, Gimli's axe becomes too heavy, Aragorns sword becomes to hot and Legolas arrow misses and bursts into flame. - Superhuman reflexes. Continuing on the above point, Legolas is capable of drawing his arrow faster than Eomer can blink. Yet Gandalf can protect himself against Legolas. - Whatever that light thing was he did against the Nazgul to rescue Faramir. - Presumabily all Maiar know Counterspell as was done by Durin's Bane. People often talk about how Gandalf uses little magic. However he seems fairly consistent in choice of magic use to me: lightning spells against supernatural enemies (or if startled) and using his will to empower others during war (which we see Saruman and Sauron do as well). Other spells he uses mostly as utility when the needs arrises. PJ cut back on his use of magic which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing (though the magic duel between Gandalf and Saruman definately was).
After watching the TV series, it made me want to watch both the cinematic trilogies. From The Hobbit : An unexpected Journey all the way to Lord of the rings : The Return of the King. And tbh at the end of it all I found myself wanting more and not satisfied enough. It just couldn't end there, so I'm glad to say I have decided to engulf myself in the world of Tolkien. And have purchased the Four book set on Amazon. 😁 Can't wait for the 31st of OCTOBER 🎉. Also want to thank channels like this, for making the decision that much easier and exciting. If there's one positive the loyal fans of Tolkien can take away from this Amazon series, it's that it is convincing people like me to read and enjoy the books. To further advance our knowledge of the world of Tolkien.
Another time Gandalf uses his fire magic is in The Hobbit when they are stuck in the trees. He lights pinecones in different colors and throws them on the wargs. I wish they did the different colors in the movie, and I also wonder if each color means anything.
@@valentinkambushev4968 reminds me of when in Two Towers film he blasted Legolas' arrow, scorched Aragorn's sword, and just flashed the trio with blinding white light for 20 seconds seemingly just to show off his new Maia powers lol
08:00 I just re-read the trilogy after about a 15 year break. Reminded me that as good as the movies were, they books were still so much better. Gandalfs depiction is one example, he describes himself as more powerful than any being unless he was in front of Sauron himself, fought off 5 of the Nazgul single handedly, and fearlessly faced down the Witch King (opposed to the movie!). Really embodies what you described as hiding power in order to guide people vs taking control through force.
I recently re-watched the cartoon Lord of the Rings classic and thought it would be fun to see how the War of the Ring played out if the role of Gandalf was swapped with a travelling blue wizard who heard news of one of their kind becoming corrupt (Saruman). Or how Saruman of Many Colours would appear in the live-action movies, haha!
Did you ever cover the second Ring forged by Celebrimbor in the Shadow of War game? Not canon obviously, but would be interesting to see the implications of that second ring existing.
He has nothing to cover because the game is fictionally incorrect for what ring of power is. Sauron by the story is Lich. His ring of power takes a part of his soul and puts into a ring. Lich in fiction are humans that learn magical power and become corrupted by the power that ascend them into higher-level being. After they die, They become undead. Undead Lich are able to take their higher-level magical power and craft items that represent their soul. These items are often cursed. They contain a positive in increasing D&D combat stats but lower luck stat. This is why when Isildur when carrying the ring dies through unnatural causes because humans usually have +0 luck statistic, but when you wield the ring of power, your luck stat becomes negative. So for example, isildur when carrying the ring had +5 strength, +5 agility, +5 knowledge, +5 intelligence but he had -5 luck. -5 luck means that the character will have misfortunes in their life that will cause them to die in their life time. In D&D fictions, Undead units cannot gain luck or lose luck because they're not living. They cannot have misfortune in their life because they are already dead. In the case of Tolkien story, Undead units can have luck but because Sauron & Nazgul/Witch king are spirits, Dying to misfortune has no meaning because they are eternal spirits that cannot truly die. In shadow of war, The ring of power are interpreted as mind-control devices which is incorrect to the story and they have the power to grant immortality which is also incorrect. Mind-controlling is type of soft-magic that Saruman showcases. Ishtar can learn this type of soft magic to mind-control beings. A ring of power not grant this ability. The ring of power just boost stats at drawback of lowering other stats. They also do not grant immortality. Instead, they can corrupt the souls of men and turn men into restless spirits(Undead) that are unable to return in the halls of Mandos. Halls of Mandos in Tolkien work is something like Hades for underworld. This is likely an ability that a magical ability that Sauron learned from Morgoth at some point in the story. Morgoth cannot create life but as Maia, He learned to twist life and past this knowledge to Sauron. This high-level dark art is likely something that Sauron cannot perform in thin air, but Sauron being a Lich means that he can craft an items(Rings) then perform dark magic to manipulate the souls of living beings. In theory, he should be able to manipulate all living beings including Elves and Dwarfs but it takes time for his magic to work. The men have weak souls so it is much easier to corrupt the hearts of men and manipulate their spirit as opposed to the other races. Overall, the game has large misinterpretation for how the rings work.
That New Ring thing is VERY non canon and also diminishes the importance of the One Ring. Hell, even the game itself ignores it for most of its runtime as well so you don’t become overpowered. I seriously doubt NoTR would dedicate a video to it.
12:05 Man, imagine how powerful of a ring Saruman could have made if he had Saurons knowledge, or aid. Though obviously if Sauron had a hand in it, it would not be as powerful and would likely not be for Saruman's full benefit
@@istari0 same here, I've wondered about that a bunch. Like maybe it could sense the power of other magical objects, to help him find the One Ring; because he was secretly searching for that for a long time
I think the main difference is the other rings. The One Ring was created to dominate the others and so make their power part of its own. Also, like his master, Sauron poured the majority of his own power into the ring, thus focusing and increasing it in some ways and limiting it in others. It doesn't seem like Saruman made quite as heavy an investment, but that's just a hunch.
* clarification: Morgoth did not forge a piece of jewelry. His "ring" is Arda, and the fact that he put the bulk of his power into it is both why he becomes weak enough to defeat when he starts out strong enough to face all of the Valar together and why he isn't completely gone even after his spirit is cast out Ea.
@@chriscuda8686 Saruman's power at Isengard and his military might was described, when compared to the Barad-dur, as being "like a child imitating his father's work". I imagine his Ring was probably on that level, when compared to the One Ring; a imitation of it's power. Of all the things people wrote and asked Tolkien about, I wish someone had asked about Saruman's ring, but he likely would have left most of it to our imaginations
I know soft-magic systems don't fully define abilities, but if we had to I'd say the Istari abilities are: 1. Command: (ability to speak statements that immediately materialize as facts "your staff is broken") 2. Telekinesis: (move objects with their minds (Saruman swinging Gandalf around)) 3. Telepathy: (Gandalf speaking to Frodo) (swerves into mind-control with Saruman, perhaps in conjunction with Command.) 4. Transformation: (Radagast, but Valar and Maiar generally have this ability) 5. Nature Control: (ability to break/manipulate rocks, expand fire, make lights, wind/storms, control animals) (I'd place Saruman's snow avalanche here + Command speech) 6. Protective Barriers: (the spell in Moria, but also Gandalf's shield when battling Durin's Bane) 7. Premonitions: (having a connection to the future, knowing what will happen, at least in a vague sense.) (a bit like Galadriel but not as powerful) --- I think these 7 powers covers most things? What did I miss?
After reading all this, about how the Istari were confused at first and so on, the Rings of Power adaptation now feels faithfull and actually makes a lot more sense!
In the DnD campaign my friend set up for us, the 2 blue wizards turned.... Became the black, and the red... Built a massive army, swept across Rohan, and captured Minas Tirith... Their goal with the power they had built up.... To open the Doors of Night, releasing Morgoth upon Middle Earth... It was an amazing campaign, and I'm almost sad we were successful, cuz seeing the results of Morgoth being unleashed sounds pretty insane...
Not me just searching on youtube "what are the power of the Istari?" Knowing you didn't have a video on it, only to have this video to pop up, thanks as always
I'm going to be disappointed if he is Gandalf. I wanted to see a Wizard we haven't seen before and it would make much more sense if he is one of the Blue Wizards Tolkien lore wise.
I actually don't think it will be Gandalf. I mean sure the hints were strongly suggesting it will be Gandalf,but with their journey leading them to Rhûn in the next season, I hope those hints were just hints that he is one of Gandalfs type, not Gandalf himself✌️
It's pretty much the one and only canonical answer to this plot-device disguised as a riddle. He arrives during the 2nd age and he travels to the East. Gandalf arrived in the 3rd age and explicitly states that he never traveled to the east, whereas the blue wizards were said to have gone there.
What I'm curious about is this: do the colors of the wizards have an meaning for their powers/strength. To me it seams that Saruman though becoming "many colored" would enhance his power but backfired and Gandalf becoming " the white" did increase his powers imensly. Along with his line "I am Saurman, rather Saruman as he should have been, to me implies the names they took as Istari were tied to their power as much as their identity and he had the company refer to him as Gandalf for their comprehension not because he was still Gandalf, if that makes sense.
Strength no but dominion perhaps yes. Each istari presided over a specific station such as Saruman the white:just rulership, gandalf the grey: wisdom/knowledge, Radaghast the brown: nature, and Pallando the blue: magic. Those colors kinda correlate their function rather than their actual strength.
I remember from reading the books that there're no formalized spells cast by the istari. When gandalf lights the pinecones on fire to throw at the wargs, he does cry out in Sindarin (edit) but translated is 'Fire be for saving us'. The movie depicts gandalf perform some kind of healing similarly on Frodo. In Tolkien's system, magic is more like exertions of will or prayer.
there are a lot of ancient enchanted items, obviously the rings, but also the swords of the wights, sting, and many fortresses that are enchanted in some vague way, it seems like formal magic did exist but it has since been lost
One is never late to a Nerd of the Rings video.. Nor is he early! He arrives precisely when he needs to!
I have to cross worlds here....50 points to Griffyndor
100th like wooo
Yes!!!
Exactly... Right on time...
@@larryroberts3598 Isn't Dumbledore a Maiar as well?
I love the moments in the movies when Gandalf uses his deep and scary voice. I often refer to it as his "Maiar voice".
I use this voice, whenever my students are not listening.
I usually call it his "daddy voice" but maybe that's just me
Yo, the way he says "krimpatul" during The Council of Elrond is buttered toast.
@@pault.6653 Ive replayed that part many times
DO NOT TAKE ME FOR A CONJURER OF CHEAP TRICKS!!!
one interesting thing Ive always loved is when Saruman is killed it says a mist like a man rises from his body and looks west then a wind from the west blows it away. Which represents Saruman’s spirit being rejected by the valar
It finalised the evil for the Shire and gave the hobbits back their own land.
So that's why Saruman retired to Florida!
Absolutely didn't notice that! Need to revisit the book again...
I always loved that Olorin/Gandalf was considered the wisest of the Maiar, and he was the one who didn't want to go. He was afraid of Sauron, and unsure of his abilities. In the end though, it was his wisdom and tempered nature that allowed him to reject the allure of power, and allowed him to guide the forces of Good to victory. He was the one Istari who completed the quest that they were sent forth to perform. I don't think there will ever be another writer quite like Tolkien.
Nobody knows what the Blue Wizards accomplished in secret. I feel they held a great part in stirring forces from the east.
@@Fingolfin8888 Glorfindel wasn’t sleeping, he briefly passed through the Halls of Mandos and was then “recasted” again, living first for some time in Valinor and then coming back to Middle Earth.
@@Chance-cv6wl It is said that the Blue Wizards did achieve important things in the East, probably weakening the Enemy’s forces that came from there.
As we know, it was but for some details that the good side managed to defeat Sauron’s armies in the Pellenor, so it seems that the works of the Blue Wizards were decisive indeed.
@@Fingolfin8888 oh yes, I was just pointing that there would be no problem for Glorfindel to come back to Middle Earth earlier than the Third Age.
Yeah, exatly. We dont know aloz about theyer work in the east. Imaginr way bigger army coming to palenor fields from there, might be game over. Palenor fields was close victory for gandalf and the crew. Also, i dont see reason why everyone thinks radegast failed his duty. Imo he did what he was suposted to do, so zhe theory "gandalf is the only istari who stays true to his duty" is one i realy dont like
Tolkien Wizards in one line :
" Do not take me for some conjurer of cheap tricks. I am not trying to rob you. I'm trying to help you. "
Expect Saruman.
@@valentinkambushev4968 He had the same purpose, same destiny...To Help. But went against it and paid the price.
Tolkien's Wizards in one line: "It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule.”
Amazon wizards in one line :
"spare some change?"
It starts by someone saying that, and then slowly their good intentions become oppressive, then onerous, and then diabolical.
I always enjoy when new or casual fans realize that Gandalf, The Balrog and Sauron are of the same kind: Maiar.
ITS CRAZY! 😂
so glad you did not say random fan , don't why word has crept into near every sentence
This was my husband. Had to pause the movie while he processed 😂
@@martinkerr2721 People probably don't appreciate what the word "random" means in a statistical sense and use it as a flippant statement.
Nerds will be nerds I guess... Passive aggressive. Condescending. As witnessed by these replies. You're such brilliant Tolkein lore specialists. And apparently Tolkein level linguists as well. Is that random?
There is and interview with Mckellen and Lee, where they talk about how they played their characters, and what's the approach to playing a character who isn't human. They both show excellent understanding of the differences between Gandalf and Saurman. Ian says he plays Gandalf as mostly human. He accepts his human like form that gets weary and has many of the limitations of a physical body. Lee theorized that Saruman resents his physical form, that such a powerful entity should have to endure mortal limitations and interact with lesser beings. So he decided to play him with a more inhuman air. It was truly perfect casting for Ian to get Gandalf and Christopher (who wanted Gandalf) to be told you'd make a better Saruman. Plus with what we know about the power of the 'Voice of Saruman' I can't think of a better voice for pulling that off.
When it was mentioned that Saruman had special abilities in his voice, I thought, "It was a great choice to cast Christopher Lee in the movies then." Haha
Christopher Lee would've made a great Gandalf, but he absolutely kills it as Saruman. That production must have been blessed because they got the casting so incredibly perfect
A part of the casting choice was because Lee was in or approaching his 80s at that point and couldn't really do as much of the harder stuff Gandalf had to. Hell, there's a behind the scenes clip of him having trouble just climbing a few stairs in what was supposed to be a continuous shot, forcing them to put a cut to Gandalf's face so that they could help him get up the stairs to complete the shot.
If the films had been made when he was a younger man, he almost surely would have been Gandalf, since Tolkien personally approved of that as a casting choice.
Who better to play Saruman, than an actor who built his acting career playing a great and noble figure, who gained fame fighting dark armies and evil lords of darkness, but ended up by being the immortal prince of undying darkness himself? Years as the infamous Prince Vlad Dracula were a training ground, to bring Saruman, fallen Maia and lord of evil to the screen.
Lee would've made a great Gandalf, but I think he would have played him as less "human" than Ian did. A bit more high and lordly. Whereas Ian played up Gandalf's humanity
Love how in most fantasy settings, wizards are beings or people who took an interest in magic and stuff, but in Lotr they are straight up basically angels.
Not true, both men and angels/lower-gods/Maiar can get addicted to wisdom. Like a drunkard is addicted to drinking, a wizard is addicted to wisdom. Isn't it Radagast himself mentions that no human wizard can be as special as Mithrandir/Istari are, when they are talking about the rumors of the Necromancer. I think Gandalf the Great even mentions that there are plenty of human and inhuman "conjurors of cheap tricks" out there, not "fakers of cheap tricks" but actual conjurors of weak powers that one must know the trick to doing them.
@@letsomethingshine the witch king, when he was still human was a Sorcerer
the fire metaphors in the legendarium are so interesting. on the one hand, fire is associated with light, warmth, and creation. on the other it's associated with terror and destruction. it's associated with Eru (the "secret fire") but also with Sauron. the ring is created and destroyed by fire. the balrog and Gandalf use the opposing sides of fire magic against each other. fire lights the beacons between Gondor and Rohan; but fire also nearly kills Faramir. the great eye is wrapped in flame--but the stars Sam sees in the sky that bring him hope are also great balls of flame. fire is power itself, and it can be good or bad based on who wields it and how they treat it.
Yes, because powers dont have moral, power is just a tool
Feanor: Okay I am a bit of both here I guess
One of my favorite things about LotR is how when Tolkien reaches his creative limits (wide limits indeed), he blends them so cleanly with the limits of the reader's own knowledge. The Wizards' abilities are a perfect example of this. They're a shadowy mix of conventional "magic" and spell systems, chemistry, technology, and other "secret crafts" that our world just doesn't have parallels for. What I'm saying is, even though Tolkien can't really go into detail on things like that, which are just beyond our real-world understanding, he blends it so well with a tantalizing air of mystery that it's almost satisfying in itself.
Good point. More mundanely, many writers do something similar when characterizing high-end geniuses, like seeing them through the eyes of more ordinary (but still often smart) characters. That way they don't have to go into detail about the inner workings of those people, which is indeed very hard if you're not a high-end genius yourself.
Lol Gandalf was played so well in the movies that 95% of his art is drawn as Ian McKellen.
Yep, and to be honest. I couldn't see Gandalf any other way
I can't even imagine Gandalf without Sir Ian McKellen.🤷😂
Ian McKellen was PERFECT as Gandalf. Exactly as I imagined him when reading the books in the 80s.
Both Gandalf and Saruman, in my opinion
There is ONLY Gandalf McKellen. Any other iteration of Gandalf is heresy.
3:54 man I am awed by how respectfully Grima killed Saruman. Brings tears to my eyes.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that caught that.
Two old friends having one last cordial moment together, in love and goodness.
lol
I REALLY like your Readin Voice, your impression of Gandalf at Orthanc is awesome
I think that Valar should forbid Aulë from having servants. The guy is such a poor judge of character that he almost caused the end of Middle Earth.
Or, on the other hand, he brought about what was supposed to happen....
😂😂
Oy oy oy, easy, Aulë gave us the Dwarves hahaha
And he try to become like Eru himself by creating lifeless golem that eventually become the dwarves.
Dwarves totally gets him ungrounded.
I love how Gandolf is written. Clearly he’s powerful, but they don’t go into such extreme detail that you literally know exactly how powerful he is.
I imagine that Sauron might have taken a while to realize what the Wizards were, but after the did he probably wondered who they were specifically. When he got ahold of Saruman I imagine he was like "Ah Curumo! It's been a while. You work for me now". He never bothered with Radagast so much, but when Gandalf battled him with his mind, I wonder if he was "OLORIN? REALLY? You dare to face me student of Nienna?" and 10 seconds later he figured out that it was precisely Olorin who had been thwarting his plans all along.
Yeah i think the same thing, but probably all of them dont really remember it,,, i think so
But yeah
Gandalf's later words about not wanting to yet revealing himself to Sauron directly (by using the Palantír) imply that Sauron wasn't aware that it was Gandalf in particular who "battled" him. This is in accordance with what Galadriel tells Frodo: She can perceive (at least partially) Sauron's intentions, while her own thoughts are hidden from him - all while they are constantly fighting in their minds.
The video on Wizards arrived exactly when it needed to. 🧙
*Precisely.* 🧙♂️
Love your videos man! I used to watch the movies with my grandma before she passed, she loves tolkiens world & watching these videos almost makes me feel closer to her!
I do wish there had been more of a showing of a "good" Saruman, to make his eventual fall actually feel more tragic, but then sources tell us he was bitter, and angry, practically from the beginning, when Cirdan gave Gandalf his ring, and Galadriel sought to give Gandalf leadership of the White Council. He might've been bad even in the east, before we knew anything of his actions, and we don't really get scenes odmf his decency, even if marred by pride. It almost makes me wonder if Aule and Yavanna were actually a happy couple? He created Dwarves, and Yavanna, panicking for what these beings might do with axes, to stoke fires of hearth and forge, asked for Eru to create the Ents to protect her forests. Ayle chose Saruman, and even as he was then, Yavanna feared, and begged they take her Radagast with them. Granted, the Smith had a poor track record; he taught Sauron, and Sauron fell. He taught Feanor (alleged), and Feanor created the Silmarils, which then caused several conflicts, and he refused to part with to literally change the world. His knowledge went to Celebimbor, through Sauron, and we get the Rings of Power, which cause more conflicts. Had he not also made chains to bijd Morgoth, I might question everything he had a hand in, though I know he, at least, is not malevolent. I wonder why such a skilled craftsman couldn't see the obvious flaws in his tool (Saruman), while even his own loving wife seemed concerned every time he made another new thing.
@@marshallhaskell4040aulë confirmed as autistic
They say opposites attract… idk about that but maybe that was the idea. Maybe his wife is what prevented him from going down a Morgath type path. I mean Alue wanted to create and Melkor wanted to destroy and taint. But maybe Alue could’ve been his own competing evil tyrant if he didn’t have his wife. I wonder what type of power Alue, Sauron, Saruman, the Noldor (or at least Feanor and his side of the Noldor) and the dwarves could’ve accomplished. Like Alue wasn’t as strong as Melkor in the beginning but he could have made his own one ring and possibly stored the power of Saruman and Sauron and some of his own into it to amplify his own power which would be pretty crazy. Idk. That would be an interesting alternative universe. Alue kills Melkor and basically takes the path of sauron but with his disciples.
@@forfun6273 if aule took saurons spot the istari wouldnt exist and it would be a second valar invasion of middle earth, so all in all id be down to read it haha
We are told explicitly in the first two chapters of the Silmarilion, that all the Ainur (no distinction other than "power level" actually sets Valar apart from Maiar) can clothe themselves in forms of their choosing. More importantly to this discussion, they can walk Arda UNCLAD. In this form, even the mightiest of the Noldor can't detect their presence. I think it's likely that Tolkien considered this in creating Radagast, and Iwendil was a master at moving about while remaining almost impossible to detect. Most people infer that Saruman killed Radagast, or had him killed, but I can't find a passage that is even close to definitive on that subject. I think it possible that Radagast decided to do his best to protect his favourite ecosystems and members of them, and he just pieced out and tended to Mirkwood and or Fangorn. He may be visiting Bombadil, they'd probably find it easy to get along, but as fun an image as it is, there isn't a hint of suggestion that he is off with Tom and Goldberry. However, the familiarity that Gandalf, Elrond, and (I think) Glorfindel speak of Bombadil with suggests that Radagast is very likely to know and be known by old Tom.
I think that's what JRR meant by "hue." In one sense (I think) it means appearance as opposed to physical form but I think it also refers to "appearance" (or lack thereof) in the unseen world. Having seen the light of the Trees is what allows the Noldor to perceive the unseen world, but the Einor are native to it and have power over its substance as well as over the material.
I'm a new subscriber, and have spent the last couple of weeks catching up on your previous videos. While I've been reading LOTR for most of my life, you've kinda opened new points of view for me. So thanks for that!
Would also recommend In Deep Geek, he has great content on lotr as well as other fantasy stories, he has a beautiful and soothing voice even more so than NoTR
@@Grancigul I have listened to a couple of his uploads and he seems enjoyable. But dang it, I already spend hours on UA-cam, lol.
Saruman, Gandalf and Radagast all have amazing actors portraying them.
[i do hope that the two blue wizards will eventually get great theatrical performers one day]
They fight right in Rings of Power >.
I imagine Patrick Stewart and Mark Hamill as the Blue Wizards.
I was pretty disappointed with Radagasts depiction in the movies.
@@bobo577 I agree. One stern focused, The other loud yet quiet in his steps unless the other wakes. I could certainly see this cast, Hamill being the loud voice yet not the actor.. not until when his force is used to showcase the powers of the light and through it, Sauron noticing his lack in providing an foresight of it till that point. And by the time he can infiltrate to find the blue wizards again but to only find empty air.
@@bobo577 Unsure about Mark Hamill being a great actor. Love the guy tho
Wow 13:00-14:50 in this context about the power of the wizards you can really get a feel for the gravity of that moment and appreciate the skill of Tolkien’s writing. Very very cool. Thank you for producing it 👌🏼
As always, these videos are great not just because of the information Nerd of The Rings gives us, but the art that is used to help convey the Information .
Thank you so much for your Tolkien knowledge… but, I also really appreciate how you share so many amazing artists that appreciate JRR’s world❤
In Gnomish, one of Tolkien's early conceptions of an Elven language, the word for "wizard" is curug (and "witch" is curus). An alternative word is thothweg, also translated as "wizard".
In The Hobbit, while no mention is made of an Order of Wizards, Gandalf tells Beorn that Radagast is his "cousin". In the Unfinished Tales it is said that the wizards appeared in Middle-earth about 1000, but in The Peoples of Middle-earth a rough note by J.R.R. Tolkien said that the Blue Wizards (Alatar and Pallando, or Morinehtar and Rómestámo) came much earlier in the Second Age. Christopher Tolkien stated that much of the writings about the Istari are rapid jottings and often illegible.
11:52 Saruman was also skilled in Pondering his Orb
We all endeavor to be capable of such feats of orb ponderance.
i absolutely love that this video have 400k+ views in 9 days. fantastic content and a ton of fellow Tolkien fans out there! keep up the great work.
Beautiful video. Movies and series come and go, but Tolkien is forever.
A note on telepathy; it's strongly implied that Elrond and Galadriel also have this ability. There are at least two passages I can remember directly referencing this ability. Each has their own talents in this regard, but there is a common thread in their abilities which ties to an interesting coincidence.
It is interesting to note that the only references (as far as I recall) of such extensive telepathic abilities are only in regard to Elrond, Galadriel and Gandalf, the bearers of The Three. It does stand to reason that, given the nature of the Ring of Power, this is an ability the three rings focus and amplify in these three individuals as opposed to them simply possessing telepathy at this level of proficiency. I personally believe this to be the case.
Of course, there are a couple of potential issues with this. One specific mentioned instance comes after the One Ring is destroyed. However, it is mentioned that The Three more faded than lost their power all at once. Plus, when the trio are engaging in their "mind speech" at this point, they are all in close proximity. The other potential issue is with Olorin being mentioned as inspiring the dreams and thoughts of the elves in the early days. While this is a form of telepathy, it's not as refined or focused as what is mentioned the trio possessing. So it is possible that there is some innate ability among them that the rings are able to amplify and focus.
Near the end of ROTK the three elven ring bearers were said to glow and it was implied that they were talking without speaking.
Just here to share that this is the best chanel i've come across last few years. Much love from portugal you got some fans here!
I’m glad you describe hunger as a human emotion. My wife complains that I won’t tell her what I’m feeling. I tell her that I feel hungry all the time.
❤❤❤
I can watch it 3-5 times a year, all your videos. Your content here is precious Nerd. Blessings to you❤❤❤
This video is incredible. Well done, the narration, the art, the music. Every nerd's dream. (wipes tear)
That Was such an Amazing Video Matt! I Really enjoyed that! Good to have all the Lore put In a way to Follow it so well and enjoy learning about it! Thanks so much!
Tolkien is more well known for his linguistics rather than his diction, and many readers find his writing dry. Then you read this. "Saruman, your staff is broken.". That, to me, demonstrates the ability for straightforward prose to inspire and evoke fantasy. In a single line, Tolkien indelibly demarcated the wizard archetype: learned ones in tall towers possessed of secret knowledge, with staves to show both their office and their strength, who speak words of power. How absolutely magnificent of an ending for one of the top chapters of the whole six books.
It is quite curious that for all modern high fantasy and D&D owe to Tolkien and his work, his style of magic is so very different from what we are used to now. Specially with D&D we see magic as a science of sorts, a thing to study, to classify, spells to be researched and then applied through formulas, artifacts developed with the precision of machines, schools of magic not unlike our colleges. And yet Tolkien would have none of that and might have even found the idea of it rather comical or even senseless… his magic is a thing of wonder and mystery, a thing of mind and soul. It would seem that for the Istari and the Eldar, the work of their arts and lore (which they emphatically do not refer to as magic), is as an act of the will upon the world, to manifest the ethereal into the physical through a mastery of the spirit, and knowledge of the world seen and unseen, well beyond the understanding of the younger races (readers included). That is why there can be no hard and clear rules, mechanisms and limitations, for such are the ways of the material plane, while their powers exist in another, and to try to understand it in terms more familiar to us is folly, instead one ought to just marvel at it and bask in the beauty of Tolkien’s work, a magic of its own.
Well, magic has always been a thing of wonder and mystery, that is what fascinates us about it and that is the version that magic always have had in traditional folklore. Originally in the old religions in which the idea of it originated it was the power of the gods which mortals could summon and bend to their will. That is exactly what is in Tolkiens world as well. Even the latter thing of common humans wielding exists in Middle-Earth as well. The Istari are just the most powerful ones.
Hard magic system v soft magic, yo
Tolkien states that men used spells and enchaments to create their fortresses and weapons, many of which we see in Lord of the Rings, it seems the setting used to have magic as a study of men but it has fallen, expect for the evil sorcerers of Sauron
Having not read the book before watching the film, Gandalf's conversation with Bilbo in Bag End, set my imagination on fire. Having studied systems of magic, Gandalf's magic felt so wildly adept. Such masterful character building by Tolkien.
I would really like to see you do one of these on Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth. He was always one of my favorite minor characters of the story and I've always felt Jackson's decision to omit him and his Swan Knights from ROTK was a mistake.
While I do love the hard rules of magics that other fantasy worlds have. I also really love how magic is in Tolkien's world. It is very flexible and feels like a projection of one's emotional state combined with their intent to an extent. Least that's just my casual reader perspective.
I think you are absolutely right. The more powerful beings just perceive and alter the world around them, like lesser beings craft objects out of stone or wood. The Valar control and oversee the entire worlds or aspects of it (like Ulmo who's influence is in all the waters of Arda), while beings like elves and Dúnedain have enhanced abilities and can craft "supernatural" objects.
The "softness" even goes so far that Galadriel doesn't understand what Sam means by using the word "magic". Doing what lesser mortal would call "supernatural stuff" is just part of her daily life.
New listener to your channel, this is good stuff, thanks man!
I’m sure it’s come up on this channel before, but the BBC radio drama does a great job of Gandalf and Saruman’s final interaction. You can get the audio book for the entire LOtR BBC radio drama on audible. Ian Holm plays Frodo, Bill Nighy plays Sam, Michael Horderns command presence as Gandalf is incredible.
This was an awesome round up! I love hearing about the Istari collectively. I’m definitely one of those for whom they’re some of Tolkien’s most interesting characters; Gandalf has to be my all time favorite of Tolkien’s figures!! He was always (and is) my goal for what I wanna be as a grandad 😝
This is the greatest channel on UA-cam
This channel deserves passage to the undying lands. 👑✨
Ive always been hesitant in watching videos on Tolkien's work. I feel like these kinds of videos are usually opinion based and people tend to interpret his work in all manners of ways. You have changed my mind. Your voice work, the dedication to detail, while actually pulling from the source material, and your disarming tone make these videos easy to digest. Subbed! Time to binge.
It's always a good day when there's a new Nerd of the Rings video!
Gandalf being able to read Frodo's "mind and memory" clearly means he simply listened to sleep-talking and put the pieces together, no magic needed.
Or the others told him about the journey?!?
@@Lodrik18 Not for Frodo's personal experiences
I believe he actually did read Frodo's "mind and memory".
Learning from this channel that Saruman's greatest power was his voice it just tickles my heart that Christopher Lee (RIP) got to play him. That man could read a Wendy's receipt and send chills down your spine. I had read that he would've much preferred to play Gandalf, but he wasn't physically capable of meeting the physical demands for the role due to his age, but I think they could never have found a better person to play Saruman and I can only imagine how much he contributed on set being such a fan of Tolkien, most notably the stabbing scene that I'm sure everyone watching this video knows about.
Excellent. I need to review and think about this more deeply.
I remember commenting on one of your vids about this, and you certainly didn't disappoint! Glad to see your work!
My favorites will always be Gandalf and Radagast. One protects the weak, the other one shows the weak their inner strength. I also like the Blue wizards and their quest to help those who had fallen rise again. And Saruman.... the less said the best.
Looking for some late night content while traveling in Asia, and ofc my guy got the content ready for me!!! Perfect timing man - got the notification and watched it the first minute it came out 👍
Amongst the Easterlings*
You left out one of Gandalf's powers, although it may be more attributable to his ring. The power to give courage and heal the spirit. He not only does this with Theoden, but in Gondor during the siege. As Gandalf passes among the men of Gondor, he is able to counter (at least briefly) the effects of Sauron's cloud of blackness.
I am new to the channel, dunno what you do but I can say you are an amazing story teller, and all quotes you read from the books are so well told that gives me goosebumps. very gj
I think another ability (that wasn't mentioned I think) that can be safely counted among Gandalf's powers is the ability to inspire hope and courage. Of course that's not necessarily a supernatural ability, but those things are hard to nail down in the diffuse and ambiguous magic of middle earth.
Also I really love that you didn't try and force hard rules on Tolkien's magic, I can't stand it when people try to apply some hard framework to a soft magic system.
I have not heard the names of the blue wizards Alatar and Pallando since I was a teenager (c35 yrs ago) but I have continually used these two names when describing what the two missing Istari were to friends etc. They would give me that 'wtf are you talking about fool', look and I had started to think this was just something I had read in the many Rolemaster/MERP game modules I played with friends and that it was not original lore but something dreamt up to flesh out the world by ICE (Iron Crown Enterprises wrote/published the rolemaster game modules). Delighted to hear the full detail after so many years - all that is forgotten is not lost.
Your videos are an absolute treasure! Thank you for creating this high quality, easy to follow content.
This has quickly become my favorite YT channel
Saraman must have possessed the ability to shape-shift or, more than likely, cast illusions. At the edge of Fangorn Forest, Gimli sees an old bent man leaning on his staff and wrapped in a great cloak. The old man vanished when Gimli roused Legolas & Aragorn. Later, when the three meet Gandalf the White, Gimli asks if the old man was Gandalf. Gandalf denies it was him. Gandalf also tells Gimli that "Saraman could look like me in your eyes, if it suited his purpose with you."
Eomer also mentions "phantoms of Saraman" when meeting the three hunters, but this could simply be colorful speech.
Yet another wonderful vid my friend, thanks much!
Like most fans, I've always been enamoured by the Istari and am blessed enough to have all of Tolkien's literature (available) on them to peruse.
I was disappointed by the childish treatment PJ provided Radagast however, I think he provided astounding depictions of Gandalf and Saruman, courtesy of the trust instilled in the two actors that no others could have bested in such iconic roles.
The circumstance and fate of the two "Blue Wizards" is a tantalizing thought. We of course hope to think that in their own way, they prevented Sauron from converting many more of the East to his cause. Whether or not it cost them their 'human' lives, we'll never know but I personally trust they stayed allied to the cause of the just and righteous. :)
I've always wondered were they simply forbidden to use the full powers of the Maiar, or were their powers actually reduced and unavailable to them even if they wanted to use them? And in the same vein, was Gandalf the White simply allowed to use more powers, or was he actually stronger?
Their powers were limited and those they had were intended to be used as part of their role in supporting and encouraging the Free Peoples to resist Sauron. But there are always exceptions, such as when Gandalf faced the balrog. It's never made entirely clear but I believe Eru Ilúvatar restored to Gandalf his full abilities as a Maia but still had him retain the form of an elderly man to remind him what his mission was.
They were limited, in part to keep them on mission (to encourage the Free Peoples, rather than to take on Sauron themselves). Gandalf sacrificed himself to mortal death to save the Quest but was sent back with his power and wisdom enhanced by Eru, in part to offset the harm done by Saruman going astray. Tolkien covers it off in Letter 156.
Their powers were limited by their bodily form and they had to use them with caution and wisdom, you can't just waste all of your mana right away. There were other Maiar, such as the Balrogs, whom you could ask the same question about. After all, Sauron's powers were also limited, otherwise he would not need an army of orcs and trolls. In addition, staying in secrecy was important to fulfill their mission so they couldn't just leave too many clues to the enemy.
They were forbidden to use their powers so they wouldn't become a new Sauron. They were there to undermine Saurons ambitions, not to take his place.
@@popularmisconception1 i dont know man, i think maiar powers weregreat, but not as great to hold dominion over the whole continent without an army, not even the greatest of the valar was able to hold dominion over a continent without the greatest army of orcs and dragons and werewolves ever known, and even there, he had to resort to underganded techniques to win, besides, there is also melian, her powers were not veiled, and even if she had great power, she was not really strong enough to protect little more than a single country
The voice of Saruman was one of my favorite chapters in LOTR, you can see how gifted saruman is in speech but uses it to manipulate, its good Gandalf was there to rebuke him
Could you do a video (or series) on Tolkien's languages?
I love the gentle ebb and flow of beings' lives and mistakes. Aule creating dwarfs to be incorruptible but also his Maiar being Sauron and Saruman. The gentle way that Radagast is sent to mind Saruman, because people are right to be wary of new things etc.
Such a phenomenal channel. Been binging your content for the last week or two. Your writing and narration are excellent, the editing flows very smoothly, and the art selection really brings it all to life. I read The Hobbit and LOTR when I was young, but never got into Tolkien's other works, and learning all this expository information, it's just really cool. Makes me wanna read The Silmarillion, which I almost tried years ago. Thanks for all your work.
Don’t forget their ability to imbibe truly epic quantities of pipeweed.
3:57 - respectively, not respectfully
You were so thoughtful and careful in your development of this. Thank you!
Really do enjoy your channel watch every morning before work n before bed ,big shout to you from Scotland
"I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass.
The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow!"
Brilliant video. We always appreciate your hard work and dedication towards these videos. So we love your channel and your videos.
Adding to the list:
- Lightning spells. In The Hobbit Gandalf is awakened from his sleep by Bilbo and a flash of light and a loud bang later several of them drop dead. Perhaps more lightning magic like he uses against the Nazgul and Balrog? Those battles are described as flashes of lightning and the hobbits find burn marks at the battle side (Weathertop) later.
- Fortitude and stamina. Gandalfs battle with the Balrog lasted several days and nights. That includes non-stop fighting and climbing the mountaintop all the way from the lake they fell in (from a great height which would kill a normal person).
- Some kind of magic armor? Gandalf never wears armor despite being on several war battlefields. In the Hobbit an arrow gets stuck in his hat, yet he never feels the need to protect his body from stray arrows and is never hit.
- Different disarming spells. In addition to Denethor, when Gimli, Aragorn and Legolas mistakenly attack Gandalf in Fangorn, Gimli's axe becomes too heavy, Aragorns sword becomes to hot and Legolas arrow misses and bursts into flame.
- Superhuman reflexes. Continuing on the above point, Legolas is capable of drawing his arrow faster than Eomer can blink. Yet Gandalf can protect himself against Legolas.
- Whatever that light thing was he did against the Nazgul to rescue Faramir.
- Presumabily all Maiar know Counterspell as was done by Durin's Bane.
People often talk about how Gandalf uses little magic. However he seems fairly consistent in choice of magic use to me: lightning spells against supernatural enemies (or if startled) and using his will to empower others during war (which we see Saruman and Sauron do as well). Other spells he uses mostly as utility when the needs arrises. PJ cut back on his use of magic which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing (though the magic duel between Gandalf and Saruman definately was).
The "light thing" can be deemed as a form of Holy Light, which should be flashbang blinding if not beyond-third degrees burning to dark forces.
Built different - Tolkien's explanation for everything
After watching the TV series, it made me want to watch both the cinematic trilogies. From The Hobbit : An unexpected Journey all the way to Lord of the rings : The Return of the King. And tbh at the end of it all I found myself wanting more and not satisfied enough. It just couldn't end there, so I'm glad to say I have decided to engulf myself in the world of Tolkien. And have purchased the Four book set on Amazon. 😁 Can't wait for the 31st of OCTOBER 🎉. Also want to thank channels like this, for making the decision that much easier and exciting.
If there's one positive the loyal fans of Tolkien can take away from this Amazon series, it's that it is convincing people like me to read and enjoy the books. To further advance our knowledge of the world of Tolkien.
This is a great video for giving feats to the Istari in Verses Debates
Another time Gandalf uses his fire magic is in The Hobbit when they are stuck in the trees. He lights pinecones in different colors and throws them on the wargs. I wish they did the different colors in the movie, and I also wonder if each color means anything.
He probably just wanted to show off.
@@valentinkambushev4968 "Let me test this cool new trick I've learned"
@@valentinkambushev4968 reminds me of when in Two Towers film he blasted Legolas' arrow, scorched Aragorn's sword, and just flashed the trio with blinding white light for 20 seconds seemingly just to show off his new Maia powers lol
The perfect addition to a pleasant Saturday. Thanks for this!
Gandalf's most POWERFUL and ELOQUENT oration that inspired the hearts of the people of Middle Earth:
"I AM GOOD!"
😅🤙🏼
08:00 I just re-read the trilogy after about a 15 year break. Reminded me that as good as the movies were, they books were still so much better. Gandalfs depiction is one example, he describes himself as more powerful than any being unless he was in front of Sauron himself, fought off 5 of the Nazgul single handedly, and fearlessly faced down the Witch King (opposed to the movie!). Really embodies what you described as hiding power in order to guide people vs taking control through force.
I recently re-watched the cartoon Lord of the Rings classic and thought it would be fun to see how the War of the Ring played out if the role of Gandalf was swapped with a travelling blue wizard who heard news of one of their kind becoming corrupt (Saruman). Or how Saruman of Many Colours would appear in the live-action movies, haha!
The background music was so good.
3:56 respectfully -> respectively - I wouldn’t say grima’s killing of Saruman was very respectful
Well, it beats the "burn the witch" mantras.
I’m so glad you cleared this up bc I was doing my googles and couldn’t understand during that episode when these people were brought up! 😅
Did you ever cover the second Ring forged by Celebrimbor in the Shadow of War game? Not canon obviously, but would be interesting to see the implications of that second ring existing.
A great example of taking Tolkiens work, making it non-canon yet still an enjoyable creation. Who'da thunk?!
He has nothing to cover because the game is fictionally incorrect for what ring of power is. Sauron by the story is Lich. His ring of power takes a part of his soul and puts into a ring. Lich in fiction are humans that learn magical power and become corrupted by the power that ascend them into higher-level being. After they die, They become undead. Undead Lich are able to take their higher-level magical power and craft items that represent their soul. These items are often cursed. They contain a positive in increasing D&D combat stats but lower luck stat. This is why when Isildur when carrying the ring dies through unnatural causes because humans usually have +0 luck statistic, but when you wield the ring of power, your luck stat becomes negative. So for example, isildur when carrying the ring had +5 strength, +5 agility, +5 knowledge, +5 intelligence but he had -5 luck. -5 luck means that the character will have misfortunes in their life that will cause them to die in their life time. In D&D fictions, Undead units cannot gain luck or lose luck because they're not living. They cannot have misfortune in their life because they are already dead. In the case of Tolkien story, Undead units can have luck but because Sauron & Nazgul/Witch king are spirits, Dying to misfortune has no meaning because they are eternal spirits that cannot truly die.
In shadow of war, The ring of power are interpreted as mind-control devices which is incorrect to the story and they have the power to grant immortality which is also incorrect. Mind-controlling is type of soft-magic that Saruman showcases. Ishtar can learn this type of soft magic to mind-control beings. A ring of power not grant this ability. The ring of power just boost stats at drawback of lowering other stats. They also do not grant immortality. Instead, they can corrupt the souls of men and turn men into restless spirits(Undead) that are unable to return in the halls of Mandos. Halls of Mandos in Tolkien work is something like Hades for underworld. This is likely an ability that a magical ability that Sauron learned from Morgoth at some point in the story. Morgoth cannot create life but as Maia, He learned to twist life and past this knowledge to Sauron. This high-level dark art is likely something that Sauron cannot perform in thin air, but Sauron being a Lich means that he can craft an items(Rings) then perform dark magic to manipulate the souls of living beings. In theory, he should be able to manipulate all living beings including Elves and Dwarfs but it takes time for his magic to work. The men have weak souls so it is much easier to corrupt the hearts of men and manipulate their spirit as opposed to the other races. Overall, the game has large misinterpretation for how the rings work.
That New Ring thing is VERY non canon and also diminishes the importance of the One Ring. Hell, even the game itself ignores it for most of its runtime as well so you don’t become overpowered. I seriously doubt NoTR would dedicate a video to it.
I love how token loved using Phoenician Lore in his books. To be honest I named my daughter Astrid from these wizards.
12:05 Man, imagine how powerful of a ring Saruman could have made if he had Saurons knowledge, or aid. Though obviously if Sauron had a hand in it, it would not be as powerful and would likely not be for Saruman's full benefit
I would have liked to have known what the ring Saruman did craft was capable of.
@@istari0 same here, I've wondered about that a bunch. Like maybe it could sense the power of other magical objects, to help him find the One Ring; because he was secretly searching for that for a long time
I think the main difference is the other rings. The One Ring was created to dominate the others and so make their power part of its own. Also, like his master, Sauron poured the majority of his own power into the ring, thus focusing and increasing it in some ways and limiting it in others. It doesn't seem like Saruman made quite as heavy an investment, but that's just a hunch.
* clarification: Morgoth did not forge a piece of jewelry. His "ring" is Arda, and the fact that he put the bulk of his power into it is both why he becomes weak enough to defeat when he starts out strong enough to face all of the Valar together and why he isn't completely gone even after his spirit is cast out Ea.
@@chriscuda8686 Saruman's power at Isengard and his military might was described, when compared to the Barad-dur, as being "like a child imitating his father's work". I imagine his Ring was probably on that level, when compared to the One Ring; a imitation of it's power.
Of all the things people wrote and asked Tolkien about, I wish someone had asked about Saruman's ring, but he likely would have left most of it to our imaginations
I know soft-magic systems don't fully define abilities, but if we had to I'd say the Istari abilities are:
1. Command: (ability to speak statements that immediately materialize as facts "your staff is broken")
2. Telekinesis: (move objects with their minds (Saruman swinging Gandalf around))
3. Telepathy: (Gandalf speaking to Frodo) (swerves into mind-control with Saruman, perhaps in conjunction with Command.)
4. Transformation: (Radagast, but Valar and Maiar generally have this ability)
5. Nature Control: (ability to break/manipulate rocks, expand fire, make lights, wind/storms, control animals) (I'd place Saruman's snow avalanche here + Command speech)
6. Protective Barriers: (the spell in Moria, but also Gandalf's shield when battling Durin's Bane)
7. Premonitions: (having a connection to the future, knowing what will happen, at least in a vague sense.) (a bit like Galadriel but not as powerful)
---
I think these 7 powers covers most things? What did I miss?
After reading all this, about how the Istari were confused at first and so on, the Rings of Power adaptation now feels faithfull and actually makes a lot more sense!
1:25 the one second from the back's staff is clearly Wabbajack. Apparently Sheogorath was posing as a Maia
Wabbajack Wabbajack Wabbajack Wabbajack Wabbajack Wabbajack
It's worth noting that Gandalf chose to appear as an old man of the shores of middle earth. In Valinor he was younger with beautiful long silver hair.
In the DnD campaign my friend set up for us, the 2 blue wizards turned.... Became the black, and the red... Built a massive army, swept across Rohan, and captured Minas Tirith... Their goal with the power they had built up.... To open the Doors of Night, releasing Morgoth upon Middle Earth...
It was an amazing campaign, and I'm almost sad we were successful, cuz seeing the results of Morgoth being unleashed sounds pretty insane...
Can we get a video for Radagast? It seems he's quite an interesting character.
Pretty sure one already exists
Also Men of the West has a video on him I reccomend that one
Already is one
Not me just searching on youtube "what are the power of the Istari?" Knowing you didn't have a video on it, only to have this video to pop up, thanks as always
Anyone else still hoping the stranger is one of the blue wizards?
I'm going to be disappointed if he is Gandalf. I wanted to see a Wizard we haven't seen before and it would make much more sense if he is one of the Blue Wizards Tolkien lore wise.
I actually don't think it will be Gandalf. I mean sure the hints were strongly suggesting it will be Gandalf,but with their journey leading them to Rhûn in the next season, I hope those hints were just hints that he is one of Gandalfs type, not Gandalf himself✌️
It's pretty much the one and only canonical answer to this plot-device disguised as a riddle. He arrives during the 2nd age and he travels to the East. Gandalf arrived in the 3rd age and explicitly states that he never traveled to the east, whereas the blue wizards were said to have gone there.
Im just glad He started acting more wizard like and realizing he's good!
Saruman went east to, but im not sure when he arrived in middle earth.
One thing i love about these videos is the gorgeous artwork. I'd love to have it hanging on my walls.
Aren’t there seven Istari? I read online about two that went south to Harad, Durestel the Black and Carastor the Red. Is this canon?
No, that is from fan fiction. The five mentioned in the video are it.
Dang that was so good dude. Thanks for making and sharing.
What I'm curious about is this: do the colors of the wizards have an meaning for their powers/strength. To me it seams that Saruman though becoming "many colored" would enhance his power but backfired and Gandalf becoming " the white" did increase his powers imensly. Along with his line "I am Saurman, rather Saruman as he should have been, to me implies the names they took as Istari were tied to their power as much as their identity and he had the company refer to him as Gandalf for their comprehension not because he was still Gandalf, if that makes sense.
Strength no but dominion perhaps yes. Each istari presided over a specific station such as Saruman the white:just rulership, gandalf the grey: wisdom/knowledge, Radaghast the brown: nature, and Pallando the blue: magic. Those colors kinda correlate their function rather than their actual strength.
Banger as usual!
I remember from reading the books that there're no formalized spells cast by the istari. When gandalf lights the pinecones on fire to throw at the wargs, he does cry out in Sindarin (edit) but translated is 'Fire be for saving us'. The movie depicts gandalf perform some kind of healing similarly on Frodo. In Tolkien's system, magic is more like exertions of will or prayer.
there are a lot of ancient enchanted items, obviously the rings, but also the swords of the wights, sting, and many fortresses that are enchanted in some vague way, it seems like formal magic did exist but it has since been lost
There was some exquisite artwork in this video.